Speaker 1: Four nations face off Thomas Douay close tomorrow in Boston.
Speaker 1: Our next guest joins us on a weekly basis to
Speaker 1: talk Hockey Talk NHL, Neil Smith on a Wednesday afternoon.
Speaker 2: Neil, Happy Wednesday, sir, how are you very good?
Speaker 3: Thanks Spence, how about you. I've had a little bit
Speaker 3: of a break here from the NHL, so that's that's
Speaker 3: been nice to get to watch some great hockey, though
Speaker 3: with the poor nations.
Speaker 1: So Neil, if memory serves initially you were not too
Speaker 1: thrilled at the prospect of what this tournament could bring us,
Speaker 1: is that is that fair to say?
Speaker 3: Absolutely fair, because I just saw it as a, you know,
Speaker 3: an NHL tournament that was sort of being positioned as
Speaker 3: a national you know, somehow had national pride in it.
Speaker 3: But the players played so hard in this thing. I
Speaker 3: didn't expect them to play as hard as they played
Speaker 3: as they were playing. I still know that it's not
Speaker 3: a truly country representative tournament because you have to play
Speaker 3: in the NAH to be able to be in the tournament.
Speaker 3: And having said that, I've never seen NHL players play
Speaker 3: even close to this in an All Star game, which
Speaker 3: is what this took The place of so anything that
Speaker 3: can bring great hockey in place of the All Star Game,
Speaker 3: which is bad hockey, I'm all for.
Speaker 1: So, Neil, educate us a little bit on the US
Speaker 1: Canada rivalry in hockey. Now, for a long long time,
Speaker 1: I'm going to give you the space here because I'm
Speaker 1: not the expert you are, But for a long long
Speaker 1: time it was like Canada and Russia because the US
Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily a hockey country that could rival those two.
Speaker 1: So it feels from my perspective that the juice is
Speaker 1: kind of upped over the past I should say, the
Speaker 1: last twenty years, twenty five years or so. But obviously
Speaker 1: these are two teams and two teams representing two countries
Speaker 1: that have a healthy amount of sports eight for each other.
Speaker 1: So educate us, Educate us a little bit on this
Speaker 1: rivalry and why it's so intense.
Speaker 3: Well, Spence, it actually took. It actually started forty five
Speaker 3: years ago when the nineteen eighty Miracle team won the
Speaker 3: gold medal at Lake Placid, the American team, and that
Speaker 3: inspired a lot of young Americans to want to play hockey,
Speaker 3: and then along came in the eighties after that, Wayne
Speaker 3: Gretzky gets traded to the La Kings from Edmonton, and
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, la now has a superstar, generational,
Speaker 3: unbelievable talent like Wayne Gretzky and all the celebrities, and
Speaker 3: everybody wants to go and start going to the La
Speaker 3: form and seeing the La Kings play. And then you know,
Speaker 3: along comes Disney who puts a team in Anaheim. And
Speaker 3: then along, you know, there's a team that gets put
Speaker 3: in San Jose by the Guns. They put that team
Speaker 3: and then they started off in the Cow Palace in
Speaker 3: San Francisco and then went up to Santose. So hockey
Speaker 3: was moving into non traditional places. A little while later Phoenix,
Speaker 3: as you and I wouldn't be talking right now had
Speaker 3: there not been a Phoenix Coyotes. And then you know
Speaker 3: there were other non traditional markets. Florida suddenly came in,
Speaker 3: Tampa came in at the time that Ottawa got back
Speaker 3: in the league, Florida came in when Anaheim came in.
Speaker 3: So you had these outposts of non traditional hockey. Because
Speaker 3: in the United States, the hockey players were coming in
Speaker 3: the seventies primarily from Boston, New England area, and from Minnesota.
Speaker 3: Maybe a little bit of Michigan. But that was about it,
Speaker 3: and there was never a hockey player come out of
Speaker 3: Texas or Nevada, or California or even Long Island. And
Speaker 3: it's been this growth of the NHL and hockey in
Speaker 3: general and the exposure that the NHL's got into so
Speaker 3: many different places that I think has inspired young athletes
Speaker 3: to want to become hockey players. And that's what they've done.
Speaker 3: So what am I saying about Canada, Well, Canada has
Speaker 3: basically stayed the same. They've been hockey crazy throughout the
Speaker 3: country the whole time. It has not waned, it has
Speaker 3: not gone up, it has stayed the same. How many
Speaker 3: people live in Canada about thirty five million. How many
Speaker 3: people live in the States three hundred and thirty million.
Speaker 3: So if you start to get the United States passionate
Speaker 3: about hockey, it won't be long before the United States
Speaker 3: is going to catch up to a country that's a
Speaker 3: tenth of its size in production of hockey players. And
Speaker 3: I really believe that's what's happened. They've caught up. They're
Speaker 3: producing a volume of really talented hockey players that matches Canada.
Speaker 3: So the that Canada used to have because it was
Speaker 3: every kid playing on a rink in the winter is
Speaker 3: now competed. Is very competitive by the United States, who
Speaker 3: has even though they don't have the percentage of young
Speaker 3: athletes picking hockey, just the smaller percentage of American young
Speaker 3: athletes picking hockey probably equals what they have in Canada.
Speaker 3: So this is why the rivalry has gotten and gotten
Speaker 3: more intense. It was for a long time that Canada
Speaker 3: would always beat the United States, and then in the
Speaker 3: nineties in the World Cup in nineteen ninety six, United
Speaker 3: States won that against Canada, and that was quite a
Speaker 3: thing for the United States again inspiring young people to play,
Speaker 3: showing that they can be competitive and beat Canada. And
Speaker 3: then it's just grown from there. So that's the rivalry.
Speaker 3: Then you've got the just the natural North American rivalry
Speaker 3: of the countries of Canada and the United States. You know,
Speaker 3: Canada is the little guy looking at the big you know,
Speaker 3: the elephant down below saying, you know the look, this
Speaker 3: is the superpower of the world. You know, the number
Speaker 3: one richest nation in the world. Canada is pretty well off.
Speaker 3: But you know, Canada is dwarfed by the United States,
Speaker 3: of course, and there is a rivalry there everybody speaks
Speaker 3: the same language, everybody. They've got a common border that's
Speaker 3: not hard to get across if to go and play
Speaker 3: sports against each other. And I think it's natural that,
Speaker 3: you know, Americans want to be Canadians and Canadians really
Speaker 3: want to beat Americans because they want to have one
Speaker 3: thing that they're better than the United States. So that's
Speaker 3: that's a long way of giving you the history of
Speaker 3: it and where it is today.
Speaker 1: You know, we had a pretty unique experience out this
Speaker 1: way in two thousand and two with the Winter Olympic
Speaker 1: Games being held in Salt Lake, and I can remember
Speaker 1: watching the Canada US gold medal game. Canada won that
Speaker 1: one five to two, and so I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people out this way got a little bit of
Speaker 1: a taste of that rivalry. But does it feel now?
Speaker 1: And maybe I'm being a prisoner of the moment, because
Speaker 1: I've gotta say, Neil, I was pretty excited to watch
Speaker 1: US Canada on Saturday night. I did not think I
Speaker 1: was going to watch a game that had three fights
Speaker 1: in the first nine seconds, and I did not think
Speaker 1: I was going to be watching a game that would
Speaker 1: lead to the Americans winning on Canadian soil. In Montreal,
Speaker 1: and so I'm not trying to be a prisoner of
Speaker 1: the moment, But does it feel like this current iteration
Speaker 1: has taken another level of intensity or was that just
Speaker 1: a moment in time on Saturday night.
Speaker 3: No, I don't think it was a moment in time
Speaker 3: on Saturday night. I don't at all. I think that
Speaker 3: there's I don't like those fights to the beginning of
Speaker 3: the game because two of them with the Kochuck brothers
Speaker 3: were stage fights, and and what I mean by that
Speaker 3: is there was no reason for them. There's no anger,
Speaker 3: nobody had done anything, and all of a sudden, you know,
Speaker 3: these four guys all decided they're going to fight. The
Speaker 3: other fight between JT. Miller and Perreco, that was some
Speaker 3: pushing and shoving and some you know, some things were
Speaker 3: said and some some some back and forth that led
Speaker 3: to that one. So that one, you know, I'm okay with.
Speaker 3: I don't think it's a moment in time. I think
Speaker 3: that the United States is very competitive with Canada, and
Speaker 3: I don't think that the United States has taken over
Speaker 3: Canada yet. And I don't think no matter who wins
Speaker 3: tomorrow night, that that necessarily means that you know, if
Speaker 3: Canada wins, in Canada is still the powerhouse of the world.
Speaker 3: And if United States wins, well, there's got to be
Speaker 3: a past the torch. I don't believe that. I think
Speaker 3: we're in a time right now in twenty twenty five,
Speaker 3: you know, and let's say twenty twenty to twenty thirty,
Speaker 3: that these teams are really closely balanced. They're close to
Speaker 3: each other, the countries are close in being able to
Speaker 3: put out competitive teams. I do think they'll come a
Speaker 3: day and I don't forget I'm born Canadian, that the
Speaker 3: United States will be able to have a stronger production
Speaker 3: of star players than Canada, simply based upon the fact
Speaker 3: that the population is so much bigger and so many
Speaker 3: more kids are going to be interested in playing.
Speaker 1: So I want to follow up on something you referenced,
Speaker 1: and you did explain why you called these fights staged,
Speaker 1: but this kind of took another level, as Matthew Kochok
Speaker 1: and Brandon Hagell, who fought I believe that was the
Speaker 1: first five of the Knights, have kind of James barbs
Speaker 1: back and forth over the past couple of days, and
Speaker 1: Hagel said it was quote done what he did as
Speaker 1: far as the fight goes, was for the flag and
Speaker 1: not the cameras. And then he continued, he said, quote,
Speaker 1: we don't need to initiate anything. We don't have any
Speaker 1: group chats going on what's going on out there, playing
Speaker 1: our game and giving it everything and doing it for
Speaker 1: our country. We just want to play as hard as
Speaker 1: we can and do it for the flag on the chest.
Speaker 1: This is clearly a shot at what you said, right,
Speaker 1: He's clearly taking a shot at the Kachuck brothers and JT.
Speaker 1: Miller for pre planning these fights. Tell me, is it
Speaker 1: like an unwritten rule? Is it a code in hockey
Speaker 1: where that's just not the way you go about your
Speaker 1: business of pre planning these fights.
Speaker 3: No, I don't want to say that. I mean, this
Speaker 3: does happen when you know somebody wants to send a
Speaker 3: message right away that you know what, we're not going
Speaker 3: to back down from you guys. And I think the
Speaker 3: Kachucks were the ones that instigated those. I maybe I
Speaker 3: wasn't on the ice. I didn't hear the language going
Speaker 3: back and forth. What's really amazing about those two things,
Speaker 3: if you think about it, is, first of all, it's
Speaker 3: Matthew Kittchuck and Hegel. Hegel plays for Campa Bay Lightning,
Speaker 3: Matthew plays for Florida Panthers. There's a little bit of
Speaker 3: a rivalry right there. And then you get Brady Kitchuck,
Speaker 3: who's the captain of the Ottawa Senators ninety miles from
Speaker 3: where that building he was in in Montreal and the
Speaker 3: rival of the Montreal Canadians, and he fights his brother's teammate,
Speaker 3: Sam Bennett, like I'm sure Sam Bennett and Matthew Kitchuck
Speaker 3: are friends, and Brady called him on. So there was
Speaker 3: an irony in those two things. But it happens more
Speaker 3: in playoffs than in anything. When the playoff intensity comes,
Speaker 3: sometimes you'll see real good players just say, you know,
Speaker 3: call on one of the real good players on the
Speaker 3: other team. I remember it happening with klotch Eru and
Speaker 3: Sydney Crosby when Philadelphia gets played in the in the playoffs,
Speaker 3: and you know, you can go back to two thousand
Speaker 3: and five when the two captains of the Calgary Flames
Speaker 3: and the Tampa Bay Lightning were in the final, and
Speaker 3: it was like Vincent Lecavalier from Tampa and Jerome mcginla
Speaker 3: from the Calgary Flames. They got they had a go
Speaker 3: right in the final, and so this will happen from
Speaker 3: time to time. But you know, and and it's it's
Speaker 3: these are young guys that are that got tons of
Speaker 3: testosterone and that's going ten you know, one thousand miles
Speaker 3: an hour inside of them, and it just shows though
Speaker 3: how badly they want to win.
Speaker 2: You got to help me understand what the hell j T.
Speaker 2: Miller was thinking.
Speaker 1: I mean, the cold and Paraco kid who he went
Speaker 1: at was like twice his size. I mean, a lot
Speaker 1: of the attention has been on the Kuchuk brothers and
Speaker 1: what they did. But it was a little ty domish,
Speaker 1: wasn't it. It looked like that was a big time
Speaker 1: mismatch Neil well I did.
Speaker 3: But that's J. T. Miller. He's a bit of a
Speaker 3: pit bull, you know, he's he's I think he was
Speaker 3: trying to prove something right there that he's you know,
Speaker 3: he's in there for the fight and he'll take on
Speaker 3: a big guy. Colton Pariko isn't really a fighter, you know.
Speaker 3: He's a big man and a good player. Obviously he
Speaker 3: wouldn't be on Team Canada if he wasn't. But he's
Speaker 3: not really what you would call a fighter, but he's not.
Speaker 3: He's not a wars either, So I mean, yes, j T.
Speaker 3: Miller was taken on a big dog and it was
Speaker 3: a mismatch, but I think he had some He was
Speaker 3: trying to prove something for his team as well.
Speaker 1: So look, it's easy to draw a straight line between
Speaker 1: the three fights and that three to one win.
Speaker 2: Is that a real thing?
Speaker 1: Do you think the US was motivated with the actions
Speaker 1: of the Kachuck brothers and JT? And did that give
Speaker 1: them enough juice to go on and win? Can we
Speaker 1: be that reductive that it actually did make a tangible difference?
Speaker 3: I don't know that those things really at the end
Speaker 3: of the day, you can point to them and say
Speaker 3: that they had a you know, a part of why
Speaker 3: the Americans won. Let's go through the game and remember
Speaker 3: that Connor McDavid scored an unbelievable goal I did to
Speaker 3: make it one nothing, and so Canada was up one nothing.
Speaker 3: The United States tied it, and then I believe it
Speaker 3: was the second goal that was a bad goal on
Speaker 3: Jordan Bennington, and he threw his head back and looked
Speaker 3: up at the ceiling when he saw that that had
Speaker 3: squeaked through, So that was a bad goal. Connor Hellibuck.
Speaker 3: You don't get bad goals on him. He the goal
Speaker 3: that was scored on him was scored on him by
Speaker 3: the best player in the league flying at him at
Speaker 3: about thirty miles an hour. So you know what I
Speaker 3: said it, and I'll say it again about the game
Speaker 3: tomorrow night. The US has some injuries. That's going to
Speaker 3: play part of it. But the number one thing is
Speaker 3: Canada has to figure out a way to beat Connor Hellibuck,
Speaker 3: who's the best goalie in the world right now. And
Speaker 3: isn't it ironic too though, that Connor Hellibuck, who is
Speaker 3: an American, is the goaltender of the Winnipeg Jets. So
Speaker 3: there he is all season long, playing in Canada and
Speaker 3: now doing everything he can tomorrow night to break the
Speaker 3: hearts of all the Canadians. I just find it ironic.
Speaker 1: So Charlie mclvoy, he's out for Team USA and he
Speaker 1: put a hit on was it McDaid?
Speaker 2: Who did he hit?
Speaker 3: I think he hit Connor McDavid.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, yes, that's right.
Speaker 1: And I wanted to ask you because Connor McDavid potentially
Speaker 1: the best hockey player in the world. Maybe not potentially
Speaker 1: maybe he is, and I feel like once upon a time,
Speaker 1: maybe I'm misremembering, there are like unwritten rules about putting
Speaker 1: massive hits on some of these skilled players that are
Speaker 1: big time stars, Like no one ever hit Gretzky right
Speaker 1: from what I can recall, and he was protected. Was
Speaker 1: that bad form of McAvoy to put that hit on
Speaker 1: Nick David?
Speaker 3: No, not at all, And fact I think that that's
Speaker 3: another one of the things that inspired his team. I
Speaker 3: think that was a great hit. And I what I'm
Speaker 3: really happy about from my just my little perch, is
Speaker 3: that the Canadians didn't go after McAvoy and try to
Speaker 3: fight him because he laid out a good hit. So
Speaker 3: many times in the NHL you'll see a really good hit,
Speaker 3: and I'll bet you Sergacheff comes up with good ones
Speaker 3: from that time to time, and then all of a
Speaker 3: sudden he's got to fight some guy from the other
Speaker 3: team and it was a clean hit. It just happened
Speaker 3: to be the guy had his head down or whatever
Speaker 3: I was. I thought that was exciting to see Charlie
Speaker 3: McAvoy hit Connor McDavid in that way. I don't think
Speaker 3: I've ever seen him hit like that, But he's a
Speaker 3: big guy. He can take it. Wayne in his day
Speaker 3: he wasn't a small man, but he was small compared
Speaker 3: to the size of the league. And so everybody said
Speaker 3: to the other team, if you come, you're handim, you're
Speaker 3: going to pay. So, you know, it was an unwritten thing,
Speaker 3: like you better be ready if you're going to try
Speaker 3: to hit ninety nine.
Speaker 2: How much of this, uh, I don't know.
Speaker 1: We don't do a lot of politics on the show
Speaker 1: for obvious reasons, but there is this kind of undercurrent
Speaker 1: of you know, the comments made by Donald Trump fifty
Speaker 1: first state all that stuff, and then the Canadians boo
Speaker 1: our national anthem, and then a lot of people drawn
Speaker 1: a line between the booing of the national anthem and
Speaker 1: the decision making of the US team to fight from
Speaker 1: the drop of the of the or even before like
Speaker 1: things got going.
Speaker 2: How much of that do you buy into? Do you
Speaker 2: believe it's it's real?
Speaker 1: As far as the passion that appears to be permeating
Speaker 1: between these two.
Speaker 3: Teams, well, I'm not very proud of my fellow Canadians
Speaker 3: booing the American national anthem for any reason at any time.
Speaker 3: United States and Canada are best of friends. They'll be
Speaker 3: best of friends before this current administration, and they'll be
Speaker 3: best of friends after this current administration. And I don't
Speaker 3: think that that that's the way you do things. But
Speaker 3: you're in a hockey arena. Fans can say whatever they want,
Speaker 3: they can do whatever they want. And you know, but
Speaker 3: but I I I don't. I don't agree with it
Speaker 3: doesn't motivate the American players. I'll bet it does, because
Speaker 3: you know, it's fun to be in a in a
Speaker 3: in a building where it's seething and you win the game,
Speaker 3: or you can, you might be able to beat their
Speaker 3: their team. It's it's fun. So I think it inspired people.
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't. Again, I'm repeating myself, but I
Speaker 3: don't like that kind of thing, because the Americans have
Speaker 3: always been there for the Canadians, and the Canadians have
Speaker 3: always been there for the Americans when it comes right
Speaker 3: down to it, when it comes to importance up other
Speaker 3: than sports, we've always been the best of friends. And
Speaker 3: so I didn't like that.
Speaker 1: So Montreal a century, if not more, of hockey history.
Speaker 1: And I was not in the building, of course, but
Speaker 1: holy smokes, did that environment look electric? What sort of
Speaker 1: environment do you think Boston a great domestic hockey city,
Speaker 1: but certainly not with the history of Montreal, is going
Speaker 1: to bring coming up Tomorrow night? I mean, Neil, there
Speaker 1: are reports that current NHL players have reached out to
Speaker 1: try to get tickets and people are like sorry, like
Speaker 1: we're sold out, there are no coms available. What sort
Speaker 1: of atmosphere do you think we're in for Tomorrow night
Speaker 1: in Boston.
Speaker 3: I think you're in for an electric atmosphere. I don't
Speaker 3: think it, and I may be wrong, So this is
Speaker 3: just I don't think it's not going to be I
Speaker 3: don't think it will be as passionate as Montreal because
Speaker 3: I don't think that you have the passion for a
Speaker 3: US hockey team like you have for a Canadian for
Speaker 3: the team Canada. In Montreal, I think you have a
Speaker 3: very passionate Boston crowd for the Boston Bruins. But I
Speaker 3: think you're going to have a lot of Canadian fans
Speaker 3: sneak into that building, meaning that they bought tickets through somebody,
Speaker 3: I mean, and they got in there and they're going
Speaker 3: to be cheering for the Canadian team. But it will
Speaker 3: be electric. It will definitely be a pro US side
Speaker 3: for sure, probably not as pro Us as the Bell
Speaker 3: Center was pro Canadian. But I mean, I'm really looking
Speaker 3: forward to the game tomorrow night. And I'm a guy,
Speaker 3: like you said, and I admit it, didn't think this
Speaker 3: would be the greatest of all little tournaments here, but
Speaker 3: it's turned out to be one of the best ones
Speaker 3: I've ever seen.
Speaker 1: All Right, Neil, before I set you loose, what are
Speaker 1: we in for tomorrow? How do you think it goes down?
Speaker 3: Well, it's going to be close, And that's sort of
Speaker 3: a bailing out by saying that I think Canada is
Speaker 3: going to be able to do it, just because of
Speaker 3: the injuries the United States has and because of the
Speaker 3: power play that the Canadians have. But again, it's going
Speaker 3: to be close, and it sure could go the other
Speaker 3: way for sure. It's just I mean, it's just going
Speaker 3: to be a great hockey game, and I'm not I
Speaker 3: have no dog in the fight. I've been living in
Speaker 3: the United States far longer than I lived in Canada,
Speaker 3: so I don't have a dog in this fight. Meaning
Speaker 3: I'm not cheering for either side. I'm just looking at
Speaker 3: it as an observer, as somebody who's trying to get
Speaker 3: it right. So that I can come on a show
Speaker 3: like this and be right. But that's all I'm looking for.
Speaker 1: Well, it's always great to get your perspective as somebody
Speaker 1: who' steeped in the hockey history of both countries.
Speaker 2: I can't wait for it.
Speaker 1: I think it's going to be exciting and I'm excited
Speaker 1: to break it down with you next week. Enjoy the
Speaker 1: game the old chat soon.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, thanks for having me, all right.
Speaker 1: The great Neil Smith, former general manager of the Rangers
Speaker 1: and the Islanders Canadian and now lives here in the
Speaker 1: United States. We have the Four Nations face off for
Speaker 1: you guys tomorrow night on the station by the way.
Speaker 1: It follows the Craig Smith Coaches Show, which follows our show,
Speaker 1: which ends at six o'clock