Speaker 1: Oh boy, we've got another show for you today. And hey,
Speaker 1: welcome to Earth Agients. I hope you're doing well today.
Speaker 1: This is Cliff the host of the podcast Earth Ancients. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'd love you. Glad you could join us. So much
Speaker 1: going on right now. If you didn't get a chance
Speaker 1: to see the graphics the scans from the Barabar Caves
Speaker 1: in India, which is what Johanna James was talking about
Speaker 1: last week, you should check them out. I had a
Speaker 1: chance to review the scans and there's no way these
Speaker 1: were cut by hand. Their machine cut and it's cut
Speaker 1: into solid granite. And there's seven different caves in this
Speaker 1: system of India, Barra Bar Cave. And you know it's
Speaker 1: funny because a lot of people are like, well, no, no, no.
Speaker 1: If you've got a PhD gonna you're gonna say no,
Speaker 1: there's there's no machinery three thousand years ago that can
Speaker 1: do that.
Speaker 2: It's all handcut.
Speaker 1: And then here we go with the academic discourse of
Speaker 1: telling us what we don't know. And when you get
Speaker 1: an engineer to look at these things, which a lot
Speaker 1: of times this is where we're finding huge anomalies, especially
Speaker 1: in the ancient past, where artifacts are cut by machines
Speaker 1: and formed by machines, and there's no way in hell
Speaker 1: copper chisels or tools of any kind other than cutting.
Speaker 1: High speed cutting tools, lasers or other cutting devices that
Speaker 1: we don't know about, are used to cut buildings, stone work,
Speaker 1: and in this case caves. And you got to see these,
Speaker 1: and you can see them by the way on the
Speaker 1: Facebook page. Got to Facebook, go to Earth Ancients and
Speaker 1: look under Johanna James' podcast, and you see that when
Speaker 1: they did these inner scans, the carving is done elegantly,
Speaker 1: and it's done in huge blocks. Whoever is holding the
Speaker 1: device that's cutting, or if it is, I mean, it's
Speaker 1: so perfect. It looks like the cuts are done by
Speaker 1: some monstrous tool. And I think the other thing that
Speaker 1: was of great interest to Johanna was the fact that
Speaker 1: the polishes of such a high degree that it reflects
Speaker 1: reflects light. And now the one other thing, if you
Speaker 1: remember in that interview, that was curious was the fact
Speaker 1: that the acoustics it's cut to act acoustic tolerances or
Speaker 1: audio tolerances, and so perhaps it was used for some
Speaker 1: kind of communication device, or it was used for healing,
Speaker 1: or it was used for meditation. We don't know, and
Speaker 1: I'd love to have a follow up on that cave
Speaker 1: to see if they have done healing work or even meditation,
Speaker 1: because I know as a meditator that in there's certain buildings,
Speaker 1: ancient buildings I've been into. If I sat and closed
Speaker 1: my eyes and began meditating, I would go very very deep,
Speaker 1: almost to a you know, a deeper level of consciousness.
Speaker 1: And I was very tuned to that location, and I
Speaker 1: think if I'd know a different kind of meditation, I
Speaker 1: probably would have been able to leave my body and
Speaker 1: do what they call bilocate, which is you are in
Speaker 1: one place physically, but there's your consciousness can extend beyond
Speaker 1: your body and move around outside of it. I haven't
Speaker 1: haven't done that, but if you study different techniques of meditation,
Speaker 1: some of them encourage by location. Well so hard to say,
Speaker 1: but check that out. Barra Bar Caves of India, and
Speaker 1: those are on the Facebook pages of Earth Ancients, go
Speaker 1: to the group or the international page. The other thing
Speaker 1: I want to talk about briefly is I posted a
Speaker 1: discovery in north of Carahan Teppee in in Turkey, and
Speaker 1: this is a place called sepher Tepi se feer Tepi Tepe.
Speaker 1: They have found the remains of a skeleton and this
Speaker 1: is very very rare. And what it looks like is
Speaker 1: this skeleton, the skull, part of the skeleton has petrified.
Speaker 1: It's stone. Now that means that this site is extremely old.
Speaker 1: Not twelve thousand years, It might be twenty to forty
Speaker 1: or more thousand years. How does it how long does
Speaker 1: it take for stone to turn the bone, for bone
Speaker 1: to turn to stone to be petrified. And this is
Speaker 1: mind blowing. One of the things I didn't mention when
Speaker 1: we were talking about Kraahan Teppe. By the way, the
Speaker 1: Karrahan Teppie book will be featured on the program with
Speaker 1: the author Andrew Collins in a few weeks, so we'll
Speaker 1: talk with him about that. But this discovery is very
Speaker 1: very strange. And I was looking at the skull. It's
Speaker 1: a different kind of human, it's another subset of humans.
Speaker 1: So now here we go again, more experiments, more hominin creatures,
Speaker 1: humanlike creatures being placed in various parts of the world
Speaker 1: to see if they survive. Now, were these human who
Speaker 1: built kra hand Tippy and the other tepees, kara hand
Speaker 1: Tippy and so on, were they a subset of Homo
Speaker 1: sapien sapien where they are ancestors, or perhaps were these
Speaker 1: the earlier people from another epoch prior to the Ice Age.
Speaker 1: Are these our ancestors? It's really curious. So we're going
Speaker 1: to follow that closely because this could be a very
Speaker 1: major discovery that is a subset of our current ancestry,
Speaker 1: our hominin ancestry, which would be fabulous to know about.
Speaker 1: So keep your eye on that because that's a very
Speaker 1: very important discovery. On to today. Today's program is with
Speaker 1: doctor Greg Little. We haven't had Greg on for about
Speaker 1: a year. He has written a new book called Native
Speaker 1: American Mound and Earthworks, a Field Journal Number one, and
Speaker 1: this is a very important book because there's a great
Speaker 1: deal of new discovery within the mound builders and earthworks
Speaker 1: of the United States. And what he's going to talk
Speaker 1: about today is kind of mind bending because some of
Speaker 1: the discoveries, some of the excavations have uncovered some new
Speaker 1: data that really throws the timeline of the mound builders
Speaker 1: to really really many thousands of years before. And a
Speaker 1: filled journal is something that I used to use. When
Speaker 1: you're at a new site, you take notes, you write
Speaker 1: some diagrams, but he is showing us how to do
Speaker 1: a brief filed journal, and he's really suggesting that more
Speaker 1: people go to these mounds. And I may do a
Speaker 1: tour at Kahokia later next year twenty twenty five, simply
Speaker 1: because I've never been there. And the other thing to
Speaker 1: be aware of when we go to these places is
Speaker 1: that many of the sites, especially the central mound or
Speaker 1: pyramidal structure, is built on a tolleric or energetic or
Speaker 1: lay line, and you can by closing your eyes and
Speaker 1: quieting your mind, you can actually fill the energy there.
Speaker 1: So this is bringing up some of the areas that
Speaker 1: I really believe is important, which is subtle energy and
Speaker 1: the use of it in cultural development as well as
Speaker 1: meditative healing and cosmological processes. And we'll get into that
Speaker 1: today with Greg. So today's program is American Mounds and Earthworks,
Speaker 1: and my guest is doctor Greg Little. Hey. We're in
Speaker 1: the summer months right now and people are thinking about
Speaker 1: getting away for a vacation. Perhaps you have time during
Speaker 1: the fall October November December for a one week getaway.
Speaker 1: Earth Ancients has one of the best tour groups around
Speaker 1: and we are going to be in Mexico for our
Speaker 1: Sacred Temples of Yucatan, Mexico November eighth to the seventeenth.
Speaker 1: We meet in Merida, the capital city of Yukatan, and
Speaker 1: we have a fantastic itinerary. Not only will we see
Speaker 1: the classic chichinitza ushmol Ek Balam and many of the
Speaker 1: smaller sites like Sail Labna and Mayapan, but we have
Speaker 1: selected sites that are perfect for climbing, for connecting with buildings,
Speaker 1: for meditating an actual intention creation work on this tour.
Speaker 1: For more information and the full itinerary, go to Earthancients
Speaker 1: dot com Forward slash tours and you'll see the banner
Speaker 1: from Mexico November eighth to the seventeenth. If you have
Speaker 1: any questions whatsoever, send me an email. Send it to
Speaker 1: Earth Ancients the number four the letter you at gmail
Speaker 1: dot com and.
Speaker 2: I'll get right back to you.
Speaker 1: The Sacred Temples of Mexico is a unique tour because
Speaker 1: we have selected sites that you can actually connect with physically,
Speaker 1: mentally and spiritually. Earthgents dot com Forward slash tours.
Speaker 2: So he's fun to talk to. Greg Little.
Speaker 1: He is an authority on the Native American mound and
Speaker 1: earthworks We've had Greg on a few times in the past.
Speaker 1: He's probably one of the top people when it comes
Speaker 1: to understanding the reason, the purpose and the construction.
Speaker 2: Of earthworks and mounds.
Speaker 1: And if you're not familiar with him, he's written a
Speaker 1: number of great books, including The Mound Builders, Half of
Speaker 1: the Souls, Magnificent Origins. That's a co written book with
Speaker 1: the Andrew Collins, Mounds and Earthworks, and a new book
Speaker 1: that we're talking about today is called Native American Mound
Speaker 1: and Earthwork Filled Journal Number one. And I got to
Speaker 1: tell you I was talking to Greg just before we started,
Speaker 1: as I'm talking about me. When we get out and
Speaker 1: we do our tours and I go to these ancient sites,
Speaker 1: having a field journal is a great tool to sketch
Speaker 1: your ideas, your notes and scribbles whatever, because you can't
Speaker 1: keep this in your head a year later, and it's
Speaker 1: a great way to reference sites. So hey, Greg gat
Speaker 1: to see Welcome back to Earth Ancients.
Speaker 3: Thanks Cliff. It's always a pleasure. I know you get
Speaker 3: around quite a bit. And I will say this about that,
Speaker 3: this is the field journal book I made that because
Speaker 3: of my own stupidity the last few years I've been
Speaker 3: going through thousands and thousands of photos that we took
Speaker 3: starting in nineteen eighty three when we beget my wife
Speaker 3: and I began this mound project, and I'm looking at
Speaker 3: a lot of these photos have no idea where they
Speaker 3: came from, where we took them. Sometimes the day and
Speaker 3: those old printed out photos is on there, but I
Speaker 3: can't reconstruct where a lot of them came from. We
Speaker 3: got better as time went on in labeling them, and
Speaker 3: I also had experiences at a number of sites that
Speaker 3: I really could not tell where I had them. So
Speaker 3: that is why I did this. And a lot of
Speaker 3: people are really interested in connecting with a site, kind
Speaker 3: of mentally connecting. You know, you go to sites. I know,
Speaker 3: you do tours to a lot of sites, and people
Speaker 3: get feelings and impressions, and if they don't write that
Speaker 3: down shortly either when they're there shortly after, like if
Speaker 3: they get on a bus when you're in Egypt or
Speaker 3: somewhere and they get on a bus, should really write
Speaker 3: that stuff down then so you can remember it later.
Speaker 3: Otherwise it will fade. If you go to enough sites,
Speaker 3: you will not be able to distinguish or remember where
Speaker 3: certain things happen. But thanks for mentioning it. I probably
Speaker 3: won't mention it again, but we can talk about We're.
Speaker 1: Going to talk about it because I want you to
Speaker 1: give us some references, and because in essence, you've distilled
Speaker 1: an archaeological review and a survey of a site down
Speaker 1: to key points, key references, references in how to take
Speaker 1: a quick review of a site, which is really what
Speaker 1: you're doing.
Speaker 2: And that's it.
Speaker 1: You just need the basics to get through. And it's
Speaker 1: great because you give us an example where you've actually
Speaker 1: drawn maybe the circumference of a pyramid or a mound
Speaker 1: and guessed at the dimensions, but just laying it out
Speaker 1: and maybe putting some landmarks around this mound is a
Speaker 1: great reference.
Speaker 3: Yeah. That page was the actual page I used when
Speaker 3: we did a magnetic survey at the eclipse that happened
Speaker 3: back in April, you know, there was a full eclipse,
Speaker 3: and I on Twitter which is now x and on Facebook,
Speaker 3: I asked people who were at interested to go to
Speaker 3: mound sites during the eclipse and take a simple handheld
Speaker 3: magnetic compass, not a phone compass, but a magnetic compass
Speaker 3: and put it somewhere in an earthwork or a mound
Speaker 3: and watch it at the very beginning of the full
Speaker 3: eclipse and watch it at the end of the full
Speaker 3: eclipse and just note whatever you happen to see. So
Speaker 3: for me, I took my wife and a couple friends
Speaker 3: to a place called Tawisagi Mounds, which is in southeastern Missouri.
Speaker 3: It's a very large complex. It has a huge pyramid mound,
Speaker 3: or actually it's a truncated pyramid, means it looks like
Speaker 3: a pyramid, but it has a flat top. We got
Speaker 3: on that. I actually filmed it and there was a
Speaker 3: deviation in it. I got ten reports from other people.
Speaker 3: Just over half of them saw the exact same magnetic deviation.
Speaker 3: All of us saw the same thing. It was only
Speaker 3: under the full eclipse, only at the very beginning and
Speaker 3: very end. And I did that to try and document
Speaker 3: and look at a theory that I've had since actually
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety is when I first wrote up that theory. So, yeah,
Speaker 3: that's that's what's in there, that's what that one example loves.
Speaker 3: Since yeah, I've almost filled this book up since then
Speaker 3: because I've gone to so many sites.
Speaker 1: Have you have you purchased or have you used any
Speaker 1: kind of equipment that tests to lyric fields? Other than
Speaker 1: just a simple no, I haven't done what John Burke
Speaker 1: did years ago, take magnometers and stuff and go to
Speaker 1: the oka.
Speaker 3: I have not. I have used other things. I have
Speaker 3: a couple electromagnetic field meters that have gone out and used,
Speaker 3: because electromagnetic energy has a lot to do with the
Speaker 3: things that people might experience at these sites. Yeah, and
Speaker 3: maybe we can get into that a little bit.
Speaker 1: I want to get into it in a big gray
Speaker 1: because you have a chapter on how shamanistic approaches of
Speaker 1: these are the guys who actually chose the pyramids. But
Speaker 1: even more so than that, they're sensitive to magnetic fields,
Speaker 1: lay lines, and perhaps turk fields. Let's bring that up
Speaker 1: in a sec talk. Let's go to the beginning because
Speaker 1: and by the way, for you listeners, Greg has written
Speaker 1: the authoritative book on this is called The Illustrated Encyclopedia
Speaker 1: of Native American Indian Mounds and Earthworks, and he sent
Speaker 1: me a copy probably eight nine years ago, and it
Speaker 1: is really pretty much would you say, it's almost every
Speaker 1: known mound. You couldn't get to all of them because
Speaker 1: there's over one hundred thousand, but the most noted, perhaps
Speaker 1: the ones that are still in its original form. Maybe
Speaker 1: that's the criteria you used.
Speaker 3: Well, I had two criterias, but one of them was
Speaker 3: what's accessible. Oh, there have to be accessible mounds, but
Speaker 3: there are tens of thousands that are not accessible. For example, Minnesota,
Speaker 3: the State Archygist of Minnesota two years ago, in their
Speaker 3: annual report, said that there are twelve thousand, five hundred
Speaker 3: mounds in the state of Minnesota that are now known
Speaker 3: to still exist. Twelve thousand, five hundred. Now, a few
Speaker 3: years ago, archaeologists were claiming that there might only be
Speaker 3: ten thousand left in the entire country, and chances are
Speaker 3: there's probably way over one hundred thousand that are still
Speaker 3: in existence. I have since that last Mounta Encyclopedia version
Speaker 3: came out, I probably found another five or six thousand,
Speaker 3: but most of those are fairly small. They're on private property,
Speaker 3: hard to find, but there are many, many of them
Speaker 3: in existence. The Mounta Encyclopedia has, as I recall, three
Speaker 3: thousand entries three.
Speaker 2: Thousand coast on that too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but I didn't get them all. That's the thing.
Speaker 3: I mean. I only put a couple in in like
Speaker 3: North and South Dakota. Since then, I've found one hundreds
Speaker 3: more in both North and South Dakota and in Oregon.
Speaker 3: I don't think I listened to any in Oregon. Well,
Speaker 3: the Oregon has probably just under a thousand that still exists. California, Uh,
Speaker 3: the San Francisco Bay once had five hundred and fifty
Speaker 3: mounds around the bay alone. Today there is one that
Speaker 3: you can visit, but it's only a it's like one
Speaker 3: hundredth of its original size. And I've put pictures. It's
Speaker 3: the Emeryville Lound. It's called and I was, yeah, it's
Speaker 3: a big shell, but it was huge. It was forty
Speaker 3: five feet tall initially. Today it's a little hump it's
Speaker 3: about three feet tall with a little sign. But it
Speaker 3: was it was almost fifty feet tall. It was three
Speaker 3: hundred feet long by two hundred feet wide, and I've
Speaker 3: got a picture of a steam shovel destroying it. In
Speaker 3: the early nineteen hundreds, they simply removed it all. Later,
Speaker 3: after they flattened it, they came in and put a
Speaker 3: little hump there and they put a sign on top
Speaker 3: of it. And it's just amazing how many that there were,
Speaker 3: and they were all over. There were also in the
Speaker 3: Southwest the same thing. And we now know a lot more,
Speaker 3: just in recent years of what the heck they were doing,
Speaker 3: where some of the ideas came from. And archaeology used
Speaker 3: to say that all these cultures over here in North America,
Speaker 3: Central America, and South America, that they all were in
Speaker 3: isolation and that they all came up with their own
Speaker 3: ideas individually. Nobody came in. And that's not true anymore.
Speaker 1: You're talking about diffusion, greg diffusion.
Speaker 3: It's not it's diffusion of ideas. And the problem with
Speaker 3: the old diffusion idea is they used to think like
Speaker 3: masses of white man, it's white people. Masses of white
Speaker 3: people came in and dominated and built all that. That's
Speaker 3: not the case. There weren't mass of people that came in.
Speaker 3: There were small groups that came in, everything from Chinese junks.
Speaker 3: Now they're all but certain and these are mainstream archaeologists
Speaker 3: writing this stuff. Now that hey, Chinese junks probably came.
Speaker 3: It's extremely possible Phoenicians came. But we're not talking about
Speaker 3: thousands and thousands of people. We're talking about small groups
Speaker 3: in ships, some of which probably accidentally got here. They
Speaker 3: did interact with the Native Americans that were here, and
Speaker 3: they did have some influence but the reason they don't
Speaker 3: show up in genetics is because they're all men. They
Speaker 3: were all male, and the genetics that are tested it's
Speaker 3: all female DNA. Mightochondrial DNA is the ancient DNA that's
Speaker 3: almost always tested, and might Achondrial DNA only comes from
Speaker 3: the female side. So if any of these people who
Speaker 3: were Chinese, or any of the people who were maybe
Speaker 3: Phoenicians or from the Mediterranean, maybe from maybe even Romans,
Speaker 3: who know, there is evidence that some Romans made it
Speaker 3: here and all that is actually it's pretty solid evidence.
Speaker 3: A lot of archaeologists hate this stuff and they'll say, well,
Speaker 3: there's no evidence of it. Well, there is evidence of it.
Speaker 3: There's just no genetic evidence because they were all men
Speaker 3: and they're dnd in. Mitochondrial DNA ends when the man dies,
Speaker 3: that's it. It doesn't matter if he is offspring. They
Speaker 3: don't get any of that DNA from him.
Speaker 1: Did any of the Spanish explorers or any of the
Speaker 1: other European countries who made it to North America get
Speaker 1: an idea of the total number of mounds that existed
Speaker 1: before civilization pushed them.
Speaker 3: Down, Well, the Spanish didn't count them. They did in
Speaker 3: the Spanish chronicles. There's several sets of them, of course,
Speaker 3: we know like Cortes and Pizarro and Mexico and the
Speaker 3: Incas and so on. We know Hernando de Soto, the
Speaker 3: Navarez group was before de Soto, and then Coronado out
Speaker 3: in the southwest. And Coronado and DeSoto were basically at
Speaker 3: the same time, from roughly fifteen thirty nine to fifteen
Speaker 3: forty two, and the two groups. Coronado was in the
Speaker 3: southwest moving toward the east, and de Soto started in
Speaker 3: the southeast and Florida and went up and then went
Speaker 3: around almost all the way the west, and they came
Speaker 3: like forty miles from each other. Neither one of them
Speaker 3: knew the other was there. Oh my god, but they had.
Speaker 3: They wrote about all these They had chroniclers with them,
Speaker 3: and like DeSoto talked about his chronicles, talk about going
Speaker 3: through mound site after mound site after another, and in
Speaker 3: some cases they couldn't tell where one city or town
Speaker 3: began and ended and the next one began because they
Speaker 3: were so close together. And today, for example, in areas
Speaker 3: of say Arkansas and Tennessee, where De Soto was in Arkansas,
Speaker 3: where the Parking Mound is, where They know that De
Speaker 3: Soto went because they found some artifacts in DeSoto. They
Speaker 3: also found the remains of the cross that De Soto
Speaker 3: put in to the large temple mound there. You can
Speaker 3: actually see that when you go to parking mounds. But
Speaker 3: they know that about every five miles on both sides
Speaker 3: of the rivers there the White River the Red Rivers,
Speaker 3: there there was a city or a town that had
Speaker 3: five to ten thousand people. So there'd be one five
Speaker 3: miles on one side of the river, five miles on
Speaker 3: the other side of the river five miles, and that
Speaker 3: side five miles on that side, and then around the
Speaker 3: central towns which were all palisade they were fortresses. They
Speaker 3: all had walls around them, high palisade walls with bastions,
Speaker 3: and then around them were agricultural areas. So there was town,
Speaker 3: another town, another town, another town, and there's like twenty
Speaker 3: or thirty of these towns in just one area of
Speaker 3: the river. Same thing with the Tennessee River. Nashville was
Speaker 3: almost solid Native Americans at the time De Soto went through.
Speaker 3: They were everywhere, and the population of the Americas at
Speaker 3: that time it's been debated for a long time. Now
Speaker 3: they know it's higher than the highest estimates. It was
Speaker 3: probably somewhere around one hundred and fifty million people were
Speaker 3: in the Americas, one hundred and fifty million, which was
Speaker 3: greater than the entire population of Europe at the time.
Speaker 3: One hundred and fifty million. Yeah, well, one hundred and
Speaker 3: fifty seven million, I think is the the top estimate.
Speaker 3: But they believe that's too low now because they found
Speaker 3: evidence of ten million people living in the Amazon basin
Speaker 3: so at that time, and they were all wiped out
Speaker 3: quickly from diseases because that was one of the very
Speaker 3: first areas that the Spanish got to, and they went
Speaker 3: up the Amazon River in their little boats and they
Speaker 3: interacted with the tribes, and the diseases spread like wildfire.
Speaker 3: It's incredible, It's absolutely incredible, and it started a long
Speaker 3: time ago. The dates the last time that we talked,
Speaker 3: the oldest mound in the Ericas was dated to eight thousand,
Speaker 3: four hundred BC, so two thousand. That was in It's
Speaker 3: called the isladel Testsoro Mound. It's in the Bolivian Amazon,
Speaker 3: oh Amazon, the Bolivian Amazon. Well, I would have told you.
Speaker 3: I probably told you the last time that the oldest
Speaker 3: known mound in North America at that time was one
Speaker 3: called the Monte Sano Mound, which is in Baton Rouge, Louisiana,
Speaker 3: which is actually on the state capitol grounds of Baton Rouge.
Speaker 3: Was it was completely excavated and it dated to about
Speaker 3: five thousand, four hundred BC fifty four hundred BC, seven
Speaker 3: four hundred years ago. Well two years ago, twenty twenty two,
Speaker 3: Louisiana State University retested two mounds on their campus. They
Speaker 3: are called the Campus Mounds, and eleven people were on
Speaker 3: the article and it dated one of the campus mounds
Speaker 3: to nine thousand, three hundred BC or eleven thousand, three
Speaker 3: hundred years ago. And there's a whole bunch of mounds
Speaker 3: in Louisiana and Mississippi and parts of Alabama. To start
Speaker 3: on the coast and move up that from the nine thousand,
Speaker 3: you get to five thousand, and you have a lot
Speaker 3: of four thousands, and you got a lot of three
Speaker 3: thousand BC's, and it's really old along the coast, and
Speaker 3: it gets more recent or younger as you move up.
Speaker 1: You're look enthusiastic and it's like you're gonna spring another
Speaker 1: date on me, or well, here comes the narcissist of
Speaker 1: like fourteen, you're gonna go beyond go Beckley tippy twelve
Speaker 1: thousand BC or something.
Speaker 3: Well, it probably will. So here's where the next thing is.
Speaker 3: Just a couple months ago, just like two months ago,
Speaker 3: several articles came out in Nature, in the journal Nature,
Speaker 3: and in another archaeological journal discussing seventy five sites that
Speaker 3: have been found off of the Florida and Louisiana coast underwater.
Speaker 3: And I've said for years the oldest, the oldest sites
Speaker 3: in America have to be along the coast, and they
Speaker 3: have to be underwater and the continental shelf that if
Speaker 3: you actually look at the maps, and I'll send you
Speaker 3: one of these, if you look at the coastal maps, Florida,
Speaker 3: for example, Florida was more than twice as big as
Speaker 3: it is now. That's how large the continental shelf is
Speaker 3: back in the last Ice Age. And some of these
Speaker 3: sites are being found at two to three hundred feet underwater,
Speaker 3: So we're talking about seventy five eighty to one hundred
Speaker 3: miles into the gulf or where the oldest sites are.
Speaker 3: And these are called shell rings. They're not just they're
Speaker 3: not midden, they're not midden mounds or trash mounds. These
Speaker 3: are deliberately made geometric earthworks made with shell, sand and
Speaker 3: whatever other dirt.
Speaker 1: Are these image image through satellites, Gregg. Are they able
Speaker 1: to capture them at all?
Speaker 3: No, not at three hundred feet. What they have done
Speaker 3: is they found some of them through They started with oh,
Speaker 3: it's a type of radar, Yeah, sonar. They started with sonar,
Speaker 3: and then they've used sub bottom profiling to look at
Speaker 3: what's under all the silt and so on, and that's
Speaker 3: where you can see them. So there are loads of these.
Speaker 3: They have to be older than the end of the
Speaker 3: ice Age. So the ice Age ended, you know, roughly
Speaker 3: twelve thousand years ago. And when I say it ended,
Speaker 3: the sea levels were still one hundred feet lower twelve
Speaker 3: thousand years ago. Twenty eight thousand years ago is when
Speaker 3: the sea levels were three hundred to three hundred and
Speaker 3: fifty feet lower twenty eight thousand, and they slowly, it
Speaker 3: slowly came up. And ten thousand years ago is when
Speaker 3: the pulse of the water, you know, the water pulses,
Speaker 3: really took off and then the sea levels came to
Speaker 3: basically where they are today very quickly. But in three
Speaker 3: in BC, for example, the sea levels were still about
Speaker 3: twenty to thirty feet lower than today.
Speaker 1: Amazing, So it's got to get older. Yeah, I can
Speaker 1: see it in your fish. You're you're gonna we're gonna
Speaker 1: have you back, and you're gonna say something outrageous like
Speaker 1: twenty thousand years Who were the mound builders? Greg? Was
Speaker 1: it a collective like the Maya? I've always felt the
Speaker 1: Maya and Dynastic Egyptians, and the Dynastic Egyptians actually show
Speaker 1: it a multi racial, multicultural people, kind of like the
Speaker 1: United States where you have kind of a blend of
Speaker 1: different people different parts of the world. What do you
Speaker 1: feel was the the original mound builders and is there
Speaker 1: more than one group?
Speaker 3: Well, it went this is this is another thing that's
Speaker 3: changing rather dramatically, my real intention in this, and then
Speaker 3: what I'll call the Mound Project, which I understand a
Speaker 3: lot more today than I did when I started it.
Speaker 3: I really didn't know what I was doing when I
Speaker 3: started it. And I think I've told the story before
Speaker 3: about how it came about with a dream, a series
Speaker 3: of dreams that I had in nineteen eighty three, and
Speaker 3: then interactions with a spider that my wife and I
Speaker 3: had that led us to the first mound. Have I
Speaker 3: I've told you that story happened.
Speaker 1: No, not of a spider, what spider?
Speaker 3: And well, okay, I'll send you a picture of the
Speaker 3: spider too.
Speaker 2: Spider.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a very big spider. You can see
Speaker 3: my hands here. It was. It was huge. I have
Speaker 3: seen a spider this big in Mexico. Yeah, I did
Speaker 3: see one this big there. So big spiders do exist.
Speaker 3: But okay, so in nineteen eighty three, I'm going to
Speaker 3: try and answer your question in a roundabout way because
Speaker 3: the information that I collected in nineteen eighty three, when
Speaker 3: I really read mainstream archaeology, that's when I started, and
Speaker 3: I believed what they said. I really believed what mainstream
Speaker 3: archaeology told us out all this back then was correct
Speaker 3: because I had just gotten that of graduate school, I
Speaker 3: had just gotten a doctorate, I had written my first book,
Speaker 3: I was writing in professional journals. Also, I was a
Speaker 3: scientist and a practitioner, so I believed in what they said.
Speaker 3: And it started like this from I had finished my
Speaker 3: first book called The Archetype Experience, which was about Carl
Speaker 3: Jung and it was a follow up to Carl Jung's
Speaker 3: last book, which was called Flying Saucers, the Modern Myth
Speaker 3: of Things Seen in the Skies, So in nineteen I
Speaker 3: finished it in nineteen eighty two, and then I waited
Speaker 3: for two years for the old published publishing process that
Speaker 3: took years. Then you'd mail the manuscripts and you'd wait.
Speaker 3: While I was waiting, I didn't know what I was
Speaker 3: going to do next in terms of a book. I
Speaker 3: knew I wanted to write a book, But all of
Speaker 3: a sudden I had these dreams that came from nowhere.
Speaker 3: And in these dreams, I was standing on an Indian man.
Speaker 3: I didn't know what an Indian moun was. I mean,
Speaker 3: that's very honest. And I took pictures. I had a camera, click, click, take,
Speaker 3: And then I was on another ended man, took pictures
Speaker 3: at another one took pictures. This was a recurring dream.
Speaker 3: It happened five nights in a row, and I validated
Speaker 3: this with my wife. I used to think it was more,
Speaker 3: but she says, no, it was five. So I believe her.
Speaker 3: She knows more than I do, so all right, So
Speaker 3: at the end of the five days, I was telling her, man,
Speaker 3: we I don't know what the heck this is about.
Speaker 3: And then that night we saw in our bedroom this
Speaker 3: giant spider coming down on a thread in her bedroom
Speaker 3: and we freaked out. We're laying in bed. We buff
Speaker 3: looked up and here it's coming down. We threw the
Speaker 3: sheets up. We looked all over for this spider. We
Speaker 3: I mean, we tore up the bedroom. Nobody wants a
Speaker 3: giant spider like that in their bedroom. Way, And we
Speaker 3: looked and we looked, and I must have crawled into
Speaker 3: a closet, you know the way. There's a crack at
Speaker 3: the bottom of the closet door. And we looked and
Speaker 3: I was ready to hit it with a with a
Speaker 3: big shoe or something. Really, that's what I was going
Speaker 3: to do, wasn't there. We sat down and we talked
Speaker 3: about it. We're both psychologists, and I said, eh, this
Speaker 3: is a fole a DO, and a fole a DO
Speaker 3: is an actual diagnostic termam It means joint hallucination. Wow,
Speaker 3: they're very rare. Well, we had a similar dream again
Speaker 3: and again we started seeing and I said, we've got
Speaker 3: to go to a mound site. We went to Aunt.
Speaker 3: We went to the first mound site I ever visited.
Speaker 3: Then chok Alsa mounds in Memphis, and when we got
Speaker 3: to the door of the museum, you got to go
Speaker 3: through the museum to get out into the mound site.
Speaker 3: We got there and they had a display sign, big
Speaker 3: display right inside the door, and right on the top
Speaker 3: there was the exact same spider that we had seen.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, a synchronicity. And I immediately knew at
Speaker 3: that time, I've got to document every mound that's still
Speaker 3: in existence. That's how Oh my god, Greg, So that
Speaker 3: was kind of like you're calling nineteen eighty three. I
Speaker 3: do want to talk. And that's partly why I tell
Speaker 3: people about connecting with the site. If you connect with
Speaker 3: the sites, you can pick up stuff. That is how
Speaker 3: it started. I had zero interests in all of this.
Speaker 3: I knew nothing about mounds, so I started, we started visiting,
Speaker 3: and I started reading and reading it. At the time
Speaker 3: mound building began all roughly three thousand BC. Up in
Speaker 3: the northeast, they were called the Old Copper Well, the
Speaker 3: Old Copper culture was up around the Lake Superior, and
Speaker 3: in the east it was called the Glacial cane culture.
Speaker 3: They did the burials in these natural hills and made
Speaker 3: little mounds over them, and then it went to the South.
Speaker 3: That was the story, and it started around three thousand BC,
Speaker 3: and everybody came over into the Americas in one flow.
Speaker 3: It was called the Clovis culture. They started around ninety
Speaker 3: six hundred BC. They came across Boringia and all the Americas.
Speaker 3: That was it.
Speaker 1: We're going to take a short commercial break to allow
Speaker 1: our sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly
Speaker 1: with my guest today, Greg Little, discussing his latest book,
Speaker 1: Native American Mound and Earthworks, Filled Journal number one.
Speaker 2: We'll be right back.
Speaker 1: I guess today is Greg Little, who has written a
Speaker 1: new book called Native American Mound and Earthworks Field Journal's
Speaker 1: number one, and we're getting a sense of how to
Speaker 1: experience ancient archaeological sites here in the United States. You
Speaker 1: mean the classic story of the Natives coming from the
Speaker 1: Bearing Street exactly.
Speaker 3: That's what was in all the textbooks. And they'll say, oh,
Speaker 3: well you know that, Yeah, we've changed. It was stated
Speaker 3: as absolute fact. I know, it was stated as scientific certainty,
Speaker 3: and I still have some of the textbooks that say
Speaker 3: it as absolute fact, scientific certainty. And that has changed
Speaker 3: so much, and that nobody until Columbus got here except
Speaker 3: maybe the Norse and a little bit in Canada. That's it.
Speaker 3: That's the only thing that they've ever acknowledged. Nobody else
Speaker 3: ever came here, and all that is crap, including the
Speaker 3: where mound building began and the time frames. So we
Speaker 3: know now that numerous people came over there. And you
Speaker 3: said mind blowing data. Well, there's a site about forty
Speaker 3: miles from Mexico City called huwai at Tlaco. Say that again,
Speaker 3: huay at Tolaco. Huay at Tulaco. Oh, you haven't been
Speaker 3: there because it's there's nothing there but a few houses,
Speaker 3: and there's a lake and there's a river nearby. It's
Speaker 3: a place where there are footprints, alleged footprints that go
Speaker 3: back a million years. And there is a site which
Speaker 3: in the nineteen eighties an archaeologist, female archaeologist, along with
Speaker 3: the US Geological Survey, they did all the testing of it.
Speaker 3: The USGS did the testing, and the soor Bone in
Speaker 3: France did the testing and they all came up the
Speaker 3: same dates. Huaya Tlaco was dated at that time to
Speaker 3: two hundred and fifty thousand years ago.
Speaker 1: Oh, you're talking about this geologist.
Speaker 2: I can't remember her name.
Speaker 1: Who. Yeah, who lost her career.
Speaker 3: Yes, they came a gun. The Mexican government, actually the
Speaker 3: head of Mexican Archaeology who was over the museum came
Speaker 3: and with and had army people with guns. They pulled
Speaker 3: the guns on them to make them stop. Some of
Speaker 3: this is on a recent film that has been made
Speaker 3: and the reason the reason the film was made because
Speaker 3: a guy went there and he actually talked to the
Speaker 3: people who did the recent research there and they had
Speaker 3: three independent labs test the artifacts that they had and
Speaker 3: the layers. And now it's come back to three hundred
Speaker 3: and fifty to four hundred thousand years ago.
Speaker 1: Greg, No one's publishing that. That's nowhere. I haven't you
Speaker 1: would see that in the National Geographic.
Speaker 3: No, you haven't seen that, and you and you probably
Speaker 3: will at some point. Maybe there are sites in South
Speaker 3: America that you will see in South American archaeology journals
Speaker 3: that are fifth thousand, go back to fifty thousand BC.
Speaker 3: There are a lot of those. So right now in America,
Speaker 3: it's like the earliest stuff, our footprints, you know, twenty
Speaker 3: eight thousand years ago, and almost no archaeology archaeologists here
Speaker 3: will dispute that. Well, there were people here probably twenty
Speaker 3: eight thirty thousand years ago. Almost all the archaeologists except
Speaker 3: that now and then there's the Serruti site near San Diego,
Speaker 3: which dates to one hundred and thirty three thousand years ago,
Speaker 3: and that was in an archaeology journal. I want to
Speaker 3: say it was twenty nineteen, and a lot of people
Speaker 3: don't like it because it makes no sense. Whether they
Speaker 3: were modern humans or not. We don't know. So things
Speaker 3: are changing, just like the dates of the mounds. So
Speaker 3: who were the mound builders? Ye, Well, when people did
Speaker 3: come over from Beringia, we know that, and I'm reasonably
Speaker 3: certain as are the head one of the head guys
Speaker 3: that the Smithsonian came up with the Apple group x
Speaker 3: as the as Clovis people and the Solutarian people coming over.
Speaker 3: The head of the Smithsonian came up with that. He
Speaker 3: believes they came from the Solutarian culture in France. It's
Speaker 3: between France and Portugal and Spain, and they date to
Speaker 3: about eighteen thousand BC. So that is something that mainstream
Speaker 3: archaeologists don't like. But those people came over, there were
Speaker 3: already people here. Mound building appears to have begun around
Speaker 3: the year nine thousand, BC or so, maybe earlier, we
Speaker 3: don't know yet. Probably there were the shell mound people
Speaker 3: building the geometric shell mounds in the coast, and they
Speaker 3: slowly moved inward as the Ice Age wayne, they went
Speaker 3: further north, and around nine thousand BC it was good
Speaker 3: enough for him to get into southern Louisiana and start
Speaker 3: moving north. But they interacted with the people who were
Speaker 3: already here. Now that those were very simple types of mounds,
Speaker 3: although some of them were geometric, geometric circles, some of
Speaker 3: which had mounds on them and around them elevated platforms.
Speaker 3: But the mound cultures in North America appear to be
Speaker 3: influenced by the cultures in meso America. The Maya, early
Speaker 3: Maya got Olmec go to the Olmec, go back to
Speaker 3: the Olmec Poverty Point, Louisiana and the site of Watson Break, Louisiana,
Speaker 3: and a lot of the shell mounds and the geometric
Speaker 3: shell mounds, which are absolutely incredible, unbelievable looking. Most people
Speaker 3: have never seen what these things look like. And I'll
Speaker 3: send you pictures that you can post. Uh. These date
Speaker 3: to at least three thousand BC or so. All of
Speaker 3: those appear to have been influenced by the meso American call.
Speaker 3: There's very early cultures, and like Kahoki is one of
Speaker 3: the first things people think about when they think about mounds. Kahoki,
Speaker 3: of course, had one hundred and twenty mounds, about eighty
Speaker 3: of them remain today. Has the biggest mound that we
Speaker 3: know of in the United States. It's not the biggest
Speaker 3: one in the Americas, but the biggest one in the
Speaker 3: United States, and it's one hundred feet tall. It was
Speaker 3: at least one hundred and seven feet tall at one time,
Speaker 3: had multiple levels, had a building on it that had
Speaker 3: walls fifty feet high, fifty feet high. The mound itself
Speaker 3: covered seventeen acres at one time the day it covers
Speaker 3: thirteen and a half. The Great Pyramid, by contrast, in
Speaker 3: Egypt covers just under thirteen acres, but Monks Mound at
Speaker 3: Kahoki it covers thirteen and a half acres now, whereas
Speaker 3: it once covered a lot more than that. That's what
Speaker 3: people think of and Kohokia now the term that archaeologists
Speaker 3: use is it's a big bang. The big bang. That
Speaker 3: is the actual term you find it in textbooks I have.
Speaker 3: This is a twenty twenty two book written by the
Speaker 3: guy who's the head of Illinois Archaeology. He is over
Speaker 3: all and he calls it the Big Bang. This one
Speaker 3: is a guy in the Southwest. He talks about Kahokia,
Speaker 3: and Kahokia appears to have started around the year ten
Speaker 3: fifty to ten fifty four when the kats Eye Nebula
Speaker 3: became a super nova and it was seen in the
Speaker 3: sky for several years. And they believe that what happened
Speaker 3: is a group of people who were aztech and they
Speaker 3: were influenced by Teya Tuwakan. They came north and brought
Speaker 3: this culture up. There were already mounds in North America
Speaker 3: and the United States. When I say North America, I
Speaker 3: basically mean the United States, although Mexico is also part
Speaker 3: of it. But they came up and they brought a
Speaker 3: total new way of mound building and they actually established kingdoms.
Speaker 3: We're not talking about chiefs anymore. And this is all
Speaker 3: new to me. I mean, this is like, it's totally
Speaker 3: new stuff. So they're calling them kings. Now, Kahokia was
Speaker 3: a kingdom started around the year ten fifty to ten
Speaker 3: fifty four.
Speaker 2: Let me stop you real quick.
Speaker 3: So you're doing.
Speaker 1: The archaeologists are now redefining these settlements as kingdoms. Yes, interesting,
Speaker 1: these aren't settlements.
Speaker 3: Kahokia for sure had at least fifty thousand people there
Speaker 3: in the year ten In the year eleven hundred, it
Speaker 3: had and now we're talking about this is the core
Speaker 3: of the city. Now there were ten thousand people living
Speaker 3: around the living in side the interior walls. Kahokia had
Speaker 3: several sets of walls around it, which means it was
Speaker 3: a massive fortress. And there were ten thousand people living
Speaker 3: inside the walls, and they were the elite around Kahokia.
Speaker 3: Just in the immediate area there was another forty thousand people,
Speaker 3: and then around that there were probably a few hundred
Speaker 3: thousand more people in their sphere of influence. And they
Speaker 3: brought maize up, which we'll call corn from here on out,
Speaker 3: because it had been domesticated by then, and Kahokia was
Speaker 3: perfect for that. They built and they sent emissaries up
Speaker 3: all the way up to Wisconsin, and they started at
Speaker 3: almost identical site at Astalan, Wisconsin. It's a state park.
Speaker 3: They built large mounds there and fortresses in Astalan around
Speaker 3: the year eleven hundred. Now Kahokia it only lasted roughly
Speaker 3: two hundred years, and then it collapsed, which is bizarre.
Speaker 3: And then everybody left, and it was for many, many years.
Speaker 3: If you watch Ancient Aliens, there was an episode back oh,
Speaker 3: a new one about three or four months ago, and
Speaker 3: they talked about the collapse of Kahokia being a great mystery.
Speaker 3: Well it is, and they said where did they go?
Speaker 3: They simply disappeared, They vanished. And somebody asked me what
Speaker 3: happened to them? And I said, well, I can answer
Speaker 3: that in two words. They moved. They left. That's it,
Speaker 3: because where did they go?
Speaker 2: Couldn't support them anymore?
Speaker 3: Well, there was. So this is where it gets really complicated.
Speaker 3: I'll try to keep it simple. Several things happened all
Speaker 3: at once. The elite appear to have been demanding a
Speaker 3: little too much. What allowed so many people to live
Speaker 3: in these confined small areas, you know, like American Bottom
Speaker 3: is what it's called, the area around Kohokiah. It's called
Speaker 3: American Bottom. It's the best farmland in the United States.
Speaker 3: It did flight flood every year. But people think of
Speaker 3: floods that are always really destructive in that we're only
Speaker 3: talking about a few feet of water going out and
Speaker 3: getting the soil really replenished every year. And the reason
Speaker 3: it was only a few feet is because they didn't
Speaker 3: have levees. It's the levees that we have along the
Speaker 3: Mississippi River that caused the severe flooding. The levees make
Speaker 3: the river get really high inside the levees. I live
Speaker 3: in Memphis and we see this all the time the
Speaker 3: let When the levees break, then you have enormous amounts
Speaker 3: of damage that occurs because huge amounts of water go
Speaker 3: into one area. But back then, without the levees, the
Speaker 3: flooding was really a gift. It was a good thing.
Speaker 3: So it allowed them to have a huge surplus of food,
Speaker 3: which allowed them to let people specialize. Some of them
Speaker 3: specialized in lithics, making weapons, a lot of them specialized
Speaker 3: in copper, a lot of them specialized in etching. And
Speaker 3: there was a ruling elite that specialized in spiritual beliefs,
Speaker 3: which is really which was really and still is my
Speaker 3: biggest interest in all this. So that and so Kahokia
Speaker 3: kind of took over something that was already here for
Speaker 3: probably ten, twelve, fifteen thousand years.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 3: So there's a series of these, a series of cultures
Speaker 3: that progressively developed and evolved into something else. But when
Speaker 3: Kahokia ended around the year twelve hundred, so eleven fifty
Speaker 3: to twelve hundred, when it collapsed, the culture just simply
Speaker 3: went elsewhere, and the mound building and continued to go on.
Speaker 3: It's just a population move. So when de Soto got here,
Speaker 3: building was everywhere, These cultures were everywhere, and there were
Speaker 3: tens of millions of people here, and within two generations,
Speaker 3: ninety five percent of them died.
Speaker 1: Let's talk a little get a little deeper. You're a
Speaker 1: co author, Andrew Collins lists and I think I can't
Speaker 1: remember what book it was that you guys co wrote together.
Speaker 1: When the Spanish came over, they also met with giants, Yes,
Speaker 1: and I'd like you to talk a little bit about that,
Speaker 1: because within the mounds, a number of mounds, and we
Speaker 1: see this in Smithsonian documents, and we also see this
Speaker 1: listed in various books on human noons written a.
Speaker 2: Couple of books.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's these giants that were not one or two,
Speaker 1: there are whole communities of these people. Yeah, this is
Speaker 1: a subculture that is in the Americas. But I don't
Speaker 1: know if it was a huge. A number of people
Speaker 1: or just a few.
Speaker 3: Well, okay, so in terms of ones that were seven
Speaker 3: feet and up seven feet up, the Smithsonian found and
Speaker 3: documented seventeen. That's the exact number. Andrew and I actually
Speaker 3: read the two books. I could pull them out over
Speaker 3: here and show you that they fall apart now because
Speaker 3: I have the original publications from one of them's eighteen
Speaker 3: eighty nine, the other one's eighteen eighty seven, and they're
Speaker 3: giant books. They're huge, oversized, seven hundred eight hundred pages
Speaker 3: and very small type. So we read through those carefully,
Speaker 3: and we found seventeen that are seven feet and up.
Speaker 3: Out of mounds. They also found loads I wouldn't even
Speaker 3: count these that were called it large or exceptionally large.
Speaker 3: After the Smithsonian documented the seventeen, there's another dozen or
Speaker 3: so that archaeologists, mainstream archaeologists, most of which were from
Speaker 3: the University of Kentucky, since they looked mainly into these
Speaker 3: types of mounds, and in West Virginia, quite a few
Speaker 3: were found, and those were anywhere from just under seven
Speaker 3: feet to like six feet two, six feet seven, six
Speaker 3: feet eight. And the reason I'm mentioning these sizes because
Speaker 3: seventeen seven foot skeletons might not sound like much, but
Speaker 3: multiply seventeen by one hundred and seventy four thousand, and
Speaker 3: that's the number of skeletons you have to dig up
Speaker 3: to statistically find seventeen people that are seven feet tall.
Speaker 3: That's how rare it is of anybody being seven feet tall.
Speaker 1: Ok.
Speaker 3: And I think it's in the order of three million
Speaker 3: skeletons that you have to dig up, and they didn't
Speaker 3: dig up anywhere close to three million. In fact, there
Speaker 3: was one area in West Virginia, in the Canoa River
Speaker 3: Valley near South Charleston, West Virginia, where the Smithsonian dug
Speaker 3: into about five mounds. They found fifty four skeletons in
Speaker 3: the five mounds all together, and six, I'm sorry seven
Speaker 3: of those were seven feet and so I did a
Speaker 3: statistical analysis of that and published it in the book
Speaker 3: Path of Souls, and a mainstream archaeologist who's a skeptic
Speaker 3: named Andrew White, who was then at the University of
Speaker 3: South Carolina who's now at the University of Illinois. Andrew
Speaker 3: called that the Edena elite hypothesis, and the idea is
Speaker 3: the Edena who built these giant conical burial mounds like
Speaker 3: seventy some feet tall, looked like a looked like the
Speaker 3: top of a giant ice cream cone. Seventy some feet
Speaker 3: tall were the largest ones. Well, the tallest one was
Speaker 3: eighty nine feet that at the base of those, they
Speaker 3: had burial chambers, sometimes made of stone chambers that looked
Speaker 3: just like the stone chambers in England. That's partly why
Speaker 3: I took a trip to the Orkney Islands recently to
Speaker 3: take a look at the stone chambers and compare them
Speaker 3: to the one that we have here. These stone chambers
Speaker 3: is where they buried the elite, so he says. The
Speaker 3: hypothesis is the people who were the leaders of the
Speaker 3: Edena were exceptionally large, and they were large through heredity.
Speaker 3: We know that there was that heredity played a large
Speaker 3: role in the passage of power from one generation to
Speaker 3: the next. We know that, for example, in the Maya,
Speaker 3: the same thing is probably true. In the Aztecs, the
Speaker 3: same tiering thing. We know it's true in Peru with
Speaker 3: the Moche pyramids and others there. We know that it
Speaker 3: was done through heredity, and the same thing appears to
Speaker 3: have occurred in North America. There are legends native Americans
Speaker 3: had that called them giants, and they said they exterminated them.
Speaker 3: The populace rose up and exterminated them because their demands
Speaker 3: had become outrageous. And that's actually in the mythology and
Speaker 3: legends of Native American tribes. So yes, there are those.
Speaker 3: We never found anything that we could document, anyone over
Speaker 3: seven feet eight inches tall that was found. There are
Speaker 3: lots of accounts of skeletons, you know, that are twenty
Speaker 3: feet and so on in height, but when you really
Speaker 3: dig into those, it kind of falls apart. There's a
Speaker 3: dead end you hit.
Speaker 1: That's funny because there's books out there that they're giants
Speaker 1: in the teens, you know, fourteen fifteen, so you're seeing
Speaker 1: that's kind.
Speaker 3: Of well, we cannot we cannot find any We stuck
Speaker 3: with what the art with reports that we could validate somehow, right.
Speaker 3: You know, there's a report from from where my grandmother
Speaker 3: was born in Pennsylvania, Bradford County, and there's a report
Speaker 3: that in a book, a county book, that says some
Speaker 3: men being a seller somewhere in Bradford County found a
Speaker 3: skeleton this twelve feet long. That's the account. So we
Speaker 3: actually did everything we could to look at all the
Speaker 3: newspapers to find every account from that county, and we
Speaker 3: couldn't find anything. It was simply in a local county
Speaker 3: historical book and that's literally what it said. Some men
Speaker 3: digging a seller in somewhere in Bradford County reported it,
Speaker 3: but we can't go any further with it, so that's
Speaker 3: not a validated report.
Speaker 1: We'll return shortly with my guests today, Greg Little, discussing
Speaker 1: his new book on Native American mounds and earthworks here
Speaker 1: in the United States.
Speaker 2: We'll be right back.
Speaker 1: My guest today is Greg Little, who has released a
Speaker 1: new book called Native American Mound and Earthworks Field Journal,
Speaker 1: and I just discovered it's on Amazon. It's available right
Speaker 1: now for purchase, and it just came out less than
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 2: It's about a month old.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you a question that I haven't asked
Speaker 1: you before that you feature in this field Journal, which
Speaker 1: I really appreciate.
Speaker 2: What are the types of mounds and earthworks?
Speaker 1: And number two and we're going to get into this
Speaker 1: in a minute, regarding nature in the energetics of nature,
Speaker 1: were the mounds built to enhance these tulluric fields? And
Speaker 1: if that's the case, I guess that would be for
Speaker 1: healing or what.
Speaker 3: Well. I think that what we know about the building
Speaker 3: of mounds, in the placement of them and the form
Speaker 3: and shape they took was controlled by shaman. That we
Speaker 3: know from the most recent stuff, which isn't recent, but
Speaker 3: we know that. I can't say the same is true
Speaker 3: for that made in nine thousand BC. I don't know.
Speaker 3: There's no way to say. And those are burial mounds,
Speaker 3: but we know this is weird. The oldest mound in
Speaker 3: America was aligned to point to the Star Arcturists. Really, yes,
Speaker 3: this is bizarre and it took me by completely. That's
Speaker 3: in the actual journal article. The one made in nine
Speaker 3: thousand BC is made to point to the Star Arcturists,
Speaker 3: and the one that Monte Sano, there are two there
Speaker 3: is aligned to point to the Star Arcturists at the
Speaker 3: time in that dates to five thousand BC. And we
Speaker 3: think it has to do with the path of Soul's journey,
Speaker 3: which is so complicated it's very astronomical. But a shaman
Speaker 3: would have to do that, just like the shaman had
Speaker 3: to align the newer earthworks and the newerk earthworks. Of course,
Speaker 3: it's a gigantic formation. It It boggles the mind how
Speaker 3: big it is. But it's made to chart the movements
Speaker 3: of the Moon on its eighteen point six one year
Speaker 3: lunar cycle. So the moon has it the only reliable
Speaker 3: points in the moon. You have to chart it through
Speaker 3: eighteen your years for it. They hit the exact same
Speaker 3: spot every eighteen point six one years. And the only
Speaker 3: way you could do that on the ground is they
Speaker 3: would build these gigantic geometric earth earthworks that had mounds
Speaker 3: placed on them. And we know they set pulls at
Speaker 3: specific spots where they could go somewhere or say on
Speaker 3: a circular earthwork that had a mound on it, and
Speaker 3: stand there and watch across the top of another mound
Speaker 3: and watch the lunar standstill, say at its southernmost point,
Speaker 3: or its northernmost point, or its most central point. So
Speaker 3: the earthworks in Newark, which date to about five hundred
Speaker 3: BC or two thousand, five hundred years ago, those are
Speaker 3: actually it's a huge circular earthwork, perfect circle that encloses
Speaker 3: twenty acres. The walls that it's perfectly flat to the
Speaker 3: walls that form this twenty acre circle are sixteen feet high.
Speaker 3: They're about seventy feet high seventy feet wide. So it's
Speaker 3: a wall of earth that then connects to an octagon
Speaker 3: of wall outer walls of earth. There's eight straight lines
Speaker 3: that form the octagon. Those are sixteen feet high two
Speaker 3: that's the average of them. Inside of each of the
Speaker 3: points of the octagon are truncated pyramids right inside the points,
Speaker 3: and that is what was used to chart the movements
Speaker 3: of the moon. But that only only goes back two thousand,
Speaker 3: five hundred years, but that has been duplicated at other
Speaker 3: sites that the mound builders made. So in two thousand
Speaker 3: to three thousand years ago they were making mounds, geometric earthworks,
Speaker 3: and mounds that were aligned to significant astronomical events. So
Speaker 3: go back to say the nine thousand. Those are small,
Speaker 3: relatively small, conical burial mounds about fifteen twenty feet high.
Speaker 3: They look like a cone again, and they were used
Speaker 3: for burials. And then as we move up through time
Speaker 3: around five thousand BC or so three thousand BC, along
Speaker 3: the coasts along both the Carolinas, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Alabama,
Speaker 3: parts of Mississippi, there were all these shell rings. The
Speaker 3: shell rings defy description. I can I'll send you photos illustrations,
Speaker 3: you can use those. They defy descriptions. A lot of
Speaker 3: those had to do with astronomical alignments to constellation stars whatever.
Speaker 3: I haven't run any anything on them, but some of
Speaker 3: them are aligned perfectly north south and then they have
Speaker 3: spokes coming out. They're very I mean, these are huge formations, gigantic.
Speaker 3: I mean Newark covers three square miles and then there's
Speaker 3: a double there's a wall of earth, parallel sets of walls.
Speaker 3: There are one hundred and seventy five It's a walkway
Speaker 3: that's one hundred and seventy five feet wide, about the
Speaker 3: width of a four lane highway that has a wall
Speaker 3: of earth on both sides. And it runs from Newark,
Speaker 3: Ohio to Chili Coffee, Ohio, fifty six miles, a fifty
Speaker 3: six mile straight line walkway, and there it connects to
Speaker 3: another circle and octagon like the one in Newark two thousand,
Speaker 3: five hundred years old. Amazing. I mean, it's astonished you
Speaker 3: never heard of this before. This is well, it's it's
Speaker 3: in the Mountain Cyclopedia you go to Ohio. But it's
Speaker 3: also I mean, these are yeah, okay, so these are
Speaker 3: these are called Hope Well and even the terms now
Speaker 3: that the terms are changing, they've changed numerous times, and
Speaker 3: part of it is hope. Well, it's named after a
Speaker 3: site near Chili Coffee and like the Adena named after
Speaker 3: a site near Chillicothee, Ohio. Four Ancient named after a
Speaker 3: site not too far from Chillicothe, Ohio. Ford Ancient Culture, Well,
Speaker 3: the Ford Ancient site isn't Ford Ancient Culture. I mean,
Speaker 3: it gets bizarre. It's it's absolutely bizarre. They've made Archaeologists
Speaker 3: have really created a huge confusion with this. They've tried
Speaker 3: to correct it, but they really haven't been able to
Speaker 3: because they still haven't got a grasp when all this yet.
Speaker 3: And I don't pretend to have a grasp because this
Speaker 3: is changing so rapidly and everything that we think we
Speaker 3: know is probably it's incomplete for sure, and it may
Speaker 3: be wrong.
Speaker 2: Might be just theories. Hey did me ask you again?
Speaker 1: What are the types of mounds? Because we have shell
Speaker 1: mounds out here. Yeah, there's dirt mounse, but what are
Speaker 1: other kind of mounds are?
Speaker 3: Well, okay, so I started by talking about the small
Speaker 3: conical mounds, conical mischnical mounds, burial mounds. Those started very early.
Speaker 3: The biggest ones are called a dina. They got gigant.
Speaker 3: So there are these burial mounds that eventually became these
Speaker 3: geometric earthworks that had associated burial mounds, and they literally
Speaker 3: are just called geometric earthworks with associated mounds. Sometimes they're
Speaker 3: platform mounds, so that's what that's what Kahoki is mounds.
Speaker 3: Most of them are at Kahoki, and most of the
Speaker 3: platform mouns are have flat tops. They are they are
Speaker 3: like pyramids. They have four sides, very well constructed. The
Speaker 3: sides generally are about twenty at twenty three twenty three
Speaker 3: and a half degrees, which is kind of significant. Some
Speaker 3: of them get very large. At Moundville, Alabama, for example,
Speaker 3: there are twenty platform mounds. It's twenty four platform mouns
Speaker 3: arranged around a huge plat flat plaza area with a
Speaker 3: giant platform mound in the center. So platform mounds people
Speaker 3: build structures on them. The elite lived there, the shaman
Speaker 3: lived there, the medicine people lived there, and around that,
Speaker 3: the other elite lived in houses, and then they had walls,
Speaker 3: protective walls, and then the commoners and so on lived
Speaker 3: around the edges on the outside of it. So that's
Speaker 3: another type. So you have the burial mounds, you have
Speaker 3: platform mounds, you have the geometric earthworks, and then there
Speaker 3: are ridge mounds ridge mounds. Some of those are at Kahokia,
Speaker 3: and i'll give you an example from Kohokia. Ridge mounds
Speaker 3: from the side look like a giant platform noun. They
Speaker 3: look just like a platform mount. But they're built like
Speaker 3: a V, like this a V. They're very narrow at
Speaker 3: the top. They have a ridge at the top, and
Speaker 3: we've done ceremonies on them, and the ridge is only
Speaker 3: two to three feet wide. So you walk to it
Speaker 3: and from that side over here it looks like it's
Speaker 3: a platform. You get up to the top, it's just
Speaker 3: a ridge. They can be two to three hundred feet long,
Speaker 3: so they're gigantic. So Kahokia, one of them is called
Speaker 3: Mound seventy two, and Mound seventy two they know was
Speaker 3: made in the year ten thirty. It's been very reliably dated.
Speaker 3: And in Mound seventy two they found what was clearly
Speaker 3: a chief or a king who died along with his
Speaker 3: wife you can call her, and he was laying on
Speaker 3: ten thousand shell beads and pearls that were shaped like
Speaker 3: a falcon. So his arms were outstretched on the wings
Speaker 3: of the falcon under him. His legs were at the
Speaker 3: tail of the bird. Associated with him were seven women
Speaker 3: that were buried alongside of them that were clearly important
Speaker 3: women because they had so many artifacts with them and
Speaker 3: so on, so they were sacrificed for The women were
Speaker 3: so well, I haven't got anything. Yeah, this is just
Speaker 3: the beginning of this. One ridge man, just one ridgeman.
Speaker 3: Next to that, there were twenty four more women that
Speaker 3: had been somehow killed. They were young, and they were
Speaker 3: in a separate grave area. Next to them. They were
Speaker 3: in a straight row, So there were twenty four women there.
Speaker 3: Next to them, there was another burial of nineteen women.
Speaker 3: Same thing next to them in this giant pit where
Speaker 3: fifty three women, all of whom had been strangled. They
Speaker 3: were all strangled. Some of them were buried alive, and
Speaker 3: they found that that that was the case that when
Speaker 3: they excavate them, they found the dirt under their fingernails
Speaker 3: and their skeletal remains were still clutching out dirt. And
Speaker 3: then next to that, we're fifteen other people. No, sorry,
Speaker 3: that was the fifty I'm still not the end. Next
Speaker 3: to that, we're thirty nine men and women tossed into
Speaker 3: a pit, all of whom had been violently killed. Their
Speaker 3: skulls were crushed, their jaws were crushed. A lot of
Speaker 3: them had arrows sticking in their ribs from the back.
Speaker 3: They were shot in their backs, and they were all
Speaker 3: killed violently. And next to them were fifteen other skeletal
Speaker 3: remains that they really couldn't identify if they were male
Speaker 3: or female. That's one ridge mound at Kahokia Wow Mound
Speaker 3: seventy two. I'll send you a picture of an illustration done.
Speaker 1: Was the leader who was the one who was in
Speaker 1: the main space? Was he identified as some great leader?
Speaker 1: Or was there any writing about the guy.
Speaker 3: Or no, there's no writing so that remember I said
Speaker 3: that Kahokia they believe that the Big Bang started around
Speaker 3: ten fifty ten fifty four, when the nebula exploded into
Speaker 3: a super nova, right, and it was seen in the sky. Well,
Speaker 3: the ten thirty is when this was dated to this mound.
Speaker 3: And they know, okay, this was an important chief who
Speaker 3: died about twenty years before, and then they sacrificed all
Speaker 3: these other people with them. You know, you're talking about
Speaker 3: the exact number two hundred and seventy two other people
Speaker 3: buried with him and his wife. Lounds like the Aztecs, Yes,
Speaker 3: it does so, and they believe that it is an
Speaker 3: Aztec influence then that came into Cohokia. Look it over
Speaker 3: built Monks Mound in less than fifty years and established
Speaker 3: a kingdom that's now the idea wow. And they do
Speaker 3: believe it was an Aztec influence. Whether it was actual
Speaker 3: Aztecs coming up that they don't know, but they know
Speaker 3: that all the way out in Oklahoma, Spiral, Oklahoma is
Speaker 3: connected to it in some of these mounds, another type
Speaker 3: of mounds. Spiral has another kind of mound to his
Speaker 3: chambers in it, and in those chambers they found hundreds
Speaker 3: and hundreds of welk shells that had been very carefully
Speaker 3: in size. The welk shells all come from a specific
Speaker 3: mound in Florida that my wife and I were too
Speaker 3: just this past winter. We went down there to this
Speaker 3: one and they all came from this one site. And
Speaker 3: that when they excavated that mound down in Florida, they
Speaker 3: found a storage area inside the mound that had about
Speaker 3: five hundred welk shells ready to be shipped up to
Speaker 3: be used in Kahokia or in spiral.
Speaker 2: We don't know enough this Dewey.
Speaker 3: No, it's changing really fast. The southwest, there's another type
Speaker 3: of it's a platform mound, but it's a perfect circle.
Speaker 3: The circular platform mounds have always been kind of enigmatic.
Speaker 3: They're now calling them water temple mounds. A water temple,
Speaker 3: and what a water temple was? It came up from
Speaker 3: It came up from the Maya and the Aztecs. That's
Speaker 3: what they're fairly certain about now. That they put a
Speaker 3: structure on it, and they built not exactly what we'd
Speaker 3: call a sweat lodge, but more of the kind that
Speaker 3: was used at places in the Yucatan where there were
Speaker 3: rituals going on there, and they simply brought that up.
Speaker 3: And they know the circular mounds now were water temples,
Speaker 3: but they had sweat lodges in them, something like a
Speaker 3: sweat lodge. They did use a lot of water there
Speaker 3: in these lodges. Again, this is new. None of this
Speaker 3: was in the stuff that I read in the eighties
Speaker 3: or the nineties, or the two thousands. Y're the two
Speaker 3: twenty tens. It's all fairly recent, and so things are
Speaker 3: changing really dramatically.
Speaker 1: Here I will that's go ahead.
Speaker 3: Is that it for the type, well, the types the
Speaker 3: platform mounds, burial mounds, the geometric earthwork, shell mounds. You
Speaker 3: have the bizarre geometric shell mounds that are just so enigmatic,
Speaker 3: but those are the basic types. Again, they were used
Speaker 3: by shaman. People lived on them, but they weren't made
Speaker 3: for the general population. Although Poverty Point, Louisiana, which has
Speaker 3: always been sort of an enigma, it was made around
Speaker 3: eighteen hundred BC. Poverty Point has a they used to
Speaker 3: call it a semi octagon. It has six raised rings
Speaker 3: of earth that had I want to say that it's
Speaker 3: thirty miles of these thirty miles of these they're about
Speaker 3: fifty feet twenty five feet wide, each fifty feet apart,
Speaker 3: and they make a huge semicircle. But they're not it's
Speaker 3: not connected. That's why they called it an octagon. They're
Speaker 3: not all connected. And there's a giant bird effigy there
Speaker 3: that's seventy two feet tall, and they all focus on that. Well,
Speaker 3: poverty Point for a long time they said, well, four
Speaker 3: or five thousand people lived there, that's what it was. Well,
Speaker 3: now the idea is Poverty Point, which is in southern
Speaker 3: Louisiana was a trading center, and it was a place
Speaker 3: where thousands and thousands of people lived. Probably ten to
Speaker 3: twenty thousand people lived in that immediate area. And that's
Speaker 3: where people from South America or Central America came up.
Speaker 3: It's where people from the East came over to trade
Speaker 3: and people from the Southwest came over to trade. So
Speaker 3: this is all relatively new too.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Big, and there's big arguments in stream archaeology about this,
Speaker 3: but slowly but sure. The things I'm saying are the
Speaker 3: is the side that's kind of winning the argument, and
Speaker 3: the argument's only between the old timers who say, no, no,
Speaker 3: none of this is true. You know what we believe
Speaker 3: fifty years ago was still the truth and it's not.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's the problem with archaeology. They have to
Speaker 1: study these out of date books to get their credential.
Speaker 1: Are the anthropology credential and then go on and become
Speaker 1: the archaeologist. Yeah, and they're just some of their steps outdated.
Speaker 1: We're going to take a commercial break to allow our
Speaker 1: sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly with
Speaker 1: my guest today, Greg Little, discussing the Native American mounds
Speaker 1: and earthworks.
Speaker 2: Greg Little is.
Speaker 1: My guest today who has written a new book on
Speaker 1: the mounds and earthworks of the United States and Native Americans.
Speaker 1: This is an important book for those of us who
Speaker 1: get out to these locations and want to know more
Speaker 1: about just what is happening and how to get impressions
Speaker 1: and keep that information for future use. I want to
Speaker 1: talk about a chapter that you included in this Field Journal, okay,
Speaker 1: called Harmony with Nature. And the reason I like it
Speaker 1: is you're you're jumping into a field that I really
Speaker 1: am curious about, which is subtle energy. And you talk
Speaker 1: about how the Shamans were unique and selected individual because
Speaker 1: they could feel this energy, they were connected with nature.
Speaker 1: Talk a little bit about that, how they were selected,
Speaker 1: and also what your belief is because you talk about
Speaker 1: how to go to these mounds and quiet yourself down
Speaker 1: a little bit and perhaps get a sense of the
Speaker 1: subtle energy or maybe the purpose for being in nature.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, they lived in a world that we really cannot understand.
Speaker 3: I know some people think they can find but they
Speaker 3: didn't have TV or radio or any of the devices
Speaker 3: we have today. They lived in nature. Every day, they
Speaker 3: looked at a sky and a nice sky, unimpeded by
Speaker 3: all the pollution we have today, including light pollution. They
Speaker 3: made their own tools, they made their own pottery, they
Speaker 3: made their own clothes, they made their own food. They
Speaker 3: had to have fire, they had to gather firewood. They
Speaker 3: lived in nature, and harmony with nature remains today the
Speaker 3: fundamental spiritual underpinning of virtually all of the Native American tribes.
Speaker 3: They're fighting the same thing that we're actually fighting today.
Speaker 3: We're getting so much into modern technology, we're losing touch
Speaker 3: with nature. And a lot of people say that's fine,
Speaker 3: and that's good and so on, and there's no way
Speaker 3: we can ever get into why. I don't think that's
Speaker 3: necessarily good. But the Navajo, for example, modern Navajo for example,
Speaker 3: are a very good example of why harmony with nature
Speaker 3: is important. It's for health, it's for spiritual connection, and
Speaker 3: so they believed everything was spiritual in nature. That's where
Speaker 3: it stars. Everything is spiritual in nature, animals, dirt, crystals, rock, water, fire,
Speaker 3: you name it. Everything is spiritual in nature, and harmony
Speaker 3: with it means you recognize the spiritual nature of these
Speaker 3: things and you respect it. You can still use resources,
Speaker 3: but you respect the resources. You don't destroy things just
Speaker 3: for the sake of destruction. You don't destroy nature, and
Speaker 3: we've kind of lost a lot of that today and
Speaker 3: the electromagnetic energy thing. Okay, So shaman were unique in
Speaker 3: that in that as they moved around through nature, they
Speaker 3: could sense the flow of spiritual energy. They believed that
Speaker 3: water was the movement and flow of spiritual energy. They
Speaker 3: believe that dirt was the most primordial type of spiritual
Speaker 3: energy that existed. Rock is solidified spiritual energy. Crystals are
Speaker 3: purified solidified spiritual energy which can be used to make
Speaker 3: contact with something bigger. So the spiritual world they saw
Speaker 3: is existing in two big forces. The two big forces
Speaker 3: are creation and disorder, or order and disorder or creation
Speaker 3: and entropy. Creation is making something from whatever's they are,
Speaker 3: creating something new, putting things together. Disorder is when things
Speaker 3: fall apart. So harmony with nature is to keep things
Speaker 3: going without them falling apart. It's fighting disorder. And these
Speaker 3: two forces in the universe are in constant conflict, disorder
Speaker 3: and order. And they saw that in the flow of
Speaker 3: the annual changes in the seasons. With trees, you know,
Speaker 3: the leaves fall and then the leaves become fertilizer and
Speaker 3: spring starts and the new leaves come out, and that's
Speaker 3: the cycle of nature. It's order from disorder. So they
Speaker 3: believed you had to harmonize with that, and it was
Speaker 3: something the tribe had to do in individuals. So the
Speaker 3: shaman connected with this, and they believed that where you
Speaker 3: lived you had to harmonize with nature. So they looked
Speaker 3: for places and specific spots where they could feel the
Speaker 3: flow of spiritual energy, and then they would direct the
Speaker 3: populace in how to shape the area where they lived.
Speaker 3: That is, where to put rocks, where to move them,
Speaker 3: where to build the mounds, where to have the earth
Speaker 3: and geometric forms that were going to be made to
Speaker 3: alter and change the flow of energy. So that's shaming.
Speaker 3: But for us, what I tell people is if you
Speaker 3: really want to connect, not everybody can do this, but
Speaker 3: you go to a site, you have to ground yourself
Speaker 3: at the site. And what does that mean, Well, you
Speaker 3: do a couple of things. One, don't have a cell
Speaker 3: phone with you have nothing electrical with you. It's a
Speaker 3: good idea if you can get to a site that
Speaker 3: has no cell phone connection, which is very difficult to
Speaker 3: do today. I've only been able to go to one
Speaker 3: of those in the last few years, and that was
Speaker 3: Hoven Wheep National Monument in Utah, and it's because it
Speaker 3: was in the middle of nowhere. But it's very hard
Speaker 3: to do that because you've got electromagnetic pollution. Then anyway
Speaker 3: you go to these sites, make sure you don't have
Speaker 3: anything electrical on you, and you literally ground yourself by
Speaker 3: taking some part of your body and touching the earth.
Speaker 3: It can be your heel. You can take a shoe off,
Speaker 3: take a sock off, put your heel in the ground,
Speaker 3: not grass, but make sure it touches the ground or
Speaker 3: even a finger. It doesn't matter anything to ground yourself.
Speaker 3: And the simplest way to do this. There are other
Speaker 3: techniques and I'll probably put those in some later of
Speaker 3: those well the field journal too, or field notes too.
Speaker 3: But the best way to do it is to close
Speaker 3: your eyes, take a few deep breaths and listen. You focus.
Speaker 3: You clear your mind by focusing on sound. And you
Speaker 3: do this by trying to localize whatever you hear. Like
Speaker 3: you might hear a bird in the distance, try to
Speaker 3: localize it in your mind, in your mind's eye. Keep
Speaker 3: your eyes closed, try to localize on the sound. Just
Speaker 3: do that. Do it for five minutes if you can,
Speaker 3: fifteen minutes if you can. That's it, And what will
Speaker 3: happen if you're able to do this. Not everybody can
Speaker 3: do it, and I think I know why as skeptics
Speaker 3: can do it if they happen to have the right
Speaker 3: brain chemistry. But do that, and you will feel something
Speaker 3: from the site. I'm not saying that, you know, so
Speaker 3: I'm alien being or little people or whatever will come
Speaker 3: out and interact with you. But you'll feel something from
Speaker 3: the site. You'll feel a connection. Different people feel different things.
Speaker 3: And now I've speculated, and I still believe. I speculated
Speaker 3: book of nineteen ninety four and articles in nineteen ninety
Speaker 3: two that it is the mineral magnetite that is found
Speaker 3: in the human brain. It was first identified in the
Speaker 3: human brain in nineteen ninety two. Carrier pigeons have it
Speaker 3: in their brain, and they believe that's how carrier pigeons
Speaker 3: can follow the magnetic fields of the Earth, and humans
Speaker 3: have it also, particularly in the limbic system of the brain,
Speaker 3: in the hippocampus, which is where memory is and it's
Speaker 3: also where the our emotional centers are. Some people I
Speaker 3: believe have too little magnetite, and they're not sensitive to
Speaker 3: the magnetic fields and the magnetic energies that are at sites.
Speaker 3: And there are people that are too sensitive, and there's
Speaker 3: actually a medically diagnostic term of magnetic sensitivity. Some people
Speaker 3: are so sensitive to magnetic fields that they can feel
Speaker 3: a magnet behind their head. It doesn't have to be
Speaker 3: a powerful magnet. And some people actually have all kinds
Speaker 3: of conditions from being electromagnetically sensitive, and that's the issue
Speaker 3: with them, And I believe it's because there is simply
Speaker 3: too much magnetite in their brain that is responding to it.
Speaker 3: It is genetic in its nature. It's not you can't
Speaker 3: eat magnetite and get it to win your brain. It
Speaker 3: has to occur when you're in the womb, when the
Speaker 3: fetus is developing. So that is my idea about it.
Speaker 3: Stick with that. There are other people that believe the
Speaker 3: same thing.
Speaker 1: So in essence, these people were really harmonizing, as you
Speaker 1: call it, with nature. They actually, by doing these techniques
Speaker 1: and also being connected to the animal life at that time,
Speaker 1: they actually were flowing with the seasons, weren't they.
Speaker 3: Yes, well, they had to because that meant survival to
Speaker 3: them now. The thing to people see them as very primitive.
Speaker 3: You gotta when you see these sites, you gotta be
Speaker 3: overwhelmed with how in the heck could they build some
Speaker 3: of this stuff. I mean, people that have never seen
Speaker 3: it have no idea how massive these mound sites are.
Speaker 3: They yet, for example, Egypt is very impressive. And I
Speaker 3: don't know the number now. The last time I looked,
Speaker 3: Egypt had one hundred and six pyramids. Do you know
Speaker 3: the number? Now? Offhand?
Speaker 2: I lost track day.
Speaker 3: It's probably one hundred and fourteen or so. Now something
Speaker 3: like that. Would you say, that's in the ballpark?
Speaker 2: I thought it was.
Speaker 1: I was capping it at a hundred, but I don't know.
Speaker 3: I think it was one hundred and four at one time.
Speaker 3: But anyway, okay, Kahokia alone had one hundred and twenty mounds.
Speaker 3: Kahokia and remember Monk's Mound is larger than the Great
Speaker 3: Pyramid and its base and just south of me, south
Speaker 3: of Memphis, at the site of Carson. Carson had eighty mounds,
Speaker 3: including some almost as big as those at Kahokia. They're
Speaker 3: all over the place. There were millions of them in
Speaker 3: North America alone, And you go, how the heck did
Speaker 3: these people do it when they're a hundred gatherers, you know,
Speaker 3: and a hundred gatherers, we think of them as primative,
Speaker 3: primitive people always after food because they're always starving. They're
Speaker 3: always starving. They can only get food, and they lived
Speaker 3: really primitive lives. They didn't they built permanent structures. They
Speaker 3: just didn't build them in stone. You know, you're not
Speaker 3: in Egypt not seeing the common people's houses. You're seeing
Speaker 3: the houses of the elite.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And here in America at the mounds, you're not seeing
Speaker 3: the houses of the common people. You're seeing the building
Speaker 3: structures of the elite. What they built on. But they
Speaker 3: built structures like we basically built in the United States today.
Speaker 3: You know, we build houses out of mainly out of wood,
Speaker 3: you know, and asphalt shingles, which you let that go
Speaker 3: a few hundred years and it won't be there anymore.
Speaker 3: We don't even you know, we're in Memphis. We're rebuilding
Speaker 3: a basketball stadium that was made for the Memphis Grizzlies
Speaker 3: in Memphis State back about twenty five years ago. Well,
Speaker 3: it's obsolete. It was built four hundred million dollars in
Speaker 3: and they're putting another four hundred and fifty million dollars
Speaker 3: now to try. And it's a basketball arena. That's because
Speaker 3: it's obsolete and no good. You know, we build these,
Speaker 3: we don't build anything to last here.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Hey, the book we're talking about is Native American Mound
Speaker 1: and Earthworks Field Journal number one. Greg, give us a
Speaker 1: few hints as we're closing here, as what you see,
Speaker 1: how you would like people to utilize the field guide
Speaker 1: portion of the book. Give us the sense of some
Speaker 1: of the questions you should be asking when you're doing
Speaker 1: a journal.
Speaker 3: Well, I'd like people to go to mountain sites. I'd
Speaker 3: like them to sport the sites. Archaeology. Archaeology needs money.
Speaker 3: The sites really are getting it's pitiful. I'm really sad
Speaker 3: about what's happening to our sites now. Most of the
Speaker 3: museums are closed. They're being closed for a different reason.
Speaker 3: They're calling it renovations, but they're pulling out most of
Speaker 3: the artifacts that they've had for decades, and it's because
Speaker 3: they're beginning to comply with the new regulations of the
Speaker 3: NAGPRA law, which was passed in nineteen ninety. You know,
Speaker 3: this is thirty four years after a law was passed
Speaker 3: they're starting to comply, so they're getting rid of a
Speaker 3: lot of the artifacts. I post a lot of the
Speaker 3: old artific facts online on Twitter or x every day
Speaker 3: I post some I have nineteen thousand posts the last
Speaker 3: time I looked, and most of those are artifacts. But
Speaker 3: I want to see people go to the site. Donate
Speaker 3: a few dollars there. Almost all the sites are free.
Speaker 3: Give them a few bucks to go in. Walk the
Speaker 3: site first, if you've never been to one, take a
Speaker 3: look at a go in the museum and see the
Speaker 3: film if they have one. But just walk the site
Speaker 3: and get a feel for it. Then sit down, close
Speaker 3: your eyes and listen a bit and see if you
Speaker 3: can connect to it, see if it's something you'd like
Speaker 3: to do. But basically, come to appreciate the Native American
Speaker 3: culture and the millions upon millions of people that were
Speaker 3: here in fourteen ninety two and in the fifteen forties
Speaker 3: until they all till ninety five percent of them died
Speaker 3: because of diseases, and then the rest of them we've
Speaker 3: always just sent them all out west, you know, the
Speaker 3: old Trail of Tears, and now we have three to
Speaker 3: four million Native Americans. Basically Native Americans left from what
Speaker 3: was once you know, probably thirty twenty five to thirty
Speaker 3: five million that lived up here at that time. But
Speaker 3: just connect with it, try to get an appreciation of it.
Speaker 3: It is the most unappreciated ancient culture that exists today,
Speaker 3: and it's because we weren't taught to appreciate it when
Speaker 3: we went to school. I wasn't. I'll bet you weren't
Speaker 3: either when you were in school, even in graduate school
Speaker 3: and in college. Nothing they told us nothing about it. Yeah,
Speaker 3: So that's what I want people to do. Just go
Speaker 3: and appreciate the site, and if you connect to it,
Speaker 3: you do. If you don't, that's okay.
Speaker 1: And write down your impressions and give us a sense
Speaker 1: of a couple of lines that we or bullet points
Speaker 1: where we would write. That would be help us memory
Speaker 1: with memory.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, make a little make a little sketch of
Speaker 3: the site, make a little sketch of your path through it.
Speaker 3: Write down whatever questions you might have had. That would
Speaker 3: be good. Write down what you think these mounds were
Speaker 3: used for, because some of them you're going to see
Speaker 3: at sites most sites have more than one mound. You're
Speaker 3: going to see a conical mound. Most of those were
Speaker 3: burial mounds, but not all of them. So make a
Speaker 3: note of what you think they are, and you might
Speaker 3: often find a display sign there that'll tell you what
Speaker 3: was found in that mound, and maybe make a sketch
Speaker 3: of what the building was on top of. Some of
Speaker 3: the platform mounts. Some of these platform mounds, like in Florida,
Speaker 3: there's one you can go to in Tampa. You can
Speaker 3: go to the actual mound that in the fifteen fifties
Speaker 3: the Spanish went and met with a king in it.
Speaker 3: There were two thousand people inside the temple built on
Speaker 3: top of this mound, two thousand people, and the Spanish
Speaker 3: wrote in their chronicles that this building could have easily
Speaker 3: held five thousand. You're talking about a building that would
Speaker 3: be a giant auditorium built on top of a mound,
Speaker 3: and they have a depiction of it at the mound
Speaker 3: what they believe it looked like a reconstruction made from
Speaker 3: what the Spanish chroniclers said they saw at this one mound.
Speaker 3: We're not talking about huts here. We're talking about very
Speaker 3: well made structure that were ornately made. They had full
Speaker 3: sized statues of people and warriors inside. They made marble
Speaker 3: statues in Georgia. At Edawad, Georgia, marble statues, ten of
Speaker 3: them were pulled out that were pairs, a male and
Speaker 3: female pair, and they found one other when they never
Speaker 3: found it was a male, they never found the female
Speaker 3: that went with it. Eleven marble statues pulled out of
Speaker 3: one mound in Georgia. Dozens of stone statues, very well made,
Speaker 3: were found in Tennessee and near Nashville out of mounds,
Speaker 3: pulled out of mounds, and a lot of these are
Speaker 3: in museums. They're not shown anymore because they were pulled
Speaker 3: out of burial mounds. But I post photographs of them
Speaker 3: on my x account or Twitter, and you really won't
Speaker 3: be able to see them anymore if you go into
Speaker 3: the museums, because they're not allowed to show them.
Speaker 2: Do you have those those sculptures in any of your books?
Speaker 3: You know, I do in a couple. You'll see that
Speaker 3: in the Mound Encyclopedia, the two most famous ones. You'll
Speaker 3: see under the page of Etowah, Georgia. You'll see a
Speaker 3: couple of those. You'll see some of them in Tennessee
Speaker 3: some of those pages. And when I did that book,
Speaker 3: I was not as focused on the artifacts I am
Speaker 3: very focused on artifacts now, and I'm in the process
Speaker 3: of doing the third edition of the Mounta Encyclopedia now,
Speaker 3: which will probably be seven hundred and fifty pages long.
Speaker 3: People have said, oh, you need to break it up
Speaker 3: in sections, but I can't do that because I'm going
Speaker 3: to put these artifacts in it. And my colleagues are
Speaker 3: pushing me to make a color book that shows the
Speaker 3: artifacts since people aren't going to be able to see
Speaker 3: them anymore. You won't be able to go in and
Speaker 3: see these anymore.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Greg, where can people go online to find where
Speaker 1: a mound is close to where they live?
Speaker 3: Well, actually, just put in and put Indian mounds and
Speaker 3: then put your state or your city Indian mounds near.
Speaker 3: For example, Pennsylvania has quite a few in the western
Speaker 3: part of the state. That's where I'm from. In Pennsylvania,
Speaker 3: most people think there were zero mounds there. Not true.
Speaker 3: Or if you're in West anywhere in West Virginia, just
Speaker 3: put the name of your town in and it'll show
Speaker 3: you where. Go to Google, ort do whatever. Sure, that's
Speaker 3: easier than finding my Mounta Encyclopedia. You know, buy that
Speaker 3: and take that thing and the book. Well, I mean
Speaker 3: that Graham Hancock. When he wrote his book and did
Speaker 3: his Netflix series, Graham carried a copy of the Mountain Encyclopedia,
Speaker 3: which he said in lots he's shown that in some
Speaker 3: of his videos that he's made of talks. He carried
Speaker 3: it in the backpack and he had the book Lost
Speaker 3: a Path of Souls because he has changed his ideas
Speaker 3: about Egypt now that the final journey of the soul
Speaker 3: wasn't just to Orion. It's pretty clear now that that
Speaker 3: was the first stop on the journey, and then they
Speaker 3: took the Milky Way toward the north and they went
Speaker 3: to Signus, and then they went somewhere else. That was
Speaker 3: a portal near Signus, and that's where our tourist comes in.
Speaker 3: But that's another story.
Speaker 1: Always informative to have you on the program, Greg, give
Speaker 1: us your website and give us an idea what you're
Speaker 1: up to, if you're lecturing anywhere, or you got any
Speaker 1: programs coming out.
Speaker 3: This next month in October, I'll be at Boca Raton,
Speaker 3: Florida with Andrew Collins and my wife. That is my
Speaker 3: last talk. I'm not doing any more conferences. I'll do
Speaker 3: some podcasts, but that's it. No more talks a conferences.
Speaker 2: You're still a kid.
Speaker 3: I'm done. I don't want to do anymore. I'm tired
Speaker 3: of it. I got nothing to do. I just want
Speaker 3: to write the I want to take the time write
Speaker 3: the books. I intend to travel a bit more. I've
Speaker 3: been doing a lot of that, going to the sites again.
Speaker 3: I'm publishing a lot of stuff that shows the way
Speaker 3: it was in nineteen eight the way for example, here's
Speaker 3: how it was in nineteen oh eight when the first
Speaker 3: photographs were taken. Here's how I saw it in nineteen
Speaker 3: eighty three and eighty four when we went to all
Speaker 3: these sites. Here's what it looks like now. And it's
Speaker 3: dramatically different, unreal changes in all those time frames. So
Speaker 3: I'm doing a lot of that, and I'm showing that
Speaker 3: on X and I'm on Facebook, I'm on Twitter. Put
Speaker 3: in and the best way to find me go to Google.
Speaker 3: Put in my full name and my middle initial, Gregory L. Little.
Speaker 3: Put that middle initial in because there's football players named
Speaker 3: Greg Little or Gregory Little, and you'll find them if
Speaker 3: you put in greg Little.
Speaker 2: What's the main website again.
Speaker 3: I'm basically the main one I'm really pushing is Twitter,
Speaker 3: But I'm on Facebook. Twitter is the main thing, and
Speaker 3: I've got forty thousand people on Twitter. The posts go
Speaker 3: some post at sixty seventy thousand views, and I know
Speaker 3: people are just amazed. These are people coming on that say,
Speaker 3: oh my god, I had no idea and they say
Speaker 3: this is right by me. I'm going, my god, it's
Speaker 3: really here. I can't believe it. And so if you
Speaker 3: get on my Twitter profile or X it's called X,
Speaker 3: you'll see nothing political. It's not a cesspool of horror.
Speaker 3: There's no cursing, there's no name calling, there's nothing like that.
Speaker 3: It's all mounds. Some of it is comparing American stuff
Speaker 3: to what's in other places. I have recently put in
Speaker 3: a lot of stuff from Orkney Islands and in Upper Scotland.
Speaker 3: I've put some things from the Southwest on it. There's
Speaker 3: a lot of archaeologists that come on and comment and
Speaker 3: make really good suggestions, and it was archaeologists that led
Speaker 3: me to this new material. It was mainstream archaeologists who
Speaker 3: are trying to push to the mainstream war. So it's
Speaker 3: not true that all mainstream archaeologists hate all historians like us.
Speaker 3: I am an allt historian. To some of the skeptics,
Speaker 3: you know, who don't like anything that non archaeologists do,
Speaker 3: but there's a group of them that really do support us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Greg Little, always a pleasure. Thank you so much,
Speaker 1: and let's get you back sooner than a year and
Speaker 1: a half to two.
Speaker 3: We'll do it again. Thank you so much, and thanks
Speaker 3: folks for listening.
Speaker 1: I was impressed enough with this interview and reading Gregg's
Speaker 1: new book, A Native American Mound and earthwork Field Journal,
Speaker 1: that I want to incorporate some of it into our
Speaker 1: future tours, our Earth Ancients tours.
Speaker 2: That we do each year.
Speaker 1: Not that anyone or everyone will use it. I could
Speaker 1: say some people might use it, but I want to
Speaker 1: make it available in our limited form so people can
Speaker 1: jot down impressions. And I think it's a good idea,
Speaker 1: I really do. And I'll tell you why. I have
Speaker 1: been touring now for over a decade, maybe longer actually
Speaker 1: I should say twenty years, and I agree with great.
Speaker 1: You take photographs, even videos, and maybe you get a
Speaker 1: hint of what you were experiencing, but if you had
Speaker 1: a few notes, it might lock it in a little
Speaker 1: better and also give you a better idea of what
Speaker 1: you were experiencing. Now what great suggests in terms of
Speaker 1: the subtle energy capture is even more interesting. That would
Speaker 1: be great to sit do a short meditation five to
Speaker 1: ten minutes or just close your eyes to fill the
Speaker 1: energy and then immediately immediately.
Speaker 2: Jot it down.
Speaker 1: That's body memory as well as brain memory, mind memory,
Speaker 1: spirit memory. And you know that that might be something
Speaker 1: to take account of and if you can put it
Speaker 1: in a journal, fantastic.
Speaker 2: I think that's a great idea.
Speaker 1: So well, see, I might experiment with this and report back.
Speaker 1: We have an upcoming tour are Sacred Temples of Mexico.
Speaker 1: It's November eight through the seventeenth. Hey, we've got a
Speaker 1: few spots left too. If you want more information in
Speaker 1: the full itinerary. It's a short tour, the last tour
Speaker 1: of the year. Go to earthacients dot com forward slash
Speaker 1: Tours t O U R S. It's gonna be located
Speaker 1: in the Yucatan Peninsula of Mexico.
Speaker 2: Is with his which is just.
Speaker 1: Packed with ruins, some of the largest cities in the
Speaker 1: world and great engineering and pyramids, wonderful pyramids. So come
Speaker 1: out and join us. You know it's important to jot
Speaker 1: this down and I mean Greg's been all over the world.
Speaker 1: He's been traveling a lot longer than I have, and
Speaker 1: so he's really one to judge and appreciate note taking.
Speaker 1: And if you do buy this book, he actually has
Speaker 1: a page where he shows you a sample of his journaling,
Speaker 1: his note taking of a sight. But anyhow, consider it
Speaker 1: and if you are wanting to try, go ahead, get
Speaker 1: the book. It's on Amazon right now, and go out
Speaker 1: to your local field or go to an archaeological site
Speaker 1: that's close to home. I'm needing to get out to
Speaker 1: these mounds and these earthworks, because there's nothing like it
Speaker 1: that I'm in San Francisco.
Speaker 2: He mentioned one.
Speaker 1: I mean, I know the one he's talking about at
Speaker 1: the very beginning of the show. He's talking about the
Speaker 1: Emoryville Native Shell Mound, but it's been reduced to it's
Speaker 1: behind a fence and you don't even know it as
Speaker 1: you drive by because it's been reduced to just a
Speaker 1: few feet above the surface. So anyhow, it's always fun
Speaker 1: to have Greg on the program, and I look forward
Speaker 1: to hearing from him again. Hey, if you're interested in
Speaker 1: touring with Earth Ancients, we're about ready to release our
Speaker 1: twenty twenty six tour schedule. We got one that's almost full.
Speaker 1: We're just about ready to close the door on it.
Speaker 1: It's our Easter Island tour with doctor Edwin Barnhardt, is
Speaker 1: scheduled from March fifteenth to the twenty third. That's gonna
Speaker 1: be obviously the first for the year, and then we
Speaker 1: were gonna be in the summer we'll be going back
Speaker 1: to Turkey, that's with Muhammed Imbraheem, and then we're gonna
Speaker 1: do Day of the Day in Mexico, which will be
Speaker 1: October twenty twenty six. So those are the three scheduled
Speaker 1: tours and I'll be posting information on each of those
Speaker 1: real soon, and we want to get that up and
Speaker 1: these are filling up really quickly.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you why.
Speaker 1: We're only taking a maximum of twenty people per tour,
Speaker 1: and this is what we're doing now because it's more flexible,
Speaker 1: more engaging for the participants and we can hang together
Speaker 1: on one bus and get the insight, get the extracurricular activities.
Speaker 1: It's much more fun, much more intimate, and and much
Speaker 1: more interactive. And that's why we're doing that. So again,
Speaker 1: those tours are coming up. If you want to come
Speaker 1: up with us to Earth to Easter Island. Go to
Speaker 1: Earthancients dot com forward slash tours. You can find all
Speaker 1: the tours there and all the details. If you have
Speaker 1: any questions, send me an email. Send it to Earth
Speaker 1: Ancients the number four of the letter you at gmail
Speaker 1: dot com and I'll get right back to you. All right,
Speaker 1: that's it for this program. I want to thank my
Speaker 1: guest today, doctor Gregory Little, has always a pleasure to
Speaker 1: have him, the team of Gail Tour, Mark Foster, and
Speaker 1: everyone who makes this thing happen. You guys rock, all right,
Speaker 1: take care of me well and we will talk to
Speaker 1: you next time.