Speaker 1: Hudson River Radio dot com.
Speaker 2: We could be worse.
Speaker 3: This is Kathleen Martam.
Speaker 4: You're listening to UFO Headquarters, Beautiful Headquarters, and welcome to
Speaker 4: another episode of the podcast that you must hear and
Speaker 4: listen to every week, every month, every day, UFO Headquarters
Speaker 4: on Hudson River Radio.
Speaker 2: Linda's laughing because I try to come up with these
Speaker 2: witty and I don't know. Today I was a little
Speaker 2: slow on it.
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 3: It's the cold.
Speaker 5: I was driven in from my office by the cold.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 1: We have had some interesting times the last couple of
Speaker 1: months in the Hudson Valley in New Jersey and now
Speaker 1: spreading all over the place, the drones and you know,
Speaker 1: I had one go buy near our house.
Speaker 3: It was four point thirty in the morning.
Speaker 1: It was very cold, and I heard some something that
Speaker 1: I hadn't heard before. And we live ten minutes from
Speaker 1: Stuart Airport, you know, which also has the Air National Guard.
Speaker 3: So there are.
Speaker 1: Civilian and military helicopters and small planes all the way
Speaker 1: up to those ginormous cargo planes. We hear all kinds.
Speaker 1: This was very different and it was loud, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh crap, maybe that's one. So I go running out
Speaker 1: in twenty two degree weather in my pajamas and it
Speaker 1: was not as big as a cessna, very very low,
Speaker 1: like little above tree top height and the At first
Speaker 1: I'm like, is this some kind of plane? What am
Speaker 1: I looking at? But you know, running lights often a
Speaker 1: white light in the front, and then the red and
Speaker 1: green the port and star so you know what direction
Speaker 1: a plane is headed by the what they were in
Speaker 1: a straight line?
Speaker 3: It was white.
Speaker 1: I can't remember if it was white green red or
Speaker 1: white red green, but they were very close together in
Speaker 1: a straight line.
Speaker 3: And I'm like, wait a minute, what the hell is that?
Speaker 1: What what good is port and starboard if they're in
Speaker 1: a straight you know, in a straight line. But it
Speaker 1: didn't make sense. And so I've seen a few too.
Speaker 5: It's bizarre.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so I have no reason to think they're
Speaker 1: anything but drones. You know, they look like drones, they
Speaker 1: sound like drones. Uh. You know a lot of people
Speaker 1: are seeing and photographing them, but a lot of people
Speaker 1: are contacting me they're they're alien spacecraft.
Speaker 3: Yeah, why why are you saying that? I mean, maybe, but.
Speaker 2: Yeah, why would aliens? I mean, assuming aliens were to
Speaker 2: come and make themselves so visible. Why would they pick
Speaker 2: you know, human manufactured drones or the human manufactured I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but a lot of people are saying,
Speaker 1: you know, because these craft are hovering, they're showing this
Speaker 1: great anti gravity technology. Or it's a quad copter that's you.
Speaker 2: And and drones can hover. That's one of the things
Speaker 2: that they're good at doing. Especially the more you know,
Speaker 2: my son's got to got drones early, early on years ago,
Speaker 2: when they were little. I mean, the technology is ancient now,
Speaker 2: but even then you could fly up and just let
Speaker 2: it hover and it would stabilize itself and yeah, so
Speaker 2: the battery ran out basically, and then it would return
Speaker 2: the base.
Speaker 5: But yeah, this shouldn't be a surprise.
Speaker 2: I mean, they use them the film movies and commercials
Speaker 2: and and all sorts of.
Speaker 3: Things and spy on people and spy on people.
Speaker 1: So so I got the idea, because I've been hearing
Speaker 1: all this anti gravity talk, that there is an interesting
Speaker 1: history to anti gravity. So everybody get get a pen
Speaker 1: and pad, because there might be some little interesting tidbits
Speaker 1: here the little you know. I love science, I love facts.
Speaker 1: But yeah, we'll talk a bit about the history of it.
Speaker 1: And so quick question to both you and Brian. Do
Speaker 1: you think our government has anti gravity technology?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 3: No, okay, Mike.
Speaker 2: I don't think they do, but I you know again, yeah,
Speaker 2: so they don't have it. I mean, I'm sure that
Speaker 2: if if the rumors of alleged spacecraft having been reverse engineered,
Speaker 2: there's a potential that anti gravity is a part of that.
Speaker 5: But I've never seen any solid evidence of this.
Speaker 6: No way to cancel out gravity. It's when you even
Speaker 6: when astronauts went to the Moon, as they left so
Speaker 6: called left Earth's gravity, it just gets weaker and weaker,
Speaker 6: and then the Moon's gravity started taking over to pull
Speaker 6: the craft towards the Moon.
Speaker 1: Which I will be tying, and that is called the
Speaker 1: everybody out the Lagrange point. I was going to mention
Speaker 1: that where it's an equilibrium of gravity, where are we
Speaker 1: going to.
Speaker 5: See the rock?
Speaker 6: You say Lagrange? I think it's easy top. But that's
Speaker 6: a whole nother story.
Speaker 2: Are you going to be bringing up at some point
Speaker 2: the World War two anti gravity?
Speaker 1: I wasn't, but feel free to bring that up.
Speaker 5: Let me talk about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well interject, So where did the whole idea of
Speaker 1: gravity come from?
Speaker 5: You?
Speaker 1: Know, there's that untrue legend of the apple hitting Isaac
Speaker 1: Newton in the head, so it probably didn't hit him
Speaker 1: in the head, but he did wonder why did apples
Speaker 1: and everything else falls straight down? And that was the
Speaker 1: summer of sixteen sixty six that he started getting the
Speaker 1: idea of some sort of force.
Speaker 3: And then on July.
Speaker 1: Seventh, sixteen eighty seven, he published Principia Mathematica. And I
Speaker 1: don't want people calling me and saying it's supposed to
Speaker 1: be Principia. I watched a I watched a whole show
Speaker 1: on the pronunciation of principia. During Isaac Newton's time, that
Speaker 1: would have been the because Latin was pronounced differently in
Speaker 1: the church in different times. So Principia Mathematica where he
Speaker 1: had his law of gravitation, which basically all matter, all
Speaker 1: particles attract other particles and it is directly proportional to
Speaker 1: their mass and inversely proportional to the square of the
Speaker 1: distance between them. Simply put, it just means the greater
Speaker 1: the mass, the stronger the pull. The farther away you
Speaker 1: are the less pull. So and Brian, you had mentioned
Speaker 1: on the moon a two hundred pound person on Earth
Speaker 1: would only weigh thirty two pounds. On the Moon, your
Speaker 1: mass is not changing, you haven't lost flesh, but it's
Speaker 1: only one sixth gravity, so your weight is different. And
Speaker 1: you also mentioned the you know the point where the
Speaker 1: Moon's gravity takes over. Yes, that's the lagrange point. It's
Speaker 1: about two hundred and thirty eight thousand miles to the Moon.
Speaker 1: About eighty five percent of that distance, or about about
Speaker 1: one hundred and ninety eight thousand miles, is the lagrange
Speaker 1: point where you'd be where the pull of the Moon
Speaker 1: is about the same as the pull of the Earth,
Speaker 1: and you go a little farther and then the Moon's
Speaker 1: gravity takes over and pulls you in. So that's just
Speaker 1: a little background on the ideas of gravity starting and
Speaker 1: why is it important If your space travel, you'd had
Speaker 1: better figure out gravity so you don't get stuck or
Speaker 1: pulled in somewhere.
Speaker 3: Or shot off some other direction.
Speaker 1: So this I was very surprised by this. So I
Speaker 1: love science fiction, I write science fiction. I just live
Speaker 1: and breathe science fiction. So I figured it was probably
Speaker 1: somebody like HG. Wells in the eighteen nineties who first
Speaker 1: wrote about anti gra gravity ships.
Speaker 3: Boy was I wrong?
Speaker 1: Anybody want to take a stab who hasn't looked at
Speaker 1: the notes?
Speaker 5: I actually didn't read that part.
Speaker 1: Oh, okay, either of you want to take a I
Speaker 1: would have to go with Jules Verne.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was gonna take guess Jewels.
Speaker 1: Okay, very good guess eighteen twenty seven. An American lawyer
Speaker 1: and author George Tucker, writing under the pseudonym Joseph Adderley,
Speaker 1: in his book Voyage to the Moon eighteen twenty seven,
Speaker 1: he had in his story he had a pressurized vehicle
Speaker 1: covered in anti gravity metal. That's pretty good for eighteen twenties, right,
Speaker 1: I think so.
Speaker 5: I give him a lot of credit for that. I
Speaker 5: know that's amazing.
Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, I'd like to read this book. So I
Speaker 1: love books. I love old books. Unfortunately, a first edition
Speaker 1: I saw for sale, not in very good shape, is
Speaker 1: currently fifteen thousand dollars, so I'll probably try to find it.
Speaker 3: I think there's a pdf of the just by one
Speaker 3: per year.
Speaker 5: I would try books or something, you.
Speaker 1: Know, Yeah, yeah, I can find the text. But so, yeah,
Speaker 1: so this covered in anti gravity metal, which we will
Speaker 1: get to at.
Speaker 3: The end of this.
Speaker 1: Uh this episode, what year was that?
Speaker 3: Linda eighteen twenty seven.
Speaker 2: So you know he's writing this to put it in
Speaker 2: context at a time when railroads are just starting to.
Speaker 5: Be a thing.
Speaker 3: That's a great point.
Speaker 2: And the main way of transporting things long distance would
Speaker 2: have been canals, so that would be his frame of reference.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and steamships. Are you know all of this is yeah,
Speaker 1: like this guy.
Speaker 5: Was, This guy was a I'm I can't believe he's
Speaker 5: not more well.
Speaker 3: Known, like, well, maybe he will be now I want.
Speaker 5: To read that too, so if you find it, let.
Speaker 1: Me know, right, So, how does this apply to ufology. Well,
Speaker 1: in the eight nineteen eighties, as we have covered on
Speaker 1: and on, the Hudson Valley had this incredible wave. Thousands
Speaker 1: and thousands of people witness massive craft the size of
Speaker 1: football fields hovering silently overhead for as much as twenty
Speaker 1: minutes and no down draft. And by that, you know,
Speaker 1: if you've ever been near a helicopter or under a helicopter,
Speaker 1: the down.
Speaker 3: Draft of the of the rotors.
Speaker 1: We do have vtall vertical takeoff and landing. And one
Speaker 1: of my greatest thrills was to see I think it
Speaker 1: was a Harrier take off dey rotate their engines the
Speaker 1: vectored thrust engines, so they just take off straight up
Speaker 1: and then angle the engines again and take off. So
Speaker 1: but they're as hell and you have all that thrt,
Speaker 1: you know, all that thrust coming out of there, but
Speaker 1: these were silent.
Speaker 3: There was no wind generally.
Speaker 1: Also, what was accompanying a lot of these was strong
Speaker 1: EMF power outages, cars stalling, radio static. So is theoretically,
Speaker 1: is there some way to negate the force of gravity
Speaker 1: in these craft because they're obviously showing some sort of
Speaker 1: anti gravity to hover silently with no physical signs of
Speaker 1: propulsion for twenty minutes or some people have speculated a
Speaker 1: some sort of bubble around the craft that repels you know, gravity,
Speaker 1: feels some sort of anti gravity or is it something
Speaker 1: completely different We don't understand. I think I'd like to
Speaker 1: vote for that at the moment. And then the other thing,
Speaker 1: is this alien interdimensional technology or is it something we
Speaker 1: have that was reverse engineered And a lot of people
Speaker 1: think that, so, you know, and then there's all these
Speaker 1: metamaterial things we've heard about lately, and that's something we'll
Speaker 1: also talk about at the end. So there's just a
Speaker 1: lot of questions. Don't expect any answers tonight. But it's
Speaker 1: something worth looking into. So why don't we take our
Speaker 1: first break before we get a little further into all
Speaker 1: of this. Hudson River Radio dot com.
Speaker 2: This is Hudson River Radio dot com. So very very
Speaker 2: interesting conversation here, Linda, And we're using the term anti gravity.
Speaker 2: But as I'm listening to the different things you mentioned,
Speaker 2: I wonder if anti is probably not the right way
Speaker 2: we should maybe counter gravity or because it seems like
Speaker 2: and I think Brian you pointed it out very well
Speaker 2: at the beginning. You know, gravity is there no matter
Speaker 2: what we do, we can't stop the gravitational pull the Earth.
Speaker 2: But is there something that's countering that gravitational pull? Thereby
Speaker 2: it's basically negating what the Earth is doing? So you know,
Speaker 2: to me, anti gravity always sounds like, well we can't
Speaker 2: We're like somehow I don't know, stopping gravity for a
Speaker 2: moment's or thinking float, But it seems like there's a
Speaker 2: there there potentially would be a way to produce a
Speaker 2: force greater than what the force of our gravity is.
Speaker 2: So I would imagine, yeah, it's called flying, yes, that's.
Speaker 5: But doing it without but doing it.
Speaker 1: Without like without fuel a right, like, what else?
Speaker 5: What other ways could they do this?
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's what. Surprisingly, a lot, well or not surprisingly,
Speaker 1: a lot of money has been poured into this and
Speaker 1: a lot of people have been researching it for probably
Speaker 1: a lot longer than you would imagine. But yeah, some
Speaker 1: of the examples twenty fifteen from the USS Roosevelt off
Speaker 1: the Florida coast. The navy pilots who saw the gimbal Ufo,
Speaker 1: I'm sure everybody has seen that.
Speaker 3: It's rote. They're like, god, my god, it's rotating.
Speaker 1: And just no signs of you know, no wings and
Speaker 1: jet and you know, exhaust. And this was going against
Speaker 1: one hundred and thirty eight mile per hour wind, so
Speaker 1: it wasn't a balloon hanging out there. And Luis Elizondo
Speaker 1: had said about the gimbal was a great glittering mystery.
Speaker 1: It was clearly an anti gravity device, okay. And this
Speaker 1: is a man who worked on these cases. So again,
Speaker 1: no control surfaces. You had the famous tic TAC from
Speaker 1: two thousand and four. Things that just shouldn't be up
Speaker 1: in the sky maneuvering and hovering. So I knew.
Speaker 3: I knew.
Speaker 1: Our good friend Michael Schrat who's been on our show.
Speaker 1: I think at least twice. Great guy has been so
Speaker 1: helpful to me anytime. He just sent me a great
Speaker 1: batch of never before seen or haven't been seen for
Speaker 1: thirty forty years cases from the Hudson Valley.
Speaker 3: He's always been so helpful. So I said, shot.
Speaker 1: I know it's you know, holiday season when we're recording this,
Speaker 1: but I shot him an email. You must have done
Speaker 1: something on anti gravity and you know ten minutes there. Oh,
Speaker 1: here's my two part series on that. So I watched it.
Speaker 1: I would recommend people go to YouTube. Michael shrat sc
Speaker 1: hr att Man made UFOs the electro Electrical Connection. It's
Speaker 1: two parts and some of the things I pulled out
Speaker 1: of there. Two cases I want to mention, and then
Speaker 1: we'll go into why I'm mentioning them. Smithtown, New York,
Speaker 1: which is on Long Island, October ninth, nineteen seventy two,
Speaker 1: a woman sees a craft that looked like the bottom
Speaker 1: of an iron like you know your iron clothes iron
Speaker 1: type thing that's shape with some lights on it, but
Speaker 1: sticking up out of the back were two poles with
Speaker 1: a wire connecting them, and it did have a red
Speaker 1: light for port and a green for starboard sounds very
Speaker 1: man made, right, and Michael was saying, it reminds him
Speaker 1: of the lifters using electro gravitics, which we will get into.
Speaker 1: Townshend Brown. We'll get into him. Townshend Brown was a
Speaker 1: fascinating character. Thought he had discovered anti gravity force using
Speaker 1: high voltage electricity. You can look up the Beefeld Brown effect.
Speaker 1: We'll talk a little more about that. Hopefully people are
Speaker 1: frantic they have either thrown their pen and paper away
Speaker 1: at this point or are frantically taking notes to look
Speaker 1: these things up. Then, in November of nineteen ninety four
Speaker 1: and rept in England, a witness saw it was kind
Speaker 1: of a disc, but kind of horseshoe shaped and very unusual,
Speaker 1: had a notch cut out of the back of it,
Speaker 1: about sixty feet long, but the under side was covered
Speaker 1: in tubes and pipes. Doesn't sound very aerodynamic, you know.
Speaker 1: Odd that a UFO, but we've heard that a lot.
Speaker 1: And Michael was saying, maybe it's some sort of super
Speaker 1: cooling superconductor type apparatus, which so just remember electro gravitics
Speaker 1: and superconductor.
Speaker 3: We will we will get back to those a little later.
Speaker 1: So one book everybody's mentioned whose talks about this is.
Speaker 1: The Hunt for the Zero Point by Nick Cook came
Speaker 1: out I think early two thousands and the subtitle is
Speaker 1: inside the Classified World of Anti gravity Technology. So I
Speaker 1: found some sample pages online and somebody he now Nick Cook.
Speaker 1: If you're not familiar with him, he was a senior
Speaker 1: editor at Jane's Defense Weekly. You can't get a much
Speaker 1: more serious. If you don't know Janes, look that up.
Speaker 1: He was the aerospace editor. And one day somebody put
Speaker 1: this article from nineteen fifty six. Let me say that again,
Speaker 1: fifty six. They put it on his desk. It was
Speaker 1: an article by Michael Gladych called the g Engines are coming,
Speaker 1: and by g engines, it's gravity. And he thought it was,
Speaker 1: you know, somebody playing a joke. But he started reading
Speaker 1: the article and there were some quotes that by far
Speaker 1: the most potent source of energy is gravity. Using its power,
Speaker 1: future aircraft will attain the speed of life. It went
Speaker 1: on to say, nuclear powered aircraft are yet to be built.
Speaker 1: Member this is fifty six, but there are research product
Speaker 1: projects already underway that will make super planes obsolete before
Speaker 1: they are test flown. For in the United States and Canada,
Speaker 1: research centers, scientists, designers, and engineers are perfecting a way
Speaker 1: to control gravity, a force infinitely more powerful than the
Speaker 1: mighty atom. The result of their labors will be anti
Speaker 1: gravity engines working without fuel, weightless airliners, and spaceships able
Speaker 1: to travel at one hundred and seventy thousand miles per second. Okay,
Speaker 1: so this was not a science fiction article. This is
Speaker 1: talking about real projects that, according to the information this
Speaker 1: journalist had that by the time we perfect nuclear propulsion,
Speaker 1: it's going to be obsolete by gravity engines. All right,
Speaker 1: let me read a few more. This gravity research. It's
Speaker 1: not by you know, ACME Company, Wiley Coyotes, ACME anti
Speaker 1: gravity Engines. It was from the Martin Aircraft Company later
Speaker 1: to become Lockheed Martin Bell Aircraft. Okay, the ones who
Speaker 1: brought you the plane that broke the sound barrier. Another
Speaker 1: name that might ring a Bell Lear, who ten years
Speaker 1: later the the Lear Jet, and several other American aircraft
Speaker 1: manufacturers who would not spend millions of dollars on sign fiction.
Speaker 1: There was a quote from Lawrence D. Bell, the founder,
Speaker 1: who said, we're already working on nuclear fuels and equipment
Speaker 1: to cancel out gravity. George Trimble, who was the head
Speaker 1: of Advanced Programs and the vice president in charge of
Speaker 1: gravity projects at Martin Aircraft, said that the conquest of
Speaker 1: gravity quote, could be done in about the time it
Speaker 1: took to build the first atomic bomb. All right, these
Speaker 1: are some heavy hitters in aerospace who are working on
Speaker 1: these projects and pretty certain. In fact, Bill Lear said
Speaker 1: that all matter within the ship would be influenced by
Speaker 1: the gravitation only this way, no matter how fast you
Speaker 1: accelerated or changed course, your body would not feel it
Speaker 1: anymore than it now feels the tremendous speed and acceleration
Speaker 1: of the Earth. You would be able to take off
Speaker 1: like a cannon shell, come to a stop with equal abruptness,
Speaker 1: and the passengers wouldn't even need seat belts.
Speaker 3: Okay, so that's wild.
Speaker 1: This is yeah, this is very wild. But we're talking
Speaker 1: fifty six now that major aerospace companies are pretty certain.
Speaker 1: You know this doesn't sound like well, maybe in the
Speaker 1: next generation. They're talking about probably in a few years. Also,
Speaker 1: in addition to Bell and Lear, Conveyor Sperry universities like
Speaker 1: Princeton and Purdue. Bell said we're going to cancel out
Speaker 1: gravity rather than fight it. Pratt and Whitney were working
Speaker 1: on it Boeing and of course tons of Black Project dollars.
Speaker 1: You know that the Defense Department. We don't know where
Speaker 1: that went. We can't tell you where those trillions of
Speaker 1: dollars went. So this is this is big news. And
Speaker 1: that Trimble. I watched a Nick Cook interview, the one
Speaker 1: who wrote the book The Hunt for the Zero Point,
Speaker 1: and he wanted to talk to Trimble. And this he
Speaker 1: would have been in his eighties by this point, and
Speaker 1: he had a contact who found him. And at first
Speaker 1: the guy says, sure, you know, I'll talk to you.
Speaker 1: And then before the interview took place, he gets a
Speaker 1: call from his contact. Yeah, he's a little spooped. He
Speaker 1: doesn't want to talk to you. Now, he says, leave
Speaker 1: me alone, don't ever contact. Something happened from the time
Speaker 1: he said, yeah, I'll talk about our work with anti gravity,
Speaker 1: to leave me alone. I'm not going to talk about it.
Speaker 1: Perhaps somebody little whisper in his ear.
Speaker 5: Uh, the men in black showed up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, something suspicious. And as he said, if he wasn't
Speaker 1: interested in the topic before, he certainly was now. Because
Speaker 1: you know, a journalist doesn't want to hear anything more
Speaker 1: than I'm not telling you anything, which means there's something
Speaker 1: to tell you. So what do you think of all that?
Speaker 1: Were you aware of how much was going on in
Speaker 1: the fifties with this.
Speaker 5: No, that's I think what's surprising.
Speaker 2: I mean, I know, the fifties is when the really
Speaker 2: when the commercial airline industry starts to boom, I believe it,
Speaker 2: or starts to that post war period. You know, flying
Speaker 2: becomes much more accessible. But I didn't realize that all
Speaker 2: these companies were vesting in research of, first of all,
Speaker 2: nuclear fueled aircraft. But then you know, this whole idea
Speaker 2: of anti gravity. I like, I like the statement we're
Speaker 2: not going to fight gravity, We're going to cancel it.
Speaker 3: Hancel it, you know.
Speaker 2: I think that says a lot about what they were
Speaker 2: looking to do. Yeah, I would think if they did
Speaker 2: accomplish that, that we would know about it, because that
Speaker 2: would be technology that wouldn't necessarily be shared with the
Speaker 2: you know, the the airbus A three eighty seven or
Speaker 2: that you're taking the LON.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Michael Schratz says he believes that we cracked the gravity barrier.
Speaker 1: What is also interesting is that these were articles in
Speaker 1: norm You know, there was an article in the young
Speaker 1: Man magazine.
Speaker 3: You know that.
Speaker 1: You know, it wasn't just buried in scientific journals. These
Speaker 1: were in common magaz scenes. But then a couple of
Speaker 1: years later, it's like the door closed. Nobody was talking
Speaker 1: about it because all the research went dark. Did that
Speaker 1: mean they found it, that just went dark? I don't know.
Speaker 3: But let's take our.
Speaker 1: Second break and then come back, go to a little
Speaker 1: more details and find out about a researcher who kind.
Speaker 3: Of went missing. This is Hudson River Radio dot com,
Speaker 3: your local Rockland County station.
Speaker 1: This is Hudson River Radio dot com.
Speaker 2: So we're back talking about this anti gravity and Linda,
Speaker 2: you got my head really going in thirty different directions
Speaker 2: here thinking, you know, if if you just take that
Speaker 2: leap and say, okay, say all these companies investing in
Speaker 2: this research, do indeed find a way to cancel gravity.
Speaker 2: It's something the government's not going to let out, especially
Speaker 2: at the height of the Cold War in the fifties,
Speaker 2: like you know, we're we're ready to go to a
Speaker 2: nuclear war with the Russians any day. You know, people think,
Speaker 2: so I can imagine, would we really have released that
Speaker 2: we have this technology, let alone allow it to get
Speaker 2: out there and to the hands of the people we
Speaker 2: think our our enemies, whether it's the Russians or the
Speaker 2: Cubans or you know. So I can imagine that being
Speaker 2: a hush hush, like, hey, we never found anything.
Speaker 5: You didn't see.
Speaker 3: It, and yeah, nothing to see here, move along exactly.
Speaker 2: I mean that's looking at it in the context of
Speaker 2: the Cold War. You know, that would be a major discovery,
Speaker 2: discovery of a millennia, the ability to cancer out cancel
Speaker 2: out gravity. So I would imagine if they did, we
Speaker 2: would never know about it because it would have been
Speaker 2: ushered away into a secret lab somewhere that maybe still
Speaker 2: is working on it today.
Speaker 1: Yes, well, let's go up into the nineteen eighties. Then
Speaker 1: there is a physicist, doctor Ning Lee. She was born
Speaker 1: in China, but in eighty three she moved to Alabama
Speaker 1: to you might say, what she doing there. Well, there's
Speaker 1: a little town called Rocket City, Huntsville, Alabama. Just I
Speaker 1: love I love Huntsville because there's a Saturn five standing
Speaker 1: there in the middle of the middle of town, which
Speaker 1: should have gone to the moon. But I'm trying to
Speaker 1: get over that bitterness of that. But anyway, she worked
Speaker 1: for a place called the Center for Space, Plasma and
Speaker 1: Aeronomic Research. Okay, anybody understand that aeronomic means up basically
Speaker 1: upper at me. So it's a part of the University
Speaker 1: of Alabama. And her specialty was anti gravity research with
Speaker 1: Douglas Tour. They published numerous papers, and she believed, and
Speaker 1: this is her word, she had a practical way to
Speaker 1: produce anti gravity. And this is what they said, by
Speaker 1: rotating iron ions creating a gravet a gravito. Let me
Speaker 1: start that over rotating ions creating a gravito magnetic field
Speaker 1: perpendicular to the spin access. Well, that's much clearer now
Speaker 1: to everybody. Basically using superconductors to create a strong repulsive force. Okay,
Speaker 1: now that rept in England case with that kind of
Speaker 1: horseshoe shaped thing that Michael Shrat thought all those pipes
Speaker 1: might have been the super cooling for a super conductor.
Speaker 1: Now she was working with little things, you know, the
Speaker 1: size of hockey pucks. Imagine a sixty foot superconductor. You
Speaker 1: know what that could do? So interesting. She was always publishing,
Speaker 1: speaking at conferences, she was everywhere. In nineteen ninety nine,
Speaker 1: she left the university to form her own company, ac Gravity,
Speaker 1: got a Department of Defense contract four hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: thousand dollars to test her theories. Of course, that's pocket
Speaker 1: change for the DoD. But still, then she seemed to disappear.
Speaker 1: She was never seen at conferences anymore, stopped publishing, nobody
Speaker 1: could contact her. There were rumors she took all her
Speaker 1: secrets and went back to China. So I was watching
Speaker 1: some contemporary repose. She's disappeared, She's fallen off the face
Speaker 1: of the earth. What happened to doctor ning Lee? Well,
Speaker 1: actually she just probably the DoD said, yeah, you're not
Speaker 1: doing public conferences anymore. Yeah, where we're not paying you
Speaker 1: to then present your findings to everybody. She kept working
Speaker 1: and then this is interesting and tragic. In twenty fourteen,
Speaker 1: she and her husband are walking across the street on
Speaker 1: the university campus and she was hit by a car.
Speaker 1: Caused a severe brain damage. She was bedridden for six
Speaker 1: years and finally died in twenty twenty one. I could
Speaker 1: not find any details on this car accident. I don't know,
Speaker 1: Maybe it was just an accent, but it reminded me
Speaker 1: of doctor John Mack, the Harvard psychiatrist, you know who
Speaker 1: wrote about abductions, who was hit by a drunk driver
Speaker 1: in London walking across the street. So sometimes researchers, you know,
Speaker 1: throw themselves out of windows, and.
Speaker 3: It's a dangerous occupation.
Speaker 1: It is, it is, But yeah, so it's she was.
Speaker 1: There was a Russian scientist who claimed to have used
Speaker 1: her theories to decrease the force of gravity by like
Speaker 1: three or four percent, which may not sound like much,
Speaker 1: but if you can decrease gravity point five percent, if
Speaker 1: you can do anything to decrease gravity, that's that's a
Speaker 1: big beat deal. So yeah, so you can all look
Speaker 1: up ningly Ni n g l I just a brilliant woman.
Speaker 1: And the thing about her, she wasn't looking to do
Speaker 1: this to become, you know, a billionaire.
Speaker 3: She wanted this all to be free.
Speaker 1: For the whole world to use, because it would if
Speaker 1: you could crack this, you know, you would have all
Speaker 1: sorts of free energy and free trans you know, or
Speaker 1: very inexpensive transportation all of that. So that was nice
Speaker 1: of her. That was her goal. Unfortunately, her life was
Speaker 1: kind of cuts well, I don't know how she was
Speaker 1: in her seventies, but still somebody like that dying because
Speaker 1: of a of a car accident and the last thing
Speaker 1: I want to talk about. I know I have mentioned
Speaker 1: this before on one of our shows. It was a
Speaker 1: project blue book case that I came upon that just
Speaker 1: blew my mind. Remember I mentioned Townsend Brown, Thomas Townshend
Speaker 1: Brown earlier with the electro gravitics. He was a physicist
Speaker 1: born nineteen oh five in Ohio. In high school in
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty one. He must had very nice parents. They
Speaker 1: built him a home laboratory. I would have killed for
Speaker 1: a home laboratory when I was a kid.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: I used to take all the household chemicals in cleaning
Speaker 1: products and mix them together. And fortunately I never blew
Speaker 1: up anything or burned anything down. But oh my god,
Speaker 1: to have his own lab and he I mean, this
Speaker 1: wasn't just test tubes and chemicals, all of these electrical things.
Speaker 1: It was quite the lab. And he believed at age
Speaker 1: round sixteen that he had created an anti gravity effect
Speaker 1: with electricity. He continued on this research for years, tried
Speaker 1: to interest different scientists, and he came up with this
Speaker 1: thing he called electro gravitics, also known as the Beefeld
Speaker 1: Brown effect, where he had metal plates a series of
Speaker 1: stacked metal plates. He ran two hundred thousand volts through
Speaker 1: them and claimed it had an anti gravity effect. Modern
Speaker 1: scientists say no, it was just what they describe as
Speaker 1: an ion wind against air particles, so they say it's
Speaker 1: something had nothing to do with gravity. Some people still
Speaker 1: think he was onto something. But remember that nineteen seventy
Speaker 1: two case in Long Island with the thing that looked
Speaker 1: like an iron and had the polls with the wires. Well,
Speaker 1: that's one of the things that you can test this
Speaker 1: electro gravitix with. Run a current through and it lifts
Speaker 1: this little object. So was somebody you know, trying to
Speaker 1: somebody in the government or university. Was this a test craft?
Speaker 1: So he was obviously brilliant, lifelong interest in gravity, and
Speaker 1: he is asked to consult. In September of nineteen sixty
Speaker 1: some pieces of metal fell from the sky in Connecticut
Speaker 1: at two different locations, September second and fourth. And I
Speaker 1: know we've mentioned this because so people are seeing multiple
Speaker 1: witnesses this like green flame. Is this object's coming down
Speaker 1: from you know, obviously a space or very high altitude
Speaker 1: to be in flames and it it one of the
Speaker 1: pieces lands in somebody's driveway, another hits a shed and
Speaker 1: sets it on fire, and Project Blue Book said, nothing
Speaker 1: to see here, we tested it.
Speaker 3: It's furnace slag.
Speaker 1: So how furnace slag gets launched into the atmosphere so
Speaker 1: that it can then come down fly?
Speaker 2: I mean, please, those unidentified flying furnaces are just they.
Speaker 3: Are They just mess everything up.
Speaker 1: So if you just read the report card, the little
Speaker 1: index card type thing on this case dismissed as furnace flag,
Speaker 1: that's it. But once they released all of the Project
Speaker 1: Blue Book cases, you found out there was a seventy
Speaker 1: three page report. Wow, that's a lot of pages for
Speaker 1: furnace slag. So I sat there and read every single one.
Speaker 1: And Townsend Brown is writing to this professor who studied it,
Speaker 1: saying that the samples, at least on the exterior they
Speaker 1: hadn't cut into them yet, aluminum with very high concentrations
Speaker 1: of barium and strontium, they said, amazingly high percentages. They
Speaker 1: didn't quite know what it meant, but highly unusual, lots
Speaker 1: of buzz, lots of letters in the file. I recommend
Speaker 1: you can find Project Blue Book cases read these for yourself.
Speaker 1: Clearly they thought this was all very very important. Got
Speaker 1: all these they got the head of Blue Book, involved
Speaker 1: major friend. They got Fred Whipple, who was I think
Speaker 1: with was it Yale? He was a meteor researcher, all
Speaker 1: these different scientists.
Speaker 3: But here's here's the kicker.
Speaker 1: And know we talk about meta materials, we talk about
Speaker 1: the eighteen twenty seven anti gravity metal. Well maybe there
Speaker 1: really was anti gravity metal because Townsend Brown wrote in
Speaker 1: one of his letters, the continuing change in weight is
Speaker 1: startling and indisputable. It has lost three percent. This is
Speaker 1: one of the metal samples and is still decreasing. Now,
Speaker 1: things can lose weight for a variety of reasons. But wait, wait,
Speaker 1: here we go. A most surprising recent finding is that
Speaker 1: the material appears to have the power to induce a
Speaker 1: weight change in certain receptor materials with which with which
Speaker 1: it is associated. We now have an example of tenfold
Speaker 1: leverage in the gross weight change of a large volume
Speaker 1: of material, induced merely by contact or close proximity with
Speaker 1: the sample. Many other intriguing facts are coming out in
Speaker 1: this investigation. My response was something like, what the hell. Okay,
Speaker 1: it's one thing. Maybe it's losing gap, maybe it's radiation,
Speaker 1: you know something. But how does a sample of a
Speaker 1: metal that furnace lag that fell out of the sky
Speaker 1: cause all this material around it to start losing weight.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm at a loss. Yeah, do go back to
Speaker 2: the go back to the anti gravity metal like you
Speaker 2: mentioned from the eighteen twenties and something.
Speaker 1: You know, it's one thing to have a sample that's
Speaker 1: losing weight, but where he said, a large volume of
Speaker 1: material merely that's merely in contact or close proximity. So
Speaker 1: I'm just picturing they've got this on a on a
Speaker 1: lab bench, and what is glassware losing weight?
Speaker 4: Is?
Speaker 1: You know, is their notebook losing we what is going?
Speaker 1: What is a large volume of material is losing weight
Speaker 1: that's in close proximity to this sample. So he talks
Speaker 1: about you know, he's telling people, you know, I look
Speaker 1: forward to sharing our final report.
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh my god, this is great.
Speaker 1: And the file ends, of course, So does it still
Speaker 1: exist somewhere? What kind of material was this? Was it
Speaker 1: again something we reverse engineered? Was it something extraterrestrial that
Speaker 1: fell out of the sky that had these amazing properties?
Speaker 1: I don't know, But I don't know why more people
Speaker 1: aren't looking at this particular blue book case. I think
Speaker 1: they're just looking at Oh, it was furnace lag and
Speaker 1: there's a lot of chemistry in there.
Speaker 3: I'm not going to look at that.
Speaker 1: But scientists out there, researchers look up this case Connecticut,
Speaker 1: September of nineteen sixty. You can read all the reports
Speaker 1: that are there, you know, and many other fascinating things
Speaker 1: are coming out about this material. God, i'd like to
Speaker 1: see this final report.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's fascinating.
Speaker 1: So I don't know, what do you think. I'm still
Speaker 1: skeptical that we have anti gravity. We may have done
Speaker 1: things that you know, minimal, that kind of a basic
Speaker 1: repulsive force, but I think the fact that it's still
Speaker 1: being studied and people still don't want to talk about it,
Speaker 1: and that I've yet to see a jets and car,
Speaker 1: you know, flying around, I don't know. I am still
Speaker 1: highly skeptical that we completely cracked the gravity barrier.
Speaker 2: The energy involved, the energy involved alone to do that
Speaker 2: with what we have, we'd probably outweigh any benefit from
Speaker 2: the anti gravity. I mean, think about how much force
Speaker 2: we have to use to get a rocket to escape
Speaker 2: the Earth's gravitational pull and get them into space. I
Speaker 2: mean imagine having to use that or produce that type
Speaker 2: of force to counter gravity or something similar. I mean,
Speaker 2: I just don't think you're going to do it with
Speaker 2: what engines we have unless you're using a nuclear a
Speaker 2: nuclear powered engine.
Speaker 5: Of some kind.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what that article said.
Speaker 1: They were going to be using nuclear powered engines to counteract.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but it's very intriguing. And when you
Speaker 1: think back over sixty years ago, people were fairly certain,
Speaker 1: you know, these aerospace engineers and high ranking people were
Speaker 1: fairly certain. It was just a matter of a few
Speaker 1: years before we had anti gravity engines or devices.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: So you know a lot of people they see, you know,
Speaker 1: they hear about UFOs and they saw it's all the
Speaker 1: US government, you know, technology, and then there are people
Speaker 1: who say, none of it's the US government.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: You have to look at every case differently, and uh,
Speaker 1: you have to consider maybe somewhere some little you know,
Speaker 1: like a the Raiders are the lost of the uh,
Speaker 1: you know, the one with the huge warehouse in some
Speaker 1: corner there's a box floating above the floor.
Speaker 2: I was gonna mention too, because I know there's listeners
Speaker 2: out there that are going to make this association.
Speaker 5: But di Glock, which is the clock or the.
Speaker 2: Bell, I mean gloca, thank you Germans.
Speaker 1: Not good, Yeah, glock is a pistol.
Speaker 5: That's the cop in me.
Speaker 2: You know, this is very big in conspiracy theories. Of course,
Speaker 2: you apology in some other areas that the Nazis were
Speaker 2: developing an anti gravity device ships like a bell, and
Speaker 2: there's drawings.
Speaker 5: Of it online.
Speaker 2: There, there's images, there's all sorts of claims about you know,
Speaker 2: being developed at a certain you know, labor camp, and
Speaker 2: then after the war defecting to this, to this, you know,
Speaker 2: these states to.
Speaker 5: To bring the technology.
Speaker 2: But what I really wanted to touch on is the
Speaker 2: fact that all the research I've ever seen done on
Speaker 2: the actual reality of it is that it's just urban legend,
Speaker 2: myth and there was never any.
Speaker 5: Type of a bell or whatever.
Speaker 2: To get Germans, I know you, and I am a
Speaker 2: World War two historian, so I would have loved fur
Speaker 2: there to be evidence, but unfortunately it can just be
Speaker 2: traced back to a lot of that, you know, when
Speaker 2: when after the war, the mysticism that the Nazis believed
Speaker 2: in was was being put out there along with the
Speaker 2: the different magazines and sensationalists, you know, people writing articles
Speaker 2: and coming up with fantastical stories, and I think it
Speaker 2: was just please don't direct your hate mail too much
Speaker 2: towards me. But I am I'm a fact based person.
Speaker 5: You know, we have to go to what's real.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But I do have to add, if anybody would
Speaker 1: crack this, it would be the Germans, not that you know,
Speaker 1: Linda Zimmermann is biased at all the Germans.
Speaker 2: But aren't we from like the same hometown, part of
Speaker 2: our families or something?
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe probably I have a little percentage, very little. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So I don't know everything's on the table, but I
Speaker 1: just thought it would be interesting and if people are
Speaker 1: interested in this, read the book The Hunt for the
Speaker 1: Zero Point Watch. Michael Schratz shows on it. There's plenty
Speaker 1: of information on t GLACA and everything else you can imagine.
Speaker 1: But it's you know, even though I'm skeptical that we
Speaker 1: have the technology, the fact that in the fifties they
Speaker 1: were pretty certain it's right around the corner.
Speaker 3: Then it went silent, and you.
Speaker 1: Know, so many people for so long, a lot of money,
Speaker 1: a lot of brilliant minds working on this. Maybe they
Speaker 1: have something and it's just not sufficient to put in
Speaker 1: an airliner yet, or you know, whatever. But you think
Speaker 1: back to things that seemed very suspicious UFOs that kind
Speaker 1: of has rivets and pipes, you know, unless they're disguising
Speaker 1: it as something else. So sure, sure, the possibility that
Speaker 1: some of what we're seeing is human made, I can
Speaker 1: go along with that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's a good assessment because I think
Speaker 2: this area anti gravity research is probably one of the areas.
Speaker 5: That we can actually say.
Speaker 2: Is probably the more realistic and legitimate scientific endeavor that
Speaker 2: people would research, that there is a genuine scientific interest
Speaker 2: in anti gravity some type of a device or development,
Speaker 2: because of the implications it would have for so many,
Speaker 2: so many aspects of life. So I think it's you know,
Speaker 2: we're not far out by speculating that people would want this.
Speaker 2: And and if all these companies investing their money, like
Speaker 2: you said in the fifties and then nothing, nothing more
Speaker 2: talked about.
Speaker 3: Yeah they didn't stop.
Speaker 1: Let's say, right, nobody ever stops.
Speaker 3: It just goes dark.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 2: And again the technology, maybe they have some technology, but
Speaker 2: it's not enough to really do anything with, like you know,
Speaker 2: the the hockeypock example, for example, floating off the ground
Speaker 2: is much different than a Boeing seven forty seven sized object.
Speaker 2: Ring and defeating gravity, you.
Speaker 5: Know, right, two very different worlds.
Speaker 2: So just because you have maybe the ability to do
Speaker 2: it in a lab and a controlled environment, doesn't mean
Speaker 2: that it's going to work. Or they can get it
Speaker 2: to work outside of a controlled environment or a specific
Speaker 2: laboratory environment.
Speaker 3: Maybe.
Speaker 1: But if yeah, but if they do, I want that
Speaker 1: jets and car so I can to hop in and
Speaker 1: go to the beach or a met game, you know,
Speaker 1: just like that.
Speaker 5: So go to afternoon tea in London, you know.
Speaker 3: There you go.
Speaker 1: I'm on it all right, So if scientists out there
Speaker 1: are listening, please let me know where can I get
Speaker 1: my anti gravity car? And uh so, yeah, everybody, stay curious,
Speaker 1: look into it yourself. I just threw all this out there.
Speaker 1: I'm not telling you what to believe or not believe,
Speaker 1: but it may give you some avenues to research on
Speaker 1: your own.
Speaker 3: So take us away in your own inimitable ste I will.
Speaker 2: I want to thank everybody Linda and I for listening
Speaker 2: to us throughout the years. We are recording this at
Speaker 2: the end of December twenty twenty four, so from all
Speaker 2: of us here at UFO Headquarters, both visible and invisible,
Speaker 2: we want to wish you a very very happy New
Speaker 2: Year for twenty twenty five. I don't know where the
Speaker 2: other years went. Linda twenty twenty five say that out
Speaker 2: loud three times, but that just shows you if you
Speaker 2: just started listening to them, money in the library to
Speaker 2: catch up. So happy New Year, thank you for listening,
Speaker 2: and keep your eyes on the sky. Lutsendriverradio dot com