Speaker 1: At a book.
Speaker 2: If you'd like to be able to listen to the
show without ads and have full access to bonus content,
that's an option. To find out how, please go to
Dogmanencounters dot com Forward Slash Podcast. Tonight's guest is Kevin Binach. Kevin,
welcome to the show.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you, Vick for the astounding honor to be
here with you and everyone tonight.
Speaker 2: Well, the honor is all mine. We really appreciate your time. Kevin,
please give us a brief bio on yourself.
Speaker 1: Well, I am a father of six children. I've been
married for twenty years to a wonderful wife that has
taken care of a lot of stuff. I live in Sharon, Wyoming,
which is kind of a nestled against the backdrops of
the big worn mountains.
Speaker 2: That sounds like a beautiful place. It really does.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it has a lot of history to it. But yeah,
when I'm not taking care of elderly residents, I also
am I'm kind of halfway retired paranormal investigators. So that's
been keeping me busy for off and on throughout the years.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm sure it has been. You produce a paranormal
theme podcast, Kevin, is your dog me an encounter that
we're going to talk about tonight. The reason why you
created it.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, technically that whole encounter sparred a whole what
if situation, But yeah, it's it's the main reason I
like to try to reach out to people and figure
out on the ends and outs of these type of things.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure how much you thought about it, but
you were definitely affected by your encounter, compromised in certain ways,
and by you creating that pure normal theme podcast. I
think that's probably helped you, has it.
Speaker 1: Yes and no, To be honest with you, When the
encounter happened, it became a core memory. And you know,
I'm the type of guy that you know, I could
feel comfortable in a cemetery or you know, an advanted place,
or you know, somewhere with really bad historical factors to it.
But there was just something about that whole situation that
just kind of shook me to the core and kind
of stayed with me for all these years.
Speaker 2: See, that's a funny thing about dog being encounters. You
take this person over here, who before they have the encounter,
you would think that, Okay, if they have an encounter,
they're gonna just deal with it so well. But this
person over here with those qualities doesn't deal with it
all that well. But this person over here, who you
think would fall apart after having an encounter, even a
bad one, they don't. You never really know. It's just
one of those things. You never know how an experience
like that is going to affect you until it happens
to you. But you are doing well, So as long
as we can say that, then you know, let's play
the glad game. Please tell us about your podcast.
Speaker 1: Well, I am a host of a podcast called Nature's Darkest.
It's a podcast dealing with paranormal events, activities, strange weather events,
missing people. It's just kind of all over the place.
Speaker 2: One of the things that comes along with doing a
podcast like that, a paranormal podcast where you talk about
ghosts and demons and other haunted areas, things like that
that most people who listen to them don't even think about,
is sometimes there's blowback that comes along with doing that.
I mean sometimes if you speak with hosts who post
shows like that, behind the scenes, they'll tell you about
strange things that happen to them while they're hosting shows.
Most of them don't seem to come forward and talk
about that sort of thing, but it definitely does happen.
As you've been hosting episodes of your show, has anything strange.
Speaker 1: Happened, Well, not really. It's just mainly just me talking
about my experiences and dealing with the paranormal. Every once
in a while I'll do like an interview, but no,
nothing like that has really affected the podcast as anything else.
I mean, it's just just coming about the topics. Really,
we're still trying to figure out our voice and our
format and stuff, and podcasts came a long way, but
it's not there yet.
Speaker 2: Well, it takes time and everyone listening. If you want
to check out Kevin's podcast, of course, I'm going to
post a link to it in the description for tonight's show.
That'll make it really easy to find. But back on
what we're talking about here, Yeah, a perfect example Art Bell.
He talked about that how he would be hosting episodes
of his show and things on the desk would start
moving around. So that's a perfect example of what I'm
talking about. Now. One thing I don't understand Kevin is,
like I said, you were compromised and you still are compromised.
By your dog mean encounter. But you still waited about
three months to contact me after you found out about me.
Why'd you wait?
Speaker 1: Well, first, I'm the type of person that likes to
do the research. When I was initially looking to reach
out to people, it was I just used Google and
typed in dog man books or media and stuff like that,
and that's where I came across you, and I started
listening to your wonderful podcast. And the reason I waited
so long is because I wanted to hear what other
people had to say about their encounters and I kind
of had to compare it. And then one night, at
three o'clock in the morning, I'm like, you know, I
just need to get a hold of this guy because
it's like, obviously the platform that he has, he has
a vast knowledge about these things. So sorry, I'm a
little nervous.
Speaker 2: Oh no, don't feel bad about that. I've had people
come on the show to have their own podcasts, just
like you, people who have had their podcasts for years
and years, and they get so nervous you can almost
hear them shake. So it's not unprecedented. It's not just
you now, Kevin, you still can't head into the woods
by yourself all years later. Do you think you're ever
going to be able to head into the woods again
by yourself? Someday?
Speaker 1: I would like to. I would really would appreciate just
being out there camping with my family and not being
on edge. I you know, it's it's a slow, steady process,
but it's I'm beginning to pretty much heal from that experience.
Speaker 2: Well, as long as you can say that, that's a
good thing. Like we talked about the other day, baby steps,
don't rush it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, now that you mentioned it. It was like just
the other night or a couple of days ago, there
was northern whites that was reported over at Sheridan. So
I kind of took my family out to the snowboll
Bill Turnouts, which is just kind of at the base
of the big Warre Mountains on the south side of Sheridan,
and it was it was actually nice, you know, to
be able to look up at the night sky and
see all the stars and be a part of eature again.
It felt nice.
Speaker 2: Well, that's really good. I'm glad you're able to do
that now. Living where you do by the Big Horns,
is it mostly open plains or do you have a
lot of forests around.
Speaker 1: What does it look like, Well, a lot of prairies,
a lot of foothills. But we are at the base
of the mountains. There are quite a bit of forests
even in here in town and Sheridan, but there's a
lot more the closer you get to the Big Horn Mountains.
It's usually green for the most part, except for like
in August, where it's all dried out. But it's beautiful
country there really is.
Speaker 2: Oh, it definitely sounds like it, all right, Kevin, Please
tell us about your experiences. Now give us a ver
last detail that comes to mind.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, my first encounter happened. I'm not really sure
on the dates, but it was between two thousand and
one and two thousand and three. Because of the nature
of my how I make an income, I usually work
like nights. But this particular night, I got off about
I would assume about eleven, and I was going out
of Sheridan on Big Horn Avenue, which is a road
that goes south. And as I was going south on
Big Horn Avenue, I saw this object come across the road.
So I slowed down because I didn't want to hit it.
Because first you know, I was thinking maybe it was
a deer, but then I turned my brights on and
come to find it wasn't a deer. What I saw
was it was about from six to seven feet all.
When I first sawt, it was hunched over on all fours.
Speaker 3: The fur or hair was completely all white. The back
part of its legs were more like dog legs, but
the torso and the forearms and the pies and the
shoulder area was was It looked like a human.
Speaker 1: It was a humanoid. When I started looking at it
even more, it had really long forearms. I mean, these
things were unnaturally long. It had had a husky tail,
you know how the husky tail kind of curves up
and kind of has the hair. This thing was white.
I mean it was literally white. It was muscular, but
it wasn't like like a male muscular. The head which
really took me off because while I was staring at this,
it actually stood up and turned its torso towards me
so I could like really get a good look at it.
The ears on this was extremely long. They were kind
of between the top and the mid It like moved
its sears like on how a wolf or a dog would.
But the muzzle on this thing was it was pretty
it was pretty long. It didn't like smarl or anything
at me, but it definitely looked at me and like
and gave me the look like I was sitting in
my car, like I said, and this thing just looked
at me and like, don't you come any closer? And
I'm just looking at this thing. And then it just
kind of like realized I wasn't no threat, and then
it went back onto all fours. But it jumped from
the middle of this freeway to the shoulder, and then
from the shoulder it jumped over a four foot barbar
fence and ran into the field. There's houses now in
the field, but at this time it was it was
kind of connected to the airport, so there was a
lot of vass very still available. And when it started
running off into the field, it was like it launched
itself from its forearms and then the back end legs
kind of came underneath of it and pushed off. But
this thing was quick. It disappeared into the darkness really quick,
evening considering it was white. But I was just kind
of left there, you know, kind of stunted because it's like,
what did I just see. And so I continued driving
out to my friends's house and she looked at me
at the time and she's like, what did you see?
And I told her at the time, I thought it
was a wearwole. I didn't know that at this time
the dogmen were a thing. And so I sat there
and I described it, and I didn't fall asleep that night.
She just want me to stay out there because I was,
you know, I was literally shaken to the core because
I you know, I used to watch horror movies and
stuff like that, but this was real life. This was legit.
This was you know, this was not a hallucination. This
wasn't I mean, this was you know, I can remember it.
Getting back to the point to the describing. You know,
it had muscles, but it didn't have like male type
of muscles. It was kind of a leaner type muscle.
It wasn't like this bulky, heavy bodybuilder mass. It was like, yeah,
it still had muscle tension and definition, but it was
like it wasn't like I almost kind of want to
think it was like almost like a like a female
thought man, because it just I mean, it was it
was an imposing specimen regardless, but it was still it
wasn't like some other reports that were given that it
was like like a man. So I mean, even to
this day, it was like like I said, it became
a core memory and for the longest time, you know,
I had to stop watching certain horror movies. I couldn't
go you know, I didn't even want to venture out
after when it got dark anywhere. You know, Sheridan is
not as populated as some other areas, and it took
a lot for my wife to get me out, even
for the longest time, to just get into a car
and just drive out in the country because I'd always
roll the windows up and lock the doors, and you know,
it took a long long time for me to you know,
process and even to this date it's it's not as
terrifying because I know what it was, but it but
having that misunderstanding, that fear, because people fear what they
don't understand. And I definitely heard this thing for a
very long time. I remember having night terrors that I
would be dreaming about this thing. And like I said,
it wasn't aggressive, but it was it was just a
proof of something else out there that existed.
Speaker 2: If you've had a dog mean encounter that you need
help dealing with, or if you'd like to be a
guest on the show, please go to Dogmanencounters dot com
and submit a report. If you've had a bigfoot sighting,
we'll like to be a guest on one of my
two big foot podcasts. Please go to my Bigfoot Sighting
dot com.
Speaker 1: So, as I informed you, I'm a semi retired paranormal investigator.
So when people come to me with their situations, you know,
they you know, they think I'm going to think they're
crazy or something. But my second one was estimated between
twenty ten and twenty sixteen, and this happened at the
southern end of Sheridan County. The person that reported I
work with her at at the place that I work at. Obviously,
she she told me about her experience where she used
to live on this really large ranch and she grew
up on this ranch. So this lady knows what local
lawdlife sounds like, what it looks like, what it you know,
she can She used to take care of cattle and
they would used to rent some of the area out
for cattle, and she was in charge to make sure
that the cattle are safe and secure and that they're
all accounted for well. Strange things started happening in one
of the areas that they had this little river and
swamp area and then they called it the beaver area
because they had a little beaver dam. But what was
really interesting is that they had this burrow that was
inside of I would say, you know, a large land mass,
like a gulch or something a goalie. And every once
in a while she would go out and take count
of the cattle. But which was really interesting is when
she would do that every once in a while, it
wasn't all the time, but there would be a cattle missing,
and eventually they would find like a carcass, and she
told me that it didn't look like your tipped coal
black bear or cougar or coyotes that would have done
this through the cattle. In one particular memory that she
had shared that her and a relative were on the
back of a four wheeler. They were going out to
go fix some fences and it was probably she said,
it was kind of late at night, and they drove
past the beaver pond and they were kind of going
up a hill. She described something that was seven feet
tall black had an amber eye. It stood by Petle
and she told me that it literally started running after
her and her family member back on a ATV. I'm
not a ranch kid, believe it or not, even though
I grew up in Sharon, Wyoming. But she said that
it started running bipedale And at this point in time,
I asked her she got a good look at it,
and she said it was it was muscular, it was black,
it was you know, she was describing a dog man basically.
But as getting back to the whole scenario, that as
soon as they started flooring the ATV, this thing got
on all fours and started chasing after them. I was
kind of kind of awestruck at that because ATVs can
go like, I don't know, maybe forty fifty miles per hour,
and it kept up with them. She eventually said that
it beer to the left and went into some of
the birch woods and climbed up a tree and that's
that was the last time they saw saw this thing
at that point. So, but her family members at this
ranch always told her, you know, never go out. You know,
of course, they're out on a ranch and there's other
animals to be worried about. They were it almost kind
of sounded like they were taking extra precaution because of
this thing. And it seemed like more than one family
member had seen this thing. But they never they never
found any tracks, They never found anything abnormal other than
you know, just having account of go missing every once
in a while. They did have some They had some
like deer and elk. Eventually sometimes moose comes in and
sometimes they those animals would like will be on high
guard because of like like a big predator, like a
bear or something. But they were noticing that there was
almost little to no bears that were coming into the territory.
So this this was this thing was spotted off and
on throughout I don't know, probably I would assume about
maybe six eight years time span until they had to
move away from the from the ranch. And the woman
that reported it to me said that she has not
experienced anything. She hasn't heard anything. The ranchers are kind
of a tight knit community, so they're not going to
like totally reach out and dr reports of something like this.
They would be more than willing to handle this situation themselves. Unfortunately. Yeah,
so this black one spotted up and it was, like
I said, this was a very large ranch. It was
one of the largest rants on this side of the mountain.
But a lot of other family members had, like I said,
they experienced something, but they wouldn't like be totally were
coming on what they said or what they've witnessed. But
my friend actually thinks that there is a dog man
that lives on the property somewhere on the southern end
of Sheridan County. So the next one, again was reported
to me, was on a mountain side above Buffalo. Now
Buffalo is about thirty minutes away car wise. This one
was a little bit more. It was more sensitive because
the person that was reporting to it unfortunately had his
truck damaged at the point, so when he reported it,
he waited two years to get a hold. Well, he
didn't even realize that I was doing all this, but
when he found out that I kind of look into
some of this stuff, he brought his truck to me,
and it was a Ford F one point fifty, which is,
you know, it's a medium sized truck. And when he
was describing his details that he was parked up on
this mountain range and he was just camping up there,
just trying to just get away from everything. He encountered
what he reported to me was a howl. And when
he reported the howl, it was it was something deep.
It was like like it was like a low Bilibert's type. Yeah,
I mean, it was just a it was just a
very low, low howl. It made a very low noise.
It's like he could actually feel it physically. So in
a nutshell, he ended up trying to get out of there,
but unfortunately he I wasn't really sure if there was
one or more of dog men up there, but they
ended up clawing his truck. And the way that he
was describing to me, it was like if they really
wanted to get to him, they could have done anything
possible to get to him. I mean, there was glass.
I mean, it just seemed like they were just concentrating
on just trying to make a scene and let him lean.
He thinks that they were trying to get him, of course,
but I'm after telling him, I'm going over the evidence
his truck ended up. He ended up buffing most of
it out because he just didn't realize to document that.
He still has a few scratches and tears into the
bed of the act truck, and I took when he
pulled up the truck. I actually took out a measuring
tape and I, you know, I threw on the hood,
like like where the cab is. There is like literally
a five foot long scratch on top of the roof
of the truck. So I measured that. I measured the
length versus the width, and it wasn't a bear. Bears
kind of having a unique pattern their claws are together.
These scratch markses were more far apart, and they were
more more than probably I'm gonna have to look at
the pictures again, but they were like between five to
seven inches apart. That that's wider than any black bear
that we will have. So with that and with that
until considering it was two years go, we decided to
go back up where this event happened and we started
taking photographs of of some of the trees, and it
looks like we got a decent sized print, like a
backfoot print. So I ended up keeping that I'm not
a wildlife expert. I can't really say for sure what
it could be. But when I when I tried to
put some type of measurement in it, I you know,
I'm I'm five foot eight, about one hundred and eighty
five pounds. I can put my finger down into it
and went up to my knuckle. So something really heavy
had to like press to make this print. So it's it's,
you know, I don't have anything really to go by,
you know, comparing legitimate print because you know, I I
tried to cross reference the information that I had, you know,
on other online services, and there's a lot of stuff
that I just can't trust. So I don't know, you know,
I guess I could probably send that to you, Vick,
if you're interested in it.
Speaker 2: Oh, thanks for offering to send that, But yeah, I'm
not a researcher, So as long as you're doing okay,
that's all I care about.
Speaker 1: Well, that brings to my last one happened this year. Actually,
this was kind of I was recording a part of
my podcast when we were talking about you know, ghosts
and spirits and apparitions in a town called at Me.
It's no longer existing, it's a ghost him. So the
person that I was kind of like having them sit
and talk to about his experience, we decided that, you know,
we're going to pause and we're going to go out
and you know, get back into you know, field research.
So we go out out to acme and then we
were conducting you know, just normal photograss videos, audio recordings
and stuff like that just around the only building out
there now is a power plant, and we were just
outside and just trying to you know, get evidence of
the paranormal and we're about to call it. And so
there have been reports of dogmen out there for quite
some time. You know. Again, I thought, you know, maybe
it was just urban legend, you know, a lot of hogwash,
but I really didn't, you know, take too much consent
in it. So as we were wrapping things up, my
wife and one of my sons heard a howl and
it was like ling in the distance. My son never
really encountered any of this type of stuff before, but
apparently he got a legitimate look on us. So we
didn't see anything. They just heard a howl and I
wasn't a wolf, but it wasn't coyote. So we made
the collected decision that maybe it was a full moon
at that time to just get up and just get
on out of there, because we just didn't want to
encounter anything else other than what we were intending to encounter.
Speaker 2: I'm sure with all the work you've put into researching
dog men that you know that some people claim there
is a connection between dog men and the pure normal.
What are your thoughts on that. Do you think dog
men are pureanormal beings or do you think for the
most part, they're just flesh and blood animals.
Speaker 1: Well, I would like to think that they're question blood,
but I don't have enough data to say one way
or the other right now. It's it's really hard to say,
it really is, because it's like, for the longest time,
you know, I thought these things were war wolves, and
here I was thinking that, you know, there's this huge
conspiracy of these colony of war wolves around Sheridan. Well,
I'm kind of glad I was wrong about that. But
as for these you know, the deeper that I looked
into it, these things are far more mysterious than anything
else that I haven't absolutely encountered, because you know, there's
just so much information out there that kind of like
as soon as you think you get the answer, semi
witness encounter or some other bits of information comes up
and then you just have to rethink everything. You have
to like take it back from point A and work
your way back, and you know, I, like I said,
I hope they're biological. They would be easier to you know,
to study. I mean if they can be studied. If
they can, they need to be protected by all means.
They these things need to be to be to be
protected in any shape, way or form. But if they're
not biological, and your guess has got as good as mine, Vic,
because I really don't know. I, like I said, as
soon as I come across some information and I think
they're biological, there's just that one little head up that
makes me just have to restart over and rethink. I mean,
they could be and for dimensional they could be, they
could be anything. They could be. I don't think they're tolpless, though,
that's one thing that I don't think that they are.
I think these things, you know, they're they're very stealthy.
They you know, they have some encounters. They have these
interesting traits that kind of cross over into the supernatural,
like stealth or you know, they're already strong. They're intelligence,
they have agility, they're like even if it's an a
biological aspect, these things would be like the perfect specimen
for whatever if they are biological, just by giving reports
and just doing mathematics with anatomy of wolves, a dog
man's vein is larger. I think it's four and a
half to five inches in length. So when I brought
that attention to some of the professionals here in sharing
without saying that it was a dog man, a paleontologist
said that these spins were larger than a dire wolf,
which is an extinct species of woolf So that's something
I'm trying to break down, you know, the anatomy and
physiology of a dog man. But without having concrete, hard
evidence of any sort, Yeah, that's going to be hard
to prove one way or another.
Speaker 2: You were saying that the dog me and you saw
had things about four inches long.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you know, at the moment, in the heat
of the moment, it's not like I was able to
go out and measure, you know, ask it politely if
I could measure its things. But it compared to the
rest of the body and the length of this now,
it definitely looked like the things were like four and
a half to five inches in length. And like I said,
you know, I took the measurements to a palaeontologist that
had worked here at Shardon College, and he told me
that if what I wasn't indeed true on the length,
it would be longer than a dire wolf, which is
like really interesting because in the in paleontology, the dire
wolf was an apex predator that lived in North America
and it had a bite force over two thousand psi.
So you know, it's kind of kind of hard for
the mind not to wander off on that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that doesn't give you all the warm and fuzzies
thinking about that, teeth that big and being able to
bite as hard as a inevitably can bite. You said
that you think that they're flesh and blood creatures. Now
that's a double edged sword. If they're flesh and blood,
that means they have to eat. Do you see that
as being a good thing or a bad thing.
Speaker 1: Well, it's it could be either or that way. It's
with the amount of calories that these things would have
to ingest would be insane. I mean literally insane. I
think a wolf needs twenty five to thirty pounds of
meat on a daily basis, and I can't even wrap
my head around on what these things would need to
calorie wise. We do have some big game here, but
depending on the season, you know that some food might
be slimmer pickings than others.
Speaker 2: See that right there. That's one of the biggest reasons
why I just don't buy the idea that dogmen make
a habit out of hanging out in numbers, because if
you think about the daily caloric requirements of a dog
man like you just mentioned, it's going to be huge. Well,
if you have more than one in any given area,
they're going to blow through the resources in that area
in no time flat. Now, I do believe that occasionally
they might come together in numbers, but I think that's
by far and away the exception and not the norm.
Speaker 1: See that's interesting that the way that you put it,
because all of least my encounters and other people's eyewitnesses
encounters indicate that there was only one. It's kind of
scary on the fact that if these would ever run
into a pack or anything like that, or whatever you
want to call it, that would be insane. On how
much food that this not just not one, not having
multiple of them, it would be insane that the amount
of prey that they would have to live off of. Now,
like during the fall where we have the writing season
of the elk and deer and all that. I can
kind of see it that way. And Wyoming is the
least populated state, so we're we have more wildlife than
we do people in this state. However, even if these
things had like even a very large hunting ground, they
would still blow through probably about seventy five to eighty
percent of other forms of wildlife and that would have.
Speaker 2: To be noticed almost definitely. Yeah, we just don't have
the game resources here for large predators like that to
hang out in a group on the norm. Now in
Africa they have enough game to support that sort of
an arrangement, but yeah, over here, definitely not. So unless
they are all supernatural beings, there's just no way that's
going to work. So I definitely agree. How much do
you think the fact that you're in your car when
you saw that white dog man soften the trauma that
you have been dealing with all these years?
Speaker 1: Well, now that I actually can look back and understand
the circumstances, I'm actually feeling quite blessed to be able
to witness that. Yes, that's stuck with me. But how
many other people can actually say that they have actually
seen one of these things? Not very many?
Speaker 2: Well, It's interesting you just said what you did, because
my next question was going to be it sounds like
you got a pretty good look at that dog man.
I was going to ask if you thought you might
have gotten too good of a luck and that's why
you're traumatized. But from what you just said, I'm a
little confused. It sounds like now you're saying that you
wish you could have gotten an even better luck.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the type of person I am. If I
have a curiosity, I go right towards the source. And
now that time has lapsed and I have actually had
the pleasure of visiting with you about some of it
and started rethinking, you know, I wish you know that
I wish I could have done a few things a
little different. I don't think I would have like exited
my car and you know, tried to visit with the thing.
But it's like I'm more intrigued now at this point
than anything else. That fear just turned into intriguement.
Speaker 2: Don't fall into the could have, should have, would have game.
Think you handle that experience really well. Now you told
us it was all white. Was it a clean white
or a dingy white?
Speaker 1: It was a clean it was like an eggshell white.
It was not as white as most people's white walls.
It was. It didn't have any fluctuation of any color.
I don't know if it was an alvino or if
it was just white due to its coloration, but it
The really weird thing is is that you could still
see the muscle tones underneath, underneath its fur or hair.
It was very very well built. But like I said before,
it didn't look like a male. It didn't have that
male physique.
Speaker 2: If it was just a flesh and blood animal the
way you think it is, or it was how do
you think a vibrant white dog mean? It can make
a living out in the wild.
Speaker 1: You know, I couldn't tell you. You know, if it was
during the winter months and we have snow, I could
see it camouflaging the way it is, you know, easy peasy,
But during the three months that we don't have snow
or anything else like that, I couldn't tell you. Whatever
mechanism that they have. It's kind of puzzling due to
the fact that these things can just not be seen.
Either it's extreme amount of camouflage, or they're smart enough
to hide in certain areas, or maybe it's another type
of pernoral activity that comes along with these things. But
I really can't answer that one. VIC.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think anyone can. I will tell you this.
When I first started doing what I do, I was
convinced that all dogmen must be just flesh and blood,
the animals that are out there trying to scratch out
a living pun intended. But as time has gone by,
I'm convinced that dogmen have several ore. I think you
have some that are flesh and blood creatures. I think
you have others that are supernatural beings. I think others
were probably made in government labs and test tubes. And
I wouldn't be surprised if others have alien origins. That
would explain a lot of this. It really would.
Speaker 1: Well with the alien aspect of it. You know that
there's been quite a few reports that you know, UFOs
been cited in the same area. So, like I said,
I don't have en updata to really conclude on what
these things are. So they're going to remain a mystery
until one is found, I guess. But I wouldn't recommend
going out, and you know, I'm trying to go pet
that dog as if the old term goes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no doubt about that, pull back a stump. Does
the fact that it was white, a vibrant white, seem
to make it harder when you tell people about that experience,
when it comes to them believing you, or does it
not play into this?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I think that was part of the cause, because
when I first started coming out and sharing my experience,
I kind of got teased about seeing a werewolf a
dog man, and you know, it's like, okay, you can
crack chokes oll you want, I know what I saw.
But in turn, by seeing this dog man, it really
pushed me to start diving into the unknown, the supernatural
and paranormal. It just it was just one of those
things that just I don't know it. It was a
catch fifty two. As the old woman says, paric phraise
that goes, it's just, you know, it terrified me that
yet it it also inspired me.
Speaker 2: Isn't it funny how your life can be taken a
course at one moment and then all of a sudden,
something just happens out of the blue, and then all
of a sudden you're on a new course.
Speaker 1: You know. I was always a firm believer of the
supernatural and paranormal even when I was a little kid.
And you know, it's like when you encounter something that
becomes a core memory, it shakes you down to your core.
You got one or two options. Well I kind of
stood in the middle of it. But you know, you
can be terrified and not you know, it prevents you
of living your life the way they that you are
wanting to live, or it can inspire you to do
other things. So with my dog man encounter, it kind
of did both. It It put an aspect of there
are some there are some things out here that need
to be understood there. I mean, obviously you know that
the initial shock that these things exist, but it also
brings to the other side of the coin, where the
need to know frame a mind can be a very
dangerous thing because sometimes it pushes people to do things,
reckless things, and I have to be very cautious on
how far I want to go after this interest.
Speaker 2: It's always good to measure yourself when you're in your situation.
I'm so glad you're aware of that. Don't push it.
And of course, like we talked about baby steps, how
far did you live from the spot where you saw
that white dog.
Speaker 1: Man actually only probably two point three miles. I was
living in town at the time, and this just happened
just right outside of town. There's the Wyoming Girls' School
that's on top of the hill that that is if
you just go down into this on Big Worn Avenue,
it kind of goes up on a hill where I
saw it was down in kind of like a small
ravine where where it was between two hills. So every
time I drive that road, it's like, okay, well here's
where Wolf Road, and you know, all my friends and
family just kind of look at me weird. But when
I started explaining this whole situation to my wife, you know,
she was one of the very few people that didn't
make fun of me because she she knows that, you know,
I'm about as one of those honest as first can be.
And you know, it's but yeah, it wasn't It wasn't
that far from town. So you know that that brings
up another question is like we have black bears and
cougars have followed the streams from the mountains and come
through town. So my my thing is is like how
close have these things actually gotten? I won't ever know. Unfortunately,
due to limited resources and all that. But you know,
having it only two point three miles out of town,
you know at the time that was just still in
the outskirts. So I other than that, that's all I
can tell you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's awfully close to home and you went straight
home too. Did anything ever happen around the house that
makes you think or that made you think that they
might have paid you visit or I should say it
might have paid you visit.
Speaker 1: Just other than you know, the night terror is off
and on throughout the following years now, I don't think so,
it's just whatever they are. You know, they don't want
to be involved in human affairs. They don't want nothing
to do with us. There. I think, in my personal opinion,
I think that we're more of a monster than they
are because humans can, unfortunately have that tendency to be
a lot uglier than most wildlife.
Speaker 2: So from what you said, you don't think the dog
men are monsters?
Speaker 1: No, not at all. I think if people are going
to be classifying evil in this world, it's mostly humans
that are going to be evil. I mean, every once
in a while you might get a disgruntled you know,
bear or cougar or wolf that had a bad running
into with a human somewhere, and their prejudice kind of
keeps from you know, it's present with them for the
rest of the life because of some human doing something
that they shouldn't have been doing. I'm not saying that,
you know, evil and animals or creatures or the paranormal,
they do exist. I can attest that, but I don't
think these dogmen are wanting to fulfill that interaction because
of the way that some humans are, especially around here
in Wyoming, shoot for assess questions later.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no denying it. We do some monstrous things ourselves.
For your children who are too young to tell about
your experience there, do you still tell them that monsters
don't exist?
Speaker 1: No, I tell them they do exist. I am flat
out honest with them. I don't why to my children.
I have to throw caution because I have two young
adults that like to go out for walks, and you know,
it's Sharon's not It's safer than most places, but it's not.
It's still not safe in some areas. So you know,
I make sure that you know they have mace and
all of that, just to be on the safe side,
because you know, we do have some like cookars and
blackberries that like to come through town every once in
a while. And you know, I just I just want
to stress that, you know, be vigilant around your surroundings.
Don't provoke something that you don't understand or you know
that you know, it's just I try to be honest
with my children when it comes to you know, there
are things out there that are unexplained and they're not
very well documented either, so you know, more or less
the chances they're going to end up with someone like
a human coming across their path that is going to
be more evil than anything else. But still when it
comes to when it comes to the paranormals, which are supernatural,
I'm fully honest with people. You know, there there are
such things as I wouldn't call them monsters, but there
are a lot of unknown species, if you will, and
they're not very well documented, and we just got to
be careful. I mean, we just you don't want to
set off the wrong message. It's something that would you
know that you don't know what it would do, like
any type of like either be supernatural paranormal or natural
like a bear or something. I mean, you just don't
want to yeah, be disrespectful, and you know, just you
just got to be prepared for it.
Speaker 2: And it's always best to be cautious. Now you've got
six children in the varying ages they're Kevin, what metric
do you use to determine whether it's time or not
time to tell this particular child about your experience.
Speaker 1: I have told all my children as as soon as
they are able to comprehend it. No, some of my
older children, you know, they're you know, they're they're not
poking fun at me just to make fun of me,
but they're kind of like trying to make a like
the situation that I had. They kind of wanted to
make it a lighthearted situation until they learn something themselves
and then their attitude kind of changes about it. But
my younger kids, I don't have anything to worry about
because they're you know, they're in their early teenage years
and they they know, like they I talk about some
of my other experiences other than not related to dog Man,
and they have experiences themselves. So they they're smart kids.
They just have their own opinions on things. I guess man,
they normally do.
Speaker 2: Have you ever come to regret telling any of them
about that experience.
Speaker 1: No, not at all. Honesty is the best policy, and
it's just you know, I told them this is what
I experienced. It doesn't mean that you're going to experience it,
but this is this is what happened. You can you
can take this and Violet however you want to in
your head.
Speaker 2: Well, it sounds like telling the kids when as well
as it could be expected to go. So that's a
good thing. Now you told us how you stopped watching
certain kinds of horror movies. Does that mean that you've
only sworn off watching werewolf movies or have you sworn
off watching of the kinds of horror movies now as well?
Speaker 1: There for a long time I could not watch any
type of werelf movie at all. I don't care on
how hokey the movie was. I just couldn't do it.
I just just couldn't do it. Just within the last month,
I started watching the movie The Howling, and normally that
one really bothered me because the structural of the werewolf
in that movie is pretty much what I saw on
the middle of the road kind of. I mean, it's
the closest one that I could relate to. But now
I'm starting to kind of get over that hump, but
you know, it's it's going to take more time. But yeah,
anything dealing with were wolves. I'm really into Halloween, so
it's like when a store has a werewolf anamatronic, I'm
usually going the other way, and you know, my kids
are laughing at me, and you know, thinking is you know,
it's going to come get you, and I don't think
that's funny, but you know, but yeah, yeah, just anything
dealing with lecanthethropes or were wolves or dog man. It
shook me for a long, long, long time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a bitter pill to go from being convinced
that we understand how everything in the world works to
suddenly realizing, guess what, there are definitely things out there
are big things out there with sharp teeth that we
don't know about. So I understand, I really do. You're
obviously compromise to this day by that encounter Therey Kevin,
but you still wound up going out on a field investigation.
How'd that go?
Speaker 1: Uh? That has yet to come along. I am still
trying to for the one that we for our scouting mission.
It was you know, this was before I even reached
out to you Vic, it was I was always you know,
looking over my shoulder, trying to pay attention to nature.
You know, I was kind of I was extremely jumpy.
I was nervous. It's just you know, I'm you know,
it's going to take a hot minute, you know, for
all of those years to decompress and be able to
rethink things like I should have since day one. But
it was like, you know, I was trying to, you know,
when I was seeing evidence, you know, I was trying
to stay calm and you know, be rational and not
just jump the gun and you know, just try to
point everything for dogmen, because we do live in Wyoming
and there are a bunch of other type of wildlife
lives here. But then again, when we did come across
some evidence that was kind of questionable, it was it
was still kind of it was definitely nerve wrecking. It
was like, you know, I'm just trying to still process
some of it, and it's just it's just like I
don't know, it was like you see certain things like
claw marks and trees and footprints and evidence of like
large carcasses being dragged in a certain way because drag
marks were still there. I in my head. I was
trying to, you know, SA say to myself, it's like, okay,
so this is probably you know, put it in denial.
This is not a dog, and this is something else.
I was trying to be realistic with it. But deep down,
you know, I'm at that point I was. I was
extremely cautious. I mean, I don't own guns or anything.
Most people do here in Wyoming, but I don't. So
I didn't even grab a large stick like I normally
used to do, and you know, holding on to a staff.
I just I stayed in a line of sight of
the other people that were with me, and you know,
I kept on continuously checking on other people. And but
I guess the best term of it is having these
things eyes upon you is just kind of always constantly
in my mind. I mean, at this point, I know
they don't want to like do bad things, because they
would have had ample opportunities to do so. But the
still that that fear of not knowing, the fear of misunderstanding,
was it was, it was still present.
Speaker 2: I'm surprised you went on that investigation. In retrospect, do
you think that was a good idea?
Speaker 1: Well, probably not at that point, but the bandit has
to come off eventually.
Speaker 2: Yeah, in your only good time. I just wondered if
that was a little too soon to rip that banded off,
But who knows. It's really hard to say who is
with you though.
Speaker 1: It was my son Wren, he's co host of my podcast,
my wife Vanessa, she's co host of my podcast. And
it was Brind's fiance that had this experience. So he
was kind of leading us in the direction of where
all of his events took place. But that was just
pretty much about it. The next time we're going to
go up we're gonna we're going to have maybe one
other person to come up there with us, and we're
going to be up there for three days, I think.
So we're calling it a camping trip. It's not a
snake it's a rope. It's a camping trip.
Speaker 2: Well, needless to say, I hope your camping trip goes well.
Speaker 1: You know, I hope so too, because in all honesty,
even if we do go up there, the chances of
us encountering anything of Dogman type is probably going to
be zero point zero one percent. I think they're going
to stay clear from us. They're not going to want
anything to do with this, it's just as long as
the respectful and we we understand and have that little
type of communication. You know, I think things are going
to be okay. But being in in the healthcare field,
having vacations is kind of a necessary thing. But this
was just kind of the thing that the dart landed
on when we threw it on the map.
Speaker 2: Well, that quote unquote camping trip might do you more
good than you expect. Hopefully it will. I guess time
will tell. But having said that, we're about out of
time before we get out of here, do you have
any clothes and comments you want to put out there
for us?
Speaker 1: Oh? Gosh, you know, I thought about this for a
long time and I can't come up with any words
of wisdom other than don't fear what you don't do,
not understand, try to understand it and embrace the knowledge
and be grateful that these encounters have happened.
Speaker 2: Well, those are good words. And also, one last thing
before we do get out of here, would you like
to plug your podcast? Asked one last time.
Speaker 1: Sure, it's called Nature's Darkest. It's on Spotify. I got
some on YouTube, but that was kind of the test
run of it. Many many years ago. I don't do
anything on YouTube partly anymore, unfortunately, but yeah, you can
find Nature's Darkest on Spotify.
Speaker 2: Well that makes it really easy. Kevin, I can't thank
you enough for coming on and tell us about those
experiences you had. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Well, I appreciate your time because it's your Like I
said when we were talking, you know, in personal person,
you know you're a godsend. You are. You know, even
with a person that has experienced in the parent ormal
and supernatural, we still need help, and youse are beyond
the help that a lot of people need, and your
services is priceless. They cannot put a price on it.
Speaker 2: Wow. Well, thank you so much for the kind words.
You really do give me too much credit though I'm
not nearly that special, but that is awfully nice of you. Nonetheless,
But having said that, Kevin, thanks again so much for
your time. I really do appreciate it. H have a
great night.