Speaker 1: Happy Palm Sunday, everybody, the day we celebrate the kickoff
to Christianity's centerpiece event, a blood sacrifice. Strip away the
stained glass in the hymns, and what you're actually looking
at as in an omnipotent God who decided he couldn't
forgive humanity for breaking the rules he made up arbitrarily
unless something innocent bled and died first, which is the
same sympathetic magic every ancient culture practiced, just with better
production value. Hebrews nine twenty two says the quiet part
out loud. Without the shedding of blood, there is no
forgiveness of sins. That's not a plan of salvation. That's
a hostage negotiation where God is both the kidnapper and
the ransom. And the sacrifice didn't even work. Sin didn't stop,
suffering didn't stop, and most humans who ever lived are
still supposedly hell bound because they picked the wrong god
out of a lineup or were born in the wrong century.
And let's be honest about what Jesus actually sacrificed here
a bad weekend with a guaranteed resurrection to partially fix
a problem that he himself created using a mechanism borrowed
from the vitical goat slaughter rituals. So either God chose
to require blood when he could just have forgiven people,
making the crucifixion cosmic sadism, or he's bound by rules
he can't override and isn't actually omnipotent, or the whole
framework is ancient blood magic retrofitted onto first century theology,
which is the most parsimonious explanation by a mile. Take
your pick, and if you disagree with my interpretation of
this Holy Week, then call in because the show starts.
Speaker 2: Now, what's up?
Speaker 1: He then's how y'all doing this week? I am here
with Jim Burrows.
Speaker 2: What's up there? Jim? How you doing?
Speaker 3: I'm doing pretty good for a Rosie Palmer and her
five friends.
Speaker 4: Sunday. Oh yeah, that's just balm Sunday.
Speaker 1: Sorry, Okay, Today is March twenty ninths twenty twenty six.
I am the Godless Engineer and just letting you guys
know that to cover everything here at the beginning the
atheist experience as a product of the Atheist Community of Austin,
a five ZHO one C three nonprofit organization dedicated to
the promotion of atheism critical thinking, secular humanism and the
separation of religion and government. So we are try streaming tonight,
so big shout out to our viewers on TikTok and
on YouTube mobile. If you are watching us on TikTok
tonight and you'd like to talk to us, then request
to join and we'll bring you up on stage to
make sure, but to make sure that you are over
eighteen years of age before doing so. So with that said, Jim,
what do you got planned for this holiest of weeks?
Speaker 3: Well, I'm doing this show now and that I'm doing
Skeptic Cavan after and so other than that, that's about it.
I'm not planning on much of it. I mean, it's
just another week. I don't know what makes it holy.
It's not like we're missing on Wednesday and there's a
whole week, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, honestly, I find that the whole sacrificial
week of Jesus being like a big production number I
think is a little weird considering you know, you know
the fact that it's celebrating the sacrificing of one person
to cover for all the sins of everybody else, which
actually doesn't accomplish anything, you know, kind of like what
my intro was saying, it's not actually accomplishing anything. It's just,
you know, it's just basically God sacrificing himself in order
to make people feel guilty for something.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm really not even sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it doesn't even make any sense, right. Can
you imagine somebody on trial from murder, gets convicted, sent
to the death chair, and the person his father says,
oh no, no, let me go, let me take it
for my son. And I don't think anybody would think
that was justice. But because it involves some guy named
Jesus Christ all of a sudden, that's justice or mercy
or whatever you want to call it. If you wouldn't
accept it of a human doing it, why are you
Why is it all of a sudden okay for a
god to do it? Why is it okay for God
to sacrifice himself to himself?
Speaker 4: If you believe in the triumphrate got right? It is that.
Speaker 3: We can't make it sound any sillier than it already does,
so it can't really accuse us of that. But I
just I don't get it. It doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: Why is substitutional atonement considered a valid thing to do
when we don't accept it anywhere else.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I mean it's rather curious how they make
that calculus work. And I honestly, when I was when
I was a Christian, I really didn't give it to
you know, more than two seconds of thought for it, right,
Like I was just told Jesus died for you, So
you know.
Speaker 2: You should definitely feel guilty for that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's some serious guilting too, right, I went
through nine hours of labor to birth you, and you
do you know I have paid for you know, every
hospital visit, in doctor's appointment and your braces and so you.
Speaker 4: Know that kind of guilting.
Speaker 3: I don't think we consider good parenting and yet we
accept it from God, this type of guilt tripping.
Speaker 4: And shaming.
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, I know.
Speaker 1: Right, So we do have somebody over there on TikTok
that's wanting to get up here, So I will go
ahead and get them on up in the box here.
Let's see if I believe it's Tony. See if Tony's
gonna connect. If you are on TikTok, make sure you're
tippy tapping on that screen there. Make sure you're sharing
out the live to all of your friends, especially people
that you think will disagree with us, and make sure
you're commenting. Commenting sends positive signals on all the platforms, uh,
in order to get this stream out there so that
we get some really good callers up in here. I'm
not sure. I don't think Tony's actually gonna gonna connect.
I think Tony's a ghost ghost request there. We do
have the phone, yeah, I know, a fucking ghosts.
Speaker 2: We do have all the.
Speaker 1: Lines open over there on call in studio. If you
want to call in, it's five one two nine nine
two four to two. You can ask both Jim and
I about this whole Palm Sunday week, like, what's going
on with that?
Speaker 2: Yep, it looks like Tony was a ghost ghost. Tony
the body was not, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4: Can we make it anywhere for the poor guy.
Speaker 3: He probably just had technical issues and here we are
making making jokes about him.
Speaker 2: Oh well, well, so the whole ghost thing.
Speaker 1: People go away from the app, you know, they request up,
they forget and everything, and so it's just sort of there.
So yeah, it's definitely not Tony's fault that. That's definitely
not what I meant, it's whatever kind of weird thing
that the TikTok app has going on over there.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Uh so, Jim, I know that we're we're pretty much
aligned on the whole mythesist sort of thing about you know,
Jesus not existing and everything. And I feel like most
atheists out there probably agree with the Gospel version of
Jesus not ever being a real historical figure. But I'm
kind of curious as far as this week is the
Holy Week, the entrance into Jerusalem and you know, him
getting pinned up on the cross and everything like that.
Speaker 2: Where do you think that that kind of comes from?
Speaker 5: Like?
Speaker 4: What?
Speaker 2: What? What? What do you what do you think?
Speaker 1: I guess maybe got the Gospel like Paul and the
other people to like invent such an extravagant sort of
deal for Jesus.
Speaker 4: Well don't don't.
Speaker 3: We mostly get that from John, who you know, and
John's kind of that whole Jesus superhero thing.
Speaker 4: Right. My take on Matthew and.
Speaker 3: Mark is Jesus as kind of a regular guy. We
get miracles out of him. Granted, none of those miracles
are anything that a stage magician can't do, but we
do get some miracles and all that, but we don't
see anything getting We don't see, to my mind anyway,
as much of the Jesus as sacrificial lamb except from John,
and so I think that's the where we get it
all from, right, is he's the sacrifice and therefore part
of a festival or a celebration of the sacrifice, which
seems really really weird when we're sacrificing a human and
human sacrifice. Yeah, but I think I don't know how
much of it. I don't think any of it actually
comes from Paul. I think it's all John. I mean
at a lot of the supernatural Jesus Christ badass thing
comes from John to my mind.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you know, John has the more explicit connection
to the Yam Kapoor ritual and everything. So yeah, John
definitely is is very very tied into that. Let's see,
we do have somebody else over there on the TikTok.
Speaker 2: Just let everybody know.
Speaker 1: If you're watching on TikTok and you want to talk
to us, just go on ahead, request up. We are
only doing one person at a time, though.
Speaker 4: We also have someone on we have a Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we got someone screening in over there. But I'm
not sure if tiny Rick over there on TikTok is
going to be a friendly or oh, but let's see,
we've got tiny Rick coming up. Maybe Yep, there's tiny Rick.
Hi there, Tiny Rick. Are you over eighteen?
Speaker 2: I see him? Flash? Oh are you there? Tiny Yeah?
Speaker 4: Can you hear me? Yep?
Speaker 2: I got you. Are you over eighteen?
Speaker 4: Yes, I'm thirty nine.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Okay, what are your what are your pronouns? By the way,
I hear him?
Speaker 4: Okay?
Speaker 2: Are you opposition or are you friendly?
Speaker 5: Absolutely not, No, I'm a huge Frian. I basically just
wanted to say hi because no one else was calling
in and just a quick question. And maybe you can
give you a perspective because during the announcements you always
say that the atheist community is about secular humanism and
the separation of church and government. Then I can put
it together right now. But it's for things I think.
Do you guys have like one in mind that you
think is kind of on top as it were, and
as untke the others follow from that, because I mean.
Speaker 1: I would yeah, so, I mean I would say the
separation of religion and government is probably would probably be
like a top priority. But I think feeding from that
are the other things secular humanism, critical thinking, atheism, you know,
atheism as far as like you know, the secular aspect
of atheism. I guess, I don't know what's your opinion there, Jim.
Speaker 3: I think first we need to be clear that we're speaking,
you know, that is coming from the Atheist Community of Austin,
which is an organization, a club essentially in Austin, Texas
who puts puts these shows on, So we're not trying
to speak for all atheists.
Speaker 4: I don't know. I hope you weren't taking that, But.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that the secular humanism and everything kind
of flows really from those ideas, to include separation of
religion and government.
Speaker 4: Comes from that.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I think that as a focus right now,
given how much Christian nationalism has the ear of the
government at the moment, that that is something that we
need to be much more focused on than maybe we have.
Speaker 5: Done the most important thing at the moment.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then Kelly over there on TikTok says, can I volunteer?
Speaker 2: And yes, you can. You can volunteer.
Speaker 1: There are a lot of ways in which you can volunteer,
and you can email volunteer at Atheist dash Community dot
org and you can get involved. You We're always looking
for people interested in being part of our productions. We're
looking for you know, crew members. You can be a
guest on one of our shows or even eventually become
a host. So you just email volunteer at Atheistdashcommunity dot
org and you can help us out.
Speaker 5: And since you have a call it and if you're
in the Austin area, I'm gonna head out and say
thank you.
Speaker 4: Guys. Have a good evening, all.
Speaker 2: Right, thank you, Tony Rick. I hope you have a
good one.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think sometimes people forget that we are put on
by an organization that exists in Austin when we say
the Atheist Community of Austin. And so it's important, I think,
to make sure we make that distinction when we're when
someone's talking about the things the ACA does or.
Speaker 4: Believes or is currently supporting.
Speaker 3: So thanks, like you know, atheists helping the homeless, you know,
there's a lot of things. And the ASA also supports
other atheist organizations as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we normally have you know, we take our
first call and then we do some other announcements and
while we're still getting our actual call in studio call
queued up here.
Speaker 2: We do want to.
Speaker 1: Encourage people to like the videos on all of the
platforms where we're streaming today, TikTok, YouTube, all of that
good stuff. Make sure you're tippy tapping on that screen
over there on TikTok, sharing out the stream on all
of the different locations, and and making sure that you're
helping us produce the best show because y'all are part
of the show by getting this video out there to everybody,
enable notifications, make sure you're commenting, because that's gonna help
to Another way to support us is by sending in
super chats. We will read as many as we can
on the stream today, So if you want to get
any kind of super chats in, definitely send those super
chats in and we will be addressing those on occasion
in between calls, and at the end of the call,
we will be addressing any that we get in. If
you're in the Austin area, you can follow the Atheist
Community of Austin on meetup to keep up with all
of the community events, and you can see what's going
on at tiny dot c c for its last ACA
meetup we've got Philosophy under the Stars, game nights, and
many many more things that are taking place there. You
can join our weekly watch parties at the Free Thought
Library on Sundays for live viewings of Talk Keithen and
The Atheist Experience every Sunday. The doors are open up
at noon and it's a great place for building community.
And while we're still getting our call screened in there,
uh they dropped, I do want to send a very
big thank you to the true out there on the
back end that's putting this together. Thank you guys so
much for doing that big crew cam there. Thank you
guys so much. Y'all are awesome for making everything run
smoothly here on the Atheist Experience. Y'all are great. And yeah,
we're still waiting on calls to get in here. We
did have somebody that was calling in to complain about pronouns,
so I'm so sorry we're.
Speaker 2: Not gonna be able to address that one.
Speaker 1: But now, Jim, what would you say is your biggest
complaint about you know, Christianity, maybe Christianity's effects on our
current modern like you know, society or culture, Like what
kind of things do you notice people doing or people
putting out there that seems to be a detriment.
Speaker 3: I think that the biggest petriment is that we have
more churches active churches than we do schools. I mean,
I think that tells us where people's priorities are. Then
we have a movement towards taking the funding for charter
schools and trying to move that to religious schools as well.
I think that's the biggest problem that we have, is
that secular folk have not fought this hard enough that
we can now see, especially with Charlie charter schools, that
money trying to go to private religious schools. I have
a problem with charter schools in general. I was a supporter,
but I in the last ten or fifteen years or so,
I have become less and less supportive until point where
I'm completely against it. I think it's a really bad
idea for our schools. But I think that's the biggest thing. Right.
We can see what the priorities are for this country
by what they put money towards, and we put more
money into building churches than we do you building schools,
and we're trying to put more money into building church
schools rather than good secular schools. That will teach everybody
no matter what. And I think that's it. That's a problem.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I totally agree about that, because you've got
so many efforts going on right now to create voucher
programs so that we can actually use government money to
send kids to private religious schools. And I just don't
think that that should be you know, a use of
money in that kind of way. I think that voucher
programs they really do only seek to support like some
of the richest individuals out there that can actually afford,
you know, beyond the whole voucher situation, afford to send
their kids to private schools. The voucher programs end up
only benefiting, you know, those people that don't actually need
the vouchers, and so that's a really big problem there.
And and of course, you know, they're trying to force
a lot of religion into school nowadays. There's several different Uh,
there's several different efforts. Yeah, Oklahoma, in Texas, Uh, they're
they're they're trying to push the Ten Commandments into schools,
and you know, the Ten Commandments are really kind of
bullshit in my opinion, just trying to to get people,
you know, angry in the comments in both locations here.
Speaker 4: Uh call in right?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 6: Uh?
Speaker 1: The Ten Commandments being being utter bullshit, we can run
through those because like the Ten Commandments, uh, you know,
the first three are just God stroking.
Speaker 2: His own ego. I mean, and just to be honest.
Speaker 4: Which version are we going to read?
Speaker 3: Are we going to read the most common where it's
thou shalt not lie rather than thou shalt not bear
false witness against thy neighbor, which are not the same thing,
or thou shalt not kill versus I shall not commit murder,
which again are not the same thing.
Speaker 4: Right, I mean?
Speaker 3: So, which which interpretation are we going with of the
the original Hebrew? You know, that's a good question.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 1: And you know, to be quite honest, I feel like
most Christians, at least the ones that are looking to
push the Ten Commandments into the schools are probably going
to be using some kind of bullshit like Kjvuh. So
they're not even going to be, you know, using anything scholarly.
They just they just want to force kids to believe
in God. It seems that seems to be a case.
Speaker 3: I can't I still don't understand why people think the
KJV is worth toilet paper, I mean worth being toilet paper.
Just it's so so bad in its translation.
Speaker 4: It's so obvious that it's trying to.
Speaker 3: Uh harmonize things that can't be harmonized for the simple purpose.
You know, like everywhere in the in the KJV, where
you read word servant, it should really say a slave,
because these people were not paid like we would expect
a servant to be. And that's obviously because owning slaves,
even in King James's time, was considered a bad idea
and immral. And you can't have the Bible supporting immoral things.
Speaker 4: And yet it clearly supports slavery.
Speaker 3: And if somebody wants to come on and debate that,
we you know, think John and I'd be more unhappy
to quote the Bible at you until you realize that
you're wronged.
Speaker 2: It does support slavery, right, No, oh, go ahead.
Speaker 3: Say it's amazing to me how many people will quote
all the verses except the ones about childle slavery.
Speaker 4: They know those, but they don't.
Speaker 3: They're completely surprised when you start quoting all the verses
about chidle slavery.
Speaker 1: Well, and if you read that one to them, they're
going to be like, I know exactly what you're going
to say right here, and no, this was not owning
them as property. But the funny thing is is that
when you actually read it, it literally says you may
own them as property. And it's amazing to me how
they'll they'll literally try to.
Speaker 2: Convince you that words do not mean words, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you can beat them as long as they
don't die within three days, for they are your And
the most accurate translation is money, right, not even property,
it's money, you know.
Speaker 2: Honestly.
Speaker 1: Another area where the slave servant thing is really muddies
the waters is when you read the Annunciation of the Lord,
I believe is what it is called, is where Mary
is voluntold to be impregnated. Because at the very end
there I get a lot of people that say, oh,
well Mary agreed to it. She she you know, gave
her consent. But like if you if you literally read
the Corney Greek there it uses the word do a
do they? I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing that right,
but it's do they and do they literally means female slave? Yes,
So like it's the translators literally just transform it into
servant to make it more palatable and it's kind of
crazy how they do that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and she has never asked whether she wants to
do it. She's told And I dare any Christian to
come on and should and give us the Bible quote
where there is a question mark at the end of
the quote indicating a question. Because we're talking earlier about
Dean Meadows. Dean Meadows says, well, no, here's the quote.
I'm like, there's no question here, dude, where's the question?
Speaker 4: Right? Yeah, It's like there's there's no question here, right.
Speaker 3: She just simply says, well, I'm your slave, so you
do whatever you want to be.
Speaker 4: You can beat me as long as I don't die.
Speaker 3: Within three days, right, And you know that brings up
the whole is God really moral thing, which you know
is another thing that Christians don't like getting beat up on.
Speaker 4: But you don't even and we don't even have to
agree on what the definition of moral is.
Speaker 3: We just ask you very very simple questions, like do
you think it's moral for there to be rules and
tests for women to be virgins but not men. I
can't find a single piece of evidence that men there's
a test for virginity and men not anywhere, right, And
so that brings up a really important question, why not
is that? Is that moral? Do you think that's okay?
Or are you going to say, well, separate but equal?
Speaker 4: Right? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean you get so many people on like, especially
on TikTok. I've noticed that we'll go to great links
to run cover for God's rape attitude here, and they'll
they'll come up with any kind of explanation for why
it was okay, including just simply saying that words don't
mean words, you know. And I think it's really ridiculous
that that they go to that, to to those.
Speaker 2: Links, right.
Speaker 3: And this passage is the one where it says that
if a man marries a woman, has sex with her,
decides he doesn't like her, and claims she's not a virgin.
I mean, this is really specific conditions here. Then the
parents are to bring the sheets as proof that she was,
in fact or virgin. Now we start talking again about
is this moral? Because only about half of women bleed
the first time they have sex.
Speaker 4: So where is the moral here? Where are the morals?
Is that moral?
Speaker 3: Is okay to convict of a crime based on a
physical characteristic that only happens to half of the population.
Is that okay? And it's like, well, I don't think
it is. I mean, how does God not know that
that only happens to half of all women? Why just
you know, without even talking about the virginity issue.
Speaker 4: And then the.
Speaker 3: Question becomes, well, if you don't believe that separate but
equal is okay, then how does a woman go, I
didn't like having sex with him, so he wasn't a virgin,
therefore I.
Speaker 4: Want a divorce. How do we prove that? How does
that same thing work in reverse? And it doesn't?
Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, no, I totally agree. I mean the
entire like the entire Bible in general, is very you know,
misogynistic and anti woman, and it amazes me how people
just don't see that. And I think that instances like
you just brought up are you know, incredibly important to
bring up to believers out there, because they regularly don't understand,
you know, they don't understand like how bad the religion is.
And that's why I don't know. I don't know about you,
but Jim, but I like running with the whole idea
that Christianity does more harm than good, and like the
amount of misogyny, like systemic misogyny that it's created and
has facilitated. I think that that definitely more than suffices
for it. But I'm kind of curious, what's your take
on that particular statement, like Christianity doing more harm than good.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, we can just look at how often
Christianity has had to resort to violence. I mean, I
don't think we can say that Christianity has spread because
of the quality of their arguments. Clearly we don't buy
any of the arguments. They all are flawed. None of
them address the problem of evil or any of its premises.
And I think if you're going to claim that there
is some sort of omnipotent, omniscient, omni benevolent God out there,
that you need to deal with the problem of evil.
And I think that's why I think the problem of
evil is why you don't see that triumvir in God
show up in the first century.
Speaker 4: He's what a second third century invention and I don't.
Speaker 3: So, you know, I just if you're not dealing with that.
If you're not, I forgot the question. I'm sorry, I
got off on a tangent.
Speaker 2: Oh no, you're fine.
Speaker 1: Just your general sentiment on whether Christianity does more harm
than good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the quality of the violence from the very
beginning there are you know, they when they first got
a hold of the first Roman emperor, I started working
on making it punishable by death to believe in any God.
Speaker 4: But there's and you you have those kinds of punishments happening.
You have.
Speaker 3: You know, the Crusades, the conquistadors, and even up into
the eighteen hundreds, you have Native American children being ripped
from their families taken to religious schools where you know,
every single one of those schools that I'm aware of
that we have some sort of mass grave or grave
of those children who died. So I think you can
just look at that history and go, this is stuff
that's still happening today. The Catholic Church is still playing
you know, hide the priest, when the priest is playing
hide to Salami with kids, you know, and it's it's
not I just don't see anything any benefit at all
we currently. You know, I think we can trace a
lot of our current geopolitical one way or the other two,
not just Christian religion, but religion in general. And that's
a problem. I mean, you have the Israelis who believe
that their country is given to them by God, and
really it was given to them by the United Nations.
So yeah, I just I think there are problems when
you start saying I am holier than you, and you
start creating these divisions based on what people believe. And
now we have three thousand different Christian denominations or a
thousand or harbor.
Speaker 4: Many we actually have. That begins to be problematic.
Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, no, I totally agree, it is very problematic.
We do have somebody that has managed to get through
our call screeners over there on callin studio.
Speaker 2: Are you ready to take a call?
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, Okay, it's going to be the best of topics,
totally totally on topic for the eighth is community of Austin,
and that's going to be Daniel from Mexico City over there,
wanting to complain about pronouns.
Speaker 2: What's up there, Daniel, how are you doing?
Speaker 7: Hey, I'm going to find I'm just a victor. I
don't have like anything against like different genders or of anyone.
Speaker 8: Not signing their own gender. Just a victor.
Speaker 7: I don't believe that everyone has the right pus signed
down gender. And I don't have a problem with anyone.
I just want to make that clear, right, my okay,
when is the so when is the PAULK. Let's say,
for example, if I watch any other show, right, let's
say I'm channing on something on the tree or any
other jutube channel, it is pretty common to believe, like
the for some presenting the show is the gender that
we think of.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 7: Let's say, for example, for a man, and I would
just use like men and female as like the generate one,
and men and women.
Speaker 8: As each other.
Speaker 7: If that's not a problem, right, If I see a
man like presenting the show, I usually I believe like
he's a man and he like a scientist, so much him.
If it's a woman, basically the same or if it's
femalely is basically the same. And basically I'm asking the
question because.
Speaker 8: I believe like this generated manstraction with the general public.
Speaker 7: Right, because there are extremely just like that are.
Speaker 8: Like extreme and some religion.
Speaker 7: I believe that there are extremes on like gender extremes,
so basically anything, and I believe like shrong the level
the general's more preations with the general.
Speaker 8: Public than not trying.
Speaker 7: If anyone like ask for it. I think that it
is an option. I don't have a problem with that,
but by the fault, I think that.
Speaker 4: General explo.
Speaker 3: So so, have you ever walked down the street and
he used the wrong the wrong gender version exuda the
Spanish is fairly is very heavily gender specific. Have you
ever used the wrong gender on somebody by accident?
Speaker 9: It's not on the street, not really, Yeah, not really,
but yeah, I don't it happens, right because guys, guys
sometimes have long hair, they're they're not as you know,
they're not what you expect and say use the wrong
gender or vice versa.
Speaker 4: We just have to do it on screen to prevent that.
Speaker 1: Right, And I mean, how do you know? How do
you know how somebody identifies without asking them or or
without them, you know, telling you how to address them?
Like it it seems rather pretentious of you to be like, well,
I know how they identify because I can just visually
identify them in whatever way I want to identify them.
You know that kind of seems pretentious to me, does
it not?
Speaker 7: Well, it is a little bit, to be honest. I
don't want to just say it's not like it has
got to do with that, but I think that everyone
will agree like ninety nine.
Speaker 8: Sorry, I didn't want to say that because it is not.
Speaker 7: I'm not actual, But let's say like nine percent blocks
of the people that we mean on a general basis
will be the gender that everythink they are, Like, I
don't tell you.
Speaker 2: Do you think that you should make that assumption?
Speaker 3: Though?
Speaker 1: Do you think that that's a reasonable assumption that you
should be making for everybody? Because what it sounds like
to me is that you're saying is that, well, unless
I am told otherwise, I should automatically identify people with
however I perceive them to identify. And why is it
not just more polite and better in general to just
ask people how they identify? And with us presenting how
people identify on screen, we're just making sure that people
know how to address people so that we can have
a nice, respectful conversation. The conversation only gets combative when
people refuse to identify, like, you know, to comply with
our identification rules. It's only at that point where you know,
we start to get a bit you know, I guess
combative in our conversation because people don't want to do that,
and it really kind of perplexes as to why people
wouldn't want to do that.
Speaker 7: No, the thing is, I agree, but there are two
points in that argument that you just made. One. Yeah,
I think that as I mentioned everyone or almost everyone,
you will be able to see or assume that. I
don't want to use the wrong the wrong world because
I don't want to solve that, but to be honest,
but let's say, for example, if you see someone on
antiv or if you see someone on the street, ninety
five ninety six percent of the tanger will be correct
on why the of the general you're generalizing right. Obviously
you can make mistakes, but I think that, for example,
if you're presenting a show and you are the gender
that ninety five percent of the people seeing you will
assume you are. I don't think that there is a
problem with just keeping that right.
Speaker 3: And I don't think when I use gender neutral pronouns,
why why not just use gender neutral language until you
find out to do that as the default. I don't know.
Speaker 7: The thing is, and maybe that's just my percise things
and my experience living in Mexico. I know that there
are different cultures in the world and different cities, and
even like the culture can varigate it in different cities,
but for example, in Mexico, it is somewhat offensive just
to say the least if you refer to someone as
gender mutual when you're meeting up right, because there are
It is not like it's not like the people would
get defensive or they want or they would try to
fight you. But usually if you're talking to a man
like it is in at least in the Mexican culture,
it is respectful for them to just call them okay,
good nature or nice to me interest something like that, right,
And I don'tize that. I don't think that'd be correctical, right, because.
Speaker 8: I have to mention that different culture change.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not just American culture needs changed, you know,
in the US, so we have the same thing. It's
just that English is has less under specific downs ad verbs, right,
but still and that the culture's got.
Speaker 4: To change too.
Speaker 3: It's not right to make assumptions about people based on
bare facts like what people are wearing, because if you
go back, you know, one hundred years, you will find
men and women wearing very different clothes today or even
two hundred years, right, because you go back to in
the US, we go back to colonial times, and we
see that men were wearing makeup, men were wearing wigs,
men were wearing heels, men were wearing corsets, not women,
and actually seventeen hundreds early eighteen hundreds, it doesn't.
Speaker 4: Take Yeah, it happens after that.
Speaker 3: So making assumptions based on what people are wearing doesn't seem.
Speaker 4: Like a good way to address people.
Speaker 3: Much better to do it and and show real respect
for them by being gender natral until you find out
what you wish.
Speaker 4: To be called.
Speaker 7: I think that I will agree with that if I
were living in the jus right for a couple of meals,
even if you mentioned that's not bad way.
Speaker 1: Daniel, I'm wondering, do you recognize that US normalizing the
you know, requiring pronouns, having pronouns next to our name
so that people can properly identifies Do you recognize that
as a as US actively trying to uh support like
the trans community and actively support not just automatically assuming gender.
Speaker 7: I suppose the one I think like asking everyone, yeah,
let me go, like pret the other. I believe that
the first one is is a good one, is a
good polive someone else and you need to do that.
They Tald to them in the show, asking them.
Speaker 8: What gender they are, what the gender they want to use?
So what pronounced they want to use?
Speaker 7: I think that sad thing, right, because again, somewhat with
a different gender will cultivation one. You have no another
queue or another clues to pleasically try to assign agenda. Right,
I think that's a good so right, Okay, so you're
you're all would I be accurate?
Speaker 1: Would I be accurate in assuming that the the only
thing that you're complaining about right now is the fact
that Jim and I as well as other hosts, put
our pronouns on the screen.
Speaker 2: Is that what you're complaining about?
Speaker 7: It is not a complaint, as I mentioned, it is
the format of the show. I'm just wondering why should
that if that generates a lot of fraction. For example,
I might say that because I have recommendedition to multiple
people and a lot of them have asked me, Okay,
what do they have? The gender is like, n I
keep using that and let me change that? What keep
the majority of the horse like have the this the
gender that I think they have? Let's say that way?
Speaker 8: Right?
Speaker 7: They just different way, I think, and maybe a little
bit more. But I think that's having that by the culture.
I telettle bit more friction. I don't think it is
a bad thing for me.
Speaker 3: No, it creates from the giant people, Daniel. It only
creates friction with people who are transphobs.
Speaker 7: I don't think so, to be honest, I have known.
Speaker 3: Remember, hey, Daniel, which of us has been doing this
show for over ten years with his pronouns next to
his name and does other shows? And which of us
on here is hosts their own show with uh with
their pronouns and would know more about the friction that
gets generated than you.
Speaker 7: I think that I'm the first one that I'm mentioned it,
because I don't think that I'm the only one that
thinks about it.
Speaker 4: Oh no, you're not.
Speaker 1: Go ahead, John, Sorry, Well, I was just gonna say
I I even on TikTok I ask people their pronouns
because sometimes they just crash out immediately when I ask
them for their pronouns, because they think that it's some
kind of weird agenda that they want to attribute to
trans people or uh something like that, And it's because
they're transphobic. It's because they want to push you know,
their own heteronormative or not not necessarily heteronormative, but but
you know, transphobic sort of standards for everybody. They just
want to be able to assume everybody is the gender
that they perceive them as. They also want to have
the ability to call trans people the their their sex
assigned to birth.
Speaker 2: So like that's I mean, that's what they want to do.
Speaker 7: With that's.
Speaker 4: Huh.
Speaker 7: I'm to be honest, I think that's not. As I mentioned,
it is dumb to like trying to normatize if.
Speaker 4: Someone because bot that's why you no, no.
Speaker 7: No, no, maybe you misunderstand me. I think that it's
dumb for people so force that one on other people.
I think that everyone has has a mention.
Speaker 4: I think that.
Speaker 8: Everyone has a right to assign it own gender.
Speaker 7: Right, and you should be able to spain to other people,
and the other people should be able to use such
a when they are speaking to you and we're referring
to do I hope that's it, right, What I mention
is so some people, like the general public is not
really talking about this in general, right that gender. To
be honest, different gender really only comes in in the
plane a conversation when someone has a different gender, right,
Usually we don't really think, Okay, I need to present
myself as him, at least not in.
Speaker 8: The general or at least not in my culture as imagined.
Speaker 7: I'm coming and my opinions are reflected on my culture.
Speaker 2: Right or my culture.
Speaker 4: Right right.
Speaker 1: So so Daniel, I just want to say, right, like,
we're based in the United States, and the United States, Uh,
the trans community is under fire right now. They're being
targeted specifically. There's many bills that are going through various
levels of government that are specifically targeting trans people. So
like asking people for their pronouns and making sure that
we're identifying people correctly and normalizing that kind of process,
that kind of workflow in normal conversation is an important
thing because what it says to the trans community is
that we see you, we hear you, and we want
you to be accepted in our in in society in general,
not our society, but in society in general. So that's
what we're trying to promote with this. We're trying to
normalize it. We're trying to get people used to not
necessarily identifying or you know, not not necessarily assuming somebody's gender.
Speaker 2: So that's the reason why we're doing it. And if
it's a.
Speaker 1: Problem for your particular culture. Maybe that's a sign that
your culture needs to change instead of forcing trans people
to change, you know, to meet the status quo of
your culture.
Speaker 7: I don't know. I don't think. I don't mean that
starts people love that. I will agree that Mexican culture
are more problems, like even like Harsher problems in Mexico
sat right now, that not.
Speaker 8: Even related to the trans community.
Speaker 7: And I will agree that maybe allow him, sorry not allowed,
maybe asking or being proactive on this. Maybe it is
a I got things and leading indigeous culture. I just yeah. Basically,
the thing is I have recommended the show to people
in Mexico, right and some people in the jus, but
not that much because I live.
Speaker 8: In Mexico, so it will be hard for me to recommend.
Speaker 7: Conditions to people. So that's that's what's the question. Really
is nothing as a measure, is nothing as the trust
committee and not even like the twos community.
Speaker 8: There are other communities that use different genders.
Speaker 7: Let's say, for example, if maybe there's some weird but
I have a a friend of suffering and he just
is like other pronounces and I agree with him. In
nine persant of noting my percent of the issues, right,
Like we believe in global warming, we believe in like
we've got AGAs, we will have like a lot of
similar beliefs. It's just like it's like part of that culture.
And when I talk to him, I just each other sometimes.
Speaker 8: Like how you mispronounce it.
Speaker 7: Like I'm not even sin gener that is something is
another thing. Sorry, I will mispronounce it in English if
I try to do so, right, because I think that
makes lingo. But I don't have a problem with that.
Speaker 8: I just was wondering why was that the population?
Speaker 7: And yeah, I think that may be because.
Speaker 3: We recognize to be part of the problem or part
of the solution to the culture needing to change, and
we choose to be part of the solution, not part
of the problem.
Speaker 4: Those are your.
Speaker 3: Choices be part of the problem or part of the solution,
unless you talk about chemistry, in which your case you
are either part of the solution or part of the precipitate.
Speaker 7: I think that there is an option for being new
two and I don't think that there is like anything
growing the neutral and that was being my point, but
I think that being part of the solution is inside.
Speaker 3: That's where the fault is to be part of the solution,
not part of the problem, because too is not to decide,
is still to make a choice, right, Choosing the lesser
of two evils is still choosing evil.
Speaker 7: Yeah, But the point is like maybe at least in
some cases, let's say, for example, and again to the
to the question not showing the like the gender by
the phone, I don't think that is part of the problem.
It's not like everyically everything the sol of the problem
like life tmssion will be put putting.
Speaker 3: Our putting our pronouns everywhere, And my pronouns are everywhere
on every piece of social media I have, whether I'm
at work or uh out in public. My pronouns are
out there because I want to be part of the solution,
not the problem.
Speaker 4: I choose that or not.
Speaker 7: No, I and I understand, like what I was asking
them basically because of us or My point was, I
don't see anything wrong in having that by the poone. Right,
there are some places where it is the police that
is mandatory, and I think that that's a little bit
risky because you start like making friction, right, and that's
what I meant to start the show, Like I think
that maybe by that with mandatory or by that people,
so they think that there is some friction with people
that I don't really thinking about it. And if they
meet like someone that is runs, someone that has a
different gender, we don't refuse to call them by that
because I think that the only people and this is
my personal opinion.
Speaker 8: I will not try to generalize it, but.
Speaker 7: I think that people who like denies or refuse to
refer to someone else with the genderly prefer are just
like next to be honest and sorry for the one,
but they are either bed or pick up or something
like that.
Speaker 8: I don't think that's the general people.
Speaker 3: Like if you ask, like if you to call somebody
by their correct name because they have changed their name,
simply because they have changed their name to a gender,
a name that is associated with the gender you don't
think they are, and you refuse to use that name
or those pronouns, you are a bigot by definition.
Speaker 7: Yeah, exactly, But I don't think that the majority of
the people have bigots. Maybe I'm brong.
Speaker 3: Because well, so the majority of people don't have a
problem with you, at least in the United States, don't
have a problem with using general natural mojority of people
United States tend to not want to be biggots, and
they recognize bigotry when they see it. Now, the Mexic
culture may be different. Maybe you maybe have some problems,
but there are only two solutions. Be part of the
problem or part of this or they're only two choices.
You'll be part of the problem or part of the solution.
That's it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just well, just to jump in here real quick.
Speaker 1: I know that Mexico has a pretty predominant like Catholic community.
Like in Mexico, I don't know if you are Catholic
or if you know Catholic persons, but generally Catholic people
are you know, transphobic. I mean, they don't want to
recognize trans people in the community.
Speaker 2: They don't want to.
Speaker 1: Recognize the fact that gender is more of a social
construct than anything else. They don't want to recognize it
when people transition. At least, this is what our experience
is here in the States. Do you have a different
experience or David Daniel, sorry Daniel.
Speaker 4: That way.
Speaker 7: The thing is, Mexican culture is changing a lot. In
the last let's say, Tonnagers, Mexico's really Catholic like extremely
Catholic and just by basically the results of the Mexican
colonization and the post conversions in Mexico. Right, but in
the last stwentage use you will be hard press to
find someone jong by John and me fully less years
that still goes to schurch like every week and something
like that. So it is changing a lot. You can
even see like that shows you can start looking like
seeing things like that, so it is not a strict
as well. You can still see like old people like
with those views, at least in my experience. Right, maybe
you can see like some extreme people or some people
that were yeah basically take it to charge like every
weekend and things like that, but it is less common nowadays,
to be honest, it is more free, more more open.
In fact, you can we I think that we have
like a researchers on the famous movement lately, and the
same with the LGBT two community. We have like lgbt
coperags in like our capital city and things like that.
Speaker 8: So it is not like that lately.
Speaker 7: But yeah, it was like.
Speaker 8: That like maybe twenty thirty years ago.
Speaker 2: Okay, uh, like that's my question.
Speaker 8: I don't think that.
Speaker 1: Sorry, go ahead, no, Well, I was just gonna say, I,
you know, I don't live in Mexico, so I don't
know what the culture is like there. So but as
far as like us presenting our pronouns, it's just our
we're trying to like uh, like Jim was saying, we're
trying to be part of the solution by making sure
that people have become accustomed to seeing pronouns and bio
pronouns next to our names so that they can accurately
get a sense of.
Speaker 2: How we identify.
Speaker 1: Is what you know, is the effort that we're putting forth,
and it's the effort that I put forth on you know,
all of my social media platforms, uh and everything that
I do. And so I'm yeah, that's what I'm I'm
definitely trying to do there.
Speaker 7: Okay, man, I think I can respect that one. I
don't think that that should be difficult just by the
pretendic grips, but I can respect.
Speaker 1: The Okay, all right, Well, is that all that you
wanted to talk about today there, Daniel?
Speaker 7: Yeah, basically I have it like some of the things
that I will like maybe which but I think that
I have to time on the show.
Speaker 2: All right, Thank you, Daniel. Appreciate you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Sam, but.
Speaker 1: Sorry, I've got my I'm trying this thing where I'm
using my tablet over here, trying to be all fancy
with multiple gadgets going. Uh, but it sometimes it does
it doesn't want to respond to my touch. But anyways,
we don't have anybody else in Q on either TikTok
or in call in studio. If you would like to
challenge us on this holy sacrificial week that we have
such a problem with, definitely call in. The number is
five one two nine nine one nine two four two.
We would love to take your call. We would love
to interact with you on how pointless Jesus' sacrifice was
because he did not he just sacrificed the weekend and
he could have just as easily changed as mind. So
he literally just likes bdsm it kind of it makes
it seem like But anyways, Uh, we don't have If
you're over there on TikTok. By the way, if you
can tippy tap on the screen there so that we
can get the the feed out to the rest of TikTok,
so it we can bring some people in also if
you haven't shared it yet, Uh, take take the time
to like repost it, share it with a friend that
you know, uh, you know, maybe has an.
Speaker 2: Issue with atheists or mythicists.
Speaker 4: Like uh, you know I was.
Speaker 1: I was bringing up at the beginning. Both Jim and
I are mythsis in that respect. So definitely call in
and we would love to interact with you. The number
once again is five one two nine nine two four two,
or just hit that little request up icon over there
on the Tikety Talk. Now, Jim, I'm wondering for you
growing up, was was Easter week or like Easter this
time of year?
Speaker 2: Was that like really big for you?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 3: I was Catholic, so yeah, we did the whole length
thing CANi meat not only fish on Fridays. You know,
I went to Catholic school about half the years I
was in school, uh you know, K through twelve. So yeah,
if you want to go, you know cafeteria, you were
getting you know, non meat dishes, et cetera.
Speaker 4: The whole giving something up for Lent was a big thing.
Speaker 3: On the first day of Lenton class and when I
was when we weren't going to to U a parochial school,
we were in CCD classes. So those are the you know,
evening classes for Catholics, basically for Catholic children. I forget,
I forget what CCD even stands for anymore, but it's
you know, the Sunday school for for Catholics is on
the weekday because we don't really do Sunday school, you
know that the Mass things a little bit different.
Speaker 4: But so yeah, it was always a big deal.
Speaker 3: And then of course, uh sunrise service on Easter morning.
You know, it was always on the way that my
family tried to make we were not twice a year Catholics.
We were every single Sunday, Sunday, Sunday Sunday.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, man, uh yeah.
Speaker 1: I grew up Catholic too, But you know, I was
a pretty lazy Catholic to be quite honest. Like I
was just a Catholic because my parents told us. It
told me to, you know, go to Catholic church and
everything like that. So like I really wasn't like all
into like the whole theology of it. I went to
private Catholic school and so like every Easter, right about
the time of Easter, we would have like Stations of
the Cross, right we'd have to.
Speaker 2: Go through and memorize.
Speaker 1: And that was that was kind of crazy to have
to go through that because it was you know, growing
up now looking back at it now, like it's so
it's it really is so crazy because with Catholics. I
don't know if many people know this distinction out there,
but Catholics they they don't just have the cross like
they go crucifix right, like, they totally go all in
with the crucifix.
Speaker 2: They they.
Speaker 1: Have the bloody Jesus up there and everything like that.
And when they make kids do the stations of the
Cross like that, you literally have to walk through each
station and like it's like, oh and Jesus got beat
the shit out of here and he dropped to his
knees and he dropped to his knees three times, and
you have to do that like every three times.
Speaker 2: Is where Jesus like dropped to his knees and everything
like that. It's just it's crazy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it is. The rituals are and the rituals
are kind of interesting to you, I think from a
perspective of you go to another Catholic church in a
country whose language you don't speak, and you can still
participate in the mass. You're just reading the English version,
not the in my case, we're reading the Korean or
a Korean Catholic church, and of course the entire services
in Korean. But we're following along because we know which
prayers they are using for that day for the hire
a service, and so we can follow along and read
the passages that are being read.
Speaker 4: The eucharistic prayers.
Speaker 3: We know which ones are going to be using for
that particular day in most cases, and so.
Speaker 4: You can read along with the whole thing.
Speaker 3: And I've seen very see now the old people participating
fully in the service, simply because it's.
Speaker 4: So ingrained in them. You know, I think you've heard
the joke.
Speaker 3: It just gets up to the very beginning and realizes
that there's something wrong with the microphone and he sayss
just loud enough to be heard but not understood, there's
something wrong with this microphone. And the congregations responds and
also with you, which is only really funny if you're
kind of like because you know what their response.
Speaker 1: You know, I have this tick though that you know,
because I like Star Wars and whenever it's like.
Speaker 2: May the Force be with you, I always want to go.
Speaker 3: And also, yeah, those calls and responses get ingrained in you,
and there's a lot of them.
Speaker 1: The one thing that I liked about Catholic mass though,
was that as a kid, like I had, I had
a a you know, a very analytical brain, and so
like I was able, like after a few of the masses,
I was able to figure out the routine right, right,
And so I knew the second time we went to
our knees and prayed, we were almost out of church,
and so like I would just be it would be
like nails on the talkboard until we got to that
second time we knelt down. And then once we did that,
I'm like home stretch home strippers to get the funk
out of.
Speaker 3: Here and whatever you your father, don't take too long after.
Speaker 4: Communion, We're done. Time to go.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 10: Yeah, Well I was an ultra boy too, and I
was primarily an ultra boy because it was less boring
than setting in the po uh yeah, because you had
to get up and do stuff, but you also had
to be you know, a lot less obnoxious up up
top there where everyone can see you.
Speaker 1: Uh So, just we do have somebody in the queue
over here on a call a call in, we don't
have anybody over there on TikTok. If you are on
TikTok and you disagree with the atheist position, or you
disagree with secular humanism, or if you think that church
needs to be deeply integrated into the state, then do
request up.
Speaker 2: We would love to talk to you, but right.
Speaker 1: Now we are going to get to and over there
on Colin's studio.
Speaker 2: Uh, welcome up and how are you doing?
Speaker 11: I'm fine. How are you guys today?
Speaker 2: Doing pretty good?
Speaker 4: Yep?
Speaker 11: I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: Oh, I was just asking what you were wanted to
talk about today.
Speaker 12: Well, I did call in on one topic regarding the
last call, but you guys were talking so much about
Catholicism and I felt like it was the story of
my life.
Speaker 11: I grew up in a very Catholic bubble growing.
Speaker 3: Up, I.
Speaker 11: Mean large family. I had nine siblings. We were all
named after saints. I don't even know what saints.
Speaker 13: Are about anyway, or where they come from or how
they seem to be because I supposedly, you know, my
name Anne was supposed to be after Saint Anne, but
I don't know that she even existed. And this is
only something I've only been recently thinking about, you know,
from all.
Speaker 11: These shows and I think, who are these saints? Where'd
they come from? Were they real?
Speaker 4: Those are really good questions.
Speaker 3: And to make it even weirder, it's only the Roman
Catholic Church that does it. The Eastern Orthodox, Russian Orthodox,
and the Coptics don't do it.
Speaker 4: It's only the Roman Catholics that that have the whole
saint thing.
Speaker 3: And the whole intercession of saints where you pray to
a saint to go talk to God, you know about something.
Is is kind of weird too, But yeah, I don't know,
I should really look into that because that might be
an interesting story, is to figure out when why the
Catholic Church puts emphasis on on these saints saint to folks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know that they just recently inducted in a
the first gen Z saints and uh, you know, honestly,
the saints when that whenever, whenever somebody gets sainted or whatnot,
it seems really weird because like they have to verify
miracles that happen after their deaths, right, and so it's real.
It's really odd to me how they can verify that,
because it's always like, oh, well I had a sliver
of his shirt and we were like hey, please heal
this person.
Speaker 2: And then the person got healed.
Speaker 1: It's like no, no, no, they just took tail and all
and yeah they're fine now. But I mean, it's not
a miracle. That's just something that we understand. You just
attach it to this object and everything. It's it's actually
quite weird, like the whole saint part. But that's also
why there are some people out there that say that
Catholics aren't Christian because of well, they worship you know, Mary,
or they pray to Mary, but they also pray to
the other saints.
Speaker 11: That sounds like my mom. You know, if you're having
a problem, she'll tell you to pray to this saint
or that saint, you know, whichever one is the patron
saint of whatever. Mom I asked her one time, my
mom ever prayed directly to God. Yeah, sometimes, Okay, I
don't I don't.
Speaker 14: Understand why these middle men are in there.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I can here with a lot of people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a that's a good question. I mean, I don't.
Speaker 14: Go ahead and sorry, well, none of them are in
the Bible, right, you know, there are all people who
lived after the Bible and lived supposedly exemplary lives.
Speaker 3: Of some kind and therefore might have an end with
God that normal people don't have.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and and they can do like that, they can
do things, uh you know what. They can heal people,
that can help people, they protect people, and it's like
you've got to do I think I think it's like
three they got to do three miracles after they die
in order for you to be sainted. And it's got
to be verified by you know, the Pope guy in
order for in order for you to be actually be
considered a saint.
Speaker 2: I mean, honestly, it's all.
Speaker 1: It's all magical musical chairs at this point as far
as like the Catholic religion goes like it, it literally
is just I feel like with the Catholic Church, it's
just a bunch of make it up as you go
because like they've changed on so many different positions.
Speaker 2: It's just kind of crazy.
Speaker 11: Yeah, how long did it take them to finally agree
that the earth revolves around the sun.
Speaker 3: It depends on what, depends on who you ask. Because
there are people who say that the Church didn't lock
up Galileo because he said that the sun was the
center of the solar system, but because he said God.
Speaker 4: Wasn't part of it.
Speaker 3: And that kind of rings true because there are some
people for Galileo who kind of said the same thing,
who are also soun centricists.
Speaker 4: But I think they did the work that Galileo did.
Speaker 3: But I think it depends on who you ask and
how much the church is trying to cover up their
original position. And you also have a room of the
church is huge, right, so it also probably depends on
which priest you asked m.
Speaker 4: And if you're going to ask the pope.
Speaker 3: There was a period of time when there were seven
popes in France hello or eight pots, I forget how many.
There's more than there was more than one, and they
were fighting over which one is the real one.
Speaker 1: I don't know if y'all want to hear this kind
of disgusting fact that I know because I went to
Rome and my wife looked up facts about Rome. But
there's actually at you know, Trevi Fountain over there in Rome.
There's actually a building that's like an old bank or
something like that. But they've got like the Hearts of
seven Posts stored in there or something. I could I
could look it up real quick, but yeah, they they
apparently have preserved the hearts of a bunch of popes
and and and I guess mason jars or something. I
don't know what they use over there in Rome, but yeah,
I could probably find that out real quick. But it's
just it's it's it's a little crazy what they what
they hold sentimental value with.
Speaker 4: And they're probably not even the real the real hearts either.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 3: The church is really notorious for promoting relics that aren't
really relics for various and assorted reasons, mostly to do
with money.
Speaker 4: And power.
Speaker 1: Well us, oh go ahead, sorry, I keep interrupting you.
Speaker 11: Well, well about the thinking about the hearts. That made
me think about the communion. H you know, yeat bread
and that's supposed to be jesus Is body, and get
a little wine and that's supposed to be drinking his blood.
Speaker 3: Like I don't know, literal body of Christ to the
literal literal blood of Christ. By the way, as in,
there should be a DNA the bread should go from
bread DNA to human DNA.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I got an update. I got an update
about that. So it's actually a church. There's a church
across from Treve Fountain in the church is called Sante
Vincenzo e Anastasio Chavi Treve and the best supported count
is actually twenty two pope hearts that are preserved there
from Sixtus the fifth to Leo the thirteenth. Fun fun
fact for this Sunday Fun Fact Sunday.
Speaker 4: And how many of them are are the real heart?
Speaker 11: That is a pretty fun fact.
Speaker 14: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I know that you called in to talk
about the pronouns issue. Did you want to say your
piece on the pronouns stuff too?
Speaker 11: Yeah, I just you know, I listened to quite a
few of these shows, and I'm not young. I'm fifty eight,
so I know I have more years behind me than
ahead of me. But I know that, you know, while
I'm still here, you've got to keep up with the changes.
And I have no problem with that. And I'm not
like doing it because I have to. I'm doing because
I really don't have a problem with that. But I
seem to have a problem when people complain about having
to use pronouns, having to give pronouns like what like,
what is the big deal? I mean, I have seen
some epic arguments on some of these shows over will
not get pronouns.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's because Jesus taught to be intolerant
and not to judge, and to judge people whenever possible,
and to be as judgmental as possible, and that the
Christians just following. Oh wait, no, it's because they don't
read the freaking Bible.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 3: People will say Catholics don't read the Bible. But I
will say, if you go to Mass every day every
three years, you're read the entire Bible by bit, but
you will have read the entire Bible. So that's not
entirely true. They don't read it. It's read to them.
But because they don't read the Bible themselves, and they
think it has all the same prejudices they do. And
then they hear some stupid apologetic preacher who says God
didn't make Adam and Steve, completely ignoring the fact that
canon able were brothers and the only woman that existed
was Mom. Right, they forget these things and they won't
to argue about it. And I'll go, well, no, the
Bible says there were cities, okay, but you can't have
it both ways, right, and so you can't have the
first family in cities. Well, the Bible didn't cover all
the people that Oudam and Eve had to make the cities.
Speaker 4: It's like, mmm, so he was a clown car.
Speaker 3: I don't get that either, So, you know, literally, I
think that's where it is. They don't read their freaking
Bible and they don't understand it, and so they listen
to preachers who are supposed to know it.
Speaker 4: And go from there.
Speaker 3: And you have preachers who are just are bigots and
use the Bible to excuse their bigotry.
Speaker 11: Yeah. Yeah, the Bible seems like it can be used
for all kinds of things.
Speaker 3: But like any any any type of prose, and I
don't consider scientific papers to be pros. It's a whole
different genre of writing. But pros can always be interpreted
in multiple ways. That's part of the problem teaching by parables.
It works in a limited way, but you always have
to make sure you've got a really solid explanation of
what you mean by the parable and how it is
applying to whatever it is you're talking about, And we
don't always get that. So, you know, it just doesn't
make any sense to accept a collection of sixty six
stories or sixty eight or however many you want to
call it as literal fact when it's open to interpretation.
Speaker 11: Well, I think sometimes a constitution is that way too, and.
Speaker 3: The constitution's much more narrowly written. Yeah, the constitutions written
by people who understand you know that they didn't. That
was written by people who at least had an understanding
that they needed to write precisely. And so you're taking
actions and trying to figure out how those actions fit
under a set of laws. The law does try to
be precise, and sometimes in that precision it stops being
about what we want it to be.
Speaker 11: Yeah, yeah, I know. I just think some people twist
the constitution or something mm hmm, or try to Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean there are people who will tell you
that the passages in the Bible about treating the foreigners
among you with respect and decency were about legal foreigners.
And it's like, so, where was this country's borders and
how do they protect those borders, and how do they people?
You know, how did you know you were coming in?
How do you know they were here illegally? Because at
that time all paperwork could be faked. Right, you go
look at some of the ways that traders tried to
keep track of what they were selling and how much
they were selling it for across a trade route. There's
some pretty sophisticated ways to do it, and they only
did that because of forgery and crime. And how how
do you how do you know that somebody is actually
a citizen of your country? If you don't, we have
a hard time with that. Our modern ideas get forged
all the time. How are you doing that when you
have Clay taberts and papyrus?
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, that was much easier, much easier today than
it was back then.
Speaker 3: So you know, you have people interpreting all kinds of
things in terms of what they know today, and you
can't do that.
Speaker 4: So you got to look at what they knew at
the time.
Speaker 7: M okay, all right.
Speaker 1: So and before we let you go, I was going
to ask you because I asked Jim this a second ago,
and I like hearing these kinds of things being answered
by fellow atheists. But how integral was the Easter Week
or the Easter celebrations and everything like that.
Speaker 2: How integral was that for you growing up?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 11: Yeah, my mom was all about that. And there was
the Seven Stations of the Cross, although I can't remember
how all that went. I was like half paying attention.
I just wanted to grow up and not have to
go to church anymore.
Speaker 8: At that point, No said.
Speaker 2: In here like I don't. I don't remember much of
it either.
Speaker 1: I know that he gets whipped a lot, and then
there's this one point where he like he does that
whole forest gump wipes his face and he comes away
with the face on the on the rag kind of thing, and.
Speaker 2: Then he falls like three times.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, what does his name take up the cross?
Speaker 4: Because he can't pick it up anymore.
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 11: I forgot all about that. It's been so long. Wow.
Speaker 8: I mean you have to do the.
Speaker 11: Fish on Friday every you know, every Lent and everything.
Speaker 2: Oh you know.
Speaker 1: Another fun fact and I heard this from my wife,
but the reason why McDonald's starts up their whole filet
of fish thing or somebody is like right around Lent
time so that Catholics can actually get something for McDonald's.
Speaker 4: Yep.
Speaker 11: Yeah, I think a lot of the fast food places
do that, because I do seem to see a lot
of ads for fast food places around this time of
year doing a fish. But I think my mom had
have fish every Friday, not just during Lent.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 11: Yeah, yeah, she was old school Catholic, so it was
all in Latin.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, pre Second Vatican.
Speaker 3: Okay, that is really old school.
Speaker 11: Yeah so that's yeah, that's kind of how I grew
up Catholic, really cat.
Speaker 12: I even remember, just real.
Speaker 11: Quick, we we had a Methodist church behind our house,
behind our backyard, and then there was a wall in
the parking lot for the church. And one time I
asked my mom, I said, Mom, why do we drive
a mile and a half up the road to go
to that church when there's just one around the corner.
I'll have to do is walk around the corner to
go there. And she goes, well, it's a Methodist church.
And I'm like, oh, okay, yeah, yeah, that kind of
freaked me out. Oh okay. Even but at that point
I wasn't even aware there was other religions. I mean,
I was in a very Catholic bubble, yeah growing up,
and Methodist is just another sect of Christianity, yep.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: And they will fight, yeah, they will fight over which
version of there, which version is correct?
Speaker 3: And it just makes no sense, you know, come to
blows over it, and you know, go to war over it.
Speaker 4: You know how many European wars were caused by that.
Speaker 3: The Irish problem was primarily you know, which version of
Christianity was true.
Speaker 4: We do that all the time. If God cared, he'd stop.
Speaker 3: It, right, if he existed, he would, if you just
had any care, he'd stop it.
Speaker 11: So well, yeah, I think if there was a God,
then he or she or they or it would would
have just said and everyone would just know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, just like you know that people exist
by you know, oh, look, they're there.
Speaker 2: You would think if you were.
Speaker 1: A smart god, you know, an omniscient one. Dare I say,
you would think that, you know, just doing that would
be better than you know, causing all these wars and
all this other stuff that you know has been a problem.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Or write the Bible in such a way that it
is less interpretable. Yeah, you know, one story of just
one story of the flood, you know, things like that,
minor little things evidence the Exodus happened.
Speaker 11: Yeah. Yeah, I mean because he, if there's a guy,
he's either just letting all this happen or he's too
incompetent to stop.
Speaker 8: It, right Yeah.
Speaker 11: Yeah, but yeah, until then, I see no reason to
believe there's one at all, you know, for any reason.
Speaker 4: So yeah, the Bible is ridiculous.
Speaker 11: Yeah, it is. Yeah, and I'm learning a lot more
about it watching these shows.
Speaker 4: Well, go find Godless Engineer's channel.
Speaker 3: He does a pretty good job, especially on the ye.
Speaker 11: Chanel. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh good, awesome.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean I know that I'm primarily just putting up
like clips of like conversations and everything that I have,
but you know, I definitely appreciate you doing that.
Speaker 11: Oh yeah, yeah, well yeah, yeah, I do enjoy watching
your videos.
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: And you know, I bet that you're already subscribed to
the atheist community of Austin here, but we've also got
Talk Heathen over here as well and Truth Wanted. So
there's there's a lot of shows out there for you know,
you to consume, and we Truth Wanted.
Speaker 2: Is a fun show.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you do much on Friday nights,
but it's a it's a pretty fun show.
Speaker 2: It's kind of different.
Speaker 3: It does more than just Christian. Yeah, we do more
than just does God exist. We also get into all
the different supernatural claims and aliens and the whole nine yards.
Speaker 11: Okay, I have to check that one out. I'm very
familiar with Talk even so, but I'm going to have
to check truth wanted out. There's there's a lot of
channels popping up, so yeah, oh yeah, yeah, but this
one was like a year ago and it was all
old stuff, all right.
Speaker 2: And well, it was great talking to you.
Speaker 1: I'm glad that we could, uh, you know, kind of
connect on on the whole Catholic thing. I know that
there's a lot of recovering Catholics out there, and and
do you have the same thing that Jim and I
do when it's like if I were to say to you,
may the Force be with you, what's your automatic response.
Speaker 11: And also with you?
Speaker 8: There you go.
Speaker 1: That's how you know, That's how you know you're working
with a real recovering.
Speaker 4: And it is recovering.
Speaker 11: A second though, I think I've buried it or something.
Speaker 2: And I dug it up.
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry about that, all.
Speaker 2: Right, and the Lord, yeah exactly.
Speaker 1: Uh, And it was great talking to you, and I
hope you'll call in in the future if you have
any other questions.
Speaker 2: And I hope you have a good rest of your
day and.
Speaker 1: A great Holy Week where we're going to sacrifice uh
you know Jesus on Friday.
Speaker 11: Yeah. Yeah, Well, Jesus is last weekend. Yeah, yeah, all.
Speaker 1: Right, and well I'm gonna drop you down right now,
but I hope you have a great day.
Speaker 11: Okay, all right, you too, bye, all.
Speaker 2: Right bye, there we go. All right.
Speaker 1: Well, I think that's kind of a wrap for our
show here. And I don't think that we did we
get any super chants today.
Speaker 2: I don't see any super chants.
Speaker 4: I don't think.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no super chance.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: They could have made it say almost anything, as long
as it's not against our policy, we'd be willing to
say it.
Speaker 4: So nobody wanted to say something silly.
Speaker 7: I know.
Speaker 1: I usually, you know, we get people wanting us to
say some silly shit, but we didn't get that today.
But I do want to bring up our backup post Kelly.
Hey there, Kelly, how you doing. Oh Kelly, Kelly is muted.
Speaker 15: Yep, I was. I haven't done that in a long
time too.
Speaker 6: But just as you were introducing me to come up,
we got a super chat.
Speaker 1: Oh I saw that May the Force be with you,
ann I think is what it said, right.
Speaker 15: Yeah, yeah, that was awesome.
Speaker 6: So yeah, I thought, actually I love Dan's call. I
thought it was really refreshing and just great I really
enjoyed it. You were mentioning all the wars in Europe,
and I had a list just off the top of
my head, because you know me, I love history in
Trivia Thirty Years War, French Wars and religion, the Northern Crusades,
and everybody seems to forget about those, the Teutonic Knights
conquering Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia and the ri Conquista. I
mean there's hundreds of thousands of people, probably millions of
people that died in just four.
Speaker 15: Wars right there.
Speaker 6: So yeah, all caused by Christianity, all caused by Christianity.
Speaker 15: And I didn't even mention the.
Speaker 4: Crusades, right or the Concuistadors.
Speaker 6: Yeah, right, there you go. So I mean, well, so
go ahead, John Well.
Speaker 1: I was just gonna say, Kelly, something that I asked
Jim earlier, was you know about my statement that Christianity
does more harm than good. And I'm kind of curious
where you fall on that question.
Speaker 2: You know, it's really.
Speaker 6: Hard to tell because I know a bunch of old
women that have led their lives and good Catholics or
some of the good Protestants, and they really really believe
in Jesus and and a lot of them are alone
now and their life revolves around that and that's really
all they have. And I like, you know, there's a
there was a book by one of my favorite authors.
I'm not going to mention what it is, but they
find the body of Christ in it and they have
to decide what to do with it, and they're going
to show it to the world. Then they start thinking
about all the old ladies and how they're just going
to crush them, you know, and they decide not to
do it. So, I mean, it's kind of hard. It's
I think it probably throughout history has probably caused way
more harm, but it does do a little bit of
good for some people. So I as much as I
hate to admit that it is true.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I totally understand that aspect of it, that
you know, Christianity is good for some people out there.
But I guess my my position on it takes in
the entire history of Christianity, like what what is Christianity
set up for society? What what has its what has
been its real effect? And you know that's I guess
that's kind of where I find myself analyzing that particular question.
But I definitely value your input on that.
Speaker 15: You know, one of the things too.
Speaker 6: I was just thinking about it, and we get a
lot of calls on our on these shows about people
wondering about how we can still have morals without God,
So I think God, maybe Christianity is doing good for
those people too, because they're not going out and killing
and robbing and hurting people, so it might.
Speaker 15: Be doing more good than we actually realize.
Speaker 3: So yeah, the case a case could be made that,
you know, if if the only reason you're not doing
something most people would consider evil or immoral is because
you fear punishment, you're probably not fundamentally a good person.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would, I would. I would say that now,
but I would. I guess my reaction to that generally
is just that there are better ways to actually, you know,
cope with those kinds of situations as opposed to just
needing religion. I'm not saying that we should totally remove
religion from society or Christianity, you know, from society or anything,
but I definitely think that there's healthier ways to manage that,
like with you know, recovering from religion dot org or
any of those, any of those organizations out there that
are really geared towards helping people. I think that it
can really it can really help people out there and
in a more meaningful way than just throwing some Jesus
on them.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 15: Yeah, you know.
Speaker 6: But one thing also I need to do for both
you guys is thank you so much for mentioning truth Wander.
Speaker 15: As the host and producer of the show.
Speaker 6: I have to thank you so much for mentioning that,
and it is you know, of course I have to
say that.
Speaker 1: I well, I mean, I love Truth Wanted's variety, and
it's a nice break from just talking about how much
God sucks all the time.
Speaker 2: And those kinds of arguments.
Speaker 1: So I mean, it's it's definitely a nice nice shift
in in in topic.
Speaker 4: Thanks.
Speaker 15: Thanks, That's about all I have.
Speaker 6: So thanks for bringing me up and let me, you know,
contribute a little bit.
Speaker 15: I appreciate it. You guys are awesome.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no problem.
Speaker 11: Uh.
Speaker 1: We do have shows going on here at the Atheist
uh a c A the uh uh the Atheist Community
of Austin. Sorry, I totally stumbled on that for a second.
We we've got like Truth Wanted, we've also got uh
talk keithen uh and we'll be back at it next week,
well this coming Friday with Truth Wanted, and then next
week with uh uh with talk Keithen and the Atheist Experience.
So we really appreciate y'all tuning in today, spending your
afternoon with us, and I guess we will see all
you heathens later. Don't forget to stand up, use your voice,
and all that kind of good ship, y'all.
Speaker 6: Right ahead, peas die s.
Speaker 3: Har around you by walco.
Speaker 7: Ellen.
Speaker 2: Watch Talk ee Than Live Sundays at one pm Central.
Visit tiny dot c c slash y t t H
and
Speaker 6: Call into the show at five one two nine nine
one nine two four two, or connect to the show
online at tiny dot c c slash call th H