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Speaker 1: M M.

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Speaker 2: A Wall Street line, shackle change, oh someome gird, it's

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calling my name. There is no mercy and it's been

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a tentery juice as the huge stream game Wrangle three.

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Speaker 3: Come in by me to die.

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Speaker 2: Inside these walls, inside the wild.

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Speaker 3: And when the girl as I, Hey everyone, and welcome

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back to Bloody Angola, A podcast one and forty two

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years in the making, the complete story of America's Bloody

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Is Prison. I'm Jim Chapman, and a lot has happened

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since the last time I dropped an episode. Just last week,

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if you've been listening, we just completed a three part

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series in which I covered the crimes and convictions of

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three inmates that had received death warrants in the state

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of Louisiana. In the first episode in that three part

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series covered the crimes of Jesse Hoffman, who, if you'll remember,

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had his execution delayed due to a Louisiana District judge

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finding the method of execution nitrogen hypoxia, unconstitutional and a

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violation of the Eighth Amendment, which is cruel and unusual punishment. Now,

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this was on March eleventh, So on March twelfth, ag

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Liz Murel. She files what is known as an emergency brief,

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and she urges the courts to move forward. Now, what

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really spearheaded this, at least from the defense standpoint, was

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the claim that the state did not release their execution

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protocol until the eve of May seventh. So essentially they're

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saying they didn't have time to legally scrutinize that protocol.

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So let's go over Louisiana's execution protocol quickly. So the

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protocol outlines a structured, multi phase process and it begins

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thirty days before the execution and continues until after the

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inmate is pronounced dead. In Phase one, which is thirty

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days before the execution, the inmate is served a death

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warrant and he must acknowledge or she must acknowledge receipt

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of that death warrant. The inmate may select a spiritual

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advisor who must undergo training if they wish to be

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present in the execution chamber. Medical monitoring begins, and that

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includes mental health evaluations. All that is in phase one,

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which is thirty days out. Then in phase two, which

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is two weeks out fourteen days, the inmate's family receives

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formal notice of the execution date. The inmate also finalizes

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any legal, spiritual, or funeral arrangements. Then they move on

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to Phase three, which is ten to three days before

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the execution. Law enforcement agencies they get notified of the execution.

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Witnesses including victim representatives and media, are selected. Final equipment

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inspections as the security briefings are conducted, and then they

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move to Phase four, which is twelve to thirty six

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hours before the execution. At that time, the execution chamber

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is placed on what's known as restricted access. The nitrogen

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hypoxia system gets tested to make sure it's functional, The

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inmate's personal property is inventoried and secured, and then Phase

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five is the day of the execution. At noon, the

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inmate is served a final meal if he or she

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so chooses. One hour before the execution, final security checks

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are conducted. The end gets prepared, including being fitted with

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what's none as a pulse oximeter. The nitrogen hypoxia mask

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is placed into the execution chamber, and then the execution commences.

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The warden opens the nitrogen gas lockout valve. The gas

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is administered for at least fifteen minutes, or until five

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minutes after a flight line is detected on an EKG machine,

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the chamber is ventilated before officials confirmed the execution is complete.

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And then there's a phase six, which is post execution procedures,

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which the corner officially pronounces the inmate dead, the Governor's

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office is notified, and the body is removed. Funeral arrangements

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are carried out per the inmate's request. So that is

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the official execution protocol for the State of Louisiana, and

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that's what they were arguing. They didn't have this protocol,

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so they couldn't legally scrutinize it. I mean, they're by time, right, So,

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as I told you, Liz Muriel files what's known as

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an emergency brief and at that point the Louisiana appeals

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to the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeal and they actually

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overturned the temporary injunction on Jesse Hoffman's execution. The execution

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was on and it happened in quick order, but not

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before the justice system got quite the workout first. After

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exhausting all other avenues, Hoffman appealed to the US Supreme Court.

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In the eleventh hour. He filed both a writ and

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an application for stay of execution. And I have that,

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and I'm going to review it with you real quick.

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Jesse Hoffman's execution is scheduled for March eighteenth, twenty twenty five,

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between six and nine pm to the Honorable Samuel Alito,

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Associate Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States

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and Circuit Justice for the Fifth Circuit. Petitioner Jesse Hoffman, respectively,

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requests that this Court stay his execution using nitrogen hypoxia,

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penning the Court's disposition of his pending petition of a WRINT.

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Mister Hoffman is scheduled to be executed on March eighteenth,

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twenty twenty five, between six and nine pm if the

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Court is unable to resolve this application by five point

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fifty nine. On March eighteenth, twenty twenty five, issued grant

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a temporary stay while it considers the application. Then it

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lists the reasons reasoning for granting the stay of application.

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Mister Hoffman's execution date is presently March eighteenth, twenty twenty five.

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Mister Hoffman has concurrently filed a petition for a WRINT.

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With this application, the impending execution date may preclude this

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Court from considering mister Hoffman's petition before the scheduled execution,

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thus necessitating this application. Mister Hoffman's challenge to his execution

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is timely raised and has a very strong likely hood

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of success on the merits. The State of Louisiana announced

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on February tenth, twenty twenty five, that it had created

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a protocol for execution by nitrogen hypoxia, that is, the

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deprivation of oxygen through the forced inhalation of pure nitrogen

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until someone dies. It served mister Hoffman with a death

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warrant on February twentieth, twenty twenty five, notifying him for

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the first time that he would be the first Louisian

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inmate to be executed by nitrogen hypoxia. On March eighteenth,

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twenty twenty five. The state did not disclose its new

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protocol for nitrogen gassing until over a week later. Mister Hoffman,

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a practicing Buddhists, diligently exhausted his administrative remedies and filed

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this suit less than a week after receiving his death warrant,

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challenging the state's method of execution under the Eighth Amendment.

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In the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act, The

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Eighth Amendment forbids forms of execution that intensified death sentence

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with super additions of terror, pain, or disgrace. To succeed

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on the method of execution challenge under the Eighth Amendment,

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an inn may must show that a feasible, readily implemented

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alternative procedure would significantly reduce a substantial risk of severe pain.

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The District Court, after expedited discovery and a twelve hour hearing,

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concluded that mister Hoffman was likely to succeed on the

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merits of his Eighth Amendment claim and had entered a

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preliminary injunction based on its extensive findings of fact, which

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in turn were based on an expert and testimony. Relying

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on medical expert testimony, the District Court concluded that mister

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Hoffman was likely to succeed in showing that nitrogen gasing

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super ads physiological terror compared to execution by firing squad

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and then in parentheses, it says the readily available and

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feasible alternative mister Hoffman proposed number two, he would likely

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be horned absent a preliminary injunction, and three the equities

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and the public interests weighed against the state's rushed execution

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of mister Hoffman. A divided panel of the Fifth Circuit

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vacated the injunction on March fourteenth, twenty twenty five, in

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an opinion flatly inconsistent with this Court's precedent. As mister

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Hoffman explains in his petition, a majority of the Fifth

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Circuit panel misapplied the Eighth Amendment and ignored the District

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Court's factual findings on the central issue of psychological terror.

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The majority suggested a categorical rule that the Eighth Amendment

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requires a petitioner to show that the alternative method of

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execution is less physically painful than the chosen method, regardless

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of the psychological effect, while giving lip service to the

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Court's recognition to the super edition of terror that it

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can violate the Eighth Amendment. The panel majority also completely

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ignored mister Hoffman's r LUPA claim us by mister Hoffman

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as an alternative basis for affirming the court's injunction. Nitrogen

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hypoxia makes mister Hoffman's religious practice impossible, and then it

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goes on and it gives a conglomerate of reasons that

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mister Hafflins's attorneys felt the Fifth Circuit failed them for

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lack of a better word. So after that was filed,

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the state responded, and that's known as a brief in

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opposition to the application for stay. And in that statement

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of the opposition of application, the state said, in the

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interest of time and efficiency, the State here addresses only

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the core relevant facts and it expounds where necessary in

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the argument below. On the night before Thanksgiving nineteen ninety six,

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play If Jesse Hoffman kidnapped, robbed, and raped Mary Molly Elliott.

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The play if kidnapped Molly at gunpoint drover to an

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ATM forster to withdraw raw two hundred dollars and robbed her.

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The planiff subsequently raped Molly in the backseat of her

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own car in the remote area of Saint Timiny Parish.

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He then marched her steal naked down a dirt path

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which was overgrown with vegetation and full of trash used

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as a dump. Her death march ultimately ended at a

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small makeshift dock on the Middle Pearl River, where the

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planiff was forced to her knees and he shot her

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in the head execution style. Molly likely survived for a

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few minutes after being shot, but she was not discovered

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until after Thanksgiving Day, when a duck hunter came across

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her naked body on the dock. For his part, the

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planiff soon after took his girlfriend shopping with Molly's money.

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A jury convicted the planiff of first degree murder, and

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he was sentenced to death. His appeal was litigated to finality,

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and he exhausted all of his state and federal post

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conviction remedies. Although lethal injection was louis Suisiana's method of

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execution when the planet murdered Molly, drug companies have since

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made it extraordinarily difficult for states to obtain the necessary drugs.

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As a result, Louisiana and other states recently have turned

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to nitrogen hypoxia because there's no supply concerns with the nitrogen.

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For Louisiana, that time came in the spring of twenty

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twenty four, when legislatures amended and adopted nitrogen hypoxia as

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a method of execution. Nitrogen hypoxia is Louisiana's only current

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available method. Over the past year, Louisiana's Department of Public

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Safety and Correction constructed a nitrogen hypoxia system that mirrors

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Alabama and since twenty twenty four, Alabama itself has carried

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out successfully for nitrogen hypoxia executions. In general terms, the

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system delivers pure nitrogen to a full faced silicon mask

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with a plexiglass screen known as a source respirator. Industrial

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grade and superior to medical grade mask. Thick cushion material

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presses against the face and creates an air tight seal.

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The mask has a one way inlet valve allowing for

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airflow into the mask from the industrial tube that delivers

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both ambient air and nitrogen. The mask also allows for

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exhaling through another one way exhaust valve the plane. If

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appeared to complain the system uses industrial grade not medical

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grade nitrogen, he omits that medical grade nitrogen is comparatively

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inferior because it has more impurities than does Louisiana's ultra

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grade nitrogen. The state's expert is the only expert in

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the case who inspected and tested Louisiana's system. Specifically, he

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laid down on the gurney with the mask on at

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the intended flow rate, and he testified that he could

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breathe very comfortably with the mask on. He also took

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a video demonstrating how quickly pure nitrogen displaces oxygen in

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the mask by thirty seconds, the air inside the mask

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is only four point four percent, oxygen, one point eight

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percent by forty seconds, and so on. Almost immediately after

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legislature adopted nitrogen hypoxia, the PLANEFF attempted to reopen a

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dismissed as moot case challenging Louisiana's legal injection protocol. That

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case was dismissed a few years ago because Louisiana was

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and still is currently unable to obtain necessary drugs with

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nitrogen now permitted under Louisiana law. However, Planet filed a

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motion claiming that there has since been a material and

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extraordinary change of circumstances that gives rise to a live

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controversy between the parties for the next eight months. However,

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the District Court took no action on the motion, and

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the Planet refused to file this lawsuit. Indeed, it was

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not until the Planet's death warrant was issued in February

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of twenty twenty five that Hoffmann's docket bounced back. The

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District Court issued an order real opening the case on

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procedurally dubious grounds, as the fifth Circuit in this case

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would later observe. The state sought relief and secured an

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administrative state on the basis that this was an improper

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exercise of authority. Once the Planeff realized he would be

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unable to use his old case as a challenge to

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Louisiana's new method of execution, he filed this lawsuit on

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February twenty fifth, and sought on February twenty six to

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enjoin his execution. In the ensuing two weeks, the parties

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engaged in expedited discovery motions, practice and an evidentiary hearing

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on Friday, May seventh, followed by proposed findings and conclusions

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filed at nine am on March ninth. This case has

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substantially narrowed in the meantime because the District Court partially

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granted the state's motion to dismiss certain claims from the

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bench in its injunctive order that the Planeff was unlikely

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to succeed on certain other claims as things, and therefore

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the only life claim presented to the Fifth Circuit is

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the planet's Eighth Amendment challenge to nitrogen hypoxia. Here are

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a few key facts on that challenge. To begin, as

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District Court recognized both Planiff and the state's experts agree

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that nitrogen hypoxia does not produce physical pain. Planiff's case

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thus depends on alleged psychological pain. To that end, he

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testified he is a Buddhist and engages in meditative breathing

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twice a day, which requires concentrated deep breasts both inhaling

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and exhaling. He also testified he plans to use his

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breathing techniques during his execution. He put on a PTSD expert,

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doctor Sawter, who agreed that the Planiff has mastered his

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breathing techniques to control any PTSD issues. In so long

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as he can practice a breathing he will be able

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to decrease his distrust. Planiff also put on another expert,

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doctor Bickler, who testified with normal breathing in especially with

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deep breasts, as the planet intends, unconsciousness will occur in

244
00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:08,000
less than one minute after the pure nitrogen begins to

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flow into the mask. Doctor Bickler also testified at least

246
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in the assisted suicide contacts, allowing the free flow of

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a gas into the lungs but with no oxygen, causes

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a gentle hypoxic death. His only excuse for taking the

249
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opposite position what respect to the use of nitrogen here

250
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was that it was very different contexts than forced asphyxiation

251
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with nitrogen in a death chamber. The state's expert agreed

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on the key facts. His opinion is that Louisiana system

253
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will cause unconsciousness within thirty five to forty seconds or

254
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perhaps sooner once the planet begins to inhale pure nitrogen,

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and he expects death to follow rapidly within ten to

256
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fifteen minutes. I do not believe they inmate would suffer

257
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any pain with that system, the expert said. First part,

258
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the planet oppose the firing squad in a drug cocktail

259
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known as DDMAPH as alternative methods to execution that renders

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nitrogen hypoxia unconstitutional. In granting the planet's motion for a

261
00:19:14,799 --> 00:19:20,960
preliminary injunction on March eleventh, the District Court rejected DDMAPH

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because the state cannot use drugs for execution purposes, but

263
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agreed that the firing squad is a suitable alternative. On

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March fourteenth, the Fifth Circuit vacated that injunction as not

265
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just wrong, but constitutionally backwards. Specifically, the Fifth Circuit rejected

266
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the idea that the Eighth Amendment somehow requires Louisiana to

267
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:47,920
use admittingly more painful methods of execution, namely execution by

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firing squad rather than nitrogen hypoxia. The Fifth Circuit recognized

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that both sides experts testified about pain from the firing squad,

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while agreeing that nitrogen hypoxia is physical painless in some

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00:20:01,799 --> 00:20:05,240
the District Court didn't just get the legal analysis wrong,

272
00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:08,240
it turned the Constitution on its head by relying on

273
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:14,240
indisputably more painful method of execution than nitrogen hypoxia. Reasonable

274
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minds can differ on the proper understanding of the Eighth

275
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Amendment and in certain cases, but surely we can all

276
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agree that it does not require state officials to favor

277
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more painful methods of execution over less painful ones. Judge

278
00:20:29,759 --> 00:20:32,599
Hayne descended on the ground that there are issues that

279
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:35,680
need more time to be resolved and decided. She also

280
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believed that the majority opinion does not adequately address the

281
00:20:39,519 --> 00:20:45,000
facts as properly found by the District Court. So that

282
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,799
was their response, and long story short on that one

283
00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:55,680
Supreme Court did not rule on the case. They actually

284
00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,599
said the state pretty much got it right, and they

285
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weren't going to hear it. So the execution was on,

286
00:21:03,319 --> 00:21:09,039
and it had been fifteen years since Louisiana had executed someone.

287
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And as I mentioned earlier, some reporters are allowed into

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the chamber, and one in particular did a really fantastic

289
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,519
job of covering from start to finish. I'm going to

290
00:21:21,599 --> 00:21:25,359
read that for you. It's from the Timespeaky Unit says

291
00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:31,359
Jesse Hoffman's final moments inside the Louisiana execution chamber at Angola,

292
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:34,319
and it goes on to read A waft of spring

293
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:38,839
flowers and low chant filled the entryway to Louisiana's execution

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building on Tuesday, as seven designated witnesses filed inside. The

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00:21:43,799 --> 00:21:46,960
source of the channing soon became apparent. The condemned man's

296
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:50,599
spiritual advisor, dressed in a black robe, appeared through a

297
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side window as prison officials led him into the death chamber.

298
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It was six seventeen pm inside Camp F at the

299
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Louisiana State Penitentiary in Gola, where no one has been

300
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:07,079
executed since twenty ten. Laminated signs on the walls cautioned

301
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:11,680
nitrogen hypoxia system is active and pressurized. A pair of

302
00:22:11,759 --> 00:22:14,400
meters on the wall in the viewing room put the

303
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:18,079
air at a healthy twenty point seven percent oxygen, though

304
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:21,200
was quiet and heavy as a pair of curtains rose.

305
00:22:21,319 --> 00:22:27,079
On Louisiana's first execution using nitrogen gas, Jesse Hoffman Junior

306
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,880
appeared through a picture window. He was already stripped onto

307
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,839
the execution table and draped in a plush gray blanket.

308
00:22:35,039 --> 00:22:39,039
A blue industrial gray respirator covered his face, leaving little

309
00:22:39,039 --> 00:22:42,240
of Hoffman to see as he laid an incline facing

310
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the window. Armsplayed in a cruciform table. Only a portion

311
00:22:47,759 --> 00:22:51,960
of his neck and hands were visible, thumbs touching forefingers

312
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:56,000
in a sacred Buddhist pose as in Gola Warden. Darryl

313
00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:59,440
Venet reach for a microphone. Would you like to make

314
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,759
a last statement? He said. Hoffman, forty six, tossed his

315
00:23:02,839 --> 00:23:05,279
head to the side and seemed to say nothing. He

316
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:09,200
also declined a last meal. A president official later said,

317
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:13,400
Vaney adjusted a valve on the mask covering Hoffman's face.

318
00:23:13,839 --> 00:23:17,160
The state will now carry out the execution of condemned

319
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,839
inmate Jesse Hoffman. He said there would be no signal

320
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,839
for when the ultra high grade nitrogen called in for

321
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,680
Louisiana's new execution protocol would begin to enter the mask

322
00:23:27,839 --> 00:23:30,960
and kill Hoffman. Official said, and a briefing later that

323
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,160
had happened at six point twenty one pm, and that

324
00:23:33,279 --> 00:23:36,759
the gas ran for nineteen minutes. Tubing leed from a

325
00:23:36,799 --> 00:23:40,400
wall under the blanket at Hoffman's right hand. At six

326
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:44,599
point twenty two pm, his breathing became uneven, his chest rose,

327
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,519
and he made a jerking motion. A minute later, Hoffman's

328
00:23:47,519 --> 00:23:50,759
body shook and his fingers twisched. He appeared to pull

329
00:23:50,799 --> 00:23:53,839
at the arms of the table, which has bolted into

330
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:57,720
a ceramic tile floor in the center block chamber. Hoffman's

331
00:23:57,759 --> 00:24:01,119
hands began to clinch, his head stayed turned to his right,

332
00:24:01,319 --> 00:24:05,759
his breathing slowed. Birds could be heard chirping under cloudless

333
00:24:05,759 --> 00:24:09,359
skies near dust from a witness room, which included only

334
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:13,880
the state officials and news reporters, divided by a wall romoku.

335
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:18,279
Gregory Smith, the Buddhist spiritual advisor Hoffman, chose to accompany

336
00:24:18,319 --> 00:24:20,880
his death, knelt on a rug a few feet away,

337
00:24:21,079 --> 00:24:24,640
rarely taking his eyes off of Hoffman. An oxygen mon

338
00:24:24,759 --> 00:24:28,960
arrested nearby on a seal. Hoffman's head remained tilted towards

339
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,559
the room with the nitrogen tanks. At six twenty six pm,

340
00:24:32,799 --> 00:24:36,680
Hoffman's head moved inside the mass. Less than a minute later,

341
00:24:36,839 --> 00:24:40,960
a few seconds before six twenty seven pm, he jerked slightly.

342
00:24:41,279 --> 00:24:44,599
It would be the last significant movement Hoffman would make

343
00:24:44,759 --> 00:24:47,480
in a life he had mostly spent on death row.

344
00:24:48,519 --> 00:24:51,200
To his left, the nat stood in a charcoal suit

345
00:24:51,319 --> 00:24:55,799
and black loafers, beside an anonymous prison official. Minutes past,

346
00:24:55,920 --> 00:25:01,039
Hoffman's breathing slowed, then became imperceptible on the wall behind

347
00:25:01,039 --> 00:25:04,119
his head. A pair of red bones, installed in case

348
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,960
of a need to communicate last minute reprieves remained still

349
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:13,200
and silent while Hoffman died under bright fluorescent light. At

350
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,440
six point thirty eight pm, Smith cast his eyes downward

351
00:25:16,519 --> 00:25:19,680
toward the floor as he knelt. A few minutes later,

352
00:25:19,759 --> 00:25:23,559
Finoid pressed a button and the curtains descended. Rythmic deep

353
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,400
chanting and popping soon could be heard from the obscured chamber,

354
00:25:27,759 --> 00:25:30,960
part of Hoffman's state. Approve's spiritual sind off. The pops

355
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,000
and chance continued for more than four minutes before they

356
00:25:34,039 --> 00:25:36,680
wind down. When the curtains rose again at six point

357
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,960
fifty two pm, Smith had left the room, Westcott, the

358
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:44,519
correction secretary, had entered it. Fenoy announced the execution was

359
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,799
complete and placed the time of death at six point

360
00:25:47,799 --> 00:25:51,720
fifty pm. Hoffman's face had been made visible for the

361
00:25:51,759 --> 00:25:55,440
first time. The mass used to kill him was now removed.

362
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,319
His head was tilted back, teeth exposed in a grimace

363
00:25:59,799 --> 00:26:08,359
as the curtains slowly descended once more. Pretty descriptive. Now

364
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,000
in the clip I'm about to play you the age

365
00:26:12,559 --> 00:26:16,519
for Louisiana, Liz Muhral did something I really liked to see.

366
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,640
She held a press conference and she highlighted the victim

367
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,200
in this case as she held up a large picture

368
00:26:23,279 --> 00:26:26,880
and really did a good job of keeping the perspective

369
00:26:27,039 --> 00:26:30,000
where it needed to be in my view, which is

370
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,640
on the victim. And here's what that sounded like.

371
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:40,440
Speaker 4: This was Mary Margaret Murphy Elliot. She was known to

372
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:47,480
her friends as Molly. On November twenty eighth, nineteen ninety six,

373
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:53,160
on Thanksgiving Day, a duck hunter found Molly Elliott's naked

374
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:57,839
dead body abandoned on a makeshift doc where she had

375
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:04,799
been shot in the head executions style after being kidnapped, robbed, terrorized,

376
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:09,960
raped and marched to this desolate spot for her death.

377
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,559
Molly was brutally and mercilessly raped and murdered. She was

378
00:27:14,599 --> 00:27:19,599
only twenty eight years old. That was nearly thirty years ago.

379
00:27:20,799 --> 00:27:25,039
Tonight justice was served for Molly Elliott and for the

380
00:27:25,079 --> 00:27:31,119
state of Louisiana. Molly's husband told USA Today, Molly was

381
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:35,720
a cherished person who missed out on motherhood, a promising

382
00:27:35,799 --> 00:27:39,359
and successful career, and a life in the country on

383
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,839
the property we bought together. Hers was a life that

384
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,960
was so full of hope and promise for a beautiful future.

385
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,880
The loss of Molly is a scar we will forever carry,

386
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:54,519
and it will never heal. Governor Landry and I made

387
00:27:54,559 --> 00:27:57,440
a promise to the citizens of Louisiana and the family

388
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,440
members of the victims of these heinous crimes, that we

389
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,920
would put them first and that we would follow the law.

390
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:09,039
The last execution in Louisiana was in twenty ten of

391
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:13,359
Gerald Bordelawn, who waived all of his final appeals. Justice

392
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:17,200
has been delayed for these victims and their families for

393
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:22,839
far too long. I, along with my office, remain committed

394
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:27,079
to ensuring that justice is carried out in all the

395
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:31,960
death penalty cases. Jesse Hoffman was convicted and sentenced to

396
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:36,079
death by a jury for his heinous crimes. He received

397
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:41,880
multiple appeals. He received even more appeals and review in

398
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:46,720
the last several days. Now he faces his ultimate judge

399
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:48,480
judgment before God.

400
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:55,799
Speaker 1: This time we'll open it up to questions. We will

401
00:28:55,839 --> 00:28:57,440
start from the last data this sort.

402
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:05,079
Speaker 5: Can anyone at the prison speak to how sort of

403
00:29:05,559 --> 00:29:08,440
raw was affected on the staff.

404
00:29:08,119 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 1: And Christeners in the days leading up to their secution? Yeah,

405
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,160
do you want to know them? Can we get more

406
00:29:16,279 --> 00:29:27,640
quarter quarter going? Come on up, dip, good evening.

407
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:34,039
Speaker 6: Our staff is our professionals. Their morale was not effected affected,

408
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:36,440
you know, I'm sure, I'm sure that they all had

409
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:40,279
their own views. But I'm so proud of my team,

410
00:29:40,319 --> 00:29:45,799
my staff, everyone was so professional. They showed mister Harper

411
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:50,400
dignity and respect and did their jobs and I am

412
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:56,440
proud of them. The death row inmates, Uh, today, they

413
00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:00,200
were kind of quiet, but that's to be expected. I've

414
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,839
showed that in the past. But no problems, very respectful,

415
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:10,680
just kind of quiet and solve them today.

416
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 4: Were any of them family as they were not? But

417
00:30:17,279 --> 00:30:19,599
with the governor and I've both been in contact with them,

418
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:24,119
as have people from the District Attorney's office in Saint

419
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:28,440
Tammany and the detectives who investigate this case from the outset,

420
00:30:28,519 --> 00:30:30,640
So they've been in close contact with the family.

421
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 5: Commissioner Warden. Any problems that you guys, obviously, this is

422
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,119
something that's brand new to you guys, using as a

423
00:30:39,359 --> 00:30:40,599
as an execution tool.

424
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 3: Is there anything that you ran into, any concerns and

425
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,640
problems witness being carried out for the very first time.

426
00:30:50,079 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 7: I'll say my staff, as everybody knows, we followed the

427
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:54,200
protocol of Alabama.

428
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 6: Again.

429
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 7: We let them lead the way and we followed them.

430
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,240
We actually probably did a little bit better than they

431
00:31:01,279 --> 00:31:03,720
did with some of the equipment we did, and we've

432
00:31:03,759 --> 00:31:04,799
made some tweaks.

433
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: To what they did. It.

434
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 7: It was flawless. It went about as good as we

435
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,200
can expect we expected.

436
00:31:09,799 --> 00:31:10,119
Speaker 1: It to be.

437
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,119
Speaker 7: We had no problems. We are, like the warden said,

438
00:31:13,359 --> 00:31:16,599
our staff is trained for this, uh and it went.

439
00:31:16,839 --> 00:31:19,400
It went about as flawless as we could expect it

440
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,400
to be. There was no there was nothing that happened

441
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:23,240
that we want to work for.

442
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:27,079
Speaker 5: And right.

443
00:31:27,519 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 7: So what is your message to the people outside, people

444
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,359
who are there with individuals and saying not and it's

445
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,039
not just what the it made, but it also the victim.

446
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 4: But they're saying they want the definitely not to.

447
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,599
Speaker 1: Be in the museum. That's takular.

448
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a legislative policy issue. And certainly they are

449
00:31:48,279 --> 00:31:52,480
free to advocate and to pray and to continue to

450
00:31:52,559 --> 00:31:56,119
support whatever their views are. But this is the law

451
00:31:56,119 --> 00:31:58,079
of Louisiana, and we carried out the law of the

452
00:31:58,119 --> 00:32:01,599
State of Louisiana.

453
00:32:02,599 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 8: So you said that you had authorities have bit in

454
00:32:05,039 --> 00:32:08,440
touch with the family of Molly Elliott, and they were

455
00:32:08,519 --> 00:32:13,359
not unanimously and they were carrying out this execution. So

456
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:17,079
what do you say to the family not a favor

457
00:32:17,599 --> 00:32:21,839
of execution in this case as well as other cases

458
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:26,039
going forward, and leave you hear the concern and family

459
00:32:26,079 --> 00:32:27,839
members of victims who don't want.

460
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:28,359
Speaker 1: It the execution.

461
00:32:29,559 --> 00:32:34,759
Speaker 4: I can tell you that Molly Elliott's immediate family members

462
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,519
did not oppose this moving forward. They are grateful to

463
00:32:39,559 --> 00:32:43,559
have finality and I was in direct communication with them

464
00:32:44,039 --> 00:32:48,400
during this process. So you know, other people might have

465
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,079
their opinions, but I don't think it was the opinion

466
00:32:51,119 --> 00:32:53,279
of the immediate family members. I think they're grateful to

467
00:32:53,279 --> 00:32:56,759
have finality. What was frustrating for them is that it

468
00:32:56,759 --> 00:33:03,160
took thirty years. Yeah, yeah, so will those executioners speed

469
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,799
up the process of other indix who our development. We

470
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:10,440
certainly expect to go back and look at how to

471
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,119
make sure that we move these cases along. I've already

472
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,559
been looking at that, looking at every case and what

473
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:20,000
the status is of every case. Some of these cases

474
00:33:20,039 --> 00:33:25,440
have been sitting for a couple of decades with motions

475
00:33:25,519 --> 00:33:29,200
that the defense attorneys frank frankly should have moved forward

476
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,640
a long time ago, a long time ago. We'll address

477
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,200
those issues as we can, but yes, we expect to

478
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:40,279
move more forward. Going off of that, Since you guys

479
00:33:40,279 --> 00:33:42,119
say this is you know, this is a Christians as

480
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:43,680
the executions for ten.

481
00:33:43,599 --> 00:33:46,839
Speaker 7: Years, how soon do you expect the next execution?

482
00:33:47,119 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 4: How many executions are you expected to be carried out this?

483
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,519
I couldn't answer that. They're at all different stages in litigation.

484
00:33:54,799 --> 00:33:59,599
And and because this one did move forward, there have

485
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,279
been new filings in a lot of these cases and

486
00:34:02,359 --> 00:34:04,319
we just have to go sort that out in the court.

487
00:34:04,359 --> 00:34:08,440
So it's really it's really impossible to say, but my staff,

488
00:34:08,559 --> 00:34:11,039
my team and I really want to compliment all of

489
00:34:11,039 --> 00:34:15,119
the lawyers that work together with the District Attorney's office

490
00:34:15,159 --> 00:34:19,719
in Saint Tammany, with my office. Really all kind of

491
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,280
came together because there were filings in multiple courts for

492
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:27,000
the last few days, and you know, I think that

493
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,159
that will continue to happen, but we're going to start

494
00:34:29,199 --> 00:34:32,760
working our way through motions and begin to clear the

495
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:36,880
underbrush and move these cases forward. Every everybody deserves the

496
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,440
justice that the state promised to them in these cases,

497
00:34:40,559 --> 00:34:42,960
and I think that it's important for us to be

498
00:34:43,039 --> 00:34:44,119
able to move them forward.

499
00:34:47,199 --> 00:34:50,840
Speaker 5: As you, earl, you've advocated for this policy for a

500
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:51,320
long time.

501
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:56,159
Speaker 2: Did you face the potential of witnessing execution?

502
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 1: So did you wrestle with that.

503
00:34:59,079 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 4: I certainly had the opp tinnity to I sat by

504
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,559
a phone because I was somebody had to sit by

505
00:35:04,559 --> 00:35:07,639
the telephone. So I sat and waited by the phone

506
00:35:07,639 --> 00:35:09,880
in case there was something that I needed to communicate

507
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:14,159
to the room. My staff was present, there were a

508
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:18,199
number of people who were present, but somebody had to

509
00:35:18,199 --> 00:35:21,039
sit by the phone, and so I sat by the phone.

510
00:35:22,639 --> 00:35:23,800
Speaker 1: No two part questions.

511
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,119
Speaker 3: I know that you gave the timeline as to when

512
00:35:26,159 --> 00:35:28,239
the lethal guys started blowing up.

513
00:35:28,159 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 8: When he was nail step.

514
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:34,119
Speaker 3: Did it actually take all thirty minutes for him to die?

515
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:39,840
And also did he exhibit any visible sign of distress

516
00:35:40,039 --> 00:35:41,920
while the execution was being carried out.

517
00:35:43,679 --> 00:35:46,760
Speaker 7: My chief of prison operation set Smith as a medical background,

518
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:48,800
and he's the one that was in the room watching,

519
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:49,960
So I'm gonna turn it over to.

520
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:52,840
Speaker 5: Him, okay to answer that. And like I said, I

521
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,400
have a medical background. What is your name, Sir Seth

522
00:35:55,639 --> 00:36:00,360
A ctch Smith. I've got a degree in nursing, and

523
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,519
I wore practiced and had a license up until a

524
00:36:02,519 --> 00:36:05,039
twenty ten, which time I let it lapse. So I

525
00:36:05,119 --> 00:36:06,679
was a nurse for over a decade. I've seen a

526
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,360
lot of deaths. I was even hospice administrator for some

527
00:36:09,559 --> 00:36:13,480
point in time six twenty one, the gas was turned on,

528
00:36:13,519 --> 00:36:16,360
the nitrogen was turned on around six twenty three. He

529
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,679
did have some convulsive activity, and I was told he

530
00:36:19,679 --> 00:36:21,559
may have had even some fine motor stuff after that

531
00:36:21,559 --> 00:36:24,280
that I personally didn't see from my angle. Nothing that

532
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:26,199
I would say is consistent with pain, Nothing that I

533
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:29,679
would say is inconsistent with death. You know, when the

534
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:33,079
normal dying process, people do things such as agonal respirations,

535
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:35,360
they will raise up, they will do things like that,

536
00:36:35,599 --> 00:36:38,800
even somebody that's terminal illness with high doses of morphine

537
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,119
things like that in their system. So you know you

538
00:36:41,119 --> 00:36:45,559
can he did move, He did shake very briefly. And

539
00:36:45,599 --> 00:36:47,880
when you asked you to take the entire time, our

540
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,880
protocol calls for us to go five minutes after flatlin.

541
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:53,639
And you don't go from a normal rhythm, your heart's

542
00:36:53,639 --> 00:36:55,239
beat and everything's lucky dory.

543
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:56,039
Speaker 1: To flatline.

544
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 5: You go through various phases where actually you're dead. You know,

545
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,079
we waited till there was no electrical activity in the heart,

546
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:06,199
which took I want to say, fourteen minutes, and then

547
00:37:06,199 --> 00:37:09,360
we went five minutes beyond that. So we went nineteen minutes,

548
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:15,280
but he, in essence was clinically dead very quickly, very quickly,

549
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:17,519
say I ask you a question, Well, okay.

550
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 1: Thank you.

551
00:37:18,559 --> 00:37:22,360
Speaker 3: So following that, the governor of the state of Louisiana,

552
00:37:22,519 --> 00:37:26,480
Jeff Landry, he also issued his statement those short and

553
00:37:26,559 --> 00:37:30,199
here's how that wreck. It is unfortunate that bad people exist,

554
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,679
and they do real bad things. When these acts of

555
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:37,760
violence happened, society must not tolerate it. God is as

556
00:37:38,079 --> 00:37:40,760
just as he is merciful. And my hope is that

557
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:44,480
when Louisiana empties death Row, there will never be another

558
00:37:44,559 --> 00:37:48,199
victim whose perpetrator must be placed there. In Louisiana, we

559
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:53,000
will always prioritize victims over criminal law and order over lawlessness,

560
00:37:53,159 --> 00:37:56,559
and justice over the status quo. If you commit hanous

561
00:37:56,639 --> 00:38:00,159
acts of violence in this state, it will cost you

562
00:38:00,159 --> 00:38:06,599
your life, plain simple one. That from Jeff Landry. So

563
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:10,639
there you have it, and now that justice has been

564
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:15,280
served using this new method, and I would suspect more

565
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:19,599
will be rolling out in short order, and of course

566
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:24,039
I will keep you posted on that. Thank you so

567
00:38:24,159 --> 00:38:27,440
much for listening. Check out the Patreon page for commercial,

568
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:32,199
free early releases. More and until next time. I'm Jim

569
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:36,079
Chapman for Bloody and Gola, a podcast one and forty

570
00:38:36,079 --> 00:38:39,719
two years in the making, the complete story of America's

571
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:42,280
bloodiest present Peace.

572
00:38:58,119 --> 00:39:08,280
Speaker 2: Off the street line, shackle change, Oh gluesome gird, it's

573
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:14,760
calling my name. There is no mercy and it's been

574
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:24,320
a tentery juice as the hill stream game wrangle the three.

575
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:26,119
Speaker 4: I'm here, be.

576
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:36,519
Speaker 2: By me to die inside these walls, inside the wild,

577
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:55,639
and when more girls, I'm no insul bloody angle, obody

578
00:39:56,000 --> 00:40:08,880
angle a