WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:03.439 Hello everybody, and welcome to another episode of Heart Shrews podcast. Today, 2 00:00:03.480 --> 00:00:06.679 I have a very special guest. His name is Jason Georgeohnny. 3 00:00:06.759 --> 00:00:09.759 He is an author and philosopher. Jason, thank you very 4 00:00:09.839 --> 00:00:11.359 much for being my guest on Heart Truth. How are 5 00:00:11.359 --> 00:00:11.880 you doing today? 6 00:00:12.320 --> 00:00:14.880 It's an absolute pleasure to be with you, Ashton, and 7 00:00:15.240 --> 00:00:17.559 I'm glad we finally got to meet. I've been following 8 00:00:17.559 --> 00:00:20.120 your work for a few what is it a couple 9 00:00:20.120 --> 00:00:24.199 of years now, Yeah, And let me just start off 10 00:00:24.239 --> 00:00:29.000 by thanking you for the incredible research that you've done. 11 00:00:29.359 --> 00:00:32.079 I'm sold on your case for the plane, so we'll see. 12 00:00:32.200 --> 00:00:35.399 I mean it looks like a pretty sound hypothesis to me. 13 00:00:35.840 --> 00:00:37.679 Well, this is gonna be a great crossover event that 14 00:00:37.719 --> 00:00:39.679 we got going on. So right off the bat, I 15 00:00:39.759 --> 00:00:42.600 want to know a little bit about your origin story 16 00:00:42.640 --> 00:00:44.479 and how you got involved in this. I first saw 17 00:00:44.560 --> 00:00:47.079 you on Danny Jones. I started looking at your research 18 00:00:47.119 --> 00:00:49.439 and your work. You started talking about zero point energy 19 00:00:49.439 --> 00:00:51.399 and that I always ring some bells for me because 20 00:00:51.439 --> 00:00:54.840 I consider myself influencer zero point energy. So how did 21 00:00:54.880 --> 00:00:58.159 you get involved in looking into all of this advanced technology, 22 00:00:58.359 --> 00:01:03.520 breakaway civilization stuff and you know the crossover the UFO community. 23 00:01:04.079 --> 00:01:06.319 Well, I came out with a book in twenty sixteen 24 00:01:06.799 --> 00:01:11.519 called Prometheus and Atlas, and it was an expansion of 25 00:01:11.560 --> 00:01:18.319 my doctoral dissertation about twice the length of the dissertation version, 26 00:01:19.000 --> 00:01:22.959 and it won the twenty sixteen Book Award of the 27 00:01:22.959 --> 00:01:30.359 Parapsychological Association. And I also joined the Society for Scientific 28 00:01:30.400 --> 00:01:34.680 Exploration in the same year as Prometheus anatlyss won the 29 00:01:34.719 --> 00:01:37.439 PA Book Award. So I began to make a number 30 00:01:37.439 --> 00:01:43.040 of connections in the parapsychology community, and interestingly enough, I 31 00:01:43.159 --> 00:01:46.359 found that, especially through the SSEC, that community overlapped a 32 00:01:46.359 --> 00:01:49.959 lot with the UFO community, which dovetails with zero point 33 00:01:50.040 --> 00:01:52.519 Energy research and so forth. I mean, there are people 34 00:01:52.640 --> 00:01:55.200 like you know how put off that have cross listed 35 00:01:55.239 --> 00:01:58.879 membership between these two organizations. By the way, let me 36 00:01:59.000 --> 00:02:02.400 ask you for a small ashton. I hate looking at 37 00:02:02.439 --> 00:02:06.400 myself on recordings, which is why I never do you know, 38 00:02:06.959 --> 00:02:10.960 individual podcasts, so so stay with me as much as 39 00:02:11.000 --> 00:02:14.439 you can, so I'm not left here, you know, looking 40 00:02:14.439 --> 00:02:19.680 at my own lug anyway. So you know, I began 41 00:02:19.719 --> 00:02:22.080 to make a lot of connections in that community, and 42 00:02:23.960 --> 00:02:27.879 at that time I was also doing shows with Jeffrey 43 00:02:27.960 --> 00:02:32.439 Misch Love on New Thinking Aloud, and he had a 44 00:02:32.439 --> 00:02:34.560 lot of other guests on that show that were part 45 00:02:34.599 --> 00:02:37.080 of the same community. So I started to meet people 46 00:02:37.120 --> 00:02:39.439 like Jacques Vallet, I mean, Jacques Valais reached out to me, 47 00:02:40.439 --> 00:02:43.039 I think within a few months of Prometheus and Atlas 48 00:02:43.039 --> 00:02:46.479 having come out. He read the book, invited me to 49 00:02:46.560 --> 00:02:48.439 his home. I had a very nice dinner with him 50 00:02:48.479 --> 00:02:55.319 and his then wife, second wife, and so so, you know, 51 00:02:55.319 --> 00:02:57.759 I started to make a lot of connections people in 52 00:02:57.800 --> 00:03:01.879 the remote viewing community, people in military and eleigence, and 53 00:03:01.960 --> 00:03:06.879 wound up at the nexus of what eventually would become 54 00:03:07.120 --> 00:03:13.199 the so called UFO disclosure movement. Except that at just 55 00:03:13.280 --> 00:03:17.919 the moment when you know, I was, you know, basically 56 00:03:18.280 --> 00:03:22.199 becoming the nexus of all these connections, and you know, 57 00:03:22.280 --> 00:03:27.120 a promising young theorist in this domain, I was defamed 58 00:03:27.159 --> 00:03:30.400 in in what I eventually found out was an intelligence operation. 59 00:03:31.199 --> 00:03:33.479 And I think the reason for that, which will come 60 00:03:33.520 --> 00:03:36.800 clearer as we you know, on packs discussion over time, 61 00:03:37.439 --> 00:03:41.439 is that the kinds of arguments that I advanced in 62 00:03:41.520 --> 00:03:45.199 my book on Close Encounters are are things that would 63 00:03:45.199 --> 00:03:48.800 have been severely disruptive to the type of narrative that 64 00:03:48.879 --> 00:03:53.439 the gatekeepers of UFO disclosure are forwarding today. 65 00:03:54.039 --> 00:03:57.000 So what do you think That's a great question, great segue, 66 00:03:57.039 --> 00:04:00.280 which is what what do you think the narrative they're 67 00:04:00.280 --> 00:04:03.159 trying to spread is, and what narrative do you think 68 00:04:03.159 --> 00:04:07.199 they're afraid of? And who do you think these people are, like, 69 00:04:07.280 --> 00:04:09.800 who are they connected to? What are your opinions of 70 00:04:09.840 --> 00:04:11.120 the UFO community as well? 71 00:04:13.479 --> 00:04:18.360 Look, it's actually very complex. So you know, one of 72 00:04:18.160 --> 00:04:21.639 the fallacies that a lot of people who engage in, 73 00:04:22.000 --> 00:04:27.439 you know, conspiracy theorizing fall prey to is the overly 74 00:04:27.519 --> 00:04:33.120 simplistic view that the deep state is monolithic. It's really not, 75 00:04:33.920 --> 00:04:37.240 maybe unfortunately not, because you know, there's a lot of 76 00:04:38.680 --> 00:04:45.040 really dangerous chaos at play behind the scenes. You I 77 00:04:45.040 --> 00:04:50.360 think had been interested in, you know, inquiring into who's 78 00:04:50.399 --> 00:04:56.519 behind this slow drip model for disclosure, And so let 79 00:04:56.600 --> 00:04:59.040 me start there. I think maybe you know best to 80 00:04:59.079 --> 00:05:03.319 flesh things out from there. I can tell you based 81 00:05:03.360 --> 00:05:09.920 on two individuals who worked with the former Director of 82 00:05:10.000 --> 00:05:13.240 National Intel. Well yeah, at this point, former Director of 83 00:05:13.319 --> 00:05:17.800 National Intelligence, Avril Haines, I can tell you, based on 84 00:05:17.839 --> 00:05:21.519 two different individuals one of whom is a CIA officer 85 00:05:22.000 --> 00:05:27.120 who worked with her as a colleague in UFO working 86 00:05:27.199 --> 00:05:31.879 group meetings UAP working group meetings roundtables basically, and from 87 00:05:31.920 --> 00:05:38.160 another individual who worked directly under her as a private 88 00:05:38.199 --> 00:05:42.079 contractor and who also had very high level contracts with 89 00:05:42.199 --> 00:05:46.000 the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency, which is the same organization 90 00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:49.000 that David Grush is coming from out of RIGHTA. So 91 00:05:49.040 --> 00:05:53.439 I have two independent points of confirmation about you know 92 00:05:53.600 --> 00:05:58.399 what the slow Drip disclosure agenda was, and it was 93 00:05:58.560 --> 00:06:01.600 an agenda being run from out of April Haines's office, 94 00:06:01.879 --> 00:06:05.639 apparently with her as the director of it. And the 95 00:06:05.720 --> 00:06:11.519 agenda was this, Okay. First of all, their priority was 96 00:06:11.560 --> 00:06:13.600 to make it as if the United to make it 97 00:06:13.639 --> 00:06:16.639 appear as if the United States government was not investigating 98 00:06:16.759 --> 00:06:19.800 UAPs in any serious way prior to, like, I don't know, 99 00:06:19.800 --> 00:06:23.279 fifteen twenty years ago, prior to the Nimtz incident and 100 00:06:23.319 --> 00:06:26.240 these videos of the TikTok and so forth that they released. Okay, 101 00:06:26.399 --> 00:06:29.199 So they wanted a clean slate approach where they're not 102 00:06:29.240 --> 00:06:31.680 going to be held legally accountable for anything that they 103 00:06:31.720 --> 00:06:34.240 had done in the preceding. I don't know what seventy 104 00:06:34.319 --> 00:06:37.120 years or more. Actually we'll get into the more because 105 00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:39.879 this goes actually back to the airships of eighteen ninety 106 00:06:39.920 --> 00:06:42.399 seven and so forth. But so that that was their 107 00:06:42.480 --> 00:06:44.839 number one priority make it look like everything started with 108 00:06:44.839 --> 00:06:51.319 the nimits and these types of incidents. And interestingly enough 109 00:06:51.360 --> 00:06:53.480 to first this was like a four or five phase 110 00:06:53.519 --> 00:06:56.240 plan that they have that was supposed to be unfolded 111 00:06:56.279 --> 00:06:58.920 over the course of something like fifteen to twenty years. 112 00:06:59.560 --> 00:07:03.519 And the first phase I was told was that they 113 00:07:03.560 --> 00:07:06.759 were going to use the James Web telescope, this new 114 00:07:06.839 --> 00:07:13.800 telescope that they have out there, to basically release to 115 00:07:13.839 --> 00:07:20.759 the public imagery of apparent artificial structures on distant bodies 116 00:07:20.839 --> 00:07:25.000 in our Solar system, so not necessarily planets, but maybe 117 00:07:25.279 --> 00:07:28.199 on the moons of Jupiter and the moons of Saturn. 118 00:07:28.639 --> 00:07:32.519 There were going to be structures that were unambiguously artificial, 119 00:07:33.199 --> 00:07:34.800 and that those were the first things that will be 120 00:07:34.839 --> 00:07:39.199 released to the public, because the idea was, Okay, well, 121 00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:41.759 these are far away, they don't present any imminent rep 122 00:07:41.800 --> 00:07:44.480 people are not going to panic. Then the next phase 123 00:07:44.560 --> 00:07:46.959 was that they'd identify structures on the moon, on our 124 00:07:46.959 --> 00:07:52.240 own moon, and on Mars that are artificial. And the 125 00:07:52.279 --> 00:07:55.279 third phase was that they were going to try to 126 00:07:55.319 --> 00:07:58.759 connect these structures on the Moon and Mars to anomalous 127 00:07:58.800 --> 00:08:03.800 archaeological sites on Earth, wow, like for example, the Osyrian 128 00:08:03.839 --> 00:08:10.040 at Abydos in Egypt or Tiajuanaku in Bolivia, and they 129 00:08:10.040 --> 00:08:13.360 were going to note structural similarities between some of these sites, like, 130 00:08:13.399 --> 00:08:16.720 for example, it appears that the site on the Dark 131 00:08:16.759 --> 00:08:22.160 Side of the Moon involves a construction technique with something 132 00:08:22.319 --> 00:08:26.399 like a poured stone, like a kind of as if 133 00:08:26.439 --> 00:08:28.959 you could, you know, subject stone to some kind of 134 00:08:29.040 --> 00:08:31.560 chemical compound that would liquefy it and turn it into 135 00:08:31.600 --> 00:08:34.399 something like concrete, where then you could shape the stone, 136 00:08:34.679 --> 00:08:36.799 or maybe some kind of a sonic resonance could be 137 00:08:36.879 --> 00:08:40.960 used to molecularly destabilize the stone and then shape it. 138 00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:43.600 And that they were going to note that the same 139 00:08:43.679 --> 00:08:46.840 kind of construction techniques had been employed on these sites 140 00:08:46.879 --> 00:08:50.600 on Earth, so maybe there's a common builder. Then the 141 00:08:50.600 --> 00:08:53.720 fourth phase and so now we're like ten years out 142 00:08:53.759 --> 00:08:57.320 in their plan of slow disclosure. The fourth phase was 143 00:08:57.360 --> 00:09:03.320 going to be anthropologie that they were going to excavate 144 00:09:03.559 --> 00:09:09.279 remains of humanoids who they believed were responsible for these 145 00:09:09.360 --> 00:09:15.360 engineering anomalies on the moon Mars, other moons in the 146 00:09:15.360 --> 00:09:19.440 Solar System, and also for anomalous sites on Earth, and 147 00:09:19.480 --> 00:09:21.519 that these were going to be these very tall people, 148 00:09:21.919 --> 00:09:23.559 you know, who were referred to as I don't know, 149 00:09:23.639 --> 00:09:28.360 nephilem and giants and so forth, and various mythological traditions, 150 00:09:29.200 --> 00:09:31.120 and then they were going to do DNA testing on 151 00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:31.759 these people. 152 00:09:32.799 --> 00:09:34.360 And this was all. 153 00:09:34.120 --> 00:09:38.799 Step by step, slowly going to lead to the disclosure 154 00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:43.639 of these people themselves as the pilots of UAPs. 155 00:09:43.679 --> 00:09:45.519 Interesting, that was the original. 156 00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:48.679 Now here's the interesting thing, Ashton, is when David Gresh 157 00:09:48.720 --> 00:09:50.639 came out, and this speaks to the you know, deep 158 00:09:50.639 --> 00:09:53.799 state not being a monolith. When David Gresh came out 159 00:09:54.120 --> 00:10:02.240 with his leaks, quote unquote, these people were incensed. They 160 00:10:02.240 --> 00:10:04.679 had no idea what was going to happen. They did 161 00:10:04.720 --> 00:10:07.159 not authorize him to be saying the things he was saying, 162 00:10:08.320 --> 00:10:11.639 and mainly they were so outraged because he was directly 163 00:10:11.679 --> 00:10:14.519 implicating the United States government cover up on all kinds 164 00:10:14.519 --> 00:10:16.559 of levels, from the you know, cover up of the 165 00:10:16.559 --> 00:10:21.000 technology and reverse engineering efforts to cover up of biological 166 00:10:21.159 --> 00:10:23.279 entities and so on and so forth, and so he 167 00:10:23.399 --> 00:10:27.720 basically threw a monkey wrench in their phased disclosure plan. 168 00:10:28.600 --> 00:10:31.120 And what that immediately says to me is there we're 169 00:10:31.159 --> 00:10:35.240 dealing with at least two factions, because you know, Grush 170 00:10:35.320 --> 00:10:39.039 is not a Whistleblowerrush was an hunt man for people 171 00:10:39.080 --> 00:10:42.519 within defense intelligence who have their own agenda of what 172 00:10:42.639 --> 00:10:45.159 should be released when. So here we've got at least 173 00:10:45.159 --> 00:10:47.960 two different competing agendas, and then we can get into 174 00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:50.679 why I think there's a third and maybe even a 175 00:10:50.720 --> 00:10:52.039 fourth agenda as well. 176 00:10:52.440 --> 00:10:54.399 So yeah, let me address some of those claims. Is 177 00:10:54.639 --> 00:10:56.240 I love what you're saying. The first of all, Avril 178 00:10:56.279 --> 00:10:59.000 heinz Abralhyines obviously said her last name. People should probably 179 00:10:59.000 --> 00:11:03.320 be saying her name more often. Technically current Director of 180 00:11:03.399 --> 00:11:07.080 National Intelligence, Director of National Intelligence, really big role, Really 181 00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:10.279 glad Tulsea Gabbard's gonna get in there somebody who has 182 00:11:10.679 --> 00:11:13.720 probably no insight is what's really going on behind the scenes. 183 00:11:13.759 --> 00:11:17.519 And I'm very curious to see how her public persona 184 00:11:17.639 --> 00:11:20.320 changes after she gets in and gets exposed to some 185 00:11:20.399 --> 00:11:23.480 of this, because, like what you said about the factions, 186 00:11:23.519 --> 00:11:26.480 I totally agree. The joke that I've been making on 187 00:11:26.519 --> 00:11:28.639 podcasts is that I think there's at least two factions. 188 00:11:28.919 --> 00:11:30.919 One that doesn't want any of this stuff to come 189 00:11:30.919 --> 00:11:33.279 out because they think that maybe it's too dangerous or 190 00:11:33.320 --> 00:11:35.600 they want the power or what have you. And then 191 00:11:35.600 --> 00:11:37.799 there's another one that wants like a little bit of 192 00:11:37.799 --> 00:11:39.480 it to come out, but they don't want all of 193 00:11:39.600 --> 00:11:41.519 Nobody wants like all of it to come out a 194 00:11:41.600 --> 00:11:45.360 catastrophic disclosure, at least how I've looked at it. So 195 00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:47.799 what you said about David Grush makes a lot of 196 00:11:47.840 --> 00:11:50.519 sense as well, is that there's another faction going, hey, 197 00:11:50.600 --> 00:11:52.639 you you need to go out there and go start 198 00:11:52.639 --> 00:11:55.840 telling people that, Like we've got these videos of UFOs 199 00:11:55.879 --> 00:12:00.519 and it's pretty clearly exotic technology. It's not airplane flying 200 00:12:00.559 --> 00:12:03.600 around with conventional means and things like that and talking 201 00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:08.080 about alien bodies and what have you. So what then 202 00:12:08.120 --> 00:12:12.679 do you think about, like, you know, who's on what side? Right? 203 00:12:12.759 --> 00:12:16.000 Like when I'm looking at the UFO community, I personally 204 00:12:16.039 --> 00:12:17.480 feel like a lot of the people I see at 205 00:12:17.519 --> 00:12:19.960 the UFO community, the front runners, the ones that are 206 00:12:19.960 --> 00:12:24.120 on mainstream shows like the Luella Zondo's, the Jeremy Corbels, 207 00:12:25.080 --> 00:12:28.240 the George Knaps that are out there their whole crew. 208 00:12:28.360 --> 00:12:30.440 They all talk to each other. It is very obvious 209 00:12:30.519 --> 00:12:32.919 that they do, and they communicate with one another. The 210 00:12:32.960 --> 00:12:36.399 impression I get from them is that they have decided 211 00:12:36.399 --> 00:12:40.559 they're going to protect national security by not revealing the 212 00:12:40.639 --> 00:12:43.919 technology or any technology that would put the United States 213 00:12:43.919 --> 00:12:47.519 at a disadvantage relative to other countries that like, you know, 214 00:12:47.559 --> 00:12:50.440 maybe we're reverse engineering this UFO technology. We've got this 215 00:12:51.279 --> 00:12:54.679 either free energy or super advanced super weapons, and they're 216 00:12:54.720 --> 00:12:56.360 going that, we're not gonna talk about that, so instead 217 00:12:56.399 --> 00:12:59.360 we're just gonna talk about the alien aspect of it. 218 00:13:00.120 --> 00:13:04.279 On the other side, I see people like doctor Stephen Greer, 219 00:13:04.600 --> 00:13:08.159 who talks a ton about the technology. He still talks 220 00:13:08.159 --> 00:13:10.279 about the alien side of it as well, but really 221 00:13:10.440 --> 00:13:12.679 talks to the Black Project engineers and is like, Hey, 222 00:13:13.159 --> 00:13:15.679 these guys are telling you we've got this exotic technology 223 00:13:15.679 --> 00:13:19.080 out there and we've figured it out. How do you 224 00:13:19.320 --> 00:13:22.759 see all these people and which ones do you trust 225 00:13:22.879 --> 00:13:25.279 or not trust? Oh? 226 00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:30.799 Man, I don't trust any of them. Good, I don't 227 00:13:30.799 --> 00:13:34.159 trust any of them. Okay. Look, going back to Grush, 228 00:13:34.600 --> 00:13:41.159 I think that the higher ranking individuals who authorized Grush 229 00:13:41.559 --> 00:13:48.799 to act as a frontman for the highly selective disclosure 230 00:13:48.840 --> 00:13:53.440 of certain information are defectors from the organization, which at 231 00:13:53.440 --> 00:13:56.639 one point may have been called MJ twelve, if it 232 00:13:56.759 --> 00:13:59.840 was actually called that, and the MJ twelve documents that 233 00:13:59.840 --> 00:14:05.080 were leaked aren't forgeries if the organization certainly isn't called 234 00:14:05.120 --> 00:14:10.240 that anymore. And in any case, that organization was privatized, 235 00:14:10.279 --> 00:14:13.480 it was taken from you know, a government agencies into 236 00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:20.120 private aerospace by the nineteen seventies at the latest. But 237 00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:23.440 I think that the gentlemen who authorized Grush to come 238 00:14:23.480 --> 00:14:27.559 forward are defectors from that organization. Wow, so you have 239 00:14:27.639 --> 00:14:32.159 this kind of MJ twelve turned you know, private corporate 240 00:14:32.200 --> 00:14:36.759 aerospace cabal, and there are what you might call old 241 00:14:36.840 --> 00:14:40.480 guard individuals in that organization who don't want any of 242 00:14:40.480 --> 00:14:42.200 this release. They want to keep it secret for as 243 00:14:42.240 --> 00:14:44.639 long as they possibly can. They want a monopoly on 244 00:14:44.679 --> 00:14:48.320 the technology. And there's an argument to be made that 245 00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:53.399 if they haven't already branched often become a breakaway civilization, 246 00:14:53.480 --> 00:14:56.600 they're in the process of doing so. And then you 247 00:14:56.679 --> 00:15:00.440 have defectors from that organization, people who and it's been 248 00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:02.639 explained to me that perhaps part of this is a 249 00:15:02.679 --> 00:15:06.279 generational shift, and that it's some of the younger people 250 00:15:06.600 --> 00:15:08.759 who are behind Grush, who are sort of breaking with 251 00:15:08.799 --> 00:15:11.759 the old Guard. But in any case, those are two 252 00:15:11.759 --> 00:15:14.120 factions of you know what at one point was called 253 00:15:14.240 --> 00:15:18.080 MJ twelve. I think that there's a fourth group. So 254 00:15:18.120 --> 00:15:21.039 we've talked about, you know, the Abril Haynes slow drip people, 255 00:15:21.879 --> 00:15:25.799 then Grush, who represents the defectors in MJ twelve, then 256 00:15:25.840 --> 00:15:29.120 the old Guard of MJ twelve. I think there's also 257 00:15:29.159 --> 00:15:32.320 a fourth group, which we can you know, unpack in 258 00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:35.360 more details. As you know, we move along with the conversation. 259 00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:40.960 But that fourth group are individuals who are informally referred 260 00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:46.320 to as the Collins Elite. And these are evangelical or 261 00:15:46.559 --> 00:15:49.960 traditionalist Christians. They may be Evangelical Protestants, they may be 262 00:15:50.039 --> 00:15:56.240 traditionalist Catholics who are in the CIA, Air Force, Naval Intelligence, 263 00:15:56.720 --> 00:16:01.679 other branches of defense intelligence, and in their capacity as 264 00:16:01.720 --> 00:16:07.960 private individuals beginning in the nineteen at least since the 265 00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:10.840 nineteen forties, in the era of Jack Parsons, quite possibly 266 00:16:10.879 --> 00:16:13.000 long before then, and I've made the case that they 267 00:16:13.000 --> 00:16:16.039 may go back to the airship mystery of the eighteen 268 00:16:16.080 --> 00:16:22.519 ninety six eighteen ninety seven. This private group of devout 269 00:16:22.879 --> 00:16:28.159 Christians has come to the conclusion that somehow the UFO 270 00:16:28.240 --> 00:16:32.840 phenomenon is inextricable from the occult and that probably it 271 00:16:32.919 --> 00:16:36.320 represents a demonic force that needs to be held at bay. 272 00:16:36.879 --> 00:16:41.840 And so they see the secrecy as basically a stop 273 00:16:41.919 --> 00:16:46.440 gap keeping the apocalypse at day. And so we also 274 00:16:46.519 --> 00:16:50.080 have these nut cases, you know, in the government various time. 275 00:16:50.120 --> 00:16:52.960 I mean, you know, I would have said it's naughty 276 00:16:53.000 --> 00:16:54.879 a couple of years ago. But the more I think 277 00:16:54.919 --> 00:16:57.000 about the implications of the technology and I want to 278 00:16:57.000 --> 00:16:59.960 talk about that, like the latter half of this podcast, 279 00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:02.159 more I think, Man, it's not that crazy to think 280 00:17:02.159 --> 00:17:04.240 this technology could lead to the apocalypse. 281 00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:06.880 No, a lot of it's true. The way that Peter Thiel, 282 00:17:07.079 --> 00:17:10.359 you know, framed it is actually thought provoking, and we 283 00:17:10.400 --> 00:17:11.160 can come back to that. 284 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:13.079 Yeah, you know, let's talk about that right now, just 285 00:17:13.079 --> 00:17:15.079 because we brought it up because I wanted to ask you. 286 00:17:15.160 --> 00:17:16.759 This was one of the things I was watching another 287 00:17:16.799 --> 00:17:19.559 podcast that you did. It kind of blew me away, 288 00:17:19.599 --> 00:17:22.599 where you were talking about the technology and you explained, like, 289 00:17:24.480 --> 00:17:26.720 what if this technology is so powerful that you either 290 00:17:26.759 --> 00:17:31.000 have to be like fully altruistic collectivist society or you 291 00:17:31.079 --> 00:17:34.400 have to be like a fascist or like what a 292 00:17:34.440 --> 00:17:39.440 collectivist fascist, a totalitarian society or a perfectly altruistic freedom 293 00:17:39.480 --> 00:17:42.000 society that you would never harm another thing. And you go, well, 294 00:17:42.119 --> 00:17:45.039 humans are never going to be perfectly altruistic. There's no 295 00:17:45.160 --> 00:17:47.880 chance on that. And I heard Peter thal say this, 296 00:17:48.039 --> 00:17:50.279 I think you said it before him when he went 297 00:17:50.279 --> 00:17:52.160 on Ji Rogan, He goes, what if they have to 298 00:17:52.200 --> 00:17:55.599 be all angels are all demons? That thought terrifies me 299 00:17:55.759 --> 00:17:59.920 because it's so different than how we've structured our society currently, 300 00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:02.720 and I think most freedom of love in Americas, I'm 301 00:18:02.759 --> 00:18:06.720 a libertarian, look at that idea and go, this is outlandish. 302 00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:11.720 And it presents a pretty complicated dilemma, which is would 303 00:18:11.799 --> 00:18:14.240 we want this technology if it meant that we have 304 00:18:14.400 --> 00:18:17.759 to do away with individual freedoms to prevent us from 305 00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:21.559 destroying ourselves. So, first of all, did you talk to 306 00:18:21.599 --> 00:18:23.799 Peter Thiel or are you in contact with him? How 307 00:18:23.799 --> 00:18:26.839 do you guys both have the same view? And can 308 00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:29.200 you expand upon your thoughts around that. 309 00:18:30.279 --> 00:18:33.559 I've never spoken to him, I know people who know him. 310 00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:37.160 I've known more than one individual who's been in touch 311 00:18:37.160 --> 00:18:42.920 with him. How do we share the same view. Well, unfortunately, 312 00:18:43.039 --> 00:18:46.359 it's a view that I think any thoughtful person who 313 00:18:46.440 --> 00:18:50.920 spent a long time contemplating the various dimensions of this 314 00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:57.079 phenomenon and the implications of reverse engineering its technology would 315 00:18:57.279 --> 00:19:02.720 come to this conclusion. So, look, there are at least 316 00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:10.519 two serious issues here. One is the security implications of 317 00:19:10.599 --> 00:19:17.759 the propulsion system, right, because and even there there are two, 318 00:19:17.960 --> 00:19:22.640 there are at least two separate sub issues. So one 319 00:19:22.680 --> 00:19:25.880 of them is this that I mean, Look, if you 320 00:19:25.960 --> 00:19:30.480 look throughout the course of history at various forms of combustion, 321 00:19:31.599 --> 00:19:40.359 from gunpowder to you know, gas driven combustion, to conventional explosives, 322 00:19:40.440 --> 00:19:46.960 to then nuclear weapons as an application of nuclear energy, 323 00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:50.640 of nuclear fusion and fission, it is the case that 324 00:19:51.400 --> 00:19:57.160 every time we've scaled up our magnitude of energy usage 325 00:19:57.240 --> 00:20:01.359 and harnessing of a new magnitude of energy, we've also 326 00:20:01.920 --> 00:20:07.480 developed weaponry that's commensurately higher in order of magnitude of 327 00:20:07.480 --> 00:20:10.960 its destructive potential. Right, I mean, this is a very 328 00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:15.680 clear trend in human history. So the question is, you know, 329 00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:19.480 is there a kind of weapon that would be an 330 00:20:19.599 --> 00:20:24.279 order of magnitude more destructive than nuclear weapons? And that 331 00:20:24.359 --> 00:20:29.119 would be a dual use, you know, military application of 332 00:20:29.160 --> 00:20:33.039 what you might call a free energy system, right, and 333 00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:36.079 clearly the answer is yes. I mean, if you look 334 00:20:36.119 --> 00:20:40.720 at what it is that's propelling these UFOs or UAPs, 335 00:20:41.640 --> 00:20:45.039 it is a kind of energy and propulsion platform that 336 00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:48.119 could be weaponized into something that would make a nuclear 337 00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:51.559 bomb look like a firecracker. How put Off has gone 338 00:20:51.559 --> 00:20:56.279 on record saying and he's quoted to this effect and 339 00:20:56.519 --> 00:21:01.519 Nick Cook's excellent book The Hunter for Zero Point, so 340 00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:06.559 put Off said that he thought a coffee cups worth 341 00:21:07.160 --> 00:21:11.839 of the exactly a coffee cups worth of the you 342 00:21:11.880 --> 00:21:18.559 could say, propellant for this craft would potentially vaporize the 343 00:21:18.559 --> 00:21:22.039 oceans of Earth if its energy were to be released 344 00:21:22.039 --> 00:21:24.839 in an uncontrollable cascade. So as you think of a 345 00:21:24.920 --> 00:21:29.000 nuclear reactor, right, I mean, a nuclear reactor releases nuclear 346 00:21:29.079 --> 00:21:33.680 energy in a highly controlled manner. A nuclear bomb is 347 00:21:33.720 --> 00:21:38.079 a sort of runaway, you know, a cascade of this energy, 348 00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:40.880 and you could do the same thing with zero point 349 00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:43.960 energy to produce a bomb that would be many orders 350 00:21:43.960 --> 00:21:47.839 of magnitude more destructive than a nuclear weapon. So that's 351 00:21:47.920 --> 00:21:51.440 one problem from a security standpoint. There's an even bigger 352 00:21:51.480 --> 00:21:53.920 problem from a security standpoint, which is that as soon 353 00:21:53.920 --> 00:21:56.720 as they started to research these things, and you know, 354 00:21:56.799 --> 00:22:00.480 there's good evidence in our that in our country that 355 00:22:00.599 --> 00:22:05.480 began in the nineteen fifties. There are all these mainstream 356 00:22:05.559 --> 00:22:11.359 newspaper reports in the New York Herald Tribune and other publications, 357 00:22:12.200 --> 00:22:15.480 I think some arrow some aeronautical journals at the time 358 00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:22.759 as well, quoting CEOs of Martin Aircraft in particular Lear 359 00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:27.519 Con there and other companies, saying that they were working 360 00:22:27.519 --> 00:22:32.920 on anti gravity propulsion and that within about the same 361 00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:35.880 time span as the Manhattan Project they would be able 362 00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:38.319 to roll these craft off the assembly line. This was 363 00:22:38.359 --> 00:22:43.440 in the mid nineteen fifties in mainstream publications, and the 364 00:22:43.480 --> 00:22:47.319 whole thing goes dark round about nineteen fifty seven or so. 365 00:22:47.480 --> 00:22:51.160 We never hear about this again. And I think it's 366 00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:54.680 because what these gentlemen discovered, or what was explained to 367 00:22:54.720 --> 00:22:58.240 them by people who already had a grasp on this technology, 368 00:22:58.480 --> 00:23:00.960 is that it's not simply a propulse system that can 369 00:23:01.000 --> 00:23:04.079 get you from New York to Australia in you know, 370 00:23:04.400 --> 00:23:10.200 whatever an hour or whatever. It warps space time. And 371 00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:13.440 you know, the first people to observe this were actually 372 00:23:13.559 --> 00:23:19.319 the the the scientists working in an SS think tank 373 00:23:19.400 --> 00:23:24.079 based in Prague in nineteen forty three forty four, toward 374 00:23:24.119 --> 00:23:27.880 the end of the war, where they constructed this that 375 00:23:28.359 --> 00:23:33.519 dozen foot tall device, accorn shaped or bell shaped device 376 00:23:34.079 --> 00:23:38.680 that had magnetically counter rotating cylinders. 377 00:23:39.160 --> 00:23:42.640 Is that or is that something different to the bell? 378 00:23:43.799 --> 00:23:50.400 It was a device that was that contained inside a ceramic, 379 00:23:50.599 --> 00:23:56.599 non reactive material. It contained counter rotating cylinders of a 380 00:23:56.680 --> 00:24:05.160 mercury thorium isotope that were being magnetically rotated with high 381 00:24:05.319 --> 00:24:10.720 energy with constant alternating current pumped into it and intermittent 382 00:24:10.720 --> 00:24:14.920 shocks of direct current. And what they found was, first 383 00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:18.559 of all, it created an anti gravitic effect. Okay, it 384 00:24:18.599 --> 00:24:24.920 had counterbarry this this electromagnetic system shocking this mercury thorium 385 00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:28.160 isotope led to anti gravity, so that they had to 386 00:24:28.240 --> 00:24:30.759 chain the bell down so that it wouldn't you know, 387 00:24:32.720 --> 00:24:36.559 you know, so they wouldn't lose billions, you know, billions 388 00:24:36.559 --> 00:24:40.200 of dollars of hardware. But the other thing that they 389 00:24:40.240 --> 00:24:44.880 realized was it warped space time around the bell, and 390 00:24:45.319 --> 00:24:47.160 it did that in ways that you know, I mean, 391 00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:52.640 basically made plants turn to mulch it disrupted organisms on 392 00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:56.400 a cellular molecular level because of the way in which 393 00:24:56.440 --> 00:24:59.920 it warped space time. And so this was known our 394 00:25:00.079 --> 00:25:05.079 ready and you know by the by the SS toward 395 00:25:05.160 --> 00:25:07.400 the end of the war, and then we appropriated all 396 00:25:07.440 --> 00:25:10.839 of that information as the Allied Powers basically seized these 397 00:25:10.839 --> 00:25:13.880 facilities in Europe in nineteen forty five, so that by 398 00:25:13.920 --> 00:25:17.960 the time Martin Aircraft, which became then Lockheed Martin, was 399 00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:20.119 working on the same thing in the mid nineteen fifties. 400 00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:23.519 I think it was explained to them that listen, jackasses, 401 00:25:23.640 --> 00:25:25.799