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Speaker 1: At a book.

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Dogmanencounters dot com Forward Slash Podcast. Tonight's guest is Kevin Binach. Kevin,

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welcome to the show.

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Speaker 1: Well, thank you, Vick for the astounding honor to be

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here with you and everyone tonight.

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Speaker 2: Well, the honor is all mine. We really appreciate your time. Kevin,

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please give us a brief bio on yourself.

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Speaker 1: Well, I am a father of six children. I've been

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married for twenty years to a wonderful wife that has

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taken care of a lot of stuff. I live in Sharon, Wyoming,

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which is kind of a nestled against the backdrops of

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the big worn mountains.

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Speaker 2: That sounds like a beautiful place. It really does.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it has a lot of history to it. But yeah,

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when I'm not taking care of elderly residents, I also

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am I'm kind of halfway retired paranormal investigators. So that's

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been keeping me busy for off and on throughout the years.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm sure it has been. You produce a paranormal

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theme podcast, Kevin, is your dog me an encounter that

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we're going to talk about tonight. The reason why you

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created it.

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, technically that whole encounter sparred a whole what

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if situation, But yeah, it's it's the main reason I

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like to try to reach out to people and figure

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out on the ends and outs of these type of things.

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure how much you thought about it, but

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you were definitely affected by your encounter, compromised in certain ways,

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and by you creating that pure normal theme podcast. I

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think that's probably helped you, has it.

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Speaker 1: Yes and no, To be honest with you, When the

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encounter happened, it became a core memory. And you know,

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I'm the type of guy that you know, I could

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feel comfortable in a cemetery or you know, an advanted place,

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or you know, somewhere with really bad historical factors to it.

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But there was just something about that whole situation that

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just kind of shook me to the core and kind

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of stayed with me for all these years.

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Speaker 2: See, that's a funny thing about dog being encounters. You

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take this person over here, who before they have the encounter,

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you would think that, Okay, if they have an encounter,

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they're gonna just deal with it so well. But this

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person over here with those qualities doesn't deal with it

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all that well. But this person over here, who you

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think would fall apart after having an encounter, even a

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bad one, they don't. You never really know. It's just

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one of those things. You never know how an experience

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like that is going to affect you until it happens

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to you. But you are doing well, So as long

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as we can say that, then you know, let's play

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the glad game. Please tell us about your podcast.

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Speaker 1: Well, I am a host of a podcast called Nature's Darkest.

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It's a podcast dealing with paranormal events, activities, strange weather events,

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missing people. It's just kind of all over the place.

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Speaker 2: One of the things that comes along with doing a

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podcast like that, a paranormal podcast where you talk about

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ghosts and demons and other haunted areas, things like that

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that most people who listen to them don't even think about,

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is sometimes there's blowback that comes along with doing that.

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I mean sometimes if you speak with hosts who post

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shows like that, behind the scenes, they'll tell you about

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strange things that happen to them while they're hosting shows.

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Most of them don't seem to come forward and talk

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about that sort of thing, but it definitely does happen.

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As you've been hosting episodes of your show, has anything strange.

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Speaker 1: Happened, Well, not really. It's just mainly just me talking

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about my experiences and dealing with the paranormal. Every once

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in a while I'll do like an interview, but no,

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nothing like that has really affected the podcast as anything else.

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I mean, it's just just coming about the topics. Really,

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we're still trying to figure out our voice and our

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format and stuff, and podcasts came a long way, but

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it's not there yet.

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Speaker 2: Well, it takes time and everyone listening. If you want

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to check out Kevin's podcast, of course, I'm going to

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post a link to it in the description for tonight's show.

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That'll make it really easy to find. But back on

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what we're talking about here, Yeah, a perfect example Art Bell.

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He talked about that how he would be hosting episodes

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of his show and things on the desk would start

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moving around. So that's a perfect example of what I'm

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talking about. Now. One thing I don't understand Kevin is,

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like I said, you were compromised and you still are compromised.

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By your dog mean encounter. But you still waited about

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three months to contact me after you found out about me.

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Why'd you wait?

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Speaker 1: Well, first, I'm the type of person that likes to

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do the research. When I was initially looking to reach

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out to people, it was I just used Google and

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typed in dog man books or media and stuff like that,

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and that's where I came across you, and I started

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listening to your wonderful podcast. And the reason I waited

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so long is because I wanted to hear what other

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people had to say about their encounters and I kind

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of had to compare it. And then one night, at

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three o'clock in the morning, I'm like, you know, I

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just need to get a hold of this guy because

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it's like, obviously the platform that he has, he has

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a vast knowledge about these things. So sorry, I'm a

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little nervous.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, don't feel bad about that. I've had people

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come on the show to have their own podcasts, just

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like you, people who have had their podcasts for years

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and years, and they get so nervous you can almost

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hear them shake. So it's not unprecedented. It's not just

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you now, Kevin, you still can't head into the woods

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by yourself all years later. Do you think you're ever

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going to be able to head into the woods again

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by yourself? Someday?

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Speaker 1: I would like to. I would really would appreciate just

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being out there camping with my family and not being

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on edge. I you know, it's it's a slow, steady process,

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but it's I'm beginning to pretty much heal from that experience.

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Speaker 2: Well, as long as you can say that, that's a

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good thing. Like we talked about the other day, baby steps,

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don't rush it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, now that you mentioned it. It was like just

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the other night or a couple of days ago, there

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was northern whites that was reported over at Sheridan. So

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I kind of took my family out to the snowboll

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Bill Turnouts, which is just kind of at the base

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of the big Warre Mountains on the south side of Sheridan,

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and it was it was actually nice, you know, to

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be able to look up at the night sky and

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see all the stars and be a part of eature again.

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It felt nice.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's really good. I'm glad you're able to do

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that now. Living where you do by the Big Horns,

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is it mostly open plains or do you have a

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lot of forests around.

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Speaker 1: What does it look like, Well, a lot of prairies,

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a lot of foothills. But we are at the base

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of the mountains. There are quite a bit of forests

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even in here in town and Sheridan, but there's a

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lot more the closer you get to the Big Horn Mountains.

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It's usually green for the most part, except for like

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in August, where it's all dried out. But it's beautiful

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country there really is.

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Speaker 2: Oh, it definitely sounds like it, all right, Kevin, Please

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tell us about your experiences. Now give us a ver

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last detail that comes to mind.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Well, my first encounter happened. I'm not really sure

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on the dates, but it was between two thousand and

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one and two thousand and three. Because of the nature

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of my how I make an income, I usually work

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like nights. But this particular night, I got off about

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I would assume about eleven, and I was going out

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of Sheridan on Big Horn Avenue, which is a road

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that goes south. And as I was going south on

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Big Horn Avenue, I saw this object come across the road.

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So I slowed down because I didn't want to hit it.

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Because first you know, I was thinking maybe it was

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a deer, but then I turned my brights on and

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come to find it wasn't a deer. What I saw

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was it was about from six to seven feet all.

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When I first sawt, it was hunched over on all fours.

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Speaker 3: The fur or hair was completely all white. The back

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part of its legs were more like dog legs, but

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the torso and the forearms and the pies and the

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shoulder area was was It looked like a human.

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Speaker 1: It was a humanoid. When I started looking at it

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even more, it had really long forearms. I mean, these

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things were unnaturally long. It had had a husky tail,

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you know how the husky tail kind of curves up

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and kind of has the hair. This thing was white.

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I mean it was literally white. It was muscular, but

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it wasn't like like a male muscular. The head which

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really took me off because while I was staring at this,

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it actually stood up and turned its torso towards me

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so I could like really get a good look at it.

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The ears on this was extremely long. They were kind

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of between the top and the mid It like moved

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its sears like on how a wolf or a dog would.

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But the muzzle on this thing was it was pretty

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it was pretty long. It didn't like smarl or anything

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at me, but it definitely looked at me and like

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and gave me the look like I was sitting in

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my car, like I said, and this thing just looked

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at me and like, don't you come any closer? And

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I'm just looking at this thing. And then it just

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kind of like realized I wasn't no threat, and then

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it went back onto all fours. But it jumped from

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the middle of this freeway to the shoulder, and then

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from the shoulder it jumped over a four foot barbar

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fence and ran into the field. There's houses now in

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the field, but at this time it was it was

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kind of connected to the airport, so there was a

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lot of vass very still available. And when it started

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running off into the field, it was like it launched

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itself from its forearms and then the back end legs

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kind of came underneath of it and pushed off. But

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this thing was quick. It disappeared into the darkness really quick,

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evening considering it was white. But I was just kind

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of left there, you know, kind of stunted because it's like,

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what did I just see. And so I continued driving

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out to my friends's house and she looked at me

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at the time and she's like, what did you see?

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And I told her at the time, I thought it

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was a wearwole. I didn't know that at this time

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the dogmen were a thing. And so I sat there

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and I described it, and I didn't fall asleep that night.

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She just want me to stay out there because I was,

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you know, I was literally shaken to the core because

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I you know, I used to watch horror movies and

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stuff like that, but this was real life. This was legit.

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This was you know, this was not a hallucination. This

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wasn't I mean, this was you know, I can remember it.

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Getting back to the point to the describing. You know,

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it had muscles, but it didn't have like male type

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of muscles. It was kind of a leaner type muscle.

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It wasn't like this bulky, heavy bodybuilder mass. It was like, yeah,

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it still had muscle tension and definition, but it was

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like it wasn't like I almost kind of want to

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think it was like almost like a like a female

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thought man, because it just I mean, it was it

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was an imposing specimen regardless, but it was still it

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wasn't like some other reports that were given that it

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was like like a man. So I mean, even to

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this day, it was like like I said, it became

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a core memory and for the longest time, you know,

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I had to stop watching certain horror movies. I couldn't

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go you know, I didn't even want to venture out

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after when it got dark anywhere. You know, Sheridan is

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not as populated as some other areas, and it took

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a lot for my wife to get me out, even

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for the longest time, to just get into a car

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and just drive out in the country because I'd always

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roll the windows up and lock the doors, and you know,

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it took a long long time for me to you know,

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process and even to this date it's it's not as

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terrifying because I know what it was, but it but

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having that misunderstanding, that fear, because people fear what they

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don't understand. And I definitely heard this thing for a

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very long time. I remember having night terrors that I

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would be dreaming about this thing. And like I said,

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it wasn't aggressive, but it was it was just a

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proof of something else out there that existed.

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Speaker 2: If you've had a dog mean encounter that you need

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00:16:35,919 --> 00:16:37,639
help dealing with, or if you'd like to be a

242
00:16:37,679 --> 00:16:41,399
guest on the show, please go to Dogmanencounters dot com

243
00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:44,519
and submit a report. If you've had a bigfoot sighting,

244
00:16:44,559 --> 00:16:46,000
we'll like to be a guest on one of my

245
00:16:46,039 --> 00:16:49,679
two big foot podcasts. Please go to my Bigfoot Sighting

246
00:16:49,799 --> 00:16:51,480
dot com.

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Speaker 1: So, as I informed you, I'm a semi retired paranormal investigator.

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So when people come to me with their situations, you know,

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they you know, they think I'm going to think they're

250
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crazy or something. But my second one was estimated between

251
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twenty ten and twenty sixteen, and this happened at the

252
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southern end of Sheridan County. The person that reported I

253
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work with her at at the place that I work at. Obviously,

254
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she she told me about her experience where she used

255
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to live on this really large ranch and she grew

256
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up on this ranch. So this lady knows what local

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lawdlife sounds like, what it looks like, what it you know,

258
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she can She used to take care of cattle and

259
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they would used to rent some of the area out

260
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for cattle, and she was in charge to make sure

261
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that the cattle are safe and secure and that they're

262
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all accounted for well. Strange things started happening in one

263
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of the areas that they had this little river and

264
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swamp area and then they called it the beaver area

265
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because they had a little beaver dam. But what was

266
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really interesting is that they had this burrow that was

267
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inside of I would say, you know, a large land mass,

268
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like a gulch or something a goalie. And every once

269
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in a while she would go out and take count

270
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of the cattle. But which was really interesting is when

271
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she would do that every once in a while, it

272
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wasn't all the time, but there would be a cattle missing,

273
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and eventually they would find like a carcass, and she

274
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told me that it didn't look like your tipped coal

275
00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:06,319
black bear or cougar or coyotes that would have done

276
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this through the cattle. In one particular memory that she

277
00:19:11,799 --> 00:19:15,440
had shared that her and a relative were on the

278
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back of a four wheeler. They were going out to

279
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go fix some fences and it was probably she said,

280
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it was kind of late at night, and they drove

281
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past the beaver pond and they were kind of going

282
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up a hill. She described something that was seven feet

283
00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:41,880
tall black had an amber eye. It stood by Petle

284
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and she told me that it literally started running after

285
00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:54,200
her and her family member back on a ATV. I'm

286
00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:56,240
not a ranch kid, believe it or not, even though

287
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I grew up in Sharon, Wyoming. But she said that

288
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:05,079
it started running bipedale And at this point in time,

289
00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:06,640
I asked her she got a good look at it,

290
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:10,519
and she said it was it was muscular, it was black,

291
00:20:10,839 --> 00:20:15,599
it was you know, she was describing a dog man basically.

292
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:21,000
But as getting back to the whole scenario, that as

293
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,920
soon as they started flooring the ATV, this thing got

294
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:29,839
on all fours and started chasing after them. I was

295
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:33,720
kind of kind of awestruck at that because ATVs can

296
00:20:33,759 --> 00:20:36,680
go like, I don't know, maybe forty fifty miles per hour,

297
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:40,279
and it kept up with them. She eventually said that

298
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,359
it beer to the left and went into some of

299
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:47,359
the birch woods and climbed up a tree and that's

300
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:51,200
that was the last time they saw saw this thing

301
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:55,720
at that point. So, but her family members at this

302
00:20:55,839 --> 00:21:00,000
ranch always told her, you know, never go out. You know,

303
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,240
of course, they're out on a ranch and there's other

304
00:21:03,279 --> 00:21:05,960
animals to be worried about. They were it almost kind

305
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:09,200
of sounded like they were taking extra precaution because of

306
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:12,480
this thing. And it seemed like more than one family

307
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:21,400
member had seen this thing. But they never they never

308
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:25,960
found any tracks, They never found anything abnormal other than

309
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,440
you know, just having account of go missing every once

310
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:34,799
in a while. They did have some They had some

311
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:41,960
like deer and elk. Eventually sometimes moose comes in and

312
00:21:42,039 --> 00:21:46,920
sometimes they those animals would like will be on high

313
00:21:47,039 --> 00:21:51,599
guard because of like like a big predator, like a

314
00:21:51,599 --> 00:21:54,519
bear or something. But they were noticing that there was

315
00:21:55,039 --> 00:21:58,480
almost little to no bears that were coming into the territory.

316
00:21:59,279 --> 00:22:02,240
So this this was this thing was spotted off and

317
00:22:02,319 --> 00:22:07,880
on throughout I don't know, probably I would assume about

318
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:11,519
maybe six eight years time span until they had to

319
00:22:11,559 --> 00:22:17,559
move away from the from the ranch. And the woman

320
00:22:17,559 --> 00:22:21,240
that reported it to me said that she has not

321
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:25,119
experienced anything. She hasn't heard anything. The ranchers are kind

322
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:28,160
of a tight knit community, so they're not going to

323
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:32,359
like totally reach out and dr reports of something like this.

324
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:38,640
They would be more than willing to handle this situation themselves. Unfortunately. Yeah,

325
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:43,200
so this black one spotted up and it was, like

326
00:22:43,279 --> 00:22:46,279
I said, this was a very large ranch. It was

327
00:22:46,319 --> 00:22:49,279
one of the largest rants on this side of the mountain.

328
00:22:50,599 --> 00:22:55,480
But a lot of other family members had, like I said,

329
00:22:55,160 --> 00:23:00,160
they experienced something, but they wouldn't like be totally were

330
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:06,519
coming on what they said or what they've witnessed. But

331
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,319
my friend actually thinks that there is a dog man

332
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:14,559
that lives on the property somewhere on the southern end

333
00:23:14,599 --> 00:23:20,759
of Sheridan County. So the next one, again was reported

334
00:23:20,799 --> 00:23:27,000
to me, was on a mountain side above Buffalo. Now

335
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:32,799
Buffalo is about thirty minutes away car wise. This one

336
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:38,240
was a little bit more. It was more sensitive because

337
00:23:38,319 --> 00:23:42,400
the person that was reporting to it unfortunately had his

338
00:23:42,519 --> 00:23:47,319
truck damaged at the point, so when he reported it,

339
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:49,680
he waited two years to get a hold. Well, he

340
00:23:49,759 --> 00:23:52,160
didn't even realize that I was doing all this, but

341
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:55,400
when he found out that I kind of look into

342
00:23:55,519 --> 00:23:58,599
some of this stuff, he brought his truck to me,

343
00:23:59,559 --> 00:24:02,720
and it was a Ford F one point fifty, which is,

344
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:08,240
you know, it's a medium sized truck. And when he

345
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,319
was describing his details that he was parked up on

346
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:16,559
this mountain range and he was just camping up there,

347
00:24:16,799 --> 00:24:21,319
just trying to just get away from everything. He encountered

348
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:26,200
what he reported to me was a howl. And when

349
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,799
he reported the howl, it was it was something deep.

350
00:24:30,279 --> 00:24:36,359
It was like like it was like a low Bilibert's type. Yeah,

351
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:40,240
I mean, it was just a it was just a

352
00:24:40,559 --> 00:24:45,000
very low, low howl. It made a very low noise.

353
00:24:45,039 --> 00:24:50,799
It's like he could actually feel it physically. So in

354
00:24:50,839 --> 00:24:56,759
a nutshell, he ended up trying to get out of there,

355
00:24:57,839 --> 00:25:01,200
but unfortunately he I wasn't really sure if there was

356
00:25:01,319 --> 00:25:07,000
one or more of dog men up there, but they

357
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:12,759
ended up clawing his truck. And the way that he

358
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:19,559
was describing to me, it was like if they really

359
00:25:19,599 --> 00:25:22,720
wanted to get to him, they could have done anything

360
00:25:22,839 --> 00:25:28,640
possible to get to him. I mean, there was glass.

361
00:25:28,759 --> 00:25:31,799
I mean, it just seemed like they were just concentrating

362
00:25:31,839 --> 00:25:36,079
on just trying to make a scene and let him lean.

363
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,079
He thinks that they were trying to get him, of course,

364
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:45,200
but I'm after telling him, I'm going over the evidence

365
00:25:47,279 --> 00:25:50,359
his truck ended up. He ended up buffing most of

366
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,200
it out because he just didn't realize to document that.

367
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:58,839
He still has a few scratches and tears into the

368
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,799
bed of the act truck, and I took when he

369
00:26:02,839 --> 00:26:05,359
pulled up the truck. I actually took out a measuring

370
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:09,160
tape and I, you know, I threw on the hood,

371
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:13,519
like like where the cab is. There is like literally

372
00:26:13,599 --> 00:26:18,079
a five foot long scratch on top of the roof

373
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:23,720
of the truck. So I measured that. I measured the

374
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:28,480
length versus the width, and it wasn't a bear. Bears

375
00:26:28,599 --> 00:26:32,039
kind of having a unique pattern their claws are together.

376
00:26:32,559 --> 00:26:37,519
These scratch markses were more far apart, and they were

377
00:26:37,559 --> 00:26:41,559
more more than probably I'm gonna have to look at

378
00:26:41,599 --> 00:26:45,160
the pictures again, but they were like between five to

379
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:49,720
seven inches apart. That that's wider than any black bear

380
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:55,599
that we will have. So with that and with that

381
00:26:55,759 --> 00:27:01,880
until considering it was two years go, we decided to

382
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:06,359
go back up where this event happened and we started

383
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:13,000
taking photographs of of some of the trees, and it

384
00:27:13,039 --> 00:27:17,039
looks like we got a decent sized print, like a

385
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:22,759
backfoot print. So I ended up keeping that I'm not

386
00:27:22,799 --> 00:27:26,359
a wildlife expert. I can't really say for sure what

387
00:27:26,519 --> 00:27:28,559
it could be. But when I when I tried to

388
00:27:28,599 --> 00:27:32,880
put some type of measurement in it, I you know,

389
00:27:33,079 --> 00:27:37,319
I'm I'm five foot eight, about one hundred and eighty

390
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,799
five pounds. I can put my finger down into it

391
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,920
and went up to my knuckle. So something really heavy

392
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:49,119
had to like press to make this print. So it's it's,

393
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,200
you know, I don't have anything really to go by,

394
00:27:52,440 --> 00:28:00,000
you know, comparing legitimate print because you know, I I

395
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:05,440
tried to cross reference the information that I had, you know,

396
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:10,440
on other online services, and there's a lot of stuff

397
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:14,279
that I just can't trust. So I don't know, you know,

398
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,200
I guess I could probably send that to you, Vick,

399
00:28:17,279 --> 00:28:19,039
if you're interested in it.

400
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 2: Oh, thanks for offering to send that, But yeah, I'm

401
00:28:22,519 --> 00:28:25,559
not a researcher, So as long as you're doing okay,

402
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:26,680
that's all I care about.

403
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:32,839
Speaker 1: Well, that brings to my last one happened this year. Actually,

404
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:37,559
this was kind of I was recording a part of

405
00:28:37,599 --> 00:28:40,759
my podcast when we were talking about you know, ghosts

406
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:45,640
and spirits and apparitions in a town called at Me.

407
00:28:46,079 --> 00:28:51,119
It's no longer existing, it's a ghost him. So the

408
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:55,160
person that I was kind of like having them sit

409
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,480
and talk to about his experience, we decided that, you know,

410
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,359
we're going to pause and we're going to go out

411
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:06,200
and you know, get back into you know, field research.

412
00:29:07,759 --> 00:29:11,559
So we go out out to acme and then we

413
00:29:11,559 --> 00:29:18,079
were conducting you know, just normal photograss videos, audio recordings

414
00:29:18,119 --> 00:29:22,200
and stuff like that just around the only building out

415
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:26,000
there now is a power plant, and we were just

416
00:29:26,039 --> 00:29:30,000
outside and just trying to you know, get evidence of

417
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:36,480
the paranormal and we're about to call it. And so

418
00:29:37,039 --> 00:29:40,920
there have been reports of dogmen out there for quite

419
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,839
some time. You know. Again, I thought, you know, maybe

420
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:47,480
it was just urban legend, you know, a lot of hogwash,

421
00:29:47,599 --> 00:29:50,839
but I really didn't, you know, take too much consent

422
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,640
in it. So as we were wrapping things up, my

423
00:29:54,759 --> 00:29:57,359
wife and one of my sons heard a howl and

424
00:29:57,359 --> 00:30:01,720
it was like ling in the distance. My son never

425
00:30:01,799 --> 00:30:06,160
really encountered any of this type of stuff before, but

426
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:10,759
apparently he got a legitimate look on us. So we

427
00:30:10,799 --> 00:30:14,000
didn't see anything. They just heard a howl and I

428
00:30:14,079 --> 00:30:19,359
wasn't a wolf, but it wasn't coyote. So we made

429
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:23,000
the collected decision that maybe it was a full moon

430
00:30:23,039 --> 00:30:27,240
at that time to just get up and just get

431
00:30:27,279 --> 00:30:30,759
on out of there, because we just didn't want to

432
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,599
encounter anything else other than what we were intending to encounter.

433
00:30:36,039 --> 00:30:38,519
Speaker 2: I'm sure with all the work you've put into researching

434
00:30:38,599 --> 00:30:41,880
dog men that you know that some people claim there

435
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,880
is a connection between dog men and the pure normal.

436
00:30:46,599 --> 00:30:48,319
What are your thoughts on that. Do you think dog

437
00:30:48,359 --> 00:30:50,960
men are pureanormal beings or do you think for the

438
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,519
most part, they're just flesh and blood animals.

439
00:30:54,319 --> 00:30:57,079
Speaker 1: Well, I would like to think that they're question blood,

440
00:30:57,119 --> 00:30:59,880
but I don't have enough data to say one way

441
00:31:00,119 --> 00:31:03,960
or the other right now. It's it's really hard to say,

442
00:31:04,119 --> 00:31:08,279
it really is, because it's like, for the longest time,

443
00:31:08,359 --> 00:31:10,000
you know, I thought these things were war wolves, and

444
00:31:10,319 --> 00:31:12,599
here I was thinking that, you know, there's this huge

445
00:31:12,599 --> 00:31:17,039
conspiracy of these colony of war wolves around Sheridan. Well,

446
00:31:17,079 --> 00:31:20,640
I'm kind of glad I was wrong about that. But

447
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:25,279
as for these you know, the deeper that I looked

448
00:31:25,319 --> 00:31:28,359
into it, these things are far more mysterious than anything

449
00:31:28,359 --> 00:31:33,039
else that I haven't absolutely encountered, because you know, there's

450
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:37,559
just so much information out there that kind of like

451
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,559
as soon as you think you get the answer, semi

452
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,880
witness encounter or some other bits of information comes up

453
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,519
and then you just have to rethink everything. You have

454
00:31:47,599 --> 00:31:50,720
to like take it back from point A and work

455
00:31:50,799 --> 00:31:54,640
your way back, and you know, I, like I said,

456
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:58,359
I hope they're biological. They would be easier to you know,

457
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:02,279
to study. I mean if they can be studied. If

458
00:32:02,319 --> 00:32:05,039
they can, they need to be protected by all means.

459
00:32:05,119 --> 00:32:10,519
They these things need to be to be to be

460
00:32:10,599 --> 00:32:14,279
protected in any shape, way or form. But if they're

461
00:32:14,279 --> 00:32:18,079
not biological, and your guess has got as good as mine, Vic,

462
00:32:18,119 --> 00:32:22,079
because I really don't know. I, like I said, as

463
00:32:22,079 --> 00:32:24,440
soon as I come across some information and I think

464
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,039
they're biological, there's just that one little head up that

465
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,960
makes me just have to restart over and rethink. I mean,

466
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:35,839
they could be and for dimensional they could be, they

467
00:32:35,839 --> 00:32:39,559
could be anything. They could be. I don't think they're tolpless, though,

468
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:41,759
that's one thing that I don't think that they are.

469
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:47,200
I think these things, you know, they're they're very stealthy.

470
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,759
They you know, they have some encounters. They have these

471
00:32:51,519 --> 00:32:55,400
interesting traits that kind of cross over into the supernatural,

472
00:32:55,440 --> 00:33:01,440
like stealth or you know, they're already strong. They're intelligence,

473
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:06,519
they have agility, they're like even if it's an a

474
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:11,799
biological aspect, these things would be like the perfect specimen

475
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:17,680
for whatever if they are biological, just by giving reports

476
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:27,039
and just doing mathematics with anatomy of wolves, a dog

477
00:33:27,119 --> 00:33:31,279
man's vein is larger. I think it's four and a

478
00:33:31,319 --> 00:33:35,119
half to five inches in length. So when I brought

479
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:38,519
that attention to some of the professionals here in sharing

480
00:33:38,599 --> 00:33:43,839
without saying that it was a dog man, a paleontologist

481
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:49,400
said that these spins were larger than a dire wolf,

482
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:54,599
which is an extinct species of woolf So that's something

483
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,319
I'm trying to break down, you know, the anatomy and

484
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:01,480
physiology of a dog man. But without having concrete, hard

485
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,720
evidence of any sort, Yeah, that's going to be hard

486
00:34:05,759 --> 00:34:07,000
to prove one way or another.

487
00:34:08,119 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 2: You were saying that the dog me and you saw

488
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:11,880
had things about four inches long.

489
00:34:12,639 --> 00:34:16,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you know, at the moment, in the heat

490
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:18,400
of the moment, it's not like I was able to

491
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:22,079
go out and measure, you know, ask it politely if

492
00:34:22,119 --> 00:34:27,079
I could measure its things. But it compared to the

493
00:34:27,079 --> 00:34:30,639
rest of the body and the length of this now,

494
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,920
it definitely looked like the things were like four and

495
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:38,440
a half to five inches in length. And like I said,

496
00:34:39,119 --> 00:34:44,280
you know, I took the measurements to a palaeontologist that

497
00:34:45,039 --> 00:34:49,559
had worked here at Shardon College, and he told me

498
00:34:49,639 --> 00:34:54,960
that if what I wasn't indeed true on the length,

499
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,119
it would be longer than a dire wolf, which is

500
00:34:58,159 --> 00:35:02,559
like really interesting because in the in paleontology, the dire

501
00:35:02,599 --> 00:35:07,519
wolf was an apex predator that lived in North America

502
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:10,880
and it had a bite force over two thousand psi.

503
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,880
So you know, it's kind of kind of hard for

504
00:35:16,039 --> 00:35:17,760
the mind not to wander off on that.

505
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, that doesn't give you all the warm and fuzzies

506
00:35:21,679 --> 00:35:24,880
thinking about that, teeth that big and being able to

507
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:29,039
bite as hard as a inevitably can bite. You said

508
00:35:29,039 --> 00:35:31,320
that you think that they're flesh and blood creatures. Now

509
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,840
that's a double edged sword. If they're flesh and blood,

510
00:35:35,159 --> 00:35:37,159
that means they have to eat. Do you see that

511
00:35:37,199 --> 00:35:38,760
as being a good thing or a bad thing.

512
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:45,199
Speaker 1: Well, it's it could be either or that way. It's

513
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,480
with the amount of calories that these things would have

514
00:35:49,559 --> 00:35:56,159
to ingest would be insane. I mean literally insane. I

515
00:35:56,159 --> 00:36:00,280
think a wolf needs twenty five to thirty pounds of

516
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,320
meat on a daily basis, and I can't even wrap

517
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:06,400
my head around on what these things would need to

518
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:10,280
calorie wise. We do have some big game here, but

519
00:36:11,519 --> 00:36:15,000
depending on the season, you know that some food might

520
00:36:15,039 --> 00:36:17,280
be slimmer pickings than others.

521
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 2: See that right there. That's one of the biggest reasons

522
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,519
why I just don't buy the idea that dogmen make

523
00:36:22,519 --> 00:36:25,800
a habit out of hanging out in numbers, because if

524
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,599
you think about the daily caloric requirements of a dog

525
00:36:28,679 --> 00:36:32,400
man like you just mentioned, it's going to be huge. Well,

526
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,880
if you have more than one in any given area,

527
00:36:35,199 --> 00:36:37,559
they're going to blow through the resources in that area

528
00:36:37,679 --> 00:36:41,320
in no time flat. Now, I do believe that occasionally

529
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,039
they might come together in numbers, but I think that's

530
00:36:44,079 --> 00:36:47,360
by far and away the exception and not the norm.

531
00:36:48,119 --> 00:36:50,519
Speaker 1: See that's interesting that the way that you put it,

532
00:36:50,559 --> 00:36:55,519
because all of least my encounters and other people's eyewitnesses

533
00:36:56,320 --> 00:37:00,639
encounters indicate that there was only one. It's kind of

534
00:37:00,679 --> 00:37:03,679
scary on the fact that if these would ever run

535
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:07,119
into a pack or anything like that, or whatever you

536
00:37:07,119 --> 00:37:11,800
want to call it, that would be insane. On how

537
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:16,239
much food that this not just not one, not having

538
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:20,519
multiple of them, it would be insane that the amount

539
00:37:20,679 --> 00:37:24,519
of prey that they would have to live off of. Now,

540
00:37:24,559 --> 00:37:27,119
like during the fall where we have the writing season

541
00:37:27,159 --> 00:37:29,719
of the elk and deer and all that. I can

542
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,960
kind of see it that way. And Wyoming is the

543
00:37:34,039 --> 00:37:37,559
least populated state, so we're we have more wildlife than

544
00:37:37,599 --> 00:37:44,880
we do people in this state. However, even if these

545
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,199
things had like even a very large hunting ground, they

546
00:37:48,199 --> 00:37:52,519
would still blow through probably about seventy five to eighty

547
00:37:52,559 --> 00:37:55,960
percent of other forms of wildlife and that would have.

548
00:37:55,920 --> 00:38:00,360
Speaker 2: To be noticed almost definitely. Yeah, we just don't have

549
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:04,440
the game resources here for large predators like that to

550
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:06,840
hang out in a group on the norm. Now in

551
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,679
Africa they have enough game to support that sort of

552
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:14,480
an arrangement, but yeah, over here, definitely not. So unless

553
00:38:14,519 --> 00:38:18,760
they are all supernatural beings, there's just no way that's

554
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:23,360
going to work. So I definitely agree. How much do

555
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:25,400
you think the fact that you're in your car when

556
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,360
you saw that white dog man soften the trauma that

557
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:30,440
you have been dealing with all these years?

558
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:35,760
Speaker 1: Well, now that I actually can look back and understand

559
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:39,719
the circumstances, I'm actually feeling quite blessed to be able

560
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:44,639
to witness that. Yes, that's stuck with me. But how

561
00:38:44,639 --> 00:38:47,119
many other people can actually say that they have actually

562
00:38:47,159 --> 00:38:49,440
seen one of these things? Not very many?

563
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,679
Speaker 2: Well, It's interesting you just said what you did, because

564
00:38:53,079 --> 00:38:55,320
my next question was going to be it sounds like

565
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:57,239
you got a pretty good look at that dog man.

566
00:38:57,559 --> 00:38:58,960
I was going to ask if you thought you might

567
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,039
have gotten too good of a luck and that's why

568
00:39:01,039 --> 00:39:04,880
you're traumatized. But from what you just said, I'm a

569
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:08,320
little confused. It sounds like now you're saying that you

570
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:10,679
wish you could have gotten an even better luck.

571
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the type of person I am. If I

572
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:18,880
have a curiosity, I go right towards the source. And

573
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:23,159
now that time has lapsed and I have actually had

574
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,599
the pleasure of visiting with you about some of it

575
00:39:27,559 --> 00:39:32,079
and started rethinking, you know, I wish you know that

576
00:39:33,199 --> 00:39:35,880
I wish I could have done a few things a

577
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:40,639
little different. I don't think I would have like exited

578
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:46,079
my car and you know, tried to visit with the thing.

579
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:50,079
But it's like I'm more intrigued now at this point

580
00:39:50,119 --> 00:39:55,599
than anything else. That fear just turned into intriguement.

581
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:59,360
Speaker 2: Don't fall into the could have, should have, would have game.

582
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,639
Think you handle that experience really well. Now you told

583
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:06,119
us it was all white. Was it a clean white

584
00:40:06,199 --> 00:40:08,199
or a dingy white?

585
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,880
Speaker 1: It was a clean it was like an eggshell white.

586
00:40:12,079 --> 00:40:16,880
It was not as white as most people's white walls.

587
00:40:17,119 --> 00:40:20,519
It was. It didn't have any fluctuation of any color.

588
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:23,039
I don't know if it was an alvino or if

589
00:40:23,079 --> 00:40:27,079
it was just white due to its coloration, but it

590
00:40:28,679 --> 00:40:30,800
The really weird thing is is that you could still

591
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:34,480
see the muscle tones underneath, underneath its fur or hair.

592
00:40:35,599 --> 00:40:40,519
It was very very well built. But like I said before,

593
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:44,920
it didn't look like a male. It didn't have that

594
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:46,039
male physique.

595
00:40:47,119 --> 00:40:49,280
Speaker 2: If it was just a flesh and blood animal the

596
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,960
way you think it is, or it was how do

597
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:54,079
you think a vibrant white dog mean? It can make

598
00:40:54,119 --> 00:40:55,679
a living out in the wild.

599
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:00,880
Speaker 1: You know, I couldn't tell you. You know, if it was

600
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,079
during the winter months and we have snow, I could

601
00:41:04,079 --> 00:41:09,000
see it camouflaging the way it is, you know, easy peasy,

602
00:41:10,079 --> 00:41:13,960
But during the three months that we don't have snow

603
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:18,840
or anything else like that, I couldn't tell you. Whatever

604
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:24,880
mechanism that they have. It's kind of puzzling due to

605
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:28,000
the fact that these things can just not be seen.

606
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:32,159
Either it's extreme amount of camouflage, or they're smart enough

607
00:41:32,199 --> 00:41:36,760
to hide in certain areas, or maybe it's another type

608
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:40,519
of pernoral activity that comes along with these things. But

609
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:42,159
I really can't answer that one. VIC.

610
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think anyone can. I will tell you this.

611
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:47,920
When I first started doing what I do, I was

612
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:50,679
convinced that all dogmen must be just flesh and blood,

613
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:52,719
the animals that are out there trying to scratch out

614
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:56,639
a living pun intended. But as time has gone by,

615
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:00,840
I'm convinced that dogmen have several ore. I think you

616
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,480
have some that are flesh and blood creatures. I think

617
00:42:03,519 --> 00:42:07,400
you have others that are supernatural beings. I think others

618
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:11,239
were probably made in government labs and test tubes. And

619
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,480
I wouldn't be surprised if others have alien origins. That

620
00:42:14,519 --> 00:42:16,880
would explain a lot of this. It really would.

621
00:42:18,079 --> 00:42:20,719
Speaker 1: Well with the alien aspect of it. You know that

622
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:24,599
there's been quite a few reports that you know, UFOs

623
00:42:24,679 --> 00:42:28,280
been cited in the same area. So, like I said,

624
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:31,920
I don't have en updata to really conclude on what

625
00:42:32,079 --> 00:42:34,800
these things are. So they're going to remain a mystery

626
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:40,000
until one is found, I guess. But I wouldn't recommend

627
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:41,960
going out, and you know, I'm trying to go pet

628
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,239
that dog as if the old term goes.

629
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:49,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, no doubt about that, pull back a stump. Does

630
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:52,320
the fact that it was white, a vibrant white, seem

631
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:55,079
to make it harder when you tell people about that experience,

632
00:42:55,079 --> 00:42:57,719
when it comes to them believing you, or does it

633
00:42:57,840 --> 00:42:58,840
not play into this?

634
00:43:00,599 --> 00:43:03,119
Speaker 1: Yeah? I think that was part of the cause, because

635
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:05,960
when I first started coming out and sharing my experience,

636
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:10,000
I kind of got teased about seeing a werewolf a

637
00:43:10,119 --> 00:43:13,239
dog man, and you know, it's like, okay, you can

638
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:15,320
crack chokes oll you want, I know what I saw.

639
00:43:16,519 --> 00:43:20,639
But in turn, by seeing this dog man, it really

640
00:43:20,679 --> 00:43:25,239
pushed me to start diving into the unknown, the supernatural

641
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:28,679
and paranormal. It just it was just one of those

642
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:32,559
things that just I don't know it. It was a

643
00:43:32,599 --> 00:43:36,039
catch fifty two. As the old woman says, paric phraise

644
00:43:36,119 --> 00:43:41,880
that goes, it's just, you know, it terrified me that

645
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:43,400
yet it it also inspired me.

646
00:43:44,559 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 2: Isn't it funny how your life can be taken a

647
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:48,800
course at one moment and then all of a sudden,

648
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:51,159
something just happens out of the blue, and then all

649
00:43:51,199 --> 00:43:52,679
of a sudden you're on a new course.

650
00:43:54,039 --> 00:43:56,559
Speaker 1: You know. I was always a firm believer of the

651
00:43:56,639 --> 00:44:00,000
supernatural and paranormal even when I was a little kid.

652
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:05,400
And you know, it's like when you encounter something that

653
00:44:06,679 --> 00:44:09,639
becomes a core memory, it shakes you down to your core.

654
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:13,239
You got one or two options. Well I kind of

655
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:15,159
stood in the middle of it. But you know, you

656
00:44:15,159 --> 00:44:18,119
can be terrified and not you know, it prevents you

657
00:44:18,199 --> 00:44:20,800
of living your life the way they that you are

658
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:23,840
wanting to live, or it can inspire you to do

659
00:44:24,199 --> 00:44:28,360
other things. So with my dog man encounter, it kind

660
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:32,559
of did both. It It put an aspect of there

661
00:44:32,599 --> 00:44:38,400
are some there are some things out here that need

662
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:42,840
to be understood there. I mean, obviously you know that

663
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:47,719
the initial shock that these things exist, but it also

664
00:44:48,199 --> 00:44:52,840
brings to the other side of the coin, where the

665
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:56,199
need to know frame a mind can be a very

666
00:44:56,280 --> 00:45:01,000
dangerous thing because sometimes it pushes people to do things,

667
00:45:01,119 --> 00:45:05,559
reckless things, and I have to be very cautious on

668
00:45:06,159 --> 00:45:09,320
how far I want to go after this interest.

669
00:45:10,159 --> 00:45:13,199
Speaker 2: It's always good to measure yourself when you're in your situation.

670
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:16,440
I'm so glad you're aware of that. Don't push it.

671
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:20,679
And of course, like we talked about baby steps, how

672
00:45:20,679 --> 00:45:22,440
far did you live from the spot where you saw

673
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:23,360
that white dog.

674
00:45:23,199 --> 00:45:30,559
Speaker 1: Man actually only probably two point three miles. I was

675
00:45:30,639 --> 00:45:35,199
living in town at the time, and this just happened

676
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:39,840
just right outside of town. There's the Wyoming Girls' School

677
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:44,320
that's on top of the hill that that is if

678
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:47,239
you just go down into this on Big Worn Avenue,

679
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:48,840
it kind of goes up on a hill where I

680
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:50,800
saw it was down in kind of like a small

681
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:56,840
ravine where where it was between two hills. So every

682
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,639
time I drive that road, it's like, okay, well here's

683
00:45:59,639 --> 00:46:03,199
where Wolf Road, and you know, all my friends and

684
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:05,760
family just kind of look at me weird. But when

685
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:10,159
I started explaining this whole situation to my wife, you know,

686
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:12,000
she was one of the very few people that didn't

687
00:46:12,039 --> 00:46:14,880
make fun of me because she she knows that, you know,

688
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:19,000
I'm about as one of those honest as first can be.

689
00:46:19,159 --> 00:46:24,079
And you know, it's but yeah, it wasn't It wasn't

690
00:46:24,079 --> 00:46:27,800
that far from town. So you know that that brings

691
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:33,360
up another question is like we have black bears and

692
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,360
cougars have followed the streams from the mountains and come

693
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:41,320
through town. So my my thing is is like how

694
00:46:41,559 --> 00:46:45,480
close have these things actually gotten? I won't ever know. Unfortunately,

695
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:49,719
due to limited resources and all that. But you know,

696
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:52,679
having it only two point three miles out of town,

697
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:55,800
you know at the time that was just still in

698
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:59,400
the outskirts. So I other than that, that's all I

699
00:46:59,400 --> 00:46:59,760
can tell you.

700
00:47:01,519 --> 00:47:04,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's awfully close to home and you went straight

701
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,559
home too. Did anything ever happen around the house that

702
00:47:07,679 --> 00:47:09,960
makes you think or that made you think that they

703
00:47:10,039 --> 00:47:13,000
might have paid you visit or I should say it

704
00:47:13,079 --> 00:47:14,119
might have paid you visit.

705
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 1: Just other than you know, the night terror is off

706
00:47:18,039 --> 00:47:21,119
and on throughout the following years now, I don't think so,

707
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:28,280
it's just whatever they are. You know, they don't want

708
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:31,119
to be involved in human affairs. They don't want nothing

709
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:35,679
to do with us. There. I think, in my personal opinion,

710
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:37,760
I think that we're more of a monster than they

711
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:43,039
are because humans can, unfortunately have that tendency to be

712
00:47:43,519 --> 00:47:45,440
a lot uglier than most wildlife.

713
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:48,320
Speaker 2: So from what you said, you don't think the dog

714
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:49,239
men are monsters?

715
00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:56,199
Speaker 1: No, not at all. I think if people are going

716
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:59,039
to be classifying evil in this world, it's mostly humans

717
00:47:59,079 --> 00:48:02,119
that are going to be evil. I mean, every once

718
00:48:02,119 --> 00:48:05,400
in a while you might get a disgruntled you know,

719
00:48:05,639 --> 00:48:09,880
bear or cougar or wolf that had a bad running

720
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:16,000
into with a human somewhere, and their prejudice kind of

721
00:48:17,119 --> 00:48:20,079
keeps from you know, it's present with them for the

722
00:48:20,119 --> 00:48:23,599
rest of the life because of some human doing something

723
00:48:23,639 --> 00:48:26,360
that they shouldn't have been doing. I'm not saying that,

724
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:30,519
you know, evil and animals or creatures or the paranormal,

725
00:48:31,599 --> 00:48:35,840
they do exist. I can attest that, but I don't

726
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:42,119
think these dogmen are wanting to fulfill that interaction because

727
00:48:42,159 --> 00:48:45,559
of the way that some humans are, especially around here

728
00:48:45,559 --> 00:48:48,440
in Wyoming, shoot for assess questions later.

729
00:48:49,519 --> 00:48:52,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no denying it. We do some monstrous things ourselves.

730
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:57,239
For your children who are too young to tell about

731
00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:00,800
your experience there, do you still tell them that monsters

732
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:01,480
don't exist?

733
00:49:02,679 --> 00:49:05,559
Speaker 1: No, I tell them they do exist. I am flat

734
00:49:05,559 --> 00:49:08,639
out honest with them. I don't why to my children.

735
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:13,320
I have to throw caution because I have two young

736
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:18,360
adults that like to go out for walks, and you know,

737
00:49:18,559 --> 00:49:25,440
it's Sharon's not It's safer than most places, but it's not.

738
00:49:27,519 --> 00:49:32,880
It's still not safe in some areas. So you know,

739
00:49:33,079 --> 00:49:38,320
I make sure that you know they have mace and

740
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:40,920
all of that, just to be on the safe side,

741
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:45,119
because you know, we do have some like cookars and

742
00:49:45,159 --> 00:49:48,079
blackberries that like to come through town every once in

743
00:49:48,119 --> 00:49:51,719
a while. And you know, I just I just want

744
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:56,039
to stress that, you know, be vigilant around your surroundings.

745
00:49:56,039 --> 00:50:01,239
Don't provoke something that you don't understand or you know

746
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:07,039
that you know, it's just I try to be honest

747
00:50:07,079 --> 00:50:10,840
with my children when it comes to you know, there

748
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:14,719
are things out there that are unexplained and they're not

749
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:19,039
very well documented either, so you know, more or less

750
00:50:19,519 --> 00:50:21,679
the chances they're going to end up with someone like

751
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:24,360
a human coming across their path that is going to

752
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:28,440
be more evil than anything else. But still when it

753
00:50:28,519 --> 00:50:33,320
comes to when it comes to the paranormals, which are supernatural,

754
00:50:33,559 --> 00:50:38,559
I'm fully honest with people. You know, there there are

755
00:50:38,599 --> 00:50:41,960
such things as I wouldn't call them monsters, but there

756
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:46,639
are a lot of unknown species, if you will, and

757
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:50,440
they're not very well documented, and we just got to

758
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:53,920
be careful. I mean, we just you don't want to

759
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:57,280
set off the wrong message. It's something that would you

760
00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:00,760
know that you don't know what it would do, like

761
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:05,239
any type of like either be supernatural paranormal or natural

762
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:07,960
like a bear or something. I mean, you just don't

763
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:13,599
want to yeah, be disrespectful, and you know, just you

764
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:15,039
just got to be prepared for it.

765
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:19,719
Speaker 2: And it's always best to be cautious. Now you've got

766
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:24,400
six children in the varying ages they're Kevin, what metric

767
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:27,320
do you use to determine whether it's time or not

768
00:51:27,519 --> 00:51:31,519
time to tell this particular child about your experience.

769
00:51:33,639 --> 00:51:37,639
Speaker 1: I have told all my children as as soon as

770
00:51:37,639 --> 00:51:41,960
they are able to comprehend it. No, some of my

771
00:51:42,039 --> 00:51:46,079
older children, you know, they're you know, they're they're not

772
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:49,119
poking fun at me just to make fun of me,

773
00:51:49,199 --> 00:51:52,719
but they're kind of like trying to make a like

774
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:57,840
the situation that I had. They kind of wanted to

775
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:01,159
make it a lighthearted situation until they learn something themselves

776
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:06,320
and then their attitude kind of changes about it. But

777
00:52:06,599 --> 00:52:08,840
my younger kids, I don't have anything to worry about

778
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:14,679
because they're you know, they're in their early teenage years

779
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:20,679
and they they know, like they I talk about some

780
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:24,480
of my other experiences other than not related to dog Man,

781
00:52:25,199 --> 00:52:29,159
and they have experiences themselves. So they they're smart kids.

782
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:33,679
They just have their own opinions on things. I guess man,

783
00:52:33,679 --> 00:52:34,480
they normally do.

784
00:52:35,599 --> 00:52:37,719
Speaker 2: Have you ever come to regret telling any of them

785
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:39,159
about that experience.

786
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:45,000
Speaker 1: No, not at all. Honesty is the best policy, and

787
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:50,800
it's just you know, I told them this is what

788
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:53,519
I experienced. It doesn't mean that you're going to experience it,

789
00:52:53,679 --> 00:52:57,159
but this is this is what happened. You can you

790
00:52:57,199 --> 00:53:02,599
can take this and Violet however you want to in

791
00:53:02,639 --> 00:53:03,039
your head.

792
00:53:04,199 --> 00:53:06,440
Speaker 2: Well, it sounds like telling the kids when as well

793
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:09,280
as it could be expected to go. So that's a

794
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:13,320
good thing. Now you told us how you stopped watching

795
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:16,280
certain kinds of horror movies. Does that mean that you've

796
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:19,760
only sworn off watching werewolf movies or have you sworn

797
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:23,119
off watching of the kinds of horror movies now as well?

798
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:29,239
Speaker 1: There for a long time I could not watch any

799
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:33,440
type of werelf movie at all. I don't care on

800
00:53:33,519 --> 00:53:36,519
how hokey the movie was. I just couldn't do it.

801
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:41,599
I just just couldn't do it. Just within the last month,

802
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:46,880
I started watching the movie The Howling, and normally that

803
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:52,599
one really bothered me because the structural of the werewolf

804
00:53:52,639 --> 00:53:54,679
in that movie is pretty much what I saw on

805
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:57,320
the middle of the road kind of. I mean, it's

806
00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:01,159
the closest one that I could relate to. But now

807
00:54:01,199 --> 00:54:05,840
I'm starting to kind of get over that hump, but

808
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:10,239
you know, it's it's going to take more time. But yeah,

809
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:14,519
anything dealing with were wolves. I'm really into Halloween, so

810
00:54:14,599 --> 00:54:18,199
it's like when a store has a werewolf anamatronic, I'm

811
00:54:18,239 --> 00:54:21,559
usually going the other way, and you know, my kids

812
00:54:21,559 --> 00:54:25,239
are laughing at me, and you know, thinking is you know,

813
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:27,400
it's going to come get you, and I don't think

814
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:32,360
that's funny, but you know, but yeah, yeah, just anything

815
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:38,599
dealing with lecanthethropes or were wolves or dog man. It

816
00:54:38,679 --> 00:54:41,280
shook me for a long, long, long time.

817
00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a bitter pill to go from being convinced

818
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:47,920
that we understand how everything in the world works to

819
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:51,800
suddenly realizing, guess what, there are definitely things out there

820
00:54:51,679 --> 00:54:54,599
are big things out there with sharp teeth that we

821
00:54:54,639 --> 00:54:59,480
don't know about. So I understand, I really do. You're

822
00:54:59,519 --> 00:55:03,199
obviously compromise to this day by that encounter Therey Kevin,

823
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:06,840
but you still wound up going out on a field investigation.

824
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:08,360
How'd that go?

825
00:55:10,239 --> 00:55:14,360
Speaker 1: Uh? That has yet to come along. I am still

826
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:20,920
trying to for the one that we for our scouting mission.

827
00:55:21,119 --> 00:55:23,920
It was you know, this was before I even reached

828
00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:27,119
out to you Vic, it was I was always you know,

829
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:31,079
looking over my shoulder, trying to pay attention to nature.

830
00:55:31,519 --> 00:55:37,000
You know, I was kind of I was extremely jumpy.

831
00:55:37,079 --> 00:55:42,360
I was nervous. It's just you know, I'm you know,

832
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:45,920
it's going to take a hot minute, you know, for

833
00:55:46,079 --> 00:55:49,360
all of those years to decompress and be able to

834
00:55:49,599 --> 00:55:53,760
rethink things like I should have since day one. But

835
00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:59,679
it was like, you know, I was trying to, you know,

836
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:01,960
when I was seeing evidence, you know, I was trying

837
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:06,000
to stay calm and you know, be rational and not

838
00:56:06,159 --> 00:56:09,519
just jump the gun and you know, just try to

839
00:56:09,519 --> 00:56:12,960
point everything for dogmen, because we do live in Wyoming

840
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:15,320
and there are a bunch of other type of wildlife

841
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:19,039
lives here. But then again, when we did come across

842
00:56:19,039 --> 00:56:23,920
some evidence that was kind of questionable, it was it

843
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:27,760
was still kind of it was definitely nerve wrecking. It

844
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:32,239
was like, you know, I'm just trying to still process

845
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:36,079
some of it, and it's just it's just like I

846
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:40,320
don't know, it was like you see certain things like

847
00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:46,559
claw marks and trees and footprints and evidence of like

848
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:50,920
large carcasses being dragged in a certain way because drag

849
00:56:51,039 --> 00:56:55,079
marks were still there. I in my head. I was

850
00:56:55,119 --> 00:56:57,840
trying to, you know, SA say to myself, it's like, okay,

851
00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:01,719
so this is probably you know, put it in denial.

852
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:03,679
This is not a dog, and this is something else.

853
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:06,079
I was trying to be realistic with it. But deep down,

854
00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:11,039
you know, I'm at that point I was. I was

855
00:57:11,079 --> 00:57:15,519
extremely cautious. I mean, I don't own guns or anything.

856
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:18,920
Most people do here in Wyoming, but I don't. So

857
00:57:20,559 --> 00:57:24,079
I didn't even grab a large stick like I normally

858
00:57:24,159 --> 00:57:28,239
used to do, and you know, holding on to a staff.

859
00:57:28,519 --> 00:57:33,320
I just I stayed in a line of sight of

860
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:35,880
the other people that were with me, and you know,

861
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:39,559
I kept on continuously checking on other people. And but

862
00:57:40,679 --> 00:57:45,039
I guess the best term of it is having these

863
00:57:45,079 --> 00:57:49,920
things eyes upon you is just kind of always constantly

864
00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:54,159
in my mind. I mean, at this point, I know

865
00:57:54,199 --> 00:57:57,119
they don't want to like do bad things, because they

866
00:57:57,159 --> 00:58:01,880
would have had ample opportunities to do so. But the

867
00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:09,760
still that that fear of not knowing, the fear of misunderstanding,

868
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:13,360
was it was, it was still present.

869
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:18,719
Speaker 2: I'm surprised you went on that investigation. In retrospect, do

870
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:20,360
you think that was a good idea?

871
00:58:24,199 --> 00:58:29,159
Speaker 1: Well, probably not at that point, but the bandit has

872
00:58:29,199 --> 00:58:30,280
to come off eventually.

873
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:33,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, in your only good time. I just wondered if

874
00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:36,199
that was a little too soon to rip that banded off,

875
00:58:36,239 --> 00:58:39,840
But who knows. It's really hard to say who is

876
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:40,599
with you though.

877
00:58:42,599 --> 00:58:49,440
Speaker 1: It was my son Wren, he's co host of my podcast,

878
00:58:49,639 --> 00:58:53,480
my wife Vanessa, she's co host of my podcast. And

879
00:58:53,880 --> 00:59:01,559
it was Brind's fiance that had this experience. So he

880
00:59:01,719 --> 00:59:05,480
was kind of leading us in the direction of where

881
00:59:05,519 --> 00:59:09,519
all of his events took place. But that was just

882
00:59:09,519 --> 00:59:11,800
pretty much about it. The next time we're going to

883
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:14,880
go up we're gonna we're going to have maybe one

884
00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:19,840
other person to come up there with us, and we're

885
00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:22,760
going to be up there for three days, I think.

886
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:29,000
So we're calling it a camping trip. It's not a

887
00:59:29,039 --> 00:59:31,239
snake it's a rope. It's a camping trip.

888
00:59:32,199 --> 00:59:36,199
Speaker 2: Well, needless to say, I hope your camping trip goes well.

889
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:41,440
Speaker 1: You know, I hope so too, because in all honesty,

890
00:59:42,199 --> 00:59:45,119
even if we do go up there, the chances of

891
00:59:45,199 --> 00:59:49,239
us encountering anything of Dogman type is probably going to

892
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:54,840
be zero point zero one percent. I think they're going

893
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:57,119
to stay clear from us. They're not going to want

894
00:59:57,159 --> 00:59:59,360
anything to do with this, it's just as long as

895
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:04,760
the respectful and we we understand and have that little

896
01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:07,599
type of communication. You know, I think things are going

897
01:00:07,679 --> 01:00:11,119
to be okay. But being in in the healthcare field,

898
01:00:11,199 --> 01:00:14,800
having vacations is kind of a necessary thing. But this

899
01:00:15,039 --> 01:00:17,119
was just kind of the thing that the dart landed

900
01:00:17,159 --> 01:00:18,679
on when we threw it on the map.

901
01:00:19,559 --> 01:00:22,199
Speaker 2: Well, that quote unquote camping trip might do you more

902
01:00:22,199 --> 01:00:25,320
good than you expect. Hopefully it will. I guess time

903
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:28,719
will tell. But having said that, we're about out of

904
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:30,719
time before we get out of here, do you have

905
01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:32,519
any clothes and comments you want to put out there

906
01:00:32,559 --> 01:00:33,679
for us?

907
01:00:35,079 --> 01:00:36,880
Speaker 1: Oh? Gosh, you know, I thought about this for a

908
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:39,320
long time and I can't come up with any words

909
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:42,840
of wisdom other than don't fear what you don't do,

910
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:47,599
not understand, try to understand it and embrace the knowledge

911
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:52,199
and be grateful that these encounters have happened.

912
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:57,000
Speaker 2: Well, those are good words. And also, one last thing

913
01:00:57,039 --> 01:00:58,920
before we do get out of here, would you like

914
01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:01,079
to plug your podcast? Asked one last time.

915
01:01:02,119 --> 01:01:07,440
Speaker 1: Sure, it's called Nature's Darkest. It's on Spotify. I got

916
01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:09,480
some on YouTube, but that was kind of the test

917
01:01:09,559 --> 01:01:11,920
run of it. Many many years ago. I don't do

918
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:16,360
anything on YouTube partly anymore, unfortunately, but yeah, you can

919
01:01:16,360 --> 01:01:18,639
find Nature's Darkest on Spotify.

920
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:22,559
Speaker 2: Well that makes it really easy. Kevin, I can't thank

921
01:01:22,599 --> 01:01:24,360
you enough for coming on and tell us about those

922
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:26,679
experiences you had. I really appreciate it.

923
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:32,719
Speaker 1: Well, I appreciate your time because it's your Like I

924
01:01:32,719 --> 01:01:35,480
said when we were talking, you know, in personal person,

925
01:01:35,519 --> 01:01:39,039
you know you're a godsend. You are. You know, even

926
01:01:39,079 --> 01:01:41,159
with a person that has experienced in the parent ormal

927
01:01:41,199 --> 01:01:46,519
and supernatural, we still need help, and youse are beyond

928
01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:50,400
the help that a lot of people need, and your

929
01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:54,039
services is priceless. They cannot put a price on it.

930
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:57,360
Speaker 2: Wow. Well, thank you so much for the kind words.

931
01:01:57,639 --> 01:02:00,920
You really do give me too much credit though I'm

932
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:05,159
not nearly that special, but that is awfully nice of you. Nonetheless,

933
01:02:05,639 --> 01:02:08,159
But having said that, Kevin, thanks again so much for

934
01:02:08,199 --> 01:02:10,960
your time. I really do appreciate it. H have a

935
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:24,559
great night.