1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:05,320 Speaker 1: Usually when we talk about government secrets, there's this implicit 2 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:06,679 promise of a payoff at the. 3 00:00:06,719 --> 00:00:08,759 Speaker 2: End, right final answer exactly. 4 00:00:08,839 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 1: We're sort of conditioned by movies, by books to expect 5 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:15,320 that grand reveal. You know, the scene the hero breaks 6 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:18,800 into some dusty archive, finds the file stamped top. 7 00:00:18,559 --> 00:00:20,440 Speaker 2: Secret, close the dust off. 8 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 1: And boom, there it is the answer key, the smoking gun, 9 00:00:24,719 --> 00:00:28,480 the alien autopsy photos, whatever it is, the big secret 10 00:00:28,519 --> 00:00:29,039 is revealed. 11 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 2: It's the narrative closure that we all crave. It's a 12 00:00:31,519 --> 00:00:34,399 very human thing. I think we want to believe that, 13 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:36,200 even if the public is in the dark, there's a 14 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:37,479 competent adult in. 15 00:00:37,439 --> 00:00:39,719 Speaker 1: The room somewhere, someone who knows what's going on. 16 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:42,200 Speaker 2: Yes, we want the conspiracy to be organized, to have 17 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:44,600 a plan. There's a strange comfort in. 18 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,399 Speaker 1: That idea, a very strange comfort. But what happens when 19 00:00:47,399 --> 00:00:50,359 that top secret stamp is finally lifted, when the Freedom 20 00:00:50,359 --> 00:00:53,359 of Information Act request finally goes through, and the big 21 00:00:53,399 --> 00:00:56,280 secret revealed inside is just we have no idea. 22 00:00:56,479 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 2: Well, that is often infinitely more terrifying than a cover up. 23 00:01:00,079 --> 00:01:04,359 A cover up implies a strategy, it implies control. 24 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 1: And these files suggest the opposite. 25 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 2: Complete chaos, confusion, and frankly, a terrifying lack of control. 26 00:01:11,719 --> 00:01:14,319 It suggests that the people behind the curtain were just 27 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,120 as baffled or maybe even as reckless as the rest of. 28 00:01:17,159 --> 00:01:21,079 Speaker 1: Us, and that is absolutely the vibe for today. 29 00:01:22,359 --> 00:01:25,519 Speaker 2: Welcome everyone to thrilling Threads. I am so ready to 30 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:27,799 get into this because the stack of documents we have 31 00:01:27,879 --> 00:01:30,640 today is and I really don't say this lightly, it's haunting. 32 00:01:30,879 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: It is. 33 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 2: We're not talking about Reddit rumors here, We're not doing 34 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:36,680 four Chan leaks or tin foil hat theories. We are 35 00:01:36,719 --> 00:01:39,400 diving straight into the gray zone of history. 36 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 1: This is all official, all of it. 37 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, we're looking at confirmed facts, release documents, and official 38 00:01:44,439 --> 00:01:46,599 admissions from the powers that bee that are I mean, 39 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:48,519 they're stranger than any fiction I've ever read. 40 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 1: And I think it's important to set the stage here. 41 00:01:50,519 --> 00:01:53,879 The documents we're discussing today, they range from the bottom 42 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:57,120 of the Greenland ice sheets wow, to the edges of 43 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:01,040 our atmosphere, and even into the darkest recesses of the 44 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:04,439 human mind. But the common thread isn't just mystery. 45 00:02:04,719 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 2: It's a profound lack of oversight. It's about the hard 46 00:02:07,719 --> 00:02:11,479 limits of our technology and just the terrifying reality of 47 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:14,039 what has been done in the name of national security 48 00:02:14,319 --> 00:02:15,520 when no one was watching. 49 00:02:15,879 --> 00:02:18,159 Speaker 1: It is a heavy lineup. We're going to be looking 50 00:02:18,199 --> 00:02:22,120 at the official UFO investigations where the government basically just 51 00:02:22,199 --> 00:02:24,479 threw up its hands and said we give up. 52 00:02:24,599 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 2: Then there's the nuclear city, a. 53 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:31,599 Speaker 1: Nuclear city buried and currently failing under the ice in Greenland. 54 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:35,000 We have mind control experiments where the only real proof 55 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:39,520 left is stack of financial receipts because the rest was shredded. 56 00:02:39,759 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 2: And perhaps the most sobering of all, a doomsday machine that, 57 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:45,599 for all we know, might still be listening, just waiting 58 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:47,280 for a signal to end the world. 59 00:02:47,479 --> 00:02:49,599 Speaker 1: So just a light afternoon chat. 60 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:51,719 Speaker 2: Though, Oh absolutely, just the usual light reading for the 61 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:52,680 end of civilization. 62 00:02:52,719 --> 00:02:54,479 Speaker 1: All right, let's unpack this. I think we have to 63 00:02:54,479 --> 00:02:58,520 start with the skies because for decades the cultural narrative 64 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:02,639 the official government on UFOs was pretty much just swamp 65 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:03,680 gas and weather balloons. 66 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:06,719 Speaker 2: Oh completely. If you saw something, you were mistaken, or 67 00:03:06,719 --> 00:03:08,960 you were drunk, or you were looking at the planet Venus. 68 00:03:09,199 --> 00:03:10,639 Speaker 1: That was always the big one Venus. 69 00:03:10,759 --> 00:03:13,719 Speaker 2: Publicly, yes, that was the stance. Nothing to see here, 70 00:03:13,879 --> 00:03:17,479 move along. It was a clear strategy of dismissal, and 71 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,680 it was designed to quell any potential panic. I mean, 72 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:22,919 if you can't explain it, you ridicule it. 73 00:03:23,159 --> 00:03:25,199 Speaker 1: But then we have Project blue Book. This was the 74 00:03:25,319 --> 00:03:29,360 United States Air Forces massive and I mean massive program 75 00:03:29,439 --> 00:03:33,000 to investigate UFOs. It ran from nineteen fifty two all 76 00:03:33,039 --> 00:03:36,319 the way to nineteen sixty nine. And I think people 77 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:38,680 know the name Blue Book, you know it's in pop culture, 78 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,199 but they don't realize the sheer scale of the data 79 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:43,560 involved here. This wasn't two guys in a basement with 80 00:03:43,599 --> 00:03:44,120 a phone. 81 00:03:44,159 --> 00:03:47,319 Speaker 2: It was huge. They investigated twelve thousand, six hundred and 82 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:51,560 eighteen separate sightings over that period. Now, to be fair 83 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:53,759 to the skeptics, and we should be grounded here, the 84 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:56,719 vast majority of those were in fact identified. Sure, there 85 00:03:56,719 --> 00:04:00,599 were planes, they were stars, experimental aircraft, clouds, sometimes just 86 00:04:00,639 --> 00:04:02,759 straight up hoaxes. The Air Force did its job in 87 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,280 explaining most of them. They closed the book on thousands 88 00:04:05,319 --> 00:04:06,319 and thousands of cases. 89 00:04:06,639 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: But and this is the big butt. This is where 90 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:11,360 it gets really interesting. When they shut the program down 91 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:15,400 in nineteen sixty nine, the public message was we figured 92 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:19,160 it out, there's no threat, go home. Case closed but 93 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:21,439 if you dig into the actual files, the ones released 94 00:04:21,439 --> 00:04:24,639 to the National Archives, there's this stubborn little number that 95 00:04:24,639 --> 00:04:26,759 they couldn't just scrub away, seven. 96 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 2: Oh one, the unidentified seven oh one, right, And. 97 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 1: I feel like we need to define unidentified in this 98 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:34,600 context because a skeptic might hear that and say, oh, 99 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:37,800 unidentified just means someone saw a blurry light and couldn't 100 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:39,519 tell if it was a sessna or a meteor. 101 00:04:39,639 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 2: And that's a crucial distinction to make. In the context 102 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:48,000 of Blue Book, unidentified did not mean insufficient data. It 103 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:49,560 meant the exact opposite. 104 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 1: It meant they had the data. 105 00:04:50,879 --> 00:04:53,199 Speaker 2: They had the data, they had credible witnesses, they had 106 00:04:53,199 --> 00:04:55,879 the trajectory, and it still didn't make any sense. These 107 00:04:55,879 --> 00:04:59,920 weren't vague reports from you know, random people backyard stargazing. 108 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:03,519 A significant number of these reports came from military pilots 109 00:05:03,519 --> 00:05:04,680 and radar operators. 110 00:05:04,879 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 1: And these are professionals. These are people whose entire career, 111 00:05:09,199 --> 00:05:14,879 whose life depends on correctly identifying silhouettes in the sky. 112 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,160 If you're a fighter pilot, you have to know if 113 00:05:18,199 --> 00:05:20,879 that dot on the horizon is a Russian meg or 114 00:05:20,879 --> 00:05:23,040 a commercial airliner exactly. 115 00:05:23,199 --> 00:05:25,439 Speaker 2: I mean if a military pilot can't tell the difference 116 00:05:25,439 --> 00:05:28,560 between a weather balloon and an aircraft, they really shouldn't 117 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:30,279 be flying a multimillion dollar jet. 118 00:05:30,399 --> 00:05:32,720 Speaker 1: So when these people said, I don't know what that is, 119 00:05:33,519 --> 00:05:35,480 it carried immense weight, it did. 120 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:38,600 Speaker 2: And the descriptions in these seven hundred and one cases 121 00:05:38,639 --> 00:05:41,480 are remarkably consistent, and they're just baffling. 122 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:43,759 Speaker 1: So what kind of characteristics are we talking about here? 123 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,759 I have to imagine it's more than just it was shiny. 124 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 2: Oh way more. We're talking about what are now called 125 00:05:48,959 --> 00:05:51,480 the five observables, a term that gets used a lot 126 00:05:51,519 --> 00:05:53,560 in modern UAP studies, but you can see the roots 127 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:57,040 of it way back then, like what sudden instantaneous acceleration. 128 00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:59,360 We're talking about going from a dead stock from much 129 00:05:59,439 --> 00:06:01,279 yer to my ten in a second. 130 00:06:01,199 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 1: Which from a physics standpoint is a huge problem. Right 131 00:06:04,639 --> 00:06:07,959 the G forces alone, I remember reading about GOCG force 132 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:12,399 induced loss of consciousness. Humans can handle what maybe nine 133 00:06:12,439 --> 00:06:13,959 g's in a suit for a few seconds. 134 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 2: Maybe a highly trained pilot in a G suit can 135 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,959 handle nine g's for a few seconds before passing out. 136 00:06:21,399 --> 00:06:24,279 But the structural limit of the aircraft itself is also 137 00:06:24,399 --> 00:06:25,399 a major factor. 138 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: The plane would fall apart. 139 00:06:26,759 --> 00:06:29,720 Speaker 2: The wings would rip right off the airframe. If a 140 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:33,000 human pilot tried to make a perfect ninety degree turn 141 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,959 while moving at supersonic speeds, the inertia the g forces 142 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:41,000 would turn their internal organs into soup. These objects were doing. 143 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,399 Speaker 1: It effortlessly, and they're just hovering. 144 00:06:43,079 --> 00:06:46,399 Speaker 2: Hovering in mid air with no visible engines, no exhaust plumes, 145 00:06:46,439 --> 00:06:49,560 no wings providing lift, just sitting there, silent. 146 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:51,759 Speaker 1: And it wasn't just what people were seeing, right, That's 147 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:54,399 the part that always prevents me from just dismissing this 148 00:06:54,439 --> 00:06:57,639 as mass hysteria or you know, some kind of optical illusion. 149 00:06:57,800 --> 00:06:58,879 Speaker 2: No, it wasn't just visual. 150 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:00,959 Speaker 1: It's one thing to see something weird. It's another thing 151 00:07:01,079 --> 00:07:02,920 entirely when the technology backs you up. 152 00:07:03,199 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 2: That is the key differentiator In a lot of these 153 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:09,000 seven oh one cases. Ground radar was picking up the 154 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:12,240 exact same objects that pilots were seeing. 155 00:07:11,959 --> 00:07:15,279 Speaker 1: With their eyes, so you have visual and electronic conformation. 156 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 2: You can't just wave that away as a reflection or 157 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:21,319 a hallucination. When the radar scope is pinging the same 158 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:25,759 anomaly at the same coordinates, with the same impossible flight characteristics. 159 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:29,160 The technology was confirming the witness accounts. 160 00:07:29,759 --> 00:07:33,399 Speaker 1: So you have the Air Force officially publicly saying these 161 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:37,079 cases show no thread and no evidence of advanced technology. 162 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:39,959 But then you read the internal file and it's just 163 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:41,560 an investigator hitting a brick wall. 164 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 2: The files literally show investigators running into dead ends and 165 00:07:44,639 --> 00:07:47,759 having to stamp it unidentified because they had no other choice. 166 00:07:47,759 --> 00:07:48,839 They could not explain it. 167 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: So Blue Book didn't prove that little green men were visiting, 168 00:07:51,879 --> 00:07:52,399 not at all. 169 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:56,399 Speaker 2: But it certainly didn't disprove that something extraordinary was happening 170 00:07:56,439 --> 00:07:59,160 in our skies. It just proved the government couldn't identify it. 171 00:07:59,439 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: And speaking of extraordinary, we have to talk about the 172 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:06,959 summer of nineteen fifty two, the Washington, DC incident. This one, 173 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,240 it just feels like a movie script. If you wrote 174 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:11,879 this today, people would say it's two on the nose. 175 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 2: It really does feel cinematic. July nineteen fifty two. And 176 00:08:14,839 --> 00:08:17,160 this wasn't happening out in the Nevada desert or over 177 00:08:17,199 --> 00:08:19,480 the empty Atlantic where no one was watching. This was 178 00:08:19,519 --> 00:08:22,040 over the capital of the United States. 179 00:08:21,759 --> 00:08:24,199 Speaker 1: Over the White House, the Capitol build, the. 180 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:26,759 Speaker 2: Most restricted airspace on the planet. 181 00:08:26,839 --> 00:08:29,439 Speaker 1: The timeline is just wild. It starts on a Saturday night, 182 00:08:29,639 --> 00:08:34,840 July nineteenth, unidentified objects appear on the radar screens at Washington. 183 00:08:34,519 --> 00:08:37,279 Speaker 2: National Airport, which is now Reagan National right. 184 00:08:37,279 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 1: And at the same time they pop up at Andrews 185 00:08:39,879 --> 00:08:40,519 Air Force Bace. 186 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 2: Simultaneous radar confirmation from two separate highly secure locations. And 187 00:08:45,759 --> 00:08:49,200 the air traffic controllers, these are seasoned professionals. They were 188 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:53,000 watching these blips move in ways that just defied physics. 189 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 1: What kind of speeds are we talking? 190 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 2: They were clocking them at speeds over seven thousand miles 191 00:08:57,240 --> 00:08:59,600 per hour. Then they would just stop dead, go from 192 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:02,519 thousands of miles an hour to a complete standstill in 193 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:03,159 an instant. 194 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 1: So naturally panic sets in. I mean, this is the 195 00:09:06,039 --> 00:09:10,039 absolute height of the Cold War. The fear wasn't necessarily Martians, 196 00:09:10,279 --> 00:09:13,159 it was Russians. It was a potential Soviet bomber. 197 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 2: That was the immediate concern. 198 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 1: So they scrambled the jets and they did this on 199 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:18,000 two separate weekends. 200 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:21,639 Speaker 2: They did f ninety four starfire interceptors go up. And 201 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:23,720 this is where it turns from a simple sighting into 202 00:09:23,759 --> 00:09:26,080 this bizarre game of cat and mouse. 203 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:29,039 Speaker 1: The reports are just incredible. They say, the objects which 204 00:09:29,039 --> 00:09:31,399 just vanished from radar the moment the jets got close, 205 00:09:31,519 --> 00:09:32,080 and then. 206 00:09:32,159 --> 00:09:34,759 Speaker 2: As soon as the jets turned back to base low 207 00:09:34,879 --> 00:09:36,720 on fuel, the objects would reappear. 208 00:09:36,879 --> 00:09:40,039 Speaker 1: It feels intelligent, it feels reactive, like they knew the 209 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:40,879 jets were coming. 210 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:43,679 Speaker 2: It certainly suggests a high level of awareness. And it 211 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:47,039 wasn't just radar. Civilian pilots in the area were also 212 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:51,240 calling in reporting these strange bright lights hovering and moving 213 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:53,480 erratically in that same restricted airspace. 214 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:56,679 Speaker 1: You can just imagine the tension in the Pentagon. The 215 00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:00,679 capital is potentially vulnerable to a completely un. 216 00:10:00,279 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 2: Force, so they do something unprecedented. The Pentagon holds its 217 00:10:04,519 --> 00:10:07,039 biggest press conference since the end of World War Two. 218 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 1: I can just picture that room thick with smoke, flash 219 00:10:10,519 --> 00:10:14,200 bulbs popping everywhere, generals sweating under the lights. And what 220 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:15,600 do they tell the American public? 221 00:10:15,799 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 2: Temperature inversions? 222 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 1: The weather? Yeah, was the weather? 223 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:24,519 Speaker 2: Essentially, yes, they claimed the unusual atmospheric conditions, a layer 224 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:27,679 of warm air on top of cool air, were causing 225 00:10:27,799 --> 00:10:31,120 radar beams to bend and hit ground objects like cars 226 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:33,759 or buildings, creating these ghost blips on the. 227 00:10:33,759 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 1: Screen, which, Okay, I know radar can be finicky. But 228 00:10:39,159 --> 00:10:41,960 the files show that the people who should know, the 229 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:44,440 people in the room, the radar operators, the scientists, they 230 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:45,720 weren't buying it for a second. 231 00:10:45,879 --> 00:10:49,039 Speaker 2: No, they were not. Temperature and versions were a known phenomenon. 232 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:51,840 Radar operators knew exactly what those look like on their scopes. 233 00:10:51,879 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 1: What do they look like? 234 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 2: They're messy, they're like static, they're diffuse returns. They don't 235 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:59,679 typically fly in organize formations, they don't react to military 236 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:04,240 innerc and they certainly don't appear as solid, coordinated targets 237 00:11:04,279 --> 00:11:07,039 across multiple different radar systems simultaneously. 238 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: It's the classic don't look up moment, isn't it. The 239 00:11:10,159 --> 00:11:12,759 government is telling you it's the weather, but the pilots 240 00:11:12,759 --> 00:11:15,639 are on record saying, no, I saw it move. It 241 00:11:15,759 --> 00:11:19,039 just highlights that huge gap between what's really happening and 242 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:20,559 what we're being told is happening. 243 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:22,759 Speaker 2: And that gap only gets wider when we jump forward 244 00:11:22,759 --> 00:11:24,919 in time, Because if you think the nineteen fifty two 245 00:11:24,919 --> 00:11:28,919 incident is strange, the modern updates to this whole phenomenon 246 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:30,120 are even more perplexed. Oh. 247 00:11:30,159 --> 00:11:33,799 Speaker 1: Absolutely, we have to fast forward to nineteen ninety. Let's 248 00:11:33,799 --> 00:11:36,320 go across the Pond to the UK. The Calvine photo. 249 00:11:36,639 --> 00:11:38,440 This is a personal favorite of mine just because it 250 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:40,519 feels so tangible. It's not a blip on a screen. 251 00:11:40,799 --> 00:11:43,919 Speaker 2: This is a fascinating case because it involves actual physical 252 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:48,200 evidence that was actively suppressed for decades, not just witness testimony. 253 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:52,759 Speaker 1: So the story goes August fourth, nineteen ninety two, hikers 254 00:11:52,799 --> 00:11:56,000 are out walking near Calvine in Scotland. They look up 255 00:11:56,120 --> 00:12:00,360 and they see this massive, silent, diamond shaped object just 256 00:12:00,519 --> 00:12:03,200 hanging in the sky. And it's not alone. 257 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 2: No, there's a military jet, a harrier jump jet, circling it. 258 00:12:07,519 --> 00:12:10,759 And that detail is crucial because it gives you an 259 00:12:10,799 --> 00:12:13,279 immediate sense of scale. You know how big a harrier is. 260 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:15,720 This thing was huge. It was estimated at about one 261 00:12:15,799 --> 00:12:16,799 hundred feet across. 262 00:12:17,039 --> 00:12:19,879 Speaker 1: The hikers, who were chefs at a local hotel, they 263 00:12:19,879 --> 00:12:22,919 snapped six photos. They send them to the local newspaper, 264 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:26,840 the Daily Record. The newspaper does what any good newspaper does. 265 00:12:27,039 --> 00:12:29,440 They reach out to the Ministry of Defense for a comment, 266 00:12:29,799 --> 00:12:30,240 and then. 267 00:12:30,639 --> 00:12:34,559 Speaker 2: Poof the photos vanish. The newspaper hands over the negatives 268 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:37,879 and the prints to the mod and they just disappear 269 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:41,559 into the archives. For decades, the Calvine incident was just 270 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:44,879 a legend. It only existed in Witten mentions and declassified files. 271 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:47,440 The officials admitted the photos were real, but they claimed 272 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:49,519 they didn't have them anymore. They were lost. 273 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:52,399 Speaker 1: Until twenty twenty two. Thirty two years later. 274 00:12:52,279 --> 00:12:54,799 Speaker 2: A former Ministry of Defense press officer, a man named 275 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:57,279 Craig Lindsay, had kept a copy of the original print. 276 00:12:57,279 --> 00:12:59,519 He'd held onto it all that time, and he finally 277 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:02,799 released it to the public and the images it's striking. 278 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:06,320 Speaker 1: I've stared at this image for hours. It's unsettling. It's 279 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:11,000 this incredibly sharp edged, metallic looking diamond shaped thing. There 280 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,399 are no wings, no tail, no visible engines or exhaust. 281 00:13:14,759 --> 00:13:16,679 It doesn't look like a plane. It doesn't look like 282 00:13:16,799 --> 00:13:18,080 any drawn have ever seen. 283 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 2: It doesn't match any known aircraft from nineteen ninety or 284 00:13:20,879 --> 00:13:24,759 frankly from today. For years, the Aurora spyplane theory was 285 00:13:24,799 --> 00:13:28,240 thrown around, that this was some secret US project, but 286 00:13:28,279 --> 00:13:31,399 that technology has never been confirmed to exist, and the 287 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,440 aerodynamics of a giant diamond shape at high speed are 288 00:13:34,799 --> 00:13:36,080 problematic to say the. 289 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:38,759 Speaker 1: Least, and the official stance from the UK government remains 290 00:13:38,799 --> 00:13:41,840 baffling to this day. They admit the photo is real, 291 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,840 they've confirmed it's not a hoax, but they continue to 292 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:48,840 say it posed no threat and therefore didn't need further investigation. 293 00:13:49,159 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 2: No threat. A massive one hundred foot unidentified diamond is 294 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:56,320 hovering over your country with one of your military jets 295 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:58,360 suckling it. How is that not a threat or at 296 00:13:58,399 --> 00:14:00,000 least a major flight safety issue. 297 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 1: It just raises the obvious question. If it's not ours, 298 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:04,960 and it's not the Russians, and it's not a threat, 299 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:06,440 then what in the world is it? 300 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 2: And that question brings us right up to the present day. 301 00:14:09,759 --> 00:14:13,840 The twenty twenty and twenty twenty one uap declassifications from 302 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:17,200 the US Department of Defense. This felt like a huge 303 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:18,080 cultural shift. 304 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:20,279 Speaker 1: It was a paradigm shift. For the first time, the 305 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:23,320 US government wasn't just releasing dusty old files from fifty 306 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:27,759 years ago. They were officially releasing recent high resolution gun 307 00:14:27,799 --> 00:14:31,759 camera footage from Navy fighter jets, the tic TAC videos, 308 00:14:31,799 --> 00:14:34,559 the gimbal video, the go Fast video exactly. 309 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 2: And this isn't just pilot testimony anymore. We're talking about 310 00:14:37,519 --> 00:14:41,080 fel IR forward looking infrared cameras and advanced an ASKEW 311 00:14:41,279 --> 00:14:45,600 two twenty eight ATFLIR targeting pods. These are encounters where 312 00:14:45,639 --> 00:14:48,679 objects are recorded dropping from space from eighty thousand feet 313 00:14:48,759 --> 00:14:50,480 down to sea level in less than a second. 314 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: Again, the physics just don't make sense. It's the pingpong 315 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:55,759 ball and a glass analogy. I've heard pilots use the 316 00:14:55,879 --> 00:14:59,399 energy required the g forces. Nothing we have can do that. 317 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,279 Speaker 2: A gimbal video you can hear the pilots reacting in 318 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:05,120 real time. Look at that thing, dude, it's rotating against 319 00:15:05,159 --> 00:15:08,720 the wind. These objects were recorded hovering motionless and hurricane 320 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,559 force winds, then moving against those winds, all with no 321 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:13,000 visible means of propulsion. 322 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 1: And the government's admission here was so different, wasn't it. 323 00:15:15,759 --> 00:15:20,200 They didn't fall back on swamp gas or temperature inversions. 324 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 2: No. In the preliminary assessment that was released by the 325 00:15:23,279 --> 00:15:26,080 Office of the Director of National Intelligence, they were very, 326 00:15:26,159 --> 00:15:28,919 very careful with their words. They didn't claim it was aliens, 327 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:33,440 but they explicitly admitted that there are unidentified aerial phenomena 328 00:15:33,679 --> 00:15:38,559 UAPs in restricted military airspace, sometimes right near our aircraft carriers, 329 00:15:38,799 --> 00:15:40,000 that they cannot. 330 00:15:39,679 --> 00:15:43,279 Speaker 1: Identify, which feels like a massive public admission of vulnerability. 331 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 2: It's a security nightmare. If that is foreign technology, if 332 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:51,039 China or Russia has somehow leapfrogged us that significantly in 333 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:55,639 propulsion and material science, it's a strategic disaster. It means 334 00:15:55,679 --> 00:15:58,039 our entire air defense system could be obsolete. 335 00:15:58,080 --> 00:15:59,919 Speaker 1: But if it isn't foreign technology. 336 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:01,559 Speaker 2: And we are right back to the unidentified seven oh 337 00:16:01,679 --> 00:16:03,559 one from Project Blue Book, what is it? 338 00:16:03,559 --> 00:16:07,159 Speaker 1: It connects back so perfectly. We have better sensors, better cameras, 339 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,919 better radar, more data than ever before, and we still 340 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:13,559 have the exact same answer they had in nineteen sixty nine. 341 00:16:13,639 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 2: We don't know, And that profound unknown isn't just in 342 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:21,120 the sky. Sometimes the most shocking secrets are buried right 343 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:24,639 beneath our feet, or in this next case, buried deep 344 00:16:24,679 --> 00:16:25,440 beneath the ice. 345 00:16:25,639 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: Oh, this story absolutely blows my mind. We're going deep 346 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:31,279 into the Cold War underground now, Project ice Worm. 347 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:34,879 Speaker 2: This is such a classic example of boundless Cold War 348 00:16:34,919 --> 00:16:39,480 ambition colliding head on with the unforgiving reality of nature. 349 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 1: The setting is Camp Century, Greenland, nineteen fifty nine. Publicly, 350 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:47,480 the US Army taels world, Hey, we're building a peaceful 351 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:50,000 science research station under the ice. We're going to study 352 00:16:50,039 --> 00:16:53,080 snow cores and weather patterns. It sounds so wholesome. 353 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 2: It was a fantastic cover story, and to be fair, 354 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,320 they did do some real science there. The first ice 355 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:03,000 core samples that helped us understand ancient climate and atmospheric 356 00:17:03,039 --> 00:17:05,319 conditions actually came from Camp Centry, So the. 357 00:17:05,279 --> 00:17:09,160 Speaker 1: Documents that were declassified much later revealed the true secret purpose. 358 00:17:09,559 --> 00:17:12,400 It was all a cover for something called Project ice Worm. 359 00:17:12,279 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 2: Which sounds like a villain's diabolical plan in a Jamis 360 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:16,119 Bond movie. 361 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:18,799 Speaker 1: It really does. The plan was to use these new 362 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:23,440 tunnel boring machines to dig thousands of miles of tunnels 363 00:17:23,519 --> 00:17:26,640 under the Greenland ice sheet, and the purpose of those 364 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:30,720 tunnels was to hide up to six hundred nuclear missiles. 365 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 2: Six hundred nuclear missiles in tunnels deep inside a glacier. 366 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:39,079 Speaker 1: The strategic idea was all about proximity and survivability. From Greenland, 367 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:41,640 they could strike the Soviet Union with almost no warning 368 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:44,920 time The ice would hide the missile sites, protect them 369 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:47,440 from a Soviet counterstrike, and a plan to move the 370 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:50,680 missiles around on a subterranean rail system so the Soviets 371 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:52,160 could never accurately target them. 372 00:17:52,279 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 2: A nuclear shell game under the ice. 373 00:17:54,559 --> 00:17:56,799 Speaker 1: So they build this city. They use a technique called 374 00:17:56,799 --> 00:17:59,279 cut and cover, basically digging these huge trenches in the 375 00:17:59,319 --> 00:18:02,599 ice and then covering them with arched steel roofs. They 376 00:18:02,599 --> 00:18:04,720 have a portable nuclear reactor down there at the PM 377 00:18:04,759 --> 00:18:06,559 two A to provide all the power. 378 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 2: And it was a real city. They had barracks for 379 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,960 over two hundred soldiers, hospital, a movie theater, a library, 380 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:13,799 even a chapel, all under the ice. 381 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:17,119 Speaker 1: It was an incredible engineering marvel. But there was one 382 00:18:17,759 --> 00:18:20,759 massive fatal flaw on their plan that they just didn't 383 00:18:20,759 --> 00:18:22,960 account for mature the ice itself. 384 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:26,440 Speaker 2: The Army engineers assumed the ice sheet was static. They 385 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,599 treated it like a solid block of geology, like granite 386 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:32,359 that they could just bore into and it would stay put. 387 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:36,480 But glaciers are not static, they are visco elastic. They moved. 388 00:18:36,559 --> 00:18:37,839 Speaker 1: They're rivers of ice. 389 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:41,559 Speaker 2: Slow moving rivers of ice. The Greenland ice sheet is 390 00:18:41,759 --> 00:18:46,200 constantly slowly flowing from the center toward the coast, and 391 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:48,799 this movement put incredible pressure on the base. 392 00:18:49,079 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 1: So the tunnels started shrinking. 393 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:54,880 Speaker 2: Exactly, the ice started deforming and crushing the tunnels. It 394 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:57,519 twisted the rail lines they had built for the missiles. 395 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:01,200 The walls that the barracks started closing in. It became 396 00:19:01,279 --> 00:19:03,559 a constant losing battle against. 397 00:19:03,319 --> 00:19:04,839 Speaker 1: The ice, a maintenance nightmare. 398 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,599 Speaker 2: They were constantly having to shave back the ice with 399 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:10,200 Swiss made rotary plows just to keep the walls from 400 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:11,200 crushing the buildings. 401 00:19:11,279 --> 00:19:14,160 Speaker 1: So by nineteen sixty seven they finally realize, Okay, this 402 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:15,839 is never gonna work, and they just leave. 403 00:19:16,039 --> 00:19:18,799 Speaker 2: They abandoned the entire base. They did take the nuclear 404 00:19:18,839 --> 00:19:22,240 reactor core out, thankfully, but they left almost everything else behind, 405 00:19:22,279 --> 00:19:25,680 the entire infrastructure. And their assumption was what their assumption 406 00:19:25,839 --> 00:19:29,079 was that the constant snowfall would just keep falling bury 407 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:31,920 the base deeper and deeper and entumbit forever as a 408 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:33,400 frozen time capsule. 409 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:34,759 Speaker 1: Of the Cold War, Out of sight, out of. 410 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 2: Mind, precisely. But again they completely underestimated nature. And this 411 00:19:39,519 --> 00:19:42,039 is where the story becomes urgent and relevant for. 412 00:19:42,039 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 1: Us today because of climate change. 413 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:46,640 Speaker 2: Correct studies that came out in twenty sixteen and have 414 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:50,039 been updated since, confirmed that with the accelerated melting of 415 00:19:50,079 --> 00:19:54,039 the Greenland ice sheet, Camp Century is not being buried deeper, 416 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:55,279 it's moving closer to. 417 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 1: The surface that was gonna be exposed. 418 00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 2: It is, and it's not just empty tunnels and old 419 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:00,160 buildings down there. 420 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:02,200 Speaker 1: What exactly did they leave behind. 421 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 2: A lot of hazardous waste. We're talking about low level 422 00:20:05,079 --> 00:20:09,000 radioactive cooling water from the reactor and estimated two hundred 423 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:12,599 thousand liters of diesel fuel, over two hundred and forty 424 00:20:12,599 --> 00:20:16,599 thousand liters of sewage, both treated and untreated, and a 425 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:21,519 significant amount of PCB's polychlorinated bifunels, which are highly toxic 426 00:20:21,559 --> 00:20:25,640 industrial coolants. It is quite literally a toxic time bomb. 427 00:20:25,759 --> 00:20:28,880 Speaker 1: So the ice is melting and eventually all this cold 428 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:30,640 war garbage is going to get fleshed out into the 429 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:31,319 North Atlantic. 430 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:35,079 Speaker 2: That is the current trajectory. It's an environmental and diplomatic 431 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,359 nightmare waiting to happen. And it's a stark reminder of 432 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:41,480 the incredible hubris of that era. They thought they could 433 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:43,880 conquer the environment to build a weapon. 434 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 1: And now the environment is spitting it right back out 435 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:46,359 at us. 436 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,480 Speaker 2: It's a recurring theme in so many of these declassified files, 437 00:20:50,039 --> 00:20:54,240 short term security goals creating these massive long term disasters. 438 00:20:54,839 --> 00:20:57,680 And if you think the physical experiments they ran were bad, 439 00:20:57,880 --> 00:20:59,720 the psychological ones were even darker. 440 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:01,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the part of the show where we 441 00:21:01,599 --> 00:21:03,680 have to give a bit of a content warning. We're 442 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,960 going into the darkest corners of the intelligence agencies now 443 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:08,640 we're talking about MK Ultra. 444 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:11,559 Speaker 2: This is a program that is so often dismissed as 445 00:21:11,559 --> 00:21:14,039 a wild conspiracy theory by people who just don't know 446 00:21:14,079 --> 00:21:16,960 the history, but it is a matter of very clear, 447 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:19,079 very disturbing public record. 448 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:22,160 Speaker 1: It was confirmed in nineteen seventy five the Church Committee 449 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:25,839 hearings in Congress. The CIA director at the time, William Colby, 450 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,680 went before Congress and under oath, basically said yes, we 451 00:21:29,759 --> 00:21:30,119 did this. 452 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,759 Speaker 2: He admitted that the agency ran a secret, illegal mind 453 00:21:33,759 --> 00:21:37,279 control research program for more than twenty years, from nineteen 454 00:21:37,319 --> 00:21:39,640 fifty three all the way to nineteen seventy three. 455 00:21:39,839 --> 00:21:42,880 Speaker 1: And the details, I mean, we're talking about dosing people 456 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:47,759 with high potency LSD, hypnosis, sensory deprivation, psycho psychological torture, 457 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,640 verbal and sexual abuse. What was the ultimate goal? Were 458 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:54,400 they really trying to achieve mind control? 459 00:21:54,759 --> 00:21:57,680 Speaker 2: The goals were complex and they shifted over time. Initially 460 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,079 it was framed as defensive. They were terrified that the 461 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:03,240 Soviets and the Chinese had developed brainwashing techniques they were 462 00:22:03,319 --> 00:22:04,519 using on captured. 463 00:22:04,079 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 1: Spies, but it quickly became offensive. 464 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:08,880 Speaker 2: Very quickly. They wanted to see if they could reprogram 465 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:12,279 a human mind. Could they create a Manchurian candidate, a 466 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:16,519 hypnotized assassin. Could they develop a perfect truth serum? Could 467 00:22:16,559 --> 00:22:17,599 they erase memories? 468 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 1: The scope was just horrific. And I think the most 469 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:22,799 disturbing part for me is who the victims were. These 470 00:22:22,839 --> 00:22:25,079 weren't enemy combatants captured on a battlefield. 471 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 2: No, they were American and Canadian citizens, prisoners, patients and 472 00:22:29,759 --> 00:22:31,920 mental hospitals, even just regular people. 473 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,039 Speaker 1: Off the street, unwitting subjects. 474 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,440 Speaker 2: That is the cold legal term for it. People who 475 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:38,759 did not consent and often had no idea what was 476 00:22:38,759 --> 00:22:42,599 happening to them. Some were dowed with powerful psychedelics for 477 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,119 days or weeks straight without ever being told. 478 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:46,799 Speaker 1: And there's the famous case of Frank Olsen. 479 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,559 Speaker 2: Yes, doctor Frank Olsen was an Army bacteriologist who was 480 00:22:50,599 --> 00:22:54,720 working on biological warfare programs for the CIA. In nineteen 481 00:22:54,799 --> 00:22:58,599 fifty three, at a work retreat, his CIA colleagues, led 482 00:22:58,599 --> 00:23:02,359 by Sidney Gottlieb, the of mk Ultra, slipped a large 483 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:04,480 dose of LSD into his quantro liqueur. 484 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:06,279 Speaker 1: He had no idea none. 485 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:09,680 Speaker 2: He had a severe psychotic break. He became paranoid and 486 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:13,839 deeply depressed. Nine days later, he fell or was pushed 487 00:23:13,839 --> 00:23:16,240 from the window of his tenth floor hotel room in 488 00:23:16,279 --> 00:23:17,160 New York City. 489 00:23:17,039 --> 00:23:19,799 Speaker 1: And for decades the CIA covered it up. They told 490 00:23:19,839 --> 00:23:22,200 his family it was a suicide brought on by work stress. 491 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,759 Speaker 2: Exactly. And here's the ultimate frustration with the mk Ultra story. 492 00:23:25,839 --> 00:23:27,680 We know what happened, we know it was awful, but 493 00:23:27,759 --> 00:23:29,440 we don't really know what they found out. We don't 494 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:30,319 know what worked. 495 00:23:30,079 --> 00:23:32,160 Speaker 1: And what didn't because the files are gone. 496 00:23:32,279 --> 00:23:35,039 Speaker 2: In nineteen seventy three, as the Watergate scandal was really 497 00:23:35,039 --> 00:23:38,759 heating up and congressional investigations were looming, the CIO director 498 00:23:38,839 --> 00:23:42,680 Richard Helms, ordered the destruction of all mk ultrafiles. He 499 00:23:42,759 --> 00:23:45,480 knew investigators were coming and he wanted to wipe the 500 00:23:45,519 --> 00:23:46,160 slate clean. 501 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:51,119 Speaker 1: He shredded the evidence of two decades of illegal human experimentation. 502 00:23:50,519 --> 00:23:52,640 Speaker 2: Almost all of it. The only reason we know as 503 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,559 much as we do today is because of a completely random, 504 00:23:55,759 --> 00:23:57,240 bureaucratic fluke. 505 00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:58,200 Speaker 1: The financial records. 506 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,440 Speaker 2: You always follow the money. In nineteen seventy seven, a 507 00:24:01,519 --> 00:24:04,400 new CIA director ordered to search and a cash of 508 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,319 about twenty thousand financial documents was found in a different 509 00:24:07,319 --> 00:24:12,079 storage facility. They had been misfiled. Helms destroyed the operational files, 510 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:13,680 but he forgot about the accounting department. 511 00:24:13,839 --> 00:24:14,799 Speaker 1: So we have the receipts. 512 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 2: Literally, we have the receipts, We have the expense reports. 513 00:24:17,519 --> 00:24:19,720 We know who was paid, what chemicals were bought, where 514 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,799 the secret safe houses were set up. But the operational files, 515 00:24:22,839 --> 00:24:26,119 the data, the results, the scientific conclusions, the lists of victims, 516 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:27,400 those are gone forever. 517 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,119 Speaker 1: So we have this confirmed program that ran for two 518 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:34,079 decades that hurt and potentially killed people, and we will 519 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:35,680 never really know if it even worked. 520 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:39,160 Speaker 2: Congress admitted as much in their final report. They stated 521 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,519 that we will never know the full scope of MK Ultra. 522 00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:44,119 It's just a black hole in American history. 523 00:24:44,519 --> 00:24:47,039 Speaker 1: It's chilling. Yeah, And it wasn't just mind control. The 524 00:24:47,079 --> 00:24:49,599 CIA was busy with all sorts of things during this era, 525 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:54,000 which brings us to another great name, the Family Jewels. 526 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:57,119 Speaker 2: A very evocative name for a very damaging set of documents. 527 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,319 Speaker 1: This was in nineteen seventy three, again post water Gate. 528 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:04,240 The CIA leadership is panicking that all their secrets are 529 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,440 going to get out, so the director, James Schlesner, decides 530 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,319 to compile an internal list of all the illegal or 531 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:13,000 improper things the agency had done over the years, just 532 00:25:13,039 --> 00:25:13,640 to get ahead of it. 533 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,279 Speaker 2: The A skeletons in the Closet Report. Essentially, these files 534 00:25:17,319 --> 00:25:20,599 were finally declassified heavily redacted in two thousand and seven, 535 00:25:20,839 --> 00:25:24,440 and they confirmed what many had suspected for years, domestic spying. 536 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,960 Widespread domestic spying Operation Caaos, which spied on the anti 537 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:34,240 war movement, opening people's mail wiretapping US citizens, including journalists 538 00:25:34,319 --> 00:25:37,799 without warrants. The CIA is legally forbidden from operating on 539 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:41,240 US soil against US citizens. That's the FBI's jurisdiction, but 540 00:25:41,319 --> 00:25:44,480 the Family Jewels proved they disregarded that prohibition for years. 541 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,319 Speaker 1: And then, on the flip side of the dark domestic spying, 542 00:25:49,279 --> 00:25:54,319 you have the just absolutely absurd plots to assassinate foreign leaders, 543 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:56,359 specifically Fidel Castro. 544 00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:01,160 Speaker 2: The Castro plots read like a rejected script for Roadrunner cartoon. 545 00:26:01,519 --> 00:26:05,160 It just shows this level of sheer desperation to eliminate him. 546 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,440 Speaker 1: Poison cigars, that's the one everyone knows. 547 00:26:07,519 --> 00:26:09,759 Speaker 2: They also had a plan to deliver a pen with 548 00:26:09,799 --> 00:26:12,680 a hypodermic needle so fine he wouldn't feel the injection. 549 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,039 They considered contaminating a diving suit with a fungus that 550 00:26:16,079 --> 00:26:17,839 would cause a chronic skin disease. 551 00:26:18,079 --> 00:26:21,279 Speaker 1: Wait a booby track seashell. Run that by me again. 552 00:26:22,039 --> 00:26:24,400 They really tried to put an explosive in the seashell. 553 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,599 Speaker 2: They planned to. They knew Castro was an avid scuba dover, 554 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,480 so the Technical Services Division came up with the idea 555 00:26:30,519 --> 00:26:34,240 to find a particularly spectacular conc shell, paint it with 556 00:26:34,319 --> 00:26:37,000 bright colors to make it even more attractive, pack it 557 00:26:37,039 --> 00:26:38,960 with explosives, and place it on the reef where he 558 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:39,720 often dived. 559 00:26:39,799 --> 00:26:41,400 Speaker 1: And the hope was he just swim by and pick 560 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:41,720 it up. 561 00:26:41,839 --> 00:26:44,799 Speaker 2: That was the hope. It's comical, but it's also terrifying 562 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,279 because these are the people in charge of national security 563 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,599 and they're coming up with exploding seashells. 564 00:26:49,799 --> 00:26:53,079 Speaker 1: It highlights a complete lack of accountability, and just like 565 00:26:53,079 --> 00:26:58,039 with MK Ultra, the Family Jewels documents are infuriatingly incomplete. 566 00:26:58,079 --> 00:27:00,680 The documents will often describe and act like a break 567 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:02,960 in or a wire tap, but they don't say who 568 00:27:03,079 --> 00:27:08,200 authorized it, or they'll mention a related file that was conveniently. 569 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,680 Speaker 2: Destroyed, so we see the crime, but not the criminal exactly. 570 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,319 Speaker 1: It proves the activity happened, but it hides the architects. 571 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:16,640 It hides the chain of command. 572 00:27:16,759 --> 00:27:20,559 Speaker 2: And this theme of authorized but unaccountable action leads us 573 00:27:20,559 --> 00:27:23,119 perfectly into our next thread. We're heading to Europe. Now 574 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:24,839 we have to talk about Operation Claudia. 575 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,640 Speaker 1: This is one of the most complex and controversial secrets 576 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,640 of the entire Cold War. It really changes how you 577 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,000 look at modern European history once you understand it. 578 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:33,400 Speaker 2: It does. 579 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,599 Speaker 1: So the premise when it starts out is it's kind 580 00:27:36,599 --> 00:27:37,400 of understandable. 581 00:27:37,519 --> 00:27:41,519 Speaker 2: I guess logically yes, within a Cold War context. After 582 00:27:41,599 --> 00:27:44,000 World War Two, NATO countries were terrified of a massive 583 00:27:44,039 --> 00:27:46,720 Soviet invasion of Western Europe. So, with the help of 584 00:27:46,759 --> 00:27:50,119 the CIA and MI six, they created stay behind. 585 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:54,039 Speaker 1: Army, secret networks of soldiers and hidden weapons caches buried 586 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:59,960 all across Europe, Italy, Belgium, France, West Germany, Greece, all 587 00:28:00,079 --> 00:28:00,920 all over. 588 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,920 Speaker 2: The idea was, if the Soviets invade and occupy Western Europe, 589 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:09,279 these secret soldiers activate, they become the resistance, a gorilla 590 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:13,440 force operating behind enemy lines. In theory, a purely defensive measure. 591 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,599 Speaker 1: But the twist is the Soviets never invaded. 592 00:28:16,759 --> 00:28:19,400 Speaker 2: They didn't, But these secret armies, armed to the teeth, 593 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,000 didn't just sit still and gathered dust for forty years. 594 00:28:22,079 --> 00:28:24,599 Speaker 1: And this is where it gets incredibly messy. We're talking 595 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,640 about documented links to domestic terrorism. 596 00:28:27,519 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 2: Specifically in Italy. The whole controversy exploded in the nineteen 597 00:28:31,319 --> 00:28:35,160 nineties when Italian investigators began connecting these Gladio groups, these 598 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:39,079 secret NATO backed soldiers to horrific acts of violence within 599 00:28:39,119 --> 00:28:39,920 their own countries. 600 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,279 Speaker 1: There were bombings, shootings, it was called the Years of 601 00:28:42,359 --> 00:28:45,400 Lead in Italy, dozens of attacks that were blamed on 602 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,079 communists or far left extremists at the time. 603 00:28:48,079 --> 00:28:51,359 Speaker 2: But later a darker suspicion arose that these secret right 604 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,839 wing networks were involved in something called a strategy of tension. 605 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:55,559 Speaker 1: What does that mean? 606 00:28:55,759 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 2: The idea was to create chaos, to carry out bombings 607 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:02,440 on civilians like the nineteen eighty Bolognia railway station bombing 608 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,480 that killed eighty five people, and then blamed the communists 609 00:29:05,519 --> 00:29:07,519 in order to keep the public scared and ensure they 610 00:29:07,599 --> 00:29:12,079 kept voting for anti communist governments, to destabilize democracy in 611 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:12,920 order to save it. 612 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 1: Wait. Wait, so elements of the state, or at least 613 00:29:16,319 --> 00:29:19,839 state sanctioned secret armies, were bombing their own people to 614 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:21,119 scare them into compliance. 615 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 2: That is the very serious allegation, and in some cases 616 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:28,039 the conclusion of parliamentary and judicial inquiries. In nineteen ninety, 617 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,960 the Italian Prime Minister Julio Andretti went before Parliament and 618 00:29:32,039 --> 00:29:34,839 confirmed the existence of the Gladio network in Italy. 619 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 1: So they admitted it was real. But did the governments 620 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:39,480 ever admit responsibility for the violence? 621 00:29:39,839 --> 00:29:42,599 Speaker 2: Generally no, They admitted the networks were real, but they 622 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:46,200 denied responsibility for the crimes. They'd say, yes, the network existed, 623 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,000 but those were rogue elements. They weren't acting on our orders. 624 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: It's the ultimate plausible deniability. But just think about the 625 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,440 implication here for a moment. You have secret soldiers funded 626 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,480 by the state, operating within democratic borders, with no public oversight, 627 00:30:01,599 --> 00:30:03,400 no parliamentary control at all. 628 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,519 Speaker 2: It is a democratic nightmare. And just like our other files, 629 00:30:06,799 --> 00:30:10,039 the records were redacted or destroyed. To this day, we 630 00:30:10,119 --> 00:30:12,319 do not have a clear picture of who controlled what, 631 00:30:12,799 --> 00:30:15,799 who gave the orders for these attacks, how much damage 632 00:30:15,839 --> 00:30:17,559 did they actually cause across Europe? 633 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,279 Speaker 1: It's that same pattern again, the mechanism is revealed. We 634 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,759 know the secret army existed, but the specific actions, the 635 00:30:24,799 --> 00:30:26,880 accountability are lost to history. 636 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 2: And speaking of mechanisms that exist without our control, we 637 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,400 have to talk about the ultimate failsafe, the one that 638 00:30:33,799 --> 00:30:35,839 I admit it keeps me up at night at hand, 639 00:30:36,039 --> 00:30:38,519 the Soviet perimeter system. That's its official name. 640 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 1: This is pure undiluted nightmare fuel. So during the Cold War, 641 00:30:43,039 --> 00:30:45,960 the Soviets were paranoid about a US nuclear first strike. 642 00:30:46,319 --> 00:30:48,839 They thought, what if the Americans launched a surprise attack, 643 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,680 nuke the Kremlin and wipe out our entire political and 644 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,400 military leadership before we can give the order to fight back. 645 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 2: It's a valid strategic fear in that era. It's called 646 00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:00,799 a decapitation strike. If the head of this is cut off, 647 00:31:00,799 --> 00:31:03,519 the body can't strike back. So they built a solution, 648 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:05,240 an automated. 649 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:07,400 Speaker 1: System, a machine to guarantee revenge. 650 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:10,119 Speaker 2: A computer system buried deep in a bunker, linked to 651 00:31:10,119 --> 00:31:14,759 the entire Soviet nuclear arsenal. The concept was as simple 652 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:16,200 as it was horrifying. 653 00:31:16,359 --> 00:31:17,119 Speaker 1: How did it work? 654 00:31:17,359 --> 00:31:20,599 Speaker 2: The system would constantly monitor a network of sensors for 655 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,559 signs of a nuclear detonation on Soviet soil, seismic sensors, 656 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,839 radiation detectors. It would also check for a loss of 657 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:32,640 communication with the general staff. If it detected a nuclear strike, 658 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,359 and if no one in the leadership overrode it within 659 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,599 a certain timeframe, it would launch. 660 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:41,559 Speaker 1: It would automatically launch a full scale retaliatory nuclear. 661 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:45,279 Speaker 2: Strike without any human intervention. Specifically, it would launch a 662 00:31:45,319 --> 00:31:48,759 special command rocket that would fly across the Soviet Union, 663 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,960 broadcasting the launch codes to all the silos and submarines below, 664 00:31:52,359 --> 00:31:55,319 bypassing the need for human crews to even turn their keys. 665 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 1: So if everyone is dead the machine wakes up. 666 00:31:58,119 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 2: And ends the world, it completely moves the human element 667 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:04,839 from the apocalypse. It ensures that mutually assured destruction is 668 00:32:05,039 --> 00:32:09,279 truly absolutely assured. Even if you kill the enemy leadership, 669 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:10,240 you still die. 670 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 1: And this isn't just a rumor from a spy. 671 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,240 Speaker 2: Novel, No, not at all. It was confirmed by multiple 672 00:32:15,279 --> 00:32:20,359 former high ranking Soviet officers after the USSRFL. A colonel 673 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:24,079 named Valerie Yurinich, who helped design and build the system, 674 00:32:24,279 --> 00:32:28,000 gave extensive interviews confirming it was real and active for years. 675 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,279 Speaker 1: But here's the question that really haunts me. Is it 676 00:32:31,359 --> 00:32:31,839 still on? 677 00:32:32,319 --> 00:32:35,319 Speaker 2: That is the great unknown variable. The Russian government has 678 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,599 never fully confirmed if the perimeter system was ever turned off. 679 00:32:39,119 --> 00:32:42,519 Given the current geopolitical climate and the massive modernization of 680 00:32:42,599 --> 00:32:46,559 Russia's nuclear forces, many Western experts assume that it, or 681 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,279 a more advanced modern version of it, is still very 682 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:49,960 much active. 683 00:32:50,519 --> 00:32:52,759 Speaker 1: So right now, as we're talking, somewhere in a bunker, 684 00:32:53,079 --> 00:32:55,799 there could be a computer system just listening to the silence, 685 00:32:56,039 --> 00:32:58,240 waiting for a reason to launch thousands of missiles. 686 00:32:58,319 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 2: It is the ultimate unknown, very still sitting there today. 687 00:33:01,799 --> 00:33:05,559 Speaker 1: So after all of this, what does it all mean. 688 00:33:06,359 --> 00:33:09,400 We've looked at unexplainable objects in the sky. We've looked 689 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:13,319 at secret bases under the ice, illegal mind control, secret armies, 690 00:33:13,359 --> 00:33:15,400 and automated doomsday machines. 691 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:17,720 Speaker 2: If we try to connect this to the bigger picture, 692 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:22,839 the common theme isn't just secrets, it's missing information, crucially 693 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:23,799 missing information. 694 00:33:24,039 --> 00:33:26,759 Speaker 1: Right in every single one of these stories, we got 695 00:33:26,759 --> 00:33:30,319 the declassified file, but we didn't get the answer, not 696 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:31,119 the real one. 697 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 2: We have the receipts for the LSD, but not the 698 00:33:34,039 --> 00:33:36,839 results of the experiments. We have the photograph of the UFO, 699 00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,920 but not the explanation of its propulsion system. We have 700 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,880 the government's confession about the secret army, but not the 701 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:44,599 accountability for what they did. 702 00:33:44,759 --> 00:33:47,240 Speaker 1: It feels like the declassification itself is just the tip 703 00:33:47,279 --> 00:33:49,960 of the iceberg. The top secret stamp comes off, but 704 00:33:50,079 --> 00:33:54,200 the logic, the results, the key evidence, it's already gone, 705 00:33:54,319 --> 00:33:55,519 shredded or lost. 706 00:33:55,359 --> 00:33:58,279 Speaker 2: And that I think leads to a genuinely frightening conclusion. 707 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:00,799 The scariest part of all this isn't what the government 708 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:03,359 kept secret. It's that in many cases even the people 709 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,720 in charge often didn't know what was happening, or they 710 00:34:05,759 --> 00:34:07,119 completely lost control of it. 711 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:09,840 Speaker 1: That's a great point. The engineers didn't know the ice 712 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,239 would move and crush their base. The CIA directors destroyed 713 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:14,840 the files, so even they wouldn't have to know the 714 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,920 full history. The radar operators in nineteen fifty two had 715 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:19,079 no idea what they were seeing. 716 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,920 Speaker 2: We assume there's a master plan, we assume competence, but 717 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:25,840 so often when you pull back the curtain, it's just 718 00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:30,760 people reacting, improvising, covering their tracks, and leaving a huge 719 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,119 mess for the next generation to try and figure out. 720 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:35,840 Speaker 1: Well, that is a comforting thought to end on. I 721 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,480 do my best, but seriously, it really does make you think. 722 00:34:38,519 --> 00:34:39,840 And I want to turn this over to you, to 723 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,920 everyone listening right now, which of these unsolved declassified files 724 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:45,320 unsettles you the most? 725 00:34:45,599 --> 00:34:47,880 Speaker 2: Is it the objects in the sky that seemed to 726 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,880 defy our fundamental understanding of physics? Or is it the 727 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:56,320 very human, very deliberate decisions to experiment on citizens and 728 00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,320 to build machines that can end civilization automatically. 729 00:34:59,559 --> 00:35:02,079 Speaker 1: That is the real question. Isn't it is the unknown 730 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,559 scary because it might be alien? Or is it scarier 731 00:35:05,599 --> 00:35:08,159 because we know it's all too human? Leave a comment 732 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,960 and let us know your theory. I genuinely want to 733 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,159 hear what you think about the Calvine photo or the 734 00:35:13,159 --> 00:35:15,039 current status of the dead hand system. 735 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:17,360 Speaker 2: There is certainly plenty to ponder there. 736 00:35:17,559 --> 00:35:19,519 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for joining us on this edition of 737 00:35:19,599 --> 00:35:22,559 Thrilling Threads. Keep pulling at those loose ends. You never 738 00:35:22,599 --> 00:35:24,519 know what might unravel Until next time.