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Dogmanencounters dot com forward slash podcast. Everyone, thanks again so
much for joining us for another livestream episode of Dogman
Encounters Radio. Really appreciate you joining us. For tonight's show,
We're going to bring on an investigator who not only
researches dog men, but he's been investigating sasquatch for years
and years too thirty to be more exact, for both
dog men and Sasquatch. Well, on tonight's show, you're gonna
hear about several of the encounters he's had with dog
men and an encounter you had with a googway. Unfortunately. Now,
if you're wondering what a gugway googway is, don't fret
because I'm going to have them explain to you what
a googway a gugway, however you want to pronounce it is.
So like I said, don't sweat that. Well, having said
all that, without any further ado, let's bring him in
here now. Tonight's guest is Thomas Thomas. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Vic, glad to be here.
Speaker 1: Well, it's great having you. I really like to mix
things up. I don't like to go for too long
of a scretch where it's nothing but just normal eyewitnesses. Tom,
I like to from time to time bring investigators in
and bring other guests onto to kind of mix things up,
but still focused on dog men, but just to kind
of mix it up. So to be able to bring
you on tonight, I think we're kind of overdue for
bringing an investigator on, especially a well tenured investigator such
as yourself. So yeah, for me, I think it's pretty
much perfect timing. Thank you, Well, you're welcome. Well, Tom,
please give us a brief bio in yourself.
Speaker 2: Myself is I'm a former military policeman in the United
States Army for thirteen years, done two tours in the Sandbox,
and also was a correctional officer for many years in
Tennessee and Kentucky, and you know, went in a private
as a private security contractor, and now I am currently retired.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for your service to our country.
Thank you, We welcome. Yeah, we definitely appreciate it. When
you're out investigating in field. What kinds of things do
you take from that training from the military and use
out in the field when you investigate cryptids.
Speaker 2: Well, my observation skills are learning what to look for,
knowing how to track. It's just a matter of page.
Just really is just paying attention in tuning in into
your environment.
Speaker 1: That's always a good thing to do when you're out there.
I wish more people did that. Now, you've been investigating
dogmen and sasquatch for thirty years now, I'm wondering, though, Tom,
which one of you put more investigations into. Which one
have you focused on more?
Speaker 2: Well? I focused more on a sasquatch because of an
encounter I had when I was in cub Scouts down
in Florida. When one e mean as were dinner was
being prepared, he had a skunk cape run through our camp.
Speaker 1: Wow, would you mind telling us the story behind that?
Speaker 2: And a friend of mine, fellow scout whose family was
very familiar with let me. He told me what it was.
I was just kind of stunned, like, what was that?
And it got me going down the rabbit hole, so
to speak.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a slippery slope, isn't It never ends? Yeah, definitely,
researching dog men as long as you have tom how
much of a risk do you see them as posing
to your safety when you're in the woods.
Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing that I can tell people. There's
certain things you don't do when you go into the woods.
You go in with respect and be humble. That is
their home. Never wear the color red because that's like
a red flag to a bull where Always wear earth
tone type colors if you see one, Be calm, Do
not under any circumstances run because they will consider you
a prey item. If they want you to leave, they
will give you a warning to leave, just like a
wolf will. They will growl at you. Their big thing
is they like to terrorize you. They like to bully you.
They want to see what your reaction is going to be.
But if you're leaving, don't ever turn your back on them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that sounds like really good advice. It does. You
know how to find sasquatch hotspots by looking for certain
features on maps, from what I understand, But does the
same thing hold true with dog men when it comes here.
Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing is, this is one thing that
I've learned vic over the years that dog man and
sasquatch do sate do share the same areas and territories
so pretty much. But the thing is with them is
they like to avoid each other.
Speaker 1: I tell people all the time that normally they seem
to mix like oil and water. What do you make
of the cases? Though incredible eyewitnesses report seeing them together,
it doesn't seem to happen very often. But I've had
some very credible ones report that.
Speaker 2: There's my theory on it. I think you know, and
they I have heard the same reports where they've run together.
My thing is is it would not surprise me if
sasquatch steals the pups and then ray themselves. That's the
only way I could see them running together.
Speaker 1: So guard dogs in pretty much, well, can you imagine
a guard dog man? Holy cown.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wouldn't mind having one, as.
Speaker 1: Long as it doesn't turn on its owner exactly. Yeah,
that wouldn't be pretty at all.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I know that you have strong opinions about people who
say they want to have a dog man encounter? What
more can you tell us about that?
Speaker 2: So you don't And I asked people, if do you
you'd really want to? Because if you do, you've never
seen one or any type of cryptid. It will completely
change your life. Everything you've ever thought, never believed in
will come crashing down.
Speaker 1: That's really good advice. It always gets me tom when
I hear people say that they want to have a
dog man encounter who because the things that they say
tell me that there's a good chance they really don't
have any business going off into the woods by themselves,
even if they don't have any encounter with a dog man.
It just makes it hearing my butt stand up when
I think about what would happen to them if they
did go into the woods and happen to bump into one.
Speaker 2: Well, there's what I'll tell everybody. And this is one
of my go to guys is Nick Flenney from the
North American dog Man Project. He's my go to guy
when I have questions myself. And but you need to
go into woods at least minimum of three people. You
go by yourself, you're just asking to become something's dinner.
Speaker 1: Yeah. That doesn't give you the warm and fuzzies, does it?
Speaker 2: No, it doesn't end. One thing is I tell people,
if you are out of the woods, start looking in
the trees because these things like to go from tree
top to tree top.
Speaker 1: You know it is most people in the woods, they're
looking down at their feet so they don't trip, so
they miss all sorts of things above their heads.
Speaker 2: Exactly. They need to learn how to step, how to
walk in the woods. You got to feel the ground.
Speaker 1: I could be wrong, but I think that's why so
many people get lost in the woods. They don't pay
attention to what's around them, and before they know it,
they're turned around and lost.
Speaker 2: Happens every day, and there's a lot of strange disappearances too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that there are all right, Tom, Please tell us
about your dog me and encounters. Now, give us every
last detail that comes to mind.
Speaker 2: Well, I have two that are really prevalent. And the
first one was in state park here southern Indiana where
I live in Indiana now. A former research partner and
I are out there with a couple other people setting
up camera. I'm looking for Bigfoot, and I'm sitting at
the picnic table, just kind of you know, relaxing, chilling,
and I see the set of amber eyes stared at me.
So I'm watching it.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: All of a sudden, I says, start see him going
up up, up at least eight feet. I'm like, okay, well,
there's things moving around, and it showed itself, and it
showed itself. There was enough I could make out what
it was. It looked at me for a minute. I
looked at it for a minute. It dropped back down
to all fours and it left in a loud manner.
You could tell it was heavy. Well, my research partner
at the time looked at me because what was that.
I looked at him and said, you don't want to know,
but I'll tell you this. It reminded me of the
werewolf from Van helsing. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Uh oh, that's not good. Someone's not happy. Yeah, whenever
you're ready, please continue.
Speaker 2: Uh. My other one was in land between the lakes
last April and I was with two other people. I
was down in the Devil's Backbone on the Tennessee side
and got understand, devil backbone, you have your trail is
only like maybe four feet across and it's like three
hundred foot vertical and props on each side. Well, we
were being a trail. We heard it was trailing down
the creek and we're like okay, And then the weird
thing is we saw branches snapped off that were snapped
off on the way yet, so it was being trailed.
A few minutes later, there was some brush that was
growing alongside the trail. It came up the rock face
behind this bush and it was growling. You could see
the years, the big point years, and it was just
moving back and forth. And I yelled at it and
told it, you don't want to come out behind us
those bushes. It got the message and it discoveried on
down to the creek. But it continued to follow us out.
But the strange thing was as we were getting tree
knocks like every sixty seconds on either side, and which
were bigfoot tree ducks. Well, as soon as it heard
the tree knocks going off, it departed the area.
Speaker 1: Well, that's good that it left the area. After having
all these experiences, though, Tom, do you still feel a
lot of angst whenever you find yourself in the presence
of a dog man? Or is it almost old hat
to the point where you're pretty cool, calm and collectedness
of the time.
Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing. I don't fear them. I respect them.
I respect with what they're capable of doing. And the
problem with them is their unpredictability. You don't know what
they're going to do. And another thing is if you
see one, there's at least two others because they like
to come in on you on the flanks. And I knew,
I knew a person here that doesn't lift far from me,
that got terrorized by these things for about two hours
when they didn't take the message to leave the area,
and they based pretty much surrounded him and were growling
at him and throwing stuff at him and just basically
terrorizing them until they decided to let them leave. And
this individual hasn't been back in the woods since.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I bet that did frighten them out of the woods.
I'm asked all the time, Tom, what the best way
is to handle a dog man encounter? If you're out
in the woods for whatever reason and all of a
sudden come to realize you've got a dog man close
to you, how do I handle that? Vic? Well, what
advice would you give someone in a case like that?
Speaker 2: Back out of the area slowly? I mean, if you
feel a need to defend yourself, there's numerous things you
can use. As one, bear spray works a high decibel
whistle above one hundred and forty five decibels. If it's
night strobe lights work if you carry a firearm loaded
with hardcast or solid copper rounds and the biggest caliber
you can handle. That don't use a fireman only as
a last resort.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's good advice. I guess I should take this
opportunity to put a word in from a new dogman podcast.
It's called dog meon Tails. If you didn't happen to know,
every Friday night in i PM Eastern Time, I hear
a new episod of it. So if you didn't know
about it, recommend you check it out. Please do me
a favor and tell the people who don't know what
a gugway is give them the four one one.
Speaker 2: A gugway is is a type of sasquatch that is, basically,
you just imagine an upright walking baboon on steroids.
Speaker 1: They can have different looks and all. Some people think
that all gugway looked the same way, but they can
have varying looks to them the same way that sasquatch
can and dog men can.
Speaker 2: Yes, but they're always with a pronounced snout.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna ask you in just a bit here to
tell us about your gugway encounter. But Before I do that,
can you describe what the gugway that you bumped into
look like.
Speaker 2: He was solid black, the eyes were red. It had
a pronounce now and look like I said, look very bad,
boon like.
Speaker 1: And he was big.
Speaker 2: He was built like an NFL linebacker.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's scary. Before I ask you to tell us
about your encounter, I should probably put this out there.
When it comes to gugway, some people call them type threes.
They're probably a lot of people listening who've heard the
term type three, but maybe not gugway or vice versa. Well,
understand that a lot of people in the South, if
you say the term dog man, they think of what
a lot of people call a gugway. They think of
a cryptid that's got pomined style legs with its heels
on the ground and knees instead of stifled joints. Perfect
example here to illustrate my point. This was years ago,
probably eight or nine years ago, not too long after
I started during episodes of dog Man encounters here, I
was listening to a podcast late one night, couldn't sleep,
I had just gotten done working, and I just put
this podcast episode on and as it turned out, Hawk
Spearman was a guest on it. No, I take that back.
I think Linda Godfrey was the main guest and about
halfway through the show when I forgot what podcast it was.
But about halfway through the show when the host started
taking call ins. Hawk Spearman, a well known sasquatch in
dogman researcher. He called in to basically have it out
in a way. He was civil about it, but he
took exception to the description that Linda Godfrey put out
there describing what a dog man looked like. And naturally
she described when she was asked to tell what a
dog man looked like, she described what a canine type
dog man looked like, the most common type that people
know with the knits dial legs. They have hawks instead
of ankles, they have stifled joints instead of knees. Well,
Hawk called in. He wasn't happy about her describing dogmen
as looking that way. He said, no, they look like
and then he went on to describe a type three
a gugway. That just illustrates my point that a lot
of people in the South like Hawk. Unfortunately he's passed away,
but that just illustrates my point that a lot of
people in the South. If you say the term dog man,
they think of a gugway, not a canon type dog man.
So I just want to put that out there.
Speaker 2: I can explain that. Please, do you have different type
of dogmen? Okay, what Hawk was describing, he was dealing
with a werewolf or alike in type, and those my
research partner Neil, who is on the show, we were
researching at his house last October and we caught a
werewolf on thermal and its ears were not on top
of its head, but more to the side of the
head than they were really long, and it was at
least i'd say nine to ten foot weigh at least
six hundred pounds. And when we're watching this thing walk
the bigfoot that frequents his property, they started screaming, and
when the bigfoot started screaming, they took off the dog
the werewolf took off. That is the first werewolf I
have ever seen, and that's the last one I hope
to ever see.
Speaker 1: When you call it a were wolf, do you mean
a conventional wear wolf where it's a person that transformed
into that.
Speaker 2: No, it's what it what it looks like, because like
it's hockey is it walks like us, it's bipedal like us.
It doesn't have the hawks. It has the same lower
body structure as we do. But it's got a giant
wolf's head on it, and it's like huge man. People
have mistooked have mistaken them for Gugway. Gugway's complete is
completely different because that Gugwey they have the small leaders
like a bigfoot. Their snout is more more like a baboon.
The eye color of Gugway is red reflection, where a
dog man were wolf is generally it's uh, it's a.
Speaker 1: Have you seen the subject in the photo called the
Beast of seven Shoots? Yes. From the way you describe
what you saw that night, it sounds like you're describing
the subject in that photo. Are you pretty much the
one carrying the dog carrying somebody's dog, because that's what
the that's what they look like. But sometimes the coloration
is govern. The one I saw at all black didn't
have any of the coloration to it. A lot of
people describe the subject in that photo the Beast of
seven Shoots. I should probably clarify this. Anyone listening who
hasn't seen the photo of the Beast of seven Shoots.
If you do a Google search in spell shoots hu
Tes the Beast of Seven Shoots, that photo will pop up.
And the dog that's in it's r And when you
do see the photo, it seems like that's a pretty
good sized dog from what I understand, And I think
that dog is facing backwards that it's holding like a
football in its arm. That'll probably give you a good well,
it might or might not give you a good idea
about the scale of the subject in that photo. But
if you haven't seen that photo, I do recommend you
check it out. It'll blow your hairback, it really will.
Now a lot of people tom when they see that
subject in that photo, they say, Aha, well, that's what
a Type three looks like. That's what a gugway looks like.
It seems like in this whole cryptid field, there's so
much tomato tomato, it's hard to really understand what people
are talking about. In a lot of instances.
Speaker 2: I agree, because there's a I mean, just like humans,
you know which different races, it's the same thing with
these things. They have evolved strictly to their environment. I mean,
the ones in the South are a lot smaller than
the ones in the Pacific Northwest, which they're huge, which
they have to be because they're dealing with mountains. They
got to be as big as they are. Ones in
the South they don't have that problem.
Speaker 1: The one that you saw that you describe as being
a werewolf, if it looked like the subject in that photo,
the Beast of Seven shoots, that one in that photo
looked like it was almost standing straight up and down.
It didn't seem to have much at all of a
bind to its knees or anything like that. Is that
how the one that you saw, the werewolf you saw
looked or did it have a pronounced bind to its knees?
It was like us.
Speaker 2: It was very It was very human, I mean the
way it was welcome, but it was just it was
a in the thermall you could just tell. It was
just massive. And like I said, the ears are different
because the NISA seven shoots, if you look at the head,
they have the small ears like a bigfoot.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I didn't even think about that. Yeah, that
subject series aren't very big like what you described on
the one you saw. That's good that you pointed that out. Yes,
that is if you had your drouthers, if you had
to have an encounter with one or the other. Would
you rather have an encounter with a werewolf or a
Gugway or a dog man A can I type dog man.
Speaker 2: Probably probably a Gugway, because the simple fact is Ugway
they're highly intelligent and if they see they're kind of
lazy because they don't like to really work for their food.
But if they see a human as armed, they will
back off you. But with that being said, you better
watch your back, you better watch your six because they
will come back around you and wait for until you
make a mistake and not paying attention. I'm going to
try to catch you off guard, but if your arm
are not going to come right at you.
Speaker 1: I've got my own opinions about this, Tom, but I
want to ask you, if we're wolf, if a Gugway,
if a canon type dog man has it in for you,
and you're in the woods in your armed do you
think you can effectively protect yourself even if they have
it in for you or not?
Speaker 2: Well, if all depends on what you All depends on
what you are carrying at the time. Because one thing
people have got to understand, these things are incredibly fast.
I mean, they're faster than a bigfoot, and if they
come straight at you, you're done.
Speaker 1: It's one thing they have to contend with something that
is fast, but limited to the kind of speeds that
that most creatures are. But when you're talking about something
that's cartoon fast, like what Tom's talking about right now,
you don't have eyes in the back of your head.
So if it really has it in for you like
he's laying out, I just don't see how you could
possibly protect yourself from it. I really don't.
Speaker 2: I mean you like you, like I said, you have
to go with three or more people, then you're going
to stand a chance. But by yourself. No.
Speaker 1: So many people, and I'm going to ask you about
this and just setting it up. So many people overestimate
the safety a gun. Having a gun on them brings
to them in the woods. They think that that's almost
like a magic shield that makes them absolutely proof nothing
can harm me. That really sticks to my craw. Do
you get frustrated when you hear people talk like just
by having a gun on them that they can't be
harmed out there?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that kind of does, because to me, that's just
an ignorant way to think it'll get you killed.
Speaker 1: That's a really good point. I should probably put this
out there too. One of the reasons why I take
such a stance on on having a gun out there
in the woods, if you wind up having a dog
man encounter, how that can actually add to the danger.
Is it touches on what time just laid out for you.
So many people, if they do have a gun in
their hands or on their person, they're more likely to
do things because of overconfidence and the ability of that
weapon to protect them. They're much more likely to do
things that will get them killed that they wouldn't even
think about trying to do if they didn't have that
gun with them. I'm not the anti gun, not anti
gun at all. I've had tons of them in my time,
but still do. But I'm talking about a situation where
be careful. Don't put yourself into a situation where you're
going to increase the odds of you being ended out
there in the woods because you're overestimating the ability of
a weapon to save your butt if you find things
go sideways. So that's why I take that stance on that. Now, Tom,
I know you know about the appellation face eater. When
people talk about face eaters. Are they talking about were
wolves or a Gugway?
Speaker 2: Uh, A're probably talking about They're probably talking about the
Gugway more than likelier than not. I've never I've never
actually invested say that youth investigated it. But I do
know along the appellation there have been cases of bigfoot,
uh taking hikers, a lot of strange disappearances out there.
Speaker 1: That there are way too many. If you had to
put a finger on it, and guess of the three,
I guess I should say four. Now dog men talking
about canine type dog men. Whenever I say the term
dog men, dog me in we're wolf, Gugway, Sasquatch. Of
all these people who go missing in the woods around
the country, around the world, which one do you think
is the most common defender for that?
Speaker 2: Probably I would say a sasquatch.
Speaker 1: Really, why is that?
Speaker 2: Uh? I think because sasquatches are more they're they're opportunistic.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: Well, depends on the area that you're in, but it could,
I mean, it could be pretty evenly matched. I Mean,
I don't think anybody really knows, to be honest with you,
but you know, I've had regular reports where there's been
a lot of Sasquatch sightings along the Appalachian Trail. Dog
men I haven't heard so much because, like I said,
they do they each have their own territories, but also
sometimes their territories will overlap.
Speaker 1: I'm sure that makes it really interesting. Having overlapping overlapping
territories like that, you would have to a lot of
people do seem to go missing on the Appalachian Trail.
So in that country there is perfect for all these cryptids.
So probably.
Speaker 2: I mean they've been sighted in every state. I mean
areas in Indiana. Go down to the Hoosier National Forest. Uh,
it's like dog Man Central down there.
Speaker 1: How far have you gone from home to investigate dog men?
Can I type dog men?
Speaker 2: I've done with them in seven hours? Seven eight hours.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a pretty good trip right there. Do you
have any places that you still want to go that
are still in your bucket list to investigate them?
Speaker 2: Well, my research partner and I sometime we're going to
be going to a place called Potato Creek State Park.
We've been getting a lot of reports, been getting a
lot of reports out of their dog man reports. But
I want to get into the get into the who's
your National Forest? More in southern Indiana.
Speaker 1: You talk about a holiday in for these guys, they
really have a great place to run around there. Oh yeah,
they would. Well, I'll tell you what to stay on
top of things here, Tom, I want to ask some
questions from the live chat that they want me to
throw at you. The first one I want to put
out there is from low Man one oh one. He
wants to know do you believe dog men are the
result of I think he means Googway, Gugway, Sasquatch inter breeding.
Speaker 2: No, these things go way back, all the way back
to Egypt where with Annibus and with the Native Americans
I have spoken to in which they call them the
wolf people. They said they have always been here. Because
you're dealing like Google and sasquatch, that would be kind
of a scary combination. But they're both type of bigfoots.
So of course your DNA is going to be different
from a canine.
Speaker 1: I've got a two part question here for you. This
is my question. I don't want to put words into
your mouth there, Tom, but I take it it's my
guess that the Native Americans that you've been speaking with
about this, do they know that you go out there
into the field intentionally trying to seek out encounters with
dog men. And part two of the question is if
they do, what do they seem to think about that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, they do know what they say is not a
very good idea.
Speaker 1: I'll bet they say that. Yeah, I don't doubt that
at all. I've got another question for you from Caleb Gates.
Caleb wants to know if they share territories. Do you
think they have every I think he means have they
ever enter bred? I've seen some weird creatures.
Speaker 2: Well, like I, like I said before, h K Love,
you're dealing with the bigfoot, which are hormitds, which are
you know, probably closely related to us. What dog man
is strictly, it's a pretty much it's an upright walking canine.
So the inner breeding no.
Speaker 1: One of the most common rebuttals. It seems like when
you start talking about dog men around people who just
aren't having it. They just will not accept the fact
that they're out there. Is there isn't any fossil record
of these guys out there? What's your take on that
they bury?
Speaker 2: They're dead, just like bigfoot do. That's why we haven't
found haven't found anything?
Speaker 1: If you say that to some of these skeptics will say, okay, well,
as far as Sasquatch go, you've got Gigantopithecus fossils. There's
only been one fossil, a tooth that's been found, I
think part of the lower jawbone. But we don't know
that Gigantopithecus was a sasquatch. If someone came back at
you with that retort, what would your response be.
Speaker 2: I would tell them Giganto was an ape. Sasquatch isn't
because of the because of the mitochondrial DNA from the mother.
I believe what sasquatches is an ancient type homitid that evolved.
That is one we haven't even found yet. They don't
even know what it is. I mean, the DNA they
get it, they go like unknown unknown primate. People said, oh,
they're a monkey. Noans are private.
Speaker 1: Just imagine. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: I think these things have been around for millions of years,
and and I think our government knows about them. They
know what they are, but they're just not going to
divulge it.
Speaker 1: Oh, of course, not imagine what happened if at a
dig if all of a sudden, the bones of and
it's not a guess. It's clearly the skeleton of a
dog man, a can I type dog man showed up,
or the skeleton of a gugway or like you call them,
a werewolf showed up in a dig. Imagine how the
government would be scrambling in to cover all that up.
It'd be ugly.
Speaker 2: Okay, I got one for you here, Vic, and I'll
tell anybody to do this. Look at the Fort Lewis, Washington,
United States Army Wildlife Manual. He will find bigfoot in it.
I'll let you all think about that one.
Speaker 1: I've found out about that, and I really don't know
what to think about that. I mean, the government is
so careful about things like this, how could they allow
that to ever be? I mean, that's just mind blowing.
What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2: Well, just recently, I think a couple of years ago,
the Ohio Department of Natural Resources have acknowledged the existence
of sasquatch and they even put out a video about it.
Speaker 1: Is it your opinion that, just like the government, seems
to be kind of somewhat if you could call it
that opening up when it comes to UFOs, do you
think the same thing's holding true for cryptids like sasquatch
and dogmen.
Speaker 2: Now, yes, because they know that, because they know it's
a matter of time, because they can't hide it anymore.
And my personal opinion, what they're going to do is
introduce it to the public slowly. You're not going to
hit the masses all at once. Whether they're going to
do it and you know, a systematic manner or kind
of like ease people into it.
Speaker 1: Well, by and large, the general public is so close minded.
I can only imagine all the difficulty that the government
would have getting them to warm up to the fact
that these things are out there. That would not be pretty.
Speaker 2: No, you would see you probably end up seeing your
national parks and state parks closed because people would refuse
to go to them exactly.
Speaker 1: You know, when people ask me why I say that
the government's not going to allow them to be officially acknowledged,
I tell them, we'll think about what would happen, the
calamity that would happen if they did let that cat
out of the bag. No one's going to want to
live around a forest, Steven when they hear that, guess
what in a forest near you just might have something
looks like a giant werewolf. So yeah, I think society
would just collapse around her ears. I really do.
Speaker 2: Now, just imagine vic they're going to have to turn
around and rewrite all the history books.
Speaker 1: Oh, they don't want to do that.
Speaker 2: Exactly.
Speaker 1: So many other things too that they wouldn't want to do.
It'd be really ugly. It would truly be a morass. Now,
you had an interesting conversation with a woman who had
some pretty interesting news to share with you about I'll
just see a pack of dogmen that she used to
interact with when she was young. Please tell us the
story behind that she was.
Speaker 2: She's from Michigan near the up and she to me
as a child that she grew up with them, and
she was attacked by another was about to be attacked
by another dog man type preacher, and the pact that
was on the land, it always protected her, intervened on
her behalf kept her from getting killed. But she explained
to me, she goes ten miles down the road, there
was a pack that was soon as killed a human
being as look at him. Now. The thing is, I
will tell people, these are unpredictable. You've got to learn
to learn how to read their intent. They start really
showing their teeth all of it, and their ears are
starting to flatten back. You got to problem.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that definitely wouldn't be pretty to see. It's so
hard to think for these things. There have been a
lot of eyewitnesses I've spoken with who witness that happen
and they were caught dead nuts to right spy a
canline type dogman, but allowed to leave without a single scratch.
What's your take on that.
Speaker 2: They were just doing it just to terrorize them and
bully them. It's what they like to do. You can't
have to stand up to them and tell them they
understand what you're saying. You tell them, no, I'm not
going to put up with your your garbage. You know,
you're probably just gonna sit there and look at you
like you're like, okay, this humans not showing fear to me.
I wonder what, because you're going to be doing something
that they're not expecting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guarantee they've never seen anyone do that before.
Stand up to them and not be extremely fearful. They
probably wouldn't know what to think about that.
Speaker 2: No, you just can't.
Speaker 1: You can't.
Speaker 2: You just can't. You know, you know they're big and
they're scary and they try to be intimidated. But you know,
don't give in to the fear. I mean it's easier
said than doing, but you have to force yourself up,
you know, stand your ground and say look i'm you know,
or say I am leaving and back out. I mean,
I have the attitude that's like when I leave the woods,
it's like I will leave on my own. I'm not
going to be run out if that makes sense.
Speaker 1: As you know, for a lot of people not running
that is a huge ask. But yeah, if you want
to walk out of there one piece, if you want
to leave the woods one piece, it's vitally important that
you don't make that mistake.
Speaker 2: You just walk. You walk back the exact the same
way you came in. I mean, don't be going slowly,
you know, move with a purpose, but don't run. I mean, yeah,
they will flank you, they will follow you out.
Speaker 1: Ignore it. That sounds like really good advice. I've got
to have a question for you from the live chat
from Keleb Gates, and Keileb wants to know how many
dog men are there in your area?
Speaker 2: Thomas, Well, my research area is like a hal hour
and a half from where imp but uh where I
live at here in Lafayat. We have a place it's
called Wildcat Creek. Well, it was a few miles from me.
I have investigated those woods along the creek. I have
found sasquatch footprints. It would not surprise me if there's
a few of them probably around. I haven't seen any.
But it's the right type of environment. I'll put it
to you like that or to be here.
Speaker 1: It's obvious here one cool, calm, customary investigator out there
in the forest.
Speaker 2: Tom.
Speaker 1: But if you go out on an investigation and bump
into a dog man, a can I type dog man,
you've done it several times, multiple times, do you still
lay in bed that night and you're gobsmacked to the
point where you can't sleep? Or is sleep not a
problem because this whole thing is so old hat for you.
Speaker 2: I sleep just fine. But you know, I mean, I'm
not gonna lie. I mean there's been times that I
have been afraid. You know who wouldn't. But the thing
is about fear. You've got to learn to control that.
You don't let it control you.
Speaker 1: That's really good advice, of course, easier said than done,
because a lot of people have better control. Some people
have better control over their fears than others. But you
just have to make that attempt to do that. That
does sound like really good advice. I've got a great
question for you here from mx VT, and they want
to know does the dog man talking about a K
nine type dog man? Of course? Does the dog man
have a natural predator? Well, I have her, I have her.
Speaker 2: Accounts where dog men didn't have bigfoot have fought or
they do will fight each other, but pre date, but
predation on each other. No, as a natural predator, I
probably not. I mean, what predator in North America would
want to go up against eight to ten foot tall werewolf.
Speaker 1: That's a really good point.
Speaker 2: A bigfoot, a bigfoot would No, you know, you know
whatever the outcool will be on that. But but try
to prey on it. No, I don't see it just
like a bigfoot. It's not gonna there's nothing in North
America's that it's gonna.
Speaker 1: Pray on it. Some people have put it out through
the dog men not only possibly bury they're dead, but
eat their dead. I know you said that they do
bury they're dead, but do you think they ever eat
their dead.
Speaker 2: I've heard sasquatches doing it. I don't see why they wouldn't.
Speaker 1: That does make sense. I've got another one for you
from Keleb. He wants to know, Vic asks Thomas what
kind of food they like?
Speaker 2: You know, if you got in the woods, I'm just
gonna be funny, Just bring some milk bones out with you.
Speaker 1: He had not a good idea, especially if one decides
to try to take one out of your hand. That
actually happened. I can't remember if that eyewitness came on
the show or not, but this guy was sitting around
the campfire and this dog man came up and just
stared him down. He was cooking wienies over the fire,
had to stick through the wienies and was just roasting them.
Dog man came up, walked up like he owned the joint.
Well he did own the joint, but this dog man
just boldly walked up, steering him down, reached out and
took the hot dog off of the stick. He was
roasting that hot dog over the fire on and just
pulled that hot dog off of the stick and just
ate it right in front of him, steering him down.
What are you going to do? Can you imagine exactly.
Speaker 2: But it's like it's just like, hey, what another one?
Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty much, here's the whole pack.
Speaker 2: Yeah, here's an old pack. It's like here your family,
ny can have it.
Speaker 1: They do so things that are just so over the top,
like that the nerve on these things. Of course they
own the joint, they can do whatever they want to do,
but still the nerve.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1: I've got another one for you from Bang Bang, Hey,
Bang Bang. She wants to know Thomas did the were wolf?
Did the werewolf's eyes glow? Yes? All right. That answer
is I have seen.
Speaker 2: I have seen, I have seen them blow.
Speaker 1: That answer is that. Then I've got another one for
you from low Man one oh one. He wants to know,
as Tom ever used a Wiji board.
Speaker 2: Never will and they are it's to me that bad medicine.
Speaker 1: Good man, good idea to steer clear. I've got another
one for you from Caleb. He wants to know, as
a veteran, were you scared of the dog man or
is it scared of you? I know i'd be scared
of your training and thank you for your service.
Speaker 2: One year. We're most welcome, Caleb, and I would probably
have to say that we're both probably scared.
Speaker 1: You really think the dog man itself was frightened of you?
Speaker 2: I think I wouldn't. I don't want. I would say
to be more apprehensive because it didn't know what I
was going to do, and I didn't know what it
was going to do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense, and it knew you might have
been armed. It seems like both Sasquatch dog men, whatever
crypt did you bump into out there, It seems like
they know whether you're armed or not. It doesn't matter
if you have that weapon on display. Seems like they
just know. How do you think they do that? Do
you think they smell the gunpowder or through some other means?
Speaker 2: Well, people say you know they can spell the gunpowder.
I just kind of like chuckle and say, really, I
don't think so. Now, Yes, I do go armed. I
do carry my weapons concealed, sometimes really active. Where there
has been an attack, I will carry a long gun.
I will carry a shotgun with hard gas slugs in it.
If you do carry a handgun, the type of ammo
to be used, I would use hard gas rounds either
from buffalo board or underwood ammunition, or solid copper monolithic
rounds cely because you are going to need penetration.
Speaker 1: You made a comment a bit ago about how you
should use copper rounds instead of lead. What's the story
behind that, Well, opper.
Speaker 2: It's a solid Uh, it's a it's a solid copper. Uh.
It's looked like almost looks like a Phillips head screwdriver
called extreme penetrators. Yeah, they work real well. Now, some
Native Americans, you know where silver has a uh with
like with the purity and you know protection and also
copper has kind of the same type of properties as
silver does and and uh and uh as in like
protection like silver. Uh. But me personally, I use hard
cast lead flat points.
Speaker 1: Have you ever used a hard cast lead round that
gave effective results?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 1: Yes, I don't need to tell you. There are so
many people in this whole cryptid field who they present
themselves as if they can tell you how many hairs
are on a dog man's shoulder blade right shoulder blade
versus its left shoulder blade. I've had people tell me
things like, if you use copper rounds, that's only effective
way to to fin one off. If you use a
lead round, it's not going to do anything. When it
comes to these guys, what's your take on that.
Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing is really where what the hardcast
flat points is You've got to smash be able to
smash bone and penetrate the thick muscle of the body
to get it into the vitals with a dog man
in a bigfoot. Your head shots between the eye and
the ears is your best point that day.
Speaker 1: Hang for.
Speaker 2: The eye sockets are probably the most ideal. I mean,
put one through their ear. But I will tell anybody this, Uh,
your firearm as your last resort. There are a lot
of other things that you can do before you have
the resort of that.
Speaker 1: I'm glad you said that. Do you say the things
that you have because you believe they have an armored
chest or for other reasons?
Speaker 2: No, it's just because of their bone density. Their bone
density is a lot thicker than ours, their muscles are.
Their muscles are thicker than ours, So you're going to
need to need around to be able to punch through that.
Speaker 1: That makes sense. Let's get back to the questions from
the live chat. Next one on deck is from Charles
do Goo and Charles wants to know does Tom and
team travel and research armed which you answered that a
bit ago wondering since he mentioned a type of emo
when the answer is yes, he went over that pretty
close to the beginning of the show, or maybe the
the first fourth of the show. The next question is
this is a good one from Hadley Ramsdell and Haley
wants to know how can you tell a werewolf and
dog man apart since most people use the typical werewolf
description to describe their dog man encounter. And if there's
two types of dog men, are there two types of
werewolves or just one?
Speaker 2: There are different types of dog There are different types
of dog men. There's one in LBL that I haven't seen,
but I have from people that have researched that area,
and one was a really close friend of mine. They
saw one that looked like a hyaena.
Speaker 1: It's fun that you mentioned that because guess what The
next question is about hyenotype dogmen. That question is from
space Jerk thirty five and he wants to know Hi,
Vic Hi Thomas. Could Thomas please talk about the hyena
type dog man? Thanks?
Speaker 2: Uh. I don't know a whole lot about him, but
my friend who has dealt with him, I mean, I'm
gonna tell you what he told me. He goes, these
things are total buttholes he thinks that there there are
These types are also responsible for a lot of the
missing person cases in the South. When it's when it
comes to these, he said, these are just they're just
utterly vicious. He said, you know, dealing with them, they
start acting stupid. He goes, the best thing you can
do is just drop it.
Speaker 1: Better be a good shot.
Speaker 2: Well, that's why I like. That's why I use a
twelve gauge.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 2: With a hard gast slug.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that should do it. Hit in the right spot.
This next question is from low Man one oh one,
and he wants to know, as Tom ever looked for
gugway near the abandoned Woja mines many sightings.
Speaker 2: I have no idea where the Wojo minds.
Speaker 1: Are even at. I don't either. Yeah, that's new one
on me.
Speaker 2: I mean to be honest, though I am, I have
no idea where that's at.
Speaker 1: That makes two of us. The next question is from
G Black Sheep and G wants to know, And it's
a good question. Do you know where they bury their dead?
Speaker 2: My if I were to take an educated guess, probably
in the most isolated area where humans do not go.
Same thing with Bigfoot. They'll take them somewhere where people
probably have never even walked on walk that type part
of the land.
Speaker 1: If I had a nickel for every person I spoke
with who things that we go everywhere and there are
no places left in this world that people don't touch,
I'd be a rich man. Now all bet all bet
how ridiculous. There are so many places we don't go,
we don't go near. So it's crazy to say that,
crazy to think that it really is.
Speaker 2: Well, that's the problem with most people. They think they
know everything.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that they do, that's a given. I've got another
good question for you from unreal estate agents seven to
seven zero, and they want to know, do you think
there are more than flesh and blood natural in other words,
as we know it, possibly some kind of interdimensional spirit
beings of some kind.
Speaker 2: Here's my take on it. Thirty years I've been doing this,
and every crypt that I've ever seen is flesh and
blood except for one, and that is a hell hound.
And I saw one of those in the cemetery and
it just dissipated in front of me, literally in the
blacks into smoke, dog Man, Bigfoot, flesh and blood all
the way. I mean, it's I've heard people talk about
the interdimensional, but I will keep my opinion to myself
on that. What I think that they're kind of lettle off.
If you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I understand. I've got another one for you from Clear
Porter and Clear wants to know, Thomas, is it true
that a Gugway is different? I think she means is
a different type of dog man. Forgive me, I just
turned from I think she means I just return from
the UK and missed the beginning.
Speaker 2: Oh that's okay, Claire, answer your question. The Gugway is
a bigfoot, type of bigfoot, not a dog man.
Speaker 1: That answer is that, let's find another good one. I've
got one here for you from Legion and they want
to know. Do the dog men or sasquatch ever work
with the crawlers?
Speaker 2: Well, from what I understand is dog man they kill crawlers,
and if I were to take a guess, sasquatch probably do.
Speaker 1: Also. Do you think they do that for fun or
for some actual purpose?
Speaker 2: I think their enemies.
Speaker 1: When I asked about a particular purpose, I'm getting at
maybe they do that because crawlers have a tendency of
targeting their young or some other reason where if they
actually got rid of the crawlers, that would help perpetuate
their their species or whatever you want to call them.
Speaker 2: You know what, that's a good that's a very good.
Theory is very well possible.
Speaker 1: I'm sure with all the people you speak with who
see these cryptis, I'm sure it's been run by you.
The possibility that dog men feed on sasquatch, or at
least juvenile sasquatch. This was years ago where someone contacted
me and they told me they were convinced that had
to be the case, and I asked them why. Well,
they went on to tell me how they were somewhere
out in the middle of nowhere and and they somehow
they came across this track of juvenile sasquatch. Prince. Well,
they told me how they saw some pretty big dog
man prints that were right next to those sasquatch prints.
And now I'm sorry they thought that they had to
be buddy Buddy, and I pose the possibility that maybe
the sasquatch, the juvenile sasquatch, had come along at one
point and then after the fact, maybe a bigger dog
man had come along and was actually attracting that juvenile
sasquatch to prey on it. Do you think that dog
men ever, do you take the opportunity to do that
if they catch a smaller sasquatch by itself, or do
you think that's just taboo and they never tried to
do that.
Speaker 2: I have actually heard of accounts where dog might have
done that. I mean I had never seen it myself,
but I have had regular reports where the dogmen will
per date on juvenile, juvenile bigfoot.
Speaker 1: I wonder how that goes. I wonder if normally dog
men don't try to jump on a sasquatch that's above
a certain size compared to their own. I mean, as
you know, dog man, they get awfully big. If you
do have a ten foot dog man, a can I
type dogmen. I wonder what the cutoff line normally is,
where if they just draw the line and say, okay,
I'm not going to try to tackle a sasquatch above
this size.
Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing is, dogmen they're pack hunters like wolves. Uh.
There's been packs of up to thirty of these things
running together, and you get a good sized pack twelve
fifteen of them. I don't care how big the Sasquatch is.
It's not going to win. This is not going to
be a one on one fight.
Speaker 1: Do you believe the Kenon type dogmen are obligate carnivores.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they're very opportunistic too.
Speaker 1: If they are obligate carnivores playing the devil's advocate, do
you think they come together in numbers only once in
a blue moon or do you think they make a
habit out of doing that, Because if they made a
habit out of doing that, if you think about the
daily CLOrk requirements of one dog man, that's six hundred
plus pounds. If you multiply that times ten or fifteen,
you can only imagine how quickly they will go through
all the resources in a huge area. If that's the case,
how do you think they combat that.
Speaker 2: They go to a different area. They never stay in
the one area for very long because they understand that
they can't deplete all the resources in one area, So
they're going to give it time for those resources in
that area be able to read, you know, regroup, regenerate
it before they'll come back. I mean, they're they're from understanding,
like Bigfoot, there territories can extend hundreds of miles.
Speaker 1: To us traveling that far, that's a big problem. But
for these guys, you know, that's just a hop skipping
a jump for the most.
Speaker 2: Part, exactly. I mean you think you think, uh uh,
you know, I'm sure that they you know, they have
my migratory paths. You know, when they go meet, probably
different clans meet up to meet, you know, so there's
not so there's not inbreeding between you know, between the
same plan.
Speaker 1: Can you imagine I'm sorry, uh.
Speaker 2: Bigfoot are known to do that. Uh, they basically, you know,
they meet up in the fall. You know, clans will
meet up in a fall, and families will you know,
swap up males and females among the clans of breed.
I'm sure the dog men probably do the same thing.
Speaker 1: Can you imagine running into an inbred dog man? That
wouldn't be good.
Speaker 2: You know. The wondering that scares me about the creptage
is running into one to be gut the gout contracted bradies.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that wouldn't be pretty at all.
Speaker 2: That would be bad. I think that would be to me,
would be my worst case scenario.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's not my idea. Of a good time. I've
thought about that before. It does make you wonder. I've
got another good question for you. It's from Blood Vipa,
and he wants to know do you think dog men
follow my green paths from territory to territory.
Speaker 2: I believe they do.
Speaker 1: When you make a living the way these guys do.
Just imagine how well they know all the paths to
get from one spot to another. I mean, that's their life.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm sure along the way. I mean they're migrating.
If they could take some farmer's cow or take their pig,
they're going to do it if they know they can
get away with it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it only makes sense. We're an hour and ten
into this. I need to tend to the animals, so
I'm going to get ready to call this. But before
I do call it, do you have any clothes and
comments you want to put out there for us.
Speaker 2: The only thing that I can tell you is when
you go in the woods, don't go alone, be the vigilant.
Always look to the trees, and don't become something's different.
Speaker 1: Well that's really good advice, it really is. Thomas. I
can't thank you enough for coming on and imparting all
this knowledge on us. I really do appreciate it, and
of course if you'd be open to it, love to
have you come back on in the future.
Speaker 2: Okay, sounds good, VIC, most definitely great.
Speaker 1: Of course I'm looking forward to that. Well, again, thanks
so much for your time. I really do appreciate it,
and of course I want you to know if I
can ever help you out, please let me know. I will.
Speaker 2: VIC, most definitely.
Speaker 1: Good man, I'll be there for you. All right. Well,
having said that, thanks again so much for your time,
and have a great night you too. Thanks. We'll see yuh. Well,
that's another one in the books. Before I get out
of here, just want to put it out there. Two
things if you didn't realize it. I've got a new
Dogman podcast. It's called dog Men Tails, and tails is
not spelled tea ils, it's spelled t A l Ees
and reference to the fact that we're talking about fictitious
stories on that channel, it's dog Me Entails again. It's
not available on YouTube. It's only available via your favorite
podcast app. It's available wherever you listen to podcasts, including
iHeartRadio and all the other podcast platforms out there. So
check it out. I think you'd like what you hear. Also,
if you've had a Dogman Encounter that you need help
coming to terms with, or if you want to come
on the show and share it with the listeners, please
go to Dogmanencounters dot com and submit a report. If
you do that, I'll be more than happy to contact
you and that way we can schedule a phone consultation.
But having said that, thanks again so much as always
for listening, and have a great nights.
Speaker 2: English