Speaker 1: Bill cunning in the Great America. Welcome this wonderful, good
Speaker 1: Friday afternoon in the tri State. Windy conditions exist and
Speaker 1: it's going to rain over the weekend. We'll see what
Speaker 1: happens there. Reds Baseball kicks off at six oh five
Speaker 1: to night life in Baltimore. Three in Baltimore, three in
Speaker 1: Miami than three in Denver. The temperatures last night in
Speaker 1: Denver was twenty eight degrees with four inches of snow. Hopefully,
Speaker 1: when the Reds get there might be in better shape.
Speaker 1: But until then we have more important issues percolat And
Speaker 1: by the way, the Reds lost yesterday was devastating, absolutely devastating.
Speaker 1: But that's the funny pages of life compared to life
Speaker 1: and death. And once again we have a serious situation
Speaker 1: that happened on the main streets of Cincinnati. And this
Speaker 1: is only April. One can only imagine June, July, and
Speaker 1: August what's going to transpire. And I watched a couple
Speaker 1: of nights ago with the FOP ahead Ken Kober, who's
Speaker 1: been with police about thirty years and he's seen it
Speaker 1: all and done it all about what happened on Short
Speaker 1: Vine involving Kyle Muick, who was murdered. It was an
Speaker 1: armed robbery that went bad, as if some can go good.
Speaker 1: But the fifteen year old involved in that case in
Speaker 1: an extensive history with the juvenile court system under Judge
Speaker 1: Kerry Bloom in which there were repeated attempts. This is
Speaker 1: a fifteen year old who should be a freshman in
Speaker 1: high school committing numerous armed robberies and other offenses, cutting
Speaker 1: off ankle, monitors, etc. And the system never addressed it.
Speaker 1: And Ken Kober, the head of the FOP, welcome again
Speaker 1: to the bill cunning him show so Ken, first of all,
Speaker 1: tell the American people may not be aware of the
Speaker 1: circumstances of the murder of Kyle Murick on Shortvine near
Speaker 1: the UC campus a few nights ago.
Speaker 2: Hi, Billy, Yeah, thanks for having me. It was absolutely
Speaker 2: a senseless murder that never should have happened. The suspect
Speaker 2: fifteen years old that was just accused and had been
Speaker 2: recently locked up of shooting another person or shooting at
Speaker 2: a person and at a house in late November. This
Speaker 2: person had been locked up and then they just side of, well,
Speaker 2: you know, maybe he's going to be okay. We'll let
Speaker 2: him out and put him on electronic monitoring. And then
Speaker 2: April second, just days before the shooting, they terminated his
Speaker 2: EMU and said, no, we're just going to let you
Speaker 2: roam three around the streets of Cincinnati. And of course
Speaker 2: this is the end result something that should have been prevented.
Speaker 1: And you said that the Hamilton County Juvenile court system
Speaker 1: did not address repeated attempts to put himself in prison.
Speaker 1: In fact, there were numerous, and I would imagine Judge
Speaker 1: Carrie Bloom is going to raise her ugly head again
Speaker 1: relative to giving these juvenile murderers more chances. So as
Speaker 1: far as shooting at the house, so as I understand
Speaker 1: that he was charged with many offenses, only a few
Speaker 1: of which he was actually apprehended for in which he
Speaker 1: connected arm robberies. This is like a freshman in high
Speaker 1: school going on for years. One might ask for is
Speaker 1: the father. That's a different issue. But can you give
Speaker 1: any meat to the bones about simply this kid, this
Speaker 1: fifteen year old shooting at a house in November. Why?
Speaker 2: Pretty much because he's out of control. I mean, he
Speaker 2: has more, he had more charges signed against him than
Speaker 2: he has years on this earth. And you started with
Speaker 2: stealing a car and running from the police. I mean,
Speaker 2: who didn't see that this pattern was going to escalate?
Speaker 2: And then of course it leads to he's over in Norwood,
Speaker 2: shoots at somebody, bullets go through a house, he gets
Speaker 2: locked up for that, and then let's ride out. I mean,
Speaker 2: this is a pattern that we see all the time.
Speaker 2: Kids start with your minor crimes, they're not held accountable,
Speaker 2: and then what are they going to do. They're just
Speaker 2: going to continue to escalate and escalate and escalate, and
Speaker 2: that's what has been done in this situation.
Speaker 1: Do you have some idea how old he was when
Speaker 1: he first committed serious felonies. He's fifteen years old. Now
Speaker 1: he's finally charged with murder. That might be plied down
Speaker 1: at some point. Who knows if he's going to be
Speaker 1: bound over that's another issue. But nonetheless, when did he
Speaker 1: start his crime spree.
Speaker 2: Well, they didn't start even charging him criminally until he
Speaker 2: was thirteen, So between thirteen and fourteen, he's stealing cars,
Speaker 2: you're committing felonies. And of course now it leads to
Speaker 2: this this incident that I said, it just should not
Speaker 2: have ever happened, never should have been there to be
Speaker 2: able to do this.
Speaker 1: So under thirteen. If you're like nine, ten or eleven
Speaker 1: committing serious felonies, that doesn't even arise to the level
Speaker 1: of arresting them. And what do you do with the
Speaker 1: ten years?
Speaker 2: What do you do with a ten year old? Well
Speaker 2: that's the problem, you know, is there becomes the how
Speaker 2: culpable is a nine or ten year old? And I
Speaker 2: think every situation is different, you know, but what we're
Speaker 2: seeing is it's not necessarily the nine, ten and eleven
Speaker 2: year olds. They're they're acting out and they're showing behaviors
Speaker 2: that are eventually going to be criminal, but it's typically
Speaker 2: not until they're the twelve, thirteen, fourteen years is when
Speaker 2: they when they really you know, have have their criminal
Speaker 2: uh pursuit in.
Speaker 1: High drives And in fact, Ken Kobert, we cannot give
Speaker 1: out his name because that would be considered improper correct,
Speaker 1: you can't say who it is. Yeah, that's unkind, that's
Speaker 1: no good, that's unkind.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: Kyle Muhrick was simply at Short Vine. I've been there
Speaker 1: once or twice by Bogarts. He was on cell phone.
Speaker 1: The video seems to indicate that Kyle Murich was simply
Speaker 1: enjoying a rare weather good night and he was simply
Speaker 1: there on his phone and take us through the video
Speaker 1: on what it showed.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, he's standing there clearly, whether it's checking a
Speaker 2: text message or sending a text message, only to have
Speaker 2: a gun shoved in his stomach. He immediately reacts, tries
Speaker 2: to run away from the situation to get out of it,
Speaker 2: and in the meantime he ends up getting shot a
Speaker 2: couple times, and he ends up being able to retrieve
Speaker 2: his legally owned firearm and return fire trying to defend himself.
Speaker 1: And he didn't know it, but he was dead man walking.
Speaker 1: He continued to run away a little bit until the
Speaker 1: bullets took effect. And did this fifteen year old perpetrator?
Speaker 1: Was he shot?
Speaker 2: It's my understanding he did take a couple bullets.
Speaker 1: Yes, but he's doing okay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he should be now at twenty twenty. Now how
Speaker 2: long we don't know, but mind understanding. He's been released
Speaker 2: from the hospital and he is in cuss at least
Speaker 2: for the interim you know, over twenty twenty on Auburn Avenue.
Speaker 1: And as you know, when you're seventeen years old, you
Speaker 1: should be bound over as an adult. Committing adult crime
Speaker 1: means adult time. But is there some question in your
Speaker 1: mind whether the charge is going to be reduced we
Speaker 1: have a brand new prosecutor, and whether he's actually going
Speaker 1: to face adult time for these crimes or not.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, it's interesting because we just had this
Speaker 2: last summer of sixteen, seventeen year old kid that shot
Speaker 2: at a policeman was charged as an adult, went through
Speaker 2: the hearing through juvenile court and they denied it. So
Speaker 2: I don't have a ton of hope that this kid's
Speaker 2: going to get tried as an adult, because if you're
Speaker 2: they're going to allow somebody to shoot at a policeman,
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't have a whole lot of hope
Speaker 2: that they're going to bind this kid over. They should,
Speaker 2: but that's still yet to be seen.
Speaker 1: And Judge Carrie Bloom remains the administrative judge and juvenile Court.
Speaker 1: He's in charge of what happens. And I went through
Speaker 1: this a long time with Melissa Powers and Joe Deeters
Speaker 1: that if they're in or eighteen, they do not have
Speaker 1: the power, the ability, the legalities to reach into juvenile
Speaker 1: court and grab the case and put it in an adult
Speaker 1: court is up to the juvenile court judge and if
Speaker 1: the juvenile court Judge Carry Bloom does not want to
Speaker 1: do it. And when you have a teenage boy shooting
Speaker 1: at police, trying to murder police officers, the future likely
Speaker 1: is not bright. And Judge Carrie Bloom in those cases
Speaker 1: do not bind over.
Speaker 2: Correct, That's correct? Yeah, Like I said, the juvenile court
Speaker 2: has the sole discretion. They have a hearing. It's go
Speaker 2: to bind overhearing where the prosecutor's office will present all
Speaker 2: their evidence. They will argue why these kids have you
Speaker 2: should be held responsible as adults for these heinous crimes.
Speaker 2: But ultimately it falls on the juvenile court judge to
Speaker 2: decide whether they want to allow that or not.
Speaker 1: And in this case, is Judge Carrie Bloom going to
Speaker 1: have this case again and again and again or is
Speaker 1: she going to give it to someone else.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna see if that's going to happen. My understanding,
Speaker 2: and I'm waiting. I'm going to do some public record.
Speaker 2: My understanding is that she either has or is going
Speaker 2: to recuse herself in this case. But I've got to
Speaker 2: going to do some records your quest to confirm that.
Speaker 1: As far as the guy, the teenager, the teenage boy
Speaker 1: that shot at the police. You know where he is now? Now,
Speaker 1: this is attempted murder of a police officer. If successful,
Speaker 1: we would have a Sunny Kim situation. But where is
Speaker 1: the kid that shot at the cop who was not
Speaker 1: bound over to adult court?
Speaker 2: Do you know? I think it's still going through the process.
Speaker 2: I don't know whether he's locked up or not. I
Speaker 2: know he was at the time last summer, but I
Speaker 2: would be shocked if he was.
Speaker 1: Still locked up, because you don't lock him up for
Speaker 1: a year. You don't lock him up, You let him
Speaker 1: go in an ankle monitor, which, as you know, is
Speaker 1: not exactly much of a punishment. So that this is
Speaker 1: a teenage boy who tried to murder an in uniform
Speaker 1: Cincinnati police officer, and I would think the victim's got
Speaker 1: to be notified. Is there any law that requires the
Speaker 1: juvenile court system under Kerry Bloom to notify the police
Speaker 1: officer that the guy, a teenage boy that tried to
Speaker 1: murder him is now free.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's under Marcy's law they have to do some
Speaker 2: of these things. But that's a whole other issue we've
Speaker 2: discovered with Marcy's Law. But there's there's gonna be some
Speaker 2: things going on. I sat on the Supreme Court headed
Speaker 2: Juvenile Reform task force that I was part of, and
Speaker 2: I think those recommendations are going to be in front
Speaker 2: of the General Assembly here as soon as they get
Speaker 2: done with the budget in the state and hopefully hold
Speaker 2: these judges more accountable with certain things such as Marcy's.
Speaker 1: Law and the other thing that the boy that shot
Speaker 1: at the end uniform police officer did he have, I
Speaker 1: assume made a previous record.
Speaker 2: He was on a forty eight hour crime spree where
Speaker 2: he committed twelve different Fallonty offenses, including armed robbery, carjacking.
Speaker 2: I mean, you name it was. That was a forty
Speaker 2: eight hour period that all came to head when he
Speaker 2: shot at a police officer.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's move on to Benjamin Addison was a twenty
Speaker 1: one year old UC student who did everything right, had
Speaker 1: go grades. He was a mentor to incoming freshman. He
Speaker 1: worked one or two part time jobs to help his
Speaker 1: parents pay for his education at UC. He's in Mount Auburn.
Speaker 1: He sees the lights of his car on I think
Speaker 1: it was a hun day. He's thinking, Okay, someone's going
Speaker 1: to car jack me. He goes out and sadly he
Speaker 1: confronts Justin Dugan at that point was seventeen years old.
Speaker 1: And one thing led to another, and Benjin and Benjamin
Speaker 1: Addison was murdered in cold blood in Mount Alburn, a
Speaker 1: u SE student by Justin Dugan. We couldn't give out
Speaker 1: his name until recently, and the powers that be in
Speaker 1: how Many County Prosecutor's office decided to reduce the charges
Speaker 1: against Justin Dugan the seventeen year old is now eighteen
Speaker 1: years old, and to allow him to plead guilty to
Speaker 1: lesser charges. And there was in a great sentence of
Speaker 1: twenty one years as opposed to a murder which is
Speaker 1: fifteen to life, and normally fifteen to life means basically.
Speaker 2: What they're going to be there for life.
Speaker 1: At least fifteen to life gives you a chance at
Speaker 1: keeping him for a long time, I mean, especially with
Speaker 1: a gun speck. But the powers would be in the
Speaker 1: Prosecutor's office said, you know what, let's reduce the charges
Speaker 1: on this. What's your feeling about that?
Speaker 2: Well, I've got two one. I mean, this is another
Speaker 2: juvenile that committed just an absolute senseless crime for a
Speaker 2: young man that had just a bright future ahead of him.
Speaker 2: That's now gone because of these just out of control juveniles.
Speaker 2: But without knowing all of the particulars of the case,
Speaker 2: and you know, he got sentenced to twenty one years.
Speaker 2: I don't know what conversation the prosecutor's office had with
Speaker 2: the victims family with the police. You know, I'm glad
Speaker 2: to see you got twenty one years, but yeah, of
Speaker 2: course we would like to see him locked up forever. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but you know, I heard some of the comments that
Speaker 2: the prosecutor's office has made about you know, there's always
Speaker 2: a risk, and there is a risk when you go
Speaker 2: to trial. There's a risk that they get found not guilty.
Speaker 2: There's a risk that there's a hung jury. But in
Speaker 2: my case, in this case, and not knowing what the
Speaker 2: victim's family thought, it's the victim's family wanted him to
Speaker 2: go to life, you know, go to prison for life,
Speaker 2: and that was the chance that they were willing to take,
Speaker 2: and in my opinion, that's what they should have done.
Speaker 2: But I don't know whether or not that conversation occurred.
Speaker 1: Well, according to media accounts, County pillage To prosecutor held
Speaker 1: a news conference and said that there's a risk of
Speaker 1: going to trial, which is you might be found not guilty. Also,
Speaker 1: lots of work to go through a trial, go through
Speaker 1: the appeal. It's going to be a three to five
Speaker 1: year process. But I spoke to a recent Hamley County
Speaker 1: prosecutor who must go nameless, who said, in these cases,
Speaker 1: when you have clear and convincing proof that the murder
Speaker 1: took place, and you have the person that did it,
Speaker 1: and you have overwhelming evidence that Dugan's responsible, the only
Speaker 1: way to reduce charges would be if the family requested it.
Speaker 1: If the mother and father of Benjamin Addison had said
Speaker 1: in the prosecutor's off his look, we don't want to
Speaker 1: go through the trial. We've suffered enough. We're willing to
Speaker 1: take twenty one years as opposed to thirty five to
Speaker 1: forty years because we want to put this behind us.
Speaker 1: That's when you reduce the charge, because you want to
Speaker 1: make sure he's in prison for a long time. But
Speaker 1: that this former prosecutor said to me, you don't reduce
Speaker 1: charges on a murder case arm robbery with this justin
Speaker 1: Dugan character that's committed numerous offenses over his life, that
Speaker 1: armed robbery was his business, when the family is adamantly
Speaker 1: opposed to it. In fact, I can recall the sobbing
Speaker 1: of his father thinking that this kid's going to be
Speaker 1: out of jail and when he's thirty seven or thirty
Speaker 1: eight years old, and the animal that crawls out of
Speaker 1: Lucasville and when he's thirty seven thirty eight years old
Speaker 1: is not going to be a rhad scholar. He's going
Speaker 1: to go back to the business that he knew. So
Speaker 1: this former prosecutor said to me, you don't reduce charges
Speaker 1: when the family's adamant against it. You have a clear case,
Speaker 1: and you risk it times you're you don't roll the dice.
Speaker 1: Maybe in today's world you rolled the dice. But to
Speaker 1: have twelve jurors from Hamlety County finding Justin Dugan not
Speaker 1: guilty of this case when the evidence is overwhelming of
Speaker 1: guilt is ridiculous. It is what this former prosecutor told me.
Speaker 1: Do I make any sense to you?
Speaker 2: Absolutely? You know, if you got you got a victim
Speaker 2: family saying no, we want to go to trial, we
Speaker 2: want him to be held accountable for as long as
Speaker 2: he can, then that's what you have to do, you know.
Speaker 2: And the one thing that struck me as odd that
Speaker 2: you said was you know that the prosecutor's office said, well,
Speaker 2: you know this, this is a lot of time and
Speaker 2: a lot of work. Yeah, I don't think you can
Speaker 2: put I don't think you can put a value on
Speaker 2: time or work for a victim's family that has had
Speaker 2: to suffer the loss that the Addison family has had
Speaker 2: to suffer.
Speaker 1: Well, there's a new prosecutor in town now. Lastly, this morning,
Speaker 1: Scott Sloan had on a council member, Scotty Johnson. And
Speaker 1: Scotty Johnson I have respect for him because he's a
Speaker 1: police officer on council now, spent like twenty five or
Speaker 1: thirty years, and Scotty Johnson has a few lucid moments
Speaker 1: these days. He is a liberal Democrat, not a lot,
Speaker 1: but I still respect him because of his service to
Speaker 1: the city. And he made the comments that at these
Speaker 1: youth football games in which shootings take place, that the
Speaker 1: core of that are the fathers, so to speak, of
Speaker 1: these nine year old boys in uniform betting three to
Speaker 1: five thousand dollars on the outcome of games. And I'm
Speaker 1: listening to this and I'm thinking of youth football leagues
Speaker 1: shots fired. I think one was at Wanning Hills High
Speaker 1: School and others in which the father's on the sideline,
Speaker 1: like rolling dice betting on their son's football scores. And
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, well, at least his father's involvement in the
Speaker 1: kid's life, which often doesn't happen today. But this is
Speaker 1: the wrong kind of involvement. If we got to a
Speaker 1: point now, Ken Kober of the FOP, when we have
Speaker 1: to have metal detectors and armed police officers are youth
Speaker 1: football games to keep the shootings to a minimum.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, that's the unfortunate reality. And you wonder
Speaker 2: what these it's turned fourteen or fifteen, where they get
Speaker 2: it from. They get it from their parents, they see.
Speaker 2: I mean, this is a perfect example of this kind
Speaker 2: of nonsense that's going on that leads to violence. I
Speaker 2: remember several years ago there was a shooting at a
Speaker 2: peace Bowl where kids were playing youth football in Avondale,
Speaker 2: trying to advocate for peace, and there was a shooting.
Speaker 2: The society has just gone terribly wrong.
Speaker 1: I don't know how we correct it. You have a
Speaker 1: juvenile court judge in the system that want to hold
Speaker 1: vicious criminals accountable. We have a new prosecutor's office that
Speaker 1: breaks down the charges of murderers. And now we have
Speaker 1: a city council and we're talking about metal detectors at
Speaker 1: nine year old football games and it's April.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, we had a ballwark against this kind of
Speaker 1: stuff when you had a prosecutor's office said not on
Speaker 1: my watch. And sometimes this former prosecutor said to me,
Speaker 1: you got to try the case. You got to say, well,
Speaker 1: you know, we might lose, but I'd rather have justice delayed.
Speaker 1: We'll catch them the next time on a hung jerry,
Speaker 1: We'll try them again, but we're not going to reduce
Speaker 1: charges just to save us a lot of work when
Speaker 1: the family is adamant against it, and be Benjamin Addison
Speaker 1: is dead and Justin dug is going to be walking
Speaker 1: around our community in the next seventeen or eighteen years.
Speaker 1: You get ten to fifteen percent good time, so he'll
Speaker 1: be out in seventeen or eighteen years, and the Addison
Speaker 1: family is devastated. To me, that's not justice. Well, Ken Kober,
Speaker 1: let's keep the lines of communication open and we get
Speaker 1: we have the government we deserve, and your vote makes
Speaker 1: a difference. And when this stuff goes on, if people
Speaker 1: keep electing Judge Carry Bloom and juvenile court who is
Speaker 1: a liberal social activist with a black robe on freeing
Speaker 1: these murderers and criminals and rapists to commit more crime.
Speaker 1: I can recall she released a fifteen year old boy
Speaker 1: who raped a thirteen year old boy because he had
Speaker 1: to get some counseling. That the rapists had to get
Speaker 1: some counseling and had to write a book report saying
Speaker 1: how sorry he was raping a thirteen year old boy
Speaker 1: by a fifteen year old boy. And that's where we are.
Speaker 1: But once again, Ken Cober, thanks for coming on and
Speaker 1: continues to have a good Friday and we'll see what
Speaker 1: happens down the road. And Ken Kober, who's the CEO
Speaker 1: of the FOP, thanks for coming on the Bill Cunningham Show.
Speaker 1: Thank you again.
Speaker 2: Sure, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: Bill, have a good weekend. God bless you. We have
Speaker 1: the government we deserve. Bill Cunningham News Radio seven hundred
Speaker 1: WULW