Speaker 1: Don't be nervous.
Speaker 2: Top Lobster Productions. Another episode of Straight Bible The Interview Sessions.
We got a really special interview today. He couldn't be
here in person. He could a couple of weeks ago,
but I was a little tied up with Bella's graduation
and some other stuff and the boys were busy. The
story goes on and on, but we really wanted to
get the guy in to talk about his book, The
epica Esau. You guys know who I'm talking about, Doc
Brown aka Prometheus Lens. We're happy to have him in
here today, even though we couldn't do it in studio,
but we want to really deep dive on Doc, his
life and his book. So thanks for coming in. Doc.
Speaker 3: Hey, man, I appreciate you having me. Yeah, that was
actually funny. I hate that I missed you because I
brought you some goodies too, that I brought you that
book and some stickers and stuff. But the guys called
you up and we had a little live Collie in there. Man,
I hate I missed you.
Speaker 2: Well, they're like that. They're kind of like the Big
Brother podcast, right, Nefflin de Squad is the Big Brother podcast.
The Straight Bible so they're kind of like, our friends
aren't your friends. You can't show up when we got
people here.
Speaker 1: So it's actually written on the rules right there if
you read them, Matt.
Speaker 2: But they're there. Those are good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you texted me that and you said, yeah, they
told me, Yeah, our friends are not your friends, Matt. Yeah,
I'm your friend, Matt.
Speaker 2: I like that. They're very clear. No, I appreciate it.
And as soon as I got the book, I got
right into it. And then that's why I was like, bro,
we got to talk. Man. I like some of these
concepts in here that you unpacked with, like Adam and
Eve as opposed to the humans created and Genesis one
that's an intriguing topic. The canaanable story, the potential for
like an actual human sacrifice is an intriguing topic. Lamec
who kills them in seven generations later as an intriguing topic.
So I wanted to get into all of it. But
can you just give everybody maybe like a little bit
of a story about who you are and like what
your background is and maybe when you got into the
Bible and even if you like grew up in church
because you're from Tennessee's a lot of people are probably
like church goers in Tennessee, like maybe when it became
real and just kind of tell your story a little bit.
Speaker 3: Yeah, man, Uh yeah, I'm just a nine to five
knuckle dragger for the majority of my life. But yeah,
I grew up in the hills of East Tennessee. My
whole life grew up in church, and uh, but it
was kind of like you know, missionary Southern Baptists. So
it was all the little bit we talked about Genesis six.
It was the good line of Seth breeding with the
the Houchi Mama line of Cain and made spiritually wicked
you know people, Uh that sort of thing. Esau. He
was just like your Harry back to uncle that goes
to the pool parties, you know, that sort of thing.
But like anybody, I mean, I had my rebellious stage
and stuff like that and kind of got out of church.
Once I got sixteen and got the keys to the
car and got some freedom. I went a little wild,
you know, but ended up coming back. It was probably
around I don't know, twenty twelve. I had bumped into
this guy named Trey Smith from God in a Nutshell.
He was talking about you know, angels breeding with women
and making neffholom giants, you know, and just all this
kind of woo woo crazy stuff that was supposedly in
our Bible. And I'm like, man, this dude's a liar.
He's just making up stuff for clicks. So I was like,
I know my Bible. Well, I always loved the Bible.
I was actually that annoying kid that loved history and
loved the Bible. Asked him mutan questions, probably got on
the teacher's nerves. So I was like, nah, I must
prove this dude wrong. And it actually got me looking
through the Bible again, and yeah, man, he opened my
eyes to a whole new world. And was never the
guy that liked to read. I didn't read anything that
I wasn't made to read. I was at C plus
average guy and worked in a factory to support my family.
And something happened, due to just a flip of a
switch happened. I started reading, couldn't stop reading, learning all
this stuff, and realized really quickly, man, I did not
know this book as well as I thought I did,
and it was a lot more supernatural than any DC
Marvel comic book or movie. And started doing podcasts, you know,
talking on Facebook, doing little videos on Facebook. And next
thing you know, it's me and my buddy started doing
it and we donet That show was actually called the
dig Bible Podcast. That's kind of where I got my
reps in.
Speaker 2: When did you start that?
Speaker 3: That was two thousand and twenty one or twenty two.
Speaker 2: Twenty twelve, is when you came across the dude that
it's funny how like you're explaining is like a lot
of people who have a good effect on our life,
initially they offend us, right, like you're seeing like first
started saying that You're like, bro, no, you're you're You're
definitely wrong. But then it forced you to dig into
it and then you say, oh man, actually this guy's right.
So nine years and then you just keep going hard
after God, you're really serious about it, and then and
then you start the podcast.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And that's the thing is like I started doing
that and I don't know, God just kind of talked
to me one day and like I said, all that
happened and within that nine year span, I started going
back to church, started getting more serious about it. But
then then God was just kind of like, you know, hey,
you're stalking all this cool, interesting stuff up, but to
what end? You know, how are you using it to
edify me or grow the kingdom? You know? How are
you giving back with this information? And so yeah, we
started the dig Bible podcast and found out real quick man,
that I was a hell of a lot more into
it than my buddies were. So I ended up starting
another channel called the Prometheus Lens. I've been doing that
show two years now. Uh. And then I wrote my
first book, and all praise to God. Man, at the
first year, I got all my finances in order and
paid off a lot of debt and got to where
I could sacrifice some money for my passion. So first
of the year, I've been doing this full time. Man,
I'm blessed and highly favored.
Speaker 2: So what's the idea behind the name of Prometheus Lens.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's something I catch a lot of shit for,
even to this day.
Speaker 2: I don't even know. So I don't know. I wouldn't
be just step on a very sensitive subject.
Speaker 3: Is Oh yeah, they boys know they've heard me cry
about it. They break out the violin and the cheese here.
But no, I've always been guilty of being a little esoteric,
you know, uh, and looking too deep into things sometimes.
But Prometheus, he was a Greek Titan from mythology, and
he was part of the first gods, and then the
children rose up and over threw the parent gods. Prometheus
chose to side with the young ones. And the way
his story goes is he steals fire from Zeus and
gives it to humanity. So a lot of people view
him as like a Satan character. You know, he is
the divine rebel that took something and gave it to humanity,
like the fallen angels did at Genesis six, according to
the Book of Enoch. But then on the other side
of it, I mean, what I love about him is
like it's on how you look at him. So one
side of the fence you can look at him that way,
but on the other side of the fence you can
look at him as almost a christ figure. He's the
benefactor of man and for what he does for mankind
ultimately causes him to be crucified. He's, you know, chained
to the Caucasus mountains to be tortured for the rest
of his life for his deeds for humanity. But so
I told people, I'm like well, man, to me, the
Bible you know, tells us or Jesus actually says, my
people suffer from lack of knowledge, and a lot of
us are ignorant, and we just sit back and listen
to our sermon and go home. We're not good for ends.
We don't double check to see if it's true and
that sort of thing. So it's like, man, I want
to steal the fire, which is symbolic for the knowledge,
and give it to the kingdom for the use of
the kingdom, because you know, it says that what the
devil means for harm, God uses for the good to
all who love him. So I'm like, we're gonna steal
that fire and that's symbolic for the knowledge, and I'm
going to give it to God's people to whom he
says they suffer from the lack of and try to
use it to fight fire with fire, so to speak.
So it's kind of you know, double entendre, you know,
esoteric kind of stuff behind the name. There.
Speaker 2: One thing I don't like about the chat now is
they read my mind. Dude, Like FJ. Full literally just
took the words out of my mouth, but he knew
what I was going to say, man, under the Pure,
all things are pure, and like Guardians of the Galaxy
or Avengers, like I watched these movies, like I know
this stuff is tied to the occult ultimately, but under
the pure, all things are pure, and we see these
stories like we know that the Avengers are this fighting
force on planet Earth that stands between like an enemy
from the unseen realm that will destroy humanity if the
Avengers don't step in and stop it. Which that is
a great picture of the church, a much better picture
of the Church than you get most Sunday mornings with
the building with the cross on it, right, So it's
like there is some of these things that under the pure,
all things are pure, and we can kind of take
these stories and use them. So yeah, I like that.
But you're seeing people give you a heap for it
because it's tied to the occult or to like fallen
angels and stuff.
Speaker 3: I get it. I think that's cool venerating a fallen God,
you know. But what I think is funny is I
try to be humble man, you know, because I am
I'm a nobody. But it's like if I have a
show and I'm dedicating hours of study time and producing
this show and doing all this stuff. And I am
a researcher too. It's like people get in the chat
be like, don't you realize you're venerating a fallen God?
And how dare you call yourself a Christian with a
name like that, you know, and things like that. I'm like, no,
I never looked up Prometheus. I never knew nothing about him.
I just thought it's a cool name and to name
my show. But thank you for enlightening me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, looked into it. Yeah, how want go? Did
you write the book? Because the book crushes I'm like
halfway through. I'm almost halfway through. Uh, and it's already
brought up a lot of intriguing topics, man, a lot
of really cool viewpoints that would be considered like alternative views,
Like when did you start on the book? And uh,
when did you finish it?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Well, when I started the book, I was working
full time in a factory, and so I was just
kind of having to piece it together when I could,
you know. So it took me almost two years to
finish the book, and I actually made the mistake of
going on a bunch of shows and laying out all
my research and stuff like that, you know, as I
was writing the book, so it was like this slow
build up. As a Raven was talking about on our show,
he said, I was edging for two years and then
finally got to pull the trigger. So but I started
the book. I'm trying to think. It's been out now
almost a little over a year and a half. I
released it the first of the year, year before last,
so it's had some time to breathe and now I've
started on my second one. But so yeah, it's it's
almost two years old now, working on two years. But
it took me about two years to write it too.
Speaker 2: And it reads like you like you talk and texted
it bro. It reads the same way you talk. I
love it for that.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's one of those things too. I've gotten
a lot of, you know, praise for people say that
listen to my show. They're like, man, I hear you
and I read these words. But then at the same time,
I've had some people say, uh, the grammar sucks. I
can't hardly keep up with it.
Speaker 2: And I love the country grammar.
Speaker 3: Hey let me fix my camera, guys, maybe Top can
help me with this, because he's the big tech guy
how do I turn off those stupid emojis? I do,
Oh you did it and the thumbs up yeah, and
it freezes my screen every single time.
Speaker 1: Oh I turned that on. La Marzouli has that problem too.
I don't know what kind of camera you got there,
but if I'm in Tennessee, I'll check it out for you.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, it's something to do with the software. But
it's like every time I'm on stream yard that this
is what happens.
Speaker 2: Will it fixed?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I just have to sockle the camera on and off.
Speaker 2: Go ahead, do your thing, man, And then I really
want to get into some of these topics in the book. Dude,
some of this stuff is wild.
Speaker 3: Okay, let's see.
Speaker 1: All right, Well, while he's figuring that out, what are
what is?
Speaker 2: What are you up to? Exactly? On his book? Well,
we're in the story of I don't know where to
start at. I don't want to like ruin it and
get out of order. But he's got a really intriguing
concept of like what exactly happened with canaan Abel, Like
I don't want to ruin it for him, But in
the book he's saying potentially Abel was like the first
human sacrifice bro that Caine. Okay, Doc's back, Let's let
him explain it, Doc, can we can we jump right
into like your explanation or your take or your hypothesis
on potentially what could have been what actually took place
between Canana and Abel, like we read the story to
your point, like so many stories in the Bible. We
read it like the canaan Abel story all happened one
afternoon between like three pm and five pm. You want
to go ahead and break that down the way you
explain it in the book of what potentially could have
been happening in that story.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and me, I try to give you know, credit
where it's due. And like I said, this was my
first book, so I didn't know about you know, footnotes
and that and all this other kind of stuff. But
I did put like in the back of the book
a list of books that I had read or referenced
or was in influenced by and tried to in the book.
You know why I was talking about things, you know,
so hey, I found this out from such and such
and that that was one of those. I actually had
read a book from this guy named Tim Stedman, and
I was trying to look back here at my book,
sheelf to see if I can find that it is.
It's Answers Answers to Giant Questions by t J. Steedman.
That's where I first got exposed to that idea of
the first sacrifice, and that blew my mind. And it
kind of tied into this story as I was talking about,
you know, serpent Seed and how that come about. But
TJ had basically went through some of the original languages
and the etymology of the words and kind of walked
us through that whole ordeal. And he brought up something
that I had never thought of. But we do when
we read these books, we try to read them, you know, chronologically,
and when we read what happened with canaan Able, it
seems like it all happened in one day, but you
know it didn't. These books were written, you know, thousands
of years later looking back, you know, like an ESPN
highlight reel. You know, it wasn't a play by play.
So he brought that up, and I'm like, man, that's
a good point. So it wasn't just one day they
show up and they try to offer their sacrifices and
different things like that, and this his wasn't accepted, and
he went off and killed his brother. You know, this
probably took place, you know, through many years or maybe
even decades. We don't know, but we would have to
assume that this took some time. You know, resentment to
build up, and and I talk about that in the book.
I actually even kind of add some like you know,
commentary to it, you know, like first person point of
view from Cain. And so I'm talking. I'm like, yeah,
you know, you're out in the field and bent over
and shoveling sow and seed and manure and fertilizer. You know,
it's it's hard work being a farmer man. And here
he is, you know, pouring sweat and sunburnt neck and
blistered hands from you know, holding the plow all day.
And then there's his brother on the other side of
the field. Uh, he's a shepherd. So he's just out
there sitting under a shade tree with his flock hanging out,
having a good old time, and that resentment starts building,
you know, so I kind of go through and lay
that out there is God, I hate him. He just
gets to set you know, in the shade and watch
sheep all day. Why break my back and my offerings
keep getting refused. I can't stand that guy, you know,
and kind of you know, puts you in his shoes
and showed you maybe how this kind of could have
played out. But when you get to that sacrifice though, uh,
and the etymology and the words and things like that,
it lays it out and it used sacrificial terminology. And
there's one point where it talks about, you know, when
he spills his blood. It says in Genesis that the
the mouth you know, of the ground of the earth
open its mouth and to receive the blood like it
was drinking it. And when you go back and you
look at some of the gods and the beliefs and
stuff of the people, you know, they believed in this
god called mot and he was the god of death,
and it talks about his bottom lip, you know, would
drag the ground of the earth, and his upper lip
would be up into the heavens and he would just
devour everything. He had, this you know, insessatiable appetite. He
couldn't you know, be put to bed. He was just
so hungry and so death. It's just this all devouring
type thing and made it look like, you know, he
was a sacrifice to the god of death, and he
opened his mouth and accepted it. So therefore, when you
look at all the fertility rights and things like that,
that's exactly what this looks like. You are spilling blood
onto the ground as like a fertility ritual because why
because his crops wasn't blessed, so he was turning to
a god that would bless him.
Speaker 2: And it's part of this bigger picture that you do
a really good job of bringing out that, Like Israel,
you know, we look at Israel and we go, how
did they not believe these signs and wonders coming from God,
coming from Yahweh? And your point is that, like they
were always around these false gods as well, who were
showing them false signs and wonders, and so they like
we lose sight of that if we're just reading the
story not understanding that those false gods are always in
the mix. There's always another false God that they could
be sacrificing to, There's always another false God that could
be blessing them. And it makes sense as you read
the story, like you're saying with Cana and Abel, but
also kind of all through the history of Israel, they're
constantly worshiping God plus. Like we talked about on the
show a lot, you can't worship Jesus plus Like this
isn't about like worshiping Jesus plus the saints or Jesus
plus good works or Jesus plus you know, go ahead
and name whatever you want to name. But yeah, So
it's an intriguing concept. Is that? So ultimately that like
Cain is slaving away the ground is not really producing
for him what he wants. So he ultimately decides to
turn to a false god and offer able as a
human sacrifice, hoping that it's going to in fact bless
him from this false god. And you bring up the
point that like typically when people do that does the
exact opposite. So he does, he sacrifices able to this
false god, hoping that that will bless him. Now he'll
have fertile end, and it does the exact opposite to
him at cursis him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And I also use that too because in
that same scenario, when I do talk about you know,
serpencyed or I bring that up, a lot of people
get upset because just like throughout history, a lot of
people will take true ideas and beliefs, but distort them,
you know, to get their end goal. You know, so
like the KKK, the klu klux Klan, Nazi Germany, all
these other type people had like this serpent seed kind
of narrative where there is this sub human species that
are not really humans, so therefore it's okay to you know,
exterminate them and wipe them out. But here in that instance,
if we remember, God comes down and reasons with Cain.
You know, so if he and I believe he was
a serpent seed. So if he was a serpent seed, what.
Speaker 2: Do you mean he was a seed? What can you
unpack that a little bit?
Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot of people in our space they are
in line with Genesis six. They have no problem you
know with angels coming down breeding with the daughters of
men making a hybrid race. You know, people in our
space anyway, they're okay with that. Well, I think it
happens before.
Speaker 2: Then you think Satan actually boned Eve is what you're
getting at. Yeah, okay, so you think that like Adam
bones Eve and Satan bones Eve. That's what that whole
exchange is with the three of them. And then Abel
is the son of Adam and Cain is the son Satan.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think it's an allegory for a sexual act,
and it could be you know, physical, you know. And
I say this in the book because I don't know,
but I know all the symbolism and signs and scripture
throughout support the idea. But we can say, oh, was
it physical or oh was it spiritual seed? Or was
it both? I mean, it could have been either or
But I think that the groundworks there because, like you said,
the cursings and the opposites, that's something that's a common theme.
They partake of this tree, and it says in the
English and some of the English as it says that
they ate well that that same Hebrew word throughout the
Old Testament is also translated to enjoys. So she partakes
of this tree and in joys, and then her husband
he too enjoys. So and then after this what happens
they cover their sexual reproductive organs. Right. And I had
this woman, doctor Joypugh. She's the one that kind of
exposed me to this worldview. She has this story that
I always use because I think it's the best analogy
I've ever heard. But she was like, we weren't allowed
to have cookies before supper, but we had a jar
above the refrigerator. She said, when my mother wasn't paying attention,
we would sneak and steal cookies. She said, one time
mother was out of the kitchen, we snuck up their
stole a cookie, and mother walked in and called us
eating the cookies. She said, you know what we done,
She said, we covered our mouth because she said, that's
where the sin was, that's where the transgression was. That's
what we were ashamed of and wanted to hide. She said,
So that's what happened there in the garden. They covered
what they were trying to hide and ashamed of, because
that's what they were doing. And then she said, look
at the curses. The curses always correlate to the crime.
She said. They're all about sexual reproduction. The woman would
be cursed with painful child bearing, the one would be
cursed with painful menstruations. He would put enmity between her
seed and thy seed, talking to the serpent, so the
serpent has a seed. And then the names, the etymology
of the names. Cain's name means acquired because he was acquired,
and then Abel's name, his name means breath, because like
his father, was a lifeless being until the breath of
God entered his body. And then later, you know what happens.
They're kicked out of the garden the other's enmity between
the two seeds, all right, one kills the other. And
then when Seth comes along, the etymology of his name
means the replacement. Well, who was he replacing? He was
replacing abel Adam's truson And it even says, you know,
Seth was in the similitude of his father. So yeah,
that's that whole you know, serpent seed thing. But that's
why I was saying this, just that I tell people
I think he was. But I don't think it's just
the blood that that condemns him. It's our free will actions.
Because God tries to reason with him, you know, right right,
will you not succeed? You know?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was your point. So even if him being
in that state, the serpent seed, if you will, God
still reasons with him and still tries to give him
an out, tries to help him out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So it was just the blood that, you know,
it condemned him. I think it's a major factor, you know,
because it talks about the sins of the father traveled
down to the third and fourth generations and generational curses,
that sort of thing. If your father's a drunk, you know,
you have a high likelihood of partaking in alcohol, but
you can you have the free will choice to break
that chain. And that's kind of how I see that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's interesting too the way the Book of
Hebrews breaks it down, because we were talking about it.
I think maybe you guys brought it up with that
meebry or something, and so it had come up where
we were talking about that passage to where in Hebrews
says that Abele's sacrifice was brought by faith, and it
draws the distinction between the two sacrifices that implying that
Caines wasn't brought by faith, but Ables was brought by faith.
But it's just I don't know, man, the way you
unpacked it where it was actually like a sacrifice, you know,
how it had unfolded for a long time, and that
the hope was that by sacrificing his brother this would
bless him. And then let's just keep rolling with the story,
because I feel like the more you want back at
the crazier it gets Man. Then so then a Caine
gets put on a mark, sorry, a Market's put on Caine.
And then so where does the story go from there?
Can you kind of unpack that all the way through
to lamec Yeah, and see me, like I said many times,
you know on my show, if your listeners ever listened
to my stuff, I repeat a lot of stuff because
I think it's important and I forget.
Speaker 3: Stuff, so I got to repeat it for my self too.
But you have to go outside of the biblical can
for a better cultural and historical understanding of this Bible,
because like I said earlier, it was written looking back.
You're getting the highlight reel, and Genesis six to us
was a big deal, you know. But in Genesis you
just get this little blurb, you know, and that little
blurb is all you get, and we're like, whoa, we
want some more contexts. But I think the writers were
just like, there's no sense in beating a dead horse here.
Everybody knows about Genesis six. Everybody's read the scroll of Enoch,
you know, and all the things they was thinking of
us thousands of years later.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they casually mentioned to it. Jude and Peter both
do they kind of casually make mentioned to the story,
assuming that everybody already knows what they're talking about.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and a lot of these other extra biblical books
and texts, and even some of these commentaries from some
of these ancient rabbis and stuff fill in the gaps
and some of those stories, and reading through Rabbi Rashi
and some of his I got his. He's got like
a five book series of commentaries of the Targums and
the mid Rashes and different things like that. He's the
first one that I got exposed to this idea. And
the way it goes is according to Rashie. You know,
he says that when Caine's kicked out, you know he's
given this this mark, he's afraid of people going to
kill him. And my first question was, well, who's the
afraid of?
Speaker 2: It's just them same I always wondered that too, man, like,
like what's happening in this story if all we know
is like Cain, we know Adam Eve Cain and abel
Able's gone, like who's out there? And then if it
really does push you to understand, like, Okay, the Garden
of Eden wasn't planted earth. The Garden of Eden was
the garden of Eden, but like something else. Especially if
Adam's being told to work and guard the garden, that's
his instructions. What's he guarding it from. There's clearly there's
something else out there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so when I went back to Genesis and
got to rereading that, we kind of talked about it
pre roll a little bit. But there was two creations
of mankind. And when I read that, you know, it
said that on day six, you know, the elohem said,
let us make man in our image. The plural language
there that you know, in my opinion, that's the divine council.
And then after that you get the story of Adam
and Eve being created. And I was always told, oh,
this is just the same story retold but with more detail.
But it contradicts itself, if that's the case, because in
there it says when that Adam was made, he was
made before there was any vegetation on the ground. Well,
vegetation was laid out on day three mm hmm. So
these day six people, you know, because it says male
and female, he created them, right, So this is basically
the general population. So when Adam was kicked out, he
was getting put into the general population. With those Day
six people, and it seems like that.
Speaker 2: It seems like that I could see that too. There's
other discrepancies too, I think right, because not just the
plant material, but man is the last thing created on
Day six. Animals have already been created. And Adam's story
he makes Adam. Then he brings all that animals forth
and has Adam name them. He brings the animals out
of the ground and names them, So it's an opposite order.
Whereas in chapter one there's animals, then man. With Adam,
there's atom made, and then he brings the animals. Then
after Adam goes, oh, Man, I don't know. I can't
really get down with any of this stuff. I don't
even if the goats look good. Yeah, that's not my thing, man,
And then he finally says, okay, here's woman. He goes, yeah,
now this is bone in my bone and flesh and
my flesh. There's like an opposite order. And like the
thing we were talking about pre roll was in chapter
one it says, God bless them. We'll just read it.
I'll just read it starting in Genesis one twenty six,
and God said, let us make man in our image
after our likeness and let them have dominion over the
fish of the sea, and over the faul of the air,
and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and
over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth. So
God created man in his own image, and the image
of God created he him male and female created he them.
And God blessed them. And God said unto them, be
fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth and subdue it,
and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and
over the fall of the air, and over every living
thing that moves upon the earth. And so it does
seem a little interesting, he says in verse twenty seven. Sorry,
verse twenty eight, He tells him to be fruitful and
multiply and replenish the earth. And it is intriguing. I've
heard people do a deep dive on if you want
to call it the gap theory or whatever. In the beginning,
God created the heavens and the earth, and the earth
was without form and void, and darkness was upon the
face of the deep, and the spirit of God hovered
upon the water. And so the water's already there because
he doesn't start creating until the next verse, where he says,
let there be light, and so you have water that's
already existing, and some people take that to be a flood,
that the earth was flooded. There was an angelic rebellion,
the earth was flooded in that time, and that's where
we're starting off. And that's why he would say right here, replenish,
like replenish as opposed to like start from nothing. Something
else already happened. There was a worldwide flood before that,
and that's why he gives the same instruction replenished, the
same instruction he gives the Noah when he gets off
the arc. So there's a lot. I don't know, man,
there's just so much going on in Genesis one, two,
and three that I don't think it is just as
simple as like Sunday school understanding on a lot of
this stuff.
Speaker 3: No And I think when you tie in the other comparative,
you know, mythologies and comparative you know, religious beliefs and
stuff of the world. I think that feels in the
games because a lot of the religions of the world
talk about, you know, this being the third or third
world or forth world or fifth you know, and they
talk about all these cycles that time is seclicer, and
to me that makes sense. You know, maybe our Bible
just records this, you know, last cycle and the current
one that we're in, because even all the other ones
talk about floods. You know, there's giants, you know, the
God gets angry, eliminates the giants floods of the earth.
A lot of the times, they build a tall tower afterwards,
you know. And they have all these these cycles. But
what's funny is all of them, the Native Americans, the
Meso Americans in India, all of them have these cycle
times of life and destruction, but they all end with fire,
just like our book does. So I think that's kind
of a key component there. But yeah, there's another big
thing here too.
Speaker 2: That's the first thing that jumps out, is like everything's
spoken into existence in chapter one just like man, like
he says, let us make man in our image, in
our likeness. So he created man. But then when it
gets into Adam and says he formed man of the
dust of the ground, and then verse eight says there
he put the man whom he had formed. So it
just looks like it's two different stories. It just this
is like this is anything too crazy or anybody's trying
to get heretical. It just seems if you're just a
common person with no Bible background, didn't go to cemetery school,
you're just some common man reading a Bible, you'd say, huh,
this seems like two different stories. But then when you
go to church they tell you no, no, it's all
one story. But if you're just a normal person reading it,
you'd say, this looks like two different stories.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And even how you can see the names change,
you know how the first few chapters, God is referred
to as Elohem, Elohem, Elohem, and then right around the
time of the expulsion from the garden, the divine name
is inserted, you know, the Jodey bob Hey. I'm a
firm believer in what they call the documentary hypothesis. A
lotus scholars looked at that, and they took the opinion
that Moses was like a documentarian, like either they already
had a creation story already recorded and written down, or
in the very least, a strong oral tradition. And they
had all these stories and traditions already laid out, and Moses,
you know, compiled them and put them together into like
one flowing narrative. Because to me that that really stood
out because like the serpent seed, I bring up all
that stuff, and I bring up you know, John even saying,
you know, Caine was of the wicked one. Jesus tells
the Pharisees, you know, they are a brud of vipers.
They are of their father, the devil, who was a
murderer from the beginning. You know, all these different verses,
and people will throw up that one verse where they're
kicked out of the garden and where Eve makes this
special proclamation. That's the one verse everybody tries to use
against me.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: But when you use that documentary hypothesis, I think it
kind of puts it to bed because she said, well,
when she, you know, delivers them. It says that Adam
knew his wife and she bore Cain and then again
she bore able. Well, bore just means delivered. So I'm
saying a seed was germinated in the garden, and then
when Adam knew his wife, another seed was germinated. And
we know through science. I mean it's called a super
hyper functation or some kind of big word like that,
but a woman can get pregnant with twins by two
different poles like.
Speaker 2: I just saw that in the news or somethime like
somebody's posted that that some chick did get pregnant with
twins with two different dads. But okay, but what about
back to this Moses hypothesis thing. I'm under the impression
that all scripture is breathed by God, so that God
had spoken to Moses and that's when he wrote it.
Are you saying something different than that that he like
gathered information from other Uh, I don't know, other nations
or other backgrounds or other cultures and kind of tied
it together or.
Speaker 3: We'll see me. I don't And here's the thing, like
when I read that account and it comes to that,
we said at knew his wife and she bore Cane,
then again bore Abel. When she bore Cane, she had
this special proclamation just for Kane, not for Able. But
she says, I have acquired this man, which that's the
etymology of his name anyway. You know, he said, I
have acquired this man through the help of the Lord,
you know, the olde have av he the divine name.
And people was like, oh, well there you go. Uh
those other twenty verses you just threw up this one
cancels out that whole mound of evidence that she had
stockpiled there because Eve says that she got came from
the Lord. And then but I noticed that was like
one of the first changes. It's like, we're told Moses
wrote the first five books of the Bibles. What we're
holding church right, Uh, the text doesn't come right out
and say that Moses wrote out the five text. That's
kind of a teaching, a doctrine of man or the church.
But that's what I was always told. But Moses had
the divine name. He was the first one to get it.
And so if Moses wrote all this, then his name
he would have been using the divine name because he
had it. So it's like if I'm an author of
a book and I'm writing a book about Matt, and
I'm like, Matt woke up this morning, brushed his teeth,
took a shower, and went to work. After a hard
day's work, come home, eight supper, Physity with his kids,
went to sleep. But then the next morning, Jesse gets
up and brushes his teeth and takes a shower and
goes to work just like he did the day before.
You're going to be like well, yeah, why did the
name change in the middle of the story, because I
think that I think it signals two authors. Interesting, if Moses,
Moses had the divine name, he would have used it.
So to me, it signals that whether I'm not saying
that he stole from other nations, I mean I think
it could have been very well their story. You know
that they had written down it was theirs. It just
it wasn't you know, written down into like a unified document,
you know, kind of like at three twenty five AD.
You know, they had all these scrolls and they decided
to unify them into one document, to which what we
call the Bible today. I think that something like that
happened with Moses. That they had either oral traditions that
were established and passed down for generations or maybe even
written down, and then he took them and put them
all together and made it one story, kind of like
what the Church fathers did at the Council of Nicia,
or in the very least, that was the first edit,
you know that Moses, you know, added in the divine
name there or that's where he picked up the story himself.
But yeah, they call that the the documentary hypothesis, and
so I tell people, like if when I read that,
if we stick with the original name, I think it
originally said, uh, I have acquired this man through the
help of the Eloheim, because before this it was always Elohem.
In the beginning, the Elohem created the heavens and the earth.
The Eloheim said, let us make man in our image,
and I can be plural talking about the divine council
as well. So I tell people, I think the original
said I have acquired this man through the help of
the Eloheim. So then I asked that question, well, which loheim?
Speaker 2: Yeah? That which is in USh? Yeah, because the Eloheim
can be any spirit, realmanities like that. But it is
a name that God uses of himself too, which is
intriguing because the L is singular and the I AM's plural,
which is intriguing if you're talking about the god head,
it's singular and it's plural. But that's yeah, that's an
interesting take too.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 2: So okay, so now we're rolling with canaan abel. Let's
get into where like abel Uh dies, the blood cries out,
and then Kan gets a mark put on him before
he goes out into the earth. We kind of just unpacked,
like what we think could potentially be out there. It's
all these you're you're saying that, like the people created
in Genesis one, those are all the people out on
planet Earth outside the garden. Now Kin is outside the garden,
and what like, what's your take on the mark that
he's got? Because this is where it gets good too.
I like this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So when I got to reading some of these
other you know, ridings and stuff, Rabbi Rashi he had
talked to his writings that he believed that the mark
was that he was covered in hair and given a horn. Oh,
so he was worried about them killing him. So God
made him look like this you know, beast with a horn.
That way, nobody would try to kill him. They'd stay
away from him. They'd be scared of him basically, which.
Speaker 2: Is kind of a thing like people should be careful
to stay away from horny dudes. Is kind of the
lesson learned in that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what the bull you get the horn for real.
So yeah, and that story though, Yeah, he's like, that's
why you know, he was, you know, so worried about
being killed because he looked like this, this hairy beast
of a man, and it's kind of like God's calling
card for cursing, because he did the same thing to Nebekinezzer.
You remember it says that his hair grew as long
as eagles feathers. Yeah, all that stuff. So it's like
kind of like God's calling card he curses people to
be like a wild man kind of. And Rabbi Rashi
says that he also thinks that it was a misinterpretation of,
you know, the Time seven curse, because if we remember
in Genesis we have limec Limet comes home and he's like, oh,
I killed a man, and in my anger, I killed
a youth.
Speaker 2: You know. Let me let me read that. Let me
read that.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you kind of unpack it because you brought
up a great point too that this is where I
forget what the word is. But it's the practice of
having more than one wife. What do you call it.
Speaker 3: Again, Yeah, polygamy.
Speaker 2: It starts with this dude lamec right, because God's intention,
like from the jump, because I remember Jess was always like, dude,
I don't like this whole thing with the dudes in
the Bible having multiple wives and stuff. And I was
always like, yeah, sweet, I don't. I don't know what
happened like in the beginning, was supposed to be Adam
and Eve like like from from uh and I would
argue that the Bible is really at its core of
six thousand year account of the descendants of Adam. There's
some other stuff happening with some other entities that are
not descendants of Adam. But uh, you know, Jesus sacrifice
is for the descendants of Adam. You know, It's like uh,
top was even talking about on a show last week
where that like the angels didn't have the opportunity for
salvation the same way that we do. But there's certainly
these other things and other entities in the earth, But ultimately,
the Bible is the story and the six thousand in
your account of the descendants of Adam and from and
from the from the beginning, with Adam, it was one man,
one woman. That was a marriage, right, So this is
what it says in Genesis four nineteen, it says, and
Lamech took unto him two wives. The name of the
one was Ada, and the name of the other Zillah.
And Ada bear j ball. He was the father of
such as dwell in tents and such as have cattle.
People got to read the book. People, I don't want
to like be the guy, the corny guy like plugging
the book. But I'm but you really got to read
the book because you do a deep dive on these
names too, and it's really intrigued too. And his brother's
name was Jewbal. He was the father of all such
as handle the harp and organ and zilla. She also
bear tubalcane and instructor of every artificer in brass and iron.
And the sister of tubalcane was Nama. Intriguing that names,
the sister the female. It's it's a good read man.
And Lamex said, unto his wives, ada on zillah, hear
my voice. She wives of Limech, harken unto my speech,
for I have slain a man to my wounding and
a young man to my hurt. If Caine shall be
avenged sevenfold, truly, Lamech seventy and sevenfold. I like your
take on that you're what you're seeing unpacked if you
want to go ahead and unpack it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And like you know, as far as like you
know the names, I'll leave some of the meat on
the bone. But like one I'll throw out, like name.
You know, in genealogies you don't get women listed if
you do it, I mean they're significant. There's something trying
to point out. And her name means fair and calmly,
and if you remember, it says that the angels came
down and bread with the dollars and women or men
because they thought they were fair and calmly.
Speaker 2: They were like that where yeah, yeah, that was an
intriguing thing. You tied together too.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So it's like and then all of a sudden,
her brothers become these masters of all these different you know,
workings that were taught by the fallen angels. So I
think it's kind of like a nose point there saying hey,
maybe this was you know, one of the first ones
that you know, they traded their sister to the fallen
angels and then there they taught them all these you
know works and taught them to be workers of iron
and all this other kind of stuff. So like they
traded her for the knowledge. But yeah, you get that
thing about Lomec And to me, I was like, I
just you know, it's kind of strange. It's just you know,
they throw it out there like he comes home. He's upset,
and he killed somebody and killed a youth to his herd,
and he's going to be cursed, you know, time seventy
but Rashie, he says that, and he got this from
the Midrashes, and they have a tradition and they say
that Lemeck was going blind and his older age, and
that he needed help from his younger son too will
came to hunt, and that he would, you know, basically
point his bow for him and tell him where to shoot,
you know, help him hunt. And that one day out
on the hunt, they saw a beast of the field,
and his son aimed his bow for him and told
him where to shoot, and they shot and killed the beast,
and they get up on it and then lo and behold,
it's not a beast. It's their ancestor Kane. Because where
he had that mark, he was covered in hair and
had this horn. That's why he's he's upset. He just
killed his descendant, and he knew about the cursing also,
so then it says then he turns to his son
and kills his son for the mistake, and then that's
why he goes home and says what he says but
the real funny part was is Roshie says, the misinterpretation
is the cursing time seven. He said, a lot of
people want to look at that and say, oh, they're
just saying if anybody kills Caine, that man's going to
be cursed. Time seven, you know, just you know, a
big number. He said. No, he said, I think what
God was saying there was that the vengeance for Abel's
blood would come time seven, So they would come in
the seventh generation, which is what gets yes, and when
you count down to the genealogical table there he is
the seventh from Adam. So therefore he's fulfilling the prophecy
from God. There.
Speaker 2: Okay, But if Keene was like, let's say the mark
that was put on was that he was hairy and
he had a horn, surely there would be something else
in like literature or art or something where we would
see this right.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and see so there I was like, okay,
I already think he was a serpent seed. He was
covered in this hair and made, you know, depicted this way.
And then the baseline of my book of Esau, you know,
it's at Genesis twenty five twenty five, it said the
first one came out red, covered in hair from head
to toe like a Harry cloak. And all the ancient
texts point Esau as a serpent seed. You know, there's
texts like Lewis Ginsburg Legends of the Jews, and that's
a sixth book series where Lewis Ginsburg gathered all the
legends and stories and mythologiesron the Jewish people and compiled
them together. And I'm actually doing a live study reading
of that on my YouTube channel every Sunday at eight
o'clock Eastern Standard. I'm going through and reading all these
stories and so in there it says that Esau had
a serpent's branding, that his guardian angel was Semi l
It does all these things point to him being this
serpent seed. But like you said, h I was studying
for this book. It actually had a friend sent me
this a shout out to christy uh. He sent me
this picture of Michelangelo's from the Sistine Chapel called the
Last Judgment, And in that painting it's you know, showing
you know, basically the Book of Revelation. And so this
is the Last Judgment. You have angels and demons battling
in the heavens, you know, and all this stuff it
just you know, it's it's anarchy. But then at the bottom,
and I think it's weird too, because at the very
bottom left, yeah, right there you go, you have this cave,
and in this cave you have too Harry, humanoid top
men that looked like sasquatches.
Speaker 2: How do we get the picture of the horn?
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then up top of the one guy, he
has a single unicorn horn on top of his head.
Speaker 2: Yeah. They just wild up on that ceiling. Dude. We
were in there one time. They go like and everybody
starts talking, and then in Italian they go cialentio and
then everybody goes silent for a while and then boom,
everybody just starts talking again, talking and they go sh cialentio.
But it's wild, dude. All the imagery in the Vatican
and on the assisting Chapelin stuff is just wild, bro.
It's just like the craziest stuff man. And I don't know, like, uh,
I don't know, like like who even knows what of
history really is what they tell us it is. I
don't know, Just like who, like we ever drill this stuff?
This is wild, man, But that's a that's a little detailed. Yeah,
nobody would see right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And to me that signals that he was aware
of these other texts that I was reading.
Speaker 2: That's an interesting thing. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think he put that in there is kind of
like a little easter egg. You know, say, hey, here's
the serpent seed, Esau and Kane, and they're depicted just
like they are in scripture and the other you know, uh,
mythologies or legends or lower of the Jewish people. So
I mean like he put that in there as an
easter egg.
Speaker 2: You know, obviously it would have to be still like
metaphorical or symbolic, right, because if Kin dies right there
from La Mac, if that all holds true, he wouldn't
live all the way to the time of Esau. But
he kind of just put him in theres like a
metaphor symbolism or a type that you know, it's because
that because that's your take, right, is that he was
he was he put in there, Esau in Kane in
the cave.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was depicting the serpent seed in that cave there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so not hiding for judgment, you know. Yeah, Okay,
so it didn't matter that they lived, It didn't live
in the same time period. It's something about the end.
It's the judgment and they're hiding out. These dudes are
hairy beast. They're about to get it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's the you know, the serpent seed. And
so therefore it's the whole bruising of the head and
bruising of the hill. Uh. I think that's why they
kept track of the genealogies, because there's obviously two lines
in the Book of Revelation. Uh, you know, you have
the anti Christ, you know, of of the serpent. So
he's the he's their Christ, you know, figure of the family.
Speaker 2: All you're saying is also a serpent seed.
Speaker 3: I believe so, yeah, because that's how that they were
painting him. And I tell people, I'm like, you know,
we can get lost in the weeds of you know,
was this physical, was this spiritual? I mean, it could
be either or but you know, we can't debate. That's
what they thought of him.
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Abraham, he has Isaac
and Ishmael. Uh, Isaac has Jacob and Esau. Ultimately Esau
goes and joins himself to Ishmael. That they end up
being a full lineage. But so potentially Isaac, who has
Jacob and Esau? Is it with Rebecca? I always get
the names. Okay, that's the mom Rebecca. Potentially Isaac bones Rebecca,
but so does Satan.
Speaker 3: Well, so here's the thing that's Will saying that, because
I mean, I don't know. I wasn't there, but I
know that the extra biblical sources paint him as a serpency.
They say he had a serpent's branding. They said semi
Al was his guardian angel. And you got to remember too,
I tell people they didn't have a Bible back then.
They didn't have chapters. It was a scroll. So you
have the cursing at the garden, right, I will put
enmity between her seed and dye seed. One will bruce
one's head, one will bruce the other's heel. And just
a few like I said, remove the chapters and the verses,
because it's just a scroll to the ancient reader. So
just a few verses down from that cursing, you have
the birth of Esau. On what happens. An angel comes
to Rebecca and says, two nations, two peoples are in
your womb, and they battle against each other. There will
be enmity between the two, and he says that the
younger will rule over the older. So the ancient reader
would automatically that'd been like a red flag on the field,
like whoa, oh, the birthright and blessing is supposed to
go to the eldest. The eldest rules over the younger.
Something's wrong here, something's off, So that would have got
their attention. And then the next verse is the birth
and it says the first one came out red, covered
in hair from head to toe, like a hairy cloak. Yeah,
all the people of the ancient world of this time
they worshiped fertility gods. All the fertility gods were wild men.
They were covered in hair from head to toe. And
if you remember, Rebecca was having trouble conceiving. Right in
the ancient world, that was the woman's sole job. If
she couldn't produce, especially a male heir, she was worthless.
She was replaced by a younger, more fertile woman. This
is what Sarah was dealing with. Sarah was scared to
death and that's why she gave him Hagar. So you
have this same thing happening again. They're in this world
where everybody worships these hairy fertility gods to bless their womb.
She's getting up in age, she can't produce any children,
she's getting worried, she's getting desperate. I think it's not
a far stretch to say that in her moment of desperation,
of fear of being thrown out of the home and
being replaced by a younger woman, that she would pray
to a fertility god to bless her womb. And that's
why he come out looking like that, or at least
depicted that way. And people forget she came from the
house of Laban. Okay, up there they worshiped all these
fertility gods in one of them in particularly, his name
was sam Quain, and they caught him the lord of
the cattle. And if you go through the Epica Gilgamesh,
Inky Doo, who's described just like he saw covered and
ham had the toe. He was made by Inky the devil,
it said, but he was made in the image of
sam Quain. And this is the same region. So he
comes out looking like this fertility god. And their household
they worshiped all these false idols and stuff. That's what
she come That's how she grew up and was raised,
and it said her handmaiden comes with her, and if
you remember, they even steal the tariff them and stuff
when they leave the house. So I don't think it's
out of the question to think that someone that was raised,
you know, praying to these Harry fertility gods, would would
reach out to them in a moment of desperation. But
when he's born, though, it's a carbon copy polaroid picture
of Genesis three fifteen. Like I said, when they're scrolling
down through there, first one comes out red covered and
have had the toe like a Harry cloak, and then
the twin Esau has to come out first, so you
can easily picture his foot pressing on Jacob's head, bruising
the head. And then it adds this detail that Jacob
comes out clutching the heel of Esau bruising the hill.
I mean to me, especially the ancient reader who just
read about that curse in the garden, that's gonna be
top and center of their thought.
Speaker 2: Like switch it right, pull the switcher room and say okay,
well let's make the curse go the other way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I think that you know, the devil, whether
it was a spiritual seed, an actual seed that's up
for debate. It's not a cross that I'm willing to
build on the hill and die on. But we know
they depicted it that way.
Speaker 2: We got there. I don't know. Yeah, you do a
good job of breaking it down that all of the
people that are with Yahweh are still always in this
way of like false gods, right that, Uh? Is it
Rebecca that gets off the laban comes and chases down
Jacob and then his wife gets off and she's got
a she's took an idol and hit it and she says, no, no,
I'm I'm I'm PMS and right now like I'm on
the rag, don't don't check my stuff, And she had
false idols. Another trippy one is Joseph in Egypt Man.
He tells his brothers they remember, uh, they take off
with the cup and he says, you guys, didn't think
I'd recognize that you took the cup that I divine with.
You're like, what the what in the world Joseph like
was in was in that realm? Like so there's constantly
like these false gods tied in with this story that
we just missed because we live in such a materialistic
world and kind of just a superficial, shallow existence today
in America, right, Like we just don't recognize and understand
how unseen realm works and the false gods and stuff.
But that like there, it's for a lot of these people.
It keeps coming back to that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's what I said in the book because
I was like, even me reading it, I'd get so frustrated. Like,
for instance, God's people getting brought out of the plagues.
They witnessed, all these miracles of God got to cross,
you know, the Red Sea parted for them, the fire
came down on the mountain, you know, all these things.
But then Moses leaves for a little while, comes back,
and they've already built this golden idol. And I'm like,
you idiots, you just seen all the miraculous things God
has done, and you're already rebelling. But what I wasn't
thinking about then was no, there was these other lowercase
g gods that had power. People were sacrificing their children
to these things. There had to be a payoff. They
were seeing magic and miracles from the other side too,
Why else would they rebel like that?
Speaker 2: Man, it's a valid point man, and uh yeah, the
hairy thing with Esau. I mean it gets wild where
Isaac wants to bless Esau instead of Jacob, because it's
Rebecca who got told the older will serve the younger,
like she got told she was in the like to me,
she's in the right in this story because she got
told by God how this is supposed to go down.
So it's intriguing that Jacob or that Isaac sorry, is
trying to bless Esau when it was already told to
Rebecca how this was supposed to go down. Well, that
that the younger was supposed to be the blessed one.
So it is a wild story. But then but then
it gets into where they tried to despot. They try
to disguise Jacob as Esau and they put goat for
on them. Yeah, you know when you just read them.
I mean, I mean, I probably the note in my Bible,
especially it's the first time I made a note, and
it was just like, how hairy is this dude? Like
like what in the world world, But it's actual goat
skins are put on him, like he has goat skin.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's the thing I tell people. It's
not poetic language, folks. I mean he was literally that Harry.
I mean we all have that Harry uncle, like I
jokingly talked about earlier, but you would never close your
eyes and touch your Harry uncle and think that he
was a goat. So he has literally that Harry and
goats for it's Harry. It's oily, it's coarse, thick for
a human.
Speaker 2: You know, it could be that thick, but it's like fluffy,
bro like the goat. Hare is dense. Dude, it's specifically animal.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's wild man. There's there's something definitely happening that's
not right with the dude esaw.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And and the trading of his birthright too, that
that that is something that never made sense to me.
Uh reading that, you know, he was Esau. He was
the mighty hunter. This man's man, and the Book of
Genesis just says he comes in from the field exhausted
and trades his birthright for a bowl of stew. I'm like,
who and the hell would do that? I mean, he's
not starving, he's the mighty hunter. He would go slay
a lion and have a lion's steak if he was hungry.
This guy's not starving. I'm missing something here. And once
I started going through these other texts and stuff that
we've been talking about today, one of those was the
Book of Jashure, and in there it tied that story
up perfectly and made it make sense to me finally,
because it says that Nimrod, who was also a mighty hunter,
and it was kind of like the Highlander, you know,
there can only be one Daddy, I will show you
who the real mighty man is. And it says that hatred, jealousy,
and envy built up in the heart of Nimrod against
es Also, he puts a hunting party together and they
go and hunt him like a wild beast. I mean,
it's a hunting party, like you go hunting for a lion,
because he was this harry beast of a man. And
it says that Nimrod in two of his gibble reem,
you know, the same word usually describe the Nephlom giants,
separated from the hunting party, and that Esau sees them,
jumps out, cuts off Neimrod's head, battles the other two
gibbe reem to the death. That the hunting party hears
the screams, comes running, but Esau takes the time to
remove Nimrod's garments, and it said that these are the
garments to which Nimrod was able to prevail over all
the nations, and that then he takes those garments and
hides them in his tent and then goes to his
brother's tint, and that's where Genesis picks up. So I
was like, yeah, I mean, he come in from the
field exhausted. All right, he just you know, killed the king.
He's a man on the run. He just called the giants.
Speaker 2: That's the take of that all happened during that story.
Oh wow, where he comes back in and says, give
me the bull of soup man, because he just went
out and killed who did he saw kill? Then Nemrod
is that.
Speaker 3: And took the garments. And that's why even in Genesis
it makes sense now because in Genesis he makes like
this little melodramatic catty comment and he says, what use
is a birth right to me when I am to die?
Speaker 2: Yeah? So okay, But I think he also said something
to the extent, and maybe he had his fingers crossed
or didn't really care or was just gonna do something
like that, Wait, so are those garments you think is
the skins that were put on at Ham and Eve?
Is that in jash Or two and like Demrod got
his hands on those garments or that something different.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the same ones. And I never got exposed
to that. So I mean that kind of blew my
mind because I was like, Okay, now this makes sense.
He just battled King Nemrod, killed two giants, probably sustained
some life threatening injuries. He's on the run, so that's
why he goes in and tells his brother, you know what,
use is a birth right to me when I'm dead.
Take it. So it's like you I said in the book,
kind of joking. I'm like, you know, maybe he had
his fingers crossed behind his back because he was a dying,
desperate man. He would have said anything to get his
brother's help. So I think it was allegory for uh,
you know, give me life saving care, sustain me, give
me sustenance, bandage me up, hide me. And that's why
he was like, I'll tell him whatever he wants to hear,
because I just wanted to live. I'm a desperate man,
you know, but my first thing is I asked. When
I read that, I'm like, what is up with these garments?
What are these garments? And like you had mentioned through
Lewis Ginsburg Legends of the Jews, through the Book of
Jashure and so many other writings, they believed that the
coverings that were given to Adam were these supernatural garments
from the garden of God, and that when they talk
about the birthright, that's what they're talking about. And they
believe that they were the priestly robes of Satan.
Speaker 2: And so wait, what went So God slays something, sacrifices
something to give Adam and Eve fur right a covering,
but then you referred to it as what now the
garments of Satan?
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, So when you get into that reading once
again that the original languages are so important. When we
read in the English, it just says he makes for them,
you know, a garment of skins. And I was taught that,
you know, this is a foreshadowing of Christ and that
something had to die to cover the sins, and it
makes perfect sense in beautiful theological picture. But when you
get into the original languages, it says that God hell
bishes their nakedness with a cononit and cononit is what
they translated into skins. But many times that word is used.
It's just talking about a tunic or a covering. M
and they said that this was the coverings of the nakash.
Is what all the ancient books say. Oh wow. And
when you get to Ezekiel twenty eight, what does it
say there? It's you know, it's a condemnation to the
King of Tire, but the wording changes. You know, it's
no longer talking to this king. It's talking to the
spiritual entity behind the king. And it says, you were
in the garden of God, perfect in all your ways,
you know, until iniquity was found in you and you
were cast from the mountain of God. Is a profane thing,
you know. It's no longer talking to the king. And
he says, every precious stone was your covering. It says
barrel onyx topaz jasper let. The lists all these stones.
The Mesoretic texts lists nine, but the septuagen lists twelve stones.
But it's giving you a polaroid picture of the priestly
ephod that the Levites wore. So it's painting Satan in
a priestly role. And then like the next burst down.
It even says that he profaned his sanctuaries. So it's
painting Satan as the high priest in heaven and so,
and the ancient text says that the garments or skins
or coverings given to Adam was once the coverings of
the nakash well Mosiki twenty eight. We know that's the
priestly epot. So here is where kingship and priesthood was
given to Adam, where dominion was given to Adam. Because
at the fall Satan, his garments, his priestly position was
taken from him and bestowed upon Adam. And that's what
they believed, and they traced these garments. It says it
went to Adam to Enoch, Methuselah to Noah, that Noah
had them going over the flood.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I think I remember that. And then ultimately
like Araham gets trained up by Sham. Is that is that? Uh,
that's all Jasher too, right that? Yeah, the coach just
keep getting passed down. Yeah, yeah, that's why i.
Speaker 3: Am stole them. And it said that in Ham's rebellion
in going out, that he stole those garments. And then
that's how Nimrod wounded up with them. So when Esau
kills him, he steals back the family's birthright, and that's
what he hides in his tent. And we see those
garments in that story. You know, a lot of people
thinks it's kind of controversial, but it's there. And if
you let scripture interpret scripture, the uncovering of his father's nakedness,
you know, ain't that he come in? His dad was
passed out drunk, and he looked at him naked. You know,
if you get into Levitigus seventeen, it says in there
to uncover thy father's nakedness is to sleep with thy
father's wife for his nakedness. So he sleeps with his
mother in an incestuous act. And that's why he said
cursed be Canaan, because Canaan was the result of Cain
sleeping with his mother and producing a baby, and that
baby was Canaan. That's why he said curse had be Canaan.
But in that story, you remember, it says that sim
who was the eldest him and he got his brother
and they took a garment placed upon their backs, walked
forwards and covered their father's nakedness. Once again, you go
to the original languages. It doesn't say a garment. It
says they took the garment, so it has a definite
article assigned to it. They're talking about something very specific.
I think they're talking about the garments because this was
an active rebellion in the ancient world. Yeah, you know,
you slept with your father's concubines or wife's to usurp
your dominance over the family. I'm trying to think David's son,
what was his name, David King, David his son that
tried to overthrow the kingdom, and it said that he's
absolom Yes, because it said once he run David out.
The first thing he done he pitched a tent on
his father's house and when coument. Yeah, so this is
what you did. That's how you flexed on the old
man back that they said he was trying to take
the head position of the household. So how perfect would
it be theologically speaking to take the symbolic crown and
to place it back on the father refusing Ham's rebellion.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot to unpack in that, dude, I
don't know. The book crushes there's there's a lot to
unpack in it. I think that's as far as I
got so far. So I don't know if I want
to like bust the rest of the book or.
Speaker 3: Some of them. But that that garment though, you see
him again in that Deception of Jacob, because if you remember,
they kill the goat, they wrap him in this goat's fur.
But then if you read on it says that like
as the final cherry on top, Rebecca says, goes into
the tint.
Speaker 2: Of Esau and puts and puts on his garments.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's those garments that he stole from Camron.
Yeah that's wild, dude, that whole thing's wild. I don't
want to know the rest of the book though.
Speaker 2: That's the problem, Like, I like, that's how far I
am in your book so far, and I don't even
know what happens next. I'm always intrigued by the dude
Esau too. And actually the first Bible passage that I
ever brought up the top is in Deuteronomy too, where
it talks about how God didn't just kill off Nephilum
tribes just with Israel. He did it with the descendants
of of Lot, and he did it with the descendants
of Esau too, so like God gives Esau and his
descendants a chunk of land and he goes in. It's
in Deuteronomy too. I can just read it. Actually, I
can just read it because Top came in with the
Nephlum de Squad shirt the first day I met him,
and I said, bro, uh, what do you know about
the Nephilm man you like, like Bible Nephilim, like Genesis
six Nephlim. The tops like, yeah, yeah, what do you
think you know? And he was like, you know, we
did a little warfare real quick where Top was like
flexing on me and stuff, and I was like, yeah, this,
And then I said, bro, what about Deuteronomy too. I
never hear anybody talk about it, but this is a
Nephilum story too. He's like, what, yeah, let's talk about it.
So he sat down the end of the bar. It's
one of the great days of my life actually looking back.
But in Deuteronomy too, it says this, starting in verse
nine says and the Lord said them to me, distress
not the Moabites, neither contend with them in battle, for
I will not give thee of their land for a possession,
because I have given r under the children of Lot
for a possession. So God's given out territories man to
other nations other than Israel. The Imams dwelt therein in
times past, the people great and many and talls, the Anakims.
That's why that Imams word means terrors, and we think
that that's obviously Nephilim right verse eleven, which also were
accounted giants Refaen as I believe is the Hebrew word
as the Anakims, but the Moabites called them Imams. The
Horums also dwelt in saiyear before times, so he's just
named Nephlam tribes. The Horums also dwelt in saiyear before time,
but the children of Esau succeeded them when they had
destroyed them from before them and dwelt in their steed
as Israel did unto the land of his possession, which
the Lord gave unto them. So it's saying that like
God gave the descendants of Esau certain land, and they
went in and took out giant tribes. If you jumped
forward to I think it's first twenty. In the same chapter,
it says verse eighteen that were to pass over through
the coast of Moab this day, And when you come
nigh over against the children of Aman, distress them not
nor meddle with them. For I will not give thee
of the land of the children of Aman any possession,
because I have given it under the children of Lot
for a possession that also was accounted a land of giants.
Giants dwelt they're in an old time, and the Ammonites
called them Zamzumams, people great and many and tall as
the Anakims. But the Lord destroyed them before them, and
they succeeded them, and dwelt in their steed, as he
did to the children of Esau, which dwelt in sid ear,
when he destroyed the Horems from before them, and they
succeeded them and dwelt in their steed even under this day.
And the Avims, which dwelton has a room, even under Aza,
the cafter rooms which came forth the caft or destroyed
them and dwelt in their steed. Anyway, it's just there's
this whole other story that's just said in passing about
how God not just with Israel taking over the Promised
land where there was giants taking out Canaan or even
even before they get into promised land, like aug and
Sihon taking out like those Nephilim tribes. God actually took
the sentence a lot and descendants of Esau and went
and destroyed Nephlom tribes too, which is wild. If you're
looking at this passage, it says like Jacob I loved
and Esau I hated. So he hated Esau, but he
also used him and his descendants to wipe out Nephalom. Yeah.
Speaker 3: And the thing too is like, uh, I praised Gary
Wayne h for actually diving through the boring genealogies because
of him, Yeah, I found out that the Wrotes and
Hibye were known Nephlim giant clans.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And once this deception happens, Esau goes into full rebellion
and he takes three wives, and one of them he
goes to his uncle Ishmael, who just like him, was
the eldest born son who was screwed out of his birthright.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 3: Then he takes a wife from the Horites and the Heavites,
who were known Nephlum giant clans. Right, So who you
have this Harry quote unquote man Esau marrying into Nephlim
giant clans and breeding with them, and in the Book
of Genesis says that one of his father in laws
was named Sier, who reigned from the land of Mount Sier.
And the etymology of that word it means harry. So
we know they were known Nephlim giant clans and they
get their name associated to them for their hairiness. So
these are earth a clan of faral giants, and Esau
gets with them and interbreeds with them, and through his
loins is where you get the Amalekites, and the Amalekites
you go to the etymology of their name that means
the blood liquors, and yeah, and Rashi and a lot
of these other rabbis to talk about these writings that
they say that the Amalekites were known sorcerers, and it
even says shape shifters, and that's why they're the only
group in the Bible that God says wipe out every man, woman, child,
and animal because they were known shape shifters and would
shape shift into animals.
Speaker 2: To them, that's wild. Take man that that He's like, yo,
you better kill the animals too, because that could be
some of these shape shifters just hiding out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and these come from Esau. And if you remember,
these are the Malachites. That's the first people group that
God's people encounter in their wilderness wanderings. You don't get,
you know, a rule, a law, a regulation, unless those
things are being done and or broken. So I think
it's important. I think it tells it describes these people
groups that they were encountering by those laws and rules,
because if you look at them, what does it say?
No longer will you sacrifice to what to harry goat demons? Okay,
so here you have this hairy man Esau breeding with
faral giant clans, making this blood sucking group that are
known witchcraft, sorcerers and shape shifters, it says, and the
book Isaiah says that the wild men will dance in
the desolate cities and in the wilderness. No longer will
you pass your children through the fires of mold. You
will not seek necromancers and sorcerers. You will not drink
the blood, the powers in the blood. All these, you know,
things are given to God's people during their wilderness wanderings.
And we know the Amalekites is the first people group
they encountered and went to war with.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they come and they attacked the week and the
feeble at the back of the camp specifically. And God's like, bro,
I got beef with them forever now, Yeah, And I.
Speaker 3: Don't know the history of people were like that. They
were this sorcerer you know, necromancing witchcraft type people.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: God's people was trying to emulate them, so that's why
he had to say no, no, no.
Speaker 2: And I don't know, I've never followed it out or
maybe you know, but from what I understand, the Amelkites
they have been wiped off? Right? Or is their descendants
like I know, you can look at Aman and that's
like Aman Jordan, like the like the Ammonites or whatever
Persians like, there's still that's still a thing. Babylonians is
still a thing, or the amelkit it's that. Is that
a people group that's been destroyed, that's wiped out? Or
do they trace the Amelokites to like a modern people
group today That.
Speaker 3: I'm not so sure of. I don't know, but I
do know in Deuteronomy, because of their witchcraft and you know,
picking off the weak and the women and that kind
you know, militia style warfare and the things that they've done. Uh,
because they even a glimped them in with the Edomites.
Speaker 2: Right, because well, yeah, is eat them too, right, like
doesn't it? Scriptures that in several places where Esau has
eat them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they stood back when the Babylonians ransacked Jerusalem, right,
cheered while the city was being burned. It said that
while the captives were being taken away and changed to Babylon,
that the Edomites stood back and clapped and cheered. Yeah,
and yeah, that's why God said he you know, never forgets.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: One of the paths that he.
Speaker 2: Was on out their name talks about the continual hatred
between Israel and eat them And I think Chuck Missler
used to do it. Must have been Chuck. Somebody used
to do some studies based on the continual hatred that
doesn't go with Maybe it's Derek Prince, I can't remember.
Somebody used to do some studies on the on the
like forever hatred between Israel and Edam.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's a it's the sea war man, I
will put between her seed and yeah, I see then
you see it in the news today they're still fighting
over their birthright, and one group thinks that they were
screwed out of there inherit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the story modern modern Middle East reads just like
Genesis or a lot of this other stuff all through scripture. Man,
it's really not changing.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
Speaker 2: Nope.
Speaker 3: And I think, uh, because I know you're an Alberino fan.
I know you're a friend, a fan of Daddy. He
talked about the the elder brother and the younger brother
in the in the Battle of the birth Right.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 3: I think you see that, you know perfectly through there.
And I think the Bible is filled with macro and
microcosms of this overall story, our story. You know, elder
brother who was the angelic race according to job that
was there and witnessed creation. Sure, we're the younger brother
that screws up all the time, but God shows us favor. Yeah,
you see it in the Parable of the Prodigal Sun
and all these other things over and over again, because
I think it's a microcosm of our story. Yeah. And
I think Jesus talked about the seed war, the serpent
seed and his story of the Parable of the Wheat
and tears, you know. So, I mean, I think all
those stories are I'm not saying they're not real historical stories,
but they are stories within stories, kind of stacked like
the Russian doll, you.
Speaker 2: Know, yeah, the little Bobushka. Yeah, I like that. Now,
Alberino does a great job and birthrate of just kind
of unpacking this whole thing of this elder brother race
that's compatible. It's we're so close that we're compatible. That
like they came down and their bone and chicks here, like,
it's they're totally compatible. You see angels in scripture and
they look like humans, and so that is an interesting take, man,
But yeah it is. You know, Jesus died for the
descendants of Adam, man, Like that's what this whole thing
revolves around, and so it is wild mm hmm. But uh, bro,
do you want to say it? We're going to wrap
it up, man, But I just want to know. I
really appreciate you coming on dude a lot, and I
really like what you're doing. And I'm excited to read
the rest of the book.
Speaker 5: Man.
Speaker 2: We can do another show after I read everything else
or something. Was there anything else you want to get
into before we wrap it up?
Speaker 1: Well, I think don't you you do have a book
that you are working on. I don't know if you
want to tease that to him, i'd be I'd be
interested to see how Matt reacts to that sort of information,
because that's fascinating stuff.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I'm working on my other book now and
I'm calling it The Tail of Two Trees Chasing the Dragon,
and it's deep.
Speaker 2: I don't know how to turn stuff off, dude, what
are you doing?
Speaker 3: Okay, double entendres there, but uh, but it dies deeper
into it to serpent seed and even goes into like
the secular view of like the Maravin Engines and the Divaars,
these you know, elite ruling classes that's that trace their
lineages all the way back to Kane and say that
they have the divine right to rule.
Speaker 2: And uh, waite that you're saying. The book revolves around
people today that say that where do those people? Who
are those people or where do they live? Like?
Speaker 3: What is that? Well, you know, it's like the Maravin Engines,
the Divairs. Uh, there's a several different on jew you know,
Gary Wayne kind of talks about them too.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 2: I don't know anything about any of that stuff, bro
that be I'd like to read it though.
Speaker 3: But Uh, I talked to them. They have a lot
of rituals and stuff about drinking blood, and through them
is where you get a lot of your mythological creatures.
They're real, but they kind of got blown out of portion,
like wirewolves, vampires, elves, things like that, fairies. It's it's
talking about this, yeah.
Speaker 2: For a couple of months now, so I'm familiar with
some of that stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So, but I even told him the Song of
Solomon is one of those blood drink drinking rituals because
they would drink the minstrel flow of the dragon princess
and her secretions.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think you had everybody in an uproar when
you brought that up on the last show, right, that's why.
Speaker 3: Yeah. But it's in there, man, all the symbolism and
the Song of Solomon. You know, he feeds amongst the
lilies until the break of day, and she offers him
to enjoy of her pomegranate, you know, and she is
an ancient well sealed up, you know, referring to her
her virginity and chastity.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: It's been pretty wild so far studying all this.
Speaker 2: All right, So that book's coming out soon, Yeah, I
hope to have.
Speaker 3: It out before bro Grove. That way, I'll have it
at the table, That's what.
Speaker 2: I that'd be great, man, I'll sell it at bro Grove.
I worked the table, not sweating. All right. Well, give
me a heads up next time you come into town. Dude,
I would have loved to hang out. It just kind
of landed wild last time because my daughter was graduating,
so we had all this graduation stuff. There was one
on the Friday night, then there was stuff on the Saturday.
Then there was like parties and there was going out
to eat and it was just wild. Man. But I'd
love to hang out sometime.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, man, bro Grove, I'll be there for the weekend.
We'll get together and hang out.
Speaker 2: Cool, very cool.
Speaker 3: Now have you over at my show too. I want
to have you on my show. We'll talk about some stuff.
Speaker 2: All right, you just say win bro. But thanks again
for coming on. Man. Thank you everybody for tuning in
on the chat. It hasn't been two outrageous and crazy,
but we appreciate you guys, and we'll see.
Speaker 5: You on the next one.
Speaker 4: Not a rude not to rain, just to see through smoke,
gave heroes and calls bes my name they say, the
true will costume fans confide. Be some minds the same,
rewre softer base swim fires.
Speaker 5: Let us be