WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:02.120 Hey guys, it's Jack. I just wanted to talk to 2 00:00:02.160 --> 00:00:04.679 you today about a way that you can help support 3 00:00:04.719 --> 00:00:08.199 the podcast if you're not already to support the channel 4 00:00:08.480 --> 00:00:11.919 is to become a Patreon member. So we have Patreon 5 00:00:11.960 --> 00:00:14.919 memberships that start at just five dollars a month, and 6 00:00:15.080 --> 00:00:17.600 when you sign up, you get access to all of 7 00:00:17.640 --> 00:00:20.839 our episodes add free. That's the big bonus for that. 8 00:00:21.039 --> 00:00:24.000 I mean, we also do some Patreon bonus episodes for 9 00:00:24.079 --> 00:00:27.920 our subscribers, but this is the biggest and best way 10 00:00:27.960 --> 00:00:32.320 that you can support the Teamhouse channel and podcast if 11 00:00:32.320 --> 00:00:35.280 you'd like to, and we really appreciate that. So go 12 00:00:35.439 --> 00:00:39.640 and check us out at patreon dot com, slash the Teamhouse. 13 00:00:41.759 --> 00:00:50.960 Special Operations, cobertsb. 14 00:00:48.600 --> 00:00:48.880 And I. 15 00:00:50.320 --> 00:00:57.119 The Team House with your hopes, Jack Murphy and David Bark. 16 00:01:01.439 --> 00:01:02.000 This is Dave. 17 00:01:02.119 --> 00:01:03.799 I just want to give a quick shout out to 18 00:01:03.840 --> 00:01:09.079 our sponsor, PIA VPN. That's Private Internet Access VPN. 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Dimitri is pressing buttons in 68 00:03:49.280 --> 00:03:52.360 the back over there, and we're very excited to have 69 00:03:52.439 --> 00:03:56.280 on the show tonight. Simon Leak. Simon served in the 70 00:03:56.479 --> 00:03:59.800 paras and then went to the Special Air Service in 71 00:04:00.039 --> 00:04:03.680 nineteen eighty eight. Served nineteen years in total in the 72 00:04:03.879 --> 00:04:08.159 Special Air Service Regiment, saw action in the Gulf War 73 00:04:08.199 --> 00:04:12.159 a few other places, and has now parlayed the skill 74 00:04:12.199 --> 00:04:15.199 set that he learned in the military to teach counter 75 00:04:15.319 --> 00:04:19.399 poaching to various African park rangers and we'll talk all 76 00:04:19.439 --> 00:04:22.879 about that in a bit. Simon. Thank you for joining 77 00:04:22.959 --> 00:04:23.399 us tonight. 78 00:04:24.959 --> 00:04:30.720 Yes, it's a great pleasure actually, considering we're twelve hours 79 00:04:30.759 --> 00:04:34.040 ahead here. So this morning I had a heavy night 80 00:04:34.160 --> 00:04:37.519 in this bar where I am. Now it's sort of 81 00:04:37.519 --> 00:04:41.639 a leaving thing and presentations, so come on back here 82 00:04:41.639 --> 00:04:44.199 with a cup of coffee. But it's great to be here, Simon. 83 00:04:44.240 --> 00:04:46.399 Can you tell us a little bit about the history 84 00:04:46.399 --> 00:04:48.560 behind the bar behind you and the memorabilia. 85 00:04:49.959 --> 00:04:55.480 Yeah, this is I mean Brunei, Brunei being an independent 86 00:04:55.519 --> 00:04:59.519 country on the island of Borneo. If nobody knows where 87 00:04:59.519 --> 00:05:04.480 that is far east Borneo is divided between Malaya, Malaysia 88 00:05:04.560 --> 00:05:08.040 and Indonesia, but Brunei. 89 00:05:09.439 --> 00:05:11.199 The British Army have been based. 90 00:05:10.959 --> 00:05:14.000 Here in Brunei since the nineteen seventies with the Jungle 91 00:05:14.040 --> 00:05:19.759 Warfare School. Previous to that doing the Malay Emergencies. It 92 00:05:19.920 --> 00:05:22.639 was based in Malaya, so there's a deep, deep history 93 00:05:23.680 --> 00:05:28.279 jungle warfare here. Now. I was here as the Senior 94 00:05:28.360 --> 00:05:33.120 Military Instructor, which is an SAS post, exactly twenty years 95 00:05:33.160 --> 00:05:38.680 ago at the Jungle Warfare School Jungle Warfare Wing, it 96 00:05:38.759 --> 00:05:42.439 was known as then now it's Jungle Warfare Division. But 97 00:05:42.519 --> 00:05:45.639 we refurbished this bar actually during that time and it's 98 00:05:45.639 --> 00:05:49.600 called the labby Arms, so I gave it that name. 99 00:05:49.680 --> 00:05:52.639 So it's great to be back here. Last night I 100 00:05:52.720 --> 00:05:57.600 was presented with the modern labby Arms T shirt. But 101 00:05:57.680 --> 00:06:01.199 it's hallowed ground. It's one of those literary bars. I'm 102 00:06:01.199 --> 00:06:05.399 sure you know somewhere. It's a very privileged place to be. 103 00:06:06.600 --> 00:06:10.240 The Jungle Warfare School here is, you know, it's second 104 00:06:10.240 --> 00:06:14.680 to none, and they've been running infantry skills in the 105 00:06:14.759 --> 00:06:18.800 jungle and tracking and tracking has been my main phone 106 00:06:18.959 --> 00:06:23.279 for focus. So that's that's that's what I'm doing now. 107 00:06:23.279 --> 00:06:24.279 But it all, it all. 108 00:06:24.160 --> 00:06:27.720 Started here with a few beers in this bar, probably 109 00:06:27.959 --> 00:06:30.680 twenty years ago. Yeah, all this stuff on the back here, 110 00:06:30.959 --> 00:06:34.680 I've got a presentation or two that I gave, but 111 00:06:34.800 --> 00:06:39.519 all around here it's the walls are absolutely crammed with 112 00:06:39.800 --> 00:06:43.639 their presentations and history and and everything else. So it's 113 00:06:43.639 --> 00:06:45.759 a it's a fantastic place to be. 114 00:06:46.079 --> 00:06:48.800 It's super cool. You can only imagine the personalities that 115 00:06:48.839 --> 00:06:50.360 have been through that bar over the years. 116 00:06:51.319 --> 00:06:53.000 Yeah, exactly, exactly. 117 00:06:53.279 --> 00:06:55.920 Yeah, So Simon, let's start at the beginning. Tell us 118 00:06:55.959 --> 00:06:59.519 a little bit about what your upbringing was like and 119 00:07:00.160 --> 00:07:02.240 of how that took you towards military service. 120 00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:09.120 Yeah, okay, so I was I was actually born in 121 00:07:09.639 --> 00:07:13.680 Q eight, but that was two expat parents there. But 122 00:07:13.759 --> 00:07:17.319 I was brought up in Lincolnshire, and Lincolnshire is a 123 00:07:17.360 --> 00:07:20.399 real farming is a real farming county on the east 124 00:07:20.399 --> 00:07:27.879 coast of England, very very basic education. Gained absolutely nothing 125 00:07:28.879 --> 00:07:32.079 from school and I did what most of the kids did. 126 00:07:31.879 --> 00:07:34.920 With who had no other option, was to go and 127 00:07:34.959 --> 00:07:35.360 work on. 128 00:07:35.319 --> 00:07:39.879 The land in a landgang, doing whatever seasonal jobs they were. 129 00:07:40.319 --> 00:07:41.879 So you know, you get picked up in a van, 130 00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:46.920 you drive out to the fenland fields and my first 131 00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:49.720 job was what's called gapping sugar beat, you know, with 132 00:07:49.800 --> 00:07:54.720 a hope, going along taking out the excess sugar beat 133 00:07:54.720 --> 00:07:58.360 as it's growing, thinking what the hell was twelve years 134 00:07:58.360 --> 00:08:00.800 at school all about? And that's that's what I did. 135 00:08:01.040 --> 00:08:04.240 And eventually I got a job on a farm. I 136 00:08:04.240 --> 00:08:07.439 got married, I lived in a farm cottage tied to 137 00:08:07.480 --> 00:08:09.600 the job, and that was going to be me for 138 00:08:09.639 --> 00:08:12.519 the rest of my life, you know. And that's that's 139 00:08:12.519 --> 00:08:15.279 what people generally did. You worked on the land and 140 00:08:15.319 --> 00:08:19.000 then you retired at sixty five and then. 141 00:08:18.920 --> 00:08:23.959 Died at sixty seven. Your body was messed up. So 142 00:08:24.040 --> 00:08:25.319 I was pretty sorted. 143 00:08:25.360 --> 00:08:28.240 I didn't need to have any ambition or career or 144 00:08:28.360 --> 00:08:30.800 go to college because I was. 145 00:08:30.839 --> 00:08:33.399 I was learning. My trade was farming. 146 00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:40.080 How things change, that's I mean, in what part of 147 00:08:40.120 --> 00:08:41.120 England is this, by the. 148 00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:45.639 Way, Lincolnshire, it's the biggest county. It's right on the 149 00:08:45.679 --> 00:08:49.639 east coast, so between between Norfolk and. 150 00:08:49.759 --> 00:08:53.919 Yorkshire for anybody who knows England. 151 00:08:54.360 --> 00:08:57.320 And so you were working as a farm laborer, but 152 00:08:57.399 --> 00:09:00.279 you had mentioned to me that, ironically you were also 153 00:09:00.320 --> 00:09:01.600 a poacher in your youth. 154 00:09:03.159 --> 00:09:06.919 Yeah, that's right to supplement. What was a you know, 155 00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:11.840 a wage that wouldn't be allowed now. I was going out. 156 00:09:11.879 --> 00:09:16.039 We we had a gamekeeper locally who was breeding pheasants 157 00:09:16.120 --> 00:09:19.840 for the for the shoots for the autumn shoes. So 158 00:09:19.960 --> 00:09:22.120 I used to go out at night with a with 159 00:09:22.159 --> 00:09:26.360 an air rifle, you know, a pellic gun and shoot 160 00:09:26.399 --> 00:09:29.600 them off the rooft at night. And I became very good. 161 00:09:29.919 --> 00:09:32.440 And he had to be a really good shot. He 162 00:09:32.480 --> 00:09:34.440 could he had to get a head shot on a 163 00:09:34.519 --> 00:09:35.600 on a bird at night. 164 00:09:35.879 --> 00:09:38.480 Pheasant is usually hunted with a shotgun, right. 165 00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:39.879 Yeah, that's right. 166 00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:42.519 You normally blast them to pieces with a shotgun, but 167 00:09:43.399 --> 00:09:47.679 a clinical head shot is far better. And I was, 168 00:09:47.799 --> 00:09:49.480 and I was doing that, and I was and I 169 00:09:49.559 --> 00:09:51.399 was doing pretty well. So we lived off a lot 170 00:09:51.399 --> 00:09:54.600 of lived off a lot of pheasants, and it stood 171 00:09:54.639 --> 00:09:57.240 me in good stead because I became a very good sniper. 172 00:09:57.279 --> 00:10:03.039 A few years later, but I got compromised, I got 173 00:10:03.039 --> 00:10:07.519 found out, and I sort of left the farm and 174 00:10:07.600 --> 00:10:10.720 therefore had to leave the cottage that I was living 175 00:10:10.720 --> 00:10:14.720 in with my wife at the time. And my brother 176 00:10:14.759 --> 00:10:17.720 at the time was in the Royal Marines, and it 177 00:10:17.840 --> 00:10:21.759 was April nineteen eighty two and just he just got 178 00:10:21.840 --> 00:10:24.639 recalled to go to the Falklands War. He took part 179 00:10:24.679 --> 00:10:28.600 in the Falklands War. And as he was leaving the door, 180 00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:31.720 he just come to visit me and he said, okay, well, hey, 181 00:10:31.720 --> 00:10:33.480 have you ever thought about joining. 182 00:10:33.159 --> 00:10:34.879 The military as an option? 183 00:10:34.919 --> 00:10:36.639 Because I had no idea what I was going to 184 00:10:36.679 --> 00:10:41.279 do other than get another farm job, and I thought, well, 185 00:10:41.279 --> 00:10:44.799 what I'll give that a go. Before I knew it, 186 00:10:45.279 --> 00:10:49.919 I was in the recruiting office and I decided to 187 00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:51.200 join the Parachute Regiment. 188 00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:53.200 And the next thing. 189 00:10:53.639 --> 00:10:56.000 I'd sort of got fast tracked through because my brother 190 00:10:56.159 --> 00:11:00.440 was heading down to the Falklands and I was really keen. 191 00:11:01.039 --> 00:11:03.679 So later on that year I was on the train 192 00:11:04.159 --> 00:11:08.480 Lincoln station going to Oldershot, you know, the home of 193 00:11:08.480 --> 00:11:11.600 the British Army then and the depot for the Parachute Regiment, 194 00:11:12.200 --> 00:11:17.279 and everything changed. No longer, no longer a farm worker. 195 00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:20.840 I took that cassette out and put a put a 196 00:11:20.879 --> 00:11:21.440 new one in. 197 00:11:23.360 --> 00:11:24.360 And became minister. 198 00:11:24.600 --> 00:11:29.320 It was a complete a chance, a chance decision, and 199 00:11:29.360 --> 00:11:31.440 I thought, I'll give this a go. If I don't 200 00:11:31.679 --> 00:11:36.080 make it, I'll go back to farm working. But obviously 201 00:11:36.799 --> 00:11:41.919 obviously I passed the training and that led to hear. 202 00:11:41.919 --> 00:11:44.600 It makes you wonder what you would have done. You know, 203 00:11:44.720 --> 00:11:47.399 if if I hadn't done that, I would I would be, 204 00:11:48.039 --> 00:11:51.279 you know, probably retired and dead farm worker by it. 205 00:11:51.600 --> 00:11:54.440 So tell us about serving in the powers. And also 206 00:11:54.519 --> 00:11:57.519 you were in the Reckie platoon in the parers. This 207 00:11:57.600 --> 00:11:59.879 is so we're talking about mid nineteen eighties, I guess 208 00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:02.000 at this point tell us a little bit about what 209 00:12:02.039 --> 00:12:02.919 that was like for you. 210 00:12:04.120 --> 00:12:07.159 Yeah, Well, the parent when you join a parachute regiment, 211 00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:11.720 you go into just a rifle company, and after a 212 00:12:11.759 --> 00:12:16.080 period of time you get the option to do the 213 00:12:16.600 --> 00:12:20.679 course to join you know, a support company, so anti tanks, mortars, 214 00:12:21.559 --> 00:12:25.440 machine guns, platoon, signals platoon. 215 00:12:25.080 --> 00:12:26.320 If you want to go that way. 216 00:12:26.399 --> 00:12:31.399 But one of the options was patrols platoon, and patrols 217 00:12:31.480 --> 00:12:36.639 is the Repie and in three part of the Repee company. 218 00:12:36.639 --> 00:12:40.120 Patrol Company as it was then, had a really fearsome reputation. 219 00:12:41.639 --> 00:12:43.200 They were they were the you know that. 220 00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:45.559 Eventually they took a lot of those guides and formed 221 00:12:45.559 --> 00:12:49.840 the Brigade Pathfinder Unit. But those guys were massively experienced 222 00:12:49.879 --> 00:12:53.720 and respected. And it's a very very difficult selection process, 223 00:12:53.919 --> 00:12:56.240 you know. It's a bit like a mini version of 224 00:12:56.320 --> 00:13:01.159 sas selection. So I had done a sniper course fairly soon, 225 00:13:01.519 --> 00:13:04.600 did very well on the sniper course, and I could 226 00:13:04.639 --> 00:13:09.200 hear the pheasant in a tree at night, and then 227 00:13:10.360 --> 00:13:13.879 so I put myself down for the for the patrols selection, 228 00:13:14.679 --> 00:13:16.720 and the guys were saying to me, yeah, you won't 229 00:13:16.759 --> 00:13:18.840 pass that, you haven't been in long enough, but you'll 230 00:13:18.879 --> 00:13:21.080 you'll be a better soldier when you come back to 231 00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:24.360 the rifle company. But I got through, so I stayed 232 00:13:24.360 --> 00:13:27.759 with that. I stayed with that record platoon for the 233 00:13:27.799 --> 00:13:31.000 six years until I left. I did selection. 234 00:13:34.519 --> 00:13:37.480 And then so you went the SAS selection in nineteen 235 00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:42.559 eighty eight. When did the SAS like as a potential 236 00:13:42.639 --> 00:13:45.279 career path for you sort of like come into your mind? 237 00:13:45.799 --> 00:13:48.000 And I mean, how did that come about for you 238 00:13:48.039 --> 00:13:48.840 as an individual? 239 00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:52.679 Well, you know, it's it's always something that's in the 240 00:13:52.679 --> 00:13:55.320 back of your mind. If you're a serious soldier, no 241 00:13:55.360 --> 00:13:58.080 matter what unit you're in, at some stage, you're going 242 00:13:58.159 --> 00:14:00.840 to be considering could I do it? You know, And 243 00:14:00.879 --> 00:14:04.320 most people think about it and then they don't even attempt. 244 00:14:05.720 --> 00:14:08.480 And what you always find is the guys who go 245 00:14:08.639 --> 00:14:12.639 for selection, you either never see them again or they 246 00:14:12.720 --> 00:14:15.039 come back, and they normally come back with one trainer 247 00:14:15.080 --> 00:14:17.720 on because they've got an injury or whatever, and you 248 00:14:17.840 --> 00:14:21.440 only get to hear the stories of the failed guys. 249 00:14:21.879 --> 00:14:28.000 So that doesn't help. But there were two things that 250 00:14:28.600 --> 00:14:32.159 pushed me to go that way. One was the battalion 251 00:14:32.480 --> 00:14:34.480 was about to go to Northern Ireland for a two 252 00:14:34.559 --> 00:14:38.639 year tall and I was twenty seven, just going on 253 00:14:38.679 --> 00:14:43.080 twenty eight, which would push me into thirty because you 254 00:14:43.080 --> 00:14:47.120 couldn't do selection off an operational tour in Northern Ireland. 255 00:14:47.519 --> 00:14:48.559 So that was one thing. 256 00:14:48.679 --> 00:14:54.240 The other thing was I was getting divorced from the 257 00:14:54.279 --> 00:14:57.360 girl I met when I was a farm worker, so 258 00:14:57.399 --> 00:15:00.440 it sort of suited me as well to get the 259 00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:05.080 hell out. So I thought it's now or never if 260 00:15:05.080 --> 00:15:08.519 I'm going to do it, So I did put my 261 00:15:08.600 --> 00:15:12.360 name down. They sort of fast tracked me through again 262 00:15:12.519 --> 00:15:15.600 because they could see I needed to make a move. 263 00:15:16.519 --> 00:15:19.440 So I filled a car with what belongings I had 264 00:15:19.679 --> 00:15:22.279 and drove to Hereford, which is the home of the 265 00:15:22.360 --> 00:15:23.279 Special Air Service. 266 00:15:23.720 --> 00:15:26.399 And tell us about what selection was like for you. 267 00:15:26.559 --> 00:15:28.919 I mean nineteen eighty eight, this is old score. 268 00:15:30.919 --> 00:15:36.360 Yeah, it's changed quite a lot since then. Back back then, 269 00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:42.039 you just turned up with no prying knowledge other than 270 00:15:42.120 --> 00:15:44.720 what people have told you. So you've got an idea 271 00:15:44.759 --> 00:15:48.879 what goes on, but there's no there's no briefing beforehand, 272 00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:53.559 so you turn up and it's just that initial phase 273 00:15:53.600 --> 00:15:57.200 it's just are you fit enough. It's all about fitness, 274 00:15:58.039 --> 00:16:02.840 robustness and determination. So the first day it's what we 275 00:16:02.919 --> 00:16:05.519 call the CFT, the Combat Fitness Test, which is a 276 00:16:05.559 --> 00:16:10.000 standard test to weed out anybody who's you know, just 277 00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:12.440 just not fit enough. And that's that's running around with 278 00:16:12.679 --> 00:16:17.440 carrying weight for you know, several miles. The next day 279 00:16:18.320 --> 00:16:20.519 we did what's called the fan Dance, and the fan 280 00:16:20.639 --> 00:16:26.159 dances well renowned, has been one of a very very 281 00:16:26.200 --> 00:16:29.639 hard test and that's over the Brecon Beacons, the mountains 282 00:16:29.639 --> 00:16:33.879 in Wales that the se S uses their sort of 283 00:16:33.879 --> 00:16:39.080 initial selection process. So you're carrying out very very heavy weight, 284 00:16:39.919 --> 00:16:42.279 you're running over some of the tallest mountains and you 285 00:16:42.360 --> 00:16:45.080 have to get round a circuit in a group that's 286 00:16:45.159 --> 00:16:49.879 led by a d S and instructor in a time 287 00:16:49.960 --> 00:16:52.720 frame and if you don't make it, it's as simple 288 00:16:52.759 --> 00:16:56.240 as that, then you're off. So that was day two. 289 00:16:57.159 --> 00:17:00.559 Now they you know, to get to that stage, you'll 290 00:17:00.600 --> 00:17:05.240 have done attended a briefing course, a pre selection before 291 00:17:05.279 --> 00:17:08.960 you even get to that part, and then day one 292 00:17:09.680 --> 00:17:12.200 there's a buildup of you know, maybe a week or 293 00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:16.480 ten days before you do that actual test. So it 294 00:17:16.559 --> 00:17:18.920 was quite harsh, and it was one of the things 295 00:17:18.920 --> 00:17:22.880 that the only I would say, stumbling blot that I 296 00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:27.400 had because I really is prepared, perhaps that I ought 297 00:17:27.400 --> 00:17:30.039 to have been. You get a bit of time off 298 00:17:30.359 --> 00:17:33.480 to go and do some pre training, and in my 299 00:17:33.640 --> 00:17:37.240 time off, I'm afraid I didn't do a lot. I 300 00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:40.920 ended up in, you know, with some friends, getting very 301 00:17:41.000 --> 00:17:45.240 drunk with the opportunity to do that, so I was 302 00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:49.079 a bit laxadatical about it. So I suffered on that 303 00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:52.519 I didn't have my boots, didn't fit me properly. I 304 00:17:52.519 --> 00:17:55.880 only had one pair of boots, so I wasn't that 305 00:17:56.160 --> 00:18:00.200 very well prepared, so it really hurt one. 306 00:18:00.279 --> 00:18:01.440 But I managed to get over that. 307 00:18:01.640 --> 00:18:06.319 And then it's a build up then to test week, 308 00:18:07.160 --> 00:18:13.160 which is just physical tests carrying increasingly heavy weight individual 309 00:18:13.240 --> 00:18:18.160 marches over those mountains, and you either make the time 310 00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:22.440 or you don't. And if you get through that, which 311 00:18:22.440 --> 00:18:26.960 obviously I did one of the few who did, then 312 00:18:27.039 --> 00:18:29.920 you're the build up training and then you come out 313 00:18:29.960 --> 00:18:33.720 here to Brunei and do your sort of six weeks 314 00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:37.599 of jungle jungle training, which many finder is the hardest part. 315 00:18:38.680 --> 00:18:43.880 Everybody has their own their own experience and they'll say 316 00:18:43.880 --> 00:18:45.319 what they found the hardest. 317 00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:48.319 From For me, it was that day too. 318 00:18:48.920 --> 00:18:50.960 From some of the folks we've talked to on the 319 00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:54.039 show before, it's I mean, the way I understand that 320 00:18:54.200 --> 00:18:56.599 is the Brecon Beacons as part of the selection course, 321 00:18:56.599 --> 00:18:58.839 and by the time they get to Brunei, that's sort 322 00:18:58.880 --> 00:19:00.960 of like where you're warning how to be an operator, 323 00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:02.039 how to run patrols. 324 00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:07.000 Yeah, that's right. The first stage, the test week is 325 00:19:07.640 --> 00:19:10.680 literally just nobody. You know, these structures don't give a 326 00:19:10.759 --> 00:19:14.279 damn who you are, where you're from, what your level 327 00:19:14.279 --> 00:19:17.279 of soldiering is. It's just can you carry this heavy 328 00:19:17.359 --> 00:19:21.240 pack and you're invited to, you know, get over that 329 00:19:21.359 --> 00:19:23.839 hill in the time allocated. 330 00:19:24.400 --> 00:19:25.720 When it comes to going to. 331 00:19:25.680 --> 00:19:30.839 The jungle, then they're highly focused on your personality, your 332 00:19:30.920 --> 00:19:36.480 individual skills level, how adaptable you are, and your robustness. 333 00:19:37.359 --> 00:19:41.920 The jungle tests everything about an individual. It takes you 334 00:19:41.960 --> 00:19:46.400 to your absolute limit. So those who are bluffers, those 335 00:19:46.440 --> 00:19:48.640 who think they're good soldiers, those who are. 336 00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:49.359 Talking the talk. 337 00:19:49.480 --> 00:19:52.319 You know, you get a lot of people who, you know, 338 00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:54.759 they assume that the good soldiers and they're the ones 339 00:19:54.799 --> 00:19:58.200 who stand out the most and they're generally the ones 340 00:19:58.240 --> 00:20:02.279 who fall by the wayside, and it's those quiet ones 341 00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:06.799 who just keep on going and keep going and get 342 00:20:06.839 --> 00:20:09.720 through to the end. So it's a it's a huge 343 00:20:10.160 --> 00:20:14.759 level and it really does sort out. You know, it 344 00:20:14.839 --> 00:20:18.079 doesn't matter who you are. You've just got to keep 345 00:20:18.119 --> 00:20:20.079 going with it. You've got to go with the drills. 346 00:20:21.200 --> 00:20:25.279 If you don't get your administration done properly, the jungle 347 00:20:25.319 --> 00:20:29.559 will eat you up. So's there's no other place like 348 00:20:29.640 --> 00:20:35.640 it to test the mental strength of individuals as well 349 00:20:35.680 --> 00:20:38.319 as their soldiering skills, and you have to be a 350 00:20:38.359 --> 00:20:43.839 fast learner. You know, some guys come from a unit 351 00:20:44.039 --> 00:20:46.920 in their military where they've done literally no soldiering skills 352 00:20:46.920 --> 00:20:51.599 at all. Yet it's still a teaching phase, so you're 353 00:20:51.640 --> 00:20:54.559 taught everything before you even get there. You know, there's 354 00:20:54.759 --> 00:21:00.559 a navigation map, reading work, patrolling, shooting, and then everything else. 355 00:21:00.599 --> 00:21:03.559 So everybody has a fair chance. It's not you don't 356 00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:06.039 just go straight in there and you can either soldier 357 00:21:06.160 --> 00:21:08.680 or you can't. So everybody's brought up to a level 358 00:21:09.359 --> 00:21:12.759 before you go, and you have to play catch up 359 00:21:12.759 --> 00:21:14.200 at times, do you feel that. 360 00:21:14.319 --> 00:21:19.720 Having come from like Iraqi element that you had a 361 00:21:19.799 --> 00:21:21.680 leg up on some of the guys who came in 362 00:21:21.759 --> 00:21:23.720 with no kind of combat. 363 00:21:23.799 --> 00:21:28.400 Yeah, but for definitely could. I've already done quite a 364 00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:33.279 bit of work in the jungle in Central America, and 365 00:21:33.319 --> 00:21:38.519 Belieze was the other British Armies base, so I'd been 366 00:21:38.559 --> 00:21:43.359 out there a couple of times, and yeah, just the 367 00:21:42.799 --> 00:21:47.400 the navigation. Navigating in the jungle is a specifically hard 368 00:21:47.480 --> 00:21:51.079 thing to do, especially before the days of GPS, so 369 00:21:51.400 --> 00:21:55.200 I already had a handle on that, and just you know, 370 00:21:55.359 --> 00:21:58.279 just living in the jungle, it was something I was 371 00:21:58.359 --> 00:22:02.319 used to. The heat there, living in hammocks and pole 372 00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:07.920 beds and that sort of stuff, so it was definitely 373 00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:11.160 an advantage to me. But still at the same time, 374 00:22:12.079 --> 00:22:15.519 it's it's about an individuals. 375 00:22:15.519 --> 00:22:17.359 Something deep within an individual that. 376 00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:23.720 Sends you beyond the you know, where other people, you know, 377 00:22:23.799 --> 00:22:26.319 fall by the wayside. Is there's just something and it 378 00:22:26.599 --> 00:22:29.680 doesn't really matter how much experience you've got or what 379 00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:33.839 you've done. It's something that comes from deep within that 380 00:22:34.039 --> 00:22:37.920 keeps you going beyond where others have just sat down 381 00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:40.400 and said, now I can't do this anymore. I don't 382 00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:40.960 know what it is. 383 00:22:41.960 --> 00:22:47.680 After you graduated from your training, what squadron did you 384 00:22:47.720 --> 00:22:49.759 get assigned to and could you tell us about what 385 00:22:49.799 --> 00:22:52.519 it was like the first land there, like what the 386 00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:55.319 what the culture of the of the squadron was, like 387 00:22:55.759 --> 00:22:58.119 your teammates, you know, and we don't we don't need 388 00:22:58.160 --> 00:23:00.279 to talk names if you don't want to, by I'm 389 00:23:00.279 --> 00:23:02.240 just kind of interested in like what the culture and 390 00:23:02.279 --> 00:23:04.519 the vibe was in the unit at that time. 391 00:23:06.400 --> 00:23:11.720 Yeah, it's so, you know, after the the whole selection process, 392 00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:15.200 you just get sort of thrown your bury and told 393 00:23:15.279 --> 00:23:17.799 that's what you've done. Now, now go to your squadron. 394 00:23:17.839 --> 00:23:21.480 And I went to a squadron. I wanted to go 395 00:23:21.640 --> 00:23:26.359 to the Amphibious troop boat troop. So you get you 396 00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:30.799 get a choice of three insurgent skills, Air Troop, Mountain troop, Mobility, 397 00:23:31.759 --> 00:23:36.400 or boat troop, and I chose boat troop. You don't 398 00:23:36.400 --> 00:23:39.759 always get your choice, but so basically you go then 399 00:23:39.880 --> 00:23:42.079 to the squadron offices. 400 00:23:42.759 --> 00:23:43.960 You have an interest room. 401 00:23:44.119 --> 00:23:46.200