WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.280 --> 00:00:06.240 A Cast Classics. The Witness follows Joseph O'Callahan, who provided 2 00:00:06.320 --> 00:00:10.000 testimony that helped convict two drug dealing gangsters for murder, 3 00:00:10.359 --> 00:00:13.320 making him the youngest person to ever enter the Witness 4 00:00:13.320 --> 00:00:17.559 Protection program in Ireland. Now he tells his extraordinary life 5 00:00:17.559 --> 00:00:18.960 story for the first time. 6 00:00:19.120 --> 00:00:21.000 Tell him to stand up now and get in the 7 00:00:21.079 --> 00:00:23.800 witness box and give evidence as I didn't do it, 8 00:00:23.839 --> 00:00:25.320 so that's why I'm standing here. 9 00:00:25.600 --> 00:00:27.920 Find out more about The Witness and other A cast 10 00:00:27.920 --> 00:00:30.960 classics at acast dot com. Forward Slash Classics. 11 00:00:35.119 --> 00:00:38.079 Warning, Where Did the Road Go? May cause the edges 12 00:00:38.119 --> 00:00:42.039 of reality to become fuzzy. This month's Where Did the 13 00:00:42.119 --> 00:00:47.399 Road Go? Is sponsored by the following awesome individuals, Greg Ross, 14 00:00:47.560 --> 00:00:52.320 Allison Cook, Super Inframan, thirty six Dingo, Yvonne Williams and 15 00:00:52.520 --> 00:00:55.679 Michael Frisque. Thank you so much for helping make this 16 00:00:55.759 --> 00:00:56.560 show possible. 17 00:00:57.200 --> 00:01:02.119 Transmissions Dive Welcome to Where Did the Road Go? Join 18 00:01:02.240 --> 00:01:04.480 us as we wander off the path and explore a 19 00:01:04.599 --> 00:01:12.840 lost history, consciousness, the paranormal, unexplained, mysteries, alternative thought, and 20 00:01:13.159 --> 00:01:16.439 much more. We are present on the web at Where 21 00:01:16.560 --> 00:01:19.760 Did the Road Go dot com. Now Here is your 22 00:01:19.799 --> 00:01:33.640 host Soriah. 23 00:01:33.799 --> 00:01:36.079 Welcome to this edition of Where Did the Road Go? 24 00:01:36.920 --> 00:01:39.879 And Uh, tonight, I have a stranger emerging from the 25 00:01:39.920 --> 00:01:43.439 midst missed, not mist missed. 26 00:01:43.680 --> 00:01:44.680 A familiar stranger. 27 00:01:44.719 --> 00:01:47.079 It is it is, it seems to me Timothy Renner. 28 00:01:47.400 --> 00:01:48.519 I'm happy to be back. 29 00:01:49.239 --> 00:01:52.439 And oh, what's this? He's He's handed me a new book. Yes, 30 00:01:52.799 --> 00:01:58.400 the Keystone Hagstone. Is it weird to have Keystone Hagstone 31 00:01:58.719 --> 00:02:05.200 together like songy fairies and other mysterious entities of Pennsylvania, 32 00:02:05.680 --> 00:02:07.719 which is not a place you normally think of this 33 00:02:07.760 --> 00:02:08.400 stuff from. 34 00:02:08.479 --> 00:02:10.719 Yeah. Yeah, I mean I was surprised. It's three hundred 35 00:02:10.719 --> 00:02:13.400 and fifty six pages. I did not think it was 36 00:02:13.439 --> 00:02:15.240 gonna be that. I did not think there's gonna be 37 00:02:15.280 --> 00:02:16.439 a cutch in size volume. 38 00:02:18.840 --> 00:02:22.599 And I believe and I believe Josh said that his 39 00:02:22.639 --> 00:02:24.199 new book's a little shorter than normal. 40 00:02:24.759 --> 00:02:26.840 So you guys might not singing the night. 41 00:02:27.080 --> 00:02:28.960 Yeah, you kind of even to each other out. 42 00:02:31.080 --> 00:02:33.080 Well, Josh is partly responsible for this. 43 00:02:33.039 --> 00:02:36.759 Book, yes, yeah, the the proving Josh wrong thing. 44 00:02:37.240 --> 00:02:39.599 Yeah. Wait, look I want to be clear about it. 45 00:02:39.639 --> 00:02:43.360 I love Josh to death. Yeah, but yeah, he just 46 00:02:43.400 --> 00:02:46.919 triggered a research kind of bone in me, you know, 47 00:02:46.960 --> 00:02:48.919 And I was like, no, I need to research. 48 00:02:48.639 --> 00:02:50.479 That, and what did he say? 49 00:02:50.639 --> 00:02:53.960 So I think I've told the story on here where 50 00:02:54.000 --> 00:02:56.599 I was. I was doing some gifting in hex Hollow 51 00:02:56.719 --> 00:02:58.719 and I had less some alcohol and I said I 52 00:02:58.759 --> 00:03:00.719 would like a skull. And I'm and I found this 53 00:03:00.919 --> 00:03:03.759 little stand of trees that I'd never been in before. 54 00:03:03.800 --> 00:03:05.960 It's like ten minutes later, and I walked into this 55 00:03:06.039 --> 00:03:08.759 stand of trees and there's a big stone mound in 56 00:03:08.800 --> 00:03:11.560 this in this basically a circle of trees, and I'm 57 00:03:11.599 --> 00:03:14.039 walking up this mound and I start seeing little bits 58 00:03:14.080 --> 00:03:18.240 of hair and then I see a freshly decapitated groundhog head. 59 00:03:18.719 --> 00:03:20.520 So I had asked for a skull. I got a skull. 60 00:03:20.520 --> 00:03:22.560 It was covered in gore, which I'm not a big 61 00:03:22.599 --> 00:03:25.199 fan of gore. Right like that, Yeah, didn't take it 62 00:03:25.280 --> 00:03:27.560 led to a bunch of problems because I broke the rules, 63 00:03:27.919 --> 00:03:30.159 including according to folk, where I believe it led to 64 00:03:30.199 --> 00:03:32.319 a serious problem. In any case, When I got home 65 00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:34.560 that day, I happened to call Josh and I'm telling 66 00:03:34.599 --> 00:03:36.280 him the story. And I said, Josh, if this was 67 00:03:36.280 --> 00:03:38.280 in Ireland, this would have been a fairy force and 68 00:03:38.319 --> 00:03:40.639 He's very sternly said to me, Tim, there are no 69 00:03:40.719 --> 00:03:45.280 fairry forts in Pennsylvania and something about that, just like, 70 00:03:45.400 --> 00:03:48.159 I mean, he's the experts. I kind of went, oh, okay, 71 00:03:48.759 --> 00:03:50.479 But then I was like, I wonder if there are, 72 00:03:50.680 --> 00:03:53.840 and I started researching. Right then, I started researching, and 73 00:03:53.879 --> 00:03:55.919 it took me a long time, but I finally found 74 00:03:55.960 --> 00:03:58.639 an article where it explicitly says, we have our fairy 75 00:03:58.680 --> 00:04:00.840 forts and our fairy raths here in Pennsylvania. 76 00:04:00.960 --> 00:04:03.400 Huh, And what do you think it's just Pennsylvania. Do 77 00:04:03.439 --> 00:04:05.439 you think this is just like everywhere? 78 00:04:05.560 --> 00:04:09.080 Well, this was a particularly Irish town, right where a 79 00:04:09.120 --> 00:04:11.879 lot of Irish egrants came and settled. And I think 80 00:04:11.919 --> 00:04:14.560 people bring their folklore with them. So I think if 81 00:04:14.599 --> 00:04:17.560 you had a tight concentration of Irish folks in another 82 00:04:17.600 --> 00:04:20.639 town in some other state, likely they might have fairy 83 00:04:20.680 --> 00:04:22.439 fords around there too, or things. They call it fairy 84 00:04:22.439 --> 00:04:23.160 forth and. 85 00:04:23.319 --> 00:04:25.759 Explain that phrase. They bring their folklore with them. 86 00:04:25.959 --> 00:04:30.360 Yeah. So, and this isn't an entirely original concept. I mean, 87 00:04:30.360 --> 00:04:33.360 people have been talking about this folkloret for hundreds of years. 88 00:04:33.360 --> 00:04:36.399 But when people come, when they move in this case, 89 00:04:36.399 --> 00:04:39.079 in the case of this book, you know, the Europeans 90 00:04:39.199 --> 00:04:42.600 came to Pennsylvania and they start seeing weird things and 91 00:04:42.639 --> 00:04:45.040 they give them. They say, you know, it's a leprechaun. 92 00:04:45.279 --> 00:04:47.720 And I think some people say, I'm using lepriquon as 93 00:04:47.759 --> 00:04:50.399 an example, and some people think, well, they can't see 94 00:04:50.480 --> 00:04:53.480 leprechaun because lepricuns are in Ireland. And I think that's 95 00:04:53.519 --> 00:04:57.399 a very materialistic, natural world sort of way to think 96 00:04:57.399 --> 00:04:59.680 of it, right, because you know, in Ireland they have 97 00:04:59.720 --> 00:05:01.560 what the red deer, and we have white tailed deer 98 00:05:01.600 --> 00:05:03.839 here and you know, so you know there are different species. 99 00:05:03.839 --> 00:05:07.160 Well the other, as you know, isn't like that and 100 00:05:07.519 --> 00:05:12.720 doesn't really obey borders, country, town or otherwise. So in 101 00:05:12.759 --> 00:05:14.879 the introduction I talk about this. I think it's it's 102 00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:16.759 natural kind of for people to say, well, maybe we 103 00:05:16.759 --> 00:05:18.959 should use the Native American names for these, and in 104 00:05:19.000 --> 00:05:21.319 some cases we do. But I think it's perfectly natural 105 00:05:21.319 --> 00:05:23.360 for an Irish person to see a little thing running 106 00:05:23.360 --> 00:05:26.600 around and call it a leprechaun, because that's their cultural history. 107 00:05:27.199 --> 00:05:30.000 And in fact they're describing it as leprechauns look as 108 00:05:30.040 --> 00:05:32.160 you know, dressed as leprechauns dressed, you know, with the 109 00:05:32.199 --> 00:05:35.879 little hats and the little suits and stuff that they wore. 110 00:05:36.279 --> 00:05:38.560 So we get into, you know, the question we often 111 00:05:38.600 --> 00:05:40.680 get into once shows like Yours in Mind is like, 112 00:05:40.839 --> 00:05:43.240 would it look like a leprechaun if a Native American 113 00:05:43.279 --> 00:05:45.000 will stand there next to them, it's all the same thing, 114 00:05:45.240 --> 00:05:47.439 or with the Native Americans seed something completely different. I 115 00:05:47.480 --> 00:05:50.079 don't know, but it seems like people bring their folklore 116 00:05:50.160 --> 00:05:53.879 with them. So these German immigrants they're seeing you know, albatwitch, 117 00:05:53.959 --> 00:05:58.160 they're seeing you know, the dragons and cobalds, and the 118 00:05:58.199 --> 00:06:00.480 people from Whales are talking about Tommy Knight in the 119 00:06:00.519 --> 00:06:03.680 mines and et cetera, et cetera. So you know, the 120 00:06:03.720 --> 00:06:06.199 folk whor travels with people, and I don't think you 121 00:06:06.199 --> 00:06:06.759 can avoid that. 122 00:06:07.519 --> 00:06:10.879 So this is something that Danielle brought up on last 123 00:06:10.879 --> 00:06:13.680 week's show. It's kind of interesting and I knew this, 124 00:06:13.759 --> 00:06:17.199 but it never really clicked. The Appalachian Mountains and modern 125 00:06:17.240 --> 00:06:19.759 Ireland were once part of the same structure. 126 00:06:19.879 --> 00:06:22.680 Yeah. I think there's even an appalation trail in Scotland. 127 00:06:22.879 --> 00:06:26.720 Really yeah, Okay, So I mean it's kind of like, okay, 128 00:06:26.759 --> 00:06:29.399 so if this stuff is tied to the land somehow, 129 00:06:29.600 --> 00:06:32.000 did it just evolve differently, and Ireland in. 130 00:06:32.079 --> 00:06:34.920 Here, I mean it could have I think that falls 131 00:06:34.920 --> 00:06:37.000 into a trap of thinking of it like animals. And 132 00:06:37.040 --> 00:06:39.920 I really think this is tied to people in some way. 133 00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:42.560 Yeah, I'm sure it is. It's just a fun thing 134 00:06:42.600 --> 00:06:43.120 to play with. 135 00:06:43.519 --> 00:06:46.560 Yeah, I mean, and certainly people tend to move to 136 00:06:46.680 --> 00:06:51.199 places that look like home. You know, the platin it 137 00:06:51.279 --> 00:06:53.680 is where most of the Pennsylvania Germans, the Pennsylvania Dutch 138 00:06:53.759 --> 00:06:56.160 came from. And there's in your county here, there's literally 139 00:06:56.240 --> 00:06:59.199 a place we call the Cador's Palatinate because yeah, they 140 00:06:59.439 --> 00:07:01.600 to it looks much like the platinum you know in 141 00:07:01.639 --> 00:07:03.279 Germany where all these people came from. 142 00:07:03.560 --> 00:07:05.759 And yeah, so when you were saying, you know, when 143 00:07:05.879 --> 00:07:09.439 if someone from a Native American tribes standing ne someone 144 00:07:09.439 --> 00:07:11.480 from Ireland, are they going to see the same creature? 145 00:07:11.519 --> 00:07:14.600 That's that's I don't know what they would see if 146 00:07:14.600 --> 00:07:17.199 they were standing next to each other, like separately. I 147 00:07:17.240 --> 00:07:20.040 think they would see different things, But would it have 148 00:07:20.160 --> 00:07:23.120 to reach some kind of consensus if they were together. 149 00:07:23.319 --> 00:07:25.879 I mean, people do describe things differently when they when 150 00:07:25.920 --> 00:07:28.600 they have encounters sometimes, Yeah, I mean, and we. 151 00:07:28.680 --> 00:07:31.319 Go back to my favorite Bigfoot encounter of Gage who 152 00:07:31.360 --> 00:07:34.199 was on Strange Familiars, who saw the white creature, and 153 00:07:34.240 --> 00:07:36.199 then his friend saw the black creature, and the third 154 00:07:36.199 --> 00:07:38.319 friends saw nothing at all, which I think is probably 155 00:07:38.360 --> 00:07:39.360 the perfect bigfoot sit. 156 00:07:39.879 --> 00:07:44.079 Yeah. Yeah, but in that case, though they're both bigfoot, 157 00:07:44.160 --> 00:07:45.399 it was just a color that was. 158 00:07:45.360 --> 00:07:48.279 Different, true, true. And I have a sighting with John 159 00:07:48.319 --> 00:07:50.639 at Site seven where we both saw it light it 160 00:07:50.680 --> 00:07:51.879 was the size was different. 161 00:07:52.040 --> 00:07:54.879 Yeah. Yeah. And to me that's always like is it 162 00:07:54.959 --> 00:07:58.600 partially the brain interpreting and is it is it also 163 00:07:58.720 --> 00:07:59.720 like extra information? 164 00:08:00.120 --> 00:08:00.279 Right? 165 00:08:00.399 --> 00:08:01.959 I mean with the thing that John and I saw, 166 00:08:01.959 --> 00:08:04.000 I even wondered is it the angle because I was 167 00:08:04.120 --> 00:08:06.319 like to the side to him or something. Is it 168 00:08:06.399 --> 00:08:08.800 literally just the angle I'm looking at it? It is 169 00:08:08.920 --> 00:08:10.000 enough to change it? I don't know. 170 00:08:10.199 --> 00:08:12.160 And we've talked about how Jeff Ritzman had a few 171 00:08:12.160 --> 00:08:15.240 experiences where you know, like he literally saw uf over 172 00:08:15.279 --> 00:08:17.600 a park and his wife was standing right next up 173 00:08:17.639 --> 00:08:19.279 and didn't see it, and he pulled her to where 174 00:08:19.279 --> 00:08:20.959 he was standing and she's like, oh my god, there 175 00:08:20.959 --> 00:08:21.279 it is. 176 00:08:21.600 --> 00:08:25.560 Yeah. Well, there's an old sort of folkloric device in 177 00:08:25.639 --> 00:08:29.199 Ireland where if one person can see something and another can't. 178 00:08:29.399 --> 00:08:31.879 You know. It's like usually regarding the fae, you're supposed 179 00:08:31.879 --> 00:08:34.120 to the person who can't see it is supposed to 180 00:08:34.200 --> 00:08:37.399 stand next to the person slightly behind them who can 181 00:08:37.480 --> 00:08:40.120 see it, put their hand on their shoulder, put their 182 00:08:40.279 --> 00:08:42.440 wrapped their leg around and kind of put it in 183 00:08:42.519 --> 00:08:45.399 between their two legs, and then they're supposed to be 184 00:08:45.480 --> 00:08:45.960 able to see. 185 00:08:46.039 --> 00:08:50.440 Hmm. That's interesting. Yeah, yeah, because is that position or 186 00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:51.600 is that sharing energy? 187 00:08:51.759 --> 00:08:54.440 Right? Because they're touching as you know, like some people 188 00:08:54.440 --> 00:08:56.519 have said, yeah, just put your hand on their shoulder 189 00:08:56.519 --> 00:08:58.919 and looked though. Yeah, I don't know, all right. It's 190 00:08:58.919 --> 00:09:00.759 something I definitely am going to try in the future though, 191 00:09:00.759 --> 00:09:02.759 because there's been times where you know, I've been out 192 00:09:02.759 --> 00:09:04.679 with chat or whoever and like, oh I see something 193 00:09:04.720 --> 00:09:06.399 and I don't or vice versa. 194 00:09:06.559 --> 00:09:09.240 Yeah, yeah, all right, Tim, So tell us what the 195 00:09:09.240 --> 00:09:11.960 other is. I know, after reading this book you have 196 00:09:12.120 --> 00:09:13.120 pretty much solved this. 197 00:09:15.879 --> 00:09:17.559 Yeah, well, you know, we solve this all the time 198 00:09:17.559 --> 00:09:18.240 when you're. 199 00:09:18.120 --> 00:09:20.919 So in mine every week. 200 00:09:21.519 --> 00:09:24.960 Just a blanket word for these variety of things that 201 00:09:25.279 --> 00:09:27.399 we talk about so often that I have come to 202 00:09:27.399 --> 00:09:30.360 believe are all connected somehow how, I don't know. I 203 00:09:30.399 --> 00:09:32.200 don't know if they're all the same thing or if 204 00:09:32.200 --> 00:09:36.320 they're just connected. They certainly all act the same or similarly, 205 00:09:36.679 --> 00:09:39.320 So it's just a blanket name. So I'll just call 206 00:09:39.360 --> 00:09:41.840 it all the other and then sort it out later. 207 00:09:42.840 --> 00:09:45.399 Do you think they act the same though, because I mean, 208 00:09:45.919 --> 00:09:48.720 some of these things come across as malicious, others don't. 209 00:09:49.159 --> 00:09:52.120 Yeah, they act in as much as it's as like 210 00:09:52.120 --> 00:09:54.600 Brother Richard says that they're coming through in the same channels. Like, 211 00:09:54.639 --> 00:09:57.679 for instance, there's always smell. There's smells with Mari and apparitions. 212 00:09:57.679 --> 00:09:59.639 There smells with Bigfoot. On's a bad smell, wants a 213 00:09:59.639 --> 00:10:02.519 good stuff, you know what I mean. Yeah, it's they're 214 00:10:02.600 --> 00:10:05.120 very similar in that, you know a lot of these 215 00:10:05.120 --> 00:10:07.960 things climb up on roofs. You know that there's just acting. 216 00:10:08.120 --> 00:10:10.279 This is a weird detail. It's a very strange detail. 217 00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:13.279 But you know you find it again again with Bigfoot 218 00:10:13.360 --> 00:10:15.720 and with some of these other trolls and things from 219 00:10:15.759 --> 00:10:18.320 from the old world that you know, they'll just note 220 00:10:18.320 --> 00:10:20.320 that it will climb up on your roof. Okay, that's 221 00:10:20.360 --> 00:10:21.600 a very strange detail. 222 00:10:23.600 --> 00:10:26.200 And Brother Richard writes the introduction to. 223 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:28.519 This Indeed, he doesn't I keep forgetting to mention that, 224 00:10:28.639 --> 00:10:30.559 so thank you for bringing it up. Yes, he wrote 225 00:10:30.679 --> 00:10:32.000 an awesome introduction. 226 00:10:31.759 --> 00:10:32.279 Yes he did. 227 00:10:32.679 --> 00:10:33.440 Or forward brother? 228 00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:38.320 Yeah right right, So, so as you break this down, 229 00:10:38.360 --> 00:10:41.120 so you're looking for the fae in Pennsylvania, what do 230 00:10:41.159 --> 00:10:43.600 you define his faye? And what don't you define his faye? 231 00:10:43.759 --> 00:10:45.720 That's the key, that's the hard part. 232 00:10:45.840 --> 00:10:46.200 Yeah. 233 00:10:46.240 --> 00:10:49.120 So you know fairies and lebricauns and banjies, that's easy, right, 234 00:10:49.559 --> 00:10:52.480 So what else? And I sort of expanded it to 235 00:10:52.799 --> 00:10:55.039 it's it's more of what I didn't include, right, So 236 00:10:55.320 --> 00:10:58.840 I didn't include single ghosts that that seem to be 237 00:10:58.960 --> 00:11:01.360 sort of your normal GHOT story. And I even say 238 00:11:01.360 --> 00:11:03.000 in there, at some point I might write a book 239 00:11:03.039 --> 00:11:05.200 that challenges the idea that ghosts or the souls of 240 00:11:05.240 --> 00:11:08.600 dead people good and ghosts are tied. Did the fae anyway? 241 00:11:08.639 --> 00:11:10.080 So I really could have, But you know there's a 242 00:11:10.120 --> 00:11:12.600 million ghost stories. I had to draw a line somewhere, right, 243 00:11:12.720 --> 00:11:14.840 So I don't have bigfoot because I've already talked about 244 00:11:14.840 --> 00:11:17.559 bigfoot in Pennsylvania. I didn't do wear wolves because I 245 00:11:17.759 --> 00:11:20.120 have a book coming on were wolves in Pennsylvania. 246 00:11:20.279 --> 00:11:21.320 Is it just were wolves? 247 00:11:21.639 --> 00:11:24.440 Were wolves? Spook wolves, which is a ghost of a 248 00:11:24.480 --> 00:11:26.279 wolf or a ghost of a were wolf. We have 249 00:11:26.279 --> 00:11:29.840 those in Pennsylvania and sort of related things. Okay, And 250 00:11:29.879 --> 00:11:32.600 I didn't do like sort of alien ufo stuff just 251 00:11:32.600 --> 00:11:35.360 because you know, again, there's so much of it. You know, 252 00:11:35.679 --> 00:11:38.759 the book's big enough. Otherwise it's you know, I kind 253 00:11:38.759 --> 00:11:42.279 of used the rule of the old rule regarding pornography, like, 254 00:11:42.320 --> 00:11:47.120 I know when I see it there are groups of ghosts, 255 00:11:47.159 --> 00:11:49.639 like like armies of ghosts and gatherings of ghosts in there, 256 00:11:49.679 --> 00:11:52.440 because that feels like, you know, when people go out 257 00:11:52.440 --> 00:11:54.679 and they see a troop of fairies, often they'll say like, yeah, 258 00:11:54.720 --> 00:11:56.559 there was a troop of fairies and my dead relatives 259 00:11:56.559 --> 00:11:58.879 were with them, you know, so it kind of felt 260 00:11:58.879 --> 00:12:00.799 like that. So I have group of ghosts in there, 261 00:12:00.840 --> 00:12:02.679 but no like single ghost kind of thing. 262 00:12:02.919 --> 00:12:05.879 Okay, well let's get let's let's get into some of 263 00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:10.480 the substance here. One of the I mean, you get 264 00:12:10.519 --> 00:12:13.519 into one of my favorite subjects pretty early on, which 265 00:12:13.559 --> 00:12:17.559 is lights. Yeah, and Barb Barbara Fish is working on 266 00:12:17.600 --> 00:12:18.519 a whole book of lights. 267 00:12:19.120 --> 00:12:23.399 Yeah. I don't envy. They're difficult to write about it, really, 268 00:12:23.440 --> 00:12:25.720 I mean they are. I wrote the lights chapter in 269 00:12:25.960 --> 00:12:28.639 the Prince end, and it's you know, what do you say? 270 00:12:28.679 --> 00:12:30.679 They're everywhere with regards of stuff, you know. 271 00:12:30.720 --> 00:12:33.600 Yeah, it seems like they may be the core, basic 272 00:12:33.679 --> 00:12:35.240 emanation of the stuff. 273 00:12:34.919 --> 00:12:37.559 I've you know, I think I've stolen that idea from you, 274 00:12:37.759 --> 00:12:40.480 and I've gone with it more and more lately myself. 275 00:12:40.519 --> 00:12:42.600 I feel like they're just it might just be the 276 00:12:43.000 --> 00:12:46.200 primal form of or the the basic form of all this. 277 00:12:46.159 --> 00:12:48.799 Stuff before it resolves into something. 278 00:12:48.600 --> 00:12:51.879 Else you or gets skinned with whatever we see it, 279 00:12:52.240 --> 00:12:52.440 you know. 280 00:12:52.559 --> 00:12:54.840 Yeah, And I mean that could also be plasma, you know, 281 00:12:54.960 --> 00:12:58.000 to some degree. Yeah, because I'm always fascinated by the 282 00:12:58.000 --> 00:12:59.200 willow wisps stories. 283 00:12:59.759 --> 00:13:01.720 Oh yeah, yeah, there's and there's a ton in here. 284 00:13:01.720 --> 00:13:04.279 There's a whole chapter in the back, but I couldn't resist. 285 00:13:04.279 --> 00:13:06.559 The first chapter is on this town called Archibald, which 286 00:13:06.600 --> 00:13:08.759 is that town full virus people I was speaking of, 287 00:13:08.919 --> 00:13:11.759 and which has a very very kind of deep traditional 288 00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:14.360 what they would call fairy faith. They talk about like 289 00:13:14.440 --> 00:13:18.200 there's a fairy midwife story where the the so fairies 290 00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:21.639 often see human midwives. It says that fairies. The legend 291 00:13:21.679 --> 00:13:24.480 is that fairies don't reproduce well, right, so they will 292 00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:27.080 come to a human midwife because we're so experienced at like, 293 00:13:27.320 --> 00:13:30.960 we're very good at this. So there's these fairy midwife 294 00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:33.080 stories all over Ireland where like the midwife will be 295 00:13:33.080 --> 00:13:35.600 taken and she'll say or do something and then something 296 00:13:35.639 --> 00:13:38.080 horrible happens. In this case, she gets taken to the 297 00:13:38.120 --> 00:13:40.919 fairies and she's, you know, helping deliver this baby from 298 00:13:40.960 --> 00:13:43.000 the faith and she goes, oh, this place is beautiful. 299 00:13:43.039 --> 00:13:45.600 I can't wait to tell everybody, and this old, like 300 00:13:45.679 --> 00:13:47.759 this crookedy old fairy woman says, oh, no, you won't, 301 00:13:47.840 --> 00:13:49.799 and she takes her cane and she pokes her eyes out, 302 00:13:49.960 --> 00:13:52.080 blinds her, you know. So that's a very kind of 303 00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:56.799 traditional fairy midwife story. There's stories of Leprakainns and banshees 304 00:13:56.799 --> 00:14:00.240 around the town of pukas the puka in this town. 305 00:14:00.279 --> 00:14:02.360 It's very interesting because this is in northern Pennsylvania where 306 00:14:02.399 --> 00:14:05.000 they would have had elk So the puka takes the 307 00:14:05.039 --> 00:14:06.960 form of a of a man with an elk head 308 00:14:06.960 --> 00:14:10.279 and elk corns, which is pretty neat variant one, you know, 309 00:14:10.440 --> 00:14:13.159 like sort of a Pennsylvania puka. As I say so, 310 00:14:13.399 --> 00:14:15.720 but this town has all this light lore. But then 311 00:14:15.720 --> 00:14:18.519 there's a second article that just talks about these ghostly 312 00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:21.200 lights they see in the town. So that's that's in 313 00:14:21.240 --> 00:14:23.080 the first chapter. And then at the end of the 314 00:14:23.120 --> 00:14:25.000 book there's a whole chapter on lights as well. 315 00:14:25.240 --> 00:14:27.039 Okay I did, I didn't get all the way to 316 00:14:27.080 --> 00:14:30.320 the end, so I didn't get the whole chapter on lights. Yeah, yeah, 317 00:14:30.559 --> 00:14:33.320 all right. They were saying, you just what was the 318 00:14:33.320 --> 00:14:35.240 thing you said right before the chapter. 319 00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:37.919 On lights about the town in arts Ball. 320 00:14:37.960 --> 00:14:41.440 Yeah, or the yeah, well there was something about was 321 00:14:41.480 --> 00:14:42.759 it a whole town full lights? 322 00:14:42.840 --> 00:14:45.000 Well they said they would see lights around this town, 323 00:14:45.159 --> 00:14:46.600 the same town that they're talking about, but they have 324 00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:49.519 all this fairy lore see these lights, you know, it's 325 00:14:49.519 --> 00:14:51.799 just the article says, have you ever heard of the 326 00:14:51.799 --> 00:14:54.279 moving lights of the Lachawana Valley. They present an interesting 327 00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:57.080 phase of a phenomenon which has exerted a strange influence 328 00:14:57.120 --> 00:14:59.320 over the minds of many persons in the mining hamlets 329 00:14:59.320 --> 00:15:02.519 of northeast eastern Pennsylvania, and particularly in and about the 330 00:15:02.559 --> 00:15:04.679 village of Archbald, which stands a little to the north 331 00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:07.399 and midway between Scranton and Carbondale. The mention of lights 332 00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:09.759 to any resident of Archbald is sufficient to convey the 333 00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:13.000 significant meaning which usually attaches in that neighborhood to the 334 00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:16.480 mysterious midnight glimmerings that are frequently seen hovering over the 335 00:15:16.519 --> 00:15:18.919 shallow river that runs through the town, drifting along the 336 00:15:18.919 --> 00:15:21.200 mountain side, or floating over the top of houses. 337 00:15:21.480 --> 00:15:24.600 And again that goes into that like earth light type 338 00:15:24.600 --> 00:15:25.519 of thing. Mm hmm. 339 00:15:25.919 --> 00:15:28.639 Yeah, and tons of mines around there too, So you 340 00:15:28.679 --> 00:15:31.039 get into the digging into the ground thing that I 341 00:15:31.080 --> 00:15:31.879 always talk about. 342 00:15:32.120 --> 00:15:34.840 Yeah, let's talk about that because that's interesting. 343 00:15:34.960 --> 00:15:36.960 Yeah, I mean, I probably that should probably be the 344 00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:40.960 next book I write, but it's not. I got another 345 00:15:40.960 --> 00:15:43.720 one in between there that I'm doing. But yeah, it's 346 00:15:44.159 --> 00:15:46.600 I call it buried treasure theory just as a shorthand, 347 00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:48.679 and it to kind of go back to all the 348 00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:51.960 stories of ghosts guarding buried treasures and so forth. I 349 00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:54.759 started asking, So one of the questions I ask if 350 00:15:54.759 --> 00:15:56.480 people call me out like they got a big foot 351 00:15:56.480 --> 00:15:59.080 sighting or something, and one of the questions I ask 352 00:15:59.240 --> 00:16:02.399 is where's what's buried around what's underground? And I will 353 00:16:02.440 --> 00:16:05.519 often get, oh, there's a story of like lost treasure 354 00:16:05.679 --> 00:16:08.279 or or a lost silver mine, somewhere around here, or 355 00:16:08.840 --> 00:16:12.080 there's a you know, a quarry right down the road. 356 00:16:12.519 --> 00:16:16.120 You know, there's there's very often there's something, you know, 357 00:16:16.279 --> 00:16:18.440 and even like I've even come to the point where 358 00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:20.639 I wonder if i mean, what are cemeteries but a 359 00:16:20.639 --> 00:16:23.600 bunch of holes? People, don't, you know? And and so 360 00:16:23.720 --> 00:16:26.360 much of the stuff is like disturbing the ground all 361 00:16:26.399 --> 00:16:28.559 the A lot of these stories take place around mines, 362 00:16:28.799 --> 00:16:31.360 you know, so many of the Bigfoot stories they say they, 363 00:16:31.399 --> 00:16:33.480 oh they ran into an old caver, into an old mine. 364 00:16:33.600 --> 00:16:35.480 You know, it's just it's over and over again. I 365 00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:38.279 feel like there's something about disturbing the ground. If you 366 00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:41.440 talk about Skinwalker Ranch, when they took over the first 367 00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:45.080 family took it over, they were worn, don't dig. Yeah, okay, 368 00:16:45.639 --> 00:16:49.159 you know it's something about disturbing the earth. I think 369 00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:51.200 that that may have, you know, something to do with 370 00:16:51.399 --> 00:16:53.039 what it is. I have to work that out or 371 00:16:53.159 --> 00:16:53.960 probably never will. 372 00:16:54.080 --> 00:16:56.320 But yeah, well that's the thing. What it is is 373 00:16:56.320 --> 00:16:59.879 what interests me, like, yeah, why would that matter? Like 374 00:17:00.039 --> 00:17:01.799 it would matter if something was living there and you 375 00:17:01.840 --> 00:17:03.679 were intruding on a tone. But that doesn't seem to 376 00:17:03.679 --> 00:17:03.960 be the. 377 00:17:03.919 --> 00:17:07.160 Case, right right. The stories of these these women in 378 00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:10.599 black things that are popping up all around scrant which 379 00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:13.319 is a whole chapter in the book around coal country 380 00:17:13.400 --> 00:17:16.000 up there. Some of these stories. You know, you could 381 00:17:16.039 --> 00:17:18.640 replace women in Black spirit with Bigfoot and it would 382 00:17:18.680 --> 00:17:20.839 you could pop it in my Pennsylvania big Foot books. 383 00:17:20.839 --> 00:17:23.240 Literally people are chasing after this thing. They run it 384 00:17:23.279 --> 00:17:25.079 into a mine and they go in with lanterns and 385 00:17:25.079 --> 00:17:27.480 there's nothing in there, right right, you know? Does that? 386 00:17:27.559 --> 00:17:29.559 I mean literally just replace it with Bigfoot. It's a 387 00:17:29.599 --> 00:17:30.519 one to one kind of thing. 388 00:17:30.599 --> 00:17:32.680 And initially when I started reading that chapter, I was 389 00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:35.680 thinking of like, are these kind of grim reaper type 390 00:17:35.680 --> 00:17:38.480 of things? But they're they're very distinctly feminine. 391 00:17:38.640 --> 00:17:42.119 Yes, yeah, So these started in the late eighteen hundreds. 392 00:17:42.119 --> 00:17:44.079 They actually start the earliest I can find. It actually 393 00:17:44.119 --> 00:17:46.079 starts in New York. There's a woman in black scene 394 00:17:46.119 --> 00:17:49.200 two times in York, and then it seems like it 395 00:17:49.279 --> 00:17:52.559 really pops up around the coal region and they're described variously. 396 00:17:52.599 --> 00:17:55.079 Sometimes they're described as kind of like just hooded, cloaked 397 00:17:55.119 --> 00:17:57.640 women in black, and sometimes they're described as like sort 398 00:17:57.640 --> 00:18:00.359 of wearing Victorian morning stuff like so bales and you know, 399 00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:03.480 fancier kind of black dresses, and some of the articles 400 00:18:03.640 --> 00:18:06.519 were definitely like so it's kind of like spring Hill Jack, right, 401 00:18:06.599 --> 00:18:08.559