Speaker 1: Understand the thinking atheist. It's not a person, it's a symbol,
an idea.
Speaker 2: The population of atheists this country is going through the.
Speaker 1: Rule, rejecting faith, pursuing knowledge, challenging the sacred. If I
tell the truth, it's because I tell the truth, not because.
Speaker 3: I put my hand on a book and made a.
Speaker 1: Wish and working together for a more rational world.
Speaker 2: Take the risk of thinking, feel so much more happiness.
Truth Usian wisdom will come to you that way.
Speaker 1: Assume nothing, question everything, and start thinking. This is the
Thinking Atheist podcast hosted by Seth Andrews.
Speaker 2: So much talk about politics and religion. I want to
come back to just religion. Having come out of a
fundamental faith and having been co hosting on the Line
Network where we talk to a lot of theists and
they bring their proofs for God, or at the very
least they're trying to sow doubt about atheism. I think
one of my not favorite, but one of my hashtag
favorite arguments is why do you hate God or why
do you say there could be no God? Which is
not what atheism is. I'm struck by how often apologist
misrepresent what atheism means. You know, I do not believe
in God seems pretty basic, but I think it's in
the interest of a lot of apologists to do that
very thing. And over the last let's see, I started
the website in two thousand and nine. Holy shit, what
is that sixteen years? I've had a lot of these discussions.
And you know, there are some arguments for God that
make me crazy, and I know they make you crazy too,
And I want to hear the ones that make you
want to stick your head through sheet rock, the stuff
that just you're like, how could you even bring that
to the table. It's it's not that the apologist hasn't
heard it before, because I know this is fresh material
for a lot of people. And I mean the stuff
that you're like, this is not even an argument, makes
no sense, like prove there is no God, which to
me is the equivalent of prove the universe doesn't exist
in a giant snow globe which sits on the mantle
of a cosmic space octopus. Right, prove that for me?
You know, that's not exactly how proof works. You've got
the well, I'm not a monkey. My grandfather wasn't a monkey.
You know, I'm not a primate. I may be a mammal,
but I'm not an animal. I heard that when recently
I heard the story about Charles Darwin having a deathbed conversion.
Have you heard that story? Oh, Darwin wrote on the
Origin of species. Sure, but at the very end of
his life, when he knew he was facing the music,
he had a conversion. And there's a whole narrative. Somebody
came and visited him at his deathbed, and he had
kind of an epiphany, and his heart changed, and he
opened his mind and his spirit to Jesus Christ and
he became a believer. Bullshit, that never happened. It's like
that story about Einstein in the college classroom. Hang on,
let me see if I can find that this is
unplanned Einstein classroom god story. I'll bet it pops right up. Yeah,
Albert Einstein humiliates an atheist professor. Here's how the story goes,
and this has been circulating for more than twenty years.
Does evil exist? The university professor challenged his students with
this question. Did God create everything that exists? A student
bravely replied, yes, he did. God created everything. The professor asked, yes, sir,
the student replied. The professor answered, if God created everything.
Then God created evil. Since evil exists, and according to
the principle that our works define who we are, then
God is evil. The students became quiet before such an answer.
The professor was quite pleased with himself and boasted to
the students that he had proven once more that the
Christian faith was a myth. Another student raised his hand
and said, can I ask you a question? Professor? Of course,
replied the professor. The student stood up and asked, yess
or does cold exist? What kind of question is this?
Of course it exists. Have you ever been cold? The
students snickered at the young man's question. I love the
hero narrative. Right, you got the evil snickering professor and
the noble hero student. The young man replied, in fact, sir,
cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics,
what we consider cold is, in reality, the absence of heat.
Every body or object is susceptible to study when it
has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a
body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero minus
four hundred and sixty degrees fahrenheit is the total absence
of heat. All matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction
at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created
this word to describe how we feel if we have
no heat, The student continued, professor. Does darkness exist? The
professor responded, of course it does. The student replied, once again,
you are wrong, sir. Darkness does not exist either. Darkness is,
in reality, the absence of light. Light we can study,
but not darkness. In fact, we can use Newton's prism
to break white light into many colors and study the
various wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure darkness. A
simple ray of light can break into a world of
darkness and illuminated. How can you know how dark a
certain space is. You measure the amount of light present.
Isn't this correct? Darkness is a term used by man
to describe what happens when there is no light present. Finally,
the young man asked the professor, sir, does evil exist?
Now uncertain? The professor responded, of course, as I have
already said, we see it every day. It's in the
daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in
the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world.
These manifestations are nothing else but evil. To this the
student replied, evil does not exist, sir, or at least
it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the
absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold,
a word that man has created to describe the absence
of God. God did not create evil. Evil is not
like faith or love that exists, just as does light
and heat. Evil is the result of what happens when
man does not have God's love present in his art.
It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat,
or darkness that comes when there is no light. And
the professor sat down. The young student's name was Albert Einstein.
This entire story is a big pile of cramp. It
never happened, and yet it has been shared in Christian
circles for I don't know how long, and many people
who during his life his contemporaries were asserting that Albert
Einstein was somehow a Christian. He came forward and he said, no,
it's a lie what you've been hearing about my religious beliefs, right.
I think he was more of a Spinoza's God kind
of a thing. It's really more about the cosmos and science,
And he was not a Christian. And yet you know,
they want to brandish Einstein as if you know, this
is a gotcha. Well, and even if Einstein had been
a believer and a brilliant scientist, would that have proved God.
Scientist X believes in God, therefore God exists. This is
not how science works. There's the God of the gaps.
There are gaps in our knowledge. We don't know things
what happened before the Big Bang. I mean, it could
have been of specific deity with a proper name who
then had anonymous primitive men write a sixty six book
book which talked about garden nudists and talking reptiles and
nine hundred year old people and giants and sea monsters
and those types of things. One of my favorite parts
of the Bible is in the Book of Revelation, the
story about the flying dragon writing, actually it's a seven
headed dragon, writing space prostitute. Ah, yeah, horror Babylon. Totally
reasonable to say that, because we don't know even if
there was a before. I was talking to astrophysicist doctor
Dan Batcheldor about space time, which is just literally a
skull melting thing to get into, especially for lay people
like us. But if space time didn't exist, until the
moment of the singularity. Then time may not have been
a thing. There may not have been a before right,
There may not have been anything before the Big Bang.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's a lot to take in. But to say, well,
we don't know therefore, gee, it just makes me crazy. Anyway,
I want to know what your pet peeve arguments are
for the existence of a god. It can be any
god or God's plural, or spirits or ghosts or whatever.
And I know you got some. So this is the
place to vent as we just spend some time sort
of refocusing, getting a little bit more away from politics
and Christian nationalism today and getting into theology and the apologists.
I've got nine zero one on the phone. Hi. Who's this?
Speaker 4: Hi? This is Cullen. How are you doing, suth?
Speaker 2: Is it culin? Yes, sir, welcome to the show. Thanks
for calling. What's on your mind?
Speaker 4: My girlfriend she did like a theology class. There was
way after we broke up, and I just happen to
see it, and she had to post videos on YouTube
of her giving sermons, and one of the ones that
she gave was that once upon a time there was
a shepherd with the whole flock of sheep, and every
night he would bring them all back into the barn,
but there was always one that would wander off, and
day after day he had to go find that sheep
and pick it up and carry it back and put
it back in the fold. So one day he gets
tired of doing that, so yoesll and he finds the
sheep and he takes a big heavy step and he
just breaks its legs and then he carries it back
home and he fixes it up. And he did that
not to hurt the sheep, but because he loves the sheep.
And that's why God looks bad things happen to us.
And when I heard that, it took me about twenty
minutes of just sitting there outside smoking a cigarette. I
don't even smoke anymore. I just keep a practice in
face for times like that. It absolutely broke me.
Speaker 2: I think this is a slave celebrating their chains. He
only hurts me because he loves me. This is a
faith building exercise, pain in this life, bliss in the next.
The more suffering that happens for God here on Terra Firma,
the greater my reward will be in eternity. And I
also think that people are great at creating narratives where
the nonsensical makes sense to them. The tornado hit more, Oklahoma,
and forty five people were killed, including a dozen children.
Well maybe it was because Oklahoma has too many of
those icky gay people. Or maybe God is using our
light and momentary affliction to produce in us a greater
glory that far od weighs them all. This is a
faith exercise, you know. There were so many apologetics that
are supposed to excuse the inexcusable, and the more you
and I hear it, the more we think, Dear God,
these people are they're playing twister, And I'm sure you
felt that, right, You're like, how far have you just
bent to make this make sense? Right?
Speaker 4: Absolutely?
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, well I don't know how to change that mind.
This is the question of the ages. All I know
is that I share your frustration, and I myself hear
that kind of thing, and I want to put my
head through sheet rock. So you and I have we
share frustration. You and I are sitting at the bar together.
I'm drinking something non alcoholic, but I tip my glass
and I share your frustrations. My friend, Thanks for Colin Cullen.
Speaker 4: Absolutely thank you. I have a great day. You bet
him stay perfect.
Speaker 2: Well, you know it's and this gets tough. We're in
tornado season here in Oklahoma, and we've already had some
big weather and we were supposed to get a lot
more baseball sized hail, right, giant, deadly cannonballs of ice
from the sky. We've got tornadoes on the ground. We
had shingles ripped off of brooves. I saw trash cans
blowing down the road with sixty five mile an hour
wind gusts. It's just been wild, and it's you know,
it's not even May. But it's very common for people
to reach out and paint the silver lining whenever tragedy
and calamity happens. I mentioned more Oklahoma talked about them
in some various speeches where there was loss of life
and billions of dollars in property damage, and people will
put up a sign that says God bless more. Or
when they get really twisty, they find a Bible in
the ruins. Sometimes the Bible is opened and they'll locate
a verse on whatever page happened to be open, and
they're like, this verse means something. It is a reminder
that God has not abandoned us. There was a television
station in Oklahoma City where the reporter actually did a
story about a deadly tornado, and somebody found a Bible
in the debris field, and it was open to a
certain verse. I think it was out of Isaiah, some
inspirational fortune cookie. And that was the news story. Bible
found with inspirational verse in rubble. And I'm over here
like you are going, I'm sorry, hang on. The woman
who owned that bible was killed. I think it was
a grandmother. You know what I'm saying, She's dead. Sorry
about the death, Sorry about shredding a human life. Enjoy
these pieces of paper. God says, that kind of thing
makes me crazy. Some other gems on the argument's roster.
It takes more faith to be an atheist. Who's the
apologist who says this? I gotta look it up. It
takes more faith to be an atheist. He's got a
book by that title, Norman Geisler, the apologist. I think
he's dead. I think he's alive. I don't know if
there is an open Bible in his way, but I
think he's dead. I don't have to go look. I
don't have enough faith to be an atheist is the
name of his book, and this is a common thing.
It takes more faith to not believe in God. In Oklahoma,
they're going after the public schools. A lot of it
has to do. It's a riff on the teach the
controversy angle. Well, you know, intelligent design one of those
things where we need to teach both. You know, let's
teach the scientific record, let's teach evolution, let's teach cosmology
and the origins of all things according to science, and
then let's teach intelligent design, and we'll let the kids decide. Right.
That's a terrible way to approach education. It's ideology first.
It's creationism in costume is all ID really is? These
people make me crazy. Dan at eight one five, thank
you so much for calling. What's going on?
Speaker 5: Hey, Seth, appreciate you having me on you bet. Yeah,
I don't have a specific argument exactly, but it's more
of a general, you know, flow that I encounter a lot,
and you know, my interactions with theists, and it's always
the argument of personal anecdote, regardless of what it may be.
It's Oh, I prayed for my friend to be healed
from their chronic headaches than they were healed, or you know,
it's go down the line. It's really frustrating because that
seems to me, in my personal experience, to be one
of the prevailing cruxes of the issue, where they just
can't get past a personal experience of theirs that they
have deemed to be causal instead of just maybe corollary.
And so I don't know if that's something that is
the main issue when it comes to how a lot
of theists come to their conclusions, but it's certainly one
that I've experienced, and it's really frustrating. I don't know
if you've seen the I think it's Jubilee that puts
on these kind of panels where we'll have one person
sitting at a table and like twenty people around them
trying to basically rush to the center to be able
to present an argument and discuss with them.
Speaker 6: Have you seen that?
Speaker 2: No, I haven't seen it.
Speaker 5: They're interesting videos, like Alex O'Connor was on it, and
you know, he would make his various claims and then
this circle of people who disagree try and present their arguments.
But they recently and I know this particularly isn't a
religious argument, but they recently had a doctor come on
who described why vaccines are important, and he was surrounded
by twenty anti vaxxers, and every single person that came
up to make their argument about why they were against
vaccine was always about, well, I was able to, you know,
cure myself of this particular thing by just using holistic medicine.
Or this other person who was saying they know somebody
that got the vaccine and then died afterwards. It really
does seem to be a problem of correlation versus causation,
and that's really hard for people to get past.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then they see validating things, or what they
believe is validating things like the pseudo documentary died suddenly
talking about all these famous people who got the COVID vaccine,
and then they keeled over, And people who didn't do
any more digging who felt vindicated in their anti vax
stance were like, Aha, these celebrities are all dead. They
died suddenly. But if they'd done a five second Google search,
they'd realize that the people that were supposed to be
dead were actually alive and well and still doing whatever
they do without a problem. I mean, it's so frustrating, right,
confirmation bias. It's everywhere.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And the most frustrating part about it is, as
you mentioned, a lot of the time, the answers are there,
they are available, they're readily available, and they're either dismissed
or they just don't look into it enough.
Speaker 2: I remember talking to my mother when I was having
doubts going through deconstruction, and that's one of the first
arguments that she led with, you know, I had an experience.
I had a spiritual experience. Jesus appeared to me, and
I know he's real and I know he lives in
my heart. And it was kind of a take my
word for it thing where you know, if I had
told her that I'd had an experience with the snow
globe possessing cosmic space octopus, I just know it in
my heart, take my word for it, she'd lacked me
out of the room. But I'm supposed to take her
word for it. It's a total double standard. But yeah,
the anecdotal claims it's hard to know what to do
with him except maybe flip the script and say, hey,
would you take somebody else's word if they pitched a
different god ideology, political stance, fills or whatever. That's all
I know how to do.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it seems to be really the only approach you
can take.
Speaker 2: It.
Speaker 5: It's frustrating because you know a lot of times you
just end up hitting a wall where oh, well that's
not exactly the same or that's different because of X,
Y and Z, and it's yeah, there are roadblocks, But
I agree. I mean, you can't really do much when
somebody has an emotional attachment and a personal attachment to
how they come to their conclusions. I just I really
think critical thinking in general, if you just take like
religion or any specific topic out of it, I just
really think society at large has really failed to educate
its populace on how to properly think critically, and that
would solve a lot of our problems.
Speaker 2: It would solve so many of our problems. I feel you, Dan,
great calm, Thanks for being a part of the conversation today.
Speaker 5: Thanks for having me all right, see.
Speaker 2: You later, Okay, I know that you, like me, just
want to sin. But we are going to continue with
more of the worst of the worst apologetics arguments out there,
plus whatever our collars want to talk about next. The
American Atheist National Convention this coming weekend. You can still
get tickets for Minneapolis, go to Convention dot Atheists dot com.
And then the first weekend in May, I'm going to
be at the Western Canadian Reason Conference, and if you
want to get tickets for Alberta, Canada, we can reason
dot com. This week we're talking about bad apologetics, some
of the worst believer arguments that you and I have
to field every single day. I had a message from
Lance in the chat, the moral argument is one of
the worst arguments for God. Where do your morals come from?
I think this is pretty basic pro social behaviors, communal
or community thinking, collectivism in that way, ethical actions benefiting another,
creating solidarity with another, which then comes back to you,
which means you are more apt to procure resources and
survive threats. So pro social behaviors are actually a great
adaptation to pass on your genes. It makes total sense
to me evolutionarily, even if altruism doesn't truly exist. Let's say,
in the back of my mind, I'm like, well, okay,
if I benefit somebody else in some way might benefit me. Whatever,
We're still talking about moral pro social behaviors and the
idea that this stuff has to be handed down from
on high. It makes no sense to me. And then
who wrote the Ten Commandments because they're mostly a waste.
We'd run through a few more of these messages on
the chat. Frank Tuuric, thank you. He's the apologist I
was first thinking of. He says, you don't have it
takes more faith to be an atheist. And he also
says that's a common denominator among people who deconstruct out
of Christianity just want to have sex. It's all about sex,
sexual shame, and sexual sin. They want to go out
and do all these prurrian things. Well, you know, there's
a component to kicking away the shame and the quote
unquote moral restraints, but he's just trying to reduce it
to everybody wants to go out and have orgies, which
you know, I don't think that's really the driving force
behind people asking is this true case? G R seven
has asked why my webcam is so shaky? Fair question,
terrible answer. I shake my leg when I'm sitting in
a chair, drives Natalie crazy. You know that invisible baby
bouncing on the knee thing. I'm always doing it, and
I have to try to remember to Will myself out
of it. That's why the camera was shaking. We did
not have an earthquake in Oklahoma. I was sitting here
bouncing my knee like an idiot. I've done this. I
do it in movie theaters and Natalie has to nudge me.
I did it on the bleachers. We were watching one
of the grandkids play a ballgame, and I didn't realize
I was doing it, and the entire row apparently was
ding ding ding ding ding, and Natalie's like, hey, squit it,
You're bouncing the parents on the entire row. Oh sorry
about that. So anyway, I throw myself at your mercy.
Oh look, super chats and some much welcome support to
the channel. Hunter Biden's laptops says, thanks for appearing on
Secular Rising last night. This is doctor J Bundy. Hey,
doctor J. Big smart people, and I had to follow
Jay on the freaking show, right, So we've got a
PhD followed by the guy that took thirty years to
figure out that donkeys can't speak Hebrew. That's awesome, that's awesome,
Thanks for that Secular Rarity. Thank you for making me
do that. But we were hanging out in the green
room and had a great conversation and it was a
real honor. So hey, doctor j it's an honor to
be able to have you here. Craig says, Islamic apologetics
seemed to dive deep into numerology. The number nineteen seems
to be a big deal into retro predicting historical events.
I don't know that much about Islam, but I do
know there's a lot of Da Vinci code type apologists
who were always doing weird math to try to make
the nonsensical make sense. The only thing it proves to
me is that human beings are pattern seekers or pattern makers,
connecting dots, even the ones that aren't supposed to be connected.
You know what I'm saying. They're like, oh, this means something. Well,
what it means is is that we are pattern seeking primates.
That's what it means. Ben says that I have a
nervous trump twitch. Okay, Cookie Monster says, I'm just trembling
in fear of God. Bohemian Lucy has asked the question,
what is retro predicting? Oh, that's such a good question.
So what we do is somebody writes a prophecy, and
the Old and New Testament are great examples or the
Old Testament, New Testament and modern day headlines are a
great example of this. But what you often will do
is somebody who is more of a contemporary makes a
prediction or says that something has transpired rather that is
a fulfillment of prophecy. But they are already aware of
the prophecy that was made before and were able to
sort of mold or retro fit this prophetic occurrence into
the story of old or the people who write the
fulfilled prophecy had access to the old material. So the
New Testament writer has access to the Old Testament story,
and then the New Testament people say the fulfilled prophecy happened. Well,
we can't verify either one of them, but somebody was
using a cheat sheet. And again we still have vague
predictions where people are connecting dots because they want to,
and we have a ton of failed prophecies like the
prophecy of Tire and the Old Testament totally failed. Nobody
wants to talk about that one. Nobody wants to talk
about that one. You were never a true Christian to
begin with, Oh seth, Nobody, nobody who ever really knew God,
nobody who ever knew had a relationship with the risen Savior,
with Jesus Christ, would have ever walked away from him? No,
you were a counterfeit, You were an impostor. Oh you
may have thought you were a Christian, but absolutely not.
What you needed was a true and authentic encounter, and
then you would still be a believer. How dare somebody
else tell me what's going on in my own mind
and heart? If Dan Barker, who was a preacher for
a lot of years and he's co president of the
Freedom from Religion Foundation, he likes to say, if I
wasn't a true Christian, nobody was. And I feel the
same way. I was all in true blue Bible believing
Bible literalist Christian and so to have some third party
sitting in the cheap seats looking at me going, ah,
you didn't do it, you weren't there, I'm like, you
have no idea what you're talking about. You didn't see
me when I was just a kid walking up the
aisle at Eastwood Baptist Church almost crying because the Revival
preacher had rattled my cage. I wanted to go to Heaven.
I sure didn't want to go to hell. So I
went forward and I pleaded with all my heart, Dear Jesus,
save me and take me to heaven. I mean, I
couldn't have been more sincere. And then after that, I
was so insecure about getting it wrong or losing my
salvation and going to hell. That's all the time I
continued to restate the salvation prayer, Dear Jesus, please save me,
cleanse my heart. I know I'm a sinner, Please I
you know, please rescue me, you know, make me a Christian,
over and over and over and over and over again.
So I followed the instructions in the New Testament. If
you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and
believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead,
you will be saved. I qualify. If anybody qualifies, totally
irritates me, or what's another one. You took this verse
out of context, usually in the context of slavery. Discussions
of slavery, well, you know it. It was a different time,
so the owning of other human beings and the beating
of people who were enslaves or they were indentured servants,
so they were just paying off a debt. When somebody
beat them with a stick and made them unconscious for
two days, and then kept them for the master's entire
life until the slave died, and the offspring of the
slave got to be slaves themselves, on and on through
the generation. So oh, yeah, that's indentured servitude. You know
I'm saying. You know, that's sorry. Weird verses are metaphor
or parable, conveniently literal verses that might align in some
way with the his historical record. Well, those happened. Everything
else is allegory or it's a moral lesson Jesus Christ,
if you'll pardon the expression. Bob said, I just didn't
read it with the correct spirit, right, which is another
apologetic Well you need to get saved. Well, this doesn't
make any sense to me. Well, you have to have
the Holy Spirit to be able to properly discern God's message.
Well when do I get that? Well, you get the
Holy Spirit when you get saved. Wait a minute, if
I'm not saved, how do I get the Holy Spirit
to get saved so I can have the Holy Spirit?
This makes no sense. Four three four calling out of
Kansas City, Thanks for waiting, are you there?
Speaker 7: Yes, sir, Hey, how you doing today?
Speaker 2: Excellent. Let's talk. We're venting frustrations about bad apologetics. What's
on your mind?
Speaker 7: First off, seth, I apologize. I have a bit of
a speech impediment. I wanted to say I was the
guy who posted on your Thomas Jefferson's speech that got
the most likes talking about your fire being mixed with
compassion and empathy for others.
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you, Yeah, no problem.
Speaker 7: You really helped in my deconversion. In your level of
empathy that you show and even some of your satires
just wonderful. The reason I called in it wasn't that
I'm from Kansas City, but I wanted to talk about
the Kansas City Capital protest this last weekend. And I
don't know if you're aware of it. There was a
protest by the Satanic Grotto. Basically, Michael Stewart, the head
of the grotto, saw an anti abortion protest in the Capitol,
decided he wanted to do one. They got the permits
to do it in the Capitol, and the last minute
the governor basically pulled it and said they could do
it outside. They decided to do it outside and you
can see video of it on YouTube and stuff like that.
The part of it that bothered me was and they
got too because they said they had a consecrated host
to all this kind of stuff. But the part that
bothered me is I had a twenty year career in
law enforcement. At one point, when he went to desecrate
the Eucharist, a Catholic basically dived on it and shoved
at his mouth, and the police were very slow to
react when he went in the capital.
Speaker 4: He walked in the capital as he said he would do. Basically,
they allowed.
Speaker 7: A gentleman to assault him twice, and then finally when
he hit the guy back, they intervene tackled him and
you can watch it on the video. The other guy
just walks off casually. And from what I understand, several
people were arrested about it, but they had thousands and
thousands of Catholics basically protesting thirty people. And I just
wanted to get your thoughts and feelings on that, Like,
do you feel nowadays that the freedom of beach is
going to be contorted or twisted?
Speaker 2: Yes? I think it is right now. I think we
are seeing the shutdown of Freezepe Beach.
Speaker 7: Unfortunately I don't live in Kansas City. We wanted to
talk about Kansas City, but where I live would make
Oklahoma look secular. And if you ever want to know,
I can.
Speaker 3: Reach out to you.
Speaker 7: But where I live, I was a next door neighbor
of probably one of the largest pastors in history, And
basically I live in the buckle of the belt, and so.
Speaker 4: I get the idea of ideas.
Speaker 7: Being so scary around here. I mean it's I'm a
closet atheist. I can't come out in the environment I'm
in because this town is we have more churches than restaurants.
Speaker 2: You can throw a rock here, and it's always say
we have two things in abundance, tornadoes and churches, and
the tornadoes are easier to escape. So you probably feel
a little bit like that you're surrounded right.
Speaker 7: There is like literally no protest around here because you
will be shut down immediately. They don't care about free
speech around here pretty much. So it's just that because
I feel like more so now people are withdrawing into
closets because they don't want to talk about their political
ideology or the religious ideology or the correlation between the two.
Like you, I grew up in an extremely fundamentalist environment.
Trust me, I have the scars to prove it. But
I know what religious fundamentalism is, and I'm seeing what
they prophesize at the end times. And you have people
that are really trying to push for that right now,
the idea of unifying Israel because it's biblical, bringing the
Jews back. You have this entire faith office in the
West Wing now with wonderful Paula White leading the charge,
and I feel like a lot of people are very scared.
I know some of the people around here that are
closet atheists are scared about what that means. You know,
you definitely don't want to come out now.
Speaker 2: Is there like an argument that many believers make along
the thinking of the show? Is there anything that you
have heard that just makes you Oh?
Speaker 4: No, absolutely.
Speaker 7: I get all of the normal apologetics. In fact, I
graduated from a Christian university and I took course work
on apologetics. But it's you taking it out of context. Well,
what he's trying to say here is blank, you think
you're smarter than God. Just a lot of stuff like that,
And it's a lot of the priests suppositional Oh well
you think you're smarter than God? Oh you just want
to denounce him, and around here that is a conversation
that could potentially lead to physical problems, just because around here,
I've seen people involved in fistfights over religion, just in
the town I live, and it feels like it's getting worse.
A lot of these Christians feel more empowered.
Speaker 2: And they see to be invoking almost the Old Testament
God theirs isn't that Jesus loves the little children God.
It's the Yahweh's going to jack you up God. That's
the one they seem to be really into these days.
It's scary times. I don't know. I've been having this conversation.
How do we correct it all without violence? I don't
want violence. I don't condone violence, but I wonder at
some point. I mean, I was watching the Alex Garland
film Civil War the other day and I thought, this
is like contemporary. I could project modern headlines onto what's
happening here. And I think it was directed and produced
that way so that it's sort of evergreen. Whatever factions
are going head to head, whatever splintering of a nation
might be taking place, you can say, oh, yeah, this
is relevant. And I thought, you know what happens, and
I fear. It's just a matter of time. There's going
to be bombs and fires and bullets and fists the street,
and I'm scared.
Speaker 4: I think that you have the right idea.
Speaker 7: Sometimes what brings me peace is listening to you guys
and knowing there's community out there, and especially from you
said you come from a place of empathy. You understand
you went through the Satanic panic with us. You know
you you live these experiences, and I think knowing that
others out there are like minded gives some result, at
least know to me, how about you?
Speaker 2: I just feel like I'm not providing anything except I mean,
how many times have people called and they're like, what
do we do? I feel overwhelmed, everything's going crazy and
I sit here blankly and go, yeah, you're right. I
don't have any solutions. I feel like an idiot. I
feel kind of powerless. But I do want to be
an encourager, and I am activating. In fact, talking about
an event that has been going on nationwide. I actually
I'll talk about it here in a second. But I
had an activism poster for a live demonstration printed up,
so I mean I have been public, but I don't
know what to do. Is it lip service or does
it make a difference. I think I'm in the same
boat as everybody else. Maybe there's some therapy in that
you are not alone angle, but that's all I know.
Speaker 7: Well. I think individually we don't have much of a voice.
But I think if we remember that there are other
people out there sometimes that can give us the encouragement
to hold on to our beliefs. It's very easy in
an environment like you and I live, where you have
to talk to talk, and I like you can speak fundamentalism.
I mean, you want to hear an altar call. I
can do a great one, but I don't know what
the answer is, And I like you am a big
pacifist despite previous careers in my life, I detest violence.
I think that the way that we arging to win
is or not really win, but just bide our time
and try to like you're doing right now, find ways
that we can resist passively. But let the world know
that we're out there.
Speaker 4: There are people that are.
Speaker 7: You know, they look at you around here.
Speaker 4: Like you're a freak.
Speaker 7: I have told a few people and they just can't
believe this concept of oh wow, you're like you're dumb
or something like you're too stupid to understand. But I
think you're doing great work, Seth, and I'll let you go,
but I just wanted to say thank you.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's an honor to talk to you. I
appreciate the encouragement. I'm going to talk a little bit
about my recent more recent forms of protests, such as
they are, and maybe provide a little more encouragement that
I'm taking a cue from the comments from the New
Humanists who just gave me a great idea. So I'm
going to borrow that and take credit for it. But
thanks for calling the show, and you take care, all right.
Speaker 7: Can I say it real quick?
Speaker 4: So I had God bless your heart, and God bless you.
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you so much. We'll see it all right.
Oh yeah, we can speak the Christianese like that. I
can do it. I can recall it quickly. The New
Humanist in the comments that we got to form more
cohesive and active communities, ethical societies, oasis chapters, Satanic temple,
Sunday assemblies. There are options, and they need our support
and encouragement. Actually, this is a great point, and I'm
so glad you made it. I think we are better together.
I think we have to be unified. I think we do.
A lot of atheists hate the idea of forming groups
or acting in groups because they think it's a herd mentality.
This is horseshit. We are communal creatures. We are powerful,
more effective, stronger together. I think we have to put
aside petty differences that we might have here and there,
you know, the ancillary stuff, and I think we have
to come together and focus on big picture activism and resistance,
which is one of the reasons that many of my
co resistors are themselves religious people. They are state church
separation advocates, They are secular activists, they are moderate believers.
They are not necessarily Bible literalists. We disagree on theology,
but more importantly, we care about and love people and
want to save democracy. Am I going to make those
people my allies? Do I want to be their allies?
Damn skippy, Certain, yes I do. I also think those
of us who feel powerless have to find and support
those who are on the front lines, and this includes legally.
There are a lot of lawsuits being filed. There are
people who are policy experts who are on the front
lines making a case on a much larger stage than
you and I have an access to. So if we donate,
and I know it sounds lame, but what they do
takes fun. If we donate too, if we join organizations,
if we follow their work, if we subscribe to their
newsletters to stay informed, and if we donate to organizations
like Americans United for Separation of Church and State. American
Atheists has been doing quite a bit of work. I'm
on their board, the ACLU Secular Coalition for America Freedom
from Religion Foundation, who, by the way, is being sued
by Ryan Walters, the Oklahoma Superintendent of Public Instruction, because
they had the goal to say stop broadcasting Christian prayers
over public school intercoms. Ryan Walters thinks he's being harassed.
So now FFRF is facing a legal battle. Yeah, we
need to support them in a few bucks. Hey, it's
not lame. It does matter. I didn't mean to go
off on another trail. I was going to try to
do something other than Christian nationalism, politics and the state
of the state. Forgive me for that. Back to bad arguments,
Pascal's wager. I'd rather believe and be wrong, which is
crap because you can't force yourself to actually believe. If
you don't believe, then you're just projecting or saying you believe,
which means you're fooling God. Like God couldn't tell the
difference that I'm just playing a poker hand, so I
don't go to hell. Pascal's wager is just total crap.
How did something come from nothing? The eye is too
complex to have evolved, talk about crap. Not only are
there models revealing how the eye evolved naturally, models that
make perfect sense. We have examples of the various stages
of eyes. Now you can find like the organisms with
the very basic eye that just detect light, and then
you can see more complex eyes throughout the animal kingdom.
You can actually see in real time the progression of
the eye and how it would and could happen. There
were whole videos by scientists that take this one apart.
Apologists are like, look at the eye. I'm like, you
know what, Look at my bifocal glasses. Look at all
the people who had to go have lacic surgery. Look
at the people who have chronic degenerative eyesight and have
a hard time seeing their way across the room. Look
at that? Tell me about that, not that the eye
isn't wondrous and complex and amazing, but whoever that designer was, somebody,
somebody needs to be fired. Also, notice how many complexity
of the eye apologists wear corrective lenses. Yeah, notice that.
How are we doing? If I missed any of the
big apologetics out there? I know there's some that aren't
on my list. You can always sort of punch them
into the comments section and we'll take more eye of
your calls next. And hope you're having a fantastic day
and a great week. Despite all the insanity in the world.
This is a safe place. This is a hub, This
is family and a time for us to talk about
the things that amuse and occasionally frustrate us. This week,
it's bad apologetics. Let's talk to Sarah three three zero high.
Thanks for waiting on me. Are you there?
Speaker 3: Oh my god, Hey, it's great to talk to you.
I just wanted to say I heard the last guy talking.
I work in politics for fifteen years. I'm a political
communicator and protests work. They do they build the muscle
of resistance and they get you in your community for
bigger and better protests. So getting out there and you
advocating for that stuff is amazing because it means all
of us are going to be able to get out there.
Because we see the big people like you who have
these big followingsating for it, the more and more people
are going to be doing it.
Speaker 4: And that's that's amazing.
Speaker 2: That's good to hear. Because I'm activating with hands Off
twenty twenty five dot com, which is a hub where
people can find various protests in their own zip code
or in their own region. And I mocked up this
big sign for the protest in photoshop. I was real
proud of it. I had Trump's White House vote. It
was posted on the official White House account of him
wearing the crown, and it said something like long lived
the King, and so under the image of King Trump
posted by the White House, I put that Thomas Jefferson
quote from his letter to George Washington, where Jefferson said
I was much an enemy to monarchy before I came
to Europe. I am ten thousand times more so since
I have seen what they are. And I debated, you know,
whether or not I should put kind of a thicker
quote on a placard that I'm holding on a street
corner but I didn't want to go out and be
so snarky and sarcastic that anybody driving by or walking
by would immediately shut down and just think I was
a woke, live, evil person. I don't think they can
do as much. With a quote from one of the
founding fathers, I think that takes some of the teeth
out of them. I don't know. Do you have a
perspective on that?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting. So I'm working on this video on
why we need to rework federalism right now. And you
just hit to the point of it, right, which is
that Republicans are attempting to create essentially petty dictator shifts
with their own rules and restrictions in every state. And
that's the same thing as a kingdom just writ small.
And what the federal government is supposed to do is
protect our liberties and not reduce them into this like
Christian nationalist mindset. And we see that happening, especially in
your Oklahoma with the education stuff and with reproductive liberties everywhere. Yeah,
Thomas Jefferson is right that like this sort of rule
by the few, whether it's a king or a preacher,
is unfit for an American democracy.
Speaker 2: Oh, you're good. Any other advice for us as far
as what to do and where to do it, because
I think that's the one thing we're waiting for, the
flash point. We're waiting for the rallying flag. We want
to do something, but we don't know where to be effective,
and people feel helpless and sometimes give up any thoughts there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I originally come from like a very middle
class town in central Ohio, and I was triving to
see my parents. I saw like ten people out on
the corner of our city hall protesting Trump. Never seen
that before in my life. You protest with your small
group of people in your community, build those structures of
support in places they've never been before, and that builds
your muscles. So when the big action comes, and the
thing that the United States is kind of bad at
is getting to the mass mobilization. So that is the
goal that everyone should be working for, is like a
mass day of strike or just a mass day of
protest or whatever if it happened on like a Saturday
or something, so that everybody gets out there and is
ready to do it in their town because it has
to be seen everywhere. It can't just be in DC
and in Central Park.
Speaker 2: Good stuff. Thanks for offering that up wheelchew on it
and do something with it. Appreciate you so.
Speaker 3: Much, Thank you, thank you for what you do.
Speaker 4: You're amazing.
Speaker 2: Oh, thanks so much. Take it easy, We'll see you.
Let's see that website that I was talking about is
handsoff twenty twenty five dot com in the comments if
you are aware of I know there's is it fifty
fifty one and it's the words fifty to fifty one
dot com? Is that right? They're another hub where people
can find and either participate in or organize their own
protest and go public. I think the more and more
and more people are being visible. Once again, we have
spun from apologetic arguments that drive is crazy. Then we're
talking about the culture, politics, Trump Project twenty twenty and
the end of all things, the decline of Western civilization.
I guess this is just so on everybody's mind. We're
going to gravitate back to that. I'll let you decide
if that's what you want to talk about. It's true
because the Bible says so using the book to prove
the book that's always a joy. Have you heard this one?
All religions deserve respect. Why can't you respect religion? And
I always respond that I think when possible, people should
get respect, But ideas have to earn it, don't they.
Somebody walks in and they have a claim that we
automatically say, well, that claim is deeply held, that's a
sacred belief to one person. Therefore what that belief gets deference?
That's crazy. I saw somebody post this one. Oh, look,
they think they found Noah's Ark again. This was just
two or three weeks ago. I posted it on the
Thinking Atheists Facebook page. I'm like, how many times are
they going to discovered Noah's Ark and then realize it's
a mound of freaking dirt. Look, it's a little overlooking thing.
Therefore it is an arc. It is the arc of Genesis.
There are no atheists in Foxholes. You have not been
listening to this show, as we have. Members of the
military call quite often and they talk about what it's
like to be an atheist in the armed forces, often
deployed in combat. What about the longevity argument. If it's
not true, how come it's the most popular religion on
the planet two thousand years later?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 2: If it's not true, why has it been around for
thousands upon thousands of years. Of course it's true, or
it wouldn't have stuck. Are you kidding? Or look at it?
Can two billion people be wrong? And of course our
answer is yes, you know, yeah, I'm sorry. Mass delusion
is delusion, isn't it? I did just I don't know.
That's just me. Let's see, is it? Emily at six
six zero high? Are you there?
Speaker 1: Hello?
Speaker 2: Hi a Emily, welcome. We're talking apologetics, arguments that make
us crazy? Is that what you want to talk about?
Speaker 6: Yeah? When you brought up the Passcales wager earlier, it
made me think it was an argument my grandma actually
pretty us. It gives me once it's similar to the
past those wagers, except she admitted She's like, oh, I
understand that I may be wrong and go to hell,
but I would rather die trying. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2: How sad? Is that kind of a life? You are
pledging at least an outward allegiance to the one who
might burn you in a furnace, and that's kind of
the place she's stuck with.
Speaker 6: Huh Yeah, I think so. I mean this was several
years ago, so like I maybe misremembering, but Yeah, that's
how I remember. It almost felt like she was gambling.
Speaker 2: Oh, it is gambling. It's very much not a statement
of conviction. It's hedging your bets. And I think the
lack of conviction in that position essentially it's self interest.
So it's very sad to hear, but it does sound accurate.
So anything else.
Speaker 1: Oh, not off?
Speaker 6: Ten, I don't. I really appreciate you taking my call,
and I appreciate all the work you do.
Speaker 2: And no, it's a joy to speak to you. You
keep on keeping on and call the show again sometime. Okay, okay,
Ignore the Old Testament and focus on the New Testament.
Have you heard that one? I'm sorry? Did you just
write off more than half of the bottom. Did you
just like a machete and go shunk? Ignore that? Ignore
the Old Testament, which means what now? The Adam and
Eves story's gone. Ten Commandments are gone, the exodus from Egypt,
all that's gone, The walls of Jericha, all that stuff's gone.
Speaker 4: Eh.
Speaker 2: Whatever, it's shunk or Jesus came and undid the Old Testament,
which means they haven't read the Book of Matthew, where
God actually Jesus guarantees that all the law will be fulfilled,
you know, including in the Old Testament. It's crazy. There
was another comment. Let's see evil atheist said in the comment,
so if people wouldn't die for a lie, you all
better become Muslims real fast. Well to die for a
lie comment we heard with Mel Gibson on the Joe
Rogan podcast. He made the claim people don't die for
a lie, meaning that the apostles who were killed for
their faith, they wouldn't have died if it wasn't true.
There was so much wrong with that statement. Was I
on this show or a different show where I was
talking about the Heaven's Gate cult? All right, they put
on the purple tennis shoes or whatever, and they drank
poison so they could rendezvous with the comet. Well, they
were convinced they were sincere. Did they die for a lie?
Jim Jones's followers, nine hundred people dead in the field.
Did they die for a lie? Yeah, they kind of did. Right.
This idea that somebody is willing to and to the
Muslim faith, to Islamic extremism, the jihadists who are willing
to blow themselves and everybody else up to achieve paradise
and the virgins and everything else. Did they die for
a lie? Yeah, they kind of did. Let's talk to
Steve nine to seven zero. Welcome, thanks for calling.
Speaker 8: What's up, hey, SEFs, great to be on your show.
I wanted to make one comment about the stupid thing
that theists say to defend their religion. And I get
into these discussions with Jehovah's witnesses occasionally and they always
end up saying, well, you know, they can't answer the question,
but you'll find out. You'll find out when you die,
you know, which I think is ridiculous.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just wait till you're dad. Yeah, that's awesome, that's awesome.
Speaker 8: Yeah. The other thing I wanted to comment on and
our political situation. I'm seventy one years old, so I
was ten years old when JFK was assassinated. And even
though I was ten years old, I remember thinking, wow,
you know, they can just somebody can come along and
kill the president, and you know, then our whole political
system goes into chaos. And then they assassinated his brother,
and then they killed Martin Luther King, and so we've
been living through, you know, some really bad stuff. So
it seems like what Trump is doing and Elon is
doing actually doesn't seem so bad after what we've been through.
This is a good thing in a way that it's
a wake up call. People are going to start saying,
wait a minute, you know whoa you know, maybe we
should start paying attention. And I think it's going to
create a lot more activism.
Speaker 2: And you are saying that we haven't had presidential assassinations
and like the Martin Luther King tragedy, et cetera, the
murder of the civil rights activists, we haven't gotten to
that point where again there was gunfire and blood and
murder in the streets of these people. So given where
we are, this is a zeitgeist changing point where the
resistance rises, and we should see it as a good thing.
I don't know, A might hear in that rhyin state, Well,
I don't necessarily think it's a good thing, but I
do think it's a point of you know, if you
look at history and you see any violent revolutions that
have occurred, it's usually only when things get so bad
that people just can't do anything else. But you know,
get out on out in the streets and we may
be again at that point. Like like I said, they
refer back to the nineteen sixties when they had the
riots and the streets and there was you know, it
had gotten so bad that people, you know, the protests
of Vietnam War, for example. So it's just all happening again,
and maybe we finally will get to a point where,
you know, we can fix a lot of the problems
in the government that.
Speaker 8: You know. And that's what I'm saying. I think this
is going to be a good thing, and that it
brings out the awareness that we haven't had for so long.
Speaker 2: I wish I shared your optimism as I watched the
deportations and the shutdowns of governments, offices, protective measures, judges
under fire, the alienation of the United States against its
allies who have supported us over the centuries. I wish
I had your optimism. But maybe maybe there will be
a correction and maybe we'll survive it. All I know
is to keep activisting out there. Steve, So thanks for
calling the show. I appreciate it. Yeah, thank you, all right,
We'll see you later. How many people have heard Hitler
invoked by apologists? I probably jacked up my own algorithm.
I have noticed that whenever we talk about sensitive things
like this. I don't think I'm being paranoid or a
conspiracy theorist, but I have noticed whenever we talk about
sensitive stuff that those shows get less exposure on YouTube.
I've noticed that. I can't help but wonder if they're
being scanned for hot button terms and then AI or
whatever is knocking them down lower as far as the
exposure pool to potential listeners and viewers. But I'm going
to I mean, I don't know how to say Hitler
without saying Hitler. And one of the arguments is Hitler
was an atheist, meaning they have aligned non belief in
gods with one of the greatest tyrants, if not the
greatest tyrant and mass murderer of the twentieth century. And
I know it's a strong field, but you know, we
hear a lot of this Stalin was an atheist, and
I think, actually you need to do a little homework,
especially on I think Stalin may have been a non believer,
But you know, Hitler invoked God all the time. He
wrote about God and God's mission. You know, he believed
he was doing God's god work. He wrote about it
in mindcomft. He preached about it and screamed about it
from podiums in front of tens and tens and tens
of thousands of people. And he had alignments and allegiances
with the Catholic Church and blah blah blah. And of
course when I say that, the apologists say, well, he
wasn't really a true Christian. He was just politically aligning
with powerful organizations to be able to achieve his end goal.
Isn't that a convenient little excuse? You say? Okay, so
if they do good, they're a real Christian, and if
they do evil, then they're not a Christian. I've been
told that I just want to play God myself. The
reason you, arrogant, arrogant man, The only reason that you've
rejected God is because you wish to take God's place.
I've been told that Christianity is not a religion, it's
a relationship, and so I've got it all wrong. Well,
of course I gave up religion. I'm not religion. I
have a relationship with Jesus Christ. I guess which speaks
to the personal experience and the anecdote angle that many
people use. I've got a web call from Mike. Mike,
are you there.
Speaker 9: Hey, can you hear we?
Speaker 2: Okay, I can. Indeed, let's talk what's on your mind.
Speaker 9: Well, I'm not from the US. I'm from Europe. I'm
from Holland, as you might say. And I might have
an interesting perspective for you guys, because around my parts
there's not really a hub of religion as you might call, like,
we don't have something like the Bible belt, right. So
I was brought up atheists. My friends were brought up atheists.
I think the thing that you pointed out earlier is
that religion and upbringing is so closely tied together that
since I was brought up in that environment of non religion,
that I cannot really relate to a p or a
group of persons that is so intensely religious that they
cannot see my point of view. So I'm wondering is
there a possibility of having arguments with each other at all?
Speaker 2: I know that many people, especially here in this highly
religious United States or highly religious pockets of United States,
and they're big pockets. They are sincere believers living in
an alternate reality. And I think at some point, when possible,
we do have to have the hard discussions about what's
true what's not, what's been proven, what's moral, and what's not.
And I know in more secular countries they look at
us and wonder what in the hell is going on here?
But I think you know there can What was it
Christopher Hitchin said something like there can be no progress
without confrontation, and I think we are now at a
confrontation point in our history, and that's what we must
be doing and focusing on. Okay, Mike, I guess so,
all right, thanks for that perspective. I appreciate the call
very much. Take care of yourself. We'll see you later.
Of said, many Founding fathers were Christian, yet they still
knew the importance of separation and church of church and state.
What are great points? I made this point as well
in his speech I released a few weeks ago called
Jefferson's Jesus, and we talk about First of all, it's
irrelevant whether or not the founders had a personal faith.
Some may have believed in God, some were deists, some
like Jesus as a philosopher, some may have believed in
a divine Jesus. But when it came to the founding
and the structure of the United States, they purposefully left
God out of the constitution. People are like, we're a
Christian nation. Why because God's on the money? Uh huh,
where'd that come from? God's in the pledge?
Speaker 4: Uh huh?
Speaker 2: Where'd that come from? And you know this idea that
because somebody printed it somewhere, it's there. Okay, Well, where's
God printed in the United States Constitution, the governing document
of the entire country. Uh uh? And then their head
pops off and you see a spring kind of hanging
out of the neck, like, I'm sorry, show me one
mention of God, show me the word God anywhere in
the United States Constitution. There's the nd argument near death experience.
I was on my deathbed. My heart stopped for a second.
I floated above my body, or I saw a white
light and there was Grandma, and then Jesus was behind Grandma,
and then God was behind Jesus who was behind Grandma.
And it was a big It was like a big chain.
Everybody reached out their hand. And so therefore I know,
of course you and I are listening to the stories
about the brain deprived of oxygen and we're thinking hypoxia.
We're not thinking that heaven is real. Why Are you
stealing my joy? Why do you have to be such
a pain about now? You know, I'm sorry. Don't ever
let those people call us snowflakes. And the biggest freaking
Ryan Walters is the biggest freaking snowflake on the planet.
For somebody who doesn't believe in God, you seem obsessed.
You talk about God all the time. I think this
is self conscious and I'm like, you know, why do
cancer survivors or people who want to promote public health
talk about cancer so much? Do they worship cancer? Do
they believe in cancer? Do they love cancer? Are they
in denial about cancer? Is this a self conscious, sinful
approach to cancer? No, you acknowledge that it's doing harm
and you want to see the harm stopped?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 2: Why do you talk about God all the time? If
I don't believe in God? Is such a bad argument?
I guess the final apologetic that I hear that makes
me crazy is you may not believe in God, but
he believes in you. That's I think that that's awesome.
How to say on thing without saying anything at all.
You may not believe in Jesus, but he believes in you. Oh,
thank you for that. Thank you for that nugget of wisdom.
Can I get an amen? Thanks for joining me for
the broadcast. Keep on keeping on. I'm going to go
and find the next protest that is going on right now.
My main hub is Hands Off twenty twenty five. But
if you've got some out there, put them in the
comments and we'll find rally points. Together, we can go
out and protest the injustice, stand for what is rights,
and make a difference. Be safe, I'll see you later.
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