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Speaker 1: Welcome to Next Level Soul, the place where we deep

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dive into the mysteries of existence, uncover hidden layers of consciousness,

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and explore the journey of the soul. I'm your host,

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Alex Ferrari, and every week we sit down with the

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world's leading spiritual teachers, mystics, scientists, and truth seekers to

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illuminate the path towards awakening. Here we ask questions that

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truly matter. Why are we here, where are we going?

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And how do we elevate our lives, our purpose, and

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our consciousness to the next level. This is a space

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for transformation, a space for expansion, a space to remember

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who you really are. So take a deep breath, open

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your mind, and prepare to step into your next level soul. Now.

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If you're ready to take your spiritual journey to the

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next level, explore Next Level Soul TV, our streaming platform

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journey today at Next Levelsoul dot TV. The views opinions

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Now let's dive in to today's episode. I'd like to

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welcome to the show Rosemary Thornton.

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Speaker 2: Hi, Dan, Rosemary, Hi, how are you?

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Speaker 1: I'm good, my dear, Thank you so much for coming

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on the show and sharing your journey with all of us.

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So my very first question I have for you is

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what was your life like prior to your near death experience.

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Speaker 2: That's a really good question, you know. I've done about

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seventy five of these and I hear pretty much the

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same questions. But that's a good question. You know. I

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met him. I met my second husband in two thousand

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and six, and I was so grateful to find him.

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I'd been through a messy divorce, had five years of

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living single, and I had some success as a writer.

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I'd written books on architectural history, and in fact, after

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our first date, one of my stories, because I had

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good publicity, one of my stories about one of my

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new books was written up in the Wall Street Journal

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above the fold. No less so I was very proud

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that it looked like this happened all the time. You know,

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here's this new young this new fellow. I'm trying to impress.

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And I say I was in the Wall Street Journal

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today above the fold. He was like, wow. So he

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and I were married ten years, and I thought it

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was a good marriage. In fact, in my wedding vows,

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I thanked God for bringing him into my life, the

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answer to a lifetime of prayers. My first marriage had

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failed after twenty four years, and as anyone's been through

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a divorce can tell you that that's hard when you

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put your best energy efforts in present of marriage and

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a fail. So I really thought happy days had arrived,

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really and truly, I thought all those hard years were over.

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And then after about nine and a half years of marriage,

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came home for lunch one day and ended his life.

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And as a sensitive soul and a writer, to say

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I was devastated would be an understatement. But we had

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a good life. In fact, there are times that I

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was prone to sadness, typical creative type, you know, ruminate

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over everything, think too much all the time. And he

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would frequently tell me we have a good life, you know,

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look at all the wonderful blessings we have in our life,

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and for him to do this for about two and

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a half years, I just just lost my mind and

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I learned how to in the vernacular of the day,

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I learned how to mask. I learned how to pretend

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to be fine, because nobody wants to be around somebody

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who's like, oh, my life is awful. So I learned

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how to. I liken it to the romulin cloaking device

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from Star Trek. Are you familiar, Well, of course I am, yes.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, look, we all put a little bit

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of romulin cloaking devices on all of us most of

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the time, like hey, how are you feelings? As that

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how's you? How are you going? How are you feeling?

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Is a thing that you say to everybody, and you

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always say fine, but never really fine, are you? So

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we all put a mask on, but you really had

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to put on not only a mask, but a performance

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to really cloak what was going on inside.

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Speaker 2: That's the right word. It was a performance. In fact,

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I'm kind of fascinated. Well, I love words. I'm a writer.

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The word personality comes from the Latin word for mask,

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so our personality is often just something we down to

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survive in this world. But yeah, it took a lot

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of energy to maintain that. And as you know from

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the Romulans, they can't fire when they have the cloaking.

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Speaker 1: Device on that. That's very true. So much energy, that's

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it's sure you cannot attack while cloaked.

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Speaker 2: So I thought we had a good life. So yeah,

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this is this blue thing's up. And you know, I

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learned so much. I guess I used to be one

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of those people that was afraid of the homeless. You

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see them out, they look unkempt and smell funny, and

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you know, they have a scary look in their eyes.

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And I one of the great blessings, if you could

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say that, from this experience was in fact, just about

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six weeks ago, I saw a woman not much younger

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than me out in front of a big cathedral in

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central part of Illinois, and she had a sign up

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and said something like, you know, need a few more

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dollars for food or something. So I went over to

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her and I said, my name's Rose. What's your name?

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And she said she gave me your name, and I said, Terry,

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how did you end up here? What's going on? And

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she said, my son killed himself, and I don't know

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what to do. She said, I used to have a

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good job. I drove a BMW, I lived in a

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beautiful house in a beautiful neighborhood. And she said, I

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lost my mind and I lost my health insurance, which

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is what happens to people like that, And it can't

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even afford a psych word after that, and she said,

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now I'm out on the street. Began don't know what

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to do, and she said, nobody wants to talk to

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me anymore. And that's what happens. People get tired of

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hearing the sad stories. But what they found out about

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trauma survivors is we have to tell the story over

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and over and over again, typically for two to three years,

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just to sort it out in her own heads. So

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I have found that, and I gave Terry a little

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bit of money and told her I would pray for her,

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and I did. But I can't tell you how many

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homeless people I've encountered that the story begins with my

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mother killed herself, my husband killed himself, my daughter killed herself.

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That American Psychological Association came up with an assessment that

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said losing a close loved one to suicide is one

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of the most severe traumas a human being can and

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yet in this country we don't know how to deal

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with people. I mean, my husband was a successful professional.

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I was a writer who had some success. We had

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lots of fancy friends, had big parties, and lived in

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a lovely home. And after his death, man, those folks

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were gone. Folks all disappeared. And even now, seven and

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a half years later, I'm not in touch with one

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of those people. And yet the people who rushed into

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the fray were what we would call the working class.

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They were the people who didn't have much, but they

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knew pain and they had the inner strength, which I

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think I finally developed. They had the inner strength to

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deal with somebody with as much pain as I was facing.

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And that is the blessing, if you can call it that,

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that comes from an experience of this magnitude, is you learn.

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You know, another quick example, I know this is not

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what we're talking about, but I ran into I went

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to a Christmas party, traveled a thousand miles to go

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to a Christmas party with a lonely friend. He was

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alone and didn't have anyone to spend Christmas with. So

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I went up there and after we ate, the hostess

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of this fancy sore was standing at the kitchen counter

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kitchen sink, doing the dishes, and she was sobbing. And

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I saw everyone gathered around the tables kind of looking

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at and like, what do I do? The hostess is

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up there, sobbing, and I looked at her and I thought, man,

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I can't watch that. And I got up and I

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walked over to her and I put my hand on

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her back, and I said, what's going on? What's wrong?

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She said, you wouldn't understand. I said, well, I might not,

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but tell me. You know, sometimes a burden shared is haveved.

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I do believe that. And she said, she said, my

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husband killed himself five years ago. Oh Ida, I had

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no idea. And she said he and I had an

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argument and he went out to the front porch and

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sat down and you know, used a gun. And she said,

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I can't face holidays anymore. She said, I try. I

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put on these big fancy parties, you know, I make

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sure all the silver war's just right, but I can't deal.

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And I smiled at her, and I thought it's kind

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of inappropriate to smile, and I said, Oh golly, I said,

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I understand better than you think. And I told her

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my story very briefly, and she smiled. And then before

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long I said something perhaps borderline inappropriate to her. I said,

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these men can really screw you up in the head,

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can't they? Except I don't think I used the word

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screw And she laughed, So that's what he did. And

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I felt so comforted, and then I was able to just,

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you know, kind of hang out with her for a bit.

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So it's funny. How many funny is the wrong word?

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Coincidences are miracles where God chooses to remain anonymous.

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Speaker 1: I think synchronicities.

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Speaker 2: Synchronicities, Yeah, yeah, so I know that that was the

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right place for me to be.

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Speaker 1: Wow, that's pretty remarkable. So it seems that so before

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the near death experience, were you coping? Were you or

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were you still kind of in that lost space before I.

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Speaker 2: Had three that's a good question. I had three daily prayers.

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I prayed every day because I believe in persistence. You know,

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the Bible tells the story of the man who comes

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to uh, I can't remember. I think it's this the

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Judge's house, and begs and begs and begs and beaks

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and won't go away. Actually it's a woman I think,

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goes to somebody's house and begs and bags and bagson

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won't go away. And finally the judge says, and desperation,

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all right or right or right, I'll give you what

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you want. So I'm a big fan of persistence. But

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I prayed three prayers every day. One I asked God

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heal me or let me die. I felt dead. I

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felt like my soul was black, blackened out, that there's

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no light left in my soul or my heart. And

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I just felt like I might as well be dead

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because I'm dead mentally and emotionally and spiritually. And then

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the second prayer was iked that when I do die,

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because I knew it wouldn't be long, that there be

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no life review. I had seen what happened to me

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after my husband's death, and I lost my mind and

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I was in embarrassment. I humiliated myself in many many ways,

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and so I said, God, please when I die, spare

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me that. Because I'd been a big fan of NDEs,

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I'd read pretty much every NDE book I could get

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my hands on before my experience. And then my third

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prayer was a decision fatigue. There were some legal messes

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that had to be dealt with after my husband's death,

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and there were a lot of very hard decisions that

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had to be made involving attorneys and such. So I asked, God,

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spare me these decisions. I can't handle anymore.

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Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,

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and now back to the show.

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Speaker 2: So, in fact, I had a financial advisor take me

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aside and she said, so, Rosemary, where do you see

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yourself in two years? And it said, without missing a beat,

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I said, I'll be dead. I'm not going to survive this.

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Back to one point, I went to a family member

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and said, I'm dying. And not to be melodramatic, but

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I'm not going to survive. I'm circling the drain. I'll

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you to die by my own hand, or I will

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I will succumb to something. So I'm not going to

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survive this. And so many people don't know what to

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do when somebody says that. So anyway, that's where I was,

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and I was going out to lunch with friends and

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you know, pretending, and you know, an interesting thing happened.

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I was at a fancy restaurant somewhere eating by myself

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on this particular day. But somebody opened a door to

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my side, and the wind caught the door and it

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swamed very, very hard, and it swam so hard, and

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it startled me. And I jumped up out of my

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seat and I yelled. With children around and everybody else around,

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I yelled, what the f is wrong with you? It's

237
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nobody in particular, but it startled me so badly right,

238
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and I you know, people were like just gaping at me.

239
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And I left my jumped up and right out the restaurant.

240
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You canniliate it. Oh, but I was still pretty messed up.

241
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And then twenty nine months into it, I'd had a

242
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bunch of physical symptoms, very disturbing symptoms, including some some

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bleeding and you know, kind of coological problems blah blah blah.

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And I went to a doctor, and I went to

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a couple doctors, actually went to three, and I was

246
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diagnosed with cervical cancer stage two. And I said, you know, God,

247
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I was pretty clear on this. Heel me or let

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me go. I meant fast lingering illness.

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Speaker 1: Details, details, you gotta you're putting the order in, you

250
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gotta be details.

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Speaker 2: And during a related surgery. Uh, somebody made a booboo

252
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and then uh, I awakened from that surgery bleeding profusely.

253
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It had been a cervical biopsy, and I awakened for

254
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you know, the recovery, bleeding a lot. And I told

255
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an RN, I said, look, some's gone wrong. Fifty nine

256
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years old, I tell you some's gone wrong. I'm bleeding.

257
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Once you get home and lay down, you'll be fine.

258
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So three times I protested, and three times she told

259
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me just to go home and lay down.

260
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Speaker 1: And I did.

261
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Speaker 2: And once at home, it was getting worse and worse

262
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and worse. And I had a friend staying with me,

263
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and I told my friend, I said, call an ambulance.

264
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I'm bleeding to death. And ambulance game took me to

265
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another hospital, a little er that was actually not connected

266
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to a hospital, and they made more booboos. And you know,

267
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I used to tell this in front of live audiences.

268
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And when I would tell the part where they gave

269
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me a morphine derivative as a drug, you know did

270
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I don't know why, but they did. Everyone in the

271
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audience gased. Because when a patient presents with dropping blood

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pressure and profuse bleeding, morphine depresses it further.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was like, I even know that, Like, you

274
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don't give me someone who's bleeding, Why don't you get

275
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a whole bunch of asperin while you're at it?

276
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Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, seriously, does kind of grease the

277
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skids to the afterlife, you know.

278
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Speaker 1: I mean you want to go faster, here's some more

279
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fhinos that slow you right? Gas were right down exactly. Wow.

280
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Speaker 2: And I had never been in an ambulance and I

281
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get into the zer and this very kind RN about

282
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my age is attending to me, and I was so

283
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frightened because now I've made a decision. Okay, I'm I'm

284
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going to live, you know, I've I've agreed to go

285
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to the hospital. And I grabbed this RN's hand and

286
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I said, promise me, you're not going to let me die.

287
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And she was so compassionate and so motherly, and she

288
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grabbed my hand, she squeezed it and got right in

289
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my face, very very sweetly, almost as a mother consoling

290
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a child, and said, oh, honey, we're not going to

291
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let you die. We have many solutions for this. And

292
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then they gave me the morphine derivative. In a way

293
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I went, and the thing is, to the onlooker, it

294
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was a pretty peaceful passing, and in my experience what

295
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I was experiencing. The thing is that after they gave

296
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me that delauded, I don't know the time. My friend

297
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was at my side. I'm on this gurney and a

298
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little cubicle in an er. My friend said that after

299
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they gave me the delauded, I just passed right out.

300
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And you know, the thing about that it was actually

301
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a delauded morphine derivative. But the thing about that is

302
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I didn't have much bloodvolume at that point, so that delauded,

303
00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:30,720
you know, I don't know technically if I bled to

304
00:15:30,759 --> 00:15:33,240
death or if they delauded. Was just the final blow

305
00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:36,480
to my little heart. It's going I need fluid. I

306
00:15:36,519 --> 00:15:42,000
need fluid giving me morphing. Right, let's finish her off.

307
00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:47,120
But my friend said he looked at the blood pressure cuff,

308
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which is you know, infighting and deflating automatically, and the

309
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medical staff have left the room, and he said, at

310
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one point it said thirty five over twenty or thirty

311
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three over twenty five as my blood pressure, well, which

312
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is mean you're on your way out. And he stood

313
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up to go get help because I you know, she's dying.

314
00:16:01,519 --> 00:16:04,679
And as he did, my eyes popped open. I don't

315
00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:07,039
remember this, but he said, you reached your hands up

316
00:16:07,039 --> 00:16:09,320
to heaven and you know, wiggled to your fingers almost

317
00:16:09,399 --> 00:16:13,080
like a child reaching for a parent, and said something.

318
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And he said he got up and stood over me

319
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:16,399
and looked right in my face and he said, you

320
00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:18,919
looked right through me. You were talking to somebody that

321
00:16:19,159 --> 00:16:21,600
you could see and nobody else could. And you know,

322
00:16:21,639 --> 00:16:24,399
there's a term for this, it's called terminal lucidity. Have

323
00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:24,960
you heard of that?

324
00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:26,240
Speaker 1: Yes, I have.

325
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Speaker 2: Often at the very end of life we get a

326
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burst of energy.

327
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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's I've spoken to a few hospice doctors who

328
00:16:33,679 --> 00:16:37,200
studied the end of life and that just to see

329
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what happens to people as they're going and there's just

330
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that moment they just come up and they'll say something.

331
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And if you're if in hospice, it's a lot a

332
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little bit longer time for that. So they can see

333
00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:52,320
what's happening in dreams and people talking and who comes

334
00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:55,120
to you and they'll say things. But yeah, at the

335
00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:57,759
very moment, you're like, it happens and then and then

336
00:16:57,960 --> 00:16:59,440
you're done, and that's the end.

337
00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:03,440
Speaker 2: What happened next was I fell back on the gurney.

338
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I've been trying to sit up, which is pretty impressive

339
00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:08,279
for somebody the blood pressure of thirty three over twenty five.

340
00:17:08,799 --> 00:17:10,799
But I fell back on the gurney and he said,

341
00:17:10,799 --> 00:17:15,480
and then you just went real still. And meanwhile I

342
00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:19,000
was having the time of my life. I felt myself

343
00:17:19,079 --> 00:17:22,519
awakening from what seemed like a deep dreamless state, and man,

344
00:17:22,599 --> 00:17:24,880
I was catapulted out of this body, and I mean

345
00:17:25,079 --> 00:17:27,960
catapulted like toast out of a toaster. And I went

346
00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,960
flying off. And I remember thinking, I remember thinking about

347
00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:35,000
all those NDE books, but also there was just a

348
00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:38,079
knowing and I knew that I had died. And the

349
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first words out of my mouth and this new experience

350
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were my heart is stopped. And then I thought, how

351
00:17:44,559 --> 00:17:46,039
do I know that? I thought, I don't know, but

352
00:17:46,079 --> 00:17:48,920
I know that's right. And I was floating away in blackness.

353
00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:50,559
A lot of people say, could you see your body? No,

354
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:52,519
I couldn't see my body. And I really think that's

355
00:17:52,519 --> 00:17:56,359
God's mercy, because I learned later my friend the medical

356
00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:58,240
staff did come rushing in when they hear the blood

357
00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:01,000
pressure alarm going off, and he said, measured him outside

358
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into the you know, wait outside the little room, and

359
00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:07,480
brought a crash cart in. He said, Actually, it was

360
00:18:07,559 --> 00:18:09,960
kind of funny. The nurse came running into the room first,

361
00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:14,000
and he said, she did a sternal rub. Have you

362
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:15,680
heard of that where they take their knuckles and rake

363
00:18:15,759 --> 00:18:19,640
them over your sternum. Yeah, it's Elicit's a pain response.

364
00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,000
If there's any life at all, you'll you'll wiggle or

365
00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:24,319
jolt or something. But he said, she did that for

366
00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:27,640
a minute and nothing. And he said, and then she

367
00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:31,000
she went over to the blood pressure cuff machine and

368
00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:33,480
checked the plug at the outlet, like, well, this thing

369
00:18:33,559 --> 00:18:40,000
isn't working. It looks like she's dead. Wow. And then

370
00:18:40,039 --> 00:18:42,440
you know, jostle the machine of a little bit.

371
00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:45,880
Speaker 1: Like like hed put some limitum foil at the top

372
00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:50,599
to make sure you got the reception, uh kind of thing. Well, okay,

373
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:54,319
so all right, So so other than the the ridiculousness

374
00:18:54,319 --> 00:18:57,759
that's going on in your room as you're dying or dead,

375
00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:00,720
what happened when you got kind of bolted out?

376
00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,759
Speaker 2: It was so fun. It was such a great time.

377
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:08,359
I was catapulted very dramatically, and that was my first

378
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,000
thought was my heart hast stopped. And then as I'm

379
00:19:11,519 --> 00:19:14,000
floating in this perfect blackness and now here, a lot of

380
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,400
people talk about the love they feel, I would say

381
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:19,960
the predominant emotion I felt was peace. In fact, I

382
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,480
as a writer, I've always had high anxiety, you know,

383
00:19:23,519 --> 00:19:25,599
and I do overthink everything and just a little bit

384
00:19:25,599 --> 00:19:29,440
nervous all the time, and a little bit neurotic, I

385
00:19:29,519 --> 00:19:33,160
might say. And I thought, this is the most perfect

386
00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,759
piece I've ever experienced. And I thought about that Bible verse,

387
00:19:35,799 --> 00:19:37,960
the piece that passes all understanding, shall keep your hearts

388
00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:39,559
and minds to Jesus Christ. And I thought, this is

389
00:19:39,559 --> 00:19:42,119
that peace. This is what Paul was talking about, is

390
00:19:42,279 --> 00:19:45,519
perfect piece that no words could ever describe. So I

391
00:19:45,519 --> 00:19:48,839
felt this piece. And then my next thought was you're dying.

392
00:19:49,519 --> 00:19:52,240
And then, being the ever appropriate writer, I thought, actually,

393
00:19:52,279 --> 00:19:55,680
you're not dying. You're dead. Because when you're floating onto

394
00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,680
your reward, getting the tense right is very important. And

395
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,279
I thought that was fun. And I laughed out loud

396
00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:05,960
because I thought, here you are dead, unexpectedly, I might add,

397
00:20:06,079 --> 00:20:09,359
and running away from your body and dealing with grammar.

398
00:20:09,559 --> 00:20:11,599
And the beauty part is I thought it was so funny,

399
00:20:11,599 --> 00:20:14,480
and I laughed out loud and I heard my funny

400
00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,400
little giggle, and I thought, Okay, I don't have breath sounds,

401
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:19,920
don't have vocal cords, I don't think, don't know about ears,

402
00:20:20,039 --> 00:20:22,559
and yet I'm producing sound and I sound just like

403
00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:26,359
I've always sounded. And I started life in broadcasting. I

404
00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:30,240
actually have training in broadcasting, so I know what I

405
00:20:30,279 --> 00:20:34,319
sound like. And I thought, this is great. Everything I

406
00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:37,640
am has gone with me. My macabre goofy, sense of humor,

407
00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:40,960
my silly little giggle, the sound of my voice. And

408
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:42,680
I thought, what did I leave on that gurney? And

409
00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:45,640
I realized the fear, the anxiety, the worries, the woe,

410
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:48,720
everything negative was what I left behind, and what went

411
00:20:48,759 --> 00:20:52,559
with me was me who I really am.

412
00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:55,200
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,

413
00:20:58,839 --> 00:21:03,200
and now back to the show. Interesting, So where did

414
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:03,720
you go next?

415
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:05,720
Speaker 2: And that was very comforting, by the way, I was

416
00:21:05,799 --> 00:21:07,599
very comforting to know that everything I really am went

417
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:11,119
with me. This floating went on for some time, and

418
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,680
at some point in this blackness says, I'm still floating

419
00:21:13,759 --> 00:21:16,319
further and further away. And the thing is, I had

420
00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:19,200
always had this inherent fear of the dark, and I

421
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:21,440
remember thinking, I'm in pitch black. I mean, you know,

422
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:22,720
it kind of came to see your hand in front

423
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:26,200
of you. And I thought, yet, I'm not afraid, So

424
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,160
maybe I'm not really afraid of the dark. And very

425
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:31,440
early on in this experience, I felt a massive presence

426
00:21:31,519 --> 00:21:33,519
joined me, and I mean massive, and he was he.

427
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,240
She was to my left and much taller than me,

428
00:21:36,759 --> 00:21:38,599
and I turned my head up and looked to the

429
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:42,279
left to see him her, and I thought, this is interesting.

430
00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:45,519
I'm turning my head to the left to look over

431
00:21:45,559 --> 00:21:47,759
my left shoulder, and I thought, so I have some

432
00:21:47,839 --> 00:21:50,440
sort of form, you know, I'm not just some ethereal

433
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:54,359
spirit floating away. But I turned and I'm smiling because

434
00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:57,039
I'm like, wow, this is so much fun. All these

435
00:21:57,079 --> 00:21:59,079
undiebooks I read, nobody you told me how much fun

436
00:21:59,079 --> 00:22:01,559
this is, How just how good you feel, how happy

437
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:05,279
or how relieved, how relieved. And so I asked this

438
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:09,359
massive spiritual being, I said, literally with a happy smile,

439
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:12,400
I said, and who are you? And the answer was

440
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,000
before again, before I could even finish the sentence the question,

441
00:22:15,079 --> 00:22:19,200
the answer was immediate. You are the image and likeness.

442
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:23,200
I'm the original. I was like, whoa, that's Genesis one,

443
00:22:23,279 --> 00:22:25,160
twenty five and twenty six. You know, we made the

444
00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:28,039
image and likeness of God, and my whole life. If

445
00:22:28,039 --> 00:22:29,920
I had to have one Bible verse that I never

446
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,599
quite understood and always wanted to understand better, that would

447
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:34,880
be then I think that's what I get. How cool

448
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:38,759
is that? How great is that there's an original? So

449
00:22:39,039 --> 00:22:40,960
this went on, and in some point he's still flirting.

450
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,599
In this blackness, I felt the presence of what you

451
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:49,000
might call spiritual beings or angels, but it was they

452
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,599
were welcoming me home. And it wasn't with words, but

453
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:53,079
it was with a feeling like.

454
00:22:53,319 --> 00:22:55,559
Speaker 1: She's back, she's back.

455
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,880
Speaker 2: We're so glad you're back. And I could summon up

456
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,160
the sum up the hire experience in three words. It

457
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:05,720
would actually be pretty easy, but it would be welcome home, dearie.

458
00:23:06,279 --> 00:23:08,240
You know, my whole life, I've been a weirdo and

459
00:23:08,319 --> 00:23:13,839
an oddball. I've just been that kid that from the

460
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:19,279
playground to career life just different, you know. But it

461
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:22,240
was like these people got me and they were so

462
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:26,880
glad I was back home, so glad, and that was

463
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,759
so comforting that I was with my tribe, you know,

464
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,839
and it was like they were saying, we know this

465
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:37,640
was a hard one, but you're back, and I don't know,

466
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,000
it's just so comforting. Comforting is the word, you know. Irma.

467
00:23:41,039 --> 00:23:43,359
Bombeck once wrote an entire essay on the word comfort

468
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:45,759
and comfortable. She said, it's become a word we don't

469
00:23:45,839 --> 00:23:50,440
use much, but comfort is a great word. So a

470
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:52,279
lot of things happened to me in this experience. One

471
00:23:52,319 --> 00:23:54,680
of them was in while I'm still floating away in

472
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:58,279
this blackness, I remember thinking I've had this experience before,

473
00:23:58,319 --> 00:24:01,839
like even in this lifetime, I've been through this before somehow,

474
00:24:02,319 --> 00:24:04,519
And one of the spiritual beings with me said, remember

475
00:24:04,559 --> 00:24:06,200
your mom told you you were given up for dead

476
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,119
as an infant. I was three weeks old and I

477
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:10,519
contracted a disease and the doctor's sent my mom home

478
00:24:10,519 --> 00:24:12,160
and said, this baby's dead. She's not going to survive

479
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,319
another couple hours. And yet the next morning my mom

480
00:24:15,319 --> 00:24:17,359
went home and prayed that night and the next morning

481
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,000
when she came back into a nun Catholic hospital, but

482
00:24:21,039 --> 00:24:23,240
a nun handed me over to my mom and said,

483
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:27,440
this baby isn't better. She's healed. So the angels in

484
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:32,000
this experience said, you didn't almost die that night. You

485
00:24:32,079 --> 00:24:35,480
crossed over then and you were sent back. And I

486
00:24:35,559 --> 00:24:37,960
thought that explains why I've been a weird on my

487
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,759
whole life, you know. I mean I remember when people

488
00:24:40,759 --> 00:24:44,200
would die and I'd say, oh, did you see did

489
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:48,039
you see our aunt just walk through? She's gone to heaven?

490
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:52,680
She stopped through. And my mom, God bless her, would say,

491
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,359
you didn't see that, and you're not going to talk

492
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,599
about that anymore. So you learn early on to shut up,

493
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,119
you know, learn on to be quiet. So this was

494
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,200
all kind of explained to me. And I do remember

495
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:08,000
a predominant feeling because I was scheduled to start chemotherapy

496
00:25:08,039 --> 00:25:10,880
and radiation. It was we get this right. It was

497
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:14,160
once a week chemo and it was five times a

498
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,799
week radiation. And I hadn't been in to get the

499
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:19,680
you know, the tattoo jet for the radiation. But I

500
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:23,200
was supposed to start the chemo tutorial and then start chemo,

501
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,119
and I remember thinking, I don't need to worry about

502
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:27,440
that anymore, do I?

503
00:25:28,759 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, when you die, it kind of knocks

504
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:35,839
out your itinerary. Uh, she're down on earth without question.

505
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,799
So when you're when you're up, when you're up there,

506
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:44,680
did you did did uh? Did the did God listen

507
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:46,160
to you? Or did you have a life review?

508
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:51,039
Speaker 2: No life review, which was great. And the thing is

509
00:25:51,039 --> 00:25:56,559
I could remember because my background is architectural history, you know.

510
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,480
And I had a friend, a really good friend, who

511
00:26:00,599 --> 00:26:03,200
is a licensed architect. And when I showed him the

512
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,359
home I was buying on the East Coast, he said,

513
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:07,880
I don't think I ought to buy that home. And

514
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,400
I said why and he said, well, because there's no

515
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:11,839
way to get a gurney in the front door. It

516
00:26:11,839 --> 00:26:14,559
was a cool house, had a massive fireplace right by

517
00:26:14,559 --> 00:26:16,359
the front door. And he said, there's no way to

518
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,960
get a gurny in that house. And I was like, Oh,

519
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:20,559
I'm never going to need a gurney, you know, blah

520
00:26:20,599 --> 00:26:24,160
blah blah. Well, I remembered in this death experience, the

521
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,759
fireman trying to get a gurney in the house and

522
00:26:26,799 --> 00:26:28,960
they couldn't They couldn't get it up the stairs and

523
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,079
around the corner. So but I remembered. I didn't have

524
00:26:32,079 --> 00:26:35,039
a life review, but I remember those firemen trying so

525
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,400
hard because I was still conscious when I was taken

526
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,839
out of the house. I remember him trying so hard

527
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,680
to be helpful, and I thought, Wow, they showed me

528
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,400
so much love, you know, a total stranger, and I

529
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,359
thought about how much love they showed me. But my

530
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:49,759
predominant feeling, really and truly was that I got early

531
00:26:49,799 --> 00:26:52,519
release for good behavior. I felt like i'd been somebody

532
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:54,240
opened the prison doors and let me out. I did

533
00:26:54,279 --> 00:26:56,559
not want to go back. And this just went on

534
00:26:56,599 --> 00:26:58,039
and on, and I'm mean to read a book about it,

535
00:26:58,039 --> 00:27:00,200
because it was a pretty detailed experience. And then at

536
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:01,960
some point, I don't remember the transition, but at some point,

537
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,400
I'm no longer floating, but I'm in a white room,

538
00:27:04,519 --> 00:27:07,079
and I'm on my feet. Now I'm no longer floating,

539
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,480
but I'm on my feet in this perfect white room,

540
00:27:09,799 --> 00:27:11,559
and about fifteen to twenty feet in front of me

541
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,799
is a door, and it was shut. I remember being

542
00:27:14,799 --> 00:27:17,680
a little disappointed that the door was shut, because I thought, hey,

543
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,799
I'm supposed to let's just go through that door, and

544
00:27:21,039 --> 00:27:23,079
that door ought to be open for me. But as

545
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,640
I'm walking through this white room, and it was perfect white,

546
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:28,640
and I observed that there were no light fixtures, no

547
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,960
traditional light fixtures. It was just illuminated from within, you know,

548
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:39,039
because I'm looking for Wisconsin's wall fixtures. But I had

549
00:27:39,079 --> 00:27:41,279
a spiritual being or an angel with me at this point,

550
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,480
and I asked one there was this mist or fog

551
00:27:44,519 --> 00:27:46,559
in the room, and I asked about that. It was

552
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,839
very It was not just falling, It was encircling and

553
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,559
very busy missed around me. And I asked the angelic

554
00:27:53,599 --> 00:27:54,839
being with me. I said, I feel like I got

555
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,039
to be able to focus on one of the individual droplets.

556
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,960
And the angelic being said, You're eyes are not acclimated

557
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,160
to this new environment yet, so you can't see it.

558
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,960
But what you're seeing these are particles of light. And

559
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,279
that when we go to heaven we have to be

560
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:13,400
cleansed of the muck. And that was the word that

561
00:28:13,519 --> 00:28:15,960
was used, the muck of earth, which is a word

562
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,240
I just don't use much in everyday language, you know,

563
00:28:18,839 --> 00:28:21,440
But that the muck and the denseness and the heaviness

564
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:23,359
of earth has to be washed. And this was like

565
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,880
most akin to a spiritual car wash. And as my

566
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,599
friend said, leave your muddy boots at the door. We

567
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:32,960
don't go to heaven with the heaviness of Earth. And

568
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,160
the other thing that was explaining to me very clearly

569
00:28:35,319 --> 00:28:38,359
was we have a spiritual identity, and sometimes we get

570
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:44,000
so accustomed to these physical disease process that we think,

571
00:28:44,079 --> 00:28:48,240
you know, like I am a diabetic, I have hepatitis,

572
00:28:48,319 --> 00:28:51,240
I have this, we identify with a disease, and that

573
00:28:51,359 --> 00:28:54,599
the purpose of this was to strip that away and say, no, no, no,

574
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,119
that's not your identity. Your real identity is spiritual child

575
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,720
of God. That's who you really are. So that's it's

576
00:29:00,799 --> 00:29:02,559
kind of a reminder. And the other thing somewhere is

577
00:29:02,599 --> 00:29:04,839
I'm walking because I see that door and I think, okay,

578
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,720
I know the gig everybody out of my way. I'm

579
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:09,519
doing the door. You know, there wasn't like, oh what

580
00:29:09,559 --> 00:29:12,960
should I do. I'm like, clear bath fifty nine years old,

581
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,559
time served, let me out. And as I'm doing that,

582
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:18,880
one of the messages that was very clearly conveyed to me.

583
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,440
And I don't know at what junctured, because you know,

584
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,480
we want a timeline, we want a chronology. You know,

585
00:29:25,839 --> 00:29:27,480
this happened first, and this happened in middle and this

586
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,640
happened in the end. But Einstein said, to those of

587
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,599
us who are committed physicist, the past, present, and future

588
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:39,279
are only illusion, however persistent. So while it looks to

589
00:29:39,319 --> 00:29:42,000
me like this thing happened, and it's really hard to say,

590
00:29:42,039 --> 00:29:43,640
but at some point in that white room, I was

591
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,079
told that if I agreed to go, or if I

592
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:47,880
ended up going not agreed, but if I ended up

593
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,119
going back, then I would be restored to wholeness. And

594
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:52,960
it wasn't said that you'll be healed with the grief,

595
00:29:53,319 --> 00:29:55,839
you'll be healed of this disease, but you'll be restored

596
00:29:55,839 --> 00:30:00,039
to wholeness. And so I get to the door, and

597
00:30:00,079 --> 00:30:02,759
I'm so grateful that I'm at the door, and I

598
00:30:02,759 --> 00:30:05,240
don't even know by I remember thinking when I'm first

599
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:06,720
in this white room and see the door fifteen to

600
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,000
twenty feet ahead, I remember thinking, I don't know if

601
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,240
I have legs, but I know if I have an intention,

602
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,359
I can perambulate toward that door, which now cracks me

603
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,319
up that I'd use the word perambulate, you know, I

604
00:30:18,359 --> 00:30:22,000
think lock would have done, but I didn't know. And

605
00:30:22,079 --> 00:30:24,799
I'm so disappointed that I didn't look down at my feet,

606
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,119
my legs, my kansas, see what I look like. But

607
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,039
I've heard that from other people who have had this experience.

608
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:31,599
So I get to the door.

609
00:30:33,279 --> 00:30:35,799
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,

610
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:40,720
and now back to the show.

611
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 2: And I go to put my right hand up to

612
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:51,759
move through the door, and pretty interested by the fact

613
00:30:51,839 --> 00:30:54,400
right handed on earth and right handed in heaven. You know,

614
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:58,640
still that's part of my identity. But I paused, and

615
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,920
I asked the angel with me or a spiritual being,

616
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,279
whatever I said, is this the divine will for my life?

617
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:06,480
And what I was going to say, is this the

618
00:31:06,519 --> 00:31:08,400
divine will for my life that a medical mistake sends

619
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,480
me on to my reward? And before I could even

620
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,880
get is this the divine the answer was again immediate,

621
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:18,240
and the answer was no, no, but whatever you decide,

622
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,839
you go with all of God's blessings and mercy and

623
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,599
grace and love and care. And that was the answer

624
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:27,799
to that third prayer or the second prayer that I

625
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,480
can't handle any more decisions. I mean, this is a

626
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,359
pretty big decision, decide if you go to heaven or

627
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:38,279
stay on earth. And I was told it's okay. And

628
00:31:38,319 --> 00:31:40,440
one of the things one of the takeaways for me

629
00:31:40,519 --> 00:31:43,400
on this is if we are trying to do good,

630
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:45,119
if we are trying to do the will of God.

631
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,079
We're not going to make a wrong decision because even

632
00:31:48,119 --> 00:31:51,279
if we take the long way around the barn, we're

633
00:31:51,279 --> 00:31:53,519
gonna end up back where we need to be. And

634
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:55,680
I has been such a blessing to me. When I'm

635
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:57,680
faced with a hard decision, I think, oh, what do

636
00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,799
I do? What do I do? And I think, just

637
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,480
listen to God and the angels, and you're even if

638
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,559
you get it wrong, God can help you navigate out

639
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,519
back out to the right path. So that was the answer,

640
00:32:09,559 --> 00:32:11,759
is no, yeah, but whatever you decide to do, you

641
00:32:11,839 --> 00:32:15,000
go with all the blessings. And so I thought, all right,

642
00:32:15,359 --> 00:32:18,519
I'm going I'm done with this earth. I am so

643
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,599
over this because one of the things about being the

644
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,880
suicide survivor, as we are known, is that you become

645
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,680
a twenty first century leper. Nobody wants to be near you.

646
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,720
You're scary, you know. I can't tell you how many

647
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:36,359
people at a visitation walked past the casket and said,

648
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:38,599
I mean closed casket of course, and said things to

649
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,559
me like I just lay down and die. If anything

650
00:32:41,599 --> 00:32:44,799
ever happened to my Bobby, like, oh, you're right. I

651
00:32:44,839 --> 00:32:46,880
didn't love my husband as much as you love him,

652
00:32:47,359 --> 00:32:47,799
got it?

653
00:32:48,039 --> 00:32:50,559
Speaker 1: They have to say, I have no idea what to

654
00:32:50,599 --> 00:32:51,079
say or do.

655
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:52,279
Speaker 2: They just say the wrong thing.

656
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:54,799
Speaker 1: And it's also and it's also I've had I've talked

657
00:32:54,799 --> 00:32:57,240
to so many people who've gone through what you've gone through,

658
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:02,279
and then also losing children, and you know, and these

659
00:33:02,279 --> 00:33:06,640
are pains that you can't quantify. It's something you cannot

660
00:33:07,559 --> 00:33:10,720
express or quantify. And people who have children or have

661
00:33:10,799 --> 00:33:13,839
a spouse, they automatically go to like what would happen

662
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,119
if that happened to me? And then they just get

663
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,400
scared and they have no idea what to say, and

664
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,319
then they say something wrong, you know, like what I

665
00:33:21,359 --> 00:33:23,359
was talking. I was talking to a trauma survivor the

666
00:33:23,359 --> 00:33:25,319
other day and he's like, yeah, they would just come

667
00:33:25,359 --> 00:33:28,200
in they're like just get over it. Like I'm like

668
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:33,079
what like because they just truly have no arsenal of

669
00:33:33,119 --> 00:33:35,799
what to say to somebody who has gone through that,

670
00:33:35,839 --> 00:33:39,160
so that sometimes they you know, they try. Sometimes they

671
00:33:39,279 --> 00:33:40,599
just like I don't want to deal with you. Can

672
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:41,279
you just move on?

673
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,079
Speaker 2: And like all that I know and all that stuff

674
00:33:46,079 --> 00:33:48,119
they say. It became clear to me fairly early on

675
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:49,680
in this process, all that stuff they say is for

676
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,440
their comfort and make themselves comfortable. And there's a guy

677
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,839
who does grieve counseling online who lost a beautiful teenage

678
00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:00,759
daughter to disease. I think it was flew or something,

679
00:34:00,799 --> 00:34:05,119
but somebody actually said to him if you hadn't gone,

680
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,200
if you hadn't given her that coughs here, she'd probably

681
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:11,159
still be alive. She's yeah, saying that to comfort him.

682
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,519
You're saying that because they think, oh, I'll make sure

683
00:34:14,559 --> 00:34:17,440
I don't make that mistake. And the thing, the one

684
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:19,679
thing I will not answer on a podcast. There's a couple,

685
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:22,559
but one is why did he do this? You know

686
00:34:22,599 --> 00:34:23,559
what doesn't matter.

687
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:24,119
Speaker 1: It's done.

688
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 2: He's dead, he's gone. And oh my gosh, I had

689
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,440
one podcaster I threatened to disconnect on because he's like,

690
00:34:29,679 --> 00:34:32,159
it's important to know. And I'm like, no, what, you

691
00:34:32,199 --> 00:34:36,119
know what? That's kim, that's always he's dead.

692
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 1: Horrible question to ask.

693
00:34:39,159 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 2: My God, I'm prepared for it now, I'm ready.

694
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,840
Speaker 1: Now you're kidding me. That's irrelevant to the to the story.

695
00:34:46,559 --> 00:34:50,400
I mean, it truly is irrelevant to I'm a filmmaker,

696
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,719
so as a filmmaker and a screenwriter, you kind of

697
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:57,280
like it doesn't matter. It's called the mcguffin like it's like,

698
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:00,400
it's just the point. It's point of what moves the

699
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,519
story forward in a narrative standpoint. So I would never

700
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,360
ask a question like that, just as another human be

701
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:09,840
what what are you talking about?

702
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,760
Speaker 2: So amazing? So you're in the room, what I was

703
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:15,480
gonna say? Yeah, And I get to the door and

704
00:35:15,519 --> 00:35:17,400
I'm ready to push through, and you know, whatever you

705
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:19,480
decide to be ritually blessed. I'm like, cool, I'm out

706
00:35:19,519 --> 00:35:21,440
of here. You know you don't have to ask me.

707
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 1: Twice you gave me to get out of a jail card.

708
00:35:23,559 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 2: I would go, yeah, right and then uh. And then

709
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,400
I am shown a scene and to say it was people,

710
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:32,159
I tried to call it a vision. I realized people

711
00:35:32,159 --> 00:35:34,159
are misinterpreting that, like, you know, I had some dream

712
00:35:34,159 --> 00:35:36,880
in heaven. But what happened was I was in a

713
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,159
room like kind of mentally in this asylum observer in

714
00:35:40,199 --> 00:35:42,800
a room where this nurse who'd shown me such kindness

715
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,920
is sitting on a little metal stool and she's surrounded

716
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,280
by linens and the hospital supplies and everything. She's in

717
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,920
this little quiet supply room and she's leaning forward on stool,

718
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,440
head her hands, sobbing incontrollably, and I'm watching this. I'm

719
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,480
like a silent observer. And it wasn't just a vision.

720
00:35:55,639 --> 00:35:57,480
I was in the room with this woman, you know,

721
00:35:57,519 --> 00:36:00,280
and this was a potential future. This wasn't happening. They're

722
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,239
busy trying to get my heart glowing again, you know.

723
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:04,760
But she sobbing, and through her tears I hear her

724
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,239
say I promised that woman. I wasn't going to let

725
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:11,719
her die. And I lost her and I was like, oh, well,

726
00:36:12,119 --> 00:36:14,440
this isn't fair. She looked at me about my age.

727
00:36:14,599 --> 00:36:17,400
She's fifty nine, She's lost people before. She'll get over it,

728
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:21,760
you know. Life goes on. And then I didn't just

729
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:26,239
observe her, but I felt that pain. I guess in

730
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:31,400
the solar plexus, that grief, that deep haunting grief and

731
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,920
regret and despair and self recrimination all the rest of it.

732
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:37,280
And I recognize that is the same thing i'd felt

733
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:39,519
because the last conversation I had with my husband before

734
00:36:39,559 --> 00:36:41,519
he did this was over the phone. We had an

735
00:36:41,639 --> 00:36:44,400
argument that he started, which I've learned, by the way,

736
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,800
for all suicide rivers, that's very common. It's like they

737
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:49,679
have to get their angst up to go through with

738
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:53,760
the act. But I felt that same angst with her,

739
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,440
and I remember thinking, if I can spare one human

740
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,519
being that much suffering, I think I have to go back.

741
00:37:00,599 --> 00:37:04,000
And you know the moral of his story is God

742
00:37:04,079 --> 00:37:07,800
knows his impats, God knows how to get us.

743
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 1: You know. And I was like, so what happened? So

744
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:13,400
what happened?

745
00:37:13,559 --> 00:37:14,760
Speaker 2: You so cool?

746
00:37:15,519 --> 00:37:15,599
Speaker 1: Is?

747
00:37:15,679 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 2: In a millisecond, I was there was no backwards wush,

748
00:37:19,559 --> 00:37:21,960
There was no you know, there was no rolling back

749
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:24,760
slides back in that body in that er, and uh,

750
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:26,519
I was. I opened my eyes and I'm like, wait

751
00:37:26,559 --> 00:37:29,000
a second. And I remember being pretty tick because I

752
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,679
thought I died. That was a lot of energy involved

753
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,519
to die. And I remember there was an angel in

754
00:37:35,559 --> 00:37:37,440
the upp left hand corner of the room, just like

755
00:37:37,679 --> 00:37:40,519
a being of light does. This sounds crazy, but it

756
00:37:40,559 --> 00:37:43,159
was like an energy ball of light and I could

757
00:37:43,159 --> 00:37:46,400
see that angel up there, and I said mentally, I

758
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,800
said to the angel, hey, I flew away with it.

759
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,960
Robert's rules of orders, we had a first, we didn't

760
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,280
have a second, and we certainly didn't have a discussion phase.

761
00:37:56,159 --> 00:37:58,559
I don't remember agreeing to this, and the angels just

762
00:37:58,639 --> 00:38:00,599
kind of angels aren't real good about ants in questions.

763
00:38:00,639 --> 00:38:02,280
The angel just kind of looked at me and said, Hi,

764
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:07,039
you're back. And very early on, I don't know the

765
00:38:07,079 --> 00:38:09,239
precise timing because I, you know, I had blood to death.

766
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:11,320
Your brain activity slows a little bit when it doesn't

767
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:15,280
have any blood oxygen. But uh, that nurse was back

768
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:17,280
in my face. I think it was the same nurse.

769
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,039
But you know, my eyes are open and I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

770
00:38:20,119 --> 00:38:22,559
And the nurse says, what is your name? And I

771
00:38:22,599 --> 00:38:24,480
said Rosemary? And she said what year is it? I

772
00:38:24,519 --> 00:38:26,880
said twenty eighteen and she said where are you? And

773
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:30,400
I said a crummy excuse for an er, But she

774
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:32,679
kind of took umbrage at that, and she goes, have

775
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:37,119
you know this is an a credited facility. So we loaded.

776
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 1: That's amazing.

777
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:42,119
Speaker 2: Because the thing is, the thing that's really cool is

778
00:38:42,159 --> 00:38:44,840
I was dead well more than ten minutes.

779
00:38:44,559 --> 00:38:47,280
Speaker 1: And so you were clinically So you were clinically dead.

780
00:38:47,559 --> 00:38:49,840
Speaker 2: You were out more than ten minutes. And I didn't

781
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:51,440
find out about that till the next day at the

782
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:55,320
hospital where they explained to me your heart stopped so

783
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:57,760
so that that was correct. I mean, I have documented

784
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,599
medical evidence my heart did indeed stop, but I was

785
00:39:00,639 --> 00:39:03,280
gone for more than ten minutes. And the thing is

786
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:05,119
I interviewed to write my book. I interviewed a lot

787
00:39:05,119 --> 00:39:09,360
of medical personnel. When you bleed to death, that so

788
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:11,599
much that you your heart stops speeding because it's just

789
00:39:11,639 --> 00:39:15,400
a pump, you know, ran out of fluid. They plug

790
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:18,519
the leak, refill the tank, and restart the heart. That's

791
00:39:18,559 --> 00:39:20,159
the order in which they do things. They cannot do

792
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:22,400
CPR on somebody who's bled to death because it just

793
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,119
forces more blood out of the system. So I was

794
00:39:25,199 --> 00:39:27,320
well more than ten minutes with no blood supply to

795
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,679
the brain. So when that nurse said what is your name?

796
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:34,039
I actually interviewed an anisthesiologist about this, because they have to

797
00:39:34,079 --> 00:39:37,000
make they have to doctors often, I make decisions about

798
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,000
bring somebody backers have been too long. And he cried

799
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:41,800
when I told him this story when the nurse said

800
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,239
what is your name? And all that, and I said,

801
00:39:44,559 --> 00:39:46,760
why are you becoming emotional? And he said, you have

802
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:50,519
no idea. How relieved the medical staff was when you

803
00:39:50,599 --> 00:39:54,400
responded intelligently to their questions, because when you bring somebody

804
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,920
back after five minutes. It's an iffy proposition, you don't know.

805
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:00,559
The belief is that after five to six minutes there'll

806
00:40:00,599 --> 00:40:04,119
be substantial brain death, and there wasn't. In fact, I

807
00:40:04,119 --> 00:40:06,760
think I got a serious upgrade. As my friend Brian says,

808
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:08,280
I didn't come back as Rosemary V.

809
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:08,559
Speaker 1: Too.

810
00:40:08,559 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 2: I came back as Rosemary V. Twenty seven. But they

811
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:14,199
loaded me in an ambulance pretty quick. You know, when

812
00:40:14,199 --> 00:40:16,440
you died a little we are they can't. They're like, oh, oh, ware,

813
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:20,079
you go get out of here, you go here. Yeah,

814
00:40:20,159 --> 00:40:22,079
And then in the ambulance they were afraid I died too,

815
00:40:22,079 --> 00:40:24,519
and I was taken to a trauma center and there

816
00:40:24,599 --> 00:40:26,440
I was there for several days. And my friend who

817
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:29,119
observed this, he had been a Vietnam erametic, and he said,

818
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:30,800
because he didn't see me again n till they wheeled

819
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:33,440
me out to the ambulance. And he said, you've heard

820
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,320
the expression white as a sheet. He said, you were

821
00:40:36,599 --> 00:40:39,639
literally white as a sheet. And he said, but your

822
00:40:39,639 --> 00:40:42,760
lips were dark blue and under your eyes was dark blue.

823
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:46,000
So it was a pretty profound experience. And then I

824
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,000
was at the hospital for several days and they took

825
00:40:48,039 --> 00:40:50,920
good care of me, and I was sent home, and

826
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:52,760
I wasn't really ready to go home, because you in

827
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:55,480
the hospital, they bring you apple sauce and jello and drinks,

828
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:58,280
and you say, I think i'd like a cranberry juice now,

829
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:00,360
and boy, it's right there.

830
00:41:01,079 --> 00:41:03,599
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,

831
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:08,519
and now back to the show.

832
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:13,880
Speaker 2: But the doctor came in, and that was the other

833
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,320
interesting experience. After you bleed to death in a big

834
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,760
corporate hospital, you get the doctor that's been around a while.

835
00:41:20,559 --> 00:41:22,400
You don't get the doctor that you know might make

836
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:24,679
a booboo here and there. You get the doctor's been around,

837
00:41:24,679 --> 00:41:26,320
and he was very kind. And he's the one who

838
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,360
explained to me that they thought I would have substantial

839
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:31,960
heart damage because of the severity of my heart attack,

840
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:34,360
which is technically what I died from was a heart attack.

841
00:41:35,079 --> 00:41:37,079
But I said, no, no, no, only worry about that.

842
00:41:37,079 --> 00:41:38,480
The angel said, if I agreed to come back, I'd

843
00:41:38,519 --> 00:41:40,800
be whole, hole and fine, fine and whole. And they

844
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:42,800
still wheel you all for all the little tests, you know,

845
00:41:43,559 --> 00:41:46,880
and the doctor, I remember every morning, that nice, lovely

846
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:50,360
doctor would sit down on my bedside and say missus Thornton,

847
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:52,519
you're a very lucky woman. There's no damage to your

848
00:41:52,519 --> 00:41:55,480
heart whatsoever. In fact, your heart's very healthy, which did

849
00:41:55,519 --> 00:41:58,639
not correlate with the first blood test that showed I'd

850
00:41:58,639 --> 00:42:02,400
had substantial heart damage from ellivated enzimes. So this went

851
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:04,880
on and on, and it sent me home, not because

852
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:06,440
it was time to send me home, but they said

853
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,239
my white blood cell count was so low from having

854
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:11,960
bled out that I was well. The way the doctor

855
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:15,440
explained it, which was very thoughtful, he said, if you

856
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,559
pick up an opportunistic infection from the hospital, he said,

857
00:42:18,559 --> 00:42:20,519
we won't be able to save you. So I was like, oh,

858
00:42:20,599 --> 00:42:22,719
I guess the way we go. And then it took

859
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:24,320
some time. I had to find another doctor. I went

860
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:26,199
back to the original on collegists were I was supposed

861
00:42:26,199 --> 00:42:28,960
to start the chemotherapy, and he said, you're you're We're

862
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:30,960
having our tutorial on Monday, and then a few days

863
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,880
after that we'll start you on the chemo, you know,

864
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:35,960
a few days after you've recovered from this ordeal. And

865
00:42:36,079 --> 00:42:39,360
I said, well, actually I was healed in heaven. I

866
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:41,199
was told if I agreed come back, I'd be healed.

867
00:42:42,039 --> 00:42:44,119
And they, you know, they do this portal thing where

868
00:42:44,159 --> 00:42:47,559
they make your chart online, make you ailable online. He

869
00:42:47,559 --> 00:42:50,880
put in my chart. I was mentally ill, so I

870
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:53,840
had to go find another on collogist in another part

871
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:59,000
of the state. On collegis was a lot more interested

872
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:00,719
than the fact that I had to death from a

873
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,880
cervical biopsy. Then I was healed in heaven. It's all

874
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:06,280
good news, but I did want an affirmation, you know,

875
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:09,639
I wanted to be sure. And that second oncologist was

876
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:13,199
very kind and very thorough, and there was another surgery,

877
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:16,599
and she took lots of flesh from a lot of

878
00:43:16,599 --> 00:43:20,440
places and had it checked by multiple what do you

879
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:23,159
call the people who do those biopsies, the lab people anyway,

880
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:27,199
multiple people, and even had in prison in the operating

881
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:29,280
room and sell ef samples of blah blah blah blah blah.

882
00:43:30,079 --> 00:43:33,679
But she it all came back. In fact, what she

883
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,239
told me, she said, is not only do you not

884
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:41,559
have one cell of cancer anywhere that we've looked, she said,

885
00:43:41,599 --> 00:43:45,199
but your flesh is so pink and pretty and perfect.

886
00:43:45,639 --> 00:43:48,199
I wouldn't believe you'd ever had cancer had I not

887
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:50,440
seen the original tests, Because I don't know if you know.

888
00:43:50,519 --> 00:43:52,519
So once you get diagnosed with something like this. There's

889
00:43:52,679 --> 00:43:58,800
MRIs with contrast, MRIs without contrast, pet scans, physical exams,

890
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,320
and at the first doc, I mean, the thing that

891
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:04,920
started all this is a lot of physical symptoms, a

892
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:10,039
lot of very disturbing physical symptoms. And you know, I've

893
00:44:10,039 --> 00:44:12,199
already had people say all the usual stuff, Oh, you

894
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:14,760
never had cancer to begin with. Well that's not what

895
00:44:15,159 --> 00:44:18,960
three doctors said, you know, actually it has two doctors,

896
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:21,960
and what do they call that? A nurse practitioner? It

897
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,840
was visible upon examination, and why would three people lie

898
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:26,960
at three different offices?

899
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:27,239
Speaker 1: You know.

900
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 2: So it's funny people come up with all these excuses.

901
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:33,800
You know, Olkham's rais or the simplest solution is usually

902
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:34,400
the right one.

903
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:36,199
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, people, because.

904
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:38,400
Speaker 2: People can't believe that we're spiritual beings.

905
00:44:39,039 --> 00:44:41,760
Speaker 1: So that brings me to my next question. So I,

906
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:45,239
as you know, I have spoken to I think nearly

907
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:47,880
one hundred near death experiencers at this point in my show,

908
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:52,760
and a lot of times people you know, the constant

909
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:55,440
of oh they were just dreaming. Oh it's some sort

910
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:58,639
of liquid that went off in their head and you're dying.

911
00:45:00,079 --> 00:45:04,880
All this kind of stuff. For the skeptic who's watching

912
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:07,840
right now, because you actually are interesting because one, you

913
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:12,079
had admitted to being a near death experience, you know,

914
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:15,880
enjoying those stories, so you add an obscene amount of

915
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:19,599
these stories in your mind already. One. Two, you're a

916
00:45:19,639 --> 00:45:23,960
professional writer on top of this, your unique I've never

917
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:27,760
had that happen before. So for everyone listening who might

918
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:31,920
be questioning the validity of this experience, what would you

919
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:36,280
say to them? Because I mean, on a logical standpoint,

920
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:37,920
you understand where I'm coming from, right.

921
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:38,920
Speaker 2: Oh, I do.

922
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:39,280
Speaker 1: I do it.

923
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:41,679
Speaker 2: And my favorite is when people say she's just in

924
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:42,639
it for the money.

925
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:46,119
Speaker 1: Of course, she wrote the book the millions, right, you

926
00:45:46,159 --> 00:45:48,840
get millions, don't you? From the books? Millions?

927
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:51,559
Speaker 2: These people I have a co author who have read

928
00:45:51,599 --> 00:45:55,119
a couple architectural books with me, and we repeat that

929
00:45:55,199 --> 00:45:59,119
line and laugh herself silly. Oh yeah, we're in it

930
00:45:59,159 --> 00:46:01,480
for the money. Which do we lose on that second book?

931
00:46:01,559 --> 00:46:01,719
Speaker 1: Oh?

932
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:04,239
Speaker 2: We only lost five grand on that one. That one

933
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:05,280
wasn't too bad.

934
00:46:05,639 --> 00:46:07,840
Speaker 1: You know that's the thing that everyone thinks you may

935
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:12,039
I've published books, and I know like you make it.

936
00:46:12,159 --> 00:46:13,960
Look if you self publish and make some money, if

937
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:17,239
you're smart and you have an audience, but no one's

938
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:18,119
retiring on it.

939
00:46:18,199 --> 00:46:21,159
Speaker 2: Publish picture books, no no, no.

940
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:23,559
Speaker 1: No, no. Picture books are way too expensive to publish yourself.

941
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:25,800
So that's the thing. Yeah, people always use that excuse.

942
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:30,320
Unless your last name is King, Patterson or Rolling, you're

943
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:32,519
not going to get super rich off of these things,

944
00:46:32,639 --> 00:46:34,920
generally speaking, generally speak well.

945
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:36,760
Speaker 2: And the other thing is you know that you're in

946
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:39,360
it for the money. I love that one because one

947
00:46:39,599 --> 00:46:45,119
I had it was actually involved two mega hospitals, corporate

948
00:46:45,199 --> 00:46:48,400
own mega hospitals, were involved in the killing of Rosemary.

949
00:46:48,639 --> 00:46:50,880
You know, if I was in it for the money,

950
00:46:51,159 --> 00:46:53,760
I would assue them to Kingdom come and I probably

951
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,639
would have got an a fair settlement. But I chose

952
00:46:56,760 --> 00:47:01,880
not to sue because when you sue somebody, you're declaring

953
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:04,880
war on an individual. And I didn't want that. I

954
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:09,519
wanted these. And the second thing, when I was being

955
00:47:09,559 --> 00:47:12,280
loaded into that ambulance to be transported from the little

956
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:16,320
yard to the trauma center, I remember thinking, Wow, my

957
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:19,199
whole life I've spent reading about NDEs and this was

958
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:21,679
nothing like any of them. I never heard about a

959
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:24,360
white room. Now, subsequently, I've got a lot of emails

960
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,800
from people saying I went to a white room too.

961
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:28,679
I've heard that, yeah, because.

962
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:30,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've had a couple of white rooms, but not

963
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:31,360
like yours.

964
00:47:31,559 --> 00:47:34,039
Speaker 2: But to the scoffers, I say, if I was going

965
00:47:34,079 --> 00:47:36,480
to write a book about this, I would follow the

966
00:47:36,559 --> 00:47:39,800
traditional patterns. I would not come up with all this

967
00:47:40,039 --> 00:47:43,119
crazy you know, not so much love but peace floating

968
00:47:43,159 --> 00:47:46,920
away perambulate white room. I would have stayed truer to

969
00:47:47,079 --> 00:47:49,440
the original. And then the other thing, you know, this

970
00:47:49,559 --> 00:47:52,079
is just the brain shutting down. I hear that a lot. Okay,

971
00:47:52,159 --> 00:47:56,800
when I died, I had stage two cancer visible upon

972
00:47:56,840 --> 00:48:00,639
physical exam. When I came back, it was gone. Now

973
00:48:00,639 --> 00:48:04,360
that's not the brain shutting down. That's something divine, that's

974
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:05,360
something spiritual.

975
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:07,760
Speaker 1: And then that's when people say, oh, well you didn't

976
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:12,480
have cancer originally, and oh the because it's so fascinating.

977
00:48:12,559 --> 00:48:14,840
It's fascinating when I because I hear this all the

978
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:17,199
time because of the people I interview. I interview near

979
00:48:17,199 --> 00:48:21,360
death experiences channelers, even spiritual gurus, and when they talk

980
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:25,239
about miraculous stuff, the people just like they don't know

981
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:28,199
how to talk to you because you're a suicide survivor.

982
00:48:29,559 --> 00:48:30,960
The same thing is like they don't know how to

983
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:33,519
talk to you if this exists in the world, because

984
00:48:33,519 --> 00:48:37,280
it completely disrupts their paradigm, their programming to the point

985
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:39,079
where like, well, wait a minute. If there is a heaven,

986
00:48:39,119 --> 00:48:41,719
then that means wait a minute, and they start sh

987
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:45,760
short circuiting, so either they attack you or they come

988
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:48,280
up with something to make themselves feel better so they

989
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:50,599
can go to sleep at night. So like, I can't

990
00:48:50,639 --> 00:48:53,239
live in a world where there are near death experiences

991
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:57,079
because if that world exists, that means that there's bigger

992
00:48:57,119 --> 00:48:59,599
things in the world that I'm really not who I am,

993
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:01,800
and it just starts to spot you start going down

994
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:04,320
a rabbit hole of all of these things that just

995
00:49:05,079 --> 00:49:08,199
your foundation is disrupted. So that's why it didn't do

996
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:08,880
that so much.

997
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:11,920
Speaker 2: And one of the things that happened, and I remember

998
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:15,320
this so clearly, I've read in multiple places people say

999
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:17,000
when they had an MD, it was like waking up

1000
00:49:17,039 --> 00:49:19,639
from a dream, you know, when it dies. And that

1001
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:23,480
was my experience when I when I was floating away

1002
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:25,400
for my body initially catapulted it out of my body.

1003
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:27,880
I remember thinking, well, I had fifty nine years suit

1004
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:30,159
went by in a flash, and I was like this

1005
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:33,559
is reality. This experience I'm in now, you know, floating

1006
00:49:33,559 --> 00:49:36,400
away from my body is reality. It really was like

1007
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:39,800
waking up from an intense stream. And I mean, that's

1008
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:44,159
the best description I can come up with. But the scoffers,

1009
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:47,920
I've had so many scoffers, and I get the emails too.

1010
00:49:48,199 --> 00:49:50,239
I get either, you know, spawn of Satan.

1011
00:49:51,039 --> 00:49:54,440
Speaker 1: Oh, obviously, demonic work. Obviously that's a that's a that's

1012
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:59,039
a go to your possessed demons. Were Can you imagine

1013
00:49:59,039 --> 00:50:01,280
when I have a channel and they channel someone live

1014
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:03,760
on my show, They're like, that's the devil. I'm like, obviously,

1015
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:06,639
it's the devil. He's just talking about peace of.

1016
00:50:08,159 --> 00:50:10,079
Speaker 2: Right if I talks about the fruit of the spirit,

1017
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:11,920
What have I done with my life? I sold off

1018
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:14,760
all my personal possessions. I still I had a fancy,

1019
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:17,000
new shiny car I bought. I sold it. I bought

1020
00:50:17,039 --> 00:50:19,639
a used Prius c I don't know if you're familiar

1021
00:50:19,679 --> 00:50:23,760
with the Prius. I know Prius look like a Cadillac. Yes,

1022
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:28,119
this big. I got rid of most of my possessions,

1023
00:50:28,119 --> 00:50:30,280
pretty much all of my furniture, and I moved a

1024
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:32,440
thousand miles due west. At the Midwest because I like

1025
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:34,440
to watch corn grow. People laugh at that. I put

1026
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:37,239
it on my match dot Com profile, let's just say

1027
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:40,519
my online dating profile. And I like to watch corn grow.

1028
00:50:41,079 --> 00:50:43,239
I literally love it. Do you ever really watch corn?

1029
00:50:43,679 --> 00:50:44,159
It's fast?

1030
00:50:44,199 --> 00:50:46,280
Speaker 1: I see it. It is a pretty I've actually not

1031
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:48,840
sat and watched it, but it is a pretty interesting

1032
00:50:49,039 --> 00:50:51,880
crop from where it starts to where it grows up

1033
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:53,840
to pretty quickly. It's pretty awesome.

1034
00:50:54,039 --> 00:50:57,079
Speaker 2: Yes it is. I mean, take it's little, anybody's seed.

1035
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:01,360
Speaker 1: We'll be right back. Throw a word from our sponsor,

1036
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:06,280
and now back to the show.

1037
00:51:08,559 --> 00:51:11,239
Speaker 2: And it's shoved into the ground. You know, it's just

1038
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:15,039
trounced into the dirt, and it looks like all hope

1039
00:51:15,079 --> 00:51:17,639
is lost. And then they give it a little a

1040
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:20,199
little fertilizer. You know, they put more pooh on it.

1041
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:22,559
You know, it's not enough to be trounced in the ground.

1042
00:51:22,599 --> 00:51:24,519
And now it gets pooh on top of it, and

1043
00:51:24,559 --> 00:51:28,000
then it gets soaked and then it springs forth. And

1044
00:51:28,039 --> 00:51:31,239
I just something about corn. I love watching things grow,

1045
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:34,039
and I mean love. I mean this thing changed me

1046
00:51:34,159 --> 00:51:38,239
a lot, it changed it. I had a neuroscientist travel

1047
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:40,440
from a nearby state to meet me, and we went out,

1048
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:44,480
had a lovely dinner together, and she said, the reason

1049
00:51:44,559 --> 00:51:47,320
she believes my story is not because of you know,

1050
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:50,760
the cancer and it's gone and is she said, human

1051
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:54,360
beings are not hardwired to change that quickly. The brain

1052
00:51:54,679 --> 00:51:57,480
just doesn't switch from this way to that way in

1053
00:51:57,519 --> 00:52:01,679
an instant, she said, But you did something profound happened

1054
00:52:01,679 --> 00:52:05,440
to you to go from one this deep grief. And

1055
00:52:05,679 --> 00:52:09,400
the thing I was told in heavn't about my husband's death.

1056
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:13,280
And this is probably the most important which I tend

1057
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:16,159
to forget, but I was told that everything that had

1058
00:52:16,159 --> 00:52:20,360
happened around his suicide and all that misery had been encapsulated,

1059
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:23,920
which is a very interesting word, and that's often what

1060
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:28,199
we use an architectural like if a house has a contaminant,

1061
00:52:28,519 --> 00:52:33,719
you know, lead paint or other certain white mensis. Yeah,

1062
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:35,880
I don't even like saying the word, but that's what

1063
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:38,440
they do. They will often encapsulate it because the process

1064
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:41,400
of removal can release more contaminants into the air. In

1065
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:43,280
some cases, when they try to do this in school buildings,

1066
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:45,199
they have to destroy the school building because it's just

1067
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:48,800
releasing it everywhere. But I was told that this whole misery,

1068
00:52:49,039 --> 00:52:51,440
which is what it was, had been encapsulated, and it

1069
00:52:51,519 --> 00:52:53,840
was a thing, and it had happened, and it was there,

1070
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:57,599
but it couldn't hurt me anymore. And that was profound.

1071
00:52:57,719 --> 00:52:59,159
That was explaining it to me in a way that

1072
00:52:59,199 --> 00:53:02,360
I could understand. So that gave me so much peace.

1073
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:04,519
And I still cry over him, and I still feel

1074
00:53:04,519 --> 00:53:08,159
sad at times, but I'm not in the depths of

1075
00:53:08,199 --> 00:53:10,440
hell anymore. You know, the Bible says, if I make

1076
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:13,239
my bed in Hell, thou art there. I'd set up

1077
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:16,239
housekeeping in Hell. I was just I had settled into that,

1078
00:53:16,679 --> 00:53:20,079
and this experience said, you're not going to get to

1079
00:53:20,079 --> 00:53:23,199
stay in hell. You know, that's not what you're made for.

1080
00:53:23,519 --> 00:53:26,199
That's not where you're supposed to live. So it took

1081
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:28,960
me out of hell. So the healing of the disease

1082
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:32,519
process is very important. But you know Psalm twenty third,

1083
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:36,320
twenty three says, he restores my soul. My soul got rebooted.

1084
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:39,880
My soul got restored. That's the real healing. And the

1085
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:41,920
thing I just, I mean, this happened five years ago

1086
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:46,159
next month, this whole thing, the near death experience occurred.

1087
00:53:46,519 --> 00:53:48,400
The thing I just thought about in the last six

1088
00:53:48,599 --> 00:53:51,519
months because this I don't remember anymore, but the experience

1089
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:57,480
continues to unfold. My body was on that gurney. It's

1090
00:53:57,559 --> 00:53:59,880
my soul or my essence or my spirit that went

1091
00:54:00,079 --> 00:54:03,559
to heaven. But that's where the healing happened. And when

1092
00:54:03,559 --> 00:54:05,920
I went back to my body, the cancer was gone.

1093
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:08,559
So I mean, it's not my body that got hauled

1094
00:54:08,599 --> 00:54:12,360
up to heaven for a reboot. It was my consciousness,

1095
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:16,480
my spirit, my essence, my soul. So I really believe,

1096
00:54:16,519 --> 00:54:18,000
and I get in a lot of trouble for saying

1097
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:21,000
this too, but I really believe the next great frontier

1098
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:25,159
in medicine is going to be spiritual healing. I really do.

1099
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:29,599
Speaker 1: I understand what you're saying. Now, Rose, let me ask you,

1100
00:54:30,159 --> 00:54:32,239
when you came back out of this and you had

1101
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:36,159
this experience, it seems that you did not have any

1102
00:54:36,199 --> 00:54:39,800
issue psychologically dealing with what had happened. Did you come

1103
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:42,199
out of the clauset start talking to everybody, Hey, guys,

1104
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:45,639
you know this is what happened. Did you keep it

1105
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:48,559
quiet for a while before you kind of came out. No,

1106
00:54:48,679 --> 00:54:52,320
it didn't sound like you were like, Ah, I've been

1107
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:54,519
waiting for this for a while. I want to talk

1108
00:54:54,519 --> 00:54:56,119
to everybody, but I don't care if you listen or not,

1109
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:58,159
because a lot of people hold onto it for a

1110
00:54:58,199 --> 00:55:02,119
decade sometimes because they can't process it. You seem to

1111
00:55:02,159 --> 00:55:05,559
have been able to process this experience in that sense

1112
00:55:06,159 --> 00:55:09,599
very very easily, and you start yapping about it to

1113
00:55:09,639 --> 00:55:10,599
everybody who will listen.

1114
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:14,639
Speaker 2: Well. In fact, several people said, are you going to

1115
00:55:14,639 --> 00:55:16,320
write a book about it? I said, I've written nine,

1116
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:18,039
not going to be a tenth. You know, I'll share

1117
00:55:18,079 --> 00:55:19,960
the story with people that it will help and bless,

1118
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:22,280
but there will be no tenth book. We are cooked

1119
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:24,480
and done on this book business. But yeah, I couldn't.

1120
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:26,519
I couldn't shut up, you know, I couldn't show. And

1121
00:55:26,519 --> 00:55:28,920
that is a neophyte mistake, you know, we all do that.

1122
00:55:29,519 --> 00:55:31,639
And then I learned to be more circumspect, and then

1123
00:55:31,639 --> 00:55:33,199
I did write the book. But I didn't write the

1124
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:36,000
book until I was sitting in church about six months afterwards.

1125
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:40,039
And I know this sounds crazy, but an angel appeared

1126
00:55:40,039 --> 00:55:41,800
to me at the end of the pew and said, hey,

1127
00:55:42,679 --> 00:55:45,440
where's the book. I mean, I thought the angels speak

1128
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:49,119
love and light and grace and gentleness. Yeah, and he

1129
00:55:49,199 --> 00:55:52,480
was dressed like a warrior, you know, the sword and

1130
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:54,960
the fancy warrior armor. What do you call it? The

1131
00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:58,119
protect Yeah, the armor. Thank you. And he was like, hey,

1132
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:01,519
stop worrying about your pride and your physically because I'd

1133
00:56:01,559 --> 00:56:03,679
been having a tummy ache for several days. He says,

1134
00:56:03,679 --> 00:56:07,880
stop worry about your stomach and your pride. Right that book.

1135
00:56:08,199 --> 00:56:11,280
And I was like, okay, So I went home and

1136
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:14,719
started on the book. But yeah, I felt very directed

1137
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:19,079
and the book, the book is I've had a lot

1138
00:56:19,079 --> 00:56:21,119
of good comments. If you go to you know, the

1139
00:56:21,119 --> 00:56:24,960
world's number one bookseller, the reviews are either this book

1140
00:56:25,159 --> 00:56:28,960
has helped me so much or she's from Satan.

1141
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:30,199
Speaker 1: There's nothing in between.

1142
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:31,760
Speaker 2: And you know what I get the most trouble for

1143
00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:34,239
is using a feminine pronoun to describe God. Now, if

1144
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:37,239
if I met the original in heaven and this experience,

1145
00:56:37,559 --> 00:56:40,599
if I met the original and I'm female, why can't

1146
00:56:40,599 --> 00:56:43,800
I say that God might have feminine qualities? But that's

1147
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:50,599
what produces the most the most email, hasn't I explain

1148
00:56:50,679 --> 00:56:53,639
this in the book. My father abandoned the family. He

1149
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:55,880
was bad news and not a nice guy. Blah blah

1150
00:56:55,920 --> 00:56:59,119
blah blah blah, I think of God, his father, I'm like, no, thanks,

1151
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:00,719
I think of his mother.

1152
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:05,840
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, Well, it's because Michelangelo did not paint

1153
00:57:06,159 --> 00:57:09,719
a woman on the Sistine's chapel. There's an old white

1154
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:13,280
dude with a beard, and that's what everyone is holding

1155
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:19,320
on to. And also Charlton Heston is Moses. But that's

1156
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:23,199
just the images that you' It's stuck with us throughout

1157
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:26,599
history because of that. That's why Santa Claus looks the

1158
00:57:26,599 --> 00:57:29,639
way Santa Claus does. But Santa Claus, Saint Nick never

1159
00:57:29,679 --> 00:57:32,880
looked like Saint Nicholas, never looked like the Coca Cola

1160
00:57:33,239 --> 00:57:37,639
literally the Coca Cola marketing budgets that it was created.

1161
00:57:38,119 --> 00:57:40,920
But it's really interesting. And again that's that goes back

1162
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:43,760
to what I said earlier is when you rock someone's

1163
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:49,880
foundation of their programming, it really they fight, they slash out,

1164
00:57:50,079 --> 00:57:53,519
or they comfort themselves and by whatever that couldn't this

1165
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:56,199
or that, because and that's what this show does is

1166
00:57:56,199 --> 00:58:00,719
a general statement. It challenges people's foundations so off and

1167
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:03,159
that people who are ready for it tend to listen

1168
00:58:03,199 --> 00:58:06,079
to it, and people who aren't. It's the devil's work.

1169
00:58:06,079 --> 00:58:09,599
It's the demon's work. It's funny too. Some of the

1170
00:58:09,599 --> 00:58:12,000
stuff is hilarious. I read the comments. They're genius and

1171
00:58:12,039 --> 00:58:15,880
we're really good writers. Let me ask you, what is

1172
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:18,599
the biggest takeaway you got from this in your death experience,

1173
00:58:18,599 --> 00:58:19,239
in your life.

1174
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:24,000
Speaker 2: This sounds trite, but we do take things too seriously,

1175
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:29,159
you know, and we really are. My favorite story Saint

1176
00:58:29,239 --> 00:58:31,280
John the Divine at the end of his life, he

1177
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:33,239
knew Jesus. He walked with Jesus, who was the last

1178
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:35,719
surviving disciple, actually walked the earth with Jesus and could

1179
00:58:35,719 --> 00:58:36,800
come up to him at the end of his life

1180
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:38,840
and say, what was like, you know, walking with cheese,

1181
00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:40,880
talking with cheese, shores the galleys, It wasn't really like

1182
00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:43,320
and he would only say five words to them. Have

1183
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:46,119
you ever heard this story? No matter what anybody said,

1184
00:58:46,280 --> 00:58:48,199
was like Jesus, what did he dress like? What were

1185
00:58:48,239 --> 00:58:48,679
sandals like?

1186
00:58:48,719 --> 00:58:49,360
Speaker 1: Blah blah blah, He.

1187
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:51,400
Speaker 2: Would only say five words, and the five words were

1188
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:56,559
little children love one another. And I think that's what

1189
00:58:56,599 --> 00:59:00,760
we're supposed to do. Is we're just supposed to you know.

1190
00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:04,119
It's so easy to judge. Judge comes from ego. Somebody

1191
00:59:04,159 --> 00:59:07,320
told me years ago. Ego stands for edging God out.

1192
00:59:07,719 --> 00:59:09,599
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, that's a great one.

1193
00:59:09,599 --> 00:59:11,639
Speaker 2: So I do think we are just supposed to be loving.

1194
00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:15,519
And now when I see homeless people, how you see

1195
00:59:15,519 --> 00:59:18,800
homeless people, I think, get a job. And now I

1196
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:22,679
see homeless people and sometimes I just cry, and not

1197
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:24,760
usually sometimes I talk to him. I kind of listen

1198
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:26,760
for you know, am I getting a message here? But

1199
00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:29,440
every homeless person I've talked to lost somebody to suicide.

1200
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:31,599
I'm sure that's just the angels saying, hey, hey, hey,

1201
00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:32,599
you you you you good?

1202
00:59:32,639 --> 00:59:36,400
Speaker 1: Talk to them. Yeah, yeah, you're not the only one

1203
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:38,880
like you can help somebody with what's gone through. Now,

1204
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:40,440
I'm going to ask you a few questions, ask all

1205
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:43,719
of my guests, Rose, what is your definition of living

1206
00:59:43,719 --> 00:59:44,679
a fulfilled life?

1207
00:59:45,199 --> 00:59:46,920
Speaker 2: I don't know. When my kids were little, I three girls,

1208
00:59:47,039 --> 00:59:48,639
my kids were little, when I would send them off

1209
00:59:48,679 --> 00:59:50,440
to school, I'd give him a kiss on the head

1210
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:53,760
and I'd say a prayer that God would help them

1211
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:56,960
realize their full potential. And I think that's what we're

1212
00:59:56,960 --> 00:59:59,159
all supposed to do, is realize our full potential. I'm

1213
00:59:59,199 --> 01:00:04,599
not sure the path. I think it's just listening and loving.

1214
01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:06,960
I really do think we're supposed to love love love

1215
01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:10,199
to a fault, you know, if somebody loves I just

1216
01:00:10,239 --> 01:00:13,840
read a story Fred, Oh gosh, what's his name? I

1217
01:00:13,840 --> 01:00:17,039
think his name is Fred Winter. A pastor. Fifteen years

1218
01:00:17,079 --> 01:00:19,599
ago not far from where I live, some crazy guy

1219
01:00:19,599 --> 01:00:22,880
walked into his church and shot him and killed him. Now,

1220
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:25,079
on the face of it, that seems like such a tragedy,

1221
01:00:25,199 --> 01:00:29,800
but maybe that was as a result of that There's

1222
01:00:29,840 --> 01:00:34,800
been a lot of awareness about Christianity and the problem

1223
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:38,519
mental illness and all kinds of stuff. And we say,

1224
01:00:38,519 --> 01:00:42,360
oh no, but a tragedy. But what if you know,

1225
01:00:42,519 --> 01:00:44,760
what if that's just the gig? What if that's the

1226
01:00:44,800 --> 01:00:46,800
cost of love? Is we have a few years shaved

1227
01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:50,960
off our life. I think it's better than everybody being

1228
01:00:51,119 --> 01:00:54,400
armed and chasing each other around the block with a knife.

1229
01:00:56,119 --> 01:00:58,639
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,

1230
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:03,519
and now back to the show.

1231
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:08,519
Speaker 2: I guess what I'm saying if I by loving somebody,

1232
01:01:08,599 --> 01:01:12,000
If I love somebody and my life ends what the

1233
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:16,519
world might call prematurely, I'm okay with that, you know,

1234
01:01:16,599 --> 01:01:19,280
I really am. I who's to say how long our

1235
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:20,360
life is supposed to be?

1236
01:01:21,599 --> 01:01:23,960
Speaker 1: Fair enough? If you had a chance to go back

1237
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:26,440
in time and talk to little Rose, what advice would

1238
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:27,039
you give her?

1239
01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:30,000
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, these are toughies. You should have sent

1240
01:01:30,079 --> 01:01:37,599
these in advance. Forgive yourself for not knowing what you

1241
01:01:37,639 --> 01:01:40,960
didn't know, and be kind to yourself. Be chandler with yourself.

1242
01:01:41,400 --> 01:01:47,800
Speaker 1: Amen. And how do you define God? God?

1243
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:51,840
Speaker 2: God is Love? Love is God? And also there's words?

1244
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:53,760
In the beginning was the word, and the word was

1245
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:56,559
with God, and the word was God. Logos you know,

1246
01:01:56,719 --> 01:02:00,199
word God, God, God loves words. You know you're a

1247
01:02:00,239 --> 01:02:03,440
wordsmith man. You got it going on. I think God

1248
01:02:03,519 --> 01:02:06,159
loves words. And I think the biggest thing because I've

1249
01:02:06,159 --> 01:02:09,599
been having this thing about you know, I'm aging and

1250
01:02:09,679 --> 01:02:11,000
I look in the mirror and I think I look

1251
01:02:11,039 --> 01:02:14,639
at pictures like, oh, you're so old, you're not attractive,

1252
01:02:14,639 --> 01:02:19,360
And then I think you're talking about God's creation. So

1253
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:21,719
I think we have to be real careful the words

1254
01:02:21,719 --> 01:02:26,639
we speak over ourselves. A, yes, very much. So who

1255
01:02:26,719 --> 01:02:30,039
God is the Word and words are God and words

1256
01:02:30,039 --> 01:02:30,880
are very powerful.

1257
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:34,599
Speaker 1: And finally, what is the ultimate purpose of life?

1258
01:02:36,519 --> 01:02:40,079
Speaker 2: Love? Love alone is life?

1259
01:02:40,199 --> 01:02:42,599
Speaker 1: And where can people find out more about you and

1260
01:02:42,679 --> 01:02:44,800
your book books in general?

1261
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:48,679
Speaker 2: But this book specific and the others are about old houses.

1262
01:02:48,719 --> 01:02:52,719
Who cares about that nonsense? Plus they're all out of

1263
01:02:52,719 --> 01:02:55,639
print now. My book is Remembering the Light, How Dying

1264
01:02:55,679 --> 01:02:58,960
Saved My Life, and I do talk a lot about suicide,

1265
01:02:59,639 --> 01:03:03,119
SURVI suicide. We're coming up to September, which is suicide

1266
01:03:03,119 --> 01:03:07,480
Prevention Month, which I personally eschew because every time I

1267
01:03:07,519 --> 01:03:09,519
hear about that, I think, you know, it's it's I could,

1268
01:03:09,519 --> 01:03:12,039
I would have, should have. If only i'd if only

1269
01:03:12,079 --> 01:03:13,920
I'd been there for my husband so he could talk

1270
01:03:13,960 --> 01:03:16,079
out his troubles, he'd still be alive.

1271
01:03:16,599 --> 01:03:16,880
Speaker 1: Wrong.

1272
01:03:17,719 --> 01:03:19,480
Speaker 2: There is nothing I could have done to stop this,

1273
01:03:19,559 --> 01:03:21,039
and there is nothing I could have done to make

1274
01:03:21,039 --> 01:03:23,800
it happen. I believe with teens and young people, maybe

1275
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:26,079
we have a chance. Maybe sometimes maybe we have a

1276
01:03:26,079 --> 01:03:28,400
way to talk them out of it. But once a

1277
01:03:28,440 --> 01:03:31,000
grown person sides to do this, we need to give

1278
01:03:31,039 --> 01:03:33,239
the survivors a break and say, you know what, there's

1279
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:35,320
nothing you could have done. You did everything just right.

1280
01:03:36,159 --> 01:03:39,119
My website is temporarydeath dot com because I did not

1281
01:03:39,199 --> 01:03:41,719
come near death. I did die, And you know, my

1282
01:03:41,719 --> 01:03:43,719
book is Remembering the like how Dying saved My life?

1283
01:03:44,599 --> 01:03:46,440
Speaker 1: And do you have any party messages for the audience.

1284
01:03:48,239 --> 01:03:51,679
Speaker 2: No, I'm grateful for the opportunity and if you can

1285
01:03:51,719 --> 01:03:55,960
contact me through my website. But the biggest party message

1286
01:03:56,000 --> 01:03:59,159
I would have is if you have survived the suicide

1287
01:03:59,400 --> 01:04:02,840
of somebody dearly loved. You know, it doesn't matter what

1288
01:04:02,920 --> 01:04:08,320
you had to do to survive, but you learn how

1289
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:11,800
to live around it in time, and it does get better.

1290
01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:16,440
Just I think you learn how to live around that

1291
01:04:16,639 --> 01:04:17,559
spot in your heart.

1292
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:20,880
Speaker 1: Rosemary, thank you so much for being on the show

1293
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:24,119
and sharing your amazing journey with us. And I hope

1294
01:04:24,119 --> 01:04:26,639
that this conversation helps a lot of people out there,

1295
01:04:26,639 --> 01:04:30,840
So I appreciate you, my dear, thank you, thank you

1296
01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:33,840
for spending this sacred time with us today. If you

1297
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:37,000
feel called to explore this conversation further, you'll find the

1298
01:04:37,000 --> 01:04:40,000
show notes for this episode at Next levelsoul dot com

1299
01:04:40,039 --> 01:04:43,920
forward slash three four zero, and if your soul is

1300
01:04:43,960 --> 01:04:47,280
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1301
01:04:47,679 --> 01:04:53,039
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1302
01:04:53,360 --> 01:04:58,159
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1303
01:04:58,199 --> 01:05:01,920
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1304
01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:05,280
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1305
01:05:05,320 --> 01:05:10,840
Next levelsoul dot TV until next time, Keep expanding, keep seeking,

1306
01:05:11,320 --> 01:05:14,519
and keep walking your path towards the next level of

1307
01:05:14,559 --> 01:05:15,039
your soul.