Speaker 1: It's nice with I'll you easy Boston's video.
Speaker 2: I guess it is my good friend in many ways.
Speaker 2: Mentor Harvey Silverglay, and we are talking about a situation
Speaker 2: in Boston where the Boston bomber too, I choose not
Speaker 2: to use his name. His lawyers now are filing another
Speaker 2: appeal to get him out from underneath the Dan McLean
Speaker 2: sword of the death penalty. And some conversation has come
Speaker 2: up about a supermax prison in Colorado. Harvey, I don't
Speaker 2: know if you've ever been there or not. I know
Speaker 2: little about it. I've never been there. Tell us what
Speaker 2: your understanding of it is, because you say that it
Speaker 2: is worse than the death penalty.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 4: The supermax prisons have the innate in isolation twenty three
Speaker 4: hours a day. There's only one hour a day when
Speaker 4: they are allowed out in the yard with other inmates.
Speaker 4: I don't know how anybody stays sane in the supermax prison.
Speaker 4: Maybe they don't. There have been a tax on a
Speaker 4: supermax prism on the ground that it constant it is
Speaker 4: crueler unusual punishment that has not yet prevailed. But I
Speaker 4: wouldn't be surprised if the composition of the Supreme court
Speaker 4: were to change to a more liberal court, that argument
Speaker 4: might prevail one of these days. As you know that
Speaker 4: these the subjective cultrucial arguments change over generations. It is
Speaker 4: worse than death in the opinion of the many people,
Speaker 4: including myself.
Speaker 2: Right, But I think I was about to make that point.
Speaker 2: Do they they have visitors? Correct? Family members?
Speaker 4: Yes, you can have visitors and three meals a day,
Speaker 4: but the isolation drives some of them quite crazy.
Speaker 2: They have access to televisions, yes, they do so radios.
Speaker 2: I mean we could have him listening to our show tonight.
Speaker 4: Are they do they have access to would like to
Speaker 4: have a life where or you do all day is
Speaker 4: watch television? You'd go crazy.
Speaker 2: A lot of my friends do that. Actually, some of
Speaker 2: my friends only watch watch CNN from morning to night,
Speaker 2: and some of my friends watch Fox News. And I'm
Speaker 2: trying to get him to me. Let's let's keep going here, Harvey.
Speaker 2: We got a bunch of calls and I'm enjoying the conversation.
Speaker 2: I hope you are. I appreciate your time. Let's go
Speaker 2: next to Mark in Cambridge. Okay, Harvey, Marks from Cambridge,
Speaker 2: So maybe.
Speaker 3: I thank your welcome.
Speaker 4: And I'm gonna be.
Speaker 1: A bench.
Speaker 2: By the way, I'm having trouble hearing you, and if
Speaker 2: I'm having trouble Harvey as well, are you on a speaker? Photo?
Speaker 3: So sort, I just think it off.
Speaker 2: Do me a favorite kind of clean up Mark's audio there, Okay,
Speaker 2: I don't want to lose him. We'll bring him back.
Speaker 2: Let's go in the meantime to Bob and rain him. Bob,
Speaker 2: hopefully your audio is a little better than Mark.
Speaker 5: Go ahead, Bob, all right, I'll try. Hi, Dan, Hi, Harvey.
Speaker 2: Ado, go right ahead, Dan.
Speaker 5: I think I'm with you one thousand percent on this one.
Speaker 2: You're a brave Dan, and and do your battle with
Speaker 2: Harvey civic like, go right ahead.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 5: As a human and thinking from the victim's point of view,
Speaker 5: I don't think I could sleep at night knowing that
Speaker 5: the person that perpetrated whatever the horrendous crime did my
Speaker 5: loved one is still breathing the air and eating food.
Speaker 4: And watching TV.
Speaker 5: And I wouldn't be able to sleep at night. And again,
Speaker 5: I think it goes back to what about the victims here?
Speaker 5: I mean, there's several victims when one person is murdered
Speaker 5: by another individual, and in the case of this case,
Speaker 5: in Boston. Why why is this guy still breathing the air?
Speaker 5: And what about the poor I can't remember? Is that
Speaker 5: the Richard family?
Speaker 2: But by the way, just so you know, I believe
Speaker 2: that his parents oppose the imposition of the death penalty,
Speaker 2: and they would support Harvey's argument.
Speaker 5: I'm surprised at that because I don't know.
Speaker 1: They must be they.
Speaker 5: Must be, no, I assure you, right, but I don't know.
Speaker 5: I mean, they must be better the people than me
Speaker 5: or whatever. But I could never I could never fail
Speaker 5: that way. And the other thing is is I think
Speaker 5: the death penalty could work as a deterrent if it
Speaker 5: was done swiftly instead of waiting thirty years to put
Speaker 5: these creeps to death. Okay, I mean it's it's.
Speaker 2: Let me get let me let me give Let me
Speaker 2: give Harvey a chance to persuade you. I don't think
Speaker 2: he's going to. But Harvey, is there any point that
Speaker 2: you feel you'd like to make to what Bob.
Speaker 4: Had to say, Well, the reason that these cases go
Speaker 4: on so long is precisely because the result, if the
Speaker 4: result is death, it's it's irremediable. You can't correct the
Speaker 4: mistake afterwards. So that's another rub you know, a Zarnaia
Speaker 4: would have been, you know, just serving his sentence. If
Speaker 4: this case were over, and this is no picnic to
Speaker 4: be in a supermax prison, then some of course there's
Speaker 4: all to the expenses and an enormous amount of resources
Speaker 4: going into this. It could be at the end the
Speaker 4: criminal justice system is screaming for more resources and he
Speaker 4: were wasting all this money and time on a death
Speaker 4: penalty case.
Speaker 2: There are although those those are all the arguments that
Speaker 2: we've heard for years. And I sometimes cite the case,
Speaker 2: Harvey of the doctor Phillips' family in Connecticut. The guys
Speaker 2: who went in tied him up, raped and burned his
Speaker 2: daughters to death by pouring gasolene. And they were you know,
Speaker 2: the you're familiar the case, and they were actually caught
Speaker 2: running away the police that surrounded the house. And so
Speaker 2: I mean, there are there are horrible, horrific crimes, and
Speaker 2: I don't know that we will live. Let me ask
Speaker 2: you one question, and Bob, I don't mean to steal
Speaker 2: your time, but just real, one quick question, Harvey, you're
Speaker 2: convinced that from a an actual areial point of view
Speaker 2: or a statistical point of view, that in view of
Speaker 2: the number of people that the Innocence Project has shown
Speaker 2: through DNA testing and some new developments, people who have
Speaker 2: been freed from prison. Why is it that the Innocence
Speaker 2: Project has not been able to produce more as I'm
Speaker 2: not familiar with the case that they have produced, by
Speaker 2: the way, and I have to go read it. But
Speaker 2: they've only, as I understand to produced one case in
Speaker 2: which they say they are certain that an innocent person
Speaker 2: was executed. What is the reason why they have not
Speaker 2: produced more examples of innocent people being executed?
Speaker 4: Because because by and large, the system convicts guilty people
Speaker 4: and not innocent people by and large. And that's absolutely true.
Speaker 4: But no human system is perfect. And the Innocence Part
Speaker 4: has proven that there is no doubt in my mind
Speaker 4: that there are other innocent people who are on death
Speaker 4: row and other people who have been executed. No doubt
Speaker 4: in my mind who they are would require an enormous
Speaker 4: amount of resources to find out.
Speaker 2: The project was trying to find that out or am
Speaker 2: I incorrecting that they.
Speaker 4: And they continue to try to find that out, And
Speaker 4: I don't have much doubt that they'll find additional cases.
Speaker 4: They have found one. I'm sure they'll find others, but
Speaker 4: I also have no doubt that there are additional cases.
Speaker 2: There have to be fair enough. Okay, Bob, I appreciate
Speaker 2: you taking the time to call, and I understand your position,
Speaker 2: and I'm empathetic to your position, and i appreciate your
Speaker 2: supporting this.
Speaker 4: Okay, thank you, Thanks Bob.
Speaker 2: Very we get back. I think Mark's line has been
Speaker 2: cleared up, and we got to take a quick break
Speaker 2: here and we will get back and Mark will be
Speaker 2: next up. We got Rochelle coming up, we got Joe,
Speaker 2: and then we've got some room for you. We'll take
Speaker 2: as many people as we can between now and the
Speaker 2: time that the Vice President of the United States actually
Speaker 2: comes out and delivers her acceptance speech of the Democratic
Speaker 2: presidential nomination. Back with Harvey Silverglade on night Side right
Speaker 2: after this quick break. Now back to Dan Ray live
Speaker 2: from the Window World Nights since Studios.
Speaker 6: I' WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2: We're all got to go back to Mark in Cambridge.
Speaker 2: And I'm told by Rob that Mark's audio is much better.
Speaker 4: Mark right ahead, I'm here.
Speaker 3: I'm here, Dan Harvey Stogate, thank you for taking my call.
Speaker 3: I'm a second time caller.
Speaker 2: Okay, congratulations, I'm gonna be blunt with you.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry to say this.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: Let me start up with you.
Speaker 3: Justice should have been served on that boat.
Speaker 2: What you're saying by that, you're saying the boat where
Speaker 2: we're bombing up two was captured. You would have preferred
Speaker 2: to the police had to have ended it right there?
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well that could have gotten a police officer in
Speaker 2: a lot of trouble in this country.
Speaker 5: But go ahead, right right.
Speaker 3: I'm just staying in general. But as for the supermax
Speaker 3: and you're talking about uh supermax prison. Yeah, to be
Speaker 3: honest with you, I myself turned my life. I am
Speaker 3: an ex con. I served time before. I've been into
Speaker 3: the d d U in Massachusetts, and like Harvey said,
Speaker 3: I mean twenty three hours a day lockdown in that DDU.
Speaker 3: All I got was a TV that I earned, a
Speaker 3: radio that I earned. No cosmetics, I mean, I mean
Speaker 3: no canteen. Only canteen you get. It's just the basic,
Speaker 3: the ortamate soap and you get reading materials. Do you
Speaker 3: go out to the yard five days a week, one hour?
Speaker 3: And when I was there, I was there in ninety
Speaker 3: eight and ninety four. I had an incident with with
Speaker 3: an officer not in major. Just you know, I salted him,
Speaker 3: and you know they gave me sixteen major to him.
Speaker 2: Go ahead, thank you for your being and so on,
Speaker 2: Just go ahead.
Speaker 3: Yep. When I was there, I was there with the
Speaker 3: worst of the worst. Even the one that we're not
Speaker 3: gonna say his name, the one that established attorney in
Speaker 3: Denham Court.
Speaker 5: He was there.
Speaker 3: He's the worst of the worst. But anyway, when I
Speaker 3: was there, it's just you know, being in there, like
Speaker 3: Harvey said, it has a mental impact. I mean, if
Speaker 3: you're not strong, I mean, it can really deteriorate you.
Speaker 3: You know, you're away from everybody, you're lockdown. Your food
Speaker 3: comes to here, they come on a tier, they open
Speaker 3: your wicket, they give you your food. And there was
Speaker 3: sometimes in the DDU guys with this, believe it or not,
Speaker 3: they kept the cage and they fought one inmate when
Speaker 3: in another inmate's cage and fought. I mean, but like I.
Speaker 2: Said that, how would that be a loud bark? I'm
Speaker 2: confused as by the guards.
Speaker 3: No, no, absolutely not. What it is that Let's say
Speaker 3: me and another prisoner had an issue and we say
Speaker 3: we go to the yard and the rays of blades
Speaker 3: and they used tools and they were cut the end
Speaker 3: of the one of the links to the fence, and
Speaker 3: they would pull the link apart, and then the time
Speaker 3: of officer realizes what's going on, the inmate would be
Speaker 3: in the other inmates case. That happened a couple of
Speaker 3: times up there at Walport. But like I said, I
Speaker 3: turned my life around. I've been, I've been, I've been.
Speaker 3: I've been out since twenty seventeen. I lost my mother
Speaker 3: since twenty seventeen, and I decided to live low bodily
Speaker 3: the only way to live. And I mean I mean,
Speaker 3: like I said, I mean back to the baller number two.
Speaker 3: I mean that's just my opinion. Justice shit, I've been
Speaker 3: served rated all.
Speaker 2: Right, Harvey, an interesting call. I have a variety of
Speaker 2: people who listen to this program. I'm happy that Mark
Speaker 2: has has gotten himself sprayed away. I'm sure you might
Speaker 2: like to make a comment to him as well.
Speaker 4: Well, there's nothing right somebody who's experienced to explain what
Speaker 4: prison wife is like.
Speaker 2: Absolutely well, Mark, Thank you so much.
Speaker 3: Dan, Like I said, I had a good attorney. Uh,
Speaker 3: he's very good, very good attorney. My kill tone. You
Speaker 3: probably know him. To let me see that's attorney.
Speaker 4: Right here.
Speaker 3: Benjamin Summon. Benjamin Smmon was on my case.
Speaker 2: Okay, I don't I don't know him. I'm Harvey Harvey May.
Speaker 2: But uh yeah, but if you if you had a
Speaker 2: good attorney and you got yourself squared away. How how
Speaker 2: old are you now? Mark? Let me tell me your age.
Speaker 3: I'm fifty five years old. I don't have time to
Speaker 3: do another thing.
Speaker 2: No, but you know what you got. You got at
Speaker 2: least thirty good years ahead of you, hopefully and hopefully
Speaker 2: have good health and uh and you you have some
Speaker 2: great times because you missed a lot of times when
Speaker 2: you're away. All right, Thank you, Mark.
Speaker 3: I wasn't that bad, but I made my mas and no,
Speaker 3: I love from them. Thank you Dan, Thank you Harvey
Speaker 3: for taking my car. I have a blast night.
Speaker 2: Write back at you, Mark. Thank you so much. It's amazing, Harvey,
Speaker 2: a different experience that different people have. This is real life.
Speaker 2: Let's get a couple more in here. I'll hold you
Speaker 2: until I'll let you go right after the ten thirty news,
Speaker 2: because at some point we will be hearing from the
Speaker 2: Vice president tonight. Their speeches have all gone very late
Speaker 2: this convention, amazingly so let me go to Rochelle in Weymouth. Rochelle,
Speaker 2: you're next with Harvey Silwergleke're right ahead, Michelle, Hi.
Speaker 6: Dan, Hi, Harvey. Thanks for taking my call. I'm in
Speaker 6: disagreement with Harvey on the death penalty, but not as
Speaker 6: much as some other people out there. I think that
Speaker 6: in cases where you have serial killers, terrorists who've killed
Speaker 6: multiple people, other mass murders, and those that have committed
Speaker 6: first degree murder on a cup or other law enforcement,
Speaker 6: I think those people deserve the death penalty. It's definitely
Speaker 6: an order in those cases. I think other murders and
Speaker 6: violent crimes should warrant long sentences or life without parole,
Speaker 6: depending on the crime. I believe that except in these
Speaker 6: extreme cases, I believe that all citizens should have a
Speaker 6: right to life from womb to tomb based on the
Speaker 6: fourteenth Amendment, but on the death penalty. If we do
Speaker 6: away with the death penalty and life in prison with
Speaker 6: no parole, I frankly don't see how we maintain law
Speaker 6: and order.
Speaker 2: Well, that's a broad a conversation, Michelle, and we can
Speaker 2: save that for another night. I got to get Harvey
Speaker 2: to focus on you've heard his argument. He is in
Speaker 2: ultimately opposed to death penalty because he does not want
Speaker 2: to see any innocent person executed because obviously, if an
Speaker 2: innocent person is executed, and he believes in one case
Speaker 2: that has.
Speaker 6: Been proven that it is, well, I oppose anyone innocent executed.
Speaker 6: I mean, you've got to make sure that you know
Speaker 6: without a doubtruct.
Speaker 2: But Harvey says, because it's it's a human human frailty.
Speaker 2: People make mistakes, and so that's that's his point that
Speaker 2: the system can never be perfect because the system that
Speaker 2: is run by.
Speaker 6: I know think some of the same people that want
Speaker 6: to do away with the death penalty want to do
Speaker 6: away with life in prison with no parle.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, Michelle Rachelle, First of all, that's a
Speaker 2: good observation. Harvey. Let me you know as well as
Speaker 2: I do, that in different states, there are different laws,
Speaker 2: and there is an effort. There's an efforts now in
Speaker 2: some cases where the death penalty has been eliminated that
Speaker 2: they have also said that life in prison without parole
Speaker 2: is cruel and unusual punishment. Would you go that far
Speaker 2: in some cases or.
Speaker 4: No, I would not go that far because I do
Speaker 4: believe that there are people who have to be separated
Speaker 4: from society because they are durable murderers. I mean, it's
Speaker 4: just the fact of human lives.
Speaker 2: Good, Okay, Rachelle Good points that that's we'll talk about
Speaker 2: that some night as well. Appreciate you call tonight, talk
Speaker 2: about that. Thank you very much. We're going to go
Speaker 2: next to Joe and Lynn. Joe your next one nights
Speaker 2: right ahead.
Speaker 4: We're taking my Thanks for taking my call, Harvey. I
Speaker 4: have big feelings. In some cases. I'm for the death penalty.
Speaker 4: I'm also for rehabilitation.
Speaker 5: Like Mark.
Speaker 4: I'm not uh, I think these terrorists. I think people
Speaker 4: like Mark. I know we disagree, but I agree with
Speaker 4: Daan on this. The death penalty. They should do it properly.
Speaker 4: Put them in a decompression chain. We just take out
Speaker 4: the oxygen so they don't suffer, and they're gone. We
Speaker 4: have too many people, bad or good that shouldn't be
Speaker 4: in prison. And I know in some prisons they try
Speaker 4: and rehabilitate, like in Sweeten, and sometimes you can. I
Speaker 4: don't think they should be mistreated in prison, but the
Speaker 4: ones that deserves the death penalty, and my view is
Speaker 4: they should get it. I just wanted to touch on.
Speaker 2: That, Okay, fair enough, Joe. You know again you understand
Speaker 2: Harvey's position. No sense of me having him to try
Speaker 2: to convince you, but I appreciate you taking the time.
Speaker 2: Thanks Joe.
Speaker 4: Thanks by bye.
Speaker 2: We'll let me get one more in here before the
Speaker 2: news of the bottom of the Arab Bob is in Waymouth. Bob,
Speaker 2: you were next on night side with Harvey Silverglate.
Speaker 1: How you doing, mister silver Gate? You know the bomber
Speaker 1: I realized. I appreciate he wo'd rather stay in the
Speaker 1: maximum prison than be executed in and you know, I
Speaker 1: don't think he has any rehabilitation. And also on his
Speaker 1: religious beliefs, which I think he's more frightened than anything else,
Speaker 1: that if you take innocent lives, that when you die,
Speaker 1: allah Is God will be displeased with him because of
Speaker 1: the atrocity you committed while you're on earth killing all
Speaker 1: those people. And he knows that when he does die,
Speaker 1: you're going to get tremendous punishment on him for his afterlife.
Speaker 1: I like to see him stay there. I like him penalty,
Speaker 1: go for it. I don't give stakes two or three years.
Speaker 1: He's going to suffer every single day because he knows
Speaker 1: he has to face his maker. And I think that's
Speaker 1: the best punishment.
Speaker 2: So so you you think I'm just trying to figure
Speaker 2: you think that life in prison so he could think
Speaker 2: about that every day.
Speaker 1: And no, no, no, he can think of it for
Speaker 1: a year and a half to get back.
Speaker 2: Oh so okay, so you you want to him? Uh,
Speaker 2: facing is what I think you're saying.
Speaker 3: Yes, I do.
Speaker 1: And also in that time, like you say, might take
Speaker 1: a year, two years, Well, he's going to suffer those
Speaker 1: two or three years because he'd rather stay in the
Speaker 1: in the maximum prison than than face Stephan because of
Speaker 1: his religious denalah. And that's that's what's fear. That's what
Speaker 1: he's scaring. And uh and I like that because he
Speaker 1: deserves it.
Speaker 2: Okay, Harvey, want to comment, that's a it's an interesting observation.
Speaker 2: I had not thought of that. Would you like to
Speaker 2: comment on what Bob has to say?
Speaker 1: Well, I I.
Speaker 4: What Bomb said did remind me of one other fact.
Speaker 4: He was acting under the very strong diffluence of his
Speaker 4: older brothers. And you can't quite eliminate that as a factor.
Speaker 4: The isn't he is facing at death time because his
Speaker 4: brother died in the shootout and they don't have the
Speaker 4: older brother to execute.
Speaker 2: Well, I think that he ran over the allegedly ran
Speaker 2: over the older brother, I believe, not not intentionally, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: I know that right, but ironically, not intentionally, but ironically.
Speaker 1: Ironically, yes, Dan, I mean, mister silbergate, you know this
Speaker 1: is all premeditated. The bomb and no, him and his
Speaker 1: brother going to kill innocent people. No, I an't going
Speaker 1: to kill him. He saw them, he saw these little kids,
Speaker 1: he saw them, the people watching the port. He know
Speaker 1: they were going to die be made and he didn't
Speaker 1: give a damn. And he was under no pressure from
Speaker 1: the brother. That's a lot of that's.
Speaker 2: Well, we don't know. We do know that the jury
Speaker 2: considered that at trial, and and that was rejected by
Speaker 2: the jury at the at the case and hole that
Speaker 2: is separate and apart from the from the determination of
Speaker 2: of the death penalty. But he was found guilty. That
Speaker 2: was raised I believe, Harvey. If I'm wrong, please correct
Speaker 2: me as a potential defense after we admitted that.
Speaker 4: Remember, there's no question if you have a death penalty.
Speaker 4: This case qualifies. That's not the issue. The issue is
Speaker 4: whether you should have the death penalty at all, Right, Bob.
Speaker 2: I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Can I say one more than you don't pull the
Speaker 1: switch out, Pull the switch and have a good night.
Speaker 2: Okay, thanks Bob, appreciate it all right, Harvey, way up
Speaker 2: on our newscast as always. Thank you so much for
Speaker 2: being available on this program, you know, as often as
Speaker 2: you are, and tonight I do owe you a call
Speaker 2: back on that email from earlier and earlier today, and
Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to having that author on the program
Speaker 2: at some point in the nine.
Speaker 4: You'll get the book tomorrow.
Speaker 2: Okay. I'm away from my residence, but I can. I
Speaker 2: can get access to it within a few days. If
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying, I'll explain tomorrow. Okay, thanks Harvey.
Speaker 4: Okay, thank you, my friend.
Speaker 2: Doctor. You lator a great job, Harvey Silverglade. There are
Speaker 2: none better in the courtroom or outside the courtroom, as
Speaker 2: far as I'm concerned. Now we are waiting Kamala Harris,
Speaker 2: who will be basically accepting her acceptance speech. But it
Speaker 2: should be a presentation of what she intends to do
Speaker 2: to be interesting, how specific she may or may not get.
Speaker 2: We're going to take a quick newscast and then within
Speaker 2: a few minutes, if you'd like to jump on board.
Speaker 2: We're going to continue with this conversation until she takes
Speaker 2: the podium, so I can't guarantee i'll get you on
Speaker 2: we can. We can try six one, seven, two, five,
Speaker 2: four ten thirty six one seven, nine, three, one ten
Speaker 2: thirty Dial quickly and we can talk about your positions
Speaker 2: on whether or not Barber number two should get the
Speaker 2: death penalty. You heard my position, you know my position.
Speaker 2: You understand my position. You heard Harvey's position. I'd love
Speaker 2: to get a few of you to call in right
Speaker 2: now as we basically await the appearance of Vice President
Speaker 2: Harris