WEBVTT 1 00:02:00.239 --> 00:02:10.800 Hm, hey, we are live. What's up, guys, Welcome to 2 00:02:10.840 --> 00:02:12.599 Freshing podcast Man. I've got a special so for you 3 00:02:12.599 --> 00:02:14.319 guys today We're going to be having a great debate 4 00:02:14.400 --> 00:02:18.039 on religion, Islam versus Christianity. Let's get into a guys. 5 00:02:27.919 --> 00:02:28.680 Ras ship. 6 00:02:29.439 --> 00:02:32.800 Don't look down you're doing. 7 00:02:40.479 --> 00:02:53.599 I'm falling out of the state. 8 00:02:55.319 --> 00:03:09.439 The battle hells and we all have with you guys. 9 00:03:09.479 --> 00:03:11.159 Welcome to the fresh Year Podcast Man. We got a 10 00:03:11.159 --> 00:03:12.560 special one today for you guys. We're gonna have a 11 00:03:12.560 --> 00:03:15.240 religion debate Islam versus Christianity for quicking house. We get 12 00:03:15.240 --> 00:03:17.319 into a show though, first and foremost, Roma dot com 13 00:03:17.319 --> 00:03:19.800 slash Fresh Fit Cousclub dot tv. As you guys know, 14 00:03:19.840 --> 00:03:21.639 that's where you support free speech and support the team. 15 00:03:21.680 --> 00:03:24.080 Couseclub dot tv is the main place of support. So 16 00:03:24.159 --> 00:03:25.800 join up guys where we have a bunch of exclusive 17 00:03:25.800 --> 00:03:28.599 content find the scenes for you guys over there. And 18 00:03:28.840 --> 00:03:31.599 uh yeah, guys, we got four guys in the house. 19 00:03:31.919 --> 00:03:33.840 Four special guests in the house matter of fact, which 20 00:03:33.879 --> 00:03:37.840 I'll have real quickly go through. We got e Jazz 21 00:03:38.240 --> 00:03:44.960 from Uh. We got Daniel Koka jew uh, and then 22 00:03:45.000 --> 00:03:47.479 we got Sam Shamun and we got Jay Dyer as well. 23 00:03:47.719 --> 00:03:50.840 I apologize if I my lash if I butchered the name 24 00:03:50.879 --> 00:03:53.240 a little bit there. But we're gonna be doing a 25 00:03:53.280 --> 00:03:56.840 debate here on religion, guys, Islam versus Christianity. But I'm 26 00:03:56.840 --> 00:04:00.520 gonna have you guys personally introduce yourselves. I mean, I 27 00:04:00.560 --> 00:04:01.879 know who you guys are, but I guys want you 28 00:04:01.919 --> 00:04:03.960 guys to introduce yourselves to my audience. We can start 29 00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:06.039 with Ejazz from e F. 30 00:04:07.680 --> 00:04:11.400 YEP, Hijazz from e F Dawa, and the I three Institute. 31 00:04:12.560 --> 00:04:14.719 I hope that you can follow all other accounts. I'm 32 00:04:14.800 --> 00:04:17.399 join us on Twitter. I'm a big fun and followed 33 00:04:17.399 --> 00:04:19.800 by the Daniel and I look forward to seeing how 34 00:04:19.839 --> 00:04:20.639 this debate goes. 35 00:04:23.199 --> 00:04:25.480 Daniels on you sure. 36 00:04:25.959 --> 00:04:28.920 My name is Daniel Hairachu. I am a debater. I 37 00:04:28.959 --> 00:04:32.319 have a channel Muslim Skeptic on YouTube. You can also 38 00:04:32.319 --> 00:04:35.240 find me on Rumble and I found it muslim skeptic 39 00:04:35.279 --> 00:04:37.600 dot com, where we dedicate a lot of time to 40 00:04:37.639 --> 00:04:42.279 defending Islam against intellectual challenges Christianity included. So check that out. 41 00:04:42.279 --> 00:04:44.439 Happy to be here, awesome, And then can you tell 42 00:04:44.439 --> 00:04:46.000 them real quick about Jake because I know some of 43 00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:48.560 them were expecting Jake to come in, but you could 44 00:04:48.680 --> 00:04:49.959 plan it probably explain the best. 45 00:04:51.000 --> 00:04:53.519 Sure, Yeah, Jake had a last minute issue that came 46 00:04:53.600 --> 00:04:56.360 up and he's not in the country, so he couldn't 47 00:04:56.399 --> 00:05:00.360 make it, unfortunately. But yeah, that's the we have brother 48 00:05:00.439 --> 00:05:03.399 he Jazz here to replace him, and you just stepped 49 00:05:03.439 --> 00:05:05.240 up at the last minute. So appreciate that. 50 00:05:05.360 --> 00:05:10.600 Thank you for coming brother. And then Sam, well. 51 00:05:10.639 --> 00:05:13.839 Sam Shimun. I used to write for Answering Islam dot info, 52 00:05:14.319 --> 00:05:18.120 but they stopped publishing new articles years ago, so I 53 00:05:18.120 --> 00:05:22.920 started a blog, Answering Islam Blog dot WordPress dot com. 54 00:05:23.199 --> 00:05:26.879 You'll find me on Shimunion. That's my YouTube channel. Hopefully 55 00:05:27.439 --> 00:05:30.800 it stays up, but I'm also on Rumble Answering Islam. 56 00:05:31.600 --> 00:05:34.639 So that's pretty much my introduction. Not much to say 57 00:05:35.240 --> 00:05:36.720 besides that, anyway. 58 00:05:36.920 --> 00:05:39.000 Yeah, you're coming on, man. You were highly requested by 59 00:05:39.040 --> 00:05:44.839 a lot of the people, so like me, Yeah, what 60 00:05:44.920 --> 00:05:45.279 was that. 61 00:05:45.879 --> 00:05:47.600 I said, A bald beast like me. 62 00:05:48.519 --> 00:05:51.040 Yeah, a lot of my Christian supporters definitely asked me 63 00:05:51.040 --> 00:05:52.480 to bring you on. So I'm glad that you're here. 64 00:05:52.720 --> 00:05:55.079 And then Jay, just introduce yourself to the people. 65 00:05:58.839 --> 00:06:01.240 Yeah, thanks, glad to be here. I do a lot 66 00:06:01.240 --> 00:06:03.199 of debates. That's just part of what I do host 67 00:06:03.240 --> 00:06:06.360 the fourth hour of Alex Jones every Friday. I've been 68 00:06:06.360 --> 00:06:08.360 doing that for the last four years. I've written several 69 00:06:08.399 --> 00:06:12.920 books on Hollywood symbolism, philosophy, theology. So we do all 70 00:06:12.959 --> 00:06:14.920 of that and you can find me at my website, 71 00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:17.800 Jay's Analysis and then on all the social media's under 72 00:06:17.879 --> 00:06:19.319 jayder All. 73 00:06:19.279 --> 00:06:21.639 Right, awesome, thank you so much. Guys. So real quick, 74 00:06:21.680 --> 00:06:23.959 we're going to have Mo read a quick word from 75 00:06:23.959 --> 00:06:25.399 our sponsor, and then we're going to get right into 76 00:06:25.399 --> 00:06:28.759 the debate. Watch. I'll explain the breakdown of debate for 77 00:06:28.800 --> 00:06:30.279 the audience real quick. Go ahead, we'll take it away, 78 00:06:30.319 --> 00:06:32.120 make it quick, and then we'll get right to it. 79 00:06:32.360 --> 00:06:33.560 That moment I walk by. 80 00:06:33.439 --> 00:06:33.800 You, ma'am. 81 00:06:38.600 --> 00:06:43.079 This episode is sponsored by Birch Group Birch Gold Group. 82 00:06:44.120 --> 00:06:47.360 We recently had some monumental news that no one is 83 00:06:47.360 --> 00:06:51.800 talking about. 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Then 106 00:08:22.040 --> 00:08:25.040 we're gonna go into topic one, which is theology the 107 00:08:25.120 --> 00:08:27.480 Trinity versus the dar Weed then we're gonna go into 108 00:08:27.959 --> 00:08:30.680 authenticity of scripture, which is round two, and then we're 109 00:08:30.680 --> 00:08:34.279 gonna do morality Bible versus the Quran on human rights. Okay, 110 00:08:34.480 --> 00:08:38.480 we're gonna be doing three four minute rounds. Okay, so 111 00:08:38.519 --> 00:08:41.919 twelve rounds total, So three four minutes or sorry, yeah, 112 00:08:42.120 --> 00:08:44.720 three four minute rounds. Is that what we're gonna do, guys. So, 113 00:08:44.759 --> 00:08:47.480 and each team has four minutes per argument, they're gonna 114 00:08:47.480 --> 00:08:49.399 be able to go ahead and make the argument uninterrupted 115 00:08:49.639 --> 00:08:52.240 for four minutes. If one party decides to go two 116 00:08:52.279 --> 00:08:54.279 minutes or take three minutes, or take the full four minutes, 117 00:08:54.320 --> 00:08:56.759 it's fine, but it's gonna be between the team. But 118 00:08:56.840 --> 00:09:00.240 the first round is opening statements, where a Team Islam 119 00:09:00.320 --> 00:09:01.559 is gonna take it first and they're gonna go for 120 00:09:01.600 --> 00:09:03.159 five minutes. Then Team Christian is going to go. They're 121 00:09:03.159 --> 00:09:05.559 gonna go to the first topic, which again is theology 122 00:09:05.600 --> 00:09:08.039 Trinity versus the da Weed. Second round is going to 123 00:09:08.080 --> 00:09:10.440 be authenticative scripture, and then third round is going to 124 00:09:10.480 --> 00:09:13.480 be morality Bible versus of Quran on human rights. And 125 00:09:13.480 --> 00:09:15.799 we agreed upon all this beforehand. Want to make sure 126 00:09:15.799 --> 00:09:17.919 that this is even down the middle. I'll be keeping 127 00:09:17.919 --> 00:09:20.279 time for the squad. I'll be saying thirty seconds and 128 00:09:20.320 --> 00:09:22.879 then ten seconds when they're running into last thirty and 129 00:09:22.879 --> 00:09:27.519 ten seconds respectively. And other than that, Team Islam, Team Christiani. 130 00:09:27.559 --> 00:09:28.559 Are you guys good? 131 00:09:30.120 --> 00:09:30.399 Yep? 132 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:34.360 All right, awesome, So I got five minutes on the clock. 133 00:09:34.759 --> 00:09:37.080 I'm gonna go ahead and turn it to Team Islam 134 00:09:37.120 --> 00:09:44.360 for opening statements and uh give me one secle to me. Okay, 135 00:09:45.360 --> 00:09:48.840 all right, Team Islam. You guys ready, yes, scaring, Yeah, 136 00:09:48.879 --> 00:09:51.240 I got you, We got you, loud and clear. I 137 00:09:51.240 --> 00:09:54.759 don't assuming Dan, you're gonna take it first? Yes, all right, man, 138 00:09:55.320 --> 00:09:58.519 timer is on. Go ahead. 139 00:09:59.200 --> 00:10:05.399 It's been a lo. Islam is monotheistic. There is only 140 00:10:05.480 --> 00:10:10.960 one God. This is known as toheed. Christianity is polytheistic 141 00:10:11.080 --> 00:10:14.600 because Christians worship three separate gods known as the Trinity. 142 00:10:15.240 --> 00:10:17.919 Christians claim that this is false. The Trinity is not 143 00:10:18.039 --> 00:10:21.600 three separate gods. The Trinity is three in one. But 144 00:10:21.679 --> 00:10:24.919 this does this claim make sense? First of all, there's 145 00:10:24.960 --> 00:10:28.200 a logical contradiction in the Trinity. How can the Father, Son, 146 00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:30.840 and the Holy Spirit all be one God? But they 147 00:10:30.919 --> 00:10:34.799 also not be identical beings? The Father is God, the 148 00:10:34.840 --> 00:10:37.159 Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God. It's all 149 00:10:37.200 --> 00:10:39.240 one God. But the Father is not the Son, the 150 00:10:39.279 --> 00:10:41.639 Son is not the Father, and neither of them are 151 00:10:41.679 --> 00:10:45.080 the Holy Spirits. This is a logical contradiction. The only 152 00:10:45.120 --> 00:10:48.200 way to solve the contradiction is to admit that the Father, Son, 153 00:10:48.279 --> 00:10:51.600 and Holy Spirit are three separate Gods, not just one God. 154 00:10:51.759 --> 00:10:55.240 This is of course polytheism. As Muslims, we challenge Sam 155 00:10:55.279 --> 00:10:58.240 and Jay to resolve this logical contradiction for the audience. 156 00:10:58.679 --> 00:11:01.320 Explain to us how the Father, Son and Spirit are 157 00:11:01.360 --> 00:11:03.960 all one God, but they're not identical with each other, 158 00:11:04.039 --> 00:11:06.759 and explain it in a way that the average layperson 159 00:11:06.799 --> 00:11:10.399 can understand it. A layperson can understand that God is one, 160 00:11:10.879 --> 00:11:13.559 He is one God, and he can have multiple attributes. 161 00:11:13.879 --> 00:11:17.159 That's Islamic monotheism. I can explain it in one sentence. 162 00:11:17.559 --> 00:11:20.480 Can Sam and Jay explain the Trinity without resorting to 163 00:11:20.519 --> 00:11:24.240 a bunch of convoluted gobbledegoup we'll see. What Sam and 164 00:11:24.320 --> 00:11:26.080 Jay want to do is to try to claim that 165 00:11:26.200 --> 00:11:29.360 Islam's conception of God is actually just as complicated as 166 00:11:29.399 --> 00:11:32.759 the Trinity. This is a cheap debate tactic. As we'll see, 167 00:11:32.799 --> 00:11:35.399 they can't address the logical problem of the Trinity. So 168 00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:37.320 they want to make it seem like we have the 169 00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:40.279 same problem in Islam, but we don't. There is nothing 170 00:11:40.320 --> 00:11:43.519 analogous to the logical problem of the trinity in Islam. 171 00:11:43.799 --> 00:11:46.919 For example, they might claim that Allah's attributes in Islam 172 00:11:47.000 --> 00:11:50.559 are incoherent. No they're not. We can all understand how 173 00:11:50.600 --> 00:11:53.279 a person can have multiple attributes, how God can be 174 00:11:53.399 --> 00:11:56.840 all knowing, all powerful, merciful, loving, etc. This is not 175 00:11:56.879 --> 00:12:00.000 hard to understand. Those attributes of God are not seid 176 00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:03.440 separate people with their own minds. But according to the Bible, 177 00:12:03.559 --> 00:12:07.279 Jesus and the Father have separate knowledge. They have separate wills. 178 00:12:07.799 --> 00:12:10.480 For example, in Mark thirteen thirty two in the Bible, 179 00:12:10.559 --> 00:12:13.000 we read but about that day I ei the day 180 00:12:13.039 --> 00:12:15.879 of judgment. No one knows, neither the angels in heaven 181 00:12:15.919 --> 00:12:18.960 nor the Son, but only the Father. So the Son 182 00:12:19.360 --> 00:12:21.399 doesn't know when the day of judgment is, but the 183 00:12:21.440 --> 00:12:25.320 Father does know. So this indicates two separate minds. This 184 00:12:25.399 --> 00:12:28.120 is polytheism. There are more examples that we can cite 185 00:12:28.120 --> 00:12:30.200 in the rebuttal sections, but keep in mind that in 186 00:12:30.240 --> 00:12:32.960 the seventh century, the official position of the Church in 187 00:12:33.000 --> 00:12:36.320 the Third Council of Constantinople. They held the position that 188 00:12:36.440 --> 00:12:40.159 Jesus has two wills. The Church defined Jesus as having 189 00:12:40.159 --> 00:12:42.879 two energies and two wills, one divine and one human. 190 00:12:43.279 --> 00:12:47.480 Two separate wills means two separate minds. This means that 191 00:12:47.600 --> 00:12:49.879 Jesus and the Father have two separate minds and are 192 00:12:49.919 --> 00:12:53.360 therefore two separate entities. You either explain this by admitting 193 00:12:53.440 --> 00:12:55.720 it is polytheism, or you have to give us some 194 00:12:55.759 --> 00:12:58.759 convoluted explanation of how two minds or three minds are 195 00:12:58.799 --> 00:13:03.279 still one God. There's nothing analogous to this in Islamic theology. 196 00:13:03.679 --> 00:13:06.480 Islam says there's one God, he has knowledge, he has will, 197 00:13:06.759 --> 00:13:10.039 one will, one knowledge. These things are not divided between 198 00:13:10.159 --> 00:13:13.519 multiple persons or energies or anything like that. And all 199 00:13:13.559 --> 00:13:16.639 of this Islamic monotheism is clearly expressed in the Quran. 200 00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:19.320 By the way, contrast this with the Bible. Jesus is 201 00:13:19.360 --> 00:13:21.600 meant to be God, all knowing and the only teacher 202 00:13:21.639 --> 00:13:24.159 to the disciples, but the Jesus of the Gospels doesn't 203 00:13:24.159 --> 00:13:26.639 describe the doctrines of the Trinity. We have to rely 204 00:13:26.759 --> 00:13:29.000 on Paul and the Church fathers to explain what the 205 00:13:29.039 --> 00:13:32.320 Trinity is. That's strange. If God wants us to know him, 206 00:13:32.360 --> 00:13:35.799 believe in him, lay the foundation for a general understanding 207 00:13:35.840 --> 00:13:38.480 of him, why would he leave that to different authors 208 00:13:38.519 --> 00:13:41.519 at different times, in different places, over several centuries, such 209 00:13:41.559 --> 00:13:44.320 that when God is finally described in scripture, it results 210 00:13:44.320 --> 00:13:47.159 in a mystery, and we need all these church councils 211 00:13:47.200 --> 00:13:49.679 to figure it out. The way that Christians have come 212 00:13:49.720 --> 00:13:51.759 to us understand the Trinity is what we'd expect if 213 00:13:51.759 --> 00:13:54.159 God did not reveal the doctrines of the Trinity. On 214 00:13:54.240 --> 00:13:57.440 the other hand, that God in the Qur'an revealed four 215 00:13:57.519 --> 00:14:00.519 short lines that any human being can read and instantly 216 00:14:00.639 --> 00:14:03.519 understand who God is and what his attributes are. This 217 00:14:03.639 --> 00:14:06.759 is exactly what we would expect from an all knowing, wise, just, 218 00:14:06.960 --> 00:14:10.639 merciful and loving God who cares about his creation. The 219 00:14:10.720 --> 00:14:13.440 four lines are the one hundred and twelfth chapter of 220 00:14:13.480 --> 00:14:17.519 the Quran. Say he is God, one God, a Llah, 221 00:14:17.600 --> 00:14:21.279 the completely self sufficient. He neither begets, nor is born, 222 00:14:21.720 --> 00:14:23.600 nor is there to him any equivalents. 223 00:14:24.200 --> 00:14:27.840 Thank you, all right, still got a roughly thirty seconds 224 00:14:27.840 --> 00:14:30.879 on the clock. But I'll end it there. I will 225 00:14:30.879 --> 00:14:34.399 turn it to Team Christianity. We'll put another five minutes 226 00:14:34.399 --> 00:14:35.600 on the clock for you guys. 227 00:14:36.080 --> 00:14:38.039 Let me first, Jay, you want me to go, you 228 00:14:38.039 --> 00:14:39.960 go either way, go ahead. 229 00:14:39.840 --> 00:14:40.600 So okay, let me go. 230 00:14:40.679 --> 00:14:42.879 Okay, alright, timers, already, all right. 231 00:14:43.480 --> 00:14:45.720 Praise be the Father suddenly Spirit to one True God, 232 00:14:46.159 --> 00:14:48.279 and glory to the Son of God who became flesh 233 00:14:48.360 --> 00:14:51.279 for our salvation. May the Lord Jesus be magnified and 234 00:14:51.399 --> 00:14:55.000 the falsehood of Toheed exposed. Now, notice what Daniel did, 235 00:14:56.399 --> 00:14:58.639 instead of focusing on what it means for all it 236 00:14:58.759 --> 00:15:02.080 to be one, spent the bulk of his time criticizing 237 00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:04.639 the trinity. But we will answer his objections in a 238 00:15:04.679 --> 00:15:06.600 rebuttal period. But I'm now going to turn against him 239 00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:10.279 because not so fast. When he says he believes in Toheed, 240 00:15:10.799 --> 00:15:13.120 what exactly does it mean for all it to be one? 241 00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:18.200 Because I'm aware that Daniel does believe the fact that 242 00:15:18.279 --> 00:15:23.360 Kron is uncreated, and therefore we now have two distinct 243 00:15:23.399 --> 00:15:27.039 eternal entities that are not identical. Why Because I'm going 244 00:15:27.080 --> 00:15:31.200 to show Daniel from his authentic sources sahe narrations that 245 00:15:31.240 --> 00:15:33.639 the Churn and the chapters of the Koran actually one. 246 00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:36.919 To recede and debate with a law. So now we 247 00:15:37.039 --> 00:15:40.600 have a paradox because if the Koran is the speech 248 00:15:40.600 --> 00:15:42.279 of a law and that's all us speaking, is all 249 00:15:42.320 --> 00:15:44.720 us speaking to himself? So is Daniel actually a mobilist 250 00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:46.879 or is the apolotheist? Or does he have a phone 251 00:15:46.919 --> 00:15:49.759 with Trinity? But his is even worse because it's not 252 00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:53.559 three persons, because each chapter of the Koran has the 253 00:15:53.559 --> 00:15:56.120 potentiality of speaking with a law. So that means his 254 00:15:56.240 --> 00:15:58.799 God consists of at least one hundred and fifteen divine 255 00:15:58.840 --> 00:16:01.720 persons or divine beings who can interact with one another 256 00:16:01.759 --> 00:16:05.440 and appear separately. And this is all from his authentic narrations. Secondly, 257 00:16:05.519 --> 00:16:09.120 the second problem he has is that according to the Koran, 258 00:16:09.399 --> 00:16:11.679 the spirit of Allah is not Gabriel. So I'm going 259 00:16:11.720 --> 00:16:14.600 to now press him in rebuttal period to prove otherwise. 260 00:16:14.919 --> 00:16:16.799 There's not a single verse in the chron that says 261 00:16:16.799 --> 00:16:21.559 the spirit to Ruh is Jibidean. He's now dependent on 262 00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:25.080 the very scholars of Islam that comes centuries later to 263 00:16:25.159 --> 00:16:28.440 bail out Alana's messenger, because that's what he accused the 264 00:16:28.480 --> 00:16:31.639 Lord Jesus, that Jesus wasn't clear enough to articulate to Trinity. 265 00:16:31.679 --> 00:16:33.919 But he did make an admission which is now going 266 00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:36.720 to come and bite him. He admitted Paul taught the Trinity. 267 00:16:36.960 --> 00:16:39.440 It's now recorded. I want everyone to hear it. Paul 268 00:16:39.480 --> 00:16:41.600 taught the Trinity, because when we come to the scriptures, 269 00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:43.639 I'm going to show that even the Koran acknowledges that 270 00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:46.039 Paul was used by Allah to spread the truth of 271 00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:48.960 the Gospel of Jesus Christ. More to come. The Spirit, 272 00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:50.720 according to the Koran, is the sinc from a Lah. 273 00:16:51.080 --> 00:16:53.639 He appears as a man, he speaks and creates. So 274 00:16:53.720 --> 00:16:55.799 now if we add the spirit to the Koran and 275 00:16:55.840 --> 00:16:58.600 a law, he's got about one hundred and sixteen divine 276 00:16:58.639 --> 00:17:02.080 persons or beings, and he doesn't have a singular person 277 00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:05.799 called a law, then we can go a little further 278 00:17:06.440 --> 00:17:09.759 and adjust the issue of the fact that, according to 279 00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:15.240 our friend here this is his belief. Allah has well, 280 00:17:15.240 --> 00:17:16.799 he wouldn't use the term body parts. I don't want 281 00:17:16.799 --> 00:17:21.039 to misrepresent him. Allah has a foot, he has a shin, 282 00:17:21.519 --> 00:17:24.640 He even has loins, and he has at least two eyes, 283 00:17:24.680 --> 00:17:27.079 if not more, and two right hands. Now, for the 284 00:17:27.119 --> 00:17:28.680 life of me, if All is the creator of the 285 00:17:28.720 --> 00:17:31.160 heavens and the earth, how does he exist as an 286 00:17:31.160 --> 00:17:35.759 embodied being without him dwelling in space, because if he's 287 00:17:35.880 --> 00:17:39.440 a temporal and he's timeless, that means his God supposedly 288 00:17:39.480 --> 00:17:41.960 exists when there was no time space in place. But 289 00:17:42.039 --> 00:17:43.960 if you have a foot, then you have a shin 290 00:17:44.480 --> 00:17:46.480 and you have two right hands. I don't know what 291 00:17:46.480 --> 00:17:48.559 happened to the left one, but we'll get into that. 292 00:17:48.839 --> 00:17:51.160 Two right hands at least two eyes. In fact, the 293 00:17:51.200 --> 00:17:53.839 Arabic says three or more. We'll get into that. Then 294 00:17:53.880 --> 00:17:56.880 that means his God is an embodied being who is 295 00:17:56.960 --> 00:18:00.160 temporal and finite, which means that his God didn't not 296 00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:02.960 create all space or place in time because there's a 297 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:06.279 space that his body parts need to occupy in order 298 00:18:06.319 --> 00:18:08.519 for him to be his God. So the problem is 299 00:18:08.519 --> 00:18:11.640 actually worse for Daniel than for us. So he's going 300 00:18:11.720 --> 00:18:13.680 to have to explain how is it that he's a 301 00:18:13.680 --> 00:18:19.039 polytheist pagan masquerading as a monotheist because what he just 302 00:18:19.079 --> 00:18:22.279 told you is not anchoring the kron or the authentic 303 00:18:22.839 --> 00:18:25.640 son of Muhammad. So good luck in chin to defend 304 00:18:26.079 --> 00:18:29.880 your rational selfie anthropomorphism. And last time I checked, his 305 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:33.759 partner doesn't share his selfie anthropomorphism, So we're going to 306 00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:35.039 have a field day. Now how much nimee? 307 00:18:35.039 --> 00:18:36.599 Do I have one minute to go? 308 00:18:37.640 --> 00:18:38.759 You want to take last minute ahead? 309 00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:38.960 Brother? 310 00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:39.319 Yeah. 311 00:18:39.319 --> 00:18:42.279 I'd like to point out that in Daniel's opening statement 312 00:18:42.319 --> 00:18:44.799 they also committed a fallacy, which is a form of 313 00:18:45.200 --> 00:18:47.960 Ockham's razor fallacy. He kept appealing to the fact that 314 00:18:48.079 --> 00:18:51.039 because it's simple, that it must be obvious. It must 315 00:18:51.079 --> 00:18:52.799 be the case. It's just to go something scenes or 316 00:18:52.799 --> 00:18:55.720 appears to be simpler or more obvious, or because it 317 00:18:55.759 --> 00:18:58.920 was only four short and simple sentences, has nothing to 318 00:18:58.960 --> 00:19:01.279 do with whether it's for awesome. In fact, as we're 319 00:19:01.319 --> 00:19:04.599 gonna see the Muslims amongst themselves and their various schools 320 00:19:05.039 --> 00:19:08.079 all compete and disagree and fight not only over the 321 00:19:08.119 --> 00:19:10.359 attributes but also over jurisprudence. 322 00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:15.799 Okay, great, so this is a little bit at a time. 323 00:19:15.839 --> 00:19:21.559 But so that concludes opening statements. Obviously, that segues perfectly 324 00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:24.240 into our first thing. What I'll do is, do we 325 00:19:24.279 --> 00:19:26.759 have any chests with it to read or you know, 326 00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:28.400 we'll just go right into the first one. Guys, get 327 00:19:28.440 --> 00:19:30.119 your chats in now and I'll read them after the 328 00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:34.680 first round. After opening statements. So segues perfectly into round one, 329 00:19:34.680 --> 00:19:38.519 which is theology Trinity versus the weed. I'm gonna turn 330 00:19:38.519 --> 00:19:41.599 it back to team Islam. You guys are gonna I'm 331 00:19:41.599 --> 00:19:43.359 gonna put four minutes on a clock for you guys, 332 00:19:45.519 --> 00:19:51.799 and we will. Are you guys ready, all right, Bills, 333 00:19:51.799 --> 00:19:52.720 do you have the clock or do you want to 334 00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:55.119 do here? Yeah? Four minutes for this one yea, and 335 00:19:55.119 --> 00:19:56.839 from this point for it's gonna be four minuts. Just 336 00:19:57.319 --> 00:20:01.920 opening statements that we're five. So once you guys start talking, 337 00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:03.839 hit the clock. Just we'll do that, Bills, to make 338 00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:05.359 it easier, once they start talking, hit the clock. 339 00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:10.680 Okay, I guess I'll go first. Here This Milo hundred barsla. 340 00:20:10.759 --> 00:20:16.079 To notice that for this debate, some Shamun had to 341 00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:20.519 create a religion in mockery, something which does not actually exist, 342 00:20:20.920 --> 00:20:24.960 in order to argue against the Muslims. No Muslim believes 343 00:20:25.119 --> 00:20:28.279 that Aloys one hundred and fifteen persons, not even the 344 00:20:28.440 --> 00:20:32.400 Christians who didn't understand Islam like Johnath Damascus, could come 345 00:20:32.480 --> 00:20:35.440 up with something so ridiculous. When we will find that 346 00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:39.200 this is the case in Christian theology, that God is 347 00:20:39.319 --> 00:20:43.519 another being, I mean I do believe that day, I 348 00:20:43.799 --> 00:20:47.680 do think that they believe in what's his name, justin 349 00:20:47.720 --> 00:20:51.319 matter saying that there's another entity. Of course they would 350 00:20:51.359 --> 00:20:53.759 like to revise that, but that's what he literally what 351 00:20:53.920 --> 00:20:57.000 he says. When it comes to New Testament, Jesus says 352 00:20:57.119 --> 00:21:01.960 it's a person cannot have two masters, or rather that 353 00:21:02.039 --> 00:21:04.839 he cannot save two lords. We look at the Jesus 354 00:21:04.839 --> 00:21:07.680 of Teen Testament, he is at odds with the Christian 355 00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:10.480 understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity. We could even 356 00:21:10.519 --> 00:21:13.559 go a step further than this. For us Muslims, yes, 357 00:21:13.640 --> 00:21:17.839 the Koran describes our law in a simple thing, so class. 358 00:21:18.039 --> 00:21:21.400 But from this we get a comprehensive understanding. We say 359 00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:24.359 that this is a joam yo kalam, or speech which 360 00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:28.160 is extensive. You can ask us almost any question about 361 00:21:28.160 --> 00:21:30.480 the nature of all law, and in those fort Shore 362 00:21:30.599 --> 00:21:33.640 passages we can understand it to the point that if 363 00:21:33.640 --> 00:21:36.000 I were to compare this with the Bible, I would 364 00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:39.359 not be able to find four verses that simply and 365 00:21:39.559 --> 00:21:43.400 reasonably explain the nature of God. If God loved us, 366 00:21:43.599 --> 00:21:46.000 we cared for us, and he was merciful for us, 367 00:21:46.359 --> 00:21:49.640 then there's a duty there, a justice where he would 368 00:21:49.720 --> 00:21:53.680 want us to understand him, But our Christian colleagues fundamentally 369 00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:56.920 cannot and do not understand God. I'll give one simple 370 00:21:56.960 --> 00:21:59.519 example here. The God of the Koran was able to 371 00:21:59.519 --> 00:22:03.559 describe it self as one, absolutely one, needing nothing. The 372 00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:08.039 God of the Bible allegedly describes himself as begotten, a 373 00:22:08.119 --> 00:22:10.799 word of which the meaning we cannot know, and which 374 00:22:10.839 --> 00:22:13.359 we know. What's actually changed for those who don't know 375 00:22:13.640 --> 00:22:15.680 the God of the Bible when he says that he 376 00:22:15.720 --> 00:22:19.759 has begotten. This come from the Greek word monogenist. Unfortunately, 377 00:22:20.039 --> 00:22:23.480 that word today is not translated as unique. So if 378 00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:25.759 you're a Christian, does it matter to you that the 379 00:22:25.799 --> 00:22:29.279 Bible does not teach what you actually believe? My friend 380 00:22:29.279 --> 00:22:32.640 here Sam actually teaches that if a thing and I 381 00:22:32.799 --> 00:22:36.200 your belief cannot stand being tested by the Bible, then 382 00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:38.519 it is false. So I would like to ask him, 383 00:22:38.599 --> 00:22:41.279 where is the belief that Jesus is begotten? Using the 384 00:22:41.319 --> 00:22:45.200 Greek of the New Testaments for the Daniel, Yeah. 385 00:22:45.039 --> 00:22:47.480 I just want to say that they did exactly what 386 00:22:47.519 --> 00:22:50.400 I predicted in the opening statement. They wouldn't address the 387 00:22:50.400 --> 00:22:53.119 trinity at all, and the clear logical contradiction of the 388 00:22:53.119 --> 00:22:55.960 Trinity that everyone is aware of they had to bring 389 00:22:56.079 --> 00:22:59.480 up these unrelated issues like the uncreatedness of the Qur'an 390 00:22:59.720 --> 00:23:03.279 or that that God a law has hands, for example, 391 00:23:03.759 --> 00:23:06.480 This has nothing to do with monotheism. Maybe they don't 392 00:23:06.559 --> 00:23:09.559 understand what tohid means. To Haid means one God, it 393 00:23:09.599 --> 00:23:12.200 means monotheism. And this is the claim that we're making 394 00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:16.000 that polytheism is the Trinity. The Trinity is polytheism. So 395 00:23:16.119 --> 00:23:18.720 tell me how I want them to explain. Since their 396 00:23:18.759 --> 00:23:21.480 whole opening statement was bringing up the issue of the 397 00:23:21.880 --> 00:23:26.119 uncreatedness of the Qur'an and the hand of Allah, how 398 00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:30.720 does that contradict monotheism? How does God having a hand? 399 00:23:31.160 --> 00:23:33.480 However you want to explain that hand, it has nothing 400 00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:35.559 to do by the way o it cele Fi or 401 00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:39.359 the other theological schools of Klam and Islam thirty All 402 00:23:39.400 --> 00:23:41.960 of the schools are united on this. All Muslims are 403 00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:45.079 united on this. God having a hand does not mean 404 00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:48.039 that the hand has its own mind, that the hand 405 00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:50.799 is its own entity, its own God, its own person. 406 00:23:51.359 --> 00:23:55.400 No theologian has ever said that there's no challenge to 407 00:23:55.480 --> 00:23:59.319 monotheism of Islam by bringing up the hand or the 408 00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:03.720 on or anything like that, or the shin yeah, and 409 00:24:03.759 --> 00:24:06.640 that again, like you just said perfectly one hundred and 410 00:24:06.680 --> 00:24:10.359 fifteen got like separate gods minds. The Quran doesn't have 411 00:24:10.440 --> 00:24:11.039 its own mind. 412 00:24:11.319 --> 00:24:16.559 That is time, okay, I will turn to a team Christianity. 413 00:24:16.599 --> 00:24:16.799 Here. 414 00:24:17.240 --> 00:24:22.839 This is the bottom of the first round. Here you billsie. 415 00:24:22.839 --> 00:24:24.359 We got the timer for them four minutes again on 416 00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:27.480 the clock. And you guys start speaking, Well, we'll see 417 00:24:27.480 --> 00:24:28.920 at the clock. Once you start speaking, do. 418 00:24:28.839 --> 00:24:31.720 You ask SKay Jay, do you want to go? Do 419 00:24:31.759 --> 00:24:32.279 you want me to go? 420 00:24:32.960 --> 00:24:34.599 Let me have a one or two minutes and now 421 00:24:34.720 --> 00:24:37.440 I'll go it to you. So I did. I did 422 00:24:37.480 --> 00:24:40.319 want to address what Daniel said, because of course he 423 00:24:40.680 --> 00:24:43.880 misstated several things about what our position is. First of all, 424 00:24:43.880 --> 00:24:46.960 the argument about attributes was not that you believe that 425 00:24:46.960 --> 00:24:49.960 their persons. Sam was making an analogy to show that 426 00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:52.880 you have the exact same problem in your position, and 427 00:24:52.920 --> 00:24:54.839 you have a double standard when you try to say 428 00:24:54.839 --> 00:24:57.799 that we have to solve this trinitarian dilemma. It's a contradiction. 429 00:24:58.160 --> 00:25:00.759 But your view of the attributes is is not subject 430 00:25:00.799 --> 00:25:03.440 to that problem. That's just a double standard, was the point. 431 00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:05.799 Nobody said that you believe that the attributes are person, 432 00:25:05.839 --> 00:25:09.039 So that's a misdirection. First of all, didn't he keeps 433 00:25:09.039 --> 00:25:11.160 you already admit that Paul taught the trinity, and I 434 00:25:11.160 --> 00:25:14.519 think it Jaws disagreed with that. So which one is it? 435 00:25:14.559 --> 00:25:16.720 Did Paultae a trinity or did he not? And then 436 00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:20.240 I would also add that Christ does not have a 437 00:25:20.480 --> 00:25:24.440 human person, and that's why the notion about divine mind 438 00:25:25.160 --> 00:25:27.480 is a two minds scenario where he shares a divine 439 00:25:27.480 --> 00:25:29.880 mind with the Father and he has limitations in his 440 00:25:29.960 --> 00:25:31.960 human mind. That's why it's two minds. So you tried 441 00:25:31.960 --> 00:25:33.759 to say that he had one mind and it was 442 00:25:33.839 --> 00:25:37.799 separate knowledge. The expression where he says that he's limited 443 00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:40.799 in knowledge is a reference to rhetoric, and if you 444 00:25:40.839 --> 00:25:43.359 can read Saint Basil letter two thirty four, five and six, 445 00:25:43.400 --> 00:25:45.799 he talks about these issues and explains that just as 446 00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:48.640 Jesus says in other places that there's no one good 447 00:25:48.680 --> 00:25:50.920 but God, he's not literally saying that there's no one 448 00:25:50.960 --> 00:25:53.359 else good, because in other passages he calls himself good, 449 00:25:53.599 --> 00:25:55.519 he calls the Holy Spirit good as well, And so 450 00:25:55.640 --> 00:25:58.160 it's a feature of rhetoric. You have the same types 451 00:25:58.200 --> 00:26:02.519 of expressions in your own chronic exegesis where you try 452 00:26:02.519 --> 00:26:05.039 to solve these dilemmas, but you don't want us to 453 00:26:05.119 --> 00:26:06.720 have that right, Sam will throw it to you. 454 00:26:07.200 --> 00:26:10.400 Yeah, Notice how Daniel conveniently wants to evade what the 455 00:26:10.440 --> 00:26:13.039 topic is. The topic is Trinity versus Toheed, but I 456 00:26:13.079 --> 00:26:15.839 know he can't defend tohate because it's irrational, so he 457 00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:19.559 just wants attack to Trinity, thinking that Toheed wins by default. Daniel, 458 00:26:19.720 --> 00:26:22.240 you're the one who set up the topic Trinity versus Toheed. 459 00:26:22.359 --> 00:26:24.400 You didn't want to do it separately, so stop whining 460 00:26:24.440 --> 00:26:27.240 about it. Now coming back to the issue, Maybe you 461 00:26:27.240 --> 00:26:29.880 didn't hear what I said. The Koran must have a 462 00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:32.440 mind independent from your God if the chron is going 463 00:26:32.480 --> 00:26:35.200 to argue with your God and the individual individual chapters 464 00:26:35.240 --> 00:26:40.240 here Sahei Muslim book four, number seventeen fifty seven. Abumama 465 00:26:40.319 --> 00:26:42.640 said he heard all his messengers say, recite the korn, 466 00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:45.079 for on the day of resurrection, it will come as 467 00:26:45.079 --> 00:26:48.319 an intercessor for those who recited. How does the speech 468 00:26:48.359 --> 00:26:50.200 of a law and recede with a law? If it's 469 00:26:50.200 --> 00:26:51.759 a speech of a law, is all us speaking to 470 00:26:51.799 --> 00:26:54.279 himself in a different mode, then you are a modalist. 471 00:26:54.559 --> 00:26:56.920 So your to heed is modalism, but then it gets worse. 472 00:26:56.920 --> 00:26:59.839 For you recite the two bright ones el Bakara and 473 00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:02.759 to Deman chapters two and three from the Day of Resurrection, 474 00:27:02.799 --> 00:27:04.519 they will come as two clouds or two shades, or 475 00:27:04.519 --> 00:27:06.759 two flocks of birds in ranks, pleading for those who 476 00:27:06.799 --> 00:27:10.000 recite them, pleading with who with themselves. If the serves 477 00:27:10.039 --> 00:27:13.319 of the chron can appear independently, separately and appear in 478 00:27:13.440 --> 00:27:15.960 visible form and argue with the Law, that's either your 479 00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:19.160 God being schizophrenic arguing with himself in different modes, so 480 00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:22.599 you're modalists, or you have now separate gods argue with 481 00:27:22.640 --> 00:27:25.440 one another, so you're a polytheist. Or you have to 482 00:27:25.480 --> 00:27:29.559 believe that toheed encompasses a plurality of distinct entities who 483 00:27:29.599 --> 00:27:32.440 can then interact and argue with one another. So don't 484 00:27:32.519 --> 00:27:35.400 run and evade with your smoke and merit tactics. Deal 485 00:27:35.440 --> 00:27:37.880 with the issue. You didn't understand what I meant about 486 00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:40.200 your God's body parts, even though you don't like to 487 00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:42.640 use the term body parts and know not all the 488 00:27:42.680 --> 00:27:46.720 Sunnieds define the hand of a law as meaning what 489 00:27:46.839 --> 00:27:49.240 you mean. Because you have those that say that it's 490 00:27:49.279 --> 00:27:52.119 a metaphor for his power. You do not believe this, 491 00:27:52.599 --> 00:27:54.440 So I'm still trying to figure out do you believe 492 00:27:54.480 --> 00:27:57.519 in a finite god who assumes time and space? Because 493 00:27:57.519 --> 00:28:00.240 if he has a hand two right hand, that's what 494 00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:02.559 happened to his left. Maybe you can explain he has 495 00:28:02.599 --> 00:28:06.680 a shin, he has loins. That means he's an embodied being. 496 00:28:06.759 --> 00:28:09.440 If he's an embodied being, he requires space unless you 497 00:28:09.440 --> 00:28:15.440 want to create another contradiction with your irrational Celfie anthropomorphism. 498 00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:17.319 Still twenty on the clock, Okay. 499 00:28:17.480 --> 00:28:19.039 Sorry, Yeah, I don't know because I'm trying to speak 500 00:28:19.039 --> 00:28:22.200 past making time. So yeah, Daniel, remember what the topic is. 501 00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:26.039 I know, maybe sometimes being a little intimidated you forget 502 00:28:26.079 --> 00:28:29.880 trinity versus the heat on from shouldering the burden of 503 00:28:29.920 --> 00:28:31.119 proof proof. 504 00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:35.559 All right, so I will turn it back. That completes 505 00:28:35.920 --> 00:28:39.599 round one on Well, yeah, the first set of rounds. 506 00:28:39.759 --> 00:28:42.839 We're going to go into round two of this. For Tim, 507 00:28:42.839 --> 00:28:44.400 I'm going to turn it back to Team Islam here 508 00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:50.400 again with weed versus the Trinity. Daniel, turn it back 509 00:28:50.400 --> 00:28:53.599 to you or EF or either one of you that 510 00:28:53.680 --> 00:28:55.720 wants to take it for four minutes on the clock. 511 00:28:56.759 --> 00:29:01.480 Because this is quite simple. How is it possible that 512 00:29:01.519 --> 00:29:05.319 they don't understand that the Kuran also uses rhetoric. In fact, 513 00:29:05.319 --> 00:29:08.640 in the Koran always says he uses examples of every kind. 514 00:29:08.960 --> 00:29:11.200 So it's not that hard to understand it. But there 515 00:29:11.240 --> 00:29:13.799 is a problem here for j because Ja seems to 516 00:29:13.799 --> 00:29:18.000 think that in Mark thirteen thirty two, this is simple rhetoric. Unfortunately, 517 00:29:18.119 --> 00:29:20.119 describes of the Bible they don't see it that way, 518 00:29:20.319 --> 00:29:23.119 which is why they had to repeatedly change the words 519 00:29:23.160 --> 00:29:26.680 over several centuries. They clearly saw a problem with it. 520 00:29:26.920 --> 00:29:30.359 If there was no problem, why the describes change it. Unfortunately, 521 00:29:30.440 --> 00:29:34.279 Ja describes factually disagree with you. I'm sorry, but someone 522 00:29:34.400 --> 00:29:37.400 later like Saint Basil, trying to allegorize it is not 523 00:29:37.480 --> 00:29:40.440 going to solve the physical problem of your scribes change 524 00:29:40.440 --> 00:29:45.759 in the Bible. Secondly, some seems to not understand basic Islam. 525 00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:48.400 He begins by asking what is the heat? Good question? 526 00:29:48.519 --> 00:29:52.079 Let me teach you. Allah is absolutely one. Allah has 527 00:29:52.160 --> 00:29:56.200 distinct attributes, and Allah does not need anything. He's not 528 00:29:56.319 --> 00:30:00.440 multiple persons. He doesn't rely on anyone or anything other 529 00:30:00.559 --> 00:30:04.720 than himself. He is beginning less and bless me. He's 530 00:30:04.759 --> 00:30:07.400 the first and the last. If I were to ask 531 00:30:07.839 --> 00:30:09.880 the God of the Bible, is he the first on 532 00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:13.480 the last? We know that very recently the scholars at 533 00:30:13.480 --> 00:30:16.920 the ECM have decided that God the Father in Revelation 534 00:30:17.079 --> 00:30:20.400 twenty one six actually became the first on the last. 535 00:30:20.599 --> 00:30:22.680 That's the problem for the Trinity. Do you believe that 536 00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:25.319 God had to become the first on the last? Who 537 00:30:25.359 --> 00:30:27.440 made him the first on the last? For us? That 538 00:30:27.519 --> 00:30:29.880 just seems unvisible nonsense? Danielle. 539 00:30:31.240 --> 00:30:34.599 Yeah. So Sam wants to make a big deal about 540 00:30:34.720 --> 00:30:41.160 the Oran speaking, so he read that hadith. Sam is 541 00:30:41.160 --> 00:30:44.359 not familiar with the Quran. So in chapter thirty six, 542 00:30:44.480 --> 00:30:46.799 verse sixty five, we read in the Quran, on that 543 00:30:46.920 --> 00:30:49.799 day we shall seal up their mouths, but their hands 544 00:30:49.799 --> 00:30:52.240 will speak to us, and their feet their witness to 545 00:30:52.319 --> 00:30:55.599 everything they have done. Does that mean that our hands 546 00:30:55.640 --> 00:30:59.559 and feet have minds? Did any Muslim in history ever 547 00:30:59.640 --> 00:31:02.720 interpret that verse that the hands and feet of our 548 00:31:02.799 --> 00:31:06.119 own bodies have minds? Yet they will speak for or 549 00:31:06.200 --> 00:31:09.400 against us on the day of judgment. So this is 550 00:31:10.240 --> 00:31:12.880 an interpretation that he has that no one has ever 551 00:31:12.920 --> 00:31:16.799 made in the history of Islam. But many Christians and 552 00:31:16.880 --> 00:31:21.480 theologians and Church fathers have debated and discussed the knowledge 553 00:31:21.559 --> 00:31:23.960 of the of Jesus being different from the knowledge of 554 00:31:23.960 --> 00:31:27.400 the Father and the will of Jesus being different from 555 00:31:27.440 --> 00:31:31.720 the will of the Father. Jesus has a separate human 556 00:31:31.880 --> 00:31:36.000 will and this is what they will not explain. Also, 557 00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:42.960 so yeah, explain that problem. That contradiction God having a hand. 558 00:31:43.079 --> 00:31:47.000 Guess what, that's a problem for the Trinity as well, 559 00:31:47.079 --> 00:31:51.759 because the New Testament in Acts seven fifty five describes 560 00:31:51.839 --> 00:31:55.440 Jesus as standing at the right hand of the Father. 561 00:31:55.960 --> 00:31:58.480 So what is the right hand of the Father? Is 562 00:31:58.519 --> 00:32:01.359 that in space? Does the Father have a body? Can 563 00:32:01.400 --> 00:32:04.599 you explain that? What is the hand the right hand 564 00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:07.000 of the Father? Does he have a left hand? Does 565 00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:09.720 the Father have a body? Like does the Father have 566 00:32:09.799 --> 00:32:14.839 two sides? Explain that verse within Acts and that's in 567 00:32:14.880 --> 00:32:18.160 the New Testament. So I'm very interested to understand if 568 00:32:18.160 --> 00:32:21.720 this is a corporeal, physical Father or not, or what 569 00:32:21.759 --> 00:32:24.079 does the Bible mean? Do we have an explanation of that? 570 00:32:24.519 --> 00:32:27.240 So this it doesn't matter if you take the hand 571 00:32:27.240 --> 00:32:29.640 of God to be metaphorical, if you take it to 572 00:32:29.720 --> 00:32:33.680 be be la caf meaning without modality, that doesn't contradict 573 00:32:33.720 --> 00:32:37.920 O hate it doesn't contradict monotheism. Explain how having a 574 00:32:37.960 --> 00:32:40.920 hand God having a hand means that it's not monotheism. 575 00:32:41.480 --> 00:32:42.240 That's what you can't do. 576 00:32:45.039 --> 00:32:45.160 Right. 577 00:32:45.200 --> 00:32:48.640 You want me to go time? 578 00:32:50.440 --> 00:32:55.160 Yeah? Ten seconds, but it's swizzling down now? Yeah? 579 00:32:55.279 --> 00:32:57.440 Do you want you want me to let me ask 580 00:32:57.480 --> 00:32:58.839 ja though, because we don't know, you havet me to 581 00:32:58.839 --> 00:33:00.559 split the time with you. You're me to take four minutes. 582 00:33:00.799 --> 00:33:02.680 I've got I need about one or two minutes. You 583 00:33:02.680 --> 00:33:03.039 can go ahead. 584 00:33:03.200 --> 00:33:04.920 Why don't you go with your one two minutes. 585 00:33:04.599 --> 00:33:06.559 Before you guys go Dan? Did you get everything out 586 00:33:06.559 --> 00:33:08.119 that you needed to get there? Because I think there 587 00:33:08.200 --> 00:33:09.480 might have been a confusion on the time. 588 00:33:10.519 --> 00:33:12.200 Yeah, I got everything out, thinks okay, all. 589 00:33:12.160 --> 00:33:13.680 Right, cool, I just want to make sure it's all good. 590 00:33:13.759 --> 00:33:15.240 All right, Jay, you're getting to kick it off on 591 00:33:15.279 --> 00:33:15.799 this one. 592 00:33:16.480 --> 00:33:20.680 Right, So going back to the text about uh are 593 00:33:20.680 --> 00:33:21.039 you ready? 594 00:33:21.599 --> 00:33:22.519 Yeah? Yeah, go ahead. 595 00:33:22.519 --> 00:33:24.680 Well, going back to the text about the limitation of 596 00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:28.200 Jesus knowledge, he said the scribes changed it. If the 597 00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:30.359 scribes changed it, why is it still in the text 598 00:33:30.440 --> 00:33:34.839 talking about the exaggeration of the limitation of his knowledge? 599 00:33:35.039 --> 00:33:38.200 When I said exaggeration rhetoric, I didn't say allegory. So 600 00:33:38.240 --> 00:33:40.839 I don't think you as knows the difference between the 601 00:33:40.920 --> 00:33:44.440 grammatical terms of exaggeration and allegory. I did not say 602 00:33:44.480 --> 00:33:47.480 it's an allegory. It's similar to other passages where Jesus 603 00:33:47.559 --> 00:33:50.759 talks about straining in that swallowing camels. This is called 604 00:33:51.160 --> 00:33:53.759 it's called exaggeration. And so in the same way he 605 00:33:53.799 --> 00:33:56.839 can say no one is good but God. Okay, nobody 606 00:33:56.880 --> 00:33:59.680 believes that that literally means that there's literally no one good. 607 00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:03.279 Like the prophets weren't good, Jesus isn't good, the Spirit 608 00:34:03.279 --> 00:34:05.440 doesn't good. Out he's talking about no one is good 609 00:34:05.480 --> 00:34:08.000 but God the Father in a specific sense of God 610 00:34:08.039 --> 00:34:10.400 being the Father, being the archae the principle of the 611 00:34:10.400 --> 00:34:12.360 fount and the cause. The last thing I'll say is 612 00:34:12.360 --> 00:34:15.719 that we're not subject to the same problems as you guys, well, 613 00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:19.519 particularly Daniel, because we don't have the anthropomorphic error about 614 00:34:19.519 --> 00:34:22.920 God the Father. So what we believe about the mode 615 00:34:22.920 --> 00:34:25.519 of the Son coming into time and space. You have 616 00:34:25.599 --> 00:34:28.960 that same issue with Allah himself. You're saying that Allah 617 00:34:28.960 --> 00:34:31.760 has these parts which you say or attributes. And by 618 00:34:31.800 --> 00:34:34.800 the way, don't you two disagree on the status of 619 00:34:34.840 --> 00:34:36.400 those attributes between yourselves. 620 00:34:37.239 --> 00:34:40.440 Go ahead, Sam, Yeah, let me piggyback off the what 621 00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:43.360 he just said. Now, he was talking about that the 622 00:34:43.400 --> 00:34:46.400 Krown talks about hands and in speaking, they don't have minds. 623 00:34:46.559 --> 00:34:48.519 How do you know that? Where did the text tell 624 00:34:48.519 --> 00:34:51.840 you that? Notice his appeal to a forty He says, well, normals, 625 00:34:51.920 --> 00:34:54.039 some scholar, Yes, I know you live in denial, just 626 00:34:54.079 --> 00:34:56.119 like you live in denial that your pagans and polity 627 00:34:56.199 --> 00:34:59.360 is for a variety of issues, especially kissing the black Stone. 628 00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:02.480 It doesn't matter what your scholar says. What you can prove. 629 00:35:02.559 --> 00:35:04.800 So prove to me that when hands and feet are speak, 630 00:35:05.119 --> 00:35:07.880 they're mindless. So now let's take your analogy with the kron. 631 00:35:08.280 --> 00:35:11.679 So mindless Koran will be engaging a law. So you're 632 00:35:11.679 --> 00:35:14.280 going to have the chron engaging with a law even 633 00:35:14.320 --> 00:35:15.840 though it doesn't have a mind of its own. So 634 00:35:15.880 --> 00:35:18.119 now we're back to square one. If the chron is 635 00:35:18.119 --> 00:35:20.679 the speech of a law, how does Allah's speech speak 636 00:35:20.679 --> 00:35:23.119 to himself? Is Allah speaking to himself but in a 637 00:35:23.159 --> 00:35:25.840 different mode. You didn't answer that dilemma. Now, coming back 638 00:35:25.840 --> 00:35:29.039 to the issue of God in the right hand, unlike you, 639 00:35:31.280 --> 00:35:35.320 according to the scriptures, unlike your position as a selfie anthropomorphist. 640 00:35:36.039 --> 00:35:37.960 The Bible says God is spirit. So I'm going to 641 00:35:38.079 --> 00:35:39.559 challenge you to show me your chrown and sone where 642 00:35:39.559 --> 00:35:41.679 it says you're alla a spirit and in the context 643 00:35:41.679 --> 00:35:43.840 of John four twenty four, God a spirit, meaning that 644 00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:47.280 he is bodyless in corporeal because he's the creator of 645 00:35:47.280 --> 00:35:51.400 heavens and earth, but that God can appear visibly. God 646 00:35:51.480 --> 00:35:54.400 the Father appears visibly in heaven. That's Daniel seven nine, 647 00:35:54.639 --> 00:35:57.920 verses ten, Chapter seven, verse nine to ten, Revelation chapter four. 648 00:35:58.199 --> 00:36:00.199 So when it says that Jesus and his glora fight, 649 00:36:00.280 --> 00:36:05.039 physical body enters this heavenly realm where angels dwell, Heaven 650 00:36:05.199 --> 00:36:09.000 itself is created, and God can manifest in heaven and 651 00:36:09.119 --> 00:36:13.239 Jesus physically being seen by the heavens of heaven, sitting 652 00:36:13.239 --> 00:36:15.280 at the right hand of the Father who appears visibly. 653 00:36:15.360 --> 00:36:17.159 But you don't believe that about the body parts of 654 00:36:17.199 --> 00:36:21.480 your God. You're not like Ijaza Maturidi. You believe your 655 00:36:21.480 --> 00:36:23.880 God has two right hands. Where's the left one? I'm 656 00:36:23.880 --> 00:36:27.079 still waiting for the answer. He has loins, he has 657 00:36:27.079 --> 00:36:29.119 his shin, and he's going to put his foot overhead, 658 00:36:29.400 --> 00:36:31.840 and then you have the womb yanking on his loins 659 00:36:32.039 --> 00:36:33.880 that's inside bukati. How many seconds do I have? 660 00:36:35.559 --> 00:36:38.719 You got fifty seconds? You're good, keep going fifty fifty seconds. 661 00:36:38.760 --> 00:36:44.559 Yes, So now come back and address your polytheistic pagan beliefs. 662 00:36:45.119 --> 00:36:50.119 Since the chapters of the Koran can appear separately invisible form, 663 00:36:50.519 --> 00:36:53.480 and they are interceding with the law, they're disputing with 664 00:36:53.519 --> 00:36:56.239 the law. How if the Koran is a speech of 665 00:36:56.320 --> 00:36:56.719 a law? 666 00:36:56.880 --> 00:37:00.320 Time on, no, No, thirty thirty. I'm just saying, how is. 667 00:37:00.280 --> 00:37:03.559 The how is the Koran? How are the individual serves 668 00:37:03.559 --> 00:37:06.559 of the Koran disputing with the law? According to you, 669 00:37:06.599 --> 00:37:09.480 no one thinks they have a mind, So mindless surahs 670 00:37:10.440 --> 00:37:14.480 have the mind enough to know who recites them? Who 671 00:37:14.519 --> 00:37:17.639 would defend an argue on behalf of and argue with 672 00:37:17.639 --> 00:37:19.480 a law? Well, this is supposedly speech of a law. 673 00:37:19.559 --> 00:37:23.079 So is you're all law speaking to himself schizophrenic deity? Anyway, 674 00:37:23.079 --> 00:37:23.800 I think my time is up. 675 00:37:23.800 --> 00:37:27.880 Go ahead, Okay, that is that is time now, So 676 00:37:28.239 --> 00:37:31.000 we're gonna go into round three now. This is the 677 00:37:31.039 --> 00:37:34.599 final round of Tawied versus Trinity. This is the top 678 00:37:34.599 --> 00:37:37.880 of the last round four minutes on the clock. I'll 679 00:37:37.880 --> 00:37:40.800 turn into Team Islam here. Whenever you guys go, we'll 680 00:37:40.840 --> 00:37:41.519 start the timer. 681 00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:49.199 You John go, Yeah, this is quite easy. So none 682 00:37:49.239 --> 00:37:52.199 of these points defeat us for Islam, nor do they 683 00:37:52.320 --> 00:37:55.400 change or attack with Muslims actually believe. Notice the struw 684 00:37:55.480 --> 00:37:57.880 men that they have to create. They have to think 685 00:37:58.000 --> 00:38:00.719 that these are parts of all lot. Even some admitted, 686 00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:03.280 you don't use this language. So if we don't use 687 00:38:03.280 --> 00:38:05.639 that language, we don't describe it that way, we don't 688 00:38:05.679 --> 00:38:08.039 teach it that way. Why is your opinion of how 689 00:38:08.119 --> 00:38:10.559 you read it? In a very Christian way? I would 690 00:38:10.559 --> 00:38:13.440 say it's very natural for you to create different persons 691 00:38:13.440 --> 00:38:16.960 for God. That's the very definition of schizophrenia. Let's get 692 00:38:17.000 --> 00:38:20.960 something straight here. Jay is incorrect. He made the statement, Well, 693 00:38:21.360 --> 00:38:23.159 if it's so there in the Bible for market in 694 00:38:23.239 --> 00:38:25.639 Jty two that Jesus does don't know the day or 695 00:38:25.679 --> 00:38:29.280 the hour, what does that mean that describes changed it? Yes, 696 00:38:29.360 --> 00:38:32.039 the scribes actually changed the meaning of the term. And 697 00:38:32.159 --> 00:38:36.440 what the academics have gone and done is translate and 698 00:38:36.480 --> 00:38:39.599 they've tried to fix under just what diverse means, because 699 00:38:39.639 --> 00:38:41.960 it occurs twice in the Bible and in the two 700 00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:44.719 places where Jesus has no knowledge of the day or 701 00:38:44.760 --> 00:38:47.840 the hour described, try to amend it. There is no 702 00:38:47.920 --> 00:38:50.480 text to a critical life today. Who will not testify 703 00:38:50.559 --> 00:38:52.960 to that? So I put it back to j Let's 704 00:38:52.960 --> 00:38:56.119 look at the manuscripts. Sam says that your manuscripts are 705 00:38:56.119 --> 00:38:58.880 from the fourth century and Verberton. He says that the 706 00:38:59.280 --> 00:39:02.960 problem because the further they go back, the more that 707 00:39:03.000 --> 00:39:09.639 they disagree. And this refers to cordectxcited, curs, Vardicanus, alexandrenas, fremi, rescriptors, 708 00:39:09.639 --> 00:39:12.599 et cetera. He says that it's a problem, So peace 709 00:39:12.679 --> 00:39:16.480 address the problem. Please answer how God can be ignorant? 710 00:39:16.679 --> 00:39:19.719 Please answer how God can not move things? That is 711 00:39:19.760 --> 00:39:22.960 a God who is fundamentally agile. Lastly, on this point 712 00:39:23.679 --> 00:39:27.119 of all not having parts, Muslims don't believe that Muslims 713 00:39:27.119 --> 00:39:29.480 do not see as well that when the day of 714 00:39:29.559 --> 00:39:33.719 judgment comes and things testify, parts testify, that these mean 715 00:39:33.880 --> 00:39:35.719 that they are the mind of all that No one 716 00:39:35.760 --> 00:39:37.360 says that, Daniel. 717 00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:40.440 Yes, there's a lot to say here. They keep saying 718 00:39:40.440 --> 00:39:42.239 that I'm sell a fie this and sell a fee 719 00:39:42.239 --> 00:39:45.159 that me and Ijaz are on the same page. On 720 00:39:45.280 --> 00:39:47.239 all of these issues. You don't have to be a 721 00:39:47.239 --> 00:39:51.039 particular school of Islamic thought to defend or heat. So 722 00:39:51.119 --> 00:39:54.280 you keep projecting this onto us because you have no 723 00:39:54.360 --> 00:39:57.679 way to respond to our argument. And it's interesting that 724 00:39:57.719 --> 00:40:01.880 you're bringing up sects because he has claimed that Catholics 725 00:40:01.880 --> 00:40:06.039 are modalists, that they're heretics, and that basically they are deviant. 726 00:40:06.280 --> 00:40:08.960 So what does Jay have to say about Catholics. He 727 00:40:09.039 --> 00:40:11.400 thinks that you're a deviant and a heretic, Sam, and 728 00:40:11.480 --> 00:40:13.840 maybe that you're going to hell. So did you clarify 729 00:40:13.960 --> 00:40:17.079 that with Jay before you even agree to this debate? 730 00:40:17.559 --> 00:40:20.519 Second of all, for Sam, look at what Luke nineteen 731 00:40:20.599 --> 00:40:23.599 forty says, I tell you, he replied, If they keep quiet, 732 00:40:23.599 --> 00:40:26.519 the stones will cry out, stones will cry out. According 733 00:40:26.559 --> 00:40:29.800 to the New Testament, do the stones have mines? Isaiah 734 00:40:29.880 --> 00:40:31.960 fifty five twelve, You will go out in joy and 735 00:40:31.960 --> 00:40:34.159 be led forth in peace. The mountains and the hills 736 00:40:34.199 --> 00:40:37.079 will burst into song before you, and all the trees 737 00:40:37.079 --> 00:40:40.000 of the field will clap their hands. Does that mean 738 00:40:40.039 --> 00:40:43.480 that the hills and the trees have mines? Sam explained that, 739 00:40:43.639 --> 00:40:46.960 Or how about Psalm ninety eight eight, Let the rivers 740 00:40:47.000 --> 00:40:50.119 clap their hands. Let the mountains sing together for joy. 741 00:40:50.199 --> 00:40:52.719 Does that mean that the rivers have hands and they're 742 00:40:52.719 --> 00:40:55.920 clapping for joy? Do they have mines? Sam Please explain 743 00:40:56.000 --> 00:40:58.440 all of those verses. You want to have that kind 744 00:40:58.480 --> 00:41:02.599 of understanding of mountains, rivers and whatever, and you say that, 745 00:41:02.800 --> 00:41:05.559 you'll say that these are not minds. But the problem 746 00:41:05.639 --> 00:41:08.360 with the trinity is that Jesus has a separate mind 747 00:41:08.519 --> 00:41:11.559 than the Father. The Father has a separate mind from Jesus. 748 00:41:12.119 --> 00:41:14.280 They both have a separate mind from the Holy Spirit. 749 00:41:14.360 --> 00:41:18.880 That means they're three separate entities and therefore three separate gods. 750 00:41:19.079 --> 00:41:22.440 This is polytheism. We don't have that problem in Islam. 751 00:41:22.599 --> 00:41:25.360 The Quran doesn't have its own mind. There's no one 752 00:41:25.400 --> 00:41:28.559 who ever has thought the Quran has its own mind 753 00:41:28.639 --> 00:41:31.119 that is separate from God. But this is what you're 754 00:41:31.119 --> 00:41:33.559 trying to claim, not based on any text, not based 755 00:41:33.559 --> 00:41:37.920 on any hadith. This is just your assertion based on nothing. 756 00:41:38.320 --> 00:41:41.119 So address the trinity. Why can't you address the trinity? 757 00:41:41.159 --> 00:41:43.960 You have to raise these straw men against Islam. It 758 00:41:44.159 --> 00:41:45.559 sounds kind of ridiculous. 759 00:41:45.559 --> 00:41:49.440 Frankly, Jae, you want me to take it? Uh? 760 00:41:49.599 --> 00:41:52.000 You guys still got Muslims. You guys are done. You've 761 00:41:52.079 --> 00:41:53.760 only got one forty two left. You still got one 762 00:41:53.760 --> 00:41:54.199 forty two that. 763 00:41:55.320 --> 00:41:58.000 Yeah, So I just want to emphasize that they did 764 00:41:58.039 --> 00:42:01.239 not address the Trinity at all. We addressed all of 765 00:42:01.280 --> 00:42:05.159 their complaints against the Quran, against Monotheism, against to heat. 766 00:42:05.440 --> 00:42:08.239 They haven't even started to defend the Trinity. So this 767 00:42:08.360 --> 00:42:10.960 is a fail. What we can do and Sam proof 768 00:42:11.039 --> 00:42:12.559 for Christians? Okay, go ahead? 769 00:42:12.719 --> 00:42:12.920 Yeah? 770 00:42:13.000 --> 00:42:14.960 Could I point out as well, they didn't address the 771 00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:19.360 problem of Jesus' status has been begotten being changed in 772 00:42:19.440 --> 00:42:23.239 the actual text. Okay, seems you've missing the point that 773 00:42:23.320 --> 00:42:27.280 some admitted was a problem. Sam says that the manuscripts 774 00:42:27.280 --> 00:42:30.119 from the fourth century are a problem. He says, critics 775 00:42:30.119 --> 00:42:37.000 and because it's and heresies, real quick, defend this year. 776 00:42:37.320 --> 00:42:38.800 So this will do, This will do, This will do. 777 00:42:39.519 --> 00:42:41.159 Since you guys still have some time on the clock 778 00:42:41.159 --> 00:42:42.800 and it seems like this is you guys kind of 779 00:42:42.800 --> 00:42:44.199 want to have a little bit of a dialogue here. 780 00:42:44.199 --> 00:42:46.960 If you guys want, I'm going to have Team Christianity 781 00:42:46.960 --> 00:42:48.199 go right now. I'm going to give them their full 782 00:42:48.239 --> 00:42:50.039 four minutes, and then what we can do is if 783 00:42:50.079 --> 00:42:52.039 you guys want. I could put another three or four 784 00:42:52.039 --> 00:42:54.400 minutes on the clock where we'll finish off this round 785 00:42:54.440 --> 00:42:57.840 with Tweed versus Trinity, where you guys have open dialogue 786 00:42:57.840 --> 00:42:58.280 with each other and. 787 00:42:58.239 --> 00:43:01.159 I could perform better and I can corner them they 788 00:43:01.199 --> 00:43:01.719 can't run. 789 00:43:01.760 --> 00:43:03.440 Okay, So that's what I'll do. So I'll give you 790 00:43:03.480 --> 00:43:05.719 four minutes on a clock. Are well, Team Aslam? Are 791 00:43:05.719 --> 00:43:07.079 you guys okay with that? Do you guys want that? 792 00:43:07.280 --> 00:43:09.679 Because it seems like you guys want open dialogue here. 793 00:43:09.960 --> 00:43:10.719 Yeah, that's what we want. 794 00:43:10.880 --> 00:43:13.800 You guys, what you want? Okay? Cool? So to give 795 00:43:13.840 --> 00:43:16.000 to people what they want, this is what you guys want. Awesome. 796 00:43:16.159 --> 00:43:17.960 So Tim Christiana will put four minutes on a clock 797 00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:21.239 for you guys, and then after this we'll do either 798 00:43:21.280 --> 00:43:23.639 three between three to five minutes. What do you guys decide? 799 00:43:23.760 --> 00:43:26.599 I'll just open dialog between the four of you. So 800 00:43:26.800 --> 00:43:29.320 I'll perform minutes on the clock here. Whenever you guys 801 00:43:29.360 --> 00:43:30.880 are ready, go ahead and we'll start the clock. 802 00:43:31.960 --> 00:43:33.239 Lad Jay, you want to go first? 803 00:43:33.239 --> 00:43:33.920 Suh? 804 00:43:34.159 --> 00:43:38.199 Yeah? So again, Jesus doesn't have a separate divine mind. 805 00:43:38.239 --> 00:43:40.559 He shares the same divine mind as the Father, and 806 00:43:40.599 --> 00:43:43.639 when he assumed human nature. He assumed a human mind. 807 00:43:43.719 --> 00:43:46.559 That's part of the fullness of human nature. So we 808 00:43:46.599 --> 00:43:49.239 don't say that he's separate, just like the persons of 809 00:43:49.280 --> 00:43:52.400 the Trinity are distinct but not separate, just like you 810 00:43:52.480 --> 00:43:55.559 believe attributes are distinct, not separate. Now, I know that 811 00:43:55.599 --> 00:43:58.199 you can't seem to follow the fact that we're not 812 00:43:58.360 --> 00:44:01.599 saying you believe the attributes actually have minds. We're just 813 00:44:01.639 --> 00:44:04.880 pointing out that you have the same metaphysical problem that 814 00:44:04.920 --> 00:44:08.880 you have a double standard for saying I'm not liable 815 00:44:08.920 --> 00:44:11.519 to explain that, you have to explain it. And then 816 00:44:11.559 --> 00:44:13.800 when we bring that up, every one of your responses 817 00:44:13.840 --> 00:44:16.199 on that is a two quote way. Well, doesn't the 818 00:44:16.239 --> 00:44:18.960 Bible talk about body parts? Doesn't the Bible? Yeah, but 819 00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:21.400 we don't have the same metaphysical problems as you because 820 00:44:21.400 --> 00:44:23.800 we don't have the same metaphysics. So but you don't 821 00:44:23.800 --> 00:44:25.400 seem to be able to follow that. So that's a 822 00:44:25.400 --> 00:44:28.599 two quot way. But other than that, the other thing 823 00:44:28.599 --> 00:44:30.960 I would just reply to is that you jas kept 824 00:44:31.000 --> 00:44:32.960 saying that all of the scholars and in the world 825 00:44:33.039 --> 00:44:35.400 believe this, so there's not a single one that would disagree. 826 00:44:35.559 --> 00:44:37.880 Has he read all of the scholars. He asserted all 827 00:44:37.880 --> 00:44:40.559 of these things. He says, the scribes changed it, yet 828 00:44:40.599 --> 00:44:43.840 it's still there in the text. So he's just asserting 829 00:44:43.880 --> 00:44:46.119 these things. We don't know where he's where this is 830 00:44:46.159 --> 00:44:48.440 coming from. These are all assertions. Go ahead, So. 831 00:44:49.039 --> 00:44:52.039 Yeah, we will get into scripture authenticity the second part. 832 00:44:52.039 --> 00:44:53.719 But he wants to change a topic because it's too 833 00:44:53.760 --> 00:44:55.960 hot for him. And in the second part he just 834 00:44:55.960 --> 00:44:58.000 proved Mohammed as a false prophet, and he is, but 835 00:44:58.039 --> 00:45:00.280 for other reasons. But let me come and address guys. 836 00:45:00.280 --> 00:45:02.280 You see how desperate Daniel is. And he's talking about 837 00:45:02.760 --> 00:45:05.840 we're evading the topic. Read Luke nineteen three eight to forty. 838 00:45:06.159 --> 00:45:08.159 Let me show you the context as my time is fleeding. There, 839 00:45:08.280 --> 00:45:11.360 Jesus is being praised by children and the scholars are 840 00:45:11.400 --> 00:45:13.280 saying rebuke them. He goes, well, if they were silent, 841 00:45:13.320 --> 00:45:16.039 even the stones were cry out anyone with any common sense, 842 00:45:16.079 --> 00:45:19.119 but understand it's hard for them to read a text 843 00:45:19.400 --> 00:45:23.800 in its literary context. He's using hyperbole that even if 844 00:45:23.880 --> 00:45:26.880 they don't praise me, creation will praise me. That's exactly 845 00:45:26.920 --> 00:45:30.159 the context of the Psalms. The Psalmist, which is politic literature, 846 00:45:30.559 --> 00:45:34.840 is personifying creation to show that all creation glorifies God 847 00:45:34.840 --> 00:45:38.199 because creation is a testimony to the greatness and existence 848 00:45:38.239 --> 00:45:41.559 of God. Nice try with that false analogy, But I 849 00:45:41.599 --> 00:45:43.960 want him now when I engage you, I'm when I 850 00:45:44.000 --> 00:45:47.519 ask you, so, are you saying to me that when 851 00:45:47.800 --> 00:45:51.679 the Hadeed not your Quran says that thesaurus will intercede 852 00:45:51.719 --> 00:45:54.960 with the law that's not literal. Are you saying to 853 00:45:55.000 --> 00:45:57.639 me when the Koran will intercede with the law that's 854 00:45:57.679 --> 00:46:00.199 not literal? I hope you say that. And on top 855 00:46:00.199 --> 00:46:02.159 of that, what do you do with the Hadiz where 856 00:46:02.159 --> 00:46:05.840 it says the trees greeted your profit, stones greeted your 857 00:46:05.840 --> 00:46:09.000 profit and at the last day a stone will crowd saying, Hey, 858 00:46:09.000 --> 00:46:11.159 there's a Yahoo behind me, come and kill him. Are 859 00:46:11.159 --> 00:46:14.920 you going to allegorize those statements, Daniel hakika Chu, I 860 00:46:14.960 --> 00:46:16.719 hope not, because I'm going to have a field day 861 00:46:17.159 --> 00:46:19.039 at your expense. And what are you going to do 862 00:46:19.119 --> 00:46:22.199 with chapter forty seven, verse twenty two of the Koran 863 00:46:22.519 --> 00:46:25.239 When you go to Bukhati, your prophet says there's a 864 00:46:25.280 --> 00:46:31.039 primordial rachem womb that yanked on your God's gonads, and 865 00:46:31.079 --> 00:46:35.079 he said stop stop. Are you going to allegorize that too, 866 00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:38.760 the fact that your God has loins, the fact that 867 00:46:38.800 --> 00:46:43.320 there is a womb yanking on his gonads, which is 868 00:46:43.559 --> 00:46:48.079 actually in BUKHATI cited even in Imocathar. You're comparing apples 869 00:46:48.119 --> 00:46:50.760 and pineapples. Because the debate is over, you can't defend 870 00:46:50.800 --> 00:46:55.559 your irrational, incoherent sell a feebabbel. And yes, I know 871 00:46:55.840 --> 00:46:58.920 you don't want to say the hand is literal in 872 00:46:58.960 --> 00:47:01.119 the sense that it's a hand, my hand. But I 873 00:47:01.199 --> 00:47:04.039 want to hear you from your own mouth, Daniel, Are 874 00:47:04.039 --> 00:47:07.079 you telling me that almost hand is a metaphor for power? 875 00:47:07.159 --> 00:47:09.599 I want to hear it. Are you gonna say, build 876 00:47:09.719 --> 00:47:12.480 a cave? It's a hand. We know it's a hand. 877 00:47:12.519 --> 00:47:15.599 It's unlike anything. We don't know how, but it's a hand. 878 00:47:15.920 --> 00:47:18.920 Because your God is not the true god. Your God 879 00:47:19.119 --> 00:47:21.559 is the figment of Muhammed's imagination. How much time I have? 880 00:47:22.840 --> 00:47:23.599 Thirteen seconds? 881 00:47:23.679 --> 00:47:26.440 So now an interaction. Get ready, boys, I know you 882 00:47:26.480 --> 00:47:28.840 want to change the subject. We're gonna say you're gonnadjust 883 00:47:28.840 --> 00:47:29.880 these issues, so let's it go. 884 00:47:30.400 --> 00:47:34.480 All right? Okay, So do you guys want three minutes, 885 00:47:34.480 --> 00:47:36.960 four minutes or five minutes for open dialogue between the 886 00:47:37.000 --> 00:47:41.480 four of you. Five minutes. Okay, can we put five 887 00:47:41.519 --> 00:47:45.360 minutes on the clock please, Bills. So what we're gonna 888 00:47:45.400 --> 00:47:47.960 do here, guys, is we're gonna have it just open dialogue. 889 00:47:47.960 --> 00:47:50.519 We're on the topic of Trinity versus dot Weed, and 890 00:47:50.519 --> 00:47:53.239 then we're gonna go into scripture next to authenticity for 891 00:47:53.280 --> 00:47:57.199 the next round. So I will go ahead. Who wants 892 00:47:57.199 --> 00:48:00.159 to kick it off first? I guess we want to 893 00:48:00.199 --> 00:48:02.760 do that, Jay for me or our team. 894 00:48:02.599 --> 00:48:05.599 Is like, I mean, the textual stuff is round two. 895 00:48:05.599 --> 00:48:07.039 I don't know why he just but the whole time 896 00:48:07.199 --> 00:48:07.960 because you can't. 897 00:48:07.760 --> 00:48:08.119 Deal with the. 898 00:48:10.440 --> 00:48:13.239 Bible. The Bible. 899 00:48:14.800 --> 00:48:18.800 Yeah, okay, Okay, so I want to know, I want 900 00:48:18.800 --> 00:48:22.840 to know, hold on, hold on. What I'm going to 901 00:48:22.880 --> 00:48:24.719 do is I'll just have someone who wants to kick 902 00:48:24.760 --> 00:48:26.519 off the first question of this open dialog, and I'm 903 00:48:26.519 --> 00:48:31.199 going to start the timer. Who wants to do it? Nobody? 904 00:48:31.320 --> 00:48:34.159 Okay, Well let me know, I'll do it, Okay, Sam, I'm. 905 00:48:34.079 --> 00:48:35.960 Going to turn the clock on once you go, uh, 906 00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:38.079 and then this open downlogue between the four of you, guys, 907 00:48:38.079 --> 00:48:39.679 try please not to interrupt each other so they can 908 00:48:39.679 --> 00:48:41.320 hear you because of zoom. So they really won't be 909 00:48:41.320 --> 00:48:43.480 able to hear you if you guys interrupt each other. So, uh, 910 00:48:43.519 --> 00:48:44.960 go ahead, Samuell kick it off with you God. 911 00:48:45.079 --> 00:48:47.400 Yeah, Daniel, I want to hear from your own mouth 912 00:48:48.000 --> 00:48:50.760 the yaha a law? Is it a metaphor for his power? 913 00:48:51.800 --> 00:48:54.000 It can be a metaphor for his power. It can 914 00:48:54.079 --> 00:48:57.719 be interpreted in many different ways. It does not contradict. 915 00:48:57.760 --> 00:49:00.840 It does not contradict, so hate. It does not contrad monotheism. 916 00:49:01.280 --> 00:49:03.920 You can have an shary position and interpret it as 917 00:49:03.920 --> 00:49:07.039 a metaphor, or you can have a thirty position and 918 00:49:07.599 --> 00:49:10.320 differently that explained to me? How it contradicts? 919 00:49:10.840 --> 00:49:10.880 You? 920 00:49:11.440 --> 00:49:11.599 Can? 921 00:49:11.639 --> 00:49:13.880 You? Can you explain to me? I answered your question? 922 00:49:14.360 --> 00:49:16.800 How does how does a hand? How does God having 923 00:49:16.800 --> 00:49:21.880 a hand? However it's interpreted contradict monotheism? Can you explain this? 924 00:49:22.440 --> 00:49:22.599 How? 925 00:49:22.719 --> 00:49:26.119 How does how does having a hand? How does a hand? Contradict? 926 00:49:26.320 --> 00:49:29.599 Tell me monotheism? Explain it? No, you asked me questions 927 00:49:29.639 --> 00:49:32.519 open dialogue. You asked me a question and I answered you. 928 00:49:32.920 --> 00:49:35.760 Now answer my question? Are you I answered your question? 929 00:49:35.960 --> 00:49:38.239 I answered your question. Now you answer my question? 930 00:49:38.960 --> 00:49:39.519 Your position? 931 00:49:39.920 --> 00:49:46.880 What what you I've studied. 932 00:49:45.480 --> 00:49:46.960 You've studied it. You won't say your position? 933 00:49:47.320 --> 00:49:48.239 Are you what? 934 00:49:48.360 --> 00:49:50.880 I have studied all of them. It's irrelevant debates. 935 00:49:54.039 --> 00:49:55.519 Study to the. 936 00:49:55.480 --> 00:50:00.440 Topic, Stick to the topic. Explained to me, moderator operator. 937 00:50:00.440 --> 00:50:02.960 He doesn't let me answer the question. Doesn't let me 938 00:50:03.000 --> 00:50:03.719 answer the question. 939 00:50:04.239 --> 00:50:06.320 No, because you're not. You're you're doing a dodgeball. 940 00:50:06.639 --> 00:50:09.599 Let me answer. This is not this is not you 941 00:50:09.599 --> 00:50:12.159 don't have to like my answer. This is not interrogation. 942 00:50:12.280 --> 00:50:15.519 This is not cross examination. You already asked me one question. 943 00:50:15.599 --> 00:50:20.360 Let me ask you a question, now, Jay, is Catholicism modalism? 944 00:50:20.639 --> 00:50:21.400 Is it a heresy? 945 00:50:22.199 --> 00:50:22.400 Yes? 946 00:50:22.480 --> 00:50:22.679 Or no? 947 00:50:23.519 --> 00:50:25.639 It can lead to that if they're consistent whether it. 948 00:50:25.599 --> 00:50:28.280 Yes, no, no? Is it is it or not? 949 00:50:29.559 --> 00:50:32.440 Well, it's a false either or because not everybody who's 950 00:50:32.440 --> 00:50:35.320 wrong is necessarily a heretic. They're not necessarily formal heretics. 951 00:50:35.599 --> 00:50:36.840 You can have a material heresy. 952 00:50:37.760 --> 00:50:41.079 So the Catholic position, now, is it a Harris You're not. 953 00:50:41.880 --> 00:50:44.519 It depends on the person whether they're hardened in that heresy. 954 00:50:44.679 --> 00:50:46.199 No, No, it doesn't depend on a person. 955 00:50:46.199 --> 00:50:49.119 There's I mean, you're asking you're asking me my Yeah, 956 00:50:50.239 --> 00:50:53.199 I'm telling you my position. Tell you what my position is. 957 00:50:53.559 --> 00:50:55.599 Let me help you the Catholic is we don't let 958 00:50:55.639 --> 00:50:57.559 him full of buster because he wants the time. Now, 959 00:50:57.599 --> 00:50:59.679 let me ask you the question, because I know that's 960 00:50:59.679 --> 00:51:00.239 what you're to do. 961 00:51:00.400 --> 00:51:02.639 What do you think about that Jay just called your church. 962 00:51:03.239 --> 00:51:05.719 I'm a heretic, I deserve help. Jay pray for me 963 00:51:05.760 --> 00:51:07.559 and asked the decission of the saints. Now let's come 964 00:51:07.559 --> 00:51:08.119 back to the Koran. 965 00:51:08.519 --> 00:51:11.760 That's ironic that you're trying to pit me ask the question. 966 00:51:12.000 --> 00:51:15.800 Jazz scared when you went him believed the same thing. 967 00:51:15.920 --> 00:51:18.360 You don't believe in the same god. You and Jay 968 00:51:18.360 --> 00:51:20.280 don't believe in the same god. That's what the point 969 00:51:20.320 --> 00:51:21.760 that we're trying to make me moderator. 970 00:51:21.760 --> 00:51:25.559 You're gonna have to do a better job, and I'm 971 00:51:25.559 --> 00:51:28.079 trying to have it. You know how about this? Can you? 972 00:51:28.159 --> 00:51:29.199 Lets say im asked this question? 973 00:51:29.360 --> 00:51:30.880 Dan, please go ahead. 974 00:51:30.639 --> 00:51:33.000 And are you scared? Daniel? Ticket easy? All right? Now 975 00:51:33.039 --> 00:51:36.360 here's your Can you let me make my comment? 976 00:51:36.440 --> 00:51:36.679 Dude? 977 00:51:36.800 --> 00:51:42.960 Well your Koran you'll never get here we go, all right, 978 00:51:43.000 --> 00:51:47.920 I'm going to have created right Daniel? Yes, okay, So 979 00:51:48.079 --> 00:51:52.159 the headis that I cited when it says will appear 980 00:51:52.440 --> 00:51:57.320 as flocks of birds interceeding for those that recited them. 981 00:51:57.400 --> 00:51:59.840 Do you take that metaphorically or do you take it actually. 982 00:52:00.440 --> 00:52:03.920 This is a personification of the Quran, just like the 983 00:52:03.920 --> 00:52:07.400 Bible versus that I mentioned about rivers flopping their hands 984 00:52:07.719 --> 00:52:11.199 their stones speaking in the psalms. I'll read them again. 985 00:52:11.280 --> 00:52:15.760 And yeah, So you're making the claim that if the 986 00:52:15.840 --> 00:52:18.840 Qoran is personified, that means it has a separate mind. 987 00:52:18.920 --> 00:52:21.559 And I find the point to And see now you're interrupting. 988 00:52:22.440 --> 00:52:23.920 Can I answer? Can I answer the question? 989 00:52:24.119 --> 00:52:24.320 Good? 990 00:52:25.599 --> 00:52:29.239 So I pointed out that just because there's personification, that 991 00:52:29.280 --> 00:52:31.719 doesn't imply that there is a separate mind, and I 992 00:52:31.960 --> 00:52:36.119 cited versus the Bible. Your response, Your response was that no, 993 00:52:36.280 --> 00:52:39.360 this is just personification in the Bible. So personification is 994 00:52:39.400 --> 00:52:42.039 okay in the Bible. That doesn't imply that the Bible 995 00:52:42.440 --> 00:52:46.800 stones have mines and that rivers have mines. That's fine. 996 00:52:46.840 --> 00:52:49.599 But if the Quran does it, or if I do it. 997 00:52:51.360 --> 00:52:52.880 Your position is that question? 998 00:52:53.480 --> 00:52:56.000 You ask your position? Are you going to rant and 999 00:52:56.079 --> 00:52:58.760 rate because you want to eat up time when I'm 1000 00:52:58.760 --> 00:52:59.719 answering you. 1001 00:52:59.719 --> 00:53:02.400 You want to ask the question shouldn't we be able 1002 00:53:02.440 --> 00:53:05.840 to ask? No, you just asked a question we should 1003 00:53:05.840 --> 00:53:10.440 be able to answer you. So no, no ask the question. 1004 00:53:10.519 --> 00:53:11.480 I ask you a question. 1005 00:53:11.559 --> 00:53:16.400 I'm asking you a question. Some answer the question. 1006 00:53:17.360 --> 00:53:21.679 Never get to get We're going to keep running moderations. 1007 00:53:21.880 --> 00:53:26.559 I'll be able to ask questions. 1008 00:53:26.800 --> 00:53:30.199 Okay, at thirty seconds of o'clock, we're gonna let say 1009 00:53:30.199 --> 00:53:32.039 I finished this point, and then we'll go ahead and 1010 00:53:32.079 --> 00:53:33.199 let you ask your question. 1011 00:53:33.039 --> 00:53:34.440 Making points, asking questions. 1012 00:53:34.440 --> 00:53:37.639 So no, Daniel, Daniel, let him make his stop attacking 1013 00:53:37.840 --> 00:53:41.719 straw man. Because the Psalm you will not find where 1014 00:53:41.719 --> 00:53:45.000 it says, and the moon will come and intercede for 1015 00:53:45.119 --> 00:53:49.320 those that look to it and venerated it. The head 1016 00:53:49.360 --> 00:53:52.119 dates I cited is about the day of resurrection. It's 1017 00:53:52.159 --> 00:53:55.400 about intercession. So I want to know what do you 1018 00:53:55.440 --> 00:53:58.400 mean by personification when in those head dates it's talking 1019 00:53:58.480 --> 00:54:03.159 about the Surrahs interceding with a law. Will there be intercession? 1020 00:54:03.239 --> 00:54:07.000 Is that true? Will people need intercession before a law? 1021 00:54:07.119 --> 00:54:07.719 Is that true? 1022 00:54:08.039 --> 00:54:08.159 So? 1023 00:54:08.360 --> 00:54:11.960 What exactly do you mean by personification? Because your appeal 1024 00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:14.760 to the psalms shows that you don't understand what a 1025 00:54:14.800 --> 00:54:15.760 personification is. 1026 00:54:17.719 --> 00:54:22.280 Answer without interruption. Answer, We'll see without interruption. Great answer. 1027 00:54:22.960 --> 00:54:24.719 Yeah, and I'll give you j just some time as well, 1028 00:54:24.760 --> 00:54:26.559 because he didn't get a chance. So go ahead. 1029 00:54:26.679 --> 00:54:27.840 Yeah, sound didn't come to me here. 1030 00:54:28.480 --> 00:54:32.239 Yeah, they're just dictating the question. So I cited verse 1031 00:54:32.320 --> 00:54:36.400 of the Quran in chapter thirty six that even your hands, 1032 00:54:36.559 --> 00:54:40.480 even your feet will intercede. There are many things that 1033 00:54:40.559 --> 00:54:43.960 will intercede on the day of judgment. That doesn't mean 1034 00:54:44.000 --> 00:54:47.159 that those things have minds. Those things don't. Those things 1035 00:54:47.159 --> 00:54:50.119 don't imply that those things are God, that those are 1036 00:54:50.159 --> 00:54:53.360 God's minds. That's the thing. The point that we made 1037 00:54:53.400 --> 00:54:56.360 against the Trinity is that Jesus has a separate mind, 1038 00:54:56.719 --> 00:54:59.639 a human mind, and the Father has a separate mind. Now, 1039 00:54:59.719 --> 00:55:03.320 Jason says that the mind of Jesus is a fully 1040 00:55:03.400 --> 00:55:06.039 human mind, But does that mean the Father has a 1041 00:55:06.079 --> 00:55:09.079 fully human mind as well? If not, those are two 1042 00:55:09.079 --> 00:55:13.039 separate minds of God. So those are two separate minds, 1043 00:55:13.039 --> 00:55:16.320 two separate entities, to two separate beings. That's not analogous 1044 00:55:16.360 --> 00:55:20.079 to your hands interceding on your behalf on the day 1045 00:55:20.119 --> 00:55:23.920 of judgment, or the or on or your feet or 1046 00:55:23.960 --> 00:55:27.239 anything else that will intercede on your behalf on the 1047 00:55:27.320 --> 00:55:31.159 day of judgment. Explain how Jesus can have a separate 1048 00:55:31.199 --> 00:55:34.400 mind from the Father and they be the same mind. 1049 00:55:37.000 --> 00:55:38.840 So I did interrupt, So you want to answer Jay 1050 00:55:39.239 --> 00:55:40.599 because he just wants to ask questions. 1051 00:55:40.639 --> 00:55:43.039 So the separation comes in the fact that he has 1052 00:55:43.079 --> 00:55:46.039 a human mind that he assumed, but he retains the 1053 00:55:46.079 --> 00:55:48.480 divine mind that he shares with the Father because he's 1054 00:55:48.519 --> 00:55:51.239 a divine person. He's not a human person. This is 1055 00:55:51.280 --> 00:55:54.199 an important distinction in Christian theology that we don't accept 1056 00:55:54.199 --> 00:55:58.119 the Nestorian teaching that Jesus is a human person. He's 1057 00:55:58.159 --> 00:56:01.119 a divine subject. That is, assume the human mind, a 1058 00:56:01.199 --> 00:56:04.400 human nature, human will, human energy. So he shared It's 1059 00:56:04.400 --> 00:56:06.199 a both and and on either or. So your whole 1060 00:56:06.280 --> 00:56:08.719 question is predicated on false either or. 1061 00:56:09.280 --> 00:56:11.960 All right, so that the Father has a human mind. 1062 00:56:12.079 --> 00:56:13.679 So so real quick, this has a time that the 1063 00:56:13.679 --> 00:56:14.280 Father doesn't have. 1064 00:56:14.639 --> 00:56:16.639 That is time. But did you guys want to ask 1065 00:56:16.639 --> 00:56:18.280 you Jazz a question or did you guys have a 1066 00:56:18.360 --> 00:56:18.960 question for you guys? 1067 00:56:19.079 --> 00:56:20.920 There was I want. 1068 00:56:20.760 --> 00:56:22.280 To answer that, go ahead of Jess. What's your question? 1069 00:56:22.559 --> 00:56:26.199 Simple question? Why did those scribes omits uh for the 1070 00:56:26.320 --> 00:56:28.519 in the Vulgate that Jesus is more today or the 1071 00:56:28.760 --> 00:56:31.079 well when it addresses him as the son speaking of 1072 00:56:31.159 --> 00:56:32.960 the person, not speaking of natures. 1073 00:56:33.320 --> 00:56:36.119 Yeah, ask me that in the scriptural debates, because I 1074 00:56:36.199 --> 00:56:36.400 want to. 1075 00:56:36.440 --> 00:56:42.199 Use this is theological? Is theological? I'm asking you theologically? 1076 00:56:42.639 --> 00:56:46.159 Is this son the person? They want to son? 1077 00:56:47.400 --> 00:56:47.840 Excuse me? 1078 00:56:48.079 --> 00:56:50.519 Can you answer the question? Okay, answer it? 1079 00:56:51.800 --> 00:56:53.280 Talk over again one more time. 1080 00:56:53.760 --> 00:56:58.239 I asked the question. Quite simple, you know one it 1081 00:56:58.280 --> 00:57:00.320 says this son. Listen to my question. 1082 00:57:00.480 --> 00:57:03.800 Jest. 1083 00:57:04.199 --> 00:57:06.159 You don't have to change my question for me. 1084 00:57:06.559 --> 00:57:09.239 You just my question about changing. 1085 00:57:09.360 --> 00:57:11.800 Listen to what I said, matter asked. 1086 00:57:13.239 --> 00:57:13.440 Question. 1087 00:57:13.840 --> 00:57:16.159 He heard your question, Just let him answer. He heard 1088 00:57:16.199 --> 00:57:16.599 your question. 1089 00:57:17.480 --> 00:57:21.199 You said about scribes changing the text, so that is 1090 00:57:21.639 --> 00:57:24.559 referring to the veracity of the scriptures. But even if 1091 00:57:24.599 --> 00:57:29.280 we go with your very imbalanced approach to textual criticism, 1092 00:57:29.920 --> 00:57:32.880 they must have done a very poor job because they 1093 00:57:33.039 --> 00:57:36.599 left intact the father loan. So even your argument buries 1094 00:57:36.679 --> 00:57:38.840 you because whatever the scribes did, if they inserted the 1095 00:57:38.880 --> 00:57:41.639 word son or omitted it, because there's a debate among 1096 00:57:41.719 --> 00:57:45.559 textual critics, that passage still has the father loan, So 1097 00:57:45.679 --> 00:57:47.559 they must have done a very poor job because they 1098 00:57:47.599 --> 00:57:49.960 didn't remove the word alone, and they left Mark thirteen 1099 00:57:50.039 --> 00:57:51.880 thirty two intact. Because I know what you're referring to 1100 00:57:52.280 --> 00:57:53.760 Matthew twenty four to thirty six. 1101 00:57:54.280 --> 00:57:55.199 So I wasn't my question? 1102 00:57:56.079 --> 00:57:59.000 Okay, can you ask me about textual criticism? 1103 00:57:59.280 --> 00:58:04.400 Doug used was not about textual criticism as you's this son. 1104 00:58:04.719 --> 00:58:08.039 Listen one more time, listen one more time. I'm asking 1105 00:58:08.159 --> 00:58:11.760 you describes me to change to omit all this son, 1106 00:58:12.360 --> 00:58:14.519 and I'm asking you why is it specific for the 1107 00:58:14.599 --> 00:58:16.840 son to be omitted? If the son is the same 1108 00:58:16.920 --> 00:58:19.360 person you have the same knowledge as the father. Just 1109 00:58:19.440 --> 00:58:23.719 a simple question, as the same knowledge as the father, 1110 00:58:24.039 --> 00:58:26.239 why does it ignorant. 1111 00:58:25.880 --> 00:58:27.480 Of it take? 1112 00:58:27.559 --> 00:58:29.519 You can't answer the question? They can't answer it. 1113 00:58:29.639 --> 00:58:30.480 Actually, I move on. 1114 00:58:31.119 --> 00:58:33.599 Okay, you didn't understand understand. 1115 00:58:35.199 --> 00:58:39.400 Question? Chance, give me chance to answer this that we're 1116 00:58:39.400 --> 00:58:40.719 going to move on to the scripture because we have 1117 00:58:40.840 --> 00:58:41.920 went on a little bit longer here. 1118 00:58:42.000 --> 00:58:44.079 Could I make a final point to Daniel one final point? 1119 00:58:44.159 --> 00:58:46.119 Yeah, go ahead, if you can answer their question as well. 1120 00:58:46.159 --> 00:58:47.920 Please all brought this debate. He shows that he's a 1121 00:58:48.000 --> 00:58:50.880 very poor debater because he's attacking straw man. Unlike the 1122 00:58:50.960 --> 00:58:53.679 examples of your hands and feet, the serves are supposed 1123 00:58:53.719 --> 00:58:56.519 to be uncreated and eternal. So you still live with 1124 00:58:56.559 --> 00:58:59.880 the dilemma that the chapters of the Crown uncreated a 1125 00:59:00.000 --> 00:59:03.280 eternal we'll be speaking with God, So you have uncreated 1126 00:59:03.400 --> 00:59:05.480 entities unlike your hands and feet. So I'm gonna now 1127 00:59:05.639 --> 00:59:09.840 agree with you. Your Kuran is a mindless entity who 1128 00:59:09.840 --> 00:59:11.880 will appear to a law with out of mind argue 1129 00:59:11.920 --> 00:59:14.119 with the law. So you're left with a mindless entity 1130 00:59:14.159 --> 00:59:17.320 interacting with your God. So either that means your God 1131 00:59:17.400 --> 00:59:20.239 is speaking through different modes, or you have a set 1132 00:59:20.280 --> 00:59:23.679 of one hundred and fourteen uncreated eternal divine objects who 1133 00:59:23.679 --> 00:59:27.000 are mindless and you have the audacity attack to Trinity. 1134 00:59:27.400 --> 00:59:28.039 So this is. 1135 00:59:29.880 --> 00:59:31.079 Answer is okay. 1136 00:59:32.000 --> 00:59:34.159 What we'll do guys next time is I'm going to 1137 00:59:34.199 --> 00:59:35.960 have a question answer for each person and when we 1138 00:59:36.039 --> 00:59:37.760 do this open dialoguecause I can see that this can 1139 00:59:37.840 --> 00:59:40.039 easily spiral, and we'll fix that on the next one. 1140 00:59:41.280 --> 00:59:43.599 Let's just move to scripture because we're getting there anyway, 1141 00:59:44.000 --> 00:59:47.239 so we'll move on to the scripture apart. So team 1142 00:59:47.360 --> 00:59:48.719 isam you guys are going to take kick it off 1143 00:59:48.880 --> 00:59:51.920 again unless you walk Team Christianity kick it off on 1144 00:59:52.000 --> 00:59:52.280 this one. 1145 00:59:53.559 --> 00:59:56.519 I let them go first. Sorry, Now do you want 1146 00:59:56.559 --> 00:59:56.880 to go first? 1147 00:59:57.800 --> 00:59:59.599 I would like I would like some to hung himself 1148 00:59:59.639 --> 01:00:00.360 so he can go for this. 1149 01:00:01.119 --> 01:00:03.440 Yeah, we're going first. 1150 01:00:04.679 --> 01:00:06.159 I'll use that or hang your religion, by the grace 1151 01:00:06.199 --> 01:00:09.199 of Jesus Christ and barrier. But now let's start time. 1152 01:00:09.280 --> 01:00:11.039 By the way, Jay, you want me to take the entirefinment. 1153 01:00:11.159 --> 01:00:13.599 So so just for the audience knows, this is going 1154 01:00:13.639 --> 01:00:17.079 to be round two. Now same thing, guys, three rounds, 1155 01:00:17.920 --> 01:00:20.679 four minutes each. Now we're going to talk about scripture 1156 01:00:20.679 --> 01:00:25.599 authenticity between the Quran and the and the Bible. So 1157 01:00:26.119 --> 01:00:28.400 I'll turn over to you, say im go ahead, all right. 1158 01:00:28.480 --> 01:00:30.480 Yeah, by the grace of Lord Jesus Christ, Muhammed's God 1159 01:00:30.519 --> 01:00:33.639 in judge. I'm now going to show the Muslims the 1160 01:00:33.719 --> 01:00:36.599 dilimma they're in because I'm not debating a bark Erman 1161 01:00:36.960 --> 01:00:40.119 who doesn't care about Mohammad. I'm debating Muslims or supposedly 1162 01:00:40.159 --> 01:00:42.960 take the position of Muhammad. So i'mppeeling to Muhammad because 1163 01:00:42.960 --> 01:00:44.920 they believe in them. I pray they repent and turn 1164 01:00:44.960 --> 01:00:47.440 away from him because he's under the feet of Jesus Christ. 1165 01:00:47.519 --> 01:00:50.800 But coming to that point, any time a Jazz attacks 1166 01:00:51.079 --> 01:00:54.320 the Bible, he shows that he's smarter than Mohammad better 1167 01:00:54.360 --> 01:00:57.280 than Muhammad, knows more than Mohammad. Why because the consistent 1168 01:00:57.360 --> 01:00:59.440 teaching of the Qoran and the sound narration. So we're 1169 01:00:59.440 --> 01:01:02.119 going to get into is that Muhammad confirmed the very 1170 01:01:02.239 --> 01:01:04.880 scriptures that the Jews and Christians had in their possession 1171 01:01:05.360 --> 01:01:07.960 at his time. And the Koran says that Jesus confirmed 1172 01:01:07.960 --> 01:01:11.000 the very scriptures between his hands at his time. Unless 1173 01:01:11.079 --> 01:01:13.159 now he just wants to come up with some new 1174 01:01:13.239 --> 01:01:16.679 set of scriptures, the only scriptures that would have been 1175 01:01:16.679 --> 01:01:18.840 in existence time of Jesus up to Muhammad are the 1176 01:01:18.960 --> 01:01:21.840 very scriptures that have variations, just like the Koran does. 1177 01:01:22.280 --> 01:01:24.239 Let me just go through a slew of versus for 1178 01:01:24.320 --> 01:01:27.079 the sake of time. Chapter two, Verses forty to forty four, 1179 01:01:27.760 --> 01:01:30.880 Chapter two, verse eighty nine, Chapter two vers ninety one, 1180 01:01:31.480 --> 01:01:34.679 Chapter two verses one oh one, Chapter two, verse one thirteen, 1181 01:01:34.920 --> 01:01:37.559 Chapter two verse one twenty one, Chapter two verse one 1182 01:01:37.639 --> 01:01:41.079 thirty six, Chapter three, verses three to four, Chapter three, 1183 01:01:41.360 --> 01:01:45.639 verse fifty, Chapter three vers sorry not Chapter three, Chapter four, 1184 01:01:45.719 --> 01:01:48.000 verse forty seven. And then we go to chapter five 1185 01:01:48.320 --> 01:01:51.199 and we read verses forty three to forty eight, sixty six, six, 1186 01:01:51.239 --> 01:01:53.760 sixty eight, and on and on. It goes and then 1187 01:01:54.000 --> 01:01:56.920 the sound narrations. So hey, jas, make my day, help 1188 01:01:57.000 --> 01:02:00.400 me to hang. You attack the Bible for variations because 1189 01:02:00.440 --> 01:02:02.559 you show that you know more than Muhammad. That means 1190 01:02:02.599 --> 01:02:04.360 you expose him as a false prophet. But if you 1191 01:02:04.440 --> 01:02:06.719 believe in Muhammad, you have to accept the Bible. And 1192 01:02:06.760 --> 01:02:09.039 he's still a false prophet because Muhammad was an Umi. 1193 01:02:09.320 --> 01:02:12.320 He did not know that his kron contradicts the Bible. Now, 1194 01:02:13.039 --> 01:02:15.519 the same arguments that they're gonna level against Scripture, I 1195 01:02:15.559 --> 01:02:18.519 will use to bury their belief in scripture because Hejazz 1196 01:02:18.599 --> 01:02:21.599 is going to have to complete and talk about the aharuf? 1197 01:02:22.199 --> 01:02:25.480 What are they exactly? What are the seven aharruf? Over 1198 01:02:25.639 --> 01:02:28.280 thirty five opinions given by scholars? And we know it 1199 01:02:28.320 --> 01:02:30.920 cannot be dialectal because I'm going to show from a 1200 01:02:31.000 --> 01:02:35.400 hadith in Bukhati that Olmar heard Hasham recite chapter twenty 1201 01:02:35.480 --> 01:02:38.519 five of the Koran so differently. He dragged him to 1202 01:02:38.679 --> 01:02:41.400 Muhammad and Mahmad said, yes, I taught it to him 1203 01:02:41.440 --> 01:02:45.239 this way, and Olmar recited, I taught the chapter two 1204 01:02:45.360 --> 01:02:48.679 this way. But they were both Croatians, spoke the same dialects, 1205 01:02:48.719 --> 01:02:51.519 So it cannot be dialectal differences. And then we're going 1206 01:02:51.599 --> 01:02:54.920 to add to the problem the missing versus and surahs 1207 01:02:55.079 --> 01:02:57.960 found in the codeses of Abullah ibn Masud uh By 1208 01:02:58.000 --> 01:03:00.000 bin Kab, two of the four men that Muhammed said 1209 01:03:00.159 --> 01:03:02.800 learned the Koran from, He didn't say, say it mun Tabit. 1210 01:03:03.360 --> 01:03:06.639 He said, learn the Korn from Abbit Massoud, who vibin 1211 01:03:06.719 --> 01:03:09.400 cop And yet they contradicted each other and your othmonic 1212 01:03:09.599 --> 01:03:13.280 codex Mosaf because they are missing versus and missing service. 1213 01:03:13.519 --> 01:03:16.199 So much for the perfectly preserved chron. But then add 1214 01:03:16.280 --> 01:03:20.480 to insult injury, your oathman decided to burn copies of 1215 01:03:20.559 --> 01:03:22.920 the Koran that were in conflict to the point that 1216 01:03:23.079 --> 01:03:25.880 Muslims are about to come to blows. You don't come 1217 01:03:25.960 --> 01:03:30.119 to blows over minor differences. And he had the korans burn, 1218 01:03:30.519 --> 01:03:33.559 and yet Abdilivan Masoud refused, to the point that your 1219 01:03:33.639 --> 01:03:39.719 sources say that Othman instigated a mob reaction against Abdolivered Masud, 1220 01:03:40.159 --> 01:03:43.199 who got beat and his bones broken because he thought 1221 01:03:43.360 --> 01:03:45.400 his knowledge of the chron was superior to your Saiah 1222 01:03:45.480 --> 01:03:51.000 ibn Tabit, who was an Ansadi. Then we add insult 1223 01:03:51.079 --> 01:03:53.400 and injury. What do you do with the different pairod. 1224 01:03:53.719 --> 01:03:57.440 According to your Muslim sources, there were twenty five paiad 1225 01:03:57.920 --> 01:04:01.760 by the time. Ifn Rijah had came centuries later, three 1226 01:04:01.800 --> 01:04:04.639 hundred years later after the death of your prophet, he's 1227 01:04:04.679 --> 01:04:07.920 the one who standardized seven. By who's the forty? So 1228 01:04:08.079 --> 01:04:10.639 my challenge you is show me anywhere in your Quran 1229 01:04:11.199 --> 01:04:15.159 or your authentic tradition where your God sanctioned all these 1230 01:04:15.239 --> 01:04:20.519 paidot and authorized ib Mujahit to standardize seventh pia and 1231 01:04:20.639 --> 01:04:23.360 these paidot are not identical. And then I want you 1232 01:04:23.440 --> 01:04:25.800 to explain to me what the ahuf are. And then 1233 01:04:25.840 --> 01:04:27.840 we're gonna go into the missing verses and we're gonna 1234 01:04:27.880 --> 01:04:31.440 go into the missing time. Okay, so let's have a 1235 01:04:31.480 --> 01:04:32.079 found all right. 1236 01:04:32.679 --> 01:04:35.719 Okay, we will turn it over to team Azad for 1237 01:04:35.880 --> 01:04:39.599 round one. And this is authenticity of scripture one sect. 1238 01:04:39.639 --> 01:04:43.159 Let me just reset my time there, we go. 1239 01:04:43.400 --> 01:04:47.199 Stop, We'll start on our side once you start speaking. 1240 01:04:48.039 --> 01:04:53.360 Okay, sounds good, Yeah, you can stop. So here's the thing. 1241 01:04:53.599 --> 01:04:57.880 Revelation comes with the expectation of validation. Scriptural texts and 1242 01:04:58.000 --> 01:05:01.639 doctrines are authentic. We traced back to the figures to 1243 01:05:01.800 --> 01:05:04.639 whom they were revealed in the way that they were revealed, 1244 01:05:05.079 --> 01:05:09.079 otherwise they are inauthentic. Christians believe that the Testament can 1245 01:05:09.159 --> 01:05:12.159 go back to Jesus Christ and his apostles. However, some 1246 01:05:12.400 --> 01:05:16.519 disagrees because Sam said in his live stream with Crisco 1247 01:05:16.920 --> 01:05:20.159 that the disasterment comes after the time of Christ, probably 1248 01:05:20.280 --> 01:05:22.800 the second century. So I guess it's not really that 1249 01:05:22.960 --> 01:05:25.559 early good that he omitted the first century. Well done, 1250 01:05:25.639 --> 01:05:28.400 some to continue with this. The books of the Bible 1251 01:05:28.440 --> 01:05:32.599 as we have them today, we can't authenticate them. We 1252 01:05:32.679 --> 01:05:36.760 can't trace their lineage back. We call the stematics or genealogy. 1253 01:05:37.119 --> 01:05:40.119 You have different manuscripts at different times. Are we're trying 1254 01:05:40.159 --> 01:05:43.320 to understand are they written, why they're known with whom. 1255 01:05:44.159 --> 01:05:45.559 The thing that we have to keep in mind is 1256 01:05:45.639 --> 01:05:49.199 that describes who've written these things, and the authors do 1257 01:05:49.320 --> 01:05:53.800 not identify themselves as having been inspired whatsoever. And we're 1258 01:05:53.960 --> 01:05:56.199 very little knowledge as to where and when these things 1259 01:05:56.239 --> 01:05:59.039 were written. For example, if I were to give the 1260 01:05:59.119 --> 01:06:03.320 most famous risks the Bible, John three sixteen, academic scholars 1261 01:06:03.400 --> 01:06:07.039 don't know if Jesus actually said those words. We think 1262 01:06:07.199 --> 01:06:10.440 it could be the author or a later scribe. In fact, 1263 01:06:10.679 --> 01:06:13.440 even the words of that very verse the most famous, 1264 01:06:13.440 --> 01:06:16.599 the most popular, has a difference in it. They've changed 1265 01:06:16.639 --> 01:06:19.480 it to say that Jesus is no longer begotten. The 1266 01:06:19.599 --> 01:06:22.320 thing is, if they can't get their most famous verse right, 1267 01:06:22.599 --> 01:06:25.679 what else can they get wrong? What about the shamai Israel? 1268 01:06:26.000 --> 01:06:30.519 When Moses in the Book of Deuteronomy has to explain 1269 01:06:30.639 --> 01:06:33.960 who God is? That differs to the Greeks of triagents 1270 01:06:34.119 --> 01:06:36.440 and a difference with what Jesus says in the in 1271 01:06:36.559 --> 01:06:39.559 the Testament, in each gostel. So if Jesus can't get 1272 01:06:39.559 --> 01:06:43.400 his basic beliefs rights in the Testaments, Moses makes mistakes 1273 01:06:43.440 --> 01:06:46.000 in the Old Testament, then these are scriptures I can't 1274 01:06:46.039 --> 01:06:48.360 believe in. And these prophets seem to have done a 1275 01:06:48.519 --> 01:06:50.840 very bad job, especially if one of them were meant 1276 01:06:50.840 --> 01:06:54.320 to be Psalm's God. Let's continue here we have that. 1277 01:06:56.239 --> 01:06:59.159 Let's consider Isaiah chapter forty, verse eight. It says that 1278 01:06:59.280 --> 01:07:02.400 the word of God will stand forever. Jesus says something 1279 01:07:02.480 --> 01:07:05.760 similar in Matthew five eighteen, that not the smallest letter, 1280 01:07:06.239 --> 01:07:11.039 not the least stroke of a pen, will disappear from scripture. Unfortunately, 1281 01:07:11.360 --> 01:07:14.760 this prophecy is false. How do we know this? They 1282 01:07:14.840 --> 01:07:18.079 admit that don't know too. Manuscripts are the same, down 1283 01:07:18.159 --> 01:07:20.559 to the letters and the strokes. And I want you 1284 01:07:20.639 --> 01:07:24.079 to notice here, Jay cannot identify for me which biblical 1285 01:07:24.159 --> 01:07:27.679 tradition you holds to textually, and neither can Sam. Sam says, 1286 01:07:27.719 --> 01:07:30.159 the only textual tradition you would accept if it's from 1287 01:07:30.199 --> 01:07:33.239 a Trinitarian. You don't know what the early Christians believed 1288 01:07:33.400 --> 01:07:35.480 in the first century, so how can you make that 1289 01:07:35.559 --> 01:07:38.679 distinction and determination. I would add one more thing here 1290 01:07:39.440 --> 01:07:43.119 that it's actually a list kept by the Jews, but 1291 01:07:43.320 --> 01:07:46.519 the changes that they made the scripture. This isn't a 1292 01:07:46.599 --> 01:07:51.360 Muslim invention. Historically there's a list called the changes by 1293 01:07:51.440 --> 01:07:56.880 the scribes tikun sofam describes changed words in the toler 1294 01:07:57.400 --> 01:08:00.639 We find that in the Christian version of the of 1295 01:08:00.719 --> 01:08:04.000 the Old Testament that those changers are also present there. 1296 01:08:04.280 --> 01:08:07.559 So we ask ruling over the fact that changes when 1297 01:08:07.599 --> 01:08:09.960 we ad vice scribes, did Jews say yes? And the 1298 01:08:10.039 --> 01:08:12.480 Christians have it in their Bible? And these are not 1299 01:08:12.760 --> 01:08:17.000 menial changes? We continue here. Christian scholars believe that the 1300 01:08:17.079 --> 01:08:20.560 Bible could be reliable for two reasons. One that it's 1301 01:08:20.720 --> 01:08:23.560 early enough in time to the time of Jesus and 1302 01:08:23.720 --> 01:08:26.600 two the vast amount of manuscripts that they have. The 1303 01:08:26.720 --> 01:08:30.560 problem here, however, is if some appeals to those scholars 1304 01:08:30.600 --> 01:08:33.319 and their reason, and then the same metrics when used 1305 01:08:33.359 --> 01:08:37.000 for the Koran completely authenticated. We know exactly what the 1306 01:08:37.079 --> 01:08:40.159 Koran is. We can recreate its prototype text, we have 1307 01:08:40.239 --> 01:08:42.279 a stammard that we can develop for it, and we 1308 01:08:42.319 --> 01:08:44.279 have the manuscripts from the lifetime of the profits of 1309 01:08:44.359 --> 01:08:46.000 one novel. All he was solid. 1310 01:08:46.199 --> 01:08:49.760 Sorry we will no no, no, I just say I 1311 01:08:49.840 --> 01:08:52.319 was giving you the last ten seconds A sorry, that's 1312 01:08:52.399 --> 01:08:58.039 time right there. No, it's fine. Okay, So that completes 1313 01:08:58.600 --> 01:09:01.880 round one of topic two, which is authenticity of scripture. 1314 01:09:03.159 --> 01:09:05.319 We're gonna do. Go ahead, mo, we're gonna turn it 1315 01:09:05.319 --> 01:09:07.600 real quick, quick work from our sponsor, guys that we're 1316 01:09:07.600 --> 01:09:13.800 gonna get right back into it. Go mo, this batters. 1317 01:09:13.800 --> 01:09:15.159 If you guys gotta use the bathroom or whatever, go 1318 01:09:15.199 --> 01:09:16.800 ahead and go real quick this episode. 1319 01:09:16.920 --> 01:09:18.439 You want me to take this for if you want 1320 01:09:18.479 --> 01:09:19.000 what do you want to do? 1321 01:09:19.880 --> 01:09:22.359 Yeah you can. I'll have maybe one or two points 1322 01:09:22.560 --> 01:09:23.640 I can do briefly on that. 1323 01:09:23.920 --> 01:09:26.079 Okay, go ahead, more read through it and then yeah, guys, 1324 01:09:26.079 --> 01:09:28.600 and we'll get right back into it after this episode 1325 01:09:28.760 --> 01:09:31.079 is sponsored by The Kid's Guide. 1326 01:09:31.720 --> 01:09:35.479 I have an important message about President Trump for all 1327 01:09:35.520 --> 01:09:38.880 the parents out there, so please listen up. President Trump 1328 01:09:38.960 --> 01:09:42.720 said he wants to take back America and teach our 1329 01:09:42.840 --> 01:09:46.840 kids to love our country. That's why it's so important 1330 01:09:47.119 --> 01:09:49.840 to make sure that our kids are learning the truth 1331 01:09:50.600 --> 01:09:54.840 about President Trump, not the distorted lies that they're hearing 1332 01:09:55.159 --> 01:10:00.239 in the mainstream media. 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That is kids Trumpguide 1343 01:10:44.560 --> 01:10:47.720 dot com. And thank you Mike Hugabye and The Kid's 1344 01:10:47.800 --> 01:10:50.000 Guide for sponsoring this episode. 1345 01:10:50.319 --> 01:10:53.359 Thank you so much more appreciate that the show bringing 1346 01:10:53.399 --> 01:10:57.319 on a round two guys of authenticity of the scripture 1347 01:10:57.680 --> 01:11:00.640 is going to be on team Christianity. I believe you wanted. 1348 01:11:00.680 --> 01:11:01.680 We're going to take this one right. 1349 01:11:02.680 --> 01:11:04.439 Yeah, I just have one brief point, then I'll hand 1350 01:11:04.479 --> 01:11:07.079 it back over to Sam. Yeah. I think that he 1351 01:11:07.199 --> 01:11:09.880 jaws unknowingly sort of shot himself on the foot there, 1352 01:11:09.960 --> 01:11:17.640 because the text that Sam listed presupposed that you could 1353 01:11:17.680 --> 01:11:21.199 go and confirm the new revelation with the old. So 1354 01:11:21.319 --> 01:11:23.560 if I were to set up a hypothetical scenario of 1355 01:11:23.640 --> 01:11:27.600 a sixth seventh century Jew are Christian hearing this message, 1356 01:11:28.039 --> 01:11:30.520 hearing it for the first time, it's being revealed seventh century, 1357 01:11:30.520 --> 01:11:33.319 I should say, and we're told that we can go 1358 01:11:33.439 --> 01:11:36.239 to check it against the prior revelation. If the prior 1359 01:11:36.319 --> 01:11:39.199 revelation is corrupt, how foolish then that we're checking it 1360 01:11:39.239 --> 01:11:42.279 against something corrupted. And in fact, the texts actually don't 1361 01:11:42.279 --> 01:11:44.840 say that the prior revelation is corrupted. That's a made 1362 01:11:44.920 --> 01:11:49.359 up thing that he's attacking on. Later on, go ahead, Sam, Yeah, Now, 1363 01:11:49.640 --> 01:11:50.239 I want. 1364 01:11:50.079 --> 01:11:53.279 To congratulate a jazz for now doing what I said, 1365 01:11:53.720 --> 01:11:55.960 and he pretty much destroyed his religion because I appeal 1366 01:11:56.000 --> 01:11:58.319 to mom. But he'll be able to biblical scholars. Isn't 1367 01:11:58.359 --> 01:12:01.279 an ironic a Christians? Mamma is a false prophet? An 1368 01:12:01.279 --> 01:12:07.520 antichrist is appealing to Muhammad. He's appealing to uninspired textual critics, 1369 01:12:07.560 --> 01:12:11.000 which means he just proved these scholars know better than 1370 01:12:11.039 --> 01:12:13.399 his prophet. Good job he does. Why are you still 1371 01:12:13.439 --> 01:12:16.399 a Muslim? You need to repent. So if these textual 1372 01:12:16.439 --> 01:12:19.960 critics that you are selectively slighting and misquoting because you 1373 01:12:20.000 --> 01:12:23.640 don't quote in context, all right, Muhammad is wrong. Allah 1374 01:12:23.760 --> 01:12:27.520 is wrong because Mohammad had no problem with the variations 1375 01:12:27.560 --> 01:12:29.880 and the manuscripts that existed amongst the Jews and Christians, 1376 01:12:29.960 --> 01:12:32.159 unless you're saying he was that much of an umi, 1377 01:12:32.279 --> 01:12:35.439 that much ignorant. He didn't know that the Christians their 1378 01:12:35.479 --> 01:12:39.399 Old Testament would have variations with the Jewish scriptures because 1379 01:12:39.439 --> 01:12:42.720 he confirmed them. You'll find that in chapter three, verses 1380 01:12:42.760 --> 01:12:46.079 three to four, five, verse forty eight, Chapter two versus 1381 01:12:46.159 --> 01:12:48.439 forty forty four. But then Tad insult an injury to 1382 01:12:48.520 --> 01:12:52.279 your case in chapter three, verse fifty. In chapter five, 1383 01:12:52.399 --> 01:12:55.119 verse forty six. In chapter sixty one, verse six, it 1384 01:12:55.159 --> 01:13:00.000 says Jesus confirmed Musseddep and Limabina Yadeh confirm the scripture 1385 01:13:00.159 --> 01:13:03.520 between his hands. Well, did Allah not know that at 1386 01:13:03.560 --> 01:13:06.600 the time of Jesus there were different textual traditions of 1387 01:13:06.640 --> 01:13:09.119 the Old Testament that were not uniformed. They had variations. 1388 01:13:09.479 --> 01:13:12.119 So is he deceiving Jesus? Did your God deceive Jesus 1389 01:13:12.159 --> 01:13:14.640 to confirm all the scriptures? Not a word about the 1390 01:13:14.720 --> 01:13:18.560 variations proving textual corruption? So you know more than your 1391 01:13:18.600 --> 01:13:21.079 God and your prophet. Why are you a Muslim? But 1392 01:13:21.199 --> 01:13:24.000 now let's talk about the variant readings in your Qoran 1393 01:13:24.199 --> 01:13:28.199 that are significant that you don't find in the Othmonic codecs. 1394 01:13:28.239 --> 01:13:30.800 For example, chapter thirty seven, verse twelve of the Churn. 1395 01:13:30.880 --> 01:13:32.840 When you read it today, it says, in fact, you 1396 01:13:33.000 --> 01:13:36.560 are astonished by their denial while they ridicule you. But 1397 01:13:36.880 --> 01:13:40.439 Imantamia uses a variant to prove that your God gets 1398 01:13:40.479 --> 01:13:43.760 shocked and amazed. And here's how he quotes it, In fact, 1399 01:13:44.000 --> 01:13:48.159 I was astonished by their denial while they ridicule you. So, now, Ijaz, 1400 01:13:49.359 --> 01:13:52.800 who's getting astonished? Does your God get astonished a jeptu 1401 01:13:53.359 --> 01:13:56.520 or you were astonished? That's not the same and it 1402 01:13:56.600 --> 01:14:00.640 doesn't affect theology because shows that your God is affected 1403 01:14:00.760 --> 01:14:03.199 by your actions in time, which means he was caught 1404 01:14:03.239 --> 01:14:06.560 by surprise. So this is a meaningful variant. But wait, 1405 01:14:06.600 --> 01:14:10.119 we got another variant chapter thirty three, verse six, according 1406 01:14:10.199 --> 01:14:13.840 to the Ubai bin Kapp as well as Abdullah Ebin 1407 01:14:13.880 --> 01:14:18.439 Masud and others, a host of them Mujahid Katl Hassan. 1408 01:14:19.199 --> 01:14:23.279 There was an additional line in thirty three sixty for 1409 01:14:23.399 --> 01:14:27.279 thirty three verse six where it says, and he is 1410 01:14:28.039 --> 01:14:31.680 a father to you and his wives are your mothers. 1411 01:14:32.000 --> 01:14:34.920 A father to you and his wives are your mothers. 1412 01:14:34.960 --> 01:14:37.520 Where is that phrase a father to you? And this 1413 01:14:37.680 --> 01:14:41.439 is confirmed by Muhammad Asad ab Yusefali, which is why 1414 01:14:41.760 --> 01:14:44.760 Muhammad Asad includes the words a father to them a 1415 01:14:44.880 --> 01:14:48.279 father to you in brackets. That's significant, don't you think? 1416 01:14:48.399 --> 01:14:50.279 But where is it now? How much time I have? 1417 01:14:50.399 --> 01:14:52.720 Because I got a lot of these fifty seconds shows 1418 01:14:52.760 --> 01:14:53.520 Kron is corrupted? 1419 01:14:53.720 --> 01:14:55.399 How many twelve seconds? 1420 01:14:55.960 --> 01:14:58.960 Twelve second? Anyway, the point is your own standard berries 1421 01:14:59.039 --> 01:15:02.039 or Kron. Because there are no two chronic manuscripts that 1422 01:15:02.079 --> 01:15:05.279 are one hundred percent identical. Point to the two chronic 1423 01:15:05.319 --> 01:15:07.560 manuscripts that are time identical. 1424 01:15:07.880 --> 01:15:10.399 Let's see, all right, turn it back to the team. 1425 01:15:10.520 --> 01:15:12.600 Is love bottom of the second round? 1426 01:15:13.880 --> 01:15:15.840 Yep, So let me just wrench through this quickly. 1427 01:15:16.079 --> 01:15:17.399 Wait, can I make some points first? 1428 01:15:17.520 --> 01:15:17.640 Yes? 1429 01:15:19.159 --> 01:15:21.960 So what the audience should know, like all that gobbledy 1430 01:15:22.039 --> 01:15:25.199 group that we just heard from the Christian side. When 1431 01:15:25.279 --> 01:15:28.239 it comes to the textual preservation of the Quran, we 1432 01:15:28.359 --> 01:15:33.760 have manuscripts, physical manuscripts that archaeological archaeologists have found that 1433 01:15:34.039 --> 01:15:36.399 date are radio carbon dated to the time of the 1434 01:15:36.439 --> 01:15:41.640 prophet Peace be upon Him, that match with what Muslims read, memorize, 1435 01:15:41.680 --> 01:15:44.920 and recite today. There is nothing like that. When it 1436 01:15:45.000 --> 01:15:48.319 comes to the Bible, the earliest complete manuscript of the 1437 01:15:48.399 --> 01:15:52.159 New Testament is from the fourth century, over three hundred 1438 01:15:52.239 --> 01:15:55.600 years after Jesus. So the audience needs to remember this 1439 01:15:55.720 --> 01:15:58.199 is a huge difference. How can we tell that between 1440 01:15:58.319 --> 01:16:01.880 the three hundred years that Jesus alive to the first manuscript, 1441 01:16:02.239 --> 01:16:05.159 complete manuscript of the New Testament being found, so many 1442 01:16:05.199 --> 01:16:08.119 of the teachings of Jesus haven't been distorted, have n't 1443 01:16:08.119 --> 01:16:10.680 been changed, haven't been altered for the sake of political 1444 01:16:10.720 --> 01:16:14.560 expedience or whatever theological experience, whatever it may be. So 1445 01:16:14.720 --> 01:16:16.840 this is a huge difference between the or on in 1446 01:16:16.920 --> 01:16:20.479 the Bible. Let's look at apocryphal text. Let's look at 1447 01:16:20.520 --> 01:16:25.680 the fact that the Catholic Old Testament has more books 1448 01:16:25.960 --> 01:16:30.319 than the masoretic text of the Hebrew Bible. You have 1449 01:16:31.119 --> 01:16:33.920 entire books we're not talking about. Like all Stam can 1450 01:16:34.039 --> 01:16:36.960 bring up are like difference in pronoun usage, like yah 1451 01:16:37.039 --> 01:16:40.119 malun versus tam malun in Arabic. He doesn't even know Arabic. 1452 01:16:40.439 --> 01:16:43.159 That's like pronouns, Like a difference in pronouns, and he 1453 01:16:43.319 --> 01:16:46.079 wants to make it a big Oh, this is so significant. Yeah, 1454 01:16:46.199 --> 01:16:49.880 Muslims know about the ad Muslims memorize the different modes 1455 01:16:49.920 --> 01:16:52.680 of recitation. So what even people, many people that I 1456 01:16:52.840 --> 01:16:55.600 know have memorized them. But how about the Catholic Bible 1457 01:16:55.720 --> 01:16:59.119 having the Book of Judith, having first and second Maccabees, 1458 01:16:59.439 --> 01:17:02.520 having additions to the Book of Daniel, the additions to 1459 01:17:02.560 --> 01:17:04.920 the Book of Esther, the Book of Susannah, all of 1460 01:17:05.000 --> 01:17:08.119 these editions that are not found in the Masoretic text. 1461 01:17:08.479 --> 01:17:11.079 Then you have another variation of the Old Testament with 1462 01:17:11.279 --> 01:17:15.760 the Dead Sea Scrolls, the septuagen is the Catholic version. 1463 01:17:16.039 --> 01:17:19.199 You have all of these different manuscripts that are not 1464 01:17:19.479 --> 01:17:23.520 small little differences. There are entire books that are not found. 1465 01:17:23.920 --> 01:17:27.600 Now he wants to mention the suras from Obeban cap. 1466 01:17:28.199 --> 01:17:30.600 One thing that Muslims also know is that there is 1467 01:17:30.680 --> 01:17:33.399 disagreement about whether certain verses are part of the Koran 1468 01:17:33.560 --> 01:17:36.359 or not. A very well known disagreement is on the 1469 01:17:36.439 --> 01:17:40.800 besmla bis mila is that part of every sura of 1470 01:17:40.920 --> 01:17:44.520 the Quran? Is it only part of There is a 1471 01:17:44.600 --> 01:17:47.079 well known disagreement among the schools of thought on this. 1472 01:17:47.359 --> 01:17:49.279 But that's not some mind blown It's not like a 1473 01:17:49.479 --> 01:17:53.199 completely different book that's not found in the Catholic version 1474 01:17:53.439 --> 01:17:56.359 or the Orthodox version of the Bible. It's just one 1475 01:17:56.439 --> 01:17:59.840 word bis mila. Or if you're looking at the the 1476 01:18:01.479 --> 01:18:05.079 the different suras that you're claiming are missing. Any Muslim 1477 01:18:05.119 --> 01:18:07.439 who reads these, I can even read you the translation 1478 01:18:07.560 --> 01:18:10.760 of these suras. They're just the d'a, the prayer that 1479 01:18:10.920 --> 01:18:14.720 is read in Khunut, in the pri in the Khunut prayer. 1480 01:18:15.279 --> 01:18:17.720 And there was a different disagreement among some of the 1481 01:18:17.800 --> 01:18:20.560 companions on whether this is part of the Koran, just 1482 01:18:20.720 --> 01:18:22.840 like there's a disagreement on the best mela, on the 1483 01:18:22.880 --> 01:18:26.520 bismula being part of every single verse or not. This 1484 01:18:26.720 --> 01:18:29.720 is not like some missing book that we don't know about, Like, 1485 01:18:29.840 --> 01:18:33.239 this is what Muslims are reciting in prayer every day 1486 01:18:33.520 --> 01:18:36.479 or every week on a regular basis. So you're trying 1487 01:18:36.479 --> 01:18:39.119 to make a big deal out of the Qoranic variation 1488 01:18:39.399 --> 01:18:42.840 to hide the fact that the text of the Bible 1489 01:18:43.039 --> 01:18:46.560 is not preserved. You can't find authentic manuscript within three 1490 01:18:46.640 --> 01:18:49.680 hundred years of Jesus' life, let alone Moses. You have 1491 01:18:49.880 --> 01:18:53.600 all of these variations with the Old Testament. The sects, 1492 01:18:53.800 --> 01:18:57.000 the Christian denominations do not agree on what the books 1493 01:18:57.000 --> 01:18:59.760 of the Bible are. What is the canonical books of 1494 01:18:59.760 --> 01:19:02.720 the You have all of these disagreements, but we should 1495 01:19:02.760 --> 01:19:04.960 ignore all that. And you want to bring up yeah, 1496 01:19:05.039 --> 01:19:07.960 malun versus tom Adlon or edgip to it like this 1497 01:19:08.119 --> 01:19:11.760 is a joke. So your audience is ignorant of Arabic. 1498 01:19:11.880 --> 01:19:14.760 That's why this seems like a big revelation to them. 1499 01:19:14.840 --> 01:19:16.560 But for Muslims it's laugh of time. 1500 01:19:16.960 --> 01:19:19.479 Go ahead, okay, thak for four minutes. 1501 01:19:20.439 --> 01:19:22.119 Yeah, I just have two points, Sarah. First of all, 1502 01:19:22.319 --> 01:19:26.000 Daniel said the sub tuagent is the Catholic version, which 1503 01:19:26.079 --> 01:19:29.399 is not true. It's that's the Orthodox Old Testament. This 1504 01:19:29.520 --> 01:19:32.479 really has nothing to do with the topic that we're discussing. 1505 01:19:32.640 --> 01:19:36.640 Because the Masoretic text was used by some of the Jews. 1506 01:19:36.800 --> 01:19:39.079 There were other groups of Jews that also use the 1507 01:19:39.119 --> 01:19:41.439 subtu agent. So you seem to be totally unaware of 1508 01:19:41.439 --> 01:19:43.680 any of that, which has nothing to do with which 1509 01:19:43.760 --> 01:19:47.039 ones are the correct canon. And Sam and I agree 1510 01:19:47.079 --> 01:19:48.920 on that point. So Sam will let you go. 1511 01:19:49.479 --> 01:19:52.399 Yeah, now, guys, noticed the deceit in the Smoke and Mirrors. 1512 01:19:52.439 --> 01:19:54.439 You see the deception on part of Daniel. He appealed 1513 01:19:54.479 --> 01:19:57.239 to the Birmingham Kuran, and then he compared that to 1514 01:19:57.640 --> 01:20:00.720 the later codices, which were more complete, not to the 1515 01:20:00.760 --> 01:20:03.880 papyri that appears from the second, third, fourth centuries. Now, 1516 01:20:03.960 --> 01:20:07.680 when a challenge Daniel the Birmingham Koran that you say 1517 01:20:07.760 --> 01:20:11.039 is from the time Muhammed, how many surahs are contained? 1518 01:20:11.159 --> 01:20:13.319 You have all one hundred and fourteen surahs. You have 1519 01:20:13.399 --> 01:20:16.359 every verse of every sur in the Birmingham Koran. See again, 1520 01:20:16.640 --> 01:20:20.720 this kind of deceit and dishonesty is unbecoming someone who 1521 01:20:20.760 --> 01:20:23.039 claims to follow the God of Truth. Now let's come 1522 01:20:23.079 --> 01:20:25.680 back to how we try to brush aside the variant readings. 1523 01:20:26.039 --> 01:20:28.159 Notice what I said about thirty seven to twelve. One 1524 01:20:28.239 --> 01:20:31.239 says you were astonished. The one has is God saying 1525 01:20:31.319 --> 01:20:34.279 I was astonished. Oh, but that's no big deal, that's 1526 01:20:34.319 --> 01:20:36.680 something minor. We can brush it aside. Oh really, So 1527 01:20:36.760 --> 01:20:40.399 are you acknowledging that the variant reading affects whether your 1528 01:20:40.479 --> 01:20:44.600 God can be impacted by the actions of his creatures 1529 01:20:44.640 --> 01:20:47.399 in time and space. Because I was astonished and you 1530 01:20:47.479 --> 01:20:49.520 are astonished is not the same unless you think Muhammad 1531 01:20:49.560 --> 01:20:52.399 is a lah and what Muhammad feels Allah feels. Thirdly, 1532 01:20:52.840 --> 01:20:56.880 notice again he compares apples and pineapples. He's comparing a 1533 01:20:57.000 --> 01:21:00.760 collection of different books the Bible, written by different authors 1534 01:21:01.239 --> 01:21:05.479 at different times and comparing it with one Koran that 1535 01:21:05.560 --> 01:21:09.359 supposedly came through one medium, and yet the companion's Muhammad 1536 01:21:09.359 --> 01:21:12.439 cannot agree on the content of that one Koran. You 1537 01:21:12.600 --> 01:21:16.319 just buried yourself, Daniel, because that argument works more forcefully 1538 01:21:16.319 --> 01:21:19.920 against your Koran, because you're comparing the work of one 1539 01:21:20.000 --> 01:21:23.760 author and his companions can't figure out how many sort us, 1540 01:21:23.880 --> 01:21:26.960 how many chapters with a collection of books written by 1541 01:21:27.039 --> 01:21:30.359 different people at different times, so there'll be some natural 1542 01:21:30.479 --> 01:21:33.359 confusion whether this book really comes from an inspired author. 1543 01:21:33.840 --> 01:21:36.520 But we shouldn't find that problem with your Koran if 1544 01:21:36.560 --> 01:21:39.720 there's only one medium and they all memorize the Koran perfectly, 1545 01:21:39.800 --> 01:21:43.319 which is a lie from the pitavel. Moreover, deal with 1546 01:21:43.439 --> 01:21:46.840 the actual argument I brought up. Abdullah ibn Masud is 1547 01:21:46.920 --> 01:21:50.520 no Joshmo Obi bin Kab no Joshmo. They are two 1548 01:21:50.800 --> 01:21:53.840 of the four men that your prophets said learn the 1549 01:21:53.920 --> 01:21:57.560 Koran from, and I have here traditions Sahi. That's an 1550 01:21:57.560 --> 01:22:01.079 Abdillah bent Massud recite it the Koran in front of 1551 01:22:01.359 --> 01:22:04.720 compantits Muhammad, and they agreed that his recitation is fresh 1552 01:22:05.159 --> 01:22:07.960 and the way it was revealed by Gabriel through Muhammad. 1553 01:22:08.000 --> 01:22:11.239 And yet your Othmanic Koran doesn't agree to the point 1554 01:22:11.319 --> 01:22:15.159 that your uthman wanted to burn Abdillah eben Masuit's khan. 1555 01:22:15.359 --> 01:22:19.199 Why if they are slight variations, you don't go to war. 1556 01:22:19.560 --> 01:22:21.920 You don't accuse each other of corrupting the Koran over 1557 01:22:22.039 --> 01:22:26.239 slight durations. Stop with the lies sailed Bukhati, volume six, 1558 01:22:26.399 --> 01:22:28.880 five oh nine, five ten. So again we're gonna ask you, 1559 01:22:29.239 --> 01:22:31.359 how come the competitis of Muhammad could not figure out 1560 01:22:31.560 --> 01:22:34.600 how many chapters abdulah Ban Wassud said only one hundred 1561 01:22:34.600 --> 01:22:37.079 and eleven, Obi bin Kopp said one sixteen, which you 1562 01:22:37.159 --> 01:22:39.680 tried to pass off as dua. Are you saying, Obi 1563 01:22:39.760 --> 01:22:42.119 bin Kapp, the master of the chronic reciters did not 1564 01:22:42.279 --> 01:22:44.920 know those two chapters were not suris but prayers. So 1565 01:22:45.079 --> 01:22:47.479 you know more than Ubai, which means that your prophet 1566 01:22:47.600 --> 01:22:51.079 made a pathetic judgment call because he mentioned him as 1567 01:22:51.119 --> 01:22:54.479 one of the four. Not you, Daniel Hakikachu. Thank you 1568 01:22:54.600 --> 01:22:57.319 for bearing your Koran and thank you for showing the 1569 01:22:57.399 --> 01:22:59.920 Mahma didn't know what he's talking about. Muhammad confirmed the Bible, 1570 01:23:00.000 --> 01:23:02.960 and you're saying, no, he's wrong. Why are you a Muslim? Repent? 1571 01:23:03.199 --> 01:23:06.039 Come to Jesus Mohammed's God and judge. Think my time 1572 01:23:06.159 --> 01:23:06.359 is up? 1573 01:23:06.680 --> 01:23:08.600 All right? Now? You still got fifteen seconds, but if 1574 01:23:08.640 --> 01:23:09.000 that are. 1575 01:23:09.000 --> 01:23:12.479 Yeah, I'm saying, now stop what the paganism. Come to 1576 01:23:12.600 --> 01:23:15.159 Jesus moments God. But thank you, Daniel, you helped me 1577 01:23:15.279 --> 01:23:17.800 show that you don't believe Muhammad. You think Muhammad didn't 1578 01:23:17.800 --> 01:23:19.479 know what he's talking about, and I agree, and the 1579 01:23:19.560 --> 01:23:21.279 scholars know more than Muhammad. Stop being a. 1580 01:23:21.359 --> 01:23:26.199 Muslim, all right, and that is time So this is 1581 01:23:26.239 --> 01:23:27.920 going to be the bottom of the third round again 1582 01:23:28.000 --> 01:23:30.760 Authenticity of Scripture. So I'm going to turn into team 1583 01:23:30.840 --> 01:23:32.560 as I'm to finish this up and then if you 1584 01:23:32.640 --> 01:23:36.079 guys want, we will go ahead and have another open 1585 01:23:36.159 --> 01:23:36.760 dialogue round. 1586 01:23:36.960 --> 01:23:39.640 You can tolerate it good, yeah, yeah, But what I'm. 1587 01:23:39.520 --> 01:23:41.199 Gonna have to do is for this open dialogue round, 1588 01:23:41.199 --> 01:23:42.840 it's going to be a question answered. So both parties 1589 01:23:42.880 --> 01:23:44.479 will be able to ask a question to the other party. 1590 01:23:44.560 --> 01:23:46.680 Other party answers and then they ask a question in return, 1591 01:23:46.760 --> 01:23:48.680 but you have to answer the question. So that's how 1592 01:23:48.720 --> 01:23:50.600 we'll have to do a question answer for each each 1593 01:23:50.680 --> 01:23:52.920 party goes ahead and gets a question. We'll start with 1594 01:23:53.159 --> 01:23:55.960 U with Dan, he could just ask a question to 1595 01:23:56.000 --> 01:23:58.039 the team or to a particular person and then that 1596 01:23:58.119 --> 01:23:59.920 person answer that question. They can go ahead and ask 1597 01:24:00.000 --> 01:24:01.720 another member of the team. That will keep a fair 1598 01:24:01.920 --> 01:24:04.960 for five minutes on o'clock. So teamsam, are you guys ready? 1599 01:24:06.760 --> 01:24:09.000 But again this is your guys four minutes uninterrupted. Notes 1600 01:24:09.000 --> 01:24:11.880 to you guys for the last round of Authenticity in Scripture. 1601 01:24:12.720 --> 01:24:14.880 Whenever you guys start speaking, we'll turn the clock on. 1602 01:24:14.920 --> 01:24:18.880 Go ahead, this is the last round, or do they 1603 01:24:19.039 --> 01:24:20.439 get a response after. 1604 01:24:20.560 --> 01:24:22.119 No, this is the last round, and then it's opened 1605 01:24:22.119 --> 01:24:24.000 to all log after this go ahead. 1606 01:24:24.039 --> 01:24:32.319 You just you're on mute. You're still on mute, he jes. 1607 01:24:34.760 --> 01:24:37.600 Yeap, so I'll just starting the time out. So I 1608 01:24:37.720 --> 01:24:40.159 think that's some to spent most of his time reading 1609 01:24:40.359 --> 01:24:43.840 lists of verses that he does not understand Jeff's consensus 1610 01:24:43.920 --> 01:24:46.600 among the early Muslims as to what the is and 1611 01:24:46.760 --> 01:24:50.079 in fact what he's appealing to. Visit the codec from 1612 01:24:50.119 --> 01:24:52.760 some of the companions. These are only found in a 1613 01:24:53.279 --> 01:24:56.960 tradition that are to Jeffrey translated I think in the 1614 01:24:57.039 --> 01:25:00.039 nineteenth or twentieth century. It does not refer to the 1615 01:25:00.199 --> 01:25:04.319 actual physical manuscript that is actually known and dated and seen. 1616 01:25:04.640 --> 01:25:08.039 So there's a difference between a tradition being said in 1617 01:25:08.279 --> 01:25:11.960 past as oppose the physical manuscript in existence. And the 1618 01:25:12.119 --> 01:25:15.239 same people that transmit to kdid the same people that 1619 01:25:15.359 --> 01:25:19.159 transmit the Koran, they transmitted to Masud. They transmitted through 1620 01:25:19.199 --> 01:25:21.920 the companions, and at least three of the seven chains 1621 01:25:22.159 --> 01:25:24.800 that are well known, so there's no difference among the 1622 01:25:24.880 --> 01:25:28.000 companions as the number of sewers in the Quran. Please 1623 01:25:28.039 --> 01:25:31.560 don't bring me something at art Jeffrey randomly translated that 1624 01:25:31.800 --> 01:25:35.279 no academical life accepts. And by academic here we refer 1625 01:25:35.520 --> 01:25:38.199 to the Muslims who transmitted the Koran because they would 1626 01:25:38.239 --> 01:25:41.920 counted letter by letter, line by line psychometry. So we 1627 01:25:42.079 --> 01:25:45.199 actually have a way that we can mathematically know how 1628 01:25:45.279 --> 01:25:49.039 many a yats were written in manuscripts. It isn't done randomly. 1629 01:25:49.279 --> 01:25:51.359 So I'm not going to be like Sam and pretend 1630 01:25:51.439 --> 01:25:54.479 to know what the Quran says. There is consensus that 1631 01:25:54.640 --> 01:25:57.680 the Muslims never took the Bible descripture. How do we 1632 01:25:57.800 --> 01:25:59.760 know that because a lot of commands is to Suo 1633 01:25:59.760 --> 01:26:02.680 Buck to testify and believe in the scriptures that he 1634 01:26:02.760 --> 01:26:05.479 has revealed. And when we find us in the Quran, 1635 01:26:05.800 --> 01:26:09.000 we find no companion saying that it is required as 1636 01:26:09.079 --> 01:26:12.000 a mission to believe in the Bible as it exists today. 1637 01:26:12.239 --> 01:26:15.359 There is no such compulsion, whereas we have been are 1638 01:26:15.439 --> 01:26:19.119 composed to believe that the revelations were given to profits 1639 01:26:19.159 --> 01:26:22.199 in the past. When he mentioned Jesus in the Kuran, 1640 01:26:22.640 --> 01:26:25.600 Jesus affirms the Revelation revealed it to him. This is 1641 01:26:25.640 --> 01:26:27.640 what a lot mentions in the Kuran. He is not 1642 01:26:27.800 --> 01:26:30.439 testified to a book that came after him, which is 1643 01:26:30.479 --> 01:26:32.640 what some believes in. And let's be clear here we 1644 01:26:32.760 --> 01:26:36.640 have call forty seven sonariotop copy top copy survi Medino 1645 01:26:36.720 --> 01:26:40.279 one A. We have so many manuscripts after Kuran within 1646 01:26:40.359 --> 01:26:42.520 the first one hundred years of the prophet Muhammad, p 1647 01:26:42.600 --> 01:26:46.079 spe upon him that complete the Kuran. This is complete 1648 01:26:46.159 --> 01:26:49.039 in distinction to the Bible, where you don't have anything 1649 01:26:49.079 --> 01:26:52.239 even similar to it. You have no second century manuscripts, 1650 01:26:52.600 --> 01:26:56.960 no third century manuscripts. How do we notice Elijah Hickson text, 1651 01:26:57.039 --> 01:27:00.720 your critic, he dates manuscripts, dates an entire institutes at 1652 01:27:00.720 --> 01:27:03.600 the University of Moans, so that determines the propriety under 1653 01:27:03.680 --> 01:27:06.840 manuscripts after New Testament. And they don't determine that there's 1654 01:27:06.880 --> 01:27:09.840 a single manuscript in the second century. And when it 1655 01:27:09.880 --> 01:27:12.880 comes to the third century, as Sam has admitted, he 1656 01:27:13.039 --> 01:27:16.640 believes that Credets Nyaks in the fourth century is full 1657 01:27:16.680 --> 01:27:20.159 of errors. Here seasoned lies, that's your most reliable manuscript, 1658 01:27:20.359 --> 01:27:23.680 if the most reliable physically, if still with lies, don't 1659 01:27:23.720 --> 01:27:25.960 pretend to tell me what the Kuran says, because you 1660 01:27:26.039 --> 01:27:28.560 simply don't know it. And I'll end with this, The 1661 01:27:28.640 --> 01:27:32.119 God of the New Testament you said, I don't think 1662 01:27:32.159 --> 01:27:36.359 he's intelligent, or how do I say this? Understand scripture? 1663 01:27:36.600 --> 01:27:38.520 How could the God of the Old Testament and the 1664 01:27:38.600 --> 01:27:42.560 New Testament forget his name in Exodus three fourteen in 1665 01:27:42.640 --> 01:27:45.439 the Greek subtulogen the name that he's supposed to give 1666 01:27:45.640 --> 01:27:49.479 is our own women. The being Jesus in New Testament 1667 01:27:49.600 --> 01:27:53.239 gives the wrong frise ego. He misquotes his own sacred name. 1668 01:27:53.439 --> 01:27:57.560 That generation for generation must be mean. It's ridiculous. Titus 1669 01:27:57.640 --> 01:27:59.880 three nine. God has to tell you that don't be 1670 01:28:00.359 --> 01:28:03.880 genealogies because they're glad to foolish arguments. Two of your 1671 01:28:03.960 --> 01:28:09.479 gospels use genealogies as a basis the messianic place of Christ. 1672 01:28:09.600 --> 01:28:12.560 It's ridiculous. I'm sorry. Address the questions under claims on 1673 01:28:12.640 --> 01:28:16.079 the manuscripts. Don't bring me random things that you don't understand. 1674 01:28:17.439 --> 01:28:20.399 Yeah, so, I mean, there's twenty seconds one of the 1675 01:28:20.479 --> 01:28:24.039 things about the Houronic manuscript. It seems like Sam only 1676 01:28:24.079 --> 01:28:27.560 knows about the Birmingham manuscript. There are many manuscripts if 1677 01:28:27.600 --> 01:28:30.079 you take attention. When he was speaking in the opening, 1678 01:28:30.199 --> 01:28:33.159 he listed the different code of Sees, the different manuscripts. 1679 01:28:33.439 --> 01:28:36.880 All of those together are the or on that we 1680 01:28:37.039 --> 01:28:39.880 read today. It's not just contained to one manuscript. 1681 01:28:40.239 --> 01:28:43.399 All right, So what I'll do is, so, do you 1682 01:28:43.479 --> 01:28:45.000 guys want to do the open dialog or do you 1683 01:28:45.039 --> 01:28:46.720 guys want to move on to the third way? 1684 01:28:46.920 --> 01:28:48.920 Yeah, if it doesn't go into like a free focus. 1685 01:28:49.399 --> 01:28:50.880 So this is how we're going to do it, guys, 1686 01:28:51.239 --> 01:28:54.239 five minutes on o'clock. I will go ahead and kick 1687 01:28:54.279 --> 01:28:56.680 it off with whoever wants asked for a question. Let's say, 1688 01:28:56.680 --> 01:28:58.399 for example, who was asking Dan? 1689 01:28:58.840 --> 01:28:59.039 Yeah? 1690 01:28:59.199 --> 01:29:00.960 Okay, so Dan, when you ask your question, you can 1691 01:29:01.039 --> 01:29:04.479 direct to either to Sam or Jay. Once answer the question, 1692 01:29:04.560 --> 01:29:06.159 now they get to go ahead and direct the question 1693 01:29:06.279 --> 01:29:08.840 back to a member of whether it be you or 1694 01:29:09.319 --> 01:29:12.039 to Ejazz. So, and then you got to answer the question, 1695 01:29:12.199 --> 01:29:14.439 and then you get the ability to ask a counter 1696 01:29:14.560 --> 01:29:17.079 question back after you answer it. Okay, fair enough. That 1697 01:29:17.199 --> 01:29:19.560 way we're able to keep this thing moving. Everyone's able 1698 01:29:19.640 --> 01:29:21.960 to be involved and to get their questions asked and answered, 1699 01:29:22.199 --> 01:29:24.399 and we can still have open dialogue here to some degree. 1700 01:29:25.039 --> 01:29:26.439 I'll turn it over to you, Dan. We got five 1701 01:29:26.479 --> 01:29:28.279 minutes on a clock, guys, let's be strict on the time. 1702 01:29:28.520 --> 01:29:32.079 Go ahead, please, okay, can you either of you. Explain 1703 01:29:32.119 --> 01:29:36.000 to me how many Western scholars of the Bible believe 1704 01:29:36.119 --> 01:29:39.520 that the Old Testament can be traced back to Moses 1705 01:29:39.640 --> 01:29:42.840 versus how many believe that the Qoran can be traced 1706 01:29:42.920 --> 01:29:44.640 to the life of the prophet Muhammad. 1707 01:29:45.800 --> 01:29:48.720 Do you want an answer that, jay, Sure? Yeah, Well 1708 01:29:49.279 --> 01:29:53.760 I have one better for you than Muslim scholar Western scholars. 1709 01:29:53.800 --> 01:29:56.079 I have your profit, so I keep appealing to your profit. 1710 01:29:56.640 --> 01:29:59.039 So if what's the scholars are right, then join me 1711 01:29:59.119 --> 01:30:01.640 in saying Muhammed is an antichrist, a false prophet. I 1712 01:30:01.720 --> 01:30:04.319 appeal to your prophet. You appeal to Western scholars. And 1713 01:30:04.399 --> 01:30:06.680 it depends on which Western scholars you want to appeal to, 1714 01:30:07.119 --> 01:30:10.520 because not all we scholars believe the same thing and 1715 01:30:10.680 --> 01:30:13.520 hold the same presuppositions. But I can also appeal to 1716 01:30:13.560 --> 01:30:15.960 Western scholars that don't think that your Qur'an as you 1717 01:30:16.079 --> 01:30:21.359 have it, it's even from Othman. It's actually from Abdolmatic 1718 01:30:21.680 --> 01:30:24.279 from the eighth centuries. But I did you better. I 1719 01:30:24.359 --> 01:30:26.399 went to Muhammad. Why do you have a problem Muhammad? 1720 01:30:26.479 --> 01:30:28.319 Why are you ashamed of Muhammad? He's your prophet, right, 1721 01:30:28.760 --> 01:30:32.920 Your prophet tells me that the scriptures that Jesus had 1722 01:30:33.600 --> 01:30:37.239 that Torah is the uncorrupt revelation of God, perfectly preserved, 1723 01:30:37.279 --> 01:30:39.960 and Jesus confirmed it. And since you believe that Torah 1724 01:30:40.359 --> 01:30:42.720 was given to Moses, your prophet did it for me. 1725 01:30:42.920 --> 01:30:45.680 So if you give me ninety nine percent of uston scholarship, 1726 01:30:46.560 --> 01:30:50.039 then either your prophet is wrong and admit he is 1727 01:30:50.119 --> 01:30:52.640 and I agree is but for other reasons right, or 1728 01:30:52.680 --> 01:30:54.760 the scholars are wrong. You can't have your cake and 1729 01:30:54.840 --> 01:30:57.720 eat it too. Why do you keep doing jihad against 1730 01:30:57.720 --> 01:31:00.760 your prophet? Fisa bi la lah? Should I agree with them? 1731 01:31:01.079 --> 01:31:03.600 Now? Yeah, this is a false dilemma because we have 1732 01:31:03.680 --> 01:31:04.560 the physical monugs. 1733 01:31:05.600 --> 01:31:09.439 Well, so now Sam, guests answer that I ask a 1734 01:31:09.560 --> 01:31:11.920 question back in return, Let's put twenty seconds on the clock, 1735 01:31:11.960 --> 01:31:15.159 real quick. Go ahead, Sam, ask the question, and then 1736 01:31:15.159 --> 01:31:17.079 they get to respond answer your question to respond to you. 1737 01:31:17.720 --> 01:31:21.079 Okay, Now, you guys have been straw manning the arguments 1738 01:31:21.079 --> 01:31:24.079 I've been presenting. So now I'm going to ask both 1739 01:31:24.119 --> 01:31:27.560 of you give me the date of the oldest extent 1740 01:31:27.800 --> 01:31:31.520 Mosaf that has all one hundred and fourteen chapters, the 1741 01:31:31.760 --> 01:31:35.359 oldest copy that has one hundred and fourteen chapters, and 1742 01:31:35.840 --> 01:31:38.680 point out to two chronic manuscripts that are one hundred 1743 01:31:38.680 --> 01:31:39.520 percent identical. 1744 01:31:39.840 --> 01:31:43.640 Go ahead, So we address the question by saying there 1745 01:31:43.720 --> 01:31:46.920 is not one manuscript, there are several that date to 1746 01:31:47.039 --> 01:31:49.560 within the lifetime of the profit piece to be upon him. 1747 01:31:49.600 --> 01:31:52.399 You can go to Ejazz's opening statement. He lists them. 1748 01:31:52.479 --> 01:31:54.399 You didn't pay attention to what he said, so you're 1749 01:31:54.439 --> 01:31:57.000 asking the same question over and over again. The answer 1750 01:31:57.079 --> 01:32:00.079 to how many Western scholars think that the pentitude the 1751 01:32:00.119 --> 01:32:03.800 Old Testament goes back to Moses is zero zero Western scholars. 1752 01:32:04.079 --> 01:32:07.520 How many Western scholars scholars of the Bible think that 1753 01:32:07.760 --> 01:32:10.960 the New Testament goes to the time of Jesus zero 1754 01:32:11.439 --> 01:32:15.159 zero Western scholars. How many academics of Quronic studies who 1755 01:32:15.159 --> 01:32:17.560 are non Muslim, by the way, they don't necessarily even 1756 01:32:17.880 --> 01:32:21.640 like Islam, believe that the Quran can be dated radiocarbon 1757 01:32:21.720 --> 01:32:25.039 dated scientifically to the time of the prophet. That is 1758 01:32:25.079 --> 01:32:27.720 the academic consensus, and you can read about that in 1759 01:32:27.840 --> 01:32:31.680 books like the Kurana Historical Critical Introduction by Nikolai Sinai 1760 01:32:32.199 --> 01:32:34.720 Sana and the Origins of the Quran by behn Am 1761 01:32:34.800 --> 01:32:38.039 Sadafy and Mossa and Godharzi and Islam and the Empires 1762 01:32:38.039 --> 01:32:40.800 of Faith by Sean Anthony. These are non Muslim, many 1763 01:32:40.840 --> 01:32:43.279 of them, and they believe that the Qur'an not just 1764 01:32:43.359 --> 01:32:47.359 one manuscript, but multiple manuscripts that are aligned and aligned 1765 01:32:47.399 --> 01:32:49.600 with what we as Muslims read and recite today. Of 1766 01:32:49.640 --> 01:32:53.640 the Quran is dated scientifically to the time of the prophet, 1767 01:32:53.720 --> 01:32:55.760 Peace be upon him. You can't say that about the 1768 01:32:55.800 --> 01:32:58.239 Old Testament going back to Moses. You can't say that 1769 01:32:58.319 --> 01:33:01.479 about the New Testament going back to Jesus. The earliest 1770 01:33:01.600 --> 01:33:04.600 full manuscript of the New Testament only goes to the 1771 01:33:04.680 --> 01:33:09.039 fourth century, over three hundred years after Jesus lived. Why 1772 01:33:09.079 --> 01:33:09.880 don't you address that? 1773 01:33:10.319 --> 01:33:15.279 But Doniel just says, but that manuscript is belongs in 1774 01:33:15.319 --> 01:33:18.399 the trash. Si says this strip. 1775 01:33:18.720 --> 01:33:19.399 I asked you question. 1776 01:33:22.880 --> 01:33:25.640 Okay, pause clock real quicker pause, pause, clock real fast. 1777 01:33:26.560 --> 01:33:27.560 Did answer that question? 1778 01:33:28.159 --> 01:33:28.439 It will? 1779 01:33:28.479 --> 01:33:30.840 Sammy'll ask you a question matter you I'm asking you 1780 01:33:31.079 --> 01:33:33.439 for me. Do you want to answer the question he 1781 01:33:33.520 --> 01:33:36.760 asked me? When I asked him the question? He then 1782 01:33:36.920 --> 01:33:38.840 answered my answer to his question. Do I have a 1783 01:33:38.920 --> 01:33:40.000 right not to refute his lies? 1784 01:33:41.159 --> 01:33:42.840 You can wait till we ask a question and then 1785 01:33:42.920 --> 01:33:43.560 refute the life. 1786 01:33:43.560 --> 01:33:45.800 Okay, I'm just saying because he didn't stay on topic. 1787 01:33:46.199 --> 01:33:47.119 He didn't answer my question. 1788 01:33:47.199 --> 01:33:49.359 You haven't stayed on topic whole debate. 1789 01:33:50.039 --> 01:33:51.960 Okay, So this this is what this what we'll do. 1790 01:33:52.479 --> 01:33:54.560 Let me go ahead and uh. Let we'll let you 1791 01:33:54.600 --> 01:33:56.560 Jazz ask the question because they did answer the question 1792 01:33:56.720 --> 01:33:58.640 just now and then and then you can go and 1793 01:33:58.720 --> 01:34:00.479 then that will probably it'll probably go to you to 1794 01:34:00.520 --> 01:34:01.960 answer and then you can go ahead and address what 1795 01:34:02.000 --> 01:34:02.119 you have. 1796 01:34:02.439 --> 01:34:03.680 Let me know if you want to say something to brother. 1797 01:34:03.720 --> 01:34:04.439 I don't want to have out. 1798 01:34:04.439 --> 01:34:08.039 Okay, So my question is to Jay dial when Sam Chumun, 1799 01:34:08.159 --> 01:34:10.119 let me just quote this so I don't get it wrong. 1800 01:34:10.720 --> 01:34:13.880 When Sam Shumun says, and he agrees with the statement, 1801 01:34:14.800 --> 01:34:19.319 the siniatical documents is full of errors and heretical statements, 1802 01:34:19.680 --> 01:34:23.640 struggles and hopefully someday in the near future should be 1803 01:34:23.840 --> 01:34:26.880 discarded to the trash. Can is the alignment with your 1804 01:34:26.920 --> 01:34:27.520 beliefs or not? 1805 01:34:29.000 --> 01:34:31.119 Well? Your article I said that, Jay, I just want 1806 01:34:31.119 --> 01:34:32.399 to ask him. Give me the link to the article 1807 01:34:32.479 --> 01:34:34.159 I said those exact words. Give me the It's on 1808 01:34:34.279 --> 01:34:34.640 my Twitter. 1809 01:34:34.760 --> 01:34:38.399 It's on my Twitter right now. What's on my twitter? 1810 01:34:38.479 --> 01:34:40.800 You can go to it on my Twitter you can 1811 01:34:40.840 --> 01:34:42.760 go to it, and I can actually quote from you 1812 01:34:43.119 --> 01:34:48.119 from chrisco that the New Testament comes in the second century, 1813 01:34:48.359 --> 01:34:50.439 not even the first to my twitter. 1814 01:34:50.840 --> 01:34:54.520 So the whole of this argument supposing that something has 1815 01:34:54.600 --> 01:34:56.880 to be immediately recorded at the time of the event, 1816 01:34:57.159 --> 01:35:01.279 and you're just using your own positions, uh standards to 1817 01:35:01.359 --> 01:35:03.840 judge our position. We don't believe that. We believe in 1818 01:35:04.000 --> 01:35:07.640 the ability of oral tradition to transmit just as well 1819 01:35:07.680 --> 01:35:10.600 as something written. So you have an artificial standard that 1820 01:35:10.680 --> 01:35:13.680 you expect of us that is not our standard. So 1821 01:35:13.880 --> 01:35:16.039 I don't believe. We don't worship a book. We're not 1822 01:35:16.119 --> 01:35:17.680 a book based religion like you are. 1823 01:35:18.279 --> 01:35:21.760 So that was my question, your question. 1824 01:35:24.319 --> 01:35:26.800 I read. Just to be clear, you didn't answer my question. 1825 01:35:27.239 --> 01:35:30.159 We don't follow on codesy, I don't have your suppositions, 1826 01:35:30.279 --> 01:35:34.840 so we're not Protestants at the. 1827 01:35:38.640 --> 01:35:41.640 Answer my questions questions. 1828 01:35:41.439 --> 01:35:42.680 That it's basically. 1829 01:35:44.319 --> 01:35:45.239 Do you agree. 1830 01:35:47.439 --> 01:35:51.159 It doesn't matter, trust, it won't matter which text. 1831 01:35:51.399 --> 01:35:54.920 A million of trash, As you said, it doesn't, it 1832 01:35:54.960 --> 01:35:56.920 doesn't match. It belongs in the trash. 1833 01:35:57.760 --> 01:35:59.840 That's bess. 1834 01:36:00.399 --> 01:36:02.319 The codex sign I, I guess, is not what the 1835 01:36:02.359 --> 01:36:04.760 tradition hinges on that's what your argument hinges on. 1836 01:36:05.199 --> 01:36:08.560 It's the earliest complete does matter, it doesn't. 1837 01:36:09.960 --> 01:36:15.039 Here, I'll say that's okay. So I'm gonna let Sam 1838 01:36:15.119 --> 01:36:17.920 go ahead and come in. Because there were some allegations 1839 01:36:17.960 --> 01:36:20.760 made about something he said or whatever. Maybe and he 1840 01:36:20.840 --> 01:36:22.520 did answer your question. He says, I know that you don't. 1841 01:36:22.560 --> 01:36:25.680 You don't like to answer, but he did answer it. 1842 01:36:26.159 --> 01:36:28.479 No, I asked if he agreed, but snup, I answer it. 1843 01:36:28.840 --> 01:36:31.680 And now we'll go ahead and go what Sam said 1844 01:36:31.720 --> 01:36:32.439 on those comments. 1845 01:36:32.600 --> 01:36:35.640 Notice notice neither of them answered my specific question. He 1846 01:36:35.680 --> 01:36:40.199 says that Jazz rattle off some manuscripts, Tobak tesch Can 1847 01:36:40.279 --> 01:36:42.279 whatever it is. That wasn't my question. Let me try 1848 01:36:42.279 --> 01:36:45.760 it again. But you can't answer guys. Remember, they failed miserably. 1849 01:36:46.159 --> 01:36:50.960 I said, point to the earliest Mussaf codex that has 1850 01:36:51.119 --> 01:36:55.159 all one hundred fourteen surahs of the Koran with all 1851 01:36:55.199 --> 01:36:58.560 the verses that they accept today, and they're in nineteen 1852 01:36:58.600 --> 01:37:01.600 twenty four Cairo edition. They couldn't do that. Then I asked, 1853 01:37:01.920 --> 01:37:07.000 show me any two chronic manuscripts that are identical one 1854 01:37:07.079 --> 01:37:09.920 hundred percent. You didn't answer the question, Daniel, neither did 1855 01:37:10.000 --> 01:37:13.000 your friend. And again, if Western scholars are right. Your 1856 01:37:13.079 --> 01:37:16.279 prophet is a fraud and you're wrong. There are many 1857 01:37:16.359 --> 01:37:18.960 Western scholars. You may not like them because they're conservative. 1858 01:37:19.479 --> 01:37:22.199 They do believe that Moses wrote the Torah, and they 1859 01:37:22.279 --> 01:37:25.000 believe there's enough evidence for it, not only because Jesus 1860 01:37:25.079 --> 01:37:27.800 confirmed it, but if Western scholars are right, I don't 1861 01:37:27.840 --> 01:37:29.760 know what you guys don't get. You just proved Muhammed 1862 01:37:29.840 --> 01:37:32.720 is a false prophet antichrist because he doesn't agree with 1863 01:37:32.840 --> 01:37:34.840 Western scholars. He agrees with me, and here I am 1864 01:37:34.880 --> 01:37:37.239 defending your false prophet glory to Jesus. 1865 01:37:37.840 --> 01:37:40.039 Okay, did you have something else that you wanted to 1866 01:37:40.159 --> 01:37:41.399 and then we'll finish off with that. I just want 1867 01:37:41.399 --> 01:37:43.880 to make sure everybody got their question off that they 1868 01:37:43.920 --> 01:37:44.600 wanted to get off. 1869 01:37:46.319 --> 01:37:50.239 Yeah, he gave us a question about the prophet upon 1870 01:37:50.359 --> 01:37:55.079 him confirming the Torah, and we didn't address that question. 1871 01:37:55.239 --> 01:37:56.880 So I can address it right now during the. 1872 01:37:57.279 --> 01:37:59.119 Four minutes you never addressed. You want ads it out, 1873 01:37:59.159 --> 01:38:00.239 then I need a response. 1874 01:38:03.000 --> 01:38:04.920 On the Q and a session. Okay, so let me 1875 01:38:05.079 --> 01:38:08.359 let me respond to one and then we'll go to 1876 01:38:08.479 --> 01:38:10.640 Bible versus crowd for the last topic. 1877 01:38:11.439 --> 01:38:15.079 Okay, that's fine. First of all, the Quran says that 1878 01:38:15.600 --> 01:38:19.920 the Torah and the Engeal, the scripture of the past 1879 01:38:20.000 --> 01:38:23.159 has been distorted. They change it with their hands. This 1880 01:38:23.359 --> 01:38:26.479 is something that we read in the Quran. So that's 1881 01:38:26.560 --> 01:38:31.960 point number one. Point number two is that he doesn't 1882 01:38:32.039 --> 01:38:36.479 understand the difference between i'm versus hass In Arabic means 1883 01:38:36.680 --> 01:38:41.399 general general statement versus hass a specific statement. So if 1884 01:38:41.479 --> 01:38:43.680 I point to a book and I say this is 1885 01:38:43.760 --> 01:38:48.319 a reliable book or this book confirms what I'm saying, 1886 01:38:48.800 --> 01:38:51.800 I don't necessarily mean that there every single line of 1887 01:38:51.880 --> 01:38:54.399 that book I agree with, or every single line of 1888 01:38:54.479 --> 01:38:57.439 that book is true. I'm making that making an i'm 1889 01:38:57.640 --> 01:39:01.279 statement a general statement that the book is true. Sam 1890 01:39:01.399 --> 01:39:05.359 can only have an uncharitable reading or an uncharitable interpretation 1891 01:39:05.640 --> 01:39:08.520 of the prophet's words in that hadith. If we assume 1892 01:39:08.600 --> 01:39:11.279 that that hadith is authentic. So there is a difference 1893 01:39:11.319 --> 01:39:13.640 of opinion on the authenticity of that hadith and he 1894 01:39:13.760 --> 01:39:16.479 knows it second of all, or the third point, actually, 1895 01:39:16.920 --> 01:39:20.000 what Torah is the prophet or telrat is the prophet 1896 01:39:20.079 --> 01:39:22.920 sola la jaya Sam referring to is he referring to 1897 01:39:23.119 --> 01:39:26.199 the Mazaretic text is he referring to the Dead Sea scrolls? 1898 01:39:26.399 --> 01:39:29.520 Is he referring to the Subtuagen? Like which version of 1899 01:39:29.600 --> 01:39:32.000 the Old Testament is he referring to? And why do 1900 01:39:32.079 --> 01:39:35.159 you incorrectly assume that the Old Testament that you have, 1901 01:39:35.399 --> 01:39:38.720 your particular sect or denomination has is the same thing 1902 01:39:38.800 --> 01:39:41.159 that the profit piece be upon Him is referring to. 1903 01:39:41.359 --> 01:39:43.600 Like this is a very flawed logic that you have 1904 01:39:44.119 --> 01:39:46.359 sam to take this Hadith and think that the profit 1905 01:39:46.399 --> 01:39:49.479 piece be upon him is confirming the book that you 1906 01:39:49.640 --> 01:39:51.800 have in your hand today. By the way, there are 1907 01:39:51.880 --> 01:39:54.880 all these different variations. And the fourth point is that 1908 01:39:55.000 --> 01:39:59.720 if Muslims believed that the Bible was uncorrupted because of this, 1909 01:40:00.640 --> 01:40:02.880 why didn't they canonize the Bible? And the way that 1910 01:40:02.960 --> 01:40:07.439 the Christians canonized the Old Testament. Christians canonize the Old Testament. 1911 01:40:07.640 --> 01:40:10.319 Muslims never did that because they never saw the Bible 1912 01:40:10.600 --> 01:40:13.399 as fully reliable. They never saw the Old Testament as 1913 01:40:13.439 --> 01:40:17.039 fully reliable. And the actual academic evidence shows that the 1914 01:40:17.079 --> 01:40:19.840 Bible is not reliable because there's all these different variations 1915 01:40:19.880 --> 01:40:21.960 and they change, like the differences between the Dead Sea 1916 01:40:22.000 --> 01:40:24.880 Scroll and the Mastertitexts and the super Septuogen These are 1917 01:40:25.039 --> 01:40:29.159 major theological differences because of changes and wording in the 1918 01:40:29.319 --> 01:40:31.760 original manuscripts. Why don't you deal with that? 1919 01:40:32.960 --> 01:40:33.079 Now? 1920 01:40:33.079 --> 01:40:34.760 I have the same time to respond to his wives 1921 01:40:34.800 --> 01:40:35.159 and bluster. 1922 01:40:35.720 --> 01:40:37.880 Okay, and then I'll have your. 1923 01:40:39.399 --> 01:40:41.119 Go to let me Let me go, because I want 1924 01:40:41.159 --> 01:40:45.600 to destory that, all right. Number one, Chapter two versus 1925 01:40:45.600 --> 01:40:47.720 seventy seventy nine shows again what you've been doing with 1926 01:40:47.760 --> 01:40:49.560 the Bible. You're doing to your own korng and you 1927 01:40:49.640 --> 01:40:52.079 fall under the condemnation of three seventy eight. You not 1928 01:40:52.239 --> 01:40:56.119 only have the audacity twist the scriptures, you have theudacity 1929 01:40:56.159 --> 01:40:59.760 twist the kron anyone I'm challenging here, Let's do it 1930 01:41:00.319 --> 01:41:03.279 on two seventy five cent and your proof text, Mano Imano, 1931 01:41:03.359 --> 01:41:06.920 Let's debate it. Go read the context. I've done an 1932 01:41:06.960 --> 01:41:10.920 extensive study and the Muslim commentators. It's talking about a 1933 01:41:11.079 --> 01:41:13.960 particular group identified as Jews, who wrote the book with 1934 01:41:14.039 --> 01:41:18.199 their own hands. It doesn't say all Jews everywhere, let 1935 01:41:18.239 --> 01:41:21.920 alone mentioned the Christians. You just butchered the Qoran like 1936 01:41:22.000 --> 01:41:23.920 you've been butchering the Bible. But I come back to 1937 01:41:24.000 --> 01:41:27.119 butcher you. That's number one. Number two. You said that 1938 01:41:27.279 --> 01:41:30.119 the hadith where Mohammed confirmed the Torah that there are 1939 01:41:30.199 --> 01:41:33.079 differences of opinion. Well, you probably didn't hear my recent 1940 01:41:33.479 --> 01:41:38.039 responses to your friend Jake ibin KM L Josiah, which 1941 01:41:38.119 --> 01:41:39.880 I have quoted. And if you want to read Arabic 1942 01:41:39.920 --> 01:41:42.119 because you think your votes about reading Arabic, I'll let 1943 01:41:42.159 --> 01:41:46.000 you read Arabic and parse it. Ib and L Josiah said, 1944 01:41:46.199 --> 01:41:50.640 a group of scholars believe the Torah is uncorrupt. One 1945 01:41:50.680 --> 01:41:53.640 of the evidences they gave is the headith of Abu 1946 01:41:53.760 --> 01:41:57.319 Dao Wud. They quoted it, they didn't question its authenticity, 1947 01:41:57.439 --> 01:42:00.760 and even El Albani said it's Hassan. But put Albani 1948 01:42:00.800 --> 01:42:03.159 asai I K. L. Josiah for those of you who 1949 01:42:03.159 --> 01:42:06.680 don't know. He's the disciple of Schekhalistam ibn Tamia, his 1950 01:42:06.840 --> 01:42:10.479 granddaddy when it comes to celifie anthropomorphism, and he says 1951 01:42:10.600 --> 01:42:13.359 these scholars quoted this said, I guess they didn't know 1952 01:42:13.439 --> 01:42:16.560 about the science of Adeid classification. Thank God, I'll have 1953 01:42:16.640 --> 01:42:19.239 sent you to correct them, because they said that when 1954 01:42:19.319 --> 01:42:22.600 Muhammad saw virek Tora, he put it on the cushion. 1955 01:42:22.640 --> 01:42:24.680 He goes. I believe in you and him who revealed you. 1956 01:42:25.119 --> 01:42:27.159 And then the scholars say he would not have said 1957 01:42:27.199 --> 01:42:30.159 it if he thought that Toro was corrupted. And among 1958 01:42:30.319 --> 01:42:33.720 the people that I El Josiah lists as saying that 1959 01:42:33.840 --> 01:42:38.960 tour and the Gospel are incruptible are El Buchhari and Razi, 1960 01:42:39.039 --> 01:42:42.119 which you probably don't care much about. Razzi, but Imam 1961 01:42:42.239 --> 01:42:45.880 El Bukhari, the one who collected third almost said some technicians. 1962 01:42:45.880 --> 01:42:48.159 According to you, dadis no, my time's on. 1963 01:42:48.439 --> 01:42:50.600 No, No, you got twenty vis on guess okay. 1964 01:42:50.720 --> 01:42:53.880 The final thing is if variant readings in validate the Bible, 1965 01:42:54.000 --> 01:42:56.600 it buries your Quran because you have thousands of variant readings. 1966 01:42:56.640 --> 01:42:59.760 But then you explained kat but who authorized the karate? 1967 01:43:00.159 --> 01:43:02.600 Show me one verse from your law that said that 1968 01:43:02.720 --> 01:43:05.640 Mujahad would come and stand verse seven readings of the Koran. 1969 01:43:05.960 --> 01:43:07.960 You make it up as you go along. The gig 1970 01:43:08.119 --> 01:43:09.520 is up, game over for your religion. 1971 01:43:09.800 --> 01:43:12.399 How could I answer, my son? Could I could I 1972 01:43:12.560 --> 01:43:18.319 answer this? We don't have to make up anything because 1973 01:43:18.399 --> 01:43:21.039 we actually have the genealogical trees of the manuscripts of 1974 01:43:21.119 --> 01:43:24.840 the Quran, the stammer of the Koran, and there's so exhaustive. 1975 01:43:25.079 --> 01:43:28.199 There is not a single textual critic of the Koran 1976 01:43:28.520 --> 01:43:31.479 that would say that we can't identify the Koran. There 1977 01:43:31.600 --> 01:43:34.880 was at the time of Muhammed that they would say 1978 01:43:34.920 --> 01:43:36.760 that we don't know what it is. This is in 1979 01:43:37.359 --> 01:43:40.319 contradiction to what you said just now that they don't 1980 01:43:40.439 --> 01:43:42.319 know what it is. And secondly, when it comes to 1981 01:43:42.399 --> 01:43:45.359 the tour with the perfect piece perpon him, never authenticated 1982 01:43:45.720 --> 01:43:49.159 your torah. You never authenticated the tour that you believe 1983 01:43:49.199 --> 01:43:52.119 in today, there's no one, there's multiple The perfect piece 1984 01:43:52.159 --> 01:43:55.520 of him authenticated a judgment from that tour, which is 1985 01:43:55.560 --> 01:43:58.720 a word Jim, so read the hedits in context. And lastly, 1986 01:43:58.960 --> 01:44:02.760 there is no disagreement upon this with about the scholars 1987 01:44:03.159 --> 01:44:06.239 on the tradition of the Koran, what it includes one 1988 01:44:06.319 --> 01:44:09.920 hundred and fourteen sewers, no distinction, nothing. This is a 1989 01:44:10.079 --> 01:44:13.239 difference to you and your scholars who leave books, who 1990 01:44:13.359 --> 01:44:17.399 leave chapters, who leave the wizard Jesus out and change them. 1991 01:44:17.760 --> 01:44:19.560 They're not the same. So why do you try to 1992 01:44:19.640 --> 01:44:23.159 focus on a false Islamic dilemma of virtual false dilemma? 1993 01:44:23.399 --> 01:44:26.159 You don't answer the question of how the Bible could 1994 01:44:26.159 --> 01:44:29.199 be authentic, unreliable. And I'm shocked that as a Christian 1995 01:44:29.439 --> 01:44:32.119 you allowed Ja to say that it's fine, it's okay 1996 01:44:32.399 --> 01:44:35.399 if Correctinaticus's me thrown into the trash. I mean, as 1997 01:44:35.439 --> 01:44:37.359 I musdam, I have no respect for the Bible than 1998 01:44:37.479 --> 01:44:40.439 Jay and some to put together. But it's ridiculous that 1999 01:44:40.560 --> 01:44:43.720 he allowed that statement to go unchallenged. Jay, why would 2000 01:44:43.760 --> 01:44:45.840 you do that through the Bible, not under the bus, 2001 01:44:46.079 --> 01:44:47.680 but in the trash. I'm shocked at that. 2002 01:44:48.039 --> 01:44:50.439 Well, you're just too silly to think that the Bible 2003 01:44:50.520 --> 01:44:53.279 is reducible to one textual tradition. That's your whole argument. 2004 01:44:53.800 --> 01:44:56.800 I didn't I didn't say that what you just said, 2005 01:44:57.079 --> 01:44:59.479 I asked one claims. So by the way, I don't 2006 01:44:59.479 --> 01:45:00.880 want to I want I've got other things i want 2007 01:45:00.880 --> 01:45:02.760 to talk about. So we've got multiple scholars. By the 2008 01:45:02.800 --> 01:45:06.560 way that both of you said to him, I'm replying 2009 01:45:06.600 --> 01:45:09.720 to him. You said that there are no modern scholars 2010 01:45:09.800 --> 01:45:12.479 that believe in the veracity of the text the whole 2011 01:45:12.640 --> 01:45:15.159 New Testament. I've got three here for you, lightheart, F 2012 01:45:15.279 --> 01:45:16.920 F Young. 2013 01:45:17.640 --> 01:45:20.439 What's the texting well known? What's the text? 2014 01:45:20.960 --> 01:45:22.119 Which text? Which text? 2015 01:45:22.680 --> 01:45:27.279 There cons variants, which variant of them, which variant of 2016 01:45:28.279 --> 01:45:28.640 we don't. 2017 01:45:28.720 --> 01:45:29.399 It doesn't matter. 2018 01:45:29.560 --> 01:45:31.479 You don't even know argument. You don't even know the 2019 01:45:31.920 --> 01:45:36.680 your argument, don't open the book and the book argument 2020 01:45:36.760 --> 01:45:41.159 is tradition, and that's not our position, your. 2021 01:45:42.840 --> 01:45:47.680 From We're going to move down. 2022 01:45:50.520 --> 01:45:51.119 In our position. 2023 01:45:51.800 --> 01:45:59.000 Textual edition, guys, texturexedition. You can't because they're doing. 2024 01:45:58.920 --> 01:46:01.079 Because they don't follows going to top three. 2025 01:46:01.159 --> 01:46:02.239 You understand I could tell. 2026 01:46:02.079 --> 01:46:05.279 You, guys, Guys, guys, guys, guys. 2027 01:46:08.960 --> 01:46:11.399 Orthodox. Let me give an example, the Orthodox study Bible. 2028 01:46:11.600 --> 01:46:15.239 Guys, guys, guys. All right, I'm meeting everybody, Okay. I 2029 01:46:15.359 --> 01:46:16.920 knew that this was going to go crazy. Anytime we 2030 01:46:17.000 --> 01:46:18.520 open up the dialogue, it's going to go crazy. I 2031 01:46:18.560 --> 01:46:19.920 understand you guys are not going to agree on this 2032 01:46:20.000 --> 01:46:24.359 with with the text in the scripture. But yeah, yeah, 2033 01:46:24.399 --> 01:46:27.479 but here's the thing. He's getting frustrated because he's he 2034 01:46:27.720 --> 01:46:30.079 answered your question and you know, you made some personal 2035 01:46:30.079 --> 01:46:31.760 attacks about throwing things in the trash or whatever. So 2036 01:46:31.760 --> 01:46:32.439 obviously he's going to. 2037 01:46:32.439 --> 01:46:41.000 Respond position, what's Sam's view of cup. 2038 01:46:40.960 --> 01:46:44.239 Let's just move on to the third topic, guys. All right, 2039 01:46:44.359 --> 01:46:46.319 So the third topic here, guys, is going to be 2040 01:46:48.079 --> 01:46:50.920 morality bibble versus Kuran on human rights which you guys 2041 01:46:50.960 --> 01:46:52.680 can go ahead and talk about this a bit, because 2042 01:46:52.680 --> 01:46:56.439 I see that there's some personal differences. Who wants to 2043 01:46:56.439 --> 01:46:58.199 take this one first team Christianity or a team? 2044 01:46:58.319 --> 01:47:01.520 Is they can go first? 2045 01:47:02.479 --> 01:47:04.920 TEAMSM wants to go to the first on this one. Okay, no, no, no, 2046 01:47:05.039 --> 01:47:07.560 they can go oh cheep Christianity. You guys, Okay, we'll 2047 01:47:07.560 --> 01:47:09.159 go first. Jay. 2048 01:47:11.199 --> 01:47:15.439 Yeah, I would say that if we think about this idea, 2049 01:47:15.600 --> 01:47:18.039 the transition from the previous topic to the next topic. 2050 01:47:18.399 --> 01:47:21.560 I quick, sorry, sorry, real quick, Jay, We're going to 2051 01:47:21.600 --> 01:47:23.000 put four minutes on o'clock so that you can go, 2052 01:47:23.079 --> 01:47:26.359 so that we don't uh and five minutes. 2053 01:47:26.600 --> 01:47:28.399 He gets five minutes, right, not four. 2054 01:47:29.119 --> 01:47:31.520 No, it's it's four because now we're on the new topic. Three. 2055 01:47:31.880 --> 01:47:32.479 It's per round. 2056 01:47:32.560 --> 01:47:35.119 Yeah. So the opening statement, Yeah, the openings are five, 2057 01:47:35.199 --> 01:47:35.560 aren't they. 2058 01:47:35.760 --> 01:47:37.560 No, it's opening statement from the very beginning, and then 2059 01:47:37.600 --> 01:47:39.600 once we get into the debate rounds is four. If 2060 01:47:39.600 --> 01:47:41.000 you guys want, if this is the topic that you 2061 01:47:41.039 --> 01:47:42.520 guys want to expand on more, we can go ahead 2062 01:47:42.560 --> 01:47:43.840 and give you guys five minutes, but we do it 2063 01:47:43.920 --> 01:47:46.079 four minutes for all the rounds. But if you guys 2064 01:47:46.119 --> 01:47:47.680 want five minutes for this particular topic. 2065 01:47:47.760 --> 01:47:51.600 That's fine, that's fine, whatever, just five minutes. We need 2066 01:47:51.680 --> 01:47:53.119 five minutes for our opening. 2067 01:47:53.199 --> 01:47:55.079 That's fine. Well, you know what for this whole route, 2068 01:47:55.119 --> 01:47:56.560 for this this is the last one to go five 2069 01:47:56.600 --> 01:48:01.720 minutes for each round three times, no problem. So Jag 2070 01:48:01.760 --> 01:48:04.399 got five minison o'clock for you. Whenever you're ready, will 2071 01:48:04.399 --> 01:48:04.800 turn the calo. 2072 01:48:04.960 --> 01:48:06.199 I'll go one or two, and then I'll pass it 2073 01:48:06.239 --> 01:48:08.600 over to Sam because I don't know what his arguments 2074 01:48:08.600 --> 01:48:10.439 are going to be, but I would say that, you know, 2075 01:48:10.520 --> 01:48:14.159 if we think about this previous topic, it relates to 2076 01:48:14.279 --> 01:48:16.600 the new topic, which is that there needs to be 2077 01:48:16.680 --> 01:48:20.399 a consistency of continuity between what was expected and what 2078 01:48:20.760 --> 01:48:23.640 was later revealed or given. Now, in the Old Testament 2079 01:48:23.720 --> 01:48:26.800 we have a pretty consistent pattern, not of wrath or 2080 01:48:26.880 --> 01:48:30.359 of anything extreme, but rather Jesus confirms in many places 2081 01:48:30.479 --> 01:48:33.960 the morality of the Old Testament. For example, in Matthew five, 2082 01:48:34.039 --> 01:48:37.479 people think that the beatitudes are contrary to the law. 2083 01:48:37.520 --> 01:48:39.720 In fact, Leviticus says that you have to love your neighbor. 2084 01:48:40.119 --> 01:48:43.000 Jesus says that you can't exact personal revenge, and that 2085 01:48:43.159 --> 01:48:45.560 was actually part of the Old Testament law. So for us, 2086 01:48:45.960 --> 01:48:49.439 Christ's exposition of the Old Testament is a consistent, true 2087 01:48:49.560 --> 01:48:53.600 exposition of what the Torah always meant. Jesus isn't contradicting it. 2088 01:48:53.680 --> 01:48:55.880 In fact, he gave it. He's the one that fulfills it. 2089 01:48:56.600 --> 01:48:58.600 When we get to the time of this law, we 2090 01:48:58.720 --> 01:49:02.039 have a totally different expectation. For example, many of these 2091 01:49:02.159 --> 01:49:06.680 ceremonial ideas that are borrowed from Judaism and Christianity actually 2092 01:49:06.760 --> 01:49:09.920 have no meaning and no significance. They're not clear as 2093 01:49:10.000 --> 01:49:12.199 to why we do them. It's just what Allah wills. Well, 2094 01:49:12.239 --> 01:49:16.159 in Christianity, there's a specific meaning for things like an alter, 2095 01:49:16.520 --> 01:49:19.720 things like cleansing, baptisms that are washings. And when I 2096 01:49:19.800 --> 01:49:22.520 debated Daniel, we talked about this issue of continuity, how 2097 01:49:22.600 --> 01:49:26.840 God always had an alter, a temple, a priesthood. Islam 2098 01:49:26.920 --> 01:49:28.960 has none of that. So there's no continuity there in 2099 01:49:29.079 --> 01:49:32.399 terms of morality or in terms of the theology. Islam 2100 01:49:32.520 --> 01:49:36.159 has a totally different set of standards that are completely arbitrary. 2101 01:49:36.199 --> 01:49:38.239 Sam will pass it over to you, all. 2102 01:49:38.199 --> 01:49:41.279 Right, yes, now, remember why I had asked to do 2103 01:49:41.560 --> 01:49:44.880 the previous debate before this one, Guys, Remember they failed 2104 01:49:44.920 --> 01:49:47.880 miserably to show that their profit did not confirm the scriptures. 2105 01:49:48.000 --> 01:49:50.279 Any attack on the scriptures. Again, prus e. Muhammad is 2106 01:49:50.319 --> 01:49:53.000 a false prophet Antichrist. He is, but for other reasons. 2107 01:49:53.479 --> 01:49:56.960 And Mohammad confirmed all the scriptures in circulation. He didn't 2108 01:49:57.000 --> 01:50:01.279 make any difference between the variation or diversions to him. 2109 01:50:01.439 --> 01:50:04.520 They're all God's work. Now, with that said, that means 2110 01:50:04.600 --> 01:50:09.119 Mohammad's morality must live up to the biblical morality. Otherwise 2111 01:50:09.680 --> 01:50:12.520 he is a false prophet. And so when we look 2112 01:50:12.600 --> 01:50:15.479 at even the Torah, even though Jesus is the consummation, 2113 01:50:15.560 --> 01:50:18.399 and we are told clearly in the Old Testament and 2114 01:50:18.680 --> 01:50:21.920 in the teachings of Christ, that God in his love 2115 01:50:22.319 --> 01:50:25.279 condescended to the Israelites and allow things. 2116 01:50:25.159 --> 01:50:25.800 He did not like. 2117 01:50:25.920 --> 01:50:28.000 For example, if you go to First Samuel, chapter eight, 2118 01:50:28.359 --> 01:50:30.920 if you go to First Chronicles, chapter twenty two, verse eight, 2119 01:50:31.199 --> 01:50:33.840 First Chronicles twenty eight, verse three, and on and Onigos, 2120 01:50:33.880 --> 01:50:36.720 and then the words of our Lord Matthew nineteen, the 2121 01:50:36.840 --> 01:50:40.720 Lord allowed and tolerate things that he himself was not 2122 01:50:40.880 --> 01:50:44.399 pleased with until Jesus came and perfected the revelation and 2123 01:50:44.439 --> 01:50:47.399 took us to our standard. Muhammad devolves and his ethics 2124 01:50:47.439 --> 01:50:49.560 are even worse than that found in the Old Testament, 2125 01:50:49.600 --> 01:50:52.279 and I can give you several examples. In twenty Deuteronomy 2126 01:50:52.279 --> 01:50:54.760 twenty four, verse one of four, the true God of 2127 01:50:54.840 --> 01:50:57.399 Moses says that if I divorce a woman she marries 2128 01:50:57.800 --> 01:51:01.239 and either or he dies, I can't take her back. 2129 01:51:01.279 --> 01:51:04.640 It's an abomination. What God says is an abomination. Mohammed 2130 01:51:04.680 --> 01:51:07.359 Zelah says is moheeded the only way you can take 2131 01:51:07.399 --> 01:51:10.359 your spouse back. In chapter two, verses two twenty nine 2132 01:51:10.399 --> 01:51:14.399 to two thirty of the Koran, if Daniel makes the 2133 01:51:14.439 --> 01:51:18.079 mistake of irrevocably divorcing his wife, she has to marry 2134 01:51:18.159 --> 01:51:20.279 someone else. He has to have sex with her, and 2135 01:51:20.359 --> 01:51:22.239 then if he divorces her he can take her back, 2136 01:51:22.680 --> 01:51:25.720 adding insult injury. So the God of Moses says, Muhammed's 2137 01:51:25.720 --> 01:51:29.439 God stands condemned. Another aspect Douranmi twenty one ten to fourteen, 2138 01:51:29.560 --> 01:51:31.279 unlike what we find in the chron and the Sunna, 2139 01:51:31.760 --> 01:51:35.000 where Daniel's God says, if you're out in jihad, you 2140 01:51:35.119 --> 01:51:38.079 can take women captive, even married one. You can then 2141 01:51:38.520 --> 01:51:41.960 molest them, even though they won't call it rape, because 2142 01:51:42.479 --> 01:51:45.840 by taking them captive you've numbliflied their marriage, have sex 2143 01:51:45.920 --> 01:51:47.960 with them, and sell them off to your property. Whereas 2144 01:51:48.000 --> 01:51:49.880 the God of Moses says in Douranami twenty one ten 2145 01:51:49.920 --> 01:51:52.560 to fourteen, if you find a captive woman, you make 2146 01:51:52.600 --> 01:51:54.800 her your wife. She's not married, You give her a 2147 01:51:54.840 --> 01:51:56.880 month to mourn, shave her head, and you give her 2148 01:51:56.920 --> 01:51:59.039 the full status of a wife and his light wife. 2149 01:51:59.159 --> 01:52:02.039 And if you divorce her, she's free. You don't sell her. 2150 01:52:02.479 --> 01:52:05.399 So even though the Old Testament it's the ideal standard, 2151 01:52:05.560 --> 01:52:08.000 even the Old Testament condemns the kron and the Sunnah 2152 01:52:08.319 --> 01:52:11.960 as being barbaric and Droeconian, beneath even the standard the 2153 01:52:12.000 --> 01:52:14.000 Old Testament, which does not live up to the standard 2154 01:52:14.039 --> 01:52:16.359 of Jesus Christ. And any attack in the Bible, they 2155 01:52:16.399 --> 01:52:18.239 again prove Muhammad as a fraud. And I hope you 2156 01:52:18.279 --> 01:52:20.920 attack the Bible because Muhammad is a fraud, but for 2157 01:52:21.000 --> 01:52:21.439 other reasons. 2158 01:52:21.520 --> 01:52:23.880 Gloryd to Christ forty five seconds. 2159 01:52:23.920 --> 01:52:26.720 So all right, well, yeah, so keep that in mind. 2160 01:52:27.520 --> 01:52:30.159 As Jay said, the Old Testament is fulfilled in Christ. 2161 01:52:30.680 --> 01:52:34.319 Jesus perfects the Old Testament. Mohammed perverts the Old Testament, 2162 01:52:34.640 --> 01:52:37.039 let alone the New Testament, so that he doesn't even 2163 01:52:37.079 --> 01:52:38.600 live up to the standard the Old Testament, which is 2164 01:52:38.640 --> 01:52:40.359 an ideal Jesus is a standard. 2165 01:52:40.479 --> 01:52:40.680 Third. 2166 01:52:40.680 --> 01:52:43.000 And when you can Muhammad to Jesus, he's many the 2167 01:52:43.039 --> 01:52:43.560 fear of Christ. 2168 01:52:43.760 --> 01:52:47.039 But you still got twenty five? Still good? Okay? 2169 01:52:47.439 --> 01:52:51.000 All right, So any attack am mourning you guys, keep 2170 01:52:51.039 --> 01:52:53.960 attacking the Old Testament make my day. Because your prophet 2171 01:52:54.039 --> 01:52:57.079 confirmed that Old Testament in his possession. Make my day. 2172 01:52:57.159 --> 01:52:59.239 And to answer the question, why didn't canonize it? Because 2173 01:52:59.239 --> 01:53:02.239 your Koran said the Tours for the Jews, the Gospels 2174 01:53:02.279 --> 01:53:04.800 for the Christians. The Koran is for you, but all 2175 01:53:04.880 --> 01:53:07.439 of you follow it because then it is guidance, a light, 2176 01:53:07.880 --> 01:53:09.960 very simple. Your chron refute you, Daniel, do a better 2177 01:53:10.000 --> 01:53:10.960 job studying your time. 2178 01:53:11.840 --> 01:53:14.880 All right, five minutes on o'clock. The topic again is 2179 01:53:15.039 --> 01:53:18.760 morality Quran versus the Bible on human rights. This is 2180 01:53:18.880 --> 01:53:22.000 round one of topic three. This is going to be 2181 01:53:22.159 --> 01:53:24.840 a team opening statement. We haven't done the opening yeah 2182 01:53:24.880 --> 01:53:26.840 of course, yeah, yeah, So five five minutes on o'clock. 2183 01:53:26.880 --> 01:53:31.479 Doory h sure, sir, yeah, yeah, five minutes for everybody 2184 01:53:31.520 --> 01:53:34.439 on each round of this is this is last one, okay. 2185 01:53:35.119 --> 01:53:38.680 Christian Christians often attack the morality of Islam. They say 2186 01:53:38.760 --> 01:53:42.520 Mohammed upon him taught war and taught misogyny, but Jesus 2187 01:53:42.880 --> 01:53:45.720 teaches love and peace. They say, Mohammed so I said 2188 01:53:45.760 --> 01:53:49.520 them promoted child marriage, whereas Jesus believes women should only 2189 01:53:49.600 --> 01:53:53.199 be married when they reach eighteen. But this Christian perspective 2190 01:53:53.279 --> 01:53:57.800 is contradicted by the Bible. The Bible promotes far more war, killing, 2191 01:53:57.960 --> 01:54:00.840 and misogyny than anything in the or honor the life 2192 01:54:00.880 --> 01:54:03.800 of the prophet Muhammad. Pist people. Let's go through a list. 2193 01:54:04.000 --> 01:54:06.960 The Bible says in Levidigus chapter twenty to execute a 2194 01:54:07.039 --> 01:54:10.840 woman who engages in adultery. Many Christians will say, oh, 2195 01:54:11.319 --> 01:54:15.159 this is the old Covenant, it's no longer applicable. Fine. 2196 01:54:15.359 --> 01:54:17.720 That may be true, but it doesn't change the fact 2197 01:54:17.760 --> 01:54:22.520 that God commanded executing adulterers at one point in history, 2198 01:54:22.840 --> 01:54:26.680 and God, according to the Trinity, is also Jesus. So 2199 01:54:26.960 --> 01:54:31.279 Jesus commanded the Israelites to kill adulterers. Does that sound 2200 01:54:31.399 --> 01:54:36.039 very peaceful? Later in Leviticus, Jesus says homosexuals should be executed. 2201 01:54:36.319 --> 01:54:38.640 If a father sleeps with his daughter in law, they 2202 01:54:38.680 --> 01:54:42.600 should both be executed. Here's a brief list of sins 2203 01:54:42.960 --> 01:54:46.680 that Jesus requires you to be executed for, according to 2204 01:54:46.760 --> 01:54:51.319 the Old Testament, engaging in idolatry, breaking the sabbath. So 2205 01:54:51.439 --> 01:54:54.600 an Israelite three If an Israelite three thousand years ago 2206 01:54:54.720 --> 01:54:58.159 accidentally did some work on Saturday to break the sabbath, 2207 01:54:58.479 --> 01:55:02.279 Jesus wanted that israel Light to be executed. A son 2208 01:55:02.399 --> 01:55:05.760 striking his parents deserve death, or even if he curses 2209 01:55:05.800 --> 01:55:09.399 his parents, Jesus say, kill him. A sorceress, Jesus say, 2210 01:55:09.520 --> 01:55:13.920 kill him. A blasphemer, Jesus says, kill him. A brother, son, daughter, wife, 2211 01:55:14.039 --> 01:55:16.800 or friend who entices you to worship other gods. That 2212 01:55:16.840 --> 01:55:20.800 says in Deuteronomy thirteen, Jesus says, stone them to death 2213 01:55:20.880 --> 01:55:23.760 and have no pity on them. So Jesus is pro 2214 01:55:24.079 --> 01:55:26.640 death penalty for a lot of things. To be fair, 2215 01:55:26.840 --> 01:55:31.159 Islam also has the death penalty for adultery, sorcery, and blasphemy. 2216 01:55:31.439 --> 01:55:34.640 But if we're judging who is more pro death penalty 2217 01:55:35.000 --> 01:55:39.640 Jesus or Muhammad, Jesus wins hands down. According to the Bible, 2218 01:55:40.079 --> 01:55:43.720 Jesus is also pro genocide. In Deuteronomy twenty, Jesus commands 2219 01:55:43.760 --> 01:55:46.800 Moses to attack the Canaanites and other peoples and quote 2220 01:55:46.920 --> 01:55:51.039 leave nothing alive that breathes. In Deuteronomy chapter two, Moses 2221 01:55:51.119 --> 01:55:54.880 requested safe passage for the wandering Hebrew people from Sihon, 2222 01:55:55.000 --> 01:55:58.560 king of Heshman, but the king refused. Jesus then commands 2223 01:55:58.600 --> 01:56:02.600 his followers to conquer and possess Sihan's lands. As Moses says, 2224 01:56:02.720 --> 01:56:06.439 quote the Lord our God, meaning Jesus, delivered him before us, 2225 01:56:06.520 --> 01:56:08.960 and we smote him and his sons and all his people. 2226 01:56:09.000 --> 01:56:11.000 And we took all his cities at that time, and 2227 01:56:11.199 --> 01:56:13.760 utterly destroyed the men and the women and the little 2228 01:56:13.800 --> 01:56:17.439 ones of every city. We left none to remain. Now, 2229 01:56:17.520 --> 01:56:19.920 to be fair, Muhammed peace be upon him also commands 2230 01:56:20.000 --> 01:56:23.000 war in some contexts, but the difference is Muhammed peace 2231 01:56:23.039 --> 01:56:26.560 behind him doesn't command Muslims to kill women, children, and babies. 2232 01:56:26.960 --> 01:56:29.439 He says the opposite. He says, to spare women and children. 2233 01:56:29.479 --> 01:56:32.560 But Jesus, according to the Bible, is not so merciful. 2234 01:56:32.920 --> 01:56:35.119 Then we go to slavery. The Old and New Testament 2235 01:56:35.199 --> 01:56:39.399 both endoored slavery, including taking girls as slaves for potential brides. 2236 01:56:40.079 --> 01:56:43.560 Numbers thirty one says. In Chapter thirty one says, Moses 2237 01:56:43.600 --> 01:56:45.600 said to them, have you let all the women live. 2238 01:56:46.039 --> 01:56:49.000 Now kill every male among the little ones, and kill 2239 01:56:49.039 --> 01:56:51.520 every woman who has known man by lying with him. 2240 01:56:51.800 --> 01:56:54.119 But all the young girls who have not known man 2241 01:56:54.239 --> 01:56:57.880 by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. End quote Again. 2242 01:56:58.199 --> 01:57:02.359 Islam also endorses his slaves and concubinage, but the difference 2243 01:57:02.479 --> 01:57:04.840 is that in the Bible, Jesus says you can sell 2244 01:57:05.039 --> 01:57:09.199 your own daughter into slavery. Exodus, chapter twenty one, verse seven, 2245 01:57:09.319 --> 01:57:12.199 Jesus says when a man sells his daughter as a slave, 2246 01:57:12.359 --> 01:57:14.760 she will not be freed at the end of six years, 2247 01:57:14.880 --> 01:57:19.439 as the men are. Unlike Jesus, Islam doesn't allow parents 2248 01:57:19.479 --> 01:57:22.920 to sell their little girls into slavery. Finally, on the 2249 01:57:22.960 --> 01:57:25.880 topic of age of marriage, nowhere in the Bible does 2250 01:57:26.000 --> 01:57:29.720 Jesus specify a minimum age for marriage. Jesus had no 2251 01:57:29.960 --> 01:57:32.760 problem with child marriage, and if he did, he never 2252 01:57:32.840 --> 01:57:35.479 told anyone, even though as a common practice in his 2253 01:57:35.600 --> 01:57:39.720 time in the Old Testament times. Furthermore, many church authorities 2254 01:57:39.960 --> 01:57:43.760 endorse child marriage. For example, Saint Augustine himself was set 2255 01:57:43.840 --> 01:57:46.159 to marry a ten year old when he was thirty 2256 01:57:46.199 --> 01:57:49.439 one before he became a priest. Thomas Aquinas says that 2257 01:57:49.640 --> 01:57:53.000 sex depends on maturity, which he says happens at twelve 2258 01:57:53.079 --> 01:57:55.319 years old for girls, and he says it can even 2259 01:57:55.359 --> 01:57:59.600 happen earlier for some girls. The Catholic Encyclopedia also notes 2260 01:57:59.640 --> 01:58:02.960 that Man was betrothed to Joseph when she was just 2261 01:58:03.119 --> 01:58:05.479 a twelve year old little girl, and in the Canon 2262 01:58:05.560 --> 01:58:09.119 law and Catholicism this minimum age of marriage verse twelve. 2263 01:58:09.359 --> 01:58:11.680 I want the Christian audience to know that the Bible 2264 01:58:11.760 --> 01:58:15.239 and the Catholic Church have fully endorsed Marian girls as 2265 01:58:15.279 --> 01:58:17.560 young as twelve or even younger. So if you want 2266 01:58:17.640 --> 01:58:20.039 to attack Islam and the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon 2267 01:58:20.079 --> 01:58:22.960 him and say that they endorse pedophilia, well so does 2268 01:58:23.000 --> 01:58:25.560 your Bible, and so does the Church, and so does Jesus. 2269 01:58:26.039 --> 01:58:28.520 Note that I'm not condemning the Bible or the Church 2270 01:58:28.600 --> 01:58:30.960 for this reason. So this is not a two quote 2271 01:58:31.000 --> 01:58:33.319 quay fallacy, as Jay is sure to say. But I'm 2272 01:58:33.399 --> 01:58:37.000 just pointing out the lack of consistency among many questions. 2273 01:58:37.079 --> 01:58:40.000 Thank you, all right, Okay, So what I'll do real 2274 01:58:40.279 --> 01:58:42.039 I want to a brief responsor. 2275 01:58:44.000 --> 01:58:45.680 Know that, Yeah, that's that's the rest of the time. 2276 01:58:46.560 --> 01:58:50.000 What I'll do is Okay, So Bill's can we have 2277 01:58:50.079 --> 01:58:51.920 the chats ready? I'm gonna let them go another round. 2278 01:58:51.920 --> 01:58:53.520 Then I'll read the chats after this, because obviously I 2279 01:58:53.600 --> 01:58:56.119 know that they want to really respond to this. Yeah, 2280 01:58:56.199 --> 01:58:57.800 pull the chats up on the side and we'll have it. 2281 01:58:57.880 --> 01:58:59.720 So don't worry. I was going to read the chats, 2282 01:58:59.760 --> 01:59:01.680 but I know that you guys really want to respond. 2283 01:59:01.960 --> 01:59:03.600 So I'm going to have a Jay. You wanted to 2284 01:59:03.640 --> 01:59:08.279 go first, right, Okay, you're going to put five minutes 2285 01:59:08.319 --> 01:59:10.880 on a clock. I'll reach out after they finished both 2286 01:59:10.960 --> 01:59:14.520 rounds of this word round two of the Bible versus 2287 01:59:14.520 --> 01:59:16.359 the Kuran, five minutes on a clock, Go ahead, Jay, 2288 01:59:16.359 --> 01:59:16.800 take it away. 2289 01:59:17.479 --> 01:59:19.000 Yeah. So the first thing I would say that you'll 2290 01:59:19.039 --> 01:59:22.399 notice the double standard again because Daniel tried to argue 2291 01:59:22.479 --> 01:59:25.079 quite a bit for continuity there. But you'll notice that 2292 01:59:25.279 --> 01:59:27.880 earlier we had heard the Bible was corrupted, but now 2293 01:59:27.960 --> 01:59:30.279 all of these verses from the Old Testament somehow match 2294 01:59:30.359 --> 01:59:32.560 up to a kind of continuity with Islam. Well, wait 2295 01:59:32.560 --> 01:59:35.159 a minute, I thought all the Old Testament, Jesus, all 2296 01:59:35.199 --> 01:59:39.199 this was was corrupted. It's only corrupted when it doesn't 2297 01:59:39.319 --> 01:59:42.840 suit their purpose or their argumentation, that's a double standard. Next, 2298 01:59:42.880 --> 01:59:44.840 I would say that even in the Old Testament, the 2299 01:59:44.920 --> 01:59:48.800 rabbinic tradition, Jews did not always act upon these penalties. 2300 01:59:49.039 --> 01:59:52.520 Many of these penalties that were listed were about ritual impurity, 2301 01:59:52.720 --> 01:59:54.479 not all of them, but many of them were. And 2302 01:59:54.640 --> 01:59:57.720 ritual impurity does carry over into the New Testament when 2303 01:59:57.880 --> 02:00:00.079 in our view what happens is that not so how 2304 02:00:00.159 --> 02:00:03.119 much the state, although Christian states have at times enacted 2305 02:00:03.239 --> 02:00:06.119 some things like that pulpy for the things that were listed, 2306 02:00:06.720 --> 02:00:09.199 it's ritual and purity in terms of coming to the liturgy. 2307 02:00:09.279 --> 02:00:11.000 So in the Orthodox and in the Calviny Church, we 2308 02:00:11.039 --> 02:00:13.960 both share this position. You do confess your sins before 2309 02:00:14.000 --> 02:00:16.399 you come to the Eucharist. That's because if you have 2310 02:00:16.479 --> 02:00:19.680 committed these sins, you are ritually and in a sense morally, 2311 02:00:19.760 --> 02:00:22.479 because the ritual refers to the moral, you're morally impure, 2312 02:00:22.560 --> 02:00:24.680 and so that's the purpose of confession. So many of 2313 02:00:24.720 --> 02:00:26.760 these things do carry over, just not in the way 2314 02:00:26.800 --> 02:00:28.920 that they assume. And I would say that that's a 2315 02:00:29.000 --> 02:00:30.720 much better notion of continuity. 2316 02:00:30.960 --> 02:00:34.319 I'll let you go ahead, Sam, Yeah, I want Daniel 2317 02:00:34.399 --> 02:00:37.039 to think. I want to thank Daniel for proving that 2318 02:00:37.159 --> 02:00:40.439 Jesus has got a law. Why because according to the 2319 02:00:40.560 --> 02:00:43.439 chron in chapter five, verse twenty to twenty six, it 2320 02:00:43.640 --> 02:00:47.199 was his a law that ordered Moses and Israelites tenter 2321 02:00:47.319 --> 02:00:50.479 Kanaan and wipe it out chapter five, verse twenty twenty six. 2322 02:00:51.079 --> 02:00:54.680 Also it was his a law that ordered salt, which 2323 02:00:54.760 --> 02:00:59.680 the kron erroneously calls talu, because he fought jalut. And 2324 02:01:00.079 --> 02:01:02.720 I want him to justify tahu as a form of salt. 2325 02:01:03.079 --> 02:01:05.560 In chapter two, verse two forty six to two fifty one, 2326 02:01:06.000 --> 02:01:08.600 where it was his Allah, whom he said was Jesus, 2327 02:01:08.640 --> 02:01:10.920 So he just met Jesus, says Allah Mohammed's god in 2328 02:01:11.039 --> 02:01:13.520 judge in chapter two, verse two forty six to two 2329 02:01:13.600 --> 02:01:16.960 fifty one, who ordered Saul on these expeditions, and there's 2330 02:01:17.039 --> 02:01:20.359 not a word of condemnation by his prophet saying that 2331 02:01:20.720 --> 02:01:23.960 what Sal did to the livestock and children was an 2332 02:01:24.000 --> 02:01:26.359 abomination to a law that means he's better than his 2333 02:01:26.479 --> 02:01:28.960 god and his prophet. And again I want to thank 2334 02:01:29.079 --> 02:01:32.239 Daniel for proving that Jesus is Allah his god because 2335 02:01:32.399 --> 02:01:36.760 in Saihel Buhari, Volume four, number three fifty three asked 2336 02:01:36.800 --> 02:01:37.840 me to read it because I don't want to eat 2337 02:01:37.880 --> 02:01:41.600 up my time. There in an authentic narration, his prophet 2338 02:01:42.000 --> 02:01:45.560 refers to a prophet who went in an expedition jihad 2339 02:01:45.720 --> 02:01:48.840 and the son stood still, and his prophet narrates the 2340 02:01:48.920 --> 02:01:53.319 injunctions of Deuran me chapter twenty and also alludes to 2341 02:01:53.920 --> 02:01:57.119 Joshua chapter seventy ten. So that means Jesus is a 2342 02:01:57.239 --> 02:02:01.000 law his god, Mohammad's judge, because of according to your prophet, 2343 02:02:01.239 --> 02:02:04.760 your God sanctioned these marriages. I'm not marriage. I'm sorry 2344 02:02:04.920 --> 02:02:08.239 these wars, so that means you're better than your God. Now, ironically, 2345 02:02:08.319 --> 02:02:10.800 he quoted Exodus twenty one seven, but as he's been 2346 02:02:10.840 --> 02:02:13.520 doing all night, all day, and all night, he didn't 2347 02:02:13.600 --> 02:02:16.960 quote the entire context because if you read the context, 2348 02:02:17.039 --> 02:02:20.000 the reason why she couldn't be let out is because 2349 02:02:20.199 --> 02:02:23.039 a woman that time can't be let go to be 2350 02:02:23.119 --> 02:02:24.680 on her own. She has to be under the protection 2351 02:02:25.159 --> 02:02:27.560 of the master or her father. But then the text 2352 02:02:27.600 --> 02:02:31.359 says that she's to be married, not raped like what 2353 02:02:31.560 --> 02:02:33.920 Mohammad did in chapter four Verus twenty four and the 2354 02:02:34.039 --> 02:02:37.520 Sunna when they took married captives and raped them and 2355 02:02:37.640 --> 02:02:40.439 sold them Exodus twenty one seven to eleven says he's 2356 02:02:40.520 --> 02:02:43.039 to marry her or her son marries her, and if 2357 02:02:43.079 --> 02:02:45.119 he cannot be fair with her, she is to be 2358 02:02:45.239 --> 02:02:49.359 divorced and let go. So conveniently, he doesn't show that 2359 02:02:49.520 --> 02:02:53.520 this context again condemns Mohammad and his morality. And ironically 2360 02:02:53.680 --> 02:02:58.039 he mentions about the age of marriage well in the tullmood, 2361 02:02:58.840 --> 02:03:02.439 because Muhammad quotes Tomud, and I'll show you where even 2362 02:03:02.520 --> 02:03:05.880 his prophet said that according to the Torah. He confused 2363 02:03:05.880 --> 02:03:08.560 the Tumud the Torah, a woman has to be past 2364 02:03:08.640 --> 02:03:12.079 the age of twelve and show signs of maturity, and 2365 02:03:12.199 --> 02:03:15.680 he called that injunction in the Tumut the Torah. But 2366 02:03:15.880 --> 02:03:18.680 that means even by that standard his prophet is condemned 2367 02:03:18.720 --> 02:03:20.960 to hell because at the age of fifty four he 2368 02:03:21.079 --> 02:03:24.439 slept with a nine year old minor and sanctioned pedophilia. 2369 02:03:24.520 --> 02:03:29.319 Because there is no limit or age in Islamic shetty, 2370 02:03:29.399 --> 02:03:32.000 according to his scholars, that would say a woman has 2371 02:03:32.039 --> 02:03:35.800 to be yahai or this age in order for a 2372 02:03:35.880 --> 02:03:38.399 man to mount her. And in the same tolament it 2373 02:03:38.479 --> 02:03:40.840 says you are not to give a girl who's mature 2374 02:03:40.920 --> 02:03:45.239 enough for marriage to an old man and Muhammad was 2375 02:03:45.319 --> 02:03:47.840 fifty four years old. You don't get any older than that. 2376 02:03:48.000 --> 02:03:50.560 He was old enough to be her great granddaddy. So 2377 02:03:50.600 --> 02:03:53.199 I'm glad you're appealing to the Jewish Christian sources because 2378 02:03:53.239 --> 02:03:55.680 these very sources to say your prophet is a false 2379 02:03:55.720 --> 02:03:58.319 prophet and Antichrist. Under the feet of Jesus. 2380 02:03:58.399 --> 02:03:59.079 How much time I have? 2381 02:03:59.279 --> 02:03:59.920 Twenty seconds? 2382 02:04:01.439 --> 02:04:04.479 Yeah, ironically you mentioned it. Let me show you where 2383 02:04:04.479 --> 02:04:07.359 it says and the tall mut right here where it 2384 02:04:07.439 --> 02:04:13.239 says that you cannot give a young girl maturnoff for marriage, 2385 02:04:13.279 --> 02:04:15.640 which is past the age of twelfth to an old man. Here, 2386 02:04:15.720 --> 02:04:17.840 let me read this verse is referring to one who 2387 02:04:17.880 --> 02:04:19.399 marries his daughter to best time. 2388 02:04:20.439 --> 02:04:20.920 Timbs up. 2389 02:04:21.399 --> 02:04:21.840 That's time. 2390 02:04:22.439 --> 02:04:25.920 I know you want it to be okay physically. 2391 02:04:26.279 --> 02:04:28.680 All right, So I'm just showing a picture of Mario 2392 02:04:28.840 --> 02:04:31.920 here because he's a famous plumber and he's with his princess, 2393 02:04:32.119 --> 02:04:36.760 so I think that has significance. Plumbers, for Sam, can. 2394 02:04:36.720 --> 02:04:42.239 I just ask you a question? You have just ask 2395 02:04:42.319 --> 02:04:44.399 him questions. You have a chance to ask him a 2396 02:04:44.479 --> 02:04:46.840 question when we do the fire round. But I'm going 2397 02:04:46.920 --> 02:04:49.239 to turn it back to Team Islam here. We're going 2398 02:04:49.319 --> 02:04:52.119 to give you guys. One, No, we got one more 2399 02:04:52.199 --> 02:04:55.319 round five minutes for five minutes that you guys got, 2400 02:04:55.600 --> 02:04:58.119 So this is going to be teams now. It's going 2401 02:04:58.159 --> 02:04:59.399 to be on you guys five minutes. 2402 02:05:00.119 --> 02:05:05.199 Uh. Would you notice Christian audience that your champions here 2403 02:05:05.359 --> 02:05:09.000 did not mention child marriage? Are they dodging that issue? 2404 02:05:09.439 --> 02:05:12.920 Why didn't Jay or Sam mention child marriage? I thought 2405 02:05:13.359 --> 02:05:17.159 that Islam promotes pedophilia. You know why they didn't address 2406 02:05:17.239 --> 02:05:20.359 child marriage because they know that can in law in 2407 02:05:20.479 --> 02:05:25.600 the Catholic Church and Thomas Aquinas endorse child marriage and 2408 02:05:25.640 --> 02:05:29.239 marriage at age twelve twelve years old? Is that pedophilia? 2409 02:05:29.800 --> 02:05:30.039 Sam? 2410 02:05:30.079 --> 02:05:32.239 Why don't you answer that question? How about you? Jay? 2411 02:05:32.520 --> 02:05:37.159 You want to condemn the church for endorsing pedophilia, and 2412 02:05:37.279 --> 02:05:39.520 then he makes a big deal about how oh the 2413 02:05:39.640 --> 02:05:43.640 Old Testament you take the captives for marriage, as if 2414 02:05:43.680 --> 02:05:48.800 that's any different. You're taking captives. It's not a consensual relationship, Sam, Like, 2415 02:05:48.880 --> 02:05:52.119 who are you trying to fool? The Bible says take 2416 02:05:52.239 --> 02:05:55.399 these women and then shave their heads and then marry them. 2417 02:05:55.800 --> 02:05:58.319 It's not giving them a humiliate them, it's not giving 2418 02:05:58.359 --> 02:06:03.359 them an option. So I'm not condemning. Notice, get the logic, right, 2419 02:06:03.479 --> 02:06:06.520 Sam and Jay, I'm not condemning the Bible for slavery. 2420 02:06:06.960 --> 02:06:10.640 I believe that Islam also endorses slavery. Islam also endorses war, 2421 02:06:10.760 --> 02:06:12.640 but we don't go as far as Jesus in command 2422 02:06:12.720 --> 02:06:16.079 and killing babies like he does in Deuteronomy in numbers. 2423 02:06:16.479 --> 02:06:20.279 I don't condemn Christianity or the Bible or Catholicism for 2424 02:06:20.840 --> 02:06:24.399 this minor marriage, marrying girls as young as nine, ten, eleven. 2425 02:06:24.640 --> 02:06:26.640 I don't condemn that because I think that there's nothing 2426 02:06:26.680 --> 02:06:28.880 wrong with that. But I want your audience to know 2427 02:06:29.000 --> 02:06:31.600 that you don't find anything wrong with that. You don't 2428 02:06:31.600 --> 02:06:34.000 find anything wrong with a twelve year old getting married, 2429 02:06:34.119 --> 02:06:37.239 because that's what the Catholic Church, that's their morality, and 2430 02:06:37.319 --> 02:06:39.560 that's what this section of the debate is about. It's 2431 02:06:39.560 --> 02:06:41.640 about morality. So I'm giving it to you. 2432 02:06:41.840 --> 02:06:48.000 Juzz Yeah, I'm just interested in Sam, just a quick question, 2433 02:06:48.439 --> 02:06:52.359 why didn't you mention anything about abusing wives beaten wives? 2434 02:06:52.399 --> 02:06:55.520 I understand why you mentioned rape. I mean, I can 2435 02:06:55.680 --> 02:06:58.039 understand why you did that. Like what is the god 2436 02:06:58.079 --> 02:07:01.840 of the Bible that I mean? Which one? So just 2437 02:07:01.880 --> 02:07:03.800 to be clear here, Sam, can you let us know 2438 02:07:04.399 --> 02:07:08.399 what does the Bible teach about violence against your wives, 2439 02:07:09.279 --> 02:07:11.960 the limits at which you can umiliate them. Let's keep 2440 02:07:12.000 --> 02:07:15.119 in mind that Jesus in Matchew twenty three commands the 2441 02:07:15.159 --> 02:07:19.960 disciples and Christians to do and believe as the Pharisees believe. 2442 02:07:20.039 --> 02:07:23.000 And if I'm not wrong, they really liked young girls 2443 02:07:23.279 --> 02:07:26.359 three years older than one day. I mean, Jesus seems 2444 02:07:26.359 --> 02:07:28.399 to ocup with it. But are you ok with that? 2445 02:07:28.720 --> 02:07:28.760 Some? 2446 02:07:29.039 --> 02:07:31.359 Are you ok with that side of Jesus seems a 2447 02:07:31.479 --> 02:07:32.560 bit haughty for you, isn't it. 2448 02:07:33.760 --> 02:07:36.159 Yeah, we're pointing out plumbers because I think Sam has 2449 02:07:36.199 --> 02:07:38.800 a lot of experience with plumbers. He wants to insult. Hey, 2450 02:07:38.880 --> 02:07:44.479 don't interrupt our time, brother, don't interrupt, don't interrupt our time, moderator, moderator. 2451 02:07:44.239 --> 02:07:47.399 Just let them up. So we want to we want God. 2452 02:07:47.479 --> 02:07:50.479 We wanted to be courteous and not bring this stuff up. 2453 02:07:50.600 --> 02:07:53.199 But when Sam gets down and dirty and starts insulting 2454 02:07:53.279 --> 02:07:56.520 the prophet Mohammed, then we have to respond in kind. 2455 02:07:56.760 --> 02:07:59.880 We have to insult Sam and point out his vile 2456 02:08:00.079 --> 02:08:01.920 history and the kinds of filth that he puts on 2457 02:08:02.039 --> 02:08:05.239 his channel. So we're just playing fair. You wanted to 2458 02:08:05.319 --> 02:08:08.199 go down and dirty and use filthy language. Then we're 2459 02:08:08.239 --> 02:08:10.479 going to bring up the fact that a plumber basically 2460 02:08:10.560 --> 02:08:13.279 stole your wife and you and you had certain charges 2461 02:08:13.279 --> 02:08:16.600 against you. That's all. That's all. Now, condemned, child condemned. No, 2462 02:08:16.680 --> 02:08:17.359 our time is not up. 2463 02:08:17.439 --> 02:08:18.239 They got tom. 2464 02:08:19.279 --> 02:08:21.720 We have some time left. So we want to hear 2465 02:08:21.880 --> 02:08:25.640 you condemn child marriage. I didn't. And to go back 2466 02:08:25.640 --> 02:08:28.600 to what Jay said, I never said anything about continuity. 2467 02:08:28.760 --> 02:08:30.600 I never said that. Oh, what we find in the 2468 02:08:30.680 --> 02:08:34.399 Old Testament is continuous in terms of morality with the Quran. 2469 02:08:34.520 --> 02:08:36.279 I never claimed this. You just pulled this out of 2470 02:08:36.359 --> 02:08:39.600 your back pocket. Jay. We were not talking about rituals. 2471 02:08:39.640 --> 02:08:43.079 We're talking about practice of practices of war. The thing 2472 02:08:43.239 --> 02:08:46.520 is that the Bible says to genocide little babies, to 2473 02:08:46.680 --> 02:08:50.880 leave nothing that breathes alive. The Quran never says this. Yes, 2474 02:08:50.920 --> 02:08:53.560 the Quran commands war. There is the story of Moses 2475 02:08:53.600 --> 02:08:56.279 going to battle, Yeah, that exists, but there's no genocide 2476 02:08:56.800 --> 02:09:00.640 that is mentioned. Because the Quran is correcting the false 2477 02:09:01.520 --> 02:09:03.920 narratives that are found in the Old Testament, all the 2478 02:09:04.039 --> 02:09:07.119 additions that we find in all the different variations of 2479 02:09:07.319 --> 02:09:10.199 the Bible that we've discussed in the previous section. So 2480 02:09:10.319 --> 02:09:14.039 that's the difference. And yes, please, everyone is waiting. Stop 2481 02:09:14.159 --> 02:09:17.479 dodging the issue. Condemn child marriage. Tell us that the 2482 02:09:17.600 --> 02:09:21.600 Catholic Church is really a pedophilia organization over the centuries, 2483 02:09:21.680 --> 02:09:24.439 because canon law not the tal mood. We're not talking 2484 02:09:24.439 --> 02:09:26.840 about the tal mood. We're talking about Canon law says 2485 02:09:26.920 --> 02:09:30.319 that twelve years old is the age of marriage acceptable 2486 02:09:30.359 --> 02:09:33.600 age of marriage. So condemn that, please. We're waiting, Jay 2487 02:09:33.720 --> 02:09:35.720 and Sam, go ahead, you Jess. 2488 02:09:36.680 --> 02:09:39.159 Yeah, I mean they're going to condemned that because they 2489 02:09:39.239 --> 02:09:42.520 accept it historically. At least. Let's just be clear here. 2490 02:09:42.800 --> 02:09:46.800 We're not saying that this is hypocritical, but you're not consistent. 2491 02:09:46.880 --> 02:09:49.439 Who cares about virtuals in Greece When it comes down 2492 02:09:49.520 --> 02:09:52.720 to the meats and the matter, You guys approve child marriage. 2493 02:09:53.039 --> 02:09:56.119 Jesus approved it, the Pharisee has approved it, and this 2494 02:09:56.279 --> 02:09:58.960 is what you believe. I really want some to speak 2495 02:09:59.319 --> 02:10:02.239 on whether know a person can abuse their wife, whether 2496 02:10:02.359 --> 02:10:06.720 a person can take donation money, spend it incorrectly, maybe 2497 02:10:06.800 --> 02:10:09.399 spend it on young girls. Wouldn't be surprised to find 2498 02:10:09.439 --> 02:10:11.560 you enough Stein's list to be honest. So I just 2499 02:10:11.680 --> 02:10:14.680 really want some to ask and answer the question, do 2500 02:10:14.840 --> 02:10:18.439 you accept Sam do you accept child marriage? Yes or no? 2501 02:10:18.720 --> 02:10:21.479 And based on what we would like to know Jesus 2502 02:10:22.399 --> 02:10:24.239 is Jay condemn it? You condemned it? 2503 02:10:27.239 --> 02:10:27.520 Okay? 2504 02:10:27.960 --> 02:10:30.920 Five seconds? Five seconds? He take it back five seconds 2505 02:10:31.279 --> 02:10:32.640 when just reclaimed the five seconds. 2506 02:10:32.800 --> 02:10:35.520 Yeah, we're gonna don't demand something. 2507 02:10:35.279 --> 02:10:37.600 From us that you yourself aren't consistent with. 2508 02:10:37.880 --> 02:10:39.600 Okay, We're gonna add ten seconds to the clock for 2509 02:10:39.640 --> 02:10:42.800 Team Christianity for that. Okay, I'm gonna give you guys 2510 02:10:42.840 --> 02:10:45.319 five minutes on o'clock. This is gonna be the beginning 2511 02:10:45.399 --> 02:10:48.439 of round three. Okay. Uh So this is gonna be 2512 02:10:48.479 --> 02:10:54.960 the final round on Bible versus kron uh morality, human morality. 2513 02:10:55.399 --> 02:10:57.840 Uh So, I'll put five minutes on the clock. What 2514 02:10:58.000 --> 02:11:00.600 I'll do is I don't want to interrupt this. So 2515 02:11:00.640 --> 02:11:02.800 what we'll do is we'll read the chats after they 2516 02:11:02.840 --> 02:11:05.520 complete this round and then before they do the fire 2517 02:11:05.600 --> 02:11:08.560 round where they you know, open dialogue, then we'll do 2518 02:11:08.600 --> 02:11:10.600 the chats. Sorry to you, guys, I don't want to 2519 02:11:10.640 --> 02:11:11.880 interrupt it. You know what I mean, and the flow 2520 02:11:11.880 --> 02:11:13.800 and everything else like that. My job here's to monterie 2521 02:11:13.840 --> 02:11:15.720 give you guys, the best show. Don't want to interrupt 2522 02:11:15.760 --> 02:11:17.279 it with super chats right now. I'll do it after 2523 02:11:17.640 --> 02:11:19.760 we finished this and then we'll do the final thing. 2524 02:11:20.279 --> 02:11:21.680 So round three, five, ten on the clock for a 2525 02:11:21.720 --> 02:11:23.560 team Christianity. I know, Sam, you got a lot to say, 2526 02:11:23.640 --> 02:11:24.159 so go ahead. 2527 02:11:24.880 --> 02:11:26.359 Well, but Jay, do you want to say something real quick? 2528 02:11:26.399 --> 02:11:29.279 Yeah? Briefly so, I was referring to the topic that 2529 02:11:29.399 --> 02:11:32.000 Daniel and I debated and the way he's using these 2530 02:11:32.079 --> 02:11:34.840 texts here in this debate. Both of those situations show 2531 02:11:34.920 --> 02:11:37.720 that Daniel only uses the Old Testament when he suits 2532 02:11:37.760 --> 02:11:40.479 his purposes, and he's not consistent with it. In that debate, 2533 02:11:40.560 --> 02:11:43.359 he argued that Islam has more continuity with the Old 2534 02:11:43.399 --> 02:11:46.439 Testament because of whether there's some loose similarities between the 2535 02:11:46.560 --> 02:11:48.960 moms and places where you go and pray in a 2536 02:11:49.039 --> 02:11:51.239 mosque or whatever. That has nothing to do with the 2537 02:11:51.359 --> 02:11:54.399 continuity that the argument and that debate was about. Here, 2538 02:11:54.479 --> 02:11:57.359 he's using it as another way to say, these are 2539 02:11:57.399 --> 02:11:59.039 the texts and the Old Testament that are valid to 2540 02:11:59.119 --> 02:12:02.039 teach this. And my point is that he's arbitrary and 2541 02:12:02.119 --> 02:12:04.880 he has a double standard, and that's an internal critique 2542 02:12:04.920 --> 02:12:07.640 which neither of them have ever never understood. I've made 2543 02:12:07.680 --> 02:12:09.479 this point in every debate we have. They don't know 2544 02:12:09.520 --> 02:12:11.600 what an internal critique is. They think that it means 2545 02:12:11.680 --> 02:12:13.680 that you hold to your position. That's not what an 2546 02:12:13.720 --> 02:12:15.680 internal critique is. It's just showing that you have a 2547 02:12:15.760 --> 02:12:17.680 double standard. I'll let it go to you, Sam. 2548 02:12:18.279 --> 02:12:20.359 Yeah, Now, let me get back and answer the questions. 2549 02:12:20.399 --> 02:12:21.760 They think that I'm going to run like they've been 2550 02:12:21.800 --> 02:12:24.119 running by the Great of Jesus Christ. Now, as far 2551 02:12:24.199 --> 02:12:28.239 as those accusations, let's assume those accusations are true. All 2552 02:12:28.279 --> 02:12:30.159 you're proving is that I'm a sinner. I'm faithful to 2553 02:12:30.239 --> 02:12:32.520 the teachings of Christ. But I was acting like Muhammad 2554 02:12:32.880 --> 02:12:34.720 because Muhammad did a lot of plumbing with a lot 2555 02:12:34.760 --> 02:12:37.039 of women other than his own wives. Because when he's 2556 02:12:37.039 --> 02:12:41.199 sanctioned the rape of married women, raping them and selling 2557 02:12:41.239 --> 02:12:44.600 them off as channel, that's condemned by the God of 2558 02:12:44.640 --> 02:12:47.039 Moses and Deronomy twenty one ten to fourteen. So Lord, 2559 02:12:47.079 --> 02:12:49.640 forgive me for acting like Muhammad, because I know acting 2560 02:12:49.680 --> 02:12:52.640 like Mohammad leads me to hell, So I may have mercy. Now, 2561 02:12:52.720 --> 02:12:56.800 let's come back to the issue you kept saying that 2562 02:12:57.439 --> 02:13:02.000 will we condemn child marriage absolutely. And here Ezekiel sixteen 2563 02:13:02.079 --> 02:13:05.760 versus sixty eight, first quenteen seventh verse, chapter seven, verse 2564 02:13:05.800 --> 02:13:09.119 thirty six, the dedicate in chapter two, as well as 2565 02:13:09.159 --> 02:13:12.039 a tulmud. The reason why they say twelve if you 2566 02:13:12.079 --> 02:13:15.039 are in context, and I'm going to challenge Daniel, give 2567 02:13:15.119 --> 02:13:18.840 me the full quotation of Thomas and Quinas unedited, because 2568 02:13:18.880 --> 02:13:20.920 you're like your prophet, you like to edit and quote 2569 02:13:20.960 --> 02:13:25.319 out of context. They're placing it at twelve because that's 2570 02:13:25.359 --> 02:13:27.560 when they assume that a woman will reach puberty. And 2571 02:13:27.680 --> 02:13:30.680 even then they say she has to wait a little 2572 02:13:31.199 --> 02:13:35.279 time beyond twelve. For example, here in the Tomat says 2573 02:13:35.600 --> 02:13:38.359 not only twelve, but sometime after that when her breast 2574 02:13:38.359 --> 02:13:41.520 start formed, because they took that as indication that she's 2575 02:13:41.600 --> 02:13:45.239 now pubescent and that she's now knowledgeable enough to choose 2576 02:13:45.279 --> 02:13:48.039 marriage or reject marriage. So even by their standards, you 2577 02:13:48.119 --> 02:13:52.119 condemned Mohammad a hell because according to that very standard, 2578 02:13:52.479 --> 02:13:56.520 Mohammed mounted a nine year old. He was fifty four. 2579 02:13:56.960 --> 02:13:59.560 So Christian and Jewish sources would condemn him as a 2580 02:13:59.640 --> 02:14:02.439 petal file who desired a nine year old and he 2581 02:14:02.640 --> 02:14:05.159 mounted her. And then your Kuran and sixty five ors 2582 02:14:05.159 --> 02:14:08.680 four doesn't even have the age of twelve as the limit. 2583 02:14:09.039 --> 02:14:11.000 So yes, I condemn it, which is why I condemn 2584 02:14:11.039 --> 02:14:13.279 your prophet. And as far as violence, well, it's your 2585 02:14:13.359 --> 02:14:15.840 Kuran that says that you guys can beat your wives. 2586 02:14:15.960 --> 02:14:18.039 So if you want to accuse me of that, more 2587 02:14:18.119 --> 02:14:20.760 power to you. Lord Jesus forgive me. I'm a sinner 2588 02:14:20.960 --> 02:14:21.479 because I was. 2589 02:14:21.479 --> 02:14:23.640 Acting I at one point, Santa. I want to add, 2590 02:14:23.800 --> 02:14:27.199 just to point out aromic, I'm not Catholic. And as 2591 02:14:27.239 --> 02:14:29.279 a side note, I don't care what Thomas Aquinas says, 2592 02:14:29.359 --> 02:14:32.279 but irregardless of all that, it's not even true in 2593 02:14:32.359 --> 02:14:34.720 Catholic canon law that that's the age. It's sixteen for 2594 02:14:34.840 --> 02:14:37.159 a guy and it's fourteen for a woman, which again 2595 02:14:37.239 --> 02:14:39.319 presupposes that puberty has already happened. 2596 02:14:40.079 --> 02:14:44.079 Now, how much time we have minute? Yeah, and now 2597 02:14:44.279 --> 02:14:46.560 notice again they just prove that Jesus is a lot 2598 02:14:46.640 --> 02:14:50.680 Mohammed's god because their god Allah, who is Jesus. He's 2599 02:14:50.720 --> 02:14:53.920 the one who sanctioned what Moses did and canaan what 2600 02:14:54.119 --> 02:14:56.039 Joshua did, and I gave him a sources. Now notice 2601 02:14:56.079 --> 02:14:58.520 what they did. Oh yeah, it's just you know, an 2602 02:14:58.720 --> 02:15:02.039 instruction to go go ahead and carry out these expeditions generally. 2603 02:15:02.159 --> 02:15:04.000 But where does it say that in the Koran. And 2604 02:15:04.079 --> 02:15:06.960 here's my challenge to Daniel and Ijaz. Show me in 2605 02:15:07.079 --> 02:15:14.239 your Koran the explicit condemnation prohibition, explicit condemnation prohibition of 2606 02:15:14.439 --> 02:15:17.960 killing children, because I'll show you in your Koran where 2607 02:15:18.039 --> 02:15:22.520 your own God destroyed women, children, cattle, for example, in 2608 02:15:22.600 --> 02:15:25.640 the flood of Moses. I'm sorry, Noah, because the chron 2609 02:15:25.720 --> 02:15:28.720 does confuse two floods when a time of Moses and Noah, 2610 02:15:29.159 --> 02:15:31.199 and as well as Sodom tomorrow where he pelt them 2611 02:15:31.239 --> 02:15:34.479 with stones. Can you show me where your God discriminated 2612 02:15:34.520 --> 02:15:37.840 and said, oh okay, hey stone, that's a baby, avoid him. 2613 02:15:38.039 --> 02:15:41.720 That's California. But that pagan right there, recommend head show 2614 02:15:41.720 --> 02:15:44.239 it to me. And you're fully aware that your own 2615 02:15:44.439 --> 02:15:49.600 hadith mention where your prophet allowed women and children to 2616 02:15:49.720 --> 02:15:53.920 be killed indiscriminately. That's even in your own Hadith. But again, 2617 02:15:54.079 --> 02:15:56.279 like you've been doing with the Bible, you've been butchering 2618 02:15:56.319 --> 02:15:58.600 your Koran and your son now. And I don't blame 2619 02:15:58.680 --> 02:16:01.680 you because if I I'd have to resort to these 2620 02:16:01.760 --> 02:16:04.720 tactics because you can't define a lie mamma is then, 2621 02:16:04.760 --> 02:16:08.520 and Jesus is alive. End up story thirty seconds, all right, 2622 02:16:08.640 --> 02:16:11.680 So that's it. Anytime they attack the morality, they just 2623 02:16:11.840 --> 02:16:14.800 prove Mammaeda is a false prophet, their god Allaw is 2624 02:16:14.840 --> 02:16:17.239 a false god. And they are for other reasons because 2625 02:16:17.319 --> 02:16:20.880 your prophet confirms the Bible. My Bible doesn't confirm Muhammad, 2626 02:16:21.079 --> 02:16:24.439 and they keep forgetting Jesus is now the standard. And 2627 02:16:24.560 --> 02:16:27.039 even though the Old Testaments not the standard, even the 2628 02:16:27.159 --> 02:16:29.279 laws of the Old Testament are better than your prophet. 2629 02:16:29.359 --> 02:16:31.840 And notice what he said about captives. The reason why 2630 02:16:31.960 --> 02:16:34.120 she's taken captive there was a war, but that shows 2631 02:16:34.159 --> 02:16:36.680 to the humanity of the God of Moses. You don't 2632 02:16:36.760 --> 02:16:39.559 take a captive woman and raper like your prophet did. 2633 02:16:40.120 --> 02:16:43.239 All right, So what we're gonna do now is I'm 2634 02:16:43.239 --> 02:16:44.719 going to read the chats real quick, and then we're 2635 02:16:44.719 --> 02:16:47.959 going to go ahead and do a What I'll do 2636 02:16:48.000 --> 02:16:49.520 is I'll probably put ten minutes on a clock, says 2637 02:16:49.719 --> 02:16:51.239 it's the last one where you guys can go back 2638 02:16:51.239 --> 02:16:53.920 and forth with your discourse, and we'll do the same thing. 2639 02:16:54.920 --> 02:16:58.040 Question answer, question answer. We'll try to bop it around 2640 02:16:58.079 --> 02:17:00.840 and guys, if you could please answer each other's question please. 2641 02:17:01.239 --> 02:17:03.840 Uh so, I'll read these chats real quick and then 2642 02:17:03.879 --> 02:17:08.120 we'll get right back into it. What do we got here? Bills? Okay, 2643 02:17:08.879 --> 02:17:10.920 Dan Fry says the guy in the top corners opening 2644 02:17:10.959 --> 02:17:13.239 statement with shash water could be solid, liquid, could be gassed. 2645 02:17:13.239 --> 02:17:15.559 But there are some things in different father forms father son, 2646 02:17:15.600 --> 02:17:18.760 holy goes of course, and just you guys know, debaters, 2647 02:17:18.760 --> 02:17:21.079 the chatter is going to be bias towards their religion, 2648 02:17:21.120 --> 02:17:23.079 so it is what it is. Silad Sort says Sam. 2649 02:17:23.440 --> 02:17:26.440 Why would you say the words prove and rational in 2650 02:17:26.520 --> 02:17:28.559 a debate about religion? Why is it left hand such 2651 02:17:28.559 --> 02:17:31.159 an issue? Please mind etiquette when you're in a debate, 2652 02:17:31.280 --> 02:17:34.440 because pointless jab derailed the conversation. Okay, that's what Silace Sword, 2653 02:17:34.760 --> 02:17:37.239 We got h mark you, Matt. I know you're trying 2654 02:17:37.239 --> 02:17:39.159 to be professional timing rounds, but people want to see 2655 02:17:39.159 --> 02:17:41.760 blood blasts, so you should add an actual last round 2656 02:17:41.760 --> 02:17:43.120 where both parties just go at it. We did, we 2657 02:17:43.200 --> 02:17:45.799 got that. Don't worry, we were already on that. Mark you. 2658 02:17:46.799 --> 02:17:50.159 This Sam guy is unseerious. He goes and craatezone understanding 2659 02:17:50.159 --> 02:17:51.719 of his lump shows as integrity. I bet you will 2660 02:17:51.760 --> 02:17:55.600 find many contradictions if his understanding of Christianity is investigated. Okay, 2661 02:17:55.719 --> 02:17:58.840 Odi didan How come Islam was created six thirty five 2662 02:17:59.000 --> 02:18:00.719 and the Gospel John was created one hundred a d. 2663 02:18:01.079 --> 02:18:02.840 John was an eye witness. He saw I lived and 2664 02:18:02.959 --> 02:18:05.239 eat eating with Jesus. Should I believe in a cave 2665 02:18:05.360 --> 02:18:08.399 or a witness of Jesus Christ? Okay, Andrew Wilson, and 2666 02:18:08.440 --> 02:18:12.399 this is from army killo. We got snow, Valentine says, 2667 02:18:12.840 --> 02:18:15.440 just asking aren't we all going to hell under Islam? 2668 02:18:15.520 --> 02:18:18.000 And there's nothing we can do to correct it because 2669 02:18:18.040 --> 02:18:21.959 of our sinful nature? Okay, Snow, Valentine, we got here. 2670 02:18:22.040 --> 02:18:23.879 Mayn thank you for bringing this great debate together in 2671 02:18:23.920 --> 02:18:26.159 respect to all four men who are participating, Can I 2672 02:18:26.239 --> 02:18:28.840 recommend Christian Price to join? The next to me, Sam 2673 02:18:28.920 --> 02:18:30.200 can ask to join if you approved? 2674 02:18:30.239 --> 02:18:32.360 Thanks again, Yeah, Prince, he means prince. 2675 02:18:32.639 --> 02:18:35.000 Okay, that's when beings burner and guys. Sorry, my voice 2676 02:18:35.040 --> 02:18:36.840 is like this. I'm a little sick. So that's why 2677 02:18:36.840 --> 02:18:38.600 I've been like meeting myself in coughing on the side, 2678 02:18:38.719 --> 02:18:40.879 trying not to interrupt the debate. Does se Muslims even 2679 02:18:40.920 --> 02:18:43.920 know who Canaanites were they were an abomination, descendants of 2680 02:18:44.120 --> 02:18:48.239 neph frillen, fallen angels, demons, et cetera. Okay, Muslims struggle 2681 02:18:48.280 --> 02:18:51.879 with grasping nuanced concepts and have low cognitive flexibility. That's 2682 02:18:51.879 --> 02:18:54.600 from Saint Craper. This is why Sam's in the kitchen always, man, 2683 02:18:54.680 --> 02:18:58.000 stay cooking us from stone. Yeah t three, See guys, 2684 02:18:58.079 --> 02:19:00.479 You guys got supported on both sides every day. Young 2685 02:19:00.520 --> 02:19:03.120 And says this might be to Skitzo, but Zurka and 2686 02:19:03.280 --> 02:19:06.559 Sicco big spiritual influencers. One thing Sirka said that has 2687 02:19:06.639 --> 02:19:09.559 me learning more Christian is why is Jesus' most mock 2688 02:19:09.680 --> 02:19:14.680 figure if he wasn't God? Okay. Hamza says, Islam translates 2689 02:19:14.680 --> 02:19:16.760 the submission to God in Arabic language, all lot translates 2690 02:19:16.799 --> 02:19:19.639 to God in Arabic and Arabic languages. Christiated comes from 2691 02:19:19.639 --> 02:19:21.920 the word Messia in Greek language refers to Prophet Jesus. 2692 02:19:22.040 --> 02:19:25.479 Judaism comes from the tribe of Judah. Only Islam doesn't 2693 02:19:25.479 --> 02:19:28.079 associate anyone with God. The first human being a prophet, 2694 02:19:28.079 --> 02:19:31.879 Adam submitted himself to God, not the Messiah or Judah tribe. Okay. 2695 02:19:32.159 --> 02:19:34.120 And then the man Matt says, if you follow any 2696 02:19:34.239 --> 02:19:36.680 religion to the tea with fear or just blind faith, 2697 02:19:36.719 --> 02:19:38.319 I'm sorry, but you are a slave and cannot think 2698 02:19:38.360 --> 02:19:40.239 for yourself. There's no separation between us and God. We 2699 02:19:40.319 --> 02:19:41.879 are all a part of God. We all do what 2700 02:19:42.000 --> 02:19:44.000 Jesus did, who was black, by the way, and his 2701 02:19:44.120 --> 02:19:47.719 name was Yeshua. Yeah, yeah, yes Shua. Modern society has 2702 02:19:47.879 --> 02:19:50.280 forced the masses to believe that we all like peasants 2703 02:19:50.360 --> 02:19:53.719 to some omnipresent on the potent being, which couldn't be 2704 02:19:53.879 --> 02:19:56.559 farther from the truth. Everyone here needs to study Neville 2705 02:19:56.680 --> 02:20:00.600 Goddard's cheek teachings. Okay, wfn F, guys for making this 2706 02:20:00.680 --> 02:20:03.040 happen question for Sam and Jay if prova of Jesus, 2707 02:20:03.360 --> 02:20:05.879 peace be upon him, were to come back, which will happen? 2708 02:20:06.159 --> 02:20:08.280 What would happen to the Muslims who believe in him 2709 02:20:08.319 --> 02:20:11.040 as a prophet Banaa's God. Anyways, guys, we have much 2710 02:20:11.079 --> 02:20:13.200 more common than in differences, So he asks this question 2711 02:20:13.319 --> 02:20:18.559 for Team Christianity. Says, here, if Jesus came back, and 2712 02:20:19.120 --> 02:20:21.399 what would happen to the Muslims who believe him as 2713 02:20:21.399 --> 02:20:22.520 a prophet versus as a god? 2714 02:20:23.799 --> 02:20:25.719 That's question you wantest answered, Jay. Do you want to 2715 02:20:25.719 --> 02:20:26.799 take it first or you want me to take it. 2716 02:20:27.959 --> 02:20:28.159 Yeah. 2717 02:20:28.239 --> 02:20:30.200 When you say that the Muslims are reject Jesus, well 2718 02:20:30.280 --> 02:20:35.280 you got to take into consideration when you mean Muslims. 2719 02:20:35.319 --> 02:20:37.840 Not all Muslims know what they're rejecting. Not all Muslims 2720 02:20:37.920 --> 02:20:42.200 know this Islam Islam. Not all Muslims are educated. The 2721 02:20:42.280 --> 02:20:44.879 Lord Jesus is a god of infinite compassion and mercy. 2722 02:20:45.559 --> 02:20:49.600 He sees your situation, he meets you where you're at, 2723 02:20:50.040 --> 02:20:51.719 and if to no fault of your own, you didn't 2724 02:20:51.719 --> 02:20:54.239 know the truth of the Gospel, he extends mercy. So 2725 02:20:54.399 --> 02:20:57.520 this is my belief. Again, I'm speaking from my perspective. 2726 02:20:57.600 --> 02:20:59.879 Jay may have a different perspective. So you can't just 2727 02:21:00.200 --> 02:21:03.680 generalize all Muslims because not all Muslims know Islam. They 2728 02:21:03.719 --> 02:21:06.280 don't even know what Christians believe, just like Christians may 2729 02:21:06.360 --> 02:21:09.399 not know their faith right, let alone what Muslims believe. 2730 02:21:09.879 --> 02:21:11.760 God is a god of infinite mercy. And I don't 2731 02:21:11.760 --> 02:21:13.760 think the Muslims would disagree with me because you take 2732 02:21:13.799 --> 02:21:17.840 into consideration your circumstances, your knowledge, and your status and 2733 02:21:17.879 --> 02:21:19.959 position in life. That's my answer. I don't know if 2734 02:21:20.000 --> 02:21:21.639 Jay wants to answer some add. 2735 02:21:21.440 --> 02:21:27.399 Something to it. Jay, what do you think? What's yours? 2736 02:21:27.479 --> 02:21:29.120 Just that with me? 2737 02:21:29.360 --> 02:21:31.879 Oh yeah, I want to add I think, I mean, 2738 02:21:31.920 --> 02:21:33.920 I think I pretty much agree. I think Romans to 2739 02:21:34.399 --> 02:21:36.879 Paul addresses this. He says that those without law will 2740 02:21:36.920 --> 02:21:39.600 be judged on the basis of moral law or the 2741 02:21:39.719 --> 02:21:42.319 natural law that they have within them. So, you know, 2742 02:21:42.680 --> 02:21:45.639 we don't know people's destinies other than God tells us 2743 02:21:45.719 --> 02:21:48.639 to tell them to repent, and then ultimately God is 2744 02:21:48.639 --> 02:21:49.840 their merciful judge. 2745 02:21:50.040 --> 02:21:53.879 All right, any more chats in there? We all right, 2746 02:21:53.920 --> 02:21:56.879 I'm gonna fly through these. Okay. Victor says wise Man 2747 02:21:56.920 --> 02:21:59.440 once said you can't solve today's problems politically because men's 2748 02:21:59.479 --> 02:22:03.280 problems are spiritual. All agree? Okay. Slavii's uphold this is 2749 02:22:03.319 --> 02:22:08.719 from Gambler, So Lafi's uphold God's transcendence and reject anthrop anthromorphism. 2750 02:22:09.000 --> 02:22:12.200 They interpret chronic descriptions like hand or face as symbolic 2751 02:22:12.280 --> 02:22:15.120 of allows power, not literal human traits, ensuring that his 2752 02:22:15.719 --> 02:22:21.799 attributes remain distinct from human characteristics. Okay. Aristotle Online says 2753 02:22:22.040 --> 02:22:26.159 Islamic tawheed has been proven contradict this from titias. Okay, 2754 02:22:26.200 --> 02:22:29.120 go ahead, we can play. It just came in earlier 2755 02:22:29.159 --> 02:22:31.440 tour if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, it came in a 2756 02:22:31.440 --> 02:22:33.840 way early. I can't even hear. 2757 02:22:34.000 --> 02:22:37.959 Islamic tom feed has been proven contradictory. But the response 2758 02:22:38.040 --> 02:22:42.280 from Team Islam is askonis, don't think tom feed is contradictory. 2759 02:22:44.799 --> 02:22:51.319 Okay, says Allah made mercy into one hundred parts and 2760 02:22:51.399 --> 02:22:55.239 that he's sent down one part to the earth. How 2761 02:22:55.319 --> 02:22:59.680 does Allah's divine attribute have parts? How did Allah's attribute, 2762 02:23:00.000 --> 02:23:04.200 which divided on created free from limitation enter into creation? Okay. 2763 02:23:04.280 --> 02:23:10.559 David respond to doctor hythem Sidki, where he has shown 2764 02:23:10.879 --> 02:23:15.120 that the Quran MSS exhibit a stemna due to discrepancies 2765 02:23:15.399 --> 02:23:19.840 medine the first four copies these were codified in today's Quran. Also, 2766 02:23:20.000 --> 02:23:25.120 doctor Eleanor cellard that the Sudden MSS was a separate 2767 02:23:25.200 --> 02:23:30.399 accepted codex. Okay, and then Aristotle says, goobl duke, oh, gooblegook. 2768 02:23:30.639 --> 02:23:36.040 This level of handwaving requires tight titanium risks ok gobledygook okay, 2769 02:23:36.079 --> 02:23:38.879 and acy one says, why are you always quoting quote 2770 02:23:38.879 --> 02:23:41.799 mining Justin Martyr from Jehovah's witness and ignoring the rest 2771 02:23:41.840 --> 02:23:44.079 of the rebuttal, lying your balls up. That's from ac 2772 02:23:44.239 --> 02:23:46.360 one okay. And then David says for Muslims, is it 2773 02:23:46.399 --> 02:23:48.440 true that today's Quran is not based on early chronic 2774 02:23:48.479 --> 02:23:50.520 manage scripts, rather on the work of a man named 2775 02:23:52.040 --> 02:23:55.079 El Danny and his medieval Mussulai. 2776 02:23:55.120 --> 02:23:58.760 You always quote mining Justin Martyr from Johns witness and 2777 02:23:58.879 --> 02:24:02.600 ignoring the rest and the rebuttal. Okay, line your bulls off. 2778 02:24:03.040 --> 02:24:04.600 Okay, whose voice is that? 2779 02:24:05.120 --> 02:24:08.360 It's it's a random person to talk, you know, to 2780 02:24:08.399 --> 02:24:13.040 talk to speech that I liked his voice, it says here, okay, 2781 02:24:13.559 --> 02:24:17.319 So this is what doctor Marjin van Putin and others 2782 02:24:17.360 --> 02:24:20.440 have studied. How can that be trusted? So they're saying 2783 02:24:20.600 --> 02:24:23.399 today's Quran is not based on early chronic manuscripts, rather 2784 02:24:23.799 --> 02:24:26.159 on the work of a man named Abu Ama Danny. 2785 02:24:26.239 --> 02:24:27.920 Is that true, guys or you guys want to answer me? 2786 02:24:28.239 --> 02:24:31.440 That's not true. Doctor Morin is a friend and colleague. 2787 02:24:31.520 --> 02:24:34.399 This is ridiculous. He doesn't accept that whatsoever. In fact, 2788 02:24:34.479 --> 02:24:38.159 he actually attests to the fact that is reliable. It's 2789 02:24:38.200 --> 02:24:39.159 in the lifetime of the prophet. 2790 02:24:40.120 --> 02:24:44.120 Okay, last few here, I can book. The top renowned 2791 02:24:44.280 --> 02:24:48.360 Israelite official scholars and camp leaders for simulcast debates learned 2792 02:24:48.360 --> 02:24:50.760 the proper interpretation of our sacre detection from the descendants 2793 02:24:50.799 --> 02:24:53.680 of the biblical authors. I g okay, he puts ig 2794 02:24:53.959 --> 02:24:57.120 Alsie says, Jesus said love your enemy. But Muhammad dors 2795 02:24:57.200 --> 02:25:01.239 graping slaves and selling them for ransom. He'll Muslim fourteen 2796 02:25:01.280 --> 02:25:04.680 thirty eight google it. And what world would anyone think 2797 02:25:04.719 --> 02:25:09.479 these two prophets come from the same god. Okay, Aristotle online, 2798 02:25:09.479 --> 02:25:12.520 says gobbledy. Okay, all right, we're crought up. So okay, guys, 2799 02:25:12.559 --> 02:25:14.159 I'm gonna go ahead and put ten minutes on the clock. 2800 02:25:15.479 --> 02:25:17.200 Is that okay with you guys? Because I've noticed that 2801 02:25:17.239 --> 02:25:17.840 we won over time. 2802 02:25:17.959 --> 02:25:19.840 What we're doing now at this final part just to 2803 02:25:19.879 --> 02:25:20.360 get an idea. 2804 02:25:20.600 --> 02:25:22.479 This is going to be a question answer, open dialogue 2805 02:25:22.479 --> 02:25:23.760 between you guys, and this is going to be on 2806 02:25:23.840 --> 02:25:27.040 the morality of the Quran versus the Bible. I'm plenty 2807 02:25:27.079 --> 02:25:28.600 ten minutes on a clock because I've noticed that we've 2808 02:25:28.719 --> 02:25:30.239 before you do that. Is this the last? 2809 02:25:30.479 --> 02:25:30.799 This is it? 2810 02:25:30.959 --> 02:25:31.840 Yeah? This is the last one. 2811 02:25:31.959 --> 02:25:32.159 Yep. 2812 02:25:32.680 --> 02:25:33.719 So this last ten minutes. 2813 02:25:33.799 --> 02:25:35.559 This is the last ten minutes right here. So it's 2814 02:25:35.559 --> 02:25:37.920 gonna be a question answer. I will and guys please 2815 02:25:37.959 --> 02:25:39.639 try to answer each other question. So the way it 2816 02:25:39.719 --> 02:25:42.040 goes is you asked your question, the answer after the 2817 02:25:42.120 --> 02:25:44.000 person that answers it dictates the next question, and who 2818 02:25:44.239 --> 02:25:44.799 goes too fair? 2819 02:25:45.600 --> 02:25:45.719 Oh? 2820 02:25:45.879 --> 02:25:47.920 Yes, awesome? Who wants to kick it off first? 2821 02:25:49.319 --> 02:25:49.719 Awesome? 2822 02:25:50.040 --> 02:25:50.959 Okay, Jay, go ahead. 2823 02:25:51.920 --> 02:25:55.079 Well, I heard Sam condemned child marriage and he asked 2824 02:25:55.120 --> 02:25:57.440 me for a quote from Thomas Aquinas. I can read 2825 02:25:57.520 --> 02:26:00.719 the quote if you want, but he does say, huh, 2826 02:26:00.799 --> 02:26:03.600 you want me to read it? Y, yes, okay, I'll 2827 02:26:03.639 --> 02:26:06.239 read it. But my question for Jay he can think 2828 02:26:06.280 --> 02:26:08.920 about it. In the meantime. Sam condemned child marriage. I 2829 02:26:08.959 --> 02:26:12.920 wonder if Jay will also condemn child marriage despite the tradition, 2830 02:26:13.399 --> 02:26:17.680 the church tradition. Here's the quote. Let me just bring 2831 02:26:17.760 --> 02:26:23.639 it here. I'll read the whole thing since quote. Since 2832 02:26:23.760 --> 02:26:26.520 marriage is affected by way of a contract, it comes 2833 02:26:26.600 --> 02:26:30.200 under the ordinance of positive law like other contracts. Consequently, 2834 02:26:30.239 --> 02:26:32.639 according to law, it's determined that marriage may not be 2835 02:26:32.799 --> 02:26:36.120 contracted before the age of discretion. When each party is 2836 02:26:36.200 --> 02:26:40.040 capable of sufficient deliberation about marriage and of mutual fulfillment 2837 02:26:40.120 --> 02:26:44.639 of the marriage debt, and that marriages otherwise contracted are void. Now, 2838 02:26:44.719 --> 02:26:47.440 for the most part, this age is fourteen years old 2839 02:26:47.559 --> 02:26:51.840 for males and twelve year old twelve year old for women. 2840 02:26:52.680 --> 02:26:56.200 But since the ordinance of positive law are consequent upon 2841 02:26:56.280 --> 02:26:59.159 what happens in the majority of cases, if anyone reached 2842 02:26:59.200 --> 02:27:04.840 the require perfection before the aforesaid age, so that nature 2843 02:27:04.840 --> 02:27:08.319 and reason are sufficiently developed to supply the lack of age, 2844 02:27:08.399 --> 02:27:11.879 the marriage is not annulled. Wherefore, if the parties who 2845 02:27:11.959 --> 02:27:17.159 marry before the age of puberty have marital intercourse before 2846 02:27:17.319 --> 02:27:22.959 the aforesaid age of twelve, their marriage is nonetheless perpetually indissoluble. 2847 02:27:24.280 --> 02:27:27.920 End quote. I stopped fining. So my question now there, Jay, 2848 02:27:28.120 --> 02:27:29.760 is does he condemn child marriage? 2849 02:27:29.959 --> 02:27:31.840 Okay, I stopped the clock. We can start the clock 2850 02:27:31.879 --> 02:27:33.719 back up again, because you're reading something lengthy and any 2851 02:27:33.760 --> 02:27:34.719 one time you can get eaten by that. 2852 02:27:34.760 --> 02:27:39.000 Go ahead, Jay, Sorry, so there's ambiguity about quote child. 2853 02:27:39.159 --> 02:27:41.280 I'm not a Catholic, so again, I don't care what 2854 02:27:41.360 --> 02:27:43.680 Thomas Aquinas says. He's not part of my tradition. And 2855 02:27:43.799 --> 02:27:46.959 even Thomas Aquinas's positions on many things are not part 2856 02:27:47.000 --> 02:27:50.559 of the overall Roman Catholic position. Roman Catholic canon law 2857 02:27:50.639 --> 02:27:53.719 in ten eighty three says again that the age is 2858 02:27:54.000 --> 02:27:57.319 sixteen for a guy, fourteen for a girl. Orthodox canon 2859 02:27:57.399 --> 02:27:59.840 law is different. In Greece. For example, the age of 2860 02:28:00.440 --> 02:28:01.440 question for Team. 2861 02:28:01.399 --> 02:28:06.840 Islam is the Q created created answer without communising shirt 2862 02:28:07.360 --> 02:28:13.079 violating tar feet or violating Tanzy or making the Koran unknowable. Sorry, buddy, 2863 02:28:13.079 --> 02:28:15.879 if you think this question is irrelevant, you have no 2864 02:28:16.040 --> 02:28:17.799 grounds to criticize the Trinity. 2865 02:28:18.319 --> 02:28:21.040 We'll have a well, well, we'll address that after the fact. 2866 02:28:21.760 --> 02:28:23.920 We'll put that back on the clock and continue. 2867 02:28:23.959 --> 02:28:24.399 I'm sorry. 2868 02:28:24.719 --> 02:28:27.319 Yeah, So Orthodox canon law is there's not a one 2869 02:28:27.360 --> 02:28:30.479 size fits all in the sense of being identical to 2870 02:28:30.559 --> 02:28:34.040 like Roman Catholic ideas. So for example, in Greece, the 2871 02:28:34.159 --> 02:28:37.159 parents can be involved and it's under eighteen. If the 2872 02:28:37.239 --> 02:28:39.760 parents agree, it could be it can be fifteen. So 2873 02:28:40.000 --> 02:28:42.399 it's we don't have one size fits all, but for 2874 02:28:42.639 --> 02:28:47.200 us adult or it's not a child marriage because again, 2875 02:28:47.280 --> 02:28:49.719 as Sam was pointing out, the assumption would be either 2876 02:28:49.760 --> 02:28:50.639 their past puberty. 2877 02:28:51.959 --> 02:28:55.399 All right, Jake, now you question is to you go 2878 02:28:55.440 --> 02:28:58.000 ahead and toss it to anyone from the Teamazon. 2879 02:29:00.920 --> 02:29:03.520 In terms of morality. What is the purpose of the 2880 02:29:03.680 --> 02:29:09.520 rituals in the various postures or cleansings that you might 2881 02:29:09.639 --> 02:29:12.639 do in your religion. If they come out of a 2882 02:29:12.719 --> 02:29:16.159 tradition that has a specific purpose for them, that now 2883 02:29:16.239 --> 02:29:20.120 your religion divorces it from that from that tradition. I'm 2884 02:29:20.159 --> 02:29:22.040 curious what the purpose of those rituals are. Is it 2885 02:29:22.159 --> 02:29:23.360 just because you're told to do. 2886 02:29:23.399 --> 02:29:27.680 It, Well, that's your assumption that it's coming from the 2887 02:29:27.799 --> 02:29:31.959 Bible or the Christian tradition or a Jewish tradition. That's 2888 02:29:32.040 --> 02:29:35.680 your assumption that we don't share. The ritual purity is 2889 02:29:36.440 --> 02:29:39.440 part of it is what God has commanded and it's 2890 02:29:39.440 --> 02:29:43.280 supposed to be Cleanliness will bring you closer to God. 2891 02:29:43.520 --> 02:29:47.520 Cleanliness is from godliness. This is a principle within Islam. 2892 02:29:48.280 --> 02:29:51.760 So ritual purity before prayer, like will do or making 2893 02:29:51.799 --> 02:29:57.319 a hustle, after certain actions like intercourse, you have to 2894 02:29:57.479 --> 02:30:01.319 do a ritual wash. These are commands of God. And 2895 02:30:01.520 --> 02:30:05.200 it's understood that water has been created as something to purify, 2896 02:30:06.440 --> 02:30:11.159 but it's not something where Yeah, you'll find other prophets 2897 02:30:11.479 --> 02:30:16.239 in the Bible talking about ritual purity. We acknowledge that 2898 02:30:16.479 --> 02:30:20.360 these religions were originally from God. So you do find 2899 02:30:20.440 --> 02:30:26.000 ritual purity in the Bible or in Christianity, but that 2900 02:30:26.079 --> 02:30:31.079 doesn't mean that Islam copied these traditions. The source is 2901 02:30:31.200 --> 02:30:34.840 the same, it's coming from the same God. So I 2902 02:30:34.920 --> 02:30:37.799 don't see how this is some kind of interrogation of 2903 02:30:38.040 --> 02:30:39.040 Islamic morality. 2904 02:30:39.319 --> 02:30:41.479 If it's from the same God, then it's continuity. 2905 02:30:42.840 --> 02:30:46.360 No, there's no no continuity. How is that good from 2906 02:30:46.399 --> 02:30:48.760 the same God. You just said that it's the same source. 2907 02:30:48.840 --> 02:30:49.959 Where did I say continuity? 2908 02:30:50.479 --> 02:30:53.319 Well, if the relief, the rituals came to our religion 2909 02:30:53.360 --> 02:30:55.479 from the same God to yours, continuity. 2910 02:30:55.680 --> 02:30:59.920 No God can change God. God can have a ritual 2911 02:31:00.200 --> 02:31:05.200 for specific race, like in Judaism. You can burn calves, 2912 02:31:05.319 --> 02:31:10.000 you can burn certain livestock as a form of ritual practice. 2913 02:31:10.479 --> 02:31:14.440 That doesn't mean God has required that for Christians or Muslims. 2914 02:31:14.719 --> 02:31:17.440 It's still the same God. But there isn't continuity, there's 2915 02:31:17.440 --> 02:31:20.920 not particular practice. Yeah, there's not continuity because I said 2916 02:31:20.959 --> 02:31:23.319 that it's coming from the same source. You're claiming that 2917 02:31:23.399 --> 02:31:24.840 there's continuity. 2918 02:31:24.920 --> 02:31:26.719 But didn't you argue for continuity and our debate. 2919 02:31:27.959 --> 02:31:30.079 No, you didn't understand what I argued for an art debate. 2920 02:31:30.120 --> 02:31:31.239 Well, you argue for continuity. 2921 02:31:32.559 --> 02:31:35.920 You didn't understand that debate. I don't know why you're 2922 02:31:35.920 --> 02:31:37.840 bringing it up. I don't know why you're bringing it 2923 02:31:37.959 --> 02:31:40.559 up in this debate. You're still living I'm living in, 2924 02:31:42.959 --> 02:31:45.799 living in your head, living in your head, rent free. 2925 02:31:46.120 --> 02:31:48.360 I'm living in your head, rent free. You're still debating 2926 02:31:48.479 --> 02:31:52.479 like a previous debate. We're talking about we're talking about 2927 02:31:52.559 --> 02:31:55.440 child marriage. We're talking about child marriage. And you can't 2928 02:31:55.479 --> 02:31:59.600 even give a condemnation. Neither you, neither you or Sam 2929 02:31:59.639 --> 02:32:02.920 can say Thomas Aquinas. Neither you or or Sam can 2930 02:32:02.959 --> 02:32:06.000 say that Thomas Aquinas, our pedophile is a pedophile. 2931 02:32:06.000 --> 02:32:08.479 I don't follow Thomas Aquinas. You're bringing irrellab Why can't 2932 02:32:08.479 --> 02:32:09.079 you condemn him? 2933 02:32:09.159 --> 02:32:12.239 Why can't you condemn him Aquinas? Yeah, why can't you? 2934 02:32:12.719 --> 02:32:13.440 I don't have a problem. 2935 02:32:14.399 --> 02:32:17.239 Can you condemn him? Say he's a pedoph? Here, he's 2936 02:32:17.239 --> 02:32:18.920 a pedophile, Then he's a pedophile? 2937 02:32:19.040 --> 02:32:21.159 Correct that what pedophy? Did he sleep with a girl 2938 02:32:21.200 --> 02:32:21.840 like your prophet did? 2939 02:32:22.280 --> 02:32:24.120 He said it's fine too, he said, he said that's 2940 02:32:24.159 --> 02:32:25.280 fine for twelve years older. 2941 02:32:25.319 --> 02:32:25.440 Young. 2942 02:32:25.600 --> 02:32:27.520 I read the quote, Sam, I read the quote and 2943 02:32:27.600 --> 02:32:28.639 he's dressing a leak. 2944 02:32:28.719 --> 02:32:32.360 I read the quote child he says you can have 2945 02:32:32.559 --> 02:32:36.559 intercourse with under twelve. The intercourse is that a pedophilia? 2946 02:32:37.639 --> 02:32:38.799 It's your question. 2947 02:32:38.840 --> 02:32:39.920 I read the entire pace. 2948 02:32:40.079 --> 02:32:42.360 You want to turn it to it's it's your question, Dan, 2949 02:32:42.440 --> 02:32:44.239 it's your's your turn asked a question, unless you want 2950 02:32:44.239 --> 02:32:45.399 to turn it to Sam, and you can ask you 2951 02:32:45.479 --> 02:32:45.959 guys something. 2952 02:32:46.760 --> 02:32:49.159 Yeah. So my question is that we didn't just talk 2953 02:32:49.159 --> 02:32:52.719 about child marriage. We talked about punishment for blasphemy, punishment 2954 02:32:52.840 --> 02:32:59.000 for adultery, execution, punishment for homosexuality. Do you condemn all 2955 02:32:59.079 --> 02:33:01.360 of these things and the Old Testament? Do you think 2956 02:33:01.479 --> 02:33:04.200 that these are wrong things? When I read the quotes, 2957 02:33:04.600 --> 02:33:07.520 the Bible is saying that you execute one who blasphemes. 2958 02:33:07.600 --> 02:33:09.840 Do you condemn that or do you think that that's 2959 02:33:10.360 --> 02:33:13.520 the morality. You might think that it's not applicable today, fine, 2960 02:33:13.879 --> 02:33:16.639 but Jesus is still commanding that for that time, for 2961 02:33:16.719 --> 02:33:19.559 a previous time. So do you think that is morally justified? 2962 02:33:19.559 --> 02:33:21.200 All right, that's Sam, Now. 2963 02:33:21.239 --> 02:33:21.680 Let me answer. 2964 02:33:21.799 --> 02:33:21.959 Yeah. 2965 02:33:22.040 --> 02:33:26.120 Now, let me give you a thori answeren Let's see 2966 02:33:26.120 --> 02:33:28.520 if you're going to get it. If you read these 2967 02:33:28.639 --> 02:33:32.040 laws in the context from which you're quoting. Unlike your prophet, 2968 02:33:32.440 --> 02:33:34.799 who didn't give any sign that his God was backing 2969 02:33:34.840 --> 02:33:37.600 him up, why don't you read these statements in context. 2970 02:33:37.799 --> 02:33:40.920 In the context, you're a law who you admitted Jesus. 2971 02:33:41.239 --> 02:33:43.120 According to cron that was a law which you just 2972 02:33:43.159 --> 02:33:45.719 admitted Jesus. So Jesus, as Mohammed z Allah is God. 2973 02:33:46.440 --> 02:33:50.239 In the context of those passages, God appears to the 2974 02:33:50.360 --> 02:33:53.440 nation visibly in a pillar of cloud by day and 2975 02:33:53.559 --> 02:33:56.760 a pillar of fire by night, not only in front 2976 02:33:56.760 --> 02:33:59.920 of the Israelites, but he also appears to the Egyptians, 2977 02:34:00.399 --> 02:34:03.959 leaving them with no excuse to defy his commands. In 2978 02:34:04.079 --> 02:34:07.559 other words, unlike your Ellah, the God of the Bible 2979 02:34:07.760 --> 02:34:10.399 prove his existence. The God of the Bible set up 2980 02:34:10.440 --> 02:34:13.600 a theocracy honor. The God of the Bible gave them 2981 02:34:13.680 --> 02:34:17.360 ample proof not to doubt his existence, so that when 2982 02:34:17.440 --> 02:34:20.079 they see him in the pillar of pillar fire by night, 2983 02:34:20.239 --> 02:34:22.879 hear his voice audibly and see the signs, so that 2984 02:34:22.959 --> 02:34:26.520 even the Egyptians saw the pillar of cloud Exodus fourteen 2985 02:34:27.000 --> 02:34:30.079 nineteen to thirty one, as well as Joshua two eight 2986 02:34:30.120 --> 02:34:33.399 to eleven. He gave the nations no excuse for defying him. 2987 02:34:33.680 --> 02:34:36.399 So when God shows up, then he has every right 2988 02:34:36.600 --> 02:34:38.600 to tell you how to live, and if you defy him, 2989 02:34:38.600 --> 02:34:40.879 he has every right to take away your life because 2990 02:34:40.920 --> 02:34:44.479 he's the God over death and life. This is unlike 2991 02:34:44.559 --> 02:34:48.879 your prophet, who could not provide any proof that God 2992 02:34:49.040 --> 02:34:52.040 was speaking through him, who couldnot provide that his God 2993 02:34:52.120 --> 02:34:55.479 even exists. All he did was he borrowed the collateral 2994 02:34:55.680 --> 02:34:58.719 of the Jews and Christians, claimed to be a prophet 2995 02:34:58.879 --> 02:35:02.040 like the prophet's in the Jewish Christian tradition, but when 2996 02:35:02.079 --> 02:35:06.319 he's challenged to prove that God sent him, failed miserably. 2997 02:35:06.760 --> 02:35:09.559 So you're comparing apples and pineapples. So if God shows 2998 02:35:09.680 --> 02:35:12.040 up and I see and I know that he exists, 2999 02:35:12.200 --> 02:35:13.959 he has every right to tell me what to do 3000 02:35:14.079 --> 02:35:16.840 and every right to inflict any punishment he deems fit, 3001 02:35:17.239 --> 02:35:18.799 unlike your elaw who doesn't exist. 3002 02:35:19.559 --> 02:35:21.440 All right, Tim, you're going to turn it back to 3003 02:35:21.520 --> 02:35:23.879 them with a question or a team Christianity? Did you 3004 02:35:23.920 --> 02:35:25.680 turn you answered the question? Out's back to you, guys. 3005 02:35:25.719 --> 02:35:26.879 You got two minutes leven o'clock. 3006 02:35:27.399 --> 02:35:28.520 Now, Jay, do you want to ask you let me 3007 02:35:28.600 --> 02:35:28.840 to ask? 3008 02:35:29.559 --> 02:35:31.600 Oh, well, I want to address first of all, I'll 3009 02:35:31.639 --> 02:35:33.159 let you ask the question, but I want to reply 3010 02:35:33.280 --> 02:35:36.159 since we have two minutes that you'll notice that when 3011 02:35:36.159 --> 02:35:38.440 I brought up the line of argumentation that Daniel had 3012 02:35:38.479 --> 02:35:40.319 in our debate, he didn't want to go there. He 3013 02:35:40.399 --> 02:35:43.600 immediately said that I was that he was living rent 3014 02:35:43.639 --> 02:35:46.040 free in my head, in other words, deflecting away from 3015 02:35:46.079 --> 02:35:48.079 the fact that I've called him out on an inconsistency 3016 02:35:48.159 --> 02:35:50.920 because in that debate he was arguing for Islam having 3017 02:35:51.000 --> 02:35:53.520 more continuity with the laws of the Old Testament. That 3018 02:35:53.639 --> 02:35:56.360 doesn't suit his purpose here, and so he doesn't want 3019 02:35:56.399 --> 02:35:58.120 to go to that and he has to deflect the way, Oh, 3020 02:35:58.719 --> 02:36:01.360 I live in your head rent free. No, that's because 3021 02:36:01.360 --> 02:36:03.399 I just caught you in a double standard. You're using 3022 02:36:03.479 --> 02:36:07.239 two different standards as usual. So Sam, I'll vote to 3023 02:36:07.239 --> 02:36:10.079 you how many seconds we have to for this minute 3024 02:36:10.079 --> 02:36:10.360 and a half. 3025 02:36:10.399 --> 02:36:12.680 Have you got a question or something that you want 3026 02:36:12.680 --> 02:36:13.079 to ask the team? 3027 02:36:13.239 --> 02:36:15.319 Well, I got a question. I'm sorry. Okay, ask these 3028 02:36:15.319 --> 02:36:17.799 guys a question because they have the final right they're 3029 02:36:17.840 --> 02:36:18.280 going to answer. 3030 02:36:18.280 --> 02:36:20.600 This is the final one, right, yep, okay, okay. 3031 02:36:20.639 --> 02:36:22.680 Now I want you guys to show me anywhere in 3032 02:36:22.760 --> 02:36:27.200 your Koran explicit not inference anywhere in your Koran explicit 3033 02:36:27.840 --> 02:36:30.799 where it says do not kill women and children. In 3034 02:36:30.920 --> 02:36:33.479 light of all the verses such as the ones I 3035 02:36:33.600 --> 02:36:38.799 mentioned where your God rainstones on Sodom Gomora indiscriminately killing 3036 02:36:38.920 --> 02:36:42.159 children and women in cattle, as well as flooding the 3037 02:36:42.200 --> 02:36:45.360 people of Noah, including women, children, and cattle. Can you 3038 02:36:45.479 --> 02:36:48.200 show me a single verse in the Koran where when 3039 02:36:48.559 --> 02:36:50.959 he orders your prophet to go and performs jihat, not 3040 02:36:51.040 --> 02:36:52.920 to kill women and children when his pattern is he 3041 02:36:52.959 --> 02:36:53.760 destroys everything. 3042 02:36:54.520 --> 02:36:56.840 All right, no team is leam, go ahead and we'll 3043 02:36:56.879 --> 02:36:58.440 put the clock back on. Just sweak and answer. 3044 02:36:58.440 --> 02:37:01.440 So, first of all, we don't just go by the Koran. 3045 02:37:01.559 --> 02:37:03.639 We also go by the example of the Prophita be 3046 02:37:03.719 --> 02:37:05.639 upon him. This is the Koran and Sunna. So there 3047 02:37:05.680 --> 02:37:08.520 are explicit hadith that say do not kill women and 3048 02:37:08.639 --> 02:37:10.559 children and the elderly. And we see this in the 3049 02:37:10.600 --> 02:37:13.000 example of the Seller as well. You just go ahead 3050 02:37:13.040 --> 02:37:14.959 and read the hadith for them. 3051 02:37:15.760 --> 02:37:17.959 Yes, it's pretty simple. The first d is a woman 3052 02:37:18.120 --> 02:37:20.319 was found killed in one of these battles. So the 3053 02:37:20.399 --> 02:37:24.239 messenger of God Sola I forbade the killing of women 3054 02:37:24.360 --> 02:37:28.559 and children, Sahi Muslim and Kitabo Ji had the first halifa. 3055 02:37:28.760 --> 02:37:32.239 Rebecca da Huan gave the following command to his arms. 3056 02:37:32.479 --> 02:37:35.000 So this is other than the prophet, but his followers, 3057 02:37:35.040 --> 02:37:38.520 immediate followers. Do not kill a woman or children, one 3058 02:37:38.680 --> 02:37:42.200 aged infirm person. Do not cut down fruit bearing trees. 3059 02:37:42.399 --> 02:37:45.000 Do not destroy in habits a place. Do not slaughter 3060 02:37:45.159 --> 02:37:47.799 sheep or camels except for food. Do not burn bees 3061 02:37:47.840 --> 02:37:50.200 and do not scatter them. Do not steal from the booty, 3062 02:37:50.280 --> 02:37:52.079 and do not be cowardly. That would be tough. I 3063 02:37:52.120 --> 02:37:55.479 guess you for some Just to be clear here, just 3064 02:37:55.760 --> 02:37:59.639 so we establish this. When you claim that Koran approved 3065 02:37:59.799 --> 02:38:02.879 re this was your claim, and you claimed that the 3066 02:38:02.959 --> 02:38:07.520 Koran approved genocide when you spoke of soul, Why does 3067 02:38:07.559 --> 02:38:10.120 the Kuran do that? Never does that once? And the 3068 02:38:10.200 --> 02:38:12.680 Klan actually says in the same chapter I'm asking the 3069 02:38:12.799 --> 02:38:15.600 question only in a statement. The Klan actually says in 3070 02:38:15.680 --> 02:38:18.879 that chapter, do not transgress beyond the limits which on 3071 02:38:19.040 --> 02:38:21.520 law has established. Are we more what those limits are 3072 02:38:21.559 --> 02:38:23.079 based on the durations we just read. 3073 02:38:23.600 --> 02:38:23.760 Yeah. 3074 02:38:23.840 --> 02:38:27.399 Also to answer what Sam said that, oh, there's a 3075 02:38:27.520 --> 02:38:30.360 pillar of cloud that the Israelites saw, so therefore you 3076 02:38:30.399 --> 02:38:34.360 can kill homosexuals. He's ignorant of Mosaic law because the 3077 02:38:34.479 --> 02:38:37.639 Jews who lived after the time of Cyani, they were 3078 02:38:37.719 --> 02:38:40.559 still bound by the Old Testament law. They were still 3079 02:38:40.639 --> 02:38:43.959 bound by the Mosaic law. They were still killing the blasphemers, 3080 02:38:44.079 --> 02:38:49.079 killing the sorcerers, killing the adulters, executing them, executing anyone 3081 02:38:49.159 --> 02:38:52.680 who tempted you to worship idols. You have to execute them. 3082 02:38:52.719 --> 02:38:56.280 That's what Jesus says. Those Jews didn't see pillars of 3083 02:38:56.399 --> 02:38:58.879 clouds and they didn't see any miracles. They were living 3084 02:38:58.920 --> 02:39:02.920 after the time of Sina. So your biblical all or 3085 02:39:03.000 --> 02:39:06.959 your exegesis is completely off base. And also Jay is 3086 02:39:07.159 --> 02:39:12.079 misrepresenting the Catholic Church. He's misrepresenting Canon law. I'll read 3087 02:39:12.200 --> 02:39:14.840 more quotes for you. In the twelfth century Canon law, 3088 02:39:14.959 --> 02:39:18.399 jurist gration stated that consent for marriage could not take 3089 02:39:18.440 --> 02:39:21.319 place before the age of twelve old, twelve years old 3090 02:39:21.360 --> 02:39:24.799 for female than fourteen years old for males. Also, consent 3091 02:39:24.959 --> 02:39:27.600 and betrothal could not take place before the age of 3092 02:39:27.719 --> 02:39:30.639 seven year old from females and males, as that is 3093 02:39:30.719 --> 02:39:33.639 the age of reason. So it's actually seven years old 3094 02:39:33.719 --> 02:39:36.719 and twelve years old. The Church of England after breaking 3095 02:39:36.760 --> 02:39:39.120 away from the Roman Catholic Church, carried with it the 3096 02:39:39.280 --> 02:39:42.639 same minimum age requirements age of consent for marriage of 3097 02:39:42.719 --> 02:39:45.879 twelve years old for girls and fourteen year old for 3098 02:39:46.079 --> 02:39:49.680 boys is written into English law and then the Catholic Church. 3099 02:39:49.799 --> 02:39:53.760 Before the nineteen seventeen Code of Canon Law, the minimum 3100 02:39:53.840 --> 02:39:58.200 age for a dissoluble betrothal was seven years seven years 3101 02:39:58.440 --> 02:40:01.760 in the contractees, minimal age for a valid marriage was 3102 02:40:01.840 --> 02:40:05.680 puberty or nominally fourteen years for males and twelve years 3103 02:40:05.719 --> 02:40:10.600 old for females. This is the nineteen seventeen Code of 3104 02:40:10.719 --> 02:40:14.120 the Church, so this is something that was up until 3105 02:40:14.239 --> 02:40:18.280 very recently. The Catholic doctrine. I reference Thomas Aquinas, I 3106 02:40:18.440 --> 02:40:22.159 reference Gration. Sam is a heretic. He's throwing all of 3107 02:40:22.239 --> 02:40:26.520 the Catholic Church bus. He's throwing Canon law under the bus. 3108 02:40:26.639 --> 02:40:29.399 And Jay refuses to say that these are all pedophiles. 3109 02:40:29.639 --> 02:40:33.479 Jay refuses to condemn Thomas Aquinas as a pedophile. That's shocking. 3110 02:40:33.520 --> 02:40:36.680 I hope all the Christian listeners, especially the Protestants listening, 3111 02:40:37.040 --> 02:40:40.200 note that these heretics, Sam and Jay are down with 3112 02:40:40.280 --> 02:40:41.879 pedophilia all right. 3113 02:40:44.239 --> 02:40:46.639 So I explicitly said I don't have a problem condemning you, Aquinas, 3114 02:40:46.680 --> 02:40:48.079 so you just BLUETI. 3115 02:40:47.840 --> 02:40:49.159 As a pedophile. As a pedophile? 3116 02:40:49.200 --> 02:40:51.159 Answer, Yeah, do we answer? 3117 02:40:51.239 --> 02:40:52.200 Do we ask a question? Now? 3118 02:40:52.840 --> 02:40:56.159 Well, he asked you guys a question. You guys gave 3119 02:40:56.200 --> 02:40:57.159 a very lengthy answer. 3120 02:40:58.200 --> 02:40:58.719 So it is. 3121 02:40:59.280 --> 02:41:01.559 It is on team Christianity here. I'll let them he 3122 02:41:01.680 --> 02:41:03.159 the last time because we're way over time here, and 3123 02:41:03.239 --> 02:41:04.040 I know you have. 3124 02:41:04.079 --> 02:41:05.760 To because of the time. 3125 02:41:05.879 --> 02:41:08.479 Yeah, I'll let you guys, Daniel better. 3126 02:41:08.600 --> 02:41:10.680 I know you're going to embarrass yourself. You just destroyed 3127 02:41:10.680 --> 02:41:12.959 your prophet again because if you read the Old Testament, 3128 02:41:13.120 --> 02:41:15.719 God didn't stop at Sennai. And you're concusing me and 3129 02:41:15.760 --> 02:41:17.280 not reading the Bible. I think you want to be 3130 02:41:17.319 --> 02:41:20.000 an Umi like your prophet. Continue reading the rest of 3131 02:41:20.000 --> 02:41:23.479 the Old Testament. God kept sending prophets with miracles and 3132 02:41:23.600 --> 02:41:28.399 signs to keep ratifying and confirming his existence and that 3133 02:41:28.559 --> 02:41:30.000 this is his law and he has a right to 3134 02:41:30.079 --> 02:41:32.440 put to death whenever he wants. Because in one King's 3135 02:41:32.479 --> 02:41:36.239 eighteen Elijah had a show down with your spiritual ancestors 3136 02:41:36.280 --> 02:41:39.000 because your God will love the chron is bail and 3137 02:41:39.159 --> 02:41:41.840 there God showed up miraculously that your God is fake 3138 02:41:42.000 --> 02:41:45.559 and Yahweh is true. So no, I am consistent with 3139 02:41:45.600 --> 02:41:49.399 the Old Testament narrative. All throughout God shows up miraculously 3140 02:41:49.559 --> 02:41:52.559 through prophets to confirm I am God. This is my convenant. 3141 02:41:52.600 --> 02:41:54.000 I have a right to do with you as I 3142 02:41:54.079 --> 02:41:57.360 see fit. Nothing for your prophet, the prophet of bail, 3143 02:41:57.879 --> 02:41:59.879 because your God is a fake God, and the God 3144 02:42:00.000 --> 02:42:02.280 revealed in Jesus is the true God. End up story, 3145 02:42:02.719 --> 02:42:04.040 Bye bye, you lost. 3146 02:42:05.399 --> 02:42:08.559 You saw you saw a miracle, therefore kill the adulter. Oh, 3147 02:42:08.639 --> 02:42:11.040 you saw a miracle, therefore kill the homos. Yeah, that's 3148 02:42:11.079 --> 02:42:13.399 that makes sense. That's real, great morality there. 3149 02:42:14.360 --> 02:42:16.280 I got two questions for the Muslims here, I think 3150 02:42:16.319 --> 02:42:19.000 from the supporters here real quick, and then we'll close 3151 02:42:19.040 --> 02:42:20.239 this thing out. But then you guy, you guys, that 3152 02:42:20.360 --> 02:42:24.200 was a fantastic debate. By the way, I was taking 3153 02:42:24.200 --> 02:42:26.000 a whole bunch of notes. I learned a bunch of myself. 3154 02:42:27.120 --> 02:42:29.719 I was learning a bunch because I'm not the most 3155 02:42:29.719 --> 02:42:31.719 religious guy. So it was great to see both perspectives here. 3156 02:42:32.920 --> 02:42:37.319 Razor Sharp one thirty five says, uh, it's a tts okay. 3157 02:42:37.360 --> 02:42:38.479 I just came in all right, So we'll let this 3158 02:42:38.559 --> 02:42:39.959 play it's actually talk to speech here. 3159 02:42:40.000 --> 02:42:44.079 It's Sam's just curious here, how is sin defined in 3160 02:42:44.280 --> 02:42:45.719 Islam and in Christianity? 3161 02:42:46.799 --> 02:42:47.680 To say it this way? 3162 02:42:48.040 --> 02:42:50.959 Well, she is sin in Islam and in Christianity. 3163 02:42:51.079 --> 02:42:53.239 All right, so I'll let each team just give their 3164 02:42:53.440 --> 02:42:54.399 quick definition of it. 3165 02:42:55.639 --> 02:42:57.440 Yeah, you want to answer, Jay or. 3166 02:42:59.159 --> 02:43:01.040 We would just say that any sin is just simply 3167 02:43:01.120 --> 02:43:03.760 a moral move of the will against the good, away 3168 02:43:03.760 --> 02:43:05.280 from the good against goslaw. That's it. 3169 02:43:05.719 --> 02:43:10.040 Ain't that for Islam? Or do you guys agree with 3170 02:43:10.120 --> 02:43:10.799 that definition? 3171 02:43:11.840 --> 02:43:14.360 Yeah? I mean that's a similar definition like God sends 3172 02:43:14.440 --> 02:43:17.159 a law and then if you disobey it, it doesn't matter. 3173 02:43:17.319 --> 02:43:19.200 You have to see a miracle to obey the law. 3174 02:43:19.319 --> 02:43:21.360 Like God sends the law. If you disobey it, then 3175 02:43:21.440 --> 02:43:24.719 that's a sin, and then you can ask for forgiveness 3176 02:43:24.799 --> 02:43:26.159 and God will forgive your sins. 3177 02:43:26.559 --> 02:43:30.040 All right? What else do we got here? Danny Danis says, 3178 02:43:30.319 --> 02:43:34.000 is it soon not to get ridden by naked dark 3179 02:43:34.159 --> 02:43:37.760 gin like Mohammad did? Question for Jiz and Homo and 3180 02:43:37.920 --> 02:43:38.399 Daniel the. 3181 02:43:39.159 --> 02:43:40.239 Rough all right? 3182 02:43:40.719 --> 02:43:42.920 Raging, Yeah they're raging. Yeah, I think I got under 3183 02:43:42.959 --> 02:43:43.319 their skin. 3184 02:43:43.639 --> 02:43:47.159 Islam only says forty two eleven in the Quran makes 3185 02:43:47.200 --> 02:43:49.479 it pretty clear that a lot having body parts is 3186 02:43:49.559 --> 02:43:53.920 to be taken figuratively. Okay, this thing is like split 3187 02:43:54.000 --> 02:43:56.559 down the middle with people that support you know I 3188 02:43:56.799 --> 02:44:01.280 both either or the religious aristotles. Question for our Team Islam, 3189 02:44:01.360 --> 02:44:05.040 is the crowd created or uncreated? Answer without committing shirk, 3190 02:44:05.600 --> 02:44:09.000 violating that weed, or violenting ten Zi, or making the 3191 02:44:09.120 --> 02:44:12.280 crowd unknowable. If you think this question is irrelevant, you 3192 02:44:12.399 --> 02:44:14.040 have no grounds to criticize the Trinity. 3193 02:44:15.200 --> 02:44:16.520 The Koranas uncreated? 3194 02:44:16.680 --> 02:44:17.719 We don't question for. 3195 02:44:17.840 --> 02:44:22.559 Team Islam, is the Quran created or uncreated? Answer without 3196 02:44:22.639 --> 02:44:27.920 commuting shirk, violating tar feed, or violating Tanzi, or making 3197 02:44:27.959 --> 02:44:31.680 the Quran unknowable. If you think this question is irrelevant, 3198 02:44:32.120 --> 02:44:34.520 you have no grounds to criticize the Trinity. 3199 02:44:35.319 --> 02:44:38.319 Well you were answering her. Sorry, go ahead, brother. 3200 02:44:42.399 --> 02:44:44.399 The Korana is uncreated. We don't dispute this. 3201 02:44:44.559 --> 02:44:46.479 We don't doubt claim. 3202 02:44:47.120 --> 02:44:50.799 The claim was that the Trinity is incoherent because there 3203 02:44:50.840 --> 02:44:53.840 are multiple minds. That was our critique. That's why this 3204 02:44:54.079 --> 02:44:57.280 is either polytheism or it's incoherent. The Quran isn't created, 3205 02:44:57.319 --> 02:45:00.239 but it doesn't The Quran doesn't have a mind. Is 3206 02:45:00.280 --> 02:45:02.680 not a person. No one has claimed this, but people 3207 02:45:02.760 --> 02:45:06.440 do claim. Christian theologians do claim that Jesus has a mind. 3208 02:45:06.520 --> 02:45:09.360 Isn't the same mind as the fathers and the Holy spirits. 3209 02:45:09.399 --> 02:45:12.159 There's a debate. There's not no clarity in the Christian 3210 02:45:12.239 --> 02:45:15.360 tradition because it's a contradiction, that's why. But we don't 3211 02:45:15.399 --> 02:45:18.680 have the same problem in Islam. The Quran doesn't have 3212 02:45:18.760 --> 02:45:21.159 a mind. So how does it contradict monotheism? 3213 02:45:21.360 --> 02:45:22.280 No one could that. 3214 02:45:22.639 --> 02:45:25.000 No one could explain that. No one could explain that. 3215 02:45:26.520 --> 02:45:28.959 Because there's a debate, it's not clear. Would that mean 3216 02:45:29.040 --> 02:45:30.840 that because there's a debate in as long amongst all 3217 02:45:30.840 --> 02:45:32.559 the schools, none of it's clear. About the attributes. 3218 02:45:32.799 --> 02:45:38.360 No one debates about Islam having multiple gods having attributes, 3219 02:45:39.079 --> 02:45:42.520 that I have multiple attributes. That doesn't mean I'm multiple people. 3220 02:45:42.440 --> 02:45:43.680 Like is how is that? 3221 02:45:45.360 --> 02:45:46.639 How does that contradict? 3222 02:45:46.760 --> 02:45:47.000 Debate? 3223 02:45:48.040 --> 02:45:48.479 Explain? 3224 02:45:48.920 --> 02:45:50.760 You know, de blame, you know your debates. 3225 02:45:51.600 --> 02:45:53.440 I'm not saying that there are debates that there are 3226 02:45:53.479 --> 02:45:57.399 no debates in Islam. There are debates in this theology exactly. 3227 02:45:57.520 --> 02:45:59.399 So that was a bad argument. No, No, But there's 3228 02:45:59.479 --> 02:46:02.920 debate in Christianity about the nature of God. There isn't 3229 02:46:02.959 --> 02:46:05.920 that same debate about there's being three and one? What 3230 02:46:06.079 --> 02:46:09.159 is the difference between the Father and do they have 3231 02:46:09.319 --> 02:46:11.760 the same knowledge? Do they have the same will? Do 3232 02:46:11.879 --> 02:46:13.840 they have the same knowledge? Do they have the same will? 3233 02:46:13.920 --> 02:46:16.760 We don't have the same debate, Branson, We don't have 3234 02:46:16.920 --> 02:46:18.920 that same debate in Islam at that. 3235 02:46:21.920 --> 02:46:23.959 If there's debate that's not clear, that's a fallacy. You're 3236 02:46:23.959 --> 02:46:24.840 a fallacy machine. 3237 02:46:25.360 --> 02:46:28.000 No, that's not what I said. Actually, so you don't 3238 02:46:28.000 --> 02:46:29.399 follow the argument, that's the problem. 3239 02:46:29.639 --> 02:46:32.079 All right, I'll fly through these real quick and close out. 3240 02:46:32.360 --> 02:46:35.840 Chris Procession says, Hi, Sam, it's bored, Cody, I have 3241 02:46:35.920 --> 02:46:39.559 a question for a jazz You're citing scholars approve reliability, 3242 02:46:39.920 --> 02:46:45.000 but plenty of scholars met Sir Gerdison Joy to see. 3243 02:46:45.120 --> 02:46:49.239 Rayner Raisner says the anti traces to actual words of Jesus. 3244 02:46:49.280 --> 02:46:51.479 What scholar says, cron traces actual Jesus. 3245 02:46:52.719 --> 02:46:54.760 Do you want me to answer this? It's quite simple. Sure, 3246 02:46:56.159 --> 02:46:58.079 So scholars do not say it traces back to the 3247 02:46:58.239 --> 02:47:01.239 very words of Jesus said. It goes back to the 3248 02:47:01.399 --> 02:47:04.040 ideas about what Jesus could have said. It's called the 3249 02:47:04.120 --> 02:47:07.360 epistem of Vox. So what Jesus could have said, there 3250 02:47:07.479 --> 02:47:10.200 is no way to determine that Jesus actually said anything 3251 02:47:10.559 --> 02:47:13.000 that is claimed in the New Testament, and between the 3252 02:47:13.079 --> 02:47:16.319 Gospels themselves, they're not datable to the first century, see, 3253 02:47:16.719 --> 02:47:19.360 which is the big problem. We can largely assume that 3254 02:47:19.399 --> 02:47:22.159 they're from the second century onwards, as Sam claimed in 3255 02:47:22.280 --> 02:47:25.959 his interview with Chattiscoa. I think was the name or yeah, 3256 02:47:26.559 --> 02:47:28.840 just to be clear. As for the Quran, however, they 3257 02:47:28.920 --> 02:47:31.760 don't have to guess because the manuscripts of it in 3258 02:47:31.840 --> 02:47:34.120 the light time of the perfect Peace per Oponem. But 3259 02:47:34.280 --> 02:47:38.159 the manuscripts aside, they have inscriptions. But the inscriptions aside, 3260 02:47:38.479 --> 02:47:41.840 we have other geographical data that is widespread enough to 3261 02:47:42.200 --> 02:47:45.040 definitively prove that the Quran as we have it today 3262 02:47:45.399 --> 02:47:47.440 is from the light time of the profect Peace Perponem 3263 02:47:47.639 --> 02:47:50.159 and his companions. We call this, just to be clear, 3264 02:47:50.200 --> 02:47:53.079 and archetypal text. This is what we accept as Muslims. 3265 02:47:53.680 --> 02:47:56.600 But for Christians there is no such thing. I would 3266 02:47:56.760 --> 02:47:58.959 like some or j. Toy really point out that the 3267 02:47:59.040 --> 02:48:01.680 Bible as they have it, the scholars refer to it 3268 02:48:01.799 --> 02:48:06.680 as a voltage or a hypothetical reconstruction. It's not actually 3269 02:48:06.760 --> 02:48:09.600 the word of God when you see it mentions that 3270 02:48:10.239 --> 02:48:13.399 every word, every word in scripture is God readed. They 3271 02:48:13.399 --> 02:48:16.200 should amended to stay. It may be God readed, but 3272 02:48:16.399 --> 02:48:19.200 we can't actually know. I mean, for goodness sake, Jesus 3273 02:48:19.239 --> 02:48:20.040 got God's name wrong. 3274 02:48:20.680 --> 02:48:23.000 Can I respond to him because he brought a question 3275 02:48:23.040 --> 02:48:23.319 for us? 3276 02:48:24.000 --> 02:48:26.159 Yeah, I mean he was answering a question from one 3277 02:48:26.200 --> 02:48:26.879 of the chapter. 3278 02:48:27.680 --> 02:48:27.920 Answer. 3279 02:48:28.799 --> 02:48:30.639 I want to make sure everybody gets a fair say here, 3280 02:48:30.639 --> 02:48:32.200 because my thing is I want you guys to make it. 3281 02:48:32.239 --> 02:48:34.280 Put your ideas out there and let the Chat decide 3282 02:48:34.319 --> 02:48:36.799 who they thinks went. So go ahead please okay. 3283 02:48:36.879 --> 02:48:39.399 Now number one again, because he doesn't know much how. 3284 02:48:39.360 --> 02:48:42.200 We got them to do responses to this chapter. We 3285 02:48:42.280 --> 02:48:43.000 didn't agree on that. 3286 02:48:43.799 --> 02:48:45.399 Well, I mean you answered the chat and then he 3287 02:48:45.479 --> 02:48:47.159 wants to give his perspectives. 3288 02:48:47.280 --> 02:48:51.399 You asked answer, Let him respond, and then we can 3289 02:48:51.479 --> 02:48:52.040 respond to that. 3290 02:48:52.639 --> 02:48:57.280 Okay if you response number one, okay, when he talks 3291 02:48:57.280 --> 02:49:00.360 about it, some of oxy some of Verba. Now he 3292 02:49:00.479 --> 02:49:02.920 just destroyed the Koran. Even worse because when we come 3293 02:49:03.040 --> 02:49:05.719 to the case of the Gospels, no Christian denies that 3294 02:49:05.840 --> 02:49:08.479 human authors were used to communicate the words of Jesus 3295 02:49:08.639 --> 02:49:11.159 in translation and Greek and God can do that, so 3296 02:49:11.360 --> 02:49:13.840 they're not going to quote exactly the same way in 3297 02:49:13.879 --> 02:49:16.479 the target language. But what he doesn't tell you, and 3298 02:49:16.559 --> 02:49:19.959 I did series on this, Allah, who's supposedly speaking the Koran, 3299 02:49:20.280 --> 02:49:24.239 will repeat the same story with the same speech, whether 3300 02:49:24.399 --> 02:49:28.840 Moses and the Egyptians or Chapan Ebliez and Allah or 3301 02:49:28.840 --> 02:49:31.399 a lot, and he cannot get the details in the 3302 02:49:31.520 --> 02:49:35.399 exact same way. He'll quote the same speeches and often 3303 02:49:35.840 --> 02:49:40.600 various conflicting, contradictory reporting. So the churn itself is one 3304 02:49:40.719 --> 02:49:44.280 huge ipsissima vox, which is surprising because I thought Allah 3305 02:49:44.319 --> 02:49:47.920 speaking and Allah knows everything and recalls speeches perfectly. So 3306 02:49:48.079 --> 02:49:50.319 much for Allah and him being all knowing. And then 3307 02:49:50.360 --> 02:49:52.639 if we extend that to the Hadith, your own scholars 3308 02:49:52.719 --> 02:49:55.840 admit that when it comes to even your authentic traditions, 3309 02:49:56.200 --> 02:49:59.239 you have i seima vox of your prophet, not ep 3310 02:49:59.319 --> 02:50:04.120 sees some of Verba. Moreover, if the Bible is not preserved, 3311 02:50:04.319 --> 02:50:07.479 you prove Mohammed is an antichrist because he confirmed all 3312 02:50:07.559 --> 02:50:11.360 the scriptures. He didn't make any fuss about the variant readings. 3313 02:50:11.719 --> 02:50:13.639 Because if he did, he would end up bearing your 3314 02:50:13.680 --> 02:50:15.920 Koran because he admit that the Koran did not come 3315 02:50:16.000 --> 02:50:18.719 down in one mode. Aharuf, with your scholars till this 3316 02:50:18.840 --> 02:50:21.399 day don't even know what that means. That's why I 3317 02:50:21.440 --> 02:50:25.000 have over thirty five opinions about what the aharu are, 3318 02:50:25.559 --> 02:50:28.760 which means, if you're consistent, you just destroyed the Koran. 3319 02:50:28.920 --> 02:50:31.520 You destroyed your prophet, you destroyed your God. Stop being 3320 02:50:31.559 --> 02:50:33.000 a Muslim, joined Barber Madam. 3321 02:50:33.159 --> 02:50:35.600 So I could just respond to this quickly. I mean, 3322 02:50:35.680 --> 02:50:38.120 the Bible affirms that the prophet Muhammad is a true 3323 02:50:38.159 --> 02:50:42.920 prophet in first John I'm reading it. Yes, it falls 3324 02:50:42.959 --> 02:50:46.159 on its fig but it says something's occasionallyvites brooken cluck 3325 02:50:46.200 --> 02:50:49.319 come the rights, brook looking cluck come, he write twice 3326 02:50:49.319 --> 02:50:52.760 a deep right. I don't deny that the Bible God 3327 02:50:52.840 --> 02:50:53.040 is one. 3328 02:50:55.840 --> 02:50:58.239 Yeah, yeah, job. 3329 02:50:59.559 --> 02:51:03.399 You never say we never made the claim that here. 3330 02:51:04.559 --> 02:51:06.079 So we can interrupt you. 3331 02:51:06.319 --> 02:51:08.479 We can interrupt you to you want, because. 3332 02:51:16.440 --> 02:51:18.920 Neither Daniel or I made the claim that all of 3333 02:51:19.000 --> 02:51:21.239 the Bible is for so wrong. It gets things right 3334 02:51:21.280 --> 02:51:25.879 that men, Jesus, Mother, Jesus, well, it gets advice when 3335 02:51:25.920 --> 02:51:28.719 God's wold agrees with it, not when it's allows genocide 3336 02:51:28.840 --> 02:51:29.440 in your case. 3337 02:51:29.680 --> 02:51:31.319 So that's what we have. 3338 02:51:32.079 --> 02:51:38.239 So you Jesus, Jesus, Mom's God. 3339 02:51:38.239 --> 02:51:41.280 And keep keep interrupting because you don't like the answer. 3340 02:51:41.639 --> 02:51:44.799 But let's be clear here that the Bible first joined 3341 02:51:44.799 --> 02:51:48.680 for two versus two and three. It mentions directly anyone 3342 02:51:48.920 --> 02:51:51.760 who testifies that Jesus is the Christ and that Jesus 3343 02:51:51.879 --> 02:51:54.000 came in the flesh. It's a true spirit from God. 3344 02:51:54.319 --> 02:51:55.760 So you may not have to like it, but your 3345 02:51:55.760 --> 02:52:01.000 Bible of films Muhammad, And secondly, secondly, you know genu Secondly, 3346 02:52:01.159 --> 02:52:04.079 secondly to be good because I it doesn't have to 3347 02:52:04.120 --> 02:52:05.719 be genuine for me as well as you believe in it. 3348 02:52:05.799 --> 02:52:09.280 It's for me to there's that point the Bible against you. 3349 02:52:09.760 --> 02:52:12.200 I can pre the Bible against you. I don't have 3350 02:52:12.319 --> 02:52:16.559 to assume to use it against you. It's not secular 3351 02:52:16.639 --> 02:52:19.319 reasoning because I'm not implying the consequence to becose. So 3352 02:52:19.479 --> 02:52:21.280 one more time, please try not to interrupt. And then 3353 02:52:21.319 --> 02:52:23.760 you don't like the answer. Secondly, you made the claim 3354 02:52:24.040 --> 02:52:26.760 that the prophet Peace be upon him committed rape. We 3355 02:52:26.879 --> 02:52:28.760 asked you to show where he did so, and you 3356 02:52:28.879 --> 02:52:31.200 could not. On the upper hand. On the other hand, 3357 02:52:31.280 --> 02:52:34.559 I showed you were Jesus with Jesus the Christ, the 3358 02:52:34.760 --> 02:52:38.280 firms that whatever the Pharisees tell you, do it, it's 3359 02:52:38.319 --> 02:52:42.639 just not your Chapter twenty three the hypocrites sys the hypocrites. 3360 02:52:42.680 --> 02:52:45.079 But he also says obear them or bear them. We 3361 02:52:45.200 --> 02:52:48.760 know that, and the committed genocide. I don't need to 3362 02:52:48.879 --> 02:52:52.600 I quote exactly what I want. Thirdly, Thirdly, thirdly, you 3363 02:52:52.719 --> 02:52:55.040 made the claim. You made the claim that Jesus never 3364 02:52:55.120 --> 02:52:58.239 affirmed anything extreme. But if you believe he affirmed the 3365 02:52:58.280 --> 02:53:03.000 Old Testament, he affirmed the crimes to rapes, the genie babies. 3366 02:53:04.280 --> 02:53:06.079 Yeah, that's killing babies. 3367 02:53:07.479 --> 02:53:07.600 Them. 3368 02:53:08.440 --> 02:53:10.840 He's thank Moses to do that, So thank you. 3369 02:53:10.920 --> 02:53:14.159 Don't believe that and never says that your assumption. 3370 02:53:15.360 --> 02:53:16.280 Confirm the flood. 3371 02:53:17.479 --> 02:53:20.520 I said the genocide that some wants to believe in. 3372 02:53:20.840 --> 02:53:23.040 The difference between the Bible and the difference between the 3373 02:53:23.120 --> 02:53:29.200 Bible and the or on, Yeah, the flood happens. There's 3374 02:53:29.280 --> 02:53:32.479 different than the Bible. The Bible says the soldiers animal, 3375 02:53:32.719 --> 02:53:36.120 Jesus says. Jesus says, the soldiers go kill those babies. 3376 02:53:36.239 --> 02:53:40.079 That's what Jesus says. There's nothing like that Jesus says. 3377 02:53:40.120 --> 02:53:43.840 When Jesus says, Jesus says, go and kill Jesus says, 3378 02:53:43.959 --> 02:53:48.120 go and kill those babies, don't leave anything that. Take 3379 02:53:48.200 --> 02:53:51.799 their women as captives. Go take the the girls with 3380 02:53:51.920 --> 02:53:58.719 any man, the girl the girls who haven't slept with 3381 02:53:58.840 --> 02:54:01.319 any man. Makes them as your captives and shave their 3382 02:54:01.360 --> 02:54:04.879 heads and humiliate though. Okay, we didn't deny the flood. 3383 02:54:04.959 --> 02:54:08.120 We didn't deny that. Just pointing out that's a stupid argument. 3384 02:54:08.719 --> 02:54:11.079 It's a stupid no. It's it is a big difference. 3385 02:54:14.239 --> 02:54:16.440 God want order people. 3386 02:54:16.200 --> 02:54:17.719 To uncreated things. 3387 02:54:17.879 --> 02:54:22.799 Nice to be clear, do uncreated things communicable attributes with 3388 02:54:22.920 --> 02:54:25.200 created things? Sich that we can have knowledge of them. 3389 02:54:27.040 --> 02:54:27.239 Question. 3390 02:54:27.319 --> 02:54:30.639 So okay, So it's it's I think it was a chat. Okay, 3391 02:54:30.719 --> 02:54:32.440 this on I'm gonna do. I think Dan, you got 3392 02:54:32.479 --> 02:54:34.520 to say what you want to say about talking about 3393 02:54:34.559 --> 02:54:37.639 what Jesus had had done. Sam, I'll let you respond because. 3394 02:54:37.399 --> 02:54:39.479 You were trying to I didn't get to finish my point. 3395 02:54:39.760 --> 02:54:41.879 Interrupted finished finish your point, and then it goes to 3396 02:54:41.959 --> 02:54:43.959 Sam and then Jay and then we'll finish off on this. 3397 02:54:44.479 --> 02:54:47.879 There's a difference between God sending pestilence or God like 3398 02:54:48.000 --> 02:54:51.520 sending a catastrophe to punish a people. That's a that 3399 02:54:51.760 --> 02:54:54.719 is a natural disaster that God commands. That's different from 3400 02:54:54.760 --> 02:54:57.799 what the Bible says. The Bible Jesus is telling Moses 3401 02:54:58.239 --> 02:55:02.200 go and kill the women, children and leave nothing that breathes. 3402 02:55:02.639 --> 02:55:05.760 That is a command to people, to soldiers to yog 3403 02:55:06.040 --> 02:55:08.959 and actually commit that. And the interpreters of the Bible, 3404 02:55:09.040 --> 02:55:13.520 including the Christians, took those verses to justify their genocidal 3405 02:55:13.639 --> 02:55:17.520 programs in the Roman Empire, in the Byzantine Empire, all 3406 02:55:17.559 --> 02:55:20.280 the way to the colonial period. They use these versus 3407 02:55:20.440 --> 02:55:23.520 the Bible. Israel today, they're using these verses of the 3408 02:55:23.600 --> 02:55:26.360 Bible to justify their genocide throughout history. 3409 02:55:26.680 --> 02:55:29.120 Now you have Orthodox Church as well, the Russian or 3410 02:55:29.200 --> 02:55:32.280 the Church uses the verses to justify the murders and 3411 02:55:32.360 --> 02:55:32.920 Ukraine as well. 3412 02:55:33.000 --> 02:55:35.959 Yeah, Muslims don't say, oh, we can go chill kill 3413 02:55:36.040 --> 02:55:39.559 babies because there was Noah's flood. Like, no one Muslim 3414 02:55:39.600 --> 02:55:42.399 has had this interpretation. But that's the difference between the 3415 02:55:42.440 --> 02:55:43.239 Bible and the churn. 3416 02:55:43.479 --> 02:55:44.920 Let me go to Sam and Jay so they can 3417 02:55:45.600 --> 02:55:48.959 respond and then we'll finish this topic. Yeah, go ahead, Sam, 3418 02:55:49.040 --> 02:55:50.120 I know you're trying to say some. 3419 02:55:52.719 --> 02:55:53.319 Do we lose them? 3420 02:55:53.920 --> 02:55:56.079 Is he muted? He's muted? Sam? 3421 02:55:56.159 --> 02:55:56.719 Are you muted? 3422 02:55:57.600 --> 02:55:59.879 Yeah? You can out mute yourself, Samm. We'll try to. Yeah, 3423 02:56:00.559 --> 02:56:01.239 all right, we'll all go. 3424 02:56:01.319 --> 02:56:03.239 Well ahead, go ahead, you ready or read me to 3425 02:56:03.239 --> 02:56:05.559 go for you get the last word, Jay, let's go ahead. Okay, 3426 02:56:05.879 --> 02:56:08.559 all right. I know you guys have a hard time hearing, 3427 02:56:08.760 --> 02:56:12.120 because let me repeat again what you fail to address adequately. 3428 02:56:13.159 --> 02:56:15.399 You just prove Jesus as a love Mohammed's God, and judge, 3429 02:56:15.479 --> 02:56:16.719 let me repeat they again. 3430 02:56:16.840 --> 02:56:18.719 Everything we said proves that apparently so well. 3431 02:56:18.840 --> 02:56:22.879 Chapter two, verse forty six to fifty one. Read Chapter two, 3432 02:56:22.959 --> 02:56:25.440 verse two forty six two fifty one. Read Chapter five, 3433 02:56:25.520 --> 02:56:29.120 verse twenty to twenty six. Jesus, you're a lah Mohammed's 3434 02:56:29.159 --> 02:56:30.959 God who gave him the Koran, and you corrupted it. 3435 02:56:31.479 --> 02:56:34.079 He's the one who ordered what Moses and Joshua and 3436 02:56:34.280 --> 02:56:37.520 Saul did. And there's nothing in these passages that say 3437 02:56:38.159 --> 02:56:38.600 that when you. 3438 02:56:38.719 --> 02:56:39.559 Go ahead this. 3439 02:56:41.159 --> 02:56:51.399 That yours read the Koran. 3440 02:56:52.319 --> 02:56:53.479 Let me speak, stop following, let me. 3441 02:56:53.479 --> 02:56:59.600 Read read and I read an. 3442 02:56:58.000 --> 02:56:59.520 I know you're about to recite the Koran, and from 3443 02:56:59.639 --> 02:57:00.120 let me read. 3444 02:57:04.399 --> 02:57:05.000 Let him speak. 3445 02:57:05.040 --> 02:57:12.079 I'll read both. He's they won't let me finish their manifest. 3446 02:57:13.840 --> 02:57:14.920 You guys, yeah. 3447 02:57:15.200 --> 02:57:20.079 SIBHATI, Volume four, number three fifty three narrated Abah. The 3448 02:57:20.120 --> 02:57:22.760 prophet said, a prophet amongst the prophets carried out a 3449 02:57:22.879 --> 02:57:26.440 holy military expedition. So he said to his followers, anyone 3450 02:57:26.479 --> 02:57:29.239 who has married a woman wants to consummate the marriage 3451 02:57:29.360 --> 02:57:32.200 and has not done so yet, should not accompany me. 3452 02:57:32.440 --> 02:57:34.760 Nor should a man who has built a house but 3453 02:57:34.959 --> 02:57:38.559 has not completed through, nor a man who is sheep 3454 02:57:38.719 --> 02:57:40.479 or she camels and is waiting for the birth of 3455 02:57:40.520 --> 02:57:43.319 their young ones. So the prophet carried out the expedition, 3456 02:57:43.520 --> 02:57:45.879 and when he reached that town at the time or 3457 02:57:45.959 --> 02:57:48.440 nearly at the time of the act prayer, he said 3458 02:57:48.440 --> 02:57:51.280 to the son, O, son, you're under Allah's order, and 3459 02:57:51.360 --> 02:57:54.879 I'm under Allah's order. Oh Allah, stop the sun from sitting. 3460 02:57:55.120 --> 02:57:58.159 It was stopped till Allah made him victorious. Then he 3461 02:57:58.239 --> 02:58:00.440 collected the booty, and the fire came to burn it, 3462 02:58:00.760 --> 02:58:02.600 but it did not burn it. He said to the men, 3463 02:58:02.719 --> 02:58:05.399 some of you have stolen something from the booty. So 3464 02:58:05.600 --> 02:58:07.680 one man from every tribe should give me a pledge 3465 02:58:07.799 --> 02:58:10.760 of allegiance by shaking hands with me. They did so, 3466 02:58:11.040 --> 02:58:13.600 and the hand of a man got stuck over the 3467 02:58:13.680 --> 02:58:16.399 hand of their profit. Then that prophet said to the man, 3468 02:58:16.879 --> 02:58:19.159 the theft has been committed by your people, so all 3469 02:58:19.200 --> 02:58:21.079 the persons of your tribe should give me the pledge 3470 02:58:21.120 --> 02:58:23.520 of allegiance by shaking hands with him. The hands of 3471 02:58:23.600 --> 02:58:25.399 two or three men got stuck over the hand of 3472 02:58:25.440 --> 02:58:28.040 their prophet. He said, you have committed the theft. Then 3473 02:58:28.040 --> 02:58:30.120 they brought a head of gold, like the head of 3474 02:58:30.159 --> 02:58:31.719 a cow and put it there, and the fire came 3475 02:58:31.760 --> 02:58:34.399 and consume the body. The prophet added, then Allah sorrow, 3476 02:58:34.440 --> 02:58:38.479 weakness and disability, so he made booty legal for us. Here, Sahibukati, 3477 02:58:39.200 --> 02:58:43.079 your profit confirms dur on me twenty verses one to nine, 3478 02:58:43.159 --> 02:58:45.760 which you just attacked earlier, meaning you're better than your prophet. 3479 02:58:46.040 --> 02:58:46.920 I didn't get the murder. 3480 02:58:47.920 --> 02:58:49.079 Don't interrupt me, Boddy. 3481 02:58:50.000 --> 02:58:51.120 Where's the murder of the rape? 3482 02:58:53.239 --> 02:58:53.719 Where was that? 3483 02:58:54.719 --> 02:59:01.600 You didn't say any of that yet when he goes, yeah, why. 3484 02:59:04.040 --> 02:59:07.079 I got to destroyed destroy gad. 3485 02:59:07.280 --> 02:59:09.520 Yeah, all right, Jake, finish, finish up here, and then 3486 02:59:09.559 --> 02:59:12.120 when we want to the next topic, and then Dan, 3487 02:59:12.159 --> 02:59:13.559 I know you said, you have to go right at 3488 02:59:13.639 --> 02:59:14.079 eight thirty. 3489 02:59:14.120 --> 02:59:16.719 You have to pray. Yeah, I have to pray pre soon. 3490 02:59:16.799 --> 02:59:19.840 So okay, are we finishing up, finishing up? Yeah, we 3491 02:59:19.920 --> 02:59:22.440 are finishing up here. Okay, go ahead, Jay. 3492 02:59:23.760 --> 02:59:25.120 No, Sam, you can finish that point. 3493 02:59:25.200 --> 02:59:26.639 You can take the rest of Oh, they're going to 3494 02:59:26.719 --> 02:59:28.879 manifest because it's time for prayer. So let's see if 3495 02:59:28.879 --> 02:59:31.680 they can control themselves. Okay, guys, did you hear me 3496 02:59:31.799 --> 02:59:37.120 read Nothing in the context makes any any exceptions Mohammed's 3497 02:59:37.159 --> 02:59:41.280 confirming these stories as fund in the Bible. Nothing in 3498 02:59:41.360 --> 02:59:45.040 the context says that Joshua was told all but spare 3499 02:59:45.159 --> 02:59:48.440 women and children. They have to read it because they 3500 02:59:48.520 --> 02:59:54.639 got humiliated. So please keep keep manifesto. 3501 02:59:58.879 --> 03:00:01.079 Just let them finish. Limb finished, and then we'll make 3502 03:00:01.120 --> 03:00:01.600 your points. 3503 03:00:01.840 --> 03:00:04.040 So now the burnup proof is on Daniel before he 3504 03:00:04.120 --> 03:00:07.360 goes and praise to Bab. Show me in these passages 3505 03:00:07.440 --> 03:00:11.879 and sorted the five twenty to twenty six, two two 3506 03:00:11.959 --> 03:00:13.360 forty six to two fifty. 3507 03:00:13.120 --> 03:00:18.559 One and this, and I can again let him finish. 3508 03:00:18.760 --> 03:00:21.840 Just show me man to follow the son of your prophet. 3509 03:00:22.120 --> 03:00:26.719 So now, Jesus, in those passages your prophets said that 3510 03:00:27.040 --> 03:00:31.200 when Allah sent Musa and Joshua that he gave them 3511 03:00:31.319 --> 03:00:34.600 the orders spare the women and children, because he quotes 3512 03:00:34.680 --> 03:00:37.799 them as is, and he confirms the Torah in his possession. 3513 03:00:38.239 --> 03:00:41.280 So now go ahead condemn your prophet. Christ wins, Muhammad 3514 03:00:41.280 --> 03:00:41.799 loses again. 3515 03:00:41.799 --> 03:00:45.879 Go ahead, are you done so? First of all, First 3516 03:00:45.920 --> 03:00:48.319 of all, you didn't show that the verses of the 3517 03:00:48.520 --> 03:00:52.600 Quran or the hadith are condoning rape and murder. That's 3518 03:00:52.639 --> 03:00:56.360 your first lie from as found in the Bible. We 3519 03:00:56.440 --> 03:00:59.840 read verses the Bible. We'll read it again. Jesus said 3520 03:00:59.840 --> 03:01:02.360 to Moses, have you let the women live? Now kill 3521 03:01:02.440 --> 03:01:05.120 every male among the little ones, and kill every woman, 3522 03:01:06.479 --> 03:01:09.120 every woman who has known man by lying with him. 3523 03:01:09.159 --> 03:01:12.559 So basically, save the virgins for yourself, that's what Jesus says. 3524 03:01:12.920 --> 03:01:15.319 And then you can force them to marry you, shave 3525 03:01:15.360 --> 03:01:17.719 their heads and humiliate them. This is what we're reading 3526 03:01:17.760 --> 03:01:21.159 from numbers. So this is like you didn't mention it 3527 03:01:21.200 --> 03:01:25.079 any rate. The Hadith that Hejazz read earlier says that 3528 03:01:25.200 --> 03:01:28.120 there's no killing of women and children. Why can't you 3529 03:01:28.200 --> 03:01:31.239 deal with that? We don't read one kadith and say that. 3530 03:01:32.760 --> 03:01:33.879 You let me do it. 3531 03:01:34.120 --> 03:01:36.360 See we didn't interrupt you, right, okay, good, No, you 3532 03:01:36.399 --> 03:01:37.879 actually had just it, so stop lying. 3533 03:01:38.000 --> 03:01:39.479 And we told him not to. I told him. 3534 03:01:39.760 --> 03:01:41.799 He kept doing it. He kept manifesting the moment. Albert, 3535 03:01:41.920 --> 03:01:43.079 you want me to give me a minute, Watch what 3536 03:01:43.120 --> 03:01:44.719 I do with number thirty one. I'll bury. 3537 03:01:46.479 --> 03:01:47.399 And say that's on my face. 3538 03:01:47.879 --> 03:01:50.200 Yeah, well, a little short guy like you, you need 3539 03:01:50.280 --> 03:01:50.879 Daniel to help you. 3540 03:01:52.959 --> 03:01:55.959 Guys see that this isn't gonna you guys are just 3541 03:01:56.000 --> 03:01:57.840 gonna keep going in a circle. It's fine. 3542 03:01:59.760 --> 03:02:05.120 Just the point was that there's no passage in the Oran. 3543 03:02:05.200 --> 03:02:08.239 There's no verse that condones genocide. Whereas we read the 3544 03:02:08.319 --> 03:02:11.719 explicit words of Jesus saying to go and kill the babies. 3545 03:02:12.000 --> 03:02:13.920 You can't. How are you coping with this? It's all 3546 03:02:14.040 --> 03:02:17.239 just a coke from Sam and it looks silly. So 3547 03:02:17.520 --> 03:02:19.440 this is you didn't quote anything. We quoted you the 3548 03:02:19.479 --> 03:02:21.680 hadith that says don't kill women and children. We don't 3549 03:02:21.719 --> 03:02:24.079 just take the qorm, we take the So when you 3550 03:02:24.600 --> 03:02:27.559 cite one hadith, you didn't show. You didn't show where 3551 03:02:27.600 --> 03:02:31.639 that hadith says kill women and children. You didn't show that. 3552 03:02:31.840 --> 03:02:34.959 Where does the hadith say kill women and children? Don't 3553 03:02:35.040 --> 03:02:38.120 just fill a buster and pretend we're not going to notice. 3554 03:02:38.479 --> 03:02:40.520 As you don't pretend we're not going to notice that 3555 03:02:40.719 --> 03:02:43.319 nothing that you read says kill women and children. I 3556 03:02:43.360 --> 03:02:45.799 don't where does it say, Where does it say where 3557 03:02:45.879 --> 03:02:47.559 does it say kill women and children? 3558 03:02:47.920 --> 03:02:48.120 Where? 3559 03:02:48.440 --> 03:02:49.520 Where does it take kill women? 3560 03:02:49.600 --> 03:02:52.559 And I answer you their question. I know you don't 3561 03:02:52.600 --> 03:02:54.479 know logic and you want to shift to burn a proof. 3562 03:02:55.120 --> 03:02:57.280 You quoted adith where your prophet said it. But there's 3563 03:02:57.360 --> 03:03:01.399 the same Hadith that says, but if women and children 3564 03:03:01.520 --> 03:03:04.559 are killed, they are of them. It's inside Muslim. I 3565 03:03:04.760 --> 03:03:07.920 mentioned it, but you in the chapter, Read the chapter, 3566 03:03:08.360 --> 03:03:09.680 Read the chapter. 3567 03:03:09.879 --> 03:03:16.079 Heaven says the chapter prohibition of killing women and children, 3568 03:03:16.200 --> 03:03:18.600 and it was not a permission to killing women and 3569 03:03:18.680 --> 03:03:20.479 child glory. 3570 03:03:21.440 --> 03:03:24.079 We're going to move on position. We're just gonna move on. 3571 03:03:24.159 --> 03:03:26.200 There's no question here for the for for team as well, 3572 03:03:27.040 --> 03:03:30.520 there's a question follow my team your life. You claim 3573 03:03:30.559 --> 03:03:37.360 the one the one that you assaulted, and let me 3574 03:03:37.479 --> 03:03:38.799 let me just read this. Let me just read this 3575 03:03:39.280 --> 03:03:41.079 a follow for team as loam. You claim the Qoran 3576 03:03:41.200 --> 03:03:43.719 was uncreated and uncreated things noble. To be clear, I 3577 03:03:43.799 --> 03:03:49.040 do uncreated things, share communic communicable attributes. Was created things 3578 03:03:49.239 --> 03:03:52.799 such that we can have knowledge of them. I think 3579 03:03:52.799 --> 03:03:54.959 that's that's a question for team as. I'll turn that 3580 03:03:55.040 --> 03:03:56.000 to a because he answered the. 3581 03:03:56.000 --> 03:04:00.120 First indicative, it's indicator. We can indicate things, but not 3582 03:04:00.200 --> 03:04:02.600 the exactly but not not the exact essence of them, 3583 03:04:02.840 --> 03:04:07.600 which is why establishes commentary. There is nothing absolutely like him, 3584 03:04:07.760 --> 03:04:10.959 but he can indicate knowledge which is familiar to us. Okay, 3585 03:04:11.040 --> 03:04:11.799 that's pretty much. 3586 03:04:11.719 --> 03:04:13.559 It fair enough, So what I'm gonna do is I'm 3587 03:04:13.600 --> 03:04:16.440 gonna uh And then last one here one question for Daniel. 3588 03:04:16.479 --> 03:04:18.879 If your prophet is a representation of what you should be, 3589 03:04:19.000 --> 03:04:23.520 why don't all Muslims have intercourse with nine year olds? 3590 03:04:23.520 --> 03:04:25.159 And why don't you allow your daughter to get married 3591 03:04:25.159 --> 03:04:26.879 when she is six? Do you want to address that? 3592 03:04:27.399 --> 03:04:28.040 Because there's this. 3593 03:04:28.760 --> 03:04:32.079 Yeah, absolutely, I have an entire debate with a Christian 3594 03:04:32.760 --> 03:04:36.920 on this opiy right, and well what sorry on the 3595 03:04:37.000 --> 03:04:38.719 asia if I'm not mistaken, right? The nine year old 3596 03:04:38.760 --> 03:04:41.280 is aglisha yeah, rug ala, I don't have the wife 3597 03:04:41.360 --> 03:04:43.040 of the prophet peace fee upon him. This is the 3598 03:04:43.159 --> 03:04:46.319 number one thing that Christians want to bring up against Islam. 3599 03:04:46.840 --> 03:04:49.280 And we pointed out in this debate that the Bible 3600 03:04:49.399 --> 03:04:53.399 has no problem with child marriage. The Church actually has 3601 03:04:53.479 --> 03:04:55.920 no problem with child marriage and actually endorses it with 3602 03:04:56.200 --> 03:04:59.719 twelve years old or younger. Canon law, gration endorses it. 3603 03:05:00.079 --> 03:05:03.120 And even Jay could not condemn Thomas Aquinas as a pedophile. 3604 03:05:03.239 --> 03:05:06.200 He condemns him, he condemns him, but he doesn't say 3605 03:05:06.239 --> 03:05:09.159 that he's a pedophile. So actually, within this debate, we've 3606 03:05:09.200 --> 03:05:13.920 seen plenty of resources within Christianity that child marriage is condoned, 3607 03:05:14.040 --> 03:05:16.840 it's accepted, and that's the Christian tradition. Now Christians want 3608 03:05:16.840 --> 03:05:19.799 to throw their entire Bible, their church tradition in the 3609 03:05:19.920 --> 03:05:23.200 trash go ahead. Muslims were consistent. We say that look, 3610 03:05:23.559 --> 03:05:26.200 marriage can happen at the age of puberty. When a 3611 03:05:26.520 --> 03:05:29.360 girl goes through puberty or a boy goes through purity puberty, 3612 03:05:29.399 --> 03:05:32.040 then they can get married. And that is what God 3613 03:05:32.120 --> 03:05:34.440 has allowed, and that's what every culture and religion has 3614 03:05:34.559 --> 03:05:37.479 practiced historically. It's only become a problem in modern times 3615 03:05:37.520 --> 03:05:40.879 because of modern educational system that requires you to go 3616 03:05:41.040 --> 03:05:43.440 through twelve years of education so you can become a 3617 03:05:43.879 --> 03:05:46.760 wage slave, go and work in the factories, go and 3618 03:05:46.840 --> 03:05:49.319 work for the industries. So they want to prevent you 3619 03:05:49.399 --> 03:05:52.440 from getting married younger as a teenager. Instead, they want 3620 03:05:52.479 --> 03:05:55.879 you to fornicate. They want little girls at nine years 3621 03:05:55.920 --> 03:05:57.959 old to fornicate with each other. And a lot of 3622 03:05:58.000 --> 03:06:00.280 these Christians, they don't have problems with their kids having 3623 03:06:00.280 --> 03:06:04.959 a girlfriend or boyfriend or experimenting with sex at age nine, ten, eleven, twelve. 3624 03:06:05.000 --> 03:06:08.319 That's happening rampant within Western society. All we hear is 3625 03:06:08.360 --> 03:06:12.360 about how Islam is pedophilic. Well, look at your own societies. 3626 03:06:12.600 --> 03:06:15.159 Marriage would be the solution to the amount of degeneracy 3627 03:06:15.239 --> 03:06:17.879 that unfortunately we see in the West. And maybe Jay 3628 03:06:17.879 --> 03:06:20.040 would agree with me, Maybe not Sam, but Jay would 3629 03:06:20.520 --> 03:06:23.040 might agree that marriage can be the solution for a 3630 03:06:23.079 --> 03:06:25.200 fifteen year old to get married, a fourteen year old 3631 03:06:25.239 --> 03:06:27.360 to get married. That was certainly the church's position. 3632 03:06:27.920 --> 03:06:32.399 Okay, anything else, all right, that was the last one. 3633 03:06:32.440 --> 03:06:34.159 So guys, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. 3634 03:06:34.200 --> 03:06:36.520 I want you, guys to all just kind of to 3635 03:06:36.639 --> 03:06:38.680 say where the people can find you, where they can 3636 03:06:38.840 --> 03:06:41.000 you know, get their get your content. If they're interested 3637 03:06:41.000 --> 03:06:43.840 in learning more about you, we'll turn it over to 3638 03:06:43.959 --> 03:06:44.559 we can start with you. 3639 03:06:44.639 --> 03:06:49.520 Jays go ahead, yeah, yes, Dawa and everywhere you go hes. 3640 03:06:49.319 --> 03:06:51.840 YouTube channel, guys, go check them out. Ef Dawa Okay, 3641 03:06:52.520 --> 03:06:53.319 what about you, Daniel. 3642 03:06:54.399 --> 03:06:57.200 Yeah, Muslim Skeptic that's the channel. You google it muslim 3643 03:06:57.200 --> 03:06:58.760 Skeptic with a K, and we have a lot of 3644 03:06:58.840 --> 03:07:03.120 debates playlists where I debate Christians, Jews, Hindus, atheists. So 3645 03:07:03.239 --> 03:07:05.120 you can check me out on muslim Skeptic. There's also 3646 03:07:05.200 --> 03:07:07.760 muslim Skeptic dot com with the website with a lot 3647 03:07:07.840 --> 03:07:08.799 of material as well. 3648 03:07:09.200 --> 03:07:12.920 Awesome, Sam, Oh you're mute it. 3649 03:07:12.959 --> 03:07:13.159 Sam. 3650 03:07:13.959 --> 03:07:15.479 You might have to unmute yourself. 3651 03:07:19.239 --> 03:07:19.399 Here. 3652 03:07:19.520 --> 03:07:21.239 Yeah, you have to just unmute yourself. Okay. 3653 03:07:22.920 --> 03:07:24.840 If you go to YouTube, it's shamuonion s h A 3654 03:07:25.200 --> 03:07:27.719 m o U N I A N. And also on 3655 03:07:27.879 --> 03:07:30.360 Rumble it's Answering Islam, and I have answering a Slam 3656 03:07:30.440 --> 03:07:33.399 blog dot org, press dot com. I try to stream daily, 3657 03:07:33.920 --> 03:07:36.159 so Lord Lank, you can find me there and you 3658 03:07:36.200 --> 03:07:38.159 can find the articles and all the material we use 3659 03:07:38.239 --> 03:07:39.959 there as well as an answering is slum dot info, 3660 03:07:40.040 --> 03:07:40.959 so that's where you can find me. 3661 03:07:41.559 --> 03:07:45.680 Awesome, Jay, Yeah, Jayson alsos dot com. You can find 3662 03:07:45.719 --> 03:07:48.000 me on all the socials under my name Jadi, or 3663 03:07:48.040 --> 03:07:50.399 you can also find me every Friday hosting the Alex 3664 03:07:50.520 --> 03:07:51.120 Jones Show. 3665 03:07:51.600 --> 03:07:54.760 All Right Awesome on Info Wars. Uh guys, Uh, I 3666 03:07:54.760 --> 03:07:56.600 hope you guys enjoined the debate. Man, we'll probably host 3667 03:07:56.639 --> 03:07:59.159 something like this maybe in the future. You know, got 3668 03:07:59.200 --> 03:08:01.200 a little personal there times, but the guys still remained 3669 03:08:01.239 --> 03:08:03.280 extremely professional, which I thank you guys for that. Thank 3670 03:08:03.280 --> 03:08:05.319 you guys so much. It was great to have you guys. Guys, 3671 03:08:05.360 --> 03:08:07.559 go please go follow them, go check them out. We'll 3672 03:08:07.600 --> 03:08:10.639 be back here with some lovely ladies in about forty 3673 03:08:10.760 --> 03:08:13.200 five minutes. In about an hour, we'll have some after hours. 3674 03:08:13.239 --> 03:08:15.120 It won't be as kosher as this debate was here, 3675 03:08:15.440 --> 03:08:17.920 so we'll catch you guys. Thank you guys so much 3676 03:08:17.920 --> 03:08:19.479 for coming on the podcast. Great to have you guys. 3677 03:08:19.639 --> 03:08:19.879 Peace.