WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.639 --> 00:00:08.199 With Laurent's Segeland from London and Gerard Reed from Berlin. 2 00:00:08.720 --> 00:00:12.759 This is redefining energy today. I'm redefining energy. We're going 3 00:00:12.800 --> 00:00:17.120 to have a talk with the incoming president of the 4 00:00:17.160 --> 00:00:22.120 European Energy Association or the Utilities Association. You're Electric and yeah, 5 00:00:22.120 --> 00:00:25.719 actually I met Marcus some years back. Marcus is also 6 00:00:25.760 --> 00:00:28.920 the CEO of Fortum, so he's being through a hell 7 00:00:28.960 --> 00:00:30.879 of a rye in the last few years, you. 8 00:00:30.839 --> 00:00:32.039 Know, yes, Joah. 9 00:00:32.200 --> 00:00:36.280 So last month that broussel is E Electric Power Submit, 10 00:00:36.359 --> 00:00:39.079 which is really a great gathering, and unfortunately you could 11 00:00:39.119 --> 00:00:42.240 not be there, so I interviewed the Marcus Coroma. We 12 00:00:42.320 --> 00:00:44.920 talk about the whole of your Electric and then the 13 00:00:45.079 --> 00:00:48.920 challenges and opportunities as a finish utility. And there's a 14 00:00:48.920 --> 00:00:52.880 lot of interesting revelation in our conversation. But let's bring 15 00:00:52.920 --> 00:00:56.759 him on today on redefining energy. We're alive from the 16 00:00:56.840 --> 00:01:00.960 Electric in Brussels and we have a great guess, Marcus Roma, 17 00:01:01.320 --> 00:01:05.079 who is not only is your Fortum the great Finnish utility, 18 00:01:05.079 --> 00:01:08.000 but it's the new president of your Electric. 19 00:01:08.359 --> 00:01:10.680 Marcus. Welcome to the show. Thank you very much for 20 00:01:10.719 --> 00:01:14.200 having me. It's exciting times now in your Electric with ARSAM. 21 00:01:14.480 --> 00:01:19.719 Where the summit we are in Brossel's wonderful organization Secretary 22 00:01:19.719 --> 00:01:23.159 General Christian Ruby is and a fantastic work for the 23 00:01:23.200 --> 00:01:25.560 people who don't know your electric What is your electric? 24 00:01:26.120 --> 00:01:31.079 So your Electric is representing the European electricity producers and 25 00:01:31.120 --> 00:01:34.760 distribution companies and that means that we have thirty four 26 00:01:34.799 --> 00:01:39.799 member associations from thirty two different countries. So that's EU 27 00:01:40.040 --> 00:01:45.000 plus others plus Turkey, UK, Switzerland, Norway. So it's a 28 00:01:45.040 --> 00:01:49.920 big constituency. These member associations have three thousand, five hundred 29 00:01:50.000 --> 00:01:55.079 member companies who employ nine hundred and seventy thousand employees 30 00:01:55.400 --> 00:01:58.599 and have a turnover of more than six hundred billion 31 00:01:58.640 --> 00:02:03.000 euros something the electricity and distribution Well, and of course 32 00:02:03.000 --> 00:02:05.680 your job is to go and fight the bureaucracy in Brossels, 33 00:02:05.719 --> 00:02:08.599 I guess yeah. So of course we're spending a lot 34 00:02:08.639 --> 00:02:11.479 of time talking with Brussels. But it is very much 35 00:02:11.479 --> 00:02:17.039 about the dialogue between Brussels, between EO, Parliament, Commission and customers. 36 00:02:17.400 --> 00:02:20.759 So trying to find common ways, trying to find collaborative, 37 00:02:20.879 --> 00:02:23.280 progressive ways, how to reach how common goals. 38 00:02:23.840 --> 00:02:27.960 Yeah, you are now President congratulation, but of course you're 39 00:02:28.039 --> 00:02:32.759 succeeding Leo bion Baum, CEO of Eon and also known 40 00:02:32.800 --> 00:02:35.960 as Leodo Great, was done an extraordinary job the past 41 00:02:36.080 --> 00:02:39.919 few years. So how would you describe the landscape of 42 00:02:39.960 --> 00:02:41.759 the industry after Leo's work? 43 00:02:42.360 --> 00:02:42.639 Leo? 44 00:02:43.039 --> 00:02:45.080 I have to give a compliment to Leo. So he's 45 00:02:45.120 --> 00:02:49.639 done great work in his seoship of Eon, navigating through 46 00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:51.879 the turble end times, and that of course was a 47 00:02:51.879 --> 00:02:55.879 big feature during his presidency of Your Electric. We have 48 00:02:55.960 --> 00:02:59.360 gone through one of the most turbulent periods in European 49 00:02:59.560 --> 00:03:03.120 landscape with everything that has happened. So we have had COVID, 50 00:03:03.199 --> 00:03:06.120 we have had the Russian attack on Ukraine, the resulting 51 00:03:06.120 --> 00:03:11.039 commodity crisis. So Leo's leadership in navigating your Electric through that, 52 00:03:11.360 --> 00:03:15.560 maintaining a good relationship with customers, with the Parliament, with 53 00:03:15.639 --> 00:03:18.800 the Commission, and with those stakeholders, and keeping your Electric 54 00:03:18.960 --> 00:03:22.360 right on track through that, I think that's his great achievement. 55 00:03:22.800 --> 00:03:25.080 And at the same time, when dealing with these short 56 00:03:25.159 --> 00:03:27.120 term issues, and we had a lot of interaction with 57 00:03:27.159 --> 00:03:32.479 different stakeholders, We've stayed the course of electrification and decarbonization. 58 00:03:33.400 --> 00:03:36.400 Leo's a special emphasis was on the grids, so really 59 00:03:36.479 --> 00:03:39.479 highlighting the point that in order to have this big 60 00:03:39.520 --> 00:03:44.159 growth in electricity supply and an fristy demand, we need 61 00:03:44.280 --> 00:03:47.000 really to focus on grids. So this was one point 62 00:03:47.080 --> 00:03:49.240 that Leo made very clear, and I think this point 63 00:03:49.400 --> 00:03:52.599 has sank in with the stakeholders also. I would say 64 00:03:52.599 --> 00:03:56.400 that was great fun. It is spite the difficult circumstances 65 00:03:56.439 --> 00:03:59.919 with Leo and Jorjos in the presidency team with the secretariat, 66 00:04:00.120 --> 00:04:03.520 it was also fun working together. So now you're the 67 00:04:03.560 --> 00:04:07.159 president and you have two vice president, one of whom 68 00:04:07.199 --> 00:04:09.919 I know and I like a lot, which is George 69 00:04:09.960 --> 00:04:14.159 Joseph PPC so introduced probably your two vice president. So 70 00:04:14.199 --> 00:04:17.240 we have indeed a very good presidency. I'm very happy 71 00:04:17.319 --> 00:04:20.839 about that. So Georges was my co vice president for 72 00:04:20.920 --> 00:04:24.839 two years and what Georges absolutely brings to the table 73 00:04:25.120 --> 00:04:28.160 is the knowledge of the Southern European market and the 74 00:04:28.399 --> 00:04:30.879 transformation that these markets are going through. 75 00:04:31.480 --> 00:04:33.279 Then we have Katherine McGregor. 76 00:04:33.319 --> 00:04:35.959 Before we go to Latine mcgago, I just want to 77 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:39.240 tell the listenership that the work does Georgios has done 78 00:04:39.279 --> 00:04:42.720 at PPC. If you had both chairs of PPC when 79 00:04:42.759 --> 00:04:46.000 Georgio's became CEO, you would have made more money than 80 00:04:46.040 --> 00:04:49.600 with bitcoin because under his tenure the sharp price of 81 00:04:49.639 --> 00:04:53.439 PPC has gone up fourteen fold. So he has done 82 00:04:53.480 --> 00:04:55.399 an extraordinary. 83 00:04:54.680 --> 00:04:58.160 Job in very difficult circumstance, with a very very difficult 84 00:04:58.160 --> 00:05:01.279 starting point, and that I think thematic of what Europe 85 00:05:01.439 --> 00:05:03.759 has gone through and many countries are going through. So 86 00:05:03.800 --> 00:05:07.360 a massive shift from heavy fossil content into a more 87 00:05:07.399 --> 00:05:09.920 renewable system with a lot of investments. 88 00:05:10.439 --> 00:05:12.279 Talk about Catherine now, brilliant woman. 89 00:05:12.839 --> 00:05:15.360 Then moving to Katherine McGregor, so I think we have 90 00:05:15.439 --> 00:05:18.639 been extremely lucky to get such a prominent leader from 91 00:05:18.639 --> 00:05:22.839 the European utility and as Catherine Catherine is CEO of ANCHI. 92 00:05:23.439 --> 00:05:26.800 Catherine brings the wealth of experience not only from anchie 93 00:05:26.839 --> 00:05:30.120 but from her previous jobs in other companies, and she 94 00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:34.279 brings the continental view. But also she has the electricity 95 00:05:34.319 --> 00:05:37.560 business in an she and they have the gas business, 96 00:05:37.959 --> 00:05:39.800 which I think is a good compliment. So of course 97 00:05:39.839 --> 00:05:44.199 we're not representing the gas utility represented separately, but it's 98 00:05:44.240 --> 00:05:46.240 good to keep in mind that we need to do 99 00:05:46.319 --> 00:05:51.399 a huge transformation from doubling electricity use and then halving 100 00:05:51.519 --> 00:05:54.879 the gas use and making that also clean if we 101 00:05:54.920 --> 00:05:58.600 want to achieve the decarbonization and electrification targets that we have. 102 00:05:59.120 --> 00:06:02.920 So having Catherine knowledge and being able to also have 103 00:06:03.079 --> 00:06:06.800 empathy towards this transformation that has to happen there, Catherine 104 00:06:06.839 --> 00:06:11.120 is indispensable. We have been before we were appointed just 105 00:06:11.279 --> 00:06:13.600 right now during the summit. We have worked for some 106 00:06:13.639 --> 00:06:17.480 weeks already forming the presidency manifesto, and I would say 107 00:06:17.480 --> 00:06:20.079 we have a great dynamic and we're really covering from 108 00:06:20.600 --> 00:06:24.800 myself having the weight on the Nordic and Northern European 109 00:06:25.240 --> 00:06:30.000 experience and presence. We have Catherine covering the continent having 110 00:06:30.199 --> 00:06:34.560 great visibility there, and then Georgio's covering south of Europe. 111 00:06:34.839 --> 00:06:37.319 The Presidency really represents the whole of Europe. 112 00:06:37.839 --> 00:06:40.879 You mentioned the word manifesto, the one I know is 113 00:06:40.879 --> 00:06:45.959 from Karl Marx, very successful. So what about the eureactric manifesto. 114 00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:47.079 What's in it? 115 00:06:47.240 --> 00:06:50.040 The word manifesto that in my mind when I joined 116 00:06:50.079 --> 00:06:52.519 the presidency two years ago fondering a little bit at 117 00:06:52.519 --> 00:06:54.879 what is this manifesto thing about? But let's say that 118 00:06:55.040 --> 00:06:59.879 it's the presidency agenda. Okay, So we're basically communicating what 119 00:07:00.120 --> 00:07:02.959 are the things we will put our focus on for 120 00:07:03.040 --> 00:07:06.439 the next two years, and we have three key points there. 121 00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:10.279 Number one is focus on the customers, focus on industrial 122 00:07:10.360 --> 00:07:16.199 and customer decarbonization. Second point is security of supply, and 123 00:07:16.279 --> 00:07:19.040 that is both the security or supply of the system 124 00:07:19.199 --> 00:07:22.480 and finding the new optimum the changing environment, but also 125 00:07:22.600 --> 00:07:27.199 hard security physical security. And the third point is digitalization 126 00:07:27.360 --> 00:07:31.680 and AI. And actually all these three things go extremely 127 00:07:31.720 --> 00:07:36.240 well hand in hand. Because we own this electrification journey, 128 00:07:36.800 --> 00:07:40.199 having to double the use of electricity and production of electricity, 129 00:07:40.480 --> 00:07:43.959 it will be very different than it was historically. We're 130 00:07:44.079 --> 00:07:48.240 very used to dispatchable for self thermal power, which is 131 00:07:48.279 --> 00:07:51.680 easy to control and you can steer the system easily. 132 00:07:52.079 --> 00:07:56.360 We're going into an intermittent, flexible, volatile system with a 133 00:07:56.399 --> 00:07:59.120 lot of renewables that will require a lot of flexibility 134 00:07:59.160 --> 00:08:04.319 from private costostomers, from SMEs, from industrial customers and storage. 135 00:08:04.800 --> 00:08:08.439 So the whole optimization problem will look very different. On 136 00:08:08.560 --> 00:08:10.920 top of that, we will move to fifteen minute training, 137 00:08:10.959 --> 00:08:14.079 which means that any data we have will quadriple and 138 00:08:14.120 --> 00:08:17.639 that's where the digitalization and AI come into play. So 139 00:08:17.680 --> 00:08:21.040 we need to embrace the digital tools. The AI capability 140 00:08:21.120 --> 00:08:25.000 is to integrate much more assets into the system, produce 141 00:08:25.079 --> 00:08:28.680 good outcomes from our customers, and that takes us back 142 00:08:28.720 --> 00:08:30.079 to the customer focus. 143 00:08:30.279 --> 00:08:31.959 So we need to understand. 144 00:08:31.560 --> 00:08:37.759 Steel, aluminium, chemic calls, hydrogen data centers, bettery factories, and 145 00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:40.919 continuously talk with our customers to explain what can we 146 00:08:40.960 --> 00:08:43.480 do in five years time, ten years time, fifteen years 147 00:08:43.480 --> 00:08:46.440 stim what do we need to deploy the capital to 148 00:08:46.519 --> 00:08:48.879 produce what they need? And then we need to listen 149 00:08:48.879 --> 00:08:52.120 to the customers that what do your processes look like today? 150 00:08:52.440 --> 00:08:55.559 Can you do something different? Can you flex maybe somewhat 151 00:08:55.600 --> 00:08:59.600 your process? Can you redesign it as an industry? When 152 00:08:59.679 --> 00:09:03.799 follow in these three presidents and manifesto points, we have 153 00:09:03.879 --> 00:09:07.759 the track record and ability to deploy hundreds of billions 154 00:09:07.759 --> 00:09:10.919 of capital to make this transformation possible. So we can 155 00:09:10.960 --> 00:09:13.960 do it, but it requires a lot of customer intimacy, 156 00:09:14.559 --> 00:09:17.840 it requires a robust system that provides the security or supply, 157 00:09:18.279 --> 00:09:20.080 and it's underpin by the digitalization. 158 00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:24.399 One topic which is totally linked very close to my heart, 159 00:09:24.440 --> 00:09:27.360 and I know there a lot of discussion, particular in 160 00:09:27.399 --> 00:09:30.679 the gig protocol, is about the twenty four to seven tracking. 161 00:09:31.080 --> 00:09:35.080 So that's something that your electric supports. I guess yes, 162 00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:36.039 So it's clear. 163 00:09:35.840 --> 00:09:38.720 That be it electricity, albeit other use of raw materials, 164 00:09:38.759 --> 00:09:42.279 other processes. Tracking of the origin of what we produce 165 00:09:42.320 --> 00:09:46.320 and what we consume becomes very important. Otherwise you cannot certify, 166 00:09:46.360 --> 00:09:50.440 you cannot report your processes. And that's again where digital 167 00:09:50.440 --> 00:09:55.840 and AI become very valuable. So here, how many participants 168 00:09:55.879 --> 00:09:58.360 do we have? I heard the number about seven hundred 169 00:09:58.759 --> 00:10:03.120 if we talk about the summit at a very high level. 170 00:10:03.399 --> 00:10:07.039 I've had a lot of debates and in fact they're 171 00:10:07.080 --> 00:10:10.600 all inside your manifesto. A lot of conversation have been 172 00:10:10.639 --> 00:10:14.399 around Spain. You know the blackout in Spain, A lot 173 00:10:14.440 --> 00:10:18.039 of conversation around AI, you know the promise of load growth, 174 00:10:18.159 --> 00:10:21.480 which we kind of been lacking here in Europe. A 175 00:10:21.519 --> 00:10:26.039 lot of conversation about security, a lot of conversation about 176 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:30.759 relativity of prices. In fact, your manifesto and what you 177 00:10:30.919 --> 00:10:34.679 hear from the expert and the practitioner they are kind 178 00:10:34.679 --> 00:10:35.240 of aligned. 179 00:10:35.840 --> 00:10:36.879 So that's a good thing. 180 00:10:36.919 --> 00:10:39.480 At least we know what is to be done and 181 00:10:39.679 --> 00:10:43.000 let's do it. Is there any message you want to 182 00:10:43.039 --> 00:10:46.879 pass to regulators, because that's the moment I agree with you. 183 00:10:47.120 --> 00:10:51.440 It is an intuitive manifesto and it is tightly anchored 184 00:10:51.480 --> 00:10:55.799 to understanding the customer needs. And that's why we have 185 00:10:55.879 --> 00:10:57.919 been as you're electric, we have been engaging in the 186 00:10:58.039 --> 00:11:02.000 antwer Declaration, and we have developed and invested in the 187 00:11:02.039 --> 00:11:06.120 customer dialogue ourselves. And that actually when we arrange a 188 00:11:06.159 --> 00:11:10.240 follow up that we called Antwerp Dialogue, we invited also 189 00:11:10.360 --> 00:11:14.080 EO officials to participate in it. So the key message 190 00:11:14.120 --> 00:11:17.480 to political and regulatory side is that let's all talk 191 00:11:17.519 --> 00:11:21.159 together and make sure we understand what is technically possible 192 00:11:21.200 --> 00:11:25.200 to do and commercially possible to do what the customer needs, 193 00:11:25.279 --> 00:11:28.720 and then how does the regulation and politics fit around that. 194 00:11:29.559 --> 00:11:32.440 So the intuition is something I'm really looking for. So 195 00:11:32.440 --> 00:11:34.639 I'm really happy to hear that if this feels like 196 00:11:34.720 --> 00:11:37.440 it it's kind of an organically developing that's how it 197 00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:39.919 should be. So it should feel like, Okay, we know 198 00:11:39.960 --> 00:11:41.879 where we're heading, and we know how to do it 199 00:11:41.919 --> 00:11:45.240 in a collaborative, transparent way with a lot of dialogue. 200 00:11:45.679 --> 00:11:48.039 I always cracked the joke that when you talk about 201 00:11:48.159 --> 00:11:51.159 reducing bureaucracy in brows service, they so great, We're going 202 00:11:51.200 --> 00:11:53.799 to write a four hundred page report on how to 203 00:11:53.879 --> 00:11:57.919 reduce bureaucracy. That's just me so talking about your joke 204 00:11:57.960 --> 00:12:01.639 about the four hundred pace package on reducing bureaucracy. EU 205 00:12:01.840 --> 00:12:05.720 is engaging in the Omnimus package to reduce bureaucracy, and 206 00:12:05.799 --> 00:12:08.120 of course the concern could be that, well, we'll create 207 00:12:08.159 --> 00:12:11.399 additional bureaucracy. But I think that's a serious attempt to 208 00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:13.879 look at all the regulation that we have in place, 209 00:12:14.559 --> 00:12:15.879 look at what is overlapping. 210 00:12:15.960 --> 00:12:18.799 Can something be reduced? And I think this should be 211 00:12:18.840 --> 00:12:21.960 also and this is my message to the EU establishment 212 00:12:22.039 --> 00:12:24.759 that if you introduce something new, look at what you 213 00:12:24.840 --> 00:12:27.519 have already in place, and then try to keep the 214 00:12:27.559 --> 00:12:31.879 stack manageable. Company like Fortum, we can do the CSRD reporting, 215 00:12:31.960 --> 00:12:34.919 we can do taxonomy reporting and all the rest, but 216 00:12:35.120 --> 00:12:38.240 I can see that there is duplication and tripplication of 217 00:12:38.440 --> 00:12:42.399 information and all of that is not used by our stakeholders. 218 00:12:42.879 --> 00:12:45.360 You probviosh report that nobody reads. So what's the point. 219 00:12:46.120 --> 00:12:48.159 Then I can say that the content of the CSID 220 00:12:48.320 --> 00:12:51.120 reporting I know as you were CSRD is I know 221 00:12:51.200 --> 00:12:55.120 they are good at a corporate sustainability reporting directive. So 222 00:12:55.200 --> 00:12:57.840 this is something that company good companies who have focused 223 00:12:57.840 --> 00:13:01.759 on sustainability in essence have done for twenty years for us. 224 00:13:01.799 --> 00:13:05.200 For example, in Fortum, this wasn't the yeah, additional bird and. 225 00:13:05.200 --> 00:13:08.279 Fortum it is one page, you know, we're good, we clean, 226 00:13:08.879 --> 00:13:11.480 it's two other pages. This it's a lot of it's 227 00:13:11.480 --> 00:13:13.679 a lot of information. Yeah, but this is something that 228 00:13:13.759 --> 00:13:16.559 actually people are using. But all of the information that 229 00:13:16.679 --> 00:13:18.440 is reported and published is not used. 230 00:13:18.559 --> 00:13:19.480 So it's good to review. 231 00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:24.919 Good time to flip from your presidency to your chairmanship 232 00:13:25.039 --> 00:13:28.600 or the CEO ship so Forthum, you've been through five 233 00:13:28.799 --> 00:13:33.559 difficulties and the main culprits are as usual, the Russians 234 00:13:34.120 --> 00:13:36.840 direct clean directly. So explain what happened in the past 235 00:13:36.879 --> 00:13:39.960 five years for Fortum. Before twenty twenty. 236 00:13:39.759 --> 00:13:43.519 Fortum was focused on the Nordics in clean energy production, 237 00:13:43.720 --> 00:13:47.320 in district heating, in distribution of energy, as well as 238 00:13:47.360 --> 00:13:52.240 the retail the customer businesses. And during the preceding years 239 00:13:52.320 --> 00:13:55.559 we divested the ridge business, divested a big part of 240 00:13:55.639 --> 00:13:59.799 our district heating business and eventually acquired a majority stake 241 00:14:00.120 --> 00:14:02.399 and we went up to eighty percent with Uniper. 242 00:14:03.000 --> 00:14:06.519 So Uniper, for the people who don't know, was the 243 00:14:06.559 --> 00:14:08.440 fossil fuge generation of Eon. 244 00:14:08.679 --> 00:14:12.120 That's correct, and the gas trading and commodity trading story 245 00:14:12.120 --> 00:14:12.519 we'll be on. 246 00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:15.919 Okay, So you went big gas at the moment where 247 00:14:16.200 --> 00:14:17.879 Russia's store system. 248 00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:20.679 The idea there is that we get a strong continental 249 00:14:20.759 --> 00:14:23.480 footprint that we can de carbonized as we had done 250 00:14:23.519 --> 00:14:26.519 in many other places. We can decobonize the production fleet 251 00:14:26.960 --> 00:14:30.559 and we get an integrated offering of electricity and gas. 252 00:14:30.840 --> 00:14:33.360 In addition, by the way, we did have a large 253 00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:36.639 Russian business as well. Yeah, so we had about five 254 00:14:36.679 --> 00:14:40.720 gigawatso electrical capacity in Russia, so we had increased the 255 00:14:40.720 --> 00:14:43.960 ownership to about eighty percent in Uniper. Then came the 256 00:14:44.159 --> 00:14:48.559 volatility of prices, first in late twenty twenty one and 257 00:14:48.679 --> 00:14:52.679 eventually in twenty twenty two Russia started to reduce the 258 00:14:52.720 --> 00:14:55.519 flows of gas, which became a problem. So we had 259 00:14:55.559 --> 00:14:59.159 to post increasing first increasing collaterals for the high prices 260 00:14:59.559 --> 00:15:02.840 into the exchanges. So at the peak we had fifteen 261 00:15:02.919 --> 00:15:07.559 billion one five billion of collaterals outstanding in the exchanges 262 00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:11.120 with ourselves and Uniper, and then with the gas flows 263 00:15:11.159 --> 00:15:13.840 being reduced, we ended up having to still deliver to 264 00:15:13.919 --> 00:15:16.759 our customers in Uniper, but had to buy the gas 265 00:15:16.759 --> 00:15:19.639 from the market, so this resulting in a massive need 266 00:15:19.679 --> 00:15:23.440 for recapitalization, which was not possible for a fortmore a 267 00:15:23.480 --> 00:15:26.919 commercial party to do. This resulted in that we sold 268 00:15:27.000 --> 00:15:30.399 our stake, our ownership stake to the German government who 269 00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:33.799 then recapitalized UNIPERS. So now it's majority on by the 270 00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:38.960 German government. Simultaneously, then after Russia's attack on Ukraine, then 271 00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:42.559 eventually in twenty twenty three, Russia took over the managerial 272 00:15:42.639 --> 00:15:45.639 control of our Russian business and then we wrote the 273 00:15:45.720 --> 00:15:50.200 Russian business down. Having said all of this, so after that, 274 00:15:50.240 --> 00:15:53.679 Fortum has focused on clean Nordic energy and what has 275 00:15:53.720 --> 00:15:57.639 fundamentally changed is that the prospect of growth of demand 276 00:15:57.679 --> 00:15:59.799 in the Nordics is something that we haven't seen in 277 00:15:59.840 --> 00:16:02.960 the last thirty years. There's a great growth prospect for 278 00:16:03.039 --> 00:16:07.480 our Nordic business. The production that we have today, which 279 00:16:07.519 --> 00:16:11.679 is mainly hydropower and nuclear power, is ninety nine percent 280 00:16:11.799 --> 00:16:12.639 CO two free. 281 00:16:13.159 --> 00:16:15.320 Yeah. Well, I've always have the question and we said 282 00:16:15.919 --> 00:16:16.960 it's one hundred percent. 283 00:16:17.480 --> 00:16:20.679 Who says one to where is the one p There's 284 00:16:20.679 --> 00:16:23.360 a little bit of steel gas for the capacity, Okay, 285 00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:26.519 that's in our portfolio and that will also fade away 286 00:16:26.840 --> 00:16:29.759 and then focus on the growth in renewables, so that 287 00:16:29.919 --> 00:16:33.240 is coming. Then we have two point two million retail customers, 288 00:16:33.279 --> 00:16:36.639 so with the biggest retail company in the Nordics, the 289 00:16:36.639 --> 00:16:39.519 balance sheet is in great shape. So after all these turbulence, 290 00:16:39.759 --> 00:16:43.759 we are actually debt free yeah wow. And we have 291 00:16:43.840 --> 00:16:48.200 almost ten billion of equity and the eight billion of liquidity, 292 00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:51.080 so we're in a great position to support our customers, 293 00:16:51.159 --> 00:16:54.519 to grow our supply and meet the growing needs. So 294 00:16:54.559 --> 00:16:59.399 we are talking with different sectors steel, aluminium, data centers, 295 00:16:59.480 --> 00:17:04.160 hydrogen synthetic fuels, battery factories, and we see the potential 296 00:17:04.240 --> 00:17:07.759 that the Nordic demand in the next twenty five years 297 00:17:08.200 --> 00:17:11.640 could grow from four hundred terrawa towers to six hundred 298 00:17:12.039 --> 00:17:15.240 even eight hundred terrawa towers. And the way we are 299 00:17:15.319 --> 00:17:19.400 approaching that is that we are developing new renewables. So 300 00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:23.200 we have five gigawatts of capacity in permitting and more 301 00:17:23.240 --> 00:17:27.400 in early stages of planning. We are developing flexibility, so 302 00:17:27.400 --> 00:17:30.039 that's going to be mostly wind. It is wind and solar, 303 00:17:30.359 --> 00:17:34.359 so historically it's wind, but solar is becoming also competitive 304 00:17:34.400 --> 00:17:37.519 in the Nordics. Then on the flexibility side, we have 305 00:17:37.599 --> 00:17:41.359 pumped tider development in Sweden and Finland, and we have 306 00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:45.440 several projects that are each some hundreds of megawatts, so 307 00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:49.319 really big storage to complement the renewables. And then we 308 00:17:49.400 --> 00:17:51.960 have on the full outside we are developing a new 309 00:17:52.039 --> 00:17:55.559 nuclear so we have visibility study or new nuclear. We're 310 00:17:55.599 --> 00:17:58.759 looking at both large reactors and SMRs. That's of course 311 00:17:58.759 --> 00:18:01.640 somewhere in the future. But the message to the customers 312 00:18:01.720 --> 00:18:04.599 is that we can meet your growing energy needs and 313 00:18:04.680 --> 00:18:07.759 there is infrastructure to support you. Yeah, and the cash 314 00:18:07.920 --> 00:18:10.640 and the cash we have the financial means to do it. 315 00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:11.400 Yeah. 316 00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:14.759 So that's really great. So the message is welcome to Scandinavia. 317 00:18:14.839 --> 00:18:17.720 It is definitely the message. In addition to that, there 318 00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:21.119 is the possibility to both. There is COO two three 319 00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:25.200 very cost competitive supply today, there is the prospect of 320 00:18:25.319 --> 00:18:26.200 the new supply. 321 00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:30.599 But there is infrastructure. So the Nordic countries have a 322 00:18:30.839 --> 00:18:36.160 history of heavy industries like pulp and paper, steel chemicals. 323 00:18:36.680 --> 00:18:39.279 So basically all the way up to Arctic Circle and 324 00:18:39.400 --> 00:18:42.559 even north of that, you have huge steel mills. You 325 00:18:42.640 --> 00:18:45.440 have big pulp mills, so you have all the infrastructure, 326 00:18:45.519 --> 00:18:49.880 the roads, the ports, the grids, the people that all 327 00:18:49.880 --> 00:18:53.160 the competence that you need also for new projects in 328 00:18:53.279 --> 00:18:55.599 order to support the customers. Further that, what we have 329 00:18:55.720 --> 00:18:59.480 done in Fortum is that we are developing sites. So 330 00:18:59.519 --> 00:19:02.920 what we hear from customers is that they need reds, 331 00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:06.400 they need power, they need sites where they can locate. 332 00:19:07.319 --> 00:19:10.480 And I'll give an example of what this means. In 333 00:19:10.519 --> 00:19:15.559 the capital region of Finland around Helsinki. In twenty eighteen, 334 00:19:15.839 --> 00:19:19.079 are team set out to develop three sites, generic sites 335 00:19:19.319 --> 00:19:22.799 that could fit data center use. And a couple of 336 00:19:22.839 --> 00:19:26.160 years later, after we had started the permitting and zoning 337 00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:29.960 and we spoke with TSO to get the grid connections available, 338 00:19:30.279 --> 00:19:34.440 we met Microsoft and then a while later we announced 339 00:19:34.599 --> 00:19:38.319 the cooperation selling these sites to Microsoft. Then we have 340 00:19:38.359 --> 00:19:41.240 agreed on the heat of take from the data centers 341 00:19:41.599 --> 00:19:45.079 hyperscale data centers that they're building in these locations. So 342 00:19:45.160 --> 00:19:47.279 two out of the tree will be connected to a 343 00:19:47.359 --> 00:19:50.440 district heating network. So we have a two terrawat tour 344 00:19:50.599 --> 00:19:55.400 district heating system in Espo and Kirkonomi, and out of 345 00:19:55.440 --> 00:19:59.720 these data centers and the connected electrical boilers and heat pumps, 346 00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:03.359 we will provide one point four trabat hours to the 347 00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:06.200 two Dahawa tour system. This is the world's biggest hit 348 00:20:06.279 --> 00:20:09.119 of tech. But it's a long project, so starting from 349 00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:13.960 twenty eighteen, Microsoft wiill start their operations in twenty twenty seven, 350 00:20:14.680 --> 00:20:17.599 so almost ten years. Yeah, but we can expedite our 351 00:20:17.599 --> 00:20:21.799 customers location by four and five years. With this activity, 352 00:20:22.599 --> 00:20:25.519 and with about a dozen sites that we have under 353 00:20:25.519 --> 00:20:29.480 development now, we can provide grid connection up to one 354 00:20:29.480 --> 00:20:30.680 point three gigawatts. 355 00:20:31.359 --> 00:20:37.880 Repeat very very gently for all our infrastadial clients around 356 00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:41.000 the world looking to develop data center. You just said 357 00:20:41.720 --> 00:20:44.720 I've got one point three giga out of capacity. Please 358 00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:49.000 come you can plug here. The electricity is cheap where educated, 359 00:20:49.559 --> 00:20:53.880 it's clean. You know, we respect that contract. Everything takes 360 00:20:53.920 --> 00:20:56.440 the time it takes, but things get done. So that's 361 00:20:56.480 --> 00:20:57.200 your message. 362 00:20:57.599 --> 00:20:59.640 This is indeed the case, and that does not only 363 00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:02.680 apply the data centers, but we have sites with ports. 364 00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:05.880 We have that are at the ports. So the typically 365 00:21:05.880 --> 00:21:10.079 industrial could be still could be aluminium battery factories. So 366 00:21:10.119 --> 00:21:13.960 there is infrastructure also for heavy export or import oriented 367 00:21:14.119 --> 00:21:17.799 industries available. Yes, very welcome, very ready to do a 368 00:21:17.839 --> 00:21:21.039 new business. Good Okay, So now let's talk about the 369 00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:24.480 giant there in the room, which is your eastern neighbor 370 00:21:24.920 --> 00:21:29.039 who's not only has been causing indirectly trouble, but it's 371 00:21:29.079 --> 00:21:31.640 bothering you on a daily basis, if I understand, So 372 00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:34.359 what's going on there. We have a land border of 373 00:21:34.680 --> 00:21:38.200 one thousand, three hundred kilometers with Russia, so we are 374 00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:41.160 enables forever, so we have to have a relationship of 375 00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:45.000 varying SOT over time. And now with the war on Ukraine, 376 00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:47.720 the EU position and finished position is clear. We are 377 00:21:47.759 --> 00:21:51.440 against this aggression against Ukraine, so now the relationship is 378 00:21:51.599 --> 00:21:55.079 very cold between the two countries. There is investment into 379 00:21:55.119 --> 00:21:59.440 preparedness continuously and not as such saying that this is Russia, 380 00:21:59.640 --> 00:22:04.920 but generically as a company. We are continuously under cyber 381 00:22:04.960 --> 00:22:10.400 attacks daily. We have drones flying around there, espionage, there's 382 00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:14.400 a satellite disruption, communication disruption, but this is something that 383 00:22:14.680 --> 00:22:18.119 we deal with daily. And in this environment, the availability 384 00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:21.119 of our hydropower and nuclear power is over ninety percent, 385 00:22:21.960 --> 00:22:25.039 so we keep our plants available. How to tackle this 386 00:22:25.200 --> 00:22:30.880 is own preparedness, having good situational awareness, authority contacts, so 387 00:22:30.920 --> 00:22:34.000 we are talking with the authorities, with police, with the military, 388 00:22:34.240 --> 00:22:38.440 with other authorities, and all the time, keeping our responses 389 00:22:38.519 --> 00:22:39.119 up to date. 390 00:22:39.559 --> 00:22:40.519 And then practicing. 391 00:22:41.519 --> 00:22:43.400 So if I look the last three years, we have 392 00:22:43.480 --> 00:22:46.839 had more than twenty exercises with various authorities, and this 393 00:22:46.960 --> 00:22:51.359 can be just exercising nuclear incidents, them incidents, disturbance and 394 00:22:51.480 --> 00:22:53.960 this is not relating to the current situation, but this 395 00:22:54.039 --> 00:22:56.480 is what we have done for years and years. So 396 00:22:56.559 --> 00:23:00.640 practicing and doing things together and very collaboratively is something 397 00:23:00.680 --> 00:23:01.440 that is a future. 398 00:23:02.519 --> 00:23:03.160 Marcus. 399 00:23:03.319 --> 00:23:06.559 It's been a very dense conversation and I thank you 400 00:23:06.599 --> 00:23:11.039 for your openness and honesty. In conclusion, how is the 401 00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:14.599