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Speaker 1: What is up, Fellasichos. I am dan fa Valley back

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with Mort Jensen of the NBA podcast Fame, y'ahoo Sports

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Fame and Forbes Fame to cover the second part of

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her Just look at NBA Contenders or Pretenders post trade

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deadline with the Western Conference. If you've not checked out

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the Eastern Conference episode, what are you doing? Go do

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that immediately? Time to get into the West, Mort, How

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the heck are you before we get into the second

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part of the sector doing well?

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Speaker 2: Doing well? We just recorded the first one, so this

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has been like an hour since we we wrapped up

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with that, and we you and I we had a

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good long chat in between episodes. Always enjoy spending time

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with you, sir.

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Speaker 1: How are you I am doing since the last time

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we talked five seconds ago? I'm doing pretty much the same,

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which is to say spectacular. Did you have any before

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we dig into it, any sort of reminders or reiterations

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of like, what is the criteria we're evaluating contender pretender against?

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I tend to lean towards does this team have a

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fairly plausible shot of making the Western Conference finals? And

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that's the lens at which I look through it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think even can sort of shift a little

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bit in between teams, which also underlines something else. No

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team plays the same way, despite what you're saying, because.

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Speaker 1: You mean this might goes four second social media eclips

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during garbage time of a game on Tuesday night. The

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NBA is not homogeneous. Are you serious? I am?

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Speaker 2: I am? And it's just it becomes so apparent whenever

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you dick down. What I think is funny is whenever

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you have two people like us who cover the league

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at large, like all thirty teams in some capacity, it

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just becomes so much more obvious for us, like because

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then you have a point about the Magic for example,

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which I hadn't considered. I'd come up with something from

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Atlanta's point where that you might not have considered, and

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it's like, oh, okay, they play so vastly different. And

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we go into these long rants about, okay, how to

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stop this team specifically, and we just kind of realize

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there's no catch all solution for like a handful of teams.

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You have to specifically tailor your defense and your offense

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to each and every damn team in this league, which

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means playing the same way. Get the fuck out of town.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And look, there's copycat stuff because it's a copycat league,

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but it's copycat like born from normal, like normally success.

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You're not trying to copycat what the Wizards are doing

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right now, right.

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Speaker 2: And they're not copycatting entire sets. You're propycatting some plays.

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You're not like laying your foundation and saying, you know,

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Kobe Mike, like, oh yeah, I'm just gonna emulate that

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person or that team once one not gonna happen in

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today's league, whatsoever.

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Speaker 1: We begin with the new look Dallas Mavericks, who have

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traded for Anthony Davis. They also traded for Caleb Martin.

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Luka Doncs notably is not on this team, and there's

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such a troll right now, there's look, there's we have

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to start here. Anthony Davis is expected to miss multiple weeks, yeah,

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following an abdominal injury that he suffered in his MAVs debut.

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What do you make of that? We have to like,

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we have to separate this from like the Luga Dantis

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trade coverage. It will continue, We've done it. This is

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now about the Mavericks, YEP, as they are currently constructed.

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Are they a championship contender. More No, let's move on.

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So look, the Anthony Davis injury is part of it

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for me. I really think that if you were trying

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to make the case that they have a chance, a

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relasius chance of winning the title this year, something has

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to give when it comes to either their lineup structures

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or the shot creation that's available. Anthony Davis wants to

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play the four and I don't necessarily have, Like when

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you look at who PJ. Washington has needed to cover

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since arriving in Dallas, him at the three is for

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me defensively, just like whatever him at the three offensively

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is where it gets weird. And you only have Kyrie

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Irving and Spencer Dinwiddie as just your shot creator types

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unless you think that jayde and Hardy is gonna bust

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out or that Dante Exam is going to explore a

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new level of his game. Because Anthony Davis, even when healthy,

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even his peak, has never been that player and it

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would not shock me if he gets healthy they make

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the playoffs. Whatever. I just feel like, even with a

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shot maker like Kyrie on the team, even with a

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defense that should not only be great but skews gigantic,

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I would not trust their offense in the postseason setting

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enough to call them a championship right.

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Speaker 2: So I think they lost a lot in the Quentin

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Grimes steel too.

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Speaker 1: I thought you were about to say I think they

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lost a lot in that Luca done that.

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Speaker 2: They sure did. No, I just you know, I think

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we also need to talk about the other trade, because

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I think they lost two trades. Quinton Grimes was kind

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of finding his way there. You've seen him up close

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in New York as well. When this guy is in

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a robust situation where he has a steady role. He

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is a pretty solid three D guy, even with some

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on ball pop occasionally. And I just I was very

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weirded out by the fact that they also traded him,

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because I'm like, who's going to replace that? Dante exem

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as we know not necessarily the most reliable three point

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shooter defense, Yeah, defensive minded, but will occasionally just because

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of you know the fact that he's injury thrown and

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you know it is not necessarily always on his best,

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will fluctuate a great deal defensively. So like, I'm just

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wondering who the hell takes over that role. It's not

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gonna be you know, it's it's not gonna be Martin

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like that. He's not as fluid as Grimes is. Like,

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I just don't you.

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Speaker 1: Didn't think Max Christy was a little redundant with Quentin Grimes.

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Speaker 2: So that's the thing. Can you really be redundant when

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you have like two types of those guys, especially at

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the cost. I just don't mind that you have multiple

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guys who can play the two and the three, who

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can hit the who can hit the three ball, who

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can defend at a decent level, who has some on

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ball pop. It's like you need more of those, if anything.

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I just I don't understand the idea of pivoting off. Yeah, sure,

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he's going to be a restricted free agent, Briand says,

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does that matter? Like, just keep him along. He's good,

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he's rock solid. As we all know, restricted free agents

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are getting squeezed in today's market anyway, like more than like.

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Speaker 1: One off in the past two years. Right, there was

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the Paul Reid thing from Utah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I just wouldn't be worried about it. And

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like you can say that Max Christy's gonna take his

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minutes and it's fine, but those that's where I would

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argue you loose in the margins. That's where you say,

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like you kind of justified by saying, oh, we don't

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need this good player because we have another good player,

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Well why not try to actually retain that player so

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you have two good players that if you're trying to win,

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like that's that that I may be too simplistic here,

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but like that's the broader idea I would argue. No,

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I think you're right, especially it becomes more important to

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win on those margins with the new look of your

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team because you should just have you want guys. Okay,

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Max Christy and quent 'mes both probably are better off

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guarding smaller players. You can also trust them to hit

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wide open threes. And it's now you have the number

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of players on your team that you trust to hit

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wide open threes in a vacuum? Is I guess PJ Washington,

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Max Christie and Kyrie Irving and then Klay Thompson's that's

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four names, but Kyrie's gonna be on the ball a lot,

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not gonna.

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Speaker 1: Get a ton of wide open three pointers. And you know,

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Dante exem has hit his wide open threes so far

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this year, but he hasn't played a ton and that

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that comes and goes. Kayleb Martin has actually struggled in

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that area this year, dating back to his time with

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the Sixers. Again, maybe it changes. Naji Marshall's at sub

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thirty five percent on wide open threes. So I just

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Kayleb Martin this year is actually at He's just not

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shooting a ton of them. He's had forty nine percent

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on wide open threes. That's that surprises me. So I

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agree with what you're saying that you want to have

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people player as players who check as many boxes as possible,

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And I think Kayla Martin probably checks more defensive boxes

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than Quentin Grimes, but I don't know that he checked

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enough of the offensive boxes that they need when they're

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now built around one exactly one elite shot creator.

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Speaker 2: And see, I don't even necessarily think I agree with

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you on the defensive point, because Grimes to me seems

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a little bit more scalable than Caleb it times, just

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in terms you don't think, Yeah, do you mean like

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my scale scalable in the sense that he can go

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guard a better player. I think you can get away

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with him, you know, kind of leveling up the matchup

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that he's going up against and get away with it

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a little bit more than Caleb. Like I think there's

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this Caleb is rock solid, don't get me wrong, but

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like it feels like there's this cliff he just drops

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the f off when he meets an opponent who's just like,

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oh no, you're just that smitch to too small for me,

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Like I'll just bully you, or I mean just I'm

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like this tiny bit quicker than you, and he just

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gets abused.

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Speaker 1: That's fair. I think you know what it is. Caleb

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I think has more positional malleability, even though where might

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be harder for him to guard down. I think it's

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way harder for Quentin Grimes to guard up.

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Speaker 2: That's fair.

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Speaker 1: So when you have Mac Christy, I could at least

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see doing the calculus of oh Kayla Martin might make

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more sense for us defensively. But now you just you're

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tethered to let's say your primary wing defenders, Like forget

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about sort of the guard positions for a second, Like

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that's not like a Klay Thompson thing necessarily, even though

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he's a very good offensive player. And now it's okay,

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we need like PJ. Washington or Naji Marshall or Kayla

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Martin to kind of pop as a complimentary issue, like

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you need a couple of them to pop. That's where

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you might get into trouble. But I even think I mean,

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had they not made the we're harping a lot on

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Quentin Grimes, had they not made the Quenton Grimes trade,

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would you be declared to call them a contender anyway?

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Speaker 2: No, I wouldn't. Then that might have been unfair. But

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I just wanted to single it out because if this

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was clearly a move to go all in this year

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like that, there's no two ways about. The MAVs just

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shortened their championship window, which automatically means when you're training

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away Luca for this return, you're in its win it immediately.

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I don't care. There's no other way to justify it.

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And I'm being potentially harsh, but I think most mass

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fans would agree that that's the only way you sort

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of mentally get over the fact that Luke was traded.

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That is, if you win a freaking championship and soon.

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So it just made no sense to me why you

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decided that your follow up trade you're gonna get even worse.

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That just made zero. That was the Yeah, that just

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made no sense to me.

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Speaker 1: And look, by the way, there's a world I don't

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want to harp on the Luca Dantis trade.

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Speaker 2: Oh we should.

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Speaker 1: They could win a title this year and they will

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still lose this trade because of how good for how

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long Luca is going to be good or transcendent? We

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should say I and it sucks. I hate I don't

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want to use Anthony Tavis's dirt. But like the NI

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Dame is a fantastic player. But you don't get this

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is why the spin from them has been not just

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bad but catastrophic. Is one. It's been inconsistent because they

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were worried about him resigning but also didn't want to

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pay him, okay, and then you harped on his commitment

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to conditioning and diet and nutrition and worried about it availability.

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So you're prioritized acquiring Anthony Davis, who gets injured and

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is again fantastic player. And it's never doesn't feel like

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anything chronic, Like Anthony Davis's biggest most chronic injury is

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injuries themselves.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's a fair point. It's everything has been

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coming out of Dallas has just been extremely petty, extremely bad.

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It seems to be not uninformed when you.

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Speaker 1: Look at what Patrick Deamont is saying, Yeah, we want

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Luca to work like Shack did.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Like oh really, that's that's the player you're going for.

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To me, the smoking gun where I was just like, oh, okay,

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you guys have absolutely no idea what you're talking about

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was when Nico Harrison was like, yeah, we wanted to

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get out of head of this thing, get proper value

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and whatnot. Oh and by the way, a lot of

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teams were loading up to get Luca in a couple

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of years.

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Speaker 1: Like so, how free agency works anymore? Guy?

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Speaker 2: No, No, not just that, but like you're basically saying

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that a ton of teams are lining up to go

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get Luca, meaning he has value league wide, but you

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only negotiate with one team, and you're trying to argue

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that that's the selling point. That to me was like

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the dumbest thing I've ever heard, Like, yeah, so we

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only talked to one team because we're afraid of him

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lowering his trade value if it got out, because there

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are twenty on five other of the teams the one

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in him. Like what wait, you just kept you're countering

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yourself there like, what the fuck? That's the dumbest shit

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I've ever heard.

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Speaker 1: Do you know what? It would have actively been more

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effective messaging Luka Doncich hates puppies. Yeah, people are like,

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you know what? Okay? To your point, I.

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Speaker 2: Think it has to be more dramatic that it has

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to be like Luka Doncice went went down the stage

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in a local comedy club, brought sixteen puppies and proceeded

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to crack their heads like in front of like that

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has to be no, no, But that's the messaging like that,

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that has to be the thing that has Dallas fans going,

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oh right, it's fair enough, that's the standard.

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Speaker 1: Right, and now you find themselves when looking at them,

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because I'm open to the idea of this team could

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be really good if they're healthy, which that would have

268
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been a question mark with Chuka to be fair of

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this season. But like the player they need. Now it's

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not to me looking at another guy who can generate

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shots for himself and others, but that player, to me,

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because you have Kyrie, also needs to have size. And

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so I just that a roundabout way of saying you

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kind of need Luka in this situation, which is just so. Yeah,

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there's different types of players for that, but I'm open

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to them being really good, I think even at full strength, though,

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I just can't if they're especially if they're gonna have

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Anthony Davis at the four, and then if you don't,

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it's oh so Derek Lively when he's healthy, he's on

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the bench. That's not fun. I'll be curious to see

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what they do this offseason, because I do think they

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need to reorient the roster or at least convince ad that, like, hey,

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we have perimeter defenders, you can play the five. It's like,

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this isn't the Lakers.

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Speaker 2: We gave the Mavvericks about seven minutes more than they deserved.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's I feel bad. I'm not even trying to

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dump on the MAVs fans specific I feel bad for

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MAVs fans.

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Speaker 2: This abs absolutely.

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Speaker 1: I've just tried so hard to understand not even the logic,

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but how this team could be a contender in its

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current form and without another move. I just don't see it. Right.

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Speaker 2: Can I wrap up with on the Maps with something

294
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that I think it's important just to say it out

295
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loud as well, like you should absolutely feel very annoyed

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at Nico Harrison, Like I the death threats to me

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is just like don't like, don't go there. It's like,

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whoever you are, no matter what happened, it's still a sport,

299
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it's still an entertainment. Like, just don't go there. Like

300
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you can go out and protest, you can ask for

301
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his pink slip, you can ask for all those things,

302
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the death threats, and for them to have like to

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install a new security team. That's where like I don't

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like sympathize with Dallas fans anymore. That's where it just

305
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becomes like not just one bridge too far, but like

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three states too far, just can't get there.

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Speaker 1: I agree, But I think the two things that paints

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a broad brush because I I don't think most Mavericks

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fans are no, no, no.

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Speaker 2: I know, I'm basically saying that for the few individuals

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who are trying to ruin the party.

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Speaker 1: But it's also this would be us preaching to the choir,

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because I doubt anyone listening to this podcast or watching

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this podcast has shared any of the sentiments that were

315
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just poo pooing. So you all keep doing what you're doing.

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But yeah, this team, I've said this about a bunch.

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They're gonna be a team to watch over the off season,

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that's for sure. Another team more kind of rolling. They've

319
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dealt with some injuries to Aaron Gordon, now, Peyton Watson,

320
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Russell Westbrook has missed some time. Never Nuggets. I don't know,

321
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is it quietly? They're third in the West as we

322
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record this. Are they yes a contender or pretender?

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Speaker 2: They're a contender, So I thought people panicked about them

324
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way too soon. And I was not one of those

325
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people who were, as you know, let's let's paint the

326
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devil on the wall here during the off season when

327
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they lost KCP. Like, don't get me wrong, I fully acknowledged,

328
00:16:01,559 --> 00:16:05,720
like the process of it all was very faulty, but

329
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they still have nicolea Jokic, the best player in freaking basketball.

330
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Michael Porter Junior has somehow, somehow found a way to

331
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be healthy. I know he's hamsterring right now, but like

332
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knock on wood, like he only missed one game last year,

333
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He's missed one game so far this season. Like that's

334
00:16:24,679 --> 00:16:29,360
those are tremendous. Yeah, you know, assets in a way,

335
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like because for him not to miss games that he

336
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did early on in his career. That's that's one thing

337
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Aaron Gordon has not played to the extent that he's

338
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used to. I think that's cocoa, yes, yes, uh, And

339
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I think that's almost encouraging because that means you're probably

340
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gonna get a rammed up version of him for the playoffs.

341
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Jamal Murray, who we've talked about, has always been like

342
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the big Oh, what's going on there? And it seems

343
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like he's finding some footing, Like it seems like he's

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finally finding it. And to me, it was just like

345
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I would be worried if this was game sixty and

346
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they'd look like they were when they were at game

347
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you know, forty five, then I would be like right

348
00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:12,119
there along inside everyone else and all it's time to

349
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ask some big questions.

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Speaker 1: Here.

351
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Speaker 2: We are fifty three games since of the season thirty

352
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four nineteen. Could that have been better? Sure? But listen,

353
00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:27,400
all things considered, lineup changes, you know, core guys going elsewhere.

354
00:17:28,279 --> 00:17:31,079
This is fine. I trust them. They have Nikola Jokic

355
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in a setting in a playoffs where they go up

356
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against the same team at least four times. Hell yeah,

357
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I'm not cutting I'm not counting them out.

358
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Speaker 1: I agree that they're a contender. I don't know how

359
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to feel, you know, the thing just to because we

360
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hammered them over the offseason. The thing I think that

361
00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:51,759
bothers me most, especially now in hindsight of the KCP stuff.

362
00:17:52,079 --> 00:17:55,200
You kind of touted the importance of having this flexibility

363
00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:57,680
of not being okay, not being in the second apron

364
00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,759
the frozen draft teams care about that, and I think

365
00:18:01,279 --> 00:18:04,119
I might have even underestimated the extent to which they

366
00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,480
care and the importance of unfreezing that. But like you

367
00:18:06,519 --> 00:18:08,599
also kind of touted the ability of well, this we

368
00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:11,519
can aggregate and this makes it easier to pull off

369
00:18:11,519 --> 00:18:14,319
subsequent moves. And then you did nothing at the trade,

370
00:18:14,319 --> 00:18:17,160
so you don't get to tout flexibility and then you

371
00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:20,480
use that flexibility to get Dariosharich and then do absolutely

372
00:18:20,559 --> 00:18:23,079
nothing else. Really, so I think that's the bigger criticism.

373
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,240
What I don't know this team. I think Jamal Murray,

374
00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,200
he turned a corner a while ago. Offensively, that's been great.

375
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:33,240
Michael Porter Junior is just on a tear right now,

376
00:18:33,319 --> 00:18:35,359
and that if this is the Michael Porter Junior they

377
00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:39,640
get in the postseason, it is Curtains against any team

378
00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:44,880
that's not okay see to me, But what is I

379
00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:47,759
can't figure out what they are defensively. I think that's

380
00:18:47,799 --> 00:18:50,240
where they would miss CACP the most is in a

381
00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:55,559
playoff series when it comes to scheme flexibility or lineup malleability.

382
00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:57,680
And I watched them. The data is not going to

383
00:18:57,720 --> 00:18:59,240
be kind to their defense. For the most part, it's

384
00:18:59,279 --> 00:19:01,359
been better since January one. I think they're eleven to

385
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:05,440
points loud per possession, but they're twenty fourth against top

386
00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,920
twenty offenses overall. And I just don't you could say

387
00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:11,880
that if Gordon is healthy and Pete Gordon that'll help

388
00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:15,119
a ton. I just if Peyton Watson and Christian Brown

389
00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:17,839
are healthy. There are different levers they can pull. I

390
00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:21,680
worry about their defense though, more this year than I

391
00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:24,160
did last year, And for some reason, it does feel

392
00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:27,680
like it's born more from than just KCP leaving, because

393
00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:29,799
he wasn't even when you look at their performance against

394
00:19:29,799 --> 00:19:32,319
the Wolves, he wasn't even part of necessarily the answer

395
00:19:32,599 --> 00:19:36,200
defensively for them. And I don't know what I'm struggling

396
00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,119
with specifically with their defense. We know Aaron Gordon's gonna

397
00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:41,559
be the backup five in the playoffs. That's actually good

398
00:19:41,759 --> 00:19:43,720
for them. I want to make that clear. I think

399
00:19:43,759 --> 00:19:47,759
it's just I wonder if their best lineup whatever you

400
00:19:47,839 --> 00:19:50,039
consider that now because Russell Westbrook's in the fold, or

401
00:19:50,039 --> 00:19:53,799
if their best lineups are gonna have enough defensive juice

402
00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:57,440
over the course of a long enough span to be

403
00:19:57,559 --> 00:20:00,559
a title heavyweight, but they are. Just to make it clear,

404
00:20:00,599 --> 00:20:03,200
I think they're maybe I've equivocated on this at points

405
00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:06,240
this season as we were heading into the All Star break.

406
00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,400
They are absolutely title contenders, and I think you can

407
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:10,839
make a real case that they are one of the

408
00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:13,440
five best title contenders right now.

409
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:16,400
Speaker 2: I think your issue defensively, which is an issue I

410
00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:18,559
have too, is the fact that they're twenty fifth in

411
00:20:18,599 --> 00:20:22,000
the league enforcing turnovers. That's not great, Like you have

412
00:20:22,079 --> 00:20:25,039
to get some stops that leads to easy offense for sure.

413
00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:27,640
The fact that they're not getting those in a regular

414
00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,960
season setting, I understand why that would lead some credence

415
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:32,920
to thinking, oh, that's going to be even tougher to

416
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,799
do in a playoff context, where teams that they're going

417
00:20:35,839 --> 00:20:37,680
to go up against are going to be far more

418
00:20:37,799 --> 00:20:41,839
focused on proper ball handling, like more safe passes and whatnot.

419
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:45,559
So I think that's a major key, the fact that

420
00:20:45,599 --> 00:20:51,960
they don't have this you know, shot blocking ressence near

421
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,640
the rim. And they do have Peyton Watson, but he

422
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:56,960
plays like what twenty four minutes per game, so it's

423
00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,000
like it's not constantly and even when he's on the floor,

424
00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,200
is still like won a game. So they don't have

425
00:21:03,079 --> 00:21:08,559
this consistent presence such just constantly challenge shots. Jokic I

426
00:21:08,599 --> 00:21:12,160
think does pretty well considering how often seems targeted, and

427
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,319
they usually stop doing so because they realize, oh, like,

428
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:19,960
he gets more stops than we're anticipating of him. And

429
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,799
I think that's the way they survive. But you're right,

430
00:21:22,799 --> 00:21:25,839
they do need something. They do need some type of

431
00:21:26,039 --> 00:21:29,000
X factor thrown in there. I think next season is

432
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,920
going to be more obvious in a way for them

433
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,279
because I think Bruce Brown is coming back as free

434
00:21:34,319 --> 00:21:36,640
agent this summer. I would be shocked if he wasn't.

435
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:38,559
Speaker 1: He loved. Do you think his market's going to be

436
00:21:38,759 --> 00:21:40,240
the mini mid level?

437
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:43,440
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think so, First and foremost think I think

438
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:46,240
he would sacrifice that he got paid. He spent the

439
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:50,319
two years getting paid. Mike Malone absolutely loves the guy.

440
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,079
I think he's he's missed out a little bit on

441
00:21:53,519 --> 00:21:55,759
being relevant over the course of the last two years.

442
00:21:55,799 --> 00:21:57,799
I think he misses that. I think he's gonna come

443
00:21:57,839 --> 00:22:00,880
back and he's going to add that bench defensive presence

444
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,839
where he's just all over the floor being that connector

445
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,599
guy they kind of miss now, but that's a year

446
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,400
from now. Whether they can win the title right now,

447
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:13,039
that's that's probably a bigger bed. But I just can't

448
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,839
rule them out. I mean, it's call k this is

449
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,359
arguably a top ten player of all time in his

450
00:22:18,799 --> 00:22:22,279
arguably best season ever, and we're sitting here talking about

451
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,160
whether they're a contender or not. I just can't with

452
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:26,400
a straight face either or not.

453
00:22:26,599 --> 00:22:29,960
Speaker 1: Well, we we equivocated on the Bucks and may have Giannis,

454
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,880
so there's a path to them not being But I

455
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,759
would ask this because there's an alternative in the East

456
00:22:36,039 --> 00:22:39,960
when it's the West, aside from OKC, Like, which team

457
00:22:40,039 --> 00:22:42,319
do you trust more to win the title than Denver?

458
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,559
Speaker 2: Yeah? No one, yep, And that's I.

459
00:22:45,519 --> 00:22:47,400
Speaker 1: Mean, like, when you have the best player in the

460
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:49,400
world and that can be the answer, then yeah, that

461
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:50,680
that that certainly matters, right.

462
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,880
Speaker 2: I do think that that answer changes though next year

463
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:57,559
as well, even if you do get Bruce Brown onto

464
00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:01,240
the Nuggets, because there are a couple of teams that

465
00:23:01,279 --> 00:23:03,799
are coming, like the Rockets next year could be dangerous

466
00:23:03,799 --> 00:23:06,799
as hell if they make the same sort of internal

467
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,440
leap next year the Spurts We're gonna talk about in

468
00:23:10,559 --> 00:23:14,640
a coming episode as well. It's almost like the Nuggets

469
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,119
are a little bit on the clock too. Well, they're

470
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:18,680
certainly on the clock, I almost You know.

471
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 1: What's tough with this team too, is that you say,

472
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,519
like Bruce Brown could like make a big difference for them,

473
00:23:23,519 --> 00:23:26,839
and I guess I don't disagree. I'm not entirely sure,

474
00:23:26,839 --> 00:23:30,279
Like what the archetype of player they need to finish

475
00:23:30,319 --> 00:23:32,720
out the rotation that would make me feel way better

476
00:23:32,759 --> 00:23:35,000
about their title chances than I do right now, and

477
00:23:35,039 --> 00:23:37,480
where in the past that was probably a vote of

478
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,079
confidence and like, oh this is just peak Nuggets. Yeah,

479
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,319
there's something here that they feel more vulnerable, But I

480
00:23:42,319 --> 00:23:44,680
can't quite place my finger on what they could have

481
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:49,079
done that would have actually solved it. So I it's

482
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,880
it is the defense for me overall, when like, based

483
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:53,799
off what I've seen from them this year, but I

484
00:23:53,799 --> 00:23:55,799
think that they have they have a lot of guys

485
00:23:55,839 --> 00:23:59,640
hitting strides at the moment, and I think specifically MPJ

486
00:23:59,799 --> 00:24:02,480
and Maul Murray and like if you get Aaron like

487
00:24:02,559 --> 00:24:05,960
full strength Aaron Gordon for the playoffs, but I actually

488
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,000
I think you make the case like Michael Porter Junior

489
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,920
is probably the single most important swing factor when it

490
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,119
comes to the championship race, or at least for these Nuggets,

491
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,359
and the way that he's been playing is incredible for them.

492
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,720
Next team up, the Golden State Warriors, who now have

493
00:24:20,839 --> 00:24:25,039
Jimmy Butler more title contender or pretender.

494
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:28,119
Speaker 2: Pretender but exciting pretender.

495
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 1: You want to elaborate on that, or you want.

496
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:35,440
Speaker 2: To do I do? I can't. So they had to

497
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:37,920
do something for Steph. This This was one of those

498
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,279
things where they just didn't want Steph to play with

499
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:42,839
nothing over the next couple of years, and that's the

500
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:46,279
right way to go about it. The acquisition of Jimmy

501
00:24:46,279 --> 00:24:51,119
Butler just not throw them or catapult him into contender status,

502
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,319
but it does raise them on level to the point

503
00:24:54,319 --> 00:24:58,359
where instill being you know, outside the plane, they're going

504
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,720
to be in the play and maybe e even next

505
00:25:00,799 --> 00:25:04,920
year under a full training camp together, maybe they even

506
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,079
sneak in as a top sixteen that I won't rule

507
00:25:08,079 --> 00:25:12,119
that out, But in terms of like championship equity, I

508
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,440
don't think it's there. I just think they got better

509
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,279
and they're in a way relevant for the rest of

510
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:21,599
Steph's career. Like they're going to be that team nobody

511
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,960
wants to play, but they're not gonna win enough games

512
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,720
to ever really make you question, oh, can they get

513
00:25:29,759 --> 00:25:31,440
all the way because the answer is going to be

514
00:25:31,599 --> 00:25:35,799
thoroughly no, unless someone on that team under the age

515
00:25:35,839 --> 00:25:40,880
of twenty five preferably takes a major step and it's like, oh, yeah, no,

516
00:25:41,039 --> 00:25:47,160
I'm the guy moving forward, be that Pods, be that Kuminga,

517
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:51,240
be that most of Smoodie like what. I just don't

518
00:25:51,319 --> 00:25:53,680
have faith in any of those guys too.

519
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 1: So I'm hesitant to say this because I've become a

520
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:01,240
big believer that unless you're dealing with the quint essentially

521
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:06,039
scalable player, making additions mid season or even like close

522
00:26:06,079 --> 00:26:09,640
to training camp the middle of training camp is insanely difficult.

523
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:11,799
And I think we've seen it in Minnesota with Julius

524
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:13,680
Randall and then less so in New York with Karl

525
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,279
Anthony Towns. Because of how plug and play he is,

526
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,160
and Jimmy Butler, as good as he is, isn't necessarily

527
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,319
plug and play. With all of that in mind, I'm

528
00:26:22,319 --> 00:26:27,119
gonna go with contender. One of their biggest issues not

529
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,000
just this year, but we're talking about even the Kevin

530
00:26:29,039 --> 00:26:31,640
Durant era at points, but since the Kevin Durant era,

531
00:26:31,799 --> 00:26:35,519
for sure, the minutes without Steph Curry, they are getting

532
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:40,119
positively destroyed again this year, and Jimmy Butler more so

533
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:44,920
than Andrew Wiggins, more so than Draymond Green, like you, Ken,

534
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:46,759
and I know Andrew Wiggins isn't on the team anymore.

535
00:26:46,799 --> 00:26:49,599
If anyone listening, it was just that Andrew Wiggins was

536
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:51,880
part of the opportunity costs for Jimmy Butler. He can

537
00:26:52,519 --> 00:26:55,839
run the offense without Steph Curry on the floor. Now

538
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,400
do they have enough shooting to capitalize on that. It's

539
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:00,920
weird that I find myself worrying more about their full

540
00:27:01,279 --> 00:27:04,240
strength lineups than their secondary ones, where it's, oh, how

541
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:08,279
do you play Draymond Kaminga and Jimmy Butler together? You certainly,

542
00:27:08,279 --> 00:27:11,000
to me can't have a big on the court during that,

543
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:12,960
And then it's okay, So it has to be Steph

544
00:27:13,039 --> 00:27:15,519
and Buddy healed would be the answer at that point.

545
00:27:15,839 --> 00:27:18,599
But I look at the different lineup flexibility they have

546
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,680
and specifically what they're able to do without Steph. It

547
00:27:21,839 --> 00:27:24,640
makes them more dangerous in the regular season, which to

548
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:26,839
me makes it more likely they can get into the

549
00:27:26,839 --> 00:27:29,440
top six in the West. Only three losses separate them.

550
00:27:29,799 --> 00:27:33,039
I'm encouraged. And again it was the first game Jimmy

551
00:27:33,039 --> 00:27:34,759
Butler had a set like a season high for the

552
00:27:34,799 --> 00:27:36,960
number of screens that he set when he played the

553
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,400
Bulls with the Warriors, if they're gonna use him like

554
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,039
that and they can, like I just believe through Steph's

555
00:27:42,079 --> 00:27:44,880
gravity that all things are possible on the offensive end,

556
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:47,920
maybe they have to get in by way of the plane.

557
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:53,319
I think they're gonna be really dangerous, especially because what player,

558
00:27:54,279 --> 00:27:57,920
for all his flaws of availability, maybe your problem with

559
00:27:57,920 --> 00:27:59,400
his attitude, the way he goes about things, some of

560
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,240
the limitation on even his game. Jimmy Butler in the

561
00:28:02,279 --> 00:28:05,400
playoffs is just a different type of He is superstar,

562
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:08,559
and so I think to have two of those guys

563
00:28:08,759 --> 00:28:11,279
on the roster and him and Steph, and I still

564
00:28:11,319 --> 00:28:16,279
think the defensive ceiling on this team is pretty incredibly high.

565
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:18,920
I'm gonna lean contender. I don't feel great about this one,

566
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:20,880
but I think I think they can make a Ruckus

567
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:21,680
in the West.

568
00:28:22,079 --> 00:28:24,160
Speaker 2: I think they're a little old, but I hear you.

569
00:28:24,279 --> 00:28:28,119
I mean it's if it happens, I'm not gonna be shocked,

570
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,559
but I'm gonna be surprised. That's probably the way I

571
00:28:30,599 --> 00:28:34,559
will phrase it. I definitely think there is a ceiling

572
00:28:34,599 --> 00:28:39,359
on this team. Also in part of the combustibility of

573
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,200
Jimmy Butler just being Jimmy's butler.

574
00:28:42,599 --> 00:28:44,799
Speaker 1: Here's my thing. He got paid and it was I

575
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:46,480
was asked on another show the other day, like, what

576
00:28:46,519 --> 00:28:48,559
do you make of Jimmy Butler saying his joy is back?

577
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:50,960
And I was like, it's amazing what the extension you

578
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,839
always wanted can do for your joy right at work.

579
00:28:54,279 --> 00:28:58,319
So I just maybe over the offseason, like if you

580
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,279
if he wanted to agitate to get out or something,

581
00:29:00,279 --> 00:29:02,839
because he didn't have Golden State on his initial preferred

582
00:29:02,839 --> 00:29:06,519
list of destinations. I guess I'm just less concerned about

583
00:29:06,559 --> 00:29:10,640
the emotional combustibility component than you are.

584
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:16,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's fair. I'm probably just being a little

585
00:29:16,119 --> 00:29:20,559
nervous about the Butler green Well fit like personality wise.

586
00:29:21,039 --> 00:29:24,519
Speaker 1: Which and functionally too on offense, I don't necessarily know

587
00:29:24,559 --> 00:29:27,599
how that And by the way, this is underminds everything

588
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:31,000
I just said. You're the they are eleventh in the

589
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,200
Western Conference, Like, that's not you don't call eleventh place

590
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,640
a contender. So I'm very much like venturing into the

591
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:39,920
theoretical here, and I recognize it to read. So I

592
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:41,880
don't even think you're not the one who needs to

593
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:42,839
defend your point.

594
00:29:43,599 --> 00:29:46,359
Speaker 2: But I think you do raise some good points. And

595
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,359
again for me, it's just again it's about the young guys,

596
00:29:50,359 --> 00:29:54,160
because if you have that secondary group of players who

597
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:58,559
are in their early twenties, if they somehow find a

598
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:02,839
way to make that taking their rotation their own, and

599
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:08,160
they can somehow, you know, eight the first unit in

600
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:12,319
a way that they haven't shown before, that changes the narrative.

601
00:30:12,319 --> 00:30:14,799
From my perspective as well. I just think we've seen

602
00:30:14,839 --> 00:30:17,920
them so much. Like Jonathan Comena, for example, we're looking

603
00:30:18,079 --> 00:30:21,119
at almost two hundred and fifty games over the course

604
00:30:21,119 --> 00:30:23,519
of his career. We're looking at almost, you know, fifty

605
00:30:23,519 --> 00:30:28,799
five hundred minutes. He's good, but he's never really stepped

606
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,680
up to the plate where we're like, oh, he's that dude, right.

607
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:34,200
We haven't seen it from Pots, we haven't seen it

608
00:30:34,279 --> 00:30:36,880
from Tray Saxon Davis, we haven't seen them from Moody.

609
00:30:37,279 --> 00:30:40,720
So it's like, yeah, you have the main core of Steph, Jimmy,

610
00:30:40,799 --> 00:30:44,960
Draymond Cool, and I guess Healed in some capacity just

611
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,440
because he'll need to play a ton of minutes next

612
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:52,119
to those guys. I'm just looking for what else is there?

613
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,680
Do I trust that that young group of guys to

614
00:30:54,799 --> 00:30:58,160
come in and be ready to play while those guys

615
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,720
are chasing titles because they have to at that age,

616
00:31:00,759 --> 00:31:03,279
they have to. They can't sit around and just going

617
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:07,039
let's not do anything. They're gonna chase titles. So unless

618
00:31:07,079 --> 00:31:10,960
we're looking at that, or they make a trade during

619
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:12,960
the off season, but then we're not looking at this year,

620
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,400
then we're looking for next year. I just have a

621
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:16,839
hard time piecing that together.

622
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 1: We are onto the Houston Rockets more contender or pretender.

623
00:31:24,079 --> 00:31:29,519
Speaker 2: That's such a good question. I don't know. So, Okay,

624
00:31:29,559 --> 00:31:31,759
I'm gonna be harsh. I'm gonna be harsh. I don't

625
00:31:31,799 --> 00:31:34,039
want to be harsh, but I have to. I'm gonna

626
00:31:34,039 --> 00:31:38,480
say pretender because the spacing element and their offensive fluidity

627
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:43,240
is it's a little too volatile for my taste at

628
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:48,160
this point in time. I don't trust her offense yet.

629
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:52,279
I might be getting there eventually, but I'm not there yet. Defensively,

630
00:31:52,319 --> 00:31:55,759
I trust them, I trust what they have on that

631
00:31:55,839 --> 00:31:58,200
end of the floor, no doubt. I love the fact

632
00:31:58,200 --> 00:31:59,960
that they didn't go for it in the off season,

633
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:04,680
like accelerate their timeline or anything like. They they kept building,

634
00:32:04,839 --> 00:32:08,200
they kept adding. I think they have so many intriguing pieces.

635
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,319
There are some pieces that I probably would want to

636
00:32:10,319 --> 00:32:16,240
pivot off off pretty soon, but that's a different conversation. Again,

637
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:21,559
the offense just seems wildly inefficient. I mean, Fredmanlee not

638
00:32:21,599 --> 00:32:24,119
even cracking forty nine percent shooting from the field. Jalen

639
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:28,440
Green again, you know, pretty pedestrian efficiency wise. The same

640
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:30,240
case to be said for Dylan Brooks. So you have

641
00:32:30,359 --> 00:32:35,160
three starters with at best, sorry with you know, at

642
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:40,000
best middling efficiency. Is that going to be a mason,

643
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:42,880
you know, a major asset for them coming into the playoffs?

644
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:43,680
I don't think.

645
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:43,799
Speaker 1: So.

646
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,599
Speaker 2: You're gonna need spacing, You're gonna need opportunities, and especially

647
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,559
as a'm and Thompson has developed over the course of

648
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:53,160
this year. You know, you're gonna need spacing to open

649
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:57,119
up driving lanes for him, and they have some volume

650
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,680
behind it, Like Fred, Jalen and Brooks all take a

651
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,960
ton of threes. That's great, but when you're not hitting

652
00:33:03,039 --> 00:33:07,279
them at a particularly high clib I'm guessing that teams

653
00:33:07,279 --> 00:33:09,720
are gonna play the you know, the analytics card in

654
00:33:09,759 --> 00:33:11,720
the playoffs and go, yeah, you know what we can.

655
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:13,839
We can sort of sack off right a little bit.

656
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:15,839
We can sack off jailing a little bit. That's fine,

657
00:33:16,599 --> 00:33:19,039
And I'm guessing that the guy they want to make

658
00:33:19,039 --> 00:33:21,519
sure not gets into the ts of the defense of Saminsopson,

659
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,680
and if they can close that off, oh boy, it's

660
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,839
gonna be hard for the Rockets to generate Deacy offense. Yeah.

661
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:29,559
Speaker 1: I do think what he's had to go through this

662
00:33:29,599 --> 00:33:31,720
season will probably help him long term of just like

663
00:33:31,759 --> 00:33:33,440
in terms of getting the mid range and kind of

664
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,519
throwing up some funky shots there. But I would agree

665
00:33:36,519 --> 00:33:38,599
with everything I think you said. I just it boils

666
00:33:38,599 --> 00:33:41,559
down to me. We've seen not this exact movie before,

667
00:33:41,759 --> 00:33:44,279
but they are on the bottom five of three point

668
00:33:44,319 --> 00:33:48,720
attempt rate three point attempt accuracy and half court efficiency.

669
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,039
So for a team that relies on offensive rebounding and

670
00:33:52,079 --> 00:33:54,960
getting out in transition a ton, you're just at a

671
00:33:55,279 --> 00:33:58,519
no matter how great your defense is, you're at a

672
00:33:58,599 --> 00:34:02,039
disadvantage in the playoff when teams have an extended period

673
00:34:02,079 --> 00:34:05,680
of time to game plan around you. And even though

674
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,199
you might want Jalen Green or Fred Van Fleet to

675
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:12,320
be more efficient, the fact that you're so reliant on

676
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,920
what they're doing now that if they even drop off

677
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,519
by like a hair or two or a couple steps,

678
00:34:18,199 --> 00:34:21,960
that's really tough. And you do have when like when

679
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:24,480
Shangun is healthy, he is an All Star, so you

680
00:34:24,519 --> 00:34:28,360
could maybe counter with that. I just don't think they

681
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,079
either don't have that player on the roster or shng

682
00:34:31,159 --> 00:34:34,320
Goon or Jalen Green or am and Thompson has yet

683
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,000
to develop into that player who could really be the

684
00:34:37,079 --> 00:34:40,559
engine of inn above average half court offense in like

685
00:34:40,679 --> 00:34:43,719
first shot half court offense in the postseason. And that's

686
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,400
why I would say pretender. And I do think because

687
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:48,360
of their record and standing in the West, that will

688
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,800
grade on certain Rockets fans Specifically, I don't think you're

689
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:53,599
supposed to be a contender right now. I don't want

690
00:34:53,599 --> 00:34:55,039
to say this has found money, but you want to

691
00:34:55,039 --> 00:34:57,960
be in the information gathering business of let's see what

692
00:34:58,000 --> 00:34:59,719
happens in the playoffs. Maybe some of the stuff you

693
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:01,760
and I I have said turns out to be wrong,

694
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,559
or it could be a situation like the Orlando Magic

695
00:35:04,639 --> 00:35:08,280
last year. They lost exactly how everyone expected them to lose.

696
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:10,599
And so but once you get that information, it should

697
00:35:10,639 --> 00:35:13,480
be easier to even the OKA. See against Dallas last year,

698
00:35:13,519 --> 00:35:15,079
what did they do. I don't know if they went

699
00:35:15,119 --> 00:35:17,239
and addressed every issue, but they went and addressed like

700
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,599
some of their biggest problems by getting Isaiah Hartenstein. So

701
00:35:20,679 --> 00:35:23,199
this is important for the Rockets. They don't need to

702
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,400
be at that contender level. We can move on now,

703
00:35:26,519 --> 00:35:29,320
unless you have anything else to say to Los Angeles Clippers,

704
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:32,480
who look more. If we were doing this in July

705
00:35:32,559 --> 00:35:34,239
and you told me we'd be talking about them on

706
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:36,880
this podcast in February, I would have told you were

707
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:37,280
an idiot.

708
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:41,239
Speaker 2: Yep, oh I still am. But like that's this one

709
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:42,480
in particularly has nothing.

710
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:43,079
Speaker 1: To do with your clipper.

711
00:35:43,159 --> 00:35:46,559
Speaker 2: The Clippers though, right, and look even if you if

712
00:35:46,599 --> 00:35:49,639
you bake that in and you also said, Oh, and

713
00:35:49,679 --> 00:35:52,440
by the way, James Harden would be hitting thirty nine

714
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:56,960
percent of his shots for the year. Like everything about

715
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,920
this is just so wild that I'm going to go pretender.

716
00:36:00,079 --> 00:36:03,639
I don't trust it. I just don't. This is too weird, man.

717
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 1: I look, I agree with you, and I think I

718
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,119
would have to lean pretender as well, because I don't

719
00:36:12,159 --> 00:36:15,800
know what the We know what the remedy might be

720
00:36:16,199 --> 00:36:18,519
to their offensive, which is like their defense is just

721
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:22,960
close to no notes here, but the offense. Will Kui

722
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:24,960
be healthy enough? And even if he is, like you

723
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:27,559
still kind of need bugged up Bogdanovich to hit shots,

724
00:36:27,599 --> 00:36:30,599
which is something that he has not done consistently this year.

725
00:36:31,559 --> 00:36:34,800
But what I will say, which is why I almost

726
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,280
want to say contender, because of Kawi's healthy Like there

727
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:42,079
is a pathway to their offense being materially better than

728
00:36:42,079 --> 00:36:44,639
it has been this season. And it's not like it

729
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:46,840
because it's a pathway. We're past the trade deadline, so

730
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,599
it has to do with the roster and the personnel

731
00:36:49,599 --> 00:36:53,840
that's already in place. I don't feel good about saying that,

732
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,039
but I do think given James Harden's postseason track record

733
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:00,800
and like as good as Bugdanovic is like a secondary

734
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,400
or tertiary shot creator, he has not been that this year,

735
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:06,400
and there are also limitations to that. So when you're

736
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:10,119
getting into all right, we have Kawhi, Norman Powell, James Harden,

737
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,280
and Bogdanovich is just sort of your primary offensive weapons,

738
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:16,920
it does feel like there's enough question marks there or

739
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,760
holes in everyone's game on offense, even if Kawhi's hold

740
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,239
is his durability to where you have to default to

741
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:26,280
questioning it yep.

742
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,679
Speaker 2: I mean, look, that is the perfect way to summon

743
00:37:29,679 --> 00:37:33,840
it all up. I mean, let's just take look Norman

744
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:36,599
Powell for example. I love the guy, and he fights

745
00:37:36,599 --> 00:37:39,400
hard on defense. He's not a bad defender. Obviously, his

746
00:37:39,519 --> 00:37:44,559
offense this year has been tremendous, extremely underrated still six

747
00:37:44,639 --> 00:37:48,000
' four, Like teams are going to target him with

748
00:37:48,079 --> 00:37:50,440
bigger players. There are gonna be guys who are six

749
00:37:50,519 --> 00:37:53,480
seven to six eight who are going to somehow find

750
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:55,960
themselves with him guarding them, and they are going to

751
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,199
be able to take that matchup and make the most

752
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:01,440
of it. And that's not say anything bad about Norman Pole.

753
00:38:01,559 --> 00:38:05,159
He's not his fault. He six four. So the size

754
00:38:05,199 --> 00:38:09,119
is an issue. You know, Subach obviously is I consider

755
00:38:09,199 --> 00:38:11,400
him a very strong defender around the rim. I think

756
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:15,159
he's dramatically underrated in that aspect, even though he's not

757
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:19,800
a quote unquote strong shot blocker, but his he's just

758
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:23,079
so huge. That's great. But he's also a guy, like

759
00:38:23,159 --> 00:38:25,280
if you succeed to get him out on the perimeter,

760
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:27,920
he can be beat. So again, it's like, I think

761
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:29,880
you just you nailed it so well, Like there are

762
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,880
all these fantastic elements of all these players, but when

763
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:36,559
you really break it down, each and everyone have issues

764
00:38:36,639 --> 00:38:40,599
that you can sort of use against them. So I

765
00:38:40,639 --> 00:38:43,039
don't know. I like, let's let's put it up this way.

766
00:38:43,079 --> 00:38:45,800
If they actually make it to the final somehow and

767
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,480
they meet the Boston let's just say, you know, that's

768
00:38:48,519 --> 00:38:52,239
that's the theoretical here. That's a that's a clean suite

769
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:57,119
from Boston's perspective, Like, how how do they like? How

770
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,280
I just don't see a pathway you have?

771
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,039
Speaker 1: Like what are you more worried about in that situation

772
00:39:04,079 --> 00:39:04,679
I'm working?

773
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:08,159
Speaker 2: Look, I have Boston as two weight for us, right, Like, yeah,

774
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:11,159
we consider and talk about the Clippers defense all day long,

775
00:39:11,639 --> 00:39:14,000
but for a team that Jack's up fifty threes with

776
00:39:14,119 --> 00:39:17,960
high regularity, and where you can get teams out you know,

777
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:21,119
on and floor deep, where you can utilize those matchups

778
00:39:21,159 --> 00:39:23,880
and like blow right past them. I just that's that's

779
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:27,440
a team where I think their current defensive rating, their

780
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:31,159
current defensive proficiency just isn't up to par. And then

781
00:39:31,199 --> 00:39:33,320
when you add in that their offense is kind of

782
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,320
all over the place. I just can't trust them at

783
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:40,719
this level. Like I would be pleasantly surprised though, if

784
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,440
you wind up being no, you didn't say. You didn't

785
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:45,639
say they were a consenter. My apologies, I'm putting words

786
00:39:45,639 --> 00:39:46,000
in your mind.

787
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 1: Well I'm like sort of undecided, Okay, if you're let's

788
00:39:49,519 --> 00:39:52,199
just assume you said there were contenders, Like that would

789
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:55,639
be so fun to watch if that actually happened, if

790
00:39:55,639 --> 00:39:57,360
that materialized.

791
00:39:56,639 --> 00:39:59,320
Speaker 2: And they became like a real Western Conference power force

792
00:40:00,039 --> 00:40:02,360
over the course of the next couple of months, Like

793
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:04,920
books would have to be written about this.

794
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 1: The thing I just keep coming back to and I

795
00:40:08,519 --> 00:40:11,199
get the samples not huge, They're like a plus seventeen

796
00:40:11,199 --> 00:40:14,480
per one hundred win Kawhi, Norm and Harden Yeah play together.

797
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 2: I just so fair.

798
00:40:17,199 --> 00:40:19,280
Speaker 1: They have so many different, like good two way lineups.

799
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:21,000
They can feel that if I what if I told

800
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:25,719
you this, Bodan Bogdanovic by the time the playoffs start

801
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:28,400
is the player that we either start over the summer

802
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:30,800
or at least with the Hawks last year, Would that

803
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:33,000
change your verdict here?

804
00:40:33,679 --> 00:40:37,519
Speaker 2: I mean, if we're also baking in that Kawhi as

805
00:40:37,559 --> 00:40:40,039
he's ramping up, is going to go back to you know,

806
00:40:40,159 --> 00:40:44,679
full on ka why superstar? Yes, that's gonna.

807
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 1: Change you know what? You say that and he's definitely

808
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:51,079
that guy still, But you can't it has to be

809
00:40:51,119 --> 00:40:54,840
pretenders just because of the Kawhi durability stuff at this point,

810
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,639
Like you're I think you're That's maybe the most simple

811
00:40:57,679 --> 00:40:59,599
point I could make, but I think it's the most salient.

812
00:41:00,079 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 2: You lured me in to saying that if A, B

813
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:06,400
and C happened, they'll be contenders, and then you just

814
00:41:06,599 --> 00:41:09,519
drop kick me by saying, oh no, no, there they're pretenders.

815
00:41:09,679 --> 00:41:10,519
They're actually pretending.

816
00:41:10,559 --> 00:41:13,880
Speaker 1: I want I want to call them contenders, but like,

817
00:41:14,519 --> 00:41:17,800
is that me being too generous to what we've seen

818
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,239
from one Bogdanovich this year and then just what we

819
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,639
know has happened to Kawhi basically year over year.

820
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,320
Speaker 2: I mean, that's why I'm baking that into not having

821
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:31,840
them as a contender. I mean, Kawhi is so consistently injured,

822
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:34,760
first and foremost, I don't think that they have the size. Also,

823
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:37,920
I'm gonna be completely honest about this, I still don't

824
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,119
trust James Harden in a playoff series.

825
00:41:40,159 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 1: Necessarily. That's also fair.

826
00:41:42,199 --> 00:41:45,039
Speaker 2: I just don't. I still think, despite the fact that

827
00:41:45,039 --> 00:41:48,199
he's thirty five forty six, he makes just so many

828
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:50,840
boneheaded decisions at times where I'm just like, Nope, I

829
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:54,320
can't trust it in a playoff context. Derek Jones Junior.

830
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:56,760
Do I trust the spacing that he's shown in the

831
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:58,840
regular season? Do I trust that will carry over to

832
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:03,039
the postseason? Probably not. Chris Dunn already one of the

833
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:08,199
most let's just say, inconsistent offensive players in the in

834
00:42:08,039 --> 00:42:10,920
the in the league who's getting regular minutes. Is there

835
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:13,719
another drop off from him in the playoffs? Absolutely?

836
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:17,679
Speaker 1: Yes, there And another good point too would be the

837
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,880
value of a Chris Dunn or Derek Jones junior. Derek

838
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:22,559
Joronges is a good example because of what kind of

839
00:42:22,559 --> 00:42:24,360
happened in the playoffs that's up by the time for

840
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:27,280
the Mavericks last year. The value of those guys because

841
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:31,199
of their offensive limitations, can drop precipitously in the in

842
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:34,960
the postseason. I really quickly we're both gonna go pretender,

843
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:37,159
although I'm like, very close. Do you feel better about

844
00:42:37,159 --> 00:42:40,719
the Clippers of the Warriors this season?

845
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 2: This season? So again I need to hitch here? What what?

846
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:47,599
What kind of Kawhi Leonard are we looking at? Here?

847
00:42:47,679 --> 00:42:48,639
Is it gonna be healthy?

848
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:51,039
Speaker 1: We know what we know about both of these teams,

849
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:52,880
So it's just that I think that's what you have

850
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:53,679
to base it off of.

851
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:56,039
Speaker 2: If Kawhy is healthy, I trust the Clippers a little

852
00:42:56,039 --> 00:42:57,360
bit more of this particular season.

853
00:42:58,119 --> 00:43:01,079
Speaker 1: Okay, I think that's fair. For our next team is

854
00:43:01,119 --> 00:43:05,039
the Los Angeles Lakers, who do not have Mark Williams.

855
00:43:05,039 --> 00:43:07,039
That trade. We haven't covered it on this podcast yet.

856
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:11,559
Was rescinded. I think the Lakers absolutely dodged a bad

857
00:43:11,599 --> 00:43:15,280
scenario there for them. Just we know about Mark Williams's

858
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:17,760
their ability, but I saw him being painted as someone

859
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:20,719
who could anchor their defense, and I just I know

860
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:22,679
it's a smaller sample size, but I have not gotten

861
00:43:22,679 --> 00:43:26,440
that vibe from any like his macro time with the

862
00:43:27,119 --> 00:43:28,960
Charlotte Hornet, So I think they're better off in the

863
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,840
long run. However, in the short term more they have

864
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:34,599
Christian Wood who is injured in is you have to

865
00:43:34,599 --> 00:43:36,360
play this season, They have Jackson Hayes. Like the big

866
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:39,360
man situation is bleak as of right now. They can't

867
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:42,519
even go sign Bismock Biumbo because the Spurs were smart

868
00:43:42,599 --> 00:43:45,679
enough to go and do that. To attend day. They

869
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:48,119
have Luka Dancic, who, by the time you listen to

870
00:43:48,119 --> 00:43:51,800
this wolf played for the Lakers. They have Lebron James

871
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:55,239
who is still I just my god, that dude is amazing,

872
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,039
like forty years old and just still bowing out. What

873
00:43:57,159 --> 00:43:59,119
are they contenders or And by the way, they also

874
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:01,920
have I know people like to discredit it, but like

875
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:05,000
they're fifth in the West and they're like, they're twelve

876
00:44:05,079 --> 00:44:08,079
games over five hundred. That's not nothing this far into

877
00:44:08,119 --> 00:44:10,559
the season. Are they contenders or pretenders?

878
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:15,639
Speaker 2: Contenders now because they just fleeced the Mavericks in the

879
00:44:15,679 --> 00:44:17,719
most lopside of trade in NBA history.

880
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:21,280
Speaker 1: Yes, but I think the Charlotte trade trade that isn't

881
00:44:21,599 --> 00:44:24,320
was pretty good proof that Rob Polinka should only be

882
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:26,119
allowed to negotiate with Nico Harrison.

883
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:30,800
Speaker 2: There's expelcifity rights. I was actually higher on the Mark

884
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:35,719
Williams trait. I was a lot higher. I like that. Dude. Look,

885
00:44:36,079 --> 00:44:39,119
this is a team that just got a top three

886
00:44:39,679 --> 00:44:43,679
NBA player onto his roster for a very limited return.

887
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:48,880
That player, despite the fact that he's younger than Anthony Davis,

888
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:50,880
and some people will make it sound as though, oh

889
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:53,800
then he's a further away from you know, winning a title.

890
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:57,199
That is Bologney. He's already better. He made the literally

891
00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:00,719
made the finals last year despite having three injuries, and

892
00:45:01,559 --> 00:45:06,119
you know, playing on a fairly flawed rosters is he

893
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:11,119
is just such a unique player. He's gonna come in

894
00:45:11,199 --> 00:45:13,960
and the entire team is gonna have this great ripple effect,

895
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:17,559
the attention given to him and Lebron, both of whom

896
00:45:17,599 --> 00:45:20,960
can have triple doubles whenever they damn well, please, what

897
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,840
are we doing here? Yes, of course they're a contender,

898
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:26,679
ess of right now. That trade just catapulted them straight

899
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:29,719
into it. This is this is ridiculous. You can't double

900
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:33,679
team either of those two guys. The multiple ball handle,

901
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:36,679
the multiple play making them in transition them in even

902
00:45:36,679 --> 00:45:40,320
half court situation. It's them in pigan rolls like what

903
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:42,760
do you do? I'm sorry, Like, what do you do?

904
00:45:43,039 --> 00:45:46,639
Lebron or Luca? Doesn't matter whoever screens for one another,

905
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:50,360
it's just a constant target. And people are like, Okay,

906
00:45:50,519 --> 00:45:52,440
what do we do here? Do we go and set

907
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:54,800
a hard double on Lebron on the drive? Do we

908
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:57,320
push back on Luca? Like what? No, you can't do either.

909
00:45:57,519 --> 00:46:00,320
You can't do either. You're just you're f Then you

910
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:03,679
also have Austin Reeves, who I think has playing played

911
00:46:04,559 --> 00:46:06,679
a little bit under the radar this season. I think

912
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:10,280
a lot of what has been said outside of Lakerland

913
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:12,920
at least has been sort of like, oh, he's fine, No,

914
00:46:13,039 --> 00:46:15,280
he's really good, and the fact that he's also a

915
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:17,960
playmaker and not just you know what. People you know

916
00:46:18,039 --> 00:46:20,280
peg them as initially as a Kyle Korwitz type, which

917
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:24,599
was always wrong. I never got that, by the way,

918
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:30,880
always such a strong playmaker. They have that trio of

919
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:33,159
guys who can stew stuff with the ball, who can

920
00:46:33,199 --> 00:46:39,679
shoot from range, who can playmake, who can rebound. They

921
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:44,159
have three guys of course raves under those two at

922
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:48,599
significant level, but still all of who can just hurt

923
00:46:48,639 --> 00:46:50,800
you and still the number one skill in today's NBA

924
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:54,079
is still shot creation. So when you have oodles upon

925
00:46:54,239 --> 00:47:01,840
oodles upon oodles of that, yeah, you're a championship contender. Absolutely. Yeah.

926
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:05,079
So oh you're gonna get in to the defense, right like, oh,

927
00:47:05,079 --> 00:47:06,480
they're racing a big man. They missed.

928
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:12,039
Speaker 1: Okay, Look, I do think they are to their credit,

929
00:47:12,199 --> 00:47:14,599
they are this season against top ten offenses, they are

930
00:47:14,639 --> 00:47:17,440
seventh in point slaud per possession. When you expand that

931
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:20,960
to top twenty offenses, they're fourteenth in point slab per possession.

932
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:24,559
So they were good enough defensively against teams that they

933
00:47:24,559 --> 00:47:27,119
will face in the playoffs to I think be viewed

934
00:47:27,599 --> 00:47:29,679
more highly than maybe their point differential or some of

935
00:47:29,679 --> 00:47:32,239
their on off splits. With their lineups show they're also

936
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:34,199
their data. When you filter out all the players who

937
00:47:34,199 --> 00:47:36,559
have been traded from them this season, they've not won

938
00:47:36,599 --> 00:47:39,719
the minutes. Like without Anthony Davis and d Low and

939
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:43,119
Max Christi both like the whole nine, the sample size

940
00:47:43,119 --> 00:47:46,320
is sub four hundred possessions. I just the two things.

941
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:49,519
I think Anthony Davis allowed them to punch above their

942
00:47:49,559 --> 00:47:53,840
weight defensively with certain primary lineups and then by default

943
00:47:54,119 --> 00:47:56,360
secondary lineups in a way that I don't think they're

944
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:58,000
gonna be able to do that now. And then I'm

945
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:01,320
also wondering just to kind of to get away from

946
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:03,679
I think everyone just has the concern defensively that I've

947
00:48:03,679 --> 00:48:06,599
mapped at, like, I don't know what's the pathway to

948
00:48:06,639 --> 00:48:08,920
this team being above average on defense. I don't care

949
00:48:09,119 --> 00:48:11,400
right now. Okay, I don't care. Now I want to

950
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:15,000
ask you. I think Luca has maybe transformed is too

951
00:48:15,039 --> 00:48:18,920
strong a word. He's proven more flexible. Yes, looking at

952
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:21,000
his fit on offense, the MAVs the past two seasons

953
00:48:21,039 --> 00:48:23,679
have played faster. This year, he has spent more time

954
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:25,599
away from the ball than ever. So I actually don't

955
00:48:25,639 --> 00:48:28,920
have any qualms about the long term fit between him

956
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:34,760
and Lebron, assuming it is a long term fit. But

957
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:38,639
do you think that we're maybe not concerned enough about, well,

958
00:48:38,639 --> 00:48:41,599
what does this look like immediately? Because they are integrating

959
00:48:42,039 --> 00:48:45,920
not just this huge piece to their team, but someone

960
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:48,920
who is so central to everything that's going to happen

961
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:52,079
that it is going to take time for it all

962
00:48:52,119 --> 00:48:55,440
to gel and there. If this team as constructed was

963
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:57,960
going to become a contender, it's probably not going to happen.

964
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:00,760
While making this integration on the fly.

965
00:49:01,159 --> 00:49:03,440
Speaker 2: I'm not worried about that at all. So this is

966
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:07,280
where the luxury of Lebron James comes in. He's played

967
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:10,280
with Dwayne Wade, He's played with Kyrie Irving, He's played

968
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:14,559
with these high volume, high usage guys before. I understand

969
00:49:14,559 --> 00:49:19,239
he's never played with someone as heliocentric as Luca. But

970
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:22,559
let's also remember the Luca is more than a willing passer,

971
00:49:22,639 --> 00:49:26,960
more than willing to relinquish his own spots. And if

972
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:29,599
there's a guy, if there's a superstar in NBA history,

973
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:33,800
who is more welcoming to have other guys step up

974
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:37,719
and take minutes shots away from his plate and let

975
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:40,159
him allow to be more of a playmaker, it's Lebron James.

976
00:49:40,679 --> 00:49:44,760
I have zero forms of this bit. I think Luca

977
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:47,360
is going to come in on a goddamn mission straight

978
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:49,400
off the bat, and I think Lebron is the guy

979
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:53,000
who's like spurting that on from day one. So we're

980
00:49:53,039 --> 00:49:57,639
recording this Monday, February tenth, a couple hours before game time,

981
00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:00,920
the presumed debut of Luka dontag see if he plays.

982
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:03,599
Let's hope that is the plan. It's in the cart Still,

983
00:50:03,639 --> 00:50:07,920
I believe there's no question in my mind Lebron right

984
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:10,360
now is just egging him out, like go out and

985
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:13,119
take twenty five shots, Like go out there, go go

986
00:50:13,199 --> 00:50:16,639
score fifty. That man is gonna have the entire city

987
00:50:16,679 --> 00:50:19,199
of Los Angeles, the entire roster behind him, just like

988
00:50:19,559 --> 00:50:22,159
you know what used that anchor that you have towards

989
00:50:22,159 --> 00:50:25,119
the trade to help us and when you were a

990
00:50:25,199 --> 00:50:29,400
top three talent. I just don't care what you can argue,

991
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:33,679
Oh the defense, like the plus minus minutes from gate Vincent,

992
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:37,320
I don't give God, damn doesn't matter. You have a

993
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:40,519
guy who's gonna who last year averaged thirty four ten

994
00:50:40,559 --> 00:50:44,119
and nine and dragged his team to the finals with

995
00:50:44,199 --> 00:50:47,480
his teeth. And you're adding that to Lebron James, who

996
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:51,199
has become a sniper, who's still one of the cleverest

997
00:50:51,199 --> 00:50:54,320
players of all time. I'm just not worry Dan. This

998
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:55,440
team's gonna do fine.

999
00:50:56,519 --> 00:51:01,039
Speaker 1: I think you're under as estimating curve that it just

1000
00:51:01,079 --> 00:51:03,960
takes when to superstars to mesh. But I also think

1001
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:06,679
the bigger thing is what did the Dallas Mavericks have

1002
00:51:07,039 --> 00:51:11,719
after the trade deadline last year? Elite defense? Yes, and

1003
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:14,039
that definitely played a role in Luca being able to

1004
00:51:14,079 --> 00:51:16,360
get them to that level. I don't know if this

1005
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:22,440
team is gonna have the same if she's Yeah, but

1006
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:25,400
defense is the other end of the floor is gonna matter?

1007
00:51:26,119 --> 00:51:28,280
I mean, pretender for this season?

1008
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:31,239
Speaker 2: Oh my god? See this, this is where you and

1009
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:34,559
I we always differ. Yeah, You're You're way more defensively

1010
00:51:34,559 --> 00:51:37,079
inclined than I am, and I'm way more The.

1011
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:39,360
Speaker 1: Thing is is I'm not. This is just there? Where

1012
00:51:39,519 --> 00:51:45,639
is how do you build a good like? Is it so? Jackson, Hayes, Ruby, Hotchimore, Lebron, Luca,

1013
00:51:45,679 --> 00:51:49,559
and Austin Reeves? Like where Like who's the above average

1014
00:51:49,559 --> 00:51:51,400
defender in that department?

1015
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:54,599
Speaker 2: Okay, so let's split it around. If that, if you're

1016
00:51:54,599 --> 00:51:57,760
going up against Lebron, James, Austin Reeves, Luca, who are

1017
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:00,119
the other two you mentioned there, Ruby and Jackson in

1018
00:52:00,159 --> 00:52:03,000
all right? Fine, so Jackson Hayst from RUI you can

1019
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:05,880
probably beat those matchups, sure, but like, are you gonna

1020
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:07,760
outscore that at the end of the game. We agree

1021
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:09,960
that a basketball game is determined on who scores the

1022
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:12,880
most the most points, right, I'm just saying, are you

1023
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:16,119
gonna win that? Those matchups like are you gonna target

1024
00:52:16,159 --> 00:52:18,360
those guys and go, oh yeah, we'ren't gonna outscore those

1025
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:22,480
guys because that this is a potent ass offensive lineup.

1026
00:52:24,159 --> 00:52:26,320
Speaker 1: I would not want to face this team in the playoffs.

1027
00:52:26,559 --> 00:52:30,400
I struggled to see them winning two playoff series, which

1028
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:33,880
is the more and it I feel better about the Warriors.

1029
00:52:34,159 --> 00:52:36,039
I think there's a better balance to the roster when

1030
00:52:36,039 --> 00:52:38,360
they're at full strength than the Lakers have right now.

1031
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:43,960
And I want to say I think it's I just

1032
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:46,719
think they're a pretender for this season. I'll be maybe

1033
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:49,079
this is something we revisit. It turns out I'm incredibly wrong.

1034
00:52:49,159 --> 00:52:52,239
Is there anybody like they can sign someone off the

1035
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:53,880
buy out market as long as they're making the mid

1036
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:56,159
level exception or less right. I tried to go through

1037
00:52:56,159 --> 00:52:58,000
it the other night after the Mark Williams Trader was

1038
00:52:58,039 --> 00:53:01,400
rescinded some names that I'll throw out to you. I don't.

1039
00:53:01,599 --> 00:53:04,280
I don't think Houston. They'd be I think fools to

1040
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:07,559
buy out Steven Adams, although he'd be perfect for this roster.

1041
00:53:08,079 --> 00:53:10,239
Maybe that's a free agent the Lakers look at this summer,

1042
00:53:10,519 --> 00:53:15,119
Marvin Bagley, that's not doing it. PJ. Tucker. Nope, No,

1043
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:18,840
Larry Nance Junior maybe not do anything for you.

1044
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:22,079
Speaker 2: Is he not over the Emily He's eleven point two.

1045
00:53:22,119 --> 00:53:24,599
Speaker 1: Everyone now is like, I'm going in declining salary.

1046
00:53:25,519 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 2: That's dope. Okay, So and I think.

1047
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:32,360
Speaker 1: He's probably it's possible unless Atlanta wants to keep him,

1048
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:36,559
which they might because you're traded for George Niang And

1049
00:53:36,679 --> 00:53:39,039
I guess Klinkapela's hitting free agency, so who knows.

1050
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:41,280
Speaker 2: I mean, look, if Larry Nance is going to be

1051
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:46,400
on the market, absolutely that would help a ton. I'm yeah,

1052
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:49,440
I'm still I don't care. Honestly, they are they can

1053
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:51,519
do whatever. I mean, look, they can play Dorian Finney

1054
00:53:51,519 --> 00:53:54,280
Smith as there's there's Small Bowl five. When is Kliba

1055
00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:54,840
coming back?

1056
00:53:57,079 --> 00:53:59,400
Speaker 1: I don't know what his actual timeline was. He is

1057
00:53:59,559 --> 00:54:05,400
listed as all right, that's that's ugly. Well, and he's

1058
00:54:05,559 --> 00:54:07,320
just he's been injured all the time.

1059
00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:09,119
Speaker 2: He is, yeah, I know he is.

1060
00:54:10,199 --> 00:54:12,599
Speaker 1: So yeah. I guess I won't go through any other

1061
00:54:12,599 --> 00:54:14,440
buy out. Possibly is it Chris Bouchet is not gonna

1062
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:16,119
get brought out anyway. I would love right here. I

1063
00:54:16,159 --> 00:54:18,559
will say it'd be very funny if Marvin Bagley got

1064
00:54:18,599 --> 00:54:20,519
brought out and then teamed up with Luka Doncic not

1065
00:54:20,519 --> 00:54:21,880
doing anything for your defense, But.

1066
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:24,400
Speaker 2: I don't care. That's that pick and roll. That'd be awesome. No,

1067
00:54:24,559 --> 00:54:28,199
I see, I could see a world where in your

1068
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:32,199
Warriors over Lakers idea is you know, I can see

1069
00:54:32,199 --> 00:54:34,719
where it has some ballid elements like the two way

1070
00:54:34,719 --> 00:54:38,840
play is obviously preferred in every single in creation of

1071
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:42,039
of an NBA team, you want that, But at the

1072
00:54:42,119 --> 00:54:45,920
end of the day, I still just believe in it.

1073
00:54:46,039 --> 00:54:48,519
Here to tell him I can't get away from that

1074
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:50,920
fit matters absolutely. I'm not gonna say out the wise

1075
00:54:51,039 --> 00:54:52,599
defense matters. I'm not going to say out the wise,

1076
00:54:52,639 --> 00:54:54,360
but this.

1077
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:56,880
Speaker 1: Is I think it's fair to rest your case on.

1078
00:54:57,119 --> 00:54:59,119
They have Lebron, they have Lucas.

1079
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:02,840
Speaker 2: And that is my case because look, I think I

1080
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:06,599
think we all kind of forget how good Luca is

1081
00:55:06,639 --> 00:55:09,920
because the Dallas Mavericks have been on a smear campaign just.

1082
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:12,360
Speaker 3: He's fat, he's bad, he doesn't work, and it's like

1083
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:17,239
the dude last year, I'm gonna reiterate myself average thirty four,

1084
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:21,559
ten nine and dragged his sorry ass team so the

1085
00:55:21,599 --> 00:55:24,039
finals with his injured teeth.

1086
00:55:24,599 --> 00:55:26,719
Speaker 2: Come on, what are we doing?

1087
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:29,960
Speaker 1: I really do think that you're giving not enough credit

1088
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:30,840
to the supporting cast.

1089
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:34,119
Speaker 2: That was okay, fine, the defense was good. They got

1090
00:55:34,679 --> 00:55:36,960
Kyrie was there, I hear, but you know what I

1091
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:40,840
mean though, like he was injured like for at least

1092
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:41,840
two rounds.

1093
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:45,239
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not going to defend the Mavericks there

1094
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:47,760
By the way, it says a lot about in the

1095
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:50,440
aftermath they focused on, as you called it, the Luka

1096
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:53,440
Danci smear campaign more than they have focused on the

1097
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:55,559
actual value coming back in the trade, which I think

1098
00:55:55,639 --> 00:55:57,599
just says all you need to know about it. So

1099
00:55:57,639 --> 00:55:59,800
we we disagreed. We've disagreed a lot so far in

1100
00:55:59,840 --> 00:56:03,760
this one. What about this team, Memphis Grizzlies, contender or pretender?

1101
00:56:05,559 --> 00:56:08,239
We know their cowards because they did a salary dump

1102
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:09,079
at the trade deadline.

1103
00:56:09,199 --> 00:56:12,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they didn't. They didn't have the balls to

1104
00:56:12,199 --> 00:56:15,400
go for Jimmy. I know Jimmy said he wouldn't resign there.

1105
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:16,000
I think he should.

1106
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:18,440
Speaker 1: They did, I don't know if you. John Hollinger reported

1107
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:21,239
they did look into it. They also looked into Kevin Durant. Yeah,

1108
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:22,559
they looked into some big swings.

1109
00:56:22,559 --> 00:56:25,079
Speaker 2: But you can kind of tell Jimmy, thank you John,

1110
00:56:25,199 --> 00:56:26,400
Thank you John for putting that in.

1111
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:29,800
Speaker 1: I didn't see that, but I will say, yeah, the

1112
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:32,119
fact that they like wouldn't they wanted to give up

1113
00:56:32,119 --> 00:56:34,440
their twenty five second first round pick and I get

1114
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:37,159
seconds back from Brooklyn to Dorrian Phiney Smith trade. That

1115
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:39,760
was kind of the first indicator for me that this

1116
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:41,960
team is not serious about making an upgrade at the

1117
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:42,599
trade deadline.

1118
00:56:42,639 --> 00:56:44,599
Speaker 2: I think they're a year away. But does that make

1119
00:56:44,639 --> 00:56:45,559
them pretenders?

1120
00:56:47,199 --> 00:56:49,599
Speaker 1: Does it make them pretenders? Hell? Yeah, if we're gonna

1121
00:56:49,599 --> 00:56:52,000
call I'm sorry. Look, I know they have John Morant

1122
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:54,119
and the way that Jaron Jackson Junior's been playing this

1123
00:56:54,199 --> 00:56:56,840
year in Desmond Bane, But like, I still think you

1124
00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:58,719
have a lot of the same concerns about their half

1125
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:02,360
court offense when it to a playoff setting. And also

1126
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:05,719
the bigger thing here is too, like have you kind

1127
00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:09,079
of watched them in some end of game situations, like

1128
00:57:09,159 --> 00:57:13,280
they need I love Jalen Wells, he might be Rookie

1129
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:15,360
of the Year, and like their defense is buying large

1130
00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:17,519
held up in crunch time, but who do you trust

1131
00:57:17,519 --> 00:57:20,280
on this team to just go guard another star player?

1132
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:21,840
Marcus Smart was supposed to be that.

1133
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:22,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true.

1134
00:57:22,719 --> 00:57:24,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, and now you're kind of looking at it and

1135
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:28,559
I guess you're saying like, you're, like a healthy Vince

1136
00:57:28,559 --> 00:57:31,159
Williams Junior needs to do a lot of heavy lifting

1137
00:57:32,079 --> 00:57:34,719
and will he stay healthy. And then again, I think

1138
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:37,239
Jalen Wells a lot of people they're making fun of

1139
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:39,480
this rookie class. I think he's been great, but I

1140
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:43,119
don't like he's not that Guy's Gigi Jackson that guy.

1141
00:57:44,079 --> 00:57:46,360
Maybe they cobble it together enough, but I do still

1142
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:50,480
have some enduring concerns about their overall offensive structure, and

1143
00:57:50,519 --> 00:57:53,639
then that coupled with sort of their perimeter defensive crew.

1144
00:57:53,639 --> 00:57:58,519
At the moment, I lean pretender, which I probably sounds stupid.

1145
00:57:59,159 --> 00:58:01,199
Speaker 2: So I'm with you on the pretender part. What I

1146
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:04,239
was challenging is even though they were passive at the

1147
00:58:04,239 --> 00:58:07,400
trade headline, I don't necessarily think that's going to influence

1148
00:58:07,519 --> 00:58:10,239
too greatly at peace the results of the second half

1149
00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:12,760
of the season. That's what I was kind of inferring.

1150
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:16,599
Because Marcus Smart obviously played just nineteen games, he wasn't

1151
00:58:16,639 --> 00:58:21,199
really available. Yeah, so that's kind of where I was

1152
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:23,559
hanging my hat a little bit. Basically saying like, even

1153
00:58:23,599 --> 00:58:26,719
though they were passive and cowards at the trade headline,

1154
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:30,000
there is an element here where I think they have

1155
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:33,440
enough talent to at least fight for it. There are

1156
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:37,360
some oddities though that I seeing lies under the radar,

1157
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:40,639
a little bit like Desmond Bain, you know, turning a

1158
00:58:40,679 --> 00:58:43,840
little bit back into a pumpkin, concerns me. Yes, I

1159
00:58:44,199 --> 00:58:48,920
just offensively speaking, he's had too good a career just

1160
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:52,159
scoring the basketball that I'm a little bit confused as

1161
00:58:52,159 --> 00:58:55,159
to what has happened this year, why he's so much

1162
00:58:55,199 --> 00:58:56,599
further down on the totem pole.

1163
00:58:58,039 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 1: He's looked. I think a lot of that might just

1164
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:01,880
do it how good he was, To be clear, like

1165
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:04,840
he's had some like some bad stretches this season. I

1166
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:06,840
think he's been by and large a lot better over

1167
00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:08,360
the past month and a half or so, and so

1168
00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:14,039
I don't worry about him specifically. That's fair it. I'm

1169
00:59:14,079 --> 00:59:15,880
not trying to I wasn't trying to say that the

1170
00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:18,119
Marcus Smart trade was what made them pretender though that's

1171
00:59:18,119 --> 00:59:20,880
a good call, but that was more so you didn't

1172
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:22,960
improve the team right now. Yeah, and then by the way,

1173
00:59:23,039 --> 00:59:25,920
Jake Lavia was like super useful for them. I know

1174
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:28,079
that they declined his team option, but that's not a

1175
00:59:28,159 --> 00:59:31,400
non loss. So if they could have gotten and it

1176
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:34,239
wasn't even you either needed to get a better defensive

1177
00:59:34,239 --> 00:59:37,079
option on the perimeter or let's get another type of

1178
00:59:37,119 --> 00:59:39,559
shooter in here to where Luke Kennard's not doing so

1179
00:59:39,639 --> 00:59:42,400
much lifting in that category and and has been baying too.

1180
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:45,320
He' shooting like forty three percent from three since January one.

1181
00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:47,440
I would have felt a lot better, Like if you

1182
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:49,440
would have put I know this isn't they had the assets,

1183
00:59:49,639 --> 00:59:51,440
like you put Cam Johnson on this team. Yeah, he

1184
00:59:51,519 --> 00:59:53,199
still maybe have some of the defensive concerns, but I

1185
00:59:53,199 --> 00:59:54,599
probably would have called them a contender.

1186
00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:58,119
Speaker 2: So you were one Cam Johnson away from contenter.

1187
00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:02,159
Speaker 1: I think it is interesting. We're not far away, like

1188
01:00:02,199 --> 01:00:03,920
we're no and I think you could even say maybe

1189
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:06,000
a lesser player too, Like I don't even know if

1190
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:07,440
it was a Cam Johnson. I'm trying to think of

1191
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:11,440
what would have been another interesting option, like like they

1192
01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:14,159
could have been one Io de Soon move away, just

1193
01:00:14,159 --> 01:00:16,159
if we're going the defensive end of the spectrum, because

1194
01:00:16,159 --> 01:00:18,880
he can guard up so well, so that like they're close.

1195
01:00:19,039 --> 01:00:21,800
I just I think there were two major boxes or

1196
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:24,199
two major voys that they have and they address neither

1197
01:00:24,239 --> 01:00:25,719
of them, which I think is problematic.

1198
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:28,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, but then you know both of us, both of us,

1199
01:00:28,559 --> 01:00:30,719
we agree on this and that they are pretenders, but

1200
01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:32,920
it's like close, it's.

1201
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:35,880
Speaker 1: Not as of this season. I feel better about them

1202
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:38,480
than the Rockets. Would be the best way to frame it, all, right, Yeah,

1203
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:43,360
that's fair. Our next team, I don't know. Oh, although

1204
01:00:43,400 --> 01:00:45,960
we do some breaking Minnesota Timberwolves news more. Did you

1205
01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:46,320
see it?

1206
01:00:46,679 --> 01:00:47,559
Speaker 2: No? I haven't.

1207
01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:51,599
Speaker 1: Per Sham Serrania. Uh, the arbitration really has come back

1208
01:00:51,599 --> 01:00:55,760
in favor of Mark Lare and al Trodriguez for who

1209
01:00:55,760 --> 01:01:00,199
will be controlling team governors for the Minnesota Timberwolves. Don't

1210
01:01:00,239 --> 01:01:03,280
that doesn't really impact this season. Maybe it impacts the

1211
01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:06,000
spending for this team kind of moving forward. But there's

1212
01:01:06,039 --> 01:01:08,679
your breaking Minnesota Timberwolves nude. I don't think this saga

1213
01:01:08,719 --> 01:01:14,440
is necessarily over, but nope, Yeah, so Lauren Rodriguez arbitrators

1214
01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:16,320
will in favor of them over Taylor to become the

1215
01:01:16,360 --> 01:01:18,760
controlling Timberwolves owners.

1216
01:01:19,159 --> 01:01:21,880
Speaker 2: And Kyrie Irving has replaced Anthony Davis in the All

1217
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:22,440
Star Game.

1218
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:26,800
Speaker 1: I still kind of can't believe it wasn't some bonus. Yep, great,

1219
01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:29,480
but Shang Gooon is injured, so he might get it anyway. Right,

1220
01:01:29,519 --> 01:01:31,639
We've see what happens with Shangoon or Shangun not injured.

1221
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:35,000
Speaker 2: He thought he was still He went down last game

1222
01:01:35,039 --> 01:01:37,400
after three minutes, so I don't know what his status

1223
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:37,800
is still.

1224
01:01:38,079 --> 01:01:39,639
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, day to day. I thought they might have

1225
01:01:39,679 --> 01:01:42,679
updated it. So neither here nor there are the Minnesota

1226
01:01:42,679 --> 01:01:45,320
Timberwolves more contenders or pretenders.

1227
01:01:45,519 --> 01:01:49,639
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say pretenders. I just don't really trust a

1228
01:01:49,719 --> 01:01:52,199
team where two of their three best players are Rudy

1229
01:01:52,199 --> 01:01:56,920
Gobert and Julius Randall. Sorry, that's just I know that's harsh.

1230
01:01:57,239 --> 01:02:00,559
I here's the thing. Randall is a guy who can

1231
01:02:00,599 --> 01:02:05,280
have these incredible stretches where efficiency is following along, where

1232
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:09,079
he's rebounding the ball at a great, great rate, where

1233
01:02:09,079 --> 01:02:12,000
his playmaking is on point, where he's kind of caught

1234
01:02:12,039 --> 01:02:15,000
a rhythm, and it like it lasts for like three

1235
01:02:15,199 --> 01:02:18,079
four weeks, and then he'll just time at the right time.

1236
01:02:18,679 --> 01:02:22,599
I don't feel as though we've had that stretch this year.

1237
01:02:22,719 --> 01:02:25,440
Is that coming? Is that coming at the most opportune time?

1238
01:02:25,559 --> 01:02:28,119
I don't know, but I'm not going to bang on it.

1239
01:02:28,159 --> 01:02:31,679
That's why I'm not inclined to believe that as Rudy Gobert.

1240
01:02:32,079 --> 01:02:34,679
I still think he's a guy who if you get

1241
01:02:34,760 --> 01:02:38,480
him out on the court deep enough, you can take

1242
01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:41,199
advantage of him near the basket. No Dice, one of

1243
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:44,480
the best rim protectors of all time. So that kind

1244
01:02:44,519 --> 01:02:46,840
of leaves a lot of responsibility for a young man

1245
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:49,159
who the media keeps piping up as the next Jordan,

1246
01:02:49,199 --> 01:02:52,880
which again I still think is unfair. But he is

1247
01:02:53,559 --> 01:02:57,320
enormously talented, enormously good. Is it fair to expect him

1248
01:02:57,360 --> 01:03:01,000
to overcome the potential shortcomings of Gobea and Randall? I

1249
01:03:01,119 --> 01:03:05,280
don't think so. I will say this, Dan, I'm happy

1250
01:03:05,360 --> 01:03:08,159
to see Jap McDaniels become a little bit more aggressive offensively.

1251
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:09,599
Speaker 1: That has been fun.

1252
01:03:09,679 --> 01:03:12,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's like I've been asking for this for

1253
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:13,679
three years?

1254
01:03:14,039 --> 01:03:16,360
Speaker 1: Is this? Don't you think? Like kind of until this

1255
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:18,719
he was in danger of like quietly becoming one of

1256
01:03:18,800 --> 01:03:21,960
the like lower value contracts.

1257
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:25,559
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, I was there. I was right there. I

1258
01:03:26,320 --> 01:03:29,400
called him that at like after the twenty game mark,

1259
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:32,360
I think, and something along those lines. This season, I

1260
01:03:32,440 --> 01:03:35,199
was incredibly worried, like you just can't be a one

1261
01:03:35,239 --> 01:03:38,800
way player when you're not a superstar in this day

1262
01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:41,320
and age and then keep getting that type of money

1263
01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:43,440
and playing thirty minutes per game, like that's just not

1264
01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:47,199
you know, that's not realistic. He had to scale up

1265
01:03:47,239 --> 01:03:49,079
his offense, and to his credit, he did, and he's

1266
01:03:49,119 --> 01:03:51,559
also done more than that. He's become more aggressive on

1267
01:03:51,639 --> 01:03:54,679
the class. He suddenly realized, oh, I'm six ' nine,

1268
01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:57,920
I can actually go in and compete for rebounds. That's great.

1269
01:03:58,800 --> 01:04:03,440
So better Lateland Never for Jaden mcgains. I just don't

1270
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:04,559
trust this team pretenders.

1271
01:04:05,639 --> 01:04:08,559
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go con contenders with the caveat. I don't

1272
01:04:08,599 --> 01:04:13,840
necessarily trust them offensively either. I do think they've unlocked

1273
01:04:13,880 --> 01:04:16,840
some certain combinations where they've been able to generate more

1274
01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:19,840
spacing and make things easier on the Julius Randall integration

1275
01:04:20,119 --> 01:04:23,039
or on just Anthony Edwards in general. Yeah, they have

1276
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:27,679
of all the non Nuggets and okay, see teams that

1277
01:04:27,719 --> 01:04:29,119
I've seen, and I think you might be able to

1278
01:04:29,159 --> 01:04:32,280
make the case of over the Nuggets. The peak that

1279
01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:34,920
we've seen from them, I can't quit it. There's just

1280
01:04:35,239 --> 01:04:37,960
there's so much talent on this team. I think there's

1281
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:40,239
a majority of not to you know, go matt Ishbie

1282
01:04:40,239 --> 01:04:42,199
about it, but like two thirds of the NBA might

1283
01:04:42,239 --> 01:04:44,000
trade places with them when you just look at their

1284
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:48,440
top ten players in a vacuum of talent, and that

1285
01:04:48,639 --> 01:04:49,079
is led.

1286
01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:53,679
Speaker 2: By Anthony Davis Anthony of course, sorry, I'm not trying

1287
01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:56,679
trying to trade Anti Edwards for the Anthony Davis. We've

1288
01:04:56,679 --> 01:04:58,800
had enough of young guys trained for Anthony Davis. But

1289
01:04:58,840 --> 01:05:01,559
like how much of that is not led by ant

1290
01:05:01,599 --> 01:05:02,039
Man though?

1291
01:05:02,599 --> 01:05:04,440
Speaker 1: But I mean, like you said, you're happier with the

1292
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:06,440
way Jade McDaniels is playing. Look at the impact that

1293
01:05:06,480 --> 01:05:08,880
my commedue can still have, or that Niki Alexander Walker

1294
01:05:08,920 --> 01:05:11,039
can have. Look at what before he got injured, Dante

1295
01:05:11,039 --> 01:05:13,480
Devincenzo was turning a corner. Rob Dillingham has had some

1296
01:05:13,599 --> 01:05:16,320
really nice moments yes, over the past month or so.

1297
01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:19,039
So there's just there's depth here and the fact that

1298
01:05:19,079 --> 01:05:22,280
they're doing it defensively. I think you can argue that

1299
01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:25,920
maybe this team kind of never crescendos into a top

1300
01:05:25,960 --> 01:05:28,440
tier offense and they're like fifteenth I think in a

1301
01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:31,320
half court rating. This year, they've had some big games

1302
01:05:31,360 --> 01:05:35,159
though against good opponents. I don't trust them, but I

1303
01:05:35,199 --> 01:05:37,079
think I have kind of the way you default to

1304
01:05:37,119 --> 01:05:40,119
the Lakers with the high end talent, I have to

1305
01:05:40,559 --> 01:05:42,800
default to one them, just kind of proving that even

1306
01:05:42,800 --> 01:05:44,800
when they're not at their best, the defense can still

1307
01:05:45,079 --> 01:05:48,239
sort of work. And there's just such a deep collection

1308
01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:52,679
of talent here. My caveat would be that if Dante

1309
01:05:52,679 --> 01:05:56,440
Divincenzo's not healthy for the playoffs, I would have to

1310
01:05:56,440 --> 01:05:59,119
call them a pretender because I think his gravity is

1311
01:05:59,159 --> 01:06:01,880
so important to this team on the offensive end this year,

1312
01:06:02,239 --> 01:06:06,679
especially because I guess the most like the kindest way

1313
01:06:06,679 --> 01:06:09,559
to put it is like my commis had just way

1314
01:06:09,559 --> 01:06:12,679
more peaks and valleys than you would normally be used to.

1315
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:17,519
Yeah old yeah, yeah, so he old yeah hashtag he old.

1316
01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:20,960
And there's I still like too much of the look

1317
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:24,519
of them without Julius Randall at points. I think when

1318
01:06:24,559 --> 01:06:27,360
you get to the playoffs there'll be some more ruthless

1319
01:06:27,360 --> 01:06:30,159
decisions made if there are games or matchups that don't

1320
01:06:30,199 --> 01:06:33,199
play to that. And like I haven't even mentioned naz Reed,

1321
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:35,800
Like there's just so many different funk work combinations they

1322
01:06:35,840 --> 01:06:38,079
could go with. Yeah, I have to go with with

1323
01:06:38,239 --> 01:06:40,480
contender here, all right, Yeah.

1324
01:06:40,320 --> 01:06:43,599
Speaker 2: I'm not there, but like, I definitely see your arguments.

1325
01:06:44,119 --> 01:06:47,320
I yeah, I just think for a guy like Julius

1326
01:06:47,360 --> 01:06:50,559
Randells was playing as many minutes as he are as

1327
01:06:50,599 --> 01:06:52,880
he is, and the way that he features in the

1328
01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:57,519
offense to the extent that he is, like, you'll have

1329
01:06:57,599 --> 01:07:02,840
to somehow replace his volume collectively and spread that out.

1330
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:06,760
I don't know if I trust anyone in a playoff setting.

1331
01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:10,079
Specifically it's like be able to carry that outside of

1332
01:07:10,079 --> 01:07:10,800
a hand.

1333
01:07:11,599 --> 01:07:15,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's fair. I I just this team is

1334
01:07:16,159 --> 01:07:18,119
this is probably the well I guess the Warriors would

1335
01:07:18,119 --> 01:07:20,239
be my biggest swing, but among teams that are supposed

1336
01:07:20,239 --> 01:07:23,480
to be title contenders, this might be my biggest swing

1337
01:07:23,519 --> 01:07:26,079
because they've juckled and hide it a lot this year.

1338
01:07:26,199 --> 01:07:28,599
I mean, yeah, if you have the Lakers as pretenders

1339
01:07:28,599 --> 01:07:32,000
and the Wolves as contenders, that's definitely a swing.

1340
01:07:32,039 --> 01:07:33,559
Speaker 2: I respect it though, like this.

1341
01:07:35,079 --> 01:07:38,400
Speaker 1: Definite defense and like at least like they have good offense.

1342
01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:41,840
Like you, I just think, I don't know, I think

1343
01:07:41,840 --> 01:07:44,199
your your stand on the Lakers is valid. I'm just

1344
01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:47,280
like you're writing off everything else basically in service of

1345
01:07:47,320 --> 01:07:49,599
Look at the offense they can generate with Reeves, Dodgers

1346
01:07:49,599 --> 01:07:50,119
and Lebron.

1347
01:07:51,039 --> 01:07:54,719
Speaker 2: I am, it's it's horribly simplistic, and I get I get.

1348
01:07:54,559 --> 01:07:57,800
Speaker 1: Your horribly it's effectively simplistic. I would think.

1349
01:07:59,360 --> 01:08:01,519
Speaker 2: We'll see, well, see I could come out looking at

1350
01:08:01,519 --> 01:08:03,880
it an ass. I probably already am, but like I

1351
01:08:03,920 --> 01:08:07,599
hear you, I hear you. And again I think also

1352
01:08:07,719 --> 01:08:11,400
with Edwards, there's another component that we may not talk about,

1353
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:15,400
which is his defense. Like because I think your crux

1354
01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:17,680
as a matter with the Lakers, in with Luca and Lebron,

1355
01:08:18,119 --> 01:08:20,680
is that they're inconsistent defenders. That is a very fair

1356
01:08:20,720 --> 01:08:25,720
point and is well, he can be inconsistent, but it's

1357
01:08:25,800 --> 01:08:28,680
mostly when he's like on a tear offensively, where he's like, no,

1358
01:08:28,760 --> 01:08:30,800
I have to save myself because I have to score

1359
01:08:30,880 --> 01:08:34,199
forty five to win this game. Like those are basically

1360
01:08:34,279 --> 01:08:37,640
the only games where he takes defensive possessions off. When

1361
01:08:38,039 --> 01:08:40,600
everyone else is like doing what they're supposed to do

1362
01:08:40,800 --> 01:08:43,800
and he's, you know, sticking around eighteen twenty shots per game.

1363
01:08:44,600 --> 01:08:47,680
He's a strong ass defender, and I think that matters too.

1364
01:08:47,760 --> 01:08:50,079
The two way play. You always want the two way play.

1365
01:08:50,079 --> 01:08:52,079
Of course, you do so I think that's it's a

1366
01:08:52,119 --> 01:08:53,239
fair shout.

1367
01:08:53,399 --> 01:08:57,479
Speaker 1: So you have given out two contender designations correct in

1368
01:08:57,680 --> 01:09:00,840
the Lakers and the Nuggets. So far, I have given

1369
01:09:00,840 --> 01:09:03,840
one to the Warriors, the Nuggets, and the timber Wolves.

1370
01:09:03,880 --> 01:09:06,600
I have a feeling we're both gonna consider this next

1371
01:09:06,640 --> 01:09:09,920
team pretenders. Here's hope in the Oklahoma City Thunder. I

1372
01:09:10,039 --> 01:09:12,920
just don't more. They didn't. This is the second straight

1373
01:09:12,960 --> 01:09:15,159
trade deadline. They didn't go out and trade for Daniel Gafford.

1374
01:09:15,159 --> 01:09:16,560
How are they supposed to be contenders?

1375
01:09:18,720 --> 01:09:21,800
Speaker 2: For me? The name is Anthony Simons, but I hear you.

1376
01:09:23,279 --> 01:09:25,960
I guess this is a team that's just gonna shake Jills.

1377
01:09:26,039 --> 01:09:28,840
Is Alexander the way out of things? And that's not

1378
01:09:28,920 --> 01:09:32,319
necessarily a bad play. Look they have they have the

1379
01:09:32,359 --> 01:09:36,880
trio first and foremost. Chet is a two way fours point.

1380
01:09:36,960 --> 01:09:40,079
Let's hope he gets like fully back on track, because

1381
01:09:40,279 --> 01:09:43,840
like I know, there's still a couple months the to

1382
01:09:43,880 --> 01:09:46,479
the playoffs, but like still, you know, he missed so

1383
01:09:46,600 --> 01:09:49,279
much time. You're hoping he said a one hundred percent

1384
01:09:49,439 --> 01:09:51,600
close to it by then. He also needs to ramp

1385
01:09:51,680 --> 01:09:56,000
up his minutes. Jalen is that. I think he's such

1386
01:09:56,000 --> 01:09:59,479
an underrated offensive player. Everyone's talking about like the defense,

1387
01:09:59,720 --> 01:10:02,640
the connectability, the fact that he, you know, is a

1388
01:10:02,640 --> 01:10:05,039
little bit of an all around guy and he's like

1389
01:10:05,199 --> 01:10:09,119
very quietly averaging twenty one and doing so completely within

1390
01:10:09,119 --> 01:10:12,960
the flow of the offense. We talked about role acceptance

1391
01:10:13,119 --> 01:10:17,359
in the last episode in regarding Indiana. I think for

1392
01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:20,880
the Thunder it's the same thing. They just know what

1393
01:10:21,119 --> 01:10:23,560
to do each and every one and they play on

1394
01:10:23,600 --> 01:10:26,079
a string that's terrifying.

1395
01:10:27,439 --> 01:10:31,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's I like they're contenders. I don't. I think

1396
01:10:31,720 --> 01:10:33,239
some people might have been a little dis funny they

1397
01:10:33,239 --> 01:10:35,560
didn't go out and get either a bigger shooter or

1398
01:10:35,600 --> 01:10:39,640
bigger shot creator at the deadline. I'd be open to

1399
01:10:39,720 --> 01:10:43,560
listening to that. But when you had Chet Holmgren coming back, Yeah,

1400
01:10:43,600 --> 01:10:47,880
I just like this team is absolutely a contender. My

1401
01:10:47,960 --> 01:10:51,199
concern with them would be did they need that player

1402
01:10:51,359 --> 01:10:53,479
and they elected not to get them. But when you

1403
01:10:53,560 --> 01:10:59,000
haven't seen really at all this season, you're full cast together,

1404
01:10:59,560 --> 01:11:02,479
they've the like they're just lording over the rest of

1405
01:11:02,520 --> 01:11:04,920
the West. You've earned the benefit of the doubt there.

1406
01:11:05,039 --> 01:11:07,960
I just they're going to need and I think Jaylen

1407
01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:09,800
Williams can be that guy. But if we go into

1408
01:11:09,800 --> 01:11:13,399
a second straight postseason, he looks overmatched offensively as a creator.

1409
01:11:13,720 --> 01:11:15,239
This is look this year though, I think he's in

1410
01:11:15,279 --> 01:11:18,600
the ninetieth percentile of on ball gravity, so he's gotten

1411
01:11:18,600 --> 01:11:22,560
the efficiency's dipped some, but this is still someone I

1412
01:11:22,720 --> 01:11:25,760
really believe in him as a that player eventually, if

1413
01:11:25,800 --> 01:11:29,199
not right now, and they have enough depth to work

1414
01:11:29,239 --> 01:11:31,359
around that on top of a generational defense. And the

1415
01:11:31,399 --> 01:11:34,319
other thing too is people will laugh because you know

1416
01:11:34,479 --> 01:11:36,640
they know that whoever listen to this podcast that I'm

1417
01:11:36,680 --> 01:11:38,560
just I will cape for him to no end. But

1418
01:11:38,640 --> 01:11:41,840
like the recent stretch from Aaron Wiggins is pretty significant.

1419
01:11:41,880 --> 01:11:43,800
If you were at all worried about the thunder offense

1420
01:11:43,840 --> 01:11:45,039
in the playoffs.

1421
01:11:44,560 --> 01:11:47,920
Speaker 2: I was about to bring him up because I'm wondering

1422
01:11:48,239 --> 01:11:51,840
if I'm wondering if he actually should get a minute

1423
01:11:51,920 --> 01:11:56,079
bump in the playoffs. Like he's got positional size. The shooting,

1424
01:11:56,159 --> 01:11:59,520
obviously we know it's there. He's got some expletivity, Like

1425
01:11:59,560 --> 01:12:02,039
he's not just a spot up shooter. He's a guy

1426
01:12:02,039 --> 01:12:05,159
who can actually do something with the ball. I wouldn't

1427
01:12:05,199 --> 01:12:08,720
mind seeing him against you know, bigger teams get a

1428
01:12:08,720 --> 01:12:10,880
little bit a little bit more of a chance.

1429
01:12:12,199 --> 01:12:14,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the things he can do defensively, and

1430
01:12:14,159 --> 01:12:17,000
he would also be I don't know how much these

1431
01:12:17,039 --> 01:12:19,720
minutes matter in the playoffs when Shake Gilders Alexander's gonna

1432
01:12:19,720 --> 01:12:21,840
be playing a ton, right, But if you don't want to,

1433
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:24,720
maybe if you want to try playing one big without

1434
01:12:24,760 --> 01:12:27,640
Shake Gilger Alexander, like having him on the court with

1435
01:12:27,760 --> 01:12:30,640
Jalen Williams can maybe I can give your on ball

1436
01:12:30,720 --> 01:12:33,479
offense a type of boost. And then if Isaiah Hartenstein's

1437
01:12:33,479 --> 01:12:36,119
on the court during those minutes too, because I think, look,

1438
01:12:36,399 --> 01:12:39,279
a lot of people have killed the differential when Shay

1439
01:12:39,399 --> 01:12:41,680
is off the court offensively, but we just hadn't seen

1440
01:12:41,720 --> 01:12:44,039
it a ton because of injuries the thunder. We're figuring

1441
01:12:44,119 --> 01:12:47,439
things out like during the Isaiah Hartenstein and Jalen Williams minutes,

1442
01:12:47,439 --> 01:12:49,479
and now you can throw Chet Holmgren either on the

1443
01:12:49,520 --> 01:12:51,279
court with both of them or mix and match if

1444
01:12:51,279 --> 01:12:54,239
you want to go one big. This team is I'll

1445
01:12:54,279 --> 01:12:56,800
say this, they have a stronger case to be title

1446
01:12:56,880 --> 01:12:59,920
favorites than like, oh they the take to be the

1447
01:13:00,079 --> 01:13:01,399
should have made a move at the deadline.

1448
01:13:01,439 --> 01:13:05,399
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, for sure. I actually have them currently over Boston.

1449
01:13:06,600 --> 01:13:08,439
Speaker 1: Do you have this so you have them as title favorites.

1450
01:13:08,520 --> 01:13:13,119
I do. I think that's I think that's fair. I

1451
01:13:13,279 --> 01:13:16,319
just don't know if I agree yet. But Boston, I, oh,

1452
01:13:17,039 --> 01:13:18,159
you know what it is is I'm not sure if

1453
01:13:18,159 --> 01:13:20,520
I'd put Cleveland over Boston. But I'm just so married

1454
01:13:20,560 --> 01:13:22,159
to like, Okay, see, to me, he's clearly the best

1455
01:13:22,199 --> 01:13:24,399
team in the West that maybe I do view them

1456
01:13:24,439 --> 01:13:26,319
as title favorites. And I'm just not willing to admit it.

1457
01:13:27,000 --> 01:13:30,960
Speaker 2: To me, it's won the defense because and well the

1458
01:13:31,000 --> 01:13:33,399
two way play. Let's be real, because there's all these

1459
01:13:33,439 --> 01:13:36,880
guys have offensive components as well. Like we talk about

1460
01:13:36,960 --> 01:13:39,520
lou Dort's defense, but he's also hitting forty one percent

1461
01:13:39,600 --> 01:13:43,279
from three. We're talking about Cason Wallace, like we saw

1462
01:13:43,439 --> 01:13:46,000
last year that he was a high efficiency type of

1463
01:13:46,079 --> 01:13:48,560
guy that diminished this year, but like that's not to

1464
01:13:48,600 --> 01:13:51,319
say that won't return. We know Aaron Wickins, we just

1465
01:13:51,399 --> 01:13:54,039
talked about him. I say it Joe as an underrated

1466
01:13:54,039 --> 01:13:56,840
defender despite being what six ' to three, Alex cruzoe

1467
01:13:56,960 --> 01:14:00,640
very self explanatory. It just has I have all these

1468
01:14:00,720 --> 01:14:03,640
guys who can do stuff like Caruso as a connector

1469
01:14:03,720 --> 01:14:06,039
for example, to me, that was one of the biggest

1470
01:14:06,119 --> 01:14:08,000
things that was like a revelation for me when he

1471
01:14:08,039 --> 01:14:11,159
came to Chicago, which we didn't really see in LA

1472
01:14:11,439 --> 01:14:15,079
for a variety of reasons. How he would just offensively

1473
01:14:15,199 --> 01:14:18,840
move to the right spot, especially like offensive rebounds, and

1474
01:14:19,279 --> 01:14:22,079
just like, all right, if I position myself here, the

1475
01:14:22,199 --> 01:14:24,039
offensive rebound is gonna come off the glass of this

1476
01:14:24,239 --> 01:14:26,000
to the left side, I'm gonna get it here, and

1477
01:14:26,119 --> 01:14:28,840
that's gonna make allow me to make this bullet pass

1478
01:14:28,960 --> 01:14:31,319
right into a cutting sack. Lavine going to the basket

1479
01:14:31,520 --> 01:14:35,039
like he's just a mile ahead of every play. Also offensively,

1480
01:14:35,680 --> 01:14:38,600
So that's the one thing, like the defense and the

1481
01:14:38,680 --> 01:14:40,560
fact that it's all two way play. And then they

1482
01:14:40,600 --> 01:14:42,560
also just have the best player, like when it comes

1483
01:14:42,680 --> 01:14:45,760
down to everything, like Dallas last year also had the

1484
01:14:45,840 --> 01:14:49,359
best player, but they didn't have the two way play

1485
01:14:49,399 --> 01:14:52,600
across the roster. Like this is a team that can

1486
01:14:52,720 --> 01:14:55,800
legitimately challenge Boston and when push comes to shove, if

1487
01:14:55,840 --> 01:15:00,399
it comes down to Taydan versus Sga, all right, man,

1488
01:15:00,399 --> 01:15:05,359
I'm going with the Canadian. There's also two if you

1489
01:15:05,479 --> 01:15:08,439
are concerned about their offense because of the Hartenstein element,

1490
01:15:09,000 --> 01:15:12,640
they're even better built to win with just defense or

1491
01:15:12,680 --> 01:15:14,760
win ugly because you're not going to run into those

1492
01:15:14,840 --> 01:15:17,359
size issues that you did with Dallas yep last year.

1493
01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:20,159
So they've kind of maybe they haven't addressed all the concerns,

1494
01:15:20,199 --> 01:15:23,279
but they've given themselves enough cover and depth to where

1495
01:15:23,319 --> 01:15:27,199
it's what we can win without being the most ideal

1496
01:15:27,279 --> 01:15:29,520
iteration of what everybody wants us to be. Can we

1497
01:15:29,640 --> 01:15:32,439
talk about Hardenstein for a quick second about something, because

1498
01:15:32,560 --> 01:15:36,079
this is something that's It's just something that linkers in

1499
01:15:36,119 --> 01:15:39,079
the back of my mind because he doesn't really take threes.

1500
01:15:39,159 --> 01:15:42,800
People are like, oh, you know rim runner, you know,

1501
01:15:43,119 --> 01:15:47,399
close to the basket. If he has a wide open three,

1502
01:15:47,560 --> 01:15:50,720
even like a final series, I have no issue with

1503
01:15:50,840 --> 01:15:54,640
him taking it, like he has a jump shot. He

1504
01:15:54,840 --> 01:15:56,640
just doesn't utilize it a whole lot. You saw it

1505
01:15:56,840 --> 01:15:58,800
in with the Knicks as well last year.

1506
01:15:58,960 --> 01:16:02,000
Speaker 1: He does have a j like he has a well

1507
01:16:02,319 --> 01:16:04,600
I think he does. I still don't think and OKAYC

1508
01:16:04,760 --> 01:16:07,119
would fond it like they just haven't. No one's leaned

1509
01:16:07,159 --> 01:16:09,880
on it, and I think the Knicks basically out outlawed it.

1510
01:16:10,000 --> 01:16:12,760
But to your point, like he has the floater game,

1511
01:16:12,880 --> 01:16:15,439
like the push up the mid range game, and that again,

1512
01:16:15,520 --> 01:16:18,479
that's a different dynamic. So I was fine with them

1513
01:16:18,560 --> 01:16:21,159
not doing anything at the trade deadline was basically more

1514
01:16:21,199 --> 01:16:23,920
my point. I think the conversation with them is the level.

1515
01:16:24,000 --> 01:16:28,159
Should they be title favorites, and like the answer is

1516
01:16:28,199 --> 01:16:31,800
probably yes, unless it's just it's Boston, Cleveland or okayc

1517
01:16:32,000 --> 01:16:36,119
Like those are the only three options, right, Yeah, yeah,

1518
01:16:36,319 --> 01:16:39,439
so Oka. See, pretender, of course is what we're getting.

1519
01:16:39,439 --> 01:16:41,439
No contender. That was a pretty easy one. Now we

1520
01:16:41,520 --> 01:16:43,079
have a couple of quick hitters. I don't think any

1521
01:16:43,079 --> 01:16:45,119
of these teams belong in the contender bucket more, but

1522
01:16:45,159 --> 01:16:47,479
I wanted to get some quick hitter thoughts from both

1523
01:16:47,520 --> 01:16:50,800
of us on it. We'll begin with the Phoenix Suns,

1524
01:16:50,840 --> 01:16:54,680
who like, yeah, they have Kevin Ran and Devin Booker

1525
01:16:54,680 --> 01:16:56,319
and they're supposed to be contenders. But you can come

1526
01:16:56,399 --> 01:16:57,960
talk to me when you're a net plus with the

1527
01:16:58,000 --> 01:16:59,199
big three on the court like that.

1528
01:16:59,479 --> 01:17:03,399
Speaker 2: That's my st No, that's all what needs to be said.

1529
01:17:03,520 --> 01:17:07,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, so pretender for them. And by the way, is

1530
01:17:07,560 --> 01:17:10,960
it over. Is Kevin Durant on the Phoenix Suns next year?

1531
01:17:11,039 --> 01:17:14,199
Speaker 2: I don't think so. Apparently he was pissed of being shopped.

1532
01:17:14,239 --> 01:17:18,000
I buy that. It seems like he's there's this cycle

1533
01:17:18,079 --> 01:17:21,199
with him. It seems now that he's just like with

1534
01:17:21,359 --> 01:17:24,000
it team very briefly and then moves on. It's a

1535
01:17:24,079 --> 01:17:25,960
weird way for him to wrap up his career. I

1536
01:17:26,000 --> 01:17:29,399
didn't really understand, well, I can't guess I do on

1537
01:17:29,479 --> 01:17:31,800
a human level that you know, he didn't want to

1538
01:17:31,880 --> 01:17:34,479
return to a place he'd been in Golden State, but

1539
01:17:34,640 --> 01:17:37,039
like him and Steph together to wrap up the career.

1540
01:17:37,439 --> 01:17:39,199
I would have been all in on that that, like

1541
01:17:39,319 --> 01:17:41,239
nostalgia for the win. I would have loved that.

1542
01:17:41,560 --> 01:17:43,520
Speaker 1: I would have too, But I think, and I've been

1543
01:17:43,680 --> 01:17:47,079
kind of critical of like how he's just what's happened

1544
01:17:47,119 --> 01:17:49,479
post Okac, But I do think there's something to the

1545
01:17:49,560 --> 01:17:53,119
effect of people were diminishing what he was accomplishing in

1546
01:17:53,199 --> 01:17:55,680
Golden State because it was Steph's team, which was definitely

1547
01:17:55,800 --> 01:17:57,840
unfair to him, and even I was guilty of it

1548
01:17:57,920 --> 01:18:00,800
because I don't think Steph received enough credit during those

1549
01:18:00,840 --> 01:18:06,279
finals run specifically, But like Kevin Durant was a fantastic player, Yeah,

1550
01:18:06,399 --> 01:18:07,840
one of the five best in the game at that

1551
01:18:07,880 --> 01:18:09,399
point and still in the conversation for one of the

1552
01:18:09,439 --> 01:18:11,800
ten best in the game right now, I would have

1553
01:18:12,640 --> 01:18:15,640
I would have killed Who've seen hie golden stay it again?

1554
01:18:15,640 --> 01:18:16,720
I think that I don't know. They would have had

1555
01:18:16,720 --> 01:18:18,840
to give up more than they would have for Jimmy Butler.

1556
01:18:18,920 --> 01:18:20,560
It sounds like, but that would have been worth it

1557
01:18:20,680 --> 01:18:23,279
because it's Kevin freaking Durant. But I will say that's

1558
01:18:23,840 --> 01:18:26,359
I would There's two all time bumbles here by the Suns.

1559
01:18:26,399 --> 01:18:28,479
I would say, one, trading your twenty thirty one pick

1560
01:18:28,560 --> 01:18:32,079
without having the Jimmy Butler move or something big or

1561
01:18:32,199 --> 01:18:36,199
locked down. And then two, how do you, as critical

1562
01:18:36,199 --> 01:18:38,119
as I am for Kevin Durant wanting to leave these places?

1563
01:18:38,159 --> 01:18:40,319
He wanted to stay with you, and you weren't collaborating

1564
01:18:40,439 --> 01:18:42,520
or keeping him in the know of, hey, we might

1565
01:18:42,640 --> 01:18:45,600
move you. Because now it sets up a disastrous offseason

1566
01:18:45,920 --> 01:18:50,479
for you. So two bumbles by them. This next team,

1567
01:18:50,960 --> 01:18:55,720
the Sacramento Kings, I don't I'd like the Jake Lauravia trade.

1568
01:18:56,000 --> 01:18:59,399
I know what else to say about that, but I don't.

1569
01:19:00,119 --> 01:19:01,520
Now how do you feel about them if you were

1570
01:19:01,520 --> 01:19:04,079
looking at them through kind of the postseason prism?

1571
01:19:04,359 --> 01:19:07,000
Speaker 2: All Right, So here's the thing. I actually think they

1572
01:19:07,039 --> 01:19:09,359
did pretty well. And the reason I'm saying that is

1573
01:19:10,880 --> 01:19:13,479
that's the road they chose. Like I wouldn't have gone

1574
01:19:13,520 --> 01:19:16,520
this route. I would have gone the rebuilding route after

1575
01:19:16,640 --> 01:19:20,520
trading Fox, because I think that makes the most sense.

1576
01:19:21,399 --> 01:19:23,920
They clearly did not want to go that route, and

1577
01:19:24,079 --> 01:19:28,279
so for the direction they wanted to go in, I

1578
01:19:28,319 --> 01:19:31,279
actually think they came out looking pretty good all things considered,

1579
01:19:31,319 --> 01:19:34,880
because Fox had them in jail right like I only

1580
01:19:34,960 --> 01:19:37,199
want to go here, Like they diminished. He kind of

1581
01:19:37,239 --> 01:19:40,680
diminished his own market from outside forces. So for them

1582
01:19:41,079 --> 01:19:43,159
and for the Spurs, frankly, to go in a loop

1583
01:19:43,279 --> 01:19:46,760
Chicago into the deals to just kind of give them

1584
01:19:47,359 --> 01:19:50,279
sac Lavine, I think it was pretty good business. Honestly.

1585
01:19:50,680 --> 01:19:53,960
I also loved the Jonas Valancunis strade. They needed someone

1586
01:19:54,079 --> 01:19:55,800
to come off the bench and just do all that

1587
01:19:55,880 --> 01:19:57,800
dirty work and rebound the heck out of the ball.

1588
01:19:58,439 --> 01:20:02,479
So I like they're getting in terms of like playoff equity,

1589
01:20:03,159 --> 01:20:05,880
Are they in a better position than before? I think

1590
01:20:05,920 --> 01:20:08,760
it's kind of neutral. I don't necessarily think they're much

1591
01:20:08,920 --> 01:20:12,199
better or much worse. Like the optimal solution would have

1592
01:20:12,239 --> 01:20:17,520
been pairing Levine with Fox instead they were swapped. That's unfortunate,

1593
01:20:18,159 --> 01:20:21,960
but I don't think my mind has changed. They're a pretender.

1594
01:20:22,960 --> 01:20:26,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, i'd be with you, do you feel better about what?

1595
01:20:26,279 --> 01:20:28,119
Do you like them or Phoenix more? If you had

1596
01:20:28,159 --> 01:20:29,319
to pick one, Well, I.

1597
01:20:29,359 --> 01:20:32,640
Speaker 2: Mean, in that situation, you go with the best players

1598
01:20:32,720 --> 01:20:35,079
I think in my point of view, and that's Kevin

1599
01:20:35,119 --> 01:20:37,760
Durand and that's Deven Booker. So I gotta go with

1600
01:20:37,840 --> 01:20:41,520
Phoenix and like the hope of them figuring it out.

1601
01:20:42,199 --> 01:20:43,760
But in terms of right now, if you're asking me

1602
01:20:43,880 --> 01:20:46,720
right now, which team I think has more cohesion, more

1603
01:20:47,439 --> 01:20:52,800
like seemingly chemistry, I'm going Kings. But in terms of talent,

1604
01:20:52,920 --> 01:20:55,319
it's just clearly it's Phoenix.

1605
01:20:55,760 --> 01:20:57,319
Speaker 1: I really I want to see the Kings in the

1606
01:20:57,359 --> 01:20:59,840
playoffs because I just want to see how like Sabonis

1607
01:20:59,880 --> 01:21:04,479
and Rosen have seen their efficiency plunge in postseason settings.

1608
01:21:04,880 --> 01:21:06,439
And now you've kind of like Zack Lavine's on a

1609
01:21:06,439 --> 01:21:08,359
floor general, I guess Malik Monk can he do that

1610
01:21:08,520 --> 01:21:10,920
stuff in the playoffs. I'd I just want to see

1611
01:21:11,399 --> 01:21:14,039
how it all comes together, like in playoff matchups, because

1612
01:21:14,079 --> 01:21:15,399
I don't know that was kind of one of my

1613
01:21:15,439 --> 01:21:17,680
bigger critiques of what if you weren't going to go

1614
01:21:17,880 --> 01:21:20,439
the start over route with Fox is I just don't

1615
01:21:20,479 --> 01:21:23,319
know that you've set yourself up to be one of

1616
01:21:23,399 --> 01:21:25,960
course adequate enough on defense, but two, whether your your

1617
01:21:26,039 --> 01:21:29,640
offense is weaponized enough play like from a playmaking standpoint

1618
01:21:30,079 --> 01:21:31,840
in the postseason, just because of what we've seen with

1619
01:21:31,960 --> 01:21:35,640
Sabonis and de Rosen specifically, I think.

1620
01:21:35,600 --> 01:21:39,119
Speaker 2: If Demartin Rosen comes in and plays Spurs basketball instead

1621
01:21:39,119 --> 01:21:41,880
of Bulls basketball, which was always what I thought he

1622
01:21:41,960 --> 01:21:45,479
would do in Sacramento and then he turned out to

1623
01:21:45,479 --> 01:21:48,319
play Bulls basketball where it was shot first past second,

1624
01:21:49,119 --> 01:21:52,159
I think they have a chance to optimize themselves. But

1625
01:21:52,319 --> 01:21:55,720
it just doesn't seem like DeMar is in that frame

1626
01:21:55,800 --> 01:21:58,760
of mind anymore, which is weird, really weird when you

1627
01:21:58,840 --> 01:22:01,239
think about it, Like, given his age, given the skill

1628
01:22:01,319 --> 01:22:05,520
set around the roster, Yeah, like I think he would

1629
01:22:05,600 --> 01:22:07,760
benefit greatly from being more of a playmaker.

1630
01:22:09,840 --> 01:22:13,359
Speaker 1: Final team the San Antonio Spurs, who are, in case

1631
01:22:13,399 --> 01:22:15,760
you care, a minus twenty seven point four per one

1632
01:22:15,840 --> 01:22:18,800
hundred when the Aaron Fox and Victor Wimayama share the floor,

1633
01:22:18,960 --> 01:22:21,319
was it one of the most biggest mistakes of all time,

1634
01:22:21,359 --> 01:22:22,760
wort to trade for Daron Fox.

1635
01:22:23,079 --> 01:22:27,800
Speaker 2: Just take time. Yeah, I'm not worried. This is one

1636
01:22:27,840 --> 01:22:31,439
of those situations where they have to get, you know,

1637
01:22:31,560 --> 01:22:34,279
shuffle together for a little while. And they were right

1638
01:22:34,359 --> 01:22:35,840
in it like the Atlantic game was.

1639
01:22:36,640 --> 01:22:38,720
Speaker 1: So they need time, but Luca and Lebron don't.

1640
01:22:38,960 --> 01:22:42,399
Speaker 2: No, it's very different, very very different. I think I

1641
01:22:42,520 --> 01:22:46,800
make a distinction between Diaron Fox and Luka Doncic. Shout

1642
01:22:46,840 --> 01:22:49,960
out to Bladi Dibach for apparently thinking both guys should

1643
01:22:50,000 --> 01:22:53,600
not play together back in twenty eighteen. Here's the thing,

1644
01:22:54,079 --> 01:22:56,760
They're already looking quite good. I get the rating that

1645
01:22:56,840 --> 01:22:58,479
you just typed ar.

1646
01:22:58,600 --> 01:23:00,319
Speaker 1: I was being as being dick.

1647
01:23:01,079 --> 01:23:04,039
Speaker 2: That's fair, you can be a dick. But like I

1648
01:23:04,479 --> 01:23:06,920
actually do think that the chemistry is looking pretty good.

1649
01:23:07,560 --> 01:23:10,720
Wemby is I can't believe I'm saying this, but Wenby

1650
01:23:10,840 --> 01:23:14,800
is kind of a problem right now. Just offensively. I

1651
01:23:14,920 --> 01:23:16,880
think he's hit a bit of a wall. I think

1652
01:23:17,760 --> 01:23:20,920
the whole Paris thing also, he was just exhausted from

1653
01:23:21,000 --> 01:23:25,359
that whole thing when he came back. Having the All

1654
01:23:25,439 --> 01:23:28,920
Star break is going to be a major major asset

1655
01:23:28,960 --> 01:23:31,479
for this team, and I look forward to watching them

1656
01:23:31,560 --> 01:23:34,439
coming out of that because I think he specifically needs

1657
01:23:34,439 --> 01:23:34,800
a break.

1658
01:23:35,159 --> 01:23:36,239
Speaker 1: Well, is he gonna get it?

1659
01:23:37,800 --> 01:23:39,479
Speaker 2: He's not gonna play a lot in the All Star Game,

1660
01:23:39,479 --> 01:23:42,279
I'm assuming or no, that's three games.

1661
01:23:42,119 --> 01:23:46,000
Speaker 1: Right They All Star setup now is so bizarre. But

1662
01:23:46,079 --> 01:23:48,680
I'm just he's gonna be there that weekend and is

1663
01:23:48,720 --> 01:23:50,840
it gonna be for a lot of those players that's

1664
01:23:50,920 --> 01:23:51,920
not necessarily like.

1665
01:23:52,439 --> 01:23:54,800
Speaker 2: But they have days off afterwards, right like you don't.

1666
01:23:55,199 --> 01:23:57,439
Isn't like almost a full week off? Now?

1667
01:23:58,319 --> 01:23:59,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is pretty it's close to that.

1668
01:23:59,640 --> 01:24:01,600
Speaker 2: I think, Yeah, like five or six days, that's what

1669
01:24:01,680 --> 01:24:04,000
I'm talking about, Like, because he's just going to enjoy

1670
01:24:04,239 --> 01:24:06,680
the first All Star Game for him and that's it.

1671
01:24:06,880 --> 01:24:09,920
But like they have to get him back into the

1672
01:24:09,960 --> 01:24:12,199
swing of things coming into the second half of the

1673
01:24:12,239 --> 01:24:13,800
season because he looks dead tired.

1674
01:24:14,920 --> 01:24:16,520
Speaker 1: Uh. They're not supposed to be a contender, but they

1675
01:24:16,560 --> 01:24:18,239
are a pretender just for that, and they'll be talked

1676
01:24:18,239 --> 01:24:20,319
about when we do I think rebuilding squads because they

1677
01:24:20,640 --> 01:24:22,880
they do still belong in that bucket.

1678
01:24:22,720 --> 01:24:28,159
Speaker 2: Right, But if if if they actually give Santra Mamokels

1679
01:24:28,199 --> 01:24:30,159
really some minutes, I don't know, man.

1680
01:24:30,119 --> 01:24:32,119
Speaker 1: They signed Beyambo so that they continue burning him on

1681
01:24:32,159 --> 01:24:32,880
that mansion.

1682
01:24:32,800 --> 01:24:33,600
Speaker 2: Actually annoyed me.

1683
01:24:33,840 --> 01:24:36,760
Speaker 1: I was like, no, actually I thought about that when

1684
01:24:36,800 --> 01:24:38,600
I saw the news. But I was so one taken

1685
01:24:38,600 --> 01:24:41,319
because Chris Hanes reported it and he had the Beyambo

1686
01:24:41,600 --> 01:24:44,319
Spurs Jersey edit ready and I was right. I respect

1687
01:24:44,399 --> 01:24:47,399
that level of psychoticness of like this is beyond we

1688
01:24:47,520 --> 01:24:50,319
need like the Spurs for a ten day contract ready.

1689
01:24:50,840 --> 01:24:52,840
But I actually thought of you when I saw the news. Yeah,

1690
01:24:52,880 --> 01:24:54,119
they signed beyonbo I.

1691
01:24:54,439 --> 01:24:56,279
Speaker 2: Am so For the people who don't know, I am

1692
01:24:56,439 --> 01:24:59,039
very high on Mamu. Good guy too, That's partner why

1693
01:24:59,039 --> 01:25:00,560
I'm high on him. I just think he's got so

1694
01:25:00,680 --> 01:25:04,079
much skill, Like he was a guy honestly during trade

1695
01:25:04,079 --> 01:25:06,520
to the line that if if a smart team out

1696
01:25:06,520 --> 01:25:08,880
there was like we need some depth, like we need

1697
01:25:09,000 --> 01:25:12,720
someone who can just produce, be big, use his size.

1698
01:25:13,039 --> 01:25:16,000
He hit the three you know pass on the move

1699
01:25:17,079 --> 01:25:19,279
that was him, Like the Lakers should have gone after him.

1700
01:25:19,560 --> 01:25:21,600
You would have been a perfect fit next to Luca.

1701
01:25:22,399 --> 01:25:24,079
Speaker 1: You would have given up your twenty thirty one pick

1702
01:25:24,119 --> 01:25:25,039
and twenty thirty.

1703
01:25:24,840 --> 01:25:27,439
Speaker 2: Oh because eight minutes a game, that's that's what you

1704
01:25:27,560 --> 01:25:29,720
call a low gamble upside play.

1705
01:25:29,960 --> 01:25:35,720
Speaker 1: Dan all right, So there'll be a contender once mom

1706
01:25:35,760 --> 01:25:37,640
who plays twenty minutes a game.

1707
01:25:37,720 --> 01:25:37,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1708
01:25:37,880 --> 01:25:42,000
Speaker 1: Absolutely, Bit that tell our listeners and viewers where they

1709
01:25:42,000 --> 01:25:43,880
can find you and all the fantastic work that you

1710
01:25:43,960 --> 01:25:47,520
do as we complete our look into the league's contender

1711
01:25:47,760 --> 01:25:49,039
or pretender ranks.

1712
01:25:49,680 --> 01:25:51,479
Speaker 2: Yes, so where they can find my work? I think

1713
01:25:51,600 --> 01:25:57,760
is sufficient to say only one only only fans for sure. Yes,

1714
01:25:57,920 --> 01:26:02,159
the only NBA content on only fans. Yes. I I

1715
01:26:02,279 --> 01:26:05,680
basically charge people just for me to keep my clothes on.

1716
01:26:06,199 --> 01:26:10,600
It's like a reverse thing. It works out pretty well. No,

1717
01:26:10,760 --> 01:26:13,800
you can find my work over at Yahoo, at Forbes

1718
01:26:13,840 --> 01:26:16,520
and taking a break from from Sports Illustrated these days.

1719
01:26:17,520 --> 01:26:19,560
You can also find my work over at the NBA

1720
01:26:19,640 --> 01:26:22,479
podcast and if you speak Danish, you can go to

1721
01:26:23,039 --> 01:26:27,159
bus rebater and find my podcast there.

1722
01:26:28,039 --> 01:26:30,079
Speaker 1: The Danish word of the podcast that I will learn.

1723
01:26:30,680 --> 01:26:37,760
Speaker 2: Oh do I remember? Can I? Yes? Very good?

1724
01:26:40,600 --> 01:26:43,920
Speaker 1: What's this? Nail clippers or scissors? Yeah?

1725
01:26:44,279 --> 01:26:44,960
Speaker 2: Nail clippers?

1726
01:26:45,079 --> 01:26:51,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, nyla sucks nyacks I found. I feel like that's

1727
01:26:51,399 --> 01:26:53,880
a like n F s W sounding. I like it

1728
01:26:54,119 --> 01:26:55,079
not suitable for work.

1729
01:26:57,199 --> 01:26:59,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's actually very very good for a first try.

1730
01:26:59,680 --> 01:27:01,239
I got to give you that that's really good.

1731
01:27:01,319 --> 01:27:03,560
Speaker 1: All right, So Soapela and Nila sucks.

1732
01:27:04,000 --> 01:27:05,239
Speaker 2: There we go, all right.

1733
01:27:05,319 --> 01:27:07,920
Speaker 1: Dan Lerd's Danish Part two wrapped up. Thank you all

1734
01:27:07,960 --> 01:27:11,399
for listening watching. Please remember to rate, review, subscribe to

1735
01:27:11,479 --> 01:27:14,479
both Hardware Knox and the NBA Podcast. We appreciate all

1736
01:27:14,520 --> 01:27:16,920
your support. Until next time, and as always, we leave

1737
01:27:16,920 --> 01:27:19,760
you to shout out to the one, the only, the indelible,

1738
01:27:19,960 --> 01:27:22,319
the one who could really turn the Burds into a

1739
01:27:22,399 --> 01:27:26,520
contender alongside Mamu and form a big two unlike any

1740
01:27:26,560 --> 01:27:29,479
other in the history of the NBA, Mister Frank Nila

1741
01:27:29,680 --> 01:27:29,960
Keina