WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I saw first name. My whole life is

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<v Speaker 1>that institutional capital is that pool is much larger than retail, right.

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<v Speaker 1>And so by going to businesses and saying hey, we

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<v Speaker 1>can offer a better model for you versus the status quo.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, if you support a USD and utilize us right,

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<v Speaker 1>they are now in turn going to their users and saying, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>actually we're going to build our best products around AUSD

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<v Speaker 1>because we're actually part of this economic value chain.

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<v Speaker 2>This content is brought to you by v chain, which

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<v Speaker 2>and Walmart China. Most recently, they partnered with the Boston

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<v Speaker 2>Consulting Group to build a revolutionary decentralized application ecosystem. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>a big believer in this project. I have been since

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<v Speaker 2>twenty eighteen. I've been a VET token holder for years.

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<v Speaker 2>And this blockchain is highly scalable, great with security and speed,

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<v Speaker 2>learn more about v chain, please visit vchain dot org.

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<v Speaker 2>Link will be in a description. Welcome into the Thinking

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<v Speaker 2>Crypto podcast. I'm your host, Tony Edward, and my guest

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<v Speaker 2>today is Nick van Eck, who's the founder of Agora. Nick.

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<v Speaker 2>Great to have you on.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, thanks for having me, Tony.

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<v Speaker 2>Nick. Agora launch a stable coin AUSD. I have a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of questions around that and how the stable coin

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<v Speaker 2>will be used, But let's start with your background. Tell

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<v Speaker 2>us a bit about yourself and your professional background.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so I spent most of my career as a

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<v Speaker 1>technology investor. My family runs an assa management business, so

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<v Speaker 1>it may not be a surprise that I got into

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<v Speaker 1>marcus and investing at a very early age. Always you

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<v Speaker 1>really thought that I wanted to get into the investing

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<v Speaker 1>world and make that that my career, and so I started,

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<v Speaker 1>uh you right out of school, focused primarily and enterprise

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<v Speaker 1>software at the growth stage, uh, and did that for

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<v Speaker 1>most of my career before starting a Gora.

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<v Speaker 2>UH.

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<v Speaker 1>Moved on to another firm called General Catalyst, which is

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<v Speaker 1>a large multi stage venture firm. Did much of the

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<v Speaker 1>same there, uh, But then DeFi summer came around and

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<v Speaker 1>slowly all my personal time got sucked up by crypto.

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<v Speaker 1>UH and having spent you know, my my day job

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<v Speaker 1>and in cloud software, I felt that blockchain was deep

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<v Speaker 1>back end innovation the financial services and UH payment companies

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<v Speaker 1>never had and that blockchain would eat those world that

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<v Speaker 1>that world in a very similar way to how cloud

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<v Speaker 1>ate on prem and a lot of human driven workflows

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<v Speaker 1>UH within within cloud software. And so UH decided to

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<v Speaker 1>start a Goora about a year and a half ago.

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<v Speaker 1>Officially started in about a year ago today, and yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>we've been growing for quickly and it's been a pretty

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<v Speaker 1>busy year.

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<v Speaker 2>Well congrats on one year anniversary. Amazing stuff. And I

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<v Speaker 2>want folks to understand your background, your family. Your dad

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<v Speaker 2>is of course yan Evan k K is one of

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<v Speaker 2>the big firms out there, and I followed your father

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<v Speaker 2>for years and learning about investments. You mentioned that you know,

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<v Speaker 2>your natural path was to go into the finance and

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<v Speaker 2>so forth. But how did you kind of discover crypto

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<v Speaker 2>and did you tell your father about that or how

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<v Speaker 2>did you guys both discover crypto.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so I actually started uh, you know, my own

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<v Speaker 1>portfolio when I was younger than thirteen, and my dad

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<v Speaker 1>managed on behalf of me, and I spent my years

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<v Speaker 1>in summers in college trying to figure out what I

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to do in the investing role, because there's a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of different things you could do. You could do

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<v Speaker 1>passive management, like a lot of what van x business is.

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<v Speaker 1>You're like ets and just design good products, index products.

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<v Speaker 1>You can actively manage, you know, whether that's like a

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<v Speaker 1>long short hedge fund, you can do to buy out

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<v Speaker 1>you know, VC. And so I was trying to figure

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<v Speaker 1>out what I really liked, you know, I liked you know,

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<v Speaker 1>what I liked specifically about investing is the intellectual curiosity

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<v Speaker 1>required that you were competing with, in my view, some

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<v Speaker 1>of the smartest people in the world, because there was

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<v Speaker 1>a lot at stake, and then you had to put

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<v Speaker 1>your money where your mouth is. And I felt that,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, most people didn't do that in sort of

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<v Speaker 1>the rest of the world. And so I spent my

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<v Speaker 1>summer trying to figure out what I wanted to do.

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<v Speaker 1>Was working for a hedge fund one summer, and they

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<v Speaker 1>were actually buying bitcoin at the time. This was a

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<v Speaker 1>twenty billion dollar deep value hedge fund in its peak,

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<v Speaker 1>and the founders of the firm were very intellectually curious.

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<v Speaker 1>We're like, you know, why are there these three thousand

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<v Speaker 1>cryptocurrencies that have already been launched. And this was you know,

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<v Speaker 1>early twenty sixteen. Most of the other crypto there's like

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<v Speaker 1>like coin, and then it was you know, raven coin,

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<v Speaker 1>rails blocks, et cetera. And they had this view that

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<v Speaker 1>bitcoin was going to eat a large chunk of the

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<v Speaker 1>gold market. And that was something that you know, immediately

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<v Speaker 1>resonated with me because my family runs one of the

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<v Speaker 1>largest gold minor funds in the world, and so I

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<v Speaker 1>sort of grew up getting cougarrants for my grandfather and

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<v Speaker 1>you know, grew up around a bunch of gold bugs,

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<v Speaker 1>and so that's when I first got exposed to it.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, it took me about a year to convince

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<v Speaker 1>him that bitcoin was like this real, real thing, but

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<v Speaker 1>you know, he's very open minded and sort of dove

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<v Speaker 1>right in. And van k was the first institutional firm

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<v Speaker 1>to file for a bitcoin e TF. They did that

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<v Speaker 1>back in twenty seventeen. And then, you know, I I

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<v Speaker 1>liked the hedge fund, but realized that it was a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit too short term and I wanted to focus

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<v Speaker 1>on more long term projects and so found my way

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<v Speaker 1>into technology investing. I really liked that you were building

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<v Speaker 1>companies at the front end of the tech curve and

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<v Speaker 1>building teams versus financial engineering, which was a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>what buy out private equity was, and so love that

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<v Speaker 1>did that for over five years. But it was very

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<v Speaker 1>clear to me that like blockchain was finally at the

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<v Speaker 1>point where it was going to eat financial services and payments.

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<v Speaker 1>And when I got into crypto, eth was trading it

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<v Speaker 1>like a few bucks. There were no no real DAPs,

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<v Speaker 1>like not really that many real users either, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>and even after the I c O boom, there still

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<v Speaker 1>was not much going on. It was really like DeFi

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<v Speaker 1>Summer that I think was the first true step function

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<v Speaker 1>change in like crypto applications and usage. And to me,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, with stables, they were just the stepping stone

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<v Speaker 1>into like the broader institutional adoption of blockchain technology. And

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<v Speaker 1>you know, we felt that we could build a bit

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<v Speaker 1>a better model, and so left my firm about a

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<v Speaker 1>year ago to start a Goora And yeah, it's been busy.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, So are you are you targeting more of the

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<v Speaker 2>enterprise level adoption of this stable coin AUSD or will

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<v Speaker 2>it also have a retail market, kind of like the

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<v Speaker 2>tethers and the USDC and so forth.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Ultimately, I think any healthy market has a combination

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<v Speaker 1>of both institutions and retail. For US, I would say,

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<v Speaker 1>we're more focused on going after, you know, the businesses

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<v Speaker 1>and using those businesses as our go to market engine

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<v Speaker 1>to the rest of the market. Something you know that

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<v Speaker 1>you know I saw first shame my whole life is

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<v Speaker 1>that institutional capital is that pool is much larger than retail, right,

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<v Speaker 1>And so by going to businesses and saying, hey, we

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<v Speaker 1>can offer a better model for you versus the status quo.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, if you support a us D and utilize

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<v Speaker 1>us right, they are now in turn going to their

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<v Speaker 1>users and saying, hey, actually we're going to build our

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<v Speaker 1>best products around a USD because we're actually part of

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<v Speaker 1>this economic value chain. Whereas with the USDC, about half

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<v Speaker 1>the income of USDC goes to coinbase, the other half

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<v Speaker 1>coast to Circle. And so if you're a centralized exchange

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<v Speaker 1>or a custodian or ADAP that is not you know,

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<v Speaker 1>one of those two companies, you're cut out from that

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<v Speaker 1>economic value chain. And the same is true for everyone.

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<v Speaker 1>But tether right. And so what we're doing is we're

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<v Speaker 1>going to exchanges, adapts, whomever and saying hey, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you know you should be part of this, right. It's

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<v Speaker 1>actually you that is driving utility and liquidity for these assets.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know by incorporating Agora into your into your app, like,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, you'll have a better business, right. And so

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<v Speaker 1>that's resonating with a lot of people. And so a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of these businesses are then either reducing on and

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<v Speaker 1>off ramp fees around a USD, reducing trading fees, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>being their points program for a USDU. You know there's

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<v Speaker 1>one app that's like triple the points if you use

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<v Speaker 1>a USD versus USDC. So they're all coming up with

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<v Speaker 1>their own creative ways, uh to drive AUSD adoption and

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<v Speaker 1>so ultimately that should trickle down to I would say,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, the non institutional or enterprise market, but you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I view healthy markets need to be a combination of

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<v Speaker 1>both those categories.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Absolutely, And to your point, like going to some

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<v Speaker 2>of these enterprises which have retail using their services would

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<v Speaker 2>be an easy way for distribution in the sense and

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<v Speaker 2>getting more people to use the app. So if you

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<v Speaker 2>went to I don't know. Well, if you let's say

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<v Speaker 2>ven K, yeah, right, it's an easy distribution through throughout

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<v Speaker 2>their current customer base. And by the way, will ven

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<v Speaker 2>K use a USD.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, they have their own liquid fund and venture fund

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<v Speaker 1>which I imagine will be using it in some capacity.

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<v Speaker 2>Tell us a bit about what blockchains a U S

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<v Speaker 2>the is currently available on and plan sixpand beyond that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So we started on Ethereum, mainenet towards the end

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<v Speaker 1>of the summer, launched Avalanche suiy and on Mantle, both

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<v Speaker 1>each a month after the other. Our most active chain

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<v Speaker 1>todate is Avalanche, although we're seeing, you know, the ensuing

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<v Speaker 1>chain is also growing at the same rate in terms

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<v Speaker 1>of volume in a M. In addition to to those networks, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>we already announced that we'll be uninjective, so that I'll

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<v Speaker 1>be coming soon, and then there's a few other large

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<v Speaker 1>networks that we'll be coming to. One that we're particularly

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<v Speaker 1>excited about is coming to Polygon's ag layer. So we

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<v Speaker 1>won that RFP against you know, the the largest players

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<v Speaker 1>in the market today, and so we'll be going to

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<v Speaker 1>that network natively, uh, you know, once once the ag

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<v Speaker 1>layer is up and live, and so that's one that

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<v Speaker 1>we're particularly excited about. And there'll be a few more

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<v Speaker 1>announcements coming over the next next few months, and then

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<v Speaker 1>I think we'll probably slow our deployment schedule, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>starting in Q two of next year.

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<v Speaker 2>And tell us about your reserves. What is what does

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<v Speaker 2>this consist of and how where is it being custody.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so from the get go, it's important to be

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<v Speaker 1>institutional grade and actually have scalability, right, and so one

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<v Speaker 1>of the advantages of you know, being a vanack is

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<v Speaker 1>that they have large asset bases at various banks, right,

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<v Speaker 1>And that's been particularly valuable over the last year given

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<v Speaker 1>Operation Choke point two point zero and the reluctance of

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<v Speaker 1>banks to touch crypto. And so State Street, which is

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<v Speaker 1>one of the largest gesips in the world that's a

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<v Speaker 1>globally systemic bank is managing, is the cash custodian and

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<v Speaker 1>the fund admin of the Agora Reserve Fund that is

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<v Speaker 1>in a Delaware Reserve Trust, and so the majority of

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<v Speaker 1>the assets sit with State Street. We have a very

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<v Speaker 1>small percentage with what I call settlement banks, so banks

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<v Speaker 1>that interact with our customers directly, and so we use

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<v Speaker 1>a variety of banks there, so that it's very quick

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<v Speaker 1>settlement when people want to redeem, and the assets are

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<v Speaker 1>primarily in overnight reverse repo and then short those assets

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<v Speaker 1>are managed by Vanac, so you have a you know,

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<v Speaker 1>money manager that manages over one hundred million dollars globally regulated,

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<v Speaker 1>been around for seventy plus years managing the assets, not

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<v Speaker 1>just Agora. So they're safe, secure, and you know theoretically

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<v Speaker 1>we could take in hundreds of billions of dollars tomorrow

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<v Speaker 1>given UH stage street size. You know, I don't think

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<v Speaker 1>that's going to happen, but you know, hopefully one day

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<v Speaker 1>it is the case.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Absolutely. How are you guys set up to avoid

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<v Speaker 2>situations like what happened to Circle with I believe with

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<v Speaker 2>silver Gate or I'm not mistaked.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, silver Gate SVB. Yeah, So it's by relying on

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<v Speaker 1>a very large bank, right, that is adhesive, right, So

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<v Speaker 1>you know, one of the mistakes of you know, one

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<v Speaker 1>of the challenges using regional banks and using uninsured bank

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<v Speaker 1>deposits that are out of a trust structure is that

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<v Speaker 1>they are then not as safe as if they were

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<v Speaker 1>in you know, a multi trillion dollar asset bank UH

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<v Speaker 1>where the assets are in a trust structure, and so

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<v Speaker 1>you know, from a structuring perspective, we wanted to nip

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<v Speaker 1>that issue in the bud from the get go and

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<v Speaker 1>to learn from i would say, others mistakes. And so

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<v Speaker 1>that's a circumstance that will not happen with us, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>unless you know the world is on fire.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but then we have bigger problems. Yeah, yes, correct,

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<v Speaker 2>are you playing to you may have mentioned this earlier,

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<v Speaker 2>but are you planning to offer yield and in both

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<v Speaker 2>on the institutional and the retail sign.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So the way that we think about it is ultimately,

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<v Speaker 1>you can't pay non KYC retail if you're interacting with

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<v Speaker 1>the banking system, right. And so we designed, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>our model around one being compliant, but also to delivering

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<v Speaker 1>value to the people that are driving it, to the

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<v Speaker 1>to the network. And so what we do is we

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<v Speaker 1>KYB the end business and then based on the assets

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<v Speaker 1>within their perimeter, we share the majority of the net income. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>So if there's you know, one hundred million of a

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<v Speaker 1>USD on adapp or an exchange that is KYBT with us,

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<v Speaker 1>we pass the majority of that income through and then

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<v Speaker 1>it's up to that business to choose how to build

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<v Speaker 1>the best products around AUSD, right, So that could be

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<v Speaker 1>by just you know, passing incentives to users. It could

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<v Speaker 1>be by like reducing trading fees or reducing you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the borrow fees, or incentivizing borrows or incentivizing deposits. It's

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<v Speaker 1>totally up to them. But that's ultimately like how we

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<v Speaker 1>are driving value back to the system. And you know,

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<v Speaker 1>if folks want a pure yield product, I think pure

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<v Speaker 1>yield products are are better, right, but ultimately stables and

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<v Speaker 1>yield products are are you quite quite different, And so

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<v Speaker 1>we want to reward the people that are actually helping

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<v Speaker 1>drive utility and equidity to our stable coin network, which

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<v Speaker 1>is very different than you know, if someone wants to

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<v Speaker 1>ten percent on a private credit fund and just sort

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<v Speaker 1>of sit there for six months.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that definitely makes sense. Now you mentioned KYC, and

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<v Speaker 2>we know sable coin legislation is being worked on here

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<v Speaker 2>in the US and will most likely include a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of that. KYC a m L. In the EU, they

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<v Speaker 2>passed the MICA regulation which seemed to disrupt Teather's business,

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<v Speaker 2>and I believe it's more related to KYC. So talk

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<v Speaker 2>to us about the importance of that and how these

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<v Speaker 2>regulators are going to you know, put together the legislation

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<v Speaker 2>for this market.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so I think there's a few things specifically with

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<v Speaker 1>MIKA that Tether didn't agree with. Yeah, some of them,

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<v Speaker 1>I I actually, you know, I agree with them as well.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, requiring x percentage to be in bank deposits,

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<v Speaker 1>which are you know, uninsured. It is probably not safe,

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<v Speaker 1>just based on what's happened with some other issuers, but

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<v Speaker 1>maybe just touching on you know, broad you know, broadly,

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<v Speaker 1>like how I think about this as the banking system.

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<v Speaker 1>If you're a fiatcoin, you interact with the banking system, right,

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<v Speaker 1>and they are very strict around k y C, a

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<v Speaker 1>m L, and like it's core to their business to

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<v Speaker 1>maintain that everyone is compliant and if that's not the case,

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<v Speaker 1>they're going to shut you off, right, And so as

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<v Speaker 1>an issuer, you need to be focused on adhering to

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<v Speaker 1>you know, appropriate regulation that you know, a lot of these

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<v Speaker 1>these large banks are going to have to follow, which

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<v Speaker 1>Tether does to a degree. And you know, and I

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<v Speaker 1>would say they're they're relatively compliant depending on the jurisdiction

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<v Speaker 1>with regards to like k y C and a mL.

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<v Speaker 1>It's just you know, you can't pay non identified wallets

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<v Speaker 1>right directly, that's probably a no no. And so we're

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<v Speaker 1>going to see and you know a lot of these

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<v Speaker 1>bills that are passing with stable coins in particular, say

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<v Speaker 1>you can't pay yield directly to people, right, those are

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<v Speaker 1>specifically yield products. And so that's why you know, from

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<v Speaker 1>our perspective, you should be rewarding the businesses you are

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<v Speaker 1>not altered necessarily the holders, but then it dry they

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<v Speaker 1>can drive value to your product and make it a

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<v Speaker 1>better experience for the users. Right, Whereas like, okay, if

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<v Speaker 1>you are yield product, like you're in an entirely separate

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<v Speaker 1>bugget regardless if it's in the US, the EU, or

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<v Speaker 1>like you know, Singapore, Hong Kong, somewhere else.

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<v Speaker 2>Question for you, and this may be a dumb question

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<v Speaker 2>if I'm thinking about it, right, you as the issuer,

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<v Speaker 2>Let's say you're working with Bank of America or something

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<v Speaker 2>like that, do you want to use a U s D?

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<v Speaker 2>Are you responsible for the KYC or is Bank of

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<v Speaker 2>America responsible for it? Based on who's using it through

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<v Speaker 2>their system?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah? So uh we KYB anyone that is minting and

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<v Speaker 1>redeeming the asset, right, so anyone that is sending US

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<v Speaker 1>fiat currency or redeeming a USD we do a you know,

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<v Speaker 1>rigorous enhanced dd KYB. But ultimately the stable coin is

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<v Speaker 1>freely transferable, with the exclusion of of course O fact

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<v Speaker 1>sanctioned wallets and some other edge cases. But beyond that, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>it's freely transferable. And we you know, engage with you

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<v Speaker 1>know a lot of the largest monitoring providers to make

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<v Speaker 1>sure that uh, you know, a U s C is

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<v Speaker 1>only in good actors hands, right, And so it's ultimately

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<v Speaker 1>up to US RAN. The banks are our trusting that

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<v Speaker 1>we're doing due diligence on all of our customers and

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<v Speaker 1>have these programs in place. You know, they look at

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<v Speaker 1>our m l K y C policies as well as

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<v Speaker 1>other policies that we have in place.

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<v Speaker 2>And I follow up question to the EU micah, are

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<v Speaker 2>are you guys only in the US market right now

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<v Speaker 2>or are you global or only insert?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we're actually primarily focused on the non US market.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh so Asia, Latin America. To me, that's where stable

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<v Speaker 1>coins are most valuable because you have emerging market, lateent

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<v Speaker 1>dollar demand and cross boarder payments like those. That's why

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<v Speaker 1>stable coins are most valuable today. You know, within the US, UH,

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<v Speaker 1>we all have relatively good banking services and payment services,

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<v Speaker 1>and so if you're being intellectually honest, I think the

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<v Speaker 1>value of stable coin is ten x more or even

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<v Speaker 1>one hundred next more valuable outside the United States, right

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<v Speaker 1>in countries where you may not have a strong rule

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<v Speaker 1>of law or good financial service institutions, or you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the financial services institutions may be very costly just to

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<v Speaker 1>even have an account. Right in many countries, double digit

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<v Speaker 1>percentages of the population are unbanked, right because they're just

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00:19:27.799 --> 00:19:30.440
<v Speaker 1>like not good enough, and so like this is where

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<v Speaker 1>technology can come in and solve those problems and give

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<v Speaker 1>everyone access to secure financial services right through defive and

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<v Speaker 1>so those are the markets that we're really focused on.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you foresee that these money transfer companies like your

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<v Speaker 2>Western Unions and money gram and so forth, are going

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<v Speaker 2>to use stable coins like a US or may they

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<v Speaker 2>try to launch their own although we've seen some of them.

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<v Speaker 2>I think they attempt to do, but it hasn't worked

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<v Speaker 2>that well. I think of JP Morgan jpm coin, because

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<v Speaker 2>it's not on a public blockchain, it's not free to move.

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<v Speaker 2>What are your thoughts on the future of these.

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<v Speaker 1>Companies, Yeah, I think a few will launch stable coins. Ultimately,

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<v Speaker 1>I think that's not a business that they should be in. Like,

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<v Speaker 1>I think they should just like leverage someone like US,

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<v Speaker 1>where you know, they're making the majority of the underlying

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<v Speaker 1>net income that's on their platform and they don't have

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<v Speaker 1>to worry about compliance, building the network, liquidity management, like

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<v Speaker 1>we handle all that for you, right, and so just

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<v Speaker 1>focus on the end relationship with your current customer base

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00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:36.599
<v Speaker 1>and providing like a better service. And so if it's

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<v Speaker 1>you know, the income from the stable that folks want, like,

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00:20:38.839 --> 00:20:41.240
<v Speaker 1>we're happy to provide that, and then you participate in

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<v Speaker 1>this broader liquidity network, right. Building a stable point network

376
00:20:45.839 --> 00:20:47.720
<v Speaker 1>is extremely hard. That's why I think you've seen many

377
00:20:47.799 --> 00:20:52.039
<v Speaker 1>people start to do it and then abandon it because

378
00:20:52.119 --> 00:20:55.200
<v Speaker 1>unless it's your core business, it's probably not something that

379
00:20:55.240 --> 00:20:59.680
<v Speaker 1>you should be doing, right. I think other service providers

380
00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:02.039
<v Speaker 1>like can come in and sort of cut the cut

381
00:21:02.079 --> 00:21:05.599
<v Speaker 1>the margins out from under USCC and tether and hopefully

382
00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:10.440
<v Speaker 1>make this a much more egalitarian monetary system m HM.

383
00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:13.640
<v Speaker 2>And in regardless to like wallet support, tell us a

384
00:21:13.640 --> 00:21:17.039
<v Speaker 2>bit about that. Are you currently partner with any major wallets?

385
00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:17.680
<v Speaker 2>And things like that.

386
00:21:18.400 --> 00:21:21.279
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so you know, most of the wallets can import

387
00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:23.799
<v Speaker 1>us if they want or you know, Consensus actually is

388
00:21:23.839 --> 00:21:27.119
<v Speaker 1>an investor in US, so meta mask, you know, any

389
00:21:27.160 --> 00:21:29.680
<v Speaker 1>of the major wallets, as long as you import our

390
00:21:29.960 --> 00:21:34.319
<v Speaker 1>ARC twenty token, it's it's available. And so we're planning

391
00:21:34.359 --> 00:21:37.240
<v Speaker 1>to launch a few campaigns and we've been working closely

392
00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:40.000
<v Speaker 1>with the ok x wallet team as well as a

393
00:21:40.079 --> 00:21:43.759
<v Speaker 1>number of the centralized exchange wallet teams. Most of them

394
00:21:43.759 --> 00:21:46.880
<v Speaker 1>have built really fantastic products in addition to you know,

395
00:21:46.880 --> 00:21:48.240
<v Speaker 1>standalone wallet companies.

396
00:21:49.160 --> 00:21:51.279
<v Speaker 2>I used to work for okay x, so if you

397
00:21:51.319 --> 00:21:52.440
<v Speaker 2>need any help there, help me know.

398
00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:55.359
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Now they're great and like the wallet is is

399
00:21:55.720 --> 00:22:00.920
<v Speaker 1>like top tier for sure, particularly like they're stable coin page,

400
00:22:00.920 --> 00:22:02.640
<v Speaker 1>which like sort of just shows you like a menu

401
00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:04.960
<v Speaker 1>of opportunities like okay, you want to you know, make

402
00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:06.920
<v Speaker 1>twenty percent on AUSD or U s D C U

403
00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:09.240
<v Speaker 1>s C T like hear all the different lending protocols

404
00:22:09.319 --> 00:22:11.519
<v Speaker 1>or a m MS. It's it's really well done.

405
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<v Speaker 2>As much as you can tell us what are some

406
00:22:15.799 --> 00:22:18.319
<v Speaker 2>of these strategies and tactics you have for growth and

407
00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:19.799
<v Speaker 2>what's kind of I don't once you give away your

408
00:22:19.839 --> 00:22:22.000
<v Speaker 2>secret sauce, but you know what, what's on your roadmap.

409
00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:25.839
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So one of the things that I believe is

410
00:22:26.079 --> 00:22:28.680
<v Speaker 1>as the issuer, you should, uh, you have the right

411
00:22:28.759 --> 00:22:33.079
<v Speaker 1>to do everything downstream from you cheaper, right, uh, particularly

412
00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:35.519
<v Speaker 1>on the on and off ramp side, the infrastructure side,

413
00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:38.119
<v Speaker 1>and then eventually some things in the in the app

414
00:22:38.119 --> 00:22:41.640
<v Speaker 1>player as well. Right. I think that's one of the

415
00:22:41.640 --> 00:22:45.480
<v Speaker 1>things to me that has been interesting is you know,

416
00:22:45.559 --> 00:22:49.960
<v Speaker 1>USDC abandoned their API product. I think that's an area

417
00:22:50.119 --> 00:22:52.640
<v Speaker 1>where you can see is leaning in at some point

418
00:22:52.960 --> 00:22:57.240
<v Speaker 1>in the future. Something that I'm also focused on is

419
00:22:57.279 --> 00:22:58.920
<v Speaker 1>like what is like the next what are the next

420
00:22:58.920 --> 00:23:03.279
<v Speaker 1>one hundred x markets stables and so you know, I

421
00:23:03.279 --> 00:23:05.279
<v Speaker 1>don't want to get too deep into that, but I

422
00:23:05.279 --> 00:23:07.839
<v Speaker 1>can tell you we're not trying to compete for BTC

423
00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:10.160
<v Speaker 1>price discovery on finance against tether. I think that's a

424
00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:14.400
<v Speaker 1>losing battle, and so we're focused on other things. But

425
00:23:14.440 --> 00:23:17.720
<v Speaker 1>I think crypto trading is sort of V one of

426
00:23:17.799 --> 00:23:20.720
<v Speaker 1>stables and V two and three are going to be

427
00:23:21.759 --> 00:23:24.920
<v Speaker 1>much bigger than the status quo today, which is like

428
00:23:24.960 --> 00:23:27.559
<v Speaker 1>you know, it's mostly crypto trading. So we're going to

429
00:23:27.599 --> 00:23:29.680
<v Speaker 1>be focused on a lot of those those use cases.

430
00:23:31.599 --> 00:23:34.160
<v Speaker 2>Anything on micro payments or is it too early for

431
00:23:34.200 --> 00:23:38.200
<v Speaker 2>you guys, you know where people can do micro transactions

432
00:23:38.279 --> 00:23:41.799
<v Speaker 2>or creators can get streaming revenue and AUSD and things

433
00:23:41.839 --> 00:23:42.079
<v Speaker 2>like that.

434
00:23:42.359 --> 00:23:44.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we're working with a few of the Social five companies,

435
00:23:45.039 --> 00:23:47.559
<v Speaker 1>a lot of number of gaming companies, and so that

436
00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:51.160
<v Speaker 1>you'll just start to see AUSD just popping up more

437
00:23:51.960 --> 00:23:54.839
<v Speaker 1>in your favorite ecosystems and apps, because it's ultimately better

438
00:23:54.839 --> 00:23:57.640
<v Speaker 1>for those businesses, right because they actually get to capture

439
00:23:57.640 --> 00:24:00.880
<v Speaker 1>a lot of the economic value. And so on the

440
00:24:00.880 --> 00:24:03.799
<v Speaker 1>micro payment side, you know, there's not much that we're

441
00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:08.119
<v Speaker 1>doing there yet, but you will see a lot more

442
00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:12.400
<v Speaker 1>announcements with us and different payment providers early next year

443
00:24:13.279 --> 00:24:16.400
<v Speaker 1>where we'll get much more deeply embedded within in the

444
00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:18.480
<v Speaker 1>payment ecosystem.

445
00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:21.160
<v Speaker 2>Talk to us a bit a bit about your vision

446
00:24:21.240 --> 00:24:24.640
<v Speaker 2>for payments or how you see the payments market evolving

447
00:24:25.160 --> 00:24:28.839
<v Speaker 2>with the mixture of stable coins and crypto assets. You know,

448
00:24:28.880 --> 00:24:31.839
<v Speaker 2>are we gonna see the elimination of the western unions

449
00:24:31.839 --> 00:24:33.559
<v Speaker 2>and the money grams because I can just do peer

450
00:24:33.559 --> 00:24:35.440
<v Speaker 2>to peer payments and I could use the stable coins

451
00:24:35.480 --> 00:24:39.039
<v Speaker 2>settles instantly very low fees. I could do a twenty

452
00:24:39.160 --> 00:24:41.079
<v Speaker 2>four to seven, no delays and things like that.

453
00:24:42.440 --> 00:24:44.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think you won't see the end of Western Union,

454
00:24:45.240 --> 00:24:47.720
<v Speaker 1>but you'll see their margins collapse, and I think you'll

455
00:24:47.720 --> 00:24:52.160
<v Speaker 1>see their market share collapse. Right if you have a relative,

456
00:24:52.880 --> 00:24:56.400
<v Speaker 1>you know, whether it's in Singapore or Australia or Argentina

457
00:24:56.559 --> 00:25:00.839
<v Speaker 1>or Germany. Right, it's just stables are not just ten

458
00:25:01.039 --> 00:25:04.039
<v Speaker 1>x better, like one hundred x better. Right, you know

459
00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:07.079
<v Speaker 1>there's the still I would say hard piece. It's not

460
00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:09.400
<v Speaker 1>that hard, but it needs to be figured out. Is

461
00:25:09.400 --> 00:25:11.440
<v Speaker 1>the on and off ramps right? And does the stable

462
00:25:11.480 --> 00:25:14.359
<v Speaker 1>that you're sending have good on and off ramps? Right?

463
00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:16.960
<v Speaker 1>You know, which is on the infrastructure side, and obviously

464
00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:21.640
<v Speaker 1>something that will be focused on. So I think stable

465
00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:23.599
<v Speaker 1>pains will really start to eat into the cross border

466
00:25:23.640 --> 00:25:28.279
<v Speaker 1>just dollar markets and the P two P remittance markets,

467
00:25:28.799 --> 00:25:31.920
<v Speaker 1>which I think they've already done pretty pretty good job

468
00:25:31.960 --> 00:25:34.519
<v Speaker 1>of making a dent into. And then I think in

469
00:25:34.599 --> 00:25:38.480
<v Speaker 1>terms of cross border things, FX is next. Right, So

470
00:25:39.319 --> 00:25:41.240
<v Speaker 1>today a lot of people are doing one leg of

471
00:25:41.240 --> 00:25:43.079
<v Speaker 1>the trade in stables and the other is like still

472
00:25:43.079 --> 00:25:48.160
<v Speaker 1>in fiat. I think you'll start to see the growth

473
00:25:48.440 --> 00:25:51.400
<v Speaker 1>of a number of non US dollar stables over the

474
00:25:51.400 --> 00:25:55.200
<v Speaker 1>next five to ten years, which hasn't really occurred yet.

475
00:25:56.079 --> 00:25:59.960
<v Speaker 1>I think the ultimately the market size there is limit

476
00:26:01.640 --> 00:26:05.000
<v Speaker 1>because you know, the US is just the dominant currency

477
00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:08.880
<v Speaker 1>for global trade, it's the global reserve asset. But also

478
00:26:08.920 --> 00:26:11.480
<v Speaker 1>people that aren't even Americans want to hold dollars. This

479
00:26:11.519 --> 00:26:15.640
<v Speaker 1>isn't really the case for other currencies. Like You've had

480
00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:19.039
<v Speaker 1>all these euro stables that have been around for years now,

481
00:26:19.599 --> 00:26:21.640
<v Speaker 1>and I think they're not really going to take off

482
00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:27.119
<v Speaker 1>other than for FX reasons and like basic balance reasons

483
00:26:28.440 --> 00:26:30.599
<v Speaker 1>because just like no one outside like you know, as

484
00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:33.240
<v Speaker 1>an American, I'm never I'm not holding a europe right,

485
00:26:33.279 --> 00:26:36.240
<v Speaker 1>whereas that's not that's not you know, their ship call

486
00:26:36.319 --> 00:26:36.880
<v Speaker 1>is not true.

487
00:26:37.400 --> 00:26:40.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Absolutely, And the US of course has the advantage

488
00:26:40.599 --> 00:26:43.160
<v Speaker 2>of having the world reserve currency, so everybody wants the

489
00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:48.400
<v Speaker 2>dollars and until there's some major geopolitical shift, that's going

490
00:26:48.440 --> 00:26:51.480
<v Speaker 2>to be the case, and stable coins, the US back

491
00:26:51.519 --> 00:26:54.559
<v Speaker 2>stable coins makes sense. What are your thoughts on the

492
00:26:54.599 --> 00:26:58.039
<v Speaker 2>dialogue that's happening in Washington, d C. Of helping to

493
00:26:58.119 --> 00:27:01.640
<v Speaker 2>preserve the world reserve currency status by having the US

494
00:27:01.720 --> 00:27:04.440
<v Speaker 2>the backstable coins, and that the US government needs to

495
00:27:04.480 --> 00:27:07.880
<v Speaker 2>move forward and getting proper legislation and clarity so companies

496
00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:09.960
<v Speaker 2>like yourself can feel free to build.

497
00:27:10.799 --> 00:27:15.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think, you know, the announcements over the last

498
00:27:15.200 --> 00:27:19.000
<v Speaker 1>few weeks have been really positive for development within the

499
00:27:19.079 --> 00:27:23.599
<v Speaker 1>United States. I think it's very clear now that US

500
00:27:23.680 --> 00:27:27.119
<v Speaker 1>dollar stables are like the best economic and almost defense

501
00:27:27.160 --> 00:27:30.960
<v Speaker 1>tech weapon that the US government hasn't created or a

502
00:27:31.000 --> 00:27:34.240
<v Speaker 1>defense company hasn't created, because you know, what we're doing

503
00:27:34.279 --> 00:27:37.400
<v Speaker 1>every single day is going and you know, trying to

504
00:27:37.400 --> 00:27:42.079
<v Speaker 1>grow the dollars usage outside the US right. Ultimately, that

505
00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:47.720
<v Speaker 1>reduces the cost of the federal debt and expands American

506
00:27:47.799 --> 00:27:51.720
<v Speaker 1>soft power globally, which is great. I think, you know,

507
00:27:51.720 --> 00:27:55.519
<v Speaker 1>people from both sides of the aisle recognize that, and

508
00:27:55.599 --> 00:27:59.240
<v Speaker 1>I think particularly with some of the appointments, you know,

509
00:27:59.240 --> 00:28:01.200
<v Speaker 1>although they're pending over the next few weeks and some

510
00:28:01.240 --> 00:28:05.160
<v Speaker 1>of the rights of resignations, things you know, within the

511
00:28:05.240 --> 00:28:11.200
<v Speaker 1>States are looking much more receptive to crypto and so

512
00:28:11.319 --> 00:28:14.160
<v Speaker 1>it's Yeah, I think things seem to be moving nicely,

513
00:28:14.200 --> 00:28:15.200
<v Speaker 1>which is great.

514
00:28:15.440 --> 00:28:19.519
<v Speaker 2>What are your thoughts about cbdc's and the mixture of

515
00:28:19.559 --> 00:28:21.880
<v Speaker 2>this with stable coins in the open market now, we

516
00:28:22.200 --> 00:28:25.319
<v Speaker 2>haven't really seen any major CBDCs. There is talks of

517
00:28:25.400 --> 00:28:27.279
<v Speaker 2>China has a digital you want. I haven't seen it.

518
00:28:27.319 --> 00:28:30.400
<v Speaker 2>I have never seen anybody use it. But you know,

519
00:28:30.440 --> 00:28:33.480
<v Speaker 2>there's a talk of wholesale versus retail. So do you

520
00:28:33.480 --> 00:28:35.799
<v Speaker 2>think the CBDCs are going to be running behind the

521
00:28:35.799 --> 00:28:38.799
<v Speaker 2>scenes with the federal government so to speak? And I

522
00:28:38.839 --> 00:28:41.960
<v Speaker 2>hope not, right, but use retail is going to be

523
00:28:42.039 --> 00:28:44.000
<v Speaker 2>using the stable coins, Like I'm not a fan of

524
00:28:44.039 --> 00:28:47.720
<v Speaker 2>CBDCs either. I would rather the free market stable coins, right,

525
00:28:48.039 --> 00:28:50.440
<v Speaker 2>But it seems some governments are working on these things.

526
00:28:51.640 --> 00:28:55.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I you know, each country is different. I don't

527
00:28:55.599 --> 00:28:58.319
<v Speaker 1>think they'll ever be well received in the United States

528
00:28:59.319 --> 00:29:04.720
<v Speaker 1>because I think think it's a dangerous tool for anyone

529
00:29:04.799 --> 00:29:08.200
<v Speaker 1>to have. Right is Okay, I can basically delete the

530
00:29:08.279 --> 00:29:12.519
<v Speaker 1>money from your bank account if you say political speech

531
00:29:12.559 --> 00:29:15.799
<v Speaker 1>I don't agree with, right, And I think in the

532
00:29:15.880 --> 00:29:18.440
<v Speaker 1>United States over the last couple of months, there's been

533
00:29:19.319 --> 00:29:24.119
<v Speaker 1>a lot of concern right around censorship, right, you know,

534
00:29:24.160 --> 00:29:25.599
<v Speaker 1>And and it's sort of us living in like this

535
00:29:25.680 --> 00:29:31.559
<v Speaker 1>crypto Twitter bubble, right, you know, I think we're most

536
00:29:31.559 --> 00:29:36.359
<v Speaker 1>folks are aware of that, right and sort of you know,

537
00:29:36.440 --> 00:29:40.160
<v Speaker 1>I came at bitcoin originally because I'm relatively like libertarian

538
00:29:41.759 --> 00:29:45.119
<v Speaker 1>and believe that ultimately like federal debt is is bad

539
00:29:45.200 --> 00:29:50.720
<v Speaker 1>and federal government power is scary if you know, if

540
00:29:50.839 --> 00:29:56.240
<v Speaker 1>used improperly, which almost always inevitably ends up being the case. Uh,

541
00:29:56.440 --> 00:29:59.720
<v Speaker 1>And so CBBC's I think are a scary weapon and

542
00:29:59.720 --> 00:30:05.480
<v Speaker 1>hope never introduced in America, but you know, much less

543
00:30:05.480 --> 00:30:07.079
<v Speaker 1>any other country in the world. But I think other

544
00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:10.720
<v Speaker 1>nations are maybe going to be less lucky than us.

545
00:30:10.759 --> 00:30:11.160
<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

546
00:30:11.799 --> 00:30:14.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, No, it's a great point, and it's it's a

547
00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:16.319
<v Speaker 2>lot of it's TBD but we know they say, like

548
00:30:16.440 --> 00:30:19.599
<v Speaker 2>China seems to have one in the wild somewhere that

549
00:30:19.640 --> 00:30:24.519
<v Speaker 2>they're testing, and thankfully here at least, you know, within

550
00:30:24.559 --> 00:30:28.400
<v Speaker 2>our walls, so to speak. It seems like the country's

551
00:30:28.440 --> 00:30:31.359
<v Speaker 2>movement in direction no cbdc's, but more free market.

552
00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:34.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I just like don't think the American people like

553
00:30:34.160 --> 00:30:36.359
<v Speaker 1>would like tolerate that, like it would just be like

554
00:30:36.400 --> 00:30:38.279
<v Speaker 1>a little bit crazy. It'd also like kind of blow

555
00:30:38.359 --> 00:30:41.799
<v Speaker 1>up the existing banking system. So I think, fortunately it's

556
00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:43.240
<v Speaker 1>it's not something that's going to happen here.

557
00:30:44.279 --> 00:30:47.559
<v Speaker 2>So on that note, when we think about currency, right

558
00:30:47.640 --> 00:30:49.680
<v Speaker 2>and the movement of money and how the Federal Reserve

559
00:30:49.759 --> 00:30:52.400
<v Speaker 2>and the Treasury track all these things and they look,

560
00:30:52.440 --> 00:30:57.079
<v Speaker 2>they have levers they pull to inject liquidity, move the

561
00:30:57.200 --> 00:30:59.680
<v Speaker 2>velocity or increase the velocity of money and things like that.

562
00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:04.640
<v Speaker 2>Will stable count legislation? Do you think mandate that the

563
00:31:04.759 --> 00:31:06.640
<v Speaker 2>that you have to connect to the Treasury in some

564
00:31:06.680 --> 00:31:09.680
<v Speaker 2>way via API and they need to track all the

565
00:31:09.839 --> 00:31:12.039
<v Speaker 2>issuance and everything like that. Do you think things like

566
00:31:12.240 --> 00:31:13.240
<v Speaker 2>may go that direction.

567
00:31:16.359 --> 00:31:20.200
<v Speaker 1>I would be surprised if the legislation is that technology

568
00:31:20.240 --> 00:31:22.759
<v Speaker 1>technologically forward where you have to connect it with API.

569
00:31:23.680 --> 00:31:27.200
<v Speaker 1>I think we'll just have to see. I'm I'm not

570
00:31:27.279 --> 00:31:30.119
<v Speaker 1>really one that likes to speculated on legislation, just because

571
00:31:30.160 --> 00:31:33.039
<v Speaker 1>I have seen how slow moving things can be in

572
00:31:33.079 --> 00:31:35.240
<v Speaker 1>the United States. I mean, look, it took seven years

573
00:31:35.279 --> 00:31:38.640
<v Speaker 1>from Vanak, which was, you know, a top ten global

574
00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:41.279
<v Speaker 1>ETF issho were to file for a Spot product ETF

575
00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:44.799
<v Speaker 1>for it to go live like very vanilla products. You know,

576
00:31:44.839 --> 00:31:48.559
<v Speaker 1>there's like three x inverse lever and oil services ETFs.

577
00:31:48.599 --> 00:31:52.920
<v Speaker 1>But you know Spotpiquini ETF was verboten. So I'm out

578
00:31:52.920 --> 00:31:55.160
<v Speaker 1>of like the legislative guessing game these days, and I

579
00:31:55.319 --> 00:31:56.960
<v Speaker 1>just react to what happens.

580
00:31:57.400 --> 00:31:59.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, for sure. You know, on that note of big quo,

581
00:32:00.279 --> 00:32:03.200
<v Speaker 2>are you blown away by the growth of this asset.

582
00:32:03.319 --> 00:32:05.119
<v Speaker 2>It is now in the political realm, It's now in

583
00:32:05.160 --> 00:32:09.240
<v Speaker 2>the tradfire realm. Obviously with et apps. Countries are buying it.

584
00:32:09.759 --> 00:32:13.880
<v Speaker 2>There's a Bitcoin Strategic Reserve bill on the table. States

585
00:32:13.920 --> 00:32:15.680
<v Speaker 2>are also looking to do the same thing as the

586
00:32:15.720 --> 00:32:17.680
<v Speaker 2>federal government. What are your thoughts on the growth.

587
00:32:19.599 --> 00:32:22.799
<v Speaker 1>I'm not surprised, Like this is my thesis since twenty sixteen,

588
00:32:22.880 --> 00:32:25.359
<v Speaker 1>is that it's going to subsume the gold market because

589
00:32:25.359 --> 00:32:27.480
<v Speaker 1>it's a much better product. You know, as someone that

590
00:32:27.599 --> 00:32:34.079
<v Speaker 1>grew up in online right, So I'm not surprised. I

591
00:32:34.119 --> 00:32:38.759
<v Speaker 1>will say it happened a little bit quicker than I

592
00:32:38.799 --> 00:32:42.759
<v Speaker 1>expected to be honest, I didn't really think and I

593
00:32:42.880 --> 00:32:45.119
<v Speaker 1>really never The one thing I am surprised about is

594
00:32:45.160 --> 00:32:47.920
<v Speaker 1>it becoming more of a political issue within the United States.

595
00:32:47.960 --> 00:32:49.960
<v Speaker 1>It never should have been. Yeah, and I think a

596
00:32:49.960 --> 00:32:54.519
<v Speaker 1>lot of that was in part because you had Sam

597
00:32:54.559 --> 00:33:01.519
<v Speaker 1>Bankman free donate so publicly to political organizations and that

598
00:33:01.519 --> 00:33:04.480
<v Speaker 1>that then had knock on effects. So I am a

599
00:33:04.519 --> 00:33:07.359
<v Speaker 1>little bit surprised by that. But of the growth of

600
00:33:07.400 --> 00:33:11.559
<v Speaker 1>the asset I'm not. I think, you know, this was

601
00:33:13.119 --> 00:33:16.519
<v Speaker 1>almost inevitable. You know, once the debt printing train gets

602
00:33:16.759 --> 00:33:18.559
<v Speaker 1>you know, going on the tracks, it's really hard to

603
00:33:18.599 --> 00:33:22.720
<v Speaker 1>stop it. And you know, bitcoin is is in some

604
00:33:22.759 --> 00:33:23.839
<v Speaker 1>ways an antidote to that.

605
00:33:24.039 --> 00:33:28.160
<v Speaker 2>So what is your outlook for the market in twenty

606
00:33:28.200 --> 00:33:31.680
<v Speaker 2>twenty five? Do you see continued growth, you know, kind

607
00:33:31.720 --> 00:33:32.920
<v Speaker 2>of following to four year cycle?

608
00:33:33.799 --> 00:33:37.440
<v Speaker 1>I think so, you know, I think we're obviously in

609
00:33:37.480 --> 00:33:43.480
<v Speaker 1>a period of elevated enthusiasm given the change in attitudes

610
00:33:43.960 --> 00:33:46.880
<v Speaker 1>you know, within the federal government that are probably coming

611
00:33:47.240 --> 00:33:50.480
<v Speaker 1>within the United States, and US is the largest global economy,

612
00:33:50.480 --> 00:33:53.160
<v Speaker 1>so that's a big deal. I also think a lot

613
00:33:53.359 --> 00:33:59.759
<v Speaker 1>of G seven countries look at the US financial services

614
00:33:59.759 --> 00:34:02.920
<v Speaker 1>in for sort of like guidance on you know, what

615
00:34:03.079 --> 00:34:07.440
<v Speaker 1>to do next. So I think we'll have continued growth

616
00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:11.480
<v Speaker 1>within twenty two, you know, throughout twenty twenty five, you know.

617
00:34:11.559 --> 00:34:14.880
<v Speaker 1>I I sort of view like US as in being

618
00:34:14.920 --> 00:34:18.519
<v Speaker 1>like inning number one of like real crypto, which is

619
00:34:18.559 --> 00:34:22.000
<v Speaker 1>like non speculative assets, and like Inning number six or

620
00:34:22.039 --> 00:34:26.719
<v Speaker 1>seven of speculative crypto. And so I think speculative crypto

621
00:34:26.760 --> 00:34:29.719
<v Speaker 1>will be a little bit more short lived next year,

622
00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:32.280
<v Speaker 1>whereas I would say, like real crypto, So just the

623
00:34:32.360 --> 00:34:36.079
<v Speaker 1>adoption of blockchain technology, stable coins, tokenized assets will kind

624
00:34:36.079 --> 00:34:39.199
<v Speaker 1>of continue to compound at a very steady rate. And

625
00:34:39.239 --> 00:34:41.519
<v Speaker 1>I think that's gonna be true for the next twenty years, right,

626
00:34:41.559 --> 00:34:43.119
<v Speaker 1>And so I think that part of the industry is

627
00:34:43.119 --> 00:34:46.960
<v Speaker 1>going to be way less cyclical than the speculative aspect.

628
00:34:47.440 --> 00:34:49.679
<v Speaker 1>And so, you know, we were expecting it to be

629
00:34:49.719 --> 00:34:53.000
<v Speaker 1>a great year. You know, maybe things are accelerated a

630
00:34:53.000 --> 00:34:55.440
<v Speaker 1>little bit by what's gone on in Washington, but you

631
00:34:55.440 --> 00:34:57.400
<v Speaker 1>know where we sit and sort of the stable coins,

632
00:34:57.400 --> 00:35:01.880
<v Speaker 1>institutional capital world and stitutional products, and that is going

633
00:35:01.920 --> 00:35:04.079
<v Speaker 1>to be growing in a really high compound rate for

634
00:35:04.119 --> 00:35:06.079
<v Speaker 1>the next twenty years. Now.

635
00:35:06.119 --> 00:35:08.800
<v Speaker 2>You mentioned tokenization, and we're seeing some of the largest

636
00:35:08.840 --> 00:35:10.920
<v Speaker 2>firms on Wallstreet, black Rock, and so forth, they are

637
00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:14.119
<v Speaker 2>starting to tokenize. You are doing a form of tokenization

638
00:35:14.280 --> 00:35:17.480
<v Speaker 2>with stable coins, Are you planning to or are you

639
00:35:17.639 --> 00:35:21.800
<v Speaker 2>thinking about other forms of tokenization that Agora may want

640
00:35:21.840 --> 00:35:24.800
<v Speaker 2>to get involved with, whether it's tokenized goal, tokenize real

641
00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:25.880
<v Speaker 2>estate and things like that.

642
00:35:26.320 --> 00:35:28.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, not at the moment. Ultimately, we just want to

643
00:35:28.280 --> 00:35:31.360
<v Speaker 1>be the op stable between all these different assets, right,

644
00:35:31.360 --> 00:35:33.440
<v Speaker 1>and so we're working We'll plan and work with a

645
00:35:33.480 --> 00:35:38.000
<v Speaker 1>number of different asset management companies r WA providers like

646
00:35:38.039 --> 00:35:40.760
<v Speaker 1>we just want to be that neutral glue that stitches

647
00:35:40.800 --> 00:35:44.000
<v Speaker 1>everything together. We don't want to launch competing products. We're

648
00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:46.400
<v Speaker 1>probably not going to ever launch a non US dollar stable,

649
00:35:47.239 --> 00:35:49.480
<v Speaker 1>certainly not on the roadmap now, but I guess never

650
00:35:49.519 --> 00:35:53.639
<v Speaker 1>say never, or any sort of other tokenized product. We

651
00:35:53.719 --> 00:35:57.480
<v Speaker 1>ultimately just want to work with with other issuers of

652
00:35:57.519 --> 00:35:59.639
<v Speaker 1>those types of assets and help make their products better.

653
00:36:00.079 --> 00:36:04.679
<v Speaker 2>Mm hm. You know you mentioned something earlier about you

654
00:36:04.679 --> 00:36:09.599
<v Speaker 2>in twenty sixteen, you saw bitcoins rise in a digital world.

655
00:36:09.679 --> 00:36:12.000
<v Speaker 2>You're on the younger side. I think you're probably younger

656
00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:16.760
<v Speaker 2>than me. We got gen z Jen Alpha and all

657
00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:20.079
<v Speaker 2>these folks right that are coming up and they live

658
00:36:20.079 --> 00:36:23.639
<v Speaker 2>in a digital world and they don't necessarily care about

659
00:36:23.679 --> 00:36:26.679
<v Speaker 2>golden stocks, but they like crypto. They're like meme coins.

660
00:36:27.159 --> 00:36:28.519
<v Speaker 2>You know, I'd love to get your take on that.

661
00:36:28.719 --> 00:36:32.760
<v Speaker 2>And it seems that you know, they're going to gravitate

662
00:36:32.800 --> 00:36:35.559
<v Speaker 2>to label coins and gravitate to bitcoin and crypto and

663
00:36:35.960 --> 00:36:39.400
<v Speaker 2>things in the digital rem versus you know, the older generation.

664
00:36:39.760 --> 00:36:41.199
<v Speaker 2>What are your thoughts on that change?

665
00:36:42.400 --> 00:36:49.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you're thankfully I'm a millennial, but your gen z, yeah,

666
00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:50.320
<v Speaker 1>I think they.

667
00:36:53.880 --> 00:36:54.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

668
00:36:54.079 --> 00:36:56.159
<v Speaker 1>One of the things that's going to influence their behavior,

669
00:36:56.199 --> 00:37:01.719
<v Speaker 1>I think more so than my generation or older generations,

670
00:37:02.880 --> 00:37:07.280
<v Speaker 1>is that they live in like a social finance world, right.

671
00:37:07.880 --> 00:37:12.239
<v Speaker 1>Like something that I didn't really ever think about when

672
00:37:12.280 --> 00:37:14.719
<v Speaker 1>like first getting into bitcoin like eight plus years ago

673
00:37:14.760 --> 00:37:20.519
<v Speaker 1>now was how much of a role communication technology you'll

674
00:37:20.519 --> 00:37:25.320
<v Speaker 1>play on and on sort of investing or asset prices.

675
00:37:26.159 --> 00:37:28.320
<v Speaker 1>You sort of saw this with almost like the sevb

676
00:37:29.320 --> 00:37:33.920
<v Speaker 1>Uh bank run, right, is like that was propagated on

677
00:37:33.960 --> 00:37:36.480
<v Speaker 1>Twitter and then everyone withdrew their money and then the

678
00:37:36.519 --> 00:37:40.840
<v Speaker 1>bank imploded. Right, you know, people say, oh, look this

679
00:37:40.920 --> 00:37:44.880
<v Speaker 1>meme coin's going up, and people just pile in, you know,

680
00:37:44.960 --> 00:37:49.119
<v Speaker 1>almost instantaneously. Like that I think is very different from

681
00:37:49.400 --> 00:37:51.480
<v Speaker 1>ten years ago, twenty years ago, when it's like okay,

682
00:37:51.519 --> 00:37:54.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, put money you know in uh the S

683
00:37:54.480 --> 00:37:56.559
<v Speaker 1>and P five hundred and just sit on it. You know,

684
00:37:56.800 --> 00:37:58.800
<v Speaker 1>you know it's probably gonna compound at six seven percent

685
00:37:58.800 --> 00:38:02.800
<v Speaker 1>a year. It's safe. Secure. Like there's like sort of

686
00:38:02.840 --> 00:38:09.639
<v Speaker 1>this social element now that's been introduced to asset prices,

687
00:38:09.719 --> 00:38:14.639
<v Speaker 1>whether it's crypto or other things that I think is

688
00:38:15.679 --> 00:38:18.880
<v Speaker 1>actually what's like driving maybe a behavioral change that I

689
00:38:18.880 --> 00:38:23.039
<v Speaker 1>don't necessarily know if it's good or bad, Like is

690
00:38:23.079 --> 00:38:27.440
<v Speaker 1>it you know, if people are spending like their savings

691
00:38:27.480 --> 00:38:30.639
<v Speaker 1>on things that can lose their value in an hour,

692
00:38:30.920 --> 00:38:32.639
<v Speaker 1>like the entirety of their value in an hour, Like

693
00:38:32.679 --> 00:38:35.360
<v Speaker 1>that's just gambling and that's probably not good. But if

694
00:38:35.400 --> 00:38:41.119
<v Speaker 1>people are, you know, moving money from like entertainment, right, like, oh,

695
00:38:41.159 --> 00:38:43.039
<v Speaker 1>you know I was gonna spend thirty bucks on a

696
00:38:43.079 --> 00:38:45.880
<v Speaker 1>movie tonight. You know, well, maybe I'll just trade mean

697
00:38:45.920 --> 00:38:53.159
<v Speaker 1>coins instead, Like that's probably more innocuous. So I don't

698
00:38:53.400 --> 00:38:55.920
<v Speaker 1>you know, I don't anticipate people's behavior is changing. I

699
00:38:55.920 --> 00:39:01.960
<v Speaker 1>think some of it's uh, definitely not good behavior, and

700
00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:05.119
<v Speaker 1>there needs to be some moderation in terms of content

701
00:39:05.159 --> 00:39:08.360
<v Speaker 1>and what people are able to do. But you know,

702
00:39:08.440 --> 00:39:09.920
<v Speaker 1>you just kind of have to adapt, right. It's like

703
00:39:09.960 --> 00:39:12.960
<v Speaker 1>when the internet got going, I think it was hard

704
00:39:12.960 --> 00:39:15.519
<v Speaker 1>to foresee all the things that it would change, and

705
00:39:16.400 --> 00:39:19.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, they sort of twenty four to seven terminally

706
00:39:19.480 --> 00:39:23.719
<v Speaker 1>online ability to communicate with large groups of people is

707
00:39:23.760 --> 00:39:26.360
<v Speaker 1>also changing how people invest, spend their money, spend their

708
00:39:26.360 --> 00:39:31.159
<v Speaker 1>time too, right, So you know, I think a lot

709
00:39:31.199 --> 00:39:33.599
<v Speaker 1>of the younger generation will continue to invest time and

710
00:39:33.760 --> 00:39:37.519
<v Speaker 1>energy and crypto, but I think hopefully they you know,

711
00:39:37.639 --> 00:39:40.039
<v Speaker 1>spend time on fixed income and equity products as well.

712
00:39:40.679 --> 00:39:42.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, for sure. You know, as we were talking about

713
00:39:42.840 --> 00:39:44.519
<v Speaker 2>some of the behavior things, I was thinking about the

714
00:39:44.519 --> 00:39:46.679
<v Speaker 2>pump dot fund and madness that's happening. I don't know

715
00:39:46.719 --> 00:39:50.039
<v Speaker 2>if you've said, like that stuff is scary, it's crazy.

716
00:39:50.679 --> 00:39:53.239
<v Speaker 1>Let's mark the day today is November twenty fifth. Like,

717
00:39:53.280 --> 00:39:55.480
<v Speaker 1>the stuff that's going on on with pumped out fund

718
00:39:55.519 --> 00:39:57.719
<v Speaker 1>right now is like a little bit too much that

719
00:39:57.760 --> 00:40:02.239
<v Speaker 1>probably needs like well, it certainly content moderation, like absolutely,

720
00:40:02.239 --> 00:40:04.480
<v Speaker 1>that is like the stuff that is not not acceptable.

721
00:40:04.960 --> 00:40:08.360
<v Speaker 2>But the idea though, the infrastructure and the concept, right,

722
00:40:09.159 --> 00:40:12.599
<v Speaker 2>that could be applied in many great ways. For example, you,

723
00:40:12.679 --> 00:40:15.519
<v Speaker 2>as an entrepreneur a company, right, if done in the

724
00:40:15.599 --> 00:40:18.960
<v Speaker 2>proper format and the proper regulations are in place, I

725
00:40:19.000 --> 00:40:21.239
<v Speaker 2>can bet on you. I can bet an Agora from

726
00:40:21.360 --> 00:40:25.400
<v Speaker 2>day one. You know, if Elon was to tokenize himself,

727
00:40:25.400 --> 00:40:28.159
<v Speaker 2>would I invest in him? Hell yeah, because the guy's

728
00:40:28.159 --> 00:40:31.000
<v Speaker 2>incredible And I don't agree with everything, but he's incredible

729
00:40:31.039 --> 00:40:34.960
<v Speaker 2>as an entrepreneur. Same thing, Tom Brady, if he was

730
00:40:34.960 --> 00:40:40.360
<v Speaker 2>still playing tokeniz, Yeah, would I invest in dog number

731
00:40:40.400 --> 00:40:43.840
<v Speaker 2>five mein Cointa just started last night. No, but the

732
00:40:43.920 --> 00:40:47.400
<v Speaker 2>idea is it just depends on what it is as

733
00:40:47.440 --> 00:40:48.199
<v Speaker 2>being tokenized.

734
00:40:49.400 --> 00:40:56.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I think some of it, if it was done properly,

735
00:40:56.880 --> 00:41:01.159
<v Speaker 1>could be worthwhile. Though you know, I don't know if

736
00:41:01.199 --> 00:41:04.719
<v Speaker 1>I want everything to be financialized right, like hyper financialization

737
00:41:04.840 --> 00:41:07.760
<v Speaker 1>is probably not a great thing for society.

738
00:41:08.400 --> 00:41:12.280
<v Speaker 2>Mm. Yeah. But the part of the problem is until

739
00:41:12.320 --> 00:41:15.960
<v Speaker 2>they fixes, people are dealing with financial hardship, inflation and

740
00:41:15.960 --> 00:41:19.360
<v Speaker 2>so forth. I think macro investor Ralph Paller I heard

741
00:41:19.440 --> 00:41:21.599
<v Speaker 2>him say about it, this is kind of an avenue

742
00:41:21.639 --> 00:41:23.760
<v Speaker 2>ac oh, I can bet on this and make a

743
00:41:23.760 --> 00:41:26.320
<v Speaker 2>bunch of money. Why not. I got nothing to lose.

744
00:41:27.039 --> 00:41:29.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm not getting the same returns and other things. So

745
00:41:30.519 --> 00:41:33.079
<v Speaker 2>once again that what they're betting on could be wrong.

746
00:41:33.239 --> 00:41:35.760
<v Speaker 2>But I think that the root of all this is

747
00:41:35.840 --> 00:41:37.519
<v Speaker 2>people are trying to find a way out, and that

748
00:41:37.599 --> 00:41:40.360
<v Speaker 2>goes back to the debasement of currency, the money printing

749
00:41:40.360 --> 00:41:41.480
<v Speaker 2>and all these things that's happening.

750
00:41:41.920 --> 00:41:45.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, I think some of the better things to

751
00:41:45.199 --> 00:41:47.519
<v Speaker 1>do is probably just use stables in like ave or

752
00:41:47.519 --> 00:41:51.880
<v Speaker 1>morpho or something to protect yourself against that. But yes,

753
00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:54.559
<v Speaker 1>you know, I think some of this has been valuable

754
00:41:54.599 --> 00:41:56.320
<v Speaker 1>to folks for sure.

755
00:41:56.679 --> 00:41:59.000
<v Speaker 2>All Right, Nick, got some wrap up questions here for you. First,

756
00:41:59.039 --> 00:42:01.079
<v Speaker 2>if you create your own averse, what would theme be?

757
00:42:02.360 --> 00:42:03.760
<v Speaker 1>I al cream my own metaverse.

758
00:42:06.559 --> 00:42:08.800
<v Speaker 2>Where'd you put your Oculus or Apple?

759
00:42:09.079 --> 00:42:17.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Yeah, I think probably going back into classical Greece.

760
00:42:17.119 --> 00:42:19.079
<v Speaker 1>And it's not just because I saw a Gladiator, which

761
00:42:19.079 --> 00:42:20.880
<v Speaker 1>I knows, you know, based on the Roman Empire this

762
00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:24.800
<v Speaker 1>weekend Gladiator too, But I studied classical history and major

763
00:42:24.840 --> 00:42:27.400
<v Speaker 1>did it in college. I've just been always fascinated by it.

764
00:42:28.840 --> 00:42:30.880
<v Speaker 1>And yeah, I think like being able to like time

765
00:42:30.920 --> 00:42:34.559
<v Speaker 1>travel back into that era. It would be really really interesting.

766
00:42:34.559 --> 00:42:36.519
<v Speaker 1>There's a lot of other different time periods I would

767
00:42:36.519 --> 00:42:37.840
<v Speaker 1>like to go back to as well, to be like

768
00:42:37.840 --> 00:42:40.039
<v Speaker 1>a fly on the wall, But that's probably number one.

769
00:42:40.679 --> 00:42:43.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I would love that too. I'm being on history,

770
00:42:43.239 --> 00:42:46.000
<v Speaker 2>so being able to go back to Rome or ancient Greece,

771
00:42:46.039 --> 00:42:49.039
<v Speaker 2>whatever it is, it would be amazing. Rapid fire questions.

772
00:42:49.079 --> 00:42:53.239
<v Speaker 1>Favorite food, favorite food sushi.

773
00:42:53.480 --> 00:42:54.880
<v Speaker 2>Favorite musician or band.

774
00:42:57.679 --> 00:43:06.360
<v Speaker 1>Ciesto, favorite movie movie. Ah, this is a tough one. Yeah,

775
00:43:06.840 --> 00:43:09.880
<v Speaker 1>I'll say Gladiator the first one. That may just because

776
00:43:09.880 --> 00:43:11.880
<v Speaker 1>I saw Gladiator too this weekend.

777
00:43:12.480 --> 00:43:14.519
<v Speaker 2>But the first one's great, Like I watch it all

778
00:43:14.519 --> 00:43:16.440
<v Speaker 2>the time. My wife like, if it's on TV, my

779
00:43:16.480 --> 00:43:18.119
<v Speaker 2>mind's like my wife is like, haven't you seen this

780
00:43:18.159 --> 00:43:18.880
<v Speaker 2>a million times?

781
00:43:18.880 --> 00:43:25.920
<v Speaker 1>Like it's really good. Favorite book, favorite book. My favorite

782
00:43:26.320 --> 00:43:29.840
<v Speaker 1>fiction book is Aragon, So I love that series. When

783
00:43:29.840 --> 00:43:31.599
<v Speaker 1>I was growing up, that was like incredible. And I

784
00:43:31.599 --> 00:43:33.960
<v Speaker 1>think they're I heard they're redoing the show. The movie

785
00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:35.639
<v Speaker 1>was not great, but I hear they're redoing the show,

786
00:43:35.679 --> 00:43:39.119
<v Speaker 1>and so I have high hopes that'll be much better

787
00:43:39.159 --> 00:43:39.679
<v Speaker 1>than the movie.

788
00:43:40.719 --> 00:43:42.559
<v Speaker 2>And when you're not working at Ogoria, what are you

789
00:43:42.599 --> 00:43:43.159
<v Speaker 2>doing for fun?

790
00:43:43.559 --> 00:43:45.519
<v Speaker 1>Probably just spending time with family and friends.

791
00:43:45.920 --> 00:43:49.239
<v Speaker 2>Mm hmm, Nick, absolute pleasure. I love what you guys

792
00:43:49.280 --> 00:43:51.199
<v Speaker 2>are doing with a USD, and I would love to

793
00:43:51.239 --> 00:43:53.079
<v Speaker 2>have you back on as things progress. But thank you

794
00:43:53.119 --> 00:43:53.920
<v Speaker 2>so much for joining me.

795
00:43:54.199 --> 00:43:55.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, thanks, Tony

796
00:44:00.840 --> 00:44:09.079
<v Speaker 2>Bask b stok, psk pst pskot