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<v Speaker 1>Good morning, good morning, good morning. Welcome, welcome, welcome. It

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<v Speaker 1>is time nown for city matters right here on okay,

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<v Speaker 1>one the one you trust, and we have a city

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<v Speaker 1>councilor Tim Shrick here with is today and returning for

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<v Speaker 1>I guess twice now as a counselor three times altogether,

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<v Speaker 1>but something like that. But my goodness, sakes, nice weather,

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<v Speaker 1>we don't have the fires like we had on Friday,

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<v Speaker 1>by golly, hats off to the Bartlespiel Fire Department. No

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<v Speaker 1>buildings were burned. We did have thirty fires though.

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<v Speaker 2>They do a great job, and we're so appreciative of

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<v Speaker 2>all that they commit to the community and the sacrifice

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<v Speaker 2>that they make to keep us safe.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my goodness. Now, Tim, we've got a couple of

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<v Speaker 1>things going on here. First, we've got a workshop coming out.

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<v Speaker 1>What is that we do?

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<v Speaker 3>So coming up.

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<v Speaker 2>Just after this next weekend, we'll have a workshop. It's

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<v Speaker 2>going to be focused on the next strategic plan. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>So that's basically time for the counselors to come together

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<v Speaker 2>and talk about what their vision is for Bartlesville going forward,

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<v Speaker 2>what we want to see accomplished, how we intend to

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<v Speaker 2>achieve it so that we can submit that and then

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<v Speaker 2>it will all kind of be brought together, coalesced, and

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<v Speaker 2>put into a document that will vote on in a

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<v Speaker 2>future council session.

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<v Speaker 1>So what kind of things are we looking at? We're

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<v Speaker 1>looking at infrastructure, thing, quality of life, things, just about anything.

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<v Speaker 1>Bartles Will all of the above.

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<v Speaker 2>Really, as I understand that, the next strategic plan is

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<v Speaker 2>how we intend to move forward, and part of that

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<v Speaker 2>feeds into the Endeavor twenty forty five. So we want

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<v Speaker 2>to see certain things accomplished in Bartlesville.

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<v Speaker 3>We'll talk about our vision for.

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<v Speaker 2>That, how we as individual counselors see that happening, how

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<v Speaker 2>we feel like our constituency is expressing to us that

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<v Speaker 2>they would like.

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<v Speaker 3>To see that happen. If there's any specific.

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<v Speaker 2>Issue that is raised, and we always urge that, call

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<v Speaker 2>your council member, Email your council member, let them know

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<v Speaker 2>what you feel like is important so we can carry

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<v Speaker 2>that forward into the council chamber.

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<v Speaker 1>Counselor, Tim Shirk, what are you hearing so far?

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<v Speaker 3>What I'm hearing is just a few little things so far.

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<v Speaker 2>People are concerned, for example, about tornado sirens that might

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<v Speaker 2>need to be replaced sooner rather than later. They feel

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<v Speaker 2>like that might pose a significant public safety risk, and

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<v Speaker 2>so things like that are primarily what we're hearing so far.

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<v Speaker 1>Public safety stuff.

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<v Speaker 3>Public safety. Most people, I.

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<v Speaker 2>Think are pretty happy with the amenities that have been

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<v Speaker 2>established already, probably don't need to spend a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>time looking at those. Some people actually have complained to

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<v Speaker 2>me that they feel like there are too many amenities

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<v Speaker 2>and not much attention, not as much attention to detail

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<v Speaker 2>given to public safety.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know, that's something that's going to be in

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<v Speaker 1>the eye of the beholder everywhere you go. And I

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<v Speaker 1>understand that it's like, wow, we're doing but what about

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<v Speaker 1>that tornado siren? I get that, I really do. So

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<v Speaker 1>it's going to be interesting to see what manifests from this.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely we're all, you know, we have two incumbents who've

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<v Speaker 2>done things like this before, and from what I understand,

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<v Speaker 2>the framework was established by the previous council, but they

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<v Speaker 2>paused once the election happened and they knew that they

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<v Speaker 2>had a sixty percent turnover, so that we could come

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<v Speaker 2>in with the ideas that we're hearing from our constituency

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<v Speaker 2>to hopefully carry that change into the next phase.

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<v Speaker 1>Very good flock cameras have been a big thing that's

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<v Speaker 1>been coming up. We had a recent workshop on that,

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<v Speaker 1>no decision made. I understand.

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<v Speaker 2>No, we at workshops, you know, the one coming up

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<v Speaker 2>and the one that we've already had are not times

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<v Speaker 2>to vote. They're basically times for input and discussion. We

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<v Speaker 2>don't vote on any business or how we're going to proceed.

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<v Speaker 2>We might say we need more information, we might request

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<v Speaker 2>that certain pieces of it be researched.

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<v Speaker 3>But yeah, we don't vote workshops.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, But with the flock camera where there was a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of there was a lot of discussion, a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of debate.

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<v Speaker 2>Correct, It's a very contentious issue generally, there have been

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<v Speaker 2>debates all the way up to the state level.

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<v Speaker 3>We very much appreciate.

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<v Speaker 2>Representative Tom Gann from Iola coming to Bartlesville and putting

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<v Speaker 2>on a workshop.

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<v Speaker 3>For us, yes last February, right February.

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<v Speaker 2>Sixth, giving us the other side of the coin, if

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<v Speaker 2>you will. I think that there are some serious concerns

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<v Speaker 2>that are around the flock camera systems.

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<v Speaker 3>We definitely want to pay attention to those.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think anyone wants to live in an our

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<v Speaker 2>welly and surveillance state. We understand that there were some

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<v Speaker 2>arguments made. But this is one of the things and

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<v Speaker 2>we try to even teach our kids at home, and

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's important that we do that, that logical

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<v Speaker 2>fallacies are important, and when you argue from a position

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<v Speaker 2>of appealing to emotion rather than bringing.

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<v Speaker 3>Facts, that is a logical fallacy.

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<v Speaker 2>So if I came to you Tom and I said,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, here's this heart wrenching story about something that

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<v Speaker 2>was done as a direct result of this system, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>appealing to your motion. I'm not telling you this might

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<v Speaker 2>encroach upon your personal freedoms.

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<v Speaker 3>This might violate your fourth and fourteenth Amendment rights.

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<v Speaker 2>This might violate Oklahoma Title forty seven, and frankly, we

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<v Speaker 2>believe Flock does all of those things.

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<v Speaker 3>So at least a portion of us.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, I've been questioned over what I mean when I

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<v Speaker 2>say we before, so let me clarify that being I,

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<v Speaker 2>myself and the people that I'm having personal conversations with,

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<v Speaker 2>believe that this poses a serious risk to personal liberties.

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<v Speaker 1>Now I'm good play Devil's advocate. Here. You go into

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<v Speaker 1>any store, not any, but most there's a surveillance camera.

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<v Speaker 1>It's tracking you from the parking lot into the door.

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<v Speaker 1>You've been times up and down the aisle. Is that

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<v Speaker 1>an infringement or is that just protection since it's private property.

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<v Speaker 2>Those are on a closed system, inaccessible to anyone except

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<v Speaker 2>the store security people.

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<v Speaker 3>Unless you have a warrant.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there you go.

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<v Speaker 2>And they also provide for your Fourteenth Amendment due process

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<v Speaker 2>rights by having signs posted. You know, some of them

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<v Speaker 2>are even a little bit facetious. You know, smile, you're

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<v Speaker 2>on camera, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>So it is there.

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<v Speaker 3>It's there, but your warning is there.

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<v Speaker 2>Then you make a decision as to whether or not

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<v Speaker 2>you walk in the store and shop there, or if

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<v Speaker 2>you park on that parking lot. And those are the

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<v Speaker 2>kinds of things that you should be able to do.

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<v Speaker 2>You can decide. When you put up cameras all around

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<v Speaker 2>your city, you create a surveillance net that monitors your

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<v Speaker 2>people as a pre gathering of evidence for crimes that

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<v Speaker 2>may not be committed. And what was very interesting to

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<v Speaker 2>me was some footage that is now available on YouTube

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<v Speaker 2>from body of ard More police officers. They were obtained

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<v Speaker 2>by a Freedom of Information Act request and you clearly

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<v Speaker 2>see the ard More policeman questioning someone in his vehicle

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<v Speaker 2>from information brought up from flock on his laptop about

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<v Speaker 2>data that goes back at least ninety days, which flies

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<v Speaker 2>in the face of their contention that it's only maintained

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<v Speaker 2>for thirty days. I don't know why we're relying on

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<v Speaker 2>anybody but Flock, who's trying to sell us the system

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<v Speaker 2>for the information about what their stuff can do.

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<v Speaker 3>Either.

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<v Speaker 2>The vision of the founder of Flock is a crime

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<v Speaker 2>free society with a camera on every corner, and it

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<v Speaker 2>says so right on their website. I don't think anybody

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<v Speaker 2>wants that. I think you want a crime free society.

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<v Speaker 2>I think they do too, But I think we need

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<v Speaker 2>to look at what we can do to better support

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<v Speaker 2>our boys in blue. We need to back the blue.

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<v Speaker 2>We don't need to black back the cameras. Okay, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>and these are also called a force multiplier. So anybody

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<v Speaker 2>who understands what that means, especially if you've ever been

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<v Speaker 2>through a layoff, mean you know, you should be nervous

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<v Speaker 2>that they're going to put in more cameras and not

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<v Speaker 2>more policemen.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, automation, it's played. It's played in this business at

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<v Speaker 1>what you're talking.

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<v Speaker 2>About, And as generative AI and other things become more powerful,

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<v Speaker 2>the system could be expanded to include facial recognition it.

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<v Speaker 1>We have that already in some places we.

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<v Speaker 3>Do have and that's one of the concerns.

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<v Speaker 2>The higher government agencies with which this data is shared

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<v Speaker 2>do have those things, and there's no guarantees. See, there's

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<v Speaker 2>no universal guardrails around this that says that if it

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't receive a hit on an nc ICY hot list,

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<v Speaker 2>that it will be deleted within three minutes. They're saying

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<v Speaker 2>locally thirty days. Well, we don't know what might happen

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<v Speaker 2>in other venues. We do know that Tulsa has over

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<v Speaker 2>two hundred cameras and that they won't even disclose the

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<v Speaker 2>location of them, and that they also have a live

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<v Speaker 2>crime center where they're watching these feeds in real time.

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<v Speaker 2>That's not something I think Bartlesville has expressed a desire for.

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<v Speaker 2>I think we probably should have had community engagement early on,

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<v Speaker 2>rather than watching all these things bubble up here after

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<v Speaker 2>we've already got stuff that would have to be undone.

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<v Speaker 2>But in our workshop session we did agree as a

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<v Speaker 2>council to move this to a vote of the people. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>what I'm hearing today is that there's an opinion that

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<v Speaker 2>says we can't do that. Because it would be a

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<v Speaker 2>strictly advisory opinion of the people that was said by

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<v Speaker 2>our city attorney in an open meeting. What could be done, though,

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<v Speaker 2>as I read the law and as I'm having other conversations,

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<v Speaker 2>is that we could pass a resolution to issue an

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<v Speaker 2>ordinance that would amand the city Charter, and any amendment

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<v Speaker 2>to the city Charter would call for a vote of

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<v Speaker 2>the people. So I think that there is a way

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<v Speaker 2>forward for the Council to do it. I'm still ex

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<v Speaker 2>floring that, and I will continue to explore that.

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<v Speaker 1>It sounds like it may entail from heavy lifting.

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<v Speaker 2>There might be a bigger lift on this issue. But

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<v Speaker 2>you know what, as I've said before, the people's voice

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<v Speaker 2>needs to be the very loudest one in the room.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's my job. I was elected by the people

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<v Speaker 2>to carry their voice in there, not to argue for

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<v Speaker 2>my preference or opinions.

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<v Speaker 3>But when people come to me and say, what are

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<v Speaker 3>we going to do about this?

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<v Speaker 2>This is a clear violation of Title forty seven, I

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<v Speaker 2>have an obligation to check into that and see if

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<v Speaker 2>there is something that needs to be done, and then

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<v Speaker 2>to carry that majority opinion into the chamber.

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<v Speaker 1>Very good, Very good. Other things that are going on

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<v Speaker 1>at city Hall. Like I said, we're looking at the

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<v Speaker 1>strategic plan, and we recently had the workshop here on

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<v Speaker 1>the flock cameras. The other city business, it just kind

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<v Speaker 1>of goes on at a pretty good click. It seems

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<v Speaker 1>like our crash gets picked up on time. It seems

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<v Speaker 1>like the streets get swept. I followed one into work today, Yes, right,

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<v Speaker 1>And and I understand that once the weather gets better,

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to start fixing Yale and a few other things.

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<v Speaker 1>And Madison, yeah, and Madison, oh yeah, yeah, we need

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<v Speaker 1>that part taken care of too. But we've got the

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<v Speaker 1>grass and leaf of free pickup coming up first week

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<v Speaker 1>in May.

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<v Speaker 2>I do believe too, right that I may second maybe

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<v Speaker 2>it's gonna be the first part of me.

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<v Speaker 3>Sure.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>Now the other business is going along pretty well.

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<v Speaker 2>It's always the most contentious things that wind up in

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<v Speaker 2>the news. Yeah, you know, I've had conversations with a

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<v Speaker 2>few people, had a very nice reporter from Fox twenty

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<v Speaker 2>three call me. And one of the things that I've

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<v Speaker 2>shared with them Tom is also this this is a

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<v Speaker 2>this is the letter from Sheriff Owen.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh okay, what's this say?

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<v Speaker 2>The letter is his rescinding his approval for the memorandum

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<v Speaker 2>of understanding with the county commissioners and a few weeks ago,

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<v Speaker 2>right right, So he basically says, since approving that agreement,

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<v Speaker 2>additional information has been brought to my attention, ranging from legislative,

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<v Speaker 2>legal and statueatory issues, coupled with a concern for possible

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<v Speaker 2>constitutional rights violations which could possibly compromise certain cases during prosecution,

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<v Speaker 2>as well as infringe upon inalienable rights afforded by our

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<v Speaker 2>creator and both the United States and Oklahoma constitutions. So

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<v Speaker 2>here he says that he would like to rescind his

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<v Speaker 2>approval for that memorandum. And then this is another statement

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<v Speaker 2>that he gave to the gentleman Josh Locke, who has

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<v Speaker 2>a change dot org petition.

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<v Speaker 1>We've had Josh as a guest.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, he said, My position on block, after having looked

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<v Speaker 2>at him for Washington County, is that with respect to

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<v Speaker 2>the Constitution, I'm rightfully concerned with even the appearance of

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<v Speaker 2>approaching Fourth Amendment boundaries. It's our responsibility to respect our

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<v Speaker 2>citizens' liberties first and foremost above all. So we appreciate

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<v Speaker 2>our sheriff, and we also want to say thank you

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<v Speaker 2>to our county commissioners who have since voted to rescind

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<v Speaker 2>that memorandum of understanding. That is a that's an important

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<v Speaker 2>step forward and it will keep it from expanding into

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<v Speaker 2>the county level, but we still obviously need to get

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<v Speaker 2>something done at the city level.

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<v Speaker 1>Tim jug It's it's been a little bit since I

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<v Speaker 1>did the background on the flock cameras. As far as

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<v Speaker 1>court cases are concerned, probably a good four weeks have

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<v Speaker 1>any of these cases gone before judges were ruling has

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<v Speaker 1>been made.

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<v Speaker 3>They're still being litigated at this time.

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<v Speaker 1>That's what I thought.

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<v Speaker 2>There was a case in McClain County where a certain

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<v Speaker 2>piece of evidence that was obtained by using the flock

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<v Speaker 2>system was thrown out of a criminal case. There is

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<v Speaker 2>a very important case happening in Norfolk, Virginia that the

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<v Speaker 2>Institute of Justice is litigating.

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<v Speaker 3>On behalf of their clients.

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<v Speaker 2>They deployed a large net of cameras and so they're

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<v Speaker 2>they're basing that on some Supreme Court decisions as well

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<v Speaker 2>as other president one of which says you can't use

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<v Speaker 2>cellular tracking data without a warrant. You can't place a

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<v Speaker 2>trace around a vehicle. Was another case without a warrant.

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<v Speaker 2>So the GPS data that is used at times if

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<v Speaker 2>your car has that feature, also cannot be presented for

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<v Speaker 2>any kind of use in court without a warrant. So

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<v Speaker 2>there's an awful lot of similar circumstances that say you

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<v Speaker 2>can't be watched all the time without cause. There needs

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<v Speaker 2>to be probable cause issuing in a warrant or subpoena

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<v Speaker 2>for you to be able to gain that kind of

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<v Speaker 2>access and information about a person's life.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, this Norfolk case was the one that caught my

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<v Speaker 1>attention a few weeks ago, and like you said, it's

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<v Speaker 1>still being litigated, but man, there was just a whole

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<v Speaker 1>pile of different things. They're going to have to take

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<v Speaker 1>some time to short it all out.

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<v Speaker 2>They are as of February fifth, the ruling came down

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<v Speaker 2>that the defendant's motion to dismiss was not honored by

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<v Speaker 2>the court. So they are moving into discovery and all

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<v Speaker 2>of the all of the things on both sides will

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<v Speaker 2>be brought out soon.

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<v Speaker 1>So this could be the case that this all hinges on.

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<v Speaker 3>It very well could be a precedent setting case for

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<v Speaker 3>the nation.

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely well, we're going to keep our eyes on it

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<v Speaker 1>and yours on it. As well too, anything else you

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<v Speaker 1>like to bring up about what's going on and what

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<v Speaker 1>we can maybe you expect from City Council.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, first of all, as you mentioned earlier, be careful

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<v Speaker 2>out there, guys, the wind's blowing. Don't burn anything, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>unless you need to in a safe way. I think

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<v Speaker 2>if you absolutely had to, there may be some prescribed

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<v Speaker 2>precautions you need to make sure you take, but generally speaking,

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<v Speaker 2>don't do that. We want to make sure we keep

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<v Speaker 2>our neighbors safe, and that's that's one reason that we

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<v Speaker 2>also need to find balance on issues like this. We

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<v Speaker 2>want to back the blue. We want to make sure

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<v Speaker 2>that they understand that we really appreciate what they do

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<v Speaker 2>for our community, but we also aren't willing to surrender

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<v Speaker 2>our liberty for security. Other things that will be coming

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<v Speaker 2>up from City Council in the future will be once

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<v Speaker 2>the next strategic Plan is completed and Nevor twenty forty

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<v Speaker 2>five has been in reconcile, so they're reconciling all of

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<v Speaker 2>the suggestions that were brought to them by the public, everything.

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<v Speaker 3>That we sent in from our constituencies.

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<v Speaker 2>And they're reworking that so that will come back to

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<v Speaker 2>the Council for review and a vote in upcoming meetings

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<v Speaker 2>as well.

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<v Speaker 1>Very good, very good, Tim. How can we get a

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<v Speaker 1>hold of it? We need you. I think all the

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<v Speaker 1>information they need is right there on the city website.

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<v Speaker 2>It is so for every council member. On the website

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<v Speaker 2>you will find our name listed, a photo for most

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<v Speaker 2>of us, and our email address. It's very simple. If

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<v Speaker 2>you know what ward you're in, all you need to

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<v Speaker 2>know is Ward one, two, three, four five and at

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<v Speaker 2>Cityomartlesville dot org and that'll come directly to our official mailbox.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, Tim Sherick, thank you for being with us today.

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<v Speaker 3>Thanks Tom, always enjoy

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<v Speaker 1>It already, folks, you have been watching and listening to

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<v Speaker 1>our community connection on K one.