WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Four nations face off Thomas Douay close tomorrow in Boston.

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<v Speaker 1>Our next guest joins us on a weekly basis to

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<v Speaker 1>talk Hockey Talk NHL, Neil Smith on a Wednesday afternoon.

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<v Speaker 2>Neil, Happy Wednesday, sir, how are you very good?

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<v Speaker 3>Thanks Spence, how about you. I've had a little bit

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<v Speaker 3>of a break here from the NHL, so that's that's

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<v Speaker 3>been nice to get to watch some great hockey, though

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<v Speaker 3>with the poor nations.

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<v Speaker 1>So Neil, if memory serves initially you were not too

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<v Speaker 1>thrilled at the prospect of what this tournament could bring us,

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<v Speaker 1>is that is that fair to say?

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<v Speaker 3>Absolutely fair, because I just saw it as a, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>an NHL tournament that was sort of being positioned as

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<v Speaker 3>a national you know, somehow had national pride in it.

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<v Speaker 3>But the players played so hard in this thing. I

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<v Speaker 3>didn't expect them to play as hard as they played

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<v Speaker 3>as they were playing. I still know that it's not

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<v Speaker 3>a truly country representative tournament because you have to play

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<v Speaker 3>in the NAH to be able to be in the tournament.

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<v Speaker 3>And having said that, I've never seen NHL players play

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<v Speaker 3>even close to this in an All Star game, which

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<v Speaker 3>is what this took The place of so anything that

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<v Speaker 3>can bring great hockey in place of the All Star Game,

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<v Speaker 3>which is bad hockey, I'm all for.

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<v Speaker 1>So, Neil, educate us a little bit on the US

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<v Speaker 1>Canada rivalry in hockey. Now, for a long long time,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to give you the space here because I'm

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<v Speaker 1>not the expert you are, But for a long long

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<v Speaker 1>time it was like Canada and Russia because the US

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't necessarily a hockey country that could rival those two.

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<v Speaker 1>So it feels from my perspective that the juice is

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<v Speaker 1>kind of upped over the past I should say, the

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<v Speaker 1>last twenty years, twenty five years or so. But obviously

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<v Speaker 1>these are two teams and two teams representing two countries

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<v Speaker 1>that have a healthy amount of sports eight for each other.

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<v Speaker 1>So educate us, Educate us a little bit on this

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<v Speaker 1>rivalry and why it's so intense.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, Spence, it actually took. It actually started forty five

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<v Speaker 3>years ago when the nineteen eighty Miracle team won the

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<v Speaker 3>gold medal at Lake Placid, the American team, and that

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<v Speaker 3>inspired a lot of young Americans to want to play hockey,

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<v Speaker 3>and then along came in the eighties after that, Wayne

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<v Speaker 3>Gretzky gets traded to the La Kings from Edmonton, and

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<v Speaker 3>all of a sudden, la now has a superstar, generational,

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<v Speaker 3>unbelievable talent like Wayne Gretzky and all the celebrities, and

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<v Speaker 3>everybody wants to go and start going to the La

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<v Speaker 3>form and seeing the La Kings play. And then you know,

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<v Speaker 3>along comes Disney who puts a team in Anaheim. And

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<v Speaker 3>then along, you know, there's a team that gets put

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<v Speaker 3>in San Jose by the Guns. They put that team

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<v Speaker 3>and then they started off in the Cow Palace in

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<v Speaker 3>San Francisco and then went up to Santose. So hockey

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<v Speaker 3>was moving into non traditional places. A little while later Phoenix,

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<v Speaker 3>as you and I wouldn't be talking right now had

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<v Speaker 3>there not been a Phoenix Coyotes. And then you know

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<v Speaker 3>there were other non traditional markets. Florida suddenly came in,

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<v Speaker 3>Tampa came in at the time that Ottawa got back

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<v Speaker 3>in the league, Florida came in when Anaheim came in.

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<v Speaker 3>So you had these outposts of non traditional hockey. Because

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<v Speaker 3>in the United States, the hockey players were coming in

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<v Speaker 3>the seventies primarily from Boston, New England area, and from Minnesota.

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<v Speaker 3>Maybe a little bit of Michigan. But that was about it,

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<v Speaker 3>and there was never a hockey player come out of

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<v Speaker 3>Texas or Nevada, or California or even Long Island. And

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<v Speaker 3>it's been this growth of the NHL and hockey in

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<v Speaker 3>general and the exposure that the NHL's got into so

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<v Speaker 3>many different places that I think has inspired young athletes

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<v Speaker 3>to want to become hockey players. And that's what they've done.

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<v Speaker 3>So what am I saying about Canada, Well, Canada has

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<v Speaker 3>basically stayed the same. They've been hockey crazy throughout the

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<v Speaker 3>country the whole time. It has not waned, it has

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<v Speaker 3>not gone up, it has stayed the same. How many

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<v Speaker 3>people live in Canada about thirty five million. How many

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<v Speaker 3>people live in the States three hundred and thirty million.

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<v Speaker 3>So if you start to get the United States passionate

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<v Speaker 3>about hockey, it won't be long before the United States

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<v Speaker 3>is going to catch up to a country that's a

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<v Speaker 3>tenth of its size in production of hockey players. And

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<v Speaker 3>I really believe that's what's happened. They've caught up. They're

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<v Speaker 3>producing a volume of really talented hockey players that matches Canada.

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<v Speaker 3>So the that Canada used to have because it was

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<v Speaker 3>every kid playing on a rink in the winter is

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<v Speaker 3>now competed. Is very competitive by the United States, who

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<v Speaker 3>has even though they don't have the percentage of young

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<v Speaker 3>athletes picking hockey, just the smaller percentage of American young

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<v Speaker 3>athletes picking hockey probably equals what they have in Canada.

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<v Speaker 3>So this is why the rivalry has gotten and gotten

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<v Speaker 3>more intense. It was for a long time that Canada

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<v Speaker 3>would always beat the United States, and then in the

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<v Speaker 3>nineties in the World Cup in nineteen ninety six, United

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<v Speaker 3>States won that against Canada, and that was quite a

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<v Speaker 3>thing for the United States again inspiring young people to play,

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<v Speaker 3>showing that they can be competitive and beat Canada. And

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<v Speaker 3>then it's just grown from there. So that's the rivalry.

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<v Speaker 3>Then you've got the just the natural North American rivalry

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<v Speaker 3>of the countries of Canada and the United States. You know,

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<v Speaker 3>Canada is the little guy looking at the big you know,

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<v Speaker 3>the elephant down below saying, you know the look, this

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<v Speaker 3>is the superpower of the world. You know, the number

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<v Speaker 3>one richest nation in the world. Canada is pretty well off.

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<v Speaker 3>But you know, Canada is dwarfed by the United States,

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<v Speaker 3>of course, and there is a rivalry there everybody speaks

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<v Speaker 3>the same language, everybody. They've got a common border that's

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<v Speaker 3>not hard to get across if to go and play

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<v Speaker 3>sports against each other. And I think it's natural that,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, Americans want to be Canadians and Canadians really

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<v Speaker 3>want to beat Americans because they want to have one

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<v Speaker 3>thing that they're better than the United States. So that's

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<v Speaker 3>that's a long way of giving you the history of

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<v Speaker 3>it and where it is today.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, we had a pretty unique experience out this

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<v Speaker 1>way in two thousand and two with the Winter Olympic

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<v Speaker 1>Games being held in Salt Lake, and I can remember

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<v Speaker 1>watching the Canada US gold medal game. Canada won that

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<v Speaker 1>one five to two, and so I think a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of people out this way got a little bit of

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<v Speaker 1>a taste of that rivalry. But does it feel now?

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<v Speaker 1>And maybe I'm being a prisoner of the moment, because

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<v Speaker 1>I've gotta say, Neil, I was pretty excited to watch

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<v Speaker 1>US Canada on Saturday night. I did not think I

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<v Speaker 1>was going to watch a game that had three fights

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<v Speaker 1>in the first nine seconds, and I did not think

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<v Speaker 1>I was going to be watching a game that would

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<v Speaker 1>lead to the Americans winning on Canadian soil. In Montreal,

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<v Speaker 1>and so I'm not trying to be a prisoner of

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<v Speaker 1>the moment, But does it feel like this current iteration

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<v Speaker 1>has taken another level of intensity or was that just

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<v Speaker 1>a moment in time on Saturday night.

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<v Speaker 3>No, I don't think it was a moment in time

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<v Speaker 3>on Saturday night. I don't at all. I think that

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<v Speaker 3>there's I don't like those fights to the beginning of

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<v Speaker 3>the game because two of them with the Kochuck brothers

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<v Speaker 3>were stage fights, and and what I mean by that

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<v Speaker 3>is there was no reason for them. There's no anger,

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<v Speaker 3>nobody had done anything, and all of a sudden, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>these four guys all decided they're going to fight. The

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<v Speaker 3>other fight between JT. Miller and Perreco, that was some

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<v Speaker 3>pushing and shoving and some you know, some things were

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<v Speaker 3>said and some some some back and forth that led

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<v Speaker 3>to that one. So that one, you know, I'm okay with.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't think it's a moment in time. I think

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<v Speaker 3>that the United States is very competitive with Canada, and

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<v Speaker 3>I don't think that the United States has taken over

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<v Speaker 3>Canada yet. And I don't think no matter who wins

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<v Speaker 3>tomorrow night, that that necessarily means that you know, if

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<v Speaker 3>Canada wins, in Canada is still the powerhouse of the world.

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<v Speaker 3>And if United States wins, well, there's got to be

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<v Speaker 3>a past the torch. I don't believe that. I think

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<v Speaker 3>we're in a time right now in twenty twenty five,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, and let's say twenty twenty to twenty thirty,

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<v Speaker 3>that these teams are really closely balanced. They're close to

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<v Speaker 3>each other, the countries are close in being able to

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<v Speaker 3>put out competitive teams. I do think they'll come a

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<v Speaker 3>day and I don't forget I'm born Canadian, that the

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<v Speaker 3>United States will be able to have a stronger production

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<v Speaker 3>of star players than Canada, simply based upon the fact

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<v Speaker 3>that the population is so much bigger and so many

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<v Speaker 3>more kids are going to be interested in playing.

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<v Speaker 1>So I want to follow up on something you referenced,

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<v Speaker 1>and you did explain why you called these fights staged,

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<v Speaker 1>but this kind of took another level, as Matthew Kochok

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<v Speaker 1>and Brandon Hagell, who fought I believe that was the

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<v Speaker 1>first five of the Knights, have kind of James barbs

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<v Speaker 1>back and forth over the past couple of days, and

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<v Speaker 1>Hagel said it was quote done what he did as

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<v Speaker 1>far as the fight goes, was for the flag and

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<v Speaker 1>not the cameras. And then he continued, he said, quote,

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<v Speaker 1>we don't need to initiate anything. We don't have any

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<v Speaker 1>group chats going on what's going on out there, playing

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<v Speaker 1>our game and giving it everything and doing it for

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<v Speaker 1>our country. We just want to play as hard as

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<v Speaker 1>we can and do it for the flag on the chest.

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<v Speaker 1>This is clearly a shot at what you said, right,

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<v Speaker 1>He's clearly taking a shot at the Kachuck brothers and JT.

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<v Speaker 1>Miller for pre planning these fights. Tell me, is it

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<v Speaker 1>like an unwritten rule? Is it a code in hockey

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<v Speaker 1>where that's just not the way you go about your

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<v Speaker 1>business of pre planning these fights.

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<v Speaker 3>No, I don't want to say that. I mean, this

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<v Speaker 3>does happen when you know somebody wants to send a

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<v Speaker 3>message right away that you know what, we're not going

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<v Speaker 3>to back down from you guys. And I think the

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<v Speaker 3>Kachucks were the ones that instigated those. I maybe I

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<v Speaker 3>wasn't on the ice. I didn't hear the language going

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<v Speaker 3>back and forth. What's really amazing about those two things,

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<v Speaker 3>if you think about it, is, first of all, it's

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<v Speaker 3>Matthew Kittchuck and Hegel. Hegel plays for Campa Bay Lightning,

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<v Speaker 3>Matthew plays for Florida Panthers. There's a little bit of

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<v Speaker 3>a rivalry right there. And then you get Brady Kitchuck,

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<v Speaker 3>who's the captain of the Ottawa Senators ninety miles from

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<v Speaker 3>where that building he was in in Montreal and the

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<v Speaker 3>rival of the Montreal Canadians, and he fights his brother's teammate,

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<v Speaker 3>Sam Bennett, like I'm sure Sam Bennett and Matthew Kitchuck

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<v Speaker 3>are friends, and Brady called him on. So there was

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<v Speaker 3>an irony in those two things. But it happens more

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<v Speaker 3>in playoffs than in anything. When the playoff intensity comes,

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<v Speaker 3>sometimes you'll see real good players just say, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>call on one of the real good players on the

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<v Speaker 3>other team. I remember it happening with klotch Eru and

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<v Speaker 3>Sydney Crosby when Philadelphia gets played in the in the playoffs,

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<v Speaker 3>and you know, you can go back to two thousand

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<v Speaker 3>and five when the two captains of the Calgary Flames

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<v Speaker 3>and the Tampa Bay Lightning were in the final, and

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<v Speaker 3>it was like Vincent Lecavalier from Tampa and Jerome mcginla

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<v Speaker 3>from the Calgary Flames. They got they had a go

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<v Speaker 3>right in the final, and so this will happen from

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<v Speaker 3>time to time. But you know, and and it's it's

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<v Speaker 3>these are young guys that are that got tons of

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<v Speaker 3>testosterone and that's going ten you know, one thousand miles

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<v Speaker 3>an hour inside of them, and it just shows though

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<v Speaker 3>how badly they want to win.

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<v Speaker 2>You got to help me understand what the hell j T.

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<v Speaker 2>Miller was thinking.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, the cold and Paraco kid who he went

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<v Speaker 1>at was like twice his size. I mean, a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of the attention has been on the Kuchuk brothers and

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<v Speaker 1>what they did. But it was a little ty domish,

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't it. It looked like that was a big time

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<v Speaker 1>mismatch Neil well I did.

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<v Speaker 3>But that's J. T. Miller. He's a bit of a

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<v Speaker 3>pit bull, you know, he's he's I think he was

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<v Speaker 3>trying to prove something right there that he's you know,

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<v Speaker 3>he's in there for the fight and he'll take on

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<v Speaker 3>a big guy. Colton Pariko isn't really a fighter, you know.

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<v Speaker 3>He's a big man and a good player. Obviously he

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<v Speaker 3>wouldn't be on Team Canada if he wasn't. But he's

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<v Speaker 3>not really what you would call a fighter, but he's not.

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<v Speaker 3>He's not a wars either, So I mean, yes, j T.

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<v Speaker 3>Miller was taken on a big dog and it was

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<v Speaker 3>a mismatch, but I think he had some He was

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<v Speaker 3>trying to prove something for his team as well.

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<v Speaker 1>So look, it's easy to draw a straight line between

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<v Speaker 1>the three fights and that three to one win.

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<v Speaker 2>Is that a real thing?

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think the US was motivated with the actions

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<v Speaker 1>of the Kachuck brothers and JT? And did that give

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<v Speaker 1>them enough juice to go on and win? Can we

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<v Speaker 1>be that reductive that it actually did make a tangible difference?

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know that those things really at the end

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<v Speaker 3>of the day, you can point to them and say

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<v Speaker 3>that they had a you know, a part of why

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<v Speaker 3>the Americans won. Let's go through the game and remember

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<v Speaker 3>that Connor McDavid scored an unbelievable goal I did to

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<v Speaker 3>make it one nothing, and so Canada was up one nothing.

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<v Speaker 3>The United States tied it, and then I believe it

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<v Speaker 3>was the second goal that was a bad goal on

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<v Speaker 3>Jordan Bennington, and he threw his head back and looked

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<v Speaker 3>up at the ceiling when he saw that that had

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<v Speaker 3>squeaked through, So that was a bad goal. Connor Hellibuck.

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<v Speaker 3>You don't get bad goals on him. He the goal

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<v Speaker 3>that was scored on him was scored on him by

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<v Speaker 3>the best player in the league flying at him at

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<v Speaker 3>about thirty miles an hour. So you know what I

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<v Speaker 3>said it, and I'll say it again about the game

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<v Speaker 3>tomorrow night. The US has some injuries. That's going to

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<v Speaker 3>play part of it. But the number one thing is

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<v Speaker 3>Canada has to figure out a way to beat Connor Hellibuck,

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<v Speaker 3>who's the best goalie in the world right now. And

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<v Speaker 3>isn't it ironic too though, that Connor Hellibuck, who is

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<v Speaker 3>an American, is the goaltender of the Winnipeg Jets. So

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<v Speaker 3>there he is all season long, playing in Canada and

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<v Speaker 3>now doing everything he can tomorrow night to break the

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<v Speaker 3>hearts of all the Canadians. I just find it ironic.

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<v Speaker 1>So Charlie mclvoy, he's out for Team USA and he

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<v Speaker 1>put a hit on was it McDaid?

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<v Speaker 2>Who did he hit?

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<v Speaker 3>I think he hit Connor McDavid.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yes, yes, that's right.

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<v Speaker 1>And I wanted to ask you because Connor McDavid potentially

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<v Speaker 1>the best hockey player in the world. Maybe not potentially

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<v Speaker 1>maybe he is, and I feel like once upon a time,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe I'm misremembering, there are like unwritten rules about putting

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<v Speaker 1>massive hits on some of these skilled players that are

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<v Speaker 1>big time stars, Like no one ever hit Gretzky right

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<v Speaker 1>from what I can recall, and he was protected. Was

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<v Speaker 1>that bad form of McAvoy to put that hit on

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<v Speaker 1>Nick David?

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<v Speaker 3>No, not at all, And fact I think that that's

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<v Speaker 3>another one of the things that inspired his team. I

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<v Speaker 3>think that was a great hit. And I what I'm

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<v Speaker 3>really happy about from my just my little perch, is

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<v Speaker 3>that the Canadians didn't go after McAvoy and try to

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<v Speaker 3>fight him because he laid out a good hit. So

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<v Speaker 3>many times in the NHL you'll see a really good hit,

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<v Speaker 3>and I'll bet you Sergacheff comes up with good ones

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<v Speaker 3>from that time to time, and then all of a

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<v Speaker 3>sudden he's got to fight some guy from the other

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<v Speaker 3>team and it was a clean hit. It just happened

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<v Speaker 3>to be the guy had his head down or whatever

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<v Speaker 3>I was. I thought that was exciting to see Charlie

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<v Speaker 3>McAvoy hit Connor McDavid in that way. I don't think

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<v Speaker 3>I've ever seen him hit like that, But he's a

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<v Speaker 3>big guy. He can take it. Wayne in his day

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<v Speaker 3>he wasn't a small man, but he was small compared

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<v Speaker 3>to the size of the league. And so everybody said

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<v Speaker 3>to the other team, if you come, you're handim, you're

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<v Speaker 3>going to pay. So, you know, it was an unwritten thing,

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<v Speaker 3>like you better be ready if you're going to try

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<v Speaker 3>to hit ninety nine.

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<v Speaker 2>How much of this, uh, I don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>We don't do a lot of politics on the show

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<v Speaker 1>for obvious reasons, but there is this kind of undercurrent

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<v Speaker 1>of you know, the comments made by Donald Trump fifty

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<v Speaker 1>first state all that stuff, and then the Canadians boo

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<v Speaker 1>our national anthem, and then a lot of people drawn

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<v Speaker 1>a line between the booing of the national anthem and

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<v Speaker 1>the decision making of the US team to fight from

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<v Speaker 1>the drop of the of the or even before like

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<v Speaker 1>things got going.

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<v Speaker 2>How much of that do you buy into? Do you

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<v Speaker 2>believe it's it's real?

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<v Speaker 1>As far as the passion that appears to be permeating

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<v Speaker 1>between these two.

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<v Speaker 3>Teams, well, I'm not very proud of my fellow Canadians

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<v Speaker 3>booing the American national anthem for any reason at any time.

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<v Speaker 3>United States and Canada are best of friends. They'll be

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<v Speaker 3>best of friends before this current administration, and they'll be

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<v Speaker 3>best of friends after this current administration. And I don't

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<v Speaker 3>think that that that's the way you do things. But

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<v Speaker 3>you're in a hockey arena. Fans can say whatever they want,

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<v Speaker 3>they can do whatever they want. And you know, but

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<v Speaker 3>but I I I don't. I don't agree with it

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<v Speaker 3>doesn't motivate the American players. I'll bet it does, because

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<v Speaker 3>you know, it's fun to be in a in a

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<v Speaker 3>in a building where it's seething and you win the game,

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<v Speaker 3>or you can, you might be able to beat their

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<v Speaker 3>their team. It's it's fun. So I think it inspired people.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't. I don't. Again, I'm repeating myself, but I

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<v Speaker 3>don't like that kind of thing, because the Americans have

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<v Speaker 3>always been there for the Canadians, and the Canadians have

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<v Speaker 3>always been there for the Americans when it comes right

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<v Speaker 3>down to it, when it comes to importance up other

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<v Speaker 3>than sports, we've always been the best of friends. And

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<v Speaker 3>so I didn't like that.

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<v Speaker 1>So Montreal a century, if not more, of hockey history.

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<v Speaker 1>And I was not in the building, of course, but

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<v Speaker 1>holy smokes, did that environment look electric? What sort of

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<v Speaker 1>environment do you think Boston a great domestic hockey city,

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<v Speaker 1>but certainly not with the history of Montreal, is going

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<v Speaker 1>to bring coming up Tomorrow night? I mean, Neil, there

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<v Speaker 1>are reports that current NHL players have reached out to

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<v Speaker 1>try to get tickets and people are like sorry, like

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<v Speaker 1>we're sold out, there are no coms available. What sort

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<v Speaker 1>of atmosphere do you think we're in for Tomorrow night

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<v Speaker 1>in Boston.

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<v Speaker 3>I think you're in for an electric atmosphere. I don't

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<v Speaker 3>think it, and I may be wrong, So this is

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<v Speaker 3>just I don't think it's not going to be I

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<v Speaker 3>don't think it will be as passionate as Montreal because

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<v Speaker 3>I don't think that you have the passion for a

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<v Speaker 3>US hockey team like you have for a Canadian for

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<v Speaker 3>the team Canada. In Montreal, I think you have a

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<v Speaker 3>very passionate Boston crowd for the Boston Bruins. But I

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<v Speaker 3>think you're going to have a lot of Canadian fans

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<v Speaker 3>sneak into that building, meaning that they bought tickets through somebody,

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, and they got in there and they're going

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<v Speaker 3>to be cheering for the Canadian team. But it will

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<v Speaker 3>be electric. It will definitely be a pro US side

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<v Speaker 3>for sure, probably not as pro Us as the Bell

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<v Speaker 3>Center was pro Canadian. But I mean, I'm really looking

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<v Speaker 3>forward to the game tomorrow night. And I'm a guy,

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<v Speaker 3>like you said, and I admit it, didn't think this

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<v Speaker 3>would be the greatest of all little tournaments here, but

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<v Speaker 3>it's turned out to be one of the best ones

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<v Speaker 3>I've ever seen.

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<v Speaker 1>All Right, Neil, before I set you loose, what are

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<v Speaker 1>we in for tomorrow? How do you think it goes down?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, it's going to be close, And that's sort of

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<v Speaker 3>a bailing out by saying that I think Canada is

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<v Speaker 3>going to be able to do it, just because of

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<v Speaker 3>the injuries the United States has and because of the

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<v Speaker 3>power play that the Canadians have. But again, it's going

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<v Speaker 3>to be close, and it sure could go the other

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<v Speaker 3>way for sure. It's just I mean, it's just going

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<v Speaker 3>to be a great hockey game, and I'm not I

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<v Speaker 3>have no dog in the fight. I've been living in

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<v Speaker 3>the United States far longer than I lived in Canada,

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<v Speaker 3>so I don't have a dog in this fight. Meaning

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<v Speaker 3>I'm not cheering for either side. I'm just looking at

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<v Speaker 3>it as an observer, as somebody who's trying to get

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<v Speaker 3>it right. So that I can come on a show

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<v Speaker 3>like this and be right. But that's all I'm looking for.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, it's always great to get your perspective as somebody

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<v Speaker 1>who' steeped in the hockey history of both countries.

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<v Speaker 2>I can't wait for it.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's going to be exciting and I'm excited

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<v Speaker 1>to break it down with you next week. Enjoy the

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<v Speaker 1>game the old chat soon.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, yeah, thanks for having me, all right.

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<v Speaker 1>The great Neil Smith, former general manager of the Rangers

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<v Speaker 1>and the Islanders Canadian and now lives here in the

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<v Speaker 1>United States. We have the Four Nations face off for

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<v Speaker 1>you guys tomorrow night on the station by the way.

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<v Speaker 1>It follows the Craig Smith Coaches Show, which follows our show,

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<v Speaker 1>which ends at six o'clock