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Speaker 3: Remaining a live man, I like this man letting butterfly

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flatin in wing big ban in on force.

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Speaker 2: Man, it gonna cause a tree fold letting five thousand

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mile away man. Nobody seen, nobody, you know no man

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and the panel.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back to the Jay Burdens Show. How you doing that?

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Speaker 2: Very good? Very good? A little short on sleep, but

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happy to be here.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm really glad to really glad to have you

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on again. I had a very good time with you

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in the Portland event last year. We had a good

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time our why he's met Yeah, which is I mean

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not to say that I had low expectation, but this

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is always nice. When you know your friends with someone

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and your wives get along, right, it does make it

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slightly easier.

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Speaker 2: I think that's like a critical part of kind of

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the community feeling is having or things where you can

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bring your wife to the events. And it's always been

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kind of a challenge. In the early days of doing this,

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that was a real challenge. My wife got by you

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to a lot of dinners with some very strange Internet

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peace and she was an excellent sport.

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Speaker 3: Yes, there have been similar occurrences. I won't tell tales

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out of school. Yes, but you recently wrote a very

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very good essay responding to this piece in Compact, right

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the Lost Generation, which went about as viral as an

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article really can. Obviously, i'll let you kind of summarize

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your own remarks, but there were a couple of things

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I thought we're interesting about that piece from Compact, because

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if you've noticed, there have been several essays that have

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taken talking points sort of from our spheres and adjacent

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spheres and effectively republished them and laundered them through in

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places like Compact Right, which is edgy enough but also

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still respectable enough that you know, normal people are allowed

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to read it. If you remember who wrote that, it

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was honestly cribbing. That John Carter essay about feminization was

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that Helen.

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Speaker 2: Roy Helen No, no, no, no, wrong, Helen. There's there's

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uh my, that's my wife's. Also first name is Hellen. Two.

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There's so many Helen's there was like but anyway, Helen

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Helen Roy was a former right wing blogger who kind

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of retreated from the scene. This is Helen Andrews.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I'm sorry, not Helen pluck Rose.

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Speaker 2: Either of hell no, no, yeah, that's that's.

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Speaker 3: All seriousness. We saw that same mechanism, right, taking a

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complaint from the fringes, sort of bringing it into mainstream discourse.

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In the instance of whichever Helen wrote that essay, it

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was feminization, whereas in this Compact piece it was effectively

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the dispossession of young white guys in America, and the

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article was sort of narrowly focused on certain creative fields.

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The author i believe was a little bit older, he'd

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had kind of a Hollywood job, but it was expressing,

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you know, many of the same concerns our friends have,

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and you wrote a very good essay in response to it.

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I'll kick it to you.

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Speaker 2: Dave Well. I mean, this is the problem is that

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I was. I got the inspiration for this essay during

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when the article came out in December, and then my

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family got super sick with this horrible flu this year,

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and so it came out like a month late, and

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everything's month behind. And I guess that it gave me

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kind of two things. First of all, I couldn't say

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what everyone else was saying about it, you know, I

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kind of went over the general problem of the article,

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but I added on some sort of the missing dimensions.

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I felt that people weren't quite emphasizing the thing that

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sets aside Savage's article. And again, he's not the first

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person to write about this. We have Jeremy Carl who

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wrote an entire book about this, and we have twenty

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years of articles from like the you know, the distancephere,

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going all the way back to people like Vdair and

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those other people who caught onto this stuff early. The

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critical thing about the article from Savage's point of view

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is that, a it was very well written to appeal

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to a blue state PMC audience, professional manager, old class audience.

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It was ideally suited to do that. The publication in

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Compact was also perfect, because Compact is becoming the place

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where it's like the confessional for the mendacity of our

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ruling class. You go to Compact temt you were wrong

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about something and get that into the mainstream, because you know,

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the New York Times is not going to run this article,

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neither is the Atlantic Monthly, but Compact will. And the

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other thing is it kind of it started out as

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being kind of something that Blue Staters could kind of

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get on board with, but then it segued into just

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a very oblique view of the eventual consequences of having

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all institutional arrangements, especially in creative spheres, essentially closed to

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an entire generation of young men. The New York Review

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of Books, I believe this is Savage's previous article. It

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I mean, most great writers that were highlighted from the

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twentieth century were featured there. And you look back and

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what I can't remember the exact statistic, but almost none

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of our generation's men have been put forward by those

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institutions for thirty years now, right, And it's the same

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story everywhere in movies, in script writing, in university appointments,

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and in increasingly in technology as well. All these leadership

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positions are being essentially built into this preference system that

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was initially presented as being kind of a minor change.

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And Okay, you know, there's so many different angles of

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this thing. The biggest question that everyone's trying to answer

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is we've known about affirmative action forever. As a matter

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of fact, when I was in high school my state,

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California illegal though I wasn't even high school. I was

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in I don't think I was even in junior high yet.

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It was like ninety five or something like that. I

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must have been I don't know, sixth grade or something.

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I'm just guessing here, right, But they illegalized affirmative action

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when I was very young in California. And since they've

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had affirmative action illegal, they've essentially been able to completely

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shut straight white male screenwriters out of Hollywood. How was

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that possible? Right? And so the question really is how

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did this happen? And the answer to how did this

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happened was a we don't live under the law as written.

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We live under an administrative state where you can couch

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things in different language and different decision making methodologies, so

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that it's unclear who's doing what. This decision making apparatus

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is very sensitive to things like the desire to diversify,

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and furthermore, this is the real critical thing, the generational problem.

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The baby boomers and the older gen xers were able

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to diversify the institutions that they ran at no cost

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to themselves. They came in and had full consideration during

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their tenure for the work on its merits, and then

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when they got into positions that were comfortable, they pulled

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up the ladder after them and decided that they were

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going to diversify at the expense of their children's generation

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and really at the expense of their son's opportunities. I

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think this falls a lot less heavily on white women,

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although I'm sure they've had some disadvantages from this preference system.

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It was really as them to exclude white males in particular,

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because there's always a pretense to have more women in

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these creative roles because they were historically underrepresented, and you know,

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how does our civilization or society what's left of it,

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tell the story of what happened here in a way

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that is just not some kind of arch treachery. I

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don't I don't know. I'm sure you know, the the

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ruling classes is admitting to this now, they're admitting to

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the fact that they essentially dispossessed a generation or two

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of opportunities that should have been theirs. And the next

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step is they're going to forget it. They're going to

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forget about this, and the bureaucracy is going to continue

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on as normal, and we're going to have to figure

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out what the narrative is going forward. And I guess

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it just shows you. I mean, it's it's it's too

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late for the boomers at this stage. There's not going

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to be a come to Jesus moment. They're they're well

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passed retirement. The disposition has already taken place in many ways.

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The reason why this article got popular was that it's

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it's so advanced it's almost impossible to fix, and you know,

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so they're not going to really be involved in this conversation.

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But a sort of the last part of my article

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was talking about the real conversation now has to go

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on between millennials, especially older millennials like myself, and the

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younger millennial slash Zoomer set that kind of caught. I mean,

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we were all kind of caught in this preference scheme

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at one part of our careers or the other, but

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the Zoomers and the younger millennial young white men caught

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the worst of it. And we're going to have to

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find some way of talking about the task going forward

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politically and culturally and find some kind of narrative that

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works for us, because when you talk to zoomers online,

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I don't know, there's a law of black pilling. There's

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a lot of Doomerism, and there's there's a there's a

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really big lack of mentorship too. You can tell with

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the Zoomers more so than the millennials, even that there

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are generation and men raised by women, and so it's

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it's very hard to kind of talk people in that

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position out of this kind of embracing their own despair

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at a certain level. And I think that is you know,

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we talk about we're in an age of a post

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discourse age, Well, now this is an element of public

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discourse that we need to explore and that we need

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to develop tools to deal with how do we work

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together as one people, as one unified society, as one

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unified community in light of the fact that there's this

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massive generational betrayal that we're kind of uncovering. Not that

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we all didn't know about it already.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there are several several aspects to that.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 3: I've been sort of interested in the coverage coming from

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Mark Mitchell, a guy behind resmuse and polls, and he's

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been hammering away at this issue. And one of the

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things that he says over and over and over again

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is that in twenty twenty four, the most conservative people

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in America are twenty year old white men. That is

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no longer the case, hopefully that was, Yeah, and several

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things there. One of the things that he points out

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as this group right effectively young right wing men under

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forty and we know this already, is incredibly radicalized. You know,

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for instance, they're they're the most likely to say something

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like that. You know, the judge James Boisburg, right, this

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judge who's kind of continually coming up with ways to

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block the Trump administration should be thrown in jail without

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a trial. Right, something like that. The idea of you know,

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subverting or going around the judicial system apparently the most

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in favor of dictatorship, things like that. And one of

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the interesting things, and I've been writing and talking about

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this for like the last six months because they can't

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stop thinking about.

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Speaker 2: It, is.

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Speaker 3: This generational betrayal is obviously evident at kind of multiple

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levels of culture.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: You've mentioned entertainment, obviously the kind of other major industries,

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but it's also happening within the conservative movement kind of

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as we watch. So I thought one of the most

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interesting conclusions that I've seen from both the whole woke

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fright discourse and also the conversation around heritage. Right, I'm

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sure you remember when heritage was put through this struggle session.

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Speaker 2: For oh yeah, the yeah that is. I thought that

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was fascinating because I most my friends were Jewish growing up,

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and so I've gone to a lot of Shappot dinners.

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But it is amazing to see how it's used as

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a political technol. But I'm sorry, go ahead.

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Speaker 3: But the conclusion to that, both the woke right discourse

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and also the discourse around heritage is that you can't

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trust the youth boomer you you know, kind of more

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traditional conservative. They're poisoned, they're lost, cut them out, get

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rid of them because they have been you know, made

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ploys of and this is you know, their kind of

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you know, Pepe Sylvia esque red string conspiracy, not mine,

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but uh like Andrew Tait, Nick Fuentes connecting to the

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woke right, which connects to Tucker Carlson Qatar, there's some

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other you know, like ill defined nodes.

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Speaker 2: This is the giant list that James Lindsay had a

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few months ago.

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Speaker 3: But to be honest, he's not the only one, right.

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You see this from you know, Mark Levin, the people

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who you know, we're putting heritage through that whole struggle session.

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And look, I don't have any particular emotional attachment heritage,

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just kind of an example to hand. But nonetheless, it's

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almost it's the same mechanism, right. The idea that you

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know there is that this within the conservative movement, right,

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that this movement exists exclusively for, to be honest, people

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older than millennials, and anyone outside of that group shouldn't

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be trusted. It's sort of this odd inversion of you

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know what the hippie said, right, don't trust anyone over thirty.

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You know, the boomers have kept that exact same.

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Speaker 2: Mentality, don't trust anyone under forty. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well, do you see what I'm getting at there? Yeah,

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I'm same dynamic within.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there, this is something that is I own.

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This is the very unstable place that we are right now,

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which is that the boomers are. They're kind of they're

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very slowly coming to terms with their denial of the situation.

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I mean, and they have a various copes that they

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try to keep up the pretense, and like one of

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those is like the woke right, So it's not this

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is the greatest kind of cope that boomers have that

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it's not reality that's red pilling people. It's this alternative

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influencers network that is feeding all these bad ideas. And

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you know, it's particularly good for the Red States set

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because they've always believed that people were poet poisoning their

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use minds, and because it was largely true, at least

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in so far as university was concerned. But now not

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only are people poisoning your kid's minds from the left,

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are also poisoning your kid's minds from the right. The

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problem with all of this again, is that I think

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is slowly dawning on people over especially this last year

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twenty twenty five was kind of a banner year for this.

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The Boomer formulas that people like rodri Her or I

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guess I probably should exclude David French, But let's say,

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say like Glenn Beck and rodri Her and the people

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from the Heritage Foundation that think that attending a Shabbat

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dinner should be your price of admission for being a

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conservative Catholic. For some reason, I have no idea why

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these people have no coherent vision of the future for people,

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at least people who aren't from a certain ethnicity that

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they're very attached to. And because of that, you can

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have an you can have sort of like a position

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that these organizations come out with that sort of reads

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well enough, these kind of cya positions about how the

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world is. But once you get into extended conversations about

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the actual issues and what people are asking for, it

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immediately becomes indefensible. The entire conversation about Nick Fuentes was insane.

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It was insane. I mean, you know, not to go

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into their article, but we had this huge struggle session

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about how we needed to excommunicate Tucker Carlson for talking

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to Nick Fuentes. And then you know, immediately afterwards, Piers

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Morgan is interviewing Nick Fuentes, you know, And and while

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people are trying to cancel Tucker and cancel conservatives for

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their affiliation with Nick Fuentes, you have the New York

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Times doing like puff pieces on Hassan Piker, and you know,

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specifically Ross douta who I kind of liked from the

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New York Times, doing an interview that was somewhat critical

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but also not remarkably different from the interview that Tucker

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Carlson offered Nick Twentes. And the question here is, you know,

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like you can you can. You can come out with

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public statements, and you can come out with blog posts

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that framed this in some kind of light where you

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introduce all of these standards that are not very consistent.

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But if you take these standards and just poke at

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them a little bit, they immediately fall apart. You know,

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I don't know, I could go on. There's so many

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different dimensions of this you could. It's hardly James Lindsay

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is like the perfect example, right, James Lindsay is really

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good at creating these kind of or at least he

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was really good at creating these kind of humiliating optical

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moments for his opponents. And he spoke the Boomers language

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very very well, and because of that he got a

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huge following in the COVID years and just before the

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COVID years. But the problem is is that the second

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he tries to engage or answer hard questions from his

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right flank, his narrative about how the world works just

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kind of disintegrades in front of his eyes. He pull

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the thread and it falls apart, almost cliche to say

320
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this at this stage, but these characters from the right wing,

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they cannot stop themselves from and I don't even really

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care about this issue, they cannot stop themselves from just

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gushing over the majesty, the heritage that the supreme collective

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beauty of the Jewish people. There is no equal, there's

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no gentile equivalent of that. In their imaginations, all other

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gentile nations are purely propositional nations. They have no core ethnicity,

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they have no right to exist. They exist simply as

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a mechanism for making the GDP line go up. And

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like everyone points us out, everybody points us out at

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this stage, and and you know, even even the Peers

331
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Morgan thing too, like by a generational disconnect, you have

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you have Peers Morgan trying to the kind of the

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00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:52,039
moment was him him trying to he wasn't arguing against

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Nick fant Is, He's kind of trying to shame him

335
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with these optical moments. With that, Lindsay does like, I'm

336
00:20:56,759 --> 00:21:00,680
going to associate you with Holocaust deniers. I'm going to

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associate you with this man who I've brought who somehow

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paradoxically had his parents die both in the Holocaust and

339
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the Haltimore Like he double dipped right, Like sorry, I

340
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don't know it's your podcast. I shouldn't speak so you reverently.

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But I mean, all of these moments that are just like, oh,

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don't you remember this element of the Boomer truth reghime,

343
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let's relive that and get really upset about that, and

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you don't want to be on the wrong side of that.

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And it gets to the point where Piers Morgan is

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shaming James Lindsay for not having pre marital sex, which

347
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is you know, is this total inversion of the Boomer

348
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shame mechanism, Like the whole story of the Boomer generation

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was that we weren't going to have shame. We weren't

350
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going to shame people for their sexual history. Okay, great,

351
00:21:48,519 --> 00:21:51,519
so you know we all the Boomers fought fought, fought, fought,

352
00:21:51,559 --> 00:21:54,799
fought to have the Catholic nun not be able to

353
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shame you for having pre merdal sex. What so that

354
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like a double divorce could shame a Catholic guy for

355
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not having pre virital sex. Like it's crazy, and the

356
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whole thing kind of disintegrates and you end up with

357
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one side that has all of the power but just

358
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no ability to frame a narrative that anybody would believe.

359
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Speaker 3: Oh, I mean one hundred percent, and you know, look

360
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like I'm not like a fuends guy per se. He's

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speaking to someone kind of different than me on multiple levels.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 3: But to be honest, I think that that was a

364
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very that interaction he in Piers Morgan was sort of

365
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emblematic of, you know, a wider transition, right because you

366
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mentioned the fact that you know, Peers is adopting this

367
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sort of hectoring tone, right, like the kind of school

368
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mar right like how dare you? Which again only works

369
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if there's some sort of common sense of value there,

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and very clearly Nick Foann says in Peers more Gonna

371
00:23:00,279 --> 00:23:03,000
have literally nothing in common morally, so why.

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Speaker 2: Would well they they on paper they do right on paper,

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They're well, yes, on paper, Paris Morgan's obviously British, but

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00:23:10,039 --> 00:23:14,359
on paper they are both Catholic, I guess or something.

375
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On paper, they both have conservative tendencies, although you know,

376
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Peers Morgan's not very consistent, but in reality they have

377
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none because there's no functional ability to shame each other

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for transgressing some core value.

379
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Speaker 3: Well, and then I think the moment that's perhaps the

380
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,480
most interesting in that is and these are not my words.

381
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Some have called this the invocation of the tactical Jew,

382
00:23:43,559 --> 00:23:47,079
when Peers Morgan basically calls in, you know, lord Finkelstein,

383
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:49,440
as you know you mentioned earlier, to talk about his

384
00:23:49,519 --> 00:23:54,640
family history, and when starts laughing at him again because

385
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,119
it is sort of absurd, you know, it's like, well,

386
00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:01,319
you know, here's a guy, obviously. But the thing that

387
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:03,759
I found interesting about the story, and I've been following

388
00:24:03,759 --> 00:24:06,839
this aspect perhaps more closely, I'll be honest, I did

389
00:24:06,839 --> 00:24:09,799
not particularly enjoy that interview between the two of them

390
00:24:09,839 --> 00:24:11,359
for my own reasons.

391
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,640
Speaker 2: Well, it was this like one awkward moment after the other, right,

392
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:16,400
but it was it was kind Yeah, I just it

393
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:20,640
was an interesting historical artifact. I can we can acknowledge that, oh.

394
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 3: One hundred percent. I just uh, I'll put it this

395
00:24:23,759 --> 00:24:25,640
way to get me through the whole thing and be

396
00:24:25,759 --> 00:24:28,119
like eyes, like you'd have to like buy.

397
00:24:28,039 --> 00:24:30,200
Speaker 2: My eyes the clockwork orange method.

398
00:24:30,799 --> 00:24:35,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, just the deep second and social shame anyway, But

399
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:39,519
is that you know, Lord Finkelstein has sort of kicked off.

400
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,160
It's slightly subsided now, but for about six weeks a

401
00:24:43,279 --> 00:24:46,759
very similar debate, you know, to the one you're mentioning

402
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:51,519
in England right, particularly with Connor Tomlinson, who you know

403
00:24:51,519 --> 00:24:54,880
I've talked to you several times, making a which seems

404
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,920
to be a very reasonable point, which is, you know,

405
00:24:58,039 --> 00:25:01,319
if if we accept that Israel is nation for the

406
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,559
Jewish people, why can't we have them?

407
00:25:05,279 --> 00:25:06,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is.

408
00:25:07,799 --> 00:25:12,759
Speaker 3: No answer to that past, which is a family history

409
00:25:12,759 --> 00:25:13,599
of Lord Finklestein.

410
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,880
Speaker 2: This is amazing to me, is this is absolutely amazing

411
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:21,839
to me. God, I can't I don't want to talk

412
00:25:21,839 --> 00:25:25,400
about this group too much, but I'm sorry, but do

413
00:25:25,559 --> 00:25:28,440
these Jews living in the Western world have absolutely no

414
00:25:28,599 --> 00:25:33,119
theory of mind for Gentiles. I mean they walk into

415
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,960
these interviews, they walk into these conversations talking about their

416
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,400
heritage and their nationalism and their rights to this and that.

417
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,559
Are they not aware that they're going to get sort

418
00:25:43,559 --> 00:25:47,599
of a question about reciprocation, that people are going to

419
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:52,799
ask for essentially permission because we were celebrating your version

420
00:25:52,839 --> 00:25:57,359
of this collective identity, what about us? And it gets

421
00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:01,400
to be ridiculous because Lord Finklestein was he was, he was,

422
00:26:01,559 --> 00:26:04,359
he was part of the Nick Fuentes Puis Morgan interview.

423
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,839
And then he gets on Twitter and he's unprepared for

424
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:11,200
this question. And then you have Andrew Gold, who has

425
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,960
Steve laws On, who I'd never heard out about before

426
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,079
the Andrew Gold interview. I guess he's a UK figure.

427
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:21,039
He gets hit with this sort of what about nationalism

428
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:26,519
for Gentiles? What about nationalism for the English? And not

429
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,759
only can he not answer it, he implies that somehow

430
00:26:29,799 --> 00:26:34,000
the English should be at peace with their own extermination. Well,

431
00:26:34,039 --> 00:26:36,920
at the same time they hand over millions to Israel

432
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,319
to like, you know, secure their borders in this like

433
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:44,440
little meaningless backwater by killing tons and tons of people.

434
00:26:45,039 --> 00:26:47,680
And not only that, he gets on Twitter again, like

435
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:50,880
he's now heard this question two times from Steve Laws.

436
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:54,039
He fails a question on Twitter. He has Carl Benjamin

437
00:26:54,079 --> 00:26:58,680
on his show again. He reviews it, kind of walks

438
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:00,880
back the whole the British people should be at peace

439
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,559
with their own extermination thing, and then Carl Benjamin says, Okay,

440
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,319
let's just clarify it right now, ask him the exact

441
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:12,559
same question again. And Andrew Golds is like, m Ah,

442
00:27:12,599 --> 00:27:16,480
I don't know, are you not prepared for this. It's

443
00:27:16,519 --> 00:27:18,319
been a month. It's been a month of the same

444
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:22,039
question over and over and over again. You just if

445
00:27:22,039 --> 00:27:27,200
you say, you say yes or what is obviously happening

446
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:29,920
is that there is essentially a double standard. I mean,

447
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,759
you know, obviously what obviously is going on is that

448
00:27:33,799 --> 00:27:38,200
there is in the core moral justification that these people

449
00:27:38,279 --> 00:27:43,720
have for their politics, a double standard that holds themselves

450
00:27:43,799 --> 00:27:47,920
up as a particular type of people that deserve things

451
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,119
that no other people does. That's obviously what's going Otherwise

452
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,519
they would just say yes, they would say themselves the humiliation.

453
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,039
They know this question is coming. They've had this question

454
00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:02,079
fed to them for years now, since October seventh, and

455
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,599
they have no answer for it. They continuously have no

456
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,640
answer for it. And I don't know, I'm I guess no.

457
00:28:09,839 --> 00:28:13,799
I understand there probably are, There probably are younger people

458
00:28:13,839 --> 00:28:16,119
in the Jewish community that are more willing to kind

459
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:20,359
of bite the bullet on reciprocation. But insofar as the

460
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:26,039
more established sectors of this community that they can't countenance

461
00:28:26,279 --> 00:28:30,799
that they're ever going to entertain this, that that basically

462
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:32,559
endorsing nationalism at some level.

463
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:39,599
Speaker 3: Well, and this is an idea you mentioned in one

464
00:28:39,599 --> 00:28:41,480
of your streams in the last six months. I have

465
00:28:41,519 --> 00:28:45,279
no citation better than that, uh we were talking about.

466
00:28:45,319 --> 00:28:47,160
And I think this is, you know, a thread that

467
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:52,960
ties you know, the relative position of both the state

468
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:57,240
of Israel and ties back to our conversation about baby boomers,

469
00:28:57,359 --> 00:29:01,559
which is, to be honest, like what's in it for me?

470
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,039
Like what if I am to play my role correctly?

471
00:29:05,599 --> 00:29:08,279
What does that look like? And you know, in the

472
00:29:08,319 --> 00:29:12,480
answer of you know, the economy or job selection, is

473
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:16,240
the answer just that I simply resign myself to sliding

474
00:29:16,279 --> 00:29:18,039
down the socioeconomic ladder.

475
00:29:17,799 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 2: And be at peace with your own proletarianization, grind, grind, grind, grind, grind,

476
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,440
and pay forty percent of your salary in too taxes

477
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,240
until Social Security expires, and then you'll pay fifty percent

478
00:29:30,799 --> 00:29:34,400
and then also get locked out of all roles that

479
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:40,079
involve any modicum of creativity or prestige or political power,

480
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,240
and then be resigned for your legacy to be a

481
00:29:43,319 --> 00:29:47,680
minority inside a polity that celebrates identity politics for all

482
00:29:47,759 --> 00:29:51,279
people except the specific ethnic group that is your own,

483
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,440
which we have conveniently been teaching everyone for the last

484
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:59,920
fifty years to believe is responsible for all contemporary human problems.

485
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,039
That is the deal of the baby boomer. That is

486
00:30:04,079 --> 00:30:08,119
what all baby boomers tell you, either gentile or otherwise.

487
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,279
And I guess it's particularly funny in the case of

488
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:16,039
people who are Israeli Zionists, because there's this really obvious contradiction.

489
00:30:16,759 --> 00:30:20,359
But I mean it made sense because baby boomers believe

490
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:25,039
that history was ending and that they had solved the

491
00:30:25,079 --> 00:30:28,640
problem of humans success, they had solved the problem of

492
00:30:28,799 --> 00:30:33,480
power and of of scarcity. No, you were on this

493
00:30:33,519 --> 00:30:37,240
guy A. P. F. Young's show, right, You were dealing

494
00:30:37,279 --> 00:30:40,519
with this question with this kind of and suffer spent

495
00:30:40,559 --> 00:30:44,640
my entire life around these idiot academic types. Well done,

496
00:30:44,799 --> 00:30:46,759
but you were talking about on that show.

497
00:30:48,799 --> 00:30:52,599
Speaker 3: Just just to clarify this, you may have noticed that

498
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,440
I started out with a very different game plan of

499
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,799
what we were supposed to do. What I was told

500
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,839
is that we were talking about well bridge building bridges

501
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,119
between the left and the right, and what we ended

502
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:08,319
up talking about was identity politics and like Star Trek,

503
00:31:08,359 --> 00:31:11,559
abundant socialism. Well, completely unrelated.

504
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 2: But that's the thing, right, like you talk about the

505
00:31:13,519 --> 00:31:18,799
realities of ethnic anity politics and the nature of social cohesion. Now,

506
00:31:18,799 --> 00:31:21,400
this is an established scientific result. It has been an

507
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,920
established scientific result for twenty or thirty years, you know,

508
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:29,559
and and and it came out with the and so okay,

509
00:31:29,599 --> 00:31:32,039
so this is an established scientific result. He knew that.

510
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:36,119
I can't remember who your interlocker was, but he knew that.

511
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,920
And the way that the Academy has coped with the

512
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,880
Putinum effect is to point out the very real I mean,

513
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:46,680
don't know, we're talking about statistical effects in multi factor systems.

514
00:31:46,759 --> 00:31:50,079
It's hard to say it's real. But the reality that

515
00:31:50,759 --> 00:31:53,680
they'll they'll tell you this, that that that wealth is

516
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:57,599
a better predictor for a cohesion than is diversity. So aka,

517
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,480
if you're filthy, filthy, filthy, filthy rich, you know, then

518
00:32:01,559 --> 00:32:04,119
you could have a multi ethnic community. So for instance,

519
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:09,240
Berkeley is highly multi ethnic and it's very very cohesive. Right,

520
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:14,599
so are all rich Ivy League schools. So the solution

521
00:32:15,119 --> 00:32:17,920
to all the problems we have with the real political

522
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:23,119
disadvantages of diversity is just make everybody rich. And he

523
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:24,799
didn't say that. He's like, why don't we just have

524
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:27,759
policy that makes everybody rich and then we won't have

525
00:32:27,839 --> 00:32:31,559
to worry about this anymore. And you know, okay, I forgot.

526
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,240
We had them make everyone rich button. We have been

527
00:32:35,279 --> 00:32:38,200
pressing it. It's been you know, it's been sequestered in

528
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:42,359
the behind the layer of capitalism. And you know there's

529
00:32:42,359 --> 00:32:44,920
another button in the oval office, and if you press it,

530
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:49,480
then scarcity goes away and politics is solved forever. And

531
00:32:50,039 --> 00:32:53,039
it kind of gives you this idea that socialism and

532
00:32:53,079 --> 00:32:56,440
communism are just another they're like the final Boomer cope.

533
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,480
Like the final Boomer cope is to be being a

534
00:33:00,519 --> 00:33:04,920
white male communist in present era is is to sort

535
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,519
of be engaging in the final Boomer cope. It's the

536
00:33:07,599 --> 00:33:13,359
idea that if we only, if we only applied Stalinism,

537
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:17,200
then Stalinism would bring back the world that was promised

538
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:19,680
to us in the nineteen nineties, where the only thing

539
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:23,160
that mattered was your consumer habits and your cell phone,

540
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,240
and we are the world and you know, all the

541
00:33:26,279 --> 00:33:29,079
people are holding hands and coca cola, and that's what

542
00:33:29,079 --> 00:33:33,279
communism is going to deliver. You know, It's it just

543
00:33:33,359 --> 00:33:35,960
it's this attitude. It's it's a boom. It's it's this

544
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,440
boomer attitude that has kind of pervaded everything, and it's

545
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,599
it's it's impossible to puncture this. This is sort of

546
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:47,880
the you know, the famous millennial woes tweet. So much

547
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,680
a progressive discourse is just pretending not to notice things,

548
00:33:51,119 --> 00:33:54,680
pretending not to understand things, us making discourse impossible. That's

549
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:58,440
every single Rochard Tanania blog post, that's every single Matt

550
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:02,200
Eglesias article, as every single thing that Noah Smith has

551
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:07,279
ever done. They just talk about some policy idea that

552
00:34:07,799 --> 00:34:11,239
is popular among the PMC as a kind of boomer cope,

553
00:34:11,599 --> 00:34:15,920
and then they pretend like they don't even understand the

554
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:20,440
objections that are brought against it. And you know, that's

555
00:34:20,519 --> 00:34:24,159
that's the that's the entire stick and it sells perfectly well.

556
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:28,000
These people have careers. There's entire university departments based on

557
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,079
this cope, and it's it's kind of amazing to witness,

558
00:34:31,119 --> 00:34:31,719
I think.

559
00:34:33,039 --> 00:34:37,599
Speaker 3: One hundred percent. And I was speaking to Victor Berzoni.

560
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,679
I think I don't know how to say his last name. Uh,

561
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:44,880
for those wondering on p F Youung's channel, Well, that's

562
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:50,480
very much is and to that point, right, it's it's

563
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:56,760
the idea of and you see this as well, you know,

564
00:34:57,159 --> 00:35:06,760
anytime paying this slight digression right to the ice operations

565
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:11,679
in Minneapolis. One of the things you've seen from kind

566
00:35:11,679 --> 00:35:16,360
of the podcast brows circuit, right, you know, you know,

567
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:20,760
Joe Rogan others, is this idea of Well, I didn't

568
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:24,000
want illegal immigration, but I didn't want it like this, right,

569
00:35:24,039 --> 00:35:27,039
I didn't want people to be upset or people to

570
00:35:27,119 --> 00:35:32,559
be unhappy. And Okay, I can understand that if there

571
00:35:32,599 --> 00:35:36,440
were a way to accomplish such a thing without you know,

572
00:35:36,519 --> 00:35:39,559
making people uncomfortable fair enough, that would be you know,

573
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:44,880
the preferable alternative. But it's this profoundly unconstrained vision of

574
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,079
the world. Right, It's this idea that you know, things

575
00:35:48,159 --> 00:35:50,800
like abundance, things like immigration, needing, one of these things

576
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,880
are simply a switch to be flipped, right, instead of

577
00:35:55,639 --> 00:35:59,679
sort of this nexus of competing goods where one thing

578
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:03,239
will produce a negative externality somewhere else. This is the

579
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:08,639
process of balancing. And it's incredibly frustrating to me because

580
00:36:08,639 --> 00:36:11,280
you see this saying and look, it's a human instinct.

581
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:14,320
But also I think a large part of it, or at

582
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,280
least the extremity of it, has to do with that

583
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:20,880
belief that issues like poverty, issues like advancement, issues like

584
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:26,400
war were ultimately solved. Solve them. Yeah, right, And I

585
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:30,760
was thinking about this because you shouldn't be familiar with this,

586
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:32,880
but you know, I wrote an article on David French,

587
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:33,239
so I.

588
00:36:33,159 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 2: Was doing that. I like that a lot. Thank you.

589
00:36:36,519 --> 00:36:38,599
Speaker 3: Are you familiar with the Holy Post?

590
00:36:39,519 --> 00:36:39,599
Speaker 1: No?

591
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 2: What is it?

592
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,239
Speaker 3: It is the worst, Like, honestly you you would be

593
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:49,519
better off like committing like Japanese ritual suicide than listening

594
00:36:49,559 --> 00:36:52,199
or reading to any of their stuff. But it's sort

595
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:59,280
of pretty close. But it's sort of the last gasp

596
00:36:59,679 --> 00:37:03,960
of of kind of mainline Protestant culture. It's not entirely

597
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,119
Protestant though it's actually quite ecumenical. You know, they'll have

598
00:37:08,199 --> 00:37:13,800
liberal Muslims exactly. Uh, the Veggietails guy Phil Fisher, David French,

599
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:17,199
they're on that, right, it's their sort of project.

600
00:37:18,039 --> 00:37:18,599
Speaker 2: Uh.

601
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:23,360
Speaker 3: But the reason I bring that up, right, is because

602
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:29,559
you get the sort of classic end of history style,

603
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:34,039
you know, assertions, right, the idea that you know, can

604
00:37:34,079 --> 00:37:37,000
you believe that people still care about X y Z.

605
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,840
Don't they know that's already been decided? Right, We don't

606
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:46,400
do that anymore. We live in the era past nasty things, right,

607
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,079
And if we just pretend like they're not there, they're

608
00:37:49,119 --> 00:37:52,360
no longer there, right, it's another cope. And if we

609
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:54,880
you know, if we have to grapple with them, right,

610
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,440
if we have to admit that young people are being

611
00:37:57,519 --> 00:38:01,079
radicalized on the left and right do to decisions that

612
00:38:01,119 --> 00:38:04,239
were made by men, that sort of calls into question

613
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,360
the whole idea that we are living in this sort

614
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:09,119
of like app but this sort of like apex of

615
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:15,000
human history and human development, right, And I think that doubt,

616
00:38:15,079 --> 00:38:18,719
like really at the deepest root of this a lot

617
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:23,480
of the terror because I do think these people are afraid, genuinely,

618
00:38:23,639 --> 00:38:26,639
they seem to be in a very uncomfortable situation, and

619
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:29,119
I think a large part of it is that maybe

620
00:38:29,159 --> 00:38:32,039
not for them, but certainly for their children and their peers.

621
00:38:32,559 --> 00:38:36,679
They see that promise of eternal progress, They see that

622
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:40,920
promise of liberation as sort of like the jet fuel

623
00:38:41,039 --> 00:38:45,360
for societal progress sort of petering out. And if you

624
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,159
have devoted your life to that idea, you've devoted your

625
00:38:48,159 --> 00:38:52,119
life to that goal, that has to be very like

626
00:38:52,199 --> 00:38:55,440
genuinely very scary. And look, when I say I have

627
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:58,079
sympathy for these people, I mean in a very abstract sense,

628
00:38:58,119 --> 00:39:00,599
because if I think about it for longer than their seconds,

629
00:39:00,639 --> 00:39:03,320
I'm sort of filled with this rage. But I think

630
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:05,800
that that's a large part of it. And when you're

631
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,960
talking about even earlier, right, your compact is sort of

632
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,800
this confessional for you know, the PMC, for the ruling elite.

633
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:14,960
I wonder if that's a part of it as well,

634
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:19,719
that if they were more confident, they wouldn't be confessing.

635
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:23,800
And I think it's sort of telling that they can't

636
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,639
fully admit it, but they sort of realize this project

637
00:39:26,679 --> 00:39:29,079
isn't working. It's a vague thought. Do you see what

638
00:39:29,079 --> 00:39:29,679
I'm getting at there?

639
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:34,280
Speaker 2: Dave. Yeah, and you know a lot of it. You

640
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,719
know I mentioned this. People make fun of me for

641
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:40,239
a setting Jarvin too much. But there was a very

642
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:46,440
Unyarvin Yarvin interview where he said, you know you, your

643
00:39:46,519 --> 00:39:51,840
whole civilization is dying and you're out here talking about

644
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:55,760
barbecues and who's going to win SEC Conference football?

645
00:39:56,599 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 1: Uh?

646
00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:00,119
Speaker 2: And everyone is shouting at you. Your ancestors are shouting

647
00:40:00,119 --> 00:40:02,920
at you, Your descendants are shouting at you. Why don't

648
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:07,000
you do something? Why don't you act? And in sympathy

649
00:40:07,039 --> 00:40:11,480
to the boomer, that is exactly what they're thinking. And

650
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:14,119
I feel it all the time too. It just it

651
00:40:14,159 --> 00:40:18,559
feels like we have to do something in this moment.

652
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:22,760
No one really knows what to do. And in the meantime,

653
00:40:23,159 --> 00:40:27,119
if we really, if we really look at the problems

654
00:40:27,159 --> 00:40:30,800
on the horizon seriously, it becomes a lot harder to

655
00:40:31,039 --> 00:40:34,800
enjoy anything because you're always thinking, why am I not

656
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:38,960
preparing for the future that I know is going to

657
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:42,719
be harder for my children than it is for me.

658
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,840
How can I take this vacation, How can I justify

659
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,760
this stupid hobby? How can I indulge in all of

660
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:55,000
this stuff? When the future is slipping away from me.

661
00:40:55,519 --> 00:40:58,480
And the thing is is that one thing our acide

662
00:40:58,559 --> 00:41:01,239
lacks is we can't go to the boomers and say

663
00:41:02,559 --> 00:41:06,199
it's cool, just go on your cruises, everything will be fine,

664
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:09,719
and we'll we'll take it from here. And that's essentially

665
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:13,920
what everyone else tells them. Everyone else tells them on left,

666
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:17,119
right and well, left and center, everyone on the left

667
00:41:17,119 --> 00:41:22,320
and center basically tell people of the other generations that

668
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:26,840
their role in society was fundamentally good and now they

669
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,519
can step aside and let the chips fall with where

670
00:41:29,559 --> 00:41:33,039
they may. But that's not the role that we're in

671
00:41:33,119 --> 00:41:35,000
right now. The role we're in right now is to

672
00:41:35,079 --> 00:41:37,880
kind of come up with something radically different from the

673
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:42,679
directions that we've been going previously. And you know, the

674
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:46,159
problem is is that the older people are going to

675
00:41:46,159 --> 00:41:48,400
have to be part of this conversation. And the boomer's

676
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,760
decision is either to kind of pass that on to

677
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:55,280
the people who are younger and poorer than they are,

678
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,400
or to take up the mantle and kind of admit

679
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:01,840
that they're project there's been a fundamental failure. And I

680
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:05,800
don't blame them in this moment for kind of retreating

681
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:11,719
to these conservative platitudes and this conservative Pollyanna understanding of

682
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:16,480
what America is now a power works because that's what

683
00:42:16,559 --> 00:42:19,639
they need to kind of keep their life on track

684
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:23,119
and to not believe that would derail their entire lives.

685
00:42:23,559 --> 00:42:27,639
And I don't know, but you know, the future belongs

686
00:42:27,679 --> 00:42:31,239
to the people who are willing to derail their lives

687
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:34,880
because they understand a reality that's coming down the tracks.

688
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:41,239
Speaker 3: See. There are two things there, right, which is I

689
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:48,840
think that perhaps the the best work written on how

690
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:55,679
to solve this problem is Johann Kur's leading Leaving a Legacy, Yeah,

691
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:57,960
which is a very very good book. I've had him

692
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:02,159
on to discuss it. You all should I've lent out now.

693
00:43:02,159 --> 00:43:04,440
I think two copies of it given them, so I

694
00:43:04,559 --> 00:43:08,159
like it to do that. But point is, you know,

695
00:43:08,199 --> 00:43:11,599
and he's sort of tackling that project, right, how do we,

696
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:15,639
you know, explain how our ideas right? How do we

697
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:18,679
turn how do we sort of bridge that generational divide

698
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:23,599
and turn it into something positive. But additionally, I think

699
00:43:23,679 --> 00:43:27,239
that one other issue, and this is partially generational, it's

700
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:30,639
also partially a political problem, is that, you know, how

701
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:33,960
do we as you know, outsiders and people who are

702
00:43:34,039 --> 00:43:37,480
relatively speaking disadvantaged, as you know, we've said earlier, who've

703
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:40,440
been blocked out of you know, certain pass for advancement.

704
00:43:41,599 --> 00:43:45,400
How do we index with wider culture or politics?

705
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 2: Right?

706
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:50,079
Speaker 3: And you spoke about this in a in a recent stream,

707
00:43:50,679 --> 00:43:52,800
you know, kind of on one side you have you know,

708
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:55,599
the elitists and on the other the chimps. Right on

709
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:58,000
one hand, you have the you know, the populists who

710
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:00,360
are basically saying like, we will make our voice known

711
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,679
on every issue, right, using the parlance of the internet

712
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:07,000
chimp out versus you know the others that you know

713
00:44:07,079 --> 00:44:11,800
kind of like you know, rock ribbed elitists who say

714
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:15,239
nothing matters whatsoever, you know, your opinion never have any

715
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:16,400
you know meaning.

716
00:44:17,079 --> 00:44:19,840
Speaker 2: And so we we are we are heavily substueting academic

717
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:21,320
agent at that last part.

718
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:24,400
Speaker 3: But yes, well of course you know, and I'm friends

719
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:28,719
with both sides of this debate. Yes, right, uh, And

720
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:32,119
so I think that that's a really interesting question because

721
00:44:32,639 --> 00:44:35,159
look like the anti boomer invective is a lot of fun,

722
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:39,840
you know, it's cathartic, but I'm not sure, I'm entirely

723
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:42,760
sure how productive it is or even if that form

724
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:46,039
of dialogue. I don't know what the expiration date on

725
00:44:46,159 --> 00:44:49,800
that form of interaction is. So I realize I've thrown

726
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:51,800
a lot at you their data, but I'd be curious

727
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:52,559
to hear your thoughts.

728
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:55,840
Speaker 2: Well, you know, this is you know, this has been

729
00:44:56,159 --> 00:44:58,440
my Twitter experience. I have found Twitter to be totally

730
00:44:58,559 --> 00:45:02,079
unusable for the last month. I haven't enjoyed it at all,

731
00:45:02,559 --> 00:45:06,000
and it just it's a discourse app and a post

732
00:45:06,079 --> 00:45:08,760
discourse age, and so the only thing you do when

733
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:12,559
you get onto it is just kind of feel kind

734
00:45:12,599 --> 00:45:15,440
of like you're watching this big mess up here. And

735
00:45:15,679 --> 00:45:17,760
the fact that the algorithm has become broken has not

736
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:21,800
helped things at all. And you know, I'm very grateful

737
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:25,599
that it's there as an organizing tool for us, but

738
00:45:26,079 --> 00:45:28,400
this has been kind of something that I've dealt with,

739
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:32,760
is looking at this kind of conflict from the populists

740
00:45:33,079 --> 00:45:37,559
and the elitists. And I know, first of all, I

741
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:43,400
hate chimp energy. I think that this kind of I

742
00:45:44,039 --> 00:45:46,599
don't want to subsweet people, but you know, like, and

743
00:45:46,679 --> 00:45:49,760
I really respect people who are in these camps and

744
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:52,880
who want to kind of use chimp energy more. But

745
00:45:53,199 --> 00:45:55,199
at the same time, I feel like it gives US

746
00:45:55,199 --> 00:45:57,760
impression that we have some kind of control over the

747
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:03,559
Trumpet administration, which we don't, And regardless of the dire

748
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:08,960
consequences that will arise once the Democrats possibly take back

749
00:46:09,079 --> 00:46:14,119
power in twenty twenty eight, we have to operate as

750
00:46:14,199 --> 00:46:17,280
if we have no control over that right now. Right now,

751
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:25,519
the extent to which the Trump administration essentially takes control

752
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:29,320
over the real government of the United States is totally

753
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:32,719
in the court of Donald Trump and his people who

754
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:35,880
he's put in positions of power. Right now, it's our

755
00:46:36,039 --> 00:46:40,360
job to assume that a regime change is not going

756
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:44,159
to come to pass and to prepare accordingly. And look,

757
00:46:44,199 --> 00:46:46,679
I mean, chimp energy is good because it can get

758
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:50,280
you concessions from the regime. But if the regime is

759
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:53,119
going to have to decide fundamentally at a certain level

760
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:55,559
whether it wants to replace the American government, and no

761
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:58,519
amount of chimping out on Twitter is going to change that.

762
00:46:59,119 --> 00:47:01,840
And maybe decision is going to come now, but it's

763
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:04,519
going to come sometime between now in twenty twenty eight.

764
00:47:05,119 --> 00:47:08,599
Is this simply a change of administration or is this

765
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:14,239
actually a permanent regime change? And I think that that

766
00:47:14,599 --> 00:47:18,400
the ball is out of the ball is in their court.

767
00:47:19,599 --> 00:47:25,480
The destiny of this particular lifeline is out of our hands.

768
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:30,400
And if if you care about things, in my opinion,

769
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:35,360
you shouldn't be looking at power this way. You shouldn't.

770
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:37,559
You're not on team Trump. You are not on team Trump.

771
00:47:37,639 --> 00:47:40,039
None of us are on Team Trump. We are on

772
00:47:40,199 --> 00:47:44,239
our own team. We are for the continuation of our collectivity.

773
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:47,880
We are for the continuation of our faith. That is

774
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:49,840
what is at stake in all of this, and that

775
00:47:50,039 --> 00:47:54,519
is what we have to actually fight for. So as

776
00:47:54,679 --> 00:47:57,239
as such, I think there just needs to be kind

777
00:47:57,239 --> 00:48:00,400
of a consciousness change, and it doesn't make or good

778
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:05,159
social media content, but we either have to start thinking

779
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:09,039
collectively and acting collectively, because even if Trump does change

780
00:48:09,039 --> 00:48:13,880
the administration, we are still going to live in a world,

781
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:17,559
a multipolar world where we are going to need to

782
00:48:17,639 --> 00:48:22,079
pursue the good collectively. I mean, I guess to say,

783
00:48:22,199 --> 00:48:26,280
like on the elitist side, part part of the pattern.

784
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:28,559
I say, from a lot of the old n RX

785
00:48:28,679 --> 00:48:32,280
guys and a lot of the you know, the people

786
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:35,440
who are maybe in the early distance sphere that later

787
00:48:35,639 --> 00:48:40,559
soured on it because of Trump, I feel like they

788
00:48:40,599 --> 00:48:43,639
get caught up in counter signaling things, and what really

789
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:47,199
matters here is what you're going to fight for and

790
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:51,599
what you're going to represent and what you're doing to

791
00:48:51,679 --> 00:48:56,280
actually take as meaningfully forward in some sense, and that's

792
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:58,639
all I don't see if you are a good actor

793
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:01,079
in this sphere, what you should be doing. I mean,

794
00:49:01,119 --> 00:49:04,280
everyone looks out into the ether of Twitter and they

795
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:06,960
see some people that they think have that they had

796
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:10,320
their head in the clouds, their useless academics, they're not

797
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:13,679
doing anything useful for real people. And then at the

798
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:16,400
same time you also see people who are just totally

799
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:20,599
drinking the kool aid on the latest popular delusion, and

800
00:49:21,519 --> 00:49:24,559
they don't have the wherewithal to understand how they're being played.

801
00:49:25,559 --> 00:49:28,159
In my opinion, your job is an intellectual is to

802
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:32,000
bridge the gap between those two groups of aligned people.

803
00:49:32,559 --> 00:49:35,119
As long as they have the same vision of the

804
00:49:35,199 --> 00:49:38,320
good life, the vision of the ultimate spiritual good, and

805
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:41,559
they're working for the same collective well being, they are

806
00:49:41,639 --> 00:49:44,480
in some sense your people. And when those two camps

807
00:49:44,559 --> 00:49:48,280
work together, things can happen. And when they work across purposes,

808
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:51,679
you get endless Twitter drama, which is what has made

809
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:54,679
X completely useless for me, at least in the last

810
00:49:55,320 --> 00:50:01,599
month or two. Now it's oh, sorry, what was that, David?

811
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:05,199
So that's a big grant Yoh yeah, no, well, I mean.

812
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:11,320
Speaker 3: And it's something that I've been thinking about quite a

813
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:17,280
bit because I recently was that, uh, hanging out with

814
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:21,920
some online friends in real life, right, sort of one

815
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:24,039
of these classic events where you have an activity and

816
00:50:24,119 --> 00:50:26,159
then you realize you did the activity for an hour

817
00:50:26,159 --> 00:50:29,159
and ended up talking about like obscure right wing politics

818
00:50:29,199 --> 00:50:31,800
for four right, kind of nullifying the whole point of

819
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:34,840
the you know, gathering in the first place. But you

820
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:37,880
know this this came up because you know, this was

821
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:41,360
exactly you know the point raised, right, like what is

822
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:44,480
our project here? What are we doing? And also like,

823
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:49,119
you know, what is our our path?

824
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 2: Right?

825
00:50:50,119 --> 00:50:55,400
Speaker 3: Is our path effectively a sort of like reformation of

826
00:50:55,559 --> 00:50:56,239
the current thing?

827
00:50:56,719 --> 00:50:56,840
Speaker 2: Right?

828
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:58,320
Speaker 3: Sort of an entryist position?

829
00:50:58,760 --> 00:50:58,880
Speaker 2: Right?

830
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:02,000
Speaker 3: Are we trying to you know, make this thing more workable?

831
00:51:02,599 --> 00:51:05,480
Or do we assume that this thing is completely and

832
00:51:05,559 --> 00:51:09,559
totally done evil and contra our purposes? And so is

833
00:51:09,639 --> 00:51:14,280
the point to effectively to jettison? And when you look

834
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:17,960
at you know that that kind of chimp to elite

835
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,639
a spectrum you know you mentioned earlier It's sort of

836
00:51:20,679 --> 00:51:23,639
two versions of that same thing, which is, either is

837
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:28,360
this thing, this system, this government, whatever reformable right is

838
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:31,639
the Trump administration is it within their power to right

839
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:35,559
the ship? Or is this ultimately completely and totally quicks

840
00:51:35,599 --> 00:51:35,800
on it.

841
00:51:36,199 --> 00:51:38,480
Speaker 2: But but this, this, this die is cast. Though this

842
00:51:38,679 --> 00:51:40,760
this is this die is cast. I mean, we can,

843
00:51:41,199 --> 00:51:45,000
we can get more concessions from the Trump administration, but

844
00:51:45,159 --> 00:51:48,360
we cannot make the decision for Trump and for our

845
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:51,480
advance about whether they're going to actually or replace the

846
00:51:51,639 --> 00:51:55,000
American government in a permanent sense. That is not in

847
00:51:55,159 --> 00:51:58,159
our hands. We can try to kind of influence them

848
00:51:58,199 --> 00:52:00,199
a little bit, but most of the things that they

849
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:04,000
give in their like in their little concessions where Trump

850
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:07,320
says something bad and then walks it back, that is

851
00:52:07,519 --> 00:52:10,079
like a little treat concession. That is not him making

852
00:52:10,199 --> 00:52:14,960
some cosmic decision. And and you know, ultimately a cosmic

853
00:52:15,079 --> 00:52:17,639
decision is going to need to be made. It is

854
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:22,320
my opinion that we should assume that he's going to

855
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:27,000
make the wrong decision and prepare accordingly, and and that

856
00:52:27,199 --> 00:52:29,960
that is I think that's the only way that really

857
00:52:30,039 --> 00:52:33,760
makes sense to deal with the present moment. And I

858
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:37,679
don't know people find that depressing, but it is and

859
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:39,480
you say, like, what is what is the point of

860
00:52:39,639 --> 00:52:43,719
doing all of this in terms of, you know, whether

861
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:46,239
we're going to make peace with the American government. The

862
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:48,639
American government as it exists currently is.

863
00:52:50,159 --> 00:52:50,199
Speaker 1: Not.

864
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:52,679
Speaker 2: It is a broken thing. It is it is our

865
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:55,599
enemy in the sense that it is completely populated. I'm

866
00:52:55,639 --> 00:52:58,960
talking about the permanent American government is completely populated with

867
00:52:59,159 --> 00:53:04,159
our enemies, with enemies of ironically enough, the ethnic groups

868
00:53:04,199 --> 00:53:09,039
that would have been traditionally American, and they are convinced

869
00:53:09,199 --> 00:53:13,199
of this global vision of humanity that does not really

870
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:16,519
involve the types of cohesion and continuation that we want

871
00:53:16,599 --> 00:53:19,679
to see and that is essential for the continuation of

872
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:25,480
humanity generally. And they're ideologically captured. So that's not a question.

873
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:28,360
When people say they like America, they say they like

874
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:32,119
certain elements of American history. But increasingly I don't think

875
00:53:32,119 --> 00:53:34,920
those elements of American history have much to do with

876
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:39,719
the existence of the American government. And so once you

877
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:42,039
kind of and this is the reason why, and this

878
00:53:42,199 --> 00:53:45,719
is one of the conclusions of my article, which increasingly

879
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:51,079
has become a conclusion of other articles as well, collective

880
00:53:51,079 --> 00:53:54,880
identity is really and I'm not saying how you identify collectively,

881
00:53:55,239 --> 00:53:57,960
but understanding that you were working for a people and

882
00:53:58,119 --> 00:54:01,480
a faith is just so essential. This is the reason,

883
00:54:02,079 --> 00:54:06,320
this is the reason why people who are hostile to

884
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:10,039
our interests are so unwilling to kind of acknowledge the

885
00:54:10,199 --> 00:54:15,239
legitimacy of any collective label that pertains to an operative

886
00:54:15,559 --> 00:54:20,440
political force that could represent the interests of indigenous Europeans

887
00:54:20,519 --> 00:54:24,000
in Europe, or the various different ethnicities that are called

888
00:54:24,079 --> 00:54:28,519
heritage Americans inside America. And that's because it's sort of

889
00:54:28,639 --> 00:54:32,119
the key to everything. We are not our government. We

890
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:34,599
are people who are trying to survive in spite of

891
00:54:34,679 --> 00:54:40,480
our government. At some point, maybe somebody, and maybe those

892
00:54:40,559 --> 00:54:43,960
somebodies will be people that we train or influence in

893
00:54:44,039 --> 00:54:47,639
some way. Somebody will actually change the American government in

894
00:54:47,679 --> 00:54:50,360
a permanent way that would be beneficial to us. But

895
00:54:50,519 --> 00:54:54,000
even if the government did become temporarily more benign, it

896
00:54:54,079 --> 00:54:57,199
still would not change the fact that the principal political

897
00:54:57,360 --> 00:55:02,880
purpose that we are under taking is one of religious

898
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:05,719
purpose and one of collective purpose, and both have to

899
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:08,679
be there. And I had to say, we've lost sight

900
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:12,440
of both in any meaningful way. And because of that

901
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:15,000
you know, all of the formulas we come up with

902
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:18,159
talking about whether you know this, I mean, I do

903
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:22,000
appreciate the Minneapolis thing, but people are people are spending

904
00:55:22,199 --> 00:55:25,760
hours relitigating police shootings that are done in the space

905
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:29,719
of two seconds, and then they're holding people's previous opinions

906
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:33,119
against them. So someone sees a woman getting shot and

907
00:55:33,599 --> 00:55:36,800
they they feel sorry for her, and then two days later,

908
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:40,760
when it's shown that the sort of her sympathetic story

909
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:43,960
is untrue, it immediately becomes this way to kind of

910
00:55:44,079 --> 00:55:46,639
tear down the other person is not being based enough.

911
00:55:47,519 --> 00:55:50,639
And you know, this stuff is all petty and not

912
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:54,039
really conducive to the kind of changes that are needed

913
00:55:54,119 --> 00:55:56,719
in the American political consciousness in the twenty first century.

914
00:55:57,719 --> 00:56:00,400
America political consciousness in the twenty first cent tree and

915
00:56:00,559 --> 00:56:04,199
needs to be collective and religious in nature, and if

916
00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:07,719
it's not both of those things in full force, then

917
00:56:08,079 --> 00:56:11,000
it is completely unprepared to deal with the real political

918
00:56:11,079 --> 00:56:12,159
questions that are ahead of us.

919
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:13,960
Speaker 1: Well.

920
00:56:14,039 --> 00:56:17,679
Speaker 3: And to that point, right, uh, there's a fairly prominent

921
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:21,760
writer who spoke about the project of modernity is you're

922
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:27,119
separating man from culture, right, You're turning everyone into you know,

923
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:31,639
the sort of ideal global citizen. And sure, you know,

924
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:34,519
compared to kind of this like you know, full on

925
00:56:35,079 --> 00:56:39,760
you know, Klaus Schwab, you know, doubt Davos, word salad, right,

926
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:43,079
the kind of like the things that really set off

927
00:56:43,199 --> 00:56:46,800
the tinfoil hat crowd talking about the new world order. Sure,

928
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:49,519
you know, kind of like color blind. You know, civic

929
00:56:49,599 --> 00:56:54,760
nationalism might be preferential in degree, but ultimately that still

930
00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:59,119
is a separation of man from culture. It is less

931
00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:03,559
of a lie, but still ultimately based on the same

932
00:57:03,639 --> 00:57:08,800
untruths about the human organization. And this is something that

933
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:12,480
And again I'm going to mention British politics twice despite

934
00:57:12,639 --> 00:57:16,679
not really knowing anything about it, but it's never stopped

935
00:57:16,719 --> 00:57:21,719
me before watching the rise of you know, Nigel Frage,

936
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:32,360
you know his outlet, right uh and reform UK stuff. Yes,

937
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:36,559
it's kind of an interesting example of that because you know,

938
00:57:36,639 --> 00:57:40,119
he is being touted as you know, the kind of

939
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:43,079
you know, British version of Cheetoh Hitler, right, this like

940
00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:46,880
arch reactionary right winger. But really, when you drill down

941
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:50,000
to it, it is simply you know, that's a right

942
00:57:50,519 --> 00:57:55,920
color blind liberalism, right. Sure, you know, it's probably better

943
00:57:56,079 --> 00:58:00,599
than you know, Serquias Starmer. But ultimate it's then a

944
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:04,719
real course correction, right, it is not really addressing these

945
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:07,800
sort of deep fundamental claims. And I think that you're

946
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:11,440
you're framing there of surviving in spite of our government

947
00:58:11,559 --> 00:58:16,480
is very much the correct attitude to have. And look,

948
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:21,760
on one hand, you know, I'm quite glad that Trump won, uh,

949
00:58:22,159 --> 00:58:24,960
you know, just for living in the country. That's been helpful. Yeah,

950
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:28,639
But man, has it done a number to right wing discourse.

951
00:58:29,159 --> 00:58:33,079
You know, it's really made everything you know, so much worse,

952
00:58:33,119 --> 00:58:36,239
so much harder to have a real conversation about because

953
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:41,239
of you know, effectively that kind of chimp energy, right

954
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:44,719
that desire to you know, keep and enforce some sort

955
00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:47,440
of side based off of this idea that we have,

956
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:50,719
you know, a say, to one degree or another. And

957
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:56,280
weirdly enough, there's actually a very good point from Mark Levin,

958
00:58:56,480 --> 00:58:59,320
which is a very rare thing. But he of course

959
00:59:00,119 --> 00:59:03,199
really likes Tucker Catarolson.

960
00:59:04,039 --> 00:59:06,320
Speaker 2: His phrase.

961
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:11,920
Speaker 3: One of the things that he said is well, you know,

962
00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:14,159
it sure is bad that this guy that I hate

963
00:59:14,239 --> 00:59:16,480
that's a you know, a trader and you know, a

964
00:59:16,599 --> 00:59:20,320
foreign asset and a jew hater. His words and a podcaster,

965
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:22,960
which is a funny, like he kind of attaches all

966
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:25,559
of these insults together, including podcaster.

967
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:28,360
Speaker 2: That's not a real job. You're just getting paid for

968
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:29,000
your words.

969
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:33,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, unlike me. I'm on a I'm radio.

970
00:59:33,559 --> 00:59:36,800
Speaker 2: I'm on a network. Damnit, I'm on a network. I

971
00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:38,039
demand somewhere. Respect.

972
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:41,480
Speaker 3: But in all seriousness, he made the point where he's like, well,

973
00:59:41,519 --> 00:59:46,119
look like, you know, he's in Trump's office twice a

974
00:59:46,159 --> 00:59:50,280
week and he doesn't get anything he wants. And it's like,

975
00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:54,239
oh wow, Mark, that's actually a really good point. You know,

976
00:59:54,559 --> 00:59:57,639
like he meant it in a very different way, right,

977
00:59:57,719 --> 01:00:00,199
he was viewing that as something to celebrate. But I

978
01:00:00,239 --> 01:00:04,000
think that that's a like something to keep in mind, right,

979
01:00:04,079 --> 01:00:06,639
that even for the guy in the room, right, that

980
01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:10,039
the someone with unprecedented access compared to you know, you

981
01:00:10,239 --> 01:00:17,079
or I Dave, seemingly this machine marches on. And I

982
01:00:17,199 --> 01:00:19,920
mean really, you know that was you know, the lesson

983
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:22,800
of the first and then certainly the second Trump administration

984
01:00:23,719 --> 01:00:27,920
is that Washington, right, the American empire has such a

985
01:00:28,079 --> 01:00:33,119
momentum to it that seemingly it is unreformable.

986
01:00:34,039 --> 01:00:34,159
Speaker 2: Right.

987
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:36,599
Speaker 3: I think that the you know, the dissolution of Doze

988
01:00:36,679 --> 01:00:39,800
is sort of a poignant moment because in my mind,

989
01:00:40,159 --> 01:00:46,119
that is when a realistic possibility of reform died, right, yeah,

990
01:00:46,239 --> 01:00:48,519
because that was sort of the best good faith effort

991
01:00:48,679 --> 01:00:52,159
at as the millennials would say, right, doing the thing, right,

992
01:00:52,280 --> 01:00:53,440
doing what you were supposed to.

993
01:00:54,039 --> 01:00:54,199
Speaker 2: You know.

994
01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:56,840
Speaker 3: The first run around was sort of the you know,

995
01:00:56,920 --> 01:00:59,920
the the gen one populism, right, will get a present,

996
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:03,000
And the second term around was, well, we'll not only

997
01:01:03,079 --> 01:01:06,320
get a president, but we will you know, do all

998
01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:10,199
of the you know the things that you people theorized,

999
01:01:10,320 --> 01:01:12,719
you know, having this sort of you know, budget accountability,

1000
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:16,559
you know, mass firings, all of that, and you know,

1001
01:01:16,679 --> 01:01:19,960
sure it didn't happen, and if it had happened, maybe

1002
01:01:20,039 --> 01:01:23,840
that would change things. But it seemingly is impossible. It

1003
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:26,960
is not something that can be done. And I don't know,

1004
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:29,800
I think that that's sort of an interesting development kind

1005
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:32,280
of on the like the psychological play almost.

1006
01:01:33,159 --> 01:01:37,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, the well, this is kind of complicated again,

1007
01:01:38,599 --> 01:01:43,920
you know that it is very obvious. The great problem

1008
01:01:43,960 --> 01:01:46,840
with the Trumpet administration is that it needs to essentially

1009
01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:50,519
be FDR too. But America is not in a position

1010
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:54,639
to essentially build a new government from scratch by borrowing money,

1011
01:01:55,079 --> 01:01:58,599
which is essentially what it would require. I mean, we'll

1012
01:01:58,599 --> 01:02:02,159
require keeping the old government financed and phasing it out

1013
01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:05,760
while you built an entirely new one. A great example,

1014
01:02:05,880 --> 01:02:08,639
like a great missed opportunity, is it would be to

1015
01:02:08,760 --> 01:02:12,920
take some of these DOSEE programs and then as you

1016
01:02:13,079 --> 01:02:14,920
cut them, some of them just need to be cut

1017
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:18,360
because they're stupid, but as you cut them, use the

1018
01:02:18,639 --> 01:02:22,559
money you cut from your enemies to then refund refinance

1019
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:25,840
your friends. So you know, you had a few things

1020
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:28,760
that were like Aid to Africa programs, you could have

1021
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:34,800
refinanced that through friendly NGO like basically the essential conservative

1022
01:02:35,039 --> 01:02:38,559
NGO bodies, right, like private public partnerships that would pay

1023
01:02:38,639 --> 01:02:41,199
out friends that way and create jobs. You know, And

1024
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:45,519
you could argument we don't need we don't need foreign

1025
01:02:45,559 --> 01:02:47,199
aid to begin with, and there's a good case for that,

1026
01:02:47,599 --> 01:02:51,519
but I'm just using that as an example of if

1027
01:02:51,559 --> 01:02:53,679
you were really to do the thing as the young

1028
01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:57,320
people were to say, you would need to create a

1029
01:02:57,559 --> 01:03:02,320
new finance class, a professional people that were getting paid

1030
01:03:02,360 --> 01:03:05,199
to be your people, the way the FDR created a

1031
01:03:05,320 --> 01:03:08,679
group of professionals that were paid to be his people.

1032
01:03:09,079 --> 01:03:11,360
And that's very very hard to do in the present year.

1033
01:03:11,840 --> 01:03:14,320
And you know, again the de is cast on this,

1034
01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:18,639
but I think with the dissolution of DOGE especially, this

1035
01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:21,559
is the this is the this is the Trump administration

1036
01:03:21,840 --> 01:03:25,239
saying that it is going to be another administration, not

1037
01:03:25,440 --> 01:03:29,480
a new permanent government. And uh, you know, I think

1038
01:03:29,559 --> 01:03:33,800
that it's dark. But that means at some point, at

1039
01:03:33,840 --> 01:03:35,719
some point, at least there's going to be at least

1040
01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:38,199
one other period. I mean, there's there's sort of a

1041
01:03:38,360 --> 01:03:41,519
limit here right there. There's going to be a point where, well,

1042
01:03:41,719 --> 01:03:44,840
I guess we could reach singularity and you know, all

1043
01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:49,199
borders could be erased by some kind of design super intelligence.

1044
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:52,039
That's that's also a possibility. I think that's a little

1045
01:03:52,079 --> 01:03:57,079
bit remote, but that kind of apocalypse notwithstanding or media

1046
01:03:57,199 --> 01:04:00,599
is getting crashed into the earth. Eventually, the government is

1047
01:04:00,639 --> 01:04:05,599
going to become actively insolvent, not just theoretically insolvent. Has

1048
01:04:05,679 --> 01:04:10,039
been for the last twenty years. And when that happens,

1049
01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:14,360
the American government is going to start collapsing. And at

1050
01:04:14,400 --> 01:04:16,760
that point it will lose a lot of its capacity

1051
01:04:17,159 --> 01:04:20,039
to exert control in all the ways that we have

1052
01:04:20,119 --> 01:04:23,159
become used to. And there's a possibility then for a

1053
01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:26,360
radically new government to come into play, not because it's

1054
01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:29,719
absorbed the government of the old world, but because it

1055
01:04:30,280 --> 01:04:33,320
just creates one in parallel and then picks up the

1056
01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:38,400
functionality as it disintegrates from the insolvency of the old world,

1057
01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:41,440
which is you know, that's a much more dangerous scenario.

1058
01:04:43,159 --> 01:04:47,119
But in that interim period, the Democrats will get back

1059
01:04:47,159 --> 01:04:49,519
into power, they will try to use the total state

1060
01:04:49,559 --> 01:04:53,320
to punish their enemies. And you know, we have to

1061
01:04:53,360 --> 01:04:57,480
be prepared to deal with a hostile total state. We

1062
01:04:57,639 --> 01:05:00,840
have to be prepared to deal with bil holding communities

1063
01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:08,239
outside of the government's oversight or cooperation even sometimes and uh,

1064
01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:14,599
you know, without those skills developed independently, and these are

1065
01:05:14,719 --> 01:05:17,719
political projects, they are not sort of just like the

1066
01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:20,880
rodri Her, you know, go to the hills and I

1067
01:05:20,920 --> 01:05:23,800
don't even know what rodri HER's idea is. Don't do politics,

1068
01:05:24,039 --> 01:05:25,840
but also don't retreat to the hills or something like that.

1069
01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:29,360
It's not some kind of cute little platitude about having

1070
01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:31,880
a vegetable garden or a hobby farm or something like that.

1071
01:05:32,360 --> 01:05:37,239
There needs at least has something to do with Italian

1072
01:05:37,320 --> 01:05:42,159
hobby farms. And oysters and and people who read you know,

1073
01:05:42,599 --> 01:05:47,719
various different dissident authors from the old Soviet block and uh,

1074
01:05:47,960 --> 01:05:50,800
you know. But regardless of that, there's just going to

1075
01:05:50,840 --> 01:05:54,639
need to be people who are capable of doing activism

1076
01:05:55,039 --> 01:05:59,679
and doing organization from a non progressive point of view,

1077
01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:01,840
and we are very far behind on that. I think

1078
01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:05,199
that it's been very hopeful. We've seen an enormous amount

1079
01:06:05,199 --> 01:06:07,920
of growth in the last three years, in particular in

1080
01:06:08,039 --> 01:06:11,480
terms of people's capacities to actually do things, to take

1081
01:06:11,519 --> 01:06:15,159
the ideas they have got in well in the online

1082
01:06:15,239 --> 01:06:17,760
world or in the distance here, and then actively put

1083
01:06:17,800 --> 01:06:20,800
them into practice in the real world. There are many organizations,

1084
01:06:20,880 --> 01:06:24,079
including one or two that we are both members of,

1085
01:06:24,960 --> 01:06:29,920
and you know, that's helpful, but like that is unprecedented

1086
01:06:29,960 --> 01:06:33,119
in the twenty first century. It's still so far away

1087
01:06:33,159 --> 01:06:37,599
from where we need to be. This is another thing too,

1088
01:06:38,519 --> 01:06:41,480
we'll add this in before sorry. Do you notice how

1089
01:06:41,719 --> 01:06:45,199
like conservatives and I know I said this to you before,

1090
01:06:45,320 --> 01:06:48,920
conservatives can never wait to declare victory and leave, and

1091
01:06:49,079 --> 01:06:52,199
progressives never declare victory. They no matter how much money

1092
01:06:52,239 --> 01:06:55,960
they get from the government, no matter how much how

1093
01:06:56,039 --> 01:06:58,800
many specials to decide programs they get no matter how

1094
01:06:58,920 --> 01:07:02,840
much Hollywood is just sort of their catechism, you know,

1095
01:07:03,559 --> 01:07:08,199
superimposed upon popular intellectual properties. They never declare a victory.

1096
01:07:08,239 --> 01:07:10,800
They never declare a victory. Whereas as soon as Trump

1097
01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:14,039
gets into office, conservators like, oh, bok era is over,

1098
01:07:14,760 --> 01:07:18,320
America is back baby. Now we're the government. And it's

1099
01:07:18,519 --> 01:07:21,880
just not true. And we have to remind ourselves that

1100
01:07:21,960 --> 01:07:24,360
it's not true. We have to remind ourselves that there

1101
01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:27,199
is a very high probability, I mean almost a certainty

1102
01:07:27,320 --> 01:07:30,599
that you're going to be facing a hostile total state

1103
01:07:31,159 --> 01:07:34,039
or an insolvent total state, both of which are very

1104
01:07:34,280 --> 01:07:37,599
very dangerous if you're the only group in the country

1105
01:07:38,039 --> 01:07:42,159
that is not collectively organizing to defend its interests. And

1106
01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:46,679
I mean and again, that does not make retirement happy,

1107
01:07:46,760 --> 01:07:49,559
and it doesn't make you feel good, you know, indulging

1108
01:07:49,599 --> 01:07:54,880
in all of our kind of well indulgent not to

1109
01:07:54,920 --> 01:07:58,440
be redundant indulgent hobbies or whatever. But it's a reality

1110
01:07:58,519 --> 01:08:01,079
that we have to internalize, and until eternalize that reality,

1111
01:08:01,119 --> 01:08:02,239
I don't know how things change.

1112
01:08:04,639 --> 01:08:08,519
Speaker 3: And honestly, this is again in sort of an atypical

1113
01:08:09,039 --> 01:08:13,119
Curtis Jarvin mode. He's been making this point that, you know,

1114
01:08:13,239 --> 01:08:18,199
Republicans focus on good governance, the Democrats focus on power.

1115
01:08:18,640 --> 01:08:19,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, right.

1116
01:08:19,800 --> 01:08:23,520
Speaker 3: Republicans play as if they are in a reciprocal system

1117
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:25,680
where you know, you're supposed to leave it better than

1118
01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:28,600
you found it, whereas the opposition is playing the zero

1119
01:08:28,720 --> 01:08:33,199
sum game, you know, and to be honest, that seemingly

1120
01:08:33,840 --> 01:08:36,640
is something that you cannot you know, shame or force

1121
01:08:36,760 --> 01:08:40,680
out of the GOP seems to be built in kind

1122
01:08:40,720 --> 01:08:44,479
of a bone deep level. But Dave, we're over time,

1123
01:08:45,119 --> 01:08:47,399
a ton of fun, man, it's great talking to you.

1124
01:08:47,840 --> 01:08:51,520
So obviously we've mentioned your streams, we've mentioned your your articles,

1125
01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:53,960
both of which will be linked on the description. You

1126
01:08:54,039 --> 01:08:57,199
also have Twitter, and I think that's everywhere people can

1127
01:08:57,239 --> 01:08:57,520
find you.

1128
01:08:57,600 --> 01:09:00,439
Speaker 2: Correct, well, almost right, because I started a new kind

1129
01:09:00,439 --> 01:09:05,359
of started a new blog here, so I have, by

1130
01:09:05,399 --> 01:09:08,600
the way, everyone knows me from the YouTube channel the Distributist,

1131
01:09:09,079 --> 01:09:12,119
although my main hub now has moved to substack, meaning

1132
01:09:12,199 --> 01:09:14,880
that you can get the podcasts and the written articles

1133
01:09:14,920 --> 01:09:17,880
on substack, whereas if you do the YouTube thing, you'll

1134
01:09:17,880 --> 01:09:20,960
only get the videos or whatever, and they probably sunset

1135
01:09:21,640 --> 01:09:23,800
and the occasional video. I said that no one watches

1136
01:09:23,880 --> 01:09:27,800
it anymore. In addition to that, I guess I am

1137
01:09:28,159 --> 01:09:32,119
also trying to start a new blog for the California

1138
01:09:32,199 --> 01:09:36,039
chapter of the OGC, the Redwood Society, where and we

1139
01:09:36,159 --> 01:09:39,520
haven't quite started this up yet, but we are trying

1140
01:09:40,279 --> 01:09:45,000
to create a blog focused around community building and positive

1141
01:09:45,039 --> 01:09:50,359
steps forward and developing culture and supporting people in our sphere.

1142
01:09:51,159 --> 01:09:54,279
And this is something that I've cared a lot about,

1143
01:09:54,560 --> 01:09:59,640
and it's hard going because it's a poor entertainment product,

1144
01:09:59,680 --> 01:10:02,560
but I I would suggest you check the work out

1145
01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:06,199
there too, as well as the OGC. More generally, I

1146
01:10:06,439 --> 01:10:10,399
suspect that these organizations, you know, we're looking forward to

1147
01:10:10,439 --> 01:10:14,239
twenty twenty six, I expect that these organizations like Beowolf,

1148
01:10:14,359 --> 01:10:18,159
like Selding's, like Exit Group, like the OGC. Obviously there's

1149
01:10:18,159 --> 01:10:20,760
gonna be a lot of interesting work that is done

1150
01:10:20,800 --> 01:10:25,319
by people under that larger umbrella, even if it's radically different. Right,

1151
01:10:25,399 --> 01:10:27,479
there are a lot of young guys out there that

1152
01:10:27,600 --> 01:10:30,640
are looking at the kind of go in a different

1153
01:10:30,720 --> 01:10:33,920
direction and need to have sort of collective support to

1154
01:10:33,960 --> 01:10:38,039
do that. So I think that'll be very interesting. No,

1155
01:10:38,119 --> 01:10:41,720
I think you're entirely right, Dave. Obviously, all the relevant

1156
01:10:41,760 --> 01:10:45,000
links down the description. As far as my stuff the

1157
01:10:45,079 --> 01:10:48,840
Jay Burtons Show, Apple, Spotify, YouTube, this is what I

1158
01:10:48,920 --> 01:10:50,920
do now. If you want to support me, the episodes

1159
01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:53,520
early in ed free for like five bucks a month

1160
01:10:53,800 --> 01:10:55,920
on Patreon, Substack or gum Road.

1161
01:10:56,119 --> 01:10:59,960
Speaker 3: Not a bad deal. Check out Xus Remote fitness coaching

1162
01:11:00,199 --> 01:11:03,520
run by j d Another you know, another friend of

1163
01:11:03,560 --> 01:11:05,560
the show, Dave. This was a ton of fun, man,

1164
01:11:05,600 --> 01:11:06,439
Thanks so much for coming on.

1165
01:11:06,680 --> 01:11:07,359
Speaker 2: Thanks so much.

1166
01:11:09,039 --> 01:11:11,760
Speaker 3: Everyone at home. Keep your head up. I can't last forever.

1167
01:11:12,079 --> 01:11:12,439
Good night.

1168
01:11:43,399 --> 01:11:46,720
Speaker 1: Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret.

1169
01:11:46,880 --> 01:11:48,600
Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out.

1170
01:11:48,920 --> 01:11:51,119
Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast right now, and it's great.

1171
01:11:51,279 --> 01:11:53,239
Speaker 2: You love the host, You seek it out and download it.

1172
01:11:53,239 --> 01:11:55,960
Speaker 1: You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even

1173
01:11:56,000 --> 01:11:56,800
going to the bathroom.

1174
01:11:57,279 --> 01:12:00,560
Speaker 2: Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a

1175
01:12:00,640 --> 01:12:03,640
podcast ad? Did I get your attention? You can reach

1176
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1180
01:12:16,720 --> 01:12:19,239
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1181
01:12:19,399 --> 01:12:22,199
Speaker 3: That's l I B s y n ads dot com

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Today