WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:02.759 Hi everyone. As you might know, we don't get any 2 00:00:02.839 --> 00:00:07.200 sort of funding from any wealthy benefactors, academic institutions, governments, 3 00:00:07.280 --> 00:00:11.080 or political parties. Our work is funded by you, our 4 00:00:11.119 --> 00:00:15.039 listeners and readers on Patreon. In return, our supporters on 5 00:00:15.080 --> 00:00:18.440 Patreon get access to exclusive content and benefits like ad 6 00:00:18.480 --> 00:00:23.000 free episodes, bonus podcast episodes, and two exclusive Patreon only 7 00:00:23.039 --> 00:00:27.800 podcast series, Fireside Chats and Radical Reads. So here's a 8 00:00:27.800 --> 00:00:31.160 little preview of our latest Patreon only episode. You can 9 00:00:31.280 --> 00:00:33.679 join us, help support our work, and listen to the 10 00:00:33.719 --> 00:00:37.479 full episode today at patreon dot com slash working class 11 00:00:37.520 --> 00:00:39.520 history link in the show notes. 12 00:00:44.200 --> 00:00:47.840 As we come margin Martin and the Beauty of the 13 00:00:47.960 --> 00:00:53.640 Day a million dark in kegeens one thousand mil last 14 00:00:53.640 --> 00:00:58.640 grade are branden by the beauty. His sun Sun discloses 15 00:01:00.039 --> 00:01:05.480 on the papers red and roses, Red and roses. 16 00:01:07.799 --> 00:01:10.200 You know, I was friendly with the fellow Tempts and things, 17 00:01:10.239 --> 00:01:14.040 so we just kind of would chat about this, that 18 00:01:14.159 --> 00:01:17.519 and the other, and so kind of started asking questions 19 00:01:17.560 --> 00:01:20.599 about our working conditions and pay and that sort of thing. 20 00:01:20.640 --> 00:01:23.799 And it turned out that even though we were all tempts, 21 00:01:23.920 --> 00:01:26.640 all in the same kind of job, doing the same 22 00:01:26.719 --> 00:01:30.599 level of work, kind of admin clerical work. Basically, we 23 00:01:30.599 --> 00:01:34.439 were all getting completely different race of pay. So we 24 00:01:34.599 --> 00:01:38.239 kind of thought, well, obviously, why don't we try and 25 00:01:38.239 --> 00:01:41.200 do something about this. So we all got together and said, well, 26 00:01:41.319 --> 00:01:44.799 whoever gets the most pay, let's say, well, let's talk 27 00:01:44.799 --> 00:01:47.760 to our agencies and accounts and be like, we should 28 00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:49.799 all be paid this because we were all doing the 29 00:01:49.799 --> 00:01:52.280 same work, so we should get the paid the same thing. 30 00:01:52.879 --> 00:01:56.319 So we did that, got back to our agencies and 31 00:01:56.840 --> 00:01:59.120 that was successful. So it was a really small thing, 32 00:01:59.680 --> 00:02:03.959 but it was great for us because out of the 33 00:02:04.040 --> 00:02:06.079 five or six of us, all of except one got 34 00:02:06.120 --> 00:02:08.360 to decent pay rise out of it. So it was 35 00:02:08.360 --> 00:02:12.479 like a good start. And then beyond that, while I 36 00:02:12.560 --> 00:02:15.879 was there, there was a big national public sector strike 37 00:02:15.919 --> 00:02:19.639 about pens and cuts. This was in two thousand and six, 38 00:02:21.280 --> 00:02:24.120 and so, like as I said, I couldn't do much 39 00:02:24.240 --> 00:02:26.960 to support the strike generally other than you know, I 40 00:02:27.000 --> 00:02:29.759 was saying, I wasn't going to go in. But although 41 00:02:29.759 --> 00:02:32.719 my manager, who was permanent, I was talking to her 42 00:02:32.800 --> 00:02:36.479 before the strike and she was a Unison member as well, 43 00:02:36.520 --> 00:02:38.080 But as we were talking about it, she was saying, oh, 44 00:02:38.080 --> 00:02:40.039 I don't think I'm allowed to strike because I'm a manager, 45 00:02:40.960 --> 00:02:44.599 So I had to be like, I mean a I mean, okay, 46 00:02:44.680 --> 00:02:46.439 you're normally a manager, but you only manage me. 47 00:02:49.159 --> 00:02:53.240 You know, let's let's not get too big for your boots, mate, Exactly. 48 00:02:53.280 --> 00:02:55.719 It's like you're not the queen or something like maybe 49 00:02:55.759 --> 00:02:58.479 the queen, maybe she's not supposed to go on strike. 50 00:02:58.520 --> 00:03:00.960 But also even if you are a manager, like, yeah, 51 00:03:01.120 --> 00:03:02.759 what do you think this is? Like, yeah, you can 52 00:03:02.840 --> 00:03:05.479 go on strike, that's fine. And so again, like I 53 00:03:05.520 --> 00:03:07.680 tried to talk to my fellow tempts about it, because 54 00:03:07.719 --> 00:03:11.639 when the talk of the strike started, the building I 55 00:03:11.680 --> 00:03:13.759 was in wasn't a particularly the union wasn't strong in 56 00:03:13.759 --> 00:03:16.199 that building, as you can probably get, you know, from 57 00:03:16.199 --> 00:03:18.120 the manager not knowing that they could, and the only 58 00:03:18.599 --> 00:03:21.879 union rep there not really being interested in building a 59 00:03:21.960 --> 00:03:24.759 union at work, but being more interested in building a 60 00:03:24.919 --> 00:03:27.599 left wing political party outside of work, you can say. 61 00:03:28.360 --> 00:03:31.840 So the other temps kind of were talking about the 62 00:03:31.879 --> 00:03:35.360 strike in a bit like you know, I think you've 63 00:03:35.360 --> 00:03:39.000 spoken about them before about media images of what unions 64 00:03:39.000 --> 00:03:42.520 are like, thinking it would be kind of like images 65 00:03:42.560 --> 00:03:45.120 of the nineteen seventies, these people trying to stop you 66 00:03:45.159 --> 00:03:48.000 at the picket line and shout mean things at you 67 00:03:48.080 --> 00:03:50.000 as you go in. So they were kind of talking 68 00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:52.840 about how they wouldn't care about a picket line. They 69 00:03:52.879 --> 00:03:54.879 would come, you know, they would defy it, as if 70 00:03:54.879 --> 00:03:57.199 that was like the rebellious thing to do would be 71 00:03:57.240 --> 00:04:00.479 to defy a picket line. So you know, I'd to 72 00:04:00.680 --> 00:04:04.159 talk to him about that and be like like really no, 73 00:04:04.520 --> 00:04:08.719 like you know, I mean, also, all of the tempts 74 00:04:09.439 --> 00:04:13.520 wanted permanent jobs in this place. They all wanted because 75 00:04:13.919 --> 00:04:16.079 you know, we were doing the same work as permanent 76 00:04:16.120 --> 00:04:22.079 people on less than half the money, with no holiday pay, 77 00:04:22.199 --> 00:04:24.759 no sick pay, no pension or any of that. So 78 00:04:24.800 --> 00:04:28.079 it's like, we all want one of these jobs in 79 00:04:28.120 --> 00:04:32.439 the future. So if their pension is better, that means 80 00:04:32.600 --> 00:04:35.480 that our pension will be better when we get one. 81 00:04:35.920 --> 00:04:38.600 So we should try and help them improve their conditions. 82 00:04:38.879 --> 00:04:40.560 And also like, if you actually want to be like 83 00:04:40.600 --> 00:04:43.759 rebellious and define anyone, then you should be defined the 84 00:04:43.800 --> 00:04:46.279 government and the employers. 85 00:04:46.360 --> 00:04:49.000 Yeah, exactly, you should be defy your employer and defy 86 00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:51.519 the government rather than your workmate. 87 00:04:52.879 --> 00:04:58.439 So yeah, I mean on the day when when the 88 00:04:58.439 --> 00:05:02.240 strike actually happened, I didn't go I went to join 89 00:05:02.279 --> 00:05:04.879 picket lines, but not at my building because I was 90 00:05:04.920 --> 00:05:08.680 a temp and I I lost a temptal previously for 91 00:05:08.720 --> 00:05:10.279 not crossing a picket line, so I went to a 92 00:05:10.279 --> 00:05:14.040 different building. So on the day, I don't actually know 93 00:05:14.120 --> 00:05:17.240 what happened with the other temps that went in, and 94 00:05:17.240 --> 00:05:21.079 also is quite a long time ago, but I would 95 00:05:21.079 --> 00:05:23.600 be hopeful that some of them maybe didn't. 96 00:05:23.319 --> 00:05:26.079 Go or either that or they're all like, I know 97 00:05:26.160 --> 00:05:28.959 you're ship about John. I'm not going to let him 98 00:05:29.000 --> 00:05:32.800 bully me into not crossing the picket line, but yeah, 99 00:05:33.000 --> 00:05:33.439 like you. 100 00:05:33.399 --> 00:05:35.879 Know, it's so it's not the most inspiring ending. Maybe 101 00:05:35.879 --> 00:05:38.079 it would be better to make something up and be like, yes, 102 00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:40.879 and they flipped a police car outside the office and 103 00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:41.519 set it on fire. 104 00:05:41.759 --> 00:05:42.000 Yeah. 105 00:05:44.079 --> 00:05:46.040 Yeah. And then and then they carried me on their 106 00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:50.680 shoulders and they went yes, John, Yeah. 107 00:05:50.560 --> 00:05:53.879 Like it was like that scene in June with Timothy Shabladoo. 108 00:05:58.759 --> 00:06:02.000 Also, sorry, just I wouldn't because I didn't know there 109 00:06:02.079 --> 00:06:04.759 was the other story that you you just you mentioned 110 00:06:04.800 --> 00:06:06.920 that I didn't actually ever know about. But are you 111 00:06:06.959 --> 00:06:09.920 telling me that at a previous job that you had, 112 00:06:09.959 --> 00:06:12.920 there was a strike and you were a temp and 113 00:06:12.959 --> 00:06:17.319 you didn't cross the picket line, and you just stood 114 00:06:17.360 --> 00:06:20.959 outside the workplace, like you know, on the picket line 115 00:06:22.040 --> 00:06:24.160 with the with the workers there. And then whatppened Like 116 00:06:24.439 --> 00:06:26.720 your employer just stuck their head out the window and 117 00:06:26.800 --> 00:06:30.639 was like that's John, I'm getting rid of that guy. 118 00:06:33.040 --> 00:06:34.959 I mean basically, yeah, I was working at I was 119 00:06:34.959 --> 00:06:39.519 working as a temp at this Yeah, I was working 120 00:06:39.560 --> 00:06:43.680 as a temp in London at another office, and the 121 00:06:43.800 --> 00:06:46.839 union there started a wave of rolling strikes for like 122 00:06:46.959 --> 00:06:54.240 more maternity pay and like half day strikes once a week, 123 00:06:55.720 --> 00:06:59.120 and I kind of told my colleagues and my team 124 00:06:59.199 --> 00:07:01.439 that like I wouldn't sort of cross a picket line, 125 00:07:01.480 --> 00:07:03.920 and they were kind of like, I mean, yeah, like 126 00:07:03.959 --> 00:07:08.839 maybe you should do so you don't get fired. But 127 00:07:08.959 --> 00:07:11.879 I did. But I went and I joined the picket line. 128 00:07:11.920 --> 00:07:17.839 And then and then I got fired, although like weirdly, 129 00:07:18.920 --> 00:07:22.319 like there was so basically like my immediate team and 130 00:07:22.560 --> 00:07:26.079 the manager my I had kind of two supervisors. They 131 00:07:26.279 --> 00:07:28.879 then went and complained to their like head of department 132 00:07:29.600 --> 00:07:31.519 and said because they were both joining the strike, and 133 00:07:31.519 --> 00:07:33.600 they went and complained, and so then they got me 134 00:07:33.680 --> 00:07:38.439 like reinstated for like three days or something. And then 135 00:07:38.480 --> 00:07:40.560 like at the end of the week, They're like, okay, 136 00:07:40.680 --> 00:07:43.240 and now your contractors come to an end, you know, 137 00:07:43.319 --> 00:07:44.959 So it seemed like you're not being fired for not 138 00:07:44.959 --> 00:07:47.240 crossing a picket line this time, just your contract to 139 00:07:47.240 --> 00:07:50.079 come to an end. But it's like, I mean, I 140 00:07:50.079 --> 00:07:51.680 hadn't been told my contract was coming to an end, 141 00:07:51.720 --> 00:07:53.519 so I basically think they fired me again, like they 142 00:07:53.560 --> 00:07:55.720 just waited. But you know, I mean it was only 143 00:07:55.759 --> 00:07:56.279 a temp job. 144 00:07:56.360 --> 00:07:58.920 Like, so you were fired twice for not crossing a 145 00:07:58.920 --> 00:08:00.199 picket line. 146 00:08:02.360 --> 00:08:05.040 Exactly, I'm going. 147 00:08:04.959 --> 00:08:08.240 To rehire him, just like can fire him again, that 148 00:08:08.399 --> 00:08:09.399 red son of a bitch. 149 00:08:11.480 --> 00:08:14.120 Yeah, you know, you can't get rid of me firing 150 00:08:14.160 --> 00:08:15.560 me just on, yeah. 151 00:08:15.199 --> 00:08:27.480 Exactly, fire me one me, no, no, the other way around, fire. 152 00:08:24.279 --> 00:08:26.720 Me twice, yeah okay. Yeah. 153 00:08:26.800 --> 00:08:30.600 But anyway, so like at some point you were taken 154 00:08:30.639 --> 00:08:34.720 on permanently and so yeah, so what what was that like? 155 00:08:35.519 --> 00:08:36.519 And how did that? 156 00:08:37.879 --> 00:08:41.320 It was amazing? I got I got hired, and I'm like, right, 157 00:08:41.360 --> 00:08:44.799 I'm getting ill. All the illnesses I've been putting off 158 00:08:44.840 --> 00:08:47.840 for like seven six, seven, eight years or whatever, I'm 159 00:08:47.879 --> 00:08:49.200 having all those illnesses now. 160 00:08:49.399 --> 00:08:49.679 Yeah. 161 00:08:49.759 --> 00:08:52.879 Yeah. Licking door knobs for the Italian listeners. I'd open 162 00:08:52.879 --> 00:08:55.200 the window a crack when I'm in the car, you know, 163 00:08:56.279 --> 00:08:57.440 put the air conditioning on. 164 00:08:57.840 --> 00:08:58.039 Yeah. 165 00:08:58.159 --> 00:08:59.919 Yeah, oh man, that's the niche joke. 166 00:09:00.399 --> 00:09:03.440 I'm sure how many Italian listeners we had. Yeah, that's 167 00:09:03.519 --> 00:09:04.000 too niche. 168 00:09:05.120 --> 00:09:07.879 But yeah, So how how did that try to change 169 00:09:07.879 --> 00:09:12.000 your organizing and how did your organizing then sort of 170 00:09:12.039 --> 00:09:16.200 fit into the dynamics the demographics of your new workplace. 171 00:09:16.759 --> 00:09:21.960 Yeah, so the place I was working, Yeah, basically it 172 00:09:22.000 --> 00:09:25.080 was a team of about eighty people. I was like 173 00:09:25.159 --> 00:09:28.799 the youngest person in the office on my first day 174 00:09:29.000 --> 00:09:31.279 when I arrived, Like because the office, the team, they 175 00:09:31.279 --> 00:09:33.799 work with young people, they work with clients. And I 176 00:09:33.960 --> 00:09:37.039 got there and then people spoke to me afterwards and 177 00:09:37.080 --> 00:09:38.840 they said when I arrived, they thought I was one 178 00:09:38.840 --> 00:09:41.879 of the clients, Like they thought I was one of 179 00:09:41.879 --> 00:09:44.720 the young people who maysaged to turn my life around 180 00:09:44.799 --> 00:09:49.720 kind of thing, you know. So also, you know, I 181 00:09:49.840 --> 00:09:51.720 was the youngest in the office. Also I looked like 182 00:09:51.759 --> 00:09:56.600 I was twelve, So I did not start organizing immediately. 183 00:09:57.480 --> 00:09:59.279 And also I was on probation for the first like 184 00:09:59.320 --> 00:10:02.799 six months, so I kind of kept my head down 185 00:10:02.799 --> 00:10:05.960 and made sure that I did my job what especially 186 00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:09.679 as like I'm like not very good at being punctual. 187 00:10:10.879 --> 00:10:12.960 Like I was about forty five minutes late on my 188 00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:17.120 first day and pretty much after that, I was pretty 189 00:10:17.200 --> 00:10:19.519 much never on time a single day for the whole 190 00:10:19.519 --> 00:10:22.480 rest of my career. I'm not a morning person. 191 00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:28.240 I feel like you are exactly the kind of like 192 00:10:28.600 --> 00:10:31.639 the kind of figure that the right wing press talks 193 00:10:31.679 --> 00:10:36.120 about when they talk about public sector workers turning up late, 194 00:10:36.639 --> 00:10:40.840 you know, protected by union barons. Who are you know 195 00:10:40.879 --> 00:10:45.039 you can't sack them because yeah, they're protected by the union. 196 00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:48.440 But so you spent the first six months trying to 197 00:10:48.440 --> 00:10:52.519 grow facial hair so that your your your workmates wouldn't 198 00:10:52.559 --> 00:10:55.480 think that you were a young person. 199 00:10:55.799 --> 00:10:58.720 Yeah, a young sort of client. And so I did. 200 00:10:58.840 --> 00:11:01.159 I joined the union. Well, I was already in the 201 00:11:01.240 --> 00:11:04.679 union as a temp, but as a as an employee 202 00:11:04.679 --> 00:11:07.919 at least got time off to go to union meetings. 203 00:11:08.799 --> 00:11:10.799 I mean there was only like big branch meetings, so 204 00:11:10.799 --> 00:11:12.799 I think it was only like one or two a year, 205 00:11:13.799 --> 00:11:16.399 But that was exciting to go to an actual kind 206 00:11:16.440 --> 00:11:20.120 of like union meeting with a bunch of other workers there. 207 00:11:20.159 --> 00:11:23.559 It was really exciting. The first time that I went. 208 00:11:24.960 --> 00:11:29.159 Was it because I remember the first maybe also my 209 00:11:29.759 --> 00:11:32.279 first union branch meeting that I went to, and I 210 00:11:32.360 --> 00:11:34.519 remember similar to a feeling of being like, oh, this 211 00:11:34.559 --> 00:11:37.960 is going to be really exciting, but my union branch 212 00:11:38.080 --> 00:11:40.000 was a little bit an emic and there wasn't all 213 00:11:40.039 --> 00:11:46.080 that much happening there. And also that feeling of so 214 00:11:46.279 --> 00:11:49.840 much of the branch activity not having to do with 215 00:11:49.919 --> 00:11:52.679 the workplace, you know, that was what I really kind 216 00:11:52.679 --> 00:11:55.039 of what really hit me, and it took me a 217 00:11:55.039 --> 00:11:57.240 long time to kind of to get my head around it, 218 00:11:57.279 --> 00:12:01.120 even at first that like, you know, I was going 219 00:12:01.159 --> 00:12:04.320 to like branch meetings, you know, because I was I 220 00:12:04.399 --> 00:12:08.000 was the shop steward at my workplace. But there was 221 00:12:08.039 --> 00:12:11.360 just this disconnect from between what was going on in 222 00:12:11.360 --> 00:12:13.440 my workplace and what was going on in my branch. 223 00:12:13.840 --> 00:12:17.480 And I remember kind of being like, you know, am 224 00:12:17.519 --> 00:12:19.679 I just getting an afternoon off work here? You know 225 00:12:19.720 --> 00:12:22.960 what I mean? That was, yeah, but your your branch 226 00:12:23.000 --> 00:12:24.240 meetings were different. 227 00:12:24.559 --> 00:12:26.960 Well, it was an AGM, so it was like an 228 00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:30.440 all members meeting, right, and there were some local issue 229 00:12:30.679 --> 00:12:33.480 at the time, and there was like a national pay thing, 230 00:12:34.440 --> 00:12:36.840 so there were like one hundred odd people there. That 231 00:12:36.960 --> 00:12:38.879 was just kind of exciting to see, you know, because 232 00:12:39.240 --> 00:12:41.720 before I'd only ever known like one other union person 233 00:12:42.360 --> 00:12:45.039 in the building, and yeah, and here. 234 00:12:44.840 --> 00:12:47.759 There was I tried to get to hand out leaflets. 235 00:12:47.120 --> 00:12:50.360 Exactly and sell papers, so and here there was like 236 00:12:50.360 --> 00:12:54.200 one hundred and the talk was about stuff at work primarily, 237 00:12:54.919 --> 00:12:57.399 So yeah, it was quite like exciting. I mean. Also 238 00:12:57.480 --> 00:13:01.320 another thing is having this like a job was a 239 00:13:01.480 --> 00:13:03.519 very big thing for me personally because I had been 240 00:13:03.559 --> 00:13:05.399 tendinged for so long with no sick pay and stuff, 241 00:13:05.399 --> 00:13:07.679 and one of my temp jobs, I got injured and 242 00:13:07.720 --> 00:13:09.399 had to go to the hospital and was off work 243 00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:11.480 for like months with no sick pay, and it was 244 00:13:11.559 --> 00:13:14.039 really bad. So I really wanted to make sure I 245 00:13:14.080 --> 00:13:17.519 didn't lose the job. So I was, I mean, other 246 00:13:17.600 --> 00:13:20.559 than being timely, which is like, you know, I'll I'll 247 00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:24.080 do anything for love, but I won't do that kind 248 00:13:24.120 --> 00:13:26.200 of kind of thing, you know. You know, I was 249 00:13:26.240 --> 00:13:29.440 being like good other than that, And then after a while, 250 00:13:29.440 --> 00:13:32.399 basically my strategy was, well, I'll do this, I'll be 251 00:13:32.480 --> 00:13:34.120 late all the time, but then if it ever comes up, 252 00:13:34.159 --> 00:13:35.279 I'll just be like, oh I thought I was on 253 00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:42.120 flexible stars. You know. That was my sort of strategyfe crime. Yeah, 254 00:13:42.279 --> 00:13:44.720 so I wanted to be very careful not to lose it. 255 00:13:44.919 --> 00:13:46.960 And also, yeah, like I said, I was the youngest 256 00:13:47.000 --> 00:13:51.600 person there, you know, young white bloke, and most of 257 00:13:51.600 --> 00:13:54.759 the people in my team were It was mostly women, 258 00:13:54.759 --> 00:13:59.720 mostly middle age, mostly parents, and about fifty percent people 259 00:13:59.759 --> 00:14:02.960 have mostly most of the people of color being black. 260 00:14:03.840 --> 00:14:07.399 So I wasn't like representative of the team as a whole. 261 00:14:07.480 --> 00:14:09.519 They were all a lot older than me and more 262 00:14:09.559 --> 00:14:13.879 experienced and had more responsibility in life and that kind 263 00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:16.200 of thing. So, you know, it's not the kind of 264 00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:19.919 place where you can go in and then just start 265 00:14:20.120 --> 00:14:22.759 telling people what to do and be like, you know, 266 00:14:23.279 --> 00:14:25.960 like quote, well I don't like about some left you know, 267 00:14:26.039 --> 00:14:28.480 is when they talk about organizing people, you know, going 268 00:14:28.519 --> 00:14:30.720 and organized, like you're kind of lining up your sort 269 00:14:30.759 --> 00:14:34.440 of soldiers and telling them what to do whatever. You know, 270 00:14:34.480 --> 00:14:36.919 you've got to pay your dues. So yeah, I was 271 00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:40.000 just sort of putting my head down, do my job, 272 00:14:40.120 --> 00:14:43.399 basically learning as much as you can, getting to know 273 00:14:43.480 --> 00:14:47.600 everyone and just talking and listening more, just listening to people, 274 00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:52.639 you know, understanding the connections between different people, Understanding like 275 00:14:53.279 --> 00:14:57.440 where power lies in the organization, and outside the connections 276 00:14:57.480 --> 00:15:00.960 between the team and other areas what managers to people like, 277 00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:03.600 what managers to people not like who are kind of 278 00:15:03.639 --> 00:15:09.480 influential employees and who are people that keep themselves themselves 279 00:15:09.559 --> 00:15:13.720 and also go in team meetings see like which people 280 00:15:13.840 --> 00:15:16.919 are like ask challenging questions in team meetings and things 281 00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:19.200 like that, and just kind of making notes and just 282 00:15:19.240 --> 00:15:22.320 hearing things about gripes and what are the kind of 283 00:15:22.320 --> 00:15:24.840 things people are complaining about. And at the same time, 284 00:15:25.120 --> 00:15:28.200 as a worker, trying to make yourself indispensable, like doing 285 00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:31.080 stuff to help out your colleagues so that you know, 286 00:15:31.120 --> 00:15:34.600 you become popular in the office, but also kind of 287 00:15:34.720 --> 00:15:36.480 trying to get as much knowledge as you can to 288 00:15:36.519 --> 00:15:40.440 make yourself kind of indispensable, which is good for any 289 00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:43.320 worker anyway, because that's kind of what you want to 290 00:15:43.320 --> 00:15:47.120 not get canned, is to make yourself indispensable and try 291 00:15:47.159 --> 00:15:51.639 and monopolize all kinds of information. So that's kind of 292 00:15:51.639 --> 00:15:53.840 what I was doing. And the team I was in 293 00:15:54.080 --> 00:15:57.000 was quite it was quite a horrible atmosphere a lot 294 00:15:57.000 --> 00:16:00.240 of the time because the head of our department was 295 00:16:00.279 --> 00:16:06.639 a real bully. She was horrible and nobody liked her. 296 00:16:07.879 --> 00:16:10.480 Like as an example of how she was, like once 297 00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:13.360 she wanted to have a go at me for something 298 00:16:13.360 --> 00:16:15.559 which was nothing to do with me, but she literally 299 00:16:15.720 --> 00:16:20.600 stood next to me, stamped her feet and screamed, you know, 300 00:16:20.679 --> 00:16:25.080 that kind of childish behavior. And also people in the 301 00:16:25.080 --> 00:16:29.440 team would just like disappear, so that people we work 302 00:16:29.480 --> 00:16:30.840 with for a long time and then they would just 303 00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:37.399 never be seen again because they'd been basically suspended secretly 304 00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:40.000 and then fired kind of in secrets. So there was 305 00:16:40.039 --> 00:16:42.519 a lot of stuff people were unhappy with. And then 306 00:16:42.600 --> 00:16:45.039 I think it was probably after like a year and 307 00:16:45.080 --> 00:16:50.440 a half of being there that there was like a 308 00:16:50.559 --> 00:16:53.960 really key sort of incident in the team that everyone 309 00:16:54.039 --> 00:16:59.039 was totally up in arms about, and that's when it 310 00:16:59.159 --> 00:17:03.120 sort of changed things. So basically, the person I worked 311 00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:07.480 with most closely was a woman who had been there, 312 00:17:07.680 --> 00:17:11.319 like she'd been in the department ever since it was founded. 313 00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:13.960 She'd been there over thirty years, and she was kind 314 00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:16.440 of like she was an admin clerical worker like me. 315 00:17:17.319 --> 00:17:20.000 She kind of did my onboarding, and she was really 316 00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:21.920 well respected and liked by everyone in the team. She 317 00:17:21.960 --> 00:17:24.039 was kind of like the Muma of the office, is 318 00:17:24.079 --> 00:17:26.640 how people thought of her and how she thought of herself, 319 00:17:27.400 --> 00:17:34.079 and one day the department head had her demoted from 320 00:17:34.119 --> 00:17:39.799 her general job as a kind of office manager, you know, administrator, 321 00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:45.039 to be her PA, which was a lower ranked job 322 00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:48.720 in the council. Jobs have a job ranking system, so 323 00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:52.200 it was a lower ranked job. And she even like 324 00:17:53.480 --> 00:17:57.119 made this announcement in a team meeting because I think 325 00:17:57.119 --> 00:17:59.799 at the same time also, you know, someone was fired, 326 00:17:59.799 --> 00:18:02.599 someone someone was left, so she even made this announcement 327 00:18:02.680 --> 00:18:04.960 being like, well, bad news, like this person has left, 328 00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:06.920 this person has gone, because I don't say that this 329 00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:09.880 person who left, but in positive news for the team, 330 00:18:09.920 --> 00:18:15.440 I've got a PA. And which is just so tone 331 00:18:15.480 --> 00:18:17.799 deaf because the woman this happened to like getting demotive 332 00:18:17.799 --> 00:18:19.920 because I tried to, you know, talk to her about 333 00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:24.240 opposing it because in a legal and contractual sense, it's 334 00:18:24.279 --> 00:18:26.319 not something they could actually do. And after it became 335 00:18:26.359 --> 00:18:28.960 a union rep. You know, this happened to various people, 336 00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:31.480 and I was able to stop it immediately just by 337 00:18:31.480 --> 00:18:35.599 writing an email because they can't actually do that. But 338 00:18:36.359 --> 00:18:38.200 she was not a member of Unison. She was a 339 00:18:38.200 --> 00:18:42.359 member of the GMB, which in some places in the 340 00:18:42.440 --> 00:18:46.319 UK is a good union, especially amongst manual grades. But 341 00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:52.519 the way the GMB functioned in my counsel was it 342 00:18:52.599 --> 00:18:56.240 was mostly a union for people to join who wanted 343 00:18:56.279 --> 00:18:58.519 individual protection to work, but didn't want to have to 344 00:18:58.559 --> 00:19:02.720 take part in Unison stride because Unison regularly took strikes 345 00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:06.119 for things like pay and against pension cuts, whereas GMB didn't. 346 00:19:06.440 --> 00:19:08.400 So it was a way they could feel like they 347 00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:12.240 got individual protection without having to take pine strikes. And 348 00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:13.720 that was the union she was part of, and they 349 00:19:13.759 --> 00:19:17.599 didn't do anything to give her any individual protection. And 350 00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:20.000 it was just so sad because she was just like 351 00:19:20.079 --> 00:19:21.880 she'd but she didn't even want to fight it because 352 00:19:21.920 --> 00:19:26.039 she just felt so totally demoralized by it. She was 353 00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:27.799 totally like broken by the whole that she was just 354 00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:31.240 devastated really, and everyone was really upset, and especially with 355 00:19:31.279 --> 00:19:33.359 this other person who'd been fired at the same time. 356 00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:37.599 There was so much and I kind of at this point, 357 00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:38.920 you know, it had been there a year and a half, 358 00:19:38.960 --> 00:19:41.079 so I started to kind of be vocal about this 359 00:19:41.160 --> 00:19:45.200 sort of thing and ask, like ask really annoying difficult 360 00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:49.759 questions to cause problems for management, just because I don't 361 00:19:49.759 --> 00:19:52.640 know if you know this about me, but I'm kind 362 00:19:52.680 --> 00:19:53.519 of her dick. 363 00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:58.559 Yeah I've noticed yeah, yeah, yeah. 364 00:19:57.680 --> 00:19:59.359 A lot of the time. And I just quite liked 365 00:19:59.480 --> 00:20:03.160 just being dick, and so that's what I was kind 366 00:20:03.160 --> 00:20:05.000 of doing to management, but also in a way that 367 00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:08.240 they can't really get mad by just yeah, asking kind 368 00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:12.839 of difficult questions that will cause them problems. 369 00:20:13.440 --> 00:20:15.440 Do you think you could give me an example of 370 00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:18.240 one of these dickish questions that you used to ask. 371 00:20:20.720 --> 00:20:25.319 Well, yeah, okay, sure. He Like one example was our 372 00:20:25.559 --> 00:20:30.440 like our department head. Someone asked her in this team meeting, 373 00:20:31.079 --> 00:20:33.559 why is this person no longer with this you know, 374 00:20:33.599 --> 00:20:37.079 who'd basically been fired, And she said, well, it's not 375 00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:40.480 appropriate to comment on staffing matters and team meetings. So 376 00:20:41.640 --> 00:20:43.960 I just put my hand up and then I was like, so, 377 00:20:44.680 --> 00:20:46.720 if you said it's not appropriate to talk about staffing 378 00:20:46.720 --> 00:20:49.359 matters in team meetings, then why was the whole section 379 00:20:49.400 --> 00:20:51.440 before this you talking about staffing matters when you were 380 00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:53.759 talking about this new member that's coming in and this 381 00:20:53.799 --> 00:20:56.160 person who's leaving, you know, a different member of staff. 382 00:20:57.279 --> 00:21:00.759 So you know that ditch question. 383 00:21:01.680 --> 00:21:03.640 But I can imagine that she would have she would 384 00:21:03.680 --> 00:21:05.119 have been sitting there fuming at you. 385 00:21:06.039 --> 00:21:08.440 Yeah, exactly. It was obviously, you know, it's awsome. I mean, 386 00:21:08.440 --> 00:21:10.599 it was also a dickish question because you can't give 387 00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:14.000 confidential staff information in a meeting, you know, but everyone 388 00:21:14.039 --> 00:21:20.279 based only yeah that's what she said. So yeah, yeah, 389 00:21:20.279 --> 00:21:23.039 people sort of snickered. And then you know, some people 390 00:21:23.079 --> 00:21:24.519 came and spoke to me afterwards, and that was a 391 00:21:24.519 --> 00:21:27.759 good opportunity to have some conversations and meet people who 392 00:21:27.839 --> 00:21:31.119 also have issues with management and like challenging them. So 393 00:21:31.880 --> 00:21:33.720 a couple of people came to me after it and 394 00:21:33.799 --> 00:21:35.599 they were like, well, why don't you become like a 395 00:21:35.680 --> 00:21:38.920 union rep for the team? And one of the people 396 00:21:39.240 --> 00:21:42.200 that came to me was like a mid fifties black 397 00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:44.200 woman who was one of the people that came, and 398 00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:46.799 I kind of said, well, I knew that you could 399 00:21:46.839 --> 00:21:50.839 become a shop steward on a job share basis, So 400 00:21:50.920 --> 00:21:52.640 I kind of say, well, it's too much for me 401 00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:55.200