Speaker 1: Good morning, good morning, good morning. Welcome, welcome, welcome. It
Speaker 1: is time nown for city matters right here on okay,
Speaker 1: one the one you trust, and we have a city
Speaker 1: councilor Tim Shrick here with is today and returning for
Speaker 1: I guess twice now as a counselor three times altogether,
Speaker 1: but something like that. But my goodness, sakes, nice weather,
Speaker 1: we don't have the fires like we had on Friday,
Speaker 1: by golly, hats off to the Bartlespiel Fire Department. No
Speaker 1: buildings were burned. We did have thirty fires though.
Speaker 2: They do a great job, and we're so appreciative of
Speaker 2: all that they commit to the community and the sacrifice
Speaker 2: that they make to keep us safe.
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. Now, Tim, we've got a couple of
Speaker 1: things going on here. First, we've got a workshop coming out.
Speaker 1: What is that we do?
Speaker 3: So coming up.
Speaker 2: Just after this next weekend, we'll have a workshop. It's
Speaker 2: going to be focused on the next strategic plan. Okay,
Speaker 2: So that's basically time for the counselors to come together
Speaker 2: and talk about what their vision is for Bartlesville going forward,
Speaker 2: what we want to see accomplished, how we intend to
Speaker 2: achieve it so that we can submit that and then
Speaker 2: it will all kind of be brought together, coalesced, and
Speaker 2: put into a document that will vote on in a
Speaker 2: future council session.
Speaker 1: So what kind of things are we looking at? We're
Speaker 1: looking at infrastructure, thing, quality of life, things, just about anything.
Speaker 1: Bartles Will all of the above.
Speaker 2: Really, as I understand that, the next strategic plan is
Speaker 2: how we intend to move forward, and part of that
Speaker 2: feeds into the Endeavor twenty forty five. So we want
Speaker 2: to see certain things accomplished in Bartlesville.
Speaker 3: We'll talk about our vision for.
Speaker 2: That, how we as individual counselors see that happening, how
Speaker 2: we feel like our constituency is expressing to us that
Speaker 2: they would like.
Speaker 3: To see that happen. If there's any specific.
Speaker 2: Issue that is raised, and we always urge that, call
Speaker 2: your council member, Email your council member, let them know
Speaker 2: what you feel like is important so we can carry
Speaker 2: that forward into the council chamber.
Speaker 1: Counselor, Tim Shirk, what are you hearing so far?
Speaker 3: What I'm hearing is just a few little things so far.
Speaker 2: People are concerned, for example, about tornado sirens that might
Speaker 2: need to be replaced sooner rather than later. They feel
Speaker 2: like that might pose a significant public safety risk, and
Speaker 2: so things like that are primarily what we're hearing so far.
Speaker 1: Public safety stuff.
Speaker 3: Public safety. Most people, I.
Speaker 2: Think are pretty happy with the amenities that have been
Speaker 2: established already, probably don't need to spend a lot of
Speaker 2: time looking at those. Some people actually have complained to
Speaker 2: me that they feel like there are too many amenities
Speaker 2: and not much attention, not as much attention to detail
Speaker 2: given to public safety.
Speaker 1: And you know, that's something that's going to be in
Speaker 1: the eye of the beholder everywhere you go. And I
Speaker 1: understand that it's like, wow, we're doing but what about
Speaker 1: that tornado siren? I get that, I really do. So
Speaker 1: it's going to be interesting to see what manifests from this.
Speaker 2: Absolutely we're all, you know, we have two incumbents who've
Speaker 2: done things like this before, and from what I understand,
Speaker 2: the framework was established by the previous council, but they
Speaker 2: paused once the election happened and they knew that they
Speaker 2: had a sixty percent turnover, so that we could come
Speaker 2: in with the ideas that we're hearing from our constituency
Speaker 2: to hopefully carry that change into the next phase.
Speaker 1: Very good flock cameras have been a big thing that's
Speaker 1: been coming up. We had a recent workshop on that,
Speaker 1: no decision made. I understand.
Speaker 2: No, we at workshops, you know, the one coming up
Speaker 2: and the one that we've already had are not times
Speaker 2: to vote. They're basically times for input and discussion. We
Speaker 2: don't vote on any business or how we're going to proceed.
Speaker 2: We might say we need more information, we might request
Speaker 2: that certain pieces of it be researched.
Speaker 3: But yeah, we don't vote workshops.
Speaker 1: Okay, But with the flock camera where there was a
Speaker 1: lot of there was a lot of discussion, a lot
Speaker 1: of debate.
Speaker 2: Correct, It's a very contentious issue generally, there have been
Speaker 2: debates all the way up to the state level.
Speaker 3: We very much appreciate.
Speaker 2: Representative Tom Gann from Iola coming to Bartlesville and putting
Speaker 2: on a workshop.
Speaker 3: For us, yes last February, right February.
Speaker 2: Sixth, giving us the other side of the coin, if
Speaker 2: you will. I think that there are some serious concerns
Speaker 2: that are around the flock camera systems.
Speaker 3: We definitely want to pay attention to those.
Speaker 2: I don't think anyone wants to live in an our
Speaker 2: welly and surveillance state. We understand that there were some
Speaker 2: arguments made. But this is one of the things and
Speaker 2: we try to even teach our kids at home, and
Speaker 2: I think it's important that we do that, that logical
Speaker 2: fallacies are important, and when you argue from a position
Speaker 2: of appealing to emotion rather than bringing.
Speaker 3: Facts, that is a logical fallacy.
Speaker 2: So if I came to you Tom and I said,
Speaker 2: you know, here's this heart wrenching story about something that
Speaker 2: was done as a direct result of this system, I'm
Speaker 2: appealing to your motion. I'm not telling you this might
Speaker 2: encroach upon your personal freedoms.
Speaker 3: This might violate your fourth and fourteenth Amendment rights.
Speaker 2: This might violate Oklahoma Title forty seven, and frankly, we
Speaker 2: believe Flock does all of those things.
Speaker 3: So at least a portion of us.
Speaker 2: Now, I've been questioned over what I mean when I
Speaker 2: say we before, so let me clarify that being I,
Speaker 2: myself and the people that I'm having personal conversations with,
Speaker 2: believe that this poses a serious risk to personal liberties.
Speaker 1: Now I'm good play Devil's advocate. Here. You go into
Speaker 1: any store, not any, but most there's a surveillance camera.
Speaker 1: It's tracking you from the parking lot into the door.
Speaker 1: You've been times up and down the aisle. Is that
Speaker 1: an infringement or is that just protection since it's private property.
Speaker 2: Those are on a closed system, inaccessible to anyone except
Speaker 2: the store security people.
Speaker 3: Unless you have a warrant.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 2: And they also provide for your Fourteenth Amendment due process
Speaker 2: rights by having signs posted. You know, some of them
Speaker 2: are even a little bit facetious. You know, smile, you're
Speaker 2: on camera, you know.
Speaker 1: So it is there.
Speaker 3: It's there, but your warning is there.
Speaker 2: Then you make a decision as to whether or not
Speaker 2: you walk in the store and shop there, or if
Speaker 2: you park on that parking lot. And those are the
Speaker 2: kinds of things that you should be able to do.
Speaker 2: You can decide. When you put up cameras all around
Speaker 2: your city, you create a surveillance net that monitors your
Speaker 2: people as a pre gathering of evidence for crimes that
Speaker 2: may not be committed. And what was very interesting to
Speaker 2: me was some footage that is now available on YouTube
Speaker 2: from body of ard More police officers. They were obtained
Speaker 2: by a Freedom of Information Act request and you clearly
Speaker 2: see the ard More policeman questioning someone in his vehicle
Speaker 2: from information brought up from flock on his laptop about
Speaker 2: data that goes back at least ninety days, which flies
Speaker 2: in the face of their contention that it's only maintained
Speaker 2: for thirty days. I don't know why we're relying on
Speaker 2: anybody but Flock, who's trying to sell us the system
Speaker 2: for the information about what their stuff can do.
Speaker 3: Either.
Speaker 2: The vision of the founder of Flock is a crime
Speaker 2: free society with a camera on every corner, and it
Speaker 2: says so right on their website. I don't think anybody
Speaker 2: wants that. I think you want a crime free society.
Speaker 2: I think they do too, But I think we need
Speaker 2: to look at what we can do to better support
Speaker 2: our boys in blue. We need to back the blue.
Speaker 2: We don't need to black back the cameras. Okay, you know,
Speaker 2: and these are also called a force multiplier. So anybody
Speaker 2: who understands what that means, especially if you've ever been
Speaker 2: through a layoff, mean you know, you should be nervous
Speaker 2: that they're going to put in more cameras and not
Speaker 2: more policemen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, automation, it's played. It's played in this business at
Speaker 1: what you're talking.
Speaker 2: About, And as generative AI and other things become more powerful,
Speaker 2: the system could be expanded to include facial recognition it.
Speaker 1: We have that already in some places we.
Speaker 3: Do have and that's one of the concerns.
Speaker 2: The higher government agencies with which this data is shared
Speaker 2: do have those things, and there's no guarantees. See, there's
Speaker 2: no universal guardrails around this that says that if it
Speaker 2: doesn't receive a hit on an nc ICY hot list,
Speaker 2: that it will be deleted within three minutes. They're saying
Speaker 2: locally thirty days. Well, we don't know what might happen
Speaker 2: in other venues. We do know that Tulsa has over
Speaker 2: two hundred cameras and that they won't even disclose the
Speaker 2: location of them, and that they also have a live
Speaker 2: crime center where they're watching these feeds in real time.
Speaker 2: That's not something I think Bartlesville has expressed a desire for.
Speaker 2: I think we probably should have had community engagement early on,
Speaker 2: rather than watching all these things bubble up here after
Speaker 2: we've already got stuff that would have to be undone.
Speaker 2: But in our workshop session we did agree as a
Speaker 2: council to move this to a vote of the people. Now,
Speaker 2: what I'm hearing today is that there's an opinion that
Speaker 2: says we can't do that. Because it would be a
Speaker 2: strictly advisory opinion of the people that was said by
Speaker 2: our city attorney in an open meeting. What could be done, though,
Speaker 2: as I read the law and as I'm having other conversations,
Speaker 2: is that we could pass a resolution to issue an
Speaker 2: ordinance that would amand the city Charter, and any amendment
Speaker 2: to the city Charter would call for a vote of
Speaker 2: the people. So I think that there is a way
Speaker 2: forward for the Council to do it. I'm still ex
Speaker 2: floring that, and I will continue to explore that.
Speaker 1: It sounds like it may entail from heavy lifting.
Speaker 2: There might be a bigger lift on this issue. But
Speaker 2: you know what, as I've said before, the people's voice
Speaker 2: needs to be the very loudest one in the room.
Speaker 2: And that's my job. I was elected by the people
Speaker 2: to carry their voice in there, not to argue for
Speaker 2: my preference or opinions.
Speaker 3: But when people come to me and say, what are
Speaker 3: we going to do about this?
Speaker 2: This is a clear violation of Title forty seven, I
Speaker 2: have an obligation to check into that and see if
Speaker 2: there is something that needs to be done, and then
Speaker 2: to carry that majority opinion into the chamber.
Speaker 1: Very good, Very good. Other things that are going on
Speaker 1: at city Hall. Like I said, we're looking at the
Speaker 1: strategic plan, and we recently had the workshop here on
Speaker 1: the flock cameras. The other city business, it just kind
Speaker 1: of goes on at a pretty good click. It seems
Speaker 1: like our crash gets picked up on time. It seems
Speaker 1: like the streets get swept. I followed one into work today, Yes, right,
Speaker 1: And and I understand that once the weather gets better,
Speaker 1: we're going to start fixing Yale and a few other things.
Speaker 1: And Madison, yeah, and Madison, oh yeah, yeah, we need
Speaker 1: that part taken care of too. But we've got the
Speaker 1: grass and leaf of free pickup coming up first week
Speaker 1: in May.
Speaker 2: I do believe too, right that I may second maybe
Speaker 2: it's gonna be the first part of me.
Speaker 3: Sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Now the other business is going along pretty well.
Speaker 2: It's always the most contentious things that wind up in
Speaker 2: the news. Yeah, you know, I've had conversations with a
Speaker 2: few people, had a very nice reporter from Fox twenty
Speaker 2: three call me. And one of the things that I've
Speaker 2: shared with them Tom is also this this is a
Speaker 2: this is the letter from Sheriff Owen.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, what's this say?
Speaker 2: The letter is his rescinding his approval for the memorandum
Speaker 2: of understanding with the county commissioners and a few weeks ago,
Speaker 2: right right, So he basically says, since approving that agreement,
Speaker 2: additional information has been brought to my attention, ranging from legislative,
Speaker 2: legal and statueatory issues, coupled with a concern for possible
Speaker 2: constitutional rights violations which could possibly compromise certain cases during prosecution,
Speaker 2: as well as infringe upon inalienable rights afforded by our
Speaker 2: creator and both the United States and Oklahoma constitutions. So
Speaker 2: here he says that he would like to rescind his
Speaker 2: approval for that memorandum. And then this is another statement
Speaker 2: that he gave to the gentleman Josh Locke, who has
Speaker 2: a change dot org petition.
Speaker 1: We've had Josh as a guest.
Speaker 2: Yes, he said, My position on block, after having looked
Speaker 2: at him for Washington County, is that with respect to
Speaker 2: the Constitution, I'm rightfully concerned with even the appearance of
Speaker 2: approaching Fourth Amendment boundaries. It's our responsibility to respect our
Speaker 2: citizens' liberties first and foremost above all. So we appreciate
Speaker 2: our sheriff, and we also want to say thank you
Speaker 2: to our county commissioners who have since voted to rescind
Speaker 2: that memorandum of understanding. That is a that's an important
Speaker 2: step forward and it will keep it from expanding into
Speaker 2: the county level, but we still obviously need to get
Speaker 2: something done at the city level.
Speaker 1: Tim jug It's it's been a little bit since I
Speaker 1: did the background on the flock cameras. As far as
Speaker 1: court cases are concerned, probably a good four weeks have
Speaker 1: any of these cases gone before judges were ruling has
Speaker 1: been made.
Speaker 3: They're still being litigated at this time.
Speaker 1: That's what I thought.
Speaker 2: There was a case in McClain County where a certain
Speaker 2: piece of evidence that was obtained by using the flock
Speaker 2: system was thrown out of a criminal case. There is
Speaker 2: a very important case happening in Norfolk, Virginia that the
Speaker 2: Institute of Justice is litigating.
Speaker 3: On behalf of their clients.
Speaker 2: They deployed a large net of cameras and so they're
Speaker 2: they're basing that on some Supreme Court decisions as well
Speaker 2: as other president one of which says you can't use
Speaker 2: cellular tracking data without a warrant. You can't place a
Speaker 2: trace around a vehicle. Was another case without a warrant.
Speaker 2: So the GPS data that is used at times if
Speaker 2: your car has that feature, also cannot be presented for
Speaker 2: any kind of use in court without a warrant. So
Speaker 2: there's an awful lot of similar circumstances that say you
Speaker 2: can't be watched all the time without cause. There needs
Speaker 2: to be probable cause issuing in a warrant or subpoena
Speaker 2: for you to be able to gain that kind of
Speaker 2: access and information about a person's life.
Speaker 1: Now, this Norfolk case was the one that caught my
Speaker 1: attention a few weeks ago, and like you said, it's
Speaker 1: still being litigated, but man, there was just a whole
Speaker 1: pile of different things. They're going to have to take
Speaker 1: some time to short it all out.
Speaker 2: They are as of February fifth, the ruling came down
Speaker 2: that the defendant's motion to dismiss was not honored by
Speaker 2: the court. So they are moving into discovery and all
Speaker 2: of the all of the things on both sides will
Speaker 2: be brought out soon.
Speaker 1: So this could be the case that this all hinges on.
Speaker 3: It very well could be a precedent setting case for
Speaker 3: the nation.
Speaker 1: Absolutely well, we're going to keep our eyes on it
Speaker 1: and yours on it. As well too, anything else you
Speaker 1: like to bring up about what's going on and what
Speaker 1: we can maybe you expect from City Council.
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, as you mentioned earlier, be careful
Speaker 2: out there, guys, the wind's blowing. Don't burn anything, you know,
Speaker 2: unless you need to in a safe way. I think
Speaker 2: if you absolutely had to, there may be some prescribed
Speaker 2: precautions you need to make sure you take, but generally speaking,
Speaker 2: don't do that. We want to make sure we keep
Speaker 2: our neighbors safe, and that's that's one reason that we
Speaker 2: also need to find balance on issues like this. We
Speaker 2: want to back the blue. We want to make sure
Speaker 2: that they understand that we really appreciate what they do
Speaker 2: for our community, but we also aren't willing to surrender
Speaker 2: our liberty for security. Other things that will be coming
Speaker 2: up from City Council in the future will be once
Speaker 2: the next strategic Plan is completed and Nevor twenty forty
Speaker 2: five has been in reconcile, so they're reconciling all of
Speaker 2: the suggestions that were brought to them by the public, everything.
Speaker 3: That we sent in from our constituencies.
Speaker 2: And they're reworking that so that will come back to
Speaker 2: the Council for review and a vote in upcoming meetings
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 1: Very good, very good, Tim. How can we get a
Speaker 1: hold of it? We need you. I think all the
Speaker 1: information they need is right there on the city website.
Speaker 2: It is so for every council member. On the website
Speaker 2: you will find our name listed, a photo for most
Speaker 2: of us, and our email address. It's very simple. If
Speaker 2: you know what ward you're in, all you need to
Speaker 2: know is Ward one, two, three, four five and at
Speaker 2: Cityomartlesville dot org and that'll come directly to our official mailbox.
Speaker 1: All right, Tim Sherick, thank you for being with us today.
Speaker 3: Thanks Tom, always enjoy
Speaker 1: It already, folks, you have been watching and listening to
Speaker 1: our community connection on K one.