1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,279 Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the shir That You 2 00:00:02,359 --> 00:00:08,720 Can't Be Serious podcast. IMD James D and I am 3 00:00:08,759 --> 00:00:11,720 here with my buddy Jason Colvin. Actually we're doing this 4 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:15,720 via zoom. I am in the Bahamas where it's a 5 00:00:15,839 --> 00:00:21,600 breezy eighty degrees and Jason is sweatness balls off in India. 6 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:26,399 Speaker 2: Yes that is correct, sir, shaken not stirred. 7 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 1: All right. We are here to talk about the competition 8 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:38,520 of the James Bond of the sixties against the James 9 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:42,240 Bond of the seventies in movies that occurred in the 10 00:00:42,359 --> 00:00:47,399 eighties Sean Connery Roger Moore head to head in nineteen 11 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:48,600 eighty three. 12 00:00:48,679 --> 00:00:52,039 Speaker 2: This summer there was some amazing things happening in the movies. 13 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:55,960 We had Return of the Jedi, National Lampoon's Vacation. We 14 00:00:56,079 --> 00:00:58,000 had your favorite movie, Jaws three D. 15 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:04,879 Speaker 1: We had Trading Places. I saw Boobies for the first time. 16 00:01:05,159 --> 00:01:09,079 It was a wonderful, wonderful year. But yes, I'm happy 17 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:10,959 to be back in nineteen eighty three. Again. 18 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:13,879 Speaker 2: This was an incredible thing to hear that two Bond 19 00:01:13,879 --> 00:01:16,239 movies were going to be in theaters, not at the 20 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:19,920 same time, but relatively close, Like what four months apart. 21 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:22,760 I can remember being a kid going what are you 22 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:25,560 talking about? I can see Bond in June and Bond 23 00:01:25,599 --> 00:01:29,599 in October? Right, it's fantastic. Absolutely, sign me up. 24 00:01:29,719 --> 00:01:32,519 Speaker 1: I can have. I actually have a memory of walking 25 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:36,640 by the old movie theater in Central Mall, Fort Smith, Arkansas, 26 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:39,640 seeing the poster for Never Say Never Again and saying 27 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:41,640 to my dad why is this movie called Never Say 28 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,239 Never Again? And my dad telling me, well, I'm pretty 29 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:48,040 sure that Sean Connery said he would never play James 30 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:51,239 Bond again, and now he is, and so that's probably 31 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:53,680 why the movies named this. I was like, there's another 32 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:55,599 guy who plays James Bond. 33 00:01:55,959 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, right, So do you remember your first Bond experience? 34 00:02:00,599 --> 00:02:03,719 Speaker 1: No, I mean it was I mean, that's that memory 35 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:06,959 right there is the first like vivid, I can say, yes, 36 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:09,800 that happened. But James Bond was just kind of a 37 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:12,520 part of childhood. I mean, my dad loved the movies 38 00:02:12,719 --> 00:02:15,199 and they would come on TV all of the time, 39 00:02:15,759 --> 00:02:17,919 and so I just saw them, you know, they were 40 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:20,080 just all out there and I just saw him. Bond 41 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:21,879 was just out there and he was cool. And I 42 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:24,439 would see the movies as they came on, yeah about you? 43 00:02:24,759 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 2: Well yeah, so I remember very vividly in nineteen eighty one, 44 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:32,360 my friend he's like, now you gotta go see four 45 00:02:32,439 --> 00:02:35,159 Year Eyes Only. And I'm like, what what is four 46 00:02:35,199 --> 00:02:38,159 Year Eyes Only? He's like, it's the new James Bond movie. 47 00:02:38,199 --> 00:02:40,599 And I'm like, who is James Bond. I don't know 48 00:02:40,599 --> 00:02:41,599 who James Bond is? 49 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:42,719 Speaker 1: Right? Oh? Wow? 50 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 3: OK? 51 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 2: And he's like, you what you know You've got You're 52 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:47,439 gonna love James Bond. 53 00:02:47,439 --> 00:02:48,199 Speaker 1: We got to go see it. 54 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 2: And so we went and saw four Year Eyes Only. 55 00:02:51,199 --> 00:02:53,759 And I was an instant James Bond fan. So four 56 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:56,520 Year Eyes Only for me is not only the best 57 00:02:56,599 --> 00:02:59,400 Roger Moore movie, but it's kind of my home movie, 58 00:02:59,439 --> 00:03:01,199 you know what I mean. And so that's the one 59 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:03,080 I go back to, is for your Eyes Only. So 60 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,039 when Octopus he comes out two years later. In that 61 00:03:06,039 --> 00:03:09,319 two year period, ABC used to have the Sunday Night movie. 62 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:11,240 They would show like The Spy Who Loved Me and 63 00:03:11,439 --> 00:03:14,639 Moonraker and Diamonds Are Forever, and I would just slowly 64 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:18,560 acquire these movies, and so by the time Octopusy shows up, 65 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:21,120 I am ready for a new James Bond movie. 66 00:03:21,159 --> 00:03:24,039 Speaker 1: That's awesome. You know, as time goes on, you get 67 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:28,120 the introduction of Timothy Dalton, you get the introduction of 68 00:03:28,199 --> 00:03:31,199 Pierce Brosen. I can still remember having conversations with my 69 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:33,840 friends when we knew that Roger Moore wasn't going to 70 00:03:33,879 --> 00:03:36,960 be the James Bond anymore, of you know, hey, it 71 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:39,360 needs to be that guy from Remington Steel. He is 72 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:41,840 the perfect guy for James Bond. Yeah, And then it 73 00:03:41,919 --> 00:03:44,319 wasn't him, and everybody was outraged, and I think I 74 00:03:44,759 --> 00:03:46,319 was like, I'm not going to go watch those movies. 75 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:50,280 I'm upset they didn't make Remington Steel James Bond. That's 76 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,319 just wrong. And then by the time that he actually 77 00:03:53,319 --> 00:03:56,039 that Pierce Brosen and becomes James Bond, I was just like, 78 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:58,919 he is the best James Bond who had the worst 79 00:03:59,039 --> 00:04:02,759 scripts to work with. There were some bad computer graphics 80 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,840 going on in those movies. The scripts weren't super good. 81 00:04:05,919 --> 00:04:08,439 But he was a really great James Bond without much 82 00:04:08,479 --> 00:04:10,199 to work with. That is true. 83 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:13,919 Speaker 2: However, he started off with a really good one. One GoldenEye, 84 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:16,839 in my opinion, is a good Bond movie, and so 85 00:04:16,959 --> 00:04:19,279 he had all that good credit in the bank and 86 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,399 the next bunch of them were terrible. 87 00:04:22,879 --> 00:04:25,160 Speaker 1: They were really bad. And gold and I I mean 88 00:04:25,759 --> 00:04:28,480 that was the introduction of James Bond into the video 89 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:32,399 game world too, which I mean GoldenEye was fantastic. I 90 00:04:32,439 --> 00:04:35,199 didn't I watched the movie, but I loved the video game. 91 00:04:35,439 --> 00:04:35,959 That's awesome. 92 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 2: That is very true. Maybe my favorite home video game 93 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:41,759 of all time. My friend's like, hey, I got to 94 00:04:41,759 --> 00:04:43,639 show you this cool video game. I'm like, listen, dude, 95 00:04:43,639 --> 00:04:45,720 I got a job and I got a wife. I 96 00:04:45,759 --> 00:04:48,120 don't have time for video games anymore. I played for 97 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:50,720 like thirty seconds. I'm like, I'm buying this tomorrow. 98 00:04:50,759 --> 00:04:51,959 Speaker 1: How old are you, dude? 99 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:57,199 Speaker 2: I'm I am. I am old, but I am not 100 00:04:57,439 --> 00:05:01,759 as old as Sean Connery or Roger in these two 101 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,959 movies or the record. Let's go ahead and get that 102 00:05:06,079 --> 00:05:09,639 out there, because that's an important factor when we discussed 103 00:05:09,639 --> 00:05:13,199 these two movies. Yeah, Sean Connery was fifty two when 104 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:15,920 he did Never Say Never Again. He had taken twelve 105 00:05:16,079 --> 00:05:16,800 years off. 106 00:05:17,319 --> 00:05:17,639 Speaker 1: YEP. 107 00:05:17,959 --> 00:05:21,199 Speaker 2: Diamonds Are Forever was in nineteen seventy one. He was forty, 108 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:23,399 but he looked like he was about fifty two. 109 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 1: He has an old look about him. He does. 110 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 2: He does Octopus. Roger Moore was fifty five. He's three 111 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:32,199 years older. 112 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:32,519 Speaker 1: Than Sean Connery. 113 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:34,279 Speaker 2: Most people don't really realize that. 114 00:05:34,399 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: He has a younger looking face. He just does. I mean, 115 00:05:37,079 --> 00:05:39,839 Roger Moore just has a younger looking appearance about him. 116 00:05:39,959 --> 00:05:43,480 Maybe it's the receding hairline that Sean Connery has, Maybe 117 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:46,959 it's the wrinkles. I can't really Maybe Roger Moore has 118 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:50,720 a good plastic surgeon. I'm not real sure, but Roger 119 00:05:50,759 --> 00:05:53,360 Moore always seemed to be younger, even though he was 120 00:05:53,399 --> 00:05:54,920 actually about three years older than Yeah. 121 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 2: Okay, so today we're ultimately going to compare Never Say 122 00:05:58,399 --> 00:06:02,319 Never Again from nineteen eighty three to Octopussy nineteen eighty three, 123 00:06:02,759 --> 00:06:06,000 Connery versus more Battle of the Bonds, and it's going 124 00:06:06,079 --> 00:06:09,120 to be great. But really, the interesting stories here are 125 00:06:09,199 --> 00:06:11,279 kind of the behind the scenes stuff. So if you 126 00:06:11,319 --> 00:06:14,600 say to yourself both of those movies sucked, hang on, 127 00:06:14,959 --> 00:06:18,759 because there is some interesting stuff going on behind the 128 00:06:18,759 --> 00:06:19,639 scenes of these movies. 129 00:06:20,079 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 1: Absolutely, there are much better James Bond movies out there 130 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:27,879 than Never Say Never Again and Octopussy. But we chose 131 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:31,720 these two because it was the summer of Bond versus Bond. 132 00:06:31,759 --> 00:06:34,839 That's right, and the story there is an impressive One's 133 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:36,399 you want to jump into the history. 134 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:38,199 Speaker 2: A little bit, let's I'm ready to get into it. 135 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:38,680 Let's go. 136 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:49,319 Speaker 1: Okay. So our story begins back in nineteen oh eight 137 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:53,079 with the birth of Ian Fleming. A year later we 138 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:57,439 have the birth of Albert R. Broccoli, nicknamed Cubby Broccoli 139 00:06:57,560 --> 00:06:59,720 by his family. A few years after that, in nineteen 140 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:03,199 fifty team we have the birth of Harry Saltzman, and 141 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:07,800 then nine years later we have the birth of Kevin 142 00:07:07,879 --> 00:07:12,600 mcclury mcclury. 143 00:07:12,759 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 2: Kevin mcclury. 144 00:07:13,759 --> 00:07:16,879 Speaker 1: Obviously the most important figure in this is Ian Fleming. 145 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:20,040 He was born to a wealthy family, grew up in 146 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:24,000 wealth and then, of course, a few years after his birth, 147 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:28,600 World War One begins and tragically his father dies in 148 00:07:28,639 --> 00:07:31,279 World War One. This comes into play with the character 149 00:07:31,319 --> 00:07:33,879 of James Bond. Later in the early movies, you don't 150 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:36,879 really get his history. He's a very two dimensional character, 151 00:07:36,959 --> 00:07:40,120 but later on, especially with the Daniel Craig version, you 152 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:42,480 get some of that backstory, which includes him being an 153 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:46,879 orphan yep. So he ends up going to Eton for college, 154 00:07:46,959 --> 00:07:52,720 where he meets and intensely dislikes a gentleman named Scarmanga. 155 00:07:52,879 --> 00:07:55,439 Who is that right? Are you kidding me? No, I'm 156 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:58,920 not kidding The scar Manga is named after a guy 157 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:01,399 that he hated and college. I don't think he had 158 00:08:01,439 --> 00:08:08,519 three nipples, but yes, that's where that name comes from. 159 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:10,519 And he writes his first story there. 160 00:08:12,319 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 2: Let's let people in on the joke. If you are 161 00:08:14,199 --> 00:08:18,319 a just basic, not very intricate James Bond fan, you 162 00:08:18,319 --> 00:08:20,839 may not recognize that name. That is the villain from 163 00:08:20,839 --> 00:08:22,959 the movie The Man with the Golden Gun, and he 164 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:26,759 does have three nipples, played by Christopher Lee, which more 165 00:08:26,839 --> 00:08:29,639 impersonates him by putting on a fake third nipple, which 166 00:08:29,639 --> 00:08:31,160 is a very weird part in that movie. 167 00:08:32,039 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: Keep going, okay, you mean mind nubbin. 168 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:41,679 Speaker 2: Teddler being and Scaramanga. 169 00:08:41,799 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 1: Okay, right. So, so, while while Fleming is in college, 170 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:53,759 Broccoli his family has moved to the United States. They 171 00:08:53,759 --> 00:08:58,120 introduced broccoli seeds to the US, according to his obituary 172 00:08:58,200 --> 00:08:59,960 in the New York Times. I don't know how accurate 173 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,320 that is, but you know, let's go with it. 174 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:08,039 Speaker 2: Telling me that Broccoli is named after Cubby Broccley's relatives. 175 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,039 Speaker 1: That's what it sounds like from the from the oh 176 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:13,159 bit in the New York Times. Yes, they're the ones 177 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:16,360 that brought the seeds over. They're from Italy and broccoli 178 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:19,840 is is based on the Italian words. And so who 179 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:21,480 am I? I'm just a guy here. I just I 180 00:09:22,399 --> 00:09:24,960 reported as a reader. That's all I can do. Okay, 181 00:09:25,039 --> 00:09:28,120 all right? And then Saltzman is running away from his 182 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:33,200 home and joining the circus. I'm not kidding, literally joining 183 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:38,559 the circus. Okay, all right, this is an interesting bunch 184 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:42,919 of characters. And then I guess, I guess McClure is 185 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:45,799 learning to scuba dive. I'm not sure what he's doing 186 00:09:45,879 --> 00:09:49,279 at this time. So Ian Fleming, he goes to college 187 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:54,360 and then does some does some journalism work, and then 188 00:09:54,519 --> 00:09:58,240 World War Two starts to happen and he becomes due 189 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:02,120 to the at the behest of his He becomes an 190 00:10:02,159 --> 00:10:06,919 assistant to a gentleman named Admiral Godfried, who is in 191 00:10:07,039 --> 00:10:11,039 charge of all of like the secret operations of the 192 00:10:11,159 --> 00:10:17,000 UK during World War Two, and Godfried basically tells Fleming, hey, 193 00:10:17,039 --> 00:10:20,360 you are a super creative guy. Use that creativity to 194 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:22,840 think up stuff to help us. And there's I mean, 195 00:10:22,879 --> 00:10:25,759 he actually thought up a plan in order to get 196 00:10:25,799 --> 00:10:29,919 control of the Enigma machine. His idea was to have 197 00:10:30,159 --> 00:10:35,240 a UK pilot fly a German plane and crash it 198 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,879 in the ocean near a German ship so that the 199 00:10:38,919 --> 00:10:41,279 ship will come over and try to save them, and 200 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,480 then the pilot then takes over the boat and they 201 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:46,799 get access to the Enigma machine. That was his plan. 202 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:51,120 For several years, he's involved with this type of espionage, 203 00:10:51,159 --> 00:10:55,240 type of creative service, and that's what is the seed 204 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:58,240 for all of his stories. I mean, he basically said 205 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:03,000 ninety percent of his stories are based upon facts and 206 00:11:03,039 --> 00:11:05,679 the other ten percent or him just making some stuff up. 207 00:11:05,799 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 2: That's really cool, you know, Thunderball and never say Never again. 208 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:12,519 I mean, that's knocking on the door of being familiar 209 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,080 territory to the plot lines of those two movies. Okay, 210 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:16,759 that's amazing, keep going. 211 00:11:16,879 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 1: Okay. So he at some point tells somebody, you know, 212 00:11:19,879 --> 00:11:22,080 when I'm done with all of this, I am going 213 00:11:22,159 --> 00:11:25,879 to write the greatest spy novel that has ever been written. 214 00:11:26,039 --> 00:11:31,559 And so he ends his time with Admiral Godfried, who 215 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:35,720 becomes kind of the basis of m later on, and 216 00:11:35,759 --> 00:11:40,120 then he ends up renting this place down in Jamaica 217 00:11:40,279 --> 00:11:42,720 called GoldenEye. 218 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 2: GoldenEye where Sting wrote every breath you take and all 219 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:51,039 of synchronicity. Basically, yes, it's incredible. 220 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 1: So he didn't write. He did not write his first 221 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:59,679 Bond book until he was forty three years old. That's 222 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:02,399 inc it's insane. It's a year younger than I am 223 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:06,519 right now. I mean, it's like very get busy starting 224 00:12:06,519 --> 00:12:16,919 a podcast or something. So during this time that he's 225 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:20,279 doing all of this cool stuff, Broccoli starts working for 226 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:23,679 Howard Hughes after he takes over the movie The Outlaw. 227 00:12:23,759 --> 00:12:25,919 You know The Outlaw. If you don't know the movie, 228 00:12:26,039 --> 00:12:29,120 you know the picture of Jane Russell profile with her 229 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:34,120 amazing like torpedo Cleevebi's going on there, I am familiar, 230 00:12:34,279 --> 00:12:36,559 keep going. He becomes a part of that movie with 231 00:12:36,639 --> 00:12:39,480 Howard Hughes when Howard Hughes takes over for Howard Hawks 232 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:41,759 when he got fired. This will come into play later on. 233 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:45,720 And so Saltzman has been in the circus and he's 234 00:12:45,879 --> 00:12:48,919 like in vaudeville, and so he at some point becomes 235 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:53,799 interested in James Bond likes the character, and he buys 236 00:12:54,159 --> 00:12:58,720 the rights to the character of James Bond. Broccley wants 237 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:01,480 to buy the rights to the character of James Bond, 238 00:13:01,639 --> 00:13:04,960 but then finds out that Saltzman already has them. He 239 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:09,440 through a mutual friend, meets up with him and they 240 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:11,639 decide instead of you know, Broccolay says, I want to 241 00:13:11,639 --> 00:13:14,360 buy the rights from you. Saltzman says no, but I 242 00:13:14,399 --> 00:13:17,639 will form a company with you, and that company becomes 243 00:13:17,879 --> 00:13:21,679 Ion Productions, which is the company that is responsible for 244 00:13:21,879 --> 00:13:25,720 almost all of the James Bond movies. So Ian Fleming 245 00:13:25,919 --> 00:13:27,960 in this time, this was nineteen sixty one that they 246 00:13:28,039 --> 00:13:33,279 bought the rights to James Bond. He unfortunately, about three 247 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:37,559 years earlier, thought hey, it'd be a great idea to 248 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:39,600 make James Bond into a movie. 249 00:13:39,919 --> 00:13:40,279 Speaker 3: Uh huh. 250 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:43,399 Speaker 1: And he thought that because he had recently met a 251 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:47,159 guy named Kevin mccluy, and Kevin mccluy was this guy 252 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:51,000 who was an avid scuba diver and adventurer. So McClory 253 00:13:51,159 --> 00:13:54,879 had also been had become involved in movies. He had 254 00:13:55,039 --> 00:13:58,240 been an assistant to John Houston and had worked on 255 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:03,879 The African Queen Ulan Rouge and what ended up being 256 00:14:03,919 --> 00:14:08,840 an assistant director on Moby Dick, which starred James Mason, 257 00:14:08,879 --> 00:14:11,799 who we will learn later was one of the original 258 00:14:11,799 --> 00:14:13,799 people considered to be James Bond in the first James 259 00:14:13,799 --> 00:14:17,879 Bond movies. Oh all right, cool, right, So this guy 260 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:20,600 he was, he got he was he hooked up with 261 00:14:20,639 --> 00:14:23,039 Elizabeth Taylor. I mean, this is not this is no 262 00:14:23,399 --> 00:14:25,600 you know, con man. This is a guy who's in 263 00:14:25,639 --> 00:14:29,759 the industry and romancing the starlets. 264 00:14:29,879 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 2: Okay, now, wait a minute. Kevin McClory dated Elizabeth Taylor 265 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:35,519 in her prime. Is that correct? 266 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 1: Yes, that is correct. He dated her and actually got 267 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:42,480 engaged to marry her. 268 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,159 Speaker 2: Anybody who can date Elizabeth Taylor in her prime has 269 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:47,240 kind of got it going on, all right, keep going. 270 00:14:48,399 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 1: So Unfortunately, Kevin McClory had come in nineteen fifty eight 271 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:58,879 and talked to Ian Fleming and said, hey, I think 272 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:02,919 that this James Bond character would be a great character 273 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:06,600 to have in the movies. And Ian Fleming was like, cool, 274 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:11,279 let's do that. Yeah, and so and so they together 275 00:15:11,519 --> 00:15:16,200 started working on a movie script. Movie script had multiple 276 00:15:16,279 --> 00:15:20,799 names including James Bond of the Secret Service. 277 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 2: And Longitude seventy eight West. 278 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, that's a terrible, terrible turble. It's a terrible title. 279 00:15:29,559 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 2: That's that's like saying, I'm gonna do a movie about 280 00:15:32,159 --> 00:15:34,840 Disney World, I'm gonna call it main Street USA. You know, 281 00:15:34,919 --> 00:15:36,960 I mean, that's a terrible title. 282 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: All those things aside, Fleming, mcclury, and a guy named 283 00:15:41,559 --> 00:15:45,120 Jack Winningham all worked together. They put this script together. 284 00:15:45,559 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 2: In nineteen fifty nine, Fleming met with mclury and Waddingham 285 00:15:48,519 --> 00:15:51,919 to have a script conference and that's when they actually 286 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,039 Fleming is the one who changed the title from Longitude 287 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:59,279 seventy eight West to Thunderball. January of nineteen sixty, McClory 288 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:03,919 visits at GoldenEye to tell him he's working on the 289 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:07,799 final script for this thing, and you know, Flemy's just like, okay, yeah, 290 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:11,960 I keep going. So once they sit down talk about 291 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:15,759 the final script, he goes away to kind of finalize things. 292 00:16:16,879 --> 00:16:19,799 Fleming sits down at his desk at GoldenEye and writes 293 00:16:19,879 --> 00:16:22,519 Thunderball based on that script. 294 00:16:23,159 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, and just to I mean, just to let you 295 00:16:25,679 --> 00:16:29,639 know how Fleming worked. It was unlike most authors work. 296 00:16:30,039 --> 00:16:34,000 He was producing a book every single year. I mean 297 00:16:34,879 --> 00:16:40,440 from Casino Royal on he issued a book every year, 298 00:16:40,519 --> 00:16:43,399 and he would go he would go have a swim 299 00:16:43,639 --> 00:16:46,000 in the morning out at GoldenEye. He'd have a swim 300 00:16:46,039 --> 00:16:48,080 in the ocean. He would come back and have a 301 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:51,360 breakfast of scrambled eggs and toast. He would sit down 302 00:16:51,399 --> 00:16:55,399 at his old typewriter and he would crank out the pages. 303 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:59,320 I mean, just type NonStop. Didn't review it, didn't look 304 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:02,360 at it. I mean, there was no meticulousness about this. 305 00:17:02,799 --> 00:17:05,240 He was just right, right, right, right right. And so 306 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:08,920 I'm sure that at the point that they are, at 307 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:11,599 this stage where he's got this outline in his head, 308 00:17:12,599 --> 00:17:15,839 there's no question that he should have known better than 309 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:19,400 to write a book based upon what they have already 310 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:22,000 talked about and not give any credit to anybody. 311 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:27,279 Speaker 2: It's really not smart on Ian Fleming's part. And I 312 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:29,680 hate to say that because he's the author of a 313 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:32,519 lot of these stories that I love so much, but man, 314 00:17:32,519 --> 00:17:34,880 he just wasn't very bright on how he decided to 315 00:17:35,039 --> 00:17:36,400 go about well. 316 00:17:36,519 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 1: I mean, he his lifestyle I think was very similar 317 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:44,319 to James Bond, and I think he had this kind 318 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:48,480 of bulletproof attitude about him that he could probably do 319 00:17:48,559 --> 00:17:50,599 whatever he wanted to do and get away with it, 320 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,480 just because of the life that he had led and 321 00:17:53,839 --> 00:17:56,200 unfortunately he was wrong in this particular circumstance. 322 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:58,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, so Kevin McClory gets a hold of an early 323 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:02,799 copy of this not called Thunderball, and when he reads it, 324 00:18:02,839 --> 00:18:06,960 he's like, what the crap, this guy has stolen my ideas. 325 00:18:07,559 --> 00:18:10,359 And when they had got together, of course there's lots 326 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:14,960 of drinking, lots of talking, lots of discussion and it 327 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:19,200 becomes hard to sort out who thought about what, and 328 00:18:19,279 --> 00:18:22,759 so so mccluy sued to keep the book off the shelves. 329 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:24,640 Speaker 1: Just to let you know, I mean, we don't want 330 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:27,920 to paint mccluy. I've given him kind of the evil 331 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:30,920 introduction a couple times, but he did he's not necessarily 332 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,079 the bad guy in this particular scenario. Like Ian Fleming 333 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:36,799 got together with Jack winning him and said, hey, how 334 00:18:36,839 --> 00:18:39,279 about we just kind of kicked this guy out. I mean, 335 00:18:39,319 --> 00:18:43,240 he had his motivation was to get this guy out 336 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:47,759 of the picture. And Whittingham didn't fall into that plan. 337 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:51,480 And ultimately, when Thunderball came out, mcclury said, hey, have 338 00:18:51,599 --> 00:18:54,799 you seen this, and Jack whitting him like yeah, and 339 00:18:54,839 --> 00:18:57,279 so they both sued him. It was at the High 340 00:18:57,279 --> 00:19:00,599 Court in London, as you said, that happened on November twentieth, 341 00:19:01,079 --> 00:19:06,599 nineteen sixty three, and the case was settled in nine days. 342 00:19:07,079 --> 00:19:09,559 I don't know what it was like back in nineteen 343 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:13,799 sixty three, but a case getting settled nine days after 344 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:17,440 it got filed is amazing. 345 00:19:17,599 --> 00:19:19,440 Speaker 2: That's pretty open and shut, right. 346 00:19:20,079 --> 00:19:23,039 Speaker 1: Yeah. So, and I mean, just to let you know 347 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:27,680 who was probably the culpable party here, Fleming paid mcclury 348 00:19:27,799 --> 00:19:33,079 damages of thirty five thousand pounds. He also paid his 349 00:19:33,279 --> 00:19:37,400 court costs, which was fifty two thousand pounds, and mcclury 350 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:42,319 got the future versions of the novel credited as based 351 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:47,039 on a screen treatment by Kevin mcclury, Jack Whittingham, and 352 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:53,279 Ian Fleming in that order. Like, I mean, that's freaking huge. Yeah. 353 00:19:53,319 --> 00:19:57,599 But what we also need to know, and this is important, 354 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:00,960 some people make decisions under certain types of stress. In 355 00:20:01,039 --> 00:20:03,839 the middle of that nine days, Ian Fleming had a 356 00:20:03,839 --> 00:20:04,839 freaking heart attack. 357 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 2: Among the things, like you said that McClory won, he 358 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:13,000 also had the right to make Thunderball as a movie. 359 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:20,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, he won the screenplay treatments, and that was something. 360 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:24,519 Here's here's an interesting thing. Now, So this is nineteen 361 00:20:24,599 --> 00:20:28,720 sixty three, so they work together in nineteen fifty eight. 362 00:20:29,759 --> 00:20:33,839 The first Bond movie comes out in nineteen sixty two. Yes, 363 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:36,680 Doctor No, Doctor No comes out in NCC sixty two. 364 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:40,160 This is nineteen sixty three year later, so we I mean, 365 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:45,519 they all know Doctor No is a big hit. Kubby 366 00:20:45,559 --> 00:20:48,359 Brockley is involved with the movie at this point. Harry 367 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,599 Saltzman is involved with the movie at this point, and 368 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:56,519 so they say to him, yes, you can have the 369 00:20:56,559 --> 00:21:01,599 screenplay rights to this particular storyline, and then you are 370 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:06,799 allowed to reproduce it ten years from now. So here's 371 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:09,359 here are the two possibilities that I see as a 372 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:13,240 legal analysis on this one. For them to give up 373 00:21:13,839 --> 00:21:15,880 not only hey, we're going to give you the screenplay now, 374 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:17,759 but we're gonna let you reproduce it every ten years. 375 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:21,920 There's only two possibilities. Either they thought this thing, the 376 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,160 story's going to be over in ten years and nobody's 377 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,279 going to care, right, Or they thought we're going to 378 00:21:27,319 --> 00:21:31,920 be so financially successful in ten years after making all 379 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:36,039 of the Bond stories and movies that we've got, that 380 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:38,480 we're going to be rich enough to stop him from 381 00:21:38,519 --> 00:21:41,559 doing this, you know, or some sort of remake of 382 00:21:41,599 --> 00:21:45,799 the Thunderball and ultimately that's kind of what ends up happening. 383 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:48,839 It's very very interesting. It's very interesting. 384 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 2: It seems to me that they are trying to give 385 00:21:51,599 --> 00:21:54,599 McClory everything they can to kind of make him go away, 386 00:21:54,799 --> 00:21:58,440 pacify him with film rights, remake rights, and I was 387 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:01,440 telling you that McCloy go it's all this credit for Thunderball, 388 00:22:01,759 --> 00:22:04,079 but there's some question about whether or not he gets 389 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:05,079 credit for Spector. 390 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:07,920 Speaker 1: Which Spector. You know, Spector's huge, I mean. 391 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:09,839 Speaker 2: Bond's bad main bad guy. 392 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:12,519 Speaker 1: Is spect the key bad guy. I mean that the 393 00:22:12,519 --> 00:22:14,680 the through the series you get you get a movie 394 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:17,440 in the twenty first century named spect I mean it's 395 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,200 and you look at all of the all of the spoofs, 396 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:23,359 any of those things, it's always got Specter involved, right, 397 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,920 I mean absolutely. If you look at Austin Powers and 398 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:31,960 Number two and Doctor Evil, that is all Spector, right right. 399 00:22:32,599 --> 00:22:34,680 And then you know the chairs that are all lined up. 400 00:22:34,759 --> 00:22:39,680 I mean, so you watch Thunderball and you see you 401 00:22:39,759 --> 00:22:41,960 see Number two walk in with his eye patch, and 402 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,440 they all go to the chairs, and the guy who's 403 00:22:44,519 --> 00:22:47,160 hidden behind the screens petting his little cat is a 404 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:50,960 White Cat. I'm just all from Thunderball. It's all from Thunderball. 405 00:22:51,079 --> 00:22:53,839 So the fact that Kevin mcclury has got the rights 406 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:59,000 to this particular storyline is huge because this particular storyline 407 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:01,960 is a made your factor in so many of the 408 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:02,680 Bond films. 409 00:23:03,079 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 2: And yeah, specifically, Spector was the bad guy in Doctor No, 410 00:23:07,799 --> 00:23:11,240 the bad guy in From Russia with Love. It's mentioned 411 00:23:11,279 --> 00:23:15,480 in Goldfinger. So they don't want him to have any 412 00:23:15,519 --> 00:23:19,039 claim on revenues from those previous movies that are huge successes. 413 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:19,799 Speaker 1: But just to. 414 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:23,559 Speaker 2: Clarify, Specter is a group of bad guys that they 415 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,559 needed to create that wasn't the Russians. 416 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,559 Speaker 1: And it wasn't the mafia, wasn't the Germans. 417 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 2: This, and it wasn't the Germans, right, this nefarious group 418 00:23:32,279 --> 00:23:40,480 of bad guys. The inspector stands for Special Executive for Terrorism, revenge, Extortion. 419 00:23:40,839 --> 00:23:46,599 Speaker 1: Yeah, and the introduction of Specter in Thunderball is fantastic 420 00:23:46,839 --> 00:23:51,839 because it's just this meeting of evil characters who are like, 421 00:23:52,599 --> 00:23:56,960 it's like a business meeting of criminals. It's and it's not. 422 00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,640 It's it's fantastic. And then one of the guy, you know, 423 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,680 there's two guys who were responsible for some sort of 424 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,680 I think it's like a drug deal or something like that. Yeah, 425 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,599 and the headman of Specter says yes, but basically you've 426 00:24:11,599 --> 00:24:13,920 been cooking the books. And one of the guys is 427 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,920 like what no, and the other guy's like, yeah, everything's cool, 428 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,920 We're cool. And that cool guy's just zapped dumped and he's. 429 00:24:20,759 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 2: Gone yes, and he goes under and he's like, I'm 430 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:29,240 very badly burned, but oh no, I'm sorry, that's awesome power. 431 00:24:31,319 --> 00:24:35,319 I get him confused a little bit. Bells of Olmons, 432 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,359 but the bad guy, you wait before we get off 433 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,720 of this. So Specter is a very important piece in this. 434 00:24:44,319 --> 00:24:48,599 Obviously thunderball. They got their butts kicked in court. McCrory 435 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,319 took him to task on that one. But Blofeld is 436 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:54,480 in play as well. Blofeld is like if somebody sued 437 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,759 George Lucas and they won the rights to Darth Vader, right, 438 00:24:58,039 --> 00:25:00,880 Blofeld is the number one bad guy, the head of Specter. 439 00:25:01,279 --> 00:25:04,119 He's the bald guy that strokes the cat in all 440 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,960 the movies, right right, And that they wanted to make 441 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,160 sure that Kevin mcluy didn't get ahold of that guy. 442 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,559 Speaker 1: And just as a side note, in the Austin Powers movie, 443 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,519 the character of Number two is played by the actor 444 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,680 Robert Wagner, who when they were trying to decide who 445 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:24,519 the new James Bond would be after Timothy Dalton, they 446 00:25:24,559 --> 00:25:27,279 were looking at him and he was like, no, I'm 447 00:25:27,279 --> 00:25:29,759 too American. You should You should just go ahead and 448 00:25:29,759 --> 00:25:30,880 give that to Pierce Brosnan. 449 00:25:36,839 --> 00:25:39,400 Speaker 2: Speaking of Americans, I'm I'll throw a little plug in. 450 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,599 Speaker 1: Here for Octopus real quick. Yeah. 451 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 2: So obviously when Never Say Never Again is remade, which 452 00:25:46,799 --> 00:25:49,480 Never Say Never Again, for those who don't know, is 453 00:25:49,599 --> 00:25:54,720 a remake of Thunderball based on Kevin McClory's ability to 454 00:25:54,759 --> 00:25:57,319 remake that movie every ten years. So I did that, 455 00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:58,559 would Never Say Never Again? 456 00:25:58,839 --> 00:25:59,079 Speaker 1: Right? 457 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,720 Speaker 2: Connery comes back, takes the role at age fifty two. 458 00:26:02,279 --> 00:26:05,079 Roger Moore is three years older than him, so when 459 00:26:05,079 --> 00:26:10,119 he is in Octopus, he's fifty five, right. So after 460 00:26:10,559 --> 00:26:13,440 for your eyes only, Roger Moore said, I want to retire. 461 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,920 I'm too old to do James Bond anymore. And so 462 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:20,880 you can actually YouTube James Roland does his screen test 463 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,680 as an American James Bond, and I was telling you. 464 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,640 He doesn't even play with an English accent. He is 465 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:31,480 doing it as mister coole American. Think George Clooney, you know, 466 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:33,240 just cool and classy American. 467 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,920 Speaker 1: So Sean Connery is not the first actor to ever 468 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:41,720 portray James Bond, and Doctor No is not. It was 469 00:26:41,799 --> 00:26:45,279 not the first novel. So why wasn't the first novel 470 00:26:45,319 --> 00:26:49,359 the first James Bond movie? Well, actually it was right. 471 00:26:49,559 --> 00:26:53,599 The first time that James Bond is ever portrayed on 472 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:57,079 the screen is on a TV show called Climax, in 473 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:01,640 an episode called Casino Royale. The actor that portrays him 474 00:27:01,799 --> 00:27:05,640 is Barry Nelson, who hasn't been in pretty much anything 475 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,599 else that you probably would have heard of except the Shining. 476 00:27:09,039 --> 00:27:13,160 He is the guy who sends Jack Nicholson off to 477 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:19,680 the hotel with this Oh are you serious? Yeah? Yeah, 478 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:24,000 So he plays this, He plays this James Bond character, 479 00:27:24,079 --> 00:27:26,920 but he plays him as an American, and so that 480 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,119 let's see in Fleming know, hey, Bond might be good 481 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:34,440 for the screen. Which then in nineteen fifty five, a 482 00:27:34,519 --> 00:27:39,279 year later, he sells the rights to Casino roy Al 483 00:27:39,599 --> 00:27:42,359 to a guy named Greg Radoff. Okay, and he's a 484 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:48,680 producer now he's thinking, Okay, they're gonna make Casino roy Al, 485 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,960 I know a movie. The only problem is Greg Radoff 486 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:57,599 and his writer, whose name is Lorenzo Simple, who to 487 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,319 let you know his experience. He wrote Three Days of 488 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,480 the Condor and he wrote the early version like the 489 00:28:04,519 --> 00:28:10,680 sixties versions of Batman with Adam West. But greg Radoff 490 00:28:10,759 --> 00:28:13,440 and Lorenzo Simple look at James Bond and they go, 491 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,599 this character is stupid. There's no way that anybody would 492 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,759 believe that a man could say the stuff to women 493 00:28:20,839 --> 00:28:24,079 that he's saying right now. So what we need to 494 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:26,799 do is we need to change the character into a woman, 495 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:31,160 and we're going to call her Jane Bond. Yeah. So 496 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:36,400 fortunately before all of that happened, greg Radoff dies and 497 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:43,519 greg Radoff's attorney slash agent, Charles Feldman, buys the rights 498 00:28:43,519 --> 00:28:49,240 to Casina Royale from his widow and he gets together 499 00:28:49,319 --> 00:28:51,440 with Howard Hawks. I told you he'd come back in 500 00:28:52,079 --> 00:28:55,319 Howard Hawks and he says, Okay, we need to make 501 00:28:55,359 --> 00:28:58,960 this movie. We need to make this book into a movie. 502 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,759 Casina Royle need to make this book into a movie. 503 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:07,440 And they were going to hire Lee Pucket as a writer, 504 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:11,319 and they were going to hire Carrie Grant as James Bond. Now, 505 00:29:11,319 --> 00:29:13,279 I know you've heard of Carrie Grant, but do you 506 00:29:13,279 --> 00:29:14,400 know who Lee Puckett is? 507 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:15,079 Speaker 3: No? 508 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,680 Speaker 1: Tell me, well, remember in our Raiders of the Lost 509 00:29:18,759 --> 00:29:20,880 Arc versus Back to the Future episode where I talked 510 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,839 to you about George Lucas telling Lawrence Casten, Hey, I 511 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,880 had this lady writing the Empire strikes back for me, 512 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:28,920 but then she died. 513 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:34,559 Speaker 3: Yes, Lee Puckett, Wow, yeah, Wow, that's amazing. 514 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,720 Speaker 1: So Charles Feldman has the rights to Seina Royale, which 515 00:29:37,759 --> 00:29:41,839 is why it never got made by Eon Productions as 516 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,480 a Bond movie. They started with Doctor No, and then 517 00:29:44,519 --> 00:29:47,440 they went through all of their pieces and then you know, 518 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,720 we're talking about the time and history where two James 519 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,119 Bond movies were going head to head. But it's not 520 00:29:53,599 --> 00:29:56,119 the first time that this ever happened. The first time 521 00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:00,200 it ever happened was in nineteen sixty seven when. 522 00:30:00,039 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 2: And Casino Royale went against You only lived twice. 523 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: So Casino Royal is a James Bond movie, but it's 524 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:12,480 a spoof, right, It's a satire and it stars David Niven, 525 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,359 who was you would know, I mean our age group 526 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,960 would know him. As the villain, if you'll call him 527 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,240 that in The Pink Panther. But David Niven was one 528 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:25,160 of the guys who was originally considered to be James Bond. 529 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:29,000 David Niven, Carrie Grant, James Mason, who I mentioned before, 530 00:30:29,319 --> 00:30:32,240 were the guys that they wanted to be James Bond 531 00:30:32,279 --> 00:30:36,279 before they ultimately settled on Sean Connery. But then nineteen 532 00:30:36,319 --> 00:30:39,640 sixty seven happens. David Niven's like, yeah, let's go ahead 533 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,000 and do this thing. And so they make this movie 534 00:30:42,359 --> 00:30:45,839 Casino Royale that's got him and Peter Sellers and several 535 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,000 other famous actors, and it's all this who's the real 536 00:30:49,079 --> 00:30:51,920 James Bond kind of storyline, and it's all supposed to 537 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:55,319 be comedy, which was appropriate, but that's the first time 538 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,920 that two Bonds went head to head in the same year. 539 00:30:58,519 --> 00:31:01,720 Speaker 2: So back to Thunderball, when and Cubby Broccoli and Harry 540 00:31:01,759 --> 00:31:05,480 Saltzman are making this movie and they see that Kevin 541 00:31:05,519 --> 00:31:07,799 mcclurey is going to be a royal pain in the butt, 542 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:10,400 A fly in the white meant a monkey in the wrench. 543 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,599 I can't wait to do Diehard, But yeah, they make 544 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:19,160 him producer of the movie Thunderball, hoping again to pacify 545 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,039 this guy so he will go away. Even though he's 546 00:31:22,079 --> 00:31:25,000 got in his back pocket he can remake Thunderball every 547 00:31:25,039 --> 00:31:27,640 ten years. So they put him in charge of filming 548 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:29,440 underwater scenes. 549 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:31,960 Speaker 1: Right. He was the scuba diver. And that's why this 550 00:31:32,039 --> 00:31:34,640 movie is so that underwater scenes are such a big 551 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,240 factor in this movie is because Kevin McClory was a 552 00:31:37,279 --> 00:31:39,400 big scuba diver and he's like, hey, I really want, 553 00:31:39,519 --> 00:31:41,559 you know, underwater scenes to be a big part of this. 554 00:31:41,759 --> 00:31:45,759 And so back in the sixties, those underwater scenes were amazing. 555 00:31:45,839 --> 00:31:47,880 I mean, nobody had done that stuff except in like 556 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:49,960 the TV series Flipper. 557 00:31:50,319 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's why Thunderball, when you look at it today, 558 00:31:53,559 --> 00:31:56,279 it is like watching a movie in slow motion because 559 00:31:56,319 --> 00:32:00,880 everything's underwater. Yeah, the fight scenes are very slow motion, 560 00:32:01,119 --> 00:32:01,480 you know. 561 00:32:01,519 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 1: So right right, So it's interesting, you know, that's that 562 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,599 is a factor of looking. You know, we're eighties kids, 563 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:11,559 and so we're looking at what was going on in 564 00:32:11,599 --> 00:32:15,039 the eighties back and we're and we're thinking, okay, Thunderball, 565 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,920 little slow with the I mean, why are we spending 566 00:32:18,039 --> 00:32:20,440 so much time? And then the undew water scenes. But 567 00:32:20,519 --> 00:32:23,839 that's because of our perspective. Right, It's interesting. I mean 568 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,440 we've gone through we've gone through several different steps where 569 00:32:27,519 --> 00:32:30,119 Ian Fleming is just trying to get this thing to 570 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,599 become a movie. From my perspective, I'm just thinking, how 571 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:37,720 do you not How does a studio not immediately go, Yeah, 572 00:32:37,759 --> 00:32:40,119 this is a fantastic character and this needs to be 573 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:46,400 a movie. It didn't happen until until jfk Yet listed 574 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:50,440 From Russia with Love as one of his top ten books. 575 00:32:50,759 --> 00:32:54,359 That was the push that Broccoli and Saltzman were looking 576 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,720 forward to get their movie made, and that's what led 577 00:32:57,039 --> 00:33:00,880 to the studio going to green lighting Doctor Now. Yep. 578 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,519 Speaker 2: It also caused the novels to explode of Ian Flemings. 579 00:33:04,839 --> 00:33:09,720 Speaker 1: Right, So, starting with Doctor No, we had studios that 580 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:13,000 wanted a big name. They wanted Carrie Grant, they wanted 581 00:33:13,079 --> 00:33:16,319 James Mason. But the problem is Carrie Grant says, I 582 00:33:16,319 --> 00:33:18,640 don't want to do more than one movie, and James 583 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,279 Mason says, I don't want to do more than two movies. 584 00:33:21,839 --> 00:33:24,440 And then they get to David Niven and he's like, no, 585 00:33:24,599 --> 00:33:26,759 I'm now I'm not really interested in doing more than 586 00:33:26,799 --> 00:33:30,279 three movies. But Ultimately, they decide we want to get 587 00:33:30,319 --> 00:33:33,839 an unknown actor to play the part of James Bond, 588 00:33:34,519 --> 00:33:38,400 and so they're going through several actors and one of 589 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,720 the guys that comes through is this unknown guy who's 590 00:33:41,759 --> 00:33:44,680 only been in this kind of weird little movie called 591 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:48,279 Darby O'Gill and the Little People and was in the 592 00:33:48,359 --> 00:33:53,400 chorus for like South Pacific or something. Yeah, but Saltzman 593 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:58,400 says that when he walked in, it was his walk 594 00:33:58,519 --> 00:34:02,079 that got him the part. He's this big man but 595 00:34:02,359 --> 00:34:06,000 walks with such poise like a cat, and he said 596 00:34:06,519 --> 00:34:10,559 that only this is Saltzman. Harry Saltzman said that only 597 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:15,440 Sean Connery and Albert Finnie are the only two large 598 00:34:15,519 --> 00:34:18,679 guys who walk in this way and would have been 599 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,880 appropriate for this part. Which is ironic because in the 600 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,559 early eighties, just before Never Say Never came out, Sean 601 00:34:26,599 --> 00:34:31,760 Connery was actually looking at becoming Daddy Warbucks in the 602 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,519 movie Annie. And I mean he really wanted it. He 603 00:34:35,639 --> 00:34:38,440 loved the play. He wanted to be in the movie, 604 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,760 but he was unsure about his singing ability. He even 605 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:44,559 took voice lessons, but they basically said you got to 606 00:34:44,599 --> 00:34:46,760 tell us now are you in or are you out 607 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:48,639 and he's like, I'm not sure. And at that point 608 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,320 they said, never mind, We're gonna go to with Albert Finnie, 609 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:55,440 who couldn't really sing anyway. He was terrible. Yes, so 610 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:57,480 it didn't matter. It was still a wonderful movie with 611 00:34:57,519 --> 00:35:01,079 a terrible singing Daddy Warbucks. Seawan could have been that guy. 612 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,159 How weird would life have been at that point? 613 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:03,719 Speaker 3: Wow? 614 00:35:04,039 --> 00:35:07,559 Speaker 1: But they they back in the early sixties. They land 615 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:12,119 on Sean Connery, who who was a casket maker? Yeh, 616 00:35:12,199 --> 00:35:15,280 who was a lorry driver. He had done all kinds 617 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,760 of things. And oddly Kubby Brockley had also been a 618 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:20,880 casket maker. I don't know, maybe that's the connection they 619 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:26,000 found anyway. Ian Fleming hated the idea of Sean Connery 620 00:35:26,039 --> 00:35:28,480 being James Bond. He would refer to him only as 621 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:34,360 that lorry driver. But then when Doctor No came out 622 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,760 and it was a massive success, Ian Fleming was like, Okay, 623 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,000 I like Sean Connery. It's all right. 624 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:46,519 Speaker 2: You know, we weren't alive obviously in the nineteen sixties. 625 00:35:46,599 --> 00:35:48,880 But the nineteen sixties a kind of known as having 626 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:53,400 spy mania. Right, so the Bond movies takeoff, Thunderball is 627 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,880 the first movie ever that they showed round the clock 628 00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,000 twenty four hours a day because they had so many 629 00:35:58,039 --> 00:35:59,960 people waiting in line to watch this movie. 630 00:36:00,079 --> 00:36:03,320 Speaker 1: Okay, Jason, let's jump back in. Let's talk about some 631 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:08,679 kind of staples for the James Bond movie formula. Okay, yeah, 632 00:36:09,159 --> 00:36:11,840 So the first movie that came out in the James 633 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:16,440 Bond series that we consider a cannon film is Doctor No. Right, 634 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:18,360 we talked about some of the things that came before, 635 00:36:18,559 --> 00:36:21,719 but Doctor No is the first of the Eon Productions, 636 00:36:22,039 --> 00:36:27,239 the first Sean Connery Bond movie, and it has as 637 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:31,960 the beginning scene the silhouette, the gun barrel, the turn 638 00:36:32,039 --> 00:36:38,199 and shoot that is iconic for all Bond movies. And 639 00:36:39,039 --> 00:36:42,840 when this first came out, the barrel and the silhouette, 640 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:48,599 everybody started applauding at that scene before anybody knew what 641 00:36:48,639 --> 00:36:50,679 was going on with James Bond. But you know what, 642 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:52,519 it wasn't Sean Connery. 643 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:54,559 Speaker 2: I know, that's amazing, huh. 644 00:36:54,599 --> 00:36:57,559 Speaker 1: It was Yeah, it was a stuntman named Bob Simmons. 645 00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:01,159 It was not Sean Connery in that first gun barrel scene. 646 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:05,119 Speaker 2: Okay, here's a little side note to Bob Simmons. All Right, 647 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,639 the guy who did the gun barrel scene. I think 648 00:37:07,679 --> 00:37:11,440 for the first three movies, he is the guy at 649 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:16,000 the beginning of Thunderball that's dressed in drag that James 650 00:37:16,079 --> 00:37:19,400 Bond pulls the that's a man baby and punches him 651 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,679 right in the face. That's the guy who does the 652 00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:24,360 gun barrel scene. 653 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,800 Speaker 1: That was a woman. They had a woman. Her face 654 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:31,400 is a woman, a woman, a woman right until Bond 655 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:37,400 punches her square in the jaw. Oh my gosh. So yes. 656 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:41,119 Speaker 2: The gun barrel scene is absolutely a critical part of 657 00:37:41,159 --> 00:37:44,320 the Bond cannon, which you don't get at the beginning 658 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:47,119 of Ever Say It Never Again. And really, Doctor No, 659 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:49,559 the first movie out of the gate, you didn't have 660 00:37:49,599 --> 00:37:52,440 that pre sequence scene and they were still kind of 661 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:54,079 feeling their way a little bit before they kind of 662 00:37:54,119 --> 00:37:55,599 nailed down the formula right. 663 00:37:55,840 --> 00:38:01,719 Speaker 1: And just as an interesting connection, Doctor No was released 664 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:05,480 the same day as the Beatles first single, and then 665 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:07,480 there's this kind of a weird yeah, there's this kind 666 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,360 of weird competition. And then even in James Bond, at 667 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:14,599 some point he's he makes the comment about I can't 668 00:38:14,599 --> 00:38:17,400 remember the quote, but it ends with it's like listening 669 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:18,960 to the Beatles without ear muffs on. 670 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:22,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's in Goldfinger. Yeah, yes, James Bond is too 671 00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:24,119 cool for the Beatles. 672 00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:28,000 Speaker 1: Right, So it wasn't until Goldfinger that we got that 673 00:38:28,199 --> 00:38:32,480 full formula of the beginning scene with like Bond always 674 00:38:32,599 --> 00:38:35,679 seduces a lady, he kills a bad guy, he gives 675 00:38:35,679 --> 00:38:39,360 his witty one liner, and then the music and the 676 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:44,039 silhouettes begin, and as it turns out, the Goldfinger soundtrack 677 00:38:44,639 --> 00:38:47,960 actually outsaw the Beatles that year's Finger. 678 00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:52,360 Speaker 2: Came out gold Finger. Yeah, so there's a lot of 679 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:54,480 things to the formula which I'd love to discuss maybe 680 00:38:54,519 --> 00:38:56,199 at the end when we kind of do final judgment. 681 00:38:56,280 --> 00:39:00,599 But yeah, you have the pre gun barrel sequence, right, 682 00:39:00,679 --> 00:39:04,519 the gun barrel. You have the theme song, opening credits. 683 00:39:05,079 --> 00:39:07,159 Speaker 1: So what of naked ladies Octopus? 684 00:39:07,199 --> 00:39:10,199 Speaker 2: He kind of pushes the envelope on this. You know, 685 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:13,079 you have gadgets and babes, bad guys and henchmen. 686 00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:15,000 Speaker 1: Don't don't forget the cool cars. 687 00:39:15,119 --> 00:39:17,800 Speaker 2: We've already argued about this on a previous podcast about 688 00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:19,960 what the coolest James Mont car was. 689 00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,800 Speaker 1: And I maintain I maintained my position it's the Aston Martin. 690 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,679 Speaker 2: But and then at the end we're going to compare Bonds. 691 00:39:25,599 --> 00:39:30,199 Speaker 1: With that formula. You had a lot of people who thought, wow, 692 00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:31,880 this is just something that we can make fun of. 693 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,920 So there was tons of talk shows like David Frost 694 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:38,280 would make fun of Bond routine Lee Back in the 695 00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:41,440 UK and his co host later got her own show, 696 00:39:41,639 --> 00:39:47,719 Millicent Martin, and she would do these Bond spoofs as well. 697 00:39:48,199 --> 00:39:50,800 And one of the actors that she got to play 698 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:55,159 Bond in her spoof was someone you might have heard of. 699 00:39:55,199 --> 00:39:56,840 His name is Roger Moore. 700 00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,119 Speaker 2: Oh really, I'd love to see that man. 701 00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:02,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's great. It is a great one. It's they're 702 00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:06,840 trying the comedy out and he's still Bond. I mean 703 00:40:07,119 --> 00:40:11,119 it's ten years before he becomes Bond, but he's still 704 00:40:11,159 --> 00:40:16,480 Bond in this goofy wow like late night TV bit so. 705 00:40:16,639 --> 00:40:21,360 Thunderball is the ninth book and Ian Fleming series. It 706 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:24,920 is the eighth full length Bond novel and it was 707 00:40:25,199 --> 00:40:28,800 first published in the UK by Jonathan Cape on March 708 00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:32,679 twenty seventh, nineteen sixty one. It was the novelization of 709 00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:36,199 that script that we talked about. After the lawsuit, McClory 710 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:39,920 gained the literary and film rights for the screenplay, while 711 00:40:40,039 --> 00:40:43,440 Fleming was given the rights to the novel, although it 712 00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:46,440 had to be recognized as being quote based on a 713 00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:50,000 screen treatment by Kevin McClory, Jack whitting Him and Ian 714 00:40:50,039 --> 00:40:51,039 Fleming in that order. 715 00:40:51,079 --> 00:40:53,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting you and I talked off air. Kubby 716 00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:57,480 Brockley and Harry Saltzman had to move up the production 717 00:40:57,559 --> 00:41:00,000 of Thunderball or else Kevin McClory was going to do 718 00:41:00,159 --> 00:41:03,119 it without them. So the interesting thing to me as 719 00:41:03,159 --> 00:41:06,360 a Bond fan is Thunderballs the fourth movie made. But 720 00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,280 that wasn't the original slate. We were supposed to get 721 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:13,000 on Her Majesty's Secret Service as number four, which means 722 00:41:13,119 --> 00:41:16,280 that Sean Connery would have played instead of George Lasmbee 723 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:17,679 the Bond from that movie. 724 00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,599 Speaker 1: Kind of interesting, right, Yeah, this lawsuit is not an 725 00:41:20,599 --> 00:41:24,159 insignificant thing. I mean, Ian Fleming had a heart attack 726 00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:27,039 during this short lawsuit. He had a heart attack in 727 00:41:27,119 --> 00:41:29,880 the middle of it. And then yeah, just a little 728 00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:33,800 while after, just August of nineteen sixty four, nine months 729 00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:36,760 after the trial is over, he has another heart attack 730 00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:43,679 and dies at the age of fifty six. So they 731 00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:46,840 make that movie, and then in nineteen seventy six, ten 732 00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:51,960 years later, mcclury announces he wants to produce an original 733 00:41:52,039 --> 00:41:55,159 James Bond film. The title that he wants to use 734 00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:59,320 is Warhead Warhead eight or James Bond of the Secret Service. 735 00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:04,280 But the project gets hampered by the Fleming Trustees and 736 00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:10,320 the Eon Producers filing lawsuits, right, and he gets slowed up. 737 00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:12,159 I mean, this is nineteen seventy six and we know 738 00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:17,079 Never Say Never Again doesn't come out for another seven years. 739 00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:20,360 He was not able to get the title of James 740 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:22,800 Bond of the Secret Service. They did stop him from 741 00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,280 doing that because it was too close to the title 742 00:42:25,679 --> 00:42:27,679 of Her Majesty's Secret Service. 743 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,440 Speaker 2: Now here's the interesting thing to me. Obviously, with Never 744 00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:33,760 Said Never Again, you get Sean Connery back in the role. 745 00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:37,440 But before he sort of had him there, he needed 746 00:42:37,639 --> 00:42:41,079 a bond, so he was going after Richard Burton, and 747 00:42:41,119 --> 00:42:43,800 he went after George Lasimbie. That would have been interesting 748 00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:46,800 to see George Lassibie back in that role. After nineteen 749 00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:50,039 sixty nine is Her Majesty's Secret Service with Orson Wells 750 00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:51,639 as Blowfield. 751 00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:54,880 Speaker 1: Right, Eon Productions was looking at other actors to play 752 00:42:55,039 --> 00:42:59,679 in Octopussy, and then when Sean Connery finally says, okay, 753 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:02,840 do it again. Ian Production says there's no way we 754 00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:05,239 can come out with James Brolin. And so at that 755 00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:08,159 point Roger Moore he had fulfilled his contract and was 756 00:43:08,199 --> 00:43:10,320 on a movie by Movie Basis, and he was ready 757 00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:12,360 to be done, but they convinced him to come back 758 00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:13,239 and do Octopussy. 759 00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:16,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, you can't take on Sean Connery in some rogue 760 00:43:16,159 --> 00:43:19,599 James Bond movie, some new guy, right, right, you know, 761 00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:22,440 as early as like you said, nineteen seventy five, nineteen 762 00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:25,760 seventy six, he's getting this together. In nineteen seventy eight 763 00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:28,960 he works on James Bond of the Secret Service, hoping 764 00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,599 to get Orson Wells as blowfeled Richard Attenborough as the director, 765 00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:35,920 and they were hoping to go up against Moonraker. 766 00:43:35,559 --> 00:43:39,760 Speaker 1: Right, and Richard Attenborough, of course we know later on 767 00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:44,119 later on goes on to become the grandfather in Jurassic Park, 768 00:43:44,199 --> 00:43:48,000 the park owner, that's right, who they had originally considered 769 00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:52,800 for that role. Mister Sean Connery. Yeah. And then James Brolin, 770 00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:56,159 of course, is the key actor in the movie Westworld, 771 00:43:56,519 --> 00:43:59,800 which was written and directed by Michael Crichton. 772 00:44:00,159 --> 00:44:04,719 Speaker 2: Also plays p w in Peean's Big Adventure, well that 773 00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:08,760 we can't leave that out, and obviously very James Bond 774 00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:14,400 like performance. But here's where it gets really interesting to me. 775 00:44:15,039 --> 00:44:19,519 So when Kevin McClory starts organizing this idea of going 776 00:44:19,599 --> 00:44:21,159 up against Moonraker and I'm going to. 777 00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:21,920 Speaker 1: Kick their button. 778 00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:23,679 Speaker 2: They're going to be sorry they did this to me, 779 00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:26,880 he calls Sean Connery and so he calls him up 780 00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:29,159 and says, listen, you're the best Bond ever. You know 781 00:44:29,199 --> 00:44:31,800 what he does. We need your insight. Why don't you 782 00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:33,599 come over and help us and be a consultant on 783 00:44:33,639 --> 00:44:35,960 our script, which we know is a big smoke screen, 784 00:44:36,079 --> 00:44:38,920 just to kind of lure him back in right to 785 00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:39,800 play the role again. 786 00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:42,480 Speaker 1: Right, And so the way that they ultimately land on 787 00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,000 the title that they land on is once he accepts 788 00:44:45,079 --> 00:44:47,880 the role, his wife says to him, I thought you 789 00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:49,840 said you were never going to do another James Bond 790 00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:52,119 movie again, and he's like, well, I feel like I 791 00:44:52,159 --> 00:44:54,400 need to do it again, and she says, well, never 792 00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:59,840 say never again, and she actually receives credit in the 793 00:45:00,079 --> 00:45:04,880 the closing credits for the title of the of the movie. 794 00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:08,719 Speaker 2: Okay, before we get to never say it ever again 795 00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:10,599 an octopusy and thank you for hanging around. 796 00:45:10,639 --> 00:45:12,199 Speaker 1: It's taking us a long time to get here. 797 00:45:12,199 --> 00:45:16,440 Speaker 2: But there's a couple of interesting tidbits in the other 798 00:45:16,519 --> 00:45:17,719 Bond movies before. 799 00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:18,280 Speaker 1: We get to this point. 800 00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:22,039 Speaker 2: Okay, so the Spy who Loved Me, you're going up 801 00:45:22,079 --> 00:45:25,599 against this guy named Stromberg that was originally supposed to 802 00:45:25,639 --> 00:45:28,320 be Blowfeld, but because of all these legal issues, they 803 00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:30,639 didn't want something to happen to Spy Love Me, so 804 00:45:30,679 --> 00:45:33,840 they just changed the specter and Blowfeld they took that out. 805 00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:37,360 So that's why Stromberg acts exactly like Blowfeld. And at 806 00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:39,599 the beginning of Four of Your Eyes Only, there is 807 00:45:40,119 --> 00:45:43,440 a scene where Bond is visiting his dead wife's grave, 808 00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:46,480 who was killed on Our Majesty's secret service. He gets 809 00:45:46,519 --> 00:45:50,199 in a helicopter and his helicopter is taken over by 810 00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:54,239 a guy in a wheelchair with a bald head and 811 00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:56,880 you know, stroking the cat. You don't never see his face, 812 00:45:57,079 --> 00:45:58,599 and he never names himself, and. 813 00:45:58,559 --> 00:46:00,000 Speaker 1: It's clearly supposed to be Blowfilm. 814 00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:02,599 Speaker 2: He's taking control of the helicopter and he's gonna kill Bond. 815 00:46:02,679 --> 00:46:05,840 So Bond escapes, takes back control of the helicopter, picks 816 00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:07,840 this guy up and he takes him and he dumps 817 00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:12,239 him down this huemongous chimney, and it's basically like we're 818 00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:14,000 killing Blowfeld double birds. 819 00:46:14,039 --> 00:46:21,400 Speaker 3: To you, Kevin McClory, we haven't really talked about what 820 00:46:21,559 --> 00:46:25,559 happened when Sean Connery stopped doing the Bond movies and 821 00:46:25,679 --> 00:46:26,840 Roger Moore took over. 822 00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:31,599 Speaker 1: There was a big backlash at the idea of having 823 00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:36,159 more takeover, and I realized we have that George Lasmbie 824 00:46:36,159 --> 00:46:38,639 thing in the middle there. Right when this happened in 825 00:46:38,679 --> 00:46:42,480 eighty three, there was kind of this big like all 826 00:46:42,559 --> 00:46:47,559 of those people who had been Roger Moore haters were like, ah, 827 00:46:47,639 --> 00:46:53,400 finally the real James Bond is back, right, Yeah, But 828 00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,599 as we find out, that movie did not do as 829 00:46:56,679 --> 00:46:57,760 well as octopusn't it. 830 00:46:58,079 --> 00:47:03,079 Speaker 4: That's right, all right, everybody, Now that you know the 831 00:47:03,119 --> 00:47:05,639 history of these two movies, join us next week when 832 00:47:05,679 --> 00:47:09,480 we will get into the comparison of Never Say Never 833 00:47:09,559 --> 00:47:12,119 Again in Octopusy. 834 00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:13,960 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us. 835 00:47:14,039 --> 00:47:15,199 Speaker 4: We will see you next week.