Speaker 1: The disclaimer to the fair season Karen's out there, Oh
dare you? All guests on the show do not reflect
the opinions of the host. The purpose of the show
is to have interesting conversations, stretch our minds and grow
not what we want. If you are looking for an
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Speaker 2: Can you talk about extreme?
Speaker 3: What is happening and what is up? Hold out your
glass because we're about to feel it.
Speaker 2: Up torches high, you know, look at it from a
different perspective, different perspective, different perspective.
Speaker 3: Hey, guys, what is happening and what is up? Hold
out your glass because we are about to feel it.
Welcome to the Prometheus Lands Podcast. The place for the
conversations are always in the lightning. I'm your host, Doc Brown.
Speaker 2: Here.
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And I want you to know I appreciate it. Hey, guys,
with all the junk out of the way, let's get
to the fun stuff. That's what we're here for. And
I think I got a good guest lined up for
you guys this week, and I think we're gonna have
some really good conversations that you will enjoy. This is
a man that has an Instagram page and he shares
knowledge nuggets every single day. I've been listening to his
stuff and watching it for a while now and I've
just reached out. It was like, hey, man, would you
like to have a conversation about some of this stuff?
And he was more than willing to come on the show.
So I'd like to welcome the show for the first time,
hopefully first time with many Mario, Mario, think you're coming
on hanging out with us?
Speaker 2: Brother, Yeah, of course, thank you for the invite.
Speaker 3: For those that's not familiar, just kind of give us
us an option, you know, a little bit background, tell
us about your page, what kind of stuff you're into.
Just give us a feel.
Speaker 2: Definitely. Yeah, So my project is called Symbolic Studies. If
people are interested in what I have to say, they
can go to Symbolicstudies dot com and from there they
can find my Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, Twitter, all that kind
of stuff. And I've been a lifelong artist and I've
been a graphic designer for a number of years now,
and design and art really led me to symbolism. And
it was over time did I really find that I
had a very strong interest in this topic. But I
would say around two thousand and seven two thousand and
eight is when I started buying symbolic dictionaries and since
then it's been basically what I've collected. I've had many
collections over the years, and now I can only justify
collecting books at this point. And over time I got
a really good lay of the land with symbolism and
sort of figured out the authors that we're worth following,
sort of the perspective I think that is really worth
its weight in gold when it comes to symbolism. And
at some point I figured if I was going to
be a proper symbologist, I would need to know the
signs of the zodiac and really what they represent. And
over time, you know, I got interested in the tarot
and occult history and esoteric history and things like that,
and so it just became this weave that I really
fell in love with, you know, in many ways. And
so starting in twenty twenty, I started putting out these
short videos where I talk about, you know, one aspect
of each sign during the sign itself, and essentially I
haven't stopped doing that, right, and so it's been about
five years now and I've put out dozens of videos
on all of the astrological signs, and now I have
a podcast as well where I talk about, you know,
the sign during the sign itself. I have that co
hosted with my wife as well, who's an herbalist and
brings her herbal knowledge to the table. There's a really
interesting correspondence between the signs, the planets and specific herbs
and things like that, and so she brings a lot
of that knowledge to the table, which is very much appreciated.
And I also put out presentations and things like that
on YouTube. And so I would say my short form
content tends to be around astrology and the signs of
the zodiac, and my long form content is also about that,
but I also bring in another perspective, and it's sort
of my more advanced interpretation of symbolism and what that's
all about. And there's actually sort of a symbolic school
of thought that I really have gravitated towards, and I
think that that's kind of where a lot of gems
are kind of held. Some people refer to it as
the traditionalist school or the Perennialist school, and there's authors
like Reneguanon that I got really into, and over time,
I just have to say one of the things that
I've really latched onto is symbolism related to the northern sky,
so specifically the Pole Star, the North Star, and this
star is really amazing and I'm still taken away by
what I'm continuing to learn about it, and also the
constellations around the North Star being ursa major and minor.
My understanding is that these constellations were of supreme importance
way back in the day and that has kind of
been lost in the sands of time. So that's kind
of a specific interest that people do know me for.
And so a lot of the shows that I've been
invited on, I've done whole you know, Polestar episodes and
things like that for people. So the zodiac is one
main framework. I would say, the pole star and everything
in the northern sky in northern or polar symbolism in
general is another thing. And then aside from that too,
just like the fundamentals of symbolism, you know, I think
that's one of the things that's kind of lost. I
know a lot of people, everyone has a symbolic interpretation
of things. You can't kind of divorce yourself from having
some sort of opinion about that. Your dreams are symbolic.
Everything is symbolic in this world, right, But I've kind
of made it a point for myself to really wrap
my head around fundamental symbolism. So the meaning of really
basic symbols like the dots, right, the circle, the square,
the tree, the mountain, things like that. I really kind
of get off on understanding and having a solid foundation
with that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I like you had said all the astrology,
symbolism and stuff that I've seen on your Instagram. I
wasn't aware that you had a YouTube, so I have
to go check that out. Now my curiosity has been parked.
If I like the short sum no, I'm going to
like the long form content. Yeah, yeah, definitely, And I
was drowned of that because I always thought that stuff
was kind of fascinating, and a lot of people, like
in Christian circles, they kind of confuse astrology versus astronomy,
and you have all kinds of astrological talk. In the Bible.
It talks about the Mazarath and the four living creatures.
Those are the four faces of the Babylonian zodiac, north, southeast,
and west. The wheels within wheels. I think it's referring
to this pole star and the paths of the stars
going around at wheels within wheels. And then I found
Hamlet's Mill, Yes, and that was one of my favorite books,
and it talks about how all these old ancient legends
and stories are talking about the stars. So it's like
they took something they knew because they didn't have TV,
they didn't have internet and cell phones and all these
other distractions, so they were staring at the sky and
they were picking out these constellations and making animals out
of them and making stories with these animals. And so
I found that very fascinating to go through the history
and be exposed to that and be shown how you
know this ancient story is talking about this and that
and the symbolism behind it. All that kind of stuff
just really fascinated me. So it kind of drew me
to your content anyway.
Speaker 2: Excellent, excellent, right on. Yeah, that's a classic book right there,
Hamlet's Mill, and it's speaking to the Wheel of Heaven,
right and so in my opinion, if there's an axle
to the wheel Heaven, it makes sense that it would
be the Polestar, the North Star. And so there's a
lot of deep, deep symbolism that correlates with that, including
the idea that essentially it's the northern sky and the
pole Star that was considered to be the gateway or
stairway to heaven. And I think even in a lot
of free Masonic tracing boards they basically allude to this,
and there's hints about this, you know, in the tarot,
and you know, once I found out about this dynamic
of there being a real location symbolically for the stairway
of Heaven, maybe the sort of exit in the firmament,
if you will, kind of like the top of the
dome or something along those lines, I just started acquiring
as many books as I could that related to some
of these topics and things like that, and there's more
out there than you would realize. It's a deep, deep study.
It's a lifelong study.
Speaker 3: And one that really kind of blew my mind was
when I was reading through how it talked about the maelstrom.
You know this whirlpool and know that that's a symbol.
It's talking about this postar like you talked about this
gate way to heaven kind of, and one of the
old Norse myths, it was talking about this king that
had this magical meal and that he bought two giantesses
to turn the wheels of the grinding stones, and that
they would grind out whatever they sang about, and he
had them sing about gold and prosperity and all these
things to prosper his kingdom. And they did, and courses,
like all humanity, greed takes hold, and they become tired,
and they're asking him for a break or if they
can stop, and he says, no, you keep turning, and
so they get fed up. One night, while everybody's asleep,
they start singing about invasion and death and plague, and
here comes to another Viking crew from up north and
sails into their kingdom and raids the town, destroys everyone,
kills everybody. But then they take the giantesses hostage and
take the grindstone hostage and put it on the boat,
and the same thing happens all over again, but this
time he wants them to grind salt to sell at
the ports. They'd interests grind and he tells them to
stop that the boat's full, and they don't stop. They
keep going until finally the boat sinks and all that
salt gets into the ocean, and that is supposedly how
the ocean became so salty.
Speaker 2: I love that. No, that's really really fascinating. Yeah, I
know the power of the mill. I mean, it's one
of those symbols. Unless you get into this sort of material,
you don't realize how much is encoded within it and
how sort of almost universal it is as well, right,
and so there's a lot going on there. And then
also to just like grain symbolism, wheat symbolism, symbolism related
to it, to bread and whatnot. It goes on and
on and on and on. But yeah, the mill was
something that I really really I'm still fond of it,
but it was something I was really looking into a
couple of years ago, and.
Speaker 3: Far as, like with the zodiacs, I want you to
just kind of walk us through some of them, you know,
or some of the ones that stand out to you
that you found fascinating. But selfishly, I do want to
talk a little bit about Capricorn because that that was
my sign. Oh, I know that there's all kinds of
like dark symbology with that far as you know, the Lucifer,
the hybrid half goat man and swimming in the abyss
and things like that, So I definitely wanted to probe
a little bit on that with you.
Speaker 2: Definitely, definitely, I'm happy to do that. Capricorn is my
wife's son sign and I'm a cancer and they're on
opposite ends of the ecliptic, and so we kind of
bonded over Saturn and Capricorn with her, and then she's
kind of you know, she's interested in the Cansarean side
of things, and so there's a nice polarity or axis
that we have at least with that. But yeah, you know,
one of the signs that comes to mind right now,
because this is the season that we're in under the
tropical schedule, is Gemini, and so we're in Gemini season,
and I think it's really interesting that there is so
much going on on the world stage that has to
do with conflict, aggression, civil war breakups, potential world war
and things like that because the Gemini Twins, you know,
the symbolism behind it is that there's always one positive
twin and one sort of negative twin, or one twin
that's more light and the other one that's more dark.
And it's interesting because when you look into hero twin myths,
oftentimes these twins are set to come from a central location,
and so sometimes they're said to be born from a
cause macgg basically, And to me, the way I look
at this is that they're really saying that they come
from the one, or that they come from a monad
or symbolically a seed or something like that. But even
within the one or within the seed or the egg,
there's polarity, right, There's a positive vent and a negative ent,
almost like a magnet or something like that. And so
this positive and negative comes from a central place. So
in a way, we're kind of talking about non duality
to duality, and this idea of these twins getting along
and creating things is kind of a common sort of
theme that I've picked up on over time. And so
as an example, in Rome, you have the hero twins
Romulus and Remus. Romulus was the first king of Rome
and is actually where we get Rome from, and together
they built the first wall in Rome. And I think
it's fascinating because they had two different ways of building
this wall. It's been said mythically Romulus would use brute
strength and then Remis would actually play music and levitate
the brick into place, or levitate the stone into place. Right.
What I've later learned is that a lot of hero
twin myths actually are talking about the difference between an
agrarian society versus a nomadic society. And the agrarian society,
the sedentary society has a completely different lifestyle than the nomads, right,
and they even have two different ways of looking at art.
And so what I've picked up is that nomadic cultures
actually prefer art that unfolds over time, so this is
say poetry, this would be music and things like that,
versus agrarian society prefers art that unfolds over space. And
it's been referred to as the plastic arts, and so
they excel in visual arts, right, iconography, graphic visual things, paintings,
architecture would be another huge sort of thing, right, And
so this is actually echoed. I'd love to hear your
opinion about this, but this is echoed in the story
of canaan Abel as well. And so I was thinking
and Jacob and Esau, Yeah, exactly right.
Speaker 3: They're both complete opposites, polar opposites.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So my understanding is humanity, all
of humanity at one point was nomadic, and so this
is very much embedded in our roots. It's very primordial.
And so the dynamic is that it's the agrarian that
actually prevents the nomad from being able to migrate and
to travel, because if you set up shop and you
start establishing towns and cities and empires, that means that
the nomad is going to be prevented from traveling further, right,
because you're actually putting up borders. This is really interesting
because with the story of Romulus and Remus, they build
this wall together. And what's been said is that Romulus
kills Remus and the sort of act that got him
killed was jumping over the wall. So the nomadic twin
jumped over the wall, meaning he's crossing a border. And
so Romulus killed him, right, and so Cain kills Abel.
And if I'm not mistaken, Kane established the first town,
is that right, the first town or first city or
something along those lines.
Speaker 3: Once he killed his brother and he was exiled, Yeah,
he instead of being a nomad and you know, wandering,
he set up towns and cities. And another correlation with
Jacob and Esau was they distinctively set up the differences,
like you had said, because as you were saying that,
that was kind of going off in my head. I
recently wrote a book called The Epic of Esau and
talked about these brothers. But they painted him as a
wild man, you know, a sasquatch kind of. They said
it was. He was covered in harry from head to toe,
like a Harry cloak, and he was a mighty hunter
of the field. He was a man's man, and some
of the Jewish legends has him killing Nimrod, battling to
the death and killing Nimrod. But then they paint Jacob
as this I hate to say this, but I mean
it's kind of how they painted him, kind of like
a sissy boy. And they said that he was a
man of the tent, and he was, you know, a
man that dweiled in tents and studied and read books
and done these kind of things. So it's kind of
like you were saying the aguarrian or am I saying that, right? Yeah, agrarian.
They painted him kind of like that he was a
knowledge and knowledgeable man and wanted to study.
Speaker 2: And wow, yeah that's really really interesting. Yeah, So to me,
it's it's fascinating that this is the case. So what
I've read is that this difference between the agrarians or
the sedentary peoples and the nomads is essentially encoded in
most or all hero twin myths, and so when you
have the twins, this is sort of the difference, right,
And it's interesting as well. What I've read is that
there was a couple of examples that I've come across
where Gemini season was referred to as the brick Mold.
Apparently this is what the Babylonians referred to for Gemini season.
So they had twins that they saw up in the heavens.
They're called the Great Twins. They're actually massive, they're giants,
and they're holding battle axes as well, so there's always
this sort of warring kind of dynamic with the twins.
And this relates to me the symbolism of even just
the number two. And so when I first started out
in my symbolic journey, I thought the number two meant
sort of togetherness. I thought with the twin symbolism, I
thought it was more sober brotherhood sort of thing, right,
a brotherly sort of thing. And what I later learned
is that it's actually the first number of aggression. It's
the first number of conflict. You know. So if you
have the one, the monad, the supreme unifying presence, or
what have you, and it is split into two, almost
like cell division or something, now you even have two
things to even war against each other. So some people
have said that the age of Gemini was basically marked
with war, and this is one of the signature sort
of things. And so a lot of these hero twin stories,
they do really well for a while, and sometimes they
accomplish great things together, but sort of tensions a kind
of flare up, and things come to a head and
then one twin kills the other twin. But what I
was going to say regarding this brick dynamic is that.
So Gemini season to the ancient Babylonians was referred to
as the brick mold, according to one of my resources,
and this was due to the fact that during Gemini
season is when they would resume construction projects using these bricks,
and this is when they would start baking bricks out
in the open sun. And apparently the ancient Peruvians had
a similar sort of idea with Gemini season, and so
they referred to this time as a pile of bricks, right.
And so this is fascinating because this brings us right
back to Romulus and remis building that first wall. You know,
bricks have to do with more of a sedentary lifestyle, right,
building buildings and establishing something.
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Speaker 2: Guys, No, Matt's have no use to the tower babble.
There bricks exactly exactly right. And so so this is
interesting as well because in the Tarot, the sun card
classic versions of the tarot, you'll see twin brothers in
front of a brick wall, right, So I think it's
actually encoding a lot of this symbolism. And I just
recently recorded I haven't released it yet, but I just
recently recorded a little video called Brick by Brick George
Floyd and the Gemini Ritual. And when the George Floyd
situation was unfolding, I was blown away at how much
symbolism related to twin symbolism. It happened during Gemini season
and bricks played a part. I don't know if you remember,
but pallettes of bricks started showing up all over the place. Yep.
He was even part of a crew called the Brick Boys,
and the housing project he grew up in was called
the Bricks as well. His father was a freemason, free masonry. Masonry,
stonework and bricks and things like that like brick and
stone carry symbolic weight in the lodge system, right, And
they even referred to each other as brothers. And at
every lodge you're going to see twin towers twin pillars. Right.
Going back to Gemini symbolism, the glypher Gemini are the
two vertical pillars right there, and so there's a lot
of symbolism going on there. And then I've heard too
that Freemasons consider themselves to be the descendants or lineage
of Cain, if I'm not mistaken. I don't know if
that's an across the board sort of thing, but I
have heard that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like you got the whole the Theosophist movement, you know,
Madame Levotsky and Alice Bailey and all those Theosophists, they
talk about the Dragon Court, the serpent Seed, and now
I'll draw their lineage back, you know, to Caine and
how he was the first one to civilize Earth and
they were the ones with the claimed with the rights
to lead the world.
Speaker 2: And you got the.
Speaker 3: Whole Mari v Gens and all that stuff woven into
that thing. So yeah, that whole dragon Court stuff weaves
all through freemasonry and royals, and that's a deep.
Speaker 2: Whale, definitely, definitely. So that's what's been on my mind lately,
is Gemini symbolism. And even just real quick with the
George Floyd thing. There was a famous NBA player named
Stephen Jackson at the time, and he kept on referring
to George Floyd as his twin. He said this multiple
times out in the media, and so there's just layers
upon layers upon layers. So I'm not making a claim
on it being orchestrated or completely organic either. I'm just
kind of pointing out the patterns. And that's one of
the things that I'll say that this study has really
given me. There's been times where I'm just paying attention
to things around me, and so many time times there's
an overlay with what sign we're in and what's happening
on the world stage. And I would say right now
is definitely one of those times again with the aggression
sort of thing. Adding to that as well, Gemini generally
corresponds to the arms, So every part on the human
body has a relationship with one of the signs. Gemini
corresponds with the arms, and so this kind of speaks
to the left hand path versus the right hand path. Right,
this idea of aggression of two things sort of butting heads.
And this is interesting as well because we have words
like army right or to be armed, or the right
to bear arms, and so to me, that's kind of
a curious sort of thing. The fact that there is
this overlay with even just the word arm and these
different things the armed forces and whatnot. And I think
it's interesting too, it's the Second Amendment, number two, Roman
numeral two being the Gemini glyph that gives us the
right to bear arms two.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's wild. I never thought about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, there's so many things out there. I think
one of the things that kind of allows me to
maybe stick out in a different way than maybe some
other astrologers or symbologists is having a huge library. I
have a huge library full of books, so I can
look up the number two or twins or Gemini in
dozens and dozens of books. And I have some books where,
you know, literally just one little sentence can give me
a whole new perspective on things and send me down
another rabbit hole. And so having all of these resources
physically available to me, and some older as well, not
just newer symbolic dictionaries, because I've realized that there's a
huge difference between stuff that was produced even just after
the sixties and pre sixties, you know, and then further
back there's a huge quality of difference and there's a
huge perspective shift as well with newer books and older books,
so I'm able to pick up all these little sort
of gems all over the place.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And one thing too is I'll tell people that
that that our Christians are listening to my show and
we dive into these subjects and they kind of get
bent out of shape, and I'm like, you know, there's
a difference between reading the signs of the times and
just you know, putting all the power in these created objects.
You know. That's that's how I look at it. And
I tell them, I'm like, it says in Genesis he
hung the stars and the moon the sun in the
firmament for what for times? Signs and seasons and everything
you've talked about today. You talked about, you know, the seasons.
If you when you acknowledge, you know what season you're
in by the sky, then you can know to be
watchful and looking for these certain you know trends, these
historical trends.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, absolutely, you know. There is a
real practical side of astrology that I think in modern
times gets overlooked, and that has to do with the
seasonal cycles and and sort of what these farmers as
an example, or these are excuse me, nomads we're doing.
So if you're on a nomadic if you're a nomad
and you do these seasonal migrations, you're out all the time,
so you see, you know how things are changing, and
you're seeing how the animals are migrating and the birds
are migrating and things like that, and so it's really
valuable to understand where you were at in the year.
And then of course, if you're a farmer, you know,
it's really valuable to know the new moon and full
moon and what season you're in. And a lot of
these signs actually encode very practical things that the farmer
is going to be aware of if they sort of
know the language, you know, if they know what they're
sort of looking at what's going on there. And I'll
say that one of the things for me that's kind
of frustrating and I accept it though, you know, to
a certain extent, but a lot of people get really
caught up in essentially natal chart astrology and really becoming
obsessive over their chart and their personality and things like that.
And also I would say even becoming obsessive with the
chart of the day or of the week, and people
really really just focusing a lot on what's happening this week,
next week, what the planets are doing, and everything else.
And I think that there's a huge corrupted aspect of that.
And I think that in some ways this is almost
the lowest form of astrology, right, And I think that
there's real symbolic value in understanding sort of the universal
quality of the signs. So you'll notice that I don't
generally on my channel bring up natal charts or sort
of what's happening to a very specific degree. I kind
of try and be more universal about it and talk
about like the deep sort of lessons or implications or
what have you, or even just present information that maybe
allows you to find those lessons for yourself, right, kind
of just sharing, you know, what I've come across. So
I'm more so interested in the deep wisdom that I
think the signs sort of encode, versus like the pop
culture aspect of it, which is what most people are
sort of caught up in.
Speaker 3: Mm hm. Now far as like the uh, the procession,
the procession of the equinoxes and the rising sun and
a certain constellation gives you the ages. Uh, what have
you found particular?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 3: With that? Do you find any which I know, like
through Hamlet's Meal, you've read that. It talks about a
lot of the symbology of the stories were laid around
Abraham's time. Was the ram. He was about to sacrifice
Isaac and there was a ram in the thicket.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: Then Jesus ushered in, you know, the pisces, the twin fish,
and that's what he and he had a band of fishermen.
So I mean, you do see these correlations.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: Have you found anything with that that stands out to
you or any kind of pattern recognitions like you found
with Gemini.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know. I'll say the biggest thing that
I've taken away from that is kind of an understanding
that generally what tends to happen is that the animal
or the association with the Great Age. As an example,
let's just say the Age of Taurus, which preceded the
Age of Aries, and then after that would be the
Age of Ices. And depending on where you're at right now,
some people think we're well into the Age of Aquarius,
or we're stepping into or maybe even that it's down
the road. And I kind of let those sorts of
conversations be for other people, you know, I don't know
what age we're exactly in. I do have a hunch
about what it could mean and symbolically represent as we're
moving into it, but I don't have a concrete, sort
of like claim on exactly where we're at in the cycle.
To me, it does feel like on a larger level,
it feels as though we're in a darker age personally,
just with how people sort of are, you know, how
happy people are, just seeing how distant and ungrounded. In
my opinion, a lot of people are this kind of
anti intellectual, anti spiritual sort of thing. I think a
lot of people who are interested in spirituality as well.
I think that there's a lot of sort of cul
de sacs, and I think there's a lot of trappings
out there for people, and people are falling into it
like all over the place, you know. But I think
it's interesting though. What I've picked up is that generally,
let's just say the age of Taurus, that animal the
bull or an ox is revered, put on a pedestal, worshiped,
and then once that age has come and gone, then
sort of there's an inversion that kind of takes place, right,
so then the bull becomes a sacrificial animal. The bull
becomes something that they sacrifice. So you'll see this in
a bunch of different ways. You know, there's always this
kind of like very positive association with this animal or creature,
and then again it kind of just gets corrupted. And
so the same thing with aries as well, you know,
kind of put on this pedestal and revered, but then
also once that age has kind of come and gone,
then it becomes a sacrificial creature. So that's one of
the sort of larger patterns that I've picked up, but
there are i mean, there's a lot of stuff going
on with also the great age also encoding symbolism that
refers to the opposing sign on the ecliptic, so sort
of the polarity sign. And so that's one of the
things I'll say for people that if they want to
understand astrology, one really excellent thing to keep in mind
is that there is a connection with the polarity of
the opposing sign. So the age of Taurus also has
a relationship with Scorpio, which is on the opposite end
of the ecliptic right or Capricorn has a relationship with
cancer as well. So yeah, so in some ways. There
are twelve signs, and there's a debate with the thirteenth
sign of Fucus, which I think is interesting. But there's
twelve signs, but you can almost look at it as
six pairings as well, so each sign kind of unlocks
information about the opposing sign as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, one thing that kind of just went off in
my head and saying that as far as like the
like the Bible, uh, it calls you know, the adversary,
It compares him to bull imagery a lot. Yeah, right,
you know that they uh, and he's a called bail
Uh that's Molac and the child sacrifice and all that
kind of stuff. But then in Jesus' age, you know,
it's comparing him to uh, you know the keys, the
holder of the keys of death and it says, you
know death, where is thy sting? Talk about you know scorpio.
There you go, the polar opposite of the bull. And
even the Indians they had I had doctor Greg Little
on the show and we talked about what did he
call that pathway of souls and that the Native Americans
would gather at a certain time of year at these
mounds and bring their dead there and cremate them and
do this ceremony and send the smoke up, you know,
into the gates of heaven. But he said had to
be when Scorpius was not in the northern hemisphere, because
they said that they in their belief system, was that
if the smoke of the spirit was going up towards
the Milky Way, that Scorpius his tail would sting and
grab them and keep them from going to heaven.
Speaker 2: Oh.
Speaker 3: Interesting, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 2: No, definitely, I mean this axis between Taurus and Scorpio. Honestly,
I would say of all six pairings, it's one of
the most powerful pairings in the whole entire zodiac. It's
really deep, and there's actually a lot of good reasons
for this, And so if you don't mind, I'd actually
love to explain why there's so much kind of going
on there with that axis. So you have a few
things going on. So with Taurus you have a large
they're called royal stars. You have a large royal star
in Taurus which is called El de Baron or Eldebaran,
and it's actually the eye of the bowl. This star
has actually been compared to Mars. If you look at
it with your eye, with your naked eye, you'll see
that it's massive and it's red. So the red planet
correspondence kind of makes sense with that, and kind of
what I was saying with this inversion of the animals
that also happened with Aldeboron that if you look into
it now, a lot of things you're going to see
is that it's the gateway to Hell. That's one sort
of thing that's been kind of put onto it. But
it used to be highly revered and highly respected a
long long time ago, and so it is called the
eye of Buddha as an example, or the eye of Enlightenment.
And so this is actually where we've got a lot
of symbolism related to the bull's eye. My understanding is
it comes from this star, this particular star, and so
there's a royal star also in Scorpio, and so all
of the fixed signs, like the four living creatures that
you brought up right, they all have a royal star
associated with them. And so Scorpio has Antas, which is
the heart of the Scorpion, and so on opposing ends
of the ecliptic you have these two massive royal stars.
And then also in Taurus you have an asterism called
the Pleiades, right, which would be referred to as like
the Seven Sisters, And so a lot of symbolism has
been attached to the Pliades. And I'm sure you've heard
this before, but there's a lot of people who claim
ancestry from the Pleiades or that arge. Yeah exactly, right, yeah, yeah, exactly,
And so you have all of that going on in Taurus,
and bull symbolism just in general is as old as
the Hills. It's really fascinating. There's so much going on.
That was one of my first symbolic loves actually was
Taurus bull ox symbolism and how nearly universal it is,
or if it's not exactly a bull, they're sort of
an equivalent that kind of overlaps with it, right, depending
on the region, depending on where you're at in the world.
And then when you're dealing with Scorpio, Scorpio is really
close to the Milky Way galaxy, and so when you're
looking towards Scorpio, you're looking at the Milky Way galaxy
and sort of the river right of the Milky Way
it intersects with it like perfectly. And then you're also
looking at what's been referred to as the gate of Heaven.
And so the reason my understanding on what people are
referring to with that is that this is where people
consider to be the galactic center, and so when you're
looking towards Scorpio, you're looking towards the galactic center, and
so that's why it's referred to as the gateway to Heaven.
And when you're looking towards Taurus, you're looking at the
galactic anti center, which means you're looking away from the
center of the galaxy, which is why it's been attached
with the gateway to Hell. Also opposite yep, exactly. Also,
when you're looking towards Scorpio, there is an interesting configuration
that's happening between Scorpio Sagittarius. And then also this supposed
and this is again a matter of debate, and some
people get very heated with this conversation. It's right next
to Ofucus, which would be considered the thirteenth sign if
there was a thirteenth sign, and Ofucus is very very mysterious,
but it's very interesting and it's very potent. There's so
much sort of going on there with Ofucus, and there's
sort of a transcendental quality. In my opinion that Ofucus
has a sort of a distinct identity with that other
signs don't. But then also scorpio is related to death.
You know, Sex and death are the two main things
that scorpio relates to. And even it's the ruler of
the death card in the tarot, the thirteenth card of
the major arcana. So there's the number thirteen kind of
coming around again. But my understanding sort of all of
my research has kind of led me to some of
these conclusions, and it's that primordial man was more so
interested in the fixed stars, less so the wandering stars,
which would be the planets, and less so on the sun. Actually,
so I see it that there is a major shift,
and a number of authors have written about this, but
there is a major shift that can best be described
as a polar to solar shift, right, and this is
something that you'll find in the deeper levels of freemasonry
as well. So in my opinion, when you see the
three pillars, if you see two pillars, there's an implied
third pillar. That central pillar is transcendental and pre dates
or precedes the other two pillars. This is no different
than the kabalistic treal life. Generally, what's highlighted are the
two side pillars bo As and Jackquin, and then you
have this central pillar. So in my opinion, symbolically, one
pillar is generally associated with the moon, which would be
a lunar symbolism. One pillar is associated with the Sun,
which is solar symbolism. But the transcendental pillar, the central pillar,
relates to polar symbolism. So you can say that there
is this shift from polar to solar over time, and
you could say that maybe perhaps there is an intermediary
age in a way that was more lunar based, so
polar lunar to solar. So this is one of the
things I try and highlight is that there's a third
quality here. A lot of times people just refer to
solar lunar, but there's actually a third quality which precedes
these two other qualities, which is polar basically. And so
primordial man was interested in the northern sky and the
fixed stars. So the central hub of the wheel of
the fixed star system would be the Polestar, and so
they were really looking at Ursa major and Ursa minor
going counterclockwise around the Polestar. And this was their skyclock.
Their skyclock was actually Ursa Major going around the Polestar basically,
and so they put a lot of symbolism into Ursa Major,
which is the Big Dipper, and with the Polestar itself.
And I have several resources where the claim basically that
there were multiple cultures. And one example that I have
that I like to talk about is with the ancient
Chinese people. That the ancient Chinese people during this early
timeframe saw eight constellations in the northern sky, and they
had one constellation per trigram. So this is a reference
to their eaching system, so the trigram. Basically they combined
these different trigrams to create what's called hexagrams, and so
there's sixty four hexagrams, there's eight trigrams, and so they
had eight constellations around the pole star. And at least
one resource. This book is called Galactic Alignment by this
guy named John Major Jenkins, and he says this was
around five thousand years ago when they transitioned to being
more solar. So there's a point in time where people
started focusing more so on the Sun. And I have
hunches on why that's the case, but I think that
this was a real sort of phenomenon or a real
sort of arc or trajectory. And when they shifted towards
a solar orientation, because this is really what it's all about.
It's all about orientation. Where's your point of pivot basically,
and so when they shifted to a polar orientation, what's
the center pretty much is another way of putting it.
They basically started focusing on the path of the sun,
and they brought the eight constellations from the northern sky
and transformed or transferred them excuse me, to the path
of the sun. And then they added four more constellations,
giving them twelve constellations basically. And so my understanding is
when this happened, a lot of cultures took a lot
of the symbolism that was associated with ursa major, which
has seven stars, and transferred it to something along the
path of the sun because they became more solar oriented,
and a lot of cultures put that symbolism onto the pliates.
And so that is to say that primordial people they
had a vertical axis that they considered to be the
bridge between heaven and Earth essentially, and then with solar
worship coming into play, they turned to a more horizontal
orientation with the path of the sun. But they needed
to find a new sort of life death gateway axis,
and the best sort of axis that they found, in
my opinion, was from Taurus to Scorpio. So Taurus to
Scorpio the symbolism associated with it, in my opinion, has
an origin story. And I would say that this is
what I've come across with the whole entire zodiac, which
I really haven't talked about in my short videos yet,
but I have talked about it in my longer form content,
that there's an origin story to the zodiac, and the
origin story is in the northern sky, and at some
point the symbolism shifted to the path of the sun,
which is the ecliptic. So that's why I think the
Taurus Scorpio axis is so revered and so important, is
because it retains a lot of core symbolism from an
earlier era.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the original meaning and stuff. That's what I tell
people all the time was I grew up in church
most of my life and read these stories, had them
preach to me and talk to me, and I just
took what they said, you know, as gold. Once I
actually started reading into it myself and started going back
to the Hebrew, you know, and the Greek, the original languages. Man,
there's so much stuff, and so so much stuff that
we missed, and so much stuff that was just misconstrued,
and it got so far off kilter that, Yeah, you
can take your modern viewpoint and put it on anything
and get good moral teachings and lessons from it, but
it's not what the original writers meant for you. It
was not the original message that you were intended to receive.
So if you go back to the original context and
see how they thought, what they believed, and what these
words originally meaned in their context and how they were used,
you're going to come out with a whole different meaning.
And we can debate all day long if it's right, wrong,
or indifferent, But if you're reading something from someone, you
want to get the message that they are trying to
give you, not the message you're trying to twist it into.
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm hmm, yeah, exactly right. And so I think
that's one of the bigger things that I've noticed over
the last handful of years is just how corrupted and
distorted the modern perspective is on so many different things,
and so I do spend a lot of my time
these days trying to learn an older perspective and sort
of older lessons, and you know, really I've been very
much interested in just the idea of tradition, you know,
and preserving a tradition and the value of a tradition,
and of passing things down to people versus always being
concerned with the new thing and sort of progress, you
know in air quotes, if you're just listening to this
and so, to me, there's a lot of value there
and I appreciate it also as well. The older and
older I get, you know, sort of these wisdom keepers.
And what I've learned actually kind of related to that
is a lot of these wild man figures are kind
of wisdom keepers from a primordial era, and that that's
sort of the symbolism that's attached to them, is that
what I've noticed is when you're referring to like the
green man or the wild man, and they live out
in the wilderness and they maybe are more nomadic and
things like that, they have an understanding of certain lessons
and truths that modern people don't have. And so it's
a lot of times those people that come to the
village or come to the city, which they're reluctant to do.
And nomadic peoples don't really care to step foot in
the city, you know, it makes them feel out of place.
It's like fish out of water or something. But a
lot of times these figures will bring wisdom from an
earlier era and give that to modern peoples. And a
lot of times I don't know if this is the
same with Esau. Was he ever connected with holding like
a like a club or like a stick or a
staff or any thing that did he ever carry anything
like a like a pole or anything, or not so much?
Speaker 3: It didn't come right out like say in the biblical
text it says that It just says that he was
a mighty hunter of the field, and that he was
so mighty that even Nimrod had built up jealousy and
envy against him, and they kind of had like a
high lander clash. There can only be one mighty hunter
kind of deal, uh. But the extra biblical texts talk
about him using bows. Oh there you go, and then
he ends up part of that trading of the birth
right according to like the Book of I think his jashure.
It's an extra biblical book, but it said that in
that trading of the birth right, he ended up getting
like a specially a special sword that was endowed with
the power of with the name of Yahweh in it
or something like that. It was supposedly like Mathuselis's sword
that he ends up getting that trading of his birth right.
Speaker 2: Interesting. I mean, this we've in pretty nicely with what
I was kind of trying to get at. But a
lot of these figures that kind of represent this, I
see a lot of these figures as being very mercurial. Personally,
I put a lot of stock into the planet Mercury,
but then also a lot of deities that are associated
with Mercury. And oftentimes it's the mercurial figure that does
give information to the people or will oftentimes introduce a
language or an alphabet or something like that right to
the people. And in my opinion, you know, Mercury is
a psychopomp so he's a guide of souls. So he
goes between realms, and they go between realms, in my opinion,
through this axis that connects all that is above with
all that is below. That's kind of the symbolism behind it.
So just briefly, My sort of cosmology or metaphysics is
basically that there are realms above and below and they're
connected through their center. The center is of key importance,
and so in some ways it's not unlike our chakra system,
even if it's just symbolically a system, right, And so
let's just say you do have seven chakras. Chakra means
disk or wheel, and so it's the center though, that
connects all of them with your spine, and so to me,
getting to your center is of supreme importance. You know,
we're kind of all like our own wheel. The external
part of the wheel symbolically is considered to be the
least balanced part of the wheel. It's the middle of
the wheel that's the most balanced part of the wheel,
and it's considered to be the transcendental aspect of the wheel.
And so you'll see Buddha meditating in the middle of
a wheel sometimes, or he gained enlightenment at a world tree,
right at a tree. And the tree is the perfect
sort of overlap with a wheel as well, because you
have all these branches and roots, but they're all connected
through the center, through that central trunk like an axle,
Like an axle exactly so it's the axle of the
wheel that is the most transcendental part of the wheel.
And so when you get to the center symbolically, and
I really think you get there by being present, and
there's other things that you have to do, but I
think presence is a huge part of it, the eternal
now right, being in that space. And when you get there,
you become what's referred to as the prime mover, the
unmoved mover, and you cause the wheel to turn by
being that central axis, basically, this immutable central axis. And
I really think all leaders essentially represent this, that they
want to be the point of pivot for their people.
They want to be the point of orientation for their people,
they want to give their people direction. That's kind of
what the center represents. And I see it that my
sort of perspective is that all things emanate from the
center and then also return back to that same center.
It's not unlike a torus field or something. And so
when you look at say the dot as an example,
the dot symbolically represents all that is, so the cosmos
or universe itself in totality, the oneness of all that is,
but it also represents the point in the middle of
all that is as well that point of pivot in
the center. And so this symbol of the center and
the cosmic center or interstellar sort of center or axis
is referred to as the world axis. Right, and so
Hamlet's mill, the middle of the mill, the middle of
the wheel, it's referred to as the axis moondi or
the world axis. And this is the idea that the
realms above and below are connected, and there is this
symbolic bridge between the above and below, and essentially this
is sort of the foundation for all of our symbolism
in my opinion, in today's world. So something as simple
as a pen that I'm holding up right now, or
a tree or a tower, the tower babel right the
mountain or a stone, it all goes back to world
axis symbolism. I'm pretty passionate about that because it unlocks
a whole nother layer of symbolism in my opinion. And
even the sword itself is a world axis symbol been said,
and so the poll or the staff as well. This
is why a lot of figures that are mercurial or
have some sort of authority are heavily connected to these
types of objects, whether it's a wand you know, or
something along these lines. Right, the herbit holds a staff,
the magician, and the magician card holds a wand up
to the heavens. The fool he's always carrying a stick
on his shoulder. Right. This is the classic symbol of
the shepherd as well, is having a shepherd's crook or
having a staff or a pole. Right. So it's the
sort of main object associated with the traveler or the messenger.
But on one hand, it also represents the way in which
you travel, you know, between realms, just like mercury or
something like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's pretty wild man. See I'm like a I
tell people all the time, I'm a generalist. I know
a little bit about a lot of different topics.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So that's why I love talking with people like you,
because you can give me a whole new layer of
understanding on some of this stuff. I love these conversations.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, man, of course, absolutely.
Speaker 3: Well what else she got? We got a little bit
more time with you. I want to try to milk
as much from you as I can while I got you.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, definitely. Well, you know you brought up
Capricorn earlier, and so I've mentioned it a couple of times,
but there's so much to talk about with that. So Capricorn, right,
I mean, it's really interesting. So Capricorn is the first
sign of winter, right. And there's a whole debate as
well about when certain signs actually begin. There's lots of
schools of thought about the proper system. There's different schools
of thought from all over the world regarding all of
this stuff. But for all intents and purposes, let's just
say Capricorn is the true beginning of winter, right. Well,
I mean there's a lot to be said about that.
This is also symbolically like the beginning of the return
of the sun, right, And so there's actually kind of
a joyous aspect to Capricorn season and the winter solstice
and that the sun is actually returning. You're not really
going to see it quite yet, but it's actually starting
to return, right, So the shortest day of the year
being right there at the winter solstice. Right. So it's
associated with Saturn as well. A lot of people have
all sorts of things to say about Saturn. I did
a presentation. I did two presentations actually called the Lost
Law of Saturn and in my opinion, there's something to
be said about a fall from grace with Saturn, and
that Saturn was once viewed as being more positive and
was once viewed I think there was more of a
feminine correspondence with Saturn as well. So Saturn associates with
Chronos or even I would say the Crone as well,
is related. Is part of the conversation, and most people
view Saturn today as being of course, and it makes sense.
I understand a slow lumbering planet cold related to lead, right,
all the planets relate to a different metal. And you know,
under the traditional system, which is what I generally follow,
a seven sign or seven planet system, you know, it
is the end of the line. It's the slowest planet, right.
It takes like twenty seven or twenty eight years for
it to make one sort of complete cycle. There's all
this lore though, however, that suggests that Saturn maybe was
the first Sun or even the first pole star or
something like that. And I think this is sort of
the fall from grace that I'm referring to, is that
it once had more of a prominent central position, and
it seems as though from what I gather that it
kind of got moved out perhaps, right, It's almost in
a way what I've said before, is it kind of
reminds me. Reminds me of like a family and the
first born son, the first fruit, growing up and getting
older and going through the changes and becoming an old
man and everything else, and moving on and going through
that whole trajectory before any of the other children. Right,
I kind of see that with Saturn symbolically a.
Speaker 3: Lot of like Christian contexts. You know that they signed
Lucifer and Satan, you know, to Saturn, right right now,
you got that that verse where it talks about you know,
how thal have fillen a Lucifer, you know exactly it's
to day star. But of course that that you know,
there's a lot of back and forth with that, but
the Lucifer is not even the real name. That was
a mistranslation from the Latin Vulgate. It was a lot
of people think they were referring to the planet Venus
and that scenario. Right, But as he was telling that
story that that popped in my head.
Speaker 2: Oh exactly, No, No, there's a complete overlap there for sure. Right.
So now when people think of Saturn, they think of
an old man white beard, father time. Uh, there's obviously
the whole dynamic with Saturn eating its children. That's a
that's a real deal sort of, it's a real correspondence,
and I kind of see this as it being related
to the idea that especially I see it in today's world.
I don't know if it was always like this, I'm
inclined to think it wasn't, but the older generation kind
of feeding off of the younger generation in many ways.
And when you look at the older generation and the
opportunities that they had, even just financially and career wise,
versus the younger generation, it's very, very different. And there's
even all chemical texts where Saturn is taking his scythe
and chopping off the legs of Mercury, Mercury having this
youthful sort of quality, you know, related to travel and
things like that, and so Saturn basically turning Mercury into
being an immobile sort of figure. Right. So to me,
that's kind of an overlay Saturn eating its children, kind
of preying on the youth, relying on the youth sort
of thing I think is part of the relationship here.
But what I want to mention with Capricorn is that
there is so much northern symbolism that associates with it,
it's completely mind blowing. As an example, this is when
we have Christmas right during Capricorn season, and so where
does Santa come from? Famously from the North pole, right,
And I would say that Santa actually is the pre imminent,
main sort of pop culture northern deity in my opinion.
And a friend first told me this, and he's much
older than myself. But when I started getting into all
of this stuff, I kept on mentioning the importance of
the North and how there is a real sort of
correspondence there that people should be aware of. In fact,
I don't know if you've heard this before, but I
think there's something to be said about the Garden of
Eden existing in the North, in the northern part of Earth,
which is sort of a symbolic center basically of Earth,
and that there is a migration away from the North
and so and that paradise or a Golden Age or
utopian sort of society or civilization potentially existed in the
northern portion of Earth. And there's even some claims, I know,
you can get far out and stuff, there's claims that
it still exists as an example, or that it's a
mythical sort of place, right, sort of this some people
have referred to this as like a hyperspace kingdom. But
there's all of these different claims about mythical cities and
kingdoms and things like that, and I see it that
there's this kind of deep esoteric northern correspondence there. So
Santa comes from the north, and obviously he gives children
these gifts. It's interesting because Ursa Major has been viewed
as a constellation representing reindeer, seven reindeer actually, and so
it's almost kind of like the seven reindeer of Versu Major.
And then Santa symbolically could be the North star. Also
just the tradition of Christmas as well. You put a
tree in your home and you decorate it. It's not
uncommon to a star on top of the tree. In
my opinion, this is the world tree, and in my opinion,
this is the North star. This is the pole star, right.
And so there's also a really fascinating relationship with midnight
holidays and Capricorn and Saturn as well. And so my
understanding is when you're looking at a clock, twelve o'clock
is the northern position. Basically just like on a compass, right,
So twelve o'clock midnight is pointing upwards, which all compasses
as well point north, but north would be at the
top of the compass, the same position where the number
twelve is. And this is when you have midnight mass, right.
This is also when we have New Year's Eve, right,
And so the holidays that we have that are based
around midnight, and even too just literally getting gifts from Santa. Right,
there is this midnight sort of night time kind of
dynamic with everything, and so to me that's a really
fascinating correspondence as well, because we're dealing with father time
and so literally this is the point in the year
where time kind of starts over, if you will, or
that it's the end of a cycle the beginning of
another one. So there's a lot of stuff going on there.
And I think it's really fascinating too that Saturn has
always had this restrictive quality that's been associated with it. Right.
I'm not sure if that's something you've ever come across,
but people like to often talk about Saturn being contractive
in nature, and this is usually brought up in contrast
to Jupiter being more expansive in nature, and so this
would be more so of masculine in my opinion, like
a true masculine sort of dynamic, this expansive nature. I
think the Jupiter correspondence makes sense with that. I also
think the sun makes sense with that too, like the
rays of the Sun emanating from the Sun itself. But
to be more contractive and restrictive is actually more feminine
because it's actually more receptive as well, right, And so
I'm thinking of the Yoni versus the phallus, and so
when you contract something enough, and this is why Saturn
relates to boundaries and walls and sort of partitions and
things like that as well. So even like I always
think of an eggshell, right, the shell of an egg
being very very Saturnian. It's keeping everything sort of contained within. Right.
It's interesting when you think of this containment or this restriction,
where does that go. It goes back to the center, right,
It goes back to the middle of the system of
whatever it is you're referring to. So Saturnian symbolism actually
has related to it, this idea of going back to
the middle, going back to the center path in my opinion, right,
I think that that's one of its true sort of
positive lessons associated with it basically. And so even winter,
you know we're dealing with the winter solstice, everyone goes inside, right,
You're not expanding outwards, you're not spending time outdoors because
there is no sun. So everything about winter literally has
this sort of containment kind of dynamic with it, which
is very Capricornian. Right. Also, Capricorn begins what I refer
to as like a triune sort of pattern with the
following signs that are all very watery. So with Capricorn,
it's a sea goat, but it's an Earth sign, right,
So it's a half fish half goat hybrid, so it's
an Earth sign, but it has this aquatic dynamic to it.
The following sign is Aquarius. The old ruler of Aquarius
using the traditional system is Saturn itself as well, so
there's a Saturnian connection with both Capricorn and Aquarius. And
Aquarius is an air sign, but yet it's the water bearer,
so there is this watery dynamic associated with it as well, right,
And it's been said that Aquarius provides the waters for
the celestial ocean. So you'll actually notice even if you
go off of the ecliptic the path of the sun.
You'll see that there's other constellations that are more watery
sort of in nature, aquatic in Nati, and then you
have Pisces, which is literally a water sign itself. So
the last three signs skew towards water, and to me,
the Capricorn dynamic with it kind of relates to the
idea that I have a hunch or my suspicion is
that a lot of cultures viewed their adversarial figure and
perhaps viewed either the underworld or hell as being underwater,
not under earth. That's more of a modern sort of conception,
you know. So I think it's interesting, right, the devil
carries a pitchfork. That's one of the ideas that he's
always associated with, this pitchfork or trident, right, kind of
just like Poseidon and a lot of other watery sort
of deities. And so that's the card that Capricorn corresponds with,
by the way, is the devil card. The devil card
being the fifteenth card in the major econa, and he's
always generally seen in a subterranean place with fire and
brimstone and whatever else. But I think ancient peoples maybe
saw this same figure as being more watery in nature,
aquatic in nature, and that the underworld was actually under
the ocean or somebody of water.
Speaker 3: Yeah, especially in ancient times, because this was a time
that you know, they thought that they sailed out far
enough that they would file off, and they had all
the legends and miss about the kraken, right, and all
these sea beasts and chaos dragons coming out of the
sea and devouring ships, and so the sea was known
to be chaotic and death so exactly I could easily
see that correlation.
Speaker 2: Definitely, definitely. Yeah, No, I think it makes sense, And yeah,
that was something I looked into a handful of years ago.
I'm like, oh, man, I think the under earth dynamic
is more of a relatively kind of like more of
a modern sort of conception idea. But in freemasonry and
in other systems, by the way, you know, this idea
of a life of birthing axis or death axis. I
think there was one main axis that people were concerned with.
I think it's still the main axis, which is the
northern axis, but it's been associated with almost all of
the pairs in the zodiac and actually Capricorn and cancer
are no exception. So there's a lot of material out
there about different schools of thought claiming that.
Speaker 3: Cancers the polar opposite how he was talking about Taurus
and the scorpio.
Speaker 2: Okay, yep, yep, cancer Capricorn, and so Capricorn has been
viewed as the gateway of the gods and cancer has
been viewed as the gateway of man, and that there's
this idea that mankind symbolically comes through cancer. This relates
very strongly to royal arch freemasonry, which is one of
my most popular videos that I made. When you look
into royal arch freemasonry and there are tracing boards and
artwork and everything, there's always two pillars, and there's an
arch that connects the two pillars. In the middle of
the arch, the very top of the arch, which would
be symbolically the top of the firmament in my opinion,
there's the keystone, and the keystone oftentimes has the cancer
glyph right in there, and so sometimes the keystone is
removed and there's like an eye of providence on top
and it's emanating light. The light is shining through that hole.
And so this is the idea that we come through cancer,
and oftentimes on the bottom of that tracing board or image,
you will have symbolism related to death, right, so you'll
have a coffin and a skull and things like that.
And what it's referring to is this gateway of man
concept cancer and cancer relates to the moon. There's a
lot of lunar symbolism that corresponds with pregnancy and childbirth right.
Cancer is the only sign ruled by the moon as well.
And even a lot of words like even man. My
understanding is a lot of words that begin with man
or m i N or m e N actually go
back to the moon. So I'm thinking of a month
that's a known classic example that it's actually moonth you know,
in a way, minute also goes back to the moon.
Min menstruation, men also goes back to the moon, but
also man and men and so it's kind of there's
this idea symbolically that people have put forward that it's
almost like we're moon children, right, something along these lines, right,
And so there's a birthing aspect related to the moon
that you kind of can't take away or ignore. And
then there's a clear death sort of correspondence with the
sun as well, or excuse me, with Capricorn. You know,
again the sun being the furthest away from our northern
hemisphere location, right, so it's cold and everything else, and
so there's the death dynamic with winter for sure. And
this is actually winter is when a lot of older
people tend to pass, you know, you don't have the
vitality of the sun kind of keeping you going and
all this daylight and everything else. So I've heard that
winter time is when a lot of people who have
issues tend to pass. And yeah, so gayway of man, cancer,
gayway of the gods, Capricorn, that's a classic sort of
thing that people can look into if they're interested.
Speaker 3: Man, Yeah, you blew my mind today, Mario. I definitely
want to have you back and pick your brain some
more if you're willing to come talk with us man
for sure.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, absolutely, Yeah. We just barely scratched the surface here,
so I'm happy to do it. And I like your
perspective and to be honest with you, you know, Christianity is
calling me in many ways, and so you know, just
to have someone to bounce some thoughts off of in
that regard, and there's a huge dynamic there that we
can get into the symbolism of the cross, symbolism of Christ.
There's a huge relationship with aries symbolism related to a
lot of kings and lords and emperors, which what was that,
the Golden Lease, the Golden fleece? Yeah, yeah, exactly, So
there's a lot we can riff on. So absolutely, man,
anytime you want to have me back, I'm down. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, before we even get off today, I'll be sure
to send you some dates, man, then we'll get set
up because I definitely want to keep talking to you. Man,
I love these conversations.
Speaker 2: Beautiful, beautiful, right on.
Speaker 3: Well before we go, man, just in case somebody tuned
in halfway through or was doing dishes or laundry and
missed the opening, just go ahead and plug your stuff
one more time for those that missed it.
Speaker 2: For sure. So people can find me at Symbolic Studies
dot com. I also have a Patreon where I have
exclusive content. So I'm actually going through right now the
major arcana in the tarot. There's twenty two cards. I'm
doing an hour long presentation or right around there for
each card. I just completed my fifteenth episode, so I've
got seven more to go. But if people want to
deep dive into the tarot, they can check that out.
It's just five bucks a month basically. And then I
also have a podcast too that you can find on there,
but everything they can find on my website, so all
my social media accounts and everything else are linked from there.
Speaker 3: All right, awesome, man, Well, I appreciate you. Man. Like
I said, I enjoy these conversations and diving into this
stuff and learning as much as I can. I think
this stuff is very fascinating and there's so many connections
that you can be made because I'm the type of
person that there's a lot of people in the Christian
space that are very rigid and they're very closed minded
and stuff. But I'm one of these types of guys.
I think knowledge, wisdom, all that kind of stuff can
be gained from everybody. Everybody has puzzle pieces, and it's like,
if you're not having these conversations, you're not exchanging puzzle
pieces with people, so therefore you're not improving your worldview
and your thirty thousand foot view of this thing that
we call life.
Speaker 2: So yeah, you're exactly very important, right on. No, you're
speaking my language, man, Well, thanks again for the invite.
I had a great time.
Speaker 3: Oh man, I really appreciate it. I had a great
time also. Well, guys, if you enjoyed that, you had
a great time, and you just got that it scratched
just a little bit and you're burning for some more,
go check out his stuff. I'll be sure to have
a link down in description and try to make it
easy for you, guys, if I can remember. I know
I'm terrible for that sometimes, but I will try my best, guys.
But if you enjoyed that, check him out, guys, and
I'm sure he appreciate it. But until next time, Torch
is high, guys,