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<v Speaker 1>Well, welcome back to another episode of the Ruby Rooks Podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm one of your co hosts today, Valentino Soul, and

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<v Speaker 1>I'm joined by Ayush Ayush, do you want to introduce yourself?

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<v Speaker 2>Hello? Hello, I've been on the podcast while hopefully frequent

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<v Speaker 2>listeners who would would know? But yeah, quick and Drawn

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<v Speaker 2>the author of a book called The Reals and X.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm on the Bridge Down Core team and I talk

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of crap about Ruby.

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<v Speaker 3>He just released another version of the book, didn't you.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a minor up bit, just a whole bunch

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<v Speaker 2>of continuity fixes that a very diligent reader sent me.

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<v Speaker 1>The book is so huge, I just imagine a minor

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<v Speaker 1>update is really like.

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<v Speaker 3>A book in its own capacity.

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<v Speaker 2>You can say that again, Like that's what That's what

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<v Speaker 2>makes continuity so unbelievably hard, Like like some of the

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<v Speaker 2>mistakes that this reader said, you know, like some a

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<v Speaker 2>piece of code that I'd written that I kind of

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<v Speaker 2>modify like three chapters later, but I'd forgotten to backboard

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<v Speaker 2>the changes and staff.

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<v Speaker 1>See, this is what I'm waiting AI to do. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>It's just like all this nonsense work that has to happen.

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<v Speaker 1>But like nobody really wants.

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<v Speaker 3>To do it, right.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's why don't we have a reader bot and

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<v Speaker 1>it's just like reads your book for you and it's.

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<v Speaker 3>Like, okay, yeah, based on this latest stuff, you know

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<v Speaker 3>you should update these things.

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<v Speaker 2>Right that would that would be very useful. So we.

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<v Speaker 1>Were talking before the show kind of like Reel's eight

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<v Speaker 1>is on the way here. Everybody's at Reel's World and

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<v Speaker 1>Aush and I are feeling major fomo right now. But

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<v Speaker 1>we're just watching the stream come through of all these

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<v Speaker 1>incredible updates that are just getting pushed out and released

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<v Speaker 1>and nounce today. Some of them we already knew were coming, right,

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<v Speaker 1>some of them we didn't. Do You want to like

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<v Speaker 1>maybe mention your top highlights so far?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So, I mean all I'm looking at is the

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<v Speaker 2>Twitter feed really because we don't have any YouTube streams

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<v Speaker 2>as yet, although the keynote apparently will be up later today, which, honestly,

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<v Speaker 2>Ruby on Rails Foundation is bloody amazing turn around time

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<v Speaker 2>have it at on the same day, but yes, a

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<v Speaker 2>Rails eight. The highlights are authentication prop shaft, the Solid

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<v Speaker 2>Trifecta which is solid cash, solid que solid cable thruster,

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<v Speaker 2>and come all to which the thing that I don't know,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe I haven't a minority of The thing out of

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<v Speaker 2>follow that that I find least interesting is authentication because

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<v Speaker 2>I've always just built my own. I've never been a

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<v Speaker 2>fan of devisor and thing like that. I just bet

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<v Speaker 2>my own, So I don't really care that Reels kind

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<v Speaker 2>of has it because I'll still just use the one

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<v Speaker 2>I made myself.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's fair. You always prefer your own tools in

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<v Speaker 3>the end.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, my ego is too big to let me use

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<v Speaker 2>anything else.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I'm with you.

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like I've seen, you know, we've all kind

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<v Speaker 1>of like been preparing for this. I guess Solid Trifecta

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<v Speaker 1>that they're calling it now, But yeah, I mean it

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<v Speaker 1>definitely makes makes me happy to see, you know more

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<v Speaker 1>and more not have to get set up when you

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<v Speaker 1>first start up a new app. There's nothing worse than

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<v Speaker 1>configuring something when you just want to get going.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, completely, And I think just being able to

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<v Speaker 2>drop the reddest dependency is something that's quite big. And

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<v Speaker 2>I'm also for like small indie apps. I think having

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<v Speaker 2>the three solid libraries along with all the move to

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<v Speaker 2>its sequel Light is just gonna reduce the amantic complexity

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<v Speaker 2>pretty significantly because you don't need a database ever anymore either,

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<v Speaker 2>and you just like you have one sequel Light database

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<v Speaker 2>for your actual database, you have another one pay cash,

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<v Speaker 2>you have another one pick you, and it's just like

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<v Speaker 2>just creating files. It's not that hard, right.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, you know, the last leg of this

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<v Speaker 1>is like wrapping everything in web assembly, so you could

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<v Speaker 1>just deploy to you know, anywhere, Yeah, which I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know that will happen in our near term. But you

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<v Speaker 1>know what, one thing I noticed from the feed, I

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<v Speaker 1>was curious what you thought about. It's kind of what's

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<v Speaker 1>coming in Reel's eight point one, which are like the

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<v Speaker 1>three bigger features that I feel like have been missing

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<v Speaker 1>from Reel's lot, which is the action notifier, the search,

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<v Speaker 1>and house MD, which I thought was funny as a

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<v Speaker 1>markdown editor.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I love that name. So yeah, they announced house

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<v Speaker 2>MD a while ago, and it's something I've kind of

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<v Speaker 2>been keeping my eye on. But I have a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit of scout issue here with tricks because it's a

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<v Speaker 2>fairly fiddly edited to years. You can't extend it much.

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<v Speaker 2>They don't maybe recently their stance and it has changed,

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<v Speaker 2>but they didn't seem particularly involved in trying to improve

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<v Speaker 2>it or even like have community involvement. Like I remember

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<v Speaker 2>I created a pull request a literally added an undocumented

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<v Speaker 2>event to the read me, and I think that pull

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<v Speaker 2>request remained open up until two or three years later on.

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<v Speaker 2>It's literally just literally two lines that read me. So

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<v Speaker 2>and I know other people who've kind of tried to

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<v Speaker 2>improve or stuff like that and just not really had

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<v Speaker 2>much success working with the maintainers. So yeah, house MD,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm just tempering my expectations a little bit because, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>just I think they've obviously built what works for them,

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<v Speaker 2>which is not always going to work for everyone else's

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<v Speaker 2>use case. And I'd like the community to be able

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<v Speaker 2>to improve it and just make it better. But whether

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<v Speaker 2>that's going to be viable, we'll find out. But the

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<v Speaker 2>other thing that you.

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<v Speaker 3>Bring up a great point.

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<v Speaker 1>That's actually one thing I've been a little bit concerned

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<v Speaker 1>about with Rails in that, like it's a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>you know, as things grow and get you know, some

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<v Speaker 1>solid foundation framework wise, like the need for reducing bloat

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<v Speaker 1>becomes ever greater, especially as the number of maintainers doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>really you know, increase too much in proportionality at least,

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<v Speaker 1>so I didn't worry, like, right, like I've noticed not

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<v Speaker 1>just with tricks, but other you know, pieces of the framework,

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<v Speaker 1>very similar feedback, right, Like it's very long churn process

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<v Speaker 1>for changes that really don't affect anything.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, honest.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I you know, hopefully you know, with the

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<v Speaker 1>Rails Foundation and everything like that that is on the radar,

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<v Speaker 1>make sure that the maintainership at least stays up to

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<v Speaker 1>date with the progress of the rest of the framework.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, you'd hope so. But like I've read the

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<v Speaker 2>kind of remit of the Rails Foundation and open source

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<v Speaker 2>isn't really one of those things Like I see a

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<v Speaker 2>lot on social media, but why can't the Rails Foundation

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<v Speaker 2>fund the best gem at that GEMA this maintainer And

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<v Speaker 2>I'm like, that's not They never claimed that they would

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<v Speaker 2>be doing any of that. Like if you read the

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<v Speaker 2>initial announcement that like open sauce doesn't feature really in

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<v Speaker 2>their mission or whatever you want to call it, like

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<v Speaker 2>they want to. They'll like they'll focus on like improving documentation,

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<v Speaker 2>which is something that's happening. Yes, yeah, funding open Sauce

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<v Speaker 2>is not one of the things they do. And we're

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<v Speaker 2>right or wrong. It's not something they've ever claim to do, so.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think, yeah, I mean, I don't know that

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<v Speaker 1>they have to throw funding at it. More just like

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<v Speaker 1>organizational like, hey, like we have this increase in the

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<v Speaker 1>code base, and you know, we need maintainers like the

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<v Speaker 1>organizational stuff. I feel like that's that's where I was

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<v Speaker 1>hoping that add to right is that you know, cases

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<v Speaker 1>like this where you know, we we have like only

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<v Speaker 1>so many limited contributors that have like you know, approval

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<v Speaker 1>access to just merge something right, which is good, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>both good and bad, but it's like definitely adds a bottleneck.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I would like to see something where like

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know, people can vote people into contributorship, right,

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<v Speaker 1>Like where we can create a pipeline that just like

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<v Speaker 1>makes this process easier, because like, to be honest, like

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<v Speaker 1>somebody going through and just like approving a bunch of

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<v Speaker 1>the documentation stuff like that would be a huge help,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, And I know that I know that's somebody's

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<v Speaker 1>probably already like working on that, but like every one

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<v Speaker 1>of the reels repos like.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So I think that's where there's a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>of uh mismanagement. I think is because so the Rails

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<v Speaker 2>core team is really good and they have a really

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<v Speaker 2>defined structure like core committees and the issues team, and

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<v Speaker 2>with Rails, they are always on it, like I've always

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<v Speaker 2>got responses to anyprs pretty quickly in rails. But then

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<v Speaker 2>there's some stuff that's in rails that kind of sits

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<v Speaker 2>in this gray area which is kind of in rails

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<v Speaker 2>but not, which is like all the hot wire libraries are.

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<v Speaker 2>They're in rails, but they're kind of not because they're

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<v Speaker 2>owned by Petty seven Signals. Tricks is another one, because

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<v Speaker 2>they had Tricks is action text is in raels, but

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<v Speaker 2>Tricks is in like base camps organizations. It's like Petty

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<v Speaker 2>seven Signals or whatever. It's like, yeah, there are certain

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<v Speaker 2>things that sit in this weird gray area. We're just

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<v Speaker 2>kind of in rails but kind of not. And I

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<v Speaker 2>think that's where all the problems are happening.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, you know, I got to hand it to Shopify.

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<v Speaker 1>They seem to have like at least solved that issue

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<v Speaker 1>with Ruby itself right like they had their own fork

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<v Speaker 1>of Ruby for a while, like handling all of this

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<v Speaker 1>stuff that they've been upstreaming over the years for like

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<v Speaker 1>copy on right and things like that, and I feel like,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, they have had lots of you know, repos

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<v Speaker 1>that were basically versions of that that they made their

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<v Speaker 1>way into the official right like realm so as possible, right,

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<v Speaker 1>Like thirty seven Singles is just another company.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, Like yep, I don't think it possible. We'll just Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>it is a bit of frustration with I know people

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<v Speaker 2>who've contributed to hot Wire, especially at Marco. Roth gave

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<v Speaker 2>a great talk at a few conferences just about obviously

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<v Speaker 2>all the good stuff in Hotwire, but some of his

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<v Speaker 2>frustrations as well, and a lot of that was organizational.

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<v Speaker 2>So we'll just have to see how this stuff evolves.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's just my personal frustration is that like some

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<v Speaker 2>of these things are in rails as defaults electrics and stuff,

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<v Speaker 2>but they aren't in control of the rail score team.

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<v Speaker 2>So that just creates a little bit of mismanagement, I think.

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<v Speaker 2>But we'll see what happens.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>The other two things that you mentioned for Rails eight

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<v Speaker 2>point one are things that I'm very much looking forward tore.

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<v Speaker 2>Like active record search is something that I think is

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<v Speaker 2>gonna really simplify matter.

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<v Speaker 1>That is, like the funniest thing, right, because like the

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<v Speaker 1>whole Rails, like you know, Hype started off of a blog,

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<v Speaker 1>which is like search is like kind of something you

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<v Speaker 1>add to a blog, right, as like one.

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<v Speaker 3>Of your primary features.

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<v Speaker 1>Honestly, it's what you had almost any any site that

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<v Speaker 1>you make with reels. So yeah, I mean it's super

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<v Speaker 1>I'm super excited about that. I hope it's I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>if it's anything like all the other reels you know, interfaces,

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<v Speaker 1>it should be very straightforward. Are you hoping that it

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<v Speaker 1>aligns with any particular you know, search gem that you've

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<v Speaker 1>used in the past.

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<v Speaker 2>No, not really so. I for my book, I wrote

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<v Speaker 2>an entire chapter on search, and that's why. Actually I'm

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<v Speaker 2>quite happy that it's not built into Rails, And I

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<v Speaker 2>didn't really use a GEM. I just used the full

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<v Speaker 2>tech search and trigram search features in Postgress and then

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<v Speaker 2>hand wrote ERL queries. It was a lot of this

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<v Speaker 2>is academic because once you teach a read up how

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<v Speaker 2>to do those things and then you could your level

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<v Speaker 2>of understanding just goes way up. So I'm not really

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<v Speaker 2>concerned about whether it aligns at a certain gem or not.

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<v Speaker 2>The main thing is I just hope it has support

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<v Speaker 2>for full tech search and trigram search because they are strategies.

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<v Speaker 2>Is there full tech search and sequel light, Yes, there is.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh nice, Yeah, I feel like that's something that you know,

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<v Speaker 1>once you realize this there, you're like, why do I

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<v Speaker 1>need other things?

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<v Speaker 3>You know, I mean, until you start using it heavily, but.

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<v Speaker 1>Expose a text column like to search on, it's like

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<v Speaker 1>pretty good.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Like I think again, for the vast majority of

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<v Speaker 2>use cases, just your database, a search is probably good enough.

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<v Speaker 2>Like I can only speak to postcress because I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>used the full tech search in other databases. But it's

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<v Speaker 2>actually really good. It's only when you want to start

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<v Speaker 2>like go going quite advances when you need to reach

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<v Speaker 2>for something like elastic search. Like for the client I'm

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<v Speaker 2>working with at the moment is it's kind of like

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<v Speaker 2>a AI powered search engine for people and companies, kind

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<v Speaker 2>of like a directory of people and companies. And we've

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<v Speaker 2>used elastic search for that because literally the core offering

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<v Speaker 2>is a search engine, so we need something quite bpy.

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<v Speaker 2>But that like that was probably one of the very

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<v Speaker 2>few exceptions when I would go reaching for something like

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<v Speaker 2>elastic search. Is when your core offering is literally search.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I agree with you there.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean I feel like, you know, most apps are

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<v Speaker 1>like business related, like where you'll have a CRM or

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<v Speaker 1>like some classic uh you know solution that you're just

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<v Speaker 1>trying to solve with like your custom data or things

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<v Speaker 1>like that, and that you know, having a just quick

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<v Speaker 1>full text search or and any deep you know, I imagine

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<v Speaker 1>what active search will become. It will just be so great,

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<v Speaker 1>like just just hook it up to a model or

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<v Speaker 1>you know whatever it may be, like a series of models, like.

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<v Speaker 3>I can see it being pretty huge.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think it would really simplify matters. And yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's one of those things that's been a

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<v Speaker 2>bit of a long time coming. But I'm glad it's

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<v Speaker 2>it's it's it's on its way now. And yeah, Action

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<v Speaker 2>notifier is another one, but it's gonna be cool because

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<v Speaker 2>push notifications of just fiddley. That's it's just the nature

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<v Speaker 2>of them. It is that they are just fiddley. And

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<v Speaker 2>if I, if I understanding of what the framework is

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<v Speaker 2>is correct, then it's it's going to handle sending notifications

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<v Speaker 2>to web iOS and Android, so you don't need to

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<v Speaker 2>worry about any of that on your own. Obviously, the

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<v Speaker 2>web stuff is what kind of interests me the most,

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<v Speaker 2>because going forward me personally, my focus is going to

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<v Speaker 2>be completely on PWA's I'm leaving the native stuff behind.

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<v Speaker 2>Even that the second edition of my book is not

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<v Speaker 2>going to have any native stuff, I'm going to remove

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<v Speaker 2>it all in favor of p w A's. So web

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<v Speaker 2>push is something that I need to explain how you

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<v Speaker 2>can do it now in rails, but action notifi would

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<v Speaker 2>just make it easier.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I hope they borrow from Chris Oliver's notice.

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<v Speaker 1>Jim, I've used that in the past and it's like

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<v Speaker 1>very straightforward.

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<v Speaker 3>And you know, doable.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, it's a It is a very easy to

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<v Speaker 2>use interface. I did. I did take a lot inspiration

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<v Speaker 2>from it. Whenever I have built kind of notifications in apps,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not reached for that library myself necessarily. Again, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't really like reaching for dependencies. I prefer building stuff

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<v Speaker 2>myself because I don't know just wired that way. But

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<v Speaker 2>it is a very solid library and I kind of

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<v Speaker 2>look to it for inspiration.

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<v Speaker 1>It does it does add to the list of gems

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<v Speaker 1>that people will have to migrate away from, like yeah, yeah, yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>That's it's kind of it's true. It's it's kind of like, uh,

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<v Speaker 2>just the way rails goes, right, Eventually stuff ends up

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<v Speaker 2>in the platform and then like because ye yet Carrier

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<v Speaker 2>Wave and paper clip for number of years and active

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<v Speaker 2>stories became a thing and then everyone out of my grade. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>it's just the way it goes. But I think I'm

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<v Speaker 2>more looking forward to Rael's eight point one than eight really,

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<v Speaker 2>because yeah, while I was, I think I honestly should

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<v Speaker 2>put something in a swage or every time I mentioned

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<v Speaker 2>my book on this on this podcast.

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<v Speaker 4>But it's a great one, by the way, check it

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<v Speaker 4>out dot com, buy it.

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<v Speaker 2>But I had a like a second edition planned right

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<v Speaker 2>for everything new, and that's going to be like a

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<v Speaker 2>paid upgrade. But looking at everything that's come out, I

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<v Speaker 2>think I'm not actually wait for Reels eight point one

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<v Speaker 2>because then I can cover active rack as search and

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<v Speaker 2>action notifier, which are like key parts of any web application.

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<v Speaker 2>And since I'm kind of standardizing around PWA's, it makes

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<v Speaker 2>sense to wait for action notifier because I don't want

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<v Speaker 2>to build my own system, which is I know going

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<v Speaker 2>to be outdated very soon.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>On the topic of books, I saw Obi Fernandez posting

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<v Speaker 1>an update to the rails way now the Rails eight way.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the Reels eight way. I saw that.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm excited to be honest, I'll probably learn all the

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<v Speaker 1>new Reels eight features.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean that, you know that book's going to

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<v Speaker 2>be solid. It is going to be it's gonna be good.

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<v Speaker 2>Quite a lot of good stuff coming down the pipeline.

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<v Speaker 2>What are your feelings on Camal? Have you used it?

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<v Speaker 2>Do you have any opinions on it?

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<v Speaker 1>I'm interesting, comeal, I'm kind of waiting for it to

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<v Speaker 1>just like mature a little more, you know, all all

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<v Speaker 1>the like you know, the transitions of traffic as an example, yea,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, there's a lot of like shifting sands still

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<v Speaker 1>and just from like I don't personally use it every day,

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<v Speaker 1>so like, just from what I see, it seems to

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<v Speaker 1>be like a lot of the infrastructure is changing around

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<v Speaker 1>as they start to learn more and more the edge

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<v Speaker 1>cases and configuration options and things like that. So I

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<v Speaker 1>do have a couple of, like, you know, Doku apps

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<v Speaker 1>that I would like to migrate eventually, but I'll probably

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<v Speaker 1>wait till next year, to be honest, just to like

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<v Speaker 1>let real Z eight like settle and have everything more firmed.

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<v Speaker 2>Up fair enough, that's a good way to go about it.

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<v Speaker 2>I've kind of just been watching from afar as well

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<v Speaker 2>with Comal, largely because it's DOCA based and I I

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<v Speaker 2>don't understand DOCCA well enough to not be afraid of

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<v Speaker 2>it as yet. So so yeah, it's probably just one

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<v Speaker 2>of those things I need to look at at some point.

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<v Speaker 2>But like, my one frustration with Docker and we even

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<v Speaker 2>Camal in general is that it adds this additional moving

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<v Speaker 2>part of a Docker registry. Like if all I've got

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<v Speaker 2>is a very simple indie app that runs on one box,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't want to deal with Excuse me, I don't

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<v Speaker 2>want to have to deal with the additional complexity of

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<v Speaker 2>pushing to a Docker registry and then my server pulling

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<v Speaker 2>from there. Like it's just me working on it, just

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<v Speaker 2>by myself, running it on one box, Like why can't

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<v Speaker 2>I build the Docker container locally and then just push

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<v Speaker 2>that up to the server.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you make a great point, like why have docer

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<v Speaker 1>if you have one server?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's a great point as well.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean I feel like it it's definitely like

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<v Speaker 1>a foundational choice, right, Like I think of it as

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<v Speaker 1>like legos, right, like where you have like you know,

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<v Speaker 1>if you just build legos on a table, like yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>that's that's fine. But you have like a sheet where

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<v Speaker 1>you're like sticking the legos to to build your you

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<v Speaker 1>know thing, it's a lot easier to build it as

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<v Speaker 1>it doesn't move around. And I don't know, I feel

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<v Speaker 1>like it's kind of like that as it's like laying

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<v Speaker 1>the foundation for you to add more stuff that you

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<v Speaker 1>know eventually you're gonna need to add it.

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<v Speaker 3>Y you know, I feel like the probability.

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<v Speaker 1>Of not extending what you have if you actually make

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<v Speaker 1>something that you know you use every day, it's like

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<v Speaker 1>very low chance that you're not just going to add

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<v Speaker 1>something new to your stack. And so I like that

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<v Speaker 1>it's there, right, Like it just it is like the

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<v Speaker 1>modular framework for that aspect of things. But at the

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<v Speaker 1>same time, ye know, docer development is like it definitely

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<v Speaker 1>slows you down, Like there are educases that you can't

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<v Speaker 1>even imagine from using platforms, right. Cross platform use of

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<v Speaker 1>like a single interface is like it never works out

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<v Speaker 1>like smoothly.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's at some point I want to

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<v Speaker 2>do it just a little deep dive personally into what

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<v Speaker 2>it takes to just deploy a reels app to a

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<v Speaker 2>Linux box with something like Caddy in front of it,

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<v Speaker 2>and just see what if there's a way to kind

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<v Speaker 2>of simplify that without Docker. Yeah, because I just don't

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<v Speaker 2>need docer. But the one big advantage of something like Camal,

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<v Speaker 2>I think, is if you want to sell like a

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<v Speaker 2>one style product that like a web app that you

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<v Speaker 2>just do a one off sale for. I've been thinking

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<v Speaker 2>about this for like months before Once was even a thing.

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<v Speaker 2>This kind of idea was in my mind. There is

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<v Speaker 2>absolutely no sane way to distribute a web app without DOCA.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just this rabbit bol of complexity. Like it just

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<v Speaker 2>gets you telling a customer to kind of do too much.

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<v Speaker 2>Like if I was selling a Rails app like that

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<v Speaker 2>that was a one off sale and without docrizing it,

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<v Speaker 2>I would basically be selling only to other people that

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<v Speaker 2>new Rails. No one else would go anywhere near that.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's a good point.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean distribution of an application that's bumbled up, like

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<v Speaker 1>if you're not like creating an executable or something.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, Yeah, like how do you do that?

404
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<v Speaker 2>I do?

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<v Speaker 3>Like we had Andy on.

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<v Speaker 1>About the Glimmer project, right, and I did, Like I

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<v Speaker 1>like that kind of idea of like literally packaging something

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<v Speaker 1>up as like a binary and like that's how.

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<v Speaker 3>You I mean, because that's a great way to shift things, right.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like okay that those cross platform like distribution is

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<v Speaker 1>like already established and pretty straightforward, and Glimmer is one

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<v Speaker 1>of those frameworks that makes that process easy, right, and

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<v Speaker 1>like the whole like uh you know, Dragon Ruby Toolkit

414
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<v Speaker 1>for game distribution. I feel like all that's really missing

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<v Speaker 1>and I know that like Andy was mentioning that he's

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<v Speaker 1>trying to work on that uh you know, front end

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<v Speaker 1>aspect of the Glimmer project. But yeah, that's what's missing

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<v Speaker 1>is kind of like the web site of that distribution

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<v Speaker 1>where we have like the browsers now, which I think

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<v Speaker 1>the you know, I thought the goal of the browser

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<v Speaker 1>was to be that distribution platform. But it's like the

422
00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:03.880
<v Speaker 1>competition between the browsers has just like stifled progress like

423
00:26:04.480 --> 00:26:05.119
<v Speaker 1>so much.

424
00:26:05.319 --> 00:26:10.559
<v Speaker 3>Like it's kind of remarkable. People are just like okay.

425
00:26:10.240 --> 00:26:12.720
<v Speaker 1>With that, like yeah, we're just gonna like, you know,

426
00:26:13.079 --> 00:26:15.680
<v Speaker 1>no no problem, Like all these browsers are competing, so

427
00:26:15.799 --> 00:26:19.279
<v Speaker 1>like we're just not gonna have a distribution platform for

428
00:26:20.039 --> 00:26:31.039
<v Speaker 1>you know, web. Yeah, it's crazy to me like, yeah,

429
00:26:31.039 --> 00:26:33.119
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I was hopeful with like Travel Ruby

430
00:26:33.480 --> 00:26:36.200
<v Speaker 1>or something like that that we'd see maybe something a

431
00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:40.640
<v Speaker 1>little a little more progress, but uh, I guess it's

432
00:26:40.640 --> 00:26:45.200
<v Speaker 1>hard to sell that, right, Like you, if your end

433
00:26:45.319 --> 00:26:49.240
<v Speaker 1>users are all distributed, how do you how do you

434
00:26:49.279 --> 00:26:50.319
<v Speaker 1>deliver the best thing?

435
00:26:50.640 --> 00:26:56.759
<v Speaker 2>Right? Yeah, it's it's no simple problem. If it was simpler,

436
00:26:56.960 --> 00:26:58.720
<v Speaker 2>it would have probably been solved by now.

437
00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:03.359
<v Speaker 1>Although that does bring me to another announcement with the

438
00:27:04.200 --> 00:27:06.200
<v Speaker 1>Turbo what is.

439
00:27:06.160 --> 00:27:09.319
<v Speaker 2>It hot Wire Native Native?

440
00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:14.720
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, because we did. We had a I'm blanking

441
00:27:14.759 --> 00:27:18.000
<v Speaker 3>on his name now, yeah, Joe. We had Joe on

442
00:27:18.559 --> 00:27:19.599
<v Speaker 3>before a few.

443
00:27:19.400 --> 00:27:22.920
<v Speaker 1>Times, I think, Okay, they were he was talking about

444
00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:25.880
<v Speaker 1>Turbo Native and the progress that he was making there

445
00:27:25.960 --> 00:27:29.839
<v Speaker 1>and apparently has been collaborating right with thirty seven Signals. Yeah,

446
00:27:29.920 --> 00:27:33.119
<v Speaker 1>it happened, which is really exciting because I know the

447
00:27:33.160 --> 00:27:34.799
<v Speaker 1>last time I was messing around with that, it's like

448
00:27:35.400 --> 00:27:37.960
<v Speaker 1>pretty decent. I mean, they're still like he's still got

449
00:27:38.079 --> 00:27:41.160
<v Speaker 1>to write some objective CY or not objective C but

450
00:27:41.240 --> 00:27:44.799
<v Speaker 1>like Swift yeah, and Android like it's small and amunt

451
00:27:44.799 --> 00:27:45.200
<v Speaker 1>of code.

452
00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:49.400
<v Speaker 2>Now, yeah, it's happy, but I think it's it's the

453
00:27:49.480 --> 00:27:52.160
<v Speaker 2>right approach that you still have you have an excert

454
00:27:52.240 --> 00:27:56.160
<v Speaker 2>project on andro Studio project, your code based still separate.

455
00:27:57.160 --> 00:28:00.240
<v Speaker 2>I think that's a very good approach and I I

456
00:28:00.359 --> 00:28:03.759
<v Speaker 2>spoke at length about this at a couple of conferences

457
00:28:03.839 --> 00:28:07.400
<v Speaker 2>last year, as if you look up building Turbo native

458
00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:10.599
<v Speaker 2>apps with my name, you'll find my talk at Friendly

459
00:28:10.839 --> 00:28:14.039
<v Speaker 2>RB last year about this, and I completely agree is

460
00:28:14.039 --> 00:28:17.000
<v Speaker 2>the right approach, and honestly like what they've done. It

461
00:28:17.119 --> 00:28:19.519
<v Speaker 2>just seems more like a rebrand, and I think it

462
00:28:19.599 --> 00:28:23.440
<v Speaker 2>is a rebrand for the better because having Turbo Native

463
00:28:23.480 --> 00:28:26.920
<v Speaker 2>and Strata is separate things, it was just a little

464
00:28:26.920 --> 00:28:31.519
<v Speaker 2>bit confusing, and they've just unified those under this hot

465
00:28:31.559 --> 00:28:36.599
<v Speaker 2>Wire Native umbrella now, so it's one thing, like both

466
00:28:36.640 --> 00:28:40.359
<v Speaker 2>the native kind of worlds are just one thing, and

467
00:28:40.480 --> 00:28:43.880
<v Speaker 2>the documentation is a lot better, which I believe Joe

468
00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:48.440
<v Speaker 2>helped out with. And the other thing was I think

469
00:28:48.559 --> 00:28:52.519
<v Speaker 2>Joe also built a library called Turbo Navigator, which so

470
00:28:52.880 --> 00:28:56.440
<v Speaker 2>a lot of like the native navigation stuff on iOS

471
00:28:56.559 --> 00:29:01.759
<v Speaker 2>you have to build on your own, but an Android

472
00:29:01.759 --> 00:29:04.119
<v Speaker 2>it's kind of part of the platform. So Joe the

473
00:29:04.359 --> 00:29:08.319
<v Speaker 2>slave recal Turbo Navigator, which kind of brought the same

474
00:29:08.759 --> 00:29:12.680
<v Speaker 2>ergonomics to iOS as well, which now I believe is

475
00:29:12.759 --> 00:29:16.480
<v Speaker 2>part of hot Wire Native that does simplify life on

476
00:29:16.720 --> 00:29:20.559
<v Speaker 2>iOS as well. So yeah, it's all all this very

477
00:29:20.599 --> 00:29:26.880
<v Speaker 2>good stuff stuff I'll personally remain quite blissfully ignorant of though,

478
00:29:26.960 --> 00:29:30.039
<v Speaker 2>because I've just had I've had enough of Native in

479
00:29:30.079 --> 00:29:31.440
<v Speaker 2>my life. I don't want anymore.

480
00:29:35.160 --> 00:29:39.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and it's it's gonna be hard to stay away

481
00:29:39.039 --> 00:29:42.480
<v Speaker 1>from it with all this Apple Intelligence stuff now even

482
00:29:42.519 --> 00:29:45.640
<v Speaker 1>increasing the hype, and I imagine you know there's a

483
00:29:45.680 --> 00:29:49.160
<v Speaker 1>Google version of that out there too, you know, drawing

484
00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:51.480
<v Speaker 1>more and more people to their mobile devices.

485
00:29:52.640 --> 00:29:58.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, quite possibly, But yeah, I don't know. I think

486
00:29:59.119 --> 00:30:02.160
<v Speaker 2>PW is I hope just it just it just needs

487
00:30:02.519 --> 00:30:07.559
<v Speaker 2>better marketing, I think. And it also needs, uh like

488
00:30:07.640 --> 00:30:10.960
<v Speaker 2>the the big tech companies to kind of come on

489
00:30:11.079 --> 00:30:13.759
<v Speaker 2>board with it, which is the harder part. Like what

490
00:30:13.839 --> 00:30:17.400
<v Speaker 2>I would really like to see is the ability to

491
00:30:17.400 --> 00:30:20.559
<v Speaker 2>put a button on a website that says installed to

492
00:30:20.599 --> 00:30:23.680
<v Speaker 2>home screen, and you tap it and it just does it.

493
00:30:24.079 --> 00:30:26.799
<v Speaker 2>Because like now, the best solution you can have is

494
00:30:26.799 --> 00:30:28.880
<v Speaker 2>you can have that button and you can have instructions

495
00:30:28.920 --> 00:30:31.759
<v Speaker 2>on what to do, which is usually a click a

496
00:30:31.799 --> 00:30:34.279
<v Speaker 2>share button in an at home screen or whatever. You

497
00:30:34.359 --> 00:30:37.279
<v Speaker 2>can't automate that. There is no API to do that.

498
00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:40.680
<v Speaker 2>But you can see why Apple and Android don't want

499
00:30:40.720 --> 00:30:41.119
<v Speaker 2>to do that.

500
00:30:43.279 --> 00:30:51.079
<v Speaker 3>Why we don't have to get into it.

501
00:30:54.960 --> 00:30:59.079
<v Speaker 2>Something to do with green paper.

502
00:31:02.759 --> 00:31:05.680
<v Speaker 1>I will say, Like, just taking a step back to

503
00:31:05.319 --> 00:31:09.079
<v Speaker 1>the conference again, Reels World, I mean it is packed.

504
00:31:09.279 --> 00:31:11.559
<v Speaker 1>You see the audience and a lot of these photos

505
00:31:11.640 --> 00:31:14.319
<v Speaker 1>and it's kind of exciting to see, you know, people

506
00:31:14.359 --> 00:31:17.720
<v Speaker 1>all over the world coming together making this stuff happen,

507
00:31:17.720 --> 00:31:22.759
<v Speaker 1>the ship and stuff. It's you know, there's no way

508
00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:24.039
<v Speaker 1>reels can be dead with that crowd.

509
00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:29.200
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, real reels is just not the fashionable thing anymore.

510
00:31:29.960 --> 00:31:34.480
<v Speaker 2>It's yeah, as I kind of I've been asked before,

511
00:31:35.200 --> 00:31:38.519
<v Speaker 2>like because I've only come to raels twenty hours mobile

512
00:31:38.559 --> 00:31:41.319
<v Speaker 2>development before that, Like I've been asked like I did

513
00:31:41.319 --> 00:31:44.640
<v Speaker 2>I find reels to be some kind of like niche

514
00:31:44.680 --> 00:31:47.279
<v Speaker 2>framework or something that was in the past when I

515
00:31:47.400 --> 00:31:49.720
<v Speaker 2>got into it, And I'm like, no, I never thought

516
00:31:49.759 --> 00:31:51.920
<v Speaker 2>that for one second. I always thought of it as

517
00:31:51.960 --> 00:31:57.079
<v Speaker 2>a mature, solid piece of technology that just wasn't fashionable anymore.

518
00:31:57.839 --> 00:32:01.519
<v Speaker 2>And I'm fairly cynical enough to not give a shit

519
00:32:01.599 --> 00:32:06.119
<v Speaker 2>about the fashion aspect of teck like, I mean, you

520
00:32:06.160 --> 00:32:08.599
<v Speaker 2>have Angula, you have React. These things just go and

521
00:32:08.680 --> 00:32:11.920
<v Speaker 2>come in waves, and I'm like, just let me write

522
00:32:12.039 --> 00:32:15.680
<v Speaker 2>HTML and CSS like and groovy on the back end.

523
00:32:15.680 --> 00:32:20.119
<v Speaker 2>That's that generates HTML and CSS and I'm happy really

524
00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:21.400
<v Speaker 2>about anything else.

525
00:32:24.200 --> 00:32:29.799
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean it's hard to you know, it's hard

526
00:32:29.799 --> 00:32:33.200
<v Speaker 1>to sell somebody focused on front end like a framework

527
00:32:33.279 --> 00:32:38.200
<v Speaker 1>that they don't understand. Uh. And it's you know, likewise

528
00:32:38.240 --> 00:32:39.680
<v Speaker 1>the same way, right, Like I know a lot of

529
00:32:39.880 --> 00:32:42.319
<v Speaker 1>friend of people that are like, you know, very happy

530
00:32:42.400 --> 00:32:46.920
<v Speaker 1>with uh you know next JS or or something like that,

531
00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:52.640
<v Speaker 1>and they're very efficient in it and it makes them productive. Like, uh,

532
00:32:52.960 --> 00:32:56.240
<v Speaker 1>you know, why would they switch to rails and maybe

533
00:32:56.359 --> 00:32:58.480
<v Speaker 1>until they need like file upload or something.

534
00:32:58.799 --> 00:33:02.279
<v Speaker 3>Uh No, I don't know.

535
00:33:02.640 --> 00:33:04.720
<v Speaker 1>There are like some things in reels that do just

536
00:33:04.799 --> 00:33:08.200
<v Speaker 1>like they would just work and they make things very easy.

537
00:33:09.119 --> 00:33:11.880
<v Speaker 1>And so I feel like the more we can expose

538
00:33:12.160 --> 00:33:14.559
<v Speaker 1>like what those things are and how easy it is,

539
00:33:15.319 --> 00:33:17.720
<v Speaker 1>the more people will adapt to it.

540
00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:18.160
<v Speaker 3>For sure.

541
00:33:20.599 --> 00:33:27.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, completely, I mean, yeah, nothing to add about.

542
00:33:27.160 --> 00:33:33.519
<v Speaker 1>It's something I'm curious because you're kind of like all

543
00:33:33.559 --> 00:33:36.640
<v Speaker 1>over the place in the stack. What's something from reels

544
00:33:36.640 --> 00:33:40.160
<v Speaker 1>that you use that like you know, you've used another

545
00:33:40.240 --> 00:33:45.039
<v Speaker 1>frameworks that is just like unparalleled to using REELS.

546
00:33:44.759 --> 00:33:51.440
<v Speaker 2>With I don't know, it's hard to pick just one

547
00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:54.240
<v Speaker 2>because Rails is the only backend stack that I've ever used.

548
00:33:54.319 --> 00:33:56.519
<v Speaker 2>It's hard to kind of compare it to something else.

549
00:33:58.759 --> 00:34:05.400
<v Speaker 2>But like every thing you kind of need to build

550
00:34:05.440 --> 00:34:07.720
<v Speaker 2>a modern web app, it's kind of standardized in some

551
00:34:07.839 --> 00:34:10.840
<v Speaker 2>way or the other, like like when you look at

552
00:34:10.920 --> 00:34:13.400
<v Speaker 2>other stacks of some more anecdotal from when I go

553
00:34:13.559 --> 00:34:20.119
<v Speaker 2>speaking to two JavaScript people, it's uh that you kind

554
00:34:20.119 --> 00:34:26.239
<v Speaker 2>of need to pull in stuff plugins and things for

555
00:34:26.559 --> 00:34:28.719
<v Speaker 2>basic things like file upload, you need to go look

556
00:34:28.760 --> 00:34:32.000
<v Speaker 2>for a plugin for that. Authentication you gotta look go

557
00:34:32.119 --> 00:34:36.599
<v Speaker 2>look for a plugin for that, uh you uh yeah,

558
00:34:36.679 --> 00:34:40.400
<v Speaker 2>you basically need to build a stack that Rails gives

559
00:34:40.440 --> 00:34:44.000
<v Speaker 2>you already out of the box. Like if you're building

560
00:34:44.079 --> 00:34:47.000
<v Speaker 2>a web application, all the pieces you need are already

561
00:34:47.119 --> 00:34:51.039
<v Speaker 2>in Rails, which obviously makes it a bit of a behemoth,

562
00:34:51.519 --> 00:34:54.039
<v Speaker 2>and when you need something very simple, it's not the

563
00:34:54.119 --> 00:34:58.159
<v Speaker 2>right deal for the job for that reason. But for

564
00:34:58.280 --> 00:35:01.239
<v Speaker 2>most modern web applications, you do need all that and

565
00:35:01.360 --> 00:35:02.559
<v Speaker 2>Rail just gives it to you.

566
00:35:06.800 --> 00:35:12.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I agree there, I mean, it's it's a little

567
00:35:12.519 --> 00:35:16.039
<v Speaker 1>tricky because like, uh, I'm still trying to find the

568
00:35:16.119 --> 00:35:20.280
<v Speaker 1>right like front end magic right, like if I want to,

569
00:35:20.480 --> 00:35:25.480
<v Speaker 1>like I don't know, add some like ux flourishes using

570
00:35:25.519 --> 00:35:30.119
<v Speaker 1>some you know MPM package or something. There's like kind

571
00:35:30.119 --> 00:35:32.679
<v Speaker 1>of eight different ways to integrate.

572
00:35:32.199 --> 00:35:34.199
<v Speaker 3>That into the reels.

573
00:35:35.199 --> 00:35:37.199
<v Speaker 1>And so I mean I know that, like you know,

574
00:35:37.880 --> 00:35:40.840
<v Speaker 1>there there is some hope in the in the pipeline coming,

575
00:35:43.119 --> 00:35:46.039
<v Speaker 1>but it's still very much divided on how the best

576
00:35:46.079 --> 00:35:49.440
<v Speaker 1>approach is, Like the standard is kind of still not

577
00:35:49.760 --> 00:35:54.320
<v Speaker 1>firmed yet. I don't know what what's your impression there

578
00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:57.559
<v Speaker 1>on like you know, integrating front end components that are

579
00:35:57.599 --> 00:36:02.840
<v Speaker 1>external to the ecosystem.

580
00:36:01.679 --> 00:36:07.400
<v Speaker 2>It's a yeah, bitter kind of worms Like, so I

581
00:36:07.480 --> 00:36:11.239
<v Speaker 2>quite like view component the library. I know there was

582
00:36:11.280 --> 00:36:17.840
<v Speaker 2>some chatter to merge that with rails. The last time

583
00:36:17.880 --> 00:36:21.480
<v Speaker 2>I met Joel Hawksley, who's the leader of the project,

584
00:36:22.559 --> 00:36:26.280
<v Speaker 2>which was twenty twenty two summer twenty two at Brighton Ruby,

585
00:36:26.800 --> 00:36:31.519
<v Speaker 2>he still had ambitions of merging it into RAILS. So

586
00:36:33.360 --> 00:36:35.559
<v Speaker 2>that is one dependent Like I don't reach for a

587
00:36:35.599 --> 00:36:38.719
<v Speaker 2>lot of dependencies naturally for every app, a view component

588
00:36:38.920 --> 00:36:43.519
<v Speaker 2>is one of them. And I quite like that approach

589
00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:50.400
<v Speaker 2>because it again focuses on generating generating HTML on the server,

590
00:36:51.519 --> 00:36:54.719
<v Speaker 2>which is just like just the construct with which he

591
00:36:54.840 --> 00:36:58.800
<v Speaker 2>generated is like componentized and you send that down to

592
00:36:58.880 --> 00:37:03.639
<v Speaker 2>the browser and then if you need like JavaScript components,

593
00:37:04.199 --> 00:37:07.920
<v Speaker 2>I just used custom elements like they are absolutely amazing.

594
00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:11.800
<v Speaker 2>It blows my mind that they're not more widely used

595
00:37:11.880 --> 00:37:16.360
<v Speaker 2>than they are. They are just so so useful. Like

596
00:37:17.719 --> 00:37:20.039
<v Speaker 2>last year when I was helping out with the with

597
00:37:20.159 --> 00:37:24.119
<v Speaker 2>the Rails World conference website as mentoring the junior developer

598
00:37:24.119 --> 00:37:27.280
<v Speaker 2>who built it, and we needed to put like a

599
00:37:27.360 --> 00:37:30.840
<v Speaker 2>back to top button on the on the web page,

600
00:37:30.840 --> 00:37:32.840
<v Speaker 2>which kind of which appears only when you've kind of

601
00:37:32.840 --> 00:37:36.920
<v Speaker 2>scrolled down twice the height of the viewpot. And this

602
00:37:37.079 --> 00:37:39.800
<v Speaker 2>was a jackal app, So we didn't have a JavaScript

603
00:37:39.880 --> 00:37:42.119
<v Speaker 2>pipeline and I don't hate myself, which is why they

604
00:37:42.119 --> 00:37:44.760
<v Speaker 2>want to set one up, So we were limited to

605
00:37:44.960 --> 00:37:47.559
<v Speaker 2>basically vanilla javascripts are like my first instinct would have

606
00:37:47.639 --> 00:37:51.920
<v Speaker 2>been to reach for stimulus controller, but I didn't really

607
00:37:51.920 --> 00:37:55.719
<v Speaker 2>want to pull in javscript dependencies because we were writing

608
00:37:55.760 --> 00:38:00.039
<v Speaker 2>vanilla JavaScript without any kind of bundling or anything. So

609
00:38:00.079 --> 00:38:02.800
<v Speaker 2>I just showed her how to use a custom element

610
00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:06.000
<v Speaker 2>and it was just so elegant and so simple, and

611
00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:11.239
<v Speaker 2>it's just such a great solution to so many problems.

612
00:38:13.320 --> 00:38:16.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's funny you mentioned Joel Drapper.

613
00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:22.280
<v Speaker 2>Joel Hawksley, Joel Rappers. Joel Drapper is the Flex guy.

614
00:38:22.639 --> 00:38:25.639
<v Speaker 3>Right, flex guy. It made me think of the Flex guy.

615
00:38:26.159 --> 00:38:27.639
<v Speaker 2>Okay. Yeah, the book.

616
00:38:29.559 --> 00:38:32.119
<v Speaker 1>The v compone stuff that Joel Hawksley is working on

617
00:38:32.480 --> 00:38:36.719
<v Speaker 1>is really impressive. I mean, there's a there's always so

618
00:38:36.800 --> 00:38:40.159
<v Speaker 1>much like coming out there too, and and it it

619
00:38:40.239 --> 00:38:43.159
<v Speaker 1>makes me think of Joel Drapper, who is funny. They're

620
00:38:43.199 --> 00:38:48.639
<v Speaker 1>both Joel working on similar with the Flex repo. I

621
00:38:48.639 --> 00:38:50.239
<v Speaker 1>mean I just saw I've been.

622
00:38:50.079 --> 00:38:55.519
<v Speaker 3>Following the f L E c K S okay.

623
00:38:56.519 --> 00:39:01.039
<v Speaker 1>Which basically makes like a bi directional you know, data

624
00:39:01.079 --> 00:39:05.400
<v Speaker 1>coupled view component basically with Flex that you can like

625
00:39:05.519 --> 00:39:08.559
<v Speaker 1>serve asynchronously over web sockets to.

626
00:39:08.440 --> 00:39:09.599
<v Speaker 3>Like get updates.

627
00:39:10.119 --> 00:39:14.559
<v Speaker 1>Really cool stuff where you get kind of like the

628
00:39:14.679 --> 00:39:17.559
<v Speaker 1>data coupled back end to the front end in a

629
00:39:17.599 --> 00:39:18.480
<v Speaker 1>single component.

630
00:39:18.840 --> 00:39:23.320
<v Speaker 3>It's like really neat and to be honest, like the

631
00:39:23.360 --> 00:39:26.119
<v Speaker 3>whole Phoenix Live you like, which has been out a long.

632
00:39:25.960 --> 00:39:28.360
<v Speaker 2>Time, right, Yeah, yeah, you.

633
00:39:28.360 --> 00:39:30.559
<v Speaker 1>Know I've been waiting for something like that in reels

634
00:39:30.599 --> 00:39:34.840
<v Speaker 1>for the longest time because we're close with you know,

635
00:39:34.880 --> 00:39:36.920
<v Speaker 1>hot wire. I know that was like kind of supposed

636
00:39:36.920 --> 00:39:40.440
<v Speaker 1>to be the driver for that. It is still a

637
00:39:40.480 --> 00:39:42.880
<v Speaker 1>little bit clunky, I think with all the IDs and

638
00:39:43.599 --> 00:39:48.519
<v Speaker 1>trying to manage what streams to what and what what

639
00:39:48.599 --> 00:39:53.280
<v Speaker 1>file holds, what update right and what gets executed where

640
00:39:53.360 --> 00:39:54.880
<v Speaker 1>it's still a little bit hard to follow.

641
00:39:55.599 --> 00:39:59.159
<v Speaker 2>H Yeah, it is. I'm not used live, but live

642
00:39:59.199 --> 00:40:02.440
<v Speaker 2>y is obviously is a bit for one thing, and right,

643
00:40:03.199 --> 00:40:08.360
<v Speaker 2>stuff like action cable and the broadcast system within hot

644
00:40:08.360 --> 00:40:13.320
<v Speaker 2>wires just like a feature of a bigger thing. Yeah. Yeah,

645
00:40:13.320 --> 00:40:15.360
<v Speaker 2>I guess that's why it just felt it feels a

646
00:40:15.360 --> 00:40:18.039
<v Speaker 2>bit bolleted on because because it is it is.

647
00:40:18.159 --> 00:40:24.320
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, that's funny, but.

648
00:40:24.320 --> 00:40:28.480
<v Speaker 1>You know, I mean I'm hopeful, like it's a it's

649
00:40:28.519 --> 00:40:31.159
<v Speaker 1>funny that like you know, view component as an example,

650
00:40:31.280 --> 00:40:33.760
<v Speaker 1>hasn't like kind of made its way into the reel's

651
00:40:33.800 --> 00:40:39.760
<v Speaker 1>ecosystem with how with its longevity? Right? Uh? Yeah, obviously

652
00:40:39.840 --> 00:40:45.840
<v Speaker 1>there's some trepidation for a reason, right, Like it does

653
00:40:45.880 --> 00:40:48.719
<v Speaker 1>introduce kind of some you know DSL that you have

654
00:40:48.760 --> 00:40:52.800
<v Speaker 1>to be familiar with, and it's not quite as real as.

655
00:40:52.679 --> 00:40:55.000
<v Speaker 3>It it could be.

656
00:40:55.159 --> 00:40:56.840
<v Speaker 1>It's I guess it's more of the Ruby way than

657
00:40:56.840 --> 00:40:58.360
<v Speaker 1>the Reels way, which is kind of funny.

658
00:40:59.119 --> 00:41:02.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's that's very true. I don't know exactly what

659
00:41:03.000 --> 00:41:07.960
<v Speaker 2>the objections to getting it into reals were, but yeah,

660
00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:11.639
<v Speaker 2>that is probably likely. One of them is that it

661
00:41:11.800 --> 00:41:15.719
<v Speaker 2>just feels a bit different. I couldn't articulate exactly why.

662
00:41:16.320 --> 00:41:19.599
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

663
00:41:20.039 --> 00:41:23.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's funny because like I remember, you know, I

664
00:41:23.079 --> 00:41:25.119
<v Speaker 1>haven't done view components in a while, but the last

665
00:41:25.159 --> 00:41:27.880
<v Speaker 1>I did it was like great encapsulation. You know, you

666
00:41:27.880 --> 00:41:31.679
<v Speaker 1>could test the changes that get made to your component.

667
00:41:31.840 --> 00:41:36.320
<v Speaker 1>It's encapsulated perfectly, and you know, when you mutate the props,

668
00:41:36.800 --> 00:41:41.360
<v Speaker 1>the actual HTML that gets rendered gets changed in specific

669
00:41:41.400 --> 00:41:41.800
<v Speaker 1>ways and.

670
00:41:41.800 --> 00:41:43.559
<v Speaker 3>You don't have to worry about it. It's all Ruby.

671
00:41:44.119 --> 00:41:46.679
<v Speaker 3>I mean, there's a lot of appealing qualities of it.

672
00:41:48.320 --> 00:41:52.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I feel like it becomes the same like front

673
00:41:52.360 --> 00:41:54.840
<v Speaker 1>end issue of Okay, well how do you extend it?

674
00:41:54.920 --> 00:41:58.760
<v Speaker 1>How do you like add these custom components, our custom features,

675
00:41:58.800 --> 00:42:01.480
<v Speaker 1>and then you end up hied into the DSL of

676
00:42:01.519 --> 00:42:02.119
<v Speaker 1>the framework.

677
00:42:02.199 --> 00:42:05.000
<v Speaker 3>And because it's its own framework.

678
00:42:05.920 --> 00:42:09.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, like Flex kind of has the same issues there too, Right,

679
00:42:09.599 --> 00:42:12.639
<v Speaker 1>is that if he wanted to create your own you know,

680
00:42:13.159 --> 00:42:17.719
<v Speaker 1>element or something like that or component. It's not exactly

681
00:42:17.760 --> 00:42:20.239
<v Speaker 1>straightforward because you have to follow however, the framework has

682
00:42:20.239 --> 00:42:26.039
<v Speaker 1>it set up, and you know, all of these things

683
00:42:26.440 --> 00:42:30.559
<v Speaker 1>go against what most front end people do. So I

684
00:42:30.599 --> 00:42:35.119
<v Speaker 1>feel like the you know, the the rails and Ruby

685
00:42:35.320 --> 00:42:39.360
<v Speaker 1>like developer ecosystem that's full stack like slowly gets narrowed

686
00:42:39.400 --> 00:42:41.559
<v Speaker 1>in as you get to like the front end.

687
00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:44.519
<v Speaker 3>Like it's very like back. It's been back and heavy

688
00:42:44.519 --> 00:42:45.239
<v Speaker 3>for a long time.

689
00:42:45.400 --> 00:42:48.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's been shared like it's it's getting wider, right,

690
00:42:48.360 --> 00:42:51.960
<v Speaker 1>but like I feel like even still that like the

691
00:42:52.079 --> 00:42:55.320
<v Speaker 1>audience narrows quite a bit when you get like closer

692
00:42:55.360 --> 00:42:56.960
<v Speaker 1>to the front and side of things.

693
00:42:58.039 --> 00:43:00.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it does that. I don't know, maybe I'm a

694
00:43:01.199 --> 00:43:05.400
<v Speaker 2>bit old school. I don't really see a massive reason

695
00:43:05.480 --> 00:43:08.320
<v Speaker 2>for there to be this demarcation between front end and

696
00:43:08.400 --> 00:43:11.280
<v Speaker 2>back end. Like sure, you might be better at one

697
00:43:11.679 --> 00:43:14.400
<v Speaker 2>compared to the other, but I think if you're a

698
00:43:14.400 --> 00:43:17.719
<v Speaker 2>web developer, you should just be able to do everything.

699
00:43:20.400 --> 00:43:22.599
<v Speaker 3>Well, I think it comes in it.

700
00:43:23.559 --> 00:43:26.199
<v Speaker 1>I'm torn, right, Like I've been at a small organization

701
00:43:26.360 --> 00:43:30.000
<v Speaker 1>where having full stack people is you know, very beneficial,

702
00:43:30.039 --> 00:43:32.639
<v Speaker 1>and like when you have fewer people, it's just easier

703
00:43:32.639 --> 00:43:34.679
<v Speaker 1>to move faster if everybody kind of touches on all

704
00:43:34.679 --> 00:43:39.360
<v Speaker 1>the same things, but in a bigger organization too. It's

705
00:43:39.400 --> 00:43:43.079
<v Speaker 1>like kind of nice having people that just devote themselves

706
00:43:43.159 --> 00:43:47.280
<v Speaker 1>to like making sure front end components work smoothly, right,

707
00:43:47.440 --> 00:43:50.280
<v Speaker 1>or like once you get a design system in play,

708
00:43:51.239 --> 00:43:54.199
<v Speaker 1>making sure that all the components are uniform across all

709
00:43:54.239 --> 00:43:58.599
<v Speaker 1>of your applications and making sure that like things is

710
00:43:58.639 --> 00:44:01.039
<v Speaker 1>like it's a smooth experience for the user.

711
00:44:01.920 --> 00:44:02.119
<v Speaker 3>You know.

712
00:44:02.280 --> 00:44:05.880
<v Speaker 1>UX is like on its own is probably its own

713
00:44:06.719 --> 00:44:10.280
<v Speaker 1>you know field, and so like if you have a

714
00:44:10.320 --> 00:44:13.159
<v Speaker 1>team devoted to just UX, like the number of back

715
00:44:13.239 --> 00:44:14.880
<v Speaker 1>end things they'd have to work on is going to

716
00:44:14.920 --> 00:44:17.679
<v Speaker 1>get smaller and smaller as they start to you know,

717
00:44:18.599 --> 00:44:22.000
<v Speaker 1>work on more and more of that system that they're building,

718
00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:23.320
<v Speaker 1>to be honest, And.

719
00:44:23.400 --> 00:44:26.679
<v Speaker 3>So it's like it's a double edged sword really because

720
00:44:26.719 --> 00:44:28.000
<v Speaker 3>like maybe for like.

721
00:44:29.440 --> 00:44:32.480
<v Speaker 1>Maybe for most people working in rails, right, like you

722
00:44:32.599 --> 00:44:40.880
<v Speaker 1>want that full feature set in full stack mentality. Yeah,

723
00:44:41.159 --> 00:44:44.480
<v Speaker 1>as a larger entity, it's just like becomes less and

724
00:44:44.599 --> 00:44:48.760
<v Speaker 1>less attractive or desire, like your need for it starts

725
00:44:48.800 --> 00:44:53.360
<v Speaker 1>to thin out right after a certain thing. So I

726
00:44:53.360 --> 00:44:59.920
<v Speaker 1>don't know, it's the problem is like we need both, Like,

727
00:45:00.400 --> 00:45:02.880
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, the desire for specialists is like kind

728
00:45:02.920 --> 00:45:04.920
<v Speaker 1>of still important.

729
00:45:04.679 --> 00:45:06.079
<v Speaker 2>Right, Like yeah, yeah it is.

730
00:45:06.639 --> 00:45:09.000
<v Speaker 1>You're still going to need somebody to work specifically on

731
00:45:09.039 --> 00:45:11.440
<v Speaker 1>security at some point if you if that's part of

732
00:45:11.480 --> 00:45:15.320
<v Speaker 1>your core business, right and or if you have regulatory

733
00:45:16.119 --> 00:45:19.239
<v Speaker 1>aspects of your business, you know, you're going to have

734
00:45:19.440 --> 00:45:23.920
<v Speaker 1>these specialists that are in demand no matter what. Uh So,

735
00:45:24.119 --> 00:45:29.239
<v Speaker 1>I don't know the it's it's hard because like as

736
00:45:29.239 --> 00:45:33.000
<v Speaker 1>a perfect example of like security, right, like active record

737
00:45:33.119 --> 00:45:36.280
<v Speaker 1>encryption is like awesome, right, and they had, you know,

738
00:45:36.280 --> 00:45:39.360
<v Speaker 1>when they were first releasing that, you know, they had

739
00:45:39.480 --> 00:45:42.000
<v Speaker 1>like a third party auditor come in and make sure

740
00:45:42.119 --> 00:45:44.360
<v Speaker 1>that you know all of the encryption stuff because like

741
00:45:44.519 --> 00:45:47.679
<v Speaker 1>not nobody's worrying on encryption stuff specifically, you know, on

742
00:45:47.719 --> 00:45:49.840
<v Speaker 1>the real core team. I mean they're there are handful

743
00:45:49.840 --> 00:45:51.679
<v Speaker 1>of people that have knowledge of it, right yeah, but

744
00:45:51.719 --> 00:45:54.719
<v Speaker 1>they're not like working on the new algorithms, you know.

745
00:45:54.920 --> 00:46:01.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah that's problem there. I'd be worried if

746
00:46:01.440 --> 00:46:03.760
<v Speaker 2>they were working on the algorithms.

747
00:46:03.320 --> 00:46:12.360
<v Speaker 3>Right yeah, like what are they sneaking in? Right? Like yeah,

748
00:46:12.480 --> 00:46:13.280
<v Speaker 3>just reminds me of that.

749
00:46:13.440 --> 00:46:17.559
<v Speaker 1>Uh And guys Adam Gordon Bell, he has this great podcast,

750
00:46:17.639 --> 00:46:21.280
<v Speaker 1>the co reor cursive podcast. Uh, and he had somebody

751
00:46:21.440 --> 00:46:24.159
<v Speaker 1>They did this whole like dialogue like re enacting that

752
00:46:24.679 --> 00:46:29.239
<v Speaker 1>security incident recently that made it into the compiler kernels

753
00:46:30.559 --> 00:46:35.079
<v Speaker 1>from some like you know, Chinese co conspirator supposedly like

754
00:46:35.280 --> 00:46:37.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, they don't really know like too much of

755
00:46:38.039 --> 00:46:40.760
<v Speaker 1>the details, but just like you know, part of the

756
00:46:41.519 --> 00:46:44.719
<v Speaker 1>I forget was it the GNU compiler. It was some

757
00:46:44.719 --> 00:46:49.840
<v Speaker 1>something tangentially related to the assembly aspects of compiling where

758
00:46:49.880 --> 00:46:55.159
<v Speaker 1>they were able to get like uh you know, ah,

759
00:46:57.360 --> 00:47:03.039
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, some kind of like uh like mutation

760
00:47:03.239 --> 00:47:07.079
<v Speaker 1>to the our permutation to the compiling that like made

761
00:47:07.280 --> 00:47:11.559
<v Speaker 1>it like inject code like with anything that was compiled

762
00:47:11.599 --> 00:47:11.960
<v Speaker 1>with it.

763
00:47:12.559 --> 00:47:15.119
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and that spread like crazy.

764
00:47:16.039 --> 00:47:19.480
<v Speaker 1>It was just like a very interesting dialogue.

765
00:47:20.559 --> 00:47:21.559
<v Speaker 3>But it actually think of.

766
00:47:21.519 --> 00:47:23.960
<v Speaker 1>This stuff right, like you know what else is just

767
00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:27.920
<v Speaker 1>like in there? There's no I mean, you'd be selective

768
00:47:27.960 --> 00:47:33.320
<v Speaker 1>of your contributors, but I don't know that that's like

769
00:47:33.519 --> 00:47:37.639
<v Speaker 1>a long winded thing about you know, specialists really but

770
00:47:37.800 --> 00:47:39.599
<v Speaker 1>like you know, I don't think we should shy away

771
00:47:39.599 --> 00:47:43.119
<v Speaker 1>from them. And you know, the more we can keep

772
00:47:43.159 --> 00:47:47.320
<v Speaker 1>things modular and accessible, the better that the framework will be.

773
00:47:47.519 --> 00:47:53.760
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, I completely agree with all your points on specialists,

774
00:47:53.800 --> 00:47:57.239
<v Speaker 2>and it's absolutely a good thing when you have someone

775
00:47:57.280 --> 00:48:01.079
<v Speaker 2>who's gone really deep on like, yeah, one aspect of

776
00:48:01.119 --> 00:48:04.559
<v Speaker 2>maybe like front enda, backend or whatever. But I also

777
00:48:04.639 --> 00:48:09.599
<v Speaker 2>think that you shouldn't be completely unaware of the other thing.

778
00:48:09.599 --> 00:48:11.480
<v Speaker 2>Like if you're a front end specialist and you're like

779
00:48:11.920 --> 00:48:16.280
<v Speaker 2>is at that, it shouldn't mean that you're afraid to

780
00:48:16.320 --> 00:48:20.000
<v Speaker 2>create a model, a controller, a database, vibration that kind

781
00:48:20.039 --> 00:48:22.119
<v Speaker 2>of like, yeah, sure you may not be as good

782
00:48:22.360 --> 00:48:24.760
<v Speaker 2>at it as someone who specializes in the back end,

783
00:48:24.800 --> 00:48:28.400
<v Speaker 2>but I think you should be competent enough to be

784
00:48:28.519 --> 00:48:31.800
<v Speaker 2>able to do the basics.

785
00:48:33.280 --> 00:48:34.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I don't disagree with that.

786
00:48:35.599 --> 00:48:39.119
<v Speaker 1>I think having the tools and the framework that makes

787
00:48:39.119 --> 00:48:43.679
<v Speaker 1>that easier to do the better. Yeah, these generators are great,

788
00:48:44.079 --> 00:48:45.639
<v Speaker 1>I mean to be honest, I would like to see

789
00:48:45.679 --> 00:48:49.039
<v Speaker 1>some improvements there to the whole generator aspect of things

790
00:48:49.079 --> 00:48:52.239
<v Speaker 1>and customization. So I know you already can do, but

791
00:48:55.559 --> 00:48:58.599
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, it seems like not straightforward as a

792
00:48:58.599 --> 00:49:02.440
<v Speaker 1>first time user on like what you can generate, what's available,

793
00:49:02.599 --> 00:49:07.639
<v Speaker 1>like the you know that is definitely discoverability is definitely

794
00:49:07.679 --> 00:49:09.920
<v Speaker 1>still a problem within.

795
00:49:09.719 --> 00:49:12.559
<v Speaker 2>The yeah, yeah.

796
00:49:12.280 --> 00:49:14.119
<v Speaker 3>Which the guides are great.

797
00:49:14.159 --> 00:49:17.239
<v Speaker 1>I'm so happy to see all the documentation, you know,

798
00:49:17.280 --> 00:49:20.079
<v Speaker 1>getting the tender love and care that it needs.

799
00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:26.119
<v Speaker 3>But you know, it's still like discoverability problem.

800
00:49:25.800 --> 00:49:28.719
<v Speaker 1>Is uh, you know, even on the development side is

801
00:49:29.000 --> 00:49:30.960
<v Speaker 1>still an issue.

802
00:49:31.119 --> 00:49:32.760
<v Speaker 3>I don't know, what do you what do you point

803
00:49:32.800 --> 00:49:33.400
<v Speaker 3>people to that?

804
00:49:33.679 --> 00:49:36.480
<v Speaker 1>Like, let's say you're talking with somebody on the JavaScript

805
00:49:36.559 --> 00:49:39.559
<v Speaker 1>side and you're like trying to convince them, you know, hey,

806
00:49:39.719 --> 00:49:41.800
<v Speaker 1>like it's not so hard, Like what do you point

807
00:49:41.800 --> 00:49:42.119
<v Speaker 1>them at?

808
00:49:43.559 --> 00:49:45.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a good question. Off the top of my head,

809
00:49:45.800 --> 00:49:49.800
<v Speaker 2>I wouldn't know what to point them at it. I'd

810
00:49:49.840 --> 00:49:52.119
<v Speaker 2>probably look for a blog post, to be honest, I'd

811
00:49:52.119 --> 00:49:55.719
<v Speaker 2>probably look for a step by step tutorial and how

812
00:49:55.760 --> 00:49:59.880
<v Speaker 2>do you like create a model or whatever? Because the

813
00:50:00.039 --> 00:50:02.880
<v Speaker 2>Rails guys are very good, but they're also kind of

814
00:50:02.920 --> 00:50:06.320
<v Speaker 2>aimed at someone who's actually trying to like learn rails,

815
00:50:06.480 --> 00:50:08.559
<v Speaker 2>is familiar with with rails, which is fine because you

816
00:50:08.599 --> 00:50:11.039
<v Speaker 2>need you need to write for a set of target

817
00:50:11.039 --> 00:50:16.440
<v Speaker 2>audience otherwise nothing's ever going to make any sense. But yeah,

818
00:50:16.440 --> 00:50:18.360
<v Speaker 2>if I'm talking to someone who's like more front and

819
00:50:18.480 --> 00:50:22.480
<v Speaker 2>he doesn't really know much about rails, and unless they're

820
00:50:22.519 --> 00:50:25.599
<v Speaker 2>like keen to really get into Rails. The guides is

821
00:50:25.760 --> 00:50:29.159
<v Speaker 2>probably not where I would send them.

822
00:50:29.320 --> 00:50:33.960
<v Speaker 1>That makes it somebody should go create a Ruby toolbox

823
00:50:34.400 --> 00:50:38.880
<v Speaker 1>for Rail's tutorials, right, I feel like there's value, so

824
00:50:38.960 --> 00:50:40.000
<v Speaker 1>much value there.

825
00:50:40.079 --> 00:50:41.480
<v Speaker 2>I should just buy my book.

826
00:50:42.199 --> 00:50:49.400
<v Speaker 3>Or by go ahead, they still.

827
00:50:52.079 --> 00:50:54.480
<v Speaker 2>Rails are not good dot com going by it now.

828
00:50:58.480 --> 00:51:02.199
<v Speaker 1>Honestly, that book is so oppressively like large and like

829
00:51:02.800 --> 00:51:05.480
<v Speaker 1>covers all the topics you could possibly need, Like we

830
00:51:05.519 --> 00:51:08.760
<v Speaker 1>should be pumping it out there because like, honestly, if hey,

831
00:51:08.800 --> 00:51:11.559
<v Speaker 1>if you have questions about that hot wire framework, like

832
00:51:11.679 --> 00:51:15.440
<v Speaker 1>it's in there, in there.

833
00:51:15.960 --> 00:51:20.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, if it's not, you can email me right and

834
00:51:20.360 --> 00:51:24.800
<v Speaker 2>you can demand, like I demand that you're right about

835
00:51:24.840 --> 00:51:27.519
<v Speaker 2>this feature. I mean, I'll pay attention. I may not

836
00:51:27.559 --> 00:51:29.679
<v Speaker 2>pay any attention to your demand, but you can write

837
00:51:29.679 --> 00:51:30.280
<v Speaker 2>me if you want.

838
00:51:34.440 --> 00:51:41.679
<v Speaker 3>That's great. So what else do you feel like you're

839
00:51:41.679 --> 00:51:42.960
<v Speaker 3>missing out on in real's world?

840
00:51:45.360 --> 00:51:48.239
<v Speaker 2>I know? For me, I think conferences are just about networking.

841
00:51:49.840 --> 00:51:52.079
<v Speaker 2>I don't necessarily miss any of the talks because I

842
00:51:52.119 --> 00:51:55.559
<v Speaker 2>just catch up on YouTube afterwards. Most conferences these days

843
00:51:56.320 --> 00:51:59.239
<v Speaker 2>put the dogs on YouTube. The main reason I kind

844
00:51:59.239 --> 00:52:01.920
<v Speaker 2>of wish I was there the networking aspect, especially as

845
00:52:01.960 --> 00:52:07.960
<v Speaker 2>a freelancer, it's it's kind of key. But yeah, again,

846
00:52:08.119 --> 00:52:11.599
<v Speaker 2>as a freelancer getting over to Toronto and paying for

847
00:52:12.840 --> 00:52:15.039
<v Speaker 2>I think it was like five hundred dollars six hundred

848
00:52:15.079 --> 00:52:18.760
<v Speaker 2>dollar ticket on top of hotels and flights, it's just

849
00:52:18.880 --> 00:52:23.760
<v Speaker 2>like and then the opportunity cost of lost income because

850
00:52:23.760 --> 00:52:25.519
<v Speaker 2>if I go will be probably a week, and that's

851
00:52:25.519 --> 00:52:28.480
<v Speaker 2>one week of income lost. You're looking at when you

852
00:52:28.599 --> 00:52:32.000
<v Speaker 2>combine everything, you're probably looking at closer to like five

853
00:52:32.039 --> 00:52:36.039
<v Speaker 2>thousand dollars, And it's like, do I really want to

854
00:52:36.079 --> 00:52:39.239
<v Speaker 2>spend that much? Like I'm going, I'm going to New

855
00:52:39.320 --> 00:52:41.320
<v Speaker 2>Zealand for six weeks at the end of the year,

856
00:52:41.360 --> 00:52:45.199
<v Speaker 2>and I'm probably spending about six pounds for that entire

857
00:52:45.280 --> 00:52:48.119
<v Speaker 2>trip for six weeks.

858
00:52:48.840 --> 00:52:49.320
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

859
00:52:49.360 --> 00:52:52.320
<v Speaker 1>You know you're in the European region too, which has

860
00:52:52.400 --> 00:52:57.760
<v Speaker 1>so many great conferences. Yeah, yeah, I understand totally. I

861
00:52:57.840 --> 00:53:01.679
<v Speaker 1>actually have fomo myself about all those great conferences that

862
00:53:01.679 --> 00:53:04.039
<v Speaker 1>are there that just probably won't ever get to.

863
00:53:05.039 --> 00:53:07.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they're really gonna. I think that Devo shout out

864
00:53:07.760 --> 00:53:10.199
<v Speaker 2>to friendly that RB where I spoke last year, I

865
00:53:10.280 --> 00:53:12.440
<v Speaker 2>couldn't it was last week I couldn't go this year

866
00:53:12.480 --> 00:53:14.559
<v Speaker 2>just because the dates didn't work for me. I had

867
00:53:14.599 --> 00:53:18.079
<v Speaker 2>another trip planned, but if anyone's looking to get over

868
00:53:18.119 --> 00:53:21.559
<v Speaker 2>to Europe, that's probably one. And I'm speaking at Hagis

869
00:53:21.639 --> 00:53:23.760
<v Speaker 2>Ruby next month as well. That's the first year of

870
00:53:23.840 --> 00:53:28.320
<v Speaker 2>that conference in Edinburgh, so that should be fun because Olie,

871
00:53:28.320 --> 00:53:30.920
<v Speaker 2>who we had on this show, I think two or

872
00:53:30.960 --> 00:53:34.199
<v Speaker 2>three weeks ago, he's a speaker as well, So I'm

873
00:53:34.239 --> 00:53:38.159
<v Speaker 2>sure that'll be a good conference as well. Yeah, is

874
00:53:38.199 --> 00:53:41.280
<v Speaker 2>beautiful too, lovely city. I love going there.

875
00:53:41.800 --> 00:53:43.960
<v Speaker 3>Well, we've talked about so much here.

876
00:53:44.599 --> 00:53:47.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think we've covered everything that we know of

877
00:53:48.000 --> 00:53:49.159
<v Speaker 2>at this point.

878
00:53:50.679 --> 00:53:52.760
<v Speaker 1>That we're gonna have to have some follow up talks

879
00:53:52.800 --> 00:53:56.000
<v Speaker 1>with you know, some of the co creators here.

880
00:53:56.719 --> 00:53:59.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think we should have. I think we really

881
00:53:59.119 --> 00:54:04.440
<v Speaker 2>need to get Rosa on to talk about solid Q. Yeah,

882
00:54:04.440 --> 00:54:05.960
<v Speaker 2>and I think we should get someone I don't. I

883
00:54:05.960 --> 00:54:10.480
<v Speaker 2>think it's Donald who handles a lot of the Camal stuff.

884
00:54:10.480 --> 00:54:14.119
<v Speaker 2>Would love to get him on and chat comal with him.

885
00:54:14.440 --> 00:54:16.039
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

886
00:54:16.119 --> 00:54:17.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I got a couple of so.

887
00:54:17.599 --> 00:54:18.679
<v Speaker 3>Many great insights there.

888
00:54:19.119 --> 00:54:21.599
<v Speaker 1>You know what's coming out, you know, it's hard to

889
00:54:21.679 --> 00:54:24.920
<v Speaker 1>use it all, you know right away, So because yeah,

890
00:54:25.679 --> 00:54:27.119
<v Speaker 1>kind of how it all works and how you can

891
00:54:27.880 --> 00:54:28.880
<v Speaker 1>because I want to.

892
00:54:28.840 --> 00:54:33.920
<v Speaker 2>Know, Yeah, exactly, Like sometimes the best way is to

893
00:54:33.960 --> 00:54:36.159
<v Speaker 2>have like a couple of couple of idiots, like I

894
00:54:36.280 --> 00:54:41.119
<v Speaker 2>was just ask stupid questions, uh, to the expert, and

895
00:54:41.280 --> 00:54:46.119
<v Speaker 2>that's how like other people can also learn. So definitely, yeah,

896
00:54:46.199 --> 00:54:50.840
<v Speaker 2>we're getting them on all right.

897
00:54:50.840 --> 00:54:52.960
<v Speaker 1>Well, Uh, is there anything else you wanted to talk

898
00:54:52.960 --> 00:54:53.440
<v Speaker 1>about today?

899
00:54:53.480 --> 00:54:57.719
<v Speaker 2>Is no? I think that covers it awesome.

900
00:54:58.400 --> 00:55:01.559
<v Speaker 3>Uh, well let's moving to our picks.

901
00:55:01.840 --> 00:55:08.239
<v Speaker 2>All right, So yeah, I'll go first, So I'll do

902
00:55:08.880 --> 00:55:11.599
<v Speaker 2>a musical pick and a movie pic. I think I

903
00:55:11.679 --> 00:55:14.400
<v Speaker 2>don't have actually do a tech pic as well, so

904
00:55:14.480 --> 00:55:16.079
<v Speaker 2>I have a musical pick. I went to see a

905
00:55:16.119 --> 00:55:20.559
<v Speaker 2>band called Big Big Train on Tuesday, and they're like

906
00:55:21.000 --> 00:55:24.519
<v Speaker 2>an English progressive rock band. To me, they kind of

907
00:55:25.519 --> 00:55:28.719
<v Speaker 2>just embody England as a country. They're like the most

908
00:55:28.800 --> 00:55:31.800
<v Speaker 2>English band you could ever have. They sing about like

909
00:55:32.480 --> 00:55:36.679
<v Speaker 2>the history and the countryside and uh. They had one

910
00:55:36.719 --> 00:55:39.199
<v Speaker 2>album which is like about a little bit about space

911
00:55:39.280 --> 00:55:42.360
<v Speaker 2>exploration that a song called Apollo and Voyager and stuff.

912
00:55:42.760 --> 00:55:46.119
<v Speaker 2>So they're like very and their latest album has two

913
00:55:46.119 --> 00:55:49.760
<v Speaker 2>songs about cricket. So they're about as English a band

914
00:55:49.760 --> 00:55:57.199
<v Speaker 2>as you could possibly get. So I absolutely love them.

915
00:55:57.239 --> 00:56:00.000
<v Speaker 2>They're a great live band as well. I believe they're

916
00:56:00.039 --> 00:56:03.320
<v Speaker 2>over in America next year for a few shows in

917
00:56:03.360 --> 00:56:06.840
<v Speaker 2>the spring, so if live music is your thing, i'd

918
00:56:06.880 --> 00:56:11.840
<v Speaker 2>recommend checking them out. I recently saw a movie called

919
00:56:11.880 --> 00:56:17.079
<v Speaker 2>See How They Run, which I just loved it. It's

920
00:56:17.119 --> 00:56:22.880
<v Speaker 2>a twist on the Who Done It genre, so it's

921
00:56:22.960 --> 00:56:29.599
<v Speaker 2>kind of the events take place around a performance of

922
00:56:29.960 --> 00:56:33.400
<v Speaker 2>the play The Mousetrap, which itself is a good old

923
00:56:33.400 --> 00:56:36.400
<v Speaker 2>fashioned who Done It? Written by Gartha Christie, which has

924
00:56:36.400 --> 00:56:39.119
<v Speaker 2>been running here in London for something like seventy or

925
00:56:39.119 --> 00:56:42.840
<v Speaker 2>eighty years or something silly like that. So the events

926
00:56:42.880 --> 00:56:45.920
<v Speaker 2>of this movie take place around that performance, and it

927
00:56:46.000 --> 00:56:51.239
<v Speaker 2>is just such a self aware and self deprecating movie,

928
00:56:51.280 --> 00:56:57.159
<v Speaker 2>Like how Deadpool is self aware for superhero movies and

929
00:56:57.280 --> 00:56:59.320
<v Speaker 2>kind of makes fun of itself. I think See How

930
00:56:59.320 --> 00:57:02.840
<v Speaker 2>They Run is equally self aware to the hood on

931
00:57:02.920 --> 00:57:07.440
<v Speaker 2>a genre and equally makes fun of itself. And I

932
00:57:07.519 --> 00:57:11.199
<v Speaker 2>just love movies that I like that. It's like, we

933
00:57:11.280 --> 00:57:12.679
<v Speaker 2>know we're full of shit, and we're not going to

934
00:57:12.760 --> 00:57:17.559
<v Speaker 2>make any pretense that we're not full of shit. It's

935
00:57:17.599 --> 00:57:23.719
<v Speaker 2>some brilliant, brilliantly written So yeah, that's my movie pick,

936
00:57:23.920 --> 00:57:27.840
<v Speaker 2>and yesterday I was just looking for some applications that

937
00:57:28.000 --> 00:57:32.920
<v Speaker 2>would help me screen record and webcam record at the

938
00:57:32.960 --> 00:57:34.840
<v Speaker 2>same time to do like a screen cast or something

939
00:57:34.840 --> 00:57:37.360
<v Speaker 2>if I just want to send a demo of something

940
00:57:37.360 --> 00:57:40.639
<v Speaker 2>I'm doing to a friend. I couldn't find something that

941
00:57:40.800 --> 00:57:43.480
<v Speaker 2>was like cheap just that literally just did this one thing,

942
00:57:43.519 --> 00:57:46.599
<v Speaker 2>which is record my screen and the webcam and give

943
00:57:46.639 --> 00:57:48.920
<v Speaker 2>me a video file at the end. But then I

944
00:57:49.000 --> 00:57:52.559
<v Speaker 2>found this app called clean shot X or clean shot ten.

945
00:57:52.719 --> 00:57:55.239
<v Speaker 2>I don't know which one, but a cleanshot dot com.

946
00:57:55.239 --> 00:57:57.239
<v Speaker 2>I haven't bought it yet, but it looks exactly like

947
00:57:57.280 --> 00:58:00.800
<v Speaker 2>what I'm after. So if you if you're looking to

948
00:58:01.079 --> 00:58:04.519
<v Speaker 2>record screen casts, clean shot is probably a good way

949
00:58:04.519 --> 00:58:07.960
<v Speaker 2>to go if you're in a mact right, that's my picks.

950
00:58:09.199 --> 00:58:13.159
<v Speaker 3>Awesome, Yeah, I'll have to check these out. So I

951
00:58:13.199 --> 00:58:15.400
<v Speaker 3>have just a couple of picks. Here.

952
00:58:16.800 --> 00:58:20.519
<v Speaker 1>The Ruby AI Happy Hours happening again in New York City.

953
00:58:21.159 --> 00:58:24.039
<v Speaker 1>This time they're doing a demo night, so I'm excited

954
00:58:24.039 --> 00:58:26.920
<v Speaker 1>to go to that, actually giving a demo of a

955
00:58:27.000 --> 00:58:30.280
<v Speaker 1>project I started called podcast Buddy, which I hope to

956
00:58:30.320 --> 00:58:33.800
<v Speaker 1>have on the show soon. But a little AI companion

957
00:58:33.840 --> 00:58:38.599
<v Speaker 1>that can join and answer questions, drives the whole thing

958
00:58:38.719 --> 00:58:41.440
<v Speaker 1>and summarizes events and things.

959
00:58:42.400 --> 00:58:44.800
<v Speaker 3>So I'm pretty excited about demoing that.

960
00:58:45.079 --> 00:58:50.000
<v Speaker 1>And I was hoping to get a fully offline version

961
00:58:50.039 --> 00:58:54.360
<v Speaker 1>of it working. But the you know, the talk back

962
00:58:54.480 --> 00:58:57.519
<v Speaker 1>aspect of it is like very much just like a

963
00:58:57.599 --> 00:59:05.519
<v Speaker 1>speak command at this point to s x iMac. Otherwise

964
00:59:05.559 --> 00:59:09.559
<v Speaker 1>it's like servers involved, and uh, you know, it's way

965
00:59:09.599 --> 00:59:14.239
<v Speaker 1>too many dependencies to get the Texas speech working just right.

966
00:59:15.280 --> 00:59:19.199
<v Speaker 2>Simple is good. I like, I like simple yep.

967
00:59:19.239 --> 00:59:22.880
<v Speaker 1>So uh check it out podcast buddy. You can run

968
00:59:22.920 --> 00:59:26.079
<v Speaker 1>it just in the command line and it'll like transcribe

969
00:59:26.119 --> 00:59:27.719
<v Speaker 1>your conversation.

970
00:59:27.719 --> 00:59:28.800
<v Speaker 3>I use it for meetings too.

971
00:59:28.840 --> 00:59:33.679
<v Speaker 1>It's great fully offline transcription hirt CPP uh.

972
00:59:34.599 --> 00:59:36.599
<v Speaker 3>And uh. Next to that, I.

973
00:59:38.599 --> 00:59:42.239
<v Speaker 1>Was revisiting something, uh, one of our projects at Proximity

974
00:59:42.440 --> 00:59:47.480
<v Speaker 1>called simple Kick. It's a job orchestration for Sidekick, and

975
00:59:47.599 --> 00:59:51.320
<v Speaker 1>it's it's fantastic. It gives you like ways to run

976
00:59:51.679 --> 00:59:55.440
<v Speaker 1>jobs in parallel and orchestrate many things at once and

977
00:59:55.440 --> 00:59:58.880
<v Speaker 1>get callbacks when things are complete or if there's failures.

978
00:59:59.360 --> 00:59:59.599
<v Speaker 2>Uh.

979
00:59:59.719 --> 01:00:03.519
<v Speaker 3>It's super useful and I would definitely recommend checking that

980
01:00:03.559 --> 01:00:04.079
<v Speaker 3>out as well.

981
01:00:04.280 --> 01:00:05.159
<v Speaker 2>What's it called again?

982
01:00:05.760 --> 01:00:09.239
<v Speaker 3>Simple Kick? So simple and then k i.

983
01:00:09.239 --> 01:00:15.880
<v Speaker 2>Q okay, nice uh cool, and we build.

984
01:00:15.679 --> 01:00:22.280
<v Speaker 3>It around top of Sidekick itself and it does require Sidekick

985
01:00:22.320 --> 01:00:22.880
<v Speaker 3>Pro but.

986
01:00:24.679 --> 01:00:26.559
<v Speaker 2>Okay, yeah, I'm just looking at the read me now

987
01:00:26.559 --> 01:00:29.920
<v Speaker 2>because yea, I was going to say that my client,

988
01:00:30.159 --> 01:00:32.599
<v Speaker 2>we pay for Sidekick Enterprise, and we've got quite a

989
01:00:32.639 --> 01:00:36.280
<v Speaker 2>lot of complex stuff around batching and callbacks and stuff

990
01:00:36.320 --> 01:00:39.199
<v Speaker 2>like that. So I'll check this out. Maybe it can

991
01:00:39.239 --> 01:00:40.960
<v Speaker 2>make life easier in some way or the other.

992
01:00:41.519 --> 01:00:44.000
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, I mean I have a few things working

993
01:00:44.039 --> 01:00:46.519
<v Speaker 1>with this, and it just it does makes the whole

994
01:00:46.599 --> 01:00:54.480
<v Speaker 1>process just like so streamlined, nice, easy, a reason about.

995
01:00:56.800 --> 01:01:01.519
<v Speaker 1>I hope everybody out there is enjoying Rails World feed

996
01:01:01.599 --> 01:01:06.159
<v Speaker 1>as much as we are, and hopefully we can get

997
01:01:06.199 --> 01:01:09.239
<v Speaker 1>some of these, you know, some of these speakers lined

998
01:01:09.320 --> 01:01:12.000
<v Speaker 1>up here and dig in some more on the details

999
01:01:12.199 --> 01:01:12.760
<v Speaker 1>coming soon.

1000
01:01:13.639 --> 01:01:15.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, absolutely be great to get them on the show

1001
01:01:15.960 --> 01:01:17.639
<v Speaker 2>and pick their brains.

1002
01:01:18.159 --> 01:01:23.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah all right, Well until next time, folks, Valentino out.

1003
01:01:23.880 --> 01:01:25.880
<v Speaker 2>Yes, take care everyone,