Speaker 1: Well, welcome back to another episode of the Ruby Rooks Podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm one of your co hosts today, Valentino Soul, and
Speaker 1: I'm joined by Ayush Ayush, do you want to introduce yourself?
Speaker 2: Hello? Hello, I've been on the podcast while hopefully frequent
Speaker 2: listeners who would would know? But yeah, quick and Drawn
Speaker 2: the author of a book called The Reals and X.
Speaker 2: I'm on the Bridge Down Core team and I talk
Speaker 2: a lot of crap about Ruby.
Speaker 3: He just released another version of the book, didn't you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a minor up bit, just a whole bunch
Speaker 2: of continuity fixes that a very diligent reader sent me.
Speaker 1: The book is so huge, I just imagine a minor
Speaker 1: update is really like.
Speaker 3: A book in its own capacity.
Speaker 2: You can say that again, Like that's what That's what
Speaker 2: makes continuity so unbelievably hard, Like like some of the
Speaker 2: mistakes that this reader said, you know, like some a
Speaker 2: piece of code that I'd written that I kind of
Speaker 2: modify like three chapters later, but I'd forgotten to backboard
Speaker 2: the changes and staff.
Speaker 1: See, this is what I'm waiting AI to do. Right,
Speaker 1: It's just like all this nonsense work that has to happen.
Speaker 1: But like nobody really wants.
Speaker 3: To do it, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's why don't we have a reader bot and
Speaker 1: it's just like reads your book for you and it's.
Speaker 3: Like, okay, yeah, based on this latest stuff, you know
Speaker 3: you should update these things.
Speaker 2: Right that would that would be very useful. So we.
Speaker 1: Were talking before the show kind of like Reel's eight
Speaker 1: is on the way here. Everybody's at Reel's World and
Speaker 1: Aush and I are feeling major fomo right now. But
Speaker 1: we're just watching the stream come through of all these
Speaker 1: incredible updates that are just getting pushed out and released
Speaker 1: and nounce today. Some of them we already knew were coming, right,
Speaker 1: some of them we didn't. Do You want to like
Speaker 1: maybe mention your top highlights so far?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So, I mean all I'm looking at is the
Speaker 2: Twitter feed really because we don't have any YouTube streams
Speaker 2: as yet, although the keynote apparently will be up later today, which, honestly,
Speaker 2: Ruby on Rails Foundation is bloody amazing turn around time
Speaker 2: have it at on the same day, but yes, a
Speaker 2: Rails eight. The highlights are authentication prop shaft, the Solid
Speaker 2: Trifecta which is solid cash, solid que solid cable thruster,
Speaker 2: and come all to which the thing that I don't know,
Speaker 2: maybe I haven't a minority of The thing out of
Speaker 2: follow that that I find least interesting is authentication because
Speaker 2: I've always just built my own. I've never been a
Speaker 2: fan of devisor and thing like that. I just bet
Speaker 2: my own, So I don't really care that Reels kind
Speaker 2: of has it because I'll still just use the one
Speaker 2: I made myself.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's fair. You always prefer your own tools in
Speaker 3: the end.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my ego is too big to let me use
Speaker 2: anything else.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm with you.
Speaker 1: I feel like I've seen, you know, we've all kind
Speaker 1: of like been preparing for this. I guess Solid Trifecta
Speaker 1: that they're calling it now, But yeah, I mean it
Speaker 1: definitely makes makes me happy to see, you know more
Speaker 1: and more not have to get set up when you
Speaker 1: first start up a new app. There's nothing worse than
Speaker 1: configuring something when you just want to get going.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, completely, And I think just being able to
Speaker 2: drop the reddest dependency is something that's quite big. And
Speaker 2: I'm also for like small indie apps. I think having
Speaker 2: the three solid libraries along with all the move to
Speaker 2: its sequel Light is just gonna reduce the amantic complexity
Speaker 2: pretty significantly because you don't need a database ever anymore either,
Speaker 2: and you just like you have one sequel Light database
Speaker 2: for your actual database, you have another one pay cash,
Speaker 2: you have another one pick you, and it's just like
Speaker 2: just creating files. It's not that hard, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you know, the last leg of this
Speaker 1: is like wrapping everything in web assembly, so you could
Speaker 1: just deploy to you know, anywhere, Yeah, which I don't
Speaker 1: know that will happen in our near term. But you
Speaker 1: know what, one thing I noticed from the feed, I
Speaker 1: was curious what you thought about. It's kind of what's
Speaker 1: coming in Reel's eight point one, which are like the
Speaker 1: three bigger features that I feel like have been missing
Speaker 1: from Reel's lot, which is the action notifier, the search,
Speaker 1: and house MD, which I thought was funny as a
Speaker 1: markdown editor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that name. So yeah, they announced house
Speaker 2: MD a while ago, and it's something I've kind of
Speaker 2: been keeping my eye on. But I have a little
Speaker 2: bit of scout issue here with tricks because it's a
Speaker 2: fairly fiddly edited to years. You can't extend it much.
Speaker 2: They don't maybe recently their stance and it has changed,
Speaker 2: but they didn't seem particularly involved in trying to improve
Speaker 2: it or even like have community involvement. Like I remember
Speaker 2: I created a pull request a literally added an undocumented
Speaker 2: event to the read me, and I think that pull
Speaker 2: request remained open up until two or three years later on.
Speaker 2: It's literally just literally two lines that read me. So
Speaker 2: and I know other people who've kind of tried to
Speaker 2: improve or stuff like that and just not really had
Speaker 2: much success working with the maintainers. So yeah, house MD,
Speaker 2: I'm just tempering my expectations a little bit because, yeah,
Speaker 2: just I think they've obviously built what works for them,
Speaker 2: which is not always going to work for everyone else's
Speaker 2: use case. And I'd like the community to be able
Speaker 2: to improve it and just make it better. But whether
Speaker 2: that's going to be viable, we'll find out. But the
Speaker 2: other thing that you.
Speaker 3: Bring up a great point.
Speaker 1: That's actually one thing I've been a little bit concerned
Speaker 1: about with Rails in that, like it's a lot of
Speaker 1: you know, as things grow and get you know, some
Speaker 1: solid foundation framework wise, like the need for reducing bloat
Speaker 1: becomes ever greater, especially as the number of maintainers doesn't
Speaker 1: really you know, increase too much in proportionality at least,
Speaker 1: so I didn't worry, like, right, like I've noticed not
Speaker 1: just with tricks, but other you know, pieces of the framework,
Speaker 1: very similar feedback, right, Like it's very long churn process
Speaker 1: for changes that really don't affect anything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, honest.
Speaker 1: And so I you know, hopefully you know, with the
Speaker 1: Rails Foundation and everything like that that is on the radar,
Speaker 1: make sure that the maintainership at least stays up to
Speaker 1: date with the progress of the rest of the framework.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you'd hope so. But like I've read the
Speaker 2: kind of remit of the Rails Foundation and open source
Speaker 2: isn't really one of those things Like I see a
Speaker 2: lot on social media, but why can't the Rails Foundation
Speaker 2: fund the best gem at that GEMA this maintainer And
Speaker 2: I'm like, that's not They never claimed that they would
Speaker 2: be doing any of that. Like if you read the
Speaker 2: initial announcement that like open sauce doesn't feature really in
Speaker 2: their mission or whatever you want to call it, like
Speaker 2: they want to. They'll like they'll focus on like improving documentation,
Speaker 2: which is something that's happening. Yes, yeah, funding open Sauce
Speaker 2: is not one of the things they do. And we're
Speaker 2: right or wrong. It's not something they've ever claim to do, so.
Speaker 1: I don't think, yeah, I mean, I don't know that
Speaker 1: they have to throw funding at it. More just like
Speaker 1: organizational like, hey, like we have this increase in the
Speaker 1: code base, and you know, we need maintainers like the
Speaker 1: organizational stuff. I feel like that's that's where I was
Speaker 1: hoping that add to right is that you know, cases
Speaker 1: like this where you know, we we have like only
Speaker 1: so many limited contributors that have like you know, approval
Speaker 1: access to just merge something right, which is good, you know,
Speaker 1: both good and bad, but it's like definitely adds a bottleneck.
Speaker 1: And so I would like to see something where like
Speaker 1: I don't know, people can vote people into contributorship, right,
Speaker 1: Like where we can create a pipeline that just like
Speaker 1: makes this process easier, because like, to be honest, like
Speaker 1: somebody going through and just like approving a bunch of
Speaker 1: the documentation stuff like that would be a huge help,
Speaker 1: you know, And I know that I know that's somebody's
Speaker 1: probably already like working on that, but like every one
Speaker 1: of the reels repos like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I think that's where there's a little bit
Speaker 2: of uh mismanagement. I think is because so the Rails
Speaker 2: core team is really good and they have a really
Speaker 2: defined structure like core committees and the issues team, and
Speaker 2: with Rails, they are always on it, like I've always
Speaker 2: got responses to anyprs pretty quickly in rails. But then
Speaker 2: there's some stuff that's in rails that kind of sits
Speaker 2: in this gray area which is kind of in rails
Speaker 2: but not, which is like all the hot wire libraries are.
Speaker 2: They're in rails, but they're kind of not because they're
Speaker 2: owned by Petty seven Signals. Tricks is another one, because
Speaker 2: they had Tricks is action text is in raels, but
Speaker 2: Tricks is in like base camps organizations. It's like Petty
Speaker 2: seven Signals or whatever. It's like, yeah, there are certain
Speaker 2: things that sit in this weird gray area. We're just
Speaker 2: kind of in rails but kind of not. And I
Speaker 2: think that's where all the problems are happening.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I got to hand it to Shopify.
Speaker 1: They seem to have like at least solved that issue
Speaker 1: with Ruby itself right like they had their own fork
Speaker 1: of Ruby for a while, like handling all of this
Speaker 1: stuff that they've been upstreaming over the years for like
Speaker 1: copy on right and things like that, and I feel like,
Speaker 1: you know, they have had lots of you know, repos
Speaker 1: that were basically versions of that that they made their
Speaker 1: way into the official right like realm so as possible, right,
Speaker 1: Like thirty seven Singles is just another company.
Speaker 2: Right, Like yep, I don't think it possible. We'll just Yeah,
Speaker 2: it is a bit of frustration with I know people
Speaker 2: who've contributed to hot Wire, especially at Marco. Roth gave
Speaker 2: a great talk at a few conferences just about obviously
Speaker 2: all the good stuff in Hotwire, but some of his
Speaker 2: frustrations as well, and a lot of that was organizational.
Speaker 2: So we'll just have to see how this stuff evolves.
Speaker 2: And it's just my personal frustration is that like some
Speaker 2: of these things are in rails as defaults electrics and stuff,
Speaker 2: but they aren't in control of the rail score team.
Speaker 2: So that just creates a little bit of mismanagement, I think.
Speaker 2: But we'll see what happens.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The other two things that you mentioned for Rails eight
Speaker 2: point one are things that I'm very much looking forward tore.
Speaker 2: Like active record search is something that I think is
Speaker 2: gonna really simplify matter.
Speaker 1: That is, like the funniest thing, right, because like the
Speaker 1: whole Rails, like you know, Hype started off of a blog,
Speaker 1: which is like search is like kind of something you
Speaker 1: add to a blog, right, as like one.
Speaker 3: Of your primary features.
Speaker 1: Honestly, it's what you had almost any any site that
Speaker 1: you make with reels. So yeah, I mean it's super
Speaker 1: I'm super excited about that. I hope it's I mean,
Speaker 1: if it's anything like all the other reels you know, interfaces,
Speaker 1: it should be very straightforward. Are you hoping that it
Speaker 1: aligns with any particular you know, search gem that you've
Speaker 1: used in the past.
Speaker 2: No, not really so. I for my book, I wrote
Speaker 2: an entire chapter on search, and that's why. Actually I'm
Speaker 2: quite happy that it's not built into Rails, And I
Speaker 2: didn't really use a GEM. I just used the full
Speaker 2: tech search and trigram search features in Postgress and then
Speaker 2: hand wrote ERL queries. It was a lot of this
Speaker 2: is academic because once you teach a read up how
Speaker 2: to do those things and then you could your level
Speaker 2: of understanding just goes way up. So I'm not really
Speaker 2: concerned about whether it aligns at a certain gem or not.
Speaker 2: The main thing is I just hope it has support
Speaker 2: for full tech search and trigram search because they are strategies.
Speaker 2: Is there full tech search and sequel light, Yes, there is.
Speaker 1: Oh nice, Yeah, I feel like that's something that you know,
Speaker 1: once you realize this there, you're like, why do I
Speaker 1: need other things?
Speaker 3: You know, I mean, until you start using it heavily, but.
Speaker 1: Expose a text column like to search on, it's like
Speaker 1: pretty good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I think again, for the vast majority of
Speaker 2: use cases, just your database, a search is probably good enough.
Speaker 2: Like I can only speak to postcress because I'm not
Speaker 2: used the full tech search in other databases. But it's
Speaker 2: actually really good. It's only when you want to start
Speaker 2: like go going quite advances when you need to reach
Speaker 2: for something like elastic search. Like for the client I'm
Speaker 2: working with at the moment is it's kind of like
Speaker 2: a AI powered search engine for people and companies, kind
Speaker 2: of like a directory of people and companies. And we've
Speaker 2: used elastic search for that because literally the core offering
Speaker 2: is a search engine, so we need something quite bpy.
Speaker 2: But that like that was probably one of the very
Speaker 2: few exceptions when I would go reaching for something like
Speaker 2: elastic search. Is when your core offering is literally search.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree with you there.
Speaker 1: I mean I feel like, you know, most apps are
Speaker 1: like business related, like where you'll have a CRM or
Speaker 1: like some classic uh you know solution that you're just
Speaker 1: trying to solve with like your custom data or things
Speaker 1: like that, and that you know, having a just quick
Speaker 1: full text search or and any deep you know, I imagine
Speaker 1: what active search will become. It will just be so great,
Speaker 1: like just just hook it up to a model or
Speaker 1: you know whatever it may be, like a series of models, like.
Speaker 3: I can see it being pretty huge.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it would really simplify matters. And yeah,
Speaker 2: I think it's one of those things that's been a
Speaker 2: bit of a long time coming. But I'm glad it's
Speaker 2: it's it's it's on its way now. And yeah, Action
Speaker 2: notifier is another one, but it's gonna be cool because
Speaker 2: push notifications of just fiddley. That's it's just the nature
Speaker 2: of them. It is that they are just fiddley. And
Speaker 2: if I, if I understanding of what the framework is
Speaker 2: is correct, then it's it's going to handle sending notifications
Speaker 2: to web iOS and Android, so you don't need to
Speaker 2: worry about any of that on your own. Obviously, the
Speaker 2: web stuff is what kind of interests me the most,
Speaker 2: because going forward me personally, my focus is going to
Speaker 2: be completely on PWA's I'm leaving the native stuff behind.
Speaker 2: Even that the second edition of my book is not
Speaker 2: going to have any native stuff, I'm going to remove
Speaker 2: it all in favor of p w A's. So web
Speaker 2: push is something that I need to explain how you
Speaker 2: can do it now in rails, but action notifi would
Speaker 2: just make it easier.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I hope they borrow from Chris Oliver's notice.
Speaker 1: Jim, I've used that in the past and it's like
Speaker 1: very straightforward.
Speaker 3: And you know, doable.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's a It is a very easy to
Speaker 2: use interface. I did. I did take a lot inspiration
Speaker 2: from it. Whenever I have built kind of notifications in apps,
Speaker 2: I'm not reached for that library myself necessarily. Again, I
Speaker 2: don't really like reaching for dependencies. I prefer building stuff
Speaker 2: myself because I don't know just wired that way. But
Speaker 2: it is a very solid library and I kind of
Speaker 2: look to it for inspiration.
Speaker 1: It does it does add to the list of gems
Speaker 1: that people will have to migrate away from, like yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: That's it's kind of it's true. It's it's kind of like, uh,
Speaker 2: just the way rails goes, right, Eventually stuff ends up
Speaker 2: in the platform and then like because ye yet Carrier
Speaker 2: Wave and paper clip for number of years and active
Speaker 2: stories became a thing and then everyone out of my grade. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's just the way it goes. But I think I'm
Speaker 2: more looking forward to Rael's eight point one than eight really,
Speaker 2: because yeah, while I was, I think I honestly should
Speaker 2: put something in a swage or every time I mentioned
Speaker 2: my book on this on this podcast.
Speaker 4: But it's a great one, by the way, check it
Speaker 4: out dot com, buy it.
Speaker 2: But I had a like a second edition planned right
Speaker 2: for everything new, and that's going to be like a
Speaker 2: paid upgrade. But looking at everything that's come out, I
Speaker 2: think I'm not actually wait for Reels eight point one
Speaker 2: because then I can cover active rack as search and
Speaker 2: action notifier, which are like key parts of any web application.
Speaker 2: And since I'm kind of standardizing around PWA's, it makes
Speaker 2: sense to wait for action notifier because I don't want
Speaker 2: to build my own system, which is I know going
Speaker 2: to be outdated very soon.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: On the topic of books, I saw Obi Fernandez posting
Speaker 1: an update to the rails way now the Rails eight way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Reels eight way. I saw that.
Speaker 1: I'm excited to be honest, I'll probably learn all the
Speaker 1: new Reels eight features.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that, you know that book's going to
Speaker 2: be solid. It is going to be it's gonna be good.
Speaker 2: Quite a lot of good stuff coming down the pipeline.
Speaker 2: What are your feelings on Camal? Have you used it?
Speaker 2: Do you have any opinions on it?
Speaker 1: I'm interesting, comeal, I'm kind of waiting for it to
Speaker 1: just like mature a little more, you know, all all
Speaker 1: the like you know, the transitions of traffic as an example, yea,
Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of like shifting sands still
Speaker 1: and just from like I don't personally use it every day,
Speaker 1: so like, just from what I see, it seems to
Speaker 1: be like a lot of the infrastructure is changing around
Speaker 1: as they start to learn more and more the edge
Speaker 1: cases and configuration options and things like that. So I
Speaker 1: do have a couple of, like, you know, Doku apps
Speaker 1: that I would like to migrate eventually, but I'll probably
Speaker 1: wait till next year, to be honest, just to like
Speaker 1: let real Z eight like settle and have everything more firmed.
Speaker 2: Up fair enough, that's a good way to go about it.
Speaker 2: I've kind of just been watching from afar as well
Speaker 2: with Comal, largely because it's DOCA based and I I
Speaker 2: don't understand DOCCA well enough to not be afraid of
Speaker 2: it as yet. So so yeah, it's probably just one
Speaker 2: of those things I need to look at at some point.
Speaker 2: But like, my one frustration with Docker and we even
Speaker 2: Camal in general is that it adds this additional moving
Speaker 2: part of a Docker registry. Like if all I've got
Speaker 2: is a very simple indie app that runs on one box,
Speaker 2: I don't want to deal with Excuse me, I don't
Speaker 2: want to have to deal with the additional complexity of
Speaker 2: pushing to a Docker registry and then my server pulling
Speaker 2: from there. Like it's just me working on it, just
Speaker 2: by myself, running it on one box, Like why can't
Speaker 2: I build the Docker container locally and then just push
Speaker 2: that up to the server.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you make a great point, like why have docer
Speaker 1: if you have one server?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great point as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I feel like it it's definitely like
Speaker 1: a foundational choice, right, Like I think of it as
Speaker 1: like legos, right, like where you have like you know,
Speaker 1: if you just build legos on a table, like yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's fine. But you have like a sheet where
Speaker 1: you're like sticking the legos to to build your you
Speaker 1: know thing, it's a lot easier to build it as
Speaker 1: it doesn't move around. And I don't know, I feel
Speaker 1: like it's kind of like that as it's like laying
Speaker 1: the foundation for you to add more stuff that you
Speaker 1: know eventually you're gonna need to add it.
Speaker 3: Y you know, I feel like the probability.
Speaker 1: Of not extending what you have if you actually make
Speaker 1: something that you know you use every day, it's like
Speaker 1: very low chance that you're not just going to add
Speaker 1: something new to your stack. And so I like that
Speaker 1: it's there, right, Like it just it is like the
Speaker 1: modular framework for that aspect of things. But at the
Speaker 1: same time, ye know, docer development is like it definitely
Speaker 1: slows you down, Like there are educases that you can't
Speaker 1: even imagine from using platforms, right. Cross platform use of
Speaker 1: like a single interface is like it never works out
Speaker 1: like smoothly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's at some point I want to
Speaker 2: do it just a little deep dive personally into what
Speaker 2: it takes to just deploy a reels app to a
Speaker 2: Linux box with something like Caddy in front of it,
Speaker 2: and just see what if there's a way to kind
Speaker 2: of simplify that without Docker. Yeah, because I just don't
Speaker 2: need docer. But the one big advantage of something like Camal,
Speaker 2: I think, is if you want to sell like a
Speaker 2: one style product that like a web app that you
Speaker 2: just do a one off sale for. I've been thinking
Speaker 2: about this for like months before Once was even a thing.
Speaker 2: This kind of idea was in my mind. There is
Speaker 2: absolutely no sane way to distribute a web app without DOCA.
Speaker 2: It's just this rabbit bol of complexity. Like it just
Speaker 2: gets you telling a customer to kind of do too much.
Speaker 2: Like if I was selling a Rails app like that
Speaker 2: that was a one off sale and without docrizing it,
Speaker 2: I would basically be selling only to other people that
Speaker 2: new Rails. No one else would go anywhere near that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker 1: I mean distribution of an application that's bumbled up, like
Speaker 1: if you're not like creating an executable or something.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, like how do you do that?
Speaker 2: I do?
Speaker 3: Like we had Andy on.
Speaker 1: About the Glimmer project, right, and I did, Like I
Speaker 1: like that kind of idea of like literally packaging something
Speaker 1: up as like a binary and like that's how.
Speaker 3: You I mean, because that's a great way to shift things, right.
Speaker 1: It's like okay that those cross platform like distribution is
Speaker 1: like already established and pretty straightforward, and Glimmer is one
Speaker 1: of those frameworks that makes that process easy, right, and
Speaker 1: like the whole like uh you know, Dragon Ruby Toolkit
Speaker 1: for game distribution. I feel like all that's really missing
Speaker 1: and I know that like Andy was mentioning that he's
Speaker 1: trying to work on that uh you know, front end
Speaker 1: aspect of the Glimmer project. But yeah, that's what's missing
Speaker 1: is kind of like the web site of that distribution
Speaker 1: where we have like the browsers now, which I think
Speaker 1: the you know, I thought the goal of the browser
Speaker 1: was to be that distribution platform. But it's like the
Speaker 1: competition between the browsers has just like stifled progress like
Speaker 1: so much.
Speaker 3: Like it's kind of remarkable. People are just like okay.
Speaker 1: With that, like yeah, we're just gonna like, you know,
Speaker 1: no no problem, Like all these browsers are competing, so
Speaker 1: like we're just not gonna have a distribution platform for
Speaker 1: you know, web. Yeah, it's crazy to me like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I was hopeful with like Travel Ruby
Speaker 1: or something like that that we'd see maybe something a
Speaker 1: little a little more progress, but uh, I guess it's
Speaker 1: hard to sell that, right, Like you, if your end
Speaker 1: users are all distributed, how do you how do you
Speaker 1: deliver the best thing?
Speaker 2: Right? Yeah, it's it's no simple problem. If it was simpler,
Speaker 2: it would have probably been solved by now.
Speaker 1: Although that does bring me to another announcement with the
Speaker 1: Turbo what is.
Speaker 2: It hot Wire Native Native?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, because we did. We had a I'm blanking
Speaker 3: on his name now, yeah, Joe. We had Joe on
Speaker 3: before a few.
Speaker 1: Times, I think, Okay, they were he was talking about
Speaker 1: Turbo Native and the progress that he was making there
Speaker 1: and apparently has been collaborating right with thirty seven Signals. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it happened, which is really exciting because I know the
Speaker 1: last time I was messing around with that, it's like
Speaker 1: pretty decent. I mean, they're still like he's still got
Speaker 1: to write some objective CY or not objective C but
Speaker 1: like Swift yeah, and Android like it's small and amunt
Speaker 1: of code.
Speaker 2: Now, yeah, it's happy, but I think it's it's the
Speaker 2: right approach that you still have you have an excert
Speaker 2: project on andro Studio project, your code based still separate.
Speaker 2: I think that's a very good approach and I I
Speaker 2: spoke at length about this at a couple of conferences
Speaker 2: last year, as if you look up building Turbo native
Speaker 2: apps with my name, you'll find my talk at Friendly
Speaker 2: RB last year about this, and I completely agree is
Speaker 2: the right approach, and honestly like what they've done. It
Speaker 2: just seems more like a rebrand, and I think it
Speaker 2: is a rebrand for the better because having Turbo Native
Speaker 2: and Strata is separate things, it was just a little
Speaker 2: bit confusing, and they've just unified those under this hot
Speaker 2: Wire Native umbrella now, so it's one thing, like both
Speaker 2: the native kind of worlds are just one thing, and
Speaker 2: the documentation is a lot better, which I believe Joe
Speaker 2: helped out with. And the other thing was I think
Speaker 2: Joe also built a library called Turbo Navigator, which so
Speaker 2: a lot of like the native navigation stuff on iOS
Speaker 2: you have to build on your own, but an Android
Speaker 2: it's kind of part of the platform. So Joe the
Speaker 2: slave recal Turbo Navigator, which kind of brought the same
Speaker 2: ergonomics to iOS as well, which now I believe is
Speaker 2: part of hot Wire Native that does simplify life on
Speaker 2: iOS as well. So yeah, it's all all this very
Speaker 2: good stuff stuff I'll personally remain quite blissfully ignorant of though,
Speaker 2: because I've just had I've had enough of Native in
Speaker 2: my life. I don't want anymore.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's it's gonna be hard to stay away
Speaker 1: from it with all this Apple Intelligence stuff now even
Speaker 1: increasing the hype, and I imagine you know there's a
Speaker 1: Google version of that out there too, you know, drawing
Speaker 1: more and more people to their mobile devices.
Speaker 2: Yeah, quite possibly, But yeah, I don't know. I think
Speaker 2: PW is I hope just it just it just needs
Speaker 2: better marketing, I think. And it also needs, uh like
Speaker 2: the the big tech companies to kind of come on
Speaker 2: board with it, which is the harder part. Like what
Speaker 2: I would really like to see is the ability to
Speaker 2: put a button on a website that says installed to
Speaker 2: home screen, and you tap it and it just does it.
Speaker 2: Because like now, the best solution you can have is
Speaker 2: you can have that button and you can have instructions
Speaker 2: on what to do, which is usually a click a
Speaker 2: share button in an at home screen or whatever. You
Speaker 2: can't automate that. There is no API to do that.
Speaker 2: But you can see why Apple and Android don't want
Speaker 2: to do that.
Speaker 3: Why we don't have to get into it.
Speaker 2: Something to do with green paper.
Speaker 1: I will say, Like, just taking a step back to
Speaker 1: the conference again, Reels World, I mean it is packed.
Speaker 1: You see the audience and a lot of these photos
Speaker 1: and it's kind of exciting to see, you know, people
Speaker 1: all over the world coming together making this stuff happen,
Speaker 1: the ship and stuff. It's you know, there's no way
Speaker 1: reels can be dead with that crowd.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, real reels is just not the fashionable thing anymore.
Speaker 2: It's yeah, as I kind of I've been asked before,
Speaker 2: like because I've only come to raels twenty hours mobile
Speaker 2: development before that, Like I've been asked like I did
Speaker 2: I find reels to be some kind of like niche
Speaker 2: framework or something that was in the past when I
Speaker 2: got into it, And I'm like, no, I never thought
Speaker 2: that for one second. I always thought of it as
Speaker 2: a mature, solid piece of technology that just wasn't fashionable anymore.
Speaker 2: And I'm fairly cynical enough to not give a shit
Speaker 2: about the fashion aspect of teck like, I mean, you
Speaker 2: have Angula, you have React. These things just go and
Speaker 2: come in waves, and I'm like, just let me write
Speaker 2: HTML and CSS like and groovy on the back end.
Speaker 2: That's that generates HTML and CSS and I'm happy really
Speaker 2: about anything else.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's hard to you know, it's hard
Speaker 1: to sell somebody focused on front end like a framework
Speaker 1: that they don't understand. Uh. And it's you know, likewise
Speaker 1: the same way, right, Like I know a lot of
Speaker 1: friend of people that are like, you know, very happy
Speaker 1: with uh you know next JS or or something like that,
Speaker 1: and they're very efficient in it and it makes them productive. Like, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, why would they switch to rails and maybe
Speaker 1: until they need like file upload or something.
Speaker 3: Uh No, I don't know.
Speaker 1: There are like some things in reels that do just
Speaker 1: like they would just work and they make things very easy.
Speaker 1: And so I feel like the more we can expose
Speaker 1: like what those things are and how easy it is,
Speaker 1: the more people will adapt to it.
Speaker 3: For sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, completely, I mean, yeah, nothing to add about.
Speaker 1: It's something I'm curious because you're kind of like all
Speaker 1: over the place in the stack. What's something from reels
Speaker 1: that you use that like you know, you've used another
Speaker 1: frameworks that is just like unparalleled to using REELS.
Speaker 2: With I don't know, it's hard to pick just one
Speaker 2: because Rails is the only backend stack that I've ever used.
Speaker 2: It's hard to kind of compare it to something else.
Speaker 2: But like every thing you kind of need to build
Speaker 2: a modern web app, it's kind of standardized in some
Speaker 2: way or the other, like like when you look at
Speaker 2: other stacks of some more anecdotal from when I go
Speaker 2: speaking to two JavaScript people, it's uh that you kind
Speaker 2: of need to pull in stuff plugins and things for
Speaker 2: basic things like file upload, you need to go look
Speaker 2: for a plugin for that. Authentication you gotta look go
Speaker 2: look for a plugin for that, uh you uh yeah,
Speaker 2: you basically need to build a stack that Rails gives
Speaker 2: you already out of the box. Like if you're building
Speaker 2: a web application, all the pieces you need are already
Speaker 2: in Rails, which obviously makes it a bit of a behemoth,
Speaker 2: and when you need something very simple, it's not the
Speaker 2: right deal for the job for that reason. But for
Speaker 2: most modern web applications, you do need all that and
Speaker 2: Rail just gives it to you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree there, I mean, it's it's a little
Speaker 1: tricky because like, uh, I'm still trying to find the
Speaker 1: right like front end magic right, like if I want to,
Speaker 1: like I don't know, add some like ux flourishes using
Speaker 1: some you know MPM package or something. There's like kind
Speaker 1: of eight different ways to integrate.
Speaker 3: That into the reels.
Speaker 1: And so I mean I know that, like you know,
Speaker 1: there there is some hope in the in the pipeline coming,
Speaker 1: but it's still very much divided on how the best
Speaker 1: approach is, Like the standard is kind of still not
Speaker 1: firmed yet. I don't know what what's your impression there
Speaker 1: on like you know, integrating front end components that are
Speaker 1: external to the ecosystem.
Speaker 2: It's a yeah, bitter kind of worms Like, so I
Speaker 2: quite like view component the library. I know there was
Speaker 2: some chatter to merge that with rails. The last time
Speaker 2: I met Joel Hawksley, who's the leader of the project,
Speaker 2: which was twenty twenty two summer twenty two at Brighton Ruby,
Speaker 2: he still had ambitions of merging it into RAILS. So
Speaker 2: that is one dependent Like I don't reach for a
Speaker 2: lot of dependencies naturally for every app, a view component
Speaker 2: is one of them. And I quite like that approach
Speaker 2: because it again focuses on generating generating HTML on the server,
Speaker 2: which is just like just the construct with which he
Speaker 2: generated is like componentized and you send that down to
Speaker 2: the browser and then if you need like JavaScript components,
Speaker 2: I just used custom elements like they are absolutely amazing.
Speaker 2: It blows my mind that they're not more widely used
Speaker 2: than they are. They are just so so useful. Like
Speaker 2: last year when I was helping out with the with
Speaker 2: the Rails World conference website as mentoring the junior developer
Speaker 2: who built it, and we needed to put like a
Speaker 2: back to top button on the on the web page,
Speaker 2: which kind of which appears only when you've kind of
Speaker 2: scrolled down twice the height of the viewpot. And this
Speaker 2: was a jackal app, So we didn't have a JavaScript
Speaker 2: pipeline and I don't hate myself, which is why they
Speaker 2: want to set one up, So we were limited to
Speaker 2: basically vanilla javascripts are like my first instinct would have
Speaker 2: been to reach for stimulus controller, but I didn't really
Speaker 2: want to pull in javscript dependencies because we were writing
Speaker 2: vanilla JavaScript without any kind of bundling or anything. So
Speaker 2: I just showed her how to use a custom element
Speaker 2: and it was just so elegant and so simple, and
Speaker 2: it's just such a great solution to so many problems.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's funny you mentioned Joel Drapper.
Speaker 2: Joel Hawksley, Joel Rappers. Joel Drapper is the Flex guy.
Speaker 3: Right, flex guy. It made me think of the Flex guy.
Speaker 2: Okay. Yeah, the book.
Speaker 1: The v compone stuff that Joel Hawksley is working on
Speaker 1: is really impressive. I mean, there's a there's always so
Speaker 1: much like coming out there too, and and it it
Speaker 1: makes me think of Joel Drapper, who is funny. They're
Speaker 1: both Joel working on similar with the Flex repo. I
Speaker 1: mean I just saw I've been.
Speaker 3: Following the f L E c K S okay.
Speaker 1: Which basically makes like a bi directional you know, data
Speaker 1: coupled view component basically with Flex that you can like
Speaker 1: serve asynchronously over web sockets to.
Speaker 3: Like get updates.
Speaker 1: Really cool stuff where you get kind of like the
Speaker 1: data coupled back end to the front end in a
Speaker 1: single component.
Speaker 3: It's like really neat and to be honest, like the
Speaker 3: whole Phoenix Live you like, which has been out a long.
Speaker 2: Time, right, Yeah, yeah, you.
Speaker 1: Know I've been waiting for something like that in reels
Speaker 1: for the longest time because we're close with you know,
Speaker 1: hot wire. I know that was like kind of supposed
Speaker 1: to be the driver for that. It is still a
Speaker 1: little bit clunky, I think with all the IDs and
Speaker 1: trying to manage what streams to what and what what
Speaker 1: file holds, what update right and what gets executed where
Speaker 1: it's still a little bit hard to follow.
Speaker 2: H Yeah, it is. I'm not used live, but live
Speaker 2: y is obviously is a bit for one thing, and right,
Speaker 2: stuff like action cable and the broadcast system within hot
Speaker 2: wires just like a feature of a bigger thing. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I guess that's why it just felt it feels a
Speaker 2: bit bolleted on because because it is it is.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's funny, but.
Speaker 1: You know, I mean I'm hopeful, like it's a it's
Speaker 1: funny that like you know, view component as an example,
Speaker 1: hasn't like kind of made its way into the reel's
Speaker 1: ecosystem with how with its longevity? Right? Uh? Yeah, obviously
Speaker 1: there's some trepidation for a reason, right, Like it does
Speaker 1: introduce kind of some you know DSL that you have
Speaker 1: to be familiar with, and it's not quite as real as.
Speaker 3: It it could be.
Speaker 1: It's I guess it's more of the Ruby way than
Speaker 1: the Reels way, which is kind of funny.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's very true. I don't know exactly what
Speaker 2: the objections to getting it into reals were, but yeah,
Speaker 2: that is probably likely. One of them is that it
Speaker 2: just feels a bit different. I couldn't articulate exactly why.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny because like I remember, you know, I
Speaker 1: haven't done view components in a while, but the last
Speaker 1: I did it was like great encapsulation. You know, you
Speaker 1: could test the changes that get made to your component.
Speaker 1: It's encapsulated perfectly, and you know, when you mutate the props,
Speaker 1: the actual HTML that gets rendered gets changed in specific
Speaker 1: ways and.
Speaker 3: You don't have to worry about it. It's all Ruby.
Speaker 3: I mean, there's a lot of appealing qualities of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like it becomes the same like front
Speaker 1: end issue of Okay, well how do you extend it?
Speaker 1: How do you like add these custom components, our custom features,
Speaker 1: and then you end up hied into the DSL of
Speaker 1: the framework.
Speaker 3: And because it's its own framework.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like Flex kind of has the same issues there too, Right,
Speaker 1: is that if he wanted to create your own you know,
Speaker 1: element or something like that or component. It's not exactly
Speaker 1: straightforward because you have to follow however, the framework has
Speaker 1: it set up, and you know, all of these things
Speaker 1: go against what most front end people do. So I
Speaker 1: feel like the you know, the the rails and Ruby
Speaker 1: like developer ecosystem that's full stack like slowly gets narrowed
Speaker 1: in as you get to like the front end.
Speaker 3: Like it's very like back. It's been back and heavy
Speaker 3: for a long time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's been shared like it's it's getting wider, right,
Speaker 1: but like I feel like even still that like the
Speaker 1: audience narrows quite a bit when you get like closer
Speaker 1: to the front and side of things.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it does that. I don't know, maybe I'm a
Speaker 2: bit old school. I don't really see a massive reason
Speaker 2: for there to be this demarcation between front end and
Speaker 2: back end. Like sure, you might be better at one
Speaker 2: compared to the other, but I think if you're a
Speaker 2: web developer, you should just be able to do everything.
Speaker 3: Well, I think it comes in it.
Speaker 1: I'm torn, right, Like I've been at a small organization
Speaker 1: where having full stack people is you know, very beneficial,
Speaker 1: and like when you have fewer people, it's just easier
Speaker 1: to move faster if everybody kind of touches on all
Speaker 1: the same things, but in a bigger organization too. It's
Speaker 1: like kind of nice having people that just devote themselves
Speaker 1: to like making sure front end components work smoothly, right,
Speaker 1: or like once you get a design system in play,
Speaker 1: making sure that all the components are uniform across all
Speaker 1: of your applications and making sure that like things is
Speaker 1: like it's a smooth experience for the user.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: UX is like on its own is probably its own
Speaker 1: you know field, and so like if you have a
Speaker 1: team devoted to just UX, like the number of back
Speaker 1: end things they'd have to work on is going to
Speaker 1: get smaller and smaller as they start to you know,
Speaker 1: work on more and more of that system that they're building,
Speaker 1: to be honest, And.
Speaker 3: So it's like it's a double edged sword really because
Speaker 3: like maybe for like.
Speaker 1: Maybe for most people working in rails, right, like you
Speaker 1: want that full feature set in full stack mentality. Yeah,
Speaker 1: as a larger entity, it's just like becomes less and
Speaker 1: less attractive or desire, like your need for it starts
Speaker 1: to thin out right after a certain thing. So I
Speaker 1: don't know, it's the problem is like we need both, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, the desire for specialists is like kind
Speaker 1: of still important.
Speaker 2: Right, Like yeah, yeah it is.
Speaker 1: You're still going to need somebody to work specifically on
Speaker 1: security at some point if you if that's part of
Speaker 1: your core business, right and or if you have regulatory
Speaker 1: aspects of your business, you know, you're going to have
Speaker 1: these specialists that are in demand no matter what. Uh So,
Speaker 1: I don't know the it's it's hard because like as
Speaker 1: a perfect example of like security, right, like active record
Speaker 1: encryption is like awesome, right, and they had, you know,
Speaker 1: when they were first releasing that, you know, they had
Speaker 1: like a third party auditor come in and make sure
Speaker 1: that you know all of the encryption stuff because like
Speaker 1: not nobody's worrying on encryption stuff specifically, you know, on
Speaker 1: the real core team. I mean they're there are handful
Speaker 1: of people that have knowledge of it, right yeah, but
Speaker 1: they're not like working on the new algorithms, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah that's problem there. I'd be worried if
Speaker 2: they were working on the algorithms.
Speaker 3: Right yeah, like what are they sneaking in? Right? Like yeah,
Speaker 3: just reminds me of that.
Speaker 1: Uh And guys Adam Gordon Bell, he has this great podcast,
Speaker 1: the co reor cursive podcast. Uh, and he had somebody
Speaker 1: They did this whole like dialogue like re enacting that
Speaker 1: security incident recently that made it into the compiler kernels
Speaker 1: from some like you know, Chinese co conspirator supposedly like
Speaker 1: you know, they don't really know like too much of
Speaker 1: the details, but just like you know, part of the
Speaker 1: I forget was it the GNU compiler. It was some
Speaker 1: something tangentially related to the assembly aspects of compiling where
Speaker 1: they were able to get like uh you know, ah,
Speaker 1: I don't know, some kind of like uh like mutation
Speaker 1: to the our permutation to the compiling that like made
Speaker 1: it like inject code like with anything that was compiled
Speaker 1: with it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that spread like crazy.
Speaker 1: It was just like a very interesting dialogue.
Speaker 3: But it actually think of.
Speaker 1: This stuff right, like you know what else is just
Speaker 1: like in there? There's no I mean, you'd be selective
Speaker 1: of your contributors, but I don't know that that's like
Speaker 1: a long winded thing about you know, specialists really but
Speaker 1: like you know, I don't think we should shy away
Speaker 1: from them. And you know, the more we can keep
Speaker 1: things modular and accessible, the better that the framework will be.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I completely agree with all your points on specialists,
Speaker 2: and it's absolutely a good thing when you have someone
Speaker 2: who's gone really deep on like, yeah, one aspect of
Speaker 2: maybe like front enda, backend or whatever. But I also
Speaker 2: think that you shouldn't be completely unaware of the other thing.
Speaker 2: Like if you're a front end specialist and you're like
Speaker 2: is at that, it shouldn't mean that you're afraid to
Speaker 2: create a model, a controller, a database, vibration that kind
Speaker 2: of like, yeah, sure you may not be as good
Speaker 2: at it as someone who specializes in the back end,
Speaker 2: but I think you should be competent enough to be
Speaker 2: able to do the basics.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't disagree with that.
Speaker 1: I think having the tools and the framework that makes
Speaker 1: that easier to do the better. Yeah, these generators are great,
Speaker 1: I mean to be honest, I would like to see
Speaker 1: some improvements there to the whole generator aspect of things
Speaker 1: and customization. So I know you already can do, but
Speaker 1: I don't know, it seems like not straightforward as a
Speaker 1: first time user on like what you can generate, what's available,
Speaker 1: like the you know that is definitely discoverability is definitely
Speaker 1: still a problem within.
Speaker 2: The yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: Which the guides are great.
Speaker 1: I'm so happy to see all the documentation, you know,
Speaker 1: getting the tender love and care that it needs.
Speaker 3: But you know, it's still like discoverability problem.
Speaker 1: Is uh, you know, even on the development side is
Speaker 1: still an issue.
Speaker 3: I don't know, what do you what do you point
Speaker 3: people to that?
Speaker 1: Like, let's say you're talking with somebody on the JavaScript
Speaker 1: side and you're like trying to convince them, you know, hey,
Speaker 1: like it's not so hard, Like what do you point
Speaker 1: them at?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good question. Off the top of my head,
Speaker 2: I wouldn't know what to point them at it. I'd
Speaker 2: probably look for a blog post, to be honest, I'd
Speaker 2: probably look for a step by step tutorial and how
Speaker 2: do you like create a model or whatever? Because the
Speaker 2: Rails guys are very good, but they're also kind of
Speaker 2: aimed at someone who's actually trying to like learn rails,
Speaker 2: is familiar with with rails, which is fine because you
Speaker 2: need you need to write for a set of target
Speaker 2: audience otherwise nothing's ever going to make any sense. But yeah,
Speaker 2: if I'm talking to someone who's like more front and
Speaker 2: he doesn't really know much about rails, and unless they're
Speaker 2: like keen to really get into Rails. The guides is
Speaker 2: probably not where I would send them.
Speaker 1: That makes it somebody should go create a Ruby toolbox
Speaker 1: for Rail's tutorials, right, I feel like there's value, so
Speaker 1: much value there.
Speaker 2: I should just buy my book.
Speaker 3: Or by go ahead, they still.
Speaker 2: Rails are not good dot com going by it now.
Speaker 1: Honestly, that book is so oppressively like large and like
Speaker 1: covers all the topics you could possibly need, Like we
Speaker 1: should be pumping it out there because like, honestly, if hey,
Speaker 1: if you have questions about that hot wire framework, like
Speaker 1: it's in there, in there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if it's not, you can email me right and
Speaker 2: you can demand, like I demand that you're right about
Speaker 2: this feature. I mean, I'll pay attention. I may not
Speaker 2: pay any attention to your demand, but you can write
Speaker 2: me if you want.
Speaker 3: That's great. So what else do you feel like you're
Speaker 3: missing out on in real's world?
Speaker 2: I know? For me, I think conferences are just about networking.
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily miss any of the talks because I
Speaker 2: just catch up on YouTube afterwards. Most conferences these days
Speaker 2: put the dogs on YouTube. The main reason I kind
Speaker 2: of wish I was there the networking aspect, especially as
Speaker 2: a freelancer, it's it's kind of key. But yeah, again,
Speaker 2: as a freelancer getting over to Toronto and paying for
Speaker 2: I think it was like five hundred dollars six hundred
Speaker 2: dollar ticket on top of hotels and flights, it's just
Speaker 2: like and then the opportunity cost of lost income because
Speaker 2: if I go will be probably a week, and that's
Speaker 2: one week of income lost. You're looking at when you
Speaker 2: combine everything, you're probably looking at closer to like five
Speaker 2: thousand dollars, And it's like, do I really want to
Speaker 2: spend that much? Like I'm going, I'm going to New
Speaker 2: Zealand for six weeks at the end of the year,
Speaker 2: and I'm probably spending about six pounds for that entire
Speaker 2: trip for six weeks.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: You know you're in the European region too, which has
Speaker 1: so many great conferences. Yeah, yeah, I understand totally. I
Speaker 1: actually have fomo myself about all those great conferences that
Speaker 1: are there that just probably won't ever get to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're really gonna. I think that Devo shout out
Speaker 2: to friendly that RB where I spoke last year, I
Speaker 2: couldn't it was last week I couldn't go this year
Speaker 2: just because the dates didn't work for me. I had
Speaker 2: another trip planned, but if anyone's looking to get over
Speaker 2: to Europe, that's probably one. And I'm speaking at Hagis
Speaker 2: Ruby next month as well. That's the first year of
Speaker 2: that conference in Edinburgh, so that should be fun because Olie,
Speaker 2: who we had on this show, I think two or
Speaker 2: three weeks ago, he's a speaker as well, So I'm
Speaker 2: sure that'll be a good conference as well. Yeah, is
Speaker 2: beautiful too, lovely city. I love going there.
Speaker 3: Well, we've talked about so much here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we've covered everything that we know of
Speaker 2: at this point.
Speaker 1: That we're gonna have to have some follow up talks
Speaker 1: with you know, some of the co creators here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we should have. I think we really
Speaker 2: need to get Rosa on to talk about solid Q. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I think we should get someone I don't. I
Speaker 2: think it's Donald who handles a lot of the Camal stuff.
Speaker 2: Would love to get him on and chat comal with him.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got a couple of so.
Speaker 3: Many great insights there.
Speaker 1: You know what's coming out, you know, it's hard to
Speaker 1: use it all, you know right away, So because yeah,
Speaker 1: kind of how it all works and how you can
Speaker 1: because I want to.
Speaker 2: Know, Yeah, exactly, Like sometimes the best way is to
Speaker 2: have like a couple of couple of idiots, like I
Speaker 2: was just ask stupid questions, uh, to the expert, and
Speaker 2: that's how like other people can also learn. So definitely, yeah,
Speaker 2: we're getting them on all right.
Speaker 1: Well, Uh, is there anything else you wanted to talk
Speaker 1: about today?
Speaker 2: Is no? I think that covers it awesome.
Speaker 3: Uh, well let's moving to our picks.
Speaker 2: All right, So yeah, I'll go first, So I'll do
Speaker 2: a musical pick and a movie pic. I think I
Speaker 2: don't have actually do a tech pic as well, so
Speaker 2: I have a musical pick. I went to see a
Speaker 2: band called Big Big Train on Tuesday, and they're like
Speaker 2: an English progressive rock band. To me, they kind of
Speaker 2: just embody England as a country. They're like the most
Speaker 2: English band you could ever have. They sing about like
Speaker 2: the history and the countryside and uh. They had one
Speaker 2: album which is like about a little bit about space
Speaker 2: exploration that a song called Apollo and Voyager and stuff.
Speaker 2: So they're like very and their latest album has two
Speaker 2: songs about cricket. So they're about as English a band
Speaker 2: as you could possibly get. So I absolutely love them.
Speaker 2: They're a great live band as well. I believe they're
Speaker 2: over in America next year for a few shows in
Speaker 2: the spring, so if live music is your thing, i'd
Speaker 2: recommend checking them out. I recently saw a movie called
Speaker 2: See How They Run, which I just loved it. It's
Speaker 2: a twist on the Who Done It genre, so it's
Speaker 2: kind of the events take place around a performance of
Speaker 2: the play The Mousetrap, which itself is a good old
Speaker 2: fashioned who Done It? Written by Gartha Christie, which has
Speaker 2: been running here in London for something like seventy or
Speaker 2: eighty years or something silly like that. So the events
Speaker 2: of this movie take place around that performance, and it
Speaker 2: is just such a self aware and self deprecating movie,
Speaker 2: Like how Deadpool is self aware for superhero movies and
Speaker 2: kind of makes fun of itself. I think See How
Speaker 2: They Run is equally self aware to the hood on
Speaker 2: a genre and equally makes fun of itself. And I
Speaker 2: just love movies that I like that. It's like, we
Speaker 2: know we're full of shit, and we're not going to
Speaker 2: make any pretense that we're not full of shit. It's
Speaker 2: some brilliant, brilliantly written So yeah, that's my movie pick,
Speaker 2: and yesterday I was just looking for some applications that
Speaker 2: would help me screen record and webcam record at the
Speaker 2: same time to do like a screen cast or something
Speaker 2: if I just want to send a demo of something
Speaker 2: I'm doing to a friend. I couldn't find something that
Speaker 2: was like cheap just that literally just did this one thing,
Speaker 2: which is record my screen and the webcam and give
Speaker 2: me a video file at the end. But then I
Speaker 2: found this app called clean shot X or clean shot ten.
Speaker 2: I don't know which one, but a cleanshot dot com.
Speaker 2: I haven't bought it yet, but it looks exactly like
Speaker 2: what I'm after. So if you if you're looking to
Speaker 2: record screen casts, clean shot is probably a good way
Speaker 2: to go if you're in a mact right, that's my picks.
Speaker 3: Awesome, Yeah, I'll have to check these out. So I
Speaker 3: have just a couple of picks. Here.
Speaker 1: The Ruby AI Happy Hours happening again in New York City.
Speaker 1: This time they're doing a demo night, so I'm excited
Speaker 1: to go to that, actually giving a demo of a
Speaker 1: project I started called podcast Buddy, which I hope to
Speaker 1: have on the show soon. But a little AI companion
Speaker 1: that can join and answer questions, drives the whole thing
Speaker 1: and summarizes events and things.
Speaker 3: So I'm pretty excited about demoing that.
Speaker 1: And I was hoping to get a fully offline version
Speaker 1: of it working. But the you know, the talk back
Speaker 1: aspect of it is like very much just like a
Speaker 1: speak command at this point to s x iMac. Otherwise
Speaker 1: it's like servers involved, and uh, you know, it's way
Speaker 1: too many dependencies to get the Texas speech working just right.
Speaker 2: Simple is good. I like, I like simple yep.
Speaker 1: So uh check it out podcast buddy. You can run
Speaker 1: it just in the command line and it'll like transcribe
Speaker 1: your conversation.
Speaker 3: I use it for meetings too.
Speaker 1: It's great fully offline transcription hirt CPP uh.
Speaker 3: And uh. Next to that, I.
Speaker 1: Was revisiting something, uh, one of our projects at Proximity
Speaker 1: called simple Kick. It's a job orchestration for Sidekick, and
Speaker 1: it's it's fantastic. It gives you like ways to run
Speaker 1: jobs in parallel and orchestrate many things at once and
Speaker 1: get callbacks when things are complete or if there's failures.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: It's super useful and I would definitely recommend checking that
Speaker 3: out as well.
Speaker 2: What's it called again?
Speaker 3: Simple Kick? So simple and then k i.
Speaker 2: Q okay, nice uh cool, and we build.
Speaker 3: It around top of Sidekick itself and it does require Sidekick
Speaker 3: Pro but.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I'm just looking at the read me now
Speaker 2: because yea, I was going to say that my client,
Speaker 2: we pay for Sidekick Enterprise, and we've got quite a
Speaker 2: lot of complex stuff around batching and callbacks and stuff
Speaker 2: like that. So I'll check this out. Maybe it can
Speaker 2: make life easier in some way or the other.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean I have a few things working
Speaker 1: with this, and it just it does makes the whole
Speaker 1: process just like so streamlined, nice, easy, a reason about.
Speaker 1: I hope everybody out there is enjoying Rails World feed
Speaker 1: as much as we are, and hopefully we can get
Speaker 1: some of these, you know, some of these speakers lined
Speaker 1: up here and dig in some more on the details
Speaker 1: coming soon.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely be great to get them on the show
Speaker 2: and pick their brains.
Speaker 1: Yeah all right, Well until next time, folks, Valentino out.
Speaker 2: Yes, take care everyone,