Speaker 1: And we are back with another edition of the Federalist
Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, Senior Elections correspondent at the
Federalist and your experienced Shirpa on today's quest for Knowledge.
As always, you can email the show at radio at
the Federalist dot com, follow us on x at FDRLST,
make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcast, and
of course to the premium version of our website as well.
Our guest today is Ira Melman with the Federation for
American Immigration Reform FAIR. They have done excellent work over
the years and tracking the real numbers behind the immigration
problem in America. Our broken immigration system now for several years,
are very broken border. I rejoins us to talk about
how to fix that immigration mess the Biden administration has wrought.
Thank you, sir for joining us on this edition of
the Federalist Radio Hour. Thank you for having me. Can
I ask you this question? Since it is the holiday season? Really,
can we have samee immigration for Christmas? Is that too
much to ask Santa this year?
Speaker 2: You know, I think it is coming. It may be
a little bit after Christmas, but I think the American
public last month decided that enough was enough that the
craziness needs to stop. That the immigration policies of this
country are not serving any identifiable public needs. In fact,
it's quite the opposite. It is undermining the vital interests
of the best majority of the American people. And they
voted for change. And you know it has been promised
to us. We'll see come January twentieth, if it's delivered
on All politicians have a habit of kind of backsliding
once they take office, but we're going to hold them accountable,
just as we've been holding the Biden Harris administration accountable.
Hopefully we won't have to. You know, you have people
like come home and in the new administration, there's a
guy who says what he means and means what he says,
and you know, we are hoping that come January twentieth,
he will get to work.
Speaker 1: You know, you say that, you talk about backsliding, I
don't see that with the incoming administration. I think President Trump.
President Trump, the forty fifth president of the United States
and the forty seventh president of the United States. I
think he's learned a lot over the past several years
in this country. And one thing that you can certainly
see with Donald Trump over the years, particularly on immigration.
It's a president who sticks to his guns. But let
me read you some of the headlines iira that I'm
seeing today that popped up within the last several minutes
before we started recording this podcast from the Associated Press.
Trump wants mass deportations for the agents removing immigrants. It's
a painstaking process. From the Hill. Will new Trump immigration
policies keep international students out of the US? Bloomberg again,
all of these coming fired fast. Trump's immigration overhaul is
cruel and self defeating. And the list goes on and on.
This is obviously an accomplice media that is getting ready
for the fight against not only Donald Trump, but clearly
the wishes of the American people who just voted last month.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, we saw the accomplished media during the campaign.
They were saying pretty much the same things. The American
public either them, tune them out, didn't believe them. You know,
whatever it is, the American public was not influenced by them.
And you know, the second Donald Trump administration comes in
with a significant advantage over the first one. The American
public has now had four years of open borders. They
have seen what it's like to live in a country
that doesn't have borders, and they've decided they don't really
like it. I mean, we see these things going on
every day. Just over the weekend, you know, we saw
this horrific story of a Guatemala migrant who set a
sleeping passengers on fire in a New York City subway.
You know, these are the sorts of things that happened.
You know, we've seen it with Lincoln Riley with just
you know, you go down the list, and the American
public is also seeing it in terms of the costs
the disruption to their communities. So you know, the new
administration clearly has a mandate on this issue. They ran
on this issue. The American public, as I said, has
now had a taste of it's like not to have
immigration enforcement. So you know, you can have all the
crying and sobbing and moaning from the accomplice media, the
American public, I think, is on board now and we're
going to see swift action, you know, at least that's
what we're all hoping.
Speaker 1: Why is it so hard for the corporate media in
this country to get their minds around people do not
want criminals in this country, and we're talking about you know, obviously,
when you enter this country illegally, you've already broken the law.
But we're talking about some hardened criminals who've committed felonies,
who've committed violent crimes. And that is based on what
I'm hearing from Tom Homan in the Trump administration and
from the President elect himself. That's the first order of business.
Why is that so difficult to process for the corporate media.
Speaker 2: I don't know. Look, I mean, I think some of
them are idologically committed to open borders in spite of
the fact that the American public doesn't want open borders.
And it's not just on this issue that they are
out of step. And you know, I think that's why
you're seeing the you know, the diminishment of some of
these legacy media companies to a point where you know,
MSNBC is in danger of going out of business right now.
So the American public is they understand what the stakes
are here. Nobody is going to be weeping to see
trend of Uragua gang members deported from the United States.
And you know, as Tom Homan has said, the Biden
Harris administration has given him a lot of places where
he can go to find people who are in the
country illegally, who nobody will miss if they are sent
out of the country. You mentioned the criminals, that's certainly
one group of people. You have one point four million
people in this country who have final orders of removal
that have been issued and they're still here. These are
people who've had their day in court, They've had multiple
days in court, they have been told by a judge
you have to go. There's one point four million of
those people. Those are people that he can prioritize. The
people who just came into the country over the past
few years, who have no real connections to this country,
mostly single adult men who came here to work. Those
are the places where the new administration can start. That's
going to keep them busy for quite some time. And
you know, Tom Homan has also told the sanctuary jurisdictions
that if you try to impede me. You know, if
you arrest somebody who is in the country illegally and
you don't turn them over to us, We're going to
go out there into the community. And not only are
we going to find the bad guy, you know, chances
are we're going to stumble across other people who are
in the country illegally, and we're going to take them too, because,
contrary to what Alejandro Majorca is our current Homeland Security secretary,
has said, being in the country illegally is grounds for removal.
And Homan has said, you know, we're not going to
be out there looking for old lady who's been here
for ten years, but you know, if we come across her,
we're going to take her as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was just about to mention that as well.
What about these sanctuary cities doubling down now, there are
a number of sanctuary cities so called in this country.
Some of them have learned some very difficult lessons over
the years. As I think, one of the greatest acts
to shine a light on illegal immigration in this country
came from the governor of Texas and the governor of
Florida in moving significant numbers of illegal immigrants to these
so called sanctuary cities. New York City in particular, Chicago
is another one that immediately comes to mind. They experienced
ira firsthand, the impact of a flood of humanity on
not just the criminal justice system, but on you know,
the social services system, on the taxpayer dollar, but then
you have places like San Diego doubling down on the
whole sanctuary city concept. Here, what is it going to
take for these cities to truly get it that when
it comes to breaking the law, there can be no sanctuary.
Speaker 2: Well, the people, I think it is ultimately their responsibility
to hold their leaders accountable. And you know, if anybody
in California was paying attention to what happened in the
last election, up and down the state, voters voted out
or recalled local officials not only were soft on illegal immigration,
but sopt on crime. Generally. You had the mayor and
the district attorney in Oakland who were recalled. The mayor
of San Francisco was defeated, the district attorney in Los
Angeles County was defeated. The people that are even in California,
which is clearly a deep blue state, even they have
had enough of the lawlessness. They also voted to reinstate
criminal penalties for shoplifting. So the American public is saying,
enough of the craziness, enough of the lawlessness. We want
some change. And you know, a glimmer of hope you're
seeing Mayor Eric Adams, who sat down last week with
Tom Home and to discuss you know, limited cooperation, but
nevertheless cooperation when the new administration comes in. You know,
obviously he is a guy in deep political trouble. He's
up for reelection in twenty twenty five. But clearly New
Yorkers are not happy with what has been going on.
The city has spent six point four billion dollars so
far since twenty twenty two on illegal aliens that the
migrants who have come very recently. You know, go to YouTube.
Look at the city council meetings in Chicago over the
past few weeks. People who were up in arms. They
wanted to raise property taxes by three hundred million dollars
to pay for the migrants. The people finally said no,
you know, this is what is happening all across the country,
and eventually the politicians have to start paying attention. Eric
Adams is paying a little bit of attention, as I said,
for a variety of reasons. But these other politicians also
have to. They cannot ignore the people indefinitely.
Speaker 1: Eric Adams has a whole host of other problems dealing with,
and an election is certainly one of them. If he
gets to that point. Based on what's happening in his
personal and professional life right now. Your organization has done
this four years, actually tracked the real numbers. The Federation
for American Immigration Reform, or FAIR as it is commonly known,
has tracked the numbers of illegal immigrants in this country,
of illegal aliens. What are the real numbers right now?
Based on what you know? How much of an impact
have we seen on those numbers? What's the final count
as we wrap up this four years of insanity in
the Biden administration.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, the last time we did a deep
dive into the data was I guess about a year
and a half ago, and at that point we estimated
there were sixteen point eight million illegal aliens in the country.
The costs netted out to about one hundred and fifty
one billion dollars a year to American taxpayers at the federal, state,
and local level. I can only imagine that it has
gone up since because you have had continued large scale
illegal immigration during that time. So, you know, we are
probably north of seventeen million people in the country illegally
right now, and a lot of them have come obviously
under the Biden Harris administration. You know, we've had eleven
million people enter our country illegally under this administration, you know,
by Allejandro Mayoricans own estimation, about seventy about eighty five
percent excuse me, have been released into the United States
pending some kind of hearing, so most of them are here.
And again, these are the kinds of people that Tom
Holman can start with when he starts removing people from
the United States come January twentieth. So, you know, the
costs keep mounting. You know, I mentioned the Chicago City
Council meeting. Chicago has spent almost six hundred million dollars
on illegal immigrants, the illegal migrants who have settled in Chicago,
because it's the sanctuary jurisdiction within a sanctuary county, within
a sanctuary state. And you know, the people rightly feel that,
you know, with crumbling schools, with crumbling infrastructure, that money
could be put to better use rather than raising taxes
on already over tax citizens. So you know, these are
the costs. There's the the sheer numbers, and also just
the impact on American society. You know, we talked about
this latest horrific incident on the New York City subway system.
But these things happen every single day all across the
United States. Trender Ragua is now estimated to be in
nineteen states. They've taken roots in nineteen states across the
United States. People notice this, they notice the impact that
it's having on their lives, and they're saying.
Speaker 1: Enough, as they most certainly are. And it has been
a very, very difficult four years in the lives of
so many communities.
Speaker 2: And I think you'd.
Speaker 1: Laid that out very well. What are you seeing. I've
noticed a lot of examples in the Biden administration from
the outgoing president if he is indeed, I like to
call him the acting president because he seems to be
president in name only at this point in time. But
there's been a lot of there have been a lot
of examples of this president and this administration kind of
sticking it to the next thumbing their noses at the
reform minded Trump administration on immigration, including this silly bit
of business.
Speaker 2: Ira.
Speaker 1: Can you talk a little bit more about the Biden
administration selling off the remaining pieces of Trump's border wall
right before Trump becomes president again?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, essentially, what they're doing is trying to
stick the American public with a huge expense to buy
new new material to construct the wall that the President
elect has said he wants to put up. And it's
one of the reasons he is the president elect right
now is because he did get serious, or at least
claims he's going to be serious about enforcing immigration laws.
You know, we saw that right from the outset with
the Biden administ Right from the first days in office
in twenty twenty one, he canceled a lot of the
policies that were effectively controlling illegal immigration. Before he came
to office, he stopped construction of the border wall. You
had just a lot of material that had already been
paid for by the United States, by the people of
the United States, the taxpayers, just sitting there, rusting. We
had the materials to build a wall that they were
sitting there, and now here he is on the way
out the door. Not only is he just going to
leave that stuff lying around, he's going to sell it
off at pennies on the dollar and forced the new
administration in the new Congress to appropriate more money to
build something that was already paid for. I mean, obviously
the construction costs have to continue, but the materials were there.
The American public paid for it, and he's practically giving
it away. And the only logical conclusion is that he
wants to have an effect on this immigration policy even
after he has left office. He wants to make sure
that not only did won't he enforced immigration laws, He's
going to make it as difficult as possible for future
administrations to enforce immigration laws.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is absolutely irritating and frustrating to the American taxpayer,
already so burdened, so burdened on so many fronts, but
burdened in particular on the cost of immigration, as we've
talked about, and then to do something like this, I mean,
what a petulant act from a petulant old man, and
an emphasis on all those terms for so many reasons.
It's really it's unbelievable what has occurred in this country
over the last four years.
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Speaker 2: Be informed.
Speaker 3: Check out the Watchdot on Wall Street podcast with Chris
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Speaker 1: Our guest today is Ira Melman with the Federation for
American Immigration Reform FAIR, joining us to talk about how
to fix the immigration mess the Biden administration has wrought.
It's a whole lot of fixing, Ira, it really is.
It seems like, you know, a task that is well,
it's going to take every bit of energy. It's as
you mentioned before, it would seem that the right people
are in charge arge of this task. Are you pleased
with what you're hearing in general from Tom Holman? A
real borders are if you will. Are you pleased with
what you're hearing from the administration overall?
Speaker 2: Yeah? You know, as I said, Tom Homan, who I
think he was the second appointment that the President elect made.
You know, first he appointed as chief of staff and
Tom Holman was the very next person that he appointed
to his administration. And I think it's precisely number one,
to send a message that he was serious about this.
Number two, This is a guy who knows this issue
better than anybody. He has been on the inside of
immigration enforcement for decades. He has held every high level
position that there is to hold, including, you know, being
award hit a Distinguished Federal Employee award by President Obama
back in twenty fifteen. I forget what the exact title
of his award was, but he has been recognized by
both Democrats and Republicans as somebody who knows how to
get things done. Even Darris Meisner, who ran immigration under
President Bill Clinton, even she acknowledged that this is a
guy who really knows what he's doing, and you know,
he is a force of nature. Nobody is going to
stand in his way. But just getting back to some
of the stuff we were talking about before, one of
the things that really needs to happen early in this
new year is that Congress finally needs to pass HR two.
It was passed by the House in twenty twenty three,
never went anywhere in the Democratic controlled Senate. Know this,
it's not just a bill to enforce immigration laws now.
It is to make sure there are provisions there that
will make sure that no future administration can simply ignore
laws that they don't want and throw up the kind
of impediments that this administration has thrown up, you know,
the abuse of the parole authority and all sorts of
other abuses that they have committed over the past four years.
So they they not only have to clean up the mess,
but they also have to make sure that no future
administration that's ideologically inclined to make another mess it can
do so.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 1: That raises a good point about accountability. You noted this.
We've all lived under this for the past four years.
We have a Secretary of Homeland Security who repeatedly broke
the law, repeatedly abuse the laws of this country, put
the country's security at risk, put the homeland security at risk. Now,
I know there was an impeachment drive here that obviously
sputtered out, But shouldn't these folks be held accountable? Shouldn't
some of these people be in prison right now?
Speaker 2: Well, you know that is going to be up to
the Justice Department. You know, I think what the American
public really wants is for the new administration to correct
the problems that have been created over the past four
years and to make sure that future administrations cannot repeat
what we have seen over the past four years. You know,
what they want to do with the people who, you know,
as you pointed out, ignored laws, broke laws, violated their
oaths of office, that's up to them. But I think
what's really of concern to the American public is that
things really change, that we see an administration in power
that recognizes that this is the American public's immigration policy.
It is there to protect and serve the American people.
And when you have you know, upwards of eleven million
people coming across that border, people we don't know who
they are discovering that there are gang members coming into
the country en mass, that that does need to stop.
I think that's the American public's first priority. After they
get that under control, you know, that they can decide
what they want to do next.
Speaker 1: What about our so called partners in all of this,
I think specifically of Mexico, but the other countries and
in South America and elsewhere in Central America. Are they
getting the message that is being sent from the incoming
administration that business as usual is over?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think so. You know, you have seen you know,
our neighbor to the North. Justin Trudeaux came and paid
a visit tomorrow Lago. You know, the president elect has
spoken to Claudia Shinbaum, the new president of Mexico, and
you know, really it is in her interest in Mexico's
in Chris to see this crisis abate as well. What's
been happening now has been happening because you have these
cartels that not only smoke the human beings, they smoke
on drugs. These are huge and well armed criminal organizations
that are challenging the legitimate government to Mexico for power
in that country. We keep making them wealthier. Our open
border has made them wealthier, better armed than they were
four years ago. They're making tons of money off of this.
They will do anything that they can to protect these interests.
And you know what we need to do is more
of what has been going on over the past few months.
Early on in the campaign, President Biden did recognize that
this was a liability for his re election did and
he spoke to the former president Lopez Obrador and said, hey,
can you maybe help me out here because I can't
control the border. I'll have my far left flank, you know,
all over me can you do it for me. And
what has been happening in Mexico is that they have
been apprehending migrants who have made their way up near
the US border. They send them back to the south
of Mexico in an effort to kind of discourage them
from keep crying. So there are things that are in place,
and there is some motivation on the part of these governments.
This is not good for them either. You know, Mexico
doesn't need these problems, and you know, with the right
kind of incentives, they can be convinced to make it
a continuing part of the way that they conduct business
with the United States as well.
Speaker 1: What kind of levers can the Trump administration pull? What
kind of tools does the president have in dealing with Mexico.
I know, tariffs, that's a point of conversation always in
this Are we going to need to have American troops
at the border and involved in securing the border on
that front? What are the means for dealing with all
of this?
Speaker 2: Well, you know, as you point out, tariffs are a
good lever to use with these governments. You know that
they want to be able to send goods to the
United States, and you know, we've seen in the past
that if you send a clear signal that we're serious
about enforcing the laws, that people make rational decisions, they
don't come here illegally on masks. So you know, we
probably don't need troops at the border. What we need
are rational immigration policies that send clear messages to people
and you know, just count on the fact that people
do make rational decisions. With some other countries, you know,
when it comes to sending people back, we've seen resistance
from China, for instance. Obviously they you know, they're concerned
about tariffs as well, but you know, a very big
thing for Chinese nationals is getting a student viieza to
come to the United States and study. The administration will
have the power to say, you know what, if you
don't accept people that we're deporting back to China, we're
not going to issue any more visas. And even in
a totalitarian state like China, the government does need to
be responsible in some way to the people. You know,
if we take this away, it is going to hurt
the government in Beijing, and they do have to pay attention.
So we have a lot of leverage, not just with
Mexico or Canada or some of these other countries in
our hemisphere. We have leverage with countries around the world
to get them to cooperate in an effort to stop
what's been going on.
Speaker 1: How do you get the cartels to cooperate though, that's
the question, and you alluded to that before Mexico is in.
You know, a lot of us talked about the last
election in the United States as an existential election for
the Republic. That's a daily walk for Mexico in the
war with the cartels. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Look, I mean, the cartels are going to do what
they try to do to keep the flow of people
and drugs coming across the border. But you know, if
we take this business away from them, it's particularly the
smuggling of human beings, you know, it becomes much more
difficult to get the drugs in. What they have been
doing is using the people as a diversion. They would
send across a whole group of illegal aliens, knowing that
the border patrol would apprehend them, they'd have to take
them in process them. In the meantime, the border was
wide open and they could come across with the drugs.
So look, I mean, these are criminal organizations. They will
try to defy any laws that the United States imposes
or Mexico imposes. But we can erode their business model.
We can. You know, they have created the business model
around the fact that we have open borders. You know,
I'm sure they will find some way to adapt. Criminals
never go away, but we don't have to make it
easy for them. We don't have to become complicit. What
we've had over the past four years is an administration
that was actually working hand in glove with the cartels.
Not only was the border open, but once they dump
the people on our side of the border, we delivered
them to their final destinations here in the United States. So,
you know, if you want to undermine the cartels, start
taking their start going after their business model. Again, We're
not going to have perfection. You're al is going to
have criminals, but we don't have to make it easy
for them.
Speaker 1: I think the American people just reviewed the Biden administration
quite harshly. It's decision at the polls, and understandably and rightly.
So I think history is going to look at this administration.
Even though generally the leftist are responsible for writing history,
it is hard to look at what has happened, particularly
on immigration in this country with this administration and not say, man,
this was a complete and abject failure. And I think
about how often, again the accomplished media has tried to
paint these I don't know if you can call them policies,
this absolute open door, but these Biden administration policies to
just take in a flood of illegal immigrants, no matter
who they are, including, as we noted, the most hardened
criminals in the world. And the painting the narrative that
has been attached to this for so long, even though
it was very clear just how problematic all of this
has been for so many reasons, the narrative has been, well,
you know, this is a matter of kindness, this is
just decency taking in, you know, all of these illegal immigrants,
and you look at the impacts and you say, how
do you get kindness out of losing hundreds of thousands
of children because of these kinds of policies. That's just
one of many examples. But I want to focus on that, Ira.
What are some of the numbers that we've seen about
the abuses of children through these so called kind illegal
immigration policies under the Biden administration.
Speaker 2: We have seen just countless horrific examples of exploitation. You know,
it was so bad that a while back The New
York Times did a series of articles about what happens
to these kids once they get here. Very you know,
they don't have the money to pay off the cartels
that they have to work them off once the work
off those debts once they get here. So we have
child labor in this country when you know, Pharewell was
instrumental exposing the fraud and the Cuba Haiti, Nicaragua Venezuela
parole program earlier this year. One of the things that
we discovered was that, you know, there was an inordinate
number of young females who are being paroled into the country,
which tells us that the criminal cartels were essentially controlling
the parole process of the Biden Harris administration. And you know,
we can only surmise what these young women were doing
once they came here to the United States. But I'm
sure it wasn't really a good thing that they were
up to. But it wasn't good for them. You know,
we see people coming across the Darien Gap, which is
so inhospitable that they couldn't even build the Crans of
America highway through there, people die along the way. About
a third of all the women who come up through
Central America are sexually abused as they make their way
to the United States. These are just awful, awful things
that go on every single day, and it is because
the Biden Harris administration instituted policies that encouraged people to
put their lives, in their children's lives, and their life
savings in the hands of these criminal organizations. So there
is absolutely no excuse for it. What the Biden Harris
administration was clearly trying to do was establish facts on
the ground. They understand that it's easy to let people
into the United States, it is much more difficult to
remove them, and even somebody like Tom Homan acknowledges that
it is going to take some time because there are hurdles,
And that's what they were counting on, that once people
are here, that we are eventually going to give up
and allow them to stay here. They may have miscalculated
this time, but even under the best of circumstances, it's
going to take a long time. This is an ideological
battle that they have been waging since day one, that
they don't care about the well being of the migrants.
They care about establishing packs on the ground, and that's
what they're doing.
Speaker 1: Ira back to the yard sale of the Biden administration,
the fire sale that's going on, the materials being sold
off for pennies on the dollars. Notwithstanding, how soon do
you think this new Trump administration can get a border
wall built? And I know we say border wall, there's
a lot to that. It's not necessarily a wall, but
it's a secure fencing system across the border to make
sure that we have a way of keeping a lot
of illegal immigrants out.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, we're going to have yet another budget
battle coming up in the coming months with the new
Congress and the new administration, and you know, the President
when he does take office, you know, I am sure
that he is going to fight hard to make sure
that funding is included. Because look, I mean, it is
not cheap to build this wall, but it is a
lot cheaper than the cost of providing for all the
illegal aliens who have come into the United States. That
is a much much more expensive proposition. You know, as
they said, we estimated a year and a half ago
that it came to more than one hundred and fifty
billion dollars a year, and that's a recurring cost. The
wall is really a one time only cost, and you
obviously have maintenance costs. But you know, you build it,
it's not going to be cheap, but it is going
to save us a lot of money in the long run,
and the country is going to be better off. You're
not going to see these kinds of horrific stories that
we've and seeing every single day where you have these
criminal gang members terrorizing people all across the country. So
you know, you know, the administration, that Biden Harris administration
is making sure that it's going to be as difficult
as possible. But you know that can't help what they're doing.
All we can do is look to the future and
make sure that this does not happen again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what else is expensive, as you noted,
is not building the wall how much, you know, especially
if you're selling off the materials for it. Now you've
got to repurchase all of that. It's just so frustrating
and aggravating again this act of presidential petulance. But you know,
the cost of construction, of course, is skyrocketed, and it's skyrocketed.
Like everything else, the inflation of the last four years,
while easing somewhat, is still you know, every American is
feeling the impact therein so it is going to be expensive,
but it is this should have been done a long
time ago. We've added more expense to this. But the savings,
I think everyone can agree to a secure border. You know,
those sorts of savings can't be measured ultimately in the
security of this country. And here's the thing that you
and I have talked about for years, and that is
everyone thinks that you know that, Wow, this is such
a brand new concept of building a border wall. And
you have the leftist in this country, you're saying, how
in humane is that? Look at the immigration policies in Europe,
look at the immigration policies and the border security in
Israel and other countries. The United States is the only,
it seems to me, the only sad sack that would
allow a buy administration to do what it has done
for the last four years.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, I mean we have always operated on the
belief that whoever was occupying the Oval Office would carry
out the laws in the interest of the American public.
And what we have seen over the past four years
is that you know, we can't actually put our faith
in that happening in the future, and we've got to
make sure that there are safeguards in place that will
prevent future administrations from doing this. So you know that
that is one of the reasons that you know, we
will be pushing hard to make sure that some renewed
version of HR two it is enacted in the early
days of the new administration of the new Congress, because
it will prevent you know, what we've seen over the
past four years. Look, I mean, the wall is great,
but if you have an administration power that simply says
we're going to grant parole to anybody we please anywhere
on the globe flie them into the United States, the
wall isn't going to have much impact. So you've got
to have the physical barriers that prevent people who are
trying to sneak across the border, but you also have
to have safeguards in place to make sure that you
don't have a future administration that simply decides that they
are going to undermine the basic laws of this country
and let in whoever they want to let in the
way we've seen over the past few years.
Speaker 1: So that's our final question. I guess we'll end our
conversation with this. You know, there's a big victory for
organizations like yours in November been fighting for a very
long time to secure our borders and to have sane
immigration policies and to get our policy leaders, our political
leaders to follow the law. That shouldn't be too much
to ask. But what is next for the Federation for
American Immigration Reform or FAIR as we know it? The battle,
I know is far from over. No, it is very
far from over it. You know, funny as you mention it.
Speaker 2: We just posted our legislative agenda for the one hundred
and nineteenth Congress. People can find it on our website,
which is fairus dot org. You know, it goes down
the whole list, and you know it also includes reforms
that need to be made to our legal immigration policy.
You know, we didn't have a chance to speak about
that because you know, there's been so much going on
with the illegal immigration, but our legal immigration policy doesn't
make much sense either. You know, we've got to end
family chain migration that just brings in people based on
who they're related to and not based on any objective
assessment of their likelihood to contribute to this country, so
that there is so much work to do. And you know,
four years may seem like a long time, but it
really isn't, you know, if you figure in you know,
the midterm elections and then you know, the lame duckness
of the administration after those elections, it has got to
happen fast because that there's just so much, so much
to correct in the immigration policy area.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's really eighteen months for this administration to do
what it hopes to do, and it's an ambitious, ambitious
list of things. Yeah, I'd be remiss if I didn't
ask you do you think this administration will take on
and this Congress ultimately will take on the so called
birthright citizenship that's so impacted immigration in this country, illegal
immigration in this country, something that is simply, quite frankly
not allowed in so many other places around the world.
Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, the President elect said he is going
to sign an executive order declaring that you know, if
you are parents are in the country illegally and you're
born here, that you are not a US citizen. And look,
I mean, I think they have every expectation that This
is going to be challenge in court, and it needs
to be. You know, the Fourteenth Amendment, the clause says,
any person born or naturalized in the United States and
subject to the jurisdiction thereof is an American citizen. It's
not an exact quote paraphrasing, but subject to the jurisdiction
does have some meaning. The Constitution does not include rhetorical flourishes.
Those words are in there for a very good reason,
and we really have to look at what it means
to be subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.
There is territorial jurisdiction, which means if you're here, you know,
in whatever status, you have to stop at the red lights,
just like the rest of us. But to be really
subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, sovereign jurisdiction,
it means something else. You know, if we you and
I go live abroad, we're still going to be required
to file tax returns here in the United States. That
is not true. If somebody who is not a citizen
of the United States, once they leave the territory of
the United States, they are no longer in any way
subject the jurisdiction. UH you know, if we were draftable
age and there was a draft, we could be drafted
no matter where in the world we were living. All
of these things, you know, play into the whole question
of whether, you know, simply coming into the United States,
whether it is illegally, or coming as a tourist in
the late stages of pregnancy with the intention of giving
birth here really makes somebody a citizen of the United States.
That it's never been. It's never really been adjudicated in
the courts, And an executive order would put that, you know,
it would put it right there in the courts. Uh
court there, and you know that we are looking forward
to seeing what they what they decide.
Speaker 1: Well, I got to tell you, Ira that if we
ever get to a point in this country where I'm
part of the draft, We're in a lot more trouble
than you think.
Speaker 2: Yeah, same goes for me. I just you know, if
we were a bit younger and.
Speaker 1: And there was a draft, EI policies aside. I'm not
your first cut for defending the nation anymore. There was
a time, believe me, a fellow of a certain age,
you know, might have some more problems.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I subspect we both be liabilities not assets.
Speaker 1: Well, you are an asset to the good work that
has been done on immigration policy and shining a light
on the horrible policies that we've seen in this country,
not just from Democrats, certainly from Republicans too. Let's be
honest about this. There have been this is a bipartisan
problem in many ways, but it was absolutely has been
exacerbated to an unimaginable and untenable degree over the last
four years in this country under Joe Biden and Kamala Harris.
Thanks to my guest today, Ira Milman with the Federation
for American Immigration Reform, very much appreciate his time today
and his perspective.
Speaker 2: Pleasure. Thank you.
Speaker 1: You've been listening to another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour.
I'm Matt Kittle's senior elections correspondent at the Federalist. We'll
be back soon with more. Until then, stay lovers of
freedom and anxious for the Fray