Speaker 1: This episode maintained content of a graphic nature, including descriptions
Speaker 1: of physical and sexual violence against adults, children, and animals.
Speaker 1: Listener discretion is advised. Hi.
Speaker 2: I'm Shannon. Hi I'm Tanya, and we are Crimes and Consequences,
Speaker 2: a hardcore true crime podcast. Hey Shannon, Hey Tanya, how
Speaker 2: are you?
Speaker 1: I am doing pretty good.
Speaker 2: How are you good? I did want to ask you
Speaker 2: a question. Yes, that's why I had to look it
Speaker 2: up before we started recording. You know, there's a new
Speaker 2: Keanu Reeves movie coming out. Have you seen the trailer
Speaker 2: for it? It's called only going to be in theaters
Speaker 2: the weekend I guess of the seventeenth, October seventeenth, and
Speaker 2: it's called Good Fortune. Seth Rogan's in it. Okay, premise
Speaker 2: looks like that Keano is playing a well meaning but
Speaker 2: an ept angel named Gabriel, and he meddles in the
Speaker 2: lives of struggling gig worker and a wealthy venture capitalist.
Speaker 2: And who's not.
Speaker 1: Sponsored, by the way, everyone, Oh, this is not sponsored.
Speaker 2: I wanted to see if you wanted to get tickets
Speaker 2: like you imagine, And since it's only going to be
Speaker 2: there for the weekend, and it looks so good. Let
Speaker 2: me see if I can look it up. But you
Speaker 2: can't put in anything, and I will go see it
Speaker 2: real same same.
Speaker 1: I love him. He's like just such a pure soul.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, He's like he's everything. He's your cool cousin, your
Speaker 2: sweet older brother, your sweet younger brother, your cool uncle
Speaker 2: son grandson. Now that I've reached Graham status, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: and I think Keanu is a little bit older than me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's so sweet, I know.
Speaker 2: Anyway, I'm gonna put that on the calendar for us.
Speaker 1: Awesome.
Speaker 2: All right, what do you got going on? How have
Speaker 2: you been?
Speaker 1: Oh, I've been really fine. I got Monday off. I'm excited.
Speaker 2: That is exciting. Any kind of that is nice.
Speaker 1: So it'll be a nice long weekend. So you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm doing anything fun. I know
Speaker 1: I mentioned that in our members only episode, But that's
Speaker 1: like the most exciting news I have coming off.
Speaker 2: This October. No, that's good. Well, I'm bringing a good
Speaker 2: story today. I'm gonna tell you. I can't wait. Do
Speaker 2: you remember the slender Man murders? Yes?
Speaker 1: I do.
Speaker 2: It's been a minute and I'm going to delve into
Speaker 2: this right away, and I'm gonna set the scene. Here
Speaker 2: we go. It's the woods, and the woods are quiet,
Speaker 2: too quiet for a Saturday morning in late May. And
Speaker 2: somewhere beyond the trees, the wind moves like a whisper
Speaker 2: through leaves, a faint rustle, a hint of life. Then
Speaker 2: a sound breaks the stillness. Shallow, breathing, wet and uneven.
Speaker 2: It's the sound of a little girl fighting to stay alive.
Speaker 2: When she's twelve years old. Her name is Peyton Lutner,
Speaker 2: and she's crawling through the dirt, her hands trembling, her
Speaker 2: shirt soaked in blood. Nineteen stab wounds decorate her body
Speaker 2: like a map of betrayal, each one carved by the
Speaker 2: hands of her two best friends. I trusted you, she whispered,
Speaker 2: and then I hate you. It's twenty fourteen and Wakeisha, Wisconsin.
Speaker 2: It's a quiet suburban community where horror does not happen,
Speaker 2: not here, not among children. But that morning, the unimaginable did.
Speaker 2: Peyton was supposed to be dead, left in the woods
Speaker 2: like a forgotten secret, her small body hididden beneath leaves.
Speaker 2: Her attackers, Morgan Geyser and in this a Weir, both
Speaker 2: just twelve, had already vanished walking down the highway toward
Speaker 2: what they believed was their next destination, the mansion of
Speaker 2: a mythical creature known only as slender Man. What began
Speaker 2: as a sleepover between friends would end in blood delusion
Speaker 2: and one of the most disturbing crimes ever committed by
Speaker 2: children in American history. Now, before that morning, nothing about
Speaker 2: these three girls seemed extraordinary. Peyton, or Bella, as her
Speaker 2: friends called her, was bright, kind, loved animals. She had
Speaker 2: a tender heart that believed in goodness even when it
Speaker 2: wasn't returned. Morgan Geyser, the ringleader, was quiet, artistic and imaginative,
Speaker 2: traits that hid the darkness blooming inside her mind. And
Speaker 2: as a weir, the new girl, awkward and lonely, was
Speaker 2: desperate for belonging. Together, they formed a triangle of innocence
Speaker 2: that would collapse under the weight of obsession. But to
Speaker 2: understand how this tragedy happened, you have to start where
Speaker 2: it all began. Not in Wakesha, Wisconsin, but on the Internet.
Speaker 2: Slenderband was never real. He was born on a forum
Speaker 2: called Something Awful back in two thousand and nine, the
Speaker 2: brainchild of a user named Victor Surge real name Eric
Speaker 2: Knudsen with a silent k. The contest that year challenged
Speaker 2: creators to edit normal photographs into something eerie and paranormal.
Speaker 2: Eric's obmission was simple. A tall, faceless man in a
Speaker 2: dark suit standing among children. The creature had no eyes,
Speaker 2: no mouth, no expression, just a blank white face. It
Speaker 2: was the kind of image that didn't need gore to
Speaker 2: be terrifying. It worked its way under your skin pro
Speaker 2: decisely because it could be real, and people loved it.
Speaker 2: Within days, other users added their own stories, photos, and
Speaker 2: supposed sightings. Slender Man became a legend, a digital myth,
Speaker 2: spreading like wildfire across forums, blogs and YouTube creepy pasta videos.
Speaker 2: The story was always the sting. He stalked, abducted, and
Speaker 2: traumatized children, appearing in the woods without warning, and the
Speaker 2: more you believed in him, the more power he supposedly
Speaker 2: had over you. For adults, it was harmless horror fiction,
Speaker 2: but for children, especially impressionable ones, it was something else entirely.
Speaker 2: By twenty twelve, slender Man had gone viral. He appeared
Speaker 2: in games like Slender the eight Pages, a simply yet
Speaker 2: terrifying concept where players wandered through the woods collecting pages
Speaker 2: while avoiding the faceless beings. Kids who couldn't download the
Speaker 2: game traded rumors and YouTube clips, whispering about the monster
Speaker 2: in the woods, and that is how Morgan Geyser discovered him.
Speaker 2: Morgan was eleven when she first stumbled across slender Man.
Speaker 2: At first, it was innocent curiosity, just another spooky story.
Speaker 2: But for Morgan, fiction and reality blurred quickly. She didn't
Speaker 2: just like slender Man. She believed in him. She read
Speaker 2: about his supposed proxies, his powers, his home deep in
Speaker 2: Wisconsin's Nicolete National Forest, a detail that would later take
Speaker 2: on shilling significance. Her mother, Angie, thought it was harmless.
Speaker 2: Angie later said, I wasn't concerned when I was her age.
Speaker 2: I was reading Stephen King. She thought her daughter's fascination
Speaker 2: was just an overactive imagination. What she didn't know was
Speaker 2: that Morgan's imagination wasn't just vivid, It was fractured. When
Speaker 2: Morgan watched Bambi as a child, she didn't cry like
Speaker 2: most kids did. She laughed, Run, Babby, Run, She'd shout.
Speaker 2: When Bambi's mother was shot, her mother remembered sitting there
Speaker 2: in a stun silence, realizing her daughter felt nothing, no empathy,
Speaker 2: no fear, just excitement. At the time, they didn't know
Speaker 2: what that meant. Years later, doctors would diagnose Morgan with
Speaker 2: early onset schizophrenia, a rare, a rare, devastating mental illness
Speaker 2: she likely inherited from her father. But at eleven, she
Speaker 2: was just a little girl who believed in monsters, and
Speaker 2: slender Man was about to become the most real thing
Speaker 2: in her world. Then came Anisa Wire. She was the
Speaker 2: new girl in Morgan's sixth grade class, shy and lonely
Speaker 2: and just as lost in online horror. When she found
Speaker 2: out that Morgan believed in slender Man, it was like
Speaker 2: finding a twin flame. The two bonded instantly, not over
Speaker 2: makeup or boys, but over a fictional murderer in the suit.
Speaker 2: Their friendship quickly became toxic, a shared delusion that grew
Speaker 2: in the shadows of the Internet. They spent hours reading
Speaker 2: Creepy Pasta's stories and watching slender Man videos, and the
Speaker 2: more they consumed, the more real it became. Peyton noticed
Speaker 2: the change. Her best friend was slipping away, talking less,
Speaker 2: laughing less, and spending all of her time with Anissa.
Speaker 2: The warmth that once connected them was replaced with cold obsession.
Speaker 2: Peyton didn't like slender Man. She told Morgan that it
Speaker 2: scared her, but Morgan brushed her off, calling her weak.
Speaker 2: That was when the kindness that made Peyton special became
Speaker 2: her downfall. She didn't want to abandon Morgan. She felt
Speaker 2: sorry for her, so she stayed loyal, trusting, and complete,
Speaker 2: unaware that her friend had already begun planning her death.
Speaker 2: The planning began in December of twenty thirteen. Morgan and
Speaker 2: Nanissa spent five months plotting the murder. They gave it
Speaker 2: code names. The knife was called quote unquote, cracker. The
Speaker 2: murder itself was called itch quote unquote, So when talking
Speaker 2: in public, they'd say things like we need to bring
Speaker 2: the cracker or when are we going to itch her?
Speaker 2: It sounds crazy, absurd, like something out of a child's imagination,
Speaker 2: but to them it was deadly serious. Their goal to
Speaker 2: become Slender Man's proxies. They believed if they killed someone,
Speaker 2: specifically Peyton, it would prove their loyalty and earn them
Speaker 2: a place in his mansion in the Nicolette National Forest.
Speaker 2: They even packed for the journey, granola bars, water and
Speaker 2: close stuffed in a backpack. They were twelve years old.
Speaker 2: The night before the attack May thirtieth, twenty thirteen seemed
Speaker 2: like any other sleepover. It was Morgan's twelfth birthday. So
Speaker 2: Morgan's a Gemini. Oh figure, I wanted to throw that out.
Speaker 1: That tracks, Yes, all of them exactly, semini listeners. My
Speaker 1: husband is a Gemini. Yes, the person I love the
Speaker 1: most besides my child night.
Speaker 2: So yes, that makes her a Gemini. So it's Morgan's
Speaker 2: twelfth birthday. And the girls went roller skating at Skateland, laughing,
Speaker 2: eating pizza, you know, do what kids do. To Peyton,
Speaker 2: it was just another night with her friends. She even
Speaker 2: brought her American Girl doll. Adorable. These kids are eleven. Yes, ruscious. Yes,
Speaker 2: I always wanted one of those.
Speaker 1: I mean I'm too old to like have had one
Speaker 1: as a child, I think, or yes, or my parents
Speaker 1: would have never spent American Girl money.
Speaker 2: Are you kidding me? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I know right, But when I had my daughter, I
Speaker 1: was hoping she'd want one.
Speaker 2: Of course she didn't, so that is I love that
Speaker 2: you can just customize them, you know, they're wonderful dolls. Yeah,
Speaker 2: if you can swing it. Morgan and Nissa had originally
Speaker 2: planned to kill her that night, to tape her mouth
Speaker 2: shut as she slept and stabber in the neck, but
Speaker 2: they were too tired, so they postponed it till the
Speaker 2: next morning, and when the sun rose over Wakesha the
Speaker 2: nightmare began. They started the day eating donuts and strawberries
Speaker 2: for breakfast. Morgan asked her mother if they could go
Speaker 2: to the park to play. She said, yes, of course
Speaker 2: she did. It was a beautiful Saturday, what could possibly
Speaker 2: go wrong. The girls walked toward David's Park, a quiet
Speaker 2: wooded area about a mile away. Along the way, Morgan
Speaker 2: lifted her jacket to show a Nissa the knife she'd
Speaker 2: taken from her kitchen, a five inch blade. Anissa nodded
Speaker 2: it was time. When they reached the park, they lured
Speaker 2: Peyton into the bathroom, telling her that they wanted to
Speaker 2: play hide and seek, and once inside, Anissa tried to
Speaker 2: slam Peyton's head into the concrete wall, hoping to knock
Speaker 2: her out, but Peyton fought back, screaming she was confused.
Speaker 2: Morgan hesitated, she couldn't do it, not yet, so they
Speaker 2: told Peyton they'd play hide and seek in the woods instead.
Speaker 2: Peyton followed them, trusting them because that's what friends, good
Speaker 2: friends do in the woods, the trees swallowed the sunlight
Speaker 2: and the girls walked deeper until the sound of the
Speaker 2: road disappeared. Lie down, Nissa told Peyton. She said it
Speaker 2: was to hide from the seekers, and Peyton obeyed. Lying
Speaker 2: on the ground, she didn't see Morgan pull the knife
Speaker 2: from her waistband Go ahead, Anissa whispered, I can't do it.
Speaker 2: Morgan said, then I'll tell you where to start, Anissa replied.
Speaker 2: Moments later, Morgan, I'm on top of Peyton whispered, I'm
Speaker 2: so sorry, and began stabbing nineteen times. Two wounds hit
Speaker 2: major organs, One sliced her liver and another came within
Speaker 2: a hair's width of her heart. Peyton screamed, begging them
Speaker 2: to stop, but they didn't, and when it was over,
Speaker 2: she gasped, I trusted you. I hate you. Anisad told
Speaker 2: her to lay still, that they were going to go
Speaker 2: get help, but that was a lie. They left her
Speaker 2: there to die. Peyton somehow didn't. She crawled out of
Speaker 2: the woods, dragging herself across the dirt until she reached
Speaker 2: a nearby bike path, and that's where A man named
Speaker 2: Greg Steinberg found her. It was nine fifty am. He
Speaker 2: called nine one one immediately. She's bleeding everywhere, he told
Speaker 2: the dispatcher. When asked who did it, Peyton whispered, my
Speaker 2: best friend. When first responders arrived, they thought they were
Speaker 2: looking at a murder scene. Peyton's wounds were so deep
Speaker 2: her white shirt had turned crimson, Her hair clung to
Speaker 2: her face, and her skin was chalk pale, almost translucent.
Speaker 2: She was in shock, barely breathing, whispering that she had
Speaker 2: been stabbed by two friends. Even then, in agony, she
Speaker 2: refused to let them die for her mistake. Don't blame them,
Speaker 2: she told the paramedics. They didn't mean it, but they did.
Speaker 2: The paramedics rushed her to pro Health Jakisha Memorial Hospital. There,
Speaker 2: trauma surgeons performed a six hour surgery. One stab woman
Speaker 2: would miss her heart by less than the width of
Speaker 2: a human hair. Her doctor later said, if it had
Speaker 2: gone a fraction deeper, she wouldn't have made it. And
Speaker 2: while Peyton was fighting for her life, Morgan and Anissa
Speaker 2: were walking. They treked down the highway covered in dirt,
Speaker 2: their clothes smeared with blood, believing that They were on
Speaker 2: their way to slender Man's mansion, a place they thought
Speaker 2: was hidden deep within Nicolette National Forests, about three hours north.
Speaker 2: Police found them five hours later. They were trudging along
Speaker 2: inter State ninety four carrying a backpack filled with Granada bars,
Speaker 2: water bottles, extra clothes, and the five inch kitchen knife.
Speaker 2: When the officers stopped them, neither girl resisted. Morgan's first
Speaker 2: question was is she dead? When the officer told her
Speaker 2: he didn't know, Morgan calmly said, I was just wondering.
Speaker 2: They were both taken to the Wakesha Police Department for questioning,
Speaker 2: and what came out in those interrogation rooms would haunt
Speaker 2: even the most seasoned detectives. Morgan sat slouched in a
Speaker 2: small chair, wearing pink leggings and a hoodie. Her hair
Speaker 2: was tangled and her voice was quiet, almost childlike. The
Speaker 2: detective began gently asking what happened. Morgan shrugged. We had
Speaker 2: to do it, She said. Why did you have to
Speaker 2: do it? She replied, because we had to protect our
Speaker 2: families from slender Man. He watches you, he can read
Speaker 2: your mind. He told us we had to prove ourselves.
Speaker 2: She said it like she was explaining the rules of
Speaker 2: a game. When asked how she felt during the attack,
Speaker 2: Morgan replied, it was weird. I felt nothing. I thought
Speaker 2: I would, but I didn't. I felt nothing. The detective
Speaker 2: asked how she could stab her best friend. Morgan tilted
Speaker 2: her head and said, people who trust you become very gullible.
Speaker 2: We led her there and tricked her, and then she giggled,
Speaker 2: and it was a sound that chills you to the core.
Speaker 2: Innocent on the surface, but empty underneath. Now Anissa's interrogation
Speaker 2: in the next room, Nissa broke down almost immediately. Tears
Speaker 2: streamed down her face as she tried to explain something
Speaker 2: that made no sense. Slender Man told us to do it.
Speaker 2: She said, if we didn't, he would kill our families.
Speaker 2: And she described how they believed Slenderband lived in a
Speaker 2: mansion in the woods, that after they killed Peyton, they
Speaker 2: were supposed to walk there and become his servants. She
Speaker 2: told detectives about the code words cracker for knife, itch
Speaker 2: for killing. They'd use them in class during lunch, whispering
Speaker 2: their plan in plain sight, and Nissa admitted she didn't
Speaker 2: stab Peyton. That was Morgan's job, but she said that
Speaker 2: she was the one who told Morgan to start. I said,
Speaker 2: go ballistic, go crazy at one point, and Nissa said
Speaker 2: something so bizarre that detectives later said they stopped writing
Speaker 2: for a moment. She said, I didn't want to, but
Speaker 2: Slenderman said that he could teleport, and he watches you
Speaker 2: all the time. You can't hide from him. The detective asked,
Speaker 2: do you really believe he's real? And Nissa nodded, I've
Speaker 2: seen him in my dreams. When investigators searched Morgan's bedroom,
Speaker 2: they found notebooks filled with drawings of slender Man, tall faced,
Speaker 2: lik tentacled, alongside scribbled words he watches, I want to
Speaker 2: be like you and killed to please. There were mutilated dolls,
Speaker 2: Internet searches for how to get away with murder and
Speaker 2: what kind of insane am I? It was honestly enough
Speaker 2: to chill any parents alive? Yeah, serious, Tully, Draja dropping. Meanwhile,
Speaker 2: Peyton survived. When she woke up after surgery, her first
Speaker 2: question to police was did they catch them? She couldn't talk,
Speaker 2: so she wrote Morgan and Annissa's name on the whiteboard.
Speaker 2: Doctors called her recovery a miracle. Her mother described her
Speaker 2: as the bravest kid I've ever seen, but the physical
Speaker 2: wounds were nothing compared to the emotional ones. She had nightmares, flashbacks,
Speaker 2: and panic attacks for years, as you can imagine, oh
Speaker 2: wat For months, she slept with scissors under her pillow.
Speaker 2: She couldn't walk alone, She couldn't trust anyone. Her mother
Speaker 2: said she lost more than blood that day, she lost
Speaker 2: her innocence. Both Morgan and Anissa were charged as adults
Speaker 2: with first degree intentional homicide. The decision shocked many. They
Speaker 2: were twelve, They couldn't drive, couldn't vote, but under Wisconsin law,
Speaker 2: attempted murder automatically triggers adult court. Their mugshots look like
Speaker 2: yearbook photos, pigtails, baby fat, vacant eyes. Neither seemed to
Speaker 2: understand the gravity of what they've done. The trials the
Speaker 2: legal process dragged on for years. Morgan was eventually diagnosed
Speaker 2: with early onset schizophrenia, the same illness her father suffered from.
Speaker 2: Experts testified she heard voices, saw hallucination, saw hallucinations, and
Speaker 2: truly believed slender Man was real. Anissa was diagnosed with
Speaker 2: delusional disorder, and while she didn't suffer hallucinations, she was
Speaker 2: so psychologically dependent on Morgan that she adopted her beliefs entirely.
Speaker 2: Both girls were found not guilty by reason of mental
Speaker 2: disease or defect in twenty seventeen Morgan. In twenty seventeen,
Speaker 2: Morgan was sentenced to up to forty years in a
Speaker 2: mental health facility, the Winnebagel the Winnebago Mental Health Institute
Speaker 2: in Oshkosh, Wisconsin. Annisa received twenty five years, with a
Speaker 2: minimum of three before possible release. During sentencing, Peyton's mother
Speaker 2: spoke through tears. Our daughter slept with scissors for years.
Speaker 2: She looks over her shoulder. What they what they did,
Speaker 2: can't be undone. Morgan's mother, Angie, wept two. I love
Speaker 2: my daughter, but I am so sorry, she said, for Peyton,
Speaker 2: for everyone in the aftermath. Anisaware was released in twenty
Speaker 2: twenty one under strict supervision. Her condition includes GPS tracking
Speaker 2: therapy and no contact with Morgan or Peyton. Morgan remains
Speaker 2: institutionalized though her attorney. Though her attorneys continue to petition
Speaker 2: for periodic reviews. Both now live as adults, young women
Speaker 2: shaped by an act so horrifying it nearly defies belief. Peyton,
Speaker 2: on the other hand, survived not only the knife but
Speaker 2: the trauma. In a two thousand and nineteen interview, she said,
Speaker 2: I still sleep with my door locked, but I'm stronger now.
Speaker 2: What happened to me made me who I am by
Speaker 2: twenty twenty. By twenty twenty, she was a senior in
Speaker 2: high school, bright grounded, determined to go into medicine. She
Speaker 2: said the attack inspired her to help others survive the impossible,
Speaker 2: and her words were simple but powerful. I'll forgive them,
Speaker 2: but I'll never forget. The slender Man stabbing wasn't just
Speaker 2: a cry, it was a mirror. It showed how imagination,
Speaker 2: when mixed with mental illness and isolation, can become deadly.
Speaker 2: It exposed the dark side of internet mythology, how something
Speaker 2: created for entertainment could spiral into obsession, delusion, and violence.
Speaker 2: But at the center of it all is one truth.
Speaker 2: A twelve year old girl crawled out of the woods
Speaker 2: that day and lived, and that survival, as brutal as
Speaker 2: it came, is what defines this story. Wow.
Speaker 1: Incredible, Yeah, that story was I remember when this happened
Speaker 1: because I believe sod Or your daughter around the same
Speaker 1: age as these girls. Yes, and I know my daughter
Speaker 1: knew who Slenderman was. Did yours. No, she no, Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I know, like I remember hearing the creepy pasta
Speaker 1: stuff and whatever, but yeah, that's crazy. I didn't know
Speaker 1: all the details about it. So Anissa got out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she was released in like under very strict supervision
Speaker 2: with her, you know, like the mental to just just
Speaker 2: totally believe what someone else believes in that delusional and
Speaker 2: now their thoughts become your thoughts. Right, that's really horrible. Yes,
Speaker 2: when the originating thoughts are so toxic, it's so self destructive. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 2: very easy. You're only gonna, you know, destroy yourselves. It
Speaker 2: was just incredible the early onsets because Sophrana frenia. I
Speaker 2: don't know why I struggle with that word. Okay, schizophrenia,
Speaker 2: you know, and to be I've really never heard of
Speaker 2: somebody who has been found ments. I don't really think
Speaker 2: of a can't think of anything where it pops out
Speaker 2: of my head. It's like, oh, they're institutionalized. Oh who
Speaker 2: is it who attempted Reagan?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Hinkley, Hinkley.
Speaker 2: Is he still in?
Speaker 1: I think he might be out? I think yeah, I
Speaker 1: think they've let him out in recent years.
Speaker 2: He must be under supervis I can't imagine someonere like that,
Speaker 2: living alone by himself.
Speaker 1: Right, right. No, I think we did one other story
Speaker 1: a really long time ago, and I remember that person,
Speaker 1: the perpetrator was hospitalized you know, okay, due to mental illness.
Speaker 1: But you're right, we've done some We've done some crazy
Speaker 1: ass stories, like the most insane, disgusting, horrendous stories, and
Speaker 1: most of them are not found you know, mentally insane.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they're all yeah, they're all found pretty much competent.
Speaker 1: I mean, because it's a defense. I think they get
Speaker 1: to use the lot. But you know how hard it
Speaker 1: is to prove that someone doesn't understand the gravity of
Speaker 1: what they're doing when they're doing it. Like, to me,
Speaker 1: that's almost that's truly. Yeah, yeah, that's trying to prove
Speaker 1: like you know, there's a Santa Claus or something to me,
Speaker 1: like like the trying to prove it is really difficult.
Speaker 1: The burden is so high to try and prove it.
Speaker 1: It's and that's why.
Speaker 2: And it seems like courts will wait, you know what
Speaker 2: I'm saying, like, oh, she's not competent to stand trial,
Speaker 2: and then a month later he's competent.
Speaker 1: He's competent. Yeah, exactly, like, okay, let's get let's get
Speaker 1: some more evaluation done until one says he's he's not
Speaker 1: he's competent, right, yeah, they wait, Wow, I hope that
Speaker 1: Morgan is getting some.
Speaker 2: Whatever hell there is for that. Yes, anfe place is safe,
Speaker 2: but an affects so many lives. Her mom, angie, she's devastated.
Speaker 2: I can Yeah, your own child does something awful, and
Speaker 2: there's just like that mother love, but then there's mother
Speaker 2: love for the people that they've hurt, so right, Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I'm sure her mother thinks like, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe if I would have, you know, saw the signs
Speaker 1: to me, that's what I would think, right that if
Speaker 1: my child has early on set schizophrenia, you know, oh
Speaker 1: maybe I should have seen the signs there, like the
Speaker 1: Bambi story, right, But you kind of file that away
Speaker 1: like huh, yeah, you think maybe your kid is like
Speaker 1: a weird kid or something, right, you just like you're
Speaker 1: average a weird kid. But yeah, wow.
Speaker 2: You know what and it's not even like exactly there's
Speaker 2: nothing you don't know this is coming. I know, like
Speaker 2: growing up with my mom, like she would use the
Speaker 2: lay with I love her, but my gud when I
Speaker 2: come home from school and all of my drawers in
Speaker 2: my closet has been flipped ye, like it's a like
Speaker 2: a prison. And my mom's like, oh, you didn't put
Speaker 2: your your your shirts away nicely, so now you can
Speaker 2: put everything away. No, you were going through my shit. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so you would have found my mutilated dollas and my
Speaker 2: because that woman would go through everything, as you know
Speaker 2: moms canon do, right, But so I couldn't keep any
Speaker 2: I couldn't keep any drawings. My god. She found my
Speaker 2: diary when I was yeah, I think I was about
Speaker 2: eleven twelve, and I had started using saucy spicy words
Speaker 2: like you know, Derek's a dick, and actually writing out
Speaker 2: the word dick seemed very woot ass all. And my
Speaker 2: mom found it and she's all like, oh, deck's a deck,
Speaker 2: And I thought, I'm never writing anything down again. I
Speaker 2: just recently started journaling, so you know, it takes about
Speaker 2: forty five years.
Speaker 1: I know. I remember I got I got the worst
Speaker 1: banking of my life, well, one of the worst bankings
Speaker 1: of my life. I used to go to Sunday school
Speaker 1: and I was probably like nine, and the Sunday school
Speaker 1: bus would come pick me up like my parents wouldn't
Speaker 1: go to school with like go to church with me.
Speaker 1: And it was this church that was crossed the highway
Speaker 1: and the Sunday school bus would come pick me up.
Speaker 1: I would have to stay for the sermon and then
Speaker 1: it would drop me back off at home. Okay, great,
Speaker 1: Well one day I brought like a cousin with me,
Speaker 1: and you know, the sermons are boring. No nine year
Speaker 1: old wants to sit through whatever they were talking about,
Speaker 1: so he so I had a little purse and I
Speaker 1: would have like connect the dots or whatever little booklets
Speaker 1: you know of games. Well, we started thinking up every
Speaker 1: swear word we could think of church, and I left
Speaker 1: it in my purse apparently, and when I came home
Speaker 1: from school when my parents found it, my dad had
Speaker 1: it taped on a ping pong paddle and I got
Speaker 1: my ass when that ping pong pand ping pong paddle.
Speaker 2: And as a classic boomer move, they got to set
Speaker 2: the fear of God, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: And I don't remember like what they said, but I
Speaker 1: remember like, oh, oh, you're making.
Speaker 2: Like, oh, is this what you're what we're sending you
Speaker 2: a church for? No, you're sending me to church, don't
Speaker 2: you dare make it seem like it's a blessing. You're
Speaker 2: sending me to church. You want me out of your hair.
Speaker 2: This is classic Boomer guarantee. Send you on a butt.
Speaker 2: I love it that you come home. And Tanya. Let
Speaker 2: me tell you guys, she's like the sweetest kid. He's
Speaker 2: like the best daughter you could possibly ask for, wonderful student.
Speaker 2: Give her of the community volunteerism at nine years old?
Speaker 2: At nine years old.
Speaker 1: Yes, I got my ass beat.
Speaker 2: That is so and it's not funny. It's only funny
Speaker 2: because we're gen X. I would never be like what
Speaker 2: they do to you.
Speaker 1: I never beat my child. Yeah. I don't even think
Speaker 1: she ever got spanked once. So I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not advocating beating your kid. No, this is you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: gen X, we all got our.
Speaker 2: Yeah for sure.
Speaker 1: I mean, my goodness, that was the worst of the treatment.
Speaker 2: I mean, yes, But what a difference between these girls
Speaker 2: and the access to just unable to decipher realism from fantasy?
Speaker 1: Right? Actually, oh, just craziness, so so much Shannon for that.
Speaker 1: Before we go, if everyone could hit the subscriber follow
Speaker 1: button on whatever app you're listening to, please visit our
Speaker 1: website if you want to find out more, we really
Speaker 1: need to update that. It's Crimes Andconsequences dot com. Also,
Speaker 1: if you'd like to join our Patreon, it's patreon dot
Speaker 1: com slash TNT Crimes. We can get extra episodes that
Speaker 1: we do not release to the public. You can go
Speaker 1: to Patreon, or you can subscribe an Apple podcast apps.
Speaker 2: Yes, because the real monsters, they don't live in the woods,
Speaker 2: They live in the stories that we tell ourselves absol
Speaker 2: to sleep at night. So yes, be a joy to
Speaker 2: have you on this journey with us, because we were
Speaker 2: just looking up crime Con for next year.
Speaker 1: And it looks like we're gonna we're gonna try and
Speaker 1: plan to go to crime Con when it's in the
Speaker 1: Vegas babe.
Speaker 2: Yes, and I've never been on fifty five, never been
Speaker 2: to Vegas. You guys, you got to show me a
Speaker 2: good time when we're out here.
Speaker 1: I know tyng is gonna know yeah, but I want
Speaker 1: to Vegas a bunch of times. But when we went
Speaker 1: to crime Con it was in Vegas, so I uh,
Speaker 1: it'll be a great time.
Speaker 2: It is.
Speaker 1: We'll have to plan for it, all right, you guys.
Speaker 1: Thank you everyone again and love you Shamma, I'll see
Speaker 1: you next time.
Speaker 2: Love your Chica till we meet again. Ay bye.