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<v Speaker 1>In March of twenty twenty one, a man was found

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<v Speaker 1>shot in the back of the head along a quiet

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<v Speaker 1>trail in a United States National park. What started as

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<v Speaker 1>a strange and mysterious killing quickly unraveled into a carefully

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<v Speaker 1>planned act tied to years of unresolved trauma, digital footprints,

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<v Speaker 1>and a cross state trail of evidence. This is the

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<v Speaker 1>story of how one moment in the woods exposed the

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<v Speaker 1>limits of justice and the devastating cost of taking it

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<v Speaker 1>into one's own hands. This is the tragic and convoluted

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<v Speaker 1>story of Matthew Dunmyer and Chelsea Perkins.

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<v Speaker 2>My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked

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<v Speaker 2>and Grim, a true crime podcast.

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<v Speaker 3>The following podcast and material intended about your audience listener

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<v Speaker 3>discretion is It's.

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<v Speaker 2>The last Friday before Christmas Day.

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<v Speaker 1>So there's not a whole lot of time to make

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<v Speaker 1>sure you're on the nice list or the naughty list.

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<v Speaker 1>I need them where you want to land.

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<v Speaker 2>At this point, I think it's done. No, it's decided.

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<v Speaker 1>There is no. It's never too late for redemption. It's

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<v Speaker 1>never too late for redemption.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, honestly, this is actually a good time. A year

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<v Speaker 2>to maybe have a reminder because it's just madness out there.

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<v Speaker 1>It is. People are driving like crazy, They're being dicks

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<v Speaker 1>to each other. Yeah, everyone's in a rush and not

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<v Speaker 1>looking to where everyone else is walking or living or existing.

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<v Speaker 2>It's almost unsafe to be driving. Like, we live in

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<v Speaker 2>a fair small town and the other day I got

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<v Speaker 2>cut off like twice. So it's like, say, if I

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't fully paying attention or had my mind somewhere else, like,

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<v Speaker 2>holy shit, there's an accident.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So I understand everyone has things going on, but

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<v Speaker 1>just try and be aware, try and be a little nice.

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<v Speaker 1>That's what Christmas is about, you know, be nice to

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<v Speaker 1>those around you, so and try and spread that if

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<v Speaker 1>you can.

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<v Speaker 2>If you're on the naughtylist, you're staying on the naughtulist.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh just kidding.

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<v Speaker 1>We literally watched the Muppets a Christmas Carol last night.

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<v Speaker 1>Yea Ebenezer Scrooge redeemed himself overnight.

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<v Speaker 2>Come on now, Yeah that was like, that was really lovely.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that was a whole moral of the story, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>redemption and being nice. And here you're just like, no,

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<v Speaker 1>it's too late, no one can do it.

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<v Speaker 2>Just kidding. I actually sat through that and put my

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<v Speaker 2>laptop away and didn't work. It was it was nice.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we do have a big announcement we got to make,

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<v Speaker 1>not just talking about Christmas. We have officially joined up

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<v Speaker 1>on the iHeartMedia platform. So you might notice a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit of changes within, like how ads are played or anything,

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<v Speaker 1>but generally speaking you shouldn't notice much. It's more so

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<v Speaker 1>on the back end. But we're super super excited to,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, make that change.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it was a really smooth transition, so I think

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<v Speaker 2>was it well for me?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you didn't have to do any of the back

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<v Speaker 1>end work.

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<v Speaker 2>I had to listen to you, and you weren't very

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<v Speaker 2>you weren't really complaining, So I felt like it went pretty.

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<v Speaker 1>Smooth because I was focused, I was doing things.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, I was moral support, and it seemed from my

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<v Speaker 2>end to go pretty good.

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<v Speaker 1>You did pour me and Mimosa to celebrate afterwards, so

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<v Speaker 1>I appreciate that. Thank you. I did.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we are like full blown Christmas drinks over here,

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<v Speaker 2>Mimosa's eggnog with rom. I'm having a hot chocolate eggnog

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<v Speaker 2>this morning.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm just having coffee, but that's also a Christmas drink.

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<v Speaker 1>That's an everyday, all the time, drink.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, but anyway, very excited to be moving over to

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<v Speaker 2>that new network.

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, so all the all the exciting new things. Hey,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, just looking forward to it. But I do

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<v Speaker 1>think we should get into the case instead of too

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<v Speaker 1>much chit chat. You ready for it?

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<v Speaker 2>I am. You've told me a tiny bit about this one,

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<v Speaker 2>so I'm very intrigued to hear about it.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, Well, let's let's go and dive into the detail.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's do it.

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<v Speaker 1>It was late in the morning on Tuesday, March ninth,

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty one, when a pair of hikers stepped onto

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<v Speaker 1>the Tera Vista trail inside Cyahuga Valley National Park. It's

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<v Speaker 1>a quiet stretch of woods south of Cleveland that most

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<v Speaker 1>people visit for its scenery, not really for surprises. The

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<v Speaker 1>trail winds through thick trees and uneven ground, and it's

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<v Speaker 1>easy to lose sight of other hikers once you step

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<v Speaker 1>off the main path. And that's when they saw him,

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<v Speaker 1>a man lying face down in the leaves, just off

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<v Speaker 1>that path and laying perfectly still.

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<v Speaker 3>Now.

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<v Speaker 1>At first glance, there was no obvious sign of a struggle,

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<v Speaker 1>no drag marks in the earth, no disturbed brush, just

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<v Speaker 1>a body that clearly didn't belong there. Now, park rangers

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<v Speaker 1>and first responders were called and arrived shortly after. The

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<v Speaker 1>man's body was already cold to the touch as they

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<v Speaker 1>knelt down and felt for a pulse that was not there.

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<v Speaker 1>There was little decomposite, which suggested he hadn't been there

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<v Speaker 1>for long, and the cause of death, well, it was immediate.

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<v Speaker 1>He had a single gunshot wound to the back of

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<v Speaker 1>his head. There was no weapon laying nearby, there was

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<v Speaker 1>no shell casing on the ground, and no sign that

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<v Speaker 1>he had tried to defend himself. It was just simple

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<v Speaker 1>and what appeared to be an execution. However, even if

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<v Speaker 1>that's what it seemed like, nothing could be ruled out.

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<v Speaker 1>Accidents happened in strange ways, for example, and suicides, while

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<v Speaker 1>unlikely in this situation given the placement and nothing found

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<v Speaker 1>around him, still had to be considered. Homicide was, of

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<v Speaker 1>course the most possible, but without a suspect or motive,

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<v Speaker 1>or even an identity, it was still just a theory. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>because the death occurred inside a national park, federal jurisdiction

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<v Speaker 1>kicked in almost immediately. The FBI joined the investigation. Alongside

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<v Speaker 1>local authorities and investigators while they began working to identify

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<v Speaker 1>the man, and with dental records and missing persons reports,

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<v Speaker 1>they soon confirmed his identity as thirty one year old

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<v Speaker 1>Matthew Dunmyer, a Virginia native who had been living in Ohio.

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<v Speaker 1>But even with a name, the mystery only continued to deepen.

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<v Speaker 1>Why was he alone in a remote area of the

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<v Speaker 1>National Park, Why had someone shot him from behind? And

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<v Speaker 1>who had been with him before he died? Who had

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<v Speaker 1>shot him? How? Why? All these questions began to pile up.

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<v Speaker 1>Investigators shifted their focus from the crime scene to try

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<v Speaker 1>and figure out those questions and of course, his final

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<v Speaker 1>known movements. Now they had discovered that Matthew had moved

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<v Speaker 1>from Virginia to Ohio in an attempt to do a

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<v Speaker 1>bit of a fresh start on his life. He was

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<v Speaker 1>living near Hudson, working at a screen printing shop and

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<v Speaker 1>spending most of his time with coworkers who had become

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<v Speaker 1>his main social circle. Now to them, Matthew came across

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<v Speaker 1>as laid back. He was creative and easy to get

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<v Speaker 1>along with. He played guitar, loved music, and often talked

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<v Speaker 1>about his kids back home in Virginia. On the evening

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<v Speaker 1>of Friday, March fifth, Matthew went out with his coworkers

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<v Speaker 1>to a bar called Teaky Underground. It wasn't unusual for

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<v Speaker 1>the group to grab drinks after work, and nothing about

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<v Speaker 1>the night really seemed off, at least not at first.

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<v Speaker 1>At some point during the evening, Matthew mentioned that he

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<v Speaker 1>had plans for the weekend. A woman he knew from

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<v Speaker 1>Virginia was in town and they were going to go

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<v Speaker 1>spend time together. Now, not long after that, his phone

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<v Speaker 1>lit up with a message. Matthew glanced down, smiled, and

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<v Speaker 1>told the group that she had arrived, and so he

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<v Speaker 1>stood up, grabbed his coat, and headed outside. Now, one

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<v Speaker 1>of his supervisors followed him on his way out to

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<v Speaker 1>say goodbye and you know, wish him a good weekend

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<v Speaker 1>sort of thing. So as they talked, the supervisor noticed

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<v Speaker 1>a small white car idling in the parking lot and

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<v Speaker 1>a woman with dark hair sitting in the driver's seat.

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<v Speaker 1>Matthew smiled a big grin and shook his supervisor's hand,

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<v Speaker 1>then got into the passenger seat of the car as

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<v Speaker 1>it pulled away. That was the last time anyone at

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<v Speaker 1>the bar would ever see Matthew alive.

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<v Speaker 2>Dun dun, dum Hey yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Now. Surveillance cameras in the area later confirmed them leaving,

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<v Speaker 1>and traffic cameras and told data also showed the white

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<v Speaker 1>smart car moving through Cleveland that evening as well. Around

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<v Speaker 1>the same time, the car stopped at a gas station.

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<v Speaker 1>Footage showed Matthew going inside to buy cigarettes, a canned drink,

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<v Speaker 1>and a bottle of Aquafina water. From there, the car

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<v Speaker 1>headed towards an Airbnb on the east side of Cleveland.

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<v Speaker 1>Later that night, cameras near a sandwich shop captured Matthew

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<v Speaker 1>and a woman together casually grabbing food before returning to

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<v Speaker 1>that airbnb. Cell Phone data placed both of them inside

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<v Speaker 1>the rental overnight. The next morning, Saturday, March sixth, Matthew

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<v Speaker 1>sent several text messages to his girlfriend back in Virginia. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>his girlfriend knew he was meeting this girl as it

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<v Speaker 1>seemed like it was a meetup of potentially an old

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<v Speaker 1>friend or something like that, So she was aware of this.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, So here I was assuming this was his

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<v Speaker 2>girlfriend or a lady he was interested in.

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<v Speaker 1>Definitely not his girlfriend.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, from the tone of the messages back to his girlfriend.

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<v Speaker 1>It suggested that there was some tension going on with

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<v Speaker 1>this girl that he was now hanging out with. He

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<v Speaker 1>said that, you know, they'd met up and somehow he

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<v Speaker 1>managed to upset her and he admitted, quote pissed this

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<v Speaker 1>chick off end quote Now. Still, nothing in those messages

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<v Speaker 1>suggested he felt unsafe or believed that he could be

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<v Speaker 1>in any danger. But at ten twenty nine am, matt

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<v Speaker 1>sent one final text to his girlfriend and said, Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>I'll see you in a little while now. Investigators would

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<v Speaker 1>later determine that message was sent from inside Coya Huga

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<v Speaker 1>Valley National Park, the same place where he was found dead,

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<v Speaker 1>and of course Matthew never made it home. Now, as

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<v Speaker 1>detectives pieced together the timeline, it was obvious Matthew hadn't

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<v Speaker 1>gone into the woods alone. Somewhere between the bar, the airbnb,

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<v Speaker 1>and the park, someone else had been with him, and

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<v Speaker 1>whoever that person was had vanished since without a trace.

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<v Speaker 1>But for now all investigators had was a car, a

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<v Speaker 1>woman in town for the weekend, and a growing sense

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<v Speaker 1>that this wasn't a spontaneous act. So as investigators continued

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<v Speaker 1>to work back through Matthew's final hours, new information began

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<v Speaker 1>to surface from people who had been inside Cyahuga Valley

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<v Speaker 1>National Park that same morning, and they were well. They

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<v Speaker 1>were first hand encounters that placed another person in the

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<v Speaker 1>woods at the exact same time that Matthew seemed to disappear.

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<v Speaker 1>Late in the morning on March sixth, a couple walking

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<v Speaker 1>along the trails near the Terra Vista Natural Study Area

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<v Speaker 1>reported hearing a single sharp sound that echoed through the trees.

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<v Speaker 1>It sounded to them like a gunshot, and the noise

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<v Speaker 1>was unsettling enough that they turned around and left the

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<v Speaker 1>area immediately and did not continue with their plans.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, that's probably pretty smart. Hey, that would be alarming.

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<v Speaker 1>Definitely now. Not long after, another pair of hikers entered

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<v Speaker 1>the same section of the park, and as they made

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<v Speaker 1>their way along the trail near an old cemetery, they

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<v Speaker 1>noticed a woman walking alone. She stood out immediately. She

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<v Speaker 1>was dressed heavily in black, dark pants, black hoodie, and

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<v Speaker 1>heavy boots that didn't quite fit the setting of hiking

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<v Speaker 1>on a nature trail to say the least. Hey, no

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<v Speaker 1>one's judging, it's just a little out of the ordinary.

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<v Speaker 1>And she didn't look injured or she didn't panic either,

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<v Speaker 1>but she didn't really look relaxed. Something else was an

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<v Speaker 1>air about her to say. When the hiker spoke to her,

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<v Speaker 1>she said that she was lost and she was trying

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<v Speaker 1>to find the cemetery. Her tone was flat and calm,

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<v Speaker 1>and after a brief exchange, she turned and walked away. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>at the time, it didn't feel like much more than

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<v Speaker 1>an encounter in the woods with someone dressed all in black.

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<v Speaker 1>People get lost in the park time to time. It's

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<v Speaker 1>not out of the ordinary. People look for a cemetery

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<v Speaker 1>or other landmarks. But once Matthew's body was discovered days later,

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<v Speaker 1>those interactions took a much heavier weight because well, she

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<v Speaker 1>had been seen near the exact area where Matthew's body

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<v Speaker 1>would later be found, and witnesses could place her within

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<v Speaker 1>a narrow window of time.

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<v Speaker 2>And she wasn't like very calm or did have an

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<v Speaker 2>odd demeanor about her.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly, So you have this window of a gunshot

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<v Speaker 1>was heard, a body is found. When you find someone

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<v Speaker 1>that just is a little bit out of place, and

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<v Speaker 1>all those things fall into place, that's when suspicions start

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<v Speaker 1>to get raised. Now, at this point in the investigation,

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00:12:36.919 --> 00:12:40.080
<v Speaker 1>detectives still didn't know who she was. They didn't have

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<v Speaker 1>a name, they didn't know where she came from really,

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<v Speaker 1>or where she went afterwards. The first break in the case, though,

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<v Speaker 1>came from Matthew's workplace. His coworkers at the screen printing

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<v Speaker 1>shop in Hudson, Ohio told investigators about the night that

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<v Speaker 1>he disappeared. That on March fifth, Matthew had gone out

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<v Speaker 1>with them to the local bar, the Teaky Underground, when

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<v Speaker 1>they mentioned, you know, the meeting of the woman in

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<v Speaker 1>the parking lot from out of town for the weekend,

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<v Speaker 1>and when it came time to leave, supervisor walked him

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<v Speaker 1>outside and said goodbye, and the details of him climbing

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<v Speaker 1>in the small white car parked outside the bar came

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<v Speaker 1>to light. It had been an out of state car

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<v Speaker 1>because it had the plates from another state and the

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<v Speaker 1>person behind the wheel appeared to be a woman with

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<v Speaker 1>dark hair. Surveillance footage from the nearby cameras backed up

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00:13:24.120 --> 00:13:27.559
<v Speaker 1>that account, and from there investigators began tracing the vehicle's

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<v Speaker 1>movements using traffic cameras, toll readers, and license plate recognition systems.

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<v Speaker 1>The white smart car appeared again at a gas station,

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<v Speaker 1>then later moving through Cleveland neighborhoods the trail didn't stop

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<v Speaker 1>at city limits, though records show the same car had

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<v Speaker 1>traveled from Ohio to Virginia on March fifth, just hours

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<v Speaker 1>before Matthew was seen alive. Toll data confirmed a very

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<v Speaker 1>deliberate multi state drive that aligned precisely with his final moments.

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<v Speaker 1>Now after his death, the following morning, the vehicle left

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00:13:59.759 --> 00:14:04.320
<v Speaker 1>Ohio again, crossing into Michigan before eventually returning to Virginia.

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<v Speaker 1>What had initially looked like an isolated killing on a

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00:14:08.240 --> 00:14:12.519
<v Speaker 1>hiking trail was now clearly part of a larger, planned sequence.

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<v Speaker 1>Someone had driven hundreds of miles to reach Matthew, to

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<v Speaker 1>stay overnight with him, and then left the state within

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00:14:20.679 --> 00:14:26.080
<v Speaker 1>hours of his death. The case was no longer confined

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00:14:26.360 --> 00:14:30.360
<v Speaker 1>to this national park. It had crossed state lines, involved

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<v Speaker 1>federal land, and pointed to planning rather than chance. Investigators

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00:14:36.799 --> 00:14:39.919
<v Speaker 1>soon identified the owner of that white smart car, and

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<v Speaker 1>it was a man by the name of John Perkins.

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<v Speaker 1>He was a man living in Virginia, but records quickly

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<v Speaker 1>showed he hadn't been in Ohio that weekend, and it

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00:14:48.919 --> 00:14:51.879
<v Speaker 1>was obvious he was not the person seen driving. So

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00:14:51.960 --> 00:14:53.960
<v Speaker 1>the next step was to figure out who had been

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00:14:54.039 --> 00:14:57.799
<v Speaker 1>behind the wheel. Now John did have a wife, and

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<v Speaker 1>her name was Chelsea Perkins. As agents began pulling records

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<v Speaker 1>on her name, things started surfacing. Travel data showed she

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<v Speaker 1>had driven from Virginia to Ohio on March fifth, twenty

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<v Speaker 1>twenty one, arriving just hours before Matthew had left the

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00:15:15.440 --> 00:15:19.720
<v Speaker 1>bar with her. The timeline fit way too cleanly to ignore.

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00:15:21.159 --> 00:15:24.320
<v Speaker 1>Clearly she was the one driving that car. Now, the

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<v Speaker 1>Airbnb Matthew stayed in that night wasn't booked under his name,

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<v Speaker 1>nor was it a fake name or even a third party.

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<v Speaker 1>It had been reserved under Chelsea Perkins's name, confirming that

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00:15:34.679 --> 00:15:37.519
<v Speaker 1>she was in fact there. Also, she used her own

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<v Speaker 1>credit card.

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<v Speaker 2>Hmm, okay, so she's really not hiding that she was

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00:15:41.639 --> 00:15:42.159
<v Speaker 2>there at all.

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00:15:42.399 --> 00:15:46.840
<v Speaker 1>No, definitely not. The address placed her and Matthew together overnight,

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00:15:47.039 --> 00:15:49.879
<v Speaker 1>less than twenty four hours before his death, and surveillance

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00:15:49.919 --> 00:15:52.480
<v Speaker 1>footage from the area, and of course you know it

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00:15:52.519 --> 00:15:56.360
<v Speaker 1>all showed them together. It was very obvious investigators now

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00:15:56.360 --> 00:15:59.519
<v Speaker 1>had something they didn't have before, a full identity tied

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00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:03.159
<v Speaker 1>to the vehicle, the lodging, and the timeline. Now Chelsea

293
00:16:03.320 --> 00:16:06.559
<v Speaker 1>wasn't this mysterious woman anymore. She was a confirmed part

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00:16:06.600 --> 00:16:09.960
<v Speaker 1>of Matthew's final days, and at this point, while she

295
00:16:10.039 --> 00:16:13.440
<v Speaker 1>wasn't under arrest, In fact, she didn't even know that

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00:16:13.519 --> 00:16:15.960
<v Speaker 1>she was at the center of an expanding federal investigation.

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00:16:16.320 --> 00:16:20.240
<v Speaker 1>But behind the scenes, agents began quietly building their profile

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00:16:20.279 --> 00:16:23.320
<v Speaker 1>and started digging into her background deeper, and what they

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00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:27.120
<v Speaker 1>found was not at all what they expected. As it

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00:16:27.159 --> 00:16:30.320
<v Speaker 1>turns out, Chelsea Perkins was a former US Coast Guard

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00:16:30.399 --> 00:16:33.960
<v Speaker 1>service member. She was also married, as we know, and

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00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:38.000
<v Speaker 1>she also had children. Now after leaving the military, Chelsea

303
00:16:38.120 --> 00:16:42.240
<v Speaker 1>Perkins had built a public online persona alongside her private

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00:16:42.279 --> 00:16:44.799
<v Speaker 1>life as a wife and mother. She was active on

305
00:16:44.799 --> 00:16:48.879
<v Speaker 1>social media and earned an income through online adult content platforms,

306
00:16:48.919 --> 00:16:53.639
<v Speaker 1>including one such as OnlyFans, operating under a different name. Now,

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00:16:53.639 --> 00:16:56.840
<v Speaker 1>to investigators, this wasn't evidence of wrongdoing by any means,

308
00:16:57.120 --> 00:17:00.759
<v Speaker 1>but it did explain her extensive digital footprint and why

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00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:03.960
<v Speaker 1>her online activity would later become part of this investigation.

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00:17:05.440 --> 00:17:07.799
<v Speaker 1>So there was nothing about her that suggested a history

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00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:10.960
<v Speaker 1>of violence or criminal behavior. There's no prior arrests, no

312
00:17:11.079 --> 00:17:16.440
<v Speaker 1>obvious red flags. A mother, a wife, an adult content creator.

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00:17:16.799 --> 00:17:19.640
<v Speaker 1>That's about it. And as agents shifted their focus to

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00:17:19.720 --> 00:17:23.519
<v Speaker 1>Chelsea Perkins, it began securing court authorization to examine the

315
00:17:23.559 --> 00:17:26.599
<v Speaker 1>digital trail surrounding her movements. They got a hold of

316
00:17:26.599 --> 00:17:29.279
<v Speaker 1>her phone provider and looked through all the information, which

317
00:17:29.319 --> 00:17:34.319
<v Speaker 1>included app data and location data. Now through this they

318
00:17:34.359 --> 00:17:38.400
<v Speaker 1>began reconstructing her movements digitally. GPS data placed her in

319
00:17:38.440 --> 00:17:40.799
<v Speaker 1>Cleveland on the evening of March fifth, lining up with

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00:17:40.839 --> 00:17:44.400
<v Speaker 1>surveillance footage and toll records and everything else. Cell Phone

321
00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:49.119
<v Speaker 1>tower pings confirmed she stayed overnight near the airbnb, which

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00:17:49.240 --> 00:17:52.599
<v Speaker 1>by morning of March sixth, both her phone and Matthews

323
00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:57.000
<v Speaker 1>were then moving in sync. Her social media added more

324
00:17:57.160 --> 00:18:00.480
<v Speaker 1>to this. Still, in the days before the trip, Chelsea

325
00:18:00.519 --> 00:18:04.720
<v Speaker 1>had posted an interesting and perhaps cryptic message that read

326
00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:10.039
<v Speaker 1>quote dead men tell no tales end quote. Now on

327
00:18:10.079 --> 00:18:13.920
<v Speaker 1>its own, that might mean nothing, but paired with everything else,

328
00:18:14.039 --> 00:18:16.480
<v Speaker 1>it lands a little bit differently, almost as if there's

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00:18:16.519 --> 00:18:17.960
<v Speaker 1>a bit of a hidden meaning behind it.

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00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:21.400
<v Speaker 2>Potentially it sure does well. And also, this is twenty

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<v Speaker 2>twenty one. It's like, I don't know it. They're just

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00:18:24.880 --> 00:18:27.359
<v Speaker 2>they're able to find so much information, right like, so

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00:18:27.519 --> 00:18:30.319
<v Speaker 2>this is honestly surprising me that if she would be

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00:18:30.359 --> 00:18:34.559
<v Speaker 2>the killer, because she just isn't hiding a single thing, but.

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00:18:34.599 --> 00:18:37.319
<v Speaker 1>It's potential that she's not trying to hide I guess.

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00:18:37.480 --> 00:18:38.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there you go.

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00:18:39.400 --> 00:18:42.400
<v Speaker 1>Now, while digital evidence was painting a very troubling picture,

338
00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:46.880
<v Speaker 1>investigators still needed something solid, something physical that could stand

339
00:18:46.920 --> 00:18:50.960
<v Speaker 1>on its own in court. They needed real evidence. They

340
00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:53.519
<v Speaker 1>needed something to say that she was in fact there,

341
00:18:53.799 --> 00:18:56.680
<v Speaker 1>that she in fact killed him, because as of right now,

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00:18:56.880 --> 00:18:59.920
<v Speaker 1>she was with him prior to she left after one

343
00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:03.079
<v Speaker 1>could have been seen in the park. We don't know.

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00:19:03.559 --> 00:19:06.240
<v Speaker 1>There's all this surrounding it, but there's nothing tying her

345
00:19:06.279 --> 00:19:09.519
<v Speaker 1>to the exact crime scene and the exact crime Yeah,

346
00:19:09.559 --> 00:19:10.240
<v Speaker 1>that's true.

347
00:19:10.359 --> 00:19:12.279
<v Speaker 2>Maybe she didn't even have anything to hide per.

348
00:19:12.200 --> 00:19:17.720
<v Speaker 1>Se, So it is just circumstantially yeah, point, it really is. Well,

349
00:19:18.200 --> 00:19:21.079
<v Speaker 1>the evidence that they needed came from the autopsy and

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00:19:21.119 --> 00:19:24.440
<v Speaker 1>the crime scene itself, or at least some did. If

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00:19:24.440 --> 00:19:27.440
<v Speaker 1>you recall, Matthew had been killed with a single gunshot

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00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:30.119
<v Speaker 1>wound to the back of the head, and the trajectory

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00:19:30.200 --> 00:19:33.640
<v Speaker 1>told investigators a lot that the bullet entered from behind

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00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:37.559
<v Speaker 1>at close range, traveling in a straight path. Now, there

355
00:19:37.559 --> 00:19:40.839
<v Speaker 1>were no defensive wounds, no injury, suggesting a fight or

356
00:19:40.839 --> 00:19:45.440
<v Speaker 1>sudden confrontation. Whatever happened out there, it was over quickly,

357
00:19:45.559 --> 00:19:48.519
<v Speaker 1>like he was with someone he knew or trusted. Yes,

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00:19:48.599 --> 00:19:53.200
<v Speaker 1>again still circumstantial. But near Matthew's body, investigators found a

359
00:19:53.279 --> 00:19:58.880
<v Speaker 1>partially full Aquafina water bottle, and forensic testing would turn

360
00:19:58.920 --> 00:20:01.960
<v Speaker 1>it into one of the most important pieces of evidence

361
00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:06.160
<v Speaker 1>in this case because DNA analysis revealed two profiles on

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00:20:06.200 --> 00:20:11.680
<v Speaker 1>the bottle, Matthew's and Chelsea's. Oh and Matthew is seen

363
00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:15.240
<v Speaker 1>on surveillance purchasing an Aquafina water bottle with her.

364
00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:18.720
<v Speaker 2>There you go. That's like a smoking gun and a half,

365
00:20:18.839 --> 00:20:19.079
<v Speaker 2>is it?

366
00:20:19.119 --> 00:20:19.400
<v Speaker 3>Though?

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00:20:20.599 --> 00:20:21.920
<v Speaker 2>Kind of I feel like.

368
00:20:22.240 --> 00:20:24.359
<v Speaker 1>Now here's the thing. Sure they could have shared the

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00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:26.279
<v Speaker 1>water bottle an hour before.

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00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:29.039
<v Speaker 2>Oh shit, I guess still.

371
00:20:28.839 --> 00:20:30.440
<v Speaker 1>Doesn't pin her down at the scene.

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00:20:30.680 --> 00:20:33.599
<v Speaker 2>True, because she was with him when he bought that,

373
00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:37.480
<v Speaker 2>but that doesn't necessarily mean that she didn't just have

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00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:39.720
<v Speaker 2>a drink when they bought it, and he later took

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00:20:39.759 --> 00:20:41.920
<v Speaker 2>it on a hike. Okay, I see where you're going.

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00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:44.880
<v Speaker 1>So these are important pieces of evidence for sure, but

377
00:20:44.960 --> 00:20:48.279
<v Speaker 1>there's still not quite the smoking gun they're looking for now.

378
00:20:48.319 --> 00:20:51.880
<v Speaker 1>Her DNA was also found under Matthew's fingernails and on

379
00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:55.000
<v Speaker 1>hair recovered from his body. The evidence showed that the

380
00:20:55.039 --> 00:20:58.880
<v Speaker 1>two had been close in physical contact shortly before his death,

381
00:20:59.240 --> 00:21:02.839
<v Speaker 1>but still did not by itself prove a crime, but

382
00:21:02.920 --> 00:21:05.599
<v Speaker 1>it firmly established that Matthew had not been alone in

383
00:21:05.640 --> 00:21:10.039
<v Speaker 1>the woods. Now they had digital records placing Chelsea at

384
00:21:10.119 --> 00:21:14.200
<v Speaker 1>the scene, they really do, but pulling the trigger murdering

385
00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:17.359
<v Speaker 1>someone is a different story. They had witnesses who saw

386
00:21:17.400 --> 00:21:20.599
<v Speaker 1>her in the woods immediately after a gunshot DNA tying

387
00:21:20.599 --> 00:21:24.279
<v Speaker 1>her there. But now, up until this point in the investigation,

388
00:21:24.559 --> 00:21:27.799
<v Speaker 1>it had focused almost entirely in what happened that day

389
00:21:27.799 --> 00:21:32.079
<v Speaker 1>in March, and rightfully so. But as agents continued digging

390
00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:35.720
<v Speaker 1>into Chelsea's background, they uncovered a piece of history that

391
00:21:35.839 --> 00:21:39.160
<v Speaker 1>reframed the case in a way no one saw coming.

392
00:21:40.480 --> 00:21:45.200
<v Speaker 1>And in March of twenty seventeen, Chelsea herself had walked

393
00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:48.240
<v Speaker 1>into a police station in Virginia Beach and made a

394
00:21:48.359 --> 00:21:53.839
<v Speaker 1>very serious accusation. She reported that Matthew Dunmyer, the murder

395
00:21:53.920 --> 00:21:58.119
<v Speaker 1>victim and someone she had known for years, had actually

396
00:21:58.319 --> 00:22:02.759
<v Speaker 1>sexually assaulted and raped her. Now, the details of that

397
00:22:02.799 --> 00:22:08.799
<v Speaker 1>report were never publicly released, but police did investigate. Matthew

398
00:22:08.839 --> 00:22:12.680
<v Speaker 1>admitted that he had been together sexually with her, but

399
00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:17.079
<v Speaker 1>he claimed the encounter was consensual, and ultimately charges were

400
00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:19.960
<v Speaker 1>not filed citing insufficient evidence.

401
00:22:20.279 --> 00:22:22.759
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, wow, there you go.

402
00:22:23.240 --> 00:22:27.599
<v Speaker 1>Legally the matter ended right there. But for Chelsea, clearly

403
00:22:27.880 --> 00:22:29.440
<v Speaker 1>it didn't end at all.

404
00:22:29.640 --> 00:22:31.359
<v Speaker 2>Well, no, it wouldn't have for sure.

405
00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:34.960
<v Speaker 1>Investigators would later learn that she carried the weight of

406
00:22:34.960 --> 00:22:39.400
<v Speaker 1>that allegation four years. Messages recovered from her phone and

407
00:22:39.440 --> 00:22:43.279
<v Speaker 1>social media accounts showed lingering anger, resentment, and a belief

408
00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:46.559
<v Speaker 1>that Matthew had escaped accountability for what he had done

409
00:22:46.640 --> 00:22:51.319
<v Speaker 1>to her and who knows, potentially others. In private conversations,

410
00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:56.559
<v Speaker 1>she wrote that one day he would get his someday quote.

411
00:22:56.400 --> 00:22:58.759
<v Speaker 2>Unquote, oh gosh, okay.

412
00:22:59.039 --> 00:23:02.079
<v Speaker 1>Now, this history was known to Matthew's coworkers in Ohio.

413
00:23:02.400 --> 00:23:04.519
<v Speaker 1>It wasn't known to the hikers who crossed paths with

414
00:23:04.599 --> 00:23:07.039
<v Speaker 1>Chelsea in the woods either, and it wasn't still known

415
00:23:07.079 --> 00:23:09.720
<v Speaker 1>to the investigators when they began piecing this whole thing together.

416
00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:12.319
<v Speaker 1>Right at the very beginning, they had no clue. But

417
00:23:12.440 --> 00:23:15.799
<v Speaker 1>once it was uncovered, it provided a lot of insight

418
00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:20.720
<v Speaker 1>and a possible motive for a crime. Now, importantly, investigators

419
00:23:20.720 --> 00:23:24.400
<v Speaker 1>were careful how this information was handled, the twenty seventeen

420
00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:27.880
<v Speaker 1>allegation had never resulted in charges, and Matthew was never

421
00:23:27.960 --> 00:23:33.319
<v Speaker 1>convicted of a crime. That legal reality remained unchanged. What

422
00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:36.119
<v Speaker 1>the history did show, however, was that Chelsea and Matthew

423
00:23:36.200 --> 00:23:41.079
<v Speaker 1>did not reconnect as strangers or casual acquaintances. They reconnected, yes,

424
00:23:41.319 --> 00:23:44.599
<v Speaker 1>but with unresolved trauma, anger and a pass that had

425
00:23:44.680 --> 00:23:48.279
<v Speaker 1>never been settled in court. So with everything they had,

426
00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:52.079
<v Speaker 1>investigators now needed to try and prove what they thought

427
00:23:52.119 --> 00:23:55.880
<v Speaker 1>to be true, which was that Chelsea had murdered Matthew.

428
00:23:56.960 --> 00:24:00.839
<v Speaker 1>So on March thirtieth, federal agents executed a search warrant

429
00:24:00.920 --> 00:24:05.119
<v Speaker 1>at her home in Arlington, Virginia, carefully documenting everything they

430
00:24:05.160 --> 00:24:11.440
<v Speaker 1>found inside the residents, agents recovered several firearms, including a

431
00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:17.119
<v Speaker 1>Springfield Armory nine millimeter pistol registered to Chelsea. One of

432
00:24:17.119 --> 00:24:20.559
<v Speaker 1>the weapons was located alongside her personal identification, leaving no

433
00:24:20.759 --> 00:24:24.039
<v Speaker 1>question about the ownership or access, and ammunition was of

434
00:24:24.079 --> 00:24:27.599
<v Speaker 1>course seized as well. Now, the bullet recovered from Matthew's

435
00:24:27.599 --> 00:24:31.640
<v Speaker 1>skull was also a nine millimeter round, and test firings

436
00:24:31.640 --> 00:24:34.440
<v Speaker 1>were of course conducted soon thereafter, and the markings on

437
00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:36.839
<v Speaker 1>the test bullets were compared to the bullet taken from

438
00:24:37.079 --> 00:24:42.000
<v Speaker 1>Matthew's bullet body and guess what it was an undeniable match.

439
00:24:42.279 --> 00:24:45.720
<v Speaker 1>Oh no, they literally have a smoking gun.

440
00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:48.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay, I do have a burning question here, what's up?

441
00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:52.319
<v Speaker 2>Because like she went to go visit him as a friend,

442
00:24:53.200 --> 00:24:57.039
<v Speaker 2>so were they they were in his mind still on

443
00:24:57.240 --> 00:25:01.200
<v Speaker 2>like friend grounds here, I don't know, and it wouldn't

444
00:25:01.200 --> 00:25:04.799
<v Speaker 2>have been weird or alarming or I don't know, okay,

445
00:25:04.920 --> 00:25:07.359
<v Speaker 2>because yeah, just sitting here, I'm like, that's so odd

446
00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:12.000
<v Speaker 2>that a to anyone in her life, she would be

447
00:25:12.079 --> 00:25:13.920
<v Speaker 2>able to go visit him and that would be okay

448
00:25:13.920 --> 00:25:16.480
<v Speaker 2>and be like that he wouldn't think that's fishy, you

449
00:25:16.519 --> 00:25:18.680
<v Speaker 2>know that she wants to come meet up with him.

450
00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:22.559
<v Speaker 1>There are some gray areas within this story and we'll

451
00:25:22.839 --> 00:25:26.039
<v Speaker 1>touch on that. Don't worry, Okay. So now, beyond the

452
00:25:26.039 --> 00:25:28.759
<v Speaker 1>firearms that were found, there were also receipts that were collected,

453
00:25:28.799 --> 00:25:32.119
<v Speaker 1>told data and booking records which confirmed Chelsea's drive to

454
00:25:32.200 --> 00:25:34.920
<v Speaker 1>Virginia to Ohio had happened and her overnight's stay at

455
00:25:34.920 --> 00:25:39.160
<v Speaker 1>the Airbnb. Investigators would also recover deleted Facebook messages between

456
00:25:39.160 --> 00:25:41.839
<v Speaker 1>the two of them. The conversation wasn't long, but it

457
00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:44.359
<v Speaker 1>was enough to establish that the meeting had been planned

458
00:25:44.680 --> 00:25:48.240
<v Speaker 1>days in advance, not arranged on a whim. But most

459
00:25:48.359 --> 00:25:53.319
<v Speaker 1>damning of all, forensic analysis also recovered deleted data from

460
00:25:53.319 --> 00:25:58.720
<v Speaker 1>her phone that included a draft note written from Matthew's

461
00:25:58.720 --> 00:26:02.119
<v Speaker 1>point of view. It was a suicide note.

462
00:26:04.160 --> 00:26:04.440
<v Speaker 2>Shit.

463
00:26:04.960 --> 00:26:08.799
<v Speaker 1>There was a drafted suicide note written from Matthew's point

464
00:26:08.799 --> 00:26:11.799
<v Speaker 1>of view found on her phone that she had wrote. Now,

465
00:26:11.839 --> 00:26:14.240
<v Speaker 1>this was never sent, it was never transferred to his phone,

466
00:26:14.319 --> 00:26:19.279
<v Speaker 1>never printed. Nothing. It did exist, Okay, typed out, saved,

467
00:26:19.279 --> 00:26:23.759
<v Speaker 1>and later deleted, So take that with a grain of salt,

468
00:26:23.839 --> 00:26:24.839
<v Speaker 1>but it did exist.

469
00:26:25.200 --> 00:26:27.519
<v Speaker 2>That was probably her ultimate plan, was to make this

470
00:26:27.599 --> 00:26:30.880
<v Speaker 2>seem like a suicide and then something yeah when a

471
00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:33.079
<v Speaker 2>rye or astray or whatever exactly.

472
00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:35.079
<v Speaker 1>And finding this in her phone it changed a lot

473
00:26:35.119 --> 00:26:38.359
<v Speaker 1>on how investigators viewed this case. This clearly wasn't just

474
00:26:38.359 --> 00:26:42.039
<v Speaker 1>someone who panicked after a crime situation. This was someone

475
00:26:42.039 --> 00:26:45.559
<v Speaker 1>who had thought very clearly and deliberately about how the

476
00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:47.640
<v Speaker 1>death would be explained, how it would look, and what

477
00:26:47.759 --> 00:26:50.039
<v Speaker 1>story would be told afterwards.

478
00:26:49.640 --> 00:26:52.559
<v Speaker 2>Probably for the past four years, if I'm being honest.

479
00:26:52.319 --> 00:26:55.680
<v Speaker 1>Potentially Yeah, now even though this note was never used,

480
00:26:55.680 --> 00:26:59.559
<v Speaker 1>its presence mattered hugely. It showed forethought and clear pre

481
00:26:59.640 --> 00:27:03.759
<v Speaker 1>meditation to potential murder, that Matthew's death had been considered

482
00:27:03.799 --> 00:27:07.599
<v Speaker 1>in advance, like you said, upwards of even four years. Now,

483
00:27:07.640 --> 00:27:10.279
<v Speaker 1>despite the evidence that was gathered, Chelsea was still not

484
00:27:10.359 --> 00:27:14.440
<v Speaker 1>taken into custody, at least not right away anyways. Instead,

485
00:27:14.839 --> 00:27:17.279
<v Speaker 1>she returned to her life in Virginia and remained free

486
00:27:17.319 --> 00:27:22.759
<v Speaker 1>for nearly nine months while the investigation continued behind the scenes. Now,

487
00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:25.480
<v Speaker 1>the delay was not due to uncertainty about her involvement.

488
00:27:25.799 --> 00:27:30.279
<v Speaker 1>It was pretty clear what slowed the process down was procedures.

489
00:27:30.839 --> 00:27:33.440
<v Speaker 1>The crime had taken place on federal land, which places

490
00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:36.920
<v Speaker 1>it under federal jurisdiction, while Chelsea lived in another state,

491
00:27:37.480 --> 00:27:42.319
<v Speaker 1>So every step required coordination between agencies, extensive forensic testing too,

492
00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:45.400
<v Speaker 1>and careful legal review, and all of that takes a

493
00:27:45.440 --> 00:27:49.119
<v Speaker 1>lot of time. Now, DNA analysis in particular, it took

494
00:27:49.160 --> 00:27:53.440
<v Speaker 1>a while samples collected from the water bottle, for example, Like,

495
00:27:53.920 --> 00:27:55.799
<v Speaker 1>that's not something to pick up the water bottle and

496
00:27:55.880 --> 00:27:56.960
<v Speaker 1>just know the DNA's there.

497
00:27:57.319 --> 00:27:59.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it definitely can take quite a while.

498
00:27:59.519 --> 00:28:01.640
<v Speaker 1>For sure, So I might have talked about it like, oh,

499
00:28:01.640 --> 00:28:03.680
<v Speaker 1>they found the water bottle and it had her DNA

500
00:28:03.720 --> 00:28:06.160
<v Speaker 1>on it. It took months to figure out her DNA

501
00:28:06.279 --> 00:28:06.759
<v Speaker 1>was on there.

502
00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:07.559
<v Speaker 3>Now.

503
00:28:07.599 --> 00:28:11.440
<v Speaker 1>Matthew's body also needed processing in documentation to federal standards.

504
00:28:11.599 --> 00:28:15.599
<v Speaker 1>Ballistic testings also had to be completed and verified. Prosecutors

505
00:28:15.640 --> 00:28:18.359
<v Speaker 1>needed every piece of this to be air tight before

506
00:28:18.359 --> 00:28:21.440
<v Speaker 1>moving forward with charges that could result in a life

507
00:28:21.519 --> 00:28:27.000
<v Speaker 1>in prison, so that takes time and work. Now, during

508
00:28:27.119 --> 00:28:29.839
<v Speaker 1>all this, during this period, Chelsea did not go on

509
00:28:29.880 --> 00:28:33.160
<v Speaker 1>the run. She stayed in her home, cared for her children,

510
00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:36.599
<v Speaker 1>and continued posting online without even a hint that she

511
00:28:36.680 --> 00:28:40.000
<v Speaker 1>was ever the focus in a major investigation. She knew

512
00:28:40.119 --> 00:28:42.599
<v Speaker 1>she was, though, because they had executed a warrant on

513
00:28:42.640 --> 00:28:45.680
<v Speaker 1>her place, right, she knew she was under the microscope.

514
00:28:46.200 --> 00:28:48.799
<v Speaker 2>But she was just living well. I mean, she and

515
00:28:48.920 --> 00:28:51.880
<v Speaker 2>her mind probably felt this. She was owed this, So

516
00:28:52.480 --> 00:28:54.240
<v Speaker 2>she's just going about living her life.

517
00:28:54.319 --> 00:28:56.880
<v Speaker 1>I guess saying, yeah, she's not trying to hide what

518
00:28:56.920 --> 00:28:59.960
<v Speaker 1>she did. She's not trying to run from what she did.

519
00:29:00.680 --> 00:29:04.680
<v Speaker 1>She's just potentially took care of business and got back

520
00:29:04.720 --> 00:29:09.880
<v Speaker 1>to everyday life. Now, behind the scenes, federal agents kept

521
00:29:09.920 --> 00:29:13.680
<v Speaker 1>watching her. Her movements were monitored her communications were tracked

522
00:29:13.720 --> 00:29:16.680
<v Speaker 1>and legally were permitted anyways, and by the end of

523
00:29:16.720 --> 00:29:20.480
<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty one, the case was complete. Every delay had

524
00:29:20.480 --> 00:29:23.400
<v Speaker 1>served its purpose, and every piece of evidence was now

525
00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:27.519
<v Speaker 1>in place. All that remained was an arrest. So in

526
00:29:27.519 --> 00:29:29.839
<v Speaker 1>a quiet day in December of twenty twenty one, nearly

527
00:29:29.960 --> 00:29:33.000
<v Speaker 1>nine months after Matthew Dunmyer was killed in the Woods,

528
00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:37.599
<v Speaker 1>federal agents arrived at Chelsea's home in Virginia and placed

529
00:29:37.640 --> 00:29:41.359
<v Speaker 1>her under arrest. There was no dramatic standoff, no attempt

530
00:29:41.359 --> 00:29:44.920
<v Speaker 1>to flee. Neighbors simply watched as she was quietly taken

531
00:29:44.960 --> 00:29:47.559
<v Speaker 1>into custody, with many of those neighbors unaware of what

532
00:29:47.599 --> 00:29:49.440
<v Speaker 1>she had done and why she was being led away

533
00:29:49.480 --> 00:29:53.880
<v Speaker 1>in the first place. Chelsea was charged with first degree

534
00:29:53.960 --> 00:29:57.039
<v Speaker 1>murder on federal land, along with a firearms violation tied

535
00:29:57.079 --> 00:29:59.720
<v Speaker 1>to the use and discharge of a weapon during a

536
00:29:59.759 --> 00:30:04.000
<v Speaker 1>crime of violence, meaning if convicted at trial, she was

537
00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:08.400
<v Speaker 1>facing possible life in prison plus additional time for weapons charges.

538
00:30:08.759 --> 00:30:10.640
<v Speaker 2>Okay, does it make it worse that it was on

539
00:30:10.759 --> 00:30:11.599
<v Speaker 2>federal land?

540
00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:13.480
<v Speaker 1>It does? Yes?

541
00:30:13.680 --> 00:30:18.039
<v Speaker 2>Really? Okay, she probably had no idea about that then, No, assuming.

542
00:30:17.799 --> 00:30:21.160
<v Speaker 1>I don't quote me on this, but I believe it's

543
00:30:21.240 --> 00:30:24.680
<v Speaker 1>the charges are upscaled or sorry, not the charges, Like

544
00:30:24.720 --> 00:30:27.720
<v Speaker 1>the sentencing is upscaled, So yeah, your charges is also

545
00:30:27.839 --> 00:30:30.759
<v Speaker 1>upscaled to like first scream murder to first scream murder

546
00:30:30.839 --> 00:30:33.599
<v Speaker 1>on federal land. Yeah, which means I think it's a

547
00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:34.519
<v Speaker 1>harsher punishment.

548
00:30:34.839 --> 00:30:35.720
<v Speaker 2>Huh Okay.

549
00:30:36.920 --> 00:30:39.319
<v Speaker 1>Now, for Matthew's family, the arrest brought a mix of

550
00:30:39.359 --> 00:30:42.839
<v Speaker 1>relief and devastation. The uncertainty of what had followed, you know,

551
00:30:43.119 --> 00:30:45.920
<v Speaker 1>with his death was finally replaced with answers. But the

552
00:30:45.920 --> 00:30:49.519
<v Speaker 1>reality of what those answers meant, well, it was impossible

553
00:30:49.559 --> 00:30:53.680
<v Speaker 1>to ignore their son, who was himself a father of two,

554
00:30:54.039 --> 00:30:58.000
<v Speaker 1>had been deliberately killed for an alleged evil act, and

555
00:30:58.039 --> 00:31:01.480
<v Speaker 1>the woman responsible was someone he had trusted enough to

556
00:31:01.519 --> 00:31:06.200
<v Speaker 1>spend his final night with. But why he was doing

557
00:31:06.200 --> 00:31:08.200
<v Speaker 1>so is a whole other conversation which you were kind

558
00:31:08.200 --> 00:31:11.519
<v Speaker 1>of already touching on, which we don't really know. Perhaps

559
00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:13.960
<v Speaker 1>it was to reconcile past actions, Maybe we don't know.

560
00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:17.480
<v Speaker 1>Maybe it was driven by desires of more infidelity. Maybe

561
00:31:17.519 --> 00:31:20.119
<v Speaker 1>it was simply platonic. We just do not know.

562
00:31:21.440 --> 00:31:21.599
<v Speaker 2>Now.

563
00:31:21.599 --> 00:31:24.400
<v Speaker 1>While Chelsea sat in jail awaiting the next phase, of

564
00:31:24.440 --> 00:31:28.359
<v Speaker 1>her case, a separate tragedy was already beginning to unfold,

565
00:31:28.519 --> 00:31:34.519
<v Speaker 1>one that investigators had never anticipated. Matthew dun meyers mother,

566
00:31:35.279 --> 00:31:38.200
<v Speaker 1>Tommy Lynne dun Meyer, had not taken the death of

567
00:31:38.200 --> 00:31:41.480
<v Speaker 1>her son very well, and in the months following the

568
00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:46.680
<v Speaker 1>discovery of his body, her grief hardened into obsession. Convinced

569
00:31:46.720 --> 00:31:49.440
<v Speaker 1>that the system was moving far too slowly, she began

570
00:31:49.559 --> 00:31:53.720
<v Speaker 1>conducting her own investigation, pouring over information and trying to

571
00:31:53.759 --> 00:31:58.079
<v Speaker 1>identify who she believed was responsible for Matthew's murder, and

572
00:31:58.119 --> 00:32:02.119
<v Speaker 1>by November of twenty twenty one, Tommy Lynn believed she

573
00:32:02.160 --> 00:32:06.599
<v Speaker 1>had found the person who killed her son. But she

574
00:32:06.759 --> 00:32:12.960
<v Speaker 1>was wrong. She didn't know she was wrong, and accompanied

575
00:32:12.960 --> 00:32:17.039
<v Speaker 1>by her husband, John McQuillan, she traveled to Washington, d c.

576
00:32:17.640 --> 00:32:20.880
<v Speaker 1>Convinced that this woman she had found was living there

577
00:32:21.559 --> 00:32:25.359
<v Speaker 1>just in peace, being Matthew's killer. The plan she had

578
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:28.880
<v Speaker 1>was simple. She was dressed as a ups driver, carrying

579
00:32:28.880 --> 00:32:33.519
<v Speaker 1>a fake package and a concealed firearm. John waited nearby

580
00:32:33.680 --> 00:32:36.839
<v Speaker 1>as a getaway driver, and as they knocked on the

581
00:32:36.839 --> 00:32:41.079
<v Speaker 1>door to deliver said package, the door opened and Tommy

582
00:32:41.160 --> 00:32:43.960
<v Speaker 1>Lynn pulled the trigger and fired two shots into the

583
00:32:44.039 --> 00:32:45.640
<v Speaker 1>innocent woman's stomach.

584
00:32:45.960 --> 00:32:49.759
<v Speaker 2>O holy fridge. I did not see this coming at all.

585
00:32:50.079 --> 00:32:52.799
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the woman who answered the door had no connection

586
00:32:52.960 --> 00:32:56.640
<v Speaker 1>to Matthew whatsoever or his death at all. She was

587
00:32:56.680 --> 00:32:59.599
<v Speaker 1>an innocent stranger who got shot because someone took what

588
00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:03.200
<v Speaker 1>they thought was justice into their own hands.

589
00:33:03.319 --> 00:33:06.920
<v Speaker 2>Oh my word, Okay, please tell me she made it.

590
00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:11.720
<v Speaker 1>Thankfully, this woman survived the attack thanks to emergency services

591
00:33:11.720 --> 00:33:12.920
<v Speaker 1>who reached her in time.

592
00:33:13.319 --> 00:33:18.559
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, that's I mean, gosh. I can see like

593
00:33:19.480 --> 00:33:22.200
<v Speaker 2>being angry and like wanting to get like justice for

594
00:33:22.279 --> 00:33:25.839
<v Speaker 2>your kid and stuff, but that is not the way

595
00:33:25.839 --> 00:33:26.240
<v Speaker 2>to do it.

596
00:33:28.960 --> 00:33:31.680
<v Speaker 1>Yes, I agree. We'll talk about it out. Don't worry.

597
00:33:31.720 --> 00:33:34.799
<v Speaker 2>I mean, especially if you're not totally well. I guess

598
00:33:34.839 --> 00:33:36.920
<v Speaker 2>she probably was totally certain. I don't know.

599
00:33:37.039 --> 00:33:41.440
<v Speaker 1>Okay. There's two perspectives on this though, because arguably Chelsea

600
00:33:41.880 --> 00:33:45.319
<v Speaker 1>did the same thing her mother did. Chelsea went and

601
00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:49.200
<v Speaker 1>shot someone who wronged her, who raped and sexually assaulted her.

602
00:33:49.519 --> 00:33:50.920
<v Speaker 1>That's why Matthew's.

603
00:33:50.440 --> 00:33:52.319
<v Speaker 2>Dead, the same thing Matthew's mother did.

604
00:33:52.519 --> 00:33:55.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, or sorry Matthew's mother. Yeah, So Matthew's mother

605
00:33:55.279 --> 00:33:57.279
<v Speaker 1>is now taking yeah, doing the same thing. But it

606
00:33:57.319 --> 00:34:01.359
<v Speaker 1>was an innocent person yeah. So so sometimes, yeah, you

607
00:34:01.359 --> 00:34:03.319
<v Speaker 1>know what, you might want to take matters into your

608
00:34:03.319 --> 00:34:06.359
<v Speaker 1>own hands, but are you really doing it properly?

609
00:34:06.799 --> 00:34:09.880
<v Speaker 2>Well, and in reality, what is that going to necessarily

610
00:34:09.960 --> 00:34:12.559
<v Speaker 2>do for you? Because you're probably going to get caught,

611
00:34:13.239 --> 00:34:15.639
<v Speaker 2>and then what's your life after that? You know?

612
00:34:15.800 --> 00:34:19.639
<v Speaker 1>Well exactly, So this case literally shows two sides of

613
00:34:19.679 --> 00:34:23.400
<v Speaker 1>the coin when you take matters into your own hands. Yes,

614
00:34:23.639 --> 00:34:30.400
<v Speaker 1>a potential sex predator was held accountable quote unquote.

615
00:34:30.039 --> 00:34:32.239
<v Speaker 2>We'll say that which they they should have been.

616
00:34:32.320 --> 00:34:35.199
<v Speaker 1>They should have been. Yeah, if actually they did that crime,

617
00:34:35.239 --> 00:34:37.480
<v Speaker 1>they definitely should be. Yeah, So she took matters to

618
00:34:37.519 --> 00:34:40.360
<v Speaker 1>make sure he was actually held accountable. His mother was

619
00:34:40.360 --> 00:34:42.119
<v Speaker 1>trying to do the same, but she got it wrong.

620
00:34:42.440 --> 00:34:45.280
<v Speaker 1>She had no clue. Yeah, so she was holding the

621
00:34:45.320 --> 00:34:48.920
<v Speaker 1>wrong person accountable. So there's that two side that when

622
00:34:49.119 --> 00:34:51.320
<v Speaker 1>it goes wrong and when it does, like you know

623
00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:52.159
<v Speaker 1>what I'm saying.

624
00:34:52.239 --> 00:34:54.199
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and I think we should just say too, like

625
00:34:54.440 --> 00:34:58.920
<v Speaker 2>held accountable by you know, going to jail, not necessarily

626
00:34:58.960 --> 00:34:59.599
<v Speaker 2>being like.

627
00:35:00.400 --> 00:35:03.239
<v Speaker 1>That's when why I said quote unquote held up accountable,

628
00:35:03.440 --> 00:35:06.280
<v Speaker 1>because it's depending on your perspective, and in her perspective,

629
00:35:06.519 --> 00:35:11.079
<v Speaker 1>she was holding him quote unquote accountable. Now after this

630
00:35:11.159 --> 00:35:14.480
<v Speaker 1>had occurred and police arrived, they were quickly closing in

631
00:35:14.920 --> 00:35:17.760
<v Speaker 1>and Tommy Lynn and John while they were attempting to run,

632
00:35:18.239 --> 00:35:20.880
<v Speaker 1>but soon after they got stopped. With the police and

633
00:35:20.920 --> 00:35:24.440
<v Speaker 1>everything right, John exited the vehicle and surrendered, while Tommy

634
00:35:24.480 --> 00:35:28.360
<v Speaker 1>Lynn remained sitting inside the vehicle. But moments later, there

635
00:35:28.400 --> 00:35:31.519
<v Speaker 1>was another sharp pop sound as she pulled the trigger

636
00:35:31.559 --> 00:35:33.760
<v Speaker 1>and took her own life with the same gun she

637
00:35:33.880 --> 00:35:38.559
<v Speaker 1>used in the shooting. Oh no, So, in the span

638
00:35:38.679 --> 00:35:41.800
<v Speaker 1>of a single night, Matthew's family lost a second life

639
00:35:41.800 --> 00:35:44.079
<v Speaker 1>and an innocent woman was nearly killed.

640
00:35:44.840 --> 00:35:49.920
<v Speaker 2>Holy mother of shit. Okay, this is just like a

641
00:35:50.039 --> 00:35:53.719
<v Speaker 2>rollercoaster and a half, is it. Ever so, and when

642
00:35:53.760 --> 00:35:57.400
<v Speaker 2>she took her life there, she didn't know that the

643
00:35:57.440 --> 00:35:59.679
<v Speaker 2>person she shot had survived or anything yet.

644
00:35:59.719 --> 00:36:02.480
<v Speaker 1>Really, she didn't know that the person she shot was

645
00:36:03.360 --> 00:36:05.480
<v Speaker 1>rough and it was wrong, and she didn't know what

646
00:36:05.480 --> 00:36:08.159
<v Speaker 1>the person was going to survive, So she assumed that

647
00:36:08.199 --> 00:36:11.320
<v Speaker 1>she had killed the right person when everything about what

648
00:36:11.360 --> 00:36:15.800
<v Speaker 1>she thought was incorrect. She had injured severely the incorrect person.

649
00:36:17.320 --> 00:36:19.480
<v Speaker 2>Okay, that is just such a mess.

650
00:36:19.960 --> 00:36:23.119
<v Speaker 1>Which is why taking things into your own hands is

651
00:36:23.159 --> 00:36:25.360
<v Speaker 1>not always right. Because look at the mess it causes.

652
00:36:25.679 --> 00:36:29.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and that family too is now like the dad's

653
00:36:29.159 --> 00:36:32.880
<v Speaker 2>dealing with a son that got murdered, a wife that's

654
00:36:32.920 --> 00:36:35.760
<v Speaker 2>now committed suicide, and he is probably going to be

655
00:36:35.800 --> 00:36:38.400
<v Speaker 2>facing some jail time, I would imagine.

656
00:36:38.920 --> 00:36:39.159
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

657
00:36:39.199 --> 00:36:43.000
<v Speaker 1>He was later charged and pled guilty to accessory after

658
00:36:43.039 --> 00:36:45.559
<v Speaker 1>the fact to assault with an intent to kill for

659
00:36:45.639 --> 00:36:49.000
<v Speaker 1>his role, and ultimately he was sentenced to approximately three

660
00:36:49.079 --> 00:36:49.800
<v Speaker 1>years in jail.

661
00:36:50.039 --> 00:36:52.719
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, that is just such a mess.

662
00:36:52.880 --> 00:36:56.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and this whole vigilante thing, it had no impact

663
00:36:56.679 --> 00:37:01.239
<v Speaker 1>on Chelsea's case whatsoever. Who Well, she's the one who

664
00:37:01.280 --> 00:37:03.159
<v Speaker 1>did it. We're aware of that. We already have the

665
00:37:03.159 --> 00:37:04.159
<v Speaker 1>smoking gun and everything.

666
00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:06.400
<v Speaker 2>I do wonder how like the mom was just so

667
00:37:06.519 --> 00:37:08.920
<v Speaker 2>convinced about this other person, you know.

668
00:37:09.400 --> 00:37:11.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm not too sure how she got to that.

669
00:37:12.360 --> 00:37:15.000
<v Speaker 2>But when you're when you're mourning and your mind isn't

670
00:37:15.039 --> 00:37:19.480
<v Speaker 2>necessarily you know, in its right place, like you could,

671
00:37:20.199 --> 00:37:22.199
<v Speaker 2>I could see how you could fixate on something and

672
00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:23.599
<v Speaker 2>really believe it too.

673
00:37:23.480 --> 00:37:25.760
<v Speaker 1>Oh one hundred percent, which is exactly why I do

674
00:37:25.840 --> 00:37:28.679
<v Speaker 1>not advocate for taking matters into your own hands. Yeah, Like,

675
00:37:28.760 --> 00:37:31.679
<v Speaker 1>there's there are certainly times where I think someone needs

676
00:37:31.679 --> 00:37:35.480
<v Speaker 1>to be more held accountables. Justice has failed. Things moved

677
00:37:35.480 --> 00:37:39.119
<v Speaker 1>too slowly could result in someone getting hurt again. However,

678
00:37:39.199 --> 00:37:42.559
<v Speaker 1>in the same breath, an innocent person almost died because

679
00:37:42.599 --> 00:37:45.400
<v Speaker 1>someone took those matters into their own hands. They got

680
00:37:45.440 --> 00:37:49.320
<v Speaker 1>too blinded by what they were fixated on, and the

681
00:37:49.440 --> 00:37:55.000
<v Speaker 1>truth is always not exactly so easy to see anyways.

682
00:37:55.599 --> 00:37:59.239
<v Speaker 1>After her arrest, Chelsea Perkins was transferred to federal custody

683
00:37:59.400 --> 00:38:03.719
<v Speaker 1>and the folks shifted to prosecution. The evidence against her, well,

684
00:38:03.760 --> 00:38:06.199
<v Speaker 1>it was extensive, to say the least, and prosecutors made

685
00:38:06.239 --> 00:38:10.239
<v Speaker 1>it very clear early on that they had things like

686
00:38:10.280 --> 00:38:12.079
<v Speaker 1>the smoking gun and it was going to be a

687
00:38:12.119 --> 00:38:16.639
<v Speaker 1>slam dunk case, their surveillance footage, DNA ballistics, all of it.

688
00:38:17.880 --> 00:38:18.199
<v Speaker 3>Now.

689
00:38:18.320 --> 00:38:21.760
<v Speaker 1>In an attempt to avoid a trial, prosecutors offered Chelsea

690
00:38:21.880 --> 00:38:25.119
<v Speaker 1>a plea deal. The proposal would have required her to

691
00:38:25.239 --> 00:38:28.519
<v Speaker 1>admit guilt in exchange for a sentence in a range

692
00:38:28.559 --> 00:38:31.559
<v Speaker 1>of twenty seven to thirty one years in prison. It

693
00:38:31.599 --> 00:38:33.920
<v Speaker 1>was a deal that would have guaranteed she would eventually

694
00:38:33.920 --> 00:38:38.679
<v Speaker 1>be released, though only after decades behind bars. Without this offer,

695
00:38:38.840 --> 00:38:42.480
<v Speaker 1>she could be facing life without the possibility of parole,

696
00:38:43.760 --> 00:38:45.239
<v Speaker 1>and Chelsea rejected the deal.

697
00:38:45.920 --> 00:38:46.400
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

698
00:38:47.000 --> 00:38:50.920
<v Speaker 1>Instead, she maintained that while she had in fact killed

699
00:38:51.000 --> 00:38:55.159
<v Speaker 1>Matthew Dunmyer, she's admitting it, the act she committed did

700
00:38:55.199 --> 00:38:58.599
<v Speaker 1>not rise to the level of first degree murder. Her

701
00:38:58.639 --> 00:39:02.719
<v Speaker 1>defense signaled an intention to argue that the killing was

702
00:39:02.760 --> 00:39:06.559
<v Speaker 1>tied to pass trauma and not the result of long

703
00:39:06.719 --> 00:39:11.280
<v Speaker 1>term planning. It's a very risky strategy, to say the least,

704
00:39:11.440 --> 00:39:14.400
<v Speaker 1>especially given the evidence in the existence of things like

705
00:39:14.440 --> 00:39:17.000
<v Speaker 1>the drafted suicide note they found in her phone, which

706
00:39:17.239 --> 00:39:22.320
<v Speaker 1>show premeditation. Now, for years, the case moved slowly through

707
00:39:22.360 --> 00:39:25.960
<v Speaker 1>the federal system. Pre trial motions were filed, evidence was

708
00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:29.840
<v Speaker 1>reviewed and challenged, but all the while, prosecutors remained confident,

709
00:39:30.159 --> 00:39:32.840
<v Speaker 1>while the defense weighed the growing reality that the jury

710
00:39:32.920 --> 00:39:37.480
<v Speaker 1>might see the case very differently than they hoped. Then, finally,

711
00:39:37.800 --> 00:39:40.639
<v Speaker 1>in March of twenty twenty five, just weeks before her

712
00:39:40.679 --> 00:39:46.039
<v Speaker 1>case was scheduled to go to trial, Chelsea Perkins changed course, and,

713
00:39:46.079 --> 00:39:50.000
<v Speaker 1>after years of denying criminal intent and rejecting earlier plea offers,

714
00:39:50.280 --> 00:39:53.599
<v Speaker 1>she entered a guilty plea to second degree murder and

715
00:39:53.679 --> 00:39:56.639
<v Speaker 1>to using and discharging a firearm during a crime of

716
00:39:56.719 --> 00:40:01.440
<v Speaker 1>violence on federal property. As part of the agreement, prosecutors

717
00:40:01.480 --> 00:40:04.199
<v Speaker 1>dropped the first degree murder charge, and the decision spared

718
00:40:04.239 --> 00:40:07.360
<v Speaker 1>both sides a very lengthy trial, but it did not

719
00:40:07.519 --> 00:40:12.000
<v Speaker 1>soften the reality of what Chelsea admitted to doing. In court,

720
00:40:12.360 --> 00:40:15.519
<v Speaker 1>she acknowledged that she had shot Matthew Dunmyer in the

721
00:40:15.559 --> 00:40:19.599
<v Speaker 1>woods of Cuyahouga Valley National Park. When asked directly if

722
00:40:19.639 --> 00:40:26.519
<v Speaker 1>she committed the act, she answered quietly quote yes. At

723
00:40:26.559 --> 00:40:30.360
<v Speaker 1>sentencing in September of twenty twenty five, the judge described

724
00:40:30.400 --> 00:40:32.719
<v Speaker 1>the case as one of the most difficult ones he

725
00:40:32.840 --> 00:40:36.280
<v Speaker 1>had to preside over. He acknowledged the history of trauma

726
00:40:36.360 --> 00:40:39.719
<v Speaker 1>presented by the defense and recognized that Chelsea's actions were

727
00:40:39.719 --> 00:40:44.639
<v Speaker 1>motivated by revenge rather than financial or impulsive gain, or

728
00:40:44.639 --> 00:40:47.519
<v Speaker 1>anything along those lines, but at the same time he

729
00:40:47.639 --> 00:40:50.679
<v Speaker 1>emphasized that the crime was in fact very deliberate. It

730
00:40:50.760 --> 00:40:54.519
<v Speaker 1>involved planning, and resulted in the execution style killing of

731
00:40:54.559 --> 00:40:59.119
<v Speaker 1>an unarmed man. Chelsea Perkins was sentenced to twenty two

732
00:40:59.280 --> 00:41:02.880
<v Speaker 1>and a half year in federal prison. The court allowed

733
00:41:02.880 --> 00:41:05.119
<v Speaker 1>her to serve her time in a facility closer to

734
00:41:05.159 --> 00:41:08.519
<v Speaker 1>her family, which was a small concession with credit for

735
00:41:08.599 --> 00:41:11.760
<v Speaker 1>time served, so she will likely be in her mid

736
00:41:11.840 --> 00:41:16.119
<v Speaker 1>to late fifties before she's eligible for release. Chelsea at

737
00:41:16.159 --> 00:41:19.480
<v Speaker 1>sentencing stood firm, and she told the court she accepted

738
00:41:19.519 --> 00:41:23.159
<v Speaker 1>responsibility for her actions, and when she was led away

739
00:41:23.239 --> 00:41:26.679
<v Speaker 1>to begin her sentence, the legal system considered the case finished.

740
00:41:27.280 --> 00:41:30.079
<v Speaker 1>For everyone else involved, The impact was only beginning, though.

741
00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:33.440
<v Speaker 1>Matthew Dunmyer, while he was thirty one years old when

742
00:41:33.440 --> 00:41:35.840
<v Speaker 1>he was killed, he never saw his children grow up,

743
00:41:36.199 --> 00:41:40.079
<v Speaker 1>and whatever complexities existed in his life, whatever allegations followed him,

744
00:41:40.519 --> 00:41:44.320
<v Speaker 1>his death froze everything in place. His children would come

745
00:41:44.360 --> 00:41:47.760
<v Speaker 1>to know their father through memories through secondhand stories in

746
00:41:47.800 --> 00:41:51.440
<v Speaker 1>court records rather than presents. His absence created a void

747
00:41:51.519 --> 00:41:55.639
<v Speaker 1>that no ruling or sentence could ever repair. Chelsea's children,

748
00:41:55.960 --> 00:41:58.320
<v Speaker 1>while they were young when their mother was arrested, they

749
00:41:58.360 --> 00:42:01.079
<v Speaker 1>are now watching her through prison visits. It's media coverage

750
00:42:01.119 --> 00:42:04.199
<v Speaker 1>and legal headlines instead of everyday life. By the time

751
00:42:04.239 --> 00:42:06.960
<v Speaker 1>she's eligible for release, they will be adults who spent

752
00:42:07.039 --> 00:42:10.719
<v Speaker 1>most of their formative years without her. The consequences of

753
00:42:10.760 --> 00:42:14.760
<v Speaker 1>her decision extended far beyond the man that she killed. Now,

754
00:42:14.800 --> 00:42:18.440
<v Speaker 1>this case offers no clean moral resolution like many of

755
00:42:18.440 --> 00:42:21.800
<v Speaker 1>our cases actually do. Instead, though this one forces some

756
00:42:22.039 --> 00:42:27.039
<v Speaker 1>very uncomfortable questions about trauma, justice and the limits of

757
00:42:27.079 --> 00:42:31.559
<v Speaker 1>the legal system. Chelsea Perkins reported that Matthew dun Meyer

758
00:42:31.679 --> 00:42:36.480
<v Speaker 1>had sexually assaulted and raped her years earlier. Prosecutors reviewed

759
00:42:36.480 --> 00:42:40.639
<v Speaker 1>the allegations and declined to file charges, citing insufficient evidence,

760
00:42:40.880 --> 00:42:45.599
<v Speaker 1>and Matthew Dunmeyer was never convicted of that crime. For

761
00:42:45.719 --> 00:42:49.719
<v Speaker 1>many survivors of sexual violence, this outcome is painfully familiar.

762
00:42:50.480 --> 00:42:53.920
<v Speaker 1>Most assaults are never reported. Of those that are few,

763
00:42:54.519 --> 00:42:57.519
<v Speaker 1>while the few resultant charges or convictions, victims have a

764
00:42:57.519 --> 00:43:00.840
<v Speaker 1>fear of retaliation, how they're going to be pursued, and

765
00:43:01.119 --> 00:43:04.079
<v Speaker 1>the burden of proof. Well, it often leaves victims feeling

766
00:43:04.199 --> 00:43:08.760
<v Speaker 1>very exposed and very unprotected. So when justice feels out

767
00:43:08.800 --> 00:43:12.000
<v Speaker 1>of reach, the emotional weight does not disappear. It lingers,

768
00:43:12.400 --> 00:43:16.000
<v Speaker 1>and it simmers, and it results in people taking matter

769
00:43:16.079 --> 00:43:18.880
<v Speaker 1>into their own hands. And there is an old saying,

770
00:43:18.920 --> 00:43:21.760
<v Speaker 1>I will put it here just for context, because hey,

771
00:43:22.199 --> 00:43:26.400
<v Speaker 1>I think it fits dramatically. Two wrongs do not make

772
00:43:26.679 --> 00:43:31.360
<v Speaker 1>a right. Whether Matthew did what Chelsea alleged is never

773
00:43:31.480 --> 00:43:34.559
<v Speaker 1>going to be known. But what we do know is

774
00:43:34.599 --> 00:43:37.039
<v Speaker 1>people who commit crimes like that get away with it

775
00:43:37.440 --> 00:43:40.880
<v Speaker 1>far too often. And Chelsea clearly felt a need to

776
00:43:40.920 --> 00:43:44.960
<v Speaker 1>take matters into her own hands, just like well Matthew's

777
00:43:44.960 --> 00:43:49.639
<v Speaker 1>mother did. What followed in this case was not justice,

778
00:43:50.039 --> 00:43:54.159
<v Speaker 1>though many people sought to find it. It was instead escalation.

779
00:43:55.000 --> 00:44:00.320
<v Speaker 1>Planning replaced accountability, revenge replaced due process. And for that reason,

780
00:44:00.440 --> 00:44:04.039
<v Speaker 1>I do not think anyone is guilt free in this story.

781
00:44:04.119 --> 00:44:07.039
<v Speaker 1>It's just too hard to let someone walk away with

782
00:44:07.079 --> 00:44:10.880
<v Speaker 1>a crime. The trail where Matthew was found eventually returned

783
00:44:10.880 --> 00:44:14.760
<v Speaker 1>to silence. Hikers passed through once again. Seasons have changed,

784
00:44:14.760 --> 00:44:17.360
<v Speaker 1>but for the people left behind, the story has not faded.

785
00:44:18.000 --> 00:44:21.440
<v Speaker 1>It became something they carried forward, a reminder of how

786
00:44:21.559 --> 00:44:26.480
<v Speaker 1>quickly unresolved trauma can spiral into irreversible harm, and how violence,

787
00:44:26.920 --> 00:44:32.440
<v Speaker 1>once unleashed, rarely remains contained. The law closed this file,

788
00:44:33.400 --> 00:44:38.719
<v Speaker 1>but the consequences did not. And that's the story of

789
00:44:38.800 --> 00:44:40.960
<v Speaker 1>Matthew Dunmeyer and Chelsea Perkins.

790
00:44:43.119 --> 00:44:45.239
<v Speaker 2>Oh, that one's rough.

791
00:44:45.679 --> 00:44:48.320
<v Speaker 1>It is rough, And I mentioned that we would kind

792
00:44:48.320 --> 00:44:50.400
<v Speaker 1>of talk about some of the gray areas of why

793
00:44:50.400 --> 00:44:53.199
<v Speaker 1>there's so many gray areas in this case, it's because

794
00:44:53.679 --> 00:44:57.679
<v Speaker 1>everything did not get resolved in court. The first one,

795
00:44:57.760 --> 00:45:01.760
<v Speaker 1>the alleged sexual allegations. Those never went to trial due

796
00:45:01.800 --> 00:45:04.679
<v Speaker 1>to insufficient evidence, so we don't know what evidence was

797
00:45:04.719 --> 00:45:08.599
<v Speaker 1>put forth. Those never made it public. And in Chelsea's case,

798
00:45:08.760 --> 00:45:11.199
<v Speaker 1>she took a plea deal, So her story on what

799
00:45:11.239 --> 00:45:15.360
<v Speaker 1>their meeting was about or how things began again, we'll

800
00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:17.239
<v Speaker 1>never see the light of day because it didn't go

801
00:45:17.280 --> 00:45:20.239
<v Speaker 1>to trial to become public information. Right, So all that

802
00:45:20.679 --> 00:45:24.199
<v Speaker 1>is taped away in boxes through her accounts that she

803
00:45:24.280 --> 00:45:27.880
<v Speaker 1>may never tell and will not We won't know unless

804
00:45:27.880 --> 00:45:29.320
<v Speaker 1>she chooses to speak out.

805
00:45:30.039 --> 00:45:34.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's very tough because like in her mind, I'm

806
00:45:34.559 --> 00:45:39.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure she you know, felt he needed to die, right, Yeah,

807
00:45:39.480 --> 00:45:43.599
<v Speaker 2>because of what he did to her. And maybe she's

808
00:45:43.639 --> 00:45:46.840
<v Speaker 2>totally fine paying the price for that now, right, But that,

809
00:45:47.239 --> 00:45:49.480
<v Speaker 2>like you said, too, wrongs do not make it right

810
00:45:49.559 --> 00:45:52.960
<v Speaker 2>because the life that she's getting to live now, I

811
00:45:53.039 --> 00:45:54.559
<v Speaker 2>mean can't be great.

812
00:45:55.119 --> 00:45:59.199
<v Speaker 1>No. Well, and Matthew's mother's gone, another person got shot

813
00:45:59.199 --> 00:46:02.519
<v Speaker 1>and drug into it. His father is also serving time

814
00:46:02.559 --> 00:46:06.119
<v Speaker 1>in jail. Like it's it creates more chaos. Yeah, don't

815
00:46:06.119 --> 00:46:10.719
<v Speaker 1>get me wrong, I personally am an advocate for there

816
00:46:10.760 --> 00:46:14.760
<v Speaker 1>needs to be harsher things. Harsher penalties are charges in

817
00:46:14.800 --> 00:46:18.039
<v Speaker 1>accordance to sexual predators, especially when it comes to those

818
00:46:18.360 --> 00:46:23.119
<v Speaker 1>who target children. There needs to be some more shit done. However,

819
00:46:24.159 --> 00:46:28.719
<v Speaker 1>there's a fine fine line. You need to still have evidence,

820
00:46:28.760 --> 00:46:31.360
<v Speaker 1>you need to still be able to prove things. But

821
00:46:31.480 --> 00:46:33.360
<v Speaker 1>at the same time, of course, people don't want to

822
00:46:33.360 --> 00:46:36.119
<v Speaker 1>speak up. It's becomes a story of their word versus

823
00:46:36.199 --> 00:46:39.440
<v Speaker 1>their word. It's such a convoluted situation. There is no

824
00:46:39.599 --> 00:46:42.800
<v Speaker 1>right answer. But certainly taking matters into your own hands

825
00:46:42.960 --> 00:46:46.719
<v Speaker 1>is going to result in other shit happening, not necessarily

826
00:46:46.760 --> 00:46:49.920
<v Speaker 1>just to you, but other people too. It's not going

827
00:46:50.000 --> 00:46:51.000
<v Speaker 1>to end the way you think.

828
00:46:51.639 --> 00:46:54.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean I said it earlier, like just a mess.

829
00:46:54.280 --> 00:46:56.960
<v Speaker 2>This is a mess. I couldn't imagine the investigators, you know,

830
00:46:57.719 --> 00:46:59.960
<v Speaker 2>like just waiting for what's going to happen next.

831
00:47:00.159 --> 00:47:02.880
<v Speaker 1>Really no kidding in this, so no kidding.

832
00:47:02.920 --> 00:47:06.199
<v Speaker 2>And it is really too bad though that there wasn't

833
00:47:06.320 --> 00:47:10.679
<v Speaker 2>enough evidence, right, and like you've said, in a lot

834
00:47:10.679 --> 00:47:13.199
<v Speaker 2>of cases, there isn't enough evidence when it comes to

835
00:47:13.280 --> 00:47:16.840
<v Speaker 2>sexual assaults and stuff, and that it sucks.

836
00:47:17.199 --> 00:47:19.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well in a lot of cases too, Like sexual

837
00:47:19.880 --> 00:47:24.679
<v Speaker 1>assaults take advantage of women and people in terrible situations.

838
00:47:25.239 --> 00:47:28.000
<v Speaker 1>Maybe it's someone who you know what could be homeless

839
00:47:28.159 --> 00:47:33.400
<v Speaker 1>or struggling with addictions. Authorities have a very bad rap

840
00:47:33.440 --> 00:47:37.719
<v Speaker 1>of not listening or believing people in those situations. Oh yeah,

841
00:47:37.880 --> 00:47:40.880
<v Speaker 1>so people just get away with it and keep walking, right,

842
00:47:41.159 --> 00:47:43.599
<v Speaker 1>nothing happens. Who are they going to believe the person

843
00:47:43.639 --> 00:47:46.239
<v Speaker 1>who sexually assaulted them or the person who's living on

844
00:47:46.280 --> 00:47:50.360
<v Speaker 1>a street, And do you have that perspective? Authorities just, well,

845
00:47:50.360 --> 00:47:54.599
<v Speaker 1>it's bias. And so now people who hear these stories

846
00:47:54.599 --> 00:47:57.000
<v Speaker 1>of biasness, well, they don't want to come forward because

847
00:47:57.000 --> 00:48:00.679
<v Speaker 1>they don't want to be rejected or ridiculed. Of course,

848
00:48:00.760 --> 00:48:04.599
<v Speaker 1>even if you have a situation of two individuals that

849
00:48:04.639 --> 00:48:07.079
<v Speaker 1>the police will respect and listen to equally, it becomes

850
00:48:07.119 --> 00:48:09.400
<v Speaker 1>their word versus your word. What evidence do you have?

851
00:48:10.519 --> 00:48:13.280
<v Speaker 1>Sexual assaults? Guess what, they don't happen right in front

852
00:48:13.280 --> 00:48:15.599
<v Speaker 1>of a camera. You don't have a rape kit or

853
00:48:15.800 --> 00:48:17.719
<v Speaker 1>anything like that. You're not doing an interview with them,

854
00:48:17.719 --> 00:48:20.199
<v Speaker 1>trying to get like secret audio of like tell me

855
00:48:20.239 --> 00:48:22.000
<v Speaker 1>you're raping me right now so I can give it

856
00:48:22.000 --> 00:48:24.880
<v Speaker 1>to evident like that. It just doesn't happen. What evidence

857
00:48:24.920 --> 00:48:25.599
<v Speaker 1>can you find?

858
00:48:26.039 --> 00:48:28.599
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, and even maybe at one point, like it

859
00:48:28.760 --> 00:48:31.599
<v Speaker 2>was consensual and then it turned not right, and so

860
00:48:31.679 --> 00:48:33.559
<v Speaker 2>then it's like, how do you go about proving that

861
00:48:33.639 --> 00:48:36.000
<v Speaker 2>it's just really hard and not Okay?

862
00:48:36.639 --> 00:48:42.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so it's it's a tough situation, but authorities certainly

863
00:48:42.199 --> 00:48:44.199
<v Speaker 1>need to be trying to evolve it and do more

864
00:48:44.199 --> 00:48:48.519
<v Speaker 1>in those situations. But again, where does that answer lie?

865
00:48:48.880 --> 00:48:51.679
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I just do know that two wrongs

866
00:48:51.679 --> 00:48:52.440
<v Speaker 1>do not make it right.

867
00:48:52.559 --> 00:48:54.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. No, that's really the best way you can put

868
00:48:54.639 --> 00:48:57.880
<v Speaker 2>it for this case, because yeah, a lot of people

869
00:48:57.960 --> 00:49:02.519
<v Speaker 2>have have have to deal with shit going forward now

870
00:49:02.559 --> 00:49:05.480
<v Speaker 2>to like Chelsea's kids, right, they don't have their mom

871
00:49:05.519 --> 00:49:08.519
<v Speaker 2>with them, so that I don't know, that's not great

872
00:49:08.800 --> 00:49:09.840
<v Speaker 2>for them.

873
00:49:10.079 --> 00:49:12.679
<v Speaker 1>The entire thing is really a tragedy. And honestly, I

874
00:49:12.679 --> 00:49:15.400
<v Speaker 1>could go on forever on this one, because there's the

875
00:49:15.400 --> 00:49:18.679
<v Speaker 1>more you dig, the more your perception and opinions change,

876
00:49:18.719 --> 00:49:20.920
<v Speaker 1>and you go this way that way, and you talk.

877
00:49:21.159 --> 00:49:23.360
<v Speaker 1>I'm debating myself in my own mind over this one.

878
00:49:23.400 --> 00:49:25.199
<v Speaker 1>So I could go on forever. But I do want

879
00:49:25.239 --> 00:49:26.840
<v Speaker 1>to thank you guys for being here. This is quite

880
00:49:27.159 --> 00:49:29.480
<v Speaker 1>the story. Let us know your opinion. If you have

881
00:49:29.519 --> 00:49:31.880
<v Speaker 1>any shoot us a message in email or comment or

882
00:49:31.880 --> 00:49:33.960
<v Speaker 1>anything like that. Links are all on the description of

883
00:49:33.960 --> 00:49:37.079
<v Speaker 1>this podcast. We really appreciate you being here. Because of you,

884
00:49:37.239 --> 00:49:39.000
<v Speaker 1>we get to keep doing what we do. We're an

885
00:49:39.039 --> 00:49:43.639
<v Speaker 1>independent podcast, researched, host it, produce all of it. It's us.

886
00:49:44.039 --> 00:49:46.559
<v Speaker 1>We are a team. There's no one pulling the strings.

887
00:49:46.199 --> 00:49:48.840
<v Speaker 2>But us, just us, just us.

888
00:49:49.360 --> 00:49:51.400
<v Speaker 1>Just highlight the word just ready.

889
00:49:51.519 --> 00:49:56.039
<v Speaker 2>I know you like that, So until next time, stay wicked.
