Speaker 1: Ripped off, bad news, need advice?
Speaker 2: Who you don't have? Come running just as fast as
Speaker 2: we can.
Speaker 1: Shooter's gonna help.
Speaker 3: Come man, this is.
Speaker 4: The Troubleshooter Show.
Speaker 5: No Tom Martinez, welcome, Welcome.
Speaker 4: To the show. And as you know, it's the only
Speaker 4: show of it's kind.
Speaker 6: We're here to solve your problems, answer complaints and uh
Speaker 6: I'm sorry, take your complaints and recoup your money.
Speaker 4: That's my favorite part.
Speaker 6: You got a bad contractor out there and basically need help.
Speaker 6: We use the power of the media. Think about that.
Speaker 6: We use this big radio tower. In fact, I think
Speaker 6: our radio tower the KOA ones in Parker. I'm not
Speaker 6: actually sure where ky House is, but we use that
Speaker 6: tower to broadcast and warn people of bad, bad guys
Speaker 6: out there, bad landlords, bad people in general. If you
Speaker 6: go to Sleavesbrigade dot com, you'll see a lot of
Speaker 6: the worst of the worst. We do have lines open.
Speaker 6: We just started the show. I've got a great guest today,
Speaker 6: Brad O'Brien. Welcome to the show. Brad, of course, is
Speaker 6: an attorney anything real estate. I guess that's probably the
Speaker 6: best way to push it. Commercial residential closing docs, property
Speaker 6: line disputes anything, right, I mean, really, Brad, is there
Speaker 6: anything in real estate you guys don't do over it
Speaker 6: your firm.
Speaker 7: I suppose that there's environmental damage.
Speaker 8: We don't really do too much of that, but we
Speaker 8: do help people buy and sell real estate, both residential
Speaker 8: and commercial. And there's a dispute and involving real estate, we
Speaker 8: get involved in that, even go to court.
Speaker 6: Yeah, absolutely, So yeah, you'll go to court and you'll
Speaker 6: fight and you'll litigate, right, yes, yeah.
Speaker 4: And there's a lot of people.
Speaker 6: It's kind of funny a lot of attorneys, some attorneys
Speaker 6: really never go into court ever.
Speaker 8: I mean really in real estate, A lot of attorneys
Speaker 8: pick one side or the other transactions or litigation, but
Speaker 8: I actually straddle into both.
Speaker 4: You do both. You know who else does that? Is
Speaker 4: election attorneys.
Speaker 6: I'm trying to I'm helping my sister in law in Georgia,
Speaker 6: and I'm trying to find her the right attorney out there.
Speaker 6: And I'm finding that a lot of collection attorneys, not
Speaker 6: collection agencies, but attorneys not only will they collect for you,
Speaker 6: but they'll also help defend collections from you. And I
Speaker 6: didn't realize that. I figured they'd just be one or
Speaker 6: the other. But I'm finding a lot of firms they
Speaker 6: do literally both, which makes sense, and I like the
Speaker 6: fact you do that.
Speaker 8: Well, I'm not a plaintiff attorney or a defendant attorney,
Speaker 8: whichever side calls me first. Like a landlord's situation, if
Speaker 8: the tenant calls me first, I'll represent the tenant. Wise,
Speaker 8: I'll represent the landlord if they call me first.
Speaker 6: And the problem with that, it's not that it's a problem.
Speaker 6: I know you do that, but generally speaking, the tenant
Speaker 6: is probably facing eviction. That would be your probably your
Speaker 6: number one call from a tenant, yeah, yeah, And then
Speaker 6: what happens is generally it's because of non payment.
Speaker 4: And tell me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 6: I'm just saying your average, your average call from a tenant.
Speaker 8: Right facing eviction or some type of problem, just be
Speaker 8: with the landlord. There's a lot of tenant rights out
Speaker 8: there now.
Speaker 6: Of course, but generally, I guess where I'm going with
Speaker 6: this is there's generally no money. So because they haven't
Speaker 6: paid the rent, there's no money, so there's no money
Speaker 6: to really retain an attorney.
Speaker 4: Doesn't that happen quite a bit?
Speaker 6: I mean, just the fact they haven't paid their rent
Speaker 6: is meaning they don't have the money.
Speaker 4: Most likely.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I get more commercial tenants calling me for assessions
Speaker 8: than residential because they have more money.
Speaker 6: And I got you and then bigger dollars. Yet not
Speaker 6: only bigger dollars. But let me give the phone number
Speaker 6: out by the way. Anybody has any questions complaints, we'd
Speaker 6: love to dive in.
Speaker 4: I've also got.
Speaker 6: Deputy Dimitri's here, Deputy Doc, my lovely wife Suzanne Kelly.
Speaker 4: And who do we have today? Is it Dragon? Dragon?
Speaker 4: Real quick?
Speaker 6: How come I'm havvy? We're Shannon? Why is he always
Speaker 6: there now?
Speaker 9: Because of the way schedules are we have a board
Speaker 9: ofth that's out on vacation.
Speaker 4: So oh okay, I got it.
Speaker 6: Someone's on vacation. So we will go back to the
Speaker 6: old way again, correct at some point?
Speaker 4: All right?
Speaker 6: Three oh three seven one three eight two five five.
Speaker 6: Love to talk to you now, three zero three Martino
Speaker 6: three oh three seven one three eight two five five,
Speaker 6: Go ahead.
Speaker 10: Document, I say we got something out, Brad.
Speaker 11: This guy is going to look like he's twenty five
Speaker 11: when he's ninety years old. He's the youngest looking guy
Speaker 11: I've ever seen.
Speaker 4: I think he looks good he doesn't look like a baby.
Speaker 11: No, no, but he's gonna look I'm telling you thirty
Speaker 11: years old when he's ninety.
Speaker 6: I'm not sure if Doc's hitting on you over here,
Speaker 6: I'm not sure what's going on. No, I know it's
Speaker 6: a compliment Doc. So where I was going with that, though,
Speaker 6: Brad is basically this A lot of the people that
Speaker 6: call you, Oh we went to the commercial thing.
Speaker 4: I already asked you that. So on the commercial side.
Speaker 6: If the company's not paying, I mean, whatever it is
Speaker 6: in office building or an office suite that someone's running,
Speaker 6: they're not paying, there's generally a personal guarantee attached to it, right.
Speaker 7: A lot of times on commercial yes, And that's.
Speaker 4: And so there's other people to go after.
Speaker 6: I mean, so when you go, when you're actually working
Speaker 6: for the tenant, what do you generally do? What's your
Speaker 6: biggest call for the tenants side?
Speaker 7: Up front? I help people negotiate their leases.
Speaker 8: Commercial leases are very long, fifteen to fifty pages, a
Speaker 8: lot to go through. I highly recommend an attorney on
Speaker 8: all commercial leases.
Speaker 6: Yeah, because in fact, if you've never leased before, I've
Speaker 6: leased a lot of buildings, but my god, if you
Speaker 6: just look at cam charges. You really got to understand
Speaker 6: that you might be paying a certain amount right now.
Speaker 6: Then all of a sudden you're at that triple net
Speaker 6: goes up, and I mean, your lease can go a
Speaker 6: big time. Do a lot of people come to you
Speaker 6: after the fact and basically say, hey, you know they're
Speaker 6: trying to charge me more.
Speaker 8: Now, I suppose if real estate taxes go up in
Speaker 8: a big way, then I'm want to talk about that.
Speaker 6: Now, how about on the other side, the landlords? Well,
Speaker 6: hold on, I still want to go on the tenant side.
Speaker 6: How about tenants to call you that aren't commercial, that
Speaker 6: are residential a house or running a duplex or a condo,
Speaker 6: whatever it is, an apartment, what what is that typical?
Speaker 6: Cause that more what I was describing.
Speaker 8: The calls I get are more about the habitability and
Speaker 8: the condition of the premises.
Speaker 6: So they might say, hey, we've got mold here and
Speaker 6: they're not doing anything about it.
Speaker 7: It's a very common one.
Speaker 8: Water damage or secure like the management person that keeps
Speaker 8: walking in without without knocking or without notice, you know,
Speaker 8: just trampling on their rights.
Speaker 6: And how do you Okay, and that's fair, they're trampling
Speaker 6: on their rights, But how do you help somebody like that.
Speaker 4: Generally, do they have money.
Speaker 7: Well, and they're welcome to retain me.
Speaker 8: And if if they want to spend money on an attorney,
Speaker 8: but I do give a free initial consultation and try
Speaker 8: to steal people in the right direction.
Speaker 7: You know, generally, what do you.
Speaker 6: Do if it's something like mold and you know, really
Speaker 6: the first thing you do is what tell them to
Speaker 6: hire someone to get a multi test.
Speaker 8: The first thing is not a legal question at all.
Speaker 8: It's a safety question. You know, it's their personal safety
Speaker 8: and health. If it's if it's a toxic situation and
Speaker 8: they have a baby, maybe they shouldn't be there.
Speaker 7: Walified out.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 6: We've got one we're doing at ten thirty today and
Speaker 6: I'm going to tell you about it real quick. This
Speaker 6: girl Tiffany called this woman Tiffany, and she rented.
Speaker 4: Out her house. Okay.
Speaker 6: Her husband passed away about eighteen months ago, and she
Speaker 6: moved from their house up in up in the mountains, Okay.
Speaker 6: And she moved from there to an apartment and rented
Speaker 6: out to house follow me so far or moved in
Speaker 6: with a friend something along those terms, and rented out
Speaker 6: to house. She rented it out for approximately three months.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 6: After the three months, the tenants said, we want out
Speaker 6: of the lease. Okay, And the reason we want out
Speaker 6: of the lease is there's toxic mold. Apparently someone came
Speaker 6: out and did a test and there wasn't toxic mold.
Speaker 4: But here's where it went. They hired, they moved out.
Speaker 4: They hired an attorney or retained an attorney. Hell, they
Speaker 4: might be the attorney, I don't know. And they filed
Speaker 4: a lawsuit against her and are trying to, what I say,
Speaker 4: shake her down for twenty five thousand. They tried to
Speaker 4: shake her down, the attorneys saying, pay me twenty five
Speaker 4: will make this go away. If not, we're going to
Speaker 4: file a lawsuit against you because my clients got injured
Speaker 4: because of the mold spores in your house. Now where
Speaker 4: it kit's interesting, as generally speaking, you would turn all
Speaker 4: this over to your insurance company and they would represent you.
Speaker 4: But I have a feeling and we're going to find
Speaker 4: out because I sent her policy over to one of
Speaker 4: our experts that her policy might not only exclude mold,
Speaker 4: but worse than that. Worse than that is she never
Speaker 4: converted that policy to a landlord tenant policy. She kept
Speaker 4: it as if she was the only you know, she
Speaker 4: lives there, it's her primary residence.
Speaker 8: Well, the fact that the owner in landlord doesn't have
Speaker 8: the right coven insurance has no effect on the on
Speaker 8: the tennis rights.
Speaker 4: No, I'm not talking about the tenant. Tiffany's the landlord.
Speaker 7: Okay.
Speaker 4: So she's the landlord and the tenants you're suing her.
Speaker 8: Okay, Well, we have a statch in Colorado that gives
Speaker 8: tennants a lot of rights in the case of water
Speaker 8: damage and mold. Yes, water damage that could cause mold.
Speaker 8: You don't necessarily have to prove that there is mold. Yeah,
Speaker 8: but there is a water condition.
Speaker 10: Okay.
Speaker 6: Hold on, we're going to go to her after this.
Speaker 6: We're going to talk to her and we're going to
Speaker 6: get her expert on Brian Burns too. So everybody holds tight.
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Speaker 12: of insurance companies find out now three oh three, seven
Speaker 12: to seven to one help. You'll think you're his only
Speaker 12: customer when you choose Frank durand the real estate man
Speaker 12: dot com to list your home with Remax Alliance three
Speaker 12: oh three nine two zero sixteen twenty two.
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Speaker 6: ten grand waterpros dot net. Now, so here's where we're
Speaker 6: going to go with this. We got a couple things going.
Speaker 6: I got Tiffany on. I'm going to bring Tiffany up first.
Speaker 6: So Tiffany is a caller from yesterday. Her husband passed
Speaker 6: away about eighteen months ago. She moved out of the
Speaker 6: family house. She rented the house out. How long did
Speaker 6: they were they in there, Tiffany, They were in there
Speaker 6: from September to basically January fifteenth.
Speaker 4: If I recall.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so they were in there and they were paying rent.
Speaker 6: The first time or the first time they complained or
Speaker 6: brought up an issue was when roughly.
Speaker 4: With the mold.
Speaker 13: It was December twenty seventh.
Speaker 6: So on December twenty seventh, how did they contact you?
Speaker 4: Did they just call you or what?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 13: They texted me with about twenty photos okay, and then
Speaker 13: when I tried to call them immediately, they said we
Speaker 13: would like to proceed with texting from here on out.
Speaker 13: So it just kind of seems fishy.
Speaker 6: Well okay, but hold on. So they said that, and
Speaker 6: they sent you pictures of the mold. And that was
Speaker 6: on December twenty seventh. When did you have someone or
Speaker 6: when did they have someone come out and actually test
Speaker 6: the mold, and did you do it or did they
Speaker 6: do it?
Speaker 13: They did it and they had someone come out December twentieth,
Speaker 13: So I was unaware.
Speaker 6: Oh so they tested before they even contacted you about it. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 6: So what what did you actually see the results.
Speaker 14: Yet?
Speaker 6: And what did the results say? They basically said, there's
Speaker 6: no mold.
Speaker 13: Yeah, yeah, basically, well it was a you know, a
Speaker 13: mold that was not found in the air.
Speaker 14: You know, it wasn't it was it wasn't airborne.
Speaker 13: It wasn't airborne, and it wasn't it wasn't hazarded hazard
Speaker 13: as to anybody's health.
Speaker 6: Okay, it was non hazardous, I get it. So, yeah,
Speaker 6: where was it? Was it all over the house in
Speaker 6: the basement.
Speaker 13: No, so they had taken pictures saying that it was
Speaker 13: all over my house okay, And the only spot that
Speaker 13: it was found was in my laundry room and it
Speaker 13: was just from a from a pipe that had leaked
Speaker 13: and I had got it fixed from a plumber and
Speaker 13: then it just kind of progressed.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 6: So then after after the twenty seventh when they just
Speaker 6: wanted to text back and forth.
Speaker 4: What was the next thing that happened?
Speaker 13: They basically, without getting the results backed, they said that
Speaker 13: they were wanting to move out January. First, they had
Speaker 13: they had texted me.
Speaker 4: Then what did you say, fine, go ahead or what.
Speaker 13: I said, depending on the results. We don't have the
Speaker 13: results of what type of mold it is. Okay, you know,
Speaker 13: if it was bad and they needed to get out.
Speaker 4: So what where did that end up from there?
Speaker 15: God like?
Speaker 6: Because I know they left on the sixteenth of January, right, yes,
Speaker 6: So see what happened in between? Did they just pack
Speaker 6: up and leave? Did you give them permission to break
Speaker 6: the least?
Speaker 3: Where?
Speaker 4: Did you guys leave it? In each other's eyes?
Speaker 16: No?
Speaker 13: And that that was the scary part. I think they
Speaker 13: are wanting. They were trying to get me to verbally
Speaker 13: say that they could move out by the first So
Speaker 13: I never really verbally said they could break the lease.
Speaker 13: But I did say if they felt that their health
Speaker 13: was declining, I wasn't keeping them there, that they had
Speaker 13: the choice to move out. They felt like their health
Speaker 13: was bad, So.
Speaker 4: What happened They just moved out?
Speaker 13: No, So they basically said we're going to stay here
Speaker 13: the entire month of January and you can use our
Speaker 13: last month's rent as rent, and we're not going to.
Speaker 17: Be we expect or.
Speaker 13: They kind of went back and forth. They said they
Speaker 13: were going to move out, then they said they were
Speaker 13: going to stay. Then they said they were going to
Speaker 13: move out, but they wanted their entire month last month's
Speaker 13: rent returned to them, plus their deposits.
Speaker 4: So where did it end up?
Speaker 2: Though?
Speaker 4: What actually happened?
Speaker 13: So I had they didn't pay rent on the first
Speaker 13: they attempted to pay rent. They tried to pay five
Speaker 13: dollars into my account.
Speaker 4: They attempted to give you five dollars.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, and.
Speaker 13: I guess that's waters like that's the renters squatter, right, seeing,
Speaker 13: I guess was what I was told for my attorney.
Speaker 6: So he well, hold on, hold on, Brad O'Brien real quick.
Speaker 6: Why would they try to transfer just five bucks? Is
Speaker 6: that like an old wives tale?
Speaker 7: That's about? I don't know what that's about.
Speaker 6: So you never I mean, if if someone pays partial rent,
Speaker 6: I don't care if it's a quarter or half the rent.
Speaker 6: I mean they still didn't pay their rent still, right?
Speaker 6: Or has Colorado changed something?
Speaker 8: If there's a habitability situation the tennis still has to
Speaker 8: pay the rent at the same time that the landlord
Speaker 8: has a bunch of duties things to do to remediate
Speaker 8: the issue. But the only time that a tendant can
Speaker 8: withhold rent is if if they've give give landlord plenty
Speaker 8: of notice to fix it. The landlord didn't do it,
Speaker 8: and then the tenant got None of.
Speaker 4: That has happened, at least from this side of the story.
Speaker 6: So okay, so they tried to give you five bucks
Speaker 6: or whatever, then what happened?
Speaker 13: So basically, I just I had got an attorney at
Speaker 13: that point because seems seem it.
Speaker 4: Felt to me, Yeah, the whole thing's crazy.
Speaker 13: They were trying to build a cake. So what happened Immediately?
Speaker 13: If I got an attorney. He advised me to just
Speaker 13: accept a check or cash in person and advise them
Speaker 13: of that that I was shutting down them being able
Speaker 13: to go to my bank and put cash into my account.
Speaker 13: So I did that via the attorney, and sure enough
Speaker 13: they the very next day they tried to go into
Speaker 13: the bank and the manager had notated on the account
Speaker 13: not to accept any form of payment, and they were yelling,
Speaker 13: throwing a fit, and they had they were trying to
Speaker 13: the managers that they were trying to deposit five dollars
Speaker 13: cash into my account, which, according to my attorney, that
Speaker 13: is the way of you know, any form of payment,
Speaker 13: whether it's five dollars, twenty dollars, the form out it
Speaker 13: could be considered.
Speaker 6: So far, so far, I think these guys are just
Speaker 6: scamming you. I mean, so far, That's what I'm thinking.
Speaker 6: But so I still want to go to the next part.
Speaker 6: I'm really trying to get there. So what happened they?
Speaker 6: Why did they move out on the sixty where in
Speaker 6: your eyes?
Speaker 4: What happened?
Speaker 13: So my attorney this advised me to let them know
Speaker 13: if they didn't pay run by the first that we
Speaker 13: would start the eviction process. So we did, and they
Speaker 13: they got served in a viction notice or the start
Speaker 13: of an eviction not yea, So the.
Speaker 6: Ten day notice, right, Brad? Would it be a ten
Speaker 6: day notice or a twenty what is the notice?
Speaker 4: Now?
Speaker 7: Non payment a round as a ten day notice.
Speaker 6: So the ten day notice then, so they put that
Speaker 6: on the door. Whatever you guys did, then what yees?
Speaker 6: They packed up and left?
Speaker 13: Yeah, they got an attorney and then I'm assuming their
Speaker 13: attorney advised them to move out because they were out
Speaker 13: before the eviction papers could be served to them.
Speaker 4: Okay, I get it.
Speaker 6: I get it up to there, so then they moved out.
Speaker 6: Now hold on, I got to take this break. I'm
Speaker 6: going to come back.
Speaker 4: There's two parts of this.
Speaker 6: We're going to dive into the first part because Brian
Speaker 6: Burns has been he's one of our experts on the insurance.
Speaker 6: Generally speaking, if somebody gets injured in your house, follow
Speaker 6: me down the road here. If someone gets injured in
Speaker 6: your house and you call your insurance company or they
Speaker 6: sue you, let's go right to that. Someone sues you
Speaker 6: because they think it's your issue, you're liable for it.
Speaker 6: You simply hand it over to your insurance company, your homeowners,
Speaker 6: and they will defend you. They will either settle, but
Speaker 6: no matter what, they'll defend you. That's how it generally works.
Speaker 6: The problem is, I don't think she's got the right
Speaker 6: kind of coverage to where she ultimately did get sued
Speaker 6: according to Tiffany, which we're going to get into after this,
Speaker 6: But ultimately I don't think she has any insurance and
Speaker 6: Brian Burns looked over her entire policy and we're.
Speaker 4: Gonna find out if she has coverage after this.
Speaker 12: Go with a sure thing Denver's Best roofer Excelroofing dot com.
Speaker 12: You don't pay a cent until you're content. Time for
Speaker 12: an insurance checkup free, no obligation. In comparison, call Compass
Speaker 12: Insurance paying too much your coverage at dozens of insurance
Speaker 12: companies find out now three oh three seven to seven
Speaker 12: to one.
Speaker 4: Help.
Speaker 12: You'll think you're his only customer when you choose Frank
Speaker 12: durand the real estate Man dot com to list your
Speaker 12: home with Remax Alliance three oh three nine two zero
Speaker 12: sixteen twenty two.
Speaker 4: All right three o three seven one three eight two
Speaker 4: five five. A couple lines open.
Speaker 6: We're gonna help Tiffany out here three zero three seven
Speaker 6: one three eight two five five. Any questions, complaints you
Speaker 6: want to rat out a bad contractor I'd love to
Speaker 6: hear it. Brian Burns. They sent you over Tiffany's basically
Speaker 6: lease with her tenant and the insurance policy, and you
Speaker 6: would have nothing to do with the lease actually, but
Speaker 6: the UH insurance policy.
Speaker 4: A couple things here.
Speaker 6: One, if you rent out your house and you don't
Speaker 6: have a landlord tenant insurance policy, will you even get
Speaker 6: coverage period.
Speaker 9: No, I think she's going to have a really uphill
Speaker 9: you know, whenever you have an incorrect policy like this.
Speaker 9: So it looks like she just has a home insurance policy. Yeah,
Speaker 9: yet she's renting it out. Now, if the home, let's say,
Speaker 9: you know, God forbid it burned down, the insurance company
Speaker 9: wouldn't be able to decline based off of the fact
Speaker 9: there was a tenant in it, because it wasn't necessarily
Speaker 9: the reason behind.
Speaker 4: Her So she would add coverage to a catastrophe.
Speaker 9: Yeah, so here, here's a good way to think of it.
Speaker 9: Having the tenant or whatever it is in this case.
Speaker 9: In this case it is a tenant. If having the
Speaker 9: tenant isn't the cause of loss, the insurance company would
Speaker 9: have a hard time declining or denying a claim off
Speaker 9: of that.
Speaker 6: Okay, But now on the liability side, because they're basically saying,
Speaker 6: she didn't do her job as a landlord and there
Speaker 6: was mold and now she has some form of damages,
Speaker 6: which we don't even know what they are, but that's
Speaker 6: what they're claiming. Typically speaking, if she had the right
Speaker 6: kind of insurance, what would happen.
Speaker 9: If she had the right kind of insurance they're depending
Speaker 9: and the Travelers is who she's with. But depending on
Speaker 9: the policy, you could have limited coverage. Now, the actual
Speaker 9: damage amount is very limited. I see five thousand dollars
Speaker 9: on some policies. But what you really want is something
Speaker 9: that will allow coverage for the lawsuit for the actual
Speaker 9: legal fees. And so if there's coverage, they have to defend.
Speaker 9: And it doesn't really matter if the coverage is only
Speaker 9: five thousand dollars.
Speaker 6: If there is coverage, they have to defend, so they
Speaker 6: have to pay the attorney feess hold one.
Speaker 4: That's very interesting.
Speaker 6: So even if the lawsuit, if you hired an attorney,
Speaker 6: could be fifty thousand dollars, but you only have five
Speaker 6: thousand dollars in coverage, they still have to spend fifty
Speaker 6: five thousand.
Speaker 4: If they lost.
Speaker 9: There you go yep, So they still have to defend. Now,
Speaker 9: what happens when you have very limited amount, they'll sometimes
Speaker 9: settle them.
Speaker 4: Well, now let's go back time.
Speaker 6: The fact that she had the wrong kind of coverage,
Speaker 6: she just had a typical homeowners Does that give them
Speaker 6: one hundred percent in out where they don't have to
Speaker 6: step in at all? And then I'll follow that with
Speaker 6: the second question, is there any exclusions in her policy
Speaker 6: that talk about mold and damages like this?
Speaker 9: Well, okay, so the first part of your question, I
Speaker 9: would say, yes, they're going to have a good case
Speaker 9: to get out of this from the simple fact that
Speaker 9: if it's a homewner policy, you can't sue yourself, so
Speaker 9: you're not that coverage isn't even there. Yeah, so having
Speaker 9: a tenant in this case dramatically changes.
Speaker 3: The risk, got it?
Speaker 9: And they're not going to cover something that's dramatically different
Speaker 9: than what the policy's written for. But secondly, what you
Speaker 9: sent me is essentially a declaration page, so it's not
Speaker 9: policy language, so I can't read the exclusions. You read
Speaker 9: her policy for exclusions. If you want to send me
Speaker 9: the full policy, I'd be happy to read it and
Speaker 9: I'll find it.
Speaker 4: I do want to clarify on one thing.
Speaker 6: So if there was a fire or a hailstorm, they
Speaker 6: probably would have coverage. But because this is a tenant
Speaker 6: and claiming that she would is not a good landlord,
Speaker 6: they can fight that and probably win it. But when
Speaker 6: you brought up the coverage aspect to that, what happens
Speaker 6: if I had someone living with me?
Speaker 4: For like I don't know.
Speaker 6: Like if Doc Doc's house burned down in a Boulder
Speaker 6: fire and he moved in with me for six months
Speaker 6: and there was mold in the room that I let
Speaker 6: Doc stay in and all of a sudden he's suing me.
Speaker 6: I would have coverage under that scenario, or at least
Speaker 6: they would have to defend me, is probably the better question.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean it's really hard because the whole issue
Speaker 9: of mold is crazy, is a crazy one, and so
Speaker 9: insurance companies have really started to write their policies associated
Speaker 9: with limiting themselves for things that they can't control. But
Speaker 9: in this case, an accidental you know, in that case.
Speaker 6: What's really crazy in this case, though, is none of
Speaker 6: that's really gonna matter because she probably has zero coverage. So, Tiffany,
Speaker 6: have you even you haven't even talked to your homeowner
Speaker 6: about this or I'm not sorry your your insurance company
Speaker 6: about this at all?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 13: I just filed a claim for the you know, when
Speaker 13: I got an estimate on how much it was going
Speaker 13: to cost to fix the drywall and everything.
Speaker 4: And they did that, right, or they haven't even answered
Speaker 4: the claim yet.
Speaker 13: They have something going out today. But I did lightly
Speaker 13: bring it up you know, Hey, yeah, you're.
Speaker 6: I think you heard everything Brian just said. I don't
Speaker 6: think you're going to have any coverage as far as
Speaker 6: the insurance company defending you in the lawsuit.
Speaker 4: Do you know what it says in the lawsuit? By
Speaker 4: the way, it.
Speaker 13: Just mainly they they're going after me for in habitable
Speaker 13: living conditions to where they had to break the lease
Speaker 13: and move. So they're suing me not only for like
Speaker 13: basically for that health stuff and then covering their rent
Speaker 13: for them.
Speaker 4: How much how much are we talking? Do you even know?
Speaker 13: If my attorney said anywhere from fifty to seventy thousand dollars,
Speaker 13: so they're.
Speaker 6: Sooner for fifty to seventy thousand. Hey, First of all,
Speaker 6: Brian Burns, I really appreciate you coming on. I know
Speaker 6: you're at an insurance conference and you got to get
Speaker 6: back to it, and I do appreciate it, Brian. But
Speaker 6: the Insurance helps Center, these guys will look at all
Speaker 6: your coverages.
Speaker 4: They'll look at them every year.
Speaker 6: They'll shop multiple companies find the best company for you.
Speaker 6: For example, if you have young drivers in the house,
Speaker 6: these guys will find the best policy to have the
Speaker 6: cheapest for you. Three oh three nine ninety six nine thousand,
Speaker 6: and I shouldn't have said cheapest the best coverage three
Speaker 6: oh three nine nine six nine thousand.
Speaker 4: Hey, get back to that conference, man, have fun.
Speaker 7: Oh, I see the mark.
Speaker 6: Thanks so so basically Tiffany Brad O'Brien. So they're saying
Speaker 6: fifty to seventy thousand dollars, let's talk about Tiffany.
Speaker 4: You don't know the breakdown.
Speaker 6: You have no idea what the breakdown is, because yes,
Speaker 6: yeah I do.
Speaker 13: It's attorney that includes attorney fees, that includes they are
Speaker 13: saying they want three months of their rent covered. Uh,
Speaker 13: they want food. They want basically room and board, food,
Speaker 13: everything covered for being put out of their current living
Speaker 13: of the current living situation due to inhabitable conditions.
Speaker 6: And how much is the health part? Do you ask
Speaker 6: the health aspect of it?
Speaker 13: They didn't break that down, so that was more of
Speaker 13: I think the strong arming cart trying to scare me.
Speaker 13: They never really went to the doctor. They just sent pictures.
Speaker 13: You know, my house is at eleven thousand feet, so
Speaker 13: that's you're going to have, you know, and especially in
Speaker 13: the winter time that dryness, you're going to have some
Speaker 13: blood in your in your finesses. Yeah, so they were
Speaker 13: sending me no.
Speaker 4: I yeah, I get all that. In the mold test
Speaker 4: came back negative, right exactly.
Speaker 13: But they were just sending me those are the only
Speaker 13: health pictures quote quote health pictures there.
Speaker 4: So hold on, we're going to we're going to take
Speaker 4: this break.
Speaker 6: Brad's got some questions here and thoughts on it, and
Speaker 6: I've got my own thoughts, and I I just think
Speaker 6: it's a shakedown.
Speaker 4: But you're gonna have to do something.
Speaker 6: That's the bottom line, even if they are shaking you down,
Speaker 6: if they filed the lawsuit, as soon as you get served, you're.
Speaker 4: Gonna have to answer it. And it's not gonna be cheap.
Speaker 12: Go with a sure thing Denver's best roofer Excel roofing
Speaker 12: dot com.
Speaker 15: You don't pay a cent until you're contenth.
Speaker 12: Time for an insurance check up free no obligation comparison
Speaker 12: call Compass Insurance paying too much your coverage at dozens
Speaker 12: of insurance companies find out Now three oh three, seven
Speaker 12: to seven to one help.
Speaker 15: You'll think you're his only customer.
Speaker 12: When you choose Frank durand the Real estate Man dot
Speaker 12: com to list your home with Remax Alliance three oh
Speaker 12: three nine two zero sixteen twenty two.
Speaker 6: All right, three oh three seven one three eight two
Speaker 6: five five three oh three Martino brand O'Brien, I'm gonna
Speaker 6: bring Tiffany back up and let's just kind of get
Speaker 6: through this once and for all. What are your thoughts
Speaker 6: on it? To me, it's a complete shakedown. They found
Speaker 6: an attorney and this is just my opinion, an unscrupulous
Speaker 6: attorney that is basically doing the shakedown.
Speaker 4: That's what I think.
Speaker 8: Well, when somebody is suing you for money, there's two components. First,
Speaker 8: is there causation, Did something that you do cause them
Speaker 8: injury or damage? And secondly, on damages, what are the damages?
Speaker 8: What are they from? They can't just make up a
Speaker 8: number and say I'm suing you for fifty thousand, yeah,
Speaker 8: when it might perhaps if they do have a reason
Speaker 8: for damages, it probably should be limited to something like,
Speaker 8: you know, alternative housing or the cost to move early,
Speaker 8: or whatever it is has me tied to something, not
Speaker 8: just some made up number.
Speaker 7: But back to causation.
Speaker 8: You know, if they want to take this to court,
Speaker 8: they're gonna have to prove to a judge or jury
Speaker 8: that this mold caused them some sickness or injury, and
Speaker 8: that's really hard to prove. You'd have to have expert
Speaker 8: testimony from a doctor probably to make that.
Speaker 7: That's a very extensive type of a quirkeet.
Speaker 4: That's where I go back to the shakedown.
Speaker 6: But at a curiosity, Tiffany, was it a frozen pipe?
Speaker 4: What would happen?
Speaker 13: It was last year, so it was you know, nobody
Speaker 13: wrote the plumber didn't really know. We just fixed the issue.
Speaker 13: It was a trusted summer and the issue was fixed.
Speaker 13: It just either according to the environmental report, it could
Speaker 13: have been something that started from that, or this is
Speaker 13: another big thing that I should bring that could have
Speaker 13: been causing the mold. They were doing taxidermy in my
Speaker 13: house and so that was also notated in the environmental report,
Speaker 13: and they were unhappy about that, and they actually.
Speaker 4: They were unhappy that ended up in the report.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and how would I'm just curious, how would taxidermy,
Speaker 6: how would stuffing a whatever?
Speaker 4: How would that create mold?
Speaker 13: They had from the report they had dead animals hanging
Speaker 13: in my house.
Speaker 8: Oh my god, they're probably using chemicals like fromaldehyde, all
Speaker 8: kinds of well they have to Yeah, that's not good
Speaker 8: for the air exactly.
Speaker 13: So in the report they said that that could have
Speaker 13: been contributing to them mold as well.
Speaker 4: Well, I don't think they'd be able to prove it.
Speaker 6: And this is just all thoughts. But when they here's
Speaker 6: where I keep going back and I feel.
Speaker 4: Horrible for it.
Speaker 6: They filed the case already, right, Yeah, so she's going
Speaker 6: to get served.
Speaker 4: Did you already get served today or what?
Speaker 13: I have not been served yet because I'm in the
Speaker 13: attorney I did have was like, this is kind of
Speaker 13: I just do a viction.
Speaker 14: Yeah, I recommend.
Speaker 6: That's what we were talking about, litigator, That's what we
Speaker 6: were talking about. So really, where I want to get
Speaker 6: real with you, Tiffany, is this They're going to serve
Speaker 6: you and you're going to have to hire an attorney.
Speaker 6: I mean, there's no way you're going to walk into court.
Speaker 6: You could end up losing that house. But I want
Speaker 6: to ask you a few things, and Brad, this is
Speaker 6: what kills me. I really truly believe it's a shakedown.
Speaker 6: In fact, I think they're just they might have been
Speaker 6: set up from the start. Well, I mean, but she
Speaker 6: doesn't have the money to defend this, So I mean,
Speaker 6: what does someone do in a case like this, And
Speaker 6: I got my own thoughts on it, but I want
Speaker 6: to hear yours. Let's pretend she's served tomorrow. She's they
Speaker 6: already filed it. You can go on to Lexus Andexas
Speaker 6: and it's filed. They just got a server and she's
Speaker 6: going to have to hire a counsel or basically answer
Speaker 6: the complaint.
Speaker 4: But she's not going to know what to do. She
Speaker 4: could get herself into deep trouble.
Speaker 8: Anyone contemplating being in a court case has to make
Speaker 8: a business decision about whether the cost of attorneys and
Speaker 8: experts and other court costs is worth the effort of
Speaker 8: trying to win that case.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean it's crazy, But is there any way
Speaker 6: if you go we talked frivolous, a frivolous lawsuit. People
Speaker 6: might say this is but if there's anything my understanding,
Speaker 6: if there's anything at all, meaning you know, it's possible
Speaker 6: they had a relationship, they had a contract, so it
Speaker 6: can't be frivolous in most cases.
Speaker 4: Would you agree?
Speaker 8: Yeah, Frivolous is a very strong word. It means absolutely
Speaker 8: devoid of any basis. In fact, if it's if there's
Speaker 8: some inkling of some facts that are in dispute that
Speaker 8: would that could be called a colorable claim, and that's
Speaker 8: a colorable claim is maybe not a strong claim, but
Speaker 8: it's some minimal amount of claim that makes it not frivolous.
Speaker 6: So so I guess where I'm going is her shaking
Speaker 6: her down? I mean, Dimitri, you and I have both
Speaker 6: gone to small claim scored a lot of times and
Speaker 6: if suited people, and we're somewhat familiar. We're not attorneys,
Speaker 6: but I mean we've been around this black we do
Speaker 6: this show.
Speaker 4: So I mean, what's your what's your take on all
Speaker 4: this so far?
Speaker 16: Well, you asked really two questions about what my experience
Speaker 16: is like and whether or not I'm concerned about being
Speaker 16: charged with credibly charged with frivolous actions, right, so I'm
Speaker 16: extremely concerned about that. I make sure that I have
Speaker 16: backup documentation for every claim I make. Yeah, Now, in
Speaker 16: her case, I mean, it's it's hard to say whether
Speaker 16: or not it's actually frivolous. I don't think they're going
Speaker 16: to complaint without having read the complaint itself.
Speaker 6: I don't think this. I don't think they would. I
Speaker 6: don't think this would get thrown out. I think she's
Speaker 6: going to end up hiring an attorney. Tiffany, what is
Speaker 6: your economic situation? It's not great, is it.
Speaker 13: I mean it's you know, how.
Speaker 4: Much echoity do you have in that house?
Speaker 13: A pretty good amount. I'm just worried, like I don't
Speaker 13: want I don't want to lose the house, you know,
Speaker 13: because that's that's an asset of mine. But with Brian's passing,
Speaker 13: you know, I was thinking about it just because I
Speaker 13: would like to maybe relocate. But that was the only reason.
Speaker 13: But as far as I am in the I.
Speaker 14: Am in the.
Speaker 13: Process of hiring someone. I do have someone that is
Speaker 13: overlooking the case and everything. So I have to give
Speaker 13: chin a you know, an agreement to hire her, right,
Speaker 13: I'm not really.
Speaker 4: What is it?
Speaker 6: Is it a personal injury attorney? What kind of attorney?
Speaker 13: Real estate litigator?
Speaker 4: Hold on a second, hold on, Tiffany, I got it.
Speaker 6: This is a hard break, by the way, people three
Speaker 6: O three seven one three eight two five five. We
Speaker 6: want to hear from you. You're complain to your questions.
Speaker 6: Three oh three Martino, another hour coming up.
Speaker 12: Go with a sure thing Denver's Best roofer Excel roofing
Speaker 12: dot com.
Speaker 15: You don't pay a cent until you're content.
Speaker 12: Time for an insurance check up free, no obligation comparison
Speaker 12: call Compass Insurance paying too much your coverage at dozens
Speaker 12: of insurance companies find out now three oh three seven
Speaker 12: seven one help. You'll think you're his only customer when
Speaker 12: you choose Frank durand the real estate Man dot com
Speaker 12: to list your home with Remax Alliance.
Speaker 15: Three oh three nine two zero sixteen twenty two.
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Speaker 6: By the way, in studio with me Brad O'Brien olslaw
Speaker 6: dot com. He's a real estate attorney, commercial, residential, pretty
Speaker 6: much anything. Now, let me recap very quick. Tiffany's a landlord.
Speaker 6: She's getting shaken down, in my opinion, by some tenants
Speaker 6: at hired an attorney. We found out a little bit
Speaker 6: about the attorney that filed the complaint, and what did
Speaker 6: you find out about him? He's basically only been an
Speaker 6: attorney for a year Dmitri.
Speaker 16: Yeah, he graduated from Dulah last year and he's not
Speaker 16: a personal injury attorney according to his bio and Java
Speaker 16: real estate, Yeah, real.
Speaker 10: Estate, commercial transactions, stuff like that.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's very curious, Hey, Tiffany, A couple questions how
Speaker 6: much was the rent? Thirty five hundred, So Brad O'Brien
Speaker 6: was asking that because we're trying to figure out how
Speaker 6: it gets to fifty to seventy thousand under any scenario
Speaker 6: like this, right, So.
Speaker 13: Nothing was stated like that. That was more of the
Speaker 13: estimate my attorney told me because of they basically tried
Speaker 13: to settle with me for twenty five thousand. I said,
Speaker 13: if I did that, Tyler Hollenbach the attorneys that if
Speaker 13: I did not settle for twenty five thousand, these costs
Speaker 13: a double if not triple.
Speaker 6: Yeah, wow, Okay, But I there's two things here. One,
Speaker 6: there's two. There's really only two things, And Brad, I
Speaker 6: want you to chime in, but one, when you get served,
Speaker 6: you're either going to have tire and attorney trying to
Speaker 6: do this yourself.
Speaker 4: You're going to end up just so upside down. It's
Speaker 4: going to be crazy.
Speaker 6: I've seen it personally, I've heard stories about it on
Speaker 6: the air a million times. But you're either going to
Speaker 6: have to hire an attorney. I've got some good ideas
Speaker 6: for you on what attorney, and I would say, a
Speaker 6: personal injury attorney.
Speaker 4: Who else would you say would defend this?
Speaker 6: And you were Tiffany, didn't you say you were talking
Speaker 6: to somebody, but it was a real estate attorney. For
Speaker 6: the life of me, I have no idea why you
Speaker 6: would hire a real estate attorney for this.
Speaker 4: Brad, what's your opinion on that you're a real estate attorney.
Speaker 8: Yeah, this is no longer really a real estate litigation matter.
Speaker 8: This is not a viction or habitability because they've moved out.
Speaker 8: This is a money dispute. So any general litigator could
Speaker 8: handle this.
Speaker 6: Ye, why would you use the real estate attorney Tiffany?
Speaker 13: I think when interviewing her, she had dealt with a
Speaker 13: lot of landlord tenant trials.
Speaker 4: She has a lot of experience with that.
Speaker 13: Okay, sort of it.
Speaker 6: So she's a litigator and she both sides of the fence.
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, y well, I mean that's good hopefully.
Speaker 6: The only other thing I would say to you, but
Speaker 6: I think you have too much assets. That house is
Speaker 6: in a nice place depending on your assets bankruptcy And
Speaker 6: the only reason I even bring that up if you
Speaker 6: had little to no assets, most of the equity in
Speaker 6: that house would be shielded so they wouldn't be able
Speaker 6: to touch that.
Speaker 4: And if you didn't have any other money but yet had.
Speaker 6: Other debt like credit card debt or other debt, you
Speaker 6: might make the whole thing get away. But I think
Speaker 6: you could actually do that possibly, you know, in the future,
Speaker 6: if you had to, they if somehow they did get
Speaker 6: a huge judgment, go ahead, doc.
Speaker 11: Well, one of our morons actually said something interesting. Yeah,
Speaker 11: they lived there for twenty years without any problems. As
Speaker 11: soon as the tenants move in, who's in a taxidermy
Speaker 11: in the house. Yeah, with no ventilation and chemicals, all
Speaker 11: of a sudden they have problems. Wouldn't that also be
Speaker 11: a good thing to bring up.
Speaker 6: It's all the it's all the cost of the defense though.
Speaker 6: That that's what sucks about this to me, the whole case.
Speaker 6: If everything Tiffany's saying is just honest and straight up,
Speaker 6: and I believe her, I can't imagine having to hire
Speaker 6: an attorney.
Speaker 4: How much of a retainer are you going to have
Speaker 4: to pay?
Speaker 13: Tiffany three thousand and then she's three hundred an hour,
Speaker 13: which isn't bad, but she said the retainer could be
Speaker 13: it could require multiple retainers.
Speaker 6: Oh my god, you'll go through three thousand so quick
Speaker 6: you won't even blank.
Speaker 4: I mean, that's that's nothing.
Speaker 6: I mean, that's that's That's what irritates the hell out
Speaker 6: of me about this. It truly is a shakedown because
Speaker 6: they probably have some agreement with this attorney, Like either
Speaker 6: they know them and this is purely a guess. Either
Speaker 6: they know him, or he's doing it somewhat on contingency.
Speaker 4: He's a brand new attorney.
Speaker 6: It's not like he's got a bunch of you know,
Speaker 6: people out there that that are clients of his. I mean,
Speaker 6: maybe he does, I don't know, but to me, it's
Speaker 6: a shakedown. And I feel horrible for you, Tiffany. And
Speaker 6: that's why I was saying maybe even the bankruptcy route,
Speaker 6: because how much can you throw at this. I mean,
Speaker 6: I don't want you to answer that question. You have
Speaker 6: equity in the house, and that's probably what they see
Speaker 6: in the long run, is the equity. But my god,
Speaker 6: this really sucks. I don't think they were injured by
Speaker 6: the mold. They hired a mold company that came out
Speaker 6: and basically said that there was no airborne mold.
Speaker 4: And I want to tell everybody something.
Speaker 6: Listen, by the time if this literally goes through discovery,
Speaker 6: if it went through discovery, and we're talking now, we
Speaker 6: have a mold company involved, there's one deposition you have, Tiffany,
Speaker 6: is going to be two depositions. You're gonna have both
Speaker 6: of those tenants, and then you're gonna have probably another
Speaker 6: expert tickets hired. Just that I'm throwing this out to
Speaker 6: Brad O'Brien, five depositions. Just take a guess each each
Speaker 6: person being deposed maybe an hour and that's being probably
Speaker 6: pretty generous, but let's say an hour or what do you.
Speaker 8: Think case like this, I think both each side would
Speaker 8: probably incurre at least twenty five thousand attorney phase.
Speaker 4: I think easily twenty five with.
Speaker 8: A prevailing party attorney feed provision. The loser may have
Speaker 8: to pay all both sides, so fifty So that's that's
Speaker 8: probably equal to or more than the amountain. That's even
Speaker 8: in dispute, which is crazy. So it's like the tailwag
Speaker 8: and the dog.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean that's it's like, what do you do
Speaker 4: in that case? What other?
Speaker 6: Just out of curious to Tiffany, then I'm gonna move
Speaker 6: on for now until you get served. But I mean,
Speaker 6: do you do you have a lot? I just don't
Speaker 6: want to even talk about it on the air. That's
Speaker 6: the other part. I don't want to ask her about
Speaker 6: her assets. But I'm just wondering about bankruptcy. I mean,
Speaker 6: because if if she was under the threshold, but she
Speaker 6: might be over with the equity in that house, I
Speaker 6: mean de equity could be massive.
Speaker 4: I mean, are you talking like three four hundred grand
Speaker 4: or more?
Speaker 14: Oh?
Speaker 4: Man, probably just so it's probably not even gonna be Uh.
Speaker 8: Are you thinking about the homestead of exemption? Yeah, no,
Speaker 8: that does not apply it to rental property only plast it's.
Speaker 6: Not a rental property. It's her main She's only been
Speaker 6: out of there for like four months. She lived there
Speaker 6: her whole life, or not her whole life. But how
Speaker 6: many years did you live there?
Speaker 13: No, I've lived in Breckner's for fifteen and then out
Speaker 13: of that home. I think it's in two thousand and
Speaker 13: seventeen October of twenty seventeen.
Speaker 4: So she lived there up until September, right.
Speaker 7: But she now moved out and is living somewhere else
Speaker 7: Where are.
Speaker 4: You living now? Yeah?
Speaker 13: So no, I moved out when Brian passed away.
Speaker 6: In oh she's been out of there for eighteen months.
Speaker 6: Lose that exemption as soon as you move out, So
Speaker 6: that's it. Oh my god, Dear Tiffany, I just can't
Speaker 6: believe this.
Speaker 10: The person.
Speaker 6: Well, you have an attorney, but man, I'm telling you,
Speaker 6: this could be. This could be a massive amount. I
Speaker 6: love Brad's opinion, but I don't think it's twenty five thousand.
Speaker 6: I think before you actually walk into a courtroom, I said,
Speaker 6: at least yeah, Okay, I'm saying like, I'm thinking you
Speaker 6: could be fifty plus deep in this. I've gone through
Speaker 6: like four or five depositions in one case, and I
Speaker 6: was one hundred and fifty grand in so I mean,
Speaker 6: let me give you an idea of that. It's insane money. Wow,
Speaker 6: it's insane. I mean, really, it's insane. I mean, what
Speaker 6: would you do, Dimitri? Honestly, it's not First of all,
Speaker 6: I'm gonna I just want to tell you this. It's
Speaker 6: not frivolous. It's not frivolous. They live there, and I
Speaker 6: get it.
Speaker 4: It's bogus.
Speaker 6: I think it's a shakedown. That's my opinion. But just
Speaker 6: throw that argument out. Let's just say the judge goes, nope.
Speaker 4: We're moving forward. I mean, what do you do.
Speaker 6: I guess you just defend yourself, You tap into the equity,
Speaker 6: you do whatever you have to do, and then hopefully,
Speaker 6: why do you think maybe she would recover let's say
Speaker 6: she wins, Brad, why do you think she might recover
Speaker 6: attorney's fees.
Speaker 8: If there is a prevailing party attorney fe provision in the.
Speaker 6: Least was there, Tiffany, Did the least you have with
Speaker 6: them have a prevailing attorney fees?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 14: God, you know what it might have.
Speaker 15: It might have.
Speaker 13: Actually I can't remember, to be honest, I just purchased
Speaker 13: a new lease agreement from an attorney that made it
Speaker 13: a little tighter because obviously mine is not. So I
Speaker 13: just I can't remember if there was or not.
Speaker 4: Can you send that over to us?
Speaker 13: Absolutely?
Speaker 6: All right, So listen, I mean, you hired an attorney.
Speaker 6: Just keep us, just keep us in the loop. There's
Speaker 6: really not much we can do. The only thing I
Speaker 6: want to do right now is just educate you. It's
Speaker 6: not going to be three thousand bucks. That's unless they
Speaker 6: come up with a settlement or something.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's just crazy. That's what the shakedown is. Guys.
Speaker 6: You know, what is she going to do? Spend fifty
Speaker 6: thousand on an attorney or pay him twenty five?
Speaker 4: What do you do? People go, oh, well, i'd never
Speaker 4: let that happen. Well, what do you do?
Speaker 6: At some point everything's in economic accountit orders.
Speaker 11: I'll give you fifteen right now to go away.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't know. Maybe it's a true shakedown. Tiffany,
Speaker 6: Please you got my personal number. Pap us in the
Speaker 6: loop three oh three seven one three A two five five.
Speaker 6: Any questions you have for Brad O'Brien, any things you
Speaker 6: want to talk about, We want to hear from you
Speaker 6: right now three zero three Martina will be right back.
Speaker 12: Go with a sure thing Denver's best rufer Excel Roofing
Speaker 12: dot com.
Speaker 15: You don't pays cent until you're content than.
Speaker 12: Time for an insurance check up free no obligation comparison
Speaker 12: call Compass Insurance paying too much your coverage at dozens
Speaker 12: of insurance companies find out now three oh three seven
Speaker 12: seven to one help. You'll think you're his only customer
Speaker 12: when you choose Frank Durand the real estate Man dot
Speaker 12: com to list your home with Remax Alliance three oh
Speaker 12: three nine two zero sixteen twenty two.
Speaker 15: All right, Frank Duran, the real estate Man.
Speaker 6: My talk to Frank last night. He is a great guy,
Speaker 6: absolutely a great guy. I'm going to keep it somewhat
Speaker 6: confidential what we talked about, but he is one of
Speaker 6: the nicest guys I've ever met. He's incredible and as
Speaker 6: far as a real estate guy, he's remarkable. He sold
Speaker 6: our house in Castle Rock for more than that same
Speaker 6: model went at the same time anywhere in Red Hawk.
Speaker 4: It was crazy. That was the name of the neighborhood.
Speaker 6: And then when he negotiated our new house, he made
Speaker 6: a unbelievable offer and he came up with it how
Speaker 6: we could save a ton of money, and it worked.
Speaker 6: I mean, the bottom line was, we made a cash offer,
Speaker 6: and we did it quick and only gave him like
Speaker 6: twenty four hours to think about it, the whole bit.
Speaker 6: I mean, but he came up with that game plan
Speaker 6: and I'll be danged, it worked. It simply worked, and
Speaker 6: it was the best Frank Duran Holmes dot com. So
Speaker 6: I do want to ask our attorney in studio, Brad O'Brien. Brad,
Speaker 6: I mean, you know, I do look at that as
Speaker 6: a shakedown. No matter what, it doesn't matter, we're not
Speaker 6: going back to Tiffany. But it's so unfortunate there. I mean,
Speaker 6: I have no idea what you do in a circumstance
Speaker 6: like that. I guess you end up hiring an attorney
Speaker 6: and you fight. But if she doesn't even have a
Speaker 6: clause in that lease, and we're gonna look at that
Speaker 6: least later for attorney's fees to the winning party. I mean, god,
Speaker 6: I mean it could cost twenty five to fifty thousand
Speaker 6: and she did nothing wrong.
Speaker 4: It literally could end up that way.
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's really a business decision that the that anybody
Speaker 8: has to think about before they get into a court case.
Speaker 8: And you have to think about what's the what are
Speaker 8: your chances of winning if you win, how much can
Speaker 8: you win if you lose, how much can you lose?
Speaker 8: What are the attorney fees to get that win? And
Speaker 8: is it worth it? You know, if you were gonna
Speaker 8: spend five thousand attorney fees to win like twenty.
Speaker 7: Five, maybe that's a good deal.
Speaker 4: Yeah, good bet.
Speaker 8: But if you're gonna spend twenty five to win five,
Speaker 8: that's ridiculous.
Speaker 6: Don't you hate the fact though? Like these kind of shakedowns,
Speaker 6: I mean, really remember the one. I think you were
Speaker 6: involved with it for a little bit. I'm not going
Speaker 6: to get in the names or anything, but you know,
Speaker 6: the guy's wife died and someone bought the house and
Speaker 6: he had like a camera in the house.
Speaker 4: This is the craziest story ever.
Speaker 6: So he actually don't ask me why he had a
Speaker 6: camera in his ex wife's house, but she knew about it,
Speaker 6: and he was an attorney and he moved out of state,
Speaker 6: older guy, and I think he was actually disbarred at
Speaker 6: one point from Colorado. But the bottom line was he
Speaker 6: bought the house and this attorney basically made it to
Speaker 6: where they didn't get to move into that house for
Speaker 6: like a year. You know which one I'm talking about.
Speaker 6: I mean, to me, that's a shakedown. I mean, wouldn't
Speaker 6: you agree. I mean to me, once again, frivolous is
Speaker 6: a hard word to throw out, but my god.
Speaker 4: I mean, he was saying, it's my house. It was
Speaker 4: just nuts.
Speaker 6: They literally didn't have access or use of that house
Speaker 6: for a long time. I don't In fact, I haven't
Speaker 6: talked to that caller in a while. But I mean,
Speaker 6: I don't even know if they still own the house
Speaker 6: or if they sold it. But it was so bad
Speaker 6: I don't even think she wanted to move into it
Speaker 6: at the end.
Speaker 4: The wife.
Speaker 8: Yeah, people can use the courts to cause delays that
Speaker 8: make it tough for the other side. If the other
Speaker 8: side really needs to sell quickly and the other side
Speaker 8: starts some action that may not be very strong, but
Speaker 8: it's enough to cause a delay that might get them
Speaker 8: a settlement that they otherwise wouldn't get.
Speaker 11: Brad, what do you think about my suggestion to make
Speaker 11: them account offer? I mean, if she count offers, I'll
Speaker 11: give you fifteen thousand.
Speaker 4: That's what you're looking for.
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, somebody count somebody cannot afford to take a
Speaker 8: case all the way through trial probably ought to be
Speaker 8: talking about a settlement.
Speaker 4: Well doesn't that That's where I go back. That sucks
Speaker 4: so bad.
Speaker 7: That's how it works.
Speaker 4: It's just I know that's how it works. I mean,
Speaker 4: I get that's how it works. You know.
Speaker 6: There's been a few times where we've been sued and
Speaker 6: basically for saying something and it has got thrown out.
Speaker 6: We called a slapsuit because they're saying, oh, you know,
Speaker 6: they called me a scumbag or whatever it happens to be.
Speaker 6: And the bottom line is it just comes down to opinion,
Speaker 6: and in a slapsuit, when it gets tossed out, you
Speaker 6: can get attorney's views. In fact, one time someone brought
Speaker 6: a lawsuit against Tom Oh this was crazy. Not only
Speaker 6: did the judge throw it out, but he got attorney's
Speaker 6: fees that he had to pay, and he ended up
Speaker 6: with the woman's condo he literally she sued him. It
Speaker 6: was frivolous. Basically it was a slapsuit. There was no
Speaker 6: merit behind it. The judge not only and this is
Speaker 6: when it got to court. It was in court the
Speaker 6: judge threw the thing out, granted attorney's fees.
Speaker 4: She didn't have the money she had.
Speaker 6: Basically an attorney friend that was working for didn't have
Speaker 6: the money, and he foreclosed down her condo eventually.
Speaker 4: I mean, think about that. It's crazy.
Speaker 6: But in a case like this, I mean, you're right, Brad,
Speaker 6: it's an economic decision.
Speaker 11: Was you a Brad explained what a slapsuit is?
Speaker 6: Well, it's basically technically in Colorado, there really isn't a slapsuit.
Speaker 6: It's something with very little merit. In other words, you
Speaker 6: sue me for giving my opinion on the air.
Speaker 4: There's one.
Speaker 6: I'm not going to get into what that particular one
Speaker 6: was about.
Speaker 4: I'll tell you.
Speaker 6: One that was close. Okay, you want to hear one
Speaker 6: a couple of years ago. Actually was it during COVID
Speaker 6: with the dance Studio?
Speaker 4: Uh right, yeah, I believe so.
Speaker 2: It was.
Speaker 6: This one was a big one. People that had been
Speaker 6: listening to the show for a while Brad. You probably
Speaker 6: don't know this, but so we did a show. This
Speaker 6: woman calls up and says, hey, they're discriminating. This dance
Speaker 6: studio is discriminating against my kids. And are kids where
Speaker 6: I believe transgender and they're discriminating or the kids were gay,
Speaker 6: I forget transgender gay something like that. And first of all,
Speaker 6: just on the face of it, it sounds crazy because
Speaker 6: when you think of a dance studio, you don't think
Speaker 6: that would be an issue whatsoever. Dragon, you were in
Speaker 6: that phone call, would we You don't even know this
Speaker 6: part when when they sued us.
Speaker 4: Do you remember the dance studio? Yeah, something about the
Speaker 4: daughter being not yes, And it was years ago conversation
Speaker 4: you probably don't even know.
Speaker 6: We got suit on that. We don't tell people when
Speaker 6: we get dude. We literally got sued on. Now it
Speaker 6: was crazy. I mean, it was absolutely nuts. But I'm
Speaker 6: going back what a slapsuit is doc. So they were
Speaker 6: saying we ran him out of business. They said because
Speaker 6: of this radio show and this woman calling that, we
Speaker 6: ran him out of business, literally ran him out of business.
Speaker 6: The dance studio closed up. Well, a couple things. One
Speaker 6: the reason it did close up and it did close up.
Speaker 6: Had nothing to do with us. I had to do
Speaker 6: with COVID. COVID closed him up. It was during COVID.
Speaker 6: Literally they couldn't have a dance studio. So it had
Speaker 6: nothing to do with us in the phone call. But
Speaker 6: they threatened to shake us down.
Speaker 4: Doc.
Speaker 6: They wanted I think fifty thousand, and we're like, there's
Speaker 6: no way.
Speaker 4: We didn't do anything. We can have an opinion.
Speaker 6: In fact, if you listen to it, remember how Donald
Speaker 6: Trump said a perfect call. Remember the perfect call he made.
Speaker 6: We had a perfect call. It was one hundred percent
Speaker 6: of perfect call. And we knew the attorneys they weren't
Speaker 6: even attorneys to deal with this stuff, Dmitri. They it
Speaker 6: was like, I don't you remember, like a family law
Speaker 6: attorney or something had nothing to do with this kind
Speaker 6: of thing.
Speaker 4: Slander, It had nothing to do with it.
Speaker 6: So they want they try to shake us down for
Speaker 6: fifty Then it went down to twenty five, and then
Speaker 6: finally we just said, you know, we had our attorney say,
Speaker 6: you know what, just sue us.
Speaker 4: We're done.
Speaker 6: We're going to do it, and basically he told her,
Speaker 6: and what's going to happen is you're going to walk
Speaker 6: into court and we're going to end up getting our
Speaker 6: attorney's fees, and we're going to take every single thing
Speaker 6: you have. I'm going to take your house, your car,
Speaker 6: anything you have. And that's our stance. That was our response. Basically,
Speaker 6: they didn't file the suit, but they kept threatening to,
Speaker 6: and our attorney basically wrote him a letter saying, that's
Speaker 6: exactly what we're going to do. We would love, absolutely
Speaker 6: love for you to sue us, and we're going to
Speaker 6: take every damn sent you have. And they never they
Speaker 6: never filed the case and went away, but they tried
Speaker 6: to do it. That's what basically a slapsuit is. In Colorado,
Speaker 6: there's technically not a slapsuit, and some states there are,
Speaker 6: but it's exactly what I think that those tenants are
Speaker 6: doing to her. But the problem is we had the money,
Speaker 6: of course, to hire an attorney, and we have the
Speaker 6: money to go through with it. Most people aren't going
Speaker 6: to have that kind of dope like that poor Tiffany.
Speaker 6: So a slapsuit is just you're shaking someone down. Okay,
Speaker 6: does that happen.
Speaker 4: In real estate? I mean, really, Brad, I mean does
Speaker 4: that happen a lot or no?
Speaker 8: Well, a slapsuit is a law suit with little or
Speaker 8: no merits that's done to chill discussion or chill the
Speaker 8: negative publicity that somebody might basically quiet them down.
Speaker 6: Yeah so yeah, I mean, but it's just nuts to me.
Speaker 6: I think back on that dance studio and I just
Speaker 6: want to I don't know, but it is. It was
Speaker 6: a shakedown, and you know, we just have the means
Speaker 6: to stand up to it. But that one I was
Speaker 6: talking about with Tom. You know, Tom's been sued personally
Speaker 6: quite a bit over the years, and he's won every case,
Speaker 6: never lost case, never lost a case, and most of
Speaker 6: the time the other person ends up in really really
Speaker 6: bad situation. I got to take a break, Dennis, I'll
Speaker 6: come to you. And whoever's online two three oh three
Speaker 6: seven one three eight two five y five.
Speaker 12: Go with a sure thing Denver's Best Roofer Excel roofing
Speaker 12: dot com.
Speaker 15: You don't pay a cent until you're content.
Speaker 12: Time for an insurance check up, free, no obligation comparison
Speaker 12: call Compass Insurance paying too much your coverage at dozens
Speaker 12: of insurance companies find out now three oh three seven
Speaker 12: to seven to one help You'll think you're his only
Speaker 12: customer when you choose Frank durand the real estate man
Speaker 12: dot com to list your home with Remax Alliance three
Speaker 12: oh three nine two zero sixteen twenty two.
Speaker 6: All right, three oh three seven one three eight two
Speaker 6: five five off here, I was reminiscing about shakedowns. I mean, really,
Speaker 6: today's topic to me is shakedowns. I'm gonna go right
Speaker 6: to the phones. But the shakedown is horrible. Anybody out
Speaker 6: there that ever receives a letter, and it's not as
Speaker 6: prominent as it used to be. But one of the
Speaker 6: letters saying hey, you downloaded a movie or you downloaded
Speaker 6: back in the day was called wasn't it Napster? Yeah,
Speaker 6: naps That was.
Speaker 10: The big one.
Speaker 16: But this was a big deal about twenty years ago.
Speaker 16: Maybe thousands of people were getting sued all the time
Speaker 16: by RHEA, remember their Record Industry Association.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, they're going.
Speaker 16: After grandmothers for hundreds of thousands of dollars breach their
Speaker 16: grandkids without the grandmother's knowledge, were downloading from Napster and
Speaker 16: everything else.
Speaker 6: And what I was telling Demitrius that happened to me
Speaker 6: on a movie. I don't think it was that company,
Speaker 6: but it was some slee's Ball attorney, and the bottom
Speaker 6: line was you just don't answer. I knew a friend
Speaker 6: that answered literally said, well, I didn't do it, maybe
Speaker 6: someone was on my WiFi.
Speaker 4: His answer actually.
Speaker 6: Incriminated him, Yeah it did, which was crazy, and they
Speaker 6: shook him down for ten grand.
Speaker 4: But you don't. You don't even reply.
Speaker 6: But how it typically works is, at least back the day,
Speaker 6: and I'm saying last fifteen years, they'll go to century Link,
Speaker 6: or they'll go to Xfinity, whoever your internet is, and
Speaker 6: they'll go there with the court order saying hey IP
Speaker 6: one nine two one six eight that five dot eight.
Speaker 6: Of course that's a local but I mean an actual
Speaker 6: IP address. You guys own that Class C that's one
Speaker 6: of your IP addresses, and this court order says you
Speaker 6: must give us information on it. So then century Link
Speaker 6: has to give them information on who was using that
Speaker 6: IP on their system at that time, and then it
Speaker 6: comes back to whomever they're going after. At that point,
Speaker 6: they won't release the name. So you're John Doe. So
Speaker 6: if CenTra, if this shady attorney's coming after you, you'll get
Speaker 6: a letter that's basically the John Doe that's basically saying
Speaker 6: you're going to pay up, or we're going to take
Speaker 6: you to court. And then the next thing that would
Speaker 6: happen is they might literally take you to court if
Speaker 6: they think they can win on it. But I mean,
Speaker 6: you're right, that was a huge deal back in the day.
Speaker 16: Sounds mark like this letter that you received didn't have
Speaker 16: your name on it, or I was John Doe.
Speaker 10: Oh that's how it was a dress.
Speaker 6: Literally I was no that, No, I was literally John Doe,
Speaker 6: literally John Doe. Have you ever heard of a John
Speaker 6: Doe lawsuit, Brad O'Brien where you don't know who the
Speaker 6: who the player, or who the defendant is yet.
Speaker 8: I've never named somebody's John Doe, but sometimes on real
Speaker 8: estate actions you'd name any and all interested parties who
Speaker 8: are not known.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I got you.
Speaker 6: So when they they know it's somebody that they're going after,
Speaker 6: but they don't know the name yet, you're John Doe,
Speaker 6: and they can literally file a John Doe lawsuit.
Speaker 4: And then when they.
Speaker 6: File it, they'd go back to Century Link and figure
Speaker 6: out exactly who you are, and then you would turn
Speaker 6: into John Doe. But it's literally a John Doe John
Speaker 6: Doe lawsuit. Hey Dennis, what's going on with you. And
Speaker 6: by the way, two lines open three oh three seven
Speaker 6: one three eight two five five pick Brad's brain. In fact,
Speaker 6: I know Dimitri's got some questions for him. But hey, Dennis,
Speaker 6: what's going on?
Speaker 18: I think he answered one of my questions during the breaks.
Speaker 18: That's eight eight eight heating.
Speaker 3: Oh.
Speaker 18: I wanted to know what you're talking about the other day.
Speaker 18: And I think that's the one where you say they
Speaker 18: come out and they'll do repairs and they don't always
Speaker 18: try to talk to you into a new furnace.
Speaker 4: Yeah, how old your furnace? I do have a few
Speaker 4: questions for you.
Speaker 18: Well, it's twenty years old, but it's a it's really
Speaker 18: a good furnace. And I heated it for several years
Speaker 18: with wood.
Speaker 3: So I didn't even use them that much.
Speaker 6: So it doesn't have a lot of hours on it,
Speaker 6: if you will. What's wrong with it? Simply doesn't turn on.
Speaker 18: No, there's nothing wrong right now. I just want I
Speaker 18: like to backup numbers in my phone in case something
Speaker 18: does go wrong.
Speaker 4: Hey, Dennis, I'm going to tell you something.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 4: Have you've never called eight eight eight before? Have you?
Speaker 18: No, I've never called any heating company.
Speaker 6: Listen, what area are you in just roughly up north
Speaker 6: where North Denver. Okay, listener, check it out, man, call
Speaker 6: them up. Say you want the Troubleshooter Special. Okay, forty
Speaker 6: five bucks. They're gonna come out to that furnace. It's
Speaker 6: running right now, works good, right. Oh, they're gonna listen,
Speaker 6: they're gonna tear it apart. They're gonna get all the
Speaker 6: dirt out of it. They're gonna clean the blower. They're
Speaker 6: gonna look at the heat exchanger and make sure it's clean.
Speaker 6: They're gonna do they're gonna basically do a tune up
Speaker 6: if anything. I mean it's you know, technically not a
Speaker 6: tune up because they're not really throwing any parts on it.
Speaker 6: But they're gonna clean the heck out of it and
Speaker 6: they'll do all of it. They're gonna be there an
Speaker 6: hour to two hours, man, and it's only gonna cost
Speaker 6: you forty five dollars. And then they'll put a sticker
Speaker 6: on there. They'll give you the no breakdown guarantee. But
Speaker 6: it's only for new customers. They want to prove to you,
Speaker 6: of course you know how great they are. Then you know,
Speaker 6: if something does break in the FEU. The future either
Speaker 6: that furnace or your air conditioner or your water heater.
Speaker 4: You know, you know who to call. That's why they
Speaker 4: do it. But it's the real deal.
Speaker 6: It's not the deal like where you just, you know,
Speaker 6: call someone up for a thirty nine dollars tune up
Speaker 6: or a nineteen dollars tune up and all of a sudden,
Speaker 6: all they're saying is, oh, you need a new furnace.
Speaker 6: It's nothing like that. It's the real deal. But what's
Speaker 6: your second question?
Speaker 18: And the second one is I think it was this
Speaker 18: week you're talking to some guy that called him he
Speaker 18: wanted a wind shield for his older pickup, and then
Speaker 18: some other guy called in and said that he was windshield.
Speaker 13: Oh yeah, Mark, it was the gentleman with the classic
Speaker 13: nineteen ninety three car and he Phil and he wanted
Speaker 13: the original Oe had.
Speaker 10: Thirty thousand miles.
Speaker 6: Thirty thirty seven thousand miles, forty four thousand miles seven
Speaker 6: forty seven thousand, Yeah, and he wanted that. Yeah, you're
Speaker 6: absolutely right. What did you want that guy's number they
Speaker 6: called in or what?
Speaker 2: No? I wanted that?
Speaker 18: I believe Kevin called in. He he was a guy
Speaker 18: that sounds like PPG. Yeah or something.
Speaker 4: Kelly, did we keep that guy's number, Susanne, I have
Speaker 4: it because I was doing that day.
Speaker 6: Here's the deal, though I don't like, I don't know
Speaker 6: anything about that guy. I don't mind giving it to
Speaker 6: you because you're asking. But I mean, that's what our
Speaker 6: referral list is all about. I get to know the people.
Speaker 6: Tom gets to know the people. We background check them
Speaker 6: and they sign a code of ethics. So I don't
Speaker 6: know anything about this guy, but he does seem legit.
Speaker 6: He seemed to know about windshields and Suzanne, we'll give
Speaker 6: you the number off air, but really what I should
Speaker 6: do is have one of our salespeople reach out to
Speaker 6: him to get him on referral list. And that goes
Speaker 6: for any business out there. Really, that's why we can
Speaker 6: refer you. We talk to you, we get to know you.
Speaker 6: In fact, most new referral list members, Dimitrio, I don't you.
Speaker 6: You're kind of new to the team. I don't know
Speaker 6: if you even know this. Most of them we bring
Speaker 6: into studio, oh.
Speaker 10: Tons of them.
Speaker 16: I mean I work here alongside of one of our experts,
Speaker 16: so almost every day, oh every day.
Speaker 6: But I'm saying, like, if this windshield guy goes through
Speaker 6: the hoops, oh yeah, and gets on referral list. We'll
Speaker 6: generally have him in at least the first time to
Speaker 6: introduce the audience.
Speaker 10: That'd be awesome.
Speaker 6: So Dannis, hold on, we're gonna give that to you
Speaker 6: off air, all right. And then Dean's got a question
Speaker 6: on a John Doe lawsuit tests that's very curious. Or
Speaker 6: he's got a comment. I wonder if he got hit
Speaker 6: with one of those. Everybody, hang tight, we have a
Speaker 6: couple lines open. Three oh three seven one, three eight
Speaker 6: two five five. I'd love to talk to you, waiting
Speaker 6: to hear from you. Three oh three Martino.
Speaker 12: Go with a sure thing Denver's Best roofer Excel Roofing
Speaker 12: dot com.
Speaker 15: You don't pay a cent until you're content than.
Speaker 12: Time for an insurance check up, free no obligation comparison
Speaker 12: call Compass Insurance paying too much your coverage at dozens
Speaker 12: of insurance companies find out now three oh three, seven
Speaker 12: to seven to one help. You'll think you're his only
Speaker 12: customer when you choose Frank durand the real estate Man
Speaker 12: dot com to list your home with Remax Alliance three.
Speaker 15: Oh three nine two zero sixteen twenty two.
Speaker 4: All right, three three seven two five.
Speaker 6: Dean had a comment on the John Doe lawsuit we
Speaker 6: were talking about.
Speaker 4: Basically, John Doe lawsuit.
Speaker 6: Is if you don't know who the defendant is or
Speaker 6: their true name. You know who it is, but you
Speaker 6: don't know their actual name, or possibly a statute of
Speaker 6: limitations is getting ready to run out and you don't
Speaker 6: know them.
Speaker 4: That's another reason to file one.
Speaker 6: And then maybe sometimes to protect someone's identity. I guess
Speaker 6: maybe like in the example of a rape case or
Speaker 6: something along those lines.
Speaker 4: I'm not exactly sure on that part, but go ahead.
Speaker 4: What's your comment?
Speaker 3: Okay? You there?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm here, Dean.
Speaker 3: All right, you've got a real estate attorney with you.
Speaker 4: Correct, yes, right next to me.
Speaker 3: Is he familiar with the Conoradic Immigrant Tenant Protection Act?
Speaker 7: No, I'm not.
Speaker 4: What is it, Dean?
Speaker 3: Well, it has to do with a lawsuit was filed
Speaker 3: the end of last month in a rap A Hope,
Speaker 3: CA County buy some illegal immigrants that were renting an apartment.
Speaker 4: Hey, give me the name of that again. What is it?
Speaker 3: The Colorado Immigrant Pennant peck.
Speaker 4: And it passed legislation right, It's like it's a law.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a thirty eight DA twelve one two zero.
Speaker 4: Three thirty eight dash.
Speaker 6: That's so, that's what I needed instead of Google thirty
Speaker 6: eight dash twelve dot what.
Speaker 3: Twelve dash one two zero three b all.
Speaker 6: Right, I'm going to look it up. Keep going, So
Speaker 6: go ahead, give us the give us the information.
Speaker 3: All right. So, and I don't know anybody involved in
Speaker 3: this thing other than the plaintiffs are John Dealt. They're
Speaker 3: illegal immigrants that moved into an apartment building in Aurora.
Speaker 3: They gut behind on the rent and the guy that
Speaker 3: owns the apartment says, you pay the rent or I'm
Speaker 3: going to turn you into it. And they say to
Speaker 3: do that, and he says, on going though, if you
Speaker 3: don't pay the rent.
Speaker 6: Yeah, So if you cannot harass or intimidate a tenant,
Speaker 6: or retaliate against a tenant for exercising the tenants right
Speaker 6: opposing any conduct interfere with the tenants, right, I don't
Speaker 6: see anything about Well, I guess in a way, Brad O'Brien,
Speaker 6: that's kind of I mean, if you if you tell
Speaker 6: a tenant I'm gonna turn it's kind of like blackmail
Speaker 6: or extortion in a way, right, I mean, wouldn't that
Speaker 6: be wrong in most cases? Just and I'll let you
Speaker 6: keep talking in a second, dem But I'm very curious
Speaker 6: on this.
Speaker 3: Well, so him and his wife have sued the guy
Speaker 3: that owns the apartment, Yeah, based on that particular law,
Speaker 3: and his attorneys are the ACLU.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's a lot of money there, Okay, at least
Speaker 6: he used to be keep going.
Speaker 3: Well anyway again, and they've got a temporary shaking order
Speaker 3: right now to stay in there.
Speaker 4: And it's going roun right now.
Speaker 3: I told you it was filed the ends of January.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, t Well, I don't know what you do.
Speaker 6: I mean, first of all, if we're talking, it's actually
Speaker 6: a CRS and it is I'm looking at it. I mean,
Speaker 6: that's just what the law is right now. But Brad,
Speaker 6: give me some opinions on this.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 8: Colorado for housing purposes has several legally protected classes raised color, creed, sex, disability,
Speaker 8: but also national origin has has been one and that's
Speaker 8: I believe, separate from the statute that your color is referencing.
Speaker 8: I've not had the occasion to use the statute on immigration.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it says bring an action to recover possession of
Speaker 6: a dwelling unit based solely or in part of an
Speaker 6: immigration or citizenship status of a tenant. So they so
Speaker 6: honestly they weren't paying, and then he threatened to turn
Speaker 6: him into ICE, and then the ACL you got involved.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the plaintiffs are John Doe and Jane Doe.
Speaker 10: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's because there, that's true. That's exactly why they
Speaker 6: use it. What an interesting comment on what we were
Speaker 6: talking about.
Speaker 2: Dan.
Speaker 6: That really is to bring in that John Doe in
Speaker 6: that fashion. Hey, I appreciate that call.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 6: That's uh, that gives me food for thought. I don't
Speaker 6: know what to think of that. I don't think it's right.
Speaker 6: I don't think it's right.
Speaker 4: Well, if you're not getting paid, it sucks. Let's just
Speaker 4: do that.
Speaker 6: But there's legal ways to go about it, right, Brad,
Speaker 6: But can you how do you look at that?
Speaker 4: And I'll ask you after the break.
Speaker 6: But what I want you to think about, Brad, is like,
Speaker 6: if it's outside the immigration I get Hey, if you
Speaker 6: don't pay me, I'm going to call ICE to try
Speaker 6: to squeeze them so you get paid as a landlord.
Speaker 6: But that could be I can call your job and
Speaker 6: tell your boss you're a drunk and maybe he'll fire you.
Speaker 6: I mean, there's different ways you could kind of blackmail people.
Speaker 6: And I'm curious us if a if a landlord did that.
Speaker 6: Not just in the case that guy was talking about,
Speaker 6: but can you do that everybody?
Speaker 4: Whole time? We got another hour coming.
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Speaker 12: oh three nine two zero sixteen twenty two.
Speaker 2: News so you don't have come, runs just as fast
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Speaker 1: Shoot's gonna help coming man.
Speaker 5: This is the Troubleshooter Show. No, Tom Martinez, welcome you
Speaker 5: to you.
Speaker 4: The only show. If it's kind. We're here to solve
Speaker 4: your problem.
Speaker 6: Answer your questions, take your complaints, educate you, make your
Speaker 6: life a little bit better. We got a great group
Speaker 6: of people at referral list dot com, by the way,
Speaker 6: and they're just great people. They help us solve problems.
Speaker 6: In fact, over three hundred million dollars three hundred million
Speaker 6: dollars in cash, merchandise, exchanges, refund services over a long
Speaker 6: period of time, over forty years. If you have a problem,
Speaker 6: we want to hear from you. We want to recoup
Speaker 6: your money. God line's open three oh three seven one
Speaker 6: three eight two five five three oh three seven one
Speaker 6: three A two five five, or you can always email
Speaker 6: us at help at troubleshooter dot com. Now let's talk
Speaker 6: to Brad O'Brien, our guest today. Great guy. In fact, Brad,
Speaker 6: you've been with his years and years at this point,
Speaker 6: and you do real estate. The bottom line is if
Speaker 6: it's commercial, if it's residential, I don't care. If you're
Speaker 6: buying property, I don't care. If you're selling property. I
Speaker 6: don't care if you know someone's suing you after you
Speaker 6: close because they claim that you know you knew something,
Speaker 6: didn't disclose it. Leases for landlords out there, it's pretty
Speaker 6: complicated in Colorado, now right, I mean, honestly, it's not
Speaker 6: complicated to you. But in other words, if you're a landlord,
Speaker 6: my understanding is you can only raise the rent a
Speaker 6: certain amount of times per year. You can't really just
Speaker 6: kick a tenant out when the lease is up, as
Speaker 6: crazy as that is. But there's a lot of changes
Speaker 6: that have been made to Colorado law where there's a
Speaker 6: lot of leases out there that are probably I don't
Speaker 6: want to say invalid, but I mean they're just well,
Speaker 6: how would that work If you sign a lease saying
Speaker 6: you can raise rent every six month?
Speaker 4: That means nothing now right on.
Speaker 8: The resident On the residential side, we've had a lot
Speaker 8: of changes in the last couple of years about what
Speaker 8: has to be in the lease and what and limitations
Speaker 8: on landlords in if a landlord is required to update
Speaker 8: their lease, they don't have to go and change the
Speaker 8: lease in the middle of the like a year long lease,
Speaker 8: but at the next renewal, if they're gonna stick with
Speaker 8: that tenant, they have to use a lease form that
Speaker 8: complies with the law.
Speaker 6: But if let me ask you on that on that though,
Speaker 6: so let's say I have a lease that doesn't comply
Speaker 6: with the law, but they already signed it.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's not like it's grandfathered, right.
Speaker 7: No, it's not like.
Speaker 8: For example, pet deposits used to be you could us
Speaker 8: to say they could be non refundable, but now they
Speaker 8: have to be refundable less actual pets.
Speaker 6: So even though if they signed a lease that's perpetual
Speaker 6: and it's on its fifth year or whatever the terms are,
Speaker 6: it still doesn't matter. They have to refund the pet
Speaker 6: the pet deposit.
Speaker 7: Right.
Speaker 8: If there's a lease provision in an existing lease that
Speaker 8: says non refundable pet depot, that is no longer enforceable.
Speaker 6: But if there's things that are not enforceable, is different
Speaker 6: than making it invalid. So it's not necessarily the other
Speaker 6: provisions in there would become invalid because some are right.
Speaker 6: I mean, it's still it's still in the framework of
Speaker 6: a lease and the things that you can do it
Speaker 6: still covers.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 8: I think invalid probably means the same thing or equivalent
Speaker 8: to enforceable uninforceable. But there is one thing on a
Speaker 8: prevailing party attorney feed provisions where it used to be
Speaker 8: a one sided provision where it says if the landlord collects,
Speaker 8: they can get their attorney fees when they win.
Speaker 4: Oh, but the tenant couldn't.
Speaker 8: Yeah, but now the change of law says that that
Speaker 8: is no longer enforceable and it's void unless it's the
Speaker 8: two way attorney feed provision that either side prevails, they
Speaker 8: get their feast paid by the loser.
Speaker 4: You know, I actually think that's fair.
Speaker 6: I mean, you know, regardless, Yeah, it's kind of interesting
Speaker 6: that it was the other way before. But still, as
Speaker 6: a tenant, you didn't have to sign it. I mean, really,
Speaker 6: you could have negotiated that at the time. I mean,
Speaker 6: that would be the smart thing to do. Although most
Speaker 6: people aren't going to negotiate with an apartment complex.
Speaker 7: Right people.
Speaker 8: It's hard to find housing and good housing that's at
Speaker 8: a good rate, so people will But.
Speaker 6: No matter what, if I'm a tenant, I mean, let's
Speaker 6: just saw commercial property, then you look at a lot
Speaker 6: of those leases.
Speaker 4: If I am going to be someone's tenant.
Speaker 6: Anytime I have done a commercial lease, and I have
Speaker 6: done probably twenty of them, I have the attorney look
Speaker 6: at over. Okay, this is going back in my day.
Speaker 6: His name was Michael Kopez, great guy. So Kupez would
Speaker 6: go over the lease and then we would enter into
Speaker 6: negotiations whatever they were. It might say, for example, that
Speaker 6: they can increase it in the second year X amount,
Speaker 6: or it might say it could say anything. It doesn't matter,
Speaker 6: we would negotiate it. But you're right when it comes
Speaker 6: to consumer or residential, Yeah, apartment complexes aren't going to
Speaker 6: do really anything, are they.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's just not heard of. I mean they might,
Speaker 4: but I doubt it.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 8: I think on the commercial side, both sides should have
Speaker 8: an attorney. Oh, at leases, because they're the dollars that
Speaker 8: are at risk are much higher and there's more things
Speaker 8: that could be a cost that you wouldn't think of
Speaker 8: on the commercial side.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 6: And the other thing that we got to the point where,
Speaker 6: you know, we were our cash flow was good enough
Speaker 6: to where we didn't have to have personal guarantees on stuff.
Speaker 6: That's another big one. If you're a tenant, I mean,
Speaker 6: it depends on what side of the table you're on,
Speaker 6: But if you're a landlord, you're gonna want a personal
Speaker 6: guarantee in most circumstances. I mean, if you're if you're
Speaker 6: you know, leasing your building the Walmart or Microsoft, you're
Speaker 6: probably not going to care whatsoever, nor would you ever
Speaker 6: get a personal But if you're running to Joe Blow,
Speaker 6: that's you know, opening up an automotive shop, you're probably
Speaker 6: gonna want a personal right.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 8: If you're if you're leasing to a if you're a
Speaker 8: commercial lease a landlord, and you're leasing to a credit
Speaker 8: rated tenant like a company that's on the stock market, yeah, sure,
Speaker 8: you're looking to the credit rating of that tenant. So
Speaker 8: that's that's why you wouldn't get a personal guarantee there.
Speaker 6: What are some of the tricks that you've seen. Let's
Speaker 6: go on the landlord side. Were a landlord and let's
Speaker 6: just talk commercial. You do a ton of commercial I do,
Speaker 6: so let's talk some of the tricks. Like back in
Speaker 6: the day when I had computer stores, I would find
Speaker 6: a location, generally in a strip mall. I liked it
Speaker 6: next to a King Soupers, and I'd figure out who
Speaker 6: the landlord was, and then I'd engage in a conversation.
Speaker 6: So what kind of things can the landlord do to
Speaker 6: protect themselves? So right now you're on the landlord side,
Speaker 6: So something that might most people aren't going to think
Speaker 6: about in a commercial lease for a box like that,
Speaker 6: for like a radio shack size strip mall thing.
Speaker 8: Well, then I was negotiating what expenses for maintenance repairs
Speaker 8: are included in the rent. You know, if there's a
Speaker 8: base rent, does that include real estate taxes? Who's going
Speaker 8: to pay that bill? Is there a cap on year
Speaker 8: of a year increases?
Speaker 4: So on the tennis side.
Speaker 6: So on the tenant side though, or I'm sorry, on
Speaker 6: the landlord side, you would probably want to write it
Speaker 6: up like, you know, your rents five thousand a month
Speaker 6: or whatever it is, and then you break down, but
Speaker 6: they're going to pay for this, this, this, this, and
Speaker 6: this cam charges. They're going to pay whatever triple whatever
Speaker 6: it is. And a lot of people that are probably
Speaker 6: new to the business world might really not even understand
Speaker 6: that their rent could easily be six or seven thousand,
Speaker 6: not five thousand.
Speaker 8: Yeah, there's usually a base rent component and an additional
Speaker 8: rent component that is the operating expenses the program to
Speaker 8: share of that unit as compared to the percentage of
Speaker 8: the whole building.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and so the cam, the.
Speaker 7: Cam could be equal to the amount of the base rent.
Speaker 6: And then on the tenant side, if someone comes into
Speaker 6: you and says, hey, I'm going to lease this thing,
Speaker 6: what are you looking for in that least to protect
Speaker 6: your client.
Speaker 8: Tenants like to see that they have options to extend.
Speaker 8: If they start with five years, they want to have
Speaker 8: the right to have an additional five years at their option,
Speaker 8: and then they want to lock down. What's the rate
Speaker 8: going to be for those five years. Is it going
Speaker 8: to be based on market the market rate at the time,
Speaker 8: which is really wide open, or is it going to
Speaker 8: be based off of an increase from the last year
Speaker 8: of the first term.
Speaker 6: Yeah, And if you think about that, if you run
Speaker 6: a business and it's successful, and man, they'd really have
Speaker 6: you by the Cohunes at the end of that five years.
Speaker 4: Let's say it's a restaurant. Can you imagine that?
Speaker 6: I mean, a restaurant is something you travel to and
Speaker 6: you go eat there, and it's usually in your vicinity.
Speaker 6: And what happens is that five years comes up, you
Speaker 6: don't have any options. Even if the price goes up.
Speaker 6: You negotiated that. But if there is no options, they
Speaker 6: got you right, right, I mean really, and moving a
Speaker 6: restaurant is generally a failure.
Speaker 4: Do you rent anything, Dmitri No.
Speaker 10: I used to have a large production facility for my
Speaker 10: company that.
Speaker 4: You rented, or at least it proper least.
Speaker 16: Expired and I shut it down so I never had
Speaker 16: to move. But god, that would be a nightmare to
Speaker 16: move any kind of business, especially restaurant total.
Speaker 4: Do you ever deal with eminent domain?
Speaker 14: Umm?
Speaker 7: Not really no, but I know about it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, of course you do, but it's crazy. Anyhow, I
Speaker 6: gotta take this break. Three oh three seven one three
Speaker 6: eight two five five. We want to hear from you
Speaker 6: three two three Martino.
Speaker 12: Go with a sure thing Denver's best roofer Excel Roofing
Speaker 12: dot com. You don't pay a cent until you're contenth
Speaker 12: time for an insurance check up free, no obligation comparison
Speaker 12: call Compass Insurance paying too much your coverage at dozens
Speaker 12: of insurance companies find out now three oh three seven
Speaker 12: seven to one help. You'll think you're his only customer
Speaker 12: when you choose Frank durand the real estate Man dot
Speaker 12: com to list your home with Remax Alliance three oh
Speaker 12: three nine two zero sixteen twenty two.
Speaker 6: All right, three O three seven one three A two
Speaker 6: five five three oh three Martine. You know during the
Speaker 6: breaks we talk on YouTube a lot. I love giving
Speaker 6: information out and I'll go to that phone in a second.
Speaker 4: But you know, I think.
Speaker 6: The main part of this show is the educational value.
Speaker 6: No matter what, Helping people recouping money is what I
Speaker 6: love to my heart. But I was thinking back on
Speaker 6: a situation I had, and we have a real estate
Speaker 6: attorney in with us, Brad O'Brien and Brad. So this
Speaker 6: was like nineteen or two thousand and one. Suzanne and
Speaker 6: I sold our house in Clark Farms and Parker and
Speaker 6: we bought a new house in Castle Rock from Lenar.
Speaker 6: So if you I'm sure you've seen one hundred of them,
Speaker 6: the contracts with a new builder compared to buying like
Speaker 6: a house from each other a standard real estate agreement. Man,
Speaker 6: there couldn't be anything further away. I mean it's crazy.
Speaker 6: I mean some of the things you agree to are
Speaker 6: absolutely nuts. And every one of them's different. I mean, really,
Speaker 6: every single one's different. I would highly suggest, and i'd
Speaker 6: like your opinion, that you definitely get an attorney if
Speaker 6: you're buying a new home from I don't care if
Speaker 6: it's KB or Leonar or whoever it is, especially a
Speaker 6: custom builder. That could be completely different as well. What
Speaker 6: are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 8: I agree, I think a home builder contract is so
Speaker 8: complex and long and nuanced, and so many pitfalls in
Speaker 8: there that you really do have to have an attorney
Speaker 8: review that each and every time.
Speaker 4: The pitfalls are unbelievable.
Speaker 6: We've seen somewhere the house takes an extraordinary amount of
Speaker 6: time to get built and they're finally like two years
Speaker 6: down the road and they're like, this is crazy, but
Speaker 6: they couldn't get out.
Speaker 8: Typically, these contracts are quick to tie your earnest money up.
Speaker 8: They make it non refundable except for extremely limited circumstances.
Speaker 7: But they also and a lot of.
Speaker 6: Them will actually let the builder out with no oh yeah,
Speaker 6: with no issue. So in other words, you think the
Speaker 6: earnest money you're protected, they could get more.
Speaker 4: I've seen them. And tell me if you've seen.
Speaker 6: These where if they get offered more money for the house,
Speaker 6: they can sell your house.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 8: We saw that when the right after COVID, when the
Speaker 8: lumber prices went up and then the building prices in
Speaker 8: turn went up. In reaction to that, homebuilders were putting
Speaker 8: clauses in their contracts where they could actually increase the
Speaker 8: price on you mid mid construction.
Speaker 6: There was one in Colorado Springs. This was during COVID.
Speaker 6: It was probably. I'm going to say twenty twenty one,
Speaker 6: twenty twenty two. This was the craziest thing. We had
Speaker 6: eight people in the same condo that was being built
Speaker 6: in Colorado Springs, so it's a high rise condo. They
Speaker 6: sold the units. I'm making numbers up now because I
Speaker 6: don't remember, but I think they were around two hundred
Speaker 6: and fifty thousand. They had that exact clause you're talking
Speaker 6: about in there. When they got almost ready to go
Speaker 6: and they were done, they said, well, I know it
Speaker 6: was two fifty, but this clause right here, it costs
Speaker 6: more money to build. We want three hundred and twenty
Speaker 6: five thousand, now seventy five thousand more dollars. And none
Speaker 6: of these people understood how they could possibly do that,
Speaker 6: but they did do it. We had attorneys involved, we
Speaker 6: have everything. There's nothing anybody could do, and some people
Speaker 6: simply couldn't afford the higher mortgage, which is insane.
Speaker 4: So they ended up getting their earnest money back.
Speaker 6: They definitely got that back, but they ended up not
Speaker 6: getting a new unit because they could sell them for
Speaker 6: that higher price. I mean, that's crazy. That's one of
Speaker 6: the that's such a good thing you brought up because
Speaker 6: how many people think of that. How about first time
Speaker 6: home buyers? What do they know?
Speaker 11: I gotta give Cobal props. When I bought my house
Speaker 11: during the COVID thing.
Speaker 4: Yes, they told me.
Speaker 2: You know, they had.
Speaker 11: Delays because the supply chain issues. Sure, and they're horrible.
Speaker 11: They said, you know, you can get your earnest money back,
Speaker 11: or we'll we'll build a house at the same price,
Speaker 11: but we'll just have to wait until the supply chain
Speaker 11: issue is resolved.
Speaker 4: And they got it done for you though.
Speaker 11: It took no problems, well other than other than the
Speaker 11: delay in the building. Yeah, yeah, yeah, But other than that,
Speaker 11: I thought they were pretty reasonable with what they.
Speaker 6: Offered, So they did what their do Brad give advice to,
Speaker 6: like someone that's gonna just what we're talking about, someone
Speaker 6: that's shopping for a new house.
Speaker 8: Well, advice to a first time home buyer would be
Speaker 8: the same for any home buyer. Get an inspection, your
Speaker 8: opportunities to find stuff and have it remedied, and addressment
Speaker 8: is the highest before closing.
Speaker 6: Then after, you know, one of the biggest calls we
Speaker 6: get on new purchases and people don't realize it is
Speaker 6: cement the driveway. They don't you know it's not perfect?
Speaker 6: And they'll say, hey, it's not perfect. They'll send us
Speaker 6: a picture and it's Spaulding, and I can I can
Speaker 6: count on one hand the times it's actually been handled
Speaker 6: one hand. It's absolutely nuts. How about buying a regular house,
Speaker 6: meaning not a new house. I mean, should someone hire
Speaker 6: an attorney first time home.
Speaker 7: Buy I recommend it.
Speaker 8: In Colorado, the trend is home on the residential side
Speaker 8: is people don't get an attorney.
Speaker 4: Why is that?
Speaker 6: Because I know when I was in New York, and
Speaker 6: I believe even New Jersey, I'm pretty sure I had
Speaker 6: to use an attorney.
Speaker 7: It's just not the way it's done in Colorado.
Speaker 8: In some states like New York, Illinois, Florida, it's very
Speaker 8: common to have attorneys on both sides of all deals.
Speaker 8: Yeahid even small residential But here people just sort of
Speaker 8: cross their fingers hope nothing goes wrong.
Speaker 6: Well, I guess realtors though here, like Frank Duran, he's
Speaker 6: a great realtor. He he, I guess he in a
Speaker 6: way almost practices law when it comes to.
Speaker 7: Hey better not.
Speaker 8: Well, that's the thing is that real estate agents donnot
Speaker 8: give legal advice.
Speaker 4: Oh, I know that.
Speaker 6: Trust me and he Frank co. Frank definitely does not.
Speaker 6: But yeah, that's that's interesting you say that. But how
Speaker 6: are they Well, I guess just because Colorado doesn't. In Colorado,
Speaker 6: it's not even a part of enforcement. You don't have
Speaker 6: to use an attorney. In some states you literally have
Speaker 6: to use an.
Speaker 8: Attest Like South Carolina, you must close with an attorney. Yeah,
Speaker 8: in an attorney off New York as well, I know
Speaker 8: New York for sure. Yeah, some states are association.
Speaker 11: Frank is looking over a contract, you know, between a
Speaker 11: boom seller and says, look, this doesn't look right. I
Speaker 11: think you need legal advice. That's okay, I mean that's
Speaker 11: what Frank would probably do.
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, And I know the Frank does that. That's
Speaker 8: because I get calls from Frank from his clients. He's
Speaker 8: very quick to recommend in an attorney, an attorney for
Speaker 8: any kind of legal question.
Speaker 7: For you have to great advice.
Speaker 6: I mean, like especially on disclosures. I mean, disclosures are huge.
Speaker 6: If you're selling your house and you have a realtor,
Speaker 6: and that's great, they're trying to get the most money
Speaker 6: for you. But if there's questions on hey, you know,
Speaker 6: should I disclose this. I mean that's a big one
Speaker 6: to have an attorney look at it.
Speaker 11: I just had you disclose your case with the leap
Speaker 11: with the leech field.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's right. And who knows where that's going. I mean,
Speaker 6: honest to God, who knows where that's going. What What
Speaker 6: is the biggest thing you've seen or you have dealt with,
Speaker 6: Brad on a new build? Have you had a couple
Speaker 6: come to you or a person come to you and
Speaker 6: want to get out of I'm using this totally as
Speaker 6: an example, but a kV home or a lenar home
Speaker 6: or they have a warranty issue after the fact where
Speaker 6: they should have hired someone like you to look at it.
Speaker 6: What have you seen after the fact that you just
Speaker 6: there's not much you can do.
Speaker 8: Yeah, warranty issues, the timing of closing, like the builder
Speaker 8: taking too long to finish it and complete it and.
Speaker 7: Close on it charging more.
Speaker 8: These home builder contracts are very loose in terms of
Speaker 8: setting a deadline for the home builder to be done
Speaker 8: and go to closing, and when it comes to.
Speaker 3: Uh like.
Speaker 8: Upgrades and like having a budget for whatever for things
Speaker 8: like cabinets or appliances.
Speaker 7: One problem is having.
Speaker 8: Just a just a big number for here's your budget
Speaker 8: for plumbing, your plumbing fixtures, and you don't know what's
Speaker 8: in that, you don't know what.
Speaker 7: Quality is on there.
Speaker 8: It is, So it's it's recommended, especially on the custom
Speaker 8: home building side, to get a very detailed speck list
Speaker 8: of of the make model of the fixtures and equipment
Speaker 8: appliances rather than just like a lump sum.
Speaker 6: So when we bought our first house, Susanna and I,
Speaker 6: it was in Clark Farms and Parker. We went with
Speaker 6: US Homes and they built a and it went fair,
Speaker 6: It went pretty fast, and honestly, ultimately I liked the product.
Speaker 6: I ended up buying another one, but they changed to
Speaker 6: I think Lenar Bottom, but we sold that house and
Speaker 6: then we did buy the Lenar House in Castle Rocks.
Speaker 6: So in two thousand and one we bought this house.
Speaker 6: Now they offered free upgrades, like in other words, if
Speaker 6: you wanted free hardwood floors in the kitchen and better
Speaker 6: cabinets or better fixtures in the bathroom, whatever the upgrades are,
Speaker 6: you know what I mean, upgrades better carpet for that matter,
Speaker 6: but you had to use their mortgage company. Okay, So
Speaker 6: we were like, oh yeah, well, we're definitely going to
Speaker 6: do that. We're going to use their mortgage company. And
Speaker 6: I bet these contracts are still out there till this day.
Speaker 6: So then as we got closer to closing and I
Speaker 6: was looking at the interest rate and looking at all this,
Speaker 6: I started shopping around and realized they were like one
Speaker 6: and a half points higher on the interest rate, and
Speaker 6: I'm like, wait minute, wait a minute. And I started calculating,
Speaker 6: you know, I'd never live in a house thirty years,
Speaker 6: but people do. I mean, it's you're talking, You're talking
Speaker 6: big dollars. So I said, well, can't you at least
Speaker 6: get closer? And they wouldn't do anything nothing, absolutely wouldn't
Speaker 6: do a damn thing. So I get upset. This is
Speaker 6: two thousand and two. I started filling in for Martino.
Speaker 6: Back then, I didn't do the show every day like
Speaker 6: I do now with them. I was filling in because
Speaker 6: I had computer businesses and other stuff going on. So
Speaker 6: I called up Tom. I called him at home and said, hey, man,
Speaker 6: what do you think of this? Suzanne and I are
Speaker 6: getting ready to buy this. And I made the mistake.
Speaker 6: I didn't look through it. I have to use their company,
Speaker 6: but my god, they're almost two points higher. It's insane,
Speaker 6: and so I got him involved, and I'm going to
Speaker 6: tell you guys the outcome, but and i'll tell it
Speaker 6: after the break, and i'll tell you what Tom did.
Speaker 4: It's crazy.
Speaker 6: But where I really wanted to go for this is
Speaker 6: back to the new home purchase in the contract. I
Speaker 6: wanted out at that point to use them. I couldn't
Speaker 6: get out of that new home or they'd keep the
Speaker 6: earnest money and possibly come after.
Speaker 4: Me for any kind of deficit if there was one.
Speaker 6: And worse than that, if I did want to move
Speaker 6: in and go with another mortgage company that was lower,
Speaker 6: I had to pay for all the upgrades that were
Speaker 6: already done, and that was like twenty five thousand dollars
Speaker 6: in their eyes.
Speaker 4: So I was in a no win situation.
Speaker 6: I was going to have a higher than normal interest
Speaker 6: rate or I had to come another twenty grand out
Speaker 6: of pocket.
Speaker 4: It was crazy. But after Tom got involved, I'll tell
Speaker 4: you what happened.
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Speaker 12: of insurance companies. Find out now three O three seven
Speaker 12: to seven to one help. You'll think you're his only
Speaker 12: customer when you choose Frank to round the real estate
Speaker 12: man dot com to list your home with Remax Alliance
Speaker 12: three oh three nine two zero sixteen twenty.
Speaker 4: Two all right three zero three seven.
Speaker 6: One three eight two five five three oh three seven
Speaker 6: one three eight two five five. So I'm gonna finish
Speaker 6: that story real quick. But basically, we Susanna and I
Speaker 6: bought a new house by Lenar and we got free upgrades.
Speaker 6: This is going back to two thousand and one, and
Speaker 6: we got free upgrades on it. But we agreed to
Speaker 6: use their mortgage lender, and of course they make money
Speaker 6: on the points. And what ultimately happened is when we
Speaker 6: were ready to go to closing, I shopped around and
Speaker 6: they were a point and a half to two points.
Speaker 4: I don't remember the exact amount higher, which absolutely was crazy.
Speaker 6: I mean, that's a lot of money that sturms between
Speaker 6: five percent and seven percent. So I was literally at
Speaker 6: their building at the time. Lenar was at Lincoln and five.
Speaker 6: The building's still there, but I don't think they're there.
Speaker 6: And they were on the top floor and it was
Speaker 6: a big conference room with one of those big tables,
Speaker 6: and I was down there trying to talk to someone
Speaker 6: to get this done, and they weren't going to do anything.
Speaker 6: They gave me the option to either pay for the
Speaker 6: upgrades twenty twenty five thousand dollars if I backed out,
Speaker 6: they were going to keep our earnest money. Plus she
Speaker 6: was pregnant, We're ready to have a baby. I mean,
Speaker 6: we got to get into this house. I just couldn't believe.
Speaker 6: To me, it was just unfair. That's what it came
Speaker 6: down to. I called up Tom, I literally did. I
Speaker 6: was filling in for him back then. In fact, we
Speaker 6: were national. We were in New York to California. It
Speaker 6: was pretty crazy with west was it Westwood? I think
Speaker 6: it was called Westwood. It was nuts what we.
Speaker 4: Still broadcasted right out of this building.
Speaker 6: But I called them up and I put them on
Speaker 6: speakerphone in front of these two guys. We're in this
Speaker 6: big conference room. It's got a table the size of
Speaker 6: like is something ridiculous. I mean like thirty feet long,
Speaker 6: and it's just three of us in this one room
Speaker 6: and I put on the table and bottom line, they
Speaker 6: brought it down about a point in a quarter. Yep,
Speaker 6: brought it down for me and they agreed to it
Speaker 6: and everything went great.
Speaker 14: Man.
Speaker 6: So that was time Tom really helped me out big time.
Speaker 6: I mean big time. It'd be funny. I wonder if
Speaker 6: he actually remembers that, but it's nuts, man. But we're
Speaker 6: talking to Brad O'Brien and Brad, actually I got someone's
Speaker 6: got a question for you. But the homeowner stuff very important, right,
Speaker 6: new homebuilder have an attorney?
Speaker 4: Have you look at it?
Speaker 8: I could add about the affiliated businesses with homebuilders? Did
Speaker 8: they the biggest ones do have their affiliated mortgage companies
Speaker 8: and title companies.
Speaker 4: Do they actually own those or they're just.
Speaker 8: I think they're commonly owned. That's that's why they're affiliated.
Speaker 8: And sometimes they have even the same name, the same
Speaker 8: accept that my say mortgage company or insurance company.
Speaker 7: But you're not required to use them. You're free to
Speaker 7: choose your own company.
Speaker 4: And is that is that a law in Colorado?
Speaker 7: Actually you're you're free to choose your own vendors.
Speaker 6: But if they if they incentivize you with a free
Speaker 6: upgrade like cabinets, then they turn around like they tried
Speaker 6: to do to me.
Speaker 4: If you don't want to use them, charge.
Speaker 8: Yes, usedly makes sense to use their affiliated company because
Speaker 8: when when you get a lower you got a better
Speaker 8: deal and they get a little they make money on
Speaker 8: it as well.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and then Doc brought up an interesting point.
Speaker 6: I could have just refined, that's true, but then you're
Speaker 6: still doing closing costs and everything. Again, but it's a lot, right,
Speaker 6: It's less than what the upgrade would have been my mortgage.
Speaker 11: And recently I had a they had a lender. I
Speaker 11: had to qualify for the loan through their lender. As
Speaker 11: long as I qualified for the loan, Yeah, then I
Speaker 11: could find my own, uh mortgage company, because if I
Speaker 11: couldn't find anybody else, then I would be sort of
Speaker 11: backed into their their mortgage company. So that was the
Speaker 11: hoop I had to jump through.
Speaker 6: Brad, what do you see, Let's get out of the
Speaker 6: new home purchase and we know all the pitfalls there.
Speaker 6: I mean, the bottom line is, have someone look at it.
Speaker 6: If anything, you know you still want the house, but
Speaker 6: be aware that it can take a long time. Be
Speaker 6: aware they might be able to up a price on it.
Speaker 6: Be aware of what you're signing, because if you do
Speaker 6: want to back out, chances are you're not going to.
Speaker 6: They'll hold on to that interest or that earnest money,
Speaker 6: like you know, like a dead man gripping his gun
Speaker 6: or something.
Speaker 4: I mean, seriously, it's really hard to get back.
Speaker 8: It's a leap of faith to be a purchaser of
Speaker 8: a from a home builder on a new construction. It's
Speaker 8: it's much safer to be the first purchaser on the
Speaker 8: first resale.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and that goes for big companies or small companies,
Speaker 6: even if it's a guy building or developing even one neighborhood.
Speaker 6: That might even be more important to make sure an
Speaker 6: attorney's involved with that where you're actually paying a builder
Speaker 6: as you go, you know, a construction loan and stuff.
Speaker 4: You can dig into all that.
Speaker 6: Now, on the commercial side, what's the biggest thing, you say,
Speaker 6: just commercial in general, what's the biggest phone call you get?
Speaker 6: Is it from landlords? Is it from like tenants that
Speaker 6: are going to run out of a strip mall? Like literally,
Speaker 6: what's the biggest call you get or or maybe the
Speaker 6: biggest problem you see?
Speaker 8: Well, I help a commercial owner. Property owners buy and
Speaker 8: sell and do leasing. So everything yeah, And it's also
Speaker 8: kind of economy driven. When the economy is great, it's
Speaker 8: a lot of transactions. When the economy turns, it's litigation
Speaker 8: mechanics leans tenants leaving before the end of the term,
Speaker 8: that sort of thing.
Speaker 4: Can you do you do like UCC filings on inventory
Speaker 4: and stuff?
Speaker 8: Yes, I do, so you do sometimes landlord gets landlords
Speaker 8: get you see rights to foreclose on the furniture, fixure,
Speaker 8: and equipment of a tenant.
Speaker 3: See.
Speaker 6: People don't understand how important that is. I'm talking, of
Speaker 6: course from the landlords standpoint, but they can actually own
Speaker 6: your inventory, and those UCC filings are very important, especially
Speaker 6: if someone goes bankrupt on you, because you actually could
Speaker 6: be first in line with that filing to go after
Speaker 6: the equipment compared to someone that didn't have those filings.
Speaker 6: And that goes for almost any industry, right, and it
Speaker 6: could go for a whipment for like a print shop
Speaker 6: or an automotive shop or anything.
Speaker 8: Yeah, my landlord clients don't too often go after the
Speaker 8: equipment because it's really has liquidation value. Like a restaurant
Speaker 8: that went out of business and used restaurant equipment, used tables.
Speaker 4: Yes, it's almost worth nothing.
Speaker 7: Yes, And it almost doesn't justify the cost of going
Speaker 7: after it.
Speaker 4: That makes a lot of sense. The other thing.
Speaker 6: Is a lot of times the UCC is filed on
Speaker 6: the inventory by the person that sold in the inventory
Speaker 6: or the person that sold them or leasing them the equipment,
Speaker 6: or if they didn't SEC there's already someone above you.
Speaker 8: If they didn't pay their sales taxes. The state of
Speaker 8: Colorado steps in line first. Oh yeah, they do on
Speaker 8: the sales tax Lian, the state is unbelievable. Hold on,
Speaker 8: I can take this break, bow, I promise I'll get
Speaker 8: to you after this.
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Speaker 15: You don't pay a cent until your content.
Speaker 12: Time for insurance check up free, no obligation comparison call
Speaker 12: Compass insurance paying too much your coverage at dozens of
Speaker 12: insurance companies find out now three oh three seven to
Speaker 12: seven to one help. You'll think you're his only customer
Speaker 12: when you choose Frank durand the real estate Man dot
Speaker 12: com to list your home with Remax Alliance three all
Speaker 12: three nine two zero sixteen twenty two.
Speaker 6: All right three oh three seven one three eight two
Speaker 6: five five bo.
Speaker 4: What is going on with you.
Speaker 3: Bo.
Speaker 6: By the way, I want to tell everybody really quick,
Speaker 6: one Clear Choice Doors dot Com. This is the garage
Speaker 6: door company that we've been talking about for at least
Speaker 6: fifteen years, if not twenty.
Speaker 4: They're on a.
Speaker 6: Referral list a referral list dot com. They have showrooms
Speaker 6: up and down the front range. If you're looking for
Speaker 6: a new garage door, but if you have a older
Speaker 6: one and need a tune up, they got great prices
Speaker 6: and you want to get it tuned up before it breaks,
Speaker 6: if a spring goes out, or if you need a
Speaker 6: new garage door opener or anything like that, these guys
Speaker 6: can handle it. One clear Choice Doors dot Com. Now, Bo,
Speaker 6: you have a question actually for Brad. What is your
Speaker 6: question for Brad?
Speaker 2: Sir?
Speaker 14: Yes, hi, Brad. Hey, I've been working on this case
Speaker 14: and Common Mark know about it. Is Joel Joe from
Speaker 14: Alison Mechanical and Brad you helped him put a mechanics
Speaker 14: clean on his property. Basically, he provided materials onto this.
Speaker 14: He let his friend use an account, a plumbing account.
Speaker 14: It was a boiler installation, so Joe did not get
Speaker 14: paid for the materials. So Joe, with your help, put
Speaker 14: a mechanic clean on the property.
Speaker 4: Wait a minute, so I want to get this straight.
Speaker 6: So the caller had someone he knew, like an employer
Speaker 6: or somebody, use his account in an eight VAC company.
Speaker 14: Yeah it was. It was another company. It was called
Speaker 14: ken Call Construction. They used his account, got it about
Speaker 14: six thousand dollars worth of material? Okay?
Speaker 4: They did?
Speaker 2: Did they? Did? They?
Speaker 4: But hold on, bo did they use his account with permission?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 14: They did.
Speaker 6: Okay, So that's where I was getting there. And then
Speaker 6: it got delivered and then what happened?
Speaker 14: Okay, So the contractor Ken Call installed the system, but
Speaker 14: they didn't pay Joe for the for the materials.
Speaker 4: Now, who didn't pay Joe? Nobody.
Speaker 14: Nobody paid Joe, not the homeowner where the installation.
Speaker 6: Oh so then so then they called you, Brad. Is
Speaker 6: this what I'm understanding?
Speaker 7: Yeah, let me clarify.
Speaker 8: So I didn't help Joe file the mechanics SLEAN, but
Speaker 8: I did speak with him in general about mechanics leans
Speaker 8: and his situation by the pace on it. Yeah, and
Speaker 8: by the way, he did. He did call me this
Speaker 8: week and authorized me to discuss his at her with Tom.
Speaker 7: So yeah, I'm not reaching any client confidentiality.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, we know, of course you never would.
Speaker 6: But so so the bottom line is you just gave
Speaker 6: him some information and then both did the guy end
Speaker 6: up getting paid?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 14: This is the story that I want really good clarification
Speaker 14: because Mark, you and Tom told me on it all right.
Speaker 6: Hold on though, man, we're coming up. Hold on, hold on,
Speaker 6: and then Michael you hold on too. But I know
Speaker 6: where he's going to go, and we're going to talk
Speaker 6: about it next hour.
Speaker 4: And you can look at it either way.
Speaker 6: There's two ways to look at What I'm going to
Speaker 6: refer to is an affirmative defense against the lean in Colorado.
Speaker 6: It's very important pay attention to this. If you're a homeowner,
Speaker 6: it's going to be big.
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Speaker 12: dot com.
Speaker 15: You don't pay a cent until you're content.
Speaker 12: For an insurance check up free no obligation comparison call
Speaker 12: Compass insurance paying too much your coverage at dozens of
Speaker 12: insurance companies find out now three oh three, seven seven
Speaker 12: to one help. You'll think you're his only customer when
Speaker 12: you choose Frank durand the Real estate Man dot com
Speaker 12: to list your home with Remax Alliance three oh three
Speaker 12: nine two zero sixteen twenty two.
Speaker 2: D tough news.
Speaker 1: Need advice, so you don't have.
Speaker 2: Come. Run inxious as fast as we can.
Speaker 1: Shooter's gonna help come man.
Speaker 5: This is the Troubleshooter Show Now, Tom Martinez, welcome my.
Speaker 4: Friends to the only show of this came.
Speaker 6: We're here to solve problems, answer questions, take your complaints,
Speaker 6: pick our brains. We'd love you to do that. Three
Speaker 6: oh three Martino is a phone number. Two lines open,
Speaker 6: three oh three seven one three eight two five five.
Speaker 6: We're gonna go back to Deputy Bow. But I need
Speaker 6: to tell everybody about water pros. Shuzanna and I got
Speaker 6: a softener from Paul. How long ago is that pay?
Speaker 4: It's been a good year year plus.
Speaker 6: You love it Toash, I love it. I'll tell you
Speaker 6: why I love it. I've had to go out and
Speaker 6: buy the salt for it once. I mean, it's crazy.
Speaker 6: It goes through so slow. It's probably there's only two
Speaker 6: of us, but ours is for a big house. The
Speaker 6: whole thing costs less than thirty five hundred dollars thirty
Speaker 6: five hundred bucks.
Speaker 4: We got it.
Speaker 6: We had other companies out besides waterpros dot com or
Speaker 6: dot net, and they were eight thousand to twelve thousand
Speaker 6: more than double.
Speaker 4: And now he's got a system. Listen to this. This
Speaker 4: is crazy.
Speaker 6: Thirty six ninety nine under thirty seven hundred bucks. It
Speaker 6: gets rid of forever chemicals in your entire house, whole house.
Speaker 6: It softens the water and make sure the chlorine's acceptable.
Speaker 6: You understand what I'm saying. It's unbelievable for under thirty
Speaker 6: seven hundred bucks. Other places, you know, thirteen thousand dollars
Speaker 6: waterpros dot net, water pros dot net.
Speaker 4: Now I'm going back to Bow. He has an update.
Speaker 6: But we had a caller that basically Brad just talked
Speaker 6: to the guy, didn't engage with him, but he might
Speaker 6: actually hire him at this point. But what happened was,
Speaker 6: I'm going to say this as quick as I can,
Speaker 6: somebody allowed someone to use their wholesale account or account
Speaker 6: at an.
Speaker 4: HVAC supply house.
Speaker 6: They delivered and installed I assume bo the furnace to
Speaker 6: the person's house.
Speaker 4: Is that correct? So far?
Speaker 14: Yes, they installed two boilers in a water so.
Speaker 4: They installed that stuff.
Speaker 6: But the person that was allowed to use the account,
Speaker 6: that's not the problem never paid the supplier.
Speaker 14: Right, they never paid the supply.
Speaker 6: So therefore the person that allowed him to use the
Speaker 6: wholesale account is looking at a bill from the supplier period.
Speaker 14: Right. And in this situation, even though he's an individual,
Speaker 14: I believe he is now acting as the supplier because
Speaker 14: he is the one that basically allowed the materials to
Speaker 14: be delivered.
Speaker 6: Yeah, no, I would agree with that he is. He
Speaker 6: definitely is the supplier at this point. But here's where
Speaker 6: I think you were going. The supplier can put a
Speaker 6: lien on the property. There's no doubt about that. They
Speaker 6: have to do it. What's the period of time? Let's
Speaker 6: walk through that real quick for everybody. So, if a
Speaker 6: contractor wants to put a lien on a property because
Speaker 6: they never got paid, let's say an HVAC contractor, when
Speaker 6: do they have to do it by? Isn't it thirty
Speaker 6: or forty days or ninety days?
Speaker 3: What is it now?
Speaker 8: Before they record a mechanical leane against the property, they
Speaker 8: have to serve a ten day notice of intent to
Speaker 8: lean and that's got to be delivered at least ten
Speaker 8: days before the recording, and that ten day notice has
Speaker 8: to be delivered within excuse me. The ten days plus
Speaker 8: the recording have to be done within four months after
Speaker 8: the contractors last week, so.
Speaker 6: One hundred and twenty days roughly. Ye, so in one
Speaker 6: hundred and twenty days. So if in other words, you wouldn't, well,
Speaker 6: you can lean a property at any point. But what
Speaker 6: I'm saying, in order to have a valid lian if
Speaker 6: you will, if they didn't do any work in a
Speaker 6: five month period, they missed the window.
Speaker 8: Yeah, a mechanic or a contractor has a lean from
Speaker 8: day one, papering it and recording it is perfecting.
Speaker 4: The lean is god.
Speaker 8: And if you don't perfect it and follow the timeline,
Speaker 8: then your lean expires automatically.
Speaker 6: Okay, now in this case, and then I want to
Speaker 6: pick your brain on leans, just so everybody understands how
Speaker 6: they work. But in this case, they were in the
Speaker 6: time frame and the supplier, who was this guy who
Speaker 6: allowed this other company that apparently is no good to
Speaker 6: use his account, is going to lean the property right bo.
Speaker 14: Yes, And he already leaned the PEAT file the intent
Speaker 14: and recorded the lean and it was all done within
Speaker 14: the time period.
Speaker 6: Yep, it's all done in the time period. So the
Speaker 6: next party's got to do and Brad please, you're the
Speaker 6: attorney that does this all the time. But he's got
Speaker 6: to literally take them to court and basically prove that
Speaker 6: they owe money, right yese.
Speaker 8: Within six months after the last work or after the
Speaker 8: completion of the project, the mechanic who's the starting a
Speaker 8: lean has to file a claim, a court claim for
Speaker 8: foreclosure of that mechanic's.
Speaker 4: Lane, right. And that's basically in front of a judge.
Speaker 4: I mean it is.
Speaker 7: It's in district court too, not county court.
Speaker 18: Yees.
Speaker 6: So I mean it's a real court date. You show
Speaker 6: up and you prove that they owe you money or
Speaker 6: prove whatever. You prove your case and then if that happens,
Speaker 6: we can talk about the collection part of it later.
Speaker 6: But that's that's it. It's it's pretty much done and
Speaker 6: over the leans on the property.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 6: The problem that I see with this, and Bo this
Speaker 6: was the question I think you were going to is
Speaker 6: in Colorado we actually have an affirmative defense, but only
Speaker 6: certain things. Certain things have to be in place for
Speaker 6: it to work. One was this property a single family dwelling.
Speaker 14: Yes, okay, assl.
Speaker 4: Pines yes, correct.
Speaker 6: Did they have a contract in writing a contract with
Speaker 6: the person that installed the furnace. Yes, did they pay
Speaker 6: that person for the furnace?
Speaker 14: Yes, a contractor was Ken Call Construction. The amount of
Speaker 14: the job is thirty eight thousand dollars in the ladies
Speaker 14: that own the house paid the contractor for.
Speaker 6: The work, so the contractor was paid in full. It's
Speaker 6: a single family home. And does the owner of that
Speaker 6: single family home actually live there?
Speaker 14: She lives there, and she's the owner.
Speaker 4: And that's it.
Speaker 6: I mean, so when they go to perfect it, actually,
Speaker 6: what is that called? You already said when the perfection was,
Speaker 6: what's it called? When you bring them to court, you're not.
Speaker 6: I mean, you're basically suing them.
Speaker 7: So foreclosure of the mechanics lane, that's what is.
Speaker 6: Called the foreclosure. So when they go to that part,
Speaker 6: the foreclosure of the mechanics lane, that woman or that guy,
Speaker 6: whoever it is is, they could simply assert that affirmative
Speaker 6: defense if they met that criteria, and then that person
Speaker 6: or that supplier would not win the case.
Speaker 14: That's what I want to know, because you guys told
Speaker 14: me last week, since she's the homeowner and she paid
Speaker 14: the bill, that she could get out of the she
Speaker 14: could get out of this.
Speaker 6: Tradition everything, if everything I just said, if everything I
Speaker 6: just said, or if everything that you answered the questions
Speaker 6: I said is correct, Yes, single family dwelling. She paid
Speaker 6: the contractor in full. She has that affirmative defense, so.
Speaker 14: The supplier has no right to collect on the materials
Speaker 14: that were supplied. Well, I don't understand the.
Speaker 6: Homeowner bo bo bo listen. I mean whether you understand it,
Speaker 6: whether it's right or not, doesn't matter. But here's the
Speaker 6: interesting part. They would have to assert that defense. I mean,
Speaker 6: am I correcting that, Brad? I mean if they walked
Speaker 6: in in the woman had no idea about that, would
Speaker 6: a judge automatically do that?
Speaker 4: In your eyes?
Speaker 6: Or the judge doesn't get involved in the argument side
Speaker 6: or do they if there is an affirmative defense to
Speaker 6: anything for that matter, and.
Speaker 8: Affirmative this affirmative defense is not like you you assert
Speaker 8: it and then the case is over. You still have
Speaker 8: to win with this affirmative defense, either at trial or
Speaker 8: an emotion for summery judgment.
Speaker 4: Correct.
Speaker 6: But I'm saying if the homeowner in this did not
Speaker 6: even know this was a and shows up by themselves
Speaker 6: when they get sued or when they go for the
Speaker 6: foreclosure action.
Speaker 4: Would the judge actually tell her about it.
Speaker 7: No, judges don't give legal advice, That's what I mean.
Speaker 6: So they wouldn't. So if she doesn't know about it,
Speaker 6: they could still get paid.
Speaker 4: You're right, I'll give you another.
Speaker 6: I'll give everybody out there another instance. You know, there's
Speaker 6: a statute of limitation on debt collection. So if you
Speaker 6: didn't pay in most circumstances, depending on where you live
Speaker 6: or what state, six seven years, and you didn't renew it,
Speaker 6: and you didn't make any payments on it, the statute's gone.
Speaker 4: It's just simply gone.
Speaker 6: But they can still serve you bring you to court
Speaker 6: in front of a judge and try to prove their case.
Speaker 6: But if you don't point out to them that it's
Speaker 6: past the statute of limitations, they could literally win the case.
Speaker 4: Do you follow what I'm saying.
Speaker 14: Yeah, So basically this guy's hose, he's not going to
Speaker 14: be able to collect if.
Speaker 6: She asserts that. If she asserts that affirmative defense.
Speaker 14: Well I'm sure she'll hire an attorney. And Brad quoted
Speaker 14: you know a cost to do a judicial foreclosure of
Speaker 14: ten thousand dollars. Well, markets like these rooping companies roofing
Speaker 14: companies supply rooping materials YEP, and roopers do roughs, and
Speaker 14: then the supply the rooting.
Speaker 2: It.
Speaker 6: It's just it's the exact same thing. Bo, there's no difference.
Speaker 6: It's the exact same thing. If they meet the criteria.
Speaker 11: Can't they suit subcontractors to the contractor for the materials.
Speaker 4: Bough, Yeah, that's what they have to do. That's that's
Speaker 4: his remedy.
Speaker 6: This is if she asserts this and she doesn't have
Speaker 6: to pay the supplier and everything goes in her favor,
Speaker 6: which I'm pretty sure it would if she has an attorney.
Speaker 4: I know it would. But but then he.
Speaker 6: Goes after that contractor that used his account.
Speaker 14: That would be an alternative, but he's explored that.
Speaker 4: Well, I think that's going to be the only alternative
Speaker 4: in this case. You know, I'll give it. And I
Speaker 4: know where you're saying he has no recourse.
Speaker 10: He does have recourse, Yeah.
Speaker 6: After that person. But I know what Bo saying. Both
Speaker 6: saying it's not fair. It's just simply not fair, because
Speaker 6: it's just not fair. That's really saying. It's got nothing
Speaker 6: to do with law. But I'll give you, I'll give
Speaker 6: you an idea because people might not think. A contractor
Speaker 6: might not like or a subcontractor, i should say, might
Speaker 6: not like this affirmative defense.
Speaker 4: But I'll give you. I'll give you an idea. If
Speaker 4: your employer.
Speaker 6: Takes money out of your check to pay taxes, okay,
Speaker 6: if they take money out of your check, you're just
Speaker 6: a regular employee, and you made a hundred dollars and
Speaker 6: of course your checks for eighty because the twenty dollars
Speaker 6: was taken out for taxes, and that employer is unscrupulous
Speaker 6: and decides instead of sending that twenty dollars to Uncle Sam,
Speaker 6: that that employer keeps the twenty dollars. Okay, Eventually the
Speaker 6: irs the W two's will match up and everything will
Speaker 6: come down. A guy named Don Eiley did this and
Speaker 6: he ripped off so many small businesses and Colorado was crazy.
Speaker 6: So basically what happens here is the small business is
Speaker 6: left holding the bag, believe it or not, with the irs.
Speaker 6: And in this case, the small business is left holding
Speaker 6: the bag. So the small business, even though they paid
Speaker 6: the accountant that was supposed to give it to the
Speaker 6: Uncle Sam, didn't give it to Uncle Sam.
Speaker 4: They still owe all the payroll.
Speaker 6: Taxes in don Eiley's case over ten million dollars across
Speaker 6: fifty sixty different small businesses, and some of them are
Speaker 6: listening today. I guarantee it. That's how don on Iley
Speaker 6: got busted. But it took ten years and they went
Speaker 6: after the small businesses. But the affirmative defense, you might think,
Speaker 6: wait a second, why.
Speaker 4: Doesn't the employee actually owe it?
Speaker 6: How come these people get stuck holding the bag because
Speaker 6: why couldn't you use the same defense with the employee,
Speaker 6: Because ultimately that money coming out of the paycheck is
Speaker 6: on my behalf, So ultimately I didn't pay the IRS, but.
Speaker 4: They do hold it there.
Speaker 6: So the affirmative defense, the IRS won't go after the employee,
Speaker 6: but they'll nail the business to the wall, which is
Speaker 6: absolutely incredible. And that guy ruined a lot of lives.
Speaker 6: Hey bo, I appreciate it. Three oh three seven one
Speaker 6: three talk.
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Speaker 4: Help.
Speaker 12: You'll think you're his only customer when you choose Frank
Speaker 12: durand the real estate man dot Com to list your
Speaker 12: home with Remax Alliance. Three oh three nine two zero
Speaker 12: sixteen twenty two.
Speaker 4: All right, three oh three seven one three eight two
Speaker 4: five five three oh.
Speaker 6: Three Martino, you know we were talking during the break, Well,
Speaker 6: real quick, I do want to tell you about somebody
Speaker 6: and eight eight eight heating dot Com. I know another commercial.
Speaker 6: Blah blah blah, I can already. These are good guys, though,
Speaker 6: here's the bottom line. You want someone that'll come out
Speaker 6: and actually give you a bit on fixing something.
Speaker 4: These are your guys. They're not going to.
Speaker 6: Just say, hey, that furnace needs a blower, so therefore
Speaker 6: you should spend you know, a million dollars on a
Speaker 6: new furnace. They're going to give you a price to
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Speaker 6: really good people. Eight eighty eight Heating dot Com. Now
Speaker 6: we were talking about the affirmative defense. Now I trust fund.
Speaker 6: I want to talk about trust fund because this is
Speaker 6: a big one in Colorado. If you pay a contractor,
Speaker 6: I'll give you an example. You call a guy up
Speaker 6: to finish your basement, a general contractor, and he comes
Speaker 6: over and he quotes you fifty thousand dollars to do
Speaker 6: the basement, and he says, I want ten thousand dollars
Speaker 6: down to get started. So you write him a check
Speaker 6: for ten and he cashes the check and then basically
Speaker 6: he never shows up again. So Brad Brad O'Brien, attorney,
Speaker 6: real estate attorney, at that point when he cashes at
Speaker 6: ten thousand dollars, explain the trust fund.
Speaker 8: Well, there is the trust fund Statute in Colorado which
Speaker 8: is under the Mechanics Lean Statutes. That says, basically, if
Speaker 8: if a property owner pays some money to the general
Speaker 8: contractor for further payment to the sub the subs and
Speaker 8: suppliers of the general contractor, then that general contractor holds
Speaker 8: those funds in trust.
Speaker 4: YEP, meaning it's only for that job.
Speaker 7: Yeah, and right, no commingling allowed.
Speaker 8: A general can't contractor cannot take funds from one project
Speaker 8: and allocate to other projects.
Speaker 6: So we always hear the scenario Rob Peter to pay Paul.
Speaker 6: That's basically what this stops because a lot of contractors,
Speaker 6: and it's true, a lot, I don't care what they do.
Speaker 6: You know, they get that ten thousand dollars check and
Speaker 6: they still got to finish another job somewhere and they
Speaker 6: basically use that ten thousand dollars to finish that before
Speaker 6: they start this job. It just happens all the time. Yes,
Speaker 6: but technically they're not supposed to do it. But I
Speaker 6: also don't want people to think like contractors have to
Speaker 6: have fifty different bank accounts.
Speaker 4: Doesn't work that way. So when you said you.
Speaker 6: Don't co mingle funds, it's kind of strange because honestly,
Speaker 6: all the funds can be in the same bank account,
Speaker 6: but they got to be earmarked, right.
Speaker 8: The funds can't be expended so that they're no longer
Speaker 8: in the bank account.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so that's a great way to look at it.
Speaker 8: I mean, if somebody gives you one thousand dollars, earn
Speaker 8: the other one.
Speaker 4: Thousand bucks in there exactly.
Speaker 6: And if they gave you ten thousand dollars and did
Speaker 6: five thousand dollars worth of work, there needs to be
Speaker 6: five thousand in that's right.
Speaker 4: So what happens if that does happen?
Speaker 8: Well, under this trust fund statute, it basically says that
Speaker 8: if a general contractor violates it, then they're held responsible
Speaker 8: as well under the civil theft statute in Colorado, which
Speaker 8: is even worse because that makes the company and its
Speaker 8: officers personally liable for those amounts.
Speaker 6: So, therefore, if I wrote a check to ABC contractor
Speaker 6: for ten thousand dollars in the scenario we're using, and
Speaker 6: he never shows up, and.
Speaker 4: What do you do? Then you call an attorney.
Speaker 6: I mean that's basically the first place you'd start. I'm
Speaker 6: saying real world because these are the calls we take
Speaker 6: all the time. So real world. What does someone do
Speaker 6: like that when they're sitting there? Well, you start off
Speaker 6: with the demand letter to return the money.
Speaker 4: Yeah, But I mean generally you're going to hire an attorney, right.
Speaker 7: Do the work. Yeah, And if that doesn't work, then
Speaker 7: you look to a lawsuit.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you would look at a lawsuit.
Speaker 6: And the cool part you just said, is how about
Speaker 6: if how about if ABC Construction went out of business.
Speaker 6: That's where you're saying the owners of it or whoever
Speaker 6: this person was, could be held personally liable. Yeah, the officers, right,
Speaker 6: any of them, if there was ten owners, all of
Speaker 6: them possibly yep.
Speaker 8: And the civil theest statute also provides for a troubling
Speaker 8: and if it's really egregious.
Speaker 6: Trouble damages. But here's the problem, you know the problem
Speaker 6: with this law.
Speaker 4: Think about it.
Speaker 6: What's the problem Generally when you're up against this what happens.
Speaker 4: Well, you get a judgment.
Speaker 8: If there's no money to pay the judgment, then the
Speaker 8: defense is judgment proof.
Speaker 18: Yeah.
Speaker 6: So what I think think that law should do, and
Speaker 6: I'm curious if you agree or disagree.
Speaker 4: I think there should be jail time associated.
Speaker 7: Well, that would be a criminal theft. This is a
Speaker 7: civil theF I.
Speaker 6: Know that, But I mean, there's no These guys go
Speaker 6: out of business left and right. These contractors take money,
Speaker 6: You go after them, you get the judgment, and there's
Speaker 6: nothing else.
Speaker 4: That's it.
Speaker 6: They go bankrupt and they move to They moved to
Speaker 6: New Mexico and do the same damn thing again.
Speaker 4: It drives me insane.
Speaker 6: So but if you had a criminal and I don't
Speaker 6: think there might be a small part of the criminal
Speaker 6: part in there, but I think it's like a misdemeanor.
Speaker 4: I'm not even sure if you would do jail time.
Speaker 4: Do you know off top of your head.
Speaker 7: I don't practice criminal law.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I don't know.
Speaker 6: But if they have assets, absolutely, I mean then you
Speaker 6: could go after them.
Speaker 4: What other.
Speaker 6: I'll go to Donna in a second. What what other
Speaker 6: things When it comes to the Trust Fund Statute, Well.
Speaker 8: It also has an attorney feed provision, so you can
Speaker 8: get that back.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 8: If a lot of contracts don't have an attorney prevailing
Speaker 8: party attorney feed provisions, so you could see somebody win
Speaker 8: but not get your attorney fees reimbursed.
Speaker 7: He might break even for example.
Speaker 10: Yeah.
Speaker 8: Yeah, but if you have a claim under the Trust
Speaker 8: Fund Statute, it has its own attorney feed provision for
Speaker 8: the party, for the the party that brought the claim
Speaker 8: and wins.
Speaker 6: So even though there's no criminal on what we're talking about,
Speaker 6: but it is interesting because trouble damages and attorney's fees
Speaker 6: that could be big if there was assets on the
Speaker 6: other side. If it's a decent sized company, or if
Speaker 6: the officers literally had money.
Speaker 4: I mean, you could recover a lot.
Speaker 6: In the scenario we use, you could get thirty thousand
Speaker 6: dollars and whatever you pay for the attorney. That's a
Speaker 6: possible outcome. Yeah, I mean that's pretty that. That does
Speaker 6: have some teeth. It's very similar to like bad checks
Speaker 6: in Colorado. You get to treble damages and other stuff
Speaker 6: like that. So that that is kind of cool. How
Speaker 6: do I put this?
Speaker 3: What?
Speaker 6: I want to revisit this? If it was up to you,
Speaker 6: I know you're not a criminal attorney, I get that,
Speaker 6: but if it was up to you, actually you just
Speaker 6: simply I don't think you care because you work both sides,
Speaker 6: which is cool. I mean that's what attorneys do. But
Speaker 6: do you think there should be jail time for breaking
Speaker 6: those kind of statutes.
Speaker 8: Someone feels strongly that they want to get the person
Speaker 8: in trouble criminally, yeah, and they're free to contact the
Speaker 8: district attorney and make a claim, you know, a criminal
Speaker 8: reporting yeah, a theft? Yeah, all right, I don't get
Speaker 8: involved in that.
Speaker 4: Kelly. What's your comment on contractors?
Speaker 17: Hey, you guys, I just make a comment.
Speaker 4: Yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 17: A real general, a real general contractor that is upright,
Speaker 17: and a real general contractor that is upright doesn't take
Speaker 17: money up front. They financed the entire job mostly yeah,
Speaker 17: send you No not.
Speaker 4: Mostly well no, wait wait Kelly, Kelly, No.
Speaker 17: There is no that's what That's what people are getting screwed.
Speaker 17: I'm not talking just roof in a house or something, Kelly.
Speaker 17: Having a plumber come over and run you a drain,
Speaker 17: Kelly and stuff?
Speaker 4: Kelly, Can I talk for a second. How about if
Speaker 4: how about if.
Speaker 6: I have a custom house and I want to get
Speaker 6: new windows for it, and I have K and H
Speaker 6: or Garvinus or someone come out and they're going to measure,
Speaker 6: and they're going to order from a factory custom windows.
Speaker 6: You don't think you're gonna you shouldn't put a deposit down,
Speaker 6: Absolutely you should. Those windows can't be used anywhere else.
Speaker 14: No.
Speaker 17: I work on Mark. We work on eighteen million dollar houses,
Speaker 17: forty forty.
Speaker 4: Million dollar housw do you do on them.
Speaker 3: Our custom houses?
Speaker 17: I'm on a fire sprinker company, okay, okay, And I
Speaker 17: have never been paid up front ever, one can I
Speaker 17: for anything?
Speaker 15: Kelly?
Speaker 6: I agree with you ninety five percent of the time.
Speaker 6: If you listen to the show. I'm the one always
Speaker 6: touting that. But there is some special order stuff. I
Speaker 6: simply disagree with you. You know we can we can disagree.
Speaker 17: But general contractor, if you have a custom house, when
Speaker 17: you're ordering sixty five different windows at each of them,
Speaker 17: the cost on them is over three and four grand.
Speaker 12: Go with a sure thing Denver's Best roofer Excel Roofing
Speaker 12: dot com.
Speaker 15: You don't pay a cent until you're content.
Speaker 12: Time for an insurance check up free no obligation comparison
Speaker 12: call Compass Insurance paying too much your coverage at dozens
Speaker 12: of insurance companies find out now three oh three seven
Speaker 12: seven to one help. You'll think you're his only customer
Speaker 12: when you choose Frank durand the real estate Man dot
Speaker 12: com to list your home with Remax Alliance three oh
Speaker 12: three nine two zero sixteen twenty two.
Speaker 6: All right, three oh three seven one three eight two
Speaker 6: five five three zero three Martino. Now, mister Dimitri, you've
Speaker 6: got some questions for Brad.
Speaker 4: What do you got?
Speaker 6: I love educating people, honestly, God, And by the way,
Speaker 6: I'm gonna turn over you in a second. But olslaw
Speaker 6: dot com. If you're a landlord out there, really, if
Speaker 6: you haven't updated your lease, call Brad. If you're looking
Speaker 6: at buying a house, I don't care if it's a
Speaker 6: brand new house like we talked about new construction, I
Speaker 6: just don't care. And if you're buying a house with
Speaker 6: somebody other than your spouse, my goodness, called Brad. That's
Speaker 6: a big one, because that can create more issues than
Speaker 6: you've ever seen. If your kids going off to college,
Speaker 6: here's one that has hit me. If your kid's going
Speaker 6: off to college and is looking at moving into a
Speaker 6: house with other roommates, my goodness, have Brad look over it. Brad,
Speaker 6: I'm sure you know this, but in most of these settings,
Speaker 6: I'm not talking a dorm room. I'm talking these rentals
Speaker 6: around campuses. You're responsible for everything. Everybody on the lease
Speaker 6: is responsible for everything. So if everybody else ditches, they
Speaker 6: can come after you. If you're the parent, they can
Speaker 6: come after you if you co signed on it. But
Speaker 6: go ahead, sir, Brad.
Speaker 16: Let's talk about bad neighbors for a moment and what
Speaker 16: and what relief one can find in civil courts. So
Speaker 16: all seen all of these stories about a typical, you know,
Speaker 16: hoarder situation where they fill their house in the yard
Speaker 16: with all kinds of junk. Those homes inevitably burned down
Speaker 16: and sometimes they explode.
Speaker 4: What are you saying an iceore?
Speaker 16: Not just an iceore, but a safety problem. How many
Speaker 16: times have we heard of hoarders homes blowing up?
Speaker 4: What's the question to him?
Speaker 10: What can the neighbors do? If anything?
Speaker 8: Well, the most expedient thing is to call the local
Speaker 8: city or county building department because that's probably a building
Speaker 8: code violation Arizona.
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, and.
Speaker 8: Get them, get the city or county working against the
Speaker 8: neighbor's who's got a bunch of stuff. But if you
Speaker 8: have to sue the homeowner directly for some nuisance situation,
Speaker 8: that's a nuisance lawsuit that takes a whole lot longer
Speaker 8: to resolve.
Speaker 16: And what is a nuisance lawsuit? I mean, it doesn't
Speaker 16: sound like there's a simple and cheap solution to this.
Speaker 16: This sounds like a difficult I mean, I can't even
Speaker 16: wrap my mind around what a nuisance lawsuit looks like.
Speaker 10: What the relief basket.
Speaker 8: In case, there's a threshold to bring a nuisance lawsuit
Speaker 8: because the courts and the law presumed that people have
Speaker 8: thick skins, so garden variety disputes between neighbors, like shouting
Speaker 8: and name calling. There's really no remedy in court. Courts
Speaker 8: really are not set up to do to handle this
Speaker 8: kind of situations, because if they were, courts would be
Speaker 8: overfull with lawsuits about people yelling at each other and
Speaker 8: calling each other names.
Speaker 6: On that topic, Suzanne, do you remember the light, the
Speaker 6: guy with the bright light? So listen to this Tomitri
Speaker 6: a little before your time, he had I think it
Speaker 6: was a newer house he just built, and he put
Speaker 6: up these beautiful they like street lights, but they were.
Speaker 4: In his driveway. But when they were turned on, they were.
Speaker 6: So bright the neighbors were going ape, you know what
Speaker 6: I'm saying. So, but the curious part is he actually
Speaker 6: had a company come out and measure the light. The
Speaker 6: light was too bright for the zoning. Well well, but
Speaker 6: hold on, it really was. It wasn't supposed to be
Speaker 6: as bright as it was according to the municipality.
Speaker 4: I think it was indepth.
Speaker 8: But very few municipalities have actual objective numbers for lumens
Speaker 8: or or if it's a sound violation for decibels. Yeah,
Speaker 8: and so if there is something like that, great you
Speaker 8: can say oh this, this municipality has this decibel limit and.
Speaker 19: They did Okay, but they wouldn't do anything. But that's
Speaker 19: really I know, so do a damn thing, right. Noosan's
Speaker 19: cases are the strongest when there's some physical manifestation of
Speaker 19: something off site coming on site.
Speaker 4: Got it.
Speaker 7: So if there's like a factory.
Speaker 8: That's blowing smoke and the smoke lands on your property, Okay,
Speaker 8: then that's a stronger lawsuit than if it's some off
Speaker 8: site noise.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I got it.
Speaker 6: No, that makes sense, and then that's a big one
Speaker 6: in apartments of course, here all the time, you know,
Speaker 6: the person above me's making noise.
Speaker 4: Go ahead, Dmitri.
Speaker 3: Yeah. No.
Speaker 16: In the example, the theoretical example that I cited, you
Speaker 16: know this, the nuisance that that I told you about
Speaker 16: also has a direct impact on the value of the
Speaker 16: neighbor's properties.
Speaker 10: I mean, it's much more.
Speaker 16: Difficult to sell a house or big to do when
Speaker 16: the potential buyers come over and witness this mess.
Speaker 10: So is that part of the damages that I can see?
Speaker 8: Concord, Well, you don't get to the damages question, like
Speaker 8: how much you owe somebody for something you did, until
Speaker 8: you've gotten past the causation and you're shown that you
Speaker 8: have a claim that's recognized under law. So somebody calls
Speaker 8: you a name, your neighbor calls you a name.
Speaker 10: And that's not part of my example.
Speaker 16: I want you think exactly about, well, the hoarder situation
Speaker 16: you're saying full of garbage.
Speaker 6: Hold on, So we're in a we're in a neighborhood
Speaker 6: with no ho aa and the guy next to me
Speaker 6: has a house and he's got old couches in the
Speaker 6: front yard and a refrigerator. You know, we're talking the
Speaker 6: craziest looking hillbilly house ever and that and he's not
Speaker 6: supposed to. He's simply not supposed to. Is that kind
Speaker 6: of where you're going?
Speaker 10: And let's make it even worse.
Speaker 16: Loud music at all hours of the nine, the motorcycles revving,
Speaker 16: and gunshots once in a while, you name it. And
Speaker 16: I can't sell my house because of that.
Speaker 6: Wait, here's a real world case, Brad, and let's let
Speaker 6: me use this as an example. I got to take
Speaker 6: the break. But this is real world. This happened. Not
Speaker 6: only did they call into this show, it was on
Speaker 6: Fox thirty one. They were selling their house in a
Speaker 6: cul de sac. The guy on the other end of
Speaker 6: the cul de sac had a banner on the side
Speaker 6: of his house. On the side of his house that
Speaker 6: was massive, and the banner said something like I party
Speaker 6: and I'm paraphrasing I party all night, play loud music,
Speaker 6: and I have pit bulls. It was the craziest thing ever.
Speaker 6: And they were having trouble selling their house because as
Speaker 6: soon as someone would come in and look at it,
Speaker 6: and in this case, there was no HOA.
Speaker 4: Is that a good example.
Speaker 10: That's perfect example of what I'm asking.
Speaker 4: We'll talk about it right after this