Speaker 1: Hi, Billy cunning Him the Great American. Coming up later,
Speaker 1: of course is Reds Baseball. The Twinkies are in town.
Speaker 1: Red's one last night, Another big game tonight that tomorrow
Speaker 1: business special. Also in about one hour, Countie Pillach will
Speaker 1: be here, the Hemley County Prosecutor. But joining us now
Speaker 1: is is Sarah Herringer, and she's the widow of Patrick
Speaker 1: who was murdered on her about June the fourth. And Sarah,
Speaker 1: first of all, how you doing.
Speaker 2: I am, I'm highly functional and hanging in there.
Speaker 1: And you have your.
Speaker 2: Bunny, Yeah, yep. I've got my therapy dog Ted. He's
Speaker 2: sleeping right now at my feet. So let's go back
Speaker 2: in time.
Speaker 1: When did you meet Patrick?
Speaker 2: I met Patrick when I first saw him on the streets.
Speaker 2: I met him in Colorado Springs, which is where I'm
Speaker 2: initially from, and he was stationed in the military there.
Speaker 2: And it was about twenty eleven and I saw him
Speaker 2: and I pointed out to a friend and I said,
Speaker 2: I'm going to marry that man.
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, yes, and you were you were how old?
Speaker 1: About twenty twenty five?
Speaker 2: I was about twenty five, yep.
Speaker 1: And you saw Patrick and said, yeah, that's it. That's it. Wow,
Speaker 1: what was it about him?
Speaker 3: He?
Speaker 2: I mean, anyone who knew him would say, he just
Speaker 2: has this force that draws you in. He's very stands
Speaker 2: out in a crowd, has a presence about him. And
Speaker 2: I just saw him and it was truly love at
Speaker 2: first sight. And I know that's really cheesy, but it's
Speaker 2: one hundred.
Speaker 1: Percent of tame. Sometimes it happens, it does. Yeah, as
Speaker 1: far as his military service, what can you tell me
Speaker 1: about Pat's sacrifice for the nation?
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a two bronze Star award also combat I had.
Speaker 2: You know, he didn't really talk a whole lot about
Speaker 2: all of the accolades and awards that he had because
Speaker 2: he knew that other people's sacrifice was greater than his.
Speaker 2: He was deployed twice. He came home alive, many of
Speaker 2: his friends did not. And in the past week, you know,
Speaker 2: going through this process, I had reached out to one
Speaker 2: of his buddies and was like, just, you know, out
Speaker 2: of curiosity, what has he been awarded with? And he
Speaker 2: sent me about ten different things that he had and
Speaker 2: was very successful. He was an army captain and really
Speaker 2: loved serving and when it was time to move on,
Speaker 2: he wanted to be a business owner and serve a
Speaker 2: community and just take it from government into private.
Speaker 1: What took you from Colorado Springs to Cincinnati.
Speaker 2: He's a Cincinnati boy and I did not know this,
Speaker 2: But if you're from here, you come back and you
Speaker 2: bring someone with you. That's how people are, like Colorado,
Speaker 2: why are you here? And honestly, I have family from
Speaker 2: the Midwest. They're more so Dayton, Ohio. I had never
Speaker 2: been to Cincinnati, though, and when I first started dating him,
Speaker 2: we had came back and I was like, Cincinnati's got
Speaker 2: some things going on. I like that. And when he
Speaker 2: separated from the military, we took a brief stint in
Speaker 2: New York City. He was a consultant for Ernst and Young.
Speaker 2: I was doing a global events coordination for Goldman Sachs.
Speaker 2: I was a project manager back in the day with
Speaker 2: our corporate world, and he really it wasn't fulfilling and
Speaker 2: he wanted to open a business. He wanted to open
Speaker 2: a gym because health and fitness, mental health, physical health
Speaker 2: is very important to us. And he knew that it
Speaker 2: was going to be an investment in the community and
Speaker 2: he wanted to do that back at home. And so
Speaker 2: we moved here in the end of twenty fourteen, and
Speaker 2: in twenty fifteen we opened up which is now Findly
Speaker 2: Movement and we've had that business for the last ten years,
Speaker 2: just changing lives and giving people a place where they
Speaker 2: can come every single day and whatever it is for
Speaker 2: them work on their health, to have a safe space.
Speaker 1: Good OTR extent you and Patrick.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, I mean the community support has been huge
Speaker 2: and we've really we've enjoyed our time being there up
Speaker 2: until till as of late.
Speaker 1: And you knew the neighbors, they knew you place to go.
Speaker 1: You had three or four hundred clients come there. And
Speaker 1: I don't do a lot of it. Maybe I should
Speaker 1: work out, I play golf, but nonetheless a lot of
Speaker 1: people go to Patrick, go to gyms and work out.
Speaker 1: So the goal was to operate a business in the community,
Speaker 1: be part of the community. Yes, to be a positive
Speaker 1: force for good and let's face it, a part that
Speaker 1: needs some help. OTR has got a bad RepA you
Speaker 1: may not recall about in the year two thousand and
Speaker 1: two thousand and one, it looked like Bay Root.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I set the city on fire, right right, Yeah,
Speaker 4: I walked up Vine Street with Charlie Lucan several times
Speaker 4: it looked like Bay Root store fronts by building for
Speaker 4: a dollar. Yeah, and that community changed because people like
Speaker 4: you and Patrick.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, it was very important to us that we lived
Speaker 2: and worked in the community that we wanted to serve.
Speaker 2: We didn't want to be dry in from someplace else.
Speaker 2: We wanted to really have, you know, powerful impact and
Speaker 2: change in the area that we were in.
Speaker 1: At that night, the prosecutors asked you not to talk
Speaker 1: particularly about the circumstances, true, because there may be a
Speaker 1: testimony by you in court and you don't want different
Speaker 1: versions of the same set of facts. I'm sure you
Speaker 1: have locked in your mind what happened, but many school
Speaker 1: things might be remembered differently. But did you know Mordecai
Speaker 1: Black have any interaction we ever see him on the
Speaker 1: street before, any connection with him whatsoever.
Speaker 2: No, not at all, and to my understanding, not Patrick either.
Speaker 2: He was very friendly with everyone, was never, you know,
Speaker 2: suspicious or didn't was very much so lived in the community.
Speaker 2: We knew people on the street corners, We talked to them,
Speaker 2: knew their names, interacted with them. And that is a
Speaker 2: question that I have been asked, and I nothing out
Speaker 2: of the blue, no connection whatsoever with this.
Speaker 1: Man when the event took place. Of course, us on
Speaker 1: there the next day and there was reports that a
Speaker 1: white woman I assume you was put in handcuffs by
Speaker 1: the police. Yes, And what impact did that have?
Speaker 2: Well, I when I look back now, and you know,
Speaker 2: I do think context is everything, and if the system
Speaker 2: was set up differently, yes, I think victims should probably
Speaker 2: be taken to a psych word in that situation, and
Speaker 2: that's really probably what should have happened to me. I do, though,
Speaker 2: appreciate the policing that happened because Patrick is the victim,
Speaker 2: and when they entered the scene, Mordecai Black had already fled.
Speaker 2: There was no one there but my sister and I,
Speaker 2: and they immediately were working for Patrick and advocating for him,
Speaker 2: and in my state of shock, was not very easy
Speaker 2: to get along with. I had seen too many movies
Speaker 2: and thought I would be riding with him in the
Speaker 2: ambulance and that was not the case. And so in hindsight,
Speaker 2: you know, no, I obviously it's part of that where
Speaker 2: I wish that had never happened. And I don't hold
Speaker 2: anything against them though, because I know that what they
Speaker 2: were doing was making sure that from the very beginning
Speaker 2: that they were taking this seriously and doing their job
Speaker 2: and doing what they needed to do.
Speaker 1: So do you this was a real horror movie and
Speaker 1: it was happening.
Speaker 2: To you, absolutely absolutely?
Speaker 1: How long were you in handcuffs.
Speaker 2: For a while? And again they they did their due
Speaker 2: diligence with questioning and I was released later that afternoon, and.
Speaker 1: So you were locked up several hours?
Speaker 2: Yes, why, I don't exactly know, you know, I'm not
Speaker 2: I'm not on the inside in that and I but
Speaker 2: again likely because I was the number one suspect, and
Speaker 2: a lot of these such situations, you can it's not
Speaker 2: uncommon to have spouse or next of kin be the
Speaker 2: person who has done something like this. And uh, I also,
Speaker 2: you know, refused to speak to them until my lawyer arrived,
Speaker 2: and that that took a little bit.
Speaker 1: And you told me off there. Of course you can't
Speaker 1: talk about the particulars, but you did. You did want
Speaker 1: to say that Patrick died defending you.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I was attacked myself and he he protected me,
Speaker 2: and that's that's how he he died. And one of
Speaker 2: the things that really stands out from that night, I
Speaker 2: mean many, many details, but uh. The last words that
Speaker 2: he kept saying was stay fighting, stay fighting. The man
Speaker 2: had Mordecai Black had uh left and all the way
Speaker 2: to the very last moment, he made sure that I
Speaker 2: was protected and I was safe.
Speaker 1: And Patrick died. Yes, have you come to grips with
Speaker 1: that yet?
Speaker 2: I don't think so. It's there are very strange moments
Speaker 2: in the day where nothing, it doesn't feel real again,
Speaker 2: highly functioning and able to do a lot, I feel
Speaker 2: that overnight, you know, my entire world has shattered and
Speaker 2: split and have entirely different priorities and focuses that I
Speaker 2: had before that. I am taking care of myself doing
Speaker 2: everything that you know again me. I'm also a holistic
Speaker 2: health practitioner and health and life coach and anything that
Speaker 2: I advice that I would give anyone in this situation
Speaker 2: on grief and trauma and self regulation and how to
Speaker 2: move through that or all of the steps that I'm taking.
Speaker 2: But no, it's it's moment by moment and day by
Speaker 2: day because I can't think of six months, a year,
Speaker 2: et cetera down the road without him. That's far too
Speaker 2: overwhelming for me right now.
Speaker 1: And Sarah, you know, Patrick would want you to continue.
Speaker 1: He would want you to live your life, yes, and
Speaker 1: to love and to enjoy your friends and family. He'd
Speaker 1: want you to continue the.
Speaker 2: Business, absolutely, and he made sure of that, you know.
Speaker 2: And that's you know, when I look through all of this,
Speaker 2: and there's so many you can kill yourself with asking
Speaker 2: why why this? Why us? Why now? Why? Him? And
Speaker 2: I don't have those answers, but I know that he
Speaker 2: made sure that I was still here.
Speaker 1: Some have said this is a Kyle Plush moment. That
Speaker 1: was the boy at seven Hills who was upside down
Speaker 1: in the backseat of a van and he was calling
Speaker 1: nine one one and kind of blew off a little bit,
Speaker 1: and then the system changed. What is your mission now
Speaker 1: with the sitting and with the state?
Speaker 2: My mission now is to get Cincinnati a place where
Speaker 2: their residents are safe, because they're not. And that is
Speaker 2: an illusion that I was living under. And of course,
Speaker 2: when the veil's very thin, and when it doesn't affect you,
Speaker 2: it's pretty easy to fall for optics or to take
Speaker 2: things at face value, or you know, even I just
Speaker 2: felt so safe with him because of the type of
Speaker 2: man of who my husband is just a very physical
Speaker 2: specimen he's very intimidating looking. He's trained in hand to
Speaker 2: hand combat obviously, you know, Army military veteran, and knowing
Speaker 2: what I know now and that is something that I
Speaker 2: absolutely cannot stay silent about. The city needs to be
Speaker 2: cleaned up. There's been ten murders in the last fourteen days,
Speaker 2: and how is anyone safe? How is that acceptable? And
Speaker 2: there is also an underserved population and demographic who doesn't
Speaker 2: have the resources, who doesn't have the community, who doesn't
Speaker 2: have the support. My community is full of highly highly
Speaker 2: skilled individuals that their help is what I will need
Speaker 2: in order to affect change. I can't do this alone,
Speaker 2: and there are so many people who don't have access
Speaker 2: to that, and so I do feel very strongly this
Speaker 2: is our community. This is who we wanted to serve
Speaker 2: Patrick as a protector, and that is what I'm on
Speaker 2: a mission to do. You're not leaving, No, I'm not leaving.
Speaker 2: I'm staying.
Speaker 1: You met with the mayor, you met with the prosecutor.
Speaker 1: Let's talk first about the mayor. Now, I have a
Speaker 1: social posting you made about the mayor. I have to
Speaker 1: have peer of all, what did you say to him
Speaker 1: and what did he say to you.
Speaker 2: Very sorry, but I don't think condolences do enough in
Speaker 2: this kind of situation. Anyone else can be sorry, people
Speaker 2: who knew him, people who loved him, people who love us.
Speaker 2: That's an acceptable response, but from the leadership who's been
Speaker 2: elected to protect us and keep us safe, grief and
Speaker 2: the after effect is not okay. And he did not know,
Speaker 2: for instance, that the state was not in communication with
Speaker 2: local law enforcement, and that's your job to know those things.
Speaker 2: So that's you know, negligence as far as I'm concerned.
Speaker 2: You don't get to have an escape when it comes
Speaker 2: to that, or an excuse or an out. And you know,
Speaker 2: he did offer support, saying that he would do anything
Speaker 2: to change legislation, and I hope that that is something
Speaker 2: that we can count on him for because again, he
Speaker 2: is a politician in a place of that kind of
Speaker 2: leadership and I am not, and I will need resources. However,
Speaker 2: the actions that he takes moving forward, that is what
Speaker 2: we need to see. Results are going to be the
Speaker 2: thing that speaks right now, not words, and there needs
Speaker 2: to be you know, short of a reckoning, but really
Speaker 2: quite that when it comes to cleaning up the streets
Speaker 2: of Cincinnati.
Speaker 1: So Mordecai Black was led out after about ten years.
Speaker 1: I think your lawyer Todd mcmercury who's here, said that
Speaker 1: Mordecai Black was locked up like nineteen in the last
Speaker 1: twenty years, correct, So this was an extremely dangerous person. Yes,
Speaker 1: and the Adult Parole Authority had ordered him wear an
Speaker 1: ankle monitor. He cut it off in February and of
Speaker 1: course nobody knew locally that was going. There's no communication
Speaker 1: between the APA, No Pearl Authority and local police none.
Speaker 2: Well, the parole Authority said, we put a warrant in
Speaker 2: the system, the system, so if he had pulled it
Speaker 2: up then you would have seen that. And then we
Speaker 2: find out that on May fifteenth he is the suspect.
Speaker 2: He's identified as the person who does a break in
Speaker 2: and attempted robbery and these people knew who he was,
Speaker 2: to my understanding, and again no alarm was sounded, nothing
Speaker 2: was could have then pulled it up and looked. So
Speaker 2: the system is broken and it's failing on multiple levels.
Speaker 2: I don't think you can just point to one thing,
Speaker 2: but there has to be a total reform from start
Speaker 2: to finish on how these type of things are communicated,
Speaker 2: who's notified and what actions are taken in order to
Speaker 2: apprehend someone like him.
Speaker 1: The system was noticed in May cut off, something's going
Speaker 1: to go. System was notified Burglary, that's the guy who
Speaker 1: did it. They took a report. Police took a report
Speaker 1: and said, okay, yep, that's the guy. No one at
Speaker 1: that point said, is that the guy who cut off
Speaker 1: his bracelet. No connection was made there. So this is
Speaker 1: a guy that's a career criminal who's going to kill somebody. Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe he has already other than Patrick, We're not sure.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised. And the whole system said, well,
Speaker 1: we're not going to bother with it until something like
Speaker 1: this happens, correct and so and then you also had
Speaker 1: comments about your meeting with the prosecutor Conic Pillach. He's
Speaker 1: going to be hearing about forty five minutes, and how
Speaker 1: did that go.
Speaker 2: They they're very supportive. They you know, they want to
Speaker 2: see justice done, and the team that is on this
Speaker 2: is exceptional. I do have concerns about the kind of
Speaker 2: message they're signaling with sentencing. Though this man expects life
Speaker 2: in prison. He's been he's spent his life in prison,
Speaker 2: and every single time he's gotten out he has immediately
Speaker 2: gone and done something more and more aggressive. He's always
Speaker 2: escalated every time he's been released. And for one, you're
Speaker 2: not sending a message to violent criminals when you feed them,
Speaker 2: house them, give them a TV, a peer support group,
Speaker 2: a gym for the rest of their life. When they
Speaker 2: expect that that's their life, that's all they know. There
Speaker 2: has to be an accountability and something that is far
Speaker 2: more severe in order to start deterring these people and
Speaker 2: so many people who they Yes, we want to see
Speaker 2: communities rehabilitated. However, most of us can't even imagine thinking
Speaker 2: the way these kind of people think, and so it
Speaker 2: sounds like a vengeance move or something that's highly aggressive
Speaker 2: or or coming from a place of my anger and grief.
Speaker 2: But really what it is is it's sending a message
Speaker 2: to people who think, like Mordecai Black, you probably shouldn't
Speaker 2: be doing that, because there's going to be a true
Speaker 2: consequence for if you do and when you do.
Speaker 1: In this case, the prosecutors not seeking the death penalty.
Speaker 1: In another case with Rodney Hinton, who's purposely killed Larry Henderson,
Speaker 1: the police officer, she is seeking the death penalty. Have
Speaker 1: you communicated with her your displeasure with that idea, Yes,
Speaker 1: oh is the reaction.
Speaker 2: There hasn't really been much of of a statement. One
Speaker 2: of the things that we have heard from the office,
Speaker 2: not necessarily Connie herself, is that when you seek the
Speaker 2: death penalty, there are a lot of processes of appeals
Speaker 2: and it could be a you know, an average and
Speaker 2: this is again something I learned, and when you're looking
Speaker 2: at a murder trial, those can take on average two years,
Speaker 2: maybe even more, and the thought of well through the
Speaker 2: appeal process it could take fifteen years or so. And
Speaker 2: for me, it's like, well, nothing is going to bring
Speaker 2: Patrick's life back, Nothing is going to fix that, nothing
Speaker 2: is going to rectify that. However, if he is in
Speaker 2: this process knowing at the end of it because he
Speaker 2: will be found guilty, I do know that the prosecutors
Speaker 2: are exceptional. Who is on this case at least leaders
Speaker 2: is incredible, and it's worth that to me in order
Speaker 2: to have the kind of change, Because we can't fix anything.
Speaker 2: The only thing that we can do moving forward is
Speaker 2: how do we change how do we make sure this
Speaker 2: doesn't happen to someone else.
Speaker 1: As far as the so called politics of the small
Speaker 1: p you had a posting about the mayor showing up
Speaker 1: at a particular kind of a rally, but not not
Speaker 1: on behalf of many of the victims. Every time I
Speaker 1: hear something from a politician, it's like crimes down, crimes down,
Speaker 1: pat myself on the back, life is good. That's not
Speaker 1: the case.
Speaker 2: No, And I, an independent data analyst, has looked over
Speaker 2: all of the public information and was the one who
Speaker 2: sent those graphs out. And crime is up, it is
Speaker 2: not down. And so when you have and that's the
Speaker 2: thing that I even said, like anyone who's taken a
Speaker 2: statistics class, so you always know you beat the numbers
Speaker 2: to death till you get the story that you want.
Speaker 2: That's what they're good at doing, and that needs to
Speaker 2: be exposed. People need to know what kind of people
Speaker 2: are currently in office and what they're willing to do.
Speaker 2: And they're willing to risk your life in order to
Speaker 2: have optics.
Speaker 1: Yes, there was video of Black walking around before the
Speaker 1: murder with a knife in his hands, up and down OTR.
Speaker 1: I would assume looking for a victim and you just
Speaker 1: your family just happened to be in his way. I
Speaker 1: mean to have one police officer on duty at three
Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning between the Ohio River and North
Speaker 1: otr It's kind of ridiculous, isn't it.
Speaker 2: It's absolutely ridiculous. And you know the chief of police
Speaker 2: said when we met with her, Terry and Aftab at
Speaker 2: the same time, the mayor at the same time. She
Speaker 2: said she went off of data, and that's what they
Speaker 2: pride themselves on. Data shows that it's enough. And I
Speaker 2: would have to say, why don't you look at just
Speaker 2: the bloodbath that's happened in your city in the last
Speaker 2: two weeks, and you tell me that your data tells
Speaker 2: you that this city is safe enough. Criminals do not
Speaker 2: fear the current police force that are out on the streets.
Speaker 2: They're not. There's no deterrent whatsoever. And that is not
Speaker 2: more brutally obvious to anyone other than me. Right now,
Speaker 2: I would.
Speaker 1: Say, can you hang around for a couple of minutes?
Speaker 2: Absolutely?
Speaker 1: Can you are lawyers here? Let's continue with more. Bill
Speaker 1: Cunningham News Radio seven hundred WW in the studio with
Speaker 1: me now is the widow of Patrick Herringer, which is Sarah.
Speaker 1: I never thought you'd ever hear the word widow, would you.
Speaker 4: Now?
Speaker 2: It's a title. I'm still getting used to how does
Speaker 2: it hit you hard? I would rather it be wife.
Speaker 1: As far as the future, we talked a little bit
Speaker 1: off the air and your lawyers here about what they
Speaker 1: can do, and that's uncertain in the future. But as
Speaker 1: far as the police, I have a note here TECH
Speaker 1: sent to me from an officer who said, how many
Speaker 1: officers are on duty? How many on that day? The
Speaker 1: answer is, I think one or less and at one
Speaker 1: point is your goal to have one thing happening in
Speaker 1: the city now is that they're offering these opportunities for
Speaker 1: suburban cops anywhere in Ohio who come to Cincinnati and
Speaker 1: it won't take a year, year and a half. It's
Speaker 1: going to take six months. They also have another class
Speaker 1: going through that may take a year, year and a half.
Speaker 1: Could that be a positive situation to have a lot
Speaker 1: more police a lot more absolutely?
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The lateral class of having officers come in who are
Speaker 2: just relocating to Cincinnati, you do. You need a much
Speaker 2: stronger police presence. And I think in addition to that,
Speaker 2: they should be proactively going out and who has current
Speaker 2: arrest warrants that are out there that are just out
Speaker 2: on the streets. That's another thing that they could also
Speaker 2: be proactively doing. But yeah, I would love to see
Speaker 2: more police presence. And that's another entire group of people
Speaker 2: to consider as well. How is it safe for them?
Speaker 2: How right? And if you are that officer, how confident
Speaker 2: do you feel in apprehending or going out and looking
Speaker 2: for suspects or even patrolling when you know that you're
Speaker 2: minutes away from backup in anyone coming to your aid
Speaker 2: as well, they're at risk.
Speaker 1: Veterans have told me in the ten twenty years ago
Speaker 1: they have a lineup. So okay, if not much going on,
Speaker 1: take a handful of Warrens. We're looking for these six guys.
Speaker 1: If you have extra time, go find these guys. That
Speaker 1: doesn't happen anymore. In fact, there's speed bumps on Madison Road.
Speaker 1: You used to have law enforcement with speed. Now they
Speaker 1: don't do that. They want a passive stand down, don't
Speaker 1: cause problems police as opposed to being active to go
Speaker 1: unfind people. And perfect example is Mordecai Black. You should
Speaker 1: have been located and there was no no one looking
Speaker 1: for him. Even after you've identified in a burglary a
Speaker 1: few weeks before as the definite person, nobody went to
Speaker 1: see him. Is that a police problem or is that
Speaker 1: a politician problem.
Speaker 2: I think that's a politician problem. I think, you know,
Speaker 2: the police, they need to feel supported in order to
Speaker 2: do their jobs. And I met with the police union
Speaker 2: last week and they don't feel that they are afraid
Speaker 2: of being used for a pawn in political gain. And
Speaker 2: optics is even down to having armored vehicles because they
Speaker 2: think that the citizens of Cincinnati are too fragile to
Speaker 2: handle a quote unquote militant optics when it comes from police.
Speaker 2: But the best kind of policing is proactive. If you
Speaker 2: can have a presence and you are out there serving
Speaker 2: the community, which is that's what they are, they're public servants.
Speaker 2: Then you have people who are second guessing what kind
Speaker 2: of actions do I take? You're not really what is
Speaker 2: it to have someone if you're really good at cleaning
Speaker 2: up messes? You know, if we can prevent those things
Speaker 2: with more of a presence, I think that is the
Speaker 2: benefit and we'll serve Cincinnati and the citizens of it nicely.
Speaker 1: That is the sense now in Cincinnati, we talked to
Speaker 1: cops Ken Kob Dan Hill's men and the men and
Speaker 1: women in blue. They're going to tell you, look, we're
Speaker 1: not going to put ourselves at risk because we're not
Speaker 1: going to be backed up. We're going to be sued.
Speaker 1: Qualified immunity maybe taken away soon by the state of Ohio,
Speaker 1: which means if you're a cop, unless you intentionally commit
Speaker 1: an act, how many negligent act acts to it does
Speaker 1: a cop commit? I'd say all the time. Cops make mistakes.
Speaker 1: So if you're sued constantly for a negligent act, that
Speaker 1: means you're not going to be proactive. And they need
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty more cops and need it now
Speaker 1: and need a mentality that we're going to be We're
Speaker 1: going to be aggressive to the few number of people
Speaker 1: committing disproportion crimes in this city.
Speaker 2: Exactly, and I think that is is it? You know
Speaker 2: they have ninety police retiring every year. When you have
Speaker 2: a class a full class at sixty, they haven't had that,
Speaker 2: and so we do need a stronger police presence and
Speaker 2: force for sure, all right.
Speaker 1: Todd m mcmurtries here also the attorney, well, what are
Speaker 1: you looking at in the future because it's very early,
Speaker 1: it's only been about twelve days since has occurred. But
Speaker 1: as an attorney, a great note to what are you
Speaker 1: who you're looking at in a civil sense of anyone well, Bill, as.
Speaker 3: You know, suing a city Cincinnati, or suing the Department
Speaker 3: of Corrections for their mistakes, which are you know, many
Speaker 3: is a challenge. We've been focused you know, here in
Speaker 3: the early stages and working with the least leaders and
Speaker 3: Chris Slips and the prosecutor's office to get them everything
Speaker 3: that they need. So now I'll turn my attention to
Speaker 3: what the civil liability might be. But you know, we're
Speaker 3: going to turn over the stones and find out what
Speaker 3: we can to look for any parties are responsible for
Speaker 3: this Because I knew Patrick, I've known Sarah, my wife
Speaker 3: and I are good friends with him. He was a
Speaker 3: wonderful person and he really deserves all the justice he
Speaker 3: can get, be it civil or criminal.
Speaker 1: That's down the road. You don't know. That'll take anywhere
Speaker 1: from three to five years from this point.
Speaker 3: Well, I think it's going to take me, you know,
Speaker 3: a couple of months to do the research and get
Speaker 3: all the facts and data together to see if if
Speaker 3: there is any avenue for civil liability, you know, can
Speaker 3: they be soon?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 3: Is it a court of claims case? Is it a
Speaker 3: case that's that's brought in the common pleas. You know,
Speaker 3: those are the things I've got to kind of piece through.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you're committed to all your cases, but this
Speaker 1: one to you a special it is.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's very personal that they're friends of ours.
Speaker 3: You know, I played golf with Patrick. The guy could
Speaker 3: drive a ball three hundred yards. It was insane. He
Speaker 3: was a flat belly. Yeah, flat belly's gonna hit the ball.
Speaker 3: Yeah he was, he was. He was a bad fellow
Speaker 3: there with a golf stick. So yeah, personal friends. And
Speaker 3: we've we've my wife and Iron invested in this whole
Speaker 3: thing very personally.
Speaker 1: Well, this morning, Sarah, when Mordecai black Spawn was increased
Speaker 1: by Judge Winkler.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and I wasn't the only one there. I had
Speaker 2: about fifty to sixty of our community members were also
Speaker 2: there this standing room only they were not all of
Speaker 2: us fit inside of the courtroom. And that really when
Speaker 2: we are looking at moving forward and what it's going
Speaker 2: to take, having that community from Finley movement, but also
Speaker 2: just the city itself showing up and supporting in this
Speaker 2: cause because it's for them.
Speaker 1: You know, you know what the politicians are after, which
Speaker 1: is kind of you to go away. Oh, absolutely, quiet down, Yes,
Speaker 1: know your role, shut your mouth. Yes, we're going to
Speaker 1: run for reelection. Happy days, you're here again. Look at
Speaker 1: all the good stuff we've done. How would you respond
Speaker 1: to that?
Speaker 2: Well, I have nothing to lose anymore. The worst thing
Speaker 2: that I could ever imagine for my life has already happened.
Speaker 2: And one of those things is very odd, sincey on
Speaker 2: the back side of it is I'm not afraid anymore,
Speaker 2: and they can't take anything from me, and I don't
Speaker 2: want anything other than justice and for whatever kind of
Speaker 2: reform that needs to happen to make sure this doesn't
Speaker 2: happen again.
Speaker 1: Well, he's satisfied with the one action taken. The Adult
Speaker 1: Pearl authority is now going to notify the last known address.
Speaker 1: Of course, many of these individuals locked up for ten years.
Speaker 1: They don't have a home address. I don't know what
Speaker 1: to do, but in this case, certainly after the burglary,
Speaker 1: there should have been red sirens going off. This is
Speaker 1: the guy that cut it off, cut off his bracelet.
Speaker 1: He's been out. Nineteen years of his life has been
Speaker 1: in prison. Hey doesn't care, and he's walking around OTR
Speaker 1: with a butcher knife. We're going to go find this guy,
Speaker 1: And what do the cops tell you, Like Ken Kober
Speaker 1: when you say, why weren't you looking for him?
Speaker 2: It truly is. They are not bodies that communicate, and
Speaker 2: so the first thing is being able to get the
Speaker 2: state level, the parole board speaking with local authorities. To me,
Speaker 2: that is a huge I mean that the citizens of
Speaker 2: Cincinnati are exposed by that law first and foremost. That
Speaker 2: needs to be taken care of. When someone who's a
Speaker 2: violent ultra violent criminal has gone a wall, local law
Speaker 2: enforcement needs to know about that. They need to be notified.
Speaker 2: Other than there, if you happen to find the slip
Speaker 2: of paper in the system, then you're notified. They need
Speaker 2: to be directly contacted and also have the resources to
Speaker 2: go and apprehend someone like that.
Speaker 1: And they don't have. The cops will tell you they
Speaker 1: do not feel they have backup, whether it's city Hall
Speaker 1: or fellow men and women in blue, they don't have backup,
Speaker 1: correct And they told you that, right, yes, why don't
Speaker 1: they have backup? Why what's the reason?
Speaker 2: Well, anymore, policing is not the honorable career that it
Speaker 2: used to be, and they are not even supported by
Speaker 2: the community. They serve as much anymore. And you know
Speaker 2: that is where you slip into some political sides. I
Speaker 2: think a little bit more, But I don't think public
Speaker 2: safety should ever be a come down to a Democrat Republican.
Speaker 2: We need police and any type of problem that you
Speaker 2: have when it discusses, you know, safe policing, it's better
Speaker 2: to be talking about those problems than obviously the issues
Speaker 2: that a community is going to have without police.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: And so the cops need to be the police need
Speaker 2: to be supported, they need to have funds, they need
Speaker 2: to have bodies, they need to have people in leadership
Speaker 2: within the police themselves who are also not controlled by politicians,
Speaker 2: who are supporting the people. And of course you want
Speaker 2: to you want to take every type of action they have.
Speaker 2: You want to make sure that they are are doing
Speaker 2: it well. But that happens most of the time. They're
Speaker 2: not really in a place. So to my own understanding,
Speaker 2: what I have been told is that they do not
Speaker 2: feel supported to take proactive measures. And that's also something
Speaker 2: that really needs to change.
Speaker 1: And I think the decision mc connie Pilate's not to
Speaker 1: indict that police officer was a positive and there was
Speaker 1: two seconds that transpired from the time the officer said
Speaker 1: he's got a gun, gun, gun, until the officer had
Speaker 1: to decide to shoot and not shoot, and he had
Speaker 1: a gun, he did have a gun. It takes split
Speaker 1: second to go this way. And if that had gone
Speaker 1: the other way. If you listen to the finand Ruckers
Speaker 1: or the civil attorneys of this world saying you want
Speaker 1: to grand jury indict the police, what would that do
Speaker 1: to law enforcement? If comps are indicted in that case,
Speaker 1: they're going to say even more, I'm not doing this anymore.
Speaker 1: I'm done, right. They're people, their husbands and mothers and fathers.
Speaker 2: They want to go home, yes, yes, and they again
Speaker 2: they need to be safe. These are real humans and.
Speaker 1: They they're people. Yes, they're keep people.
Speaker 2: Yes, and they've signed up to service and they put
Speaker 2: their life on the line because they are the ones
Speaker 2: who are there to be able to apprehend criminals and
Speaker 2: people who want to who live to enact violence on
Speaker 2: the community. And those are things that you know, you
Speaker 2: and I don't have that mindset. We don't have that.
Speaker 2: We can't get into the mind of Mordecai Black or
Speaker 2: people like that. But those people do exist, and that
Speaker 2: is the reality so to pretend like it's not and
Speaker 2: to also be have a current judicial system that is
Speaker 2: leaning more towards the criminals and taking and empathizing more
Speaker 2: with them versus the people who they are elected by
Speaker 2: to protect is something that needs to be revealed and exposed.
Speaker 1: You know, a shot spotter says, there's about twenty thousand
Speaker 1: shots fired in the city of Cincinnati this year. Imagine
Speaker 1: twenty thousand bullets flying around the city.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they've got to go somewhere.
Speaker 1: They got to go, and I only hit about five
Speaker 1: hundred people, which is amazing, But that's a problem. There's
Speaker 1: twenty thousand shots fired. And we're talking about seven or
Speaker 1: eight zip codes. Not talking from Salor Park out to
Speaker 1: Mount Washington. We're talking about this city. Corps is twenty
Speaker 1: thousand shots fire. Those who lived there understand.
Speaker 2: That, Yes, absolutely, that was even you know, something a
Speaker 2: concern that we had had. We had noticed an uptick
Speaker 2: in shots and had even had a couple of incidences
Speaker 2: where the police were called for like a breaking and
Speaker 2: entering or not not a home but a robbery of
Speaker 2: someone who is working on our house in their car.
Speaker 2: And so it's you know, the people who live down
Speaker 2: there again, their voices are not being heard. They're also
Speaker 2: fed up. They don't want to live in that They
Speaker 2: want to be able to live in a safe community.
Speaker 2: They are business owners, They're people who are dedicated to
Speaker 2: the city of Cincinnati, and the leadership of this city
Speaker 2: needs to do right by them, and they need to
Speaker 2: do better.
Speaker 1: I'm sure Sarah, her husband looking from down to you,
Speaker 1: would be very proud of you right now, Patrick would
Speaker 1: be so proud.
Speaker 2: Channeling him every step of the way.
Speaker 1: Thank you for coming in. Coming up in about ten
Speaker 1: or fifteen minutes is Connie Pillage, and I will ask
Speaker 1: her about My first question will be relative to the
Speaker 1: death penalty in one case and not the other, plus
Speaker 1: other matters. But Sarah, congratulations on the life you're now leading.
Speaker 2: Good luck to you, Thank you, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: Let's continue with more. Bill Cunningham, News Radio seven hundred
Speaker 1: WLW