Speaker 1: He's the Comical Podcast, Episode four eighty on brand Om.
Speaker 1: Here's Ryn and we're gonna bust some more brackets and
Speaker 1: change the game now in our tame. Hey Ryan, We're
Speaker 1: back for yet another whirlwind adventure. How you doing good?
Speaker 2: What is going down?
Speaker 1: The whole ton is going down. We're gonna revisit our
Speaker 1: topic from last week when we talked about the new
Speaker 1: bracket system that's in it's beta being tested out a
Speaker 1: few days ago at magic Fest Chicago. I'm sure by
Speaker 1: now Real Life US has had many updates on how
Speaker 1: it worked and things that the members of the nation
Speaker 1: that we're there would like to change, and we'll talk
Speaker 1: about that maybe on the pre show next week or
Speaker 1: possibly on the show next week, depending on how things go.
Speaker 1: But before we can get to any of that stuff,
Speaker 1: we have to thank our official business, Daddy's Fusion Gaming
Speaker 1: Online dot Com are your source for all your gaming needs,
Speaker 1: where you can use special promo code c CEO holiday
Speaker 1: to save yourself five percent, save yourself five percent off
Speaker 1: all the things that you're gonna buy anyway. You're gonna
Speaker 1: get it anyway, you might as well spend less money.
Speaker 2: Own it very much.
Speaker 1: So we also have to thank Pilo Bones Brewing Cool.
Speaker 1: They are the second coolest thing to come out of Regina,
Speaker 1: as well as being the official beer sponsor for c
Speaker 1: CEO Sidewalks Slam Theason three we'miering February twenty eighth right
Speaker 1: here on YouTube.
Speaker 2: Oh man, so many things whole mild. Yeah, Magic Con Chicago,
Speaker 2: We're not there. That sucks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that does kind of sud I want another upside
Speaker 1: down pizza now that we've talked about it. I wanted one.
Speaker 2: That's the first thing I did want. One second thing
Speaker 2: big Thanks to producer Gary the damn Media Media Media
Speaker 2: Studio Network Studio.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yep, we wouldn't be here if it wasn't for them.
Speaker 2: Very much so, and links to Duffer and AB Media
Speaker 2: in the show notes below wherever you find the show.
Speaker 2: Pile of Bones. We drank some after we played Sidewalk
Speaker 2: Slam the other day and it's going to be a
Speaker 2: great episode. Funny intro. All the players got their own
Speaker 2: little intro. I'm excited to show it off. I'm excited
Speaker 2: to talk about with people in the nation. The play
Speaker 2: mistakes because there was a bunch of them right in
Speaker 2: a row at the end of the game. None of
Speaker 2: which actually really affected the outcome of the game, because
Speaker 2: how it ended is still how it ended.
Speaker 1: That's because of what happened happened.
Speaker 2: But when I tell you and show you where they were,
Speaker 2: you're like, oh, God, damn it, Oh Jesus Christ, Oh
Speaker 2: we're so stupid, because there was three of them right
Speaker 2: in a row yep. And Editor Tyler worked on it
Speaker 2: and pointed them all out and was like, yeah, it
Speaker 2: didn't actually matter. So Feb twenty eight, watch on the Discord,
Speaker 2: watch on the Patreon feed, and all the socials. Of course,
Speaker 2: big thanks to the patrons. Yeah, Patreon dot com, Slash
Speaker 2: CEO podcast. We wouldn't be here without you guys. And
Speaker 2: we have started talking about and a little bit planning
Speaker 2: the next few CEO experiences. We've got for sure on
Speaker 2: the horizon. Magic Con Las Vegas, yeah, our favorite one ever. Oh,
Speaker 2: we've got magic Con Atlanta in September.
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is super cool.
Speaker 2: We've been scoping out flights from our part of Canada
Speaker 2: and it looks like it's gonna be relatively affordable for us.
Speaker 2: We've been looking at face to face games, tour stops,
Speaker 2: the two and the three day stops. We've been looking
Speaker 2: at Red Deer, We've been looking at Montreal, We've been
Speaker 2: looking at They just had Ottawa a couple of weeks
Speaker 2: ago that I missed Atawa. Yeah, and then in November,
Speaker 2: way at the end of the year, there's Calgary, which
Speaker 2: we always do go to and have a gay old time.
Speaker 1: Why can't they have Calgary when it's nice so we
Speaker 1: can go to the zoo. You probably wouldn't go to
Speaker 1: the zoo, but I would go to the zoo because
Speaker 1: I like the zoo.
Speaker 2: Well, usually wherever we stay is kind of close to
Speaker 2: the zoo. It wasn't the last time because it was
Speaker 2: winter and we just went back to the to the house. Yeah, right,
Speaker 2: But Calgary always a great time and of course always
Speaker 2: great to be on the Canadian tour with Fusion is
Speaker 2: there and face to face and they put us up
Speaker 2: and we have a great, great time. We do lots
Speaker 2: of giveaways and stuff.
Speaker 1: They put us up and then they put up with us,
Speaker 1: which is great mostly.
Speaker 2: The second one, yes, yes, because we turn it into
Speaker 2: a CEO experience, which I am in the discord. Gonna
Speaker 2: start a Vegas planning channel pretty quick here because that
Speaker 2: is one of the main and probably best benefits to
Speaker 2: becoming a Patreon supporter.
Speaker 1: See we missed last year too, so you'd better be
Speaker 1: prepared for a bender and a half baby. Yes. And
Speaker 1: when I say bender, of course, I mean we're gonna
Speaker 1: drink some beer and play magic like fucking nerds. Yes,
Speaker 1: and we'll probably eat some pizza.
Speaker 2: And everything there closes so early.
Speaker 1: Like if you want to go eat someone in Las Vegas, yeah,
Speaker 1: like the casinos are open and.
Speaker 2: What you high it never closes.
Speaker 1: But if you want to go and like sit down
Speaker 1: and have like a burger the size of your fucking head,
Speaker 1: you got to go before eight o'clock or the shit's closed.
Speaker 2: Ah. You know what, I'm not super high on going
Speaker 2: and standing in line to go to like the restaurants
Speaker 2: on the strip. I really like finding the places off
Speaker 2: the strip and or like I've done in the past
Speaker 2: but has never come to fruition except for maybe this
Speaker 2: time it will where we book a venue to play
Speaker 2: after hours because you know, like sometimes the hall closes
Speaker 2: or everybody wants to leave the hall to eat, Yeah,
Speaker 2: and then they don't want to catch a cab back.
Speaker 2: So it's like, hey, mister restaurant where you have awesome food?
Speaker 2: And like one hundred different beers on tap. If I
Speaker 2: bring like twenty nerds that want to eat and drink beer,
Speaker 2: can we play magic cards on your tables until three?
Speaker 2: They're like, oh, absolutely, we would love for you to
Speaker 2: come and do that. We'll have specials and this and
Speaker 2: this and this, and it's like, hey, that sounds like
Speaker 2: a perfect idea to do. Coco experience, hack openings, make
Speaker 2: little shorts videos, oh man.
Speaker 1: And drink beer and I can take an hour and
Speaker 1: a half to eat a single burger.
Speaker 2: No, you can't.
Speaker 1: And if you think that I'm making that up, I've
Speaker 1: done it.
Speaker 2: You need to eat by yourself, not be distracted, and
Speaker 2: don't even eat in the same cities that I'm in.
Speaker 2: Why because I can't stand eating with you. Why could
Speaker 2: you take an hour and a half?
Speaker 1: Stee one, Well, I just carry it around with me
Speaker 1: when I change tables.
Speaker 2: If I see you doing that, I'm gonna splat it
Speaker 2: out of your hand onto the ground and make you
Speaker 2: pick it up with your ass cheeks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Shall I shall? You can see it on YouTube if
Speaker 2: you're watching them, which should be there. It is. Okay, Well,
Speaker 2: here's the thing.
Speaker 1: Do you think Joe made me into Red Hulk for that.
Speaker 2: One, because like Green Hulk or Bust Joe.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Hulk sequel came out and they didn't have Hulk
Speaker 1: in it.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah and Red Hulk. Yeah, that's it. Okay, last
Speaker 2: thing before we talk about game changers and stuff. Okay,
Speaker 2: you and I are deliberating on the final design for
Speaker 2: CCEO sleeves. Yes, coming up. I want to launch the
Speaker 2: Kickstarter in what's the in March?
Speaker 1: March is the next month coming up?
Speaker 2: Yes, sir, and I'm excited. I want to give people,
Speaker 2: like I want to make stuff that people are interested in,
Speaker 2: and it's been years of people saying, hey, when's sleeves,
Speaker 2: when's sleeves? Well, so now sleeps frickin' now. So once
Speaker 2: we get it live and you know how people do
Speaker 2: like countdowns before kickstarters start, We're going to put those
Speaker 2: links out there and everybody can follow or do whatever
Speaker 2: you do with Kickstarter. I never knew, but like I
Speaker 2: guess people like shop on Kickstarter. What Yeah, Like they
Speaker 2: just go there to see what's available, like what new
Speaker 2: games are stuff? Can I like look at or follow
Speaker 2: to see if it's going on? Huh yeah, blew my.
Speaker 1: Mind and that must be rough because like you go
Speaker 1: and you want this big shoppings, You're like, oh, this
Speaker 1: would make a great present for so and so and
Speaker 1: such and such or such and such. It doesn't show
Speaker 1: up for two fucking years because you know manufacturing.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I'm looking to run the kickstarter for a
Speaker 2: month and have it delivered or at least out for
Speaker 2: delivery by May.
Speaker 1: That means you'll have it for when we see in Vegas.
Speaker 2: Yes, bonus points if I can just give tea in
Speaker 2: Vegas and save on the exorbitant shipping prices from Canada.
Speaker 1: Ooh, but then we have that idea.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that idea.
Speaker 1: I like that idea.
Speaker 2: I just had that idea.
Speaker 1: I had the idea. Come on, this is me contributing.
Speaker 1: Shamn' yes, straighten my shirt business.
Speaker 2: I'll give you that, okay business, Brando. How do you
Speaker 2: feel after you've spent at least one day at the
Speaker 2: LGS talking about playing with or modifying decks or playing
Speaker 2: against modified decks as a result of Commander Brack and
Speaker 2: Game Changers.
Speaker 1: I have altered nothing about my life. Oh and uh,
Speaker 1: you know what I think telling everybody that my bellow
Speaker 1: deck is one which it technically is is funny, yes,
Speaker 1: But I think overall, once we got passed that my
Speaker 1: deck is one conversation, I think that we actually did
Speaker 1: have some very enlightening conversations about people. I learned something
Speaker 1: about myself. Oh my boy, Thomas, and I'm gonna tell
Speaker 1: you about just a second. Sure, but I kind of
Speaker 1: think that it works. I think that the bracket discussion
Speaker 1: and especially the game changer list needs some refining, but
Speaker 1: I think they're actually onto something here. I really do
Speaker 1: think that this is It sounds oh, it's just like
Speaker 1: the power scale every day. It's free, but it's I
Speaker 1: really do think that this is a as far as
Speaker 1: a tool goes. I actually like using it, and I
Speaker 1: think it's pretty good.
Speaker 2: Because there's actual rules. It's not just subjectively what do
Speaker 2: you think about, like how it fits into the power
Speaker 2: range of your decks. This deck is my one, this
Speaker 2: duck's my ten, ah, this duck's my seven. No, there's
Speaker 2: actual hard and fast rules. Now, we're not going to
Speaker 2: get into it because we talked extensively about it last
Speaker 2: week for like an hour and a half over two
Speaker 2: different episodes. We're going to talk about our own experiences
Speaker 2: now that we've I've made some deck changes and really
Speaker 2: re theorized a few of my decks, and you've played
Speaker 2: and talked with the CCIO Dude Bros drank beer about it.
Speaker 1: Hell yeah we did.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So okay, what did you learn about yourself from
Speaker 2: Thomas of Sidewalk Slam.
Speaker 1: Fame Thomas of Sidewalk Slam Fame Yep, Fame, Yep, which
Speaker 1: you can see February twenty eight Fool Very Good on
Speaker 1: this YouTube channel. He was talking about what makes a
Speaker 1: one a one and he said, Okay, they're more jankie
Speaker 1: and meant to be fun. And like, in my head,
Speaker 1: I'm thinking all decks are janky and meant to be
Speaker 1: fun if you build them to be and fun. Yes,
Speaker 1: But then he hit me with the line that I
Speaker 1: also heard a few other creators using when the brackets
Speaker 1: first came out, and that's they're not built with a
Speaker 1: way to win in mind.
Speaker 2: H It's a strange thing too, And I'm.
Speaker 1: Gonna tell you I don't like that. So if anybody
Speaker 1: ever sits down with me says this is my war or.
Speaker 2: You don't like that, I don't like it.
Speaker 1: Okay, So if somebody sits down across from you and
Speaker 1: they say this is my deck. It's a one, and
Speaker 1: you say, okay, well what does it do?
Speaker 2: It?
Speaker 1: Well, it just kind of plays things and doesn't really
Speaker 1: do anything. I don't want to play against that person.
Speaker 2: I also don't think that that actually exists, Like why
Speaker 2: would agree? I don't agree with it doesn't have a
Speaker 2: way to win.
Speaker 1: Like why would you build a deck that isn't designed
Speaker 1: to win a game of magic? The gathering, like, why
Speaker 1: are you doing that? Does it have interaction in it?
Speaker 1: Is it going to prevent me from not winning or
Speaker 1: from winning the game while you go about your business
Speaker 1: of not winning? You know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: What are you doing here? Are you wasting my time?
Speaker 2: You know what's ironic that? You know what? Oh? Very much?
Speaker 2: So you know what's ironic and kind of funny? Tell
Speaker 2: me is that when brackets first came out, everybody was like, oh,
Speaker 2: what's the different? True four and five? Why is there
Speaker 2: a four and a five? Why is four and five right?
Speaker 2: Why isn't CD it's its own fucking format, all the
Speaker 2: stuff right, Like it has been for years at this point,
Speaker 2: and now that we're two or three weeks into it,
Speaker 2: I'm hearing all the conversation and discourse about level one
Speaker 2: A like, it's even gonna matter y and b man,
Speaker 2: maybe if you have to ask what a one is,
Speaker 2: just like if you have to ask what a five is,
Speaker 2: you don't have a one.
Speaker 1: It's not a one. You don't have a one.
Speaker 2: I got a one that is specifically made out of
Speaker 2: cheap cards that I know are gonna get wrecked, and
Speaker 2: I don't care because I'm gonna play them on the
Speaker 2: floor with CEO people at a magic con that have
Speaker 2: all of the Lord of the Rings cards that I
Speaker 2: can fit in that aren't worth money. Like that's the stipulation.
Speaker 2: They need to be cheap and they need to be
Speaker 2: from the Lord of the Ring set. I do have
Speaker 2: a wind con in it, though, of course I've got
Speaker 2: big creatures because there's some big orcs and trolls, and
Speaker 2: it does have an aristocrat some theme as a backup
Speaker 2: way to just get the life totals going down, right, Like,
Speaker 2: obviously the deck functions, and I didn't make any changes
Speaker 2: to that deck as a result of brackets coming out.
Speaker 2: I had one of the ones.
Speaker 1: I barely even changed my mindset with the brackets, if
Speaker 1: I'm honest, Oh, like I went through. I took one
Speaker 1: game change out of one deck to again make it
Speaker 1: a one, and during the game I won the game.
Speaker 1: For the record, Now it's not a brag, but I
Speaker 1: did win a game with a one against a three
Speaker 1: and a three and a two, and uh, that's not
Speaker 1: a how is that a one? And this deck it's
Speaker 1: vanafar Uz Lady from Murders at Carliff manor every card
Speaker 1: in it, every creature in it is either like a
Speaker 1: colorless cheerio creature that I can just play for free,
Speaker 1: or it's either manifested or morphed or cloaked or dreaded
Speaker 1: or whatever.
Speaker 2: So it's like facedown deck.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they're colorless and Vanifart makes them bigger, which
Speaker 1: is fun, and I think that that's pretty cool. It's
Speaker 1: a super janky way to play cards. I don't have
Speaker 1: any of the tokens, so I keep forgetting which ones
Speaker 1: are which? Yeah, can I target that one? Is gonna
Speaker 1: have ward? Is it a real creature? When it dies?
Speaker 1: That go to your hand? What the hell is this?
Speaker 1: And it's it's garbage, right, But like having those conversations
Speaker 1: is just it? It helps, man, I'm telling you, I'll.
Speaker 2: Ask you a couple of questions. Okay, not having the
Speaker 2: tokens doesn't make your deck less powerful. No, that's that's
Speaker 2: certainly something to keep in mind.
Speaker 1: It it's just a reminder thing like some of these
Speaker 1: have ward now and you can't tell and oh my god.
Speaker 2: Yeah, obviously all of the requirements to be a one,
Speaker 2: or specifically to not be a two or three are
Speaker 2: in place for you to call that deck a one.
Speaker 2: So by the letter of the law, it's a one. Yep,
Speaker 2: with your intention your intentions for the deck is to
Speaker 2: not optimize, face down or zero ability creatures. There's no
Speaker 2: intention to optimize or to make it better. Now, is
Speaker 2: the deck less more or the same power level as
Speaker 2: a pre con It would get hammered by a modern
Speaker 2: modern precon. Okay, that's a great parameter because level two
Speaker 2: core is the power level of a modern pre cones. Now,
Speaker 2: I'm going to do something taboo that we never freaking
Speaker 2: do and we've very specifically not done it and made
Speaker 2: jokes about it. But now that we don't have to
Speaker 2: be a slave to this anymore, what power level from
Speaker 2: one to ten would you put that deck on now
Speaker 2: that we don't have to use that system anymore.
Speaker 1: Seven. Every deck is seven. Gotcha? I gotcha? Gotcha?
Speaker 2: Okay seven, and thereby demonstrating why this system is better
Speaker 2: than that.
Speaker 1: Precisely we did it. We just we showed everybody.
Speaker 2: Okay, so it's a one. Now. I've got a couple
Speaker 2: things that I want to either clarify, reiterate, or maybe
Speaker 2: bring to light for the first time okay since we've
Speaker 2: started talking about this, sure, And the first one is
Speaker 2: about honesty. Yes, honesty, we talk about it all the time.
Speaker 2: Don't be a dick, don't be an asshole, be honest
Speaker 2: with your opponents, don't trend scumback anybody that ain't what
Speaker 2: I'm talking about here.
Speaker 1: I heard Corey yesterday. Actually he sat down with three
Speaker 1: guys that he hadn't played with before. One of them
Speaker 1: I know that you've played with and the last time
Speaker 1: you were there you played with them was the guy
Speaker 1: with the birthmark oh yeah, yeah, yep, good dude. And
Speaker 1: two other dudes I'd never seen before. And they were talking.
Speaker 1: They were like talking power level and what their decks
Speaker 1: do or whatever, and Corey was like, look, we're not
Speaker 1: playing for stakes here, Like, there's no reason to be
Speaker 1: shifty about what your deck does, just tell me and
Speaker 1: we'll play a game.
Speaker 2: Yeoh, I like that.
Speaker 1: And it's like, yeah, man.
Speaker 2: Yeah, be honest, and that's important when you're talking to others.
Speaker 2: But specifically, what I mean is it's tough to be
Speaker 2: honest with yourself. And my note is it's tough to
Speaker 2: be honest about your deck's power level, both when the
Speaker 2: deck isn't as good as you think it is, yeah,
Speaker 2: and when it's better than you think it is. And
Speaker 2: that should dictate a where you tell people it falls into,
Speaker 2: like what bracket falls into, but also how you tweak,
Speaker 2: in tune or dtune the deck. So with a few
Speaker 2: of my decks, okay, I was like, man, I don't
Speaker 2: think that this deck is actually that good, and it's
Speaker 2: got one or two game changers in it, immediately putting
Speaker 2: it in bracket three. And I'm like, this deck ain't
Speaker 2: Bracket three. It barely wins at my F and M
Speaker 2: when I'm playing against like brand new players that have
Speaker 2: never played that, who've modified their pre cons and made
Speaker 2: it worse, Like this deck is.
Speaker 1: Not good, yeah, they make their deck worse. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So it's like, I can't in good faith say that
Speaker 2: this deck's a two because it's got two or three
Speaker 2: game changers and a bunch of tutors in it. So
Speaker 2: I'm gonna fucking take those cards out and make my
Speaker 2: deck an actual two no game changers, no redundancy in
Speaker 2: the tutor slot, sure, no early combos, all this stuff.
Speaker 2: And I'm honest about my deck not being very powerful.
Speaker 2: So it almost makes me feel like, why try Why
Speaker 2: include these cards that obviously give players like a sour
Speaker 2: taste or a bad experience. When one card out of
Speaker 2: ninety nine isn't going to move the needle, now I
Speaker 2: get it. At the same time, Well, if the one
Speaker 2: card is not going to move the needle, why do
Speaker 2: I have to take it out? Yeah, because that's what
Speaker 2: the rule is. Now, that's what the bracket rule is.
Speaker 2: And if one card's okay, it's two cards okay, it's three, okay,
Speaker 2: it's four okay. Because now we're not talking about is
Speaker 2: my deck a two or three four game changers? Is
Speaker 2: the difference between my deck being a two or three
Speaker 2: or a four and now I'm jumping up two brackets.
Speaker 2: So instead of running one or two in my deck
Speaker 2: that obviously sucks, I'm just gonna run freaking nune and
Speaker 2: it's a two.
Speaker 1: And it's a two.
Speaker 2: And it's a two. And I don't have to say
Speaker 2: that it's a two based on modern pre cons because
Speaker 2: it ain't as good as modern precns. It's a two
Speaker 2: based on the life cycle of a pre con from
Speaker 2: twenty eleven twenty twenty five. It's a two.
Speaker 3: It's a two.
Speaker 1: It's two deuce, and it's easy shit two. It's easy shit.
Speaker 2: Also also important, Yeah shit, it's a deuce. It's also
Speaker 2: important to say that every single one of my decks
Speaker 2: at this point has been considered in this way. And
Speaker 2: while some of them were like, oh, I'm gonna take
Speaker 2: this smothering tithe out of this deck, I'm gonna take
Speaker 2: this one ring out of this deck. I'm gonna put
Speaker 2: that smothering tithe then one ring into different decks that
Speaker 2: it's like, this deck's obviously better than a pre con
Speaker 2: and only has one game changer in it. Now it
Speaker 2: has three, and it's still a three. My deck is
Speaker 2: now better. I got better card draw, I got better
Speaker 2: man of production. I'm putting my smothering Tithe in the
Speaker 2: deck that has the Enlightened Tutor and the Sarah Sanctum
Speaker 2: that combos to win. That's a three. Yeah, and it's
Speaker 2: got the exact amount of game changers it's allowed to have.
Speaker 2: It's got a redundancy of tutors, a lot of removal,
Speaker 2: some light stacks. This deck is very obviously better than
Speaker 2: a pre con.
Speaker 1: Yes, and it's a three. Some of those pre cons, man, yeah.
Speaker 2: I'll play against them. I'm not scared if they want
Speaker 2: to play up. They want to play up into three
Speaker 2: because they're running like the most powerful pre con. I'll
Speaker 2: play up.
Speaker 1: I'll slap you down.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1: Make you feel like you're playing a zero.
Speaker 2: So in this way of thinking, slow rolled me. In
Speaker 2: this way, I have changed four decks.
Speaker 1: Wow, I've changed that one I told you about. And
Speaker 1: uh I actually added a chrome box that I opened
Speaker 1: it to Ralph.
Speaker 2: Hey, yeah, there you go, which which chrome marks do
Speaker 2: you open?
Speaker 1: I opened the yellow. I opened a borderless foil. Actually
Speaker 1: I hit it big.
Speaker 2: Borderless foil from what set either drift?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Oh man, hey, hey we you and I did a
Speaker 2: Brandos and Ryan's box opening. Check it out coming up?
Speaker 2: I guess on a Friday or a Saturday, whenever, whenever
Speaker 2: Sidewalk slam isn't.
Speaker 1: Yes, because we walk slam does take priority. We opened
Speaker 1: some pretty okay stuff.
Speaker 2: We well it was my box, but you're opening it,
Speaker 2: so it's like, oh man, I probably could have done better,
Speaker 2: but uh some definitely commons and uncommons and rares that
Speaker 2: I'm going to play. Yeah, I got all the lands
Speaker 2: I needed. If I don't want to do yellow border.
Speaker 1: Lands, which he does. So if you have yellow border
Speaker 1: Lands you don't want, get at your boy, hit me up.
Speaker 2: And I definitely got some mega Foil hits. It's too bad.
Speaker 2: I wanted to trade all my mega hits in too,
Speaker 2: Like see if I can get another box now all
Speaker 2: my megafoil hits, I'm they go on a vehicle deck
Speaker 2: and I'm a freaking nerd.
Speaker 1: So oh man, yeah that's the same way. Yeah exactly, so.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, getting pounded on booster boxes it's basically what
Speaker 2: we do. So anyways, I got four x four deckx okay, Okay,
Speaker 2: I got shrewdfuss. I remember that one mushroom stamp guy. Ye,
Speaker 2: so mushroom stamp guy, the one ring okay out it
Speaker 2: was the only game changer, okay, And I says I'm
Speaker 2: gonna put a Sylvan anthem in that was the card
Speaker 2: I couldn't remember last week when a green creature entered.
Speaker 1: Green creature doesn't say token skry one.
Speaker 2: Scry one and all your green couruld you get plus
Speaker 2: one plus one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good card.
Speaker 2: That's a good card. Two mana. So I can play
Speaker 2: that a turn before my commander. It's gonna it's gonna
Speaker 2: like essentially act as a token doubler because my saperlings
Speaker 2: now deal two damage eats instead of one, and whenever
Speaker 2: they hit you, I make another one. So it's very good.
Speaker 2: It's a card advantage engine. If I can make ten
Speaker 2: tokens and scry ten ten times, that's probably gonna give
Speaker 2: me enough card selection to count as like card advantage.
Speaker 1: You think, oh yeah, yeah, very much. And I've certainly
Speaker 1: played with that card. I played an Avy, and I
Speaker 1: play it in Tanna, yep, and it's.
Speaker 2: Good in both very good. Okay, So I put that in.
Speaker 2: It's on curve, it's budget, and it allowed me to
Speaker 2: take a game changer out to make my deck a
Speaker 2: straight up to some early man A dorks which are
Speaker 2: susceptible to rats, and some mid game make tokens and
Speaker 2: some late game preposterous proportions and all my guys get
Speaker 2: plus ten plus ten March of the World loose stuff
Speaker 2: like that. Yeah, yeah, where it's like I got fifteen
Speaker 2: tokens and I had to work the whole game to
Speaker 2: make them.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 2: Now they're all eleven elevens. Everybody's taken sixty or whatever. Right, yep,
Speaker 2: yep my next one. Brian stout arm and.
Speaker 1: I keep forgetting you have that deck?
Speaker 2: Yeah, every time I play it, I'm like, oh, this
Speaker 2: is the last time.
Speaker 1: Yep, I'm taking this up. Why don't you just saying
Speaker 1: it for years? Man, I think I would have dusted
Speaker 1: that deck years ago.
Speaker 2: Dude, I keep I keep modifying it and playing it.
Speaker 2: The last time I played it, I pounded guys with.
Speaker 1: It, like, absolutely destroyed people with it.
Speaker 2: And I played it two times in the same night,
Speaker 2: and one time I almost won, and the other time
Speaker 2: I fucking just pounded guys shorts right up their butts.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: I don't know what that looks like or why I
Speaker 2: said that, But you ever got a weggie? Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: it's like a wedgie butt, but it looks because a
Speaker 2: fist was also. Yes, so I took smothering tithe out
Speaker 2: of that deck.
Speaker 1: So now when you play your eight man things, you
Speaker 1: have to actually pay eight Yes, Now your deck was
Speaker 1: already a piece of shit. Is a smellier piece of ship? Yes? Nice?
Speaker 2: Yes, But what I did is other upgrades that were
Speaker 2: just better, like card draw stuff or whatever that was
Speaker 2: just better. And I'm introducing a little bit of a
Speaker 2: giant sub theme, like giant creatures, because there's there's like
Speaker 2: a damage doubler from Caldheim that is, yep, just for giants.
Speaker 2: Bryan star Arms a giant.
Speaker 1: Is that.
Speaker 2: I've got a what's the what's the five drop that
Speaker 2: you tutor in equipment when you play him Stone Stone.
Speaker 1: Here giants Stone the white yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: The white one.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And that lets me find my death render or my
Speaker 2: infect equipment. Right, And he's a giant giant. And there's
Speaker 2: a couple other ones like Inferno Titan. Sure, there's Giant
Speaker 2: har Harbinger's a giant tutor.
Speaker 1: It's you added two tutors. Yes, So is the deck
Speaker 1: truly a two with that many tutors?
Speaker 2: It is a two tur because those are the only
Speaker 2: tutors in it. I didn't I didn't add the Giant
Speaker 2: Harbinger yet. Okay, that's still in like the maybe pile
Speaker 2: as I find what else to cut. So it's got
Speaker 2: a stone here, giant to find a wind con sure. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and uh it's slow, but it's got a powerful endgame
Speaker 2: and it is capable of killing people in one hit,
Speaker 2: like if I do it, like if I damage double
Speaker 2: or damaged double by flinging a Malignis or a Sarah's Avatar.
Speaker 1: Life total equal to your life.
Speaker 2: Power equal to life total, then I fling it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's got the infect equipment on Brian. If I fling
Speaker 2: a ten.
Speaker 1: Drop, you just die.
Speaker 2: So it can do the powerful thing, but slowly.
Speaker 1: Do you wish that cat was red? I wish Kaktar
Speaker 1: was red.
Speaker 2: I wish Kaktar was red because he'd be going straight
Speaker 2: into the Brian Strout arm deck yep, and I'd be
Speaker 2: gaining ten thousand life when I.
Speaker 1: I love that fucking card. I love it so much.
Speaker 2: You know what I saw it? I saw that it
Speaker 2: was a Final Fantasy card. You can hear some of
Speaker 2: our initial Final Fantasy thoughts on yesterday's pre show. I
Speaker 2: saw it, I thought a I didn't know Kaktar was
Speaker 2: from Final Fantasy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you fool, Yeah, I'm an idiot.
Speaker 2: Second thing is, I don't know if Brando's gonna love
Speaker 2: this or hate it.
Speaker 1: I love it. I really like it. Yeah, I like
Speaker 1: it a lot.
Speaker 2: I'm happy for you, and I liked it so many
Speaker 2: people like oh.
Speaker 1: Bad and it's too good.
Speaker 2: It's you Gia, Like, come on, guys, well it is
Speaker 2: you gioh But at the at the point of ten thousand,
Speaker 2: how is that any different than I don't know, fifty
Speaker 2: or one hundred, Like I don't.
Speaker 1: Know g Off. Yeah, Thomas's boyfriend. I hope it's okay
Speaker 1: that I say that on the show Scandal. But he
Speaker 1: plays lots of legacy, so like the tuning and the
Speaker 1: fine he has a really good magic mind that way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And when we were talking about this thing that's got
Speaker 1: ten thousand power, he's just like, what's the difference between
Speaker 1: ten thousand and one hundred? And the answer is basically nothing.
Speaker 2: Bro, what's the differenween ten thousand and emer cool? When
Speaker 2: you've cracked, when you've cracked three or four fetch lands
Speaker 2: and I have an emoric cool And I hit you
Speaker 2: one time as if that might not like, if that
Speaker 2: doesn't kill you, puts you to one or two in
Speaker 2: legacy that is yeah, and you have to annihilate six. Like,
Speaker 2: how is this like if I go show and tell
Speaker 2: omniscience emmer cool, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know, it's over.
Speaker 2: He gets fine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that that's it's just an arbitrary
Speaker 1: a large number on a fairly simple to deal with creature.
Speaker 2: And no evasion. Yep, this is fine.
Speaker 1: You're gonna give it Trammel immediately.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's like, what's the guy whenever you have
Speaker 2: a creature enter the battlefield, he double his power. I know,
Speaker 2: the one devilish valet. Yeah, every time creature ETBs, it's
Speaker 2: a creature fall double power. And everybody's like, what the fuck?
Speaker 2: Oh my god, you play five creatures in this guy's
Speaker 2: like eighty power, eighty and ten thousand. I don't know,
Speaker 2: it's the same that they feel like they're the same thing.
Speaker 1: It's the same number, really, But yeah, I think that
Speaker 1: that character is fucking cool man. I'm excited to play him.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I got two more decks and then we're gonna
Speaker 2: talk a little bit more about game changes es, the ball.
Speaker 2: This where my smothering tie is going. It's an enchantment.
Speaker 2: I play in light and tutor I play Sarah's sanctum.
Speaker 2: This is fine. It's already a three. It's the one
Speaker 2: that has the light. I wouldn't say stacks is too
Speaker 2: extreme of a word, but it's like, all damage dealt
Speaker 2: to me is zero. I can story circle or circle
Speaker 2: of protection myself, like I can lock you out of
Speaker 2: damaging me.
Speaker 1: Yes. Uh.
Speaker 2: It's got all of the removal that are enchantments, like
Speaker 2: make your guy a bug, make your guy a zero four,
Speaker 2: make your guy a land. All of those draw me
Speaker 2: four cards because I've got all the enchantresses enchantry. Right,
Speaker 2: So a deck's probably a three, ye, probably a three,
Speaker 2: and it's got three game changers in it.
Speaker 1: Now there you go.
Speaker 2: That's fine.
Speaker 1: Sure.
Speaker 2: In the final one, alenda, I cut something I don't
Speaker 2: remember what to add. Oh oh, es also has a
Speaker 2: ristic study, So alenda I cut something to add the
Speaker 2: one ring, and it only has two game changers. And
Speaker 2: this is where intention versus letter of the law comes
Speaker 2: in again, Like we talked about last week. Two game changers.
Speaker 2: But there are five or six tutors, probably too many
Speaker 2: to be a three.
Speaker 1: I don't know, man, We're gonna talk about that later.
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about why tutors are.
Speaker 2: One of the tutors is an ursa saga which finds
Speaker 2: a soul ring. Find a soul ring, or in my
Speaker 2: deck a combo piece, an animation module which combos with
Speaker 2: a lenda. One of the tutors is a Inventor's fair
Speaker 2: the land that finds the same combo piece, right sure.
Speaker 2: And then there's a dtoots, there's a Rounscar Demon, and
Speaker 2: there's a Besiech the Queen. That's six tutors, lots of tutors.
Speaker 2: That's lots of tutors. And I don't specifically try to combo.
Speaker 2: I try to do the value thing and always bring
Speaker 2: stuff back from the graved Like you've played the deck,
Speaker 2: it's impossible to beat. And here I talked about this
Speaker 2: one last on purpose because it feels like there's a
Speaker 2: lot of things in that deck that change the game.
Speaker 2: You You always talk about that deck being so resilient,
Speaker 2: that deck trying to get value out of literally every
Speaker 2: inch and corner of the game. It's got an Astionnaud's
Speaker 2: altar in there to make a ton of manna, not
Speaker 2: a game changer. To play other things that also feel
Speaker 2: like game Changers, Exanguinate, Torment of Hailfire.
Speaker 1: We talked about those last week.
Speaker 2: Dead of the Debt LISS, which is the.
Speaker 1: When they die they come back. No, isn't that.
Speaker 2: That's debtors Now. Dead of the Debt LISS is the
Speaker 2: white Black Exanguinate times two. That one. It's like black black,
Speaker 2: white white X. Everybody loses X, you gain two X.
Speaker 2: Everybody loses two X. I gain two x. That one.
Speaker 2: When you sacrifice fifteen guys, everybody take thirty. That's enough, right,
Speaker 2: And it's got another. So that's like three or four.
Speaker 2: Feels like game changers that win out of nowhere. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and then it's got a fucking grave Pact. That feels
Speaker 2: like a game changer, doesn't it? Because it changes the
Speaker 2: way that you play magic. Yeah, it's not necessarily an
Speaker 2: awesome card if I don't have creatures, but I built
Speaker 2: my deck around having creatures, so I do. But like
Speaker 2: Herobi Deaths Whale, Yeah, it changes a game of magic
Speaker 2: into something else. And I think that's what's important to differentiate.
Speaker 2: And I'm gonna ask you about this when we got
Speaker 2: comments on last week's pre show and last week's episode,
Speaker 2: I would take this off and put this on, this off,
Speaker 2: this on a lot of I would put this onto
Speaker 2: the game Changer's list. Were cards that feel like they
Speaker 2: win out of nowhere. A Chroma's Will was mentioned. Exanguinate
Speaker 2: and Torment to Hailfire were brought up. Ashnaud's Altar and
Speaker 2: and for an Alter were brought up. Because it's like,
Speaker 2: you're not doing intruder alarm. You're not doing anything fucking
Speaker 2: normal with that.
Speaker 1: You're not doing anything fair with intruder alarm.
Speaker 2: Nobody just absolutely intruder.
Speaker 1: It's not in your es, is it.
Speaker 2: No, it's blue? Oh yeah, oh no, No, it's not
Speaker 2: an estrad no because she she's no a creature.
Speaker 1: Deck, but it's an enchantment it's see. Nobody nobody does that,
Speaker 1: Nobody plays it. This is my enchantment deck, and I
Speaker 1: nobody does that because it's cracked.
Speaker 2: And that card will probably be good in that deck
Speaker 2: because it keeps creatures.
Speaker 1: Tapped until somebody plays one exactly.
Speaker 2: Another one is uh Seedborn Muse, skull Clamp. We saw
Speaker 2: those that just provide so much value, turnover, turn overturn.
Speaker 2: Those don't inherently change the game of magic. Seedborn mus
Speaker 2: You're probably gonna run out of cards, skull Clamp you
Speaker 2: might run out of guys right right, and both of
Speaker 2: those are easy to destroy. Like, I don't know, we're
Speaker 2: not getting into that. Yeah, but the feels like game
Speaker 2: changers along with the tutors makes my Alenda deck feel
Speaker 2: like a four even though technically it only has two
Speaker 2: game changers in it. Yeah, and then and then yeah exactly,
Speaker 2: and then what is what is too many tutors and
Speaker 2: what is the intention of those tutors? And two of
Speaker 2: my tutors that are very narrow are specifically in there
Speaker 2: to find combo pieces that feels quite pointed. When you're
Speaker 2: quite pointed, it feels like you shouldn't be at the
Speaker 2: two or three category. I concur so.
Speaker 1: So I was thinking about this, and I was talking
Speaker 1: to Aiden, and I think g off about this last night.
Speaker 1: Where when you look at my decks, I play tons
Speaker 1: of tutors in mind, not tons, but like I'll have
Speaker 1: one or two and basically every deck that I play,
Speaker 1: And the reason I and.
Speaker 2: Some some decks you play tutors are not sparse correct
Speaker 2: whatever sparse means?
Speaker 1: Yeah, whatever that means, Like they're they're fucking there, and
Speaker 1: I play them because I don't really play, for example,
Speaker 1: pay to lose to draw to Why would I pay
Speaker 1: two to draw to random piece of shit cards and
Speaker 1: I could pay two at the same speed and just
Speaker 1: find the thing.
Speaker 2: Thing that you need. Yeah. And also I'll add to
Speaker 2: that because I know you and I know your decks.
Speaker 2: You also aren't the guy that's going to tutor for
Speaker 2: a combo piece. I don't know if I can remember
Speaker 2: a time where you weren't playing nice C d H
Speaker 2: where you combo one think on last season Sidewalk Slam
Speaker 2: when you tried to snoop combo. Was the last time
Speaker 2: I saw you combo? See, And when you're not trying
Speaker 2: to do the combo thing, tutors become less important. They
Speaker 2: just become like a second copy of air quotes the
Speaker 2: best card in your deck, or a second copy.
Speaker 1: Of the thing I need, the thing you need right now, Yeah,
Speaker 1: which is kind of what I play them for. And
Speaker 1: I think that intention and that's this is what I'm saying. Like,
Speaker 1: when you look at the list of Game Change, there's
Speaker 1: so many tutors, and they're mentioned in the brackets like
Speaker 1: what makes a decka.
Speaker 2: It's redundancy there or the not redundancy thing, the redundancy. No,
Speaker 2: that's the same one.
Speaker 1: That's the same word. You just said it a bunch
Speaker 1: of times.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the redundancy with the list and the rule.
Speaker 1: Yes, And I feel like the tutor thing specifically, I
Speaker 1: think that's the most intention based thing in here.
Speaker 2: Making get the hardest to quantify.
Speaker 1: The absolutely the most difficult thing to quantify as a
Speaker 1: hard and fast rule, because if you're like, well, in
Speaker 1: the examples we just gave Ryan's playing tutors to find
Speaker 1: a combo piece to win the game, whereas I'm playing
Speaker 1: tutors because I don't want to just draw a card.
Speaker 1: I want to find the thing that I need right then,
Speaker 1: be it a piece of removal or I don't have
Speaker 1: any creatures, I have no cards in my hand, so
Speaker 1: I need something right And I think that that well
Speaker 1: round or you're running five tutors in your deck, yeah,
Speaker 1: but I use it to find cultivate because you're not
Speaker 1: a combo player exactly. So like and I feel like
Speaker 1: that I'm not saying I deserve special consideration, but I
Speaker 1: think that when you're gonna put it into a hard
Speaker 1: and fast rule like they have, having too many tutors
Speaker 1: immediately makes your deck into a four or a five.
Speaker 1: That's I don't know, have to say, disingenuous is the
Speaker 1: wrong word. But then you got to sit down and
Speaker 1: we got to go back to the whole rule zero
Speaker 1: thing where it's like, listen, I'm running tutors instead of
Speaker 1: drawsbells because because I don't want to just draw three
Speaker 1: more islands.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and man, and that's hard to quant if we
Speaker 2: have we have a hard and fast rule that dictates
Speaker 2: how many game changers we have, and some of the
Speaker 2: tutors are also game changers. There's an overlap there. Why
Speaker 2: do we not just have this? This is a legitimate question.
Speaker 2: This isn't me being facetious or like being hyperbolic or whatever.
Speaker 2: Why don't we have a hard and fast number, a
Speaker 2: definition of what tutors being sparse means. Could it be two,
Speaker 2: could it be three? I don't know. I have I
Speaker 2: have a power level or a bracket two deck that
Speaker 2: has three tutors in it, but no game changers. And
Speaker 2: what's ironic is tutors. If you're tutoring for a wrath
Speaker 2: of God or removal spell, those change the game. Yeah,
Speaker 2: those change what's happening in the game. Where as a
Speaker 2: tutor for a combo piece like I'm running in my
Speaker 2: lend Of deck that's going to end the game.
Speaker 1: Which is also changing it, but.
Speaker 2: It is, it is, and I think the difference is
Speaker 2: I'm automatically declaring and saying that deck exists at a four,
Speaker 2: you better expect that if I tutor, I'm going to
Speaker 2: try and end the game.
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm gonnay and win with that.
Speaker 2: That's the difference. You're playing tutors maybe in decks that
Speaker 2: exist at two and three where they should be sparse,
Speaker 2: and if they're not, maybe this is how I interpret it.
Speaker 2: If they're not sparse, they also don't win the game.
Speaker 2: And that goes back again to intention, which is hard
Speaker 2: to quantify because there's no hard and fast rule. And
Speaker 2: if we want it to be a tool that's used,
Speaker 2: I think it might be worth testing. I'm not going
Speaker 2: to say beneficial or better, but worth testing and saying
Speaker 2: this is how many tutors and this is what tutor means.
Speaker 2: Because I saw so many people on Twitter saying is
Speaker 2: cultivated Twitter is rampant growth of Twitter? What in my
Speaker 2: what about in my monogreen Landfall deck when I run
Speaker 2: seven different cultivate and rampid growth variants, what like are
Speaker 2: are those tutors? Because they're furthering my strategy at that point?
Speaker 1: You know what card isn't on this list? That fucking
Speaker 1: should be crop rotation. Crop rotation, good crop rotation is
Speaker 1: a hell of a card.
Speaker 2: You think corp rotation should be on the list?
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I do.
Speaker 2: What did you say last week for what should be
Speaker 2: on Green's list?
Speaker 1: A great hoof greater hoof?
Speaker 2: Yes you did, because that is a that is a
Speaker 2: well and you're falling into the I think trap. That's
Speaker 2: a win the game card like a Chromo's memorial. Yes,
Speaker 2: Creater Hoof and a Chromo's memorial do the same thing.
Speaker 1: You just win the game kind of Yeah.
Speaker 2: Trample to everybody, make everybody huge, or flying to everybody,
Speaker 2: give them all double strike. They do the same thing.
Speaker 2: YEA crop rotation changes what's currently happening, and you can
Speaker 2: use it offensive or defensively, or to further various kinds
Speaker 2: of strategies. Now, does that add a redundancy to the list.
Speaker 2: If I'm crop rotating for a Sarah Sanctum or a
Speaker 2: Guy's cradle, we already have those cards on the list.
Speaker 2: So why do is corop rotation need to be on there,
Speaker 2: which raises the.
Speaker 1: Question why are tutors on there in the first place.
Speaker 2: It when we already have the tutor should be sparse
Speaker 2: when we don't have a definition of wars correct. I
Speaker 2: don't know that sounds kind of complaining, but I think
Speaker 2: I think more than anything, we're just trying to talk
Speaker 2: through it.
Speaker 1: And this is a like again, this is the thing
Speaker 1: that's in its beta infancy. Again, as people are listening
Speaker 1: to this, with the exception of producer Gary.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Magic. Welcome to Magic, Gary.
Speaker 1: So none of us have been to Chicago or know
Speaker 1: anything about Chicago, but everybody who's listening this, we'll have
Speaker 1: probably hurt something from there. Right it worked, and maybe
Speaker 1: like maybe it'll come back. You know, we're gonna change
Speaker 1: Instead of having all these tutors on the game changer list,
Speaker 1: we're gonna put like a number of tutors in each bracket.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe we'll sprinkle like how many game changers you
Speaker 1: can play across your decks. Maybe we'll add some different
Speaker 1: cards on here, you know, like that could be the gimmick.
Speaker 1: I'd imagine there's gonna be some people who have some
Speaker 1: some pull probably walking around with maybe some band cards
Speaker 1: in their decks, maybe to see if they might end
Speaker 1: up on a game changer list in the future. You
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. I'm man, I'm so excited to
Speaker 1: play on Manocrypts again, you guys.
Speaker 2: I'm so excited to play Jewel Lotus and Bruvac twelve
Speaker 2: game changes. Maybe when I found out that testing and
Speaker 2: there was gonna be an exact area for exactly what
Speaker 2: we're talking about in Chicago, I had that disappointment in
Speaker 2: fomal feeling all over again, missing CECO Nation, missing the
Speaker 2: CEO experience, missing.
Speaker 1: Like dropside down pizza yea man's.
Speaker 2: Own right, like missing all of that aside, when I
Speaker 2: found out that I could have like meaningful and really
Speaker 2: deep theoretical magic conversations with other people who really care
Speaker 2: about it. No, not discounting what we're doing here, but
Speaker 2: we do this all the time. If I can do
Speaker 2: this with people who have different opinions than you and
Speaker 2: those or WATSI people or people on the Commander what's
Speaker 2: it called again, I don't care Brick the Commander group,
Speaker 2: the Commander Posse. I don't Yeah, man, I I wish
Speaker 2: that I could have been there and just talk, whether
Speaker 2: it be cards or intentions. I would love to see
Speaker 2: some kind of line or line graph or bar graph
Speaker 2: saying like this is as you increase in game changes,
Speaker 2: your deck becomes this, and how having tutors in your
Speaker 2: deck changes that? Right? And what I'm what I'm interested
Speaker 2: in in thinking about a graphing or whatever is like
Speaker 2: the quantifying the intention where I specifically don't go over
Speaker 2: three game changers to keep my deck of three? Sure,
Speaker 2: or I don't have any game changers to keep my
Speaker 2: deck of two?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: At what point do tutors start to make my deck
Speaker 2: have to move up a bracket? Yeah? And if it's
Speaker 2: just tutorness, is it tutor? Yes or no? Don't talk
Speaker 2: about intention, don't talk about what I can find except
Speaker 2: for LAMB tutors. Is it going to change the bracket
Speaker 2: my deck is in? We don't really have rules that
Speaker 2: govern that. And I would love to know what people
Speaker 2: feel about that crossover, Like does having five tutors in
Speaker 2: my bracket three deck? Does that make it like a
Speaker 2: three point five?
Speaker 1: Oh? No, no, I can't be because a three point five
Speaker 1: would then become a four, and then a four point
Speaker 1: five would become a well seven. And then now we're
Speaker 1: back to where were before.
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, exactly, a three point five becomes a four.
Speaker 2: And I built the deck in a way not knowing
Speaker 2: what sparse means that makes it a three. So how
Speaker 2: much can I pack in and and really how much
Speaker 2: of an edge can I gain? How much can I
Speaker 2: game the system? And how much is okay?
Speaker 1: And that's the gimmick that we talked lots about at
Speaker 1: the store last night, because again, the Bellow is a one.
Speaker 1: Is the It's such a good example because that deck
Speaker 1: isn't a fucking one.
Speaker 2: Where would you put it three three in terms of
Speaker 2: in terms of power level, not game changers in terms.
Speaker 1: Of in terms of what it's going to meet in
Speaker 1: terms of absolute power, because it is fragile on a
Speaker 1: specific access where it needs Bellow to be in play. Yep.
Speaker 1: And that's easy to disrupt because he's just a three
Speaker 1: three barl with no evasion.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: That deck is a solid three, and it could probably
Speaker 1: on a good day, it could probably slap the ship
Speaker 1: out of a out of a low four is two
Speaker 1: or a four. It's a very dangerous three. But by
Speaker 1: the letter of the rules, it's a one. And people
Speaker 1: who are gonna go and build, like build the thing.
Speaker 1: I think that quantifying number of tutors allowed or what
Speaker 1: actually constitutes on mass land denial and that sort of stuff,
Speaker 1: like quantifying what those terms mean would make it easier
Speaker 1: for you to avoid the people that are gonna build
Speaker 1: a one that's actually a nine and I mean and
Speaker 1: I actually mean nine five, you know, because you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Because people are gonna do that, right, Like,
Speaker 1: you know that's gonna happen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that happened before. That happened before. Anyways, people
Speaker 2: saying this is going to change nothing, You're right, You're right,
Speaker 2: and it's gonna change nothing. In the people who want
Speaker 2: to take a set of rules and game them. I
Speaker 2: did it when I was young in my commander career.
Speaker 2: Everybody was playing casual and I was like, how can
Speaker 2: I make the best commander deck that nobody can beat
Speaker 2: and nobody wants to play against. I didn't know socially
Speaker 2: people are gonna say, uh, I don't want to play
Speaker 2: against that. Can we do something else? Yeah? I ended
Speaker 2: up never playing the deck. I ended up taking it apart.
Speaker 2: And that was a very important learning point. And the
Speaker 2: people who do this deck's a one, but it's actually
Speaker 2: a CEDH deck or nieh on CEDH deck. Are gonna
Speaker 2: learn that that.
Speaker 1: Isn't just nobody wants to play.
Speaker 2: They wants to play against that. And that's the same
Speaker 2: thing as having just real zero or just one to
Speaker 2: ten power scale, or the four quadrant thing that people
Speaker 2: were talking about for a while, or nothing like we
Speaker 2: had in twenty eighteen. We had absolutely nothing.
Speaker 1: They were just sat down and played magic with you.
Speaker 2: Just sat down and played magic. And there was guys
Speaker 2: that didn't flip their commander over to the game started
Speaker 2: because they were trying to win prizes. And that's still
Speaker 2: gonna happen. What I like, and I want to continue
Speaker 2: to reiterate this. This is a two that gives us
Speaker 2: language and parameters to use. If that person sits down,
Speaker 2: I'm not flipping over till we start. Sits down across
Speaker 2: the street from you. Or if you're playing with random
Speaker 2: kid who it's his first Magic con and he says
Speaker 2: I have this pre con, it's like, okay, hold on
Speaker 2: a second, this guy's twelve, he's never played before. Let's
Speaker 2: be a little bit more aware of the social situation.
Speaker 1: Well, no, let's Putt.
Speaker 2: I have had that happen. Oh yeah, and a dude
Speaker 2: totally totally genuine and polite about it. He said, actually,
Speaker 2: you know what, I was looking to test out this deck.
Speaker 2: I'm looking to make it into my CDH deck. I
Speaker 2: don't think this POD's right for me, and I don't
Speaker 2: want to just like Turn three, everybody and and nobody
Speaker 2: actually get to contribute. So I'm actually gonna go because
Speaker 2: my buddy beside me wants to play in this game.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh, fuck, perfect, that was awesome, Like
Speaker 2: why can't people do that every time? Yeah, this is
Speaker 2: gonna be a tool that that happen more often.
Speaker 1: Here's hoping.
Speaker 2: I'm not hoping anything. I'm confident that it's gonna make
Speaker 2: a difference.
Speaker 1: I think I think you're right. I agree with you.
Speaker 1: I do like this and again I've seen it in
Speaker 1: action and it's actually working pretty good. And while again
Speaker 1: I think that the game Changer's list is I don't
Speaker 1: know what the word is it's At first I thought
Speaker 1: it was bad, but now I don't think it's bad.
Speaker 2: I don't think it's bad.
Speaker 1: I think it is maybe underdeveloped. Underdeveloped is like that
Speaker 1: that is the word, And I think that a lot
Speaker 1: of the things that we talked about earlier with Grave Packed,
Speaker 1: like should it be could it be on here? It
Speaker 1: probably should be, but then you run the well, okay,
Speaker 1: so then Martyr's bond has to go on and all
Speaker 1: you know what.
Speaker 2: I mean, oblation or whatever it is, you can't have one. No,
Speaker 2: not oblation, ablation.
Speaker 1: I think it's the white white, white white three. Whenever
Speaker 1: one of your things dies, everybody sacrifices.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and Arabos dictative. Arabos is Grave Pack two,
Speaker 2: but it got a flash for five.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a taste of arable ye ADDICTI not very good? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I feel so maybe that's
Speaker 1: why some of those things aren't on here when maybe
Speaker 1: they could be, because those are kind of not really
Speaker 1: a quantifiable type of card like they they I think
Speaker 1: they caught the the Blue Moon and the blood Moon
Speaker 1: and the Winter orb all kind of together in the
Speaker 1: mass Land Denial.
Speaker 2: In the Blue Moon, Creature Guy, the murphok not even
Speaker 2: on here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, neither was blood Moon.
Speaker 2: Well, but blood Moon fits into the mass Land Denial.
Speaker 2: And what I love about that is blood Moon not
Speaker 2: on the game Changer's list though, it is talked about
Speaker 2: in the rules set for brackets bracket matchmaking system. Interesting, yeah,
Speaker 2: whereas yeah, tutors are not yet, and the tutors there's
Speaker 2: so many of them, I don't know, you know what.
Speaker 2: Upon further inspection of the actual list as well, Like
Speaker 2: if you chart it, there's two red cards, there's like
Speaker 2: fifteen blue cards. Love that they weren't scared to say, well,
Speaker 2: hold on, let's pick five from every color. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: because then it makes one color better than the other. Again,
Speaker 2: if you're nerfing red more than it ought to be nerved,
Speaker 2: and you're not nerving blue as much as it ought
Speaker 2: to be nerve, then you've got this discrepancy in power
Speaker 2: at the highest level between red and blue, maybe more
Speaker 2: than you already do. Yes, right, And I'm not saying
Speaker 2: red is objectively more powerful than red. Right is so
Speaker 2: good though, I'm not saying that, But I'm saying we
Speaker 2: don't need the same number of cards in each color.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if that would.
Speaker 1: Make the list arbitrary. And then I would hate it
Speaker 1: if this list appeared, even on the surface to be
Speaker 1: in any way arbitrary, which it does not, And I
Speaker 1: appreciate that. I would hate this. We have to pick
Speaker 1: the seven most powerful cards in each color correct and
Speaker 1: the lands, and we have to put no. If they
Speaker 1: had done that, I would wholeheartedly disallow all of this.
Speaker 2: How do you feel about the list being forty cards?
Speaker 2: Do you think that's a good number?
Speaker 1: The number of cards on it doesn't concern me. It
Speaker 1: could be fifty cards, it could be ten cards, And
Speaker 1: as long as everything has a reason for being there,
Speaker 1: I'd be cool with it. This, this list can grow
Speaker 1: and change, and I'm perfectly fine with it.
Speaker 2: The way that I like that it could grow and change.
Speaker 2: I love that it could be used as a buffer
Speaker 2: to take band cards off a list, and that thereby
Speaker 2: reducing the number of band cards. I think that's great.
Speaker 2: I love that it can be any number of cards.
Speaker 2: I even I don't know how nut say I'm about
Speaker 2: this idea, but I like theoretic in theory, I like
Speaker 2: the idea that it could be a rotating thing, like, Oh,
Speaker 2: what's the game changer's thing? Like what are they introducing
Speaker 2: or telling me to not play with for this quarter?
Speaker 1: Oh, I don't want that.
Speaker 2: I like how things can rotate like that in theory.
Speaker 1: Yeah, don't talk about rotation when it comes to commander
Speaker 1: because ended up with brawl. Remember brawl. No you don't,
Speaker 1: and there's a reason for that.
Speaker 2: H You didn't even give me a chance to answer.
Speaker 1: Because I knew the answer, Ryan, I was answering for you,
Speaker 1: so I made sure I got the answer that I
Speaker 1: goddamn wanted. One thing I don't like about the list
Speaker 1: what is cut you off? No, I have to hit
Speaker 1: you with this the colorless section. I don't like that
Speaker 1: ancient Tomb is on there. I don't like that manivault
Speaker 1: is on there. I don't like those specifically because manivolt,
Speaker 1: what's the difference between a manivault and a dark ritual? Really?
Speaker 1: Dark manivault will hurt you over time, turn after turn
Speaker 1: after turn, and you essentially have to time walk yourself
Speaker 1: to make that stop. Ancient Tomb does the same thing.
Speaker 1: It twos you every time you use it. And sol
Speaker 1: Ring is not on here, nor should it be. But
Speaker 1: I feel like some of those, like kind of just
Speaker 1: burst manna or ramp things shouldn't necessarily be on here,
Speaker 1: because yes, it does lead to non games sometimes. But
Speaker 1: I can tell you right now that yesterday somebody went
Speaker 1: land ritual, sol Ring, arcane signet five man of Commander
Speaker 1: turn one.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's pretty good.
Speaker 1: And you know what happened to him?
Speaker 2: Did they not win?
Speaker 1: It got killed on player two's turn two with a
Speaker 1: two manic spell And they didn't play fucking shit because
Speaker 1: they dumped their whole hand on turn one. Yes, and
Speaker 1: that's what happened to them, right.
Speaker 2: And I'm not saying play more removal you kN no,
Speaker 2: but like that's reductive. That's not what this conversation is about.
Speaker 1: Correct, But I feel like the fast mana being on
Speaker 1: here goes back to what I said last week, where
Speaker 1: it feels this kind of butt hurdy because it's like
Speaker 1: they're expensive cards and not everybody has equal access to them.
Speaker 1: And that's why I feel that they're here. Well, the
Speaker 1: conve Ancient Tomb was printed in every pre con I
Speaker 1: don't think it would be on here much like sol Ring.
Speaker 2: Right, I much like Temple of the False God. Correct, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I just made that comparison.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Temple of the Temple of the False God taps
Speaker 1: for two. Why isn't it on here? Is it? Is
Speaker 1: it because it's conditional? Is because it doesn't damaged?
Speaker 2: Because because because it doesn't do it on turn one yes, yes,
Speaker 2: I'll raise you one. I'll one up beyond that?
Speaker 1: Why is lotus pedal not on here? It costs your
Speaker 1: to what makes a man sack it?
Speaker 2: You know what? You know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying every card that if you're gonna
Speaker 1: have these fasts, I would all fast manner should be
Speaker 1: on here, But like.
Speaker 2: I would are well, man, that's a whole nother conversation.
Speaker 2: We don't need all fast mana on this list.
Speaker 1: Just really expensive stuff.
Speaker 2: We need some fast manna to take away enough fast
Speaker 2: manna from the decks that are abusing it at a
Speaker 2: lower power level to make those decks on par with
Speaker 2: other decks that are at that same power level. It
Speaker 2: doesn't mean get rid of all of it. That just
Speaker 2: means get rid of some of the pieces that are
Speaker 2: the most common and you don't have to build around
Speaker 2: to abuse or take full advantage of sure like ancient two.
Speaker 2: Now I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go back to
Speaker 2: the colorless list and raise you one up here, go
Speaker 2: back to combine your point with my points.
Speaker 1: Or smashing points. We're touching points. Yeah, ager like that one.
Speaker 2: More than anything. I want to see manacrypt and Jeweled
Speaker 2: Lotus on the colorless game Changers list. And when you say,
Speaker 2: what's the difference between soul ring and ancient tomb and
Speaker 2: and tempo of the False God and a ritual and
Speaker 2: MANI vault, Sure nothing. They all do the same thing.
Speaker 2: They're all burst mana now redundancies a thing. Blah blah
Speaker 2: blah blah blah blah. That's a whole other conversation. But
Speaker 2: go back to September when I was talking about my
Speaker 2: disapproval of Jeweled Lotus getting banned, not because burst man
Speaker 2: of turn one three, man of player commander win on
Speaker 2: turn two. That's gonna happen. Sure, sure, And if it's
Speaker 2: on the game Changers list, maybe you can relegate that
Speaker 2: two fives ors sometimes threes. Yes, sure, perfectly fine with that.
Speaker 2: That's what this is for. And it's a tool to
Speaker 2: like declare that I'm trying to fucking do this.
Speaker 3: Yes, great, But if you put Juel Lotus on here
Speaker 3: and you allow people to play that in bracket three,
Speaker 3: or you put duel Lotus on here and say, by
Speaker 3: way of rule zero, in my bracket two deck, I'm
Speaker 3: playing a seven drop commander, I have a Jeweled Lotus
Speaker 3: in here, but I'm calling it a two.
Speaker 2: Is that okay?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: And then on turn eleven, after my seven drop commanders
Speaker 2: died two times and he costs frickin eleven or thirteen
Speaker 2: or whatever the math says, I can still play magic
Speaker 2: because I drew a card that at that point is
Speaker 2: just like drawing a Dark Ritual or a Seething Song
Speaker 2: or a Cabal Ritual or a manivault. They're all the
Speaker 2: same card unless you draw them all on turn one
Speaker 2: in your opening hand. Yes, and I think Manic Crypt
Speaker 2: and Jeweled Lotus, now that we have a game changer
Speaker 2: list could very easily slot right in there beside Ancient Toom,
Speaker 2: Chrome Max and Grim Monolith and Mind's Eye Diamond and
Speaker 2: all of that shit.
Speaker 1: And I'll take the hit and we can say leave
Speaker 1: dockside Extortion and stuff.
Speaker 2: Fuck them.
Speaker 1: I'm fine with that.
Speaker 2: Everybody's using that card in casual, yep, because he's a
Speaker 2: Goblin and Goblin players just drag their knuckles on the.
Speaker 1: Ground and I would I would know. Look at how
Speaker 1: dry mine are from bouncing off the sidewalk as I
Speaker 1: walk along. They're cold all the time.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that rock salt in the winter.
Speaker 1: Hey, gets your knuckles bad man, it's not very good
Speaker 1: at all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, dokside, get bent and stay out of here. Stay
Speaker 2: on the list, Stay on the list. Hey, did we
Speaker 2: solve any problems?
Speaker 1: We always solve the world's problems.
Speaker 2: I think so you did you know what problem I
Speaker 2: would love to solve? Tell me come Jeweled, Lotus and
Speaker 2: and mana crypt yep. Getting onto the Game Changer's list
Speaker 2: in April or May or whenever they're doing the next announcement, Sure,
Speaker 2: go to Fusion Gaming online dot com before then, you
Speaker 2: ceco holiday promo code to give a discount before those
Speaker 2: prices get inflated.
Speaker 1: Speculate on them, baby, because they're coming back.
Speaker 2: They have to MTG finance right here. The Coalition Victory
Speaker 2: coming back?
Speaker 1: You think, Yeah, that card sucks it.
Speaker 2: Coalation Victory is coming back, baby, I'm I'm I'm willing
Speaker 2: to put money on that one. You think, why haven't
Speaker 2: we talked about band cards that are gonna get unbanned?
Speaker 2: Maybe that's next week's topic. Yeah dude, yeah, let's let's
Speaker 2: let's let's do let's let's make a graph.
Speaker 1: Your thoughts down in the comments below will add them
Speaker 1: to the show.
Speaker 2: Who's getting unbanned. We'll talk about it next week on
Speaker 2: the pre show or on the regular show. Yes, final
Speaker 2: thought of the day, it's.
Speaker 1: Gonna be very well. We've already told them we're gonna
Speaker 1: talk about We've already thanked Business Daddy. We're gonna thank
Speaker 1: production Daddy and Gary and the whole damn studio around here.
Speaker 1: We're gonna thank Pile of Bones Brewing Co. Remember to
Speaker 1: check out the content that they graciously surprised supply refreshments for,
Speaker 1: which is CEO's Walk Slam Little Bonus one Season three,
Speaker 1: coming up on February twenty eighth. Do not miss it.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be super lots of fun. And another thing
Speaker 1: that you should not miss is the next exciting episode
Speaker 1: of Commander Cookout podcast in our thing
Speaker 2: Preach your notts