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Got black a 29 00:01:55.560 --> 00:01:56.840 dag on the pan right now. 30 00:01:56.760 --> 00:01:57.000 You don't? 31 00:01:57.840 --> 00:02:08.039 All right, Thomas, welcome back to the jay Burd and 32 00:02:08.080 --> 00:02:08.719 show how you doing that? 33 00:02:09.159 --> 00:02:10.560 Very well? Thanks for hosting me. 34 00:02:11.759 --> 00:02:14.240 Yeah, so this is I don't want to say unplanned, 35 00:02:14.360 --> 00:02:16.280 but we move things around a little bit. We were 36 00:02:16.280 --> 00:02:18.800 initially going to talk about the West Memphis three resume 37 00:02:18.919 --> 00:02:24.800 our series on occultism, but obviously we've done now two 38 00:02:24.840 --> 00:02:27.840 in a row on the Blade Runner franchise. And for Christmas, 39 00:02:27.919 --> 00:02:30.919 you very kindly sent me a copy of Philip K. 40 00:02:31.080 --> 00:02:34.479 Dix Do Android's Dream of Electric Cheap, obviously the source 41 00:02:34.560 --> 00:02:37.840 material for those films, and I burned through it really quickly. 42 00:02:37.919 --> 00:02:39.639 I enjoyed the book a lot, and I figured, you 43 00:02:39.639 --> 00:02:42.439 know what, let's continue our series, get it all done 44 00:02:42.439 --> 00:02:47.360 at once, and discuss the book. It's a pretty easy read. 45 00:02:47.599 --> 00:02:50.919 It's maybe two hundred pages. It's something you can get 46 00:02:50.919 --> 00:02:54.800 through quickly. It is very different than the films. There's 47 00:02:54.800 --> 00:02:57.479 a lot of crossover, and if you've seen the films, 48 00:02:57.560 --> 00:03:00.680 there were things you will understand about the book. The 49 00:03:00.719 --> 00:03:03.520 main characters are largely the same, but it is a 50 00:03:03.520 --> 00:03:07.120 compliment piece. It is different enough to be well worth reading. 51 00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:10.159 And yeah, I haven't read a lot of Dick stuff, 52 00:03:10.159 --> 00:03:14.479 but it's obviously a master of the genre. So I'm curious, Thomas. 53 00:03:14.520 --> 00:03:17.400 I'll let you introduce this. When did you first read 54 00:03:17.439 --> 00:03:19.159 it and what sort of grabbed you about it? 55 00:03:21.120 --> 00:03:25.479 I first read it well, because I think I mentioned 56 00:03:27.120 --> 00:03:29.319 I got turned onto the film Blade Runner early on 57 00:03:30.520 --> 00:03:36.280 because very early cable I'm talking even before cable as 58 00:03:36.280 --> 00:03:39.360 we know it existed, the Chicago market was served by 59 00:03:39.639 --> 00:03:43.560 what was called on TV. It was quite literally just 60 00:03:43.759 --> 00:03:47.080 one channel. Then they'd played blocks of music videos sometimes 61 00:03:47.520 --> 00:03:52.360 other times they'd play cooking shows or phishing shows. Then 62 00:03:52.960 --> 00:03:58.120 at night they'd play movies, and Blade Runner was one 63 00:03:58.159 --> 00:04:03.360 of the consistent films on offer, and my mom was 64 00:04:03.400 --> 00:04:07.240 a huge fan of it, so I was always into 65 00:04:08.319 --> 00:04:11.039 it as an ip and then when I got into 66 00:04:11.039 --> 00:04:16.160 science fiction, as an adolescent, you know, twelve thirteen, fourteen 67 00:04:16.240 --> 00:04:18.959 years old, I was reading a bunch of Harlan Ellison 68 00:04:20.519 --> 00:04:28.000 and I got the paperback compilation Dark Visions, and in 69 00:04:28.079 --> 00:04:34.759 the back there was an advertisement for other paperbacks including 70 00:04:35.439 --> 00:04:39.480 do Android's Dream of Electric Sheep, which was then being 71 00:04:39.519 --> 00:04:41.519 the paper bank was being sold as a Blade Runner. 72 00:04:41.759 --> 00:04:45.959 So I'm like, go, wow, the source material. So I 73 00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:52.040 went out and I found it, I think a Crown Books, 74 00:04:52.079 --> 00:04:58.639 and it made a big impact on me. And like 75 00:04:58.680 --> 00:05:03.639 I said, I'm not Philip K. Dick's unusual because he's 76 00:05:04.360 --> 00:05:07.839 he's hard to categorize. I mean, obviously he's he was 77 00:05:07.879 --> 00:05:12.399 a science fiction author, but not in the sense that 78 00:05:12.600 --> 00:05:17.639 Arthur C. Clark was. I invoked Clerk because Clark was 79 00:05:17.680 --> 00:05:25.040 more into metaphysics and theological postulates in questions. But at 80 00:05:25.040 --> 00:05:28.000 the same time, he very much had heart sci fi aspects, 81 00:05:28.079 --> 00:05:34.240 you know to his writing. And you know, Philip K. Dick, 82 00:05:35.240 --> 00:05:39.839 he wasn't like Frank Herbert. He wasn't dealing with paradomatic 83 00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:49.720 systems as his subject matter. You know, socio political phenomena 84 00:05:49.759 --> 00:05:52.480 at scale was absolutely a framing device and essentially his 85 00:05:52.519 --> 00:05:58.519 world building. But Philip K. Dicks his narratives and his stories, 86 00:05:58.959 --> 00:06:07.680 it's about they raise existential questions and ontological questions about 87 00:06:07.680 --> 00:06:15.439 the individual and the individual mind amids disruptive aspects of modernity. 88 00:06:16.360 --> 00:06:20.319 And that's the strength of stuff like a Scanner Darkly 89 00:06:21.800 --> 00:06:25.920 and do Android's Dream. That's one of the reasons it's 90 00:06:25.959 --> 00:06:37.720 relatable because it's describing and depicting phenomena that the reader 91 00:06:37.800 --> 00:06:42.360 experiences in his own life. Because these things are intrinsic 92 00:06:42.439 --> 00:06:48.000 to late modernity. When I say late modernity, I'm speaking 93 00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:51.800 in Hegelian terms, not mercy and ones. This would be clear. 94 00:06:53.720 --> 00:06:59.480 And future shock is a real thing, and a lot's 95 00:06:59.480 --> 00:07:03.600 been written of future shock. The phrase was coined quite 96 00:07:03.600 --> 00:07:09.439 literally by Alvin Toffler. He wrote a book titled Future Shock, 97 00:07:10.360 --> 00:07:16.680 and there was humanist aspects to his analysis, particularly how 98 00:07:16.879 --> 00:07:23.240 marriage patterns and child rearing patterns at scale would shake out, 99 00:07:23.839 --> 00:07:28.040 and you know the implications of the mobility of populations 100 00:07:28.959 --> 00:07:31.759 and the sort of tensions that would derive. They were 101 00:07:31.759 --> 00:07:37.399 in as well as economic phenomena and consumption patterns of scale, 102 00:07:37.600 --> 00:07:45.680 and people like Seawright Mills and Christopher lash dealt with 103 00:07:45.839 --> 00:07:50.360 that kind of thing too, Because it's intrinsic to sociology, 104 00:07:50.879 --> 00:07:55.160 but very few people have ever written anything about the 105 00:07:55.160 --> 00:08:01.079 phenomena of future shock on the discrete individu usual mind, 106 00:08:02.800 --> 00:08:11.480 particularly situated in what's obviously an American context, you know, 107 00:08:11.600 --> 00:08:15.000 or if it's been attempted, it takes the form of satire, 108 00:08:16.600 --> 00:08:18.360 you know, like Kurt Vonnegut type stuff. 109 00:08:21.160 --> 00:08:21.879 You know, so. 110 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:27.240 They androids dream of electric sheep. It was a very 111 00:08:27.319 --> 00:08:32.159 unique book for that reason. I can't remember who wrote 112 00:08:32.159 --> 00:08:34.559 it on a senior moment, but the book The Star 113 00:08:34.600 --> 00:08:38.200 is my destination. I'm not a huge fan of that book, 114 00:08:38.759 --> 00:08:47.720 but it it was hugely influential and impactful. Arguably it's 115 00:08:47.759 --> 00:08:56.080 subjectively in the same conceptual vein, but it's it's too fantastical, 116 00:08:57.840 --> 00:09:02.679 you know, do android dream of electric sheep? It's not 117 00:09:02.759 --> 00:09:04.960 really fantastical at all. In a lot of ways, it 118 00:09:04.960 --> 00:09:09.720 came true, you know. I mean, that's and there's there's 119 00:09:09.720 --> 00:09:14.519 subtleties to it as well, you know that I think 120 00:09:14.600 --> 00:09:23.039 are adjacent that related to the primary topical thrust, but 121 00:09:23.919 --> 00:09:31.600 that raise interesting questions in their own right, especially the 122 00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:36.759 you know, how the United States and the Soviet Union 123 00:09:36.799 --> 00:09:45.559 collaborate on matters relating to replicants, you know, uh, decard 124 00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:51.600 runs across one of the renegade Nexus six who's posing 125 00:09:51.639 --> 00:09:55.080 as a KGB officer who's a blade runner, you know, 126 00:09:55.200 --> 00:09:59.879 because that's liaising with KGB blade runners is not a 127 00:10:00.120 --> 00:10:05.120 usual for a big city American cop who deals in 128 00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:18.039 the same grim professional duties. And that kind of interplay 129 00:10:18.360 --> 00:10:26.799 between integral matters of technology, particularly technology that's purposed for 130 00:10:28.679 --> 00:10:34.799 warfare and violence at scale, even or perhaps especially at 131 00:10:34.799 --> 00:10:37.759 times a heightened tension like that, that was a peculiar 132 00:10:39.840 --> 00:10:43.600 but unsurprising aspect of the Cold War. And that's something 133 00:10:43.639 --> 00:10:48.440 that's very much related to technology. It's not intrinsic to 134 00:10:48.519 --> 00:10:53.440 conflict paradigms. You know, it's just one example of what 135 00:10:53.559 --> 00:11:04.000 I was talking about. But it's also the the ethical aspects, 136 00:11:04.600 --> 00:11:15.960 the humanist aspects of technological civilization. They're not generally addressed 137 00:11:16.320 --> 00:11:20.320 in the same capacities that you know, Philip K. Dick 138 00:11:20.639 --> 00:11:27.639 deals with them, and that's very insightful. You know, the 139 00:11:27.639 --> 00:11:32.879 the criteria of what constitutes a human being becoming splendidly arbitrary. 140 00:11:33.720 --> 00:11:38.399 You know, obviously there's a there's a there's all manner 141 00:11:38.440 --> 00:11:44.039 of there's all manner of counterfactuals that are kind of 142 00:11:44.080 --> 00:11:48.240 on the nose in driving home some egalitarian message and 143 00:11:48.279 --> 00:11:51.279 what have you. But the you know, and the way 144 00:11:51.320 --> 00:11:58.080 they the way they deal with the subjective concepts of 145 00:11:59.879 --> 00:12:02.720 the in groups and out groups, and how such things 146 00:12:02.759 --> 00:12:06.000 are determined in political capacities. It sounds to be very 147 00:12:06.039 --> 00:12:19.519 simple minded, as most moralizing narratives are. But phil Kate 148 00:12:19.600 --> 00:12:24.399 Dick's not approaching it like that. I mean, obviously there's 149 00:12:24.559 --> 00:12:30.879 there's a strongly ethical component to the manner in which 150 00:12:31.240 --> 00:12:35.679 replicants are treated because they are a slave cast, but 151 00:12:36.039 --> 00:12:40.159 that's not the primary impetus for why they're disqualified as 152 00:12:40.200 --> 00:12:46.399 human beings. It's because if everybody is human, then nobody 153 00:12:46.559 --> 00:12:52.559 is really you know, If life forms that can be 154 00:12:52.679 --> 00:12:59.200 manufactured are as human as ones who are born of 155 00:13:00.960 --> 00:13:12.960 a woman's womb, that kind of neutralizes all epistemic priors 156 00:13:13.039 --> 00:13:17.399 about the human condition and what's unique about human beings, 157 00:13:17.440 --> 00:13:21.159 even if you're not religiously minded, even if you're a secularist, 158 00:13:22.480 --> 00:13:29.039 And that causes this sort of spiraling nihilism, and it 159 00:13:29.120 --> 00:13:32.559 also has a tendency to compromise all of their ethical structures. 160 00:13:33.000 --> 00:13:39.000 So it's essential that this criteria be maintained. It's not 161 00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:46.879 just some pretext, you know, to to rationalize why these 162 00:13:47.000 --> 00:13:53.600 life forms are forced to serve on death squads off world, 163 00:13:53.679 --> 00:13:58.039 or be prostitutes or work in you know, lead lives 164 00:13:58.120 --> 00:14:05.200 of endless toy and pain. Obviously, it's an aggravating factor 165 00:14:07.559 --> 00:14:15.120 that diminishes the potentiality of replicans realizing any sort of 166 00:14:15.799 --> 00:14:23.759 liberation or you know, being afforded full agency as human beings, 167 00:14:23.759 --> 00:14:30.440 whether it's not the primary titalyst and if there's that 168 00:14:30.519 --> 00:14:36.480 kind of nihilistic spiral, you know, the center cannot hold. 169 00:14:37.679 --> 00:14:50.000 Things fall apart quite literally systemically. That's really you know, 170 00:14:50.039 --> 00:14:51.960 and this is very much on people's minds owing to 171 00:14:52.000 --> 00:15:04.120 the Cold War as well, because when there's a kind 172 00:15:04.120 --> 00:15:14.919 of that, there's a kind of dialectical aganism that leads 173 00:15:14.960 --> 00:15:23.000 to you know, more like profound philosophical activity when there's 174 00:15:23.080 --> 00:15:28.240 quite literally systems competing for supremacy over this planet and 175 00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:35.879 over human affairs, and the subject matter was the the 176 00:15:36.159 --> 00:15:39.799 you know, the dignity of the human being. If you 177 00:15:39.879 --> 00:15:44.799 accept that, you know, the Cold War primarily was in 178 00:15:44.879 --> 00:15:57.080 dialectical terms of the confrontation between you know, progressives and 179 00:15:57.080 --> 00:16:02.720 and left to Galeans who have very different ideas on 180 00:16:02.759 --> 00:16:06.360 the historical process as well as the human condition. But 181 00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:13.759 the point being that this constant discussion of how to 182 00:16:14.159 --> 00:16:23.919 mitigate alienation amiss not just the dehumanization of labor and 183 00:16:26.120 --> 00:16:34.759 patterns of life that you know surround labor, but also 184 00:16:34.879 --> 00:16:39.639 the proverbial death of God, which on the twentieth century 185 00:16:39.720 --> 00:16:50.240 was just taken for granted by intellectuals and playable theorists alike. 186 00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:59.600 That becomes all the more of a existential moral hazard 187 00:16:59.639 --> 00:17:05.279 real will charge. And it's not it's not as if 188 00:17:05.279 --> 00:17:11.920 these things have abated or left us since the the 189 00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:13.960 you know, the onset of globalism and the defeat of 190 00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:24.240 the communists. But it's the character of the the dialectical 191 00:17:24.319 --> 00:17:30.839 process has changed a bit because there's not that agonistic catalyst, 192 00:17:31.480 --> 00:17:39.880 if that makes any sense. But you know, so it's both. 193 00:17:40.160 --> 00:17:43.559 It's both the books both a period piece as well 194 00:17:43.599 --> 00:17:56.720 as you know, as well as a highly conceptual sci 195 00:17:56.799 --> 00:18:02.319 fi novella that remains relevant in discreet ways, you know. 196 00:18:02.359 --> 00:18:04.720 I think that's the real strength of it, you know, 197 00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:11.319 And that's and like before it went live, that the 198 00:18:11.319 --> 00:18:19.839 big difference is, you know, it deals with religious belief, 199 00:18:20.039 --> 00:18:22.960 or Aristot's religious belief, like for those who haven't read 200 00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:30.160 this story. There's this sort of he's both a Messianic figure, 201 00:18:30.319 --> 00:18:32.640 but he's also kind of like Billy Graham. He's like 202 00:18:32.680 --> 00:18:38.799 this media personality named Wilbur Mercer. And in the world 203 00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:43.920 of Blade Runner in the novel, there's this entire mythology 204 00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:50.640 around him and this whole redemption narrative about, you know, 205 00:18:50.720 --> 00:18:59.160 the the moral integrity of the human being and human 206 00:18:59.240 --> 00:19:05.160 agency there in which you know, sets man apart and 207 00:19:07.359 --> 00:19:16.160 allows for the possibility of salvation. And Deckard develops a 208 00:19:16.160 --> 00:19:26.720 certain fascination with this belief system as the story goes on, 209 00:19:27.599 --> 00:19:38.000 and uh, the the critics of Mercer, as well as 210 00:19:38.680 --> 00:19:44.440 the liberationist minded replicants, claim that Mercer's not even a 211 00:19:44.480 --> 00:19:50.519 real person. He's either an actor who's playing this character 212 00:19:51.240 --> 00:20:00.400 with this entirely imaginary biography, or he's some sort of 213 00:20:00.599 --> 00:20:05.200 projected a I or a hologram or something. And uh, 214 00:20:06.759 --> 00:20:12.960 you know, it raises the question too, if, uh, if 215 00:20:13.039 --> 00:20:24.599 Messianism or you know, true theological commitments are even possible 216 00:20:25.559 --> 00:20:28.599 if things are discussed in these terms, if there's a 217 00:20:28.599 --> 00:20:44.559 presumption of all human experiences is being potentially simulated, you know, 218 00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:54.000 psychological experiences, the very very fact of that potentiality, it 219 00:20:54.160 --> 00:21:02.200 might you know, it self neutralize the potential for authentic 220 00:21:02.559 --> 00:21:12.599 spiritual life once. In other words, there's a categorical emphasis 221 00:21:12.680 --> 00:21:20.200 or fixation on authenticity that means that that you know, 222 00:21:20.279 --> 00:21:23.039 God is already dead, at least in terms of you know, 223 00:21:23.119 --> 00:21:26.839 precedented religious belief in things. So there's a lot packed 224 00:21:26.839 --> 00:21:34.119 into that two hundred pages. That's that's the best place 225 00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:37.440 to start, I'd say, yes. 226 00:21:37.480 --> 00:21:41.519 So the opening to this book, we get kind of 227 00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:45.039 off the bat a number of key differences. So one 228 00:21:45.519 --> 00:21:53.160 decord is married, uh, one of it is, And we 229 00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:56.920 see the introduction of two things very quickly. One uh, 230 00:21:57.240 --> 00:22:00.119 the so called mood organ right, which is a divice 231 00:22:00.200 --> 00:22:04.759 that allows users to from apparently thousands of combinations finally 232 00:22:04.839 --> 00:22:08.920 tune their own mood synthetically. So, for instance, you know, 233 00:22:09.039 --> 00:22:12.079 when this starts off, they're arguing, and part of the 234 00:22:12.079 --> 00:22:14.759 reason they're arguing is that his wife has sort of 235 00:22:14.839 --> 00:22:19.079 voluntarily plunged herself into depression. This is something she's been 236 00:22:19.119 --> 00:22:21.640 more and more drawn to, and in the course of 237 00:22:21.680 --> 00:22:24.640 the two arguing, he's constantly telling her, well, why are 238 00:22:24.680 --> 00:22:27.039 you even doing this? This is stupid. Just make yourself 239 00:22:27.079 --> 00:22:31.200 in a good mood. Also, we get introduced to, as 240 00:22:31.200 --> 00:22:36.000 you've said, mercerism. The religious right in Mercerism is the 241 00:22:36.039 --> 00:22:40.519 empathy box, where seemingly all humans across the Solar System, 242 00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:44.039 both on Earth and on you know, the Martian colonies 243 00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:48.039 have this sort of psychic communion where they become part 244 00:22:48.279 --> 00:22:52.000 of sort of the martyrdom of mercer right. It's this 245 00:22:52.119 --> 00:22:55.640 repeated motif of him walking up a hill while being 246 00:22:55.880 --> 00:22:59.119 struck with stones. We learn that this experience is emotionally 247 00:22:59.160 --> 00:23:03.680 intense that old people occasionally die involved in it. But 248 00:23:03.960 --> 00:23:07.319 there are several things there. One, because this is a 249 00:23:07.359 --> 00:23:12.160 world after a nuclear apocalypse, the condition of the Earth 250 00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:16.160 is even worse than the movies. Possibly effectively, anyone who 251 00:23:16.200 --> 00:23:20.559 can get off planet has the world is just bathed 252 00:23:20.680 --> 00:23:24.759 in radioactive ash, and so it is physically difficult to 253 00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:29.599 remain on Earth. DECKERD, for example, where's a lead lined 254 00:23:29.680 --> 00:23:33.640 codpiece so that he can potentially bear children. We also 255 00:23:33.759 --> 00:23:38.039 learn that this level of radiation has produced what they 256 00:23:38.039 --> 00:23:43.119 call specials. There's different varieties ant heads, chicken heads, basically 257 00:23:43.119 --> 00:23:47.400 people who have been mutated. One of our main characters 258 00:23:47.440 --> 00:23:51.200 in fact, is mutated. His brain is gone. He was 259 00:23:51.240 --> 00:23:53.799 at one point a talentan mechanic, and now they just 260 00:23:53.839 --> 00:23:56.279 sort of keep him around. But also one of the 261 00:23:56.279 --> 00:24:01.519 interesting things about mercerism is an extremement, sort of an 262 00:24:01.519 --> 00:24:05.960 emotional spiritual level to animals. Many animals have been driven 263 00:24:06.039 --> 00:24:09.960 extinct by this nuclear war, and so everyone has everyone 264 00:24:10.039 --> 00:24:12.480 wants to have one. This is a major status game. 265 00:24:13.119 --> 00:24:16.519 And so after this fight with his wife, he goes 266 00:24:16.599 --> 00:24:19.160 up to the roof to talk with his neighbors. His 267 00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:23.640 neighbor has gotten or has a mayor, which is extraordinarily expensive. 268 00:24:23.799 --> 00:24:28.759 This mayor is genetically notable, and she's you know, she 269 00:24:28.839 --> 00:24:31.279 has a foal, right, which is going to be both 270 00:24:31.319 --> 00:24:35.960 extremely socially and monetarily beneficial to this man. While Deckard 271 00:24:36.160 --> 00:24:38.559 he has, as the title of the book says, an 272 00:24:38.599 --> 00:24:43.720 electric cheap a very convincing but still mechanical replica of 273 00:24:43.759 --> 00:24:48.319 a real animal. We learn that this is sort of shameful. 274 00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:51.720 It's sort of looked down on having an imitation animal 275 00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:54.480 and their pole systems set up so that no one 276 00:24:54.519 --> 00:24:57.640 else knows. For instance, a large part of the plot 277 00:24:57.680 --> 00:25:01.799 is driven forward by electric animal repairment, and the whole 278 00:25:01.839 --> 00:25:06.279 thing is set up to look like a veterinary hospital. Obviously, 279 00:25:06.319 --> 00:25:08.359 again you know, in this world where animals are very 280 00:25:09.359 --> 00:25:13.440 we're very rare and valuable, they're often stolen or you know, 281 00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:16.200 there's there's a lot of money to be made. Uh. 282 00:25:16.279 --> 00:25:18.319 So we learned a couple of things there. One that 283 00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:22.000 attachment to animals, which is a central driving sort of 284 00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:26.920 thrust into this plot. Uh, just kind of going through. 285 00:25:27.200 --> 00:25:31.279 The aformative empathy to it as well, Like that's important. 286 00:25:31.359 --> 00:25:39.039 That's you know, authentic biology or authentic biology is is 287 00:25:39.119 --> 00:25:48.160 uh is fetishized. But having any animal that you know 288 00:25:48.359 --> 00:25:52.680 one is attached to and that you care for, that's 289 00:25:54.319 --> 00:25:57.480 part of the fixation of performative empathy, and that's really 290 00:25:57.480 --> 00:25:59.960 what underlies mercerism has practiced. 291 00:26:00.039 --> 00:26:06.640 Yeah, go ahead, well exactly, and uh we see another 292 00:26:06.920 --> 00:26:10.359 kind of constant referra. I think it's called it's English's 293 00:26:10.400 --> 00:26:14.839 Animal Handbook, which is this sort of constantly public published Uh. 294 00:26:15.640 --> 00:26:17.599 I guess you could say sort of like market watch 295 00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:20.960 of animals that indicates you know, their prices which are 296 00:26:21.119 --> 00:26:25.039 many many times normal person salary, but also right, the 297 00:26:25.039 --> 00:26:28.400 status of if these example, these animal animals excuse me, 298 00:26:28.480 --> 00:26:29.680 are extinct or not. 299 00:26:30.559 --> 00:26:30.880 Uh. 300 00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:33.720 The inciting push to this is very similar to the 301 00:26:33.720 --> 00:26:37.680 film there's a group of Nexus six androids, some of 302 00:26:37.720 --> 00:26:40.319 the most advanced ever developed, that have made their way 303 00:26:40.359 --> 00:26:40.799 to Earth. 304 00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:41.920 Uh. 305 00:26:41.960 --> 00:26:44.480 There's a discussion with the police chief who's played very 306 00:26:44.480 --> 00:26:46.839 differently in this book than he is in the film. 307 00:26:47.440 --> 00:26:50.119 Or they go through you know, talking about you know, 308 00:26:50.200 --> 00:26:53.640 the void comptest, right, the way that they determine if 309 00:26:53.680 --> 00:26:59.359 someone is human or an android. They go to Seattle, 310 00:26:59.759 --> 00:27:04.240 right to the corporation where he meets Rachel, Rachel Rosen, 311 00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:08.039 who you may remember from the film. This is slightly different. 312 00:27:08.400 --> 00:27:12.160 It's sort of a similar hook where the Rosen Corporation 313 00:27:12.880 --> 00:27:17.440 is obviously they want to stay ahead of the detection 314 00:27:17.559 --> 00:27:21.799 technology for obvious reasons. And we learn a couple of things. One, 315 00:27:22.119 --> 00:27:27.880 the Void Comptest doesn't work on human either schizophrenics or psychopaths, 316 00:27:28.400 --> 00:27:31.039 so they begin to inject some doubt, have you ever 317 00:27:31.119 --> 00:27:35.319 retired a human? There are humans who are fully biological 318 00:27:35.640 --> 00:27:41.039 but lack empathy. Effectively, the Void Comptest is a test 319 00:27:41.079 --> 00:27:45.680 for empathy. And what's interesting is that, very similarly to 320 00:27:45.880 --> 00:27:49.920 the movie, right, there's a moment where he is supporting 321 00:27:49.960 --> 00:27:53.240 he tests Rachel. But what's interesting in this case is 322 00:27:53.319 --> 00:27:57.599 the first time he doesn't catch her. He goes through 323 00:27:58.319 --> 00:28:00.519 and when he gets a reading, they say, oh, we 324 00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:03.759 got you. We've got this on camera. She's just a 325 00:28:03.799 --> 00:28:06.640 schizophrenic or she's a psychopath, I can't remember. They have 326 00:28:06.720 --> 00:28:09.559 some explanation for it, and they're literally leaning on him. 327 00:28:09.559 --> 00:28:11.880 They try to bribe him with an owl, the same 328 00:28:12.200 --> 00:28:16.359 motif you'll note from the film, and then he figures 329 00:28:16.400 --> 00:28:19.880 her out very narrowly. He discovers, oh, wait, you actually 330 00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:24.599 are an android. And so the relationship between Decard and 331 00:28:24.680 --> 00:28:27.640 the corporation is different between the films, but also his 332 00:28:27.720 --> 00:28:32.599 relationship to Rachel is very different. Rachel is much as 333 00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:36.920 much less of a sympathetic character in the book instead 334 00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:41.720 of said of the film. So he goes to meet 335 00:28:41.960 --> 00:28:46.839 the first Android, and this android is apparently posing as 336 00:28:47.359 --> 00:28:50.319 a KGB official, right, a blade runner from the Soviet 337 00:28:50.440 --> 00:28:54.039 Union here obviously to see one of the first retirements 338 00:28:54.079 --> 00:28:59.359 of Nexas six. This new advanced android, unbeknownst to Deckard 339 00:28:59.359 --> 00:29:03.039 at least any this is the android in disguise. He 340 00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:07.119 tries to kill him. Deckord narrowly, you know, retires him, 341 00:29:07.559 --> 00:29:09.599 and then I believe I can't remember if it's right 342 00:29:09.640 --> 00:29:12.279 before right after Rachel calls him and basically says, you 343 00:29:12.400 --> 00:29:14.440 have to bring me on the next one. I want 344 00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:17.880 to be a part of this. I'm going over this 345 00:29:17.960 --> 00:29:21.480 quickly because I want to get to the introduction of 346 00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:26.519 I think perhaps one of the most interesting characters in 347 00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:28.119 the background. At the same time, this is sort of 348 00:29:28.119 --> 00:29:32.039 the b plot. Isidor, who is this you know, formerly 349 00:29:32.079 --> 00:29:35.519 intelligent mechanic who has become special due to radiation exposure, 350 00:29:35.799 --> 00:29:39.039 has met Ritz, one of the escape androids we don't 351 00:29:39.079 --> 00:29:44.160 know yet. Interesting thing about the difference in how androids 352 00:29:44.200 --> 00:29:48.400 are portrayed in this is they are much more sinister 353 00:29:48.720 --> 00:29:51.799 in the book than in the film. It is very 354 00:29:51.799 --> 00:29:55.480 clear that these androids do not have empathy. And the 355 00:29:55.480 --> 00:29:58.359 way this has shown with how PRIs is introduced is 356 00:29:58.400 --> 00:30:01.279 that again much like the film, this is depopulated earth, 357 00:30:01.559 --> 00:30:06.039 and so even in the city center, apartments are scarcely full, 358 00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:09.279 and there's these constant references to the fact that the 359 00:30:09.279 --> 00:30:12.960 earth is covered in junk, that there's other people's items, 360 00:30:13.160 --> 00:30:17.359 you know, their family photos, their furniture, all decaying around everyone, 361 00:30:17.519 --> 00:30:21.279 and so people live in largely empty apartments. His character Isidor, 362 00:30:22.160 --> 00:30:28.319 works at this animal repair facility and he runs into 363 00:30:28.359 --> 00:30:31.759 Priss he's simple minded, he lives by himself, he's very lonely. 364 00:30:31.960 --> 00:30:35.440 But when he encounters her, she's naked to the waist 365 00:30:36.079 --> 00:30:39.319 but has no sort of shame or shock about that whatsoever. 366 00:30:39.640 --> 00:30:42.799 Described very alien even in the way that she interacts 367 00:30:42.799 --> 00:30:47.440 with him. She lies to his face constantly, clearly taking 368 00:30:47.480 --> 00:30:50.480 advantage of him without really a second thought. There is 369 00:30:50.559 --> 00:30:53.680 no empathy in the way that she interacts with this 370 00:30:53.960 --> 00:30:57.839 simple minded man who clearly is lonely. And that's sort 371 00:30:57.839 --> 00:31:01.240 of the b plot going on in the background. And 372 00:31:01.279 --> 00:31:04.440 I'm skipping over a lot here, not because it's not important, 373 00:31:04.440 --> 00:31:06.240 but just because there's a character that I want to 374 00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:08.799 talk about, because he's, in my mind, perhaps the most 375 00:31:08.799 --> 00:31:13.160 interesting part of this. So Deckard goes on to sort 376 00:31:13.160 --> 00:31:17.400 of the next the next bounty he has to collect, 377 00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:21.119 which is this android who is serving as an opera singer. 378 00:31:21.480 --> 00:31:24.680 She's described as very talented, sort of hiding in plain sight. 379 00:31:25.319 --> 00:31:29.880 But when he goes into her dressing room a film 380 00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:33.119 or a scene we see sort of echoed in the film, 381 00:31:33.720 --> 00:31:36.599 he's arrested. Doesn't go well. She basically says, hey, this 382 00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:40.599 pervert's in my room, and an officer comes to arrest him. 383 00:31:41.400 --> 00:31:44.559 Now Deckard works with the police. He doesn't know this officer. 384 00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:48.000 They're taking him to a police station he's never heard of, 385 00:31:48.640 --> 00:31:51.200 but he goes along with it, and when he arrives there, 386 00:31:51.279 --> 00:31:54.920 he realizes that this is sort of an alternate police 387 00:31:54.920 --> 00:31:59.799 station run by androids. And when he's there he meets 388 00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:04.000 another blade Runner, another bounty hunter who's working for these androids. 389 00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:04.680 Uh. 390 00:32:05.640 --> 00:32:07.759 Do you want to speak about this character, Thomas, because 391 00:32:07.759 --> 00:32:09.200 I think that this character is one of the more 392 00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:11.160 interesting uh in the book. 393 00:32:12.079 --> 00:32:22.559 But also the faux police station that's the the end 394 00:32:22.599 --> 00:32:28.279 of these sorts of intrigues and intrigues. Like some people 395 00:32:28.400 --> 00:32:35.279 view that is a plot device like John McCurry might employ, 396 00:32:37.079 --> 00:32:40.799 just put to like a science fiction setting. That's not 397 00:32:41.559 --> 00:32:47.160 really what h Philip K. Dick is trying to convey, 398 00:32:47.920 --> 00:32:56.240 you know. The there's a that that's that's a recurring theme, 399 00:32:56.279 --> 00:32:59.440 not just into Androids dream of Electric Sheep, but in 400 00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:09.720 in most of most of his major works. And it's uh, 401 00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:13.960