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Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Knightstalker VTK every 35 00:01:26.040 --> 00:01:29.680 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 36 00:01:29.799 --> 00:01:34.280 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 37 00:01:34.719 --> 00:01:47.439 journalist and author Dan Zupansky. Good evening, This is your 38 00:01:47.480 --> 00:01:50.200 host Stan Zepanski for the program True Murder, The most 39 00:01:50.239 --> 00:01:53.040 shocking Killers in true crime History and the authors that 40 00:01:53.079 --> 00:01:57.079 have written about them. Rhode Island detectives knew they had 41 00:01:57.120 --> 00:01:59.840 a serial killer in their midst, but the victims were 42 00:01:59.840 --> 00:02:02.560 women who lived and worked in the sexual underground and 43 00:02:02.640 --> 00:02:06.599 whose bodies were never found. Then prostitutes began to talk 44 00:02:06.640 --> 00:02:10.800 about a man who played very rough. Police arrested Jeffrey Mailhat, 45 00:02:11.400 --> 00:02:15.039 a seemingly law abiding ordinary citizen, and an incredible duel 46 00:02:15.080 --> 00:02:20.120 of wits began. A brilliant police interrogation led to a 47 00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:25.599 chilling confession. This book is an insider's account of a 48 00:02:25.680 --> 00:02:29.400 modern day Jack the Ripper, including the killer's own words, 49 00:02:29.599 --> 00:02:32.080 telling police how he killed women with his bare hands, 50 00:02:32.439 --> 00:02:35.759 cut them into pieces, and then went off to kill again. 51 00:02:36.680 --> 00:02:41.599 Ripper by Linda Rosenkrantz. Thank you very much for agreeing 52 00:02:41.639 --> 00:02:45.599 to this program in this interview, Linda Rosenkrantz. 53 00:02:45.439 --> 00:02:47.039 You're welcome. Thank you for having me on. 54 00:02:47.680 --> 00:02:50.960 Thank you very much. Now, what made you decide to 55 00:02:51.000 --> 00:02:53.800 write about this particular case. What was it about this 56 00:02:54.000 --> 00:02:57.319 case that interested you, that compelled you to write your book? Ripper? 57 00:02:58.120 --> 00:03:03.919 Well, I had written two books previously about spouse on 58 00:03:04.120 --> 00:03:06.479 spouse murder, and my. 59 00:03:06.639 --> 00:03:09.400 Publisher told me that two. 60 00:03:09.400 --> 00:03:13.800 Crime readers liked to read about serial killers. So I 61 00:03:13.919 --> 00:03:16.520 began doing some research and I found that there was 62 00:03:16.560 --> 00:03:19.719 a serial killer right next in the next state to me. 63 00:03:19.879 --> 00:03:22.240 I live in Massachusetts and he was in Rhode Island. 64 00:03:22.680 --> 00:03:25.280 And I did a little research and found out that 65 00:03:25.520 --> 00:03:29.879 in fact, initially he was just the man next door, 66 00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:32.919 and I thought that it would be pretty interesting to 67 00:03:33.000 --> 00:03:34.599 find out what made him. 68 00:03:35.400 --> 00:03:36.159 Do what he did. 69 00:03:37.199 --> 00:03:38.879 What do you mean the man next door? 70 00:03:39.319 --> 00:03:43.000 Well, he was so average, he hadn't even had a 71 00:03:43.199 --> 00:03:46.919 parking ticket, and then he turned thirty and he started 72 00:03:47.039 --> 00:03:52.000 murdering women, and you know, and even after he confessed 73 00:03:52.240 --> 00:03:57.439 to the crime. His co workers and friends and neighbors 74 00:03:57.840 --> 00:04:00.639 called the police and said, I don't care what he said, 75 00:04:00.680 --> 00:04:03.439 he just couldn't have done it. So he was just 76 00:04:03.639 --> 00:04:04.479 like every man. 77 00:04:06.599 --> 00:04:09.080 Well, when you get people testifying that that there's no 78 00:04:09.159 --> 00:04:11.240 way he could do it, that's a little even unusual, 79 00:04:11.319 --> 00:04:15.360 even for people that are again they're incredulous that their 80 00:04:15.400 --> 00:04:17.920 friend could do something. So this person must have been 81 00:04:18.399 --> 00:04:23.079 very convincing in hiding his real true identity. 82 00:04:23.279 --> 00:04:24.639 Oh absolutely, I mean. 83 00:04:25.040 --> 00:04:27.839 You know, people hung out with him, they went, you know, 84 00:04:28.079 --> 00:04:31.720 went to clubs, he loved to do karaoke, and they 85 00:04:31.839 --> 00:04:34.439 just didn't have a clue what he was doing behind 86 00:04:34.519 --> 00:04:35.199 closed doors. 87 00:04:36.560 --> 00:04:39.000 Okay, before we go on a little bit, we're gonna 88 00:04:39.040 --> 00:04:41.800 we're gonna get into his character right away because you're 89 00:04:41.839 --> 00:04:45.720 referring to that. But just for everyone out there, for 90 00:04:45.839 --> 00:04:47.879 those that may not know, what does the term ripper 91 00:04:48.399 --> 00:04:50.959 refer to in true crime circles, Well, it. 92 00:04:51.240 --> 00:04:55.240 Refers to Jack the ripper who murdered prostitutes and then 93 00:04:57.079 --> 00:05:01.399 cut up their insides and slipped the throats, cut up 94 00:05:01.439 --> 00:05:06.360 their insides. And this is what this guy did. He 95 00:05:06.759 --> 00:05:08.160 dismembered his victims. 96 00:05:10.040 --> 00:05:12.279 So it's also it to do with the organs, as 97 00:05:12.360 --> 00:05:16.360 us alluded to something to do with it. Okay, now 98 00:05:16.639 --> 00:05:20.639 let's talk about let's talk about the killer himself. What 99 00:05:21.519 --> 00:05:24.839 as per your research. Let's go back as far as 100 00:05:24.920 --> 00:05:29.600 we can and talk about Jeffrey Millhott. What was his 101 00:05:29.680 --> 00:05:31.439 family like, life like? 102 00:05:31.759 --> 00:05:33.279 He had a very. 103 00:05:33.639 --> 00:05:38.360 Normal childhood, a normal upbringing. His mother died of cancer 104 00:05:38.399 --> 00:05:40.680 when she was seven, when he was seventeen, he was 105 00:05:40.759 --> 00:05:43.680 in high school, and then four or five years later 106 00:05:43.759 --> 00:05:49.480 his father died. But he had a supportive family. He 107 00:05:49.600 --> 00:05:55.399 had aunts and cousins, and there was no childhood trauma 108 00:05:55.800 --> 00:05:58.120 or anything that happened to him in his childhood that 109 00:05:58.199 --> 00:05:59.800 could account for what he did. 110 00:06:01.839 --> 00:06:03.959 And you say it was a very close family, there 111 00:06:04.040 --> 00:06:07.279 was no, there was. He did not he did not 112 00:06:07.480 --> 00:06:10.480 see a counselor or a psychologist or anything like that. 113 00:06:12.399 --> 00:06:15.240 And you spoke to you spoke to how many people 114 00:06:15.399 --> 00:06:17.079 in the family, how complete? 115 00:06:17.439 --> 00:06:19.800 I didn't talk to the family. I tried to track 116 00:06:19.879 --> 00:06:23.199 them down, but I wasn't able to. But the police 117 00:06:23.279 --> 00:06:27.959 had information about his family. He gave them information about 118 00:06:28.000 --> 00:06:30.879 his family in his interrogation. 119 00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:34.759 Right, So there's no history of any any kind of 120 00:06:34.839 --> 00:06:36.160 problems in school. 121 00:06:36.319 --> 00:06:38.600 No behavioral problem, none whatsoever. 122 00:06:39.720 --> 00:06:43.639 Okay, so what's his what happens after high school that 123 00:06:43.720 --> 00:06:45.839 he off? Does he graduate? Does he is he a 124 00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:47.920 fairly good student? Tell us a little bit at least 125 00:06:47.920 --> 00:06:51.160 about his adolescence life as much as you know, Well. 126 00:06:51.439 --> 00:06:54.800 I don't know much about his adolescence, unfortunately, except that 127 00:06:55.199 --> 00:06:58.639 he was he was devastated when his mother died. He 128 00:06:58.720 --> 00:07:04.160 didn't expect that at all, and he was he could 129 00:07:04.240 --> 00:07:06.519 handle it a little bit more when his dad died. 130 00:07:06.560 --> 00:07:10.120 I think he was twenty two. He graduated from high school. 131 00:07:10.199 --> 00:07:16.600 He was working in a machine shop, various machine shops 132 00:07:16.680 --> 00:07:20.800 in the Wombsocket area, and you know, he just was 133 00:07:20.839 --> 00:07:25.920 an average blue collar worker, no criminal history whatsoever. 134 00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:27.920 You know, he liked to hang out, as I said, 135 00:07:27.959 --> 00:07:28.399 he liked to. 136 00:07:28.720 --> 00:07:32.759 Do karaoke coincidentally in a bar that the wumbsock At 137 00:07:32.879 --> 00:07:37.639 police liked to frequent to also do karaoke. So he 138 00:07:37.800 --> 00:07:42.519 had crossed paths with the investigators on the case previously. 139 00:07:43.839 --> 00:07:45.839 But he was just your average guy. 140 00:07:46.879 --> 00:07:50.439 Nothing in his background accounted for what happened. 141 00:07:51.439 --> 00:07:53.079 Was he aware that this place where he went and 142 00:07:53.160 --> 00:07:57.040 sank karaoke was frequented by cops? Was he typically don't. 143 00:07:57.319 --> 00:07:58.560 I think he did. 144 00:07:58.639 --> 00:08:01.639 I think it was pretty well known, but it just 145 00:08:01.920 --> 00:08:03.959 it just happened that that was the place of wom 146 00:08:04.040 --> 00:08:07.839 Socket where he liked to go. I think it could 147 00:08:07.839 --> 00:08:10.279 have you know, it could have been coincidental that police 148 00:08:10.399 --> 00:08:11.079 went as well. 149 00:08:12.160 --> 00:08:15.160 So he was a social animal. He was a gregarious guy. 150 00:08:15.360 --> 00:08:17.759 He was from all the evidence you have. He was 151 00:08:17.839 --> 00:08:20.639 a real outgoing guy with a lot of friends and 152 00:08:20.959 --> 00:08:22.720 as normal as normal could be. 153 00:08:23.160 --> 00:08:24.639 Absolutely right. 154 00:08:25.879 --> 00:08:29.160 Now, the story of Ripper takes place in a city 155 00:08:29.240 --> 00:08:34.200 that you called wood Socket, woond Socket, Rhode Island. Now, 156 00:08:34.279 --> 00:08:37.639 what is the you know population pretty well, and what 157 00:08:37.799 --> 00:08:38.639 is the nearest. 158 00:08:38.360 --> 00:08:42.600 Big It's about forty four thousand. It's on the Massachusetts border, 159 00:08:42.720 --> 00:08:47.480 about fifteen miles north of Providence, which is the capital 160 00:08:47.679 --> 00:08:48.440 of Rhode Island. 161 00:08:48.720 --> 00:08:51.159 Wool Sockets. You know, it used to be a mill town. 162 00:08:51.679 --> 00:08:53.919 It's a very very blue collar. 163 00:08:55.200 --> 00:09:01.039 Right now, Jeffrey Mailheart does get in trouble. Obviously, he's 164 00:09:01.080 --> 00:09:03.159 a subject of this book, and he's now an adult. 165 00:09:03.240 --> 00:09:05.200 You say, his father died when he was twenty two, 166 00:09:05.320 --> 00:09:07.159 his mother died when he was seventeen. He was quite 167 00:09:07.200 --> 00:09:11.799 traumatized by that. If there was anything, what things, what 168 00:09:12.039 --> 00:09:15.919 behavior characterizes adult life and what was his and what 169 00:09:16.120 --> 00:09:17.120 was his overall behavior? 170 00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:21.679 There was nothing out of the ordinary. He was someone 171 00:09:21.840 --> 00:09:23.639 that you'd want to have as a friend. 172 00:09:24.240 --> 00:09:24.399 You know. 173 00:09:24.559 --> 00:09:27.000 He went to barbecues with his friends. 174 00:09:26.799 --> 00:09:31.480 They had beer, they you know, they would just go out, 175 00:09:31.759 --> 00:09:34.960 they would hang out together. There was one thing, however, 176 00:09:35.799 --> 00:09:42.480 that maybe set him apart from other bachelors, let's say, 177 00:09:43.200 --> 00:09:47.000 and it's something that the police were intrigued by. He 178 00:09:47.480 --> 00:09:54.080 was incredibly, incredibly neat. Even his junk drawer was organized, 179 00:09:55.159 --> 00:10:00.679 nothing was out of place. And you know, his closets, everything, 180 00:10:00.759 --> 00:10:06.600 his DBDs, worth and CDs were stacked alphabetically. So he 181 00:10:06.720 --> 00:10:11.559 had a little i would say, obsessive compulsive disorder, but 182 00:10:11.799 --> 00:10:13.919 nothing that he ever sought counseling for. 183 00:10:15.120 --> 00:10:19.759 Right now, you say that there's his behavior as normal 184 00:10:19.840 --> 00:10:22.679 as it can be as everyone else. But obviously there 185 00:10:22.759 --> 00:10:28.480 is some use and partaking of escorts prostitutes. When did 186 00:10:28.600 --> 00:10:31.879 this behavior begin, I would say. 187 00:10:32.399 --> 00:10:37.159 In his twenties he started, although he wouldn't admit to 188 00:10:37.279 --> 00:10:38.480 it initially. 189 00:10:39.039 --> 00:10:41.679 And then he said, you know, he would. 190 00:10:41.919 --> 00:10:49.120 He would frequent prostitutes African American why it didn't matter. 191 00:10:49.279 --> 00:10:54.879 But he had a girlfriend, you know, and so who 192 00:10:55.000 --> 00:10:56.879 knows why men do those things. 193 00:10:57.200 --> 00:10:57.600 He didn't. 194 00:10:57.759 --> 00:11:01.080 He didn't seek them out initially, I don't think to 195 00:11:01.360 --> 00:11:01.960 harm them. 196 00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:05.840 He just sought them out for sex. And I don't 197 00:11:05.879 --> 00:11:06.200 know why. 198 00:11:06.360 --> 00:11:11.080 He lived in a in an area of Woonsocket where 199 00:11:11.960 --> 00:11:16.519 prostitutes frequented as well. There were various bars. It was 200 00:11:16.600 --> 00:11:18.120 a seedier section of the. 201 00:11:18.200 --> 00:11:22.879 City, right, And he came across as you say, it's 202 00:11:23.080 --> 00:11:25.399 a blue collar town and and you say, this is 203 00:11:25.440 --> 00:11:27.639 a city or part of the city, but he would 204 00:11:27.679 --> 00:11:30.360 come across as well, just for for a term. Would 205 00:11:30.360 --> 00:11:33.799 he be more yuppy compared to the blue collar worker? 206 00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:35.879 Would he be really out of place in that area? 207 00:11:36.559 --> 00:11:39.240 No, he totally fit in. He was he was a 208 00:11:39.320 --> 00:11:44.919 blue collar worker. You know, jeans and a T shirt, like. 209 00:11:45.000 --> 00:11:47.480 To barbecue, like to have you know, throw back a 210 00:11:47.559 --> 00:11:48.759 few beers with the guys. 211 00:11:49.759 --> 00:11:50.559 Totally fit in. 212 00:11:51.279 --> 00:11:53.600 Was he a clean cut guy or was he absolutely 213 00:11:53.879 --> 00:11:57.840 absolutely clean cut? Okay, now you say that he had 214 00:11:57.879 --> 00:12:00.960 a girlfriend, So is that typical of him that he 215 00:12:01.320 --> 00:12:03.159 through this whole through his adult life? 216 00:12:03.200 --> 00:12:05.759 Did he always well, he didn't have a girlfriend when 217 00:12:05.840 --> 00:12:09.639 this happened. He had a girlfriend for a number of 218 00:12:09.799 --> 00:12:13.039 years in his twenties, but he wasn't seeing her as 219 00:12:13.080 --> 00:12:14.320 a girlfriend at the time. 220 00:12:15.279 --> 00:12:18.120 Okay, So let me get this straight and for our 221 00:12:18.159 --> 00:12:20.919 audience as well. So he's a regular guy, looks, he 222 00:12:21.080 --> 00:12:23.559 looks the part, he acts the part, but he does 223 00:12:23.679 --> 00:12:29.200 frequent prostitutes. And that's what say a close friend might know. 224 00:12:29.279 --> 00:12:32.120 Would a close friend know that he frequented the prostitute 225 00:12:32.240 --> 00:12:34.039 or was he more secretive than that? 226 00:12:34.200 --> 00:12:38.440 How, I don't know the answer to that question. That 227 00:12:38.639 --> 00:12:44.519 question was never asked, So I don't know. I don't 228 00:12:44.559 --> 00:12:47.679 think it's something that he talked to them about at all. 229 00:12:48.440 --> 00:12:51.440 Okay, so it was part of his secret life. Right now, Now, 230 00:12:51.559 --> 00:12:55.440 when did women become began disappearing? You say in early 231 00:12:55.519 --> 00:12:59.000 two thousand and three? Right now, who was the first 232 00:12:59.039 --> 00:13:01.559 woman to go missing? Audwye Paris. 233 00:13:02.279 --> 00:13:06.360 She was a mother, she had three children, She was 234 00:13:06.440 --> 00:13:08.559 a daughter, she was a sister. 235 00:13:10.039 --> 00:13:14.159 None of these women were really. 236 00:13:15.759 --> 00:13:19.679 Into selling themselves just for the sex. They were in 237 00:13:19.799 --> 00:13:23.039 it to feed their drug habits. They were all drug 238 00:13:23.159 --> 00:13:26.559 addicts and that's the only way they knew to get money. 239 00:13:27.279 --> 00:13:30.080 They couldn't hold down jobs, so they had to turn 240 00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:32.039 tricks to get money for drugs. 241 00:13:33.000 --> 00:13:38.159 Right now, how is Audrey Harris killed? And what was 242 00:13:38.279 --> 00:13:40.080 the circumstances of her disappearance. 243 00:13:40.279 --> 00:13:43.480 Well, she had been at a party with her brother 244 00:13:44.320 --> 00:13:49.919 and he left and came back and she was sort 245 00:13:49.960 --> 00:13:52.519 of she was sitting on a chair in the kitchen 246 00:13:53.120 --> 00:13:56.080 and she was passed out on the chair, and the 247 00:13:56.320 --> 00:14:00.159 stove was open for heat, and he was concerned that 248 00:14:00.639 --> 00:14:03.000 gas was going to escape, and so he brought her 249 00:14:03.080 --> 00:14:05.679 into the living room and put her on a couch 250 00:14:06.159 --> 00:14:08.919 and he went out. And when he came back, she 251 00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:13.200 was gone. And nobody knows when she left. Nobody knows 252 00:14:13.279 --> 00:14:18.039 what happened. She was walking up Arnold Street, which is 253 00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:22.200 a street in the Cedia section of Umsocket, and Mail 254 00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:25.159 Hut pulled up to her and asked, you know, if 255 00:14:25.360 --> 00:14:28.639 it asked how much for sex? And they agreed on 256 00:14:28.799 --> 00:14:29.559 thirty dollars. 257 00:14:29.639 --> 00:14:33.000 And the fact that he was clean cut, I think. 258 00:14:34.679 --> 00:14:37.360 Led her to go with him more easily. You know, 259 00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:41.399 they're used to going with with men who maybe aren't 260 00:14:41.399 --> 00:14:44.720 as clean cut as this guy. He wasn't unattractive, he 261 00:14:44.879 --> 00:14:48.480 was fairly attractive. So she went with him and they 262 00:14:48.559 --> 00:14:51.639 had agreed on sex, and she started to take her 263 00:14:51.679 --> 00:14:52.440 clothes off. 264 00:14:52.399 --> 00:14:53.440 And he said. 265 00:14:55.000 --> 00:14:58.279 She said to him, go, you know, get the money. 266 00:14:58.639 --> 00:15:00.679 And so he was going to get them money. And 267 00:15:00.759 --> 00:15:04.960 he came back and she was in the living room 268 00:15:05.240 --> 00:15:08.919 and he facing away from him, and he put his 269 00:15:09.159 --> 00:15:13.759 arm around her neck and choked her right the urge 270 00:15:13.879 --> 00:15:16.120 just came over him to choke her, and he just 271 00:15:16.279 --> 00:15:22.639 choked her and until she fell and died. And then 272 00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:27.000 what happened to her, well, then he put her in 273 00:15:27.159 --> 00:15:30.200 his bathtub. He was drunk at this point, so he 274 00:15:30.279 --> 00:15:34.720 put her in the bathtub and went to bed totally 275 00:15:35.399 --> 00:15:38.759 not remembering anything that happened. He got up in the morning, 276 00:15:39.240 --> 00:15:42.879 going through his routine, went into the bathroom, not remembering 277 00:15:43.000 --> 00:15:47.600 any of this, and saw her body, and then it 278 00:15:47.720 --> 00:15:49.919 all came back to him that he had killed her. 279 00:15:50.679 --> 00:15:54.039 So he waited till at night, and he wrapped her 280 00:15:54.120 --> 00:15:57.039 up in a rug and he put the carpet in 281 00:15:57.120 --> 00:15:57.600 the backroom. 282 00:15:57.679 --> 00:16:01.320 Hello, and we could all use bright spot in our day, 283 00:16:01.320 --> 00:16:03.600 couldn't we just to make up for things like sitting 284 00:16:03.639 --> 00:16:06.240 in traffic, doing the dishes, counting her steps, you know, 285 00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:08.759 all the mundane stuff. 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So he brought her 296 00:16:42.039 --> 00:16:45.840 back home in the rug still, dropped her on the 297 00:16:45.960 --> 00:16:49.679 kitchen floor and went into the living room and sat 298 00:16:49.759 --> 00:16:52.519 down and had a beer. And as he was sitting there, 299 00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:57.519 he remembered an episode of The Sopranos with Tony Soprano 300 00:16:57.840 --> 00:17:01.600 killed a guy named Ralsey and then put him in 301 00:17:01.639 --> 00:17:05.000 the bathtub and dismembered him. And that's what he did. 302 00:17:05.160 --> 00:17:08.079 So put her in the bathtub, draped her head over 303 00:17:08.200 --> 00:17:11.759 the bathtub, cut off her head. He used a saw, 304 00:17:12.039 --> 00:17:15.640 just a regular hand saw, not an electric saw, and 305 00:17:15.920 --> 00:17:18.839 just cut her up in little pieces and put. 306 00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:23.359 Her in trash bags and then drove around Won't. 307 00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:28.640 Socket and disposed of her body like trash in various dumpsters. 308 00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:33.559 Now you you have repeated what you have put in 309 00:17:33.640 --> 00:17:35.440 the book as well, and so I wanted to question 310 00:17:35.599 --> 00:17:39.759 you about that. You said that he had passed out 311 00:17:39.839 --> 00:17:41.519 and when he awoke, and then he went to the 312 00:17:41.599 --> 00:17:43.680 bathroom and then he found the body. I mean, I 313 00:17:43.759 --> 00:17:46.160 was just involved in a case with the same story. 314 00:17:46.680 --> 00:17:50.319 It's even less plaus woven than your character, your subject, 315 00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:53.079 Jeffrey mail High. Now you put it that way, what 316 00:17:53.200 --> 00:17:56.319 do you really believe? I mean, it's the most convenient 317 00:17:56.400 --> 00:17:59.519 excuse geez, I just don't remember. It's very conned. 318 00:17:59.559 --> 00:18:01.680 I believe it. I totally believe that. 319 00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:04.160 Why is that he was so drunk. 320 00:18:05.319 --> 00:18:07.440 He was just drunk, and it. 321 00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:10.039 Could be I mean, I'm not a psychologist, but it 322 00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:12.680 could be that his mind just shut. 323 00:18:12.519 --> 00:18:13.000 It off. 324 00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:17.200 And he just went to bed as if nothing happened 325 00:18:18.279 --> 00:18:21.720 and totally forgot until he saw the body again. 326 00:18:21.799 --> 00:18:24.799 I mean that that's what he said, and I believe that. 327 00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:30.519 I just because based on Okay, here's the thing, and 328 00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:33.920 you don't go into it too much, he's frequenting prostitutes. Now, 329 00:18:34.240 --> 00:18:37.519 from the research that you've done for this book, is 330 00:18:37.599 --> 00:18:42.039 there any is that part of his uh not fantasies, 331 00:18:42.119 --> 00:18:44.519 but that's part of one of his characteristics that he likes. 332 00:18:44.799 --> 00:18:48.119 One of the fetishes in sex play is the choking. 333 00:18:48.279 --> 00:18:51.119 I mean, it's pretty characteristic for serial killers to do that, 334 00:18:51.799 --> 00:18:55.039 and to do it with prostitutes beforehand that have testified 335 00:18:55.079 --> 00:18:57.680 at some of these trials. Was there any indication in 336 00:18:57.759 --> 00:19:00.440 your information is that that was a character teristic? 337 00:19:01.240 --> 00:19:03.119 Apparently, because. 338 00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:10.599 When they were searching his apartment, ed Lee found a 339 00:19:10.799 --> 00:19:16.000 photograph of him choking with the same choke hold, choking 340 00:19:16.079 --> 00:19:21.599 a stuffed animal. So apparently he had a tendency to 341 00:19:21.720 --> 00:19:24.480 want to do that. But that's the only thing that 342 00:19:24.640 --> 00:19:28.319 they saw that led them, you know, to think that that. 343 00:19:29.519 --> 00:19:31.200 He enjoyed doing this. 344 00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:35.319 Yeah, that's that's what I thought. I didn't. I didn't 345 00:19:35.319 --> 00:19:38.759 really see any evidence to to lend to lend me 346 00:19:38.920 --> 00:19:42.119 to believe that that that just happened to be an accident, 347 00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:45.359 because there seemed to be in your book indications that 348 00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:48.640 this was something that he did like. So he certainly 349 00:19:48.680 --> 00:19:50.720 he could He certainly could have passed out and did 350 00:19:50.759 --> 00:19:53.359 it by accident, but he certainly, No, he didn't. 351 00:19:53.559 --> 00:19:55.880 I don't think he did that by accident. When I 352 00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:59.519 mean what I meant was he didn't remember afterwards. No, 353 00:19:59.640 --> 00:20:03.319 I think the killing was deliberate, right, but he just 354 00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:05.480 didn't remember it afterwards. 355 00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:07.799 Well, it works in your benefit when you go to 356 00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:10.119 court and say that I didn't have the intent to 357 00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:13.559 kill you, see by saying that I don't remember it, 358 00:20:14.039 --> 00:20:17.039 so I obviously couldn't have the intent. But anyway, yes, 359 00:20:17.279 --> 00:20:22.759 so I mean, yeah, yeah, that's okay. Anyway, what I 360 00:20:22.839 --> 00:20:25.799 wanted to say was Okay, So now they have this 361 00:20:26.039 --> 00:20:30.519 first person, they have this first victim. What do the 362 00:20:30.599 --> 00:20:34.440 police do next? And you mentioned the person that is 363 00:20:35.359 --> 00:20:38.200 accredited with the being your co author here or with 364 00:20:38.559 --> 00:20:42.160 Captain Edward Lee Junior. So he's an integral part of 365 00:20:42.200 --> 00:20:44.640 the story, very part of this story and this investigation 366 00:20:44.839 --> 00:20:47.359 and the interrogation. So tell us a little bit about 367 00:20:47.400 --> 00:20:48.359 what happened after. 368 00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:53.720 Well, Audrey's mom went to police because her daughter, the 369 00:20:53.839 --> 00:20:57.759 last she heard from Audrey was I'm getting off drugs. 370 00:20:58.119 --> 00:21:01.200 I'm gonna which is what they always say, and said 371 00:21:01.440 --> 00:21:03.160 I'm going to go into rehabit. I'm going to come 372 00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:06.519 and see you first, And she didn't, and she didn't 373 00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:09.400 keep in contact with her children, which she always did, 374 00:21:09.720 --> 00:21:12.519 so her mother knew that there's something was wrong, and 375 00:21:12.680 --> 00:21:16.880 she went to the police and found the missing missing 376 00:21:16.960 --> 00:21:20.079 person's report and so they assigned police to it, and 377 00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:23.319 you know, they talked to everyone she knew, they talked 378 00:21:23.359 --> 00:21:25.880 to her brother, but they had no idea what happened 379 00:21:25.880 --> 00:21:30.599 to her after she left that party, right and you know, 380 00:21:30.680 --> 00:21:34.759 and then in October, I guess they assigned another investigator 381 00:21:35.279 --> 00:21:38.039 to her case, but they still couldn't figure out what 382 00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:42.359 happened to her. Then in April two thousand and four, 383 00:21:43.000 --> 00:21:49.759 another woman went missing, Christine Dumont. And as with Audrey, 384 00:21:50.119 --> 00:21:53.799 Christine always checked in on her children. She had two children. 385 00:21:53.880 --> 00:21:57.680 She always called her sons to make sure everything was okay. 386 00:21:58.000 --> 00:22:00.640 They were staying with someone else because she, you know, 387 00:22:00.759 --> 00:22:03.160 she was into drugs. She couldn't take care of them 388 00:22:03.559 --> 00:22:05.559 and she hadn't kicked in with them, and her sister 389 00:22:05.720 --> 00:22:09.119 knew that something was wrong. So on a Friday, her 390 00:22:09.240 --> 00:22:12.319 sister went to the Wumsocket Police Department to file the 391 00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:16.559 missing person's report and the officer at the desk was 392 00:22:16.880 --> 00:22:19.640 very flip with her and said, you can't file a 393 00:22:19.759 --> 00:22:23.759 report because I just saw her last night, which he didn't, 394 00:22:24.519 --> 00:22:26.319 but he just didn't want to be bothered. He said, 395 00:22:26.359 --> 00:22:27.200 come back Monday. 396 00:22:28.200 --> 00:22:28.680 It wouldn't have. 397 00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:33.400 Made any difference because Christine was already dead, but nobody 398 00:22:33.480 --> 00:22:34.759 knew that at that point. 399 00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:36.960 And this officer just didn't want anything to do with it. 400 00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:41.279 So Christine went back Monday and went to fill out 401 00:22:41.319 --> 00:22:45.039