Speaker 1: Welcome to Readers Syndicate, the only cannabis show breaking down
Speaker 1: the myths and.
Speaker 2: History in cannabis. I'm Matthew, seed maker for over a decade.
Speaker 1: And a half and this is my journey into finding
Speaker 1: my truth in this wild world of cannabis.
Speaker 2: I invite you to.
Speaker 1: Join me and the can Illuminati by strapping into the
Speaker 1: passenger seat.
Speaker 3: But be worn, it's not always pretty.
Speaker 1: With the invasion of corporate culture into cannabis, it's getting
Speaker 1: even more muddy, which is why I've made up my
Speaker 1: mission to have a permanent record before all the history
Speaker 1: is lost and buried under a pile of cookies. We're
Speaker 1: the Traditional Marketing Syndicate is a collection of seed bakers
Speaker 1: that want to push back against all the smoking mirrors.
Speaker 2: In doing so, we will continue to ruffle the feathers
Speaker 2: of those who oppose, and.
Speaker 1: My personal mission has become much bigger than myself. Welcome
Speaker 1: to the cannabis underground. This is the revolution. Welcome to
Speaker 1: Reader Syndicate. I'm Matthew here with my co hosts thousand four.
Speaker 2: Today we will be talking about the Codex and thousand
Speaker 2: and fold. Would you like to give them an introduction
Speaker 2: on the Codex A brief one, what it is and
Speaker 2: what it means.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Sure, so I think this episode is almost an
Speaker 3: extension of the episode that we call the name Game
Speaker 3: on the cannabis information space, And yeah, we are launching
Speaker 3: our own quote unquote strained database that we're calling the Codex,
Speaker 3: and certainly, you know, we're going to talk about databases
Speaker 3: out there like file Us, Leafly, seed Finders, strainly and
Speaker 3: how we got to the Codex idea ourselves, and how
Speaker 3: we got to building that yep, and implicitly like make
Speaker 3: a comparison between all these different WED databases and you
Speaker 3: know what we think is good and we think is
Speaker 3: bad about each of them and what they contributed to,
Speaker 3: you know, a sense of cannabis and cannabis history. So far,
Speaker 3: that's good. Yeah. So I don't know the Codex itself.
Speaker 3: I think we'll save most of the details for the end.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I think all we can say right now
Speaker 3: is that this is something that I built with the
Speaker 3: help of Ousia and Anodine from the British Syndicate of course,
Speaker 3: in consultation with Mett the whole time. And yeah, we
Speaker 3: built it earlier in the year. So yeah, that's really exciting,
Speaker 3: and I don't know, Matt, I think we'll get back
Speaker 3: to it more fully later. Is anything you want to
Speaker 3: say at this point about the codex?
Speaker 2: You know, it's just one of those things that I
Speaker 2: felt always needed to be done, you know, like correctly.
Speaker 2: And I've always had this goal in mind of how
Speaker 2: to do it correctly, but never a way to do
Speaker 2: it correctly. And I think that there's a big demand
Speaker 2: for it. I know there are other things out there
Speaker 2: that people consider efficient only because maybe they're their understanding
Speaker 2: of cannabis genetics is different than mine, so the perspective
Speaker 2: might be different. But yeah, that's about where I'll leave
Speaker 2: for now, and we'll jump into it and go deeper.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think to kind of start the countdown,
Speaker 3: so to speak, we're she's going to go through yet.
Speaker 3: Like I mentioned, these these are quote unquote major cannabis databases,
Speaker 3: and the first one that we have discussed or sorry
Speaker 3: I should say, Matt, you know historically has mentioned a
Speaker 3: number of times everyone's favorite filos, Yes, Filos.
Speaker 2: So this is a tough one because this is a
Speaker 2: major corporation. I remember when I first spoke out about them,
Speaker 2: I know I was concerned because no one had my
Speaker 2: back at the time. It was it was it was
Speaker 2: a little big, It was a little bit much, you know,
Speaker 2: one guy going against a mega corp at the time,
Speaker 2: which as far as mega corps go, there that mega.
Speaker 2: But for cannabis at the time, they were making a
Speaker 2: big splash, and they were backed and co signed by
Speaker 2: many of the most respected like scientists and genetics, geneticists
Speaker 2: and breeders in cannabis. They all of them co signed it.
Speaker 2: So the promise of Filos initially was that they could
Speaker 2: show variance and breeding data or I'm trying to think
Speaker 2: of the best words for it, but basically they could
Speaker 2: tell you how uniform it will or won't breed. And
Speaker 2: they tried to say that they could tell you or
Speaker 2: like basically idea was to match you up with someone
Speaker 2: across the country who has equal but opposite genetic variance
Speaker 2: to you, so you could then combine them and make
Speaker 2: this amazing f one hybrid. That was the initial promise
Speaker 2: and I think that even Philos would agree that that
Speaker 2: was their initial statement how they came out, and that
Speaker 2: sounded great for me, like being able to understand something,
Speaker 2: you know, take take the material and find out how
Speaker 2: it's going to breed without having to breed with. It's
Speaker 2: pretty interesting. You know. There could be clones that are
Speaker 2: entered that I'm about to breed with, and I can
Speaker 2: go look and say, oh, oh, it breeds very narrow,
Speaker 2: So maybe I should match it up with this as
Speaker 2: opposed to this Polly hybrid or you know what have you?
Speaker 3: On one thing? Met here? Was it the first kind
Speaker 3: of public well publicly accessible project in cannabis that involved like,
Speaker 3: I don't know if this is the right term. Is
Speaker 3: it like genomic mapping or some kind of genetic mapping.
Speaker 2: I don't think so. I think medicinal genomics was before them,
Speaker 2: and there might have been one before however.
Speaker 3: So it wasn't the first attempt.
Speaker 2: At this correct however, it was I think the first
Speaker 2: big money attempted this, and the first time where all
Speaker 2: these massive breeders co signed something and immediately went behind it.
Speaker 2: Guys like Rob Clark, my friend time and he spoke
Speaker 2: about this since you know, lots of people co signed
Speaker 2: it and we're all about it, you know, Yeah, did
Speaker 2: you talk about.
Speaker 3: This with Chimera on one of the episodes.
Speaker 2: I may have, I am sure, because it's how we
Speaker 2: but it is right right, Okay, So yeah, I mean,
Speaker 2: like I said, I was very outspoken about it. And
Speaker 2: when I finally started having interactions with them because I
Speaker 2: you know, I had a certain spidy sense going off
Speaker 2: because they were saying they could do also after they
Speaker 2: said this this genetic testing to see how variant it is,
Speaker 2: they started saying they could do genetic testing to see
Speaker 2: relative data like seeing parental data, seeing like s ones,
Speaker 2: to mother data, seeing you know, cousins, all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 2: They were claiming that if they were in their database,
Speaker 2: they could prove or disprove genetic relation and show how
Speaker 2: they're related, which for any breeder, what.
Speaker 3: Everyone had been dreaming of.
Speaker 2: It is my dream to have this happen in Canada,
Speaker 2: like absolute dream. But usually when someone tells me that
Speaker 2: they can present me with my dream, immediately I'm skeptical
Speaker 2: because that's just my instinct, like, why are you trying
Speaker 2: to sell me my dream? This sounds almost This hasn't
Speaker 2: been done in cannabis that I know of to this extent,
Speaker 2: and all these breeders are backing it. Can I ask
Speaker 2: you some questions? So they did get back to me,
Speaker 2: and to their credit, they called me, they're willing to
Speaker 2: take questions. I asked the questions like could you tell
Speaker 2: an S one from blah blah blah, and they said, yes,
Speaker 2: we can for sure tell an S one from its
Speaker 2: mother blah blah blah. And they offered me some free
Speaker 2: testing kids. Now, these were very expensive at the time,
Speaker 2: so I was like, well, that's nice of them, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean, Like, that's nice of them. They
Speaker 2: give me free testing kids. Maybe they aren't so bad,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: But I had some more.
Speaker 2: Questions for them, and I don't recall what they were
Speaker 2: off off hand. I could look at my email and
Speaker 2: find them. But I had more questions for them, and
Speaker 2: I felt like their answer again was super dodgy. So
Speaker 2: again I became kind of skeptical. I'm more on the
Speaker 2: skeptical side because like, now they're giving me gifts, they're
Speaker 2: promising me the world or my dream.
Speaker 3: At least they're.
Speaker 2: Giving me free gifts to so I can see this
Speaker 2: genetic relation, and still no one's being skeptical anywhere about it. Slowly,
Speaker 2: but surely, they had someone pop out from their company
Speaker 2: that was, I want to say, VP of marketing. I
Speaker 2: might be incorrect, I might be miss speaking on that,
Speaker 2: but allegedly this person was VP of marketing and it
Speaker 2: was confirmed later by Pilos, and she had a lot
Speaker 2: to say about what they could and couldn't do. She
Speaker 2: said that they have artificially and this is this is
Speaker 2: her saying this, not me. It's alleged that they had
Speaker 2: artificially shifted the galaxy, which I don't know anything about.
Speaker 2: I couldn't prove it, but that was her claim. And
Speaker 2: she said that, you know, like they showed preference to
Speaker 2: big spenders, which was interesting. And you know, she said
Speaker 2: that they don't do long read testing there, which was
Speaker 2: the most interesting to me because if they don't do
Speaker 2: long read testing, it means that they're not getting the
Speaker 2: full genetic read. And later on after talking to someone
Speaker 2: else as having an explained which I didn't understand at
Speaker 2: the time, they were having something called short read done.
Speaker 2: And when you do short read, you're trying to compare
Speaker 2: a short read to short read, but because of how
Speaker 2: the clips work, they might not be clipped at the
Speaker 2: same spot, so you'll never see that same genetic relation.
Speaker 2: And the reason they were doing short read is because
Speaker 2: it was cheaper, and Filos allegedly I have to be
Speaker 2: so careful. Was hiring out a lab to do the testing.
Speaker 2: They were not an actual lab. They were having other
Speaker 2: people do the testing. So again it was it was
Speaker 2: trying to save money and it shortcut their data so
Speaker 2: hard that they weren't able to do what they were
Speaker 2: claiming allegedly. Now, how we were able to test.
Speaker 3: It was, I was going to just make sure that
Speaker 3: you get into.
Speaker 2: The allegedly someone sent in someone that I trust that
Speaker 2: that's a very good librariy and sentence samples two filos
Speaker 2: of a parent plant and S one of that plant
Speaker 2: you know, and uh some other stuff, and like hybrids
Speaker 2: of that mother plant that they made the S onees
Speaker 2: of just to see like how these were coming back,
Speaker 2: and yeah, they were coming back. Not related at all,
Speaker 2: not even a little bit like the mother. The two
Speaker 2: parent plants of one of the hybrids came back is
Speaker 2: not being related and none of them were related to
Speaker 2: each other, which we knew was incorrect, but because we
Speaker 2: wanted to be through, we assumed that we had somehow
Speaker 2: messed up and started from scratch, just to be sure
Speaker 2: that we got the right cuts from the right mom
Speaker 2: sent them in labeled correctly, so always operating on the
Speaker 2: assumption that we were incorrect, you know, and we did
Speaker 2: this I think three times total, where we went back
Speaker 2: and forth with them. They're like, no, our science is perfect,
Speaker 2: blah blah blah, these are obviously not related. You must
Speaker 2: have made a mistake. And was Okay, well, we're gonna
Speaker 2: go ahead and do this, redo this again. We're gonna
Speaker 2: make sure there's no mistakes and send it in second time,
Speaker 2: same thing, third time, bam, same thing, And unfortunately a
Speaker 2: week later, Filo shut down their genetic testing after their
Speaker 2: third response because it was harding to get serious. Because
Speaker 2: if someone promises they can do something very loudly as
Speaker 2: their marketing as I understand it, they need to then
Speaker 2: deliver on that science. If the science cannot do what
Speaker 2: they're claiming it does and they take money for this service,
Speaker 2: I think that puts them in a really awkward position
Speaker 2: even a few years later, like because they're still operating
Speaker 2: as the same company. So it's always interested me. But
Speaker 2: the problem is no one's really able to or speak
Speaker 2: really speaks out about this because again everybody seems like
Speaker 2: they are scared of confronting this corporation. But it doesn't
Speaker 2: do any good. To be quiet about it because so
Speaker 2: many people are basing their conclusions on this allegedly bunk
Speaker 2: genetic data. And the thing that was real weird was
Speaker 2: that some stuff lined up pretty well and that was cool,
Speaker 2: but a lot of stuff didn't. And the problem is
Speaker 2: with data like that, when you have erroneous data, you
Speaker 2: cannot use any of it because you cannot pick and
Speaker 2: choose what you think work by bias, and that's what
Speaker 2: would happen, So you have to toss it all this.
Speaker 3: For me, right, like just thinking about the way that
Speaker 3: you you guys tested them. Right. For me, what's buzzy
Speaker 3: is that from their point of view, from like a
Speaker 3: risk management point of view, they should have known that
Speaker 3: this was possible and that someone would do this surely.
Speaker 3: So I'm also kind of still be amused about how
Speaker 3: this unfolded because I'm like, surely that's such a myopic
Speaker 3: strategy what they were doing if they knew what they
Speaker 3: were doing fully anyway, I think someone at some point
Speaker 3: would do this.
Speaker 2: I think maybe like if I had a theory, if
Speaker 2: my own theory, I have no basis other than feelings
Speaker 2: for this theory. So don't vote me allegedly all that
Speaker 2: jazz sarcastically, speculation.
Speaker 3: All of it.
Speaker 2: I would I would think the higher ups maybe didn't
Speaker 2: understand the science or relying on the people doing the
Speaker 2: testing and stuff to tell them how it was going
Speaker 2: to work, and those people didn't understand fully understand the
Speaker 2: cannabis genome. Yeah, just like all the just like all
Speaker 2: the other agricultural people that come into cannabis, thought they
Speaker 2: were going to take over our industry with a bunch
Speaker 2: of PhDs and then all failed out and flunked out
Speaker 2: of cannabis and caused the cannabis collapse. So you know,
Speaker 2: like it's it's not just them that assumed all cannabis
Speaker 2: people were stupid. All PhDs that I know did that
Speaker 2: came into our field. Not all, but like a good
Speaker 2: portion of them, you know, like enough to make it
Speaker 2: a good generalization to be pretty accurate to me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, to me, Filos out of this whole, out of
Speaker 3: this list of databases we're going to go through, is
Speaker 3: the biggest bummer for sure.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: The other ones are kind of like, you know, like
Speaker 3: their pros and cons. You know, some of them are
Speaker 3: like middling in some way, but also they've done certain
Speaker 3: things that are quite cool. This one is just like
Speaker 3: really really kind of hot breaking because the promise was
Speaker 3: so incredible, but the under delivery was so severe that like,
Speaker 3: there's just no salvaging it. I feel like I also
Speaker 3: wanted to say that, you know, we talked a little
Speaker 3: bit about You asked me a little bit about my
Speaker 3: personal journey into the information space on the Name Game
Speaker 3: episode and actually completely forgotten that these websites were really
Speaker 3: important for me too. And the Fireless Galaxy. When I
Speaker 3: first saw it, I was just like, oh my god,
Speaker 3: that's the coolest thing ever. And I couldn't believe it,
Speaker 3: and come to find, of course that I shouldn't have
Speaker 3: believed it as well. It was because what you could see.
Speaker 3: I'll just say this, you know the galaxy. I don't
Speaker 3: know for people who haven't encountered it. The galaxy is
Speaker 3: this visualization of supposed relationships between all these various plants
Speaker 3: in the database. It's like a graph what you call
Speaker 3: a graph, not not like a chart, but like a
Speaker 3: network graph of nodes and links. And why I didn't
Speaker 3: want to highlight this is because I did take some
Speaker 3: inspiration from that for our codex. Even though you know,
Speaker 3: I was still very much a work in progress. There
Speaker 3: was something about that visual model that I wanted to capture,
Speaker 3: and yeah, it was just you know, if Filos actually delivered,
Speaker 3: I think who knows what the downstream consequences would have
Speaker 3: been if they had actually done what they said they
Speaker 3: would do. But yeah, it was it was a place
Speaker 3: that I liked to go into for a while.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just one of the other problems is that
Speaker 2: so many breeders, like serious breeders, have taken this data,
Speaker 2: and I find myself doing it because just like everyone else,
Speaker 2: even though I was really skeptical, I was digging through
Speaker 2: the galaxy because I was still so interested, right, because
Speaker 2: the data is still there, like it could be real.
Speaker 2: I was so interested in it because this is everything
Speaker 2: I want. It answers all the potentially answered all the
Speaker 2: questions that I had about my passion, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean. So a lot of us made conclusions based
Speaker 2: on this data and spoke very matter of factly because
Speaker 2: the science was telling us this right, And even though
Speaker 2: we currently understand now at least from our perspective, that
Speaker 2: it's not reliable, I still find myself having to go
Speaker 2: back and be like, oh wait, that's not the parent
Speaker 2: to that, Why do I still think that I know
Speaker 2: that that's not correct. That it happens daily, absolutely daily,
Speaker 2: I'll be in conversations with other breeders and we'll be
Speaker 2: talking and we'll both know that this is bullshit, and
Speaker 2: we'll still make like be like, well, you know Pilos
Speaker 2: did say, and then we'll catch ourselves be like, and
Speaker 2: it really happens. That's how That's how deeply we trusted
Speaker 2: the science, and how much as a man I consider
Speaker 2: yourself a man of science, how much I normally trust science? Right?
Speaker 3: Yeah, when I when I found it, I was just like, oh, finally,
Speaker 3: finally I found it. Kind of vibe yeah, And I'll
Speaker 3: say this other thing about the galaxy that I was
Speaker 3: personally really interested in. I think the claim was that,
Speaker 3: you know, we had that episode on baselines, right, one
Speaker 3: of the claims was that the galaxy visualization would help
Speaker 3: you actually like identify what the polls, the different the
Speaker 3: multiple poles in the gene pool were, right, so like
Speaker 3: northern lights over there, there's like og over here, and
Speaker 3: there's train wreck all the way out there. And again,
Speaker 3: such a dream if it were real, if it, you know,
Speaker 3: if it actually corresponded with the real thing.
Speaker 2: But yeah, before one of the things that made me
Speaker 2: super skeptical too was as they started adding to filos,
Speaker 2: they started adding these weird categories that meant nothing. They
Speaker 2: had like blueberry is a category they had or no,
Speaker 2: they had blueberry inside hemp. Hemp was a category. O
Speaker 2: G cush was a category. Hayes was a like it
Speaker 2: was just weird shit that like this is a whole category,
Speaker 2: and there were several other that were kind of weird,
Speaker 2: and then you'd dropped into these categories and they never
Speaker 2: really It just I don't know who came up with
Speaker 2: this idea that these felt me.
Speaker 3: I know who it was. It was the same person
Speaker 3: who came up with the Emerald Cup categories. Yeah, sweets
Speaker 3: and dreams, bro Sweets and Duram we got the same guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's It's just like, who is quantifying this as
Speaker 2: og cush? I'd really like to talk to them? Can
Speaker 2: we can we have this discussion? Who who made this
Speaker 2: decision and why is this the scientific conclusion that blueberry
Speaker 2: is hemp all of a sudden, you know, like it
Speaker 2: was it was very confusing, But that was just there
Speaker 2: were so many things like that that constantly popped up
Speaker 2: with them certain relations they were showing that breeding showed
Speaker 2: completely different to me, like the fact that they they
Speaker 2: had rkle not being related to cookies at all, Oh
Speaker 2: G cush not related to cookies, and it was just
Speaker 2: like uh thaie a Thai land race as O G.
Speaker 2: Cush clone just by Rob Clark no less, which I
Speaker 2: you know, I I love Rob Clark. That's that's one
Speaker 2: of my heroes of cannabis. But it was all so
Speaker 2: confusing and I didn't understand what was going on with
Speaker 2: the data. But it was a lot of a lot
Speaker 2: of things that weren't quite conclusive, contradicting each other. I
Speaker 2: don't know, that's that's the best way to put it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I did want to just also point out
Speaker 3: here if everyone that unfortunately, you know, in the past
Speaker 3: episodes we've tried like sharing Matt's screen and going through
Speaker 3: the web pages and all that, but you know, unfortunately
Speaker 3: YouTube doesn't like that at all, so we can't do that.
Speaker 3: It would have been a great episode to do that
Speaker 3: on but sadly, kind of if you want to, if
Speaker 3: you feel like it, pull these websites up as we're
Speaker 3: talking about them and have a look for yourself.
Speaker 2: It's kind of stifled the reviews too, for if your
Speaker 2: chir reviews and all kinds of stuff. Now, so you
Speaker 2: will have to figure some stuff out, but we will.
Speaker 3: We will. Yeah, anything else about filus before we move.
Speaker 2: Just that it's it's again like i'd say, the number
Speaker 2: two cannabis dirty secret other than the bait and switch,
Speaker 2: Like it's it's up there as being like the dirty
Speaker 2: secret a lot of us know about, but like everybody's
Speaker 2: terrified to talk about for whatever reason, because people get
Speaker 2: mad because so many people have based conclusions on this
Speaker 2: blah blah blah.
Speaker 3: Wait, corporation, question from me, is the website still there?
Speaker 3: Can people actually still go and see it?
Speaker 2: I don't know. I do know they stopped after that
Speaker 2: a literal week, and I don't know, maybe it was
Speaker 2: no correlation at all. I'm sure they're going to say
Speaker 2: there was no correlation to it. But a week after
Speaker 2: me and this other person that's taken very seriously in
Speaker 2: our community in front of them about the results, they said,
Speaker 2: no longer doing genetic testing, shutting down, going into auto flowering,
Speaker 2: blah blah blah, see you, and that was it, you know, Yeah,
Speaker 2: it was weird. It was super weird and the timing
Speaker 2: was super interesting.
Speaker 3: I just looked at it. The website is still there,
Speaker 3: but like it's quite different now, and yeah, the whole
Speaker 3: three D galaxy thing has gone, so they yeah they've
Speaker 3: kind of like, yeah, gotted it.
Speaker 2: And that's weird, right, Like think about all the money
Speaker 2: that went into that developing it. Why would they take
Speaker 2: that down? Ever? Why would they do that? Like really
Speaker 2: think about that?
Speaker 3: If that's yeah, yeah, I would say this money wise, Yeah,
Speaker 3: there's not a small amount of money like the people
Speaker 3: who did the web development for that, that would not
Speaker 3: have been cheap there.
Speaker 2: And the other thing is like, you know, like didn't
Speaker 2: people pay for this data? Like what what the hell?
Speaker 2: Like if you they paid for it to be up there,
Speaker 2: it's gone, Like that's interesting. But I mean I guess
Speaker 2: they did tell everyone to download your data getting rid
Speaker 2: of it, and I figured I figured at that point, Oh,
Speaker 2: they're getting rid of it because they don't want to
Speaker 2: get see allegedly h.
Speaker 3: M, I we did you want to gesture towards I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't think you mentioned this. Wasn't there also a
Speaker 3: controversy or around how they were going to use it,
Speaker 3: or like rumors about how they were going to use it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. So that that's what I like called
Speaker 2: the swerve with them was that like they kept acting
Speaker 2: like they were being inappropriately attacked by people, and some
Speaker 2: people were like going public and saying, hey, they're going
Speaker 2: to get your genetic data and rebuild that clone from nothing.
Speaker 2: They really thought that they could take like genetic data
Speaker 2: and like plug it into a I don't know, tissue
Speaker 2: or a cell and regrow their clone from that genetic data,
Speaker 2: which isn't even possible.
Speaker 3: I don't know, Like no, I don't think so.
Speaker 2: I don't think anybody with any scientific understanding was accusing
Speaker 2: them of this. But they were just like you'd see
Speaker 2: them just raging back anytime they were on any kind
Speaker 2: of podcast talking about, yeah, we would never steal genetic
Speaker 2: data because we can't do that, blah blah blah. But
Speaker 2: like when I was going after them and I and
Speaker 2: having real questions for them and talking about what they
Speaker 2: just were saying and doing, that was contradicting just what
Speaker 2: on that, But yeah, we would never you know, rebuild
Speaker 2: from the It's like nobody's saying that, nobody important, nobody
Speaker 2: wody's serious to saying that, but we are saying some
Speaker 2: other stuff. Why won't you address this? And yeah, I
Speaker 2: don't know, Like the people behind Filus were super nice
Speaker 2: and that sucks because like I could have had a
Speaker 2: nice friendship with some of them. I imagine in another life,
Speaker 2: you know, had it not been something where something I'm
Speaker 2: so passionate about was so played with by what I
Speaker 2: considered maybe allegedly cultural vultures. You know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if any of you, by the way, have had
Speaker 3: experiences with Filos, definitely tell us about it in the.
Speaker 2: Comments comment below, if you ever had your stuff tested
Speaker 2: by Filos and let us know what your feelings are.
Speaker 2: Do you think it was real? Do you do you
Speaker 2: trust their data and why? Yeah? I'm interested.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, even or even if you're like me, just
Speaker 3: like a you know, armchair whatever theorist, you know, tell
Speaker 3: tell us how you feel about you know, what eventuated.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm super interested to see the comments on this one.
Speaker 3: Super interested. Yeah. I mean, otherwise we can move on
Speaker 3: to Leafly if you're ready. Matt.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Leafly, shit, I don't even remember when they popped up,
Speaker 2: but like they were probably one of one of the
Speaker 2: biggest I think out of all these sites other than filos,
Speaker 2: which was like a mega corporation, but as far as
Speaker 2: like advertising marketing money spent on stuff like that, I'd
Speaker 2: say they were a much bigger website and probably generated
Speaker 2: a lot more revenue overall than filosh for other companies
Speaker 2: and themselves. I would imagine they were kind of like
Speaker 2: a strained database where they listed what they felt were
Speaker 2: popular strain names, and they would give you blanket like
Speaker 2: generic data about like how much percent Indica and how
Speaker 2: much percent sativa or if it was all Lindika or
Speaker 2: all sativa. You know, most most of the time it
Speaker 2: would just say Indica, sativa or hybrid, you know. And yeah,
Speaker 2: it would tell you like, oh this helps with your
Speaker 2: anxiety and pain, blah blah blah. We give it a
Speaker 2: score of six point four out of nine, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. Like it was stuff like that, and
Speaker 2: it was real goofy. Yeah, yeah, I don't know where
Speaker 2: they got the data, Like there's like I agreed with
Speaker 2: very little on the site ever, And I remember, uh,
Speaker 2: there was a funny picture of a j from Sour
Speaker 2: Fail and he had a pillow that strainly had or
Speaker 2: I'm sorry Lethley had sent him. He had a pillow
Speaker 2: Leafley had sent him that said, uh, sour diesel and
Speaker 2: had like the S and then it had I in
Speaker 2: the corner for Indica and he's like sours, you know,
Speaker 2: like I just remember that really distinctly and kind of
Speaker 2: just snicked funny.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, I don't want to add a couple of things.
Speaker 3: So I believe a lot of the information is crowdsourced,
Speaker 3: so like not okay, I think that the like effects
Speaker 3: section and the smell and flavor section. What they do is,
Speaker 3: like I think anyone can fill out like a survey,
Speaker 3: and then they aggregate this crowdsourced information and present like
Speaker 3: the aggregated results like the top you know, like the
Speaker 3: top scoring things from their reviews. On the one hand,
Speaker 3: it's kind of an interesting concept because as we know,
Speaker 3: these things are very subjective and so okay, like being charitable.
Speaker 3: I can see why one would think that's cool. We'll
Speaker 3: just survey lots of people, and the more people, the
Speaker 3: more information we get than the better information is, which
Speaker 3: sort of makes sense in a broad in a broad way,
Speaker 3: real quick, real quick.
Speaker 2: Let me interject this is also something that Pilos had
Speaker 2: done when they were talking about their legacy clones, and
Speaker 2: it was one of my main questions that I was asking, like,
Speaker 2: how are you determining your legacy clones? How does that work?
Speaker 2: And they were crowdsourcing. I mean, as I understand it,
Speaker 2: they were crowdsourcing. And if they got a bunch of
Speaker 2: people entering the same cut as kim D for example,
Speaker 2: that's legacy KMD. That's the real one original because so
Speaker 2: many people had it must be real. And we know
Speaker 2: that this is like a in cannabis. This is a
Speaker 2: big no no because a lot of times the most
Speaker 2: past cut is the fake one, you know, like it
Speaker 2: just uncirculator. One stays here and another one goes out
Speaker 2: to the masses for twenty dollars a clone at a
Speaker 2: local dispensary. Anyway, I wanted to add that part.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, for sure. And again, like you know, like
Speaker 3: I was saying, broadly speaking from a high level, it
Speaker 3: looks like a somewhat sound strategy for the subjective, you know,
Speaker 3: getting some subjective information in a more objective fashion. Sure,
Speaker 3: but when you consider the idea that like the people
Speaker 3: who are writing reviews of quote called og kush and
Speaker 3: the likelihood of them actually having the same you know,
Speaker 3: the actual same cut or the same flower. Sample is
Speaker 3: so low that ultimately you don't really know what they're
Speaker 3: talking about. You have no idea whether they're actually all
Speaker 3: talking about the same thing or not. Yeah, exact. The
Speaker 3: other thing I would say about no, no, no, I
Speaker 3: was going to say that one of the major I
Speaker 3: think differentiating factors with Leafley as well. I think, out
Speaker 3: of all of these, it's the most mainstream one, I think,
Speaker 3: and it's more targeted at like end consumers. I think, yes,
Speaker 3: people midway of the chain, you know or whatever. Yeah.
Speaker 2: No growers really yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know many
Speaker 2: growers who, like even the people who were brand new
Speaker 2: knew that that Leafly was silly. Like that's just you
Speaker 2: know what I mean, Like, if you're a grower, you
Speaker 2: already know that that's incorrect just by happenstance. I just
Speaker 2: thought that was really interesting.
Speaker 3: Yeah. The the other thing that's worth pointing out as
Speaker 3: well is that they do have lineage information. And I'll
Speaker 3: tell you something funny. I have a really really good
Speaker 3: memory of going there years ago now and seeing that
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure, I'm pretty sure that their og kush
Speaker 3: was still following that, like what is it lemon Taye Pakistani?
Speaker 3: But I did look at it last night, and they
Speaker 3: had improved, like some of the entries, Like I remember
Speaker 3: like they had some fake stuff for Kem Dog as
Speaker 3: well that they've made up and now it's all gone
Speaker 3: and they just say it's like dog but unknown. So
Speaker 3: they've it looks like they've made some effort to clean
Speaker 3: some things up. Good for them, because have you had
Speaker 3: you've had some interactions with them? Have you met?
Speaker 2: No, they're the ones that I've had like zero interactions. Okay, yeah, gotcha,
Speaker 2: Corp Corp.
Speaker 3: What else were they gonna say about these guys?
Speaker 2: I remember them being involved with the Seth Rogan goofy
Speaker 2: shit when he popped up with that allegedly houseplant satire crap,
Speaker 2: and uh was doing his Kim Dowg, the sativa Kim Dowg,
Speaker 2: his house plant sativa named Kim Dowg.
Speaker 3: I did want to pull on one thread, which is
Speaker 3: something you mentioned in the name agame of episode, which
Speaker 3: is like the possible risks in saying that this quote
Speaker 3: unquote strain and again like you know they don't distinguish,
Speaker 3: is this like oh no, that could be wrong. I
Speaker 3: think they do say whether it's a clone or like
Speaker 3: a line. But the danger in them saying, hey, this
Speaker 3: strain is has these effects and it's like somehow really
Speaker 3: reducible to these and like it's easy to quantify them
Speaker 3: like this and that you mentioned, you know, one of
Speaker 3: your questions in the Name Game episode was like, can
Speaker 3: we really call these systems like proper for more medical systems? Yes,
Speaker 3: And the problem with Leefly is that they really make
Speaker 3: it look like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's dangerous. Bro to me, that's dangerous. I think
Speaker 2: it's like like in another world that's probably pretty like
Speaker 2: it would be legal grounds too, Like it's scary, and
Speaker 2: I don't think they want to be in that position.
Speaker 2: I don't think they intend to be in that position.
Speaker 2: I think they're trying to help, but like they just
Speaker 2: don't understand what the thing that they are talking about.
Speaker 2: They don't understand the thing that they are the professing
Speaker 2: to be the all knowing narrators of being what they
Speaker 2: are and how they present themselves. They don't even understand
Speaker 2: the basics of it. If they can't, if they're telling
Speaker 2: you how this is going to affect you, you know,
Speaker 2: the strain that you got at the collective name. This
Speaker 2: is going to affect you this way? Like what the fuck?
Speaker 3: No way? Yeah yeah, I mean on the on the
Speaker 3: on like a hold, I put it on like a
Speaker 3: more positive note. One thing that it does show me,
Speaker 3: if nothing else, is how many people still actually do
Speaker 3: care about this information. Yeah that's so low. So that's
Speaker 3: a nice thing. Like people are some people are buying
Speaker 3: stuff and wanting to know more, and that's cool even
Speaker 3: if you're a smokers you know. Yeah, so it does.
Speaker 3: It does gest towards something I hope bitter, but yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: it is what it is. It is. I don't know
Speaker 3: if there's was there anything else about Leafly.
Speaker 2: That you know, they're just so sat tired, fucking goofy
Speaker 2: that like it's one of those ones where I wish again,
Speaker 2: like I wish shows like this would capture the interest
Speaker 2: of the end user. But I'm not sure there will
Speaker 2: ever be a case where that many people are that
Speaker 2: interested in what they're smoking and why it could potentially
Speaker 2: be affecting them the way they are. Maybe, you know,
Speaker 2: like I just don't see it. Most people just are
Speaker 2: like I don't care what it is, just put it
Speaker 2: in the bolt, give it to me, you know, I
Speaker 2: think that's typically how it goes.
Speaker 3: I think, h how'd I put it. I think there
Speaker 3: will be some percentage of the population that at least
Speaker 3: once some differentiating like information, you know, to be able
Speaker 3: to at least help make the decision. I like to
Speaker 3: hope that there's like a oops, that there's still like
Speaker 3: a significant number of people who do care to a degree.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I hope so, but I just you know, actually
Speaker 2: I take you know what I will say, I've been
Speaker 2: very surprised with the past year, just within the past year,
Speaker 2: how many people have showed up and seem to deeply, deeply.
Speaker 3: Care about that.
Speaker 2: And that's been surprising because I've never really seen it
Speaker 2: be more than twenty in my life at a time.
Speaker 2: And it's you know, even with the forums and stuff,
Speaker 2: there are people that acted like they were super serious
Speaker 2: about it, but like when you would get into serious
Speaker 2: discussions with them about why something is or isn't, like
Speaker 2: in the serious strain discussions, if you went against anything
Speaker 2: that they believed, like hell no, bro, fuck you, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. So nobody was really I don't know,
Speaker 2: it was always a really small group of people that
Speaker 2: were trying to like destroy their own bias too confront
Speaker 2: their own biases.
Speaker 3: I think I could frame that in a way. Okay.
Speaker 3: I think how I see that is that people will
Speaker 3: make some minimal effort to find out something. Yeah, wh
Speaker 3: the information is good or not, it's probably beyond their effort.
Speaker 3: And if you tell them that it's not good information,
Speaker 3: a lot of people just don't want to expend any
Speaker 3: more energy. They just want to have just want to
Speaker 3: like cozy up with the idea that they originally had,
Speaker 3: that they were happy with, and they don't want you
Speaker 3: to like ruin their fuck.
Speaker 2: Yeah that's accurate.
Speaker 3: Uh, Okay, Well, if there's nothing else on leafle we
Speaker 3: can move on to one that you know, I still
Speaker 3: feel quite sentimental about, which is seed find a dot EU.
Speaker 2: Yeah. What do you want me to start with them?
Speaker 3: Uh? Maybe just a general, like a very broad description
Speaker 3: of like what kind of information you can find there.
Speaker 2: So seed Finder is one of the more I think
Speaker 2: serious attempts at trying to capture genetic data presented from
Speaker 2: the breeder side as more of a database, Like it's
Speaker 2: more of a database for seed buyers and breeders, people
Speaker 2: who are deeply interested in seeds and when it started.
Speaker 2: That's mainly what it was. It wasn't a big advertisement,
Speaker 2: it wasn't a big money maker. And yeah it's cool.
Speaker 3: Oh that's actually a sorry that that's maybe something we
Speaker 3: should make a bit more explicit about leafy as well.
Speaker 3: One of the driving incentives is definitely like cross marketing.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's a big, big, big thing. Sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so next to you you're on your like flower
Speaker 3: you know, your your plant strain entry. They're going to
Speaker 3: be like I imagine like dispensaries where you can get this,
Speaker 3: you know, blah blah seed companies where you can get this. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so seed Finder, Yeah, like Matt was saying, seemed mostly
Speaker 3: to be about lineage. They do have like a a
Speaker 3: lot of them do have these like quite long form
Speaker 3: descriptions which are pretty cool, you know, accuracy aside. They
Speaker 3: do have little sections on effects as well, I believe,
Speaker 3: but it doesn't seem like it's much of the focus. Yeah,
Speaker 3: like Matt was saying, seems to mostly be about lineage
Speaker 3: and then some maybe some growing, some reading information I
Speaker 3: can't remember.
Speaker 2: For while they were in integrading like forum data and
Speaker 2: pictures and stuff like that, so little it was really
Speaker 2: helpful for a while as far as like the best
Speaker 2: you could get, and for a long time. I mean
Speaker 2: it's still the best you can get, you know, like
Speaker 2: it's one of the best for doing it, regardless of accuracy.
Speaker 2: What they put together was special for sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And just to make the point as well, I
Speaker 3: think it was also partly crowdsourced, or semi at least
Speaker 3: semi crowdsourced.
Speaker 2: So when it started, they contacted me directly and they
Speaker 2: and they asked me if I would add my strains
Speaker 2: to their site, and I told them, I'm sorry. And
Speaker 2: they were such a small site. I didn't know what
Speaker 2: was going on with them at the time, frankly, and
Speaker 2: I wasn't gonna put a lot of time into someone
Speaker 2: else's website, so I was trying to run my forum
Speaker 2: and ship, you know, and grow and take cuts all
Speaker 2: that stuff. So I wasn't really into that. But they
Speaker 2: were kind enough to add a lot of my strains
Speaker 2: for me and import a lot of the the pictures
Speaker 2: and descriptions and stuff like that. So like, I have
Speaker 2: a very very like soft spot in my heart for
Speaker 2: them because they were very kind to do that. They
Speaker 2: took the time to do that, and they did it
Speaker 2: pretty I mean fairly something is wrong, but like you're
Speaker 2: gonna get a lot wrong when there's like two hundred
Speaker 2: things to add, so like, I don't fault them for
Speaker 2: a lot of bad stuff that they got wrong with mine,
Speaker 2: and they were they're very kind to people.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it definitely struck me as like a fairly or
Speaker 3: you know, relatively earnest project. And I think there's still
Speaker 3: a real charm about going to it because it looks
Speaker 3: so like nineties. I don't know, it looks like it
Speaker 3: definitely looks like it's from the Forum era like this,
Speaker 3: no doubt.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know if it's like done out of
Speaker 2: Spain or something. Thing. It has a lot of like
Speaker 2: Spanish and Central European seed banks linked to it and
Speaker 2: like advertised all over it. Yeah, but I don't know
Speaker 2: some of the some of those banks are kind of
Speaker 2: shifty too, so it's kind of weird.
Speaker 3: It's definitely a bit of a time capsule. I went
Speaker 3: onto it last night again as well, and it looks
Speaker 3: exactly the same. I don't expect it to change ever ever,
Speaker 3: But again I think I did also do another comparison
Speaker 3: like I did on Leefly, where I was like, oh yeah,
Speaker 3: I remember looking at this information here and it was
Speaker 3: quite wrong. I couldn't even tell you what it was.
Speaker 3: Maybe it was like cookies or something. Maybe it was
Speaker 3: like gelato or just one of those. Yes, And I
Speaker 3: think that they had improved it as well. So what's
Speaker 3: interesting is that somehow people are still running it and
Speaker 3: that's kind of cool, yeah, because these things quite a
Speaker 3: lot of work to maintain.
Speaker 2: My last interaction with them it was several years ago,
Speaker 2: and I was reaching out to them because I had
Speaker 2: a wild idea of doing a private genetic database for myself,
Speaker 2: because I was going through their stuff and I was realizing,
Speaker 2: oh my god, this has gotten so crazy. So people
Speaker 2: have put in here that they've made, that they've created,
Speaker 2: what names they've attributed to themselves, what clones they've claimed
Speaker 2: to use, and it had gotten so crazy. So I
Speaker 2: wanted to buy their software to use privately and like
Speaker 2: sign NDAs or whatever I needed to do to get
Speaker 2: them to sell it to me, just to be able
Speaker 2: to use it for myself, for myself and to show
Speaker 2: friends like hey, here it is and I'm the only
Speaker 2: one that can add to it. But never got a response,
Speaker 2: And I understand that because this is this might be
Speaker 2: their you know, livelihood, So why would they do that.
Speaker 2: This is a very highly developed in programmed site. So yeah,
Speaker 2: that was that was the last time I tried to
Speaker 2: talk to them. But yeah, props to them either way.
Speaker 2: Like I wasn't salty about it. If I were in
Speaker 2: their shoes, I probably would have ignored it too.
Speaker 3: Hot, Yeah, yeah, I should say as well. Definitely a
Speaker 3: lot of kudos to them. You know, like any approach
Speaker 3: has trade offs, you know, even hours will and for them,
Speaker 3: you know, they were able to get a lot of data,
Speaker 3: a lot of it is probably quite good data. But I imagine,
Speaker 3: you know, the drawback of any kind of crowdsourcing endeavor
Speaker 3: is it's hard to say that everything's been you know,
Speaker 3: vested in the same way, that everything's as reliable as
Speaker 3: everything else exactly. It's just just one of the trade offs. Really.
Speaker 2: It is a very cool when you do it that way. Literally,
Speaker 2: people were pretending to have seed companies that never existed,
Speaker 2: pretending to make seeds that were never made, and made
Speaker 2: up a fake backstory that they could come back check,
Speaker 2: you know, years later, yeah and start companies. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: I made this back then. Look at my entry on
Speaker 2: seat like like shit, you would't even believe or even
Speaker 2: think to you, you know, but yeah, that's the kind
Speaker 2: of stuff that comes from that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and again I'm sure like they would have tried,
Speaker 3: you know, but when when it's set up like that,
Speaker 3: and when that is the strategy, there's there's definitely a
Speaker 3: limit how much you can go and vet. Like, there's
Speaker 3: so much data on there, there's just no way someone
Speaker 3: could go and come through all of it and verify
Speaker 3: all of it. So yeah, yeah, yeah. The other thing
Speaker 3: I'll point out that I liked, from like a information
Speaker 3: representation standpoint, they did have quite a neat way of
Speaker 3: setting out lineage to a degree.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, the visual presentation of it's.
Speaker 3: Great, Yeah, it was great. The only thing is that
Speaker 3: I think that their format did preclude like more complex
Speaker 3: families or like you know, representing the complex family as well,
Speaker 3: because it's like a uh, that's what I would it's
Speaker 3: like a tree structure, yes, but some families are weirder
Speaker 3: than that.
Speaker 2: How could they ever have imagined freakin' uh, what's it
Speaker 2: called wedding cake? How could they ever have imagined that?
Speaker 2: Like you, if you go look at the genetics for
Speaker 2: this this plant. It's like nine pages long of just
Speaker 2: like a tree of cookies, cross back to cookies, to cookies,
Speaker 2: to cookies to cookies.
Speaker 3: Oh g the cookies.
Speaker 2: It's just it's too it's wild man, some blue power
Speaker 2: in there, yeah it is.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I definitely have like fun memories of spending
Speaker 3: you know, many many an hour on the website.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, Okay.
Speaker 4: Stop one second, go click like somewhere mhm, and click subscribe.
Speaker 2: And then the little bell thing right there and then
Speaker 2: we're good.
Speaker 3: Good, Okay, back to the show and anything else you
Speaker 3: wanted to say about seed Finding.
Speaker 2: No, just that it was, you know, it's it's what
Speaker 2: most people consider the best attempt so far.
Speaker 3: Yeah, shout out, yep, respect, respect strainly. So I'll say this,
Speaker 3: Matt before you get into it. Like, I didn't know
Speaker 3: much about this one because it's more of a marketplace
Speaker 3: and and any kind of marketplace always has a serious
Speaker 3: bias towards North America. So I was just like, it's
Speaker 3: not really for me. But I did go and look
Speaker 3: at it for the first time, like really in any depth,
Speaker 3: like last night. But yeah, before this, I didn't really
Speaker 3: know what it was.
Speaker 2: I'm interested to hear your take on it, bro, I.
Speaker 3: Didn't look too deep. I was like, Okay, they're trying
Speaker 3: to be like the eBay of cannabis. Like they do
Speaker 3: auctions right, and like they do grow gear, they do seed,
Speaker 3: they do clones. Yeah, so pretty pretty comprehensive in terms
Speaker 3: of like stuff that you can get, but also kind
Speaker 3: of like the other websites, really quite overwhelming, Like you
Speaker 3: get lots and lots and lots of brands. It seems
Speaker 3: like almost anyone quote unquote can have stuff on there.
Speaker 3: So maybe a little bit like okay, how do I
Speaker 3: tell like who's legit and who's not. In terms of
Speaker 3: the target market, it's definitely not as mainstream as leafly,
Speaker 3: but yeah, so it's more about growers and breeders than like, yeah,
Speaker 3: smokers whatever. They also sell a pollen I noticed.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, that's a new one. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's what I found just you know, having
Speaker 3: a quick look at what can you tell us smet
Speaker 3: about it?
Speaker 2: So like, oudam, all these people. I have the most
Speaker 2: interaction with these dudes, and it's I can't even say,
Speaker 2: like there are things that I've found that about their
Speaker 2: site from the jump, like they contacted me asked me
Speaker 2: if i'd sell on their site, and I was like,
Speaker 2: I don't know, bro, those kind of shady I don't
Speaker 2: know you. They have had a lot of bad experience
Speaker 2: by this point. And they sent me a thing and
Speaker 2: asked for my Social Security number, and I was like, guys,
Speaker 2: like who are you? And they then, you know, they
Speaker 2: told me who they were and more about them, and
Speaker 2: I understood why what was going on, And they're not
Speaker 2: bad dudes. There are a couple of really nice programmer
Speaker 2: guys like this is their side job. They do this
Speaker 2: as their hobby. Like it's not a big company at all.
Speaker 2: It's just a couple of really nice programmers and they
Speaker 2: just there from another country. They didn't understand like the
Speaker 2: complexities of asking like black market growers for their social
Speaker 2: because what they were trying to do is make it
Speaker 2: easier for people to sign up for to receive credit
Speaker 2: card payments. So that's what the social would be used for,
Speaker 2: signing you up for a virtuant account blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it also left them room for a lot
Speaker 2: of liability, right, So I talked to him about it,
Speaker 2: and like they were like, oh my god, I hadn't
Speaker 2: thought about it from that angle, the liability. No, no,
Speaker 2: we're going to try to figure out a work around
Speaker 2: for this, And they actually went around trying to figure
Speaker 2: it out when Filos. When I was battling Filos, and
Speaker 2: I said, no one had my back. It's not entirely true,
Speaker 2: because after about six months, strainly had my back and
Speaker 2: they came out and you know, made a big public
Speaker 2: announcement on their site about why this is incorrect, what's
Speaker 2: going on here, blah blah blah. And you know, I
Speaker 2: had a lot of admiration for that, because it it's
Speaker 2: not easy to take stands in this in this community,
Speaker 2: and at that time, there was no the pros and
Speaker 2: cons for standing up against a corporation. There were no pros,
Speaker 2: all cons, and they did it anyways because it was
Speaker 2: the right thing to do. So I just you know,
Speaker 2: I've run into problems where people pretend to have my
Speaker 2: seeds on there and are selling fake versions of my packs.
Speaker 2: But like if I let them know, they'll that person's gone.
Speaker 2: They'll never sell on that side again, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean. So I can't like they're doing their at
Speaker 2: least due diligence, and if people report it they they'll
Speaker 2: they'll handle it, so I can't say anything bad about them.
Speaker 2: In fact, like I have nothing but kind warm feelings
Speaker 2: for those.
Speaker 3: Dudes for sure. Yeah, And I mean I'll say this
Speaker 3: as well, because it's a marketplace. Their primary motivator is
Speaker 3: not necessarily data in there, you know, in the same
Speaker 3: way as like seed Finder or leefly Direct. Yeah, just
Speaker 3: about facilitating you know, transactions exactly.
Speaker 2: Easily facilitate transactions between person to person for you know, cannabis,
Speaker 2: genetics or.
Speaker 3: Otherwise, which makes a lot of sense because those things
Speaker 3: are difficult.
Speaker 2: It's necessary and that's the thing, Like despite my own
Speaker 2: stuff being like fake versions of my stuff being sold
Speaker 2: on there all the time, because I think it's necessary
Speaker 2: and I think it's hella like piraty and like cool
Speaker 2: to do. Like I can't hate on it at all.
Speaker 2: There's nothing I can negative I can say about this.
Speaker 2: I'm like, that's kind of punk rock either way, you know,
Speaker 2: like everybody's going to get fucked to some degree. But
Speaker 2: like I think overall, I think it's a neat experience
Speaker 2: and we need the ability to do person to person buying,
Speaker 2: and realistically it's buyer beware and if you're not doing
Speaker 2: your research, then that's on you, you know, Like so
Speaker 2: in that sense, I'm also very supportive of what they do.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's exactly what it's going to point out that
Speaker 3: the onus is less on them and on you know,
Speaker 3: everyone else who's in the community to be vesting each other.
Speaker 3: It's more of a peer peer review process. We'll see exactly.
Speaker 3: Like like like if you're like a dickhead on eBay,
Speaker 3: you know you're not going to get very far.
Speaker 2: So luckily they are way more responsive than eBay. I'm
Speaker 2: really there's they've been so cool over the years, so
Speaker 2: I yeah, I'll shout out to them out.
Speaker 3: So what's cool about what we're doing? I think today
Speaker 3: I didn't really realize is so it's a little bit
Speaker 3: of a history on like these different like online projects,
Speaker 3: whether they're about like e commerce or data or you know,
Speaker 3: like this has been the recent you know, ten to
Speaker 3: twenty years of cannabis in the internet age, in the
Speaker 3: social media age. And yeah, it's because you know, we
Speaker 3: talk a lot about social media, but we haven't talked
Speaker 3: about some of these websites before. So I think now
Speaker 3: that we're getting into it, like this is really cool yeah,
Speaker 3: and this is definitely stuff that I didn't really think
Speaker 3: about us discussing before, so I'm glad we got.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, people people are probably used to hearing me,
Speaker 2: and I talked with someone about this earlier. Like I'm
Speaker 2: often like dismissed because I'm called the hater of the industry,
Speaker 2: you know, because I don't people ask me questions about
Speaker 2: certain breeders, and like it really does from a lot
Speaker 2: of perspectives from people who don't know, like sound like
Speaker 2: I just hate everyone, Like I just am dismissive of
Speaker 2: everything and everyone, But in reality, I have a lot
Speaker 2: of like personal interaction with a lot of these people,
Speaker 2: and it's nice to be able to say something nice
Speaker 2: about good people in the industry because I really, unfortunately
Speaker 2: feel like it's so far and few between as as
Speaker 2: a gray area, like that's what you get. It draws
Speaker 2: a lot of people like that and you have to
Speaker 2: compete with them in the same marketplace, in the same
Speaker 2: industry and the same passion in this case, which is
Speaker 2: really really screwy for a lot of people.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's not like we have a perfect thing
Speaker 3: to show, you know, our codex while exactly of course,
Speaker 3: really excited to talk about it and to launch and
Speaker 3: share it. Of course serious limits. So sure, no one,
Speaker 3: you know, no one's going to get this perfect, at
Speaker 3: least not anytime soon. From what I can tell, we will.
Speaker 3: We will, But like Matt was saying, definitely worth shouting
Speaker 3: out all the like cool cool effort and work and
Speaker 3: time that people have put into this.
Speaker 2: One thing I wanted to say before Filus had their
Speaker 2: their visual galaxy, seed Finder had their galaxy, it was visual,
Speaker 2: so I will say that part too.
Speaker 3: It actually started with nice. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's just
Speaker 3: Filus Firelus Galaxy had all the like bells and whistles.
Speaker 3: It was like, sure did it was three D and
Speaker 3: like you could fly?
Speaker 2: Yeah, this was three D in the same way, but
Speaker 2: it was I don't know where it went. It was
Speaker 2: like a star map type thing on seed Finders.
Speaker 3: Gone.
Speaker 2: I think it's gone. I'm not sure. I don't want
Speaker 2: to say, but I think I had a hard time
Speaker 2: finding it at least last time I looked for it.
Speaker 3: I don't know if I ever saw it.
Speaker 2: That was there from the site start. It was really nice,
Speaker 2: and that's what I really wanted because it was a
Speaker 2: beautiful representation of it. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'll say this, maybe I don't know how
Speaker 3: necessary or a little barb it is, but you know,
Speaker 3: one thing that can be said about seed Funder and Strainly,
Speaker 3: I think you can kind of feel the passion there
Speaker 3: a bit more, Like you can kind of tell that
Speaker 3: these people who like really care and like just trying
Speaker 3: to help and not saying that Leaflely and Filos don't
Speaker 3: care all or don't want to help it all. But
Speaker 3: like you can kind of see that there are other
Speaker 3: motivating factors with those two websites.
Speaker 2: In the comments below, I'd love to hear people's thoughts
Speaker 2: on all of these sites, whether it's Strainly, your your
Speaker 2: experiences exchanging stuff on there, you know, Leefley. I'm sure
Speaker 2: we're gonna have plenty of funny stories about Leafley and
Speaker 2: people's experiences there. Yeah, so please tell.
Speaker 3: Us if nothing else do Strainly Matt, I do want
Speaker 3: to give a couple of shout outs to one broadly,
Speaker 3: the forums of course, Like we've talked about the forums
Speaker 3: plenty as far as they go as sources of information,
Speaker 3: obviously very important, but also obviously extremely noisy and.
Speaker 2: Yeah and extremely complete, extremely incomplete now as well there's noisy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know forums, there's no formalization of the data.
Speaker 3: There aren't like formal models or maps or anything like that.
Speaker 3: You know, just people talking. So obviously still a very
Speaker 3: important site of exchange and information and irreducibly. So I
Speaker 3: wanted to point out one other place that I don't
Speaker 3: know many people know about, and it's called grow Diaries,
Speaker 3: And it sounds a bit naff, but why I like
Speaker 3: it is that they don't do that thing where they say, ah,
Speaker 3: here is keem dog and then it's like anyone growing,
Speaker 3: like any kind of thing that has vaguely got to
Speaker 3: do with cam or says it has to do with
Speaker 3: chemis under it. What they do is clever. They say,
Speaker 3: we go by company and product, and so you can
Speaker 3: specifically look at like say you've bought something, you're looking
Speaker 3: at buying something. You can actually go and look at
Speaker 3: that particular brand or seed company or breeder, look at
Speaker 3: people who are actually growing those seeds and not like
Speaker 3: any kind of weird white label version. And the other
Speaker 3: thing I like about how they present information is that
Speaker 3: they've structured They structure it so that like you can
Speaker 3: kind of choose which week of the grow you want
Speaker 3: to go and look at anytime. To me, they've got
Speaker 3: an example of like good structured information about someone's grow historically,
Speaker 3: and I don't see it presented like that anywhere else.
Speaker 2: Are they're good growers in there?
Speaker 3: I can't say that, Like, I think it's definitely a range.
Speaker 3: It's it's definitely any like anyone anyone can rock up
Speaker 3: and just show.
Speaker 2: Are there are a lot of veteran growers and breeders
Speaker 2: on there.
Speaker 3: I'm wondering. I don't know. I don't know well enough
Speaker 3: to be able to tell you that.
Speaker 2: I wonder.
Speaker 3: It suffers from some of the same limits as the others,
Speaker 3: Like it also does that thing where it tries to
Speaker 3: aggregate like effect information or like they survey like the
Speaker 3: grower and it's like, okay, what did you smell? What
Speaker 3: what effects did you see? But I think they don't
Speaker 3: they don't make as bold a claim like they don't.
Speaker 3: What they don't do is they don't try to like
Speaker 3: abstract from everyone and say like this is the data.
Speaker 3: They just say, this is this person's started, that's that
Speaker 3: person's dot.
Speaker 2: To me that as a grower, yeah, that's fine.
Speaker 3: I mean I think it's like an honest way to
Speaker 3: present information, you know, whatever information that you have without
Speaker 3: overstating it. At the same time, you know, it's still
Speaker 3: also definitely caters towards a more mainstream, growing audience.
Speaker 2: If you go on that site. I could almost bet
Speaker 2: without even going to it that like is like in
Speaker 2: a greenhouse benefit just bam, bam bam the top the top.
Speaker 2: Is that what it like?
Speaker 3: Yeah? The most you know, all those big brands will
Speaker 3: definitely have the most growers and the most diaries.
Speaker 2: Because they represent the biggest part of the marketplace.
Speaker 3: Has to great. Yes, so would be able to find
Speaker 3: riot seeds? I bet I think you could, but it
Speaker 3: may not be as many Humboldt as well. Yeah, but again,
Speaker 3: you know, a point of difference here is that it's
Speaker 3: specific to the product, It's specific to the breeder, and
Speaker 3: you don't have to deal with the weird like what
Speaker 3: what do I call it? Like kind of conflation of varying. Yeah, see,
Speaker 3: like seed products from all kinds of different people. Yeah,
Speaker 3: was it thing else I wanted to say about these guys?
Speaker 3: I think even though I didn't take that much from
Speaker 3: the website, it did give me an idea that, like,
Speaker 3: there are different ways to model cannabis information.
Speaker 2: This is actually pretty.
Speaker 3: Cool structured way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not a bad say, it's kind of cool.
Speaker 3: I think it's novel. I don't think anyone else has
Speaker 3: done it like them, And I.
Speaker 2: Thought that was cool. No, it's just decent. It's cool.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So shout out to grow Diaries and check them out.
Speaker 2: Decent, decent, decent side. Like I was like, oh that
Speaker 2: ready to knock. I'm like, you know what, it's just
Speaker 2: probably gonna be on nubes and like a like a
Speaker 2: roller up blah blah blah. It's not bad. It's not bad.
Speaker 2: I'm an idiot. It's not bad at all. No.
Speaker 3: To me, it's like an improved version of like a
Speaker 3: forum growth thread. Yeah, you know, like you know, like
Speaker 3: everyone you know, grow diaries are forums obviously very popular.
Speaker 3: But again the problem is that, like it's very hard
Speaker 3: for you to come through the data in any kind
Speaker 3: of structured way.
Speaker 2: I'm bro. But all the riot seed stuff in here
Speaker 2: is Club Riot Seeds whatever.
Speaker 3: That is Club Riots.
Speaker 2: So there's some seed company called Club Riot Seeds that
Speaker 2: popped up within the last like year or two, and
Speaker 2: I saw it and I was like, I was like,
Speaker 2: all right, I can't even get out of that. That's
Speaker 2: that's hilarious, bro, that's hilarious that they didn't even think
Speaker 2: to look up like their name might conflict with another
Speaker 2: breeder like that and there and like all these pictures.
Speaker 3: I think I found one from you strawberry cream.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's mine, that's not theirs. But look at
Speaker 2: their stuff, bro, it's like all auto flower.
Speaker 3: I'll link it in our chat. You can have a look.
Speaker 3: This might be the like one grow that's actually like
Speaker 3: one of your actual products.
Speaker 2: That's funny that I did Cherry gmoz too. I think
Speaker 2: it's up there, but yeah, that's it.
Speaker 3: Okay, So maybe you have a couple of people growing
Speaker 3: you stuff. Yeah, it may be one of those and
Speaker 3: maybe one of those websites that's like we don't know,
Speaker 3: maybe like more European growers or I don't know, you know.
Speaker 2: It does club right, see shout out club right.
Speaker 3: Shut out club rights.
Speaker 2: I can't even hate on him, like they're probably they're
Speaker 2: probably for another country and don't have a clue who
Speaker 2: I am, and I don't expect I don't care.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, let's not assume that they they knew.
Speaker 2: There's any malice, No not at all. I doubt it.
Speaker 2: Doubt it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, any you know anything else meant while you were
Speaker 3: on there? Anything else?
Speaker 2: No, it just looks kind of decent though. Yeah. You
Speaker 2: know there's an American Auto Flower cup coming up apparently
Speaker 2: here in LA which is crazy. I never heard of that, Talis. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you go, yes, I c s I and his auto flower.
Speaker 2: He's going to jump into it. Wait, you'll see, he's
Speaker 2: probably gonna be there. What we'll see, We'll see we
Speaker 2: got projects.
Speaker 3: That's an interesting leak that not expect Oh wait, what
Speaker 3: was the last I think I had something else? Okay, Yeah,
Speaker 3: what was gonna say is that if I were going
Speaker 3: to set up like a like a grow database, it'll
Speaker 3: be like this, It'll be I would definitely take a
Speaker 3: cue from that, you know, Yeah, because I can already
Speaker 3: as a as a as a developer, like I can
Speaker 3: already see the way they've structured the data. You could
Speaker 3: actually do lots of multiple stuff with how they've structured
Speaker 3: the data.
Speaker 2: But anyway, Yeah, Oh, shout out to soul Ray for
Speaker 2: being like one of the only dudes to grow my
Speaker 2: stuff on there like decent. Yeah, so shout out to
Speaker 2: someone for Repinus not it's not closed. Yeah, and whoever
Speaker 2: else the other person, I can't see fire in fire out,
Speaker 2: Yes to them too.
Speaker 3: If nothing else, we can move on to the codex.
Speaker 3: Finally do it our codex. So, Matt, I don't know.
Speaker 3: Do you remember how it got started?
Speaker 2: Vaguely? Vaguely?
Speaker 3: You tell me what you remember.
Speaker 2: I remember you asked me if there is anything I
Speaker 2: had ever like tried to want to build or something.
Speaker 2: Is that correct?
Speaker 3: Okay, I'll give more context because I remember some other
Speaker 3: weird things about this.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think it was like right after Christmas, like everyone
Speaker 3: was in that like weird like post Christmas PREMI years like, hey,
Speaker 3: that's familiar at a loose end a bit, maybe people
Speaker 3: just chilling. I think you were talking to Quasia about
Speaker 3: a database or like having thought about Yeah, that's right,
Speaker 3: And I think so it started with you two, and
Speaker 3: then I think I just was like, I think Quasi
Speaker 3: had some like pretty sophisticated ideas. I was like, well,
Speaker 3: if we wanted to do like a a simpler version
Speaker 3: of this, I could see how we could do it,
Speaker 3: and I could you know, I couldn't prototype something pretty quickly. Yeah,
Speaker 3: And it was pretty wild, just like you were just like, yeah,
Speaker 3: do it. Yeah, yeah, I mean like time, Ye're good?
Speaker 3: Did you even we didn't even know each other, I
Speaker 3: don't think.
Speaker 2: No, not really. No, we didn't have a lot of
Speaker 2: interaction right before that.
Speaker 3: No. And I wonder if you actually thought anything would
Speaker 3: come of it at the time.
Speaker 2: I didn't. When when someone had asked me that, like
Speaker 2: if I had any if I could have anything built,
Speaker 2: what would it be? And I was like, well, the
Speaker 2: one thing we all need is like a reliable genetic database,
Speaker 2: and you know, and I talked about the philosophy behind it,
Speaker 2: and I I was kind of like offhand statement. It
Speaker 2: was late at night, like I didn't really think much
Speaker 2: of it. And then like within two days there was
Speaker 2: serious development done to the point where I was like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, like I've got to start entering stuff
Speaker 2: because these guys have done so much work. Now I
Speaker 2: can't like I got to do something like I'm gonna
Speaker 2: have to act. This is for real and this is
Speaker 2: serious and like coming together, this is amazing, Like this
Speaker 2: is some serious stuff and can make and and and
Speaker 2: I think help help at least be one resource for
Speaker 2: people to go to that they can Hopefully people will
Speaker 2: feel as reliable enough, you know, for their data.
Speaker 3: I can tell a bit more of this from my
Speaker 3: side as well. So do I know that in the
Speaker 3: US Christmas break isn't that long for people who are working, right,
Speaker 3: It's like only like a couple of weeks. It's not
Speaker 3: like the biggest holiday on the planet for you guys,
Speaker 3: but for us it's it's Christmas happens during summer and
Speaker 3: like this, you can imagine that, and then the country
Speaker 3: kind of almost shuts down for like two months. It
Speaker 3: feels like, from like December to like fib it feels
Speaker 3: like the country goes really quiet because people just go
Speaker 3: out to it, Like people go to the beaches and
Speaker 3: stuff and chill out.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, it's kind of cool.
Speaker 3: So for me, it's always this kind of weird. It's
Speaker 3: a nice time, but it's kind of like a bit restless.
Speaker 3: It's weirdly quiet. And I think when the idea came about,
Speaker 3: so obviously context I'm a web developer, and when the
Speaker 3: idea came about, like I was like, I've actually done
Speaker 3: some stuff with similar kinds of data and representing similar
Speaker 3: kinds of data, like relationships and you know, kind of
Speaker 3: like network maps of relationships and I was like, you know,
Speaker 3: I think I could actually like do this pretty quick,
Speaker 3: or at least have a prototype pretty quick. Yeah, And
Speaker 3: so I think I just had the I got on
Speaker 3: the buzz was I had a lot of energy, and
Speaker 3: I was I had like a manic couple of weeks,
Speaker 3: maybe like two to three weeks of just smashing it.
Speaker 2: It was insane, bro like, and it.
Speaker 3: They was like I was smashing it.
Speaker 2: It was like you'd be like, you know, is there
Speaker 2: anything else like you can think of? And then there'd
Speaker 2: be something I'd pop up and I'd be like I
Speaker 2: because I some context, I was aware developer in my
Speaker 2: past life. Here, I know how much a lot of
Speaker 2: this stuff costs, and I know how much like knowledge
Speaker 2: it takes to do this stuff. And the asks that
Speaker 2: I was asking weren't necessarily things that I could achieve easy,
Speaker 2: but I know how much it would cost to have
Speaker 2: them implemented. So like when he was asking like these things,
Speaker 2: I was like, I don't even feel comfortable saying, you know,
Speaker 2: but and eventually you get it out of me, and
Speaker 2: then it would be done and like, you know, a
Speaker 2: few hours, it seems and mind blowing. It was amazing.
Speaker 2: It was because It was like really watching something come
Speaker 2: to life. It wasn't a slow progression. It was like
Speaker 2: boom and it's here, and it's just like this is
Speaker 2: everything I ever wanted. But now it's like, oh, it's
Speaker 2: so serious.
Speaker 3: It was a fun period for me. It was like
Speaker 3: I was on holiday and I got to talk to Matt,
Speaker 3: who I'd never interacted with, and I was like, this
Speaker 3: is nuts that we're doing this. But yeah, it was
Speaker 3: a blast.
Speaker 2: It was. I also will say it was a lot
Speaker 2: of trust in you for me because you really didn't
Speaker 2: know me, and I could have been the scumbag that
Speaker 2: everyone said and just been like yeah, bro, you know,
Speaker 2: like thanks, nice to know you, you know, but like I
Speaker 2: really appreciated all that trust you because I knew how
Speaker 2: much time and not just time, but like that's a
Speaker 2: labor of love doing something like that, and you're really
Speaker 2: passionate about cannabis, as it shows, so like this is
Speaker 2: an actual labor of love, like it is for me.
Speaker 2: So at the same time, it wasn't just like building
Speaker 2: it for me. It became our baby. Bro. We had
Speaker 2: a baby there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, absolutely, And maybe at this point we can
Speaker 3: state some of their aims because so I think, like
Speaker 3: what we said before, information like this is very sensitive.
Speaker 3: It carries a lot of weight, and one thing I
Speaker 3: I think interp of strategy. One thing I really didn't
Speaker 3: want to do was ovis state or overrepresent anything. So
Speaker 3: I knew off the bat we weren't going to be
Speaker 3: doing like effects, we weren't going to be doing smells
Speaker 3: and flavors. I was just like, let's stick to our
Speaker 3: strengths here. Matt has a lot of knowledge from his time,
Speaker 3: his interactions with people, his actual work, and that's the
Speaker 3: information we want to present. And we don't want to yeah,
Speaker 3: over or understate that. You know, we know it's not
Speaker 3: like genetic or genomic mapping, and we're never going to
Speaker 3: do that conceivably. So the next best thing was like
Speaker 3: presenting I don't know, Matt, how would you frame this? Like,
Speaker 3: how would you frame the information that we have on there?
Speaker 3: From your point of view?
Speaker 2: The information we have on there by the way I'd
Speaker 2: frame it is by talking about all the things that
Speaker 2: I saw wrong with everything else, and like the little
Speaker 2: steps in my brain I took to like try to
Speaker 2: beat all that, Like I like the crowdsourcing. First thing
Speaker 2: that I knew that had to happen was no more crowdsourcing.
Speaker 2: But I also knew that's probably going to piss a
Speaker 2: lot of people off and sound very elitist, like that's
Speaker 2: the first thing that's going to happen is people that
Speaker 2: are going to feel excluded because their input wasn't taken
Speaker 2: into account, or they're going to think that that their
Speaker 2: input wasn't taken into account. And realistically, what my idea
Speaker 2: was from the beginning was to and I'm sure there's
Speaker 2: a lot of like perceived ideas about what's going to
Speaker 2: happen with it, and like the intention behind it and agendas,
Speaker 2: but realistically, like my idea for it was to have
Speaker 2: essentially a place where people go look at the most
Speaker 2: important strains in cannabis. The baselines that we talk about
Speaker 2: on here land races get realistic, like not just opposed
Speaker 2: data from people that may or may not be cannabis
Speaker 2: people over there that are trying to sell seeds and
Speaker 2: blah blah blah. People who are over there that are
Speaker 2: researchers that are doing this stuff, that are they have
Speaker 2: good input are going to be putting in like to
Speaker 2: the land race part that's not my expertise, So like,
Speaker 2: but with with my one thing I do know is
Speaker 2: people because I've been in the scene so long, so
Speaker 2: it's not necessarily just about my knowledge of strains. It's
Speaker 2: about my knowledge of people who have the knowledge of
Speaker 2: those strains most importantly, which is what the show is
Speaker 2: in a sense, you know, like you bringing those people
Speaker 2: together to talk, and now this is aggregating that data.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so you could almost see it like Matt
Speaker 3: is facilitating curating this database. And you know, obviously a
Speaker 3: major difference between that and some of the other databases
Speaker 3: we mentioned is that these people weren't part of the
Speaker 3: industry conceivably, and we're not there or present when a
Speaker 3: lot of this was going on. And Matt, Matt is
Speaker 3: one of those people. So even though, of course, you know,
Speaker 3: you have the obvious trade off of it being Matt
Speaker 3: and perhaps like a smaller group of people, one of
Speaker 3: the benefits you get. So okay, we'll say we'll say
Speaker 3: straight up there, like we have no no ambitions or
Speaker 3: delusions about the perfect you know, like how perfect the
Speaker 3: information is. It's obviously going to be Matt's best account
Speaker 3: based on what he knows. But what you do get
Speaker 3: is accountability, transparency, and like responsibility. So you know, this
Speaker 3: is a work in progress. Matt's not even probably near done,
Speaker 3: but we're going to launch it, and Matt will conceivably
Speaker 3: be working on it. Eventually, we might get more people
Speaker 3: to come and help. So again, the idea is that
Speaker 3: keeping it to a smaller group of people that we
Speaker 3: trust will at least introduce a more reliable process of
Speaker 3: you know, and more reliable feedback loops. So even though
Speaker 3: the information may not be perfect at any one time,
Speaker 3: the hope is that we can just keep improving it
Speaker 3: and that the same people are going to be responsible
Speaker 3: for it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and again, a lot of it's going to be
Speaker 2: different than what people perceive. I'm not adding my own
Speaker 2: strains on there because I don't think my own strains
Speaker 2: are like the are part of the history of cannabis.
Speaker 2: I don't think I've done anything that's revolutionary per se.
Speaker 2: So my strains are not going to be on this site.
Speaker 2: Presenting them is like like this, these are important, kind
Speaker 2: of sneak them in the back door. That's not what
Speaker 2: it's for. It's not like built with an agenda like that.
Speaker 2: I mean, realistically, what I wanted was something for me
Speaker 2: to go and resource and I don't need to resource
Speaker 2: and full on my strains.
Speaker 3: I think that's a really good point. By the way,
Speaker 3: I think we were building what we wanted to consume ourselves.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, looking Adam Bird, Okay, go ahead.
Speaker 3: Sorry, that was so well timed. We we just wanted
Speaker 3: to ultimately, we wanted to build something that we ourselves
Speaker 3: would be interested in going and looking at. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 3: we wanted to build a thing that we dreamed of.
Speaker 2: And and I wanted something I could share with my
Speaker 2: breeder friends, like as a resource. And that was mainly it.
Speaker 3: Like, oh so sorry, Matt. One more thing that I
Speaker 3: wanted to just make sure was really clear to people
Speaker 3: is that we're not trying to have every single cut
Speaker 3: of hype or noteworthiness on there. It's really about, like
Speaker 3: what Matt was saying, you can consider it like it's
Speaker 3: a hall of fame of sorts or like legacy strains
Speaker 3: or whatever. It's more about that. It's more about impact
Speaker 3: and history than it is about more plants.
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly. And and some of the ones with a
Speaker 2: lot of legend around them that we've tried to crack
Speaker 2: over the years, like for example, Dog, which you know,
Speaker 2: is a very controversial strain, and it was one of
Speaker 2: the ones that took me some time and just thinking
Speaker 2: about it, I figured out a few ways on how
Speaker 2: to approach it, because it's not one that I could
Speaker 2: just approach from this is what we've seen in the
Speaker 2: plants from my perspective and other a few other breeders' perspectives,
Speaker 2: and this is what they are. I didn't feel comfortable
Speaker 2: just doing that. That's one where I feel like it
Speaker 2: needs to have all of the history with it. The
Speaker 2: forum posts from Kem Dogg himself, from Peabud, from JJ
Speaker 2: New York, from everyone that's been involved, all the way
Speaker 2: up the line, every last one of their quotes, so
Speaker 2: everyone can make you know, conclusions for themselves based on
Speaker 2: what these guys themselves said. It helps put a lot
Speaker 2: into perspective when you have all that stuff, and it
Speaker 2: helps it also be a more valuable historical resource because
Speaker 2: it's not just me telling you what I think based
Speaker 2: on my experience, because that can always be based on
Speaker 2: faith or agenda. This is me presenting all of not
Speaker 2: just my own conclusions, but here is all the data
Speaker 2: that goes with it. Here's their conclusions, here's the story
Speaker 2: that started with it, and here's where I ended up.
Speaker 2: So you can totally disregard anything that I have to say.
Speaker 2: You can absolutely believe that everything you're reading in the
Speaker 2: forum post and that's fine because they'll be up there
Speaker 2: for you to read. And that's more of where I
Speaker 2: want to take it. Yeah, I mean, Keim Doug was
Speaker 2: a perfect scenario strain for something like that, where it
Speaker 2: was just like, what is presenting what I think enough?
Speaker 2: Or do I need to present stuff that I may
Speaker 2: not necessarily even agree with all the time, but I
Speaker 2: think it's important maybe to to present that too as
Speaker 2: as complete as possible and not cherry pick too.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, And I think the important thing to point
Speaker 3: out here is that, like me, you know, as someone
Speaker 3: who works with data a lot in my other life,
Speaker 3: information and gathering knowledge, it's a process. Yeah, it's first
Speaker 3: and foremost a process. So if this website can embody
Speaker 3: that process, that's that's really all, you know, Like I
Speaker 3: mean not sorry, not that's not all, but like that's
Speaker 3: that's something that like can be relied upon regardless of
Speaker 3: the state of information. Yeah, because you know, if you
Speaker 3: can trust the process, you know at least that the
Speaker 3: information will be getting validated and proved that there's someone
Speaker 3: who's actually accountable for it. Like you can you know
Speaker 3: that Matt's name for better or worse is on those entries. Yeah,
Speaker 3: And because another thing that's worth saying as well, even
Speaker 3: though that's Matt's name, Matt is connected with a whole
Speaker 3: bunch of people who he talks to a lot about
Speaker 3: these things. So implicitly those people are there. Their names
Speaker 3: are not necessarily there, but you know, Matt is definitely
Speaker 3: talking to CSI about this stuff.
Speaker 2: For example, Yeah, there's one of many people that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I'm talking to the people that I highly respect,
Speaker 2: Like it's not just my opinion on a lot of
Speaker 2: this stuff, it's the people who I respect and you know,
Speaker 2: like taking their work and putting it on there, and
Speaker 2: like you know, like I'm I'm reaching out. Some of
Speaker 2: them aren't on there because I'm waiting for, you know,
Speaker 2: CSI to giving back some freaking input, because I don't
Speaker 2: want to put my my data up there because my frankly,
Speaker 2: I like I on certain strains, maybe I don't even
Speaker 2: trust my own experience with him, because maybe I got
Speaker 2: a specific clone from a dispensary or or even maybe
Speaker 2: I got it from a source that's good, but maybe
Speaker 2: it's not as good as his source, and maybe he
Speaker 2: had a different experience, you know, and I'd rather rather
Speaker 2: that be up there, because I trust his input more
Speaker 2: than mine based on just obvious experience, you know, very
Speaker 2: obvious experience in that case.
Speaker 3: And you know, Matt, like ultimately you also have the
Speaker 3: freedom to how would I put it, You also have
Speaker 3: the freedom to like express where they're conflicting perspectives, right,
Speaker 3: like I think you probably have in some of those
Speaker 3: entries written life. This is what I think, but some
Speaker 3: other people think this, and maybe it's a good time
Speaker 3: for me to actually briefly outline like what you can
Speaker 3: see on the entries.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do that.
Speaker 3: So yeah, so, Matt, I left a link to the
Speaker 3: km dog one in the chat if you want to
Speaker 3: go and quickly look at it while I'm saying this.
Speaker 3: But so, the first thing you see, you can see
Speaker 3: the parents, at least what we know of the parents.
Speaker 3: You can see the aliases are either the various names
Speaker 3: this cut or line has had. Yeah, you can see
Speaker 3: the children and a really important thing that we added.
Speaker 3: And we'll come back to this anecdote later. Yeah, a
Speaker 3: bit of us covering. We added what we call information certainty,
Speaker 3: and this is for Matt to be like, hey, this
Speaker 3: is wild speculation, Like, don't you know take this with
Speaker 3: a huge grain, you know, a fistful of salt, or
Speaker 3: on the other end of it. No, this is like
Speaker 3: pretty damn certain, Like I'm very confident in this, And
Speaker 3: so there's a little rating just to kind of indicate like, yeah,
Speaker 3: how certain mat is. Then there's filial generation. There is
Speaker 3: whether this is referring to a line or cut, which
Speaker 3: I think is very important because often that's like very blurry. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, is this a line or is this an
Speaker 3: individual plant? Yeah, Matt. We've also listed like some of
Speaker 3: the people we know have either our holding or have
Speaker 3: historically have been known to have held these plants. Yeah,
Speaker 3: we have a year of origin, region of origin, broad description,
Speaker 3: and then we have like I was saying before, my
Speaker 3: you know, early version of a filos galaxy type thing. Yes,
Speaker 3: I do want to say that, like, this is what
Speaker 3: I'm most proud of and most embarrassed of, because you'll
Speaker 3: notice that you can kind of zoom in on the
Speaker 3: immediate family, which works pretty well once you go to
Speaker 3: the extended family. I e. Like the whole tree. It
Speaker 3: gets pretty crazy. So I'm gonna be that's gonna be
Speaker 3: a work in progress kind of thing.
Speaker 2: Sure, And I will say this is like one of
Speaker 2: those things that it's been very hard for me as
Speaker 2: far as getting other people to be actually do the
Speaker 2: actual data entry is because when looks, you're at a
Speaker 2: strain map and how you do it the logic behind it.
Speaker 2: Like if I just put BLD of unknown origin for example,
Speaker 2: as a parent, and then linked all these to the parent,
Speaker 2: then we would have a bunch of unrelated things linked
Speaker 2: to sisters and brothers, and that's really easy to do.
Speaker 2: So then I realized everything needs its own variable. But
Speaker 2: I have to be able to remember in my head
Speaker 2: those variables, so I don't reuse those variables. So yeah,
Speaker 2: it's crazy.
Speaker 3: Okay, So just to be clear, Matt's talking about a
Speaker 3: situation where like, yeah, some some some famous plant we know,
Speaker 3: we can guess that the parent is like yeah, some
Speaker 3: like NLD BLD, and in the database that becomes its
Speaker 3: own entry that BLD or NLD whatever it is generic thing.
Speaker 3: And what Matt's saying is that he has to be
Speaker 3: careful not to actually assume that that represents the same
Speaker 3: individual plant. Yes, and he has to distinguish them. So unknown,
Speaker 3: I'm just I'm just making it up up off the
Speaker 3: top of my head. But you know, unknown BLD one
Speaker 3: three five, Unknown BLD twenty seven. You know, Vega just
Speaker 3: be kept separate. Yeah, you can't be vague even when
Speaker 3: they're placeholders. Even when their placeholders, we need to be
Speaker 3: really clear that they are separate placeholders.
Speaker 2: And trying to teach people my syntax of like how
Speaker 2: I choose which variable in the name, And it's been
Speaker 2: very hard, very hard. No one's picked it up yet,
Speaker 2: so and I think it's actually been like kind of
Speaker 2: some people are like, oh, I'm not even to try,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, like because it is it's complicated.
Speaker 2: The logic of it is complicated, and you can't ever
Speaker 2: screw it up or the whole thing breaks in my opinion.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so you know, on on that note, you know,
Speaker 3: I should say we want as much feedback as we
Speaker 3: can get from people. You know, one thing that I
Speaker 3: haven't built yet that I really do want to build,
Speaker 3: that Matt and I discussed last week. There's actually a
Speaker 3: little like comments feature at the bottom so people can
Speaker 3: actually say what they think on the page. In the
Speaker 3: current absence of that, please obviously comment here hit me
Speaker 3: or Matt up on ig if you have anything to
Speaker 3: say about any of the entries.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 3: Last couple of things that we have on the Plant
Speaker 3: pages at the moment is a references section. So the
Speaker 3: idea here is to link any other kind of content,
Speaker 3: whether it's like a forum thread, breed, a syndicate episode,
Speaker 3: anything anything we want to like try to flesh those
Speaker 3: references out. Again, work in progress. We're not quite there yet,
Speaker 3: but slowly I think every page will become like a
Speaker 3: nice little hub of different kinds of information.
Speaker 2: And I think so like, there's great pictures of Kim
Speaker 2: one through four which are very hard to find, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. Yes, so it's a quick reference
Speaker 2: on stuff like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, photos, Sorry, there are lots of photos. Well, I
Speaker 3: mean where we have them there? Photos. Was there anything
Speaker 3: else we wanted to say about what we do have there?
Speaker 3: Met because otherwise I wanted to move on to like
Speaker 3: things that I could see coming as well.
Speaker 2: No, I think it's very very much what we just said.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think we're good.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, Well we haven't even said where it is.
Speaker 3: I mean, we'll put a link in the description, but
Speaker 3: I'll say the website is is codex dot the Breeders
Speaker 3: Syndicate dot com. Correct, so codex dot the Breedersyndicate dot com.
Speaker 3: It's not been properly indexed on Google yet, but I
Speaker 3: imagine once we start sharing the links out and people
Speaker 3: more people share them, yeah, yeah, onto Google soon.
Speaker 2: I've been I've been a little hesitant to put it
Speaker 2: out because for me, like I wanted to be as
Speaker 2: complete as possible. But realistically, with everything going on, like
Speaker 2: the ability to constantly add to it's been taken away
Speaker 2: from time to time, and it's it's pretty good, and
Speaker 2: we need to start somewhere, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: So I think, uh, I think I'm good with that now.
Speaker 3: So really, what Matt's saying, please be patient, Please be
Speaker 3: gentle if you can, Mozilla with your feedback. This is
Speaker 3: still very early. And like Matt saying, and like I said,
Speaker 3: you know, keep implying, you know, keep saying, it's a process. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and for any process like this, the more feedback we
Speaker 3: can get, the better it can be. And yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: so hopefully we'll have more feedback mechanisms available on the
Speaker 3: app itself soon, but otherwise just reach out to us
Speaker 3: in whatever way you want comment on this video, et cetera. Yeah, man,
Speaker 3: I'm really on a ramble this one. I guess I've
Speaker 3: got a lot to say about it.
Speaker 2: That's good. It's good.
Speaker 3: I'll say one more thing, and it's sort of gestures
Speaker 3: towards future stuff. I kind of had a possible idea that, like,
Speaker 3: other people could also use this for adding their own entries,
Speaker 3: i e. If you're a breeder or you know, seed
Speaker 3: maker or whatever hobbyist and you want to like map
Speaker 3: you know, some some family of relationships. I thought about
Speaker 3: opening it up. The problem is that that in itself
Speaker 3: introduced as a whole bunch of new possible problems like
Speaker 3: should those entries go into the main like Hall of
Speaker 3: Fame section? How do we keep people's data like separate?
Speaker 3: Should it be private? So I haven't really moved on
Speaker 3: it yet. I think we can guess that it would
Speaker 3: be popular and that it it would get some you know, uptake, But.
Speaker 2: I would think, yeah, personally, I think just thinking about it,
Speaker 2: like it would be cool if people could have it
Speaker 2: as a separate and public thing that they could share
Speaker 2: if they wanted to only because I was thinking back
Speaker 2: to a seed finder, like if they would have had
Speaker 2: something like that, like that would have been really cool,
Speaker 2: you know, it would have served the purpose, but you
Speaker 2: know it didn't, So you know, I think that's not
Speaker 2: a bad idea.
Speaker 3: I can kind of see like two different downstream like
Speaker 3: implementation implementations of this. One is like we extend what
Speaker 3: we have, which I have tried a little bit, Like
Speaker 3: we have had people come on already, and I've tried
Speaker 3: to be like, okay, maybe we can just let them
Speaker 3: add stuff to their page, but it doesn't go into
Speaker 3: the Hall of Fame, but that has other complications. The
Speaker 3: other possibility is I basically make an alternative version of
Speaker 3: this that's just for the community, where I rip obviously
Speaker 3: most of the code, but I change it slightly.
Speaker 2: But you know, it's interesting.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. The difficulty here, I think for me, is
Speaker 3: that the problem with software is that once you have
Speaker 3: it up and you're saying that other people can join
Speaker 3: and stuff, maintenance costs and risk can kind of like
Speaker 3: really blow out. Oh yeah, yeah, you know, like it's
Speaker 3: hard to know whether or not we have the capacity
Speaker 3: to you know, keep building and maintaining those things.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 3: We'll see. I would say that, like what we've started
Speaker 3: with is already pretty ambitious, so you'll see how this
Speaker 3: all unfolds and how the kind of interesting you might get.
Speaker 3: What else is there to say about it? I don't
Speaker 3: know if there's much else, you know, what do you think?
Speaker 2: Just just that, you know, like we do want to
Speaker 2: be inclusive with it eventually, but you know, like to
Speaker 2: start out, it has to be a certain way to
Speaker 2: establish the baselines, and a lot of this is just
Speaker 2: simply me doing data entry from old catalogs that I
Speaker 2: have too. Some of it is stuff like me getting
Speaker 2: you know, pictures of Bubba Cush collecting all the info
Speaker 2: on all the data from everybody. I know that's reliable
Speaker 2: when it comes to bubble Cush enter all that in,
Speaker 2: you know, each one, you know, as it relates to
Speaker 2: like Blueberry go enter everything in every step of the
Speaker 2: way up, so it's not incomplete, so it never runs
Speaker 2: into a wall, you know what I mean. So there's
Speaker 2: a lot of little things like that that I wanted
Speaker 2: to do to get it right, and I've done a
Speaker 2: lot of that. So yeah, there's not it's not one
Speaker 2: big agenda. It's just going to be a historical resource.
Speaker 2: And you know, when we first talked about it, there's
Speaker 2: a lot of backlash from people. Some of it was
Speaker 2: some of it was legitimate, and some of it was
Speaker 2: just like what it didn't make any sense to me.
Speaker 2: But I think there's a lot of perception on how
Speaker 2: people think it's going to be handled and how people
Speaker 2: think it might turn out. And realistically, I think a
Speaker 2: lot of people had a lot of perceptions about how
Speaker 2: breeder syndic it was going to turn out, what the
Speaker 2: agenda was, and we're totally wrong. So I'm interested to
Speaker 2: see how this unfolds.
Speaker 3: I'll just say this to add a bit of add
Speaker 3: a bit of drama, add a bit of spice, and
Speaker 3: I won't obviously go into the details. But I early on,
Speaker 3: while I was developing it, you know, I had a
Speaker 3: little at the time of fairly small Instagram following, and
Speaker 3: I decided to take a screenshot of one of the
Speaker 3: pages and just put it up. And it wasn't because
Speaker 3: necessarily of the information on the page. I just wanted
Speaker 3: to show what the website was looking like at that point. Proud, Yeah,
Speaker 3: I was proud of it. Yeah, But unfortunately some people
Speaker 3: got really offended by it, and it caused a bit
Speaker 3: of a yeah a scene, and I was just like,
Speaker 3: oh my god, it was my first taste I think
Speaker 3: of like the kinds of what I considered to be
Speaker 3: quite petty drama. Yeah. Yeah, they can arise in this world,
Speaker 3: and I expect that we will have We'll probably see
Speaker 3: more of that, right without doubt.
Speaker 2: That was just one picture, oh one of them. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, like the whole size.
Speaker 3: That is also when we did add the information certainty
Speaker 3: rating to be like you know, and actually that's a
Speaker 3: reminder you probably to go through and add those to
Speaker 3: various entries.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do that. Yeah, we'll get that done.
Speaker 3: Get that that ass covering it. Yeah yeah, So I
Speaker 3: just wanted to relay that little anecdote just to it's
Speaker 3: just so people have an idea of like some of
Speaker 3: the dramas that have occurred and probably will will occur
Speaker 3: once now that we're launching it.
Speaker 2: Oh sure, yeah, but yeah, I invite it, like you know,
Speaker 2: like I don't. I don't undertandly invite drama that's suck, say,
Speaker 2: nobody wants to deal with that, even my dumb ass
Speaker 2: doesn't that deals with it. All day doesn't want to
Speaker 2: deal with it. But I do invite criticism, and I
Speaker 2: do invite people that have better knowledge than me to
Speaker 2: give me their input. And that isn't to say that
Speaker 2: like just because you think your knowledge is better, that
Speaker 2: I'm going to agree, But it does also doesn't mean
Speaker 2: that I'm going to disagree. So you'd be surprised. Even
Speaker 2: sometimes I'm surprised. So feel free to reach out comment below,
Speaker 2: you know, hit me up on Instagram or a discord.
Speaker 3: Yeah, just to be clear, I'm not trying to incite drama.
Speaker 3: I'm saying that we would hope to see not as
Speaker 3: much drama, but I'm expecting some.
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, Yeah, I'm not I'm not scared of it,
Speaker 2: that's for sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, Yeah, I don't have anything else to say
Speaker 3: about it for now, Matt, and I think I'm just
Speaker 3: excited for this to actually be visible and people and
Speaker 3: so this is really just the first step, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, in a way, and it'll help like a fire
Speaker 2: a rounder me to keep keep raging on it. So
Speaker 2: I'm kind of stoked see where it goes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Matt's gonna like have to add some filters to
Speaker 3: his inbox soon.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, all right, yeah, I know.
Speaker 2: I think that's it. Do anything else you want to add?
Speaker 3: No, again, we'll put the link in the description, but
Speaker 3: it's codex dot the Bretasyndica dot com. Like I said,
Speaker 3: give us feedback on any of the social media platforms, YouTube, whatever,
Speaker 3: and again shut out to I didn't right.
Speaker 2: Here, right here, I'm going to put the link creditor
Speaker 2: here because I know how to do that.
Speaker 3: Now, there you go, there you go, and yeah, sorry.
Speaker 3: One thing in talking about the process I didn't get
Speaker 3: to say is that thank you so much to Anodyne
Speaker 3: and Quasia. Yes, as a developer, I can, I'm not
Speaker 3: so good at like fine details, especially when it comes
Speaker 3: to do with the s. I'm just like I want
Speaker 3: the data stuff to be good, you know, all the
Speaker 3: functionality to be good. So those two really really helped
Speaker 3: make it look a lot better. Follish it up. Yeah,
Speaker 3: there were an immense kind of help to me when
Speaker 3: I was like driving on it. Apologize for I didn't
Speaker 3: give you guys a fucking chance to really get much
Speaker 3: else in there because I was just going so fast.
Speaker 3: But yeah, thank you so much for your support and
Speaker 3: like your work.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you guys worked really well together. It is insane
Speaker 2: to watch, like, how will you guys all like streamline together?
Speaker 2: Like boom boom boom. Usually people are arguing or bickering
Speaker 2: for top spot. But everybody was just like, this is
Speaker 2: what I'm doing, this is what I'm doing. Bam, let's
Speaker 2: do it. It was rad.
Speaker 3: It was really cool. Yeah, I think what I got
Speaker 3: to see there was like three fairly senior professionals like yeah,
Speaker 3: looking together and there was rad Like I did not
Speaker 3: expect to get other people to help, so yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: it was.
Speaker 2: So yeah, shout out to them, Thank you to them.
Speaker 2: I guess that's uh. You anything else you want to
Speaker 2: get in?
Speaker 3: Nah, that that's it. I'm just excited to see what
Speaker 3: happens once this episode goes live.
Speaker 2: Yeah, me too, very excited to see it, very exciting
Speaker 2: to see where it goes. So yeah, any anything else?
Speaker 2: Leave the comment below.
Speaker 3: With that said, plugs with that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, go check out breedersy Patreon. It's patreon dot com
Speaker 2: forward slash breeder Syndicate. I'll put that link right here
Speaker 2: right now, and yeah links in the description too. Go
Speaker 2: check got right Seeds dot com for all the right
Speaker 2: seed spray and all of your right seeds needs. There's
Speaker 2: a lot of other breeders there, so go check it
Speaker 2: out and I think that's it. Patreon discord that's where
Speaker 2: we hang out. It's super fun and that links to
Speaker 2: description as well.
Speaker 3: All right, thank you everybody.
Speaker 2: All right, that's a wrap. Cheers. You want to sit
Speaker 2: at the table with the syndicate. Check out our Patreon
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Speaker 2: is officially live. We have all sorts of shirts, hoodies
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Speaker 2: please check it out syndicate here dot com. We also
Speaker 2: have an underground syndicate discord where we get together and
Speaker 2: solve old strain history together daily. It's an amazing community
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