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<v Speaker 1>Bill cunning in the Great America. Welcome this wonderful, good

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<v Speaker 1>Friday afternoon in the tri State. Windy conditions exist and

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<v Speaker 1>it's going to rain over the weekend. We'll see what

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<v Speaker 1>happens there. Reds Baseball kicks off at six oh five

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<v Speaker 1>to night life in Baltimore. Three in Baltimore, three in

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<v Speaker 1>Miami than three in Denver. The temperatures last night in

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<v Speaker 1>Denver was twenty eight degrees with four inches of snow. Hopefully,

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<v Speaker 1>when the Reds get there might be in better shape.

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<v Speaker 1>But until then we have more important issues percolat And

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<v Speaker 1>by the way, the Reds lost yesterday was devastating, absolutely devastating.

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<v Speaker 1>But that's the funny pages of life compared to life

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<v Speaker 1>and death. And once again we have a serious situation

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<v Speaker 1>that happened on the main streets of Cincinnati. And this

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<v Speaker 1>is only April. One can only imagine June, July, and

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<v Speaker 1>August what's going to transpire. And I watched a couple

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<v Speaker 1>of nights ago with the FOP ahead Ken Kober, who's

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<v Speaker 1>been with police about thirty years and he's seen it

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<v Speaker 1>all and done it all about what happened on Short

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<v Speaker 1>Vine involving Kyle Muick, who was murdered. It was an

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<v Speaker 1>armed robbery that went bad, as if some can go good.

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<v Speaker 1>But the fifteen year old involved in that case in

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<v Speaker 1>an extensive history with the juvenile court system under Judge

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<v Speaker 1>Kerry Bloom in which there were repeated attempts. This is

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<v Speaker 1>a fifteen year old who should be a freshman in

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<v Speaker 1>high school committing numerous armed robberies and other offenses, cutting

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<v Speaker 1>off ankle, monitors, etc. And the system never addressed it.

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<v Speaker 1>And Ken Kober, the head of the FOP, welcome again

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<v Speaker 1>to the bill cunning him show so Ken, first of all,

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<v Speaker 1>tell the American people may not be aware of the

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<v Speaker 1>circumstances of the murder of Kyle Murick on Shortvine near

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<v Speaker 1>the UC campus a few nights ago.

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<v Speaker 2>Hi, Billy, Yeah, thanks for having me. It was absolutely

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<v Speaker 2>a senseless murder that never should have happened. The suspect

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<v Speaker 2>fifteen years old that was just accused and had been

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<v Speaker 2>recently locked up of shooting another person or shooting at

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<v Speaker 2>a person and at a house in late November. This

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<v Speaker 2>person had been locked up and then they just side of, well,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, maybe he's going to be okay. We'll let

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<v Speaker 2>him out and put him on electronic monitoring. And then

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<v Speaker 2>April second, just days before the shooting, they terminated his

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<v Speaker 2>EMU and said, no, we're just going to let you

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<v Speaker 2>roam three around the streets of Cincinnati. And of course

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<v Speaker 2>this is the end result something that should have been prevented.

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<v Speaker 1>And you said that the Hamilton County Juvenile court system

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<v Speaker 1>did not address repeated attempts to put himself in prison.

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<v Speaker 1>In fact, there were numerous, and I would imagine Judge

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<v Speaker 1>Carrie Bloom is going to raise her ugly head again

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<v Speaker 1>relative to giving these juvenile murderers more chances. So as

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<v Speaker 1>far as shooting at the house, so as I understand

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<v Speaker 1>that he was charged with many offenses, only a few

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<v Speaker 1>of which he was actually apprehended for in which he

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<v Speaker 1>connected arm robberies. This is like a freshman in high

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<v Speaker 1>school going on for years. One might ask for is

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<v Speaker 1>the father. That's a different issue. But can you give

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<v Speaker 1>any meat to the bones about simply this kid, this

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<v Speaker 1>fifteen year old shooting at a house in November. Why?

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<v Speaker 2>Pretty much because he's out of control. I mean, he

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<v Speaker 2>has more, he had more charges signed against him than

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<v Speaker 2>he has years on this earth. And you started with

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<v Speaker 2>stealing a car and running from the police. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>who didn't see that this pattern was going to escalate?

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<v Speaker 2>And then of course it leads to he's over in Norwood,

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<v Speaker 2>shoots at somebody, bullets go through a house, he gets

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<v Speaker 2>locked up for that, and then let's ride out. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>this is a pattern that we see all the time.

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<v Speaker 2>Kids start with your minor crimes, they're not held accountable,

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<v Speaker 2>and then what are they going to do. They're just

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<v Speaker 2>going to continue to escalate and escalate and escalate, and

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<v Speaker 2>that's what has been done in this situation.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you have some idea how old he was when

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<v Speaker 1>he first committed serious felonies. He's fifteen years old. Now

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<v Speaker 1>he's finally charged with murder. That might be plied down

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<v Speaker 1>at some point. Who knows if he's going to be

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<v Speaker 1>bound over that's another issue. But nonetheless, when did he

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<v Speaker 1>start his crime spree.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, they didn't start even charging him criminally until he

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<v Speaker 2>was thirteen, So between thirteen and fourteen, he's stealing cars,

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<v Speaker 2>you're committing felonies. And of course now it leads to

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<v Speaker 2>this this incident that I said, it just should not

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<v Speaker 2>have ever happened, never should have been there to be

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<v Speaker 2>able to do this.

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<v Speaker 1>So under thirteen. If you're like nine, ten or eleven

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<v Speaker 1>committing serious felonies, that doesn't even arise to the level

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<v Speaker 1>of arresting them. And what do you do with the

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<v Speaker 1>ten years?

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<v Speaker 2>What do you do with a ten year old? Well

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<v Speaker 2>that's the problem, you know, is there becomes the how

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<v Speaker 2>culpable is a nine or ten year old? And I

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<v Speaker 2>think every situation is different, you know, but what we're

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<v Speaker 2>seeing is it's not necessarily the nine, ten and eleven

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<v Speaker 2>year olds. They're they're acting out and they're showing behaviors

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<v Speaker 2>that are eventually going to be criminal, but it's typically

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<v Speaker 2>not until they're the twelve, thirteen, fourteen years is when

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<v Speaker 2>they when they really you know, have have their criminal

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<v Speaker 2>uh pursuit in.

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<v Speaker 1>High drives And in fact, Ken Kobert, we cannot give

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<v Speaker 1>out his name because that would be considered improper correct,

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<v Speaker 1>you can't say who it is. Yeah, that's unkind, that's

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<v Speaker 1>no good, that's unkind.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>Kyle Muhrick was simply at Short Vine. I've been there

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<v Speaker 1>once or twice by Bogarts. He was on cell phone.

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<v Speaker 1>The video seems to indicate that Kyle Murich was simply

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<v Speaker 1>enjoying a rare weather good night and he was simply

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<v Speaker 1>there on his phone and take us through the video

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<v Speaker 1>on what it showed.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, he's standing there clearly, whether it's checking a

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<v Speaker 2>text message or sending a text message, only to have

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<v Speaker 2>a gun shoved in his stomach. He immediately reacts, tries

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<v Speaker 2>to run away from the situation to get out of it,

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<v Speaker 2>and in the meantime he ends up getting shot a

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<v Speaker 2>couple times, and he ends up being able to retrieve

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<v Speaker 2>his legally owned firearm and return fire trying to defend himself.

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<v Speaker 1>And he didn't know it, but he was dead man walking.

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<v Speaker 1>He continued to run away a little bit until the

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<v Speaker 1>bullets took effect. And did this fifteen year old perpetrator?

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<v Speaker 1>Was he shot?

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<v Speaker 2>It's my understanding he did take a couple bullets.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, but he's doing okay.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he should be now at twenty twenty. Now how

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<v Speaker 2>long we don't know, but mind understanding. He's been released

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<v Speaker 2>from the hospital and he is in cuss at least

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<v Speaker 2>for the interim you know, over twenty twenty on Auburn Avenue.

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<v Speaker 1>And as you know, when you're seventeen years old, you

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<v Speaker 1>should be bound over as an adult. Committing adult crime

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<v Speaker 1>means adult time. But is there some question in your

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<v Speaker 1>mind whether the charge is going to be reduced we

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<v Speaker 1>have a brand new prosecutor, and whether he's actually going

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<v Speaker 1>to face adult time for these crimes or not.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, you know, it's interesting because we just had this

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<v Speaker 2>last summer of sixteen, seventeen year old kid that shot

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<v Speaker 2>at a policeman was charged as an adult, went through

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<v Speaker 2>the hearing through juvenile court and they denied it. So

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<v Speaker 2>I don't have a ton of hope that this kid's

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<v Speaker 2>going to get tried as an adult, because if you're

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<v Speaker 2>they're going to allow somebody to shoot at a policeman,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't. I don't have a whole lot of hope

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<v Speaker 2>that they're going to bind this kid over. They should,

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<v Speaker 2>but that's still yet to be seen.

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<v Speaker 1>And Judge Carrie Bloom remains the administrative judge and juvenile Court.

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<v Speaker 1>He's in charge of what happens. And I went through

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<v Speaker 1>this a long time with Melissa Powers and Joe Deeters

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<v Speaker 1>that if they're in or eighteen, they do not have

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<v Speaker 1>the power, the ability, the legalities to reach into juvenile

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<v Speaker 1>court and grab the case and put it in an adult

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<v Speaker 1>court is up to the juvenile court judge and if

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<v Speaker 1>the juvenile court Judge Carry Bloom does not want to

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<v Speaker 1>do it. And when you have a teenage boy shooting

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<v Speaker 1>at police, trying to murder police officers, the future likely

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<v Speaker 1>is not bright. And Judge Carrie Bloom in those cases

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<v Speaker 1>do not bind over.

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<v Speaker 2>Correct, That's correct? Yeah, Like I said, the juvenile court

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<v Speaker 2>has the sole discretion. They have a hearing. It's go

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<v Speaker 2>to bind overhearing where the prosecutor's office will present all

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<v Speaker 2>their evidence. They will argue why these kids have you

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<v Speaker 2>should be held responsible as adults for these heinous crimes.

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<v Speaker 2>But ultimately it falls on the juvenile court judge to

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<v Speaker 2>decide whether they want to allow that or not.

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<v Speaker 1>And in this case, is Judge Carrie Bloom going to

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<v Speaker 1>have this case again and again and again or is

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<v Speaker 1>she going to give it to someone else.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna see if that's going to happen. My understanding,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm waiting. I'm going to do some public record.

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<v Speaker 2>My understanding is that she either has or is going

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<v Speaker 2>to recuse herself in this case. But I've got to

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<v Speaker 2>going to do some records your quest to confirm that.

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<v Speaker 1>As far as the guy, the teenager, the teenage boy

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<v Speaker 1>that shot at the police. You know where he is now? Now,

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<v Speaker 1>this is attempted murder of a police officer. If successful,

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<v Speaker 1>we would have a Sunny Kim situation. But where is

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<v Speaker 1>the kid that shot at the cop who was not

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<v Speaker 1>bound over to adult court?

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<v Speaker 2>Do you know? I think it's still going through the process.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know whether he's locked up or not. I

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<v Speaker 2>know he was at the time last summer, but I

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<v Speaker 2>would be shocked if he was.

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<v Speaker 1>Still locked up, because you don't lock him up for

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<v Speaker 1>a year. You don't lock him up, You let him

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<v Speaker 1>go in an ankle monitor, which, as you know, is

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<v Speaker 1>not exactly much of a punishment. So that this is

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<v Speaker 1>a teenage boy who tried to murder an in uniform

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<v Speaker 1>Cincinnati police officer, and I would think the victim's got

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<v Speaker 1>to be notified. Is there any law that requires the

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<v Speaker 1>juvenile court system under Kerry Bloom to notify the police

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<v Speaker 1>officer that the guy, a teenage boy that tried to

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<v Speaker 1>murder him is now free.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's under Marcy's law they have to do some

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<v Speaker 2>of these things. But that's a whole other issue we've

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<v Speaker 2>discovered with Marcy's Law. But there's there's gonna be some

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<v Speaker 2>things going on. I sat on the Supreme Court headed

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<v Speaker 2>Juvenile Reform task force that I was part of, and

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<v Speaker 2>I think those recommendations are going to be in front

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<v Speaker 2>of the General Assembly here as soon as they get

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<v Speaker 2>done with the budget in the state and hopefully hold

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<v Speaker 2>these judges more accountable with certain things such as Marcy's.

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<v Speaker 1>Law and the other thing that the boy that shot

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<v Speaker 1>at the end uniform police officer did he have, I

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<v Speaker 1>assume made a previous record.

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<v Speaker 2>He was on a forty eight hour crime spree where

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<v Speaker 2>he committed twelve different Fallonty offenses, including armed robbery, carjacking.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, you name it was. That was a forty

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<v Speaker 2>eight hour period that all came to head when he

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<v Speaker 2>shot at a police officer.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's move on to Benjamin Addison was a twenty

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<v Speaker 1>one year old UC student who did everything right, had

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<v Speaker 1>go grades. He was a mentor to incoming freshman. He

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<v Speaker 1>worked one or two part time jobs to help his

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<v Speaker 1>parents pay for his education at UC. He's in Mount Auburn.

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<v Speaker 1>He sees the lights of his car on I think

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<v Speaker 1>it was a hun day. He's thinking, Okay, someone's going

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<v Speaker 1>to car jack me. He goes out and sadly he

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<v Speaker 1>confronts Justin Dugan at that point was seventeen years old.

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<v Speaker 1>And one thing led to another, and Benjin and Benjamin

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<v Speaker 1>Addison was murdered in cold blood in Mount Alburn, a

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<v Speaker 1>u SE student by Justin Dugan. We couldn't give out

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<v Speaker 1>his name until recently, and the powers that be in

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<v Speaker 1>how Many County Prosecutor's office decided to reduce the charges

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<v Speaker 1>against Justin Dugan the seventeen year old is now eighteen

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<v Speaker 1>years old, and to allow him to plead guilty to

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<v Speaker 1>lesser charges. And there was in a great sentence of

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<v Speaker 1>twenty one years as opposed to a murder which is

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<v Speaker 1>fifteen to life, and normally fifteen to life means basically.

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<v Speaker 2>What they're going to be there for life.

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<v Speaker 1>At least fifteen to life gives you a chance at

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<v Speaker 1>keeping him for a long time, I mean, especially with

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<v Speaker 1>a gun speck. But the powers would be in the

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<v Speaker 1>Prosecutor's office said, you know what, let's reduce the charges

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<v Speaker 1>on this. What's your feeling about that?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I've got two one. I mean, this is another

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<v Speaker 2>juvenile that committed just an absolute senseless crime for a

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<v Speaker 2>young man that had just a bright future ahead of him.

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<v Speaker 2>That's now gone because of these just out of control juveniles.

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<v Speaker 2>But without knowing all of the particulars of the case,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, he got sentenced to twenty one years.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know what conversation the prosecutor's office had with

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<v Speaker 2>the victims family with the police. You know, I'm glad

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<v Speaker 2>to see you got twenty one years, but yeah, of

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<v Speaker 2>course we would like to see him locked up forever. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>but you know, I heard some of the comments that

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<v Speaker 2>the prosecutor's office has made about you know, there's always

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<v Speaker 2>a risk, and there is a risk when you go

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<v Speaker 2>to trial. There's a risk that they get found not guilty.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a risk that there's a hung jury. But in

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<v Speaker 2>my case, in this case, and not knowing what the

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<v Speaker 2>victim's family thought, it's the victim's family wanted him to

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<v Speaker 2>go to life, you know, go to prison for life,

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<v Speaker 2>and that was the chance that they were willing to take,

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<v Speaker 2>and in my opinion, that's what they should have done.

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<v Speaker 2>But I don't know whether or not that conversation occurred.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, according to media accounts, County pillage To prosecutor held

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<v Speaker 1>a news conference and said that there's a risk of

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<v Speaker 1>going to trial, which is you might be found not guilty. Also,

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<v Speaker 1>lots of work to go through a trial, go through

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<v Speaker 1>the appeal. It's going to be a three to five

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<v Speaker 1>year process. But I spoke to a recent Hamley County

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<v Speaker 1>prosecutor who must go nameless, who said, in these cases,

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<v Speaker 1>when you have clear and convincing proof that the murder

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<v Speaker 1>took place, and you have the person that did it,

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<v Speaker 1>and you have overwhelming evidence that Dugan's responsible, the only

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<v Speaker 1>way to reduce charges would be if the family requested it.

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<v Speaker 1>If the mother and father of Benjamin Addison had said

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<v Speaker 1>in the prosecutor's off his look, we don't want to

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<v Speaker 1>go through the trial. We've suffered enough. We're willing to

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<v Speaker 1>take twenty one years as opposed to thirty five to

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<v Speaker 1>forty years because we want to put this behind us.

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<v Speaker 1>That's when you reduce the charge, because you want to

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<v Speaker 1>make sure he's in prison for a long time. But

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<v Speaker 1>that this former prosecutor said to me, you don't reduce

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<v Speaker 1>charges on a murder case arm robbery with this justin

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<v Speaker 1>Dugan character that's committed numerous offenses over his life, that

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<v Speaker 1>armed robbery was his business, when the family is adamantly

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<v Speaker 1>opposed to it. In fact, I can recall the sobbing

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<v Speaker 1>of his father thinking that this kid's going to be

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<v Speaker 1>out of jail and when he's thirty seven or thirty

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<v Speaker 1>eight years old, and the animal that crawls out of

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<v Speaker 1>Lucasville and when he's thirty seven thirty eight years old

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<v Speaker 1>is not going to be a rhad scholar. He's going

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<v Speaker 1>to go back to the business that he knew. So

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<v Speaker 1>this former prosecutor said to me, you don't reduce charges

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<v Speaker 1>when the family's adamant against it. You have a clear case,

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<v Speaker 1>and you risk it times you're you don't roll the dice.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe in today's world you rolled the dice. But to

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<v Speaker 1>have twelve jurors from Hamlety County finding Justin Dugan not

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<v Speaker 1>guilty of this case when the evidence is overwhelming of

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<v Speaker 1>guilt is ridiculous. It is what this former prosecutor told me.

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<v Speaker 1>Do I make any sense to you?

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely? You know, if you got you got a victim

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<v Speaker 2>family saying no, we want to go to trial, we

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<v Speaker 2>want him to be held accountable for as long as

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<v Speaker 2>he can, then that's what you have to do, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>And the one thing that struck me as odd that

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<v Speaker 2>you said was you know that the prosecutor's office said, well,

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<v Speaker 2>you know this, this is a lot of time and

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of work. Yeah, I don't think you can

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<v Speaker 2>put I don't think you can put a value on

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<v Speaker 2>time or work for a victim's family that has had

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<v Speaker 2>to suffer the loss that the Addison family has had

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<v Speaker 2>to suffer.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, there's a new prosecutor in town now. Lastly, this morning,

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<v Speaker 1>Scott Sloan had on a council member, Scotty Johnson. And

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<v Speaker 1>Scotty Johnson I have respect for him because he's a

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<v Speaker 1>police officer on council now, spent like twenty five or

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<v Speaker 1>thirty years, and Scotty Johnson has a few lucid moments

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<v Speaker 1>these days. He is a liberal Democrat, not a lot,

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<v Speaker 1>but I still respect him because of his service to

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<v Speaker 1>the city. And he made the comments that at these

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<v Speaker 1>youth football games in which shootings take place, that the

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<v Speaker 1>core of that are the fathers, so to speak, of

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<v Speaker 1>these nine year old boys in uniform betting three to

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<v Speaker 1>five thousand dollars on the outcome of games. And I'm

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<v Speaker 1>listening to this and I'm thinking of youth football leagues

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<v Speaker 1>shots fired. I think one was at Wanning Hills High

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<v Speaker 1>School and others in which the father's on the sideline,

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<v Speaker 1>like rolling dice betting on their son's football scores. And

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<v Speaker 1>I'm thinking, well, at least his father's involvement in the

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<v Speaker 1>kid's life, which often doesn't happen today. But this is

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<v Speaker 1>the wrong kind of involvement. If we got to a

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<v Speaker 1>point now, Ken Kober of the FOP, when we have

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<v Speaker 1>to have metal detectors and armed police officers are youth

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<v Speaker 1>football games to keep the shootings to a minimum.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, that's the unfortunate reality. And you wonder

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<v Speaker 2>what these it's turned fourteen or fifteen, where they get

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<v Speaker 2>it from. They get it from their parents, they see.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, this is a perfect example of this kind

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<v Speaker 2>of nonsense that's going on that leads to violence. I

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<v Speaker 2>remember several years ago there was a shooting at a

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<v Speaker 2>peace Bowl where kids were playing youth football in Avondale,

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<v Speaker 2>trying to advocate for peace, and there was a shooting.

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<v Speaker 2>The society has just gone terribly wrong.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know how we correct it. You have a

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<v Speaker 1>juvenile court judge in the system that want to hold

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<v Speaker 1>vicious criminals accountable. We have a new prosecutor's office that

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<v Speaker 1>breaks down the charges of murderers. And now we have

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<v Speaker 1>a city council and we're talking about metal detectors at

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<v Speaker 1>nine year old football games and it's April.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, we had a ballwark against this kind of

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<v Speaker 1>stuff when you had a prosecutor's office said not on

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<v Speaker 1>my watch. And sometimes this former prosecutor said to me,

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<v Speaker 1>you got to try the case. You got to say, well,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, we might lose, but I'd rather have justice delayed.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll catch them the next time on a hung jerry,

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<v Speaker 1>We'll try them again, but we're not going to reduce

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<v Speaker 1>charges just to save us a lot of work when

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<v Speaker 1>the family is adamant against it, and be Benjamin Addison

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<v Speaker 1>is dead and Justin dug is going to be walking

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<v Speaker 1>around our community in the next seventeen or eighteen years.

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<v Speaker 1>You get ten to fifteen percent good time, so he'll

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<v Speaker 1>be out in seventeen or eighteen years, and the Addison

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<v Speaker 1>family is devastated. To me, that's not justice. Well, Ken Kober,

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<v Speaker 1>let's keep the lines of communication open and we get

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<v Speaker 1>we have the government we deserve, and your vote makes

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<v Speaker 1>a difference. And when this stuff goes on, if people

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<v Speaker 1>keep electing Judge Carry Bloom and juvenile court who is

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<v Speaker 1>a liberal social activist with a black robe on freeing

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<v Speaker 1>these murderers and criminals and rapists to commit more crime.

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<v Speaker 1>I can recall she released a fifteen year old boy

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<v Speaker 1>who raped a thirteen year old boy because he had

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<v Speaker 1>to get some counseling. That the rapists had to get

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<v Speaker 1>some counseling and had to write a book report saying

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<v Speaker 1>how sorry he was raping a thirteen year old boy

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<v Speaker 1>by a fifteen year old boy. And that's where we are.

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<v Speaker 1>But once again, Ken Cober, thanks for coming on and

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<v Speaker 1>continues to have a good Friday and we'll see what

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<v Speaker 1>happens down the road. And Ken Kober, who's the CEO

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<v Speaker 1>of the FOP, thanks for coming on the Bill Cunningham Show.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you again.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, thanks for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>Bill, have a good weekend. God bless you. We have

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<v Speaker 1>the government we deserve. Bill Cunningham News Radio seven hundred

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<v Speaker 1>WULW