Speaker 1: Welcome to the Paranormal Pendul podcast, coming to you from
the heart of Pendle Witch Country in the northwest of England.
My name is Craig Bryant, author, the investigator and collector
of stories. Join me as we take a journey into
the paranorial UFO sightings, cryptozoology and bigcats. This is the
Paranorial Pendal Podcast. Hey, welcome to episode fifty two of
Paranormal Pendl, broadcast into the Paranorial UK network at pau
radio dot com.
Speaker 2: So I'm delighted to have my guest on this episode.
It's the Reverend Alison Dunlop Shanes, who is author of
the book Mystic Visions, which I believe has just been
released as of Was it the first of April? Alison
that it was? It was, yes, So that's out there
at the moment. It's on Flying Dispress. I presume it's
available through Amazon it is, it is.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 2: I normally go to work where the books are available
right at the end of the podcast, but I thought
i'd get it out of the way to begin with.
On We've got a lot of stuff that I'd really
like to talk about. You've got a fascinating bio fascinating CV. Basically,
you're a theologian and an exorcist, and I'd really like
to talk about the work that you do with relation
to exorcism and also your experiences with demons and also
with angels and archaeanngels as well. So can I ask,
first of all, how did you become involved in shall
we say, the realm of exorcism?
Speaker 3: I think it was a path that I was set
on from quite an early age when my grandfather, who
knew that I liked to watch hammer horror films, handed
me a book that he had found in a charity
shop that he thought I would like, and I think
he had no idea what lay beneath the covers because
that book was The Exorcist and I was only fourteen
the time. He would have been horrified, I don't know.
Later on, that didn't really affect me, to be honest,
and I never really thought too much of it other
than it was a work of fiction. But when I
was in my late twenties, I had a demonic attack
demon an incubus, and that set me off on a
path of of research more than anything, and asking questions
of anybody and everybody I knew I told them about
this experience and asked them if they had ever heard
of anything similar, because I had never ever encountered anything
like that. And then when I was in my forties,
the flat that I was living in I was visited.
A workman come in and I got a really bad
feeling from him, and I couldn't really put it into
words what it was that I didn't like about him,
but I had a bad feeling. And when he had left,
when he had gone, there was still something I felt.
I didn't feel alone in the flat anymore. And that
escalat over the next I would say, over the next month,
from just simple noises to a full blown spirit attack
by an invisible presence and invisible force that I had
defend off. And after that I decided I was going
to do an exorcism in the flat.
Speaker 2: Sorry very quickly because asked about do you think it
was something that this workman brought him with him?
Speaker 3: Then definitely, definitely, he definitely had an attachment and I
think that or something similar to that, and that when
he came in it was at least some of it,
if not all of it, was left left behind and
for whatever reason, but you know, I wasn't going to
have it staying with me. It wasn't welcome, and I
let it know. At that point, I wasn't really frightened
of these things anymore. I was more like in charge.
I had the Roman Ritual and I set about. I
also had my background in paganism and magic, so I
used elements of that, such as protective circles, you know,
and consecrated salt, things that you actually would use in
a Christian ritual in many cases like holy water sprinkled around.
But I also used things like black salt at the doorways,
and I used I put symbols on the doors and
the the walls. But I also invoked, you know, in
the Father, the name of the Father, the Son, and
the Holy Spirit, in the name of Jesus, in the
name of Mary, asking the saints to come in and
help as well. And all these powerful forces had a
very good effect in the end.
Speaker 2: So it was a sort of combination of traditional pagan
practices obviously practices that go back many thousands of years,
but also was there elements of what it been out
in said the Catholic Church that you were bringing into this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, that the Roman ritual is the ritual that
they use, and I had that.
Speaker 2: So if you don't mimmy asking, well.
Speaker 3: It begins with the litany of the saints, so you
call in all the saints, and that is rather long
in itself, I think at that point, I think that
was all that I used from it, because some of
it is more appropriate to when you're dealing with a person.
But the whole that the entire to do the entire
Roman ritual which I have done, can take a full
day really with with a break in between. You know,
if you become completely exhausted, you know, it can it
can take a long time. So the part that was
what you might call I suppose Pagan used the four
elements of earth, air, salt, earth, air, fire, and water.
So there was there was consecrated there was holy water,
There was consecrated salt for earth, there was incense for fire,
and and air that represents air as well. But I
also then used a candle for fire. So I used
those elements and the black salt, which is just really
ash or charcoal in salt as as extra protection outside
the home. So these are things that Neo I'd have
come across through my time in the Neo pagan community,
which I'd still consider myself a part of. I am
not I'm I'm in the old Catholic and Apostolic church,
and it's a liberal Catholic to so there's not, as
far as I'm concerned, the same restrictions between the you know,
between the religions and between the religious practices. There's not
that sort of prejudice between them, you know. So I
used elements of both and it worked extremely well. A
few nights a night or a few nights later after it,
there was this sound of millions of hailstones, like hailstones
on glass, that kind of sound battering off of glass.
It was like static, statically charged energy on my ceiling.
It was. It wasn't just in my imagination, because my
cats were transfixed by this this noise that went on
first some time. And it was only after that that
I read in a book called Begone Satan by Carl Vogel,
that this is significant. It signifies the end of the exorcism.
It means that the energies have gone, they've lifted, and
the flat was a completely different place after that. It
was completely different. Was it felt cleansed, you know, it
felt clean of anything, negative. Yeah, and my mother commented
on it. In fact, when she came in, I think
it was a couple of days after that or the
next day that she commented she thought, what have you
done in here? Because it just feels so light and different,
you know, So she actually noticed that there was something different,
and I didn't. I never told her. I think I
might have told her later, but not that day. I didn't.
So it was very evident that something had been done,
so that something had worked.
Speaker 2: Do you know what the entity was? Did you get
any indication at all of what it was and why
it had attached itself to you from this workman?
Speaker 3: No, I didn't. I didn't tune into at all. I
did address it at one point and said, you can't
attach yourself to me. This is my home and you're
not welcome in it, so get out. And that was
a couple of weeks went by and there was nothing.
And then there was scratchings on the wall, you said,
scratching on the wall, shelves, things like that. But we're shaking, beds, shaking,
you know. I'd wake up with these things happening. And then,
as I say, the attack by the invisible presence, the invisible,
this invisible force. And as I say, all these things
we're mentioned in Begone Satan, which I only read afterwards,
you know, because I was researching for a talk that
I was doing. Everything that happened to me happened to
the priest in that in that book.
Speaker 2: That's that's quite bizarre, then, isn't it really very bizarre?
So this this habit, then, that these dark entities, these diamonds,
if we can call them diamonds, have of attaching themselves
to people and sort of perhaps jumping from one person
so another. If you come across this on other occasions
or what sort of other experiences have you had with diamonds.
Speaker 3: I can't say that I've experienced this sort of jumping
from one to another, although I do know somebody who
went on an investigation. This is something obviously investigators have
to be really careful about. Is they're going to places
because they're haunted, and they've got no idea what they're
actually going into, and they tend not to do any
kind of protection ritual beforehand, and they just go in
wide open. And this was the case, and that the
man when he came home, it actually started affecting his
baby's baby son, and that really was obviously bad news
for him, but he also felt the attachment on him
and he told myself my husband, my husband's a psychic medium,
and he very quickly, I mean, he can do some
things very very quickly. And he just spent a few
moments with this guy placed you know, his hand on
his shoulder, and the guy actually felt the attachment leave them.
Speaker 2: A right, okay, And so as.
Speaker 3: I say investigators need to be careful. They think that
they're they're immune to two things when they walk into properties,
but they're really not. They have to be careful of
that kind of environment. But yeah, I've I'm dealing with
a case just now that I don't really know if
there's more than one spirit involved. I get a feeling
now that there is that this spirit may it's a say,
not have jumped like from one person to another, but
I think it's it's probably there. Partly they are attachments,
and I think that that then has weakened the person.
And because of her work, and this is another danger
when you're doing psychic any kind of psychic mediumship a
healing as well, and she's a Rekie practitioner and had
a very sort of beautiful existence. Up until maybe about
six years ago, she worked with angels. She loved healing people.
But then at one point she must have been vulnerable.
I see. That's the thing, Like, if you're doing something
like that again, you need to make sure that you
are protecting your your aura, you know, and if it's
weak at all, then you can pick up like energies
from the person that you're working with. But you can
also by being open and doing work like that, you
can unintentionally invite something extremely bad into you and first
of all attached to you. And that is what happened.
And I also think that you know, you have like
a hierarchy of demons, okay, and a higher up deemon.
A stronger demon can send out lesser demons to do
you know, it's dirty work. There can be a chain
of command. This chain of command can be quite long,
you know, and go from In one case that I
know of, it went from the girl through to this
is a different case. It went from the girl through
to her boyfriend who was in a psychiatric unit, and
from him he was actually being he had sort of
did some black magic stuff, but he in turn he
was being influenced by a lesser demon that he had
been involved with, who was and who was being commanded by,
you know, one of the bigger, one of the big guys.
So these it's not all like simple black and white.
You know, you're dealing with a demon. That's it. It's
not and you can you can do an exorcism, but
you know, a few days and it can work, and
then a day or two later you've got the problem
again because there's something else, there's something that you've missed,
And that happens quite often, not just to like, you know,
somebody who's maybe less experienced, that this happens to Catholic
priests as well, who are experienced, like get Gabriella Amoret,
father Moore, who's the Pope's exorcist now deceased. I know
that he dealt with cases where he had to do
repeat exorcisms because I think now I can't remember the
exact number, but I think it's down as something like
eight thousand exorcisms that he did in his lifetime. That's
not necessarily full blown exorcisms, that can be shorter prayers
and things like that. But that also is not just
the like the amount of people, because those can be
repeat exorcisms. It's quite common. It's quite common to have
to some of these entities. There can be more than one,
and it can take a long time to get rid
of even one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so where do they come from? Where do they reside?
I mean, are we talking about and let's let's get
straight to the point here. Are we talking about the Bible?
Are we talking about Heaven and Hell? Is that the
sort of thing we're talking about? Is that the sort
of realm were these these demons? And obviously when we
chat letterron about angels where they're come from?
Speaker 3: You can be talking about that, but you can be
you can be talking about things that have been sent
to you, like by somebody who doesn't like you, like
a thought form that somebody has created, or a demon
that somebody has summoned and sent to you. So that
can be something that happens. I mean, there's all different
thoughts about where they come from. And I guess the
easiest label it sort of encompasses. It's like an all
encompassing word is to say they come from Hell, because
that I suppose.
Speaker 2: It's very it's very hollowoodized, isn't it that? It's very
you know, people probably think of sort of films like
The Exorcist or yeah, Constantine for instance. Yeah, it's very
graphic that they're come from hell and there's heaven and
hell and all. You know, it's all all around the
mysticism of the Bible and everything else.
Speaker 3: Yeah, sometimes it can just be energy that's been put
out there into the atmosphere.
Speaker 2: Sort of just like negative energy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean there's like maybe magical practitioners who have
left ritual's unfinished. Now. Alistair Crawley was said to have
done that at Boorley, not Bordly. What's the place that
he stayed. I can't remember now, but he was said
to have done a ritual that was that took months
to do, but that he left halfway through and that
this negative demon was left to kind of do its
own thing. So that if that happened, I'm not saying
that he did do that, but it has been known
to happen by others. That's you know, another sort of thing.
But usually it would be something that would be summoned
by or invited in, because sometimes demons are attracted to
like like is like, you know, they're attracted to something
in us that's similar to their personality that they have,
you know, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: So if somebody's got that that propensity to be dark
in themselves with the personality, then they can they can
attract a similar type of personality from this negative energy
that ye are describing as demons.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, And or it could be that Yeah, I mean,
I know that we're talking about demons, but it's still
there's things like curses, for example, that can even be
generational curses where this sort of negative energy or demon
is with a family for many years.
Speaker 2: So we're going back to the sort of old old
days of I suppose witchcraft in a way, we're practice
in precticing. Witches would put curses on people and you know,
unfortunate things would would befallen because of that and so on.
So you know, the pedal which is for instance, which
is obviously quite quite close to my heart, that they
were they were accused of putting spells on people that
that you know, eventually either killed them or or killed
their you know, killed the farm animals or whatever. So
it's obviously channeling that sort of negative energy, isn't it.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, So I mean, not every I have to
say that not every witch will be doing stuff like that.
I don't I don't actually think it's that common really
for a witch to do something like that, But it
does happen. It's happened.
Speaker 2: I mean, using the world using the word witches were opened,
We're opening a whole kind of a whole kind of worms,
aren't we using the you know, the word which, because
it can has so many different conversations, so you know,
it can be. It can be attributed to people who
just believe in in the old, the old pagan religions,
you know, which is not the right thing to do.
You shouldn't be attaching that to them. Can I ask
you about you had an experience didn't you with was
it described? Did you describe it as a sort of
ufo or a sort of ball of plasma or something
something like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So the that was to do with the incubus
attack that I had when I was in my late twenties.
I know that seems like surprising, but it started off
with a dream about a vampire. Now, vampirism can be
people think vampires don't exist. But in the astral world,
if you want to put it like that, in that
psychic world, they definitely do exist, and they definitely can
suck your energy, you know, there after your energy, And
that's what I was dreaming about. And I woke up
quite frightened. The room was this very strange shade of blue,
and then I was trying to waken up my partner,
which I couldn't. I couldn't waken them, which is another
feature of the incubus experience, is that the person beside you,
you can't waken them. The next thing, I was flipped
onto my back and pinned down by this unholy creature,
and he said, you thought you could get away from me,
didn't you. And he started scraping my neck with this
very long fingernail, trying to cut it, cut my throat.
And there was an old woman standing by the window
just in the corner, who was, you know, dressed in
a long white night dress and long hair, and she
was laughing into her hand. This is I later found
out the mara where we get the word nightmare from.
So it's sometimes known as old hag syndrome.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I heard about that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, for that reason, because she can feature there are
other features to these attacks, so you can have the
the young male figure, the young female figure, the old
female figure, the imp figure, and at some point I
think I must have passed out, woke up and everything
was fine. There was an almost repeat incident about a
week later when I woke up and I was paralyzed
and the room was this strange shade of blue again,
but I managed to get my partner's attention. He was
through the room and I managed to scream out and
he came in and put on the light, and that
that sort of stopped the experience, and there wasn't another
one after that.
Speaker 2: Because incubus so usually and we won't. I don't want
to go into too much detail because obviously it's very personal,
but they usually they can be sexually moultivated, can't they.
Now obviously I don't. I don't want to go into
anything any of that.
Speaker 3: No, that's okay. It wasn't sexually motivated. I'm aware of that,
and I know that that is quite common for people
to experience. They can be they can have sexual intentions
or murder intentions, and this one definitely had a murderous intentions.
But go forward like fourteen years and I met someone
at the Sterling Paranormal Festival and he was telling me
about these UFOs that he had seen over Glasgow in
the run up to the Millennium and he had done
this photoshop of where he had seen this UFO and
he said it was like a blue plasma light that
just imploded. And when he showed me the picture, it
was above my flat in Tory, glenn and Glasgow. And
I can't give you the date of my attack, but
it was the same month he saw this, in the
same month as my attack. I can't say for sure
that there was a connection, but it seems I believe
that there was a connection there. Now I don't know
what that was. I don't think it was a physical UFO, right, but.
Speaker 2: It's some sort of portal do you think or.
Speaker 3: Could have been? Could have been, But certainly it seemed
to have been utilized in some way for something to
come through.
Speaker 2: And you think this could possibly have been the incubus
spirit that came through and had the experience with you.
Speaker 3: I think so. I think so. I had no idea.
I was just thinking and I still do actually think demonic.
I don't think that there's like an alien connection there,
and I don't think there it was a physical UFO, right,
you know, like a military aircraft type thing. I don't
think it was anything like that. And I've seen more
recently people looking at the possibility that some UFOs have
a demonic sort of connection.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have spots people who've had that hypothesis. Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3: John Keel was one the most man prophecies guy. He
was somebody that believed that some UFOs certainly had a
connection to the demonic.
Speaker 2: So when when you have when you have these these
personal experiences, do you are you frightened at all? Does
you know, does it involve any sort of fair in you?
Because because you say quite calm explaining what happened, you know,
and it's quite you're seeing quite quite sort of strong
in the way that you're describing how you dealt with them.
So do you ever get that feeling of a fear.
Speaker 3: In the moment? You can do. Certainly with the incubus attack,
I was very frightened and with the experience that I
had of the the Pladians who appeared to me, and
I had paralysis as well. In that experience, I had
like lots of different emotions going. You know, there was
fear because I was paralyzed and I was seeing something
that was completely out of the ordinary.
Speaker 2: So I want to show about that and what these
what these banes were that you saw, and how how
you saw them, how this happened.
Speaker 3: Okay, I mean, it's difficult to say what they were,
but certainly the vibe that they gave was it was
they weren't of this world. They were extraterrestrial, you know,
So whether that was that they were divine beings, but
because there definitely seemed to be that vibe, so whether
they were angelic or whether you know, these palladings that
people have reported have that you know, angelic connection, I
couldn't tell you. But I woke up and I had
this speam of light going to my forehead. There was
a circle in the ceiling overhead that was like a platform,
and there was a man looking over. He had dark hair,
and I felt like the top half of my body,
my head and my shoulders being lifted up off the pillow.
And as soon as he saw that I saw him,
he said to someone close by that I couldn't see.
We've got her. And then other sort of human humanoid
beings looked over, and one of them leaned down and said,
you have to tell people about us, And I mean,
it wasn't just sort of fear. It was also elation too.
I was in awe of what I was seeing, and
you know, I said, I will, I'll tell people, and
he said, no, you must promise. He was really pleading,
you know, you must promise that you'll tell people about us.
And I said, I promise, I will.
Speaker 2: And did this? Did this humanoid figure say why he
was hate? Was saw insistent on you telling Piper?
Speaker 3: No, No, he didn't. I just had to do it.
That's that was my that was my task.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: It's like that, that's that's your task. We're giving you
this task. It's an important task. Clearly it was an
important task. It could be that if it was angelic,
then people are kind of forgetting about the angels. They're
getting maybe getting forgotten about, and they maybe think that
it's important that we remember that they are out there
and that we can call upon them for help. And
I think that that might be I'm only so my thing,
but I think that that could be a reason why
I later saw in paintings, because I, you know, wanted
to see if anybody else had seen similar. So one
of the first things that I came across was a
painting or a drawing of what somebody had called the Palladians, right,
who are extraterrestrials, supposedly from the constellation the Pliades. I
don't know where people get this information from. I'm presuming
that perhaps they're told this, but that's what they looked
like anyway. They were dark haired. They weren't like the
blonde haired Nordics. They were dark haired.
Speaker 4: And so are these sorry, are these then what you would.
Speaker 2: Describe as angels?
Speaker 3: I think they could be. I mean they were dressed.
They weren't like, you know, dressed like white, yeah, white
dresses and wings. There was nothing like that. They're actually
quite star treky, you know, the sort of spacesuits and
that kind of thing. But they weren't. Although they were
physical in some way, there was something that there was
other about them. I was seeing them in another dimension,
and I think that that's why this was being beamed
to my forehead. It was a telepathic communication. Now. I
also saw in some artwork similar things, particularly paintings of
the Annunciation, where Mary has given news that she is
going to have the Child of God, and this beam
of light going to her forehead, and sometimes it's Gabriel
who's giving the message, or it's maybe represented symbolically with
a dove that symbolizes peace, or you know, just the
message the message.
Speaker 2: I mean sometimes when you look at a lot of
very old paintings, in particular a lot of old religious paintings,
so you know, sort of pre and I'm not an
art expert at all, but sort of medieval or pre medieval,
where you've got very strong religious iconography within these paintings.
Sometimes if you look at the detail, there is some
really interesting bits in there that you think, well, hang
on a minute, how how has that come about? How
how did it painted? Because that that looks like a
space helmet or that looks like a sort of you know,
space vehicle of some description it right in the background
in the sky or or somewhere like that. I'm really
interested actually.
Speaker 4: How how you.
Speaker 2: Sort of how this this makes you feel as a
religious person. So so you've got on one side, you've
got demons and on all the all this negative energy.
On the other sides, you've got with with briefly you've
briefly gone into angels and and and sort of what
angels I mean, we think of angels, as you said,
with wings and you know, sort of long flowing robes
and everything else. And I'm sure that that some people
have seen them in that way. Maybe it's how people
sort of interpret them themselves. Maybe they look different to
different people. I'm just I'm just curious to how it
makes you fail as a religious person knowing that all
this is going on.
Speaker 3: Well, first of all, I have experienced an angel in
the sense of the bright white light and the sort
of wings, but the wings were more in the form
of light. And again I'd been having a dream and
it was a priest who was saying the Lord's prayer
and was coming towards me. And as he was, as
he was going through the Lord's prayer, his face began
to change. He began to become evil, his voice began
to become evil, like he's gone from being coming from
going from being good to being bad or being possessed.
And as he got right close to me, and I
woke up with a start, and right in front of
me was an angel with you know, the outspread wings,
and it was just bright light. It was so bright
that I couldn't even really see their face. And I
I say she, because I got the feeling that it
was a she, and she she just sort of glided
back into the corner of the room and disappeared. So
that that was another experience that I had that was
of more of the typical angelic type.
Speaker 4: I mean.
Speaker 2: That then reinforced you fast.
Speaker 3: Well. It was really strange because at the time I
didn't have this faith, and the that I have now
was a long way away. I didn't really have any
sort of belief, not even my pagan path that I
hadn't even come across yet. So it was very curious
to me. Why on earth I should have a vision
that was religious. I couldn't understand this at all. So
it was many years later just of looking back, and
what I think now is that I was because at
that time I was getting other visions or sensing other things,
like pre cognitive things, and I think that this may
have been a precognition of what was going on in
the priesthood, like with the abuse cases in the priesthood.
I wasn't brought up in the Catholic faith. I was
brought up in the Church of Scotland. It wasn't ever
forced on me, you know, religion wasn't shoved down my
throat or anything. If I wanted to go to church,
I could go to church, but and I would sometimes
accompany my mom to church, but or go or go
with the school, you know, Easter and Christmas. But so
that's why I'm saying, you know, it was really strange
to me that I should have what appeared to be
a religious vision.
Speaker 2: As you mentioned about your pre cognitive visions, I mean,
I understand from from looking at at you, at you
buy all that, that you've had some quiet, historically important,
shall we say, visions with regards to nine eleven Paris
attacks as well twenty fifteen. I mean, how did that
come about? What was that like? And how did you
feel when they actually event took place.
Speaker 3: I initially got a feeling that something was going to
happen in New York and Paris. It was round about
the same time as that vision of the priest. I
didn't know what on earth it could be, but I
knew that I didn't want to visit these places until
after it happened. I told a friend and she was saying,
you know, what do you mean? And I said, I
don't know what I mean, and I don't know where
it's coming from. I just this is just how I feel.
Moving to two two thousand and two? Was it two
thousand and two, two thousand and one, two thousand and one. Yeah,
three months before nine eleven, I started daydreaming about planes.
I lived in high rise flat. I started daydreaming about
planes coming through my window, so I would find myself
just thinking about it and then thinking, why on Earth
am I thinking these thoughts, you know, thinking I wouldn't
stand a chance if a plane come through my window,
Or I'd be looking over the city other high rises
and seeing planes going into them and thinking, oh, they
wouldn't stand a chance. And then, of course, the day
of nine eleven happened, and the whole world just, I think,
froze in terror and in horror at what they were witnessing,
and you know, I was no different. But on top
of that, I realized what I was looking at was
what I'd been thinking about, and that it must have
been not just my bizarre thoughts or daydreams, but it
must actually have been a vision, of a pre cognitive
vision of what was about happen. Yeah. Yeah, so I
was quite horrified, not just at what I was saying,
but about the fact that I'd had this I hadn't
even realized it was pre cognitive. But in any case,
what would I have done? What could I have done? Nothing? Nothing,
And the same with the Paris attack. I after the
nine to eleven. In between times, I had been to
development circles. So when I was sitting and I saw
this bullet shaped bomb coming through my window, I began
to tune in to see if I could get more
because I thought, oh, here we go. This must be
one of these visions that I've had before and just
mistook for a crazy thought, you know. And I could
see this this city that had a dome domed building
in it, I mistook it for Rome, when an actual fact,
right across from me were two pictures of Paris. One
was the Eiffel Tower and one was the Sacacure, which
is domed. So as I say, I started putting my
own thoughts into could this could that, you know, and
just rather than let the information come to me. So
that was I think a mistake that I made there.
But it was the next day that the Paras attack
happened and I realized what it was that I had seen.
But it can be after the event that you realize
what you what you've actually been witnessing.
Speaker 2: If you went to the authorities and said, I've just
had a premonition that, you know, a plan is going
to fly into the Aiffel Tower, friends and so on,
you know, there's going to be a mass shooting in
Berlin or something like that. Yeah, you'd just be written
off as being a bit crack pop, won't you.
Speaker 3: Of course, of course you would. You can't. You can't
blame them. I mean they must get calls like that
every day. And the thing is that some people are,
you know, in need of help. They are obsessed by
their every thought and their every thought. And I've met
people like this. Their every thought they write down the
record and they try to fit it to They'll think
about bad thoughts. They'll ruminate over bad things happening, like
car crashes and plane crashes and earthquakes and this and
that and the other. And of course, at some point
within like the next week, something like that in the
world is going to happen. But they, you know, they
scour the newspapers to find if something like that has happened,
and then they fit it to that thought that they've had,
and they are just comple lately obsessed it's not just
like the occasional vision that is, you know, turns out
to be right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 3: And Andre Herne she had the same with the Dumblane.
That was a kind of a sort of a one
off vision about something that was major. And she's the
lady that lives in Edinburgh or near Edinburgh, and she's
brought out a book as well. I think it's called
Arthur and Me or Arthur and I I can't quite remember.
But that's an interesting tale too. It's quite similar to
my own actually, So you know, you have to sort
of wonder, like, is it the police in the other
end of the phone are thinking, oh, here's this person
again telling us about or here's someone else you know,
who's completely obsessed by their every thought when you're not.
You might be somebody who genuinely has had a vision.
Speaker 1: But.
Speaker 3: You're not.
Speaker 2: You're not getting them all the time. You're not trying
to fit what you're thinking into things that have happened. Yeah,
you're just getting them every now and then, and unfortunately
they're coming true. Yeah, I mean, that's you have to
wonder whether you know, I mean, there's historically when you
look at people like the very famous ones Nostrodamems for instance,
or Mother Shipton in over in Nasbury and Yorkshire. I mean,
they were some of the the visions that they had. Again,
you can sort of mold them canting a little bit
into into to be able to fit into things. But
I suppose with with the very specific things that you're seeing,
it's it's a little bit more, a little bit more
worrying in it in a way. You know that that
you're saying things more specific.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a little bit like you know, the nail
on the head. You know you've hit the nail on
the head.
Speaker 2: That's what I was, That's that's what I was trying
to Yeah, it's as you.
Speaker 3: Say, it's a bit more worrying because it's quite specific.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I suppose you will. You don't want any more
of these types of of foreboarding because obviously it means
that something bad's going to happen. You'd rather.
Speaker 3: I actually I knew that something was coming before COVID happened.
You know, there's things that afterwards I thought, oh I
didn't put that in the book. I forgot to put
that in the book, And that was one of them.
I got a feeling that something was coming and I
didn't know what it was. But I started keeping a
box of like you know, food like tinned foods and
dry foods, and buying toilet paper and bulk.
Speaker 4: I remember that that started it.
Speaker 2: Then was it?
Speaker 3: Well? I didn't have like a whole cupboard full of
toilet roll or anything. I wasn't selling it for twenty
quid on eBay, but you know it. Remember like the
first couple of weeks of the lockdown, the shelves were
empty of toilet rolls and I said to my mum,
I was like, you thought I was crazy. I was
crazy for having extra things in the cupboards just in case,
because you know, she was like, why why have you
got like a box of like you know, all these
things or bottles of water and stuff like that, and
I said, it's just in case something happens.
Speaker 2: Strong drive then that you had It must have been
quite a quite a powerful feeling that that you had
that something something bad was coming.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just I would kid it on. I would
say zombie apocalypse, you know, and it was I mean,
it was kind of yeah.
Speaker 2: Sometimes yeah, that's that's that's both interesting and scary and
equal measures. I think it was quite quite disturbing fear
as a person to to have these these sort of things.
Let's just quickly move on to something that's that's a
a little bit less serious, although I'm sure that it
is a serious event. When it's dumb you you host
the Scottish Ufion Paranormal Conference. When does when does that happen?
Speaker 3: Is that?
Speaker 2: Is that an annual thing? What sort of people do
you have as guests?
Speaker 3: Or it is an annual event? Yes? This year it's
on Saturday, the fifteenth of June in the where it
usually is, the Queen Margaret Union University Gardens in Glasgow.
It's within like the grounds of Glasgow, the University of Glasgow.
And that's ten am till seven pm. And let's I'll
just tell you who's going to be speaking.
Speaker 2: Just get my glasses on, no problem, not easy when
you've got headphones, I know, I know.
Speaker 3: So the first person speaking is Karen Strang and she
is a visual artist, predominantly a painter, and she's going
to be talking about the kind of artwork that she
does that includes things like the quite often it's to
do with witchcraft actually that she has, you know, or
the pagan landscape and things like that. So I don't
know exactly what she's going to be, you know, saying,
but she's got the title is the cunning her the
magic of painting, so it will be something you know,
along those sort of lines. I'll be speaking next on
psychic attack and self defense, and Gordon Rutter he's going
to be speaking about frightening Flora. Just read out his
little blurb because it's really good tales of plants, but
not the nice medicinal and pretty ones. Know it's the
turn of the nasty ones to get their chance in
the spotlight. Examples will be taken from folklore and fiction,
with some frightening factual flowers for good luck, have an
X you hate, listen along and find a suitable bouquet
for them, NB, NB the same BOOKUET will probably do
for people you like if their interests lies more in
the carb great.
Speaker 2: So we've got plenty of deadly nattion.
Speaker 3: And yeah, he's quite the personality, Gordon Rutter, and he
also emcees our events as well. And then after lunch,
Ron Halliday will be talking. I don't know if you've
spoken to Ron before. He lives Scotland. He's a writer
he's got some great books out there on I think
the first one that he did was called mckex mckex
Files or something, and he also had a what do
you call it a column in one of the newspapers.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'll search them out, say I can.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So he's done books on the paranormal and gufology before,
and he's going to be talking about ancient aliens and
examining evidence that our earth was visited by ancient aliens
in the distant past, where they, for example, the Pyramids
were the pyramids of ancient Egypt constructed by these beings.
Could we be the descendants of these ancient ancient colonists
or our aliens masquerading as beings taking over the earth
through all this kind of stuff?
Speaker 2: So they are von Danikin.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So he's going to be sort of talking about that.
It's something that I don't think we've had. We try
to vary our talks, We try to have them all
different every year.
Speaker 2: Is it a ticket thing or can people just sort
of turn up on the day it is ticketed.
Speaker 3: We've got our tickets are on event, right, people can
buy them there. It helps us if they do buy
them there. Because then we have a reasonable idea of
how many people to expect. But you can, like, if
you don't know what you're going to be doing, you
can get them on the door and there will be space.
It's quite a big space, so there will be plenty
of room. The next speaker is Linda White for and
her talk is on the Ghosts of Curos. The Curos
is a lovely little place. It's where Outlander was filmed
there and there's a witch connection there too. People were
executed as witches there and she now works at Curos
Palace where she communicates with the spirits who reside there.
And she's going to be telling us about that Malcolm Robinson,
the Infamous, He's going to be talking about UFO's in Scotland,
so he'll discuss things like the A seventy incident and
the Craig Lusker Reservoir and Polmont Reservoir cases. He'll be
talking about all that.
Speaker 2: Somebody malist at some point if I can, if I
can pin him down.
Speaker 3: Girl, Oh yeah, you'll be, he'll be He'll be more
than happy to come on your show. And the last one.
I'm really looking forward to listening to this guy Alan Murdy.
He's talking about the mystery of the white lady ghosts.
So many reports of hauntings involve a ghost who is
traditionally female. But alongside these are this particular and recurrent
type of apparition, a class known internationally as the white lady.
And these white ladies appear as anonymous apparitions. They appear
in a fixed and emblematic form, and typically she's a
phantom of a woman who appears in white or pale clothing,
who seems to manifest in rural rather than urban and
domestic settings. And quite often these are frequently seen standing
beside or on or even crossing a road, or materializing
remote and isolated sports. So what I'm interested in is
whether he's going to talk about our lady, you know,
like our Lady of Fatima or our Lady of Lourds,
because I think that I would think that those would
come under the white lady apparitions.
Speaker 2: That's actually really interesting because locally to maybe have Salmsbury Hall,
which is near Preston, and that is famous for having
a white lady, Dorothy Southworth, who is often seen floating
across the road. There's a main many air road right
outside the whole. The whole dates back to about the
eleven hundreds, and she she's often seen in the grounds
and as I said, floating across the road. And there's
been numerous occasions where cars of screech to a halt
because the drivers think that they've actually run run somebody over,
you know, they get they get out of the car,
they're absolutely element that they've run run over a young woman.
And of course it's it's the it's the gust of Dorothy.
So so yeah, that's that's that's very similar. Actually, So
what's what your guess is talking about.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, definitely really well.
Speaker 2: That sounds really good. That sounds and that that's an
annual event. So you also you you have already or.
Speaker 3: Show I believe I do a d x files which
people can find on mix cloud, and that's kind of
like this podcast, you know, talking about the the strange,
the paranormal, a bit of eupology, a bit of everything really,
you know, anything bizarre and weird and wonderful. I tend
to stay away from the sort of conspiracy world. I
tried to stay away from that. And I also obviously
have a leaning towards the spiritual side. Of things I
did do. I think there was about five short radio
podcasts on various supernatural things that supernatural religion, right. I
covered that called Candle in the Dark. I've not had
a lot of time recently because I'm something has to go,
you know, when i start to write my talks for
the annual event, and I've had to put my shows
on hold right now so as i can concentrate on
the talk that I'm going to be giving on psychic
attack and self defense. So a lot of what I've
been talking about yourself today, and.
Speaker 2: So the don't that you can't Yeah, yeah, I know
how how time consuming it can be because I've I've
written books and I've I obviously do this as well,
So yeah, it can. It can sort of take over
a little bit. Calm it so you have to you
have to let some things rest for a while whilst
you concentrate on that's sight.
Speaker 3: That's shally.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well it's it's been fascinating talking to you. It's
a subject that I've wanted to discuss with somebody for
a while, especially as as I said about at the beginning,
certainly the subject of demons is something that I've found
really interesting and so you really you know, you've piqued
me interested even more now to go out and and
find out more information about what this phenomena is. To
be honest, and as I said, it's been great to
talk to you. Good luck with the book. The books
on Amazon?
Speaker 4: Is it?
Speaker 2: Did you say it is?
Speaker 3: It's available on Amazon or if you come along to
the conference, I can do your signed copy and give
you a little discount as well at the same time.
Speaker 2: So it's on the Flying disc Presses now which is
filling it is amples.
Speaker 4: Label.
Speaker 2: Well, it's been great talking to you. Thank you so much.
Good luck with the book, good luck with thank you conference.
And yeah, make sure you get back into podcasting at
some point.
Speaker 3: Oh definitely. That's that's just it's just resting at the moment.
It's just just having a rest. Well, I got on
with other things.
Speaker 2: That's just one last thing. If people want to get
in contact with you. Was the best place to get
in contact with you?
Speaker 3: Well, I'm on Facebook, but they can also email, which
is probably best is SPI Scotland at gmail dot com. Okay,
so that's probably the best place to get me.
Speaker 2: I'll put your email in the description and then people
can can drop you an email if you want to
have a chat with you. Okay, brilliant, Thank you, best
to look. Thank you look going forward and hot speech
again soon.
Speaker 3: Hope to speak to you again soon as well.
Speaker 4: Thank you very much, thank you, Bye bye.
Speaker 2: You can visit my website at www dot Craig Bryant
dot co dot uk. Paranormal Pendle will return and remember
to keep watching the shadows.
Speaker 1: A