1 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,359 Speaker 1: And we are back with another edition of the Federalist 2 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:24,679 Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, Senior Elections correspondent at The Federalist, 3 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:29,920 and your experienced Shirpa on today's quest for Knowledge. As always, 4 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:32,759 you can email the show at radio at the Federalist 5 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:37,119 dot com, follow us on x at fbr LST, make 6 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:40,159 sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcast, and of 7 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:43,439 course to the premium version of our website as well. 8 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:47,960 Our guest today is Sean Feiler, chief investment officer at 9 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:51,719 Equinox Partners, a Connecticut based investment firm founded in nineteen 10 00:00:51,759 --> 00:00:56,039 eighty seven. Shawn is also an expert in all things mining, 11 00:00:56,280 --> 00:01:00,439 emerging markets, rare earth, and minerals very important topics as always, 12 00:01:00,479 --> 00:01:05,120 but increasingly so these days, and it is there that 13 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:09,879 we turn our attention to today. Shawn's recent column in 14 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:14,040 The Federalist, headlined how Trump can resolve a legal battle 15 00:01:14,079 --> 00:01:19,319 between mining rights and religious liberty, examines the thorny interest 16 00:01:19,359 --> 00:01:25,239 issues surrounding the Resolution mine proposal in Arizona. Sean, thank 17 00:01:25,239 --> 00:01:27,000 you so much for joining us on this edition of 18 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:28,159 the Federalist Radio Hour. 19 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:29,799 Speaker 2: Matt, thank you for having me. 20 00:01:31,159 --> 00:01:34,599 Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm sure there are some in 21 00:01:34,599 --> 00:01:38,680 our listening audience that know something about this mine proposal 22 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:42,359 would be one of the largest copper minds in the world, 23 00:01:42,439 --> 00:01:46,000 if I understand this correctly, But it also involves some 24 00:01:46,239 --> 00:01:51,159 very key First Amendment issues. Obviously, can you give us 25 00:01:51,159 --> 00:01:56,040 an overview of what the project proposes and what the 26 00:01:56,239 --> 00:01:57,159 argument is. 27 00:01:59,159 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 3: So it is, it's the largest copper mine in the 28 00:02:03,359 --> 00:02:06,519 United States when it's developed, and it will be the 29 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:10,159 third largest in the world. It's a very high grade 30 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:14,800 rich underground copper mind in Arizona, about sixty miles east 31 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:19,439 of Phoenix, and it is going ahead. So the federal 32 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:24,240 land transfer to facilitate the mine is going to be 33 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:28,560 consummated in August, and I think that's the right outcome. 34 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:35,639 The problem is the Biden administration made a regrettable argument 35 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:40,360 that this does not burden the apaches religious liberty. They 36 00:02:40,599 --> 00:02:44,800 celebrated variety of rituals on the site for hundreds of years. 37 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:47,639 The Biden administration won that case, and so while the 38 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,479 mine's going ahead, which is the right decision, it's going 39 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:55,759 ahead in a way that damages religious liberty for all Americans. 40 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:59,039 Speaker 1: That's an important point because, as you mentioned, there is 41 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:02,759 a long history of the use of this site as 42 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:08,520 a religious site for the Apache tribe. And of course 43 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:13,919 the understandable argument is if the government or if private 44 00:03:14,599 --> 00:03:19,800 industry can come in and take over sacred sites in 45 00:03:19,879 --> 00:03:24,080 the name of public interest, that does raise some serious 46 00:03:24,159 --> 00:03:28,800 questions about what the government or private interest with the 47 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:33,120 help of the government, can do elsewhere as well. It 48 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:38,280 is not just the Apache nation that is dealing with 49 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:40,800 this issue or could deal with this issue moving forward. 50 00:03:42,639 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, so there is a unique conflict between. 51 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:55,319 Speaker 3: Animists Native Americans and their position in federal land or 52 00:03:55,319 --> 00:03:58,080 they're using federal land that they don't own in the 53 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:02,039 mining industry. So that is a a conflict that exists, 54 00:04:02,199 --> 00:04:09,400 I think, not uniquely, but overwhelmingly between Native Americans and 55 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:13,280 the federal government we comes to federal land use. And 56 00:04:13,319 --> 00:04:18,040 in bringing this case, the Apache lost in the Ninth Circuit, 57 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:21,759 and unfortunately, bringing the case that they did, they made 58 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,720 the situation much worse for everyone else. And so you 59 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:28,319 now have a federal government that is empowered, based on 60 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:33,480 the Ninth Circuit ruling to restrict religious worship on federal 61 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:35,839 land for pretty arbitrary reasons. 62 00:04:37,319 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 1: What is the best compromise here, as you said this 63 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:46,319 was the right decision because it certainly is in the 64 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:50,399 broader public interest. We all know the critical nature of 65 00:04:51,639 --> 00:04:56,160 making sure that we have the resources to support our 66 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:01,079 economy and our society moving forward. And we've become a 67 00:05:01,079 --> 00:05:05,120 lot more dependent, of course, on other countries, particularly countries 68 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:09,199 that don't particularly like us that much, and that is 69 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:12,560 a difficult position to be in. I think everybody, including 70 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:17,680 the Biden administration, understands that. But there is a broader 71 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:22,759 issue that goes beyond just the public interest. Now it 72 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:27,839 is the eternal notion that we have in our own faith, 73 00:05:27,959 --> 00:05:31,040 our own conscience, and those sorts of things. What is 74 00:05:31,639 --> 00:05:36,199 the right compromise in your estimation moving forward? And what 75 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:42,079 can the Trump do entering into this discussion, Well, what should. 76 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:46,480 Speaker 3: Have happened is the Biden administration should have made the 77 00:05:46,519 --> 00:05:51,360 case not that this destruction of the Apache side of 78 00:05:51,399 --> 00:05:54,399 worship did not burden the Apache religion. It obviously does. 79 00:05:54,439 --> 00:05:58,600 It destroys one of their sacred sites. The Biden administration 80 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:02,439 should have made the case that this is in America's 81 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:06,879 we have compelling national interest in developing this mind and 82 00:06:06,959 --> 00:06:11,439 that is the. 83 00:06:09,519 --> 00:06:11,759 Speaker 2: Criteria set forth in Riffra. 84 00:06:11,879 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 3: The religious Restoration Freedom Restoration Act from nineteen ninety three, 85 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:20,480 and so it should have met that hurdle. That would 86 00:06:20,519 --> 00:06:22,879 have been the right argument, and that would have then 87 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:27,360 created a pathway for the government to use federal land 88 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,959 to develop minds, but not created a pathway for the 89 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:34,199 federal government to arbitrary the restrict religious practice on. 90 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 2: Federal lands where there's no mind being developed. 91 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,879 Speaker 3: Now, the question for the Trump administration is having won 92 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:45,319 the right to proceed with this mind based on the 93 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,240 wrong argument, the wrong president coming out of the Ninth Circuit, 94 00:06:48,759 --> 00:06:51,879 what do you do now? It's not clear they can 95 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,839 undo this decision. The Supreme Court refused to hear the 96 00:06:54,879 --> 00:06:58,439 decision in May of this year. They only had two 97 00:06:58,519 --> 00:07:01,120 votes to accept the case. So I think they'll have 98 00:07:01,199 --> 00:07:04,439 to prove that America has a compelling national interest in 99 00:07:04,519 --> 00:07:08,759 developing minds on federal lands in another case that would 100 00:07:08,759 --> 00:07:12,600 hopefully challenge or change or modify this precedent in some 101 00:07:12,639 --> 00:07:13,279 important way. 102 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:16,639 Speaker 1: So this decision under the Biden administration, and let me 103 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:18,959 make sure that I have this correct, it kind of 104 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:26,120 opened the door wide to federal interest, not keeping it 105 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:30,759 specific here in this particular case. If that is the case, 106 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:35,360 then what does that mean ultimately moving forward for the 107 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:42,480 public or American interest as in competition and direct competition 108 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:46,360 with First Amendment religious freedom rights. 109 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. 110 00:07:47,639 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 3: So you had the Biden administration in a kind of 111 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:54,839 horrible and predictable, predictable. 112 00:07:54,399 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 2: No fashion, as soon as this president. 113 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 3: Was handed down by the Ninth Circuit, it you had 114 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:10,000 the US Force Reservice under Biden restrict Memorial Day Mass 115 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:13,600 that the Knights of Columbus had celebrated for sixty years 116 00:08:14,199 --> 00:08:18,560 at a cemetery thirty miles south of Richmond, Virginia, on 117 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:23,560 the idea that you simply could The Biden administration then 118 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,279 reversed that restriction because. 119 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 2: It was a little too crazy. 120 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 3: But it gives you a sense in terms of the authority, 121 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:37,080 the arbitrary authority that this now Ninth Circuit president gives 122 00:08:37,159 --> 00:08:41,840 to federal government that would be hostile to religion, and 123 00:08:41,879 --> 00:08:47,080 it would, in theory, really allow them to prohibit religious 124 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:52,240 practice on federal land for almost any reason. It's just 125 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:57,480 if it was not specifically targeted at punishing a particular religion. 126 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:01,960 So this is a fortunate president and that has to 127 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:06,600 be overturned, reversed in some way so that's not abused 128 00:09:06,639 --> 00:09:09,600 by a federal government that's hostile to religion in the future. 129 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:12,559 Speaker 1: Well, this should come as no surprise to anybody who's 130 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:16,080 been following politics in this country in recent years. Certainly 131 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:20,399 over the four years of the Biden administration, this was 132 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:25,480 an administration that was in many ways seemed to be 133 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:29,559 at war with the Christian faith in this country and 134 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:32,240 the free exercise of that faith. You can think of 135 00:09:32,279 --> 00:09:38,960 myriad examples. So you know, maybe the current president doesn't 136 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:43,080 abuse those powers, but it certainly seems to set up 137 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,960 the ability to abuse this power. 138 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:52,639 Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's the So the troubling part of the 139 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:56,399 decision of the Ninth Circuit is that the Ninth Circuit 140 00:09:56,519 --> 00:10:03,639 concluded that by destroying this site of religious worship for 141 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:06,240 the Apaches, that that was not a substantial burden. That 142 00:10:06,919 --> 00:10:10,240 a substantial burden on the Apaches would be something that 143 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:16,480 compelled them to deny or behave in a way counter 144 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:21,039 to their religious beliefs, which if you think about the 145 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,720 general applicability of that and what that would mean, that 146 00:10:23,759 --> 00:10:28,919 would allow obviously any kind of restrictions on a religious 147 00:10:28,919 --> 00:10:31,159 practice if it didn't force you to do something that 148 00:10:31,279 --> 00:10:33,320 was actually against your religion. 149 00:10:33,759 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 2: So it's a. Really, it's a very unfortunate precedent. 150 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 3: And the reason I wrote the piece is I think 151 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,759 there's relatively just a small population of people that are 152 00:10:42,759 --> 00:10:46,159 interested in both religious liberty and mining, and there's a 153 00:10:46,159 --> 00:10:49,480 lot of nuance in this case. I think in because 154 00:10:49,519 --> 00:10:52,559 the path forward involves both mining and religious liberty. It's 155 00:10:52,639 --> 00:10:55,840 just not it's not consistent with the argument either the 156 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:59,759 Trump administration, the Bide administration made, or what the Ninth Circuit. 157 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the word I think that describes this. In 158 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:07,120 reading your piece and looking more into this issue, because 159 00:11:07,159 --> 00:11:09,000 I have to be honest with you, I didn't know 160 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:12,080 much about this issue, if much of anything about this 161 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:16,200 issue before reading your piece and looking further into it. 162 00:11:16,279 --> 00:11:19,559 I am very familiar with mind battles we'll talk about. 163 00:11:19,759 --> 00:11:22,799 In fact, I have a question just because I'm interested. 164 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:27,120 I toured a mind proposal what would have been a 165 00:11:27,279 --> 00:11:32,120 massive copper mind in Alaska. But there are always these 166 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:36,240 kinds of battles. Usually when it comes to liberal administrations, 167 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:40,279 it's a battle for the environment or what they believe 168 00:11:40,399 --> 00:11:45,399 to be the climate change, existential crisis or whatever. But 169 00:11:45,519 --> 00:11:51,240 these are even there's significantly more nuanced this particular case 170 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:57,600 in Arizona. And I guess I understand the absolute importance 171 00:11:57,799 --> 00:12:01,240 of this mind that is clear and should be clear 172 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:10,279 to anybody who's following geopolitics these days. That said, I 173 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:16,559 don't know how ultimately you make the definitive argument that 174 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:23,679 this wouldn't hurt the Apaches religious you know, pursuits, because 175 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:27,720 this is where they have practiced their their faith for 176 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:32,159 for many, many years. And whether you subscribe to you know, 177 00:12:33,759 --> 00:12:37,600 protecting the Apaches or not, it would seem to have 178 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:41,320 broader impacts on all kinds of different faiths and set 179 00:12:41,399 --> 00:12:45,480 up a you know, a problematic situation moving forward. 180 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:51,679 Speaker 3: That's certainly true. I think, you know, there is just 181 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:58,600 an inherent problem with a national mining policy that's really 182 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:04,799 evolved from the courts rather than from the political process. 183 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:12,519 And so we're decades into the reduction the destruction of 184 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:19,000 the American domestic mining sector, and that's a combination of 185 00:13:19,639 --> 00:13:26,759 these kinds of restrictions, litigation, environmental regulations that are unduly burdensome. 186 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:30,960 And now that we have I think rightfully as a 187 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:33,840 country decided that and the Trump demonstration has been very 188 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:35,879 clear on this that we do want to develop our 189 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:40,759 domestic mineral wealth there has to be a path forward 190 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,320 to do that that's really political rather than just the 191 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:46,919 legal process. If we're going to get to a reasonable place. 192 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:50,120 And the next big I think battle in this is 193 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:53,679 going to be in Alaska to copper mind. That Trump 194 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:57,720 supporter and secretary for the candidate for the Secretary of 195 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:01,559 the Treasury, John Paulson is now the largest ownerant and 196 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:05,000 that's interesting. He just put a billion dollars into this project, 197 00:14:05,039 --> 00:14:10,200 buying half the asset from Barrack. And that also is 198 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:13,679 going to be a conflict with Native Americans, not over 199 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:19,200 religious liberty fights, but over environmental concerns. But that again, 200 00:14:19,279 --> 00:14:22,879 is a project like this that needs to go ahead. 201 00:14:22,919 --> 00:14:26,799 It is a you know, in from the perspective of 202 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:32,159 the mining sector, these are high quality, not particularly environmentally 203 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:38,480 deletorious or problematic minds that need to be permitted if 204 00:14:38,519 --> 00:14:39,320 we have any. 205 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:41,639 Speaker 2: Hope of actually having a domestic mind industry. 206 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:45,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, this is I assume you're referring to what was 207 00:14:46,639 --> 00:14:49,799 years ago called the Pebble Mind Project. Is it still 208 00:14:49,919 --> 00:14:56,240 under that name, Donlin Creek, Okay, this is that different 209 00:14:56,279 --> 00:14:59,480 from the Pebble Mind Project or the names change. 210 00:14:59,759 --> 00:15:01,799 Speaker 2: It's it's different. It's a different project. 211 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: Okay, I see I refer to the Pebble mine project 212 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:08,399 because I remember flying in the Bush Country in twenty 213 00:15:08,519 --> 00:15:10,840 thirteen for a publication I was working for and I 214 00:15:10,879 --> 00:15:13,919 was looking at the mine and I got to meet 215 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:16,639 the people on the ground who were invested in that, 216 00:15:16,919 --> 00:15:21,080 and they had battled for years with the Obama administration, 217 00:15:21,279 --> 00:15:26,679 the EPA, and Gina McCarthy, who was the EPA administrator 218 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:30,679 at that time. It was roadblock after roadblock, including a 219 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:36,440 huge constitutional issue of due process, which where you had 220 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:42,240 the EPA basically closing down the project before they could 221 00:15:42,279 --> 00:15:46,679 even make their case, and that I wrote extensively about that. 222 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:51,000 Where has that project gone? As you said, it's a 223 00:15:51,039 --> 00:15:55,600 little bit. It's different in many ways from what's going 224 00:15:55,639 --> 00:15:59,840 on in Arizona, but the similarities of the broader in 225 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:01,519 packs are still there. 226 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 3: Well, I'm not knowledgeable enough to give you an update 227 00:16:04,799 --> 00:16:08,240 on the Pebble project, but I can tell you that 228 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:13,639 with Paulson putting a billion dollars in dolland crete to 229 00:16:13,759 --> 00:16:20,480 buy that asset from Barrack, I think they have a 230 00:16:20,559 --> 00:16:23,559 high level of conviction that that is going to go 231 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:28,919 ahead and be permitted in the current administration. Billion dollars 232 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:31,879 even for a man of John Palson's means, is still 233 00:16:31,919 --> 00:16:37,639 a lot of money. And you know, again there's it's 234 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:42,720 one of those projects where you have the local tribes 235 00:16:42,759 --> 00:16:46,200 are supportive of it because of the economic benefits. You 236 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:49,960 have tribes more distant that are opposed because they're not 237 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:56,120 direct beneficiaries. And then we have a legal system in 238 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,320 the United States that allows, you know, for really a 239 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:05,240 lot of not particularly merit based objections to these projects 240 00:17:05,279 --> 00:17:08,680 to be held up and in the right administration from 241 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:12,200 an environmentalist perspective or anti mining perspective, if you get 242 00:17:12,599 --> 00:17:18,680 an Obama or a Biden, then a very thin argument 243 00:17:18,839 --> 00:17:23,480 on any grounds that opposes mining has done quite well 244 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:29,480 in the courts and with the administration. So you know, 245 00:17:29,519 --> 00:17:31,720 it's a real problem for the companies trying to develop 246 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:35,279 these assets because they have decades and billions of dollars 247 00:17:35,279 --> 00:17:39,880 into these projects and just can't get the projects to 248 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,839 a final investment decision and can't reap any of the 249 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:45,720 financial benefits from having developed these assets. And so long 250 00:17:45,759 --> 00:17:48,839 as that's the high level loss on where we are 251 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,519 in the mining industry in the United States, it's really 252 00:17:51,559 --> 00:17:53,960 hard to entice mining companies to spend a lot of 253 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:57,119 money not just developing projects, but looking for new projects 254 00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:59,119 to develop in the United States, and so that's part 255 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:01,359 of the reason why our domestic mind industry is in 256 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:03,480 such bad shape. 257 00:18:04,799 --> 00:18:08,440 Speaker 4: Rule Number one of investing is compounding. Is the royal 258 00:18:08,599 --> 00:18:09,480 road to riches. 259 00:18:09,599 --> 00:18:12,599 Speaker 5: The Watchdot on Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski every 260 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,400 day Chris helps unpack the connection between politics and the 261 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:17,160 economy and how it affects your wallet. 262 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:20,920 Speaker 4: If you're saving money and you let compounding work, it's magic. 263 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:23,519 It's not a matter of if. It's a matter of 264 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:25,240 when you will be wealthy. 265 00:18:25,319 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 5: Whether it's happening in DC or down on Wall Street, 266 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:28,599 it's affecting you financially. 267 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 1: Be informed. 268 00:18:29,279 --> 00:18:31,400 Speaker 5: Check out the Watchdot on Wall Street podcast with Chris 269 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,319 Markowski on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. 270 00:18:37,599 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, the process is absolutely insane. Having covered this story 271 00:18:42,319 --> 00:18:49,000 years ago, we are what in fifteen twenty years into 272 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:53,359 the making of some kind of a mind. There we're 273 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:57,880 talking with Sean Feiler, chief investment officer of Equinox Partner. 274 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:01,839 It's a Connecticut based investment for founded in nineteen eighty seven. 275 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:05,960 John is also an expert on all things mining emerging markets, 276 00:19:06,039 --> 00:19:08,920 rare earth and minerals. That's what we're talking about today, 277 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:15,400 specifically about a copper project in Arizona. Not just a 278 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:19,400 project that is certainly an American America's interest, but it 279 00:19:19,599 --> 00:19:25,920 also has implications, broader implications on religious rights. Back to 280 00:19:26,559 --> 00:19:34,839 your thought, as I said, the insanity surrounding the regulation 281 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:42,960 and the long process has to absolutely make investors say 282 00:19:43,519 --> 00:19:49,640 at least pause. There is obviously a massive upside for 283 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:56,200 investors in these kinds of minds, but the allowances, the 284 00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:01,519 permissions are subject to change in our political system. You 285 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:05,720 mentioned before that there is a political answer to all 286 00:20:05,759 --> 00:20:08,799 of this. I would imagine that political answer has to 287 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:14,759 come it within Congress to establish clear, defining laws that 288 00:20:15,079 --> 00:20:23,279 restrict agencies, government agencies from overburdening these investors, these companies 289 00:20:23,319 --> 00:20:27,480 as they try to move forward in the public interest. 290 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:33,799 Where did those issues stand today in terms of legislation, Well, 291 00:20:33,799 --> 00:20:34,519 it's hard. 292 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 3: Right this is you know, we can pass apparently one 293 00:20:37,759 --> 00:20:40,559 piece of legislation every year out of Congress. 294 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:48,200 Speaker 6: The current political configuration, and rewriting NEBA or the National 295 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,759 Environmental Protection Act is not an easy thing to do, 296 00:20:51,839 --> 00:20:55,400 would be a challenging political thing to do, it's not 297 00:20:55,559 --> 00:20:58,759 clear that the administration. 298 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 3: Has made the case to do that in a way 299 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:06,839 that would be politically compelling. Right, So you have executive orders. 300 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:10,440 The Trump administration, to its credit, put out a really 301 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:15,039 positive executive order on March twentieth to increase mineral production 302 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:16,119 here in the United States. 303 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:18,640 Speaker 2: It makes the right arguments, but if you. 304 00:21:18,599 --> 00:21:20,880 Speaker 3: Look at from a policy perspective, what they're trying to 305 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,599 do to cure some of the largest deficits. 306 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,599 Speaker 2: We have in terms of mineral availability in the United States. 307 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,839 Speaker 3: It's mining in the Ukraine, it's mining in Greenland, it's 308 00:21:29,839 --> 00:21:33,960 mining in the DRC right, it's mining on the seabed floor. 309 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:37,799 There's lots of places that are very difficult to mind 310 00:21:37,839 --> 00:21:42,839 that seem to this administration easier than right here at home. 311 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:43,559 Speaker 2: In the United States. 312 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:47,599 Speaker 3: And that is a real, i think, indictment of just 313 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:52,319 how bad the situation is. Domestically. I think there's some 314 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:56,839 possibility of moving forward under this administration. Mining projects in 315 00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:03,279 red states, but mining state and blue states are still stuck. 316 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:09,200 We have mining projects in Maine and in California that 317 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:11,839 there's nothing wrong with the project. In one case, it's 318 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,799 actually an existing mind brownfield. 319 00:22:14,279 --> 00:22:15,640 Speaker 2: Site that would be redeveloped. 320 00:22:16,319 --> 00:22:21,160 Speaker 3: And the local political opposition to these minds is irrational, 321 00:22:21,279 --> 00:22:24,200 it's ideological, it's it's. 322 00:22:24,079 --> 00:22:29,079 Speaker 2: Almost religious in its character. It's an environmentalist that have. 323 00:22:29,039 --> 00:22:32,640 Speaker 3: A total opposition to mining in any form, ever, anywhere 324 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:35,519 near them, and that has to be cured in some way. 325 00:22:35,599 --> 00:22:38,359 And it's not clear politically how you solve it. 326 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,799 Speaker 1: The environmentalist and some of them, as extreme as it is, 327 00:22:42,839 --> 00:22:46,640 they almost feel like a cult. And perhaps they'll argue 328 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:51,119 for their religious protections of course, and their extremist mining 329 00:22:51,279 --> 00:22:54,759 positions or anti mining positions, I should say. I mean, 330 00:22:54,839 --> 00:22:59,279 the Arizona case does raise some fundamental questions, and it 331 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,799 also suppose is exactly what you were just talking about. 332 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:06,680 How long has this project been proposed? As you say, 333 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:10,359 it's got the green light, it is moving forward. But 334 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:17,559 I knowing this industry, knowing the regulation surrounding it, this 335 00:23:17,799 --> 00:23:21,440 wasn't a walk in the park obviously to get to 336 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:23,599 from point A to point B. 337 00:23:24,759 --> 00:23:30,759 Speaker 3: So the asset was discovered in nineteen ninety five, thirty 338 00:23:30,839 --> 00:23:37,880 years ago, and it was stuck because it's under federal land, 339 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:43,839 and so they needed congressional legislation to transfer the land 340 00:23:44,039 --> 00:23:49,720 to riotinto and BHPR the two owners, they're a British 341 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:54,759 and Australian company that are the owners of this mineral deposit. 342 00:23:55,519 --> 00:24:00,359 And John McCain and Jefflake, and the Congressional delegation in 343 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:06,720 Arizona in twenty and fourteen had this transfer of four 344 00:24:06,759 --> 00:24:11,000 hundred and twenty two acres of land to Rio Tinto 345 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:17,319 inserted into the National Defense Authorization Act of that year 346 00:24:17,759 --> 00:24:21,799 and it passed Congress. So you actually had a congressional 347 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:27,759 legislation affecting this land transfer to these companies so they 348 00:24:27,759 --> 00:24:32,359 could develop the mine. And now we're, you know, a 349 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,079 decade on from when that passed, eleven. 350 00:24:34,839 --> 00:24:37,200 Speaker 2: Years on from when that passed, And. 351 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:42,519 Speaker 3: It took the Trump administration four years to get the 352 00:24:42,559 --> 00:24:50,359 Forcery Service to issue the final environmental impact statement, and 353 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,039 then the Biden administration they were sued by the APACHES, 354 00:24:54,039 --> 00:24:57,400 which put it into this Ninth Circuit decision that came out. 355 00:24:57,279 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 2: In twenty twenty four spring. 356 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,599 Speaker 3: But the Bide adminstration then totally abandoned the process of 357 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:05,519 getting the MIND permitted in the first place and wouldn 358 00:25:05,519 --> 00:25:07,720 an issue to study because the Biden administration had no 359 00:25:07,799 --> 00:25:10,839 interest in seemed like developing the MIND at all. So 360 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:14,480 You're eleven years in and two point seven billion dollars 361 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:16,799 if you go all the way back to the capital 362 00:25:16,839 --> 00:25:19,880 spent on the project since nineteen ninety five. So it's 363 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,720 been a long and tortuous path, and I think even 364 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,039 now that it's going ahead, it's not clear that it 365 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,440 is an endorsement to spend more money on mining projects 366 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:30,640 here in the United States because of the. 367 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:31,279 Speaker 2: Way it's gone hit. 368 00:25:32,079 --> 00:25:38,640 Speaker 1: It is almost criminal how the developer is proposing these 369 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:42,039 projects are treated throughout the process, and as we mentioned, 370 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:46,079 it's always subject to change. What about that area that 371 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:51,039 I mentioned before the Obama administration second term, in particular 372 00:25:51,799 --> 00:25:56,920 in the EPA, basically shutting down or attempting to shut 373 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:01,920 down projects before the those who are proposing them have 374 00:26:02,039 --> 00:26:05,759 a chance to make their case. Where does that stand now? 375 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:11,720 And how much did the Supreme Court's decision chevron those 376 00:26:11,839 --> 00:26:18,400 kinds of cases that ended bureaucratic deference the experts in 377 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:24,319 the federal agencies. How much is that playing into minds 378 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:26,960 and mind development in America today. 379 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 3: It's a good question that I do not know the 380 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:35,559 answer to. It's not my particular area of expertise in 381 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:41,480 terms of the legal process, as it relates to Niba, 382 00:26:41,599 --> 00:26:45,200 and certainly not under the Bomb administration. I just don't 383 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:49,319 know exactly where that stands. I can tell you that 384 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:54,920 in Blue states the federal government has there's really no 385 00:26:54,960 --> 00:27:00,039 strategy the federal government has, even under this administration, to 386 00:27:00,079 --> 00:27:06,000 get those states to move projects forward. You do now 387 00:27:06,039 --> 00:27:09,799 for the first time have funding out of the Export 388 00:27:09,839 --> 00:27:16,079 Import Bank, in out of the Defense Department for domestic minds, 389 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:20,839 and so providing some capital to the mines in counties 390 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,759 and the states where they can get permitted. And then 391 00:27:24,759 --> 00:27:27,200 I think it also is going ahead. And I think 392 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,599 it's also once the project has received an FID and 393 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,759 final approval and is under construction and has been capitalized. 394 00:27:33,799 --> 00:27:35,759 I think it would be very awkward or hard for 395 00:27:35,799 --> 00:27:37,799 a new administration to come in and stop it once 396 00:27:37,839 --> 00:27:40,720 that capital has been spent and the mine is up 397 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,359 and running. That's just not that's not something we've seen. 398 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:45,480 We've seen that in some Latin American countries. I just 399 00:27:45,519 --> 00:27:48,079 don't think we'll see that in the United States. 400 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,559 Speaker 1: You mentioned before that the Trump administration is very interested, 401 00:27:51,599 --> 00:27:56,759 to say the least, in exploration elsewhere beyond the United 402 00:27:56,799 --> 00:28:00,960 States of America, and that does expose the problem, the 403 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:06,079 regulation problem here in America, all the hurdles therein one 404 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:10,640 of the big areas of exploration and potential. Agreement, of 405 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:14,079 course comes in a war torn country right now, that 406 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:21,400 being Ukraine, and the war with Russia and Ukraine rages on. 407 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:27,599 At the same time there is this deal. Are you 408 00:28:27,599 --> 00:28:30,240 familiar with where things stand or up to date on 409 00:28:30,319 --> 00:28:35,920 where things stand on this rare earth minerals deal between 410 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,039 the United States and Ukraine. 411 00:28:38,359 --> 00:28:44,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a little crazy. So the original iteration. 412 00:28:44,039 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 2: Of the deal. 413 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 3: Is going to count, by Trust's math, with three hundred 414 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,640 and fifty billion that we'd put into Ukraine as part 415 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:55,480 of the capital that was going to be paid back 416 00:28:55,519 --> 00:29:00,319 by Ukraine as a result of this joint venture that 417 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:04,640 then was struck out of the final draft that was signed. 418 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:10,720 So it's only incremental investments into Ukraine that would be 419 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:16,000 counted in our capital investment into the mining joint venture 420 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,839 with the government of the Ukraine. 421 00:29:19,079 --> 00:29:24,799 Speaker 2: I think the problem with the deal is that it doesn't. 422 00:29:26,319 --> 00:29:29,559 Speaker 3: Include existing mining projects in Ukraine, so it would be 423 00:29:29,559 --> 00:29:33,759 perspective mining projects in Ukraine. The other issue is that 424 00:29:33,839 --> 00:29:38,400 obviously there's still a war there. They are I have 425 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:45,559 depleted their infrastructure, they've depleted their manpower. It's not not 426 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,359 a location that the mining companies I'm familiar with are 427 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:52,279 eager to go invest in, and so I think what 428 00:29:52,799 --> 00:29:57,319 it created was a way for the US to prevent 429 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:01,480 Russian and Chinese mining companies from coming in should a 430 00:30:01,519 --> 00:30:11,440 new deal arise, and provided some implicit security investment in 431 00:30:11,599 --> 00:30:14,160 the United States in Ukraine on the part of the 432 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:18,160 United States should a mining project develop in the Ukraine. 433 00:30:18,559 --> 00:30:21,839 But I think it's much more political than having much, 434 00:30:22,359 --> 00:30:25,400 if anything to do with critical minerals and mining in 435 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:27,359 Ukraine that's just not happening anytime soon. 436 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 2: And the same thing is true in Greenland. 437 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 3: You know, these are difficult, remote projects, lots of capital, 438 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:40,240 it's not obviously clear that they're going to be developed 439 00:30:40,319 --> 00:30:42,880 or or economic if you were to develop them, And 440 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,119 the same things true in Eastern DRC. There there's some 441 00:30:45,319 --> 00:30:49,359 very economic projects to develop, but obviously not an easy 442 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:53,079 environment to operate in. So I just think these deals 443 00:30:53,119 --> 00:30:57,519 all have a heavy political overlay on them and aren't 444 00:30:57,559 --> 00:31:01,039 going to really solve the short term mineral and critical 445 00:31:01,079 --> 00:31:03,119 mineral problems we're having in the United States. 446 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 1: What impact, if any, does the war between or the 447 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:14,599 ceasefire wherever we stand as we talk today between Israel 448 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:19,799 and Iran. What impact does that have? Obviously it has 449 00:31:20,519 --> 00:31:25,759 certain impact on energy. What impact, if any, does that 450 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:32,079 have on mining exploration, rare earth minerals, all of that. 451 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:40,079 Speaker 3: Well, I mean only very tangentially to the extent that 452 00:31:40,119 --> 00:31:46,160 we've depleted munitions that use critical minerals, right, I think 453 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:50,240 it just increases the desire on the part of the 454 00:31:50,279 --> 00:31:54,599 defense contractors and the DoD to go find better sources 455 00:31:55,119 --> 00:31:58,160 for minerals they need in that as part of that 456 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:02,839 supply chain. You know, that's a deal that has to 457 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:09,119 be done with China. China has seventy percent of the 458 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:14,559 world's rare earth production from a mining perspective, but ninety 459 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,480 plus percent from a processing perspective. So the Chinese have 460 00:32:18,559 --> 00:32:23,960 been very strategic in not just mining the rare earths 461 00:32:24,039 --> 00:32:27,279 that they have that the world needs, but in processing 462 00:32:27,319 --> 00:32:30,200 the rare earths that are mined elsewhere in China, so 463 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,720 that they really do have a stranglehold over that supply, 464 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,319 which is one of the again ironies going back to 465 00:32:37,359 --> 00:32:42,039 the Resolution mine in Arizona is the largest shareholder in Ria. 466 00:32:42,119 --> 00:32:47,400 Tinto is a Chinese peristatal company, And because we don't 467 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:51,680 have available smelter capacity in the United States copper smelter 468 00:32:51,759 --> 00:32:54,720 capacity in the United States, for the copper concentrate that's 469 00:32:54,759 --> 00:32:58,000 going to be produced out of the Resolution mine, that 470 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:02,039 copper concentrate is very likely going to be shipped to 471 00:33:02,839 --> 00:33:07,839 China to be processed. So the amount of damage that 472 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:13,359 we've done to our domestic mining industry over decades, reversing 473 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:15,440 that and putting us back in a position where we 474 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,640 would not only mine the process the minerals that we 475 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:23,039 produce here domestically is just is a herculean task and 476 00:33:23,119 --> 00:33:27,119 it requires a very different mindset when it comes to 477 00:33:27,319 --> 00:33:29,599 permitting and financing of this sector. 478 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,559 Speaker 1: No doubt about the damage we have done to the 479 00:33:33,599 --> 00:33:39,079 mining industry over the last half century. In particular, I 480 00:33:39,119 --> 00:33:43,920 grew up in a small Wisconsin college town in Platteville, 481 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:48,920 Wisconsin that used to four years have a mining school. 482 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:53,480 In fact, right around the small city there's a mound 483 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:57,640 that has the world's largest m on it. It represented 484 00:33:58,279 --> 00:34:03,839 the mining school mining tradition of course in southwestern Wisconsin 485 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:07,319 in that region of the country. All of that's gone 486 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:13,480 now and it has been a process obviously of decades, 487 00:34:13,519 --> 00:34:21,559 But how much how dependent are we on China in 488 00:34:21,679 --> 00:34:26,920 terms of our needs and what will this mine in 489 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:31,480 Arizona do to improve that or to break some of 490 00:34:31,519 --> 00:34:32,440 that dependency. 491 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:38,559 Speaker 3: Well, so this one mine would produce million pounds of 492 00:34:38,599 --> 00:34:43,760 copper a year, and so the global markets a little 493 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:47,920 over fifty billion pounds, so two percent of the global production. 494 00:34:48,159 --> 00:34:51,360 But we only produce two and a half billion pounds 495 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,199 in the United States earrently, So it would be a huge, 496 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:58,800 almost forty percent uptick in terms of our domestic mine 497 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,519 production in copper, and it would last for forty years. 498 00:35:01,519 --> 00:35:02,239 Speaker 2: So this is. 499 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 3: Absolutely is a world class project, absolutely strategically important for 500 00:35:09,079 --> 00:35:14,079 the United States to go ahead with this mine. But 501 00:35:14,599 --> 00:35:17,000 picking up on your first point about just the human 502 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:27,039 capital we have, right, we've the industry is controlled by Chinese, Australians, Canadians. 503 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,360 Speaker 2: Global firms mainly that are not American. 504 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:34,800 Speaker 3: America only has two of the fifty largest mining companies 505 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,920 in the world are American Freeport and Numont, and a 506 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,360 lot of their assets are overseas. And so when you 507 00:35:41,559 --> 00:35:45,440 spend time with the mining companies, it's not that there's 508 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:52,320 no Americans, but we are a very distinct minority in 509 00:35:52,599 --> 00:35:57,880 most of these larger mining houses, the C suite and 510 00:35:58,559 --> 00:36:03,480 all the way down to the actual miners themselves. 511 00:36:03,639 --> 00:36:06,280 Speaker 2: So it's that is going to take a long time 512 00:36:06,679 --> 00:36:07,280 to reverse. 513 00:36:07,679 --> 00:36:10,400 Speaker 1: That is a sad story. My grandfather was a miner 514 00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:17,719 in southwest Wisconsin. They mined Galina. It's a lead mining area, 515 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:22,760 of course, and yeah, there have been certainly problems environmentally 516 00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:27,920 over the years, but the regulation that the industry has 517 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:33,079 experiences has been absolutely devastating and it has ripped apart 518 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,480 the mining industry so much so that we're reliant on 519 00:36:37,639 --> 00:36:41,639 foreign powers in foreign countries again, foreign countries that are 520 00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:46,639 clearly our enemy in trying to deal with this. As 521 00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:52,039 the President attempts to make America great, do you think 522 00:36:52,079 --> 00:36:56,840 he can make mining American mining great again in the 523 00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:58,039 United States? 524 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:05,920 Speaker 3: He has a very competent guy, David Copley. We brought 525 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:09,960 in as the chair of the National Energy Dominance Council 526 00:37:10,079 --> 00:37:15,239 that has overseen this EO Executive or that the Trump 527 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:18,480 administration put out on March twentieth. 528 00:37:20,119 --> 00:37:21,639 Speaker 2: So I think that's a good start. 529 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:25,559 Speaker 3: And there's clearly when you talk to the different government 530 00:37:25,639 --> 00:37:30,719 agencies that touch upon mining, there's clearly a direction for 531 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,880 them to do something to get to make progress to 532 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:38,760 get projects permitted. I do think the White House and 533 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:43,280 the President himself is going to have to continue to 534 00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:47,000 invest and invest more political capital into the mining sector. 535 00:37:47,679 --> 00:37:50,280 If we're actually going to revive the domestic mining sector in. 536 00:37:50,199 --> 00:37:52,480 Speaker 2: The United States. He's going to have to come up 537 00:37:52,519 --> 00:37:54,639 with a. 538 00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:58,800 Speaker 3: Strategy to pressure blue states to green light and permit 539 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:03,159 mining projects. He's going to have to convince the courts 540 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:07,960 that America has a compelling national interest in mind development 541 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,440 on federal land, and so that we don't get hung 542 00:38:10,519 --> 00:38:13,679 up like we did in this fight of a resolution 543 00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:17,880 on the idea that there's another path forward other than 544 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:21,280 declarity of the Kapellian national interest. There's going to have 545 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:25,119 to be government financing for some of the minds. They're 546 00:38:25,119 --> 00:38:29,280 simply not the private capital available for the development of 547 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:30,960 some of these projects in the United States. 548 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,280 Speaker 2: So's a long, long list of. 549 00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:36,039 Speaker 3: Things that need to be done, and none of it's easy. 550 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:41,480 So I'm optimistic that it happens, but there's still an 551 00:38:41,599 --> 00:38:43,519 enormous amount of work to do, and it's really hard 552 00:38:43,559 --> 00:38:47,280 to do any of it with the Congress we have, 553 00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,920 and so I think just the level of difficulty here 554 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:51,159 is really really high. 555 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:54,039 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're not going to solve the issue long term, 556 00:38:54,119 --> 00:38:57,480 as we know with executive orders. We've lived that experience 557 00:38:57,599 --> 00:39:02,880 obviously over the last several years in this country. But 558 00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:08,159 to end where we began, you believe that we can 559 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:13,880 do all of this, We can explore, we can expand 560 00:39:14,079 --> 00:39:20,639 mining in this country for those critical minerals without having 561 00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:30,559 to open wide the government control over faith areas. You 562 00:39:30,679 --> 00:39:34,840 believe that that is manageable. There are compromises that can 563 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:35,239 be made. 564 00:39:37,079 --> 00:39:38,159 Speaker 2: That's one hundred percent true. 565 00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:45,199 Speaker 3: The Native Americans and animists involved in nature worship on federal. 566 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:48,000 Speaker 2: Lands are going to be uniquely affected. 567 00:39:48,639 --> 00:39:53,440 Speaker 3: But having a precedent that really understands the importance of 568 00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:59,719 mining and damages religious liberty for everybody that uses federal 569 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:03,840 lands and for any religious practice that has nothing to 570 00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:07,840 do with mining, just as a very unfortunate way to 571 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:09,039 get started down this. 572 00:40:10,559 --> 00:40:13,079 Speaker 2: Process. So that's where we are today. 573 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:17,360 Speaker 3: Hopefully with Donalin Creek or with the next mine in 574 00:40:17,519 --> 00:40:19,920 Q that's going to go through this legal process and 575 00:40:20,039 --> 00:40:23,760 need federal government support, we get to a better decision 576 00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,960 and eventually a better precedent out of the courts on mining. 577 00:40:27,079 --> 00:40:30,599 Speaker 1: Such an important issue. For the future of this country, 578 00:40:30,639 --> 00:40:33,719 for the future of this republic nearing two hundred and 579 00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:39,079 fifty years in the making. Thanks to my guest today, 580 00:40:39,199 --> 00:40:43,800 Sean Feiler, chief investment officer of Equinox Partners, you've been 581 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,599 listening to another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm 582 00:40:46,599 --> 00:40:50,400 Matt Kittles, Senior Elections correspondent at the Federalist. We'll be 583 00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:54,119 back soon with more. Until then, stay lovers of freedom 584 00:40:54,559 --> 00:40:55,880 and anxious for the frame. 585 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:08,440 Speaker 3: I heard the fame voice the reason, and then it 586 00:41:08,639 --> 00:41:14,239 faded away. Mm hmm.