1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,040 Speaker 1: Imagine the kind of headlines that would truly shake the world. 2 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:07,400 An object larger than Manhattan is hurtling towards Earth this November, 3 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:12,599 and its trajectory is suspicious. Now, before you reach for 4 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:14,640 the panic button or wonder if we're finally getting our 5 00:00:14,679 --> 00:00:18,760 own Hollywood blockbuster moment, let's take a deep breath. Our 6 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:21,239 mission today is to cut through the sensational noise and 7 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:24,519 really unpack the actual science and the truly fascinating claims 8 00:00:24,559 --> 00:00:28,120 behind such ideas. We're going to explore real scientific observations 9 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:32,039 and some incredibly bold hypotheses about interstellar objects, you know, 10 00:00:32,079 --> 00:00:35,159 those cosmic travelers from far, far beyond our solar system. 11 00:00:35,439 --> 00:00:38,000 And for this deep dive, you've send us some incredible material, 12 00:00:38,039 --> 00:00:41,200 a stack of sources that genuinely challenge our understanding of 13 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:43,960 what's out there. Our goal is to distinguish between what 14 00:00:44,079 --> 00:00:47,119 might be a natural, albeit strange phenomenon, and what could 15 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:50,119 be while something truly astonishing, something that shifts our entire 16 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:52,840 perspective on our place in the cosmos absolutely. 17 00:00:53,079 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 2: And what's truly fascinating here isn't just the objects themselves, 18 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:01,280 but how much we can deduce from often fleeting observations 19 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,799 and how much is still a tantalizing mystery. Even with 20 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:08,719 our most sophisticated data, our Solar system isn't some isolated island. 21 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:11,319 It's more like a bustling port in the Cosmicgosian. Really, 22 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:14,719 objects from other star systems do pass through, but it's 23 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:17,519 exceptionally rare to detect them, let alone study them in 24 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:20,120 any detail. So in this deep dive, we're going to 25 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:23,159 explore three specific examples, two that we've actually observed and 26 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:26,760 one that remains purely hypothetical for now. But all three 27 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:29,680 push the very boundaries of our understanding. They force us 28 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:32,480 to consider possibilities we once thought were purely science fiction. 29 00:01:32,799 --> 00:01:35,319 It really makes us rethink the universe we thought we knew. 30 00:01:35,439 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: All right, let's jump right in. Then, we're starting with 31 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:42,680 a visitor discovered relatively recently July one, twenty twenty five, 32 00:01:42,799 --> 00:01:47,560 by something called the ATLA Survey. Now, for those unfamiliar, 33 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,640 the ATLA Survey is essentially our early warning system for 34 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:55,120 potentially dangerous asteroids. It stands the skies diligently looking for 35 00:01:55,159 --> 00:01:58,560 anything that might, you know, cross Earth's path. When astronomers 36 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:01,519 rush to check the trajectory of this new object, officially 37 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:05,359 designated three IAT lists. The data absolutely stunned them. Its 38 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:08,439 path was hyperbolic. What that means for those of us 39 00:02:08,479 --> 00:02:11,280 who aren't orbital mechanics experts, is that it wasn't looping 40 00:02:11,319 --> 00:02:13,759 around our son like a typical comet or asteroid would 41 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:17,800 bound by our stars gravity. Instead, its trajectory clearly indicated 42 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:20,639 it was simply passing through an uninvited guest, making a 43 00:02:20,719 --> 00:02:21,960 quick flyby. 44 00:02:21,719 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 2: Precisely, and that designation three IYAT lists immediately tells us 45 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:29,639 something significant. It made it only the third interstellar object 46 00:02:29,759 --> 00:02:34,039 we've ever confirmed, following the now famous Umumua and the 47 00:02:34,039 --> 00:02:38,120 more conventional comet Borisov. But here's where three IAT lists 48 00:02:38,159 --> 00:02:40,479 really began to stand out. It came with a few 49 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:44,000 rather peculiar red flags, as some scientists put it. These 50 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:47,759 immediately raised eyebrows among the scientific community, suggesting it was 51 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:50,800 anything but business as usual for an interstellar visitor. 52 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 1: Red flags, you say, Okay, I'm intrigued. What made it 53 00:02:53,719 --> 00:02:56,879 so peculiar beyond just being from another star system? 54 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 2: Well, for starters, its approach was incredibly precise. Unlike most comments, 55 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:03,680 which can kind of dive into our solar system, at 56 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:07,560 owed unpredictable angles. Three Atlas arrived along a plane almost 57 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:09,319 perfectly aligned with the Ecliptic. 58 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 1: The ecliptic, that's the flat plane where all the planet's orbit. 59 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 2: Right, exactly the flat orbital path that all our major 60 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:18,240 planets follow. If we connect this to the bigger picture, 61 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:22,319 this alignment is highly unusual for a natural interstellar object. 62 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:24,800 You'd expect something like that to come in from a 63 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:27,680 totally random direction in three dimensional space. It's sort of 64 00:03:27,719 --> 00:03:30,120 like someone randomly walking into your house, but doing so 65 00:03:30,199 --> 00:03:34,000 precisely along your hallway rather than through a window or 66 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:35,080 even the ceiling. 67 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: Huh. So it's not just coming from outside our system, 68 00:03:38,639 --> 00:03:41,719 but it's also lining up perfectly with our planetary highway. 69 00:03:42,039 --> 00:03:45,759 That certainly feels convenient, almost too neat to be coincidence, 70 00:03:45,759 --> 00:03:46,319 would you, shay? 71 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 2: It does, doesn't it? And it gets even stranger. It 72 00:03:48,759 --> 00:03:49,680 was also moving. 73 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 1: Retrograde retrograde meaning backward. 74 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,759 Speaker 2: Yeah, opposite the direction of our planet's normal orbital travel. 75 00:03:56,319 --> 00:04:00,520 That alone makes interception or just observation trickier, as it's 76 00:04:00,599 --> 00:04:03,719 moving against the grain, so to speak. But then came 77 00:04:03,759 --> 00:04:06,960 what many considered the real kicker. Its computed path would 78 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,319 take it within close range of not just one, but 79 00:04:09,479 --> 00:04:12,400 three major planets, Mars, Venus and Jupiter. 80 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:17,439 Speaker 1: Whoa wait, Mars, Venus and Jupiter all on one pass exactly. 81 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:20,040 Speaker 2: Think about that for a moment. A VI Lobe, he's 82 00:04:20,079 --> 00:04:22,920 a former chair of Harvard's astronomy department, known for some, 83 00:04:23,439 --> 00:04:26,800 let's say, unconventional ideas. He and his co authors ran 84 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:29,639 the numbers on this specific trajectory, and they found that 85 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:33,120 the probability of such close planetary encounters happening purely by 86 00:04:33,199 --> 00:04:37,360 chance is astronomically small, less than zero point zero zero 87 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:39,560 zero zero zero zero five percent. 88 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 1: Wow. Okay, that's a number so small it almost loses meaning. 89 00:04:43,399 --> 00:04:46,199 We're talking about odds comparable to winning the lottery multiple 90 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:48,279 times in a row while also being struck by lightning. 91 00:04:48,319 --> 00:04:51,160 It's almost inconceivable for a random cosmic wanderer. 92 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:56,160 Speaker 2: Precisely, given this extreme improbability, Lobe's conclusion, as articulated in 93 00:04:56,199 --> 00:04:59,079 the sources you shared, is that this trajectory is quote 94 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:02,519 totally deliberate. He argues that if we send a probe 95 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:04,920 to another star system, we would probably try to do 96 00:05:04,959 --> 00:05:08,120 something very similar. You design this trajectory to maximize the 97 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:11,720 scientific return by studying as many exoplanets as possible on 98 00:05:11,759 --> 00:05:12,240 the way through. 99 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: Okay, that makes sense from an engineering perspective efficiency. 100 00:05:15,199 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 2: Right, And he even pointed out that we've essentially already 101 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:20,839 done this with our own voyager probes. Voyager two specifically 102 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:24,519 executed a grand tour, flying by all four gas giants 103 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:28,399 in one go, a highly efficient trajectory designed to maximize 104 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,560 scientific return. So in that regard, the path of three 105 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:36,040 Ialysis is suspiciously efficient. It's velocity about sixty kilometers per 106 00:05:36,079 --> 00:05:38,639 second as it enters and exits our system. Well, it 107 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:43,040 lines up precisely for gravitational assists or even possible deceleration 108 00:05:43,439 --> 00:05:45,399 to achieve such a multiplanet flyby. 109 00:05:45,519 --> 00:05:47,319 Speaker 1: So the argument here is that this isn't just a 110 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:49,920 random rock drifting through space. It's performing a kind of 111 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:53,519 cosmic ballet with a clear deliberate purpose, like a probe 112 00:05:53,519 --> 00:05:55,959 designed to gather as much information as possible from our 113 00:05:55,959 --> 00:05:56,639 solar system. 114 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 2: That's the core of Lobes argument. Yeah, he suggests that 115 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:01,639 the three iatlis can perform what's known as a reverse 116 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:02,800 solar ort maneuver. 117 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: A reverse ort maneuver, what's that? 118 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:09,399 Speaker 2: Basically, it's where a spacecraft fires its engines, right, at 119 00:06:09,439 --> 00:06:13,240 its pearihelion, its closest point to the Sun. It does 120 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:16,199 this to drastically change its orbit, not to leave the 121 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,680 Solar System faster, but actually to stay within it. It's 122 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:23,079 a highly efficient way to decelerate and become gravitationally bound 123 00:06:23,079 --> 00:06:23,560 to a star. 124 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:26,439 Speaker 1: Okay, so using the Sun's gravity and a well timed 125 00:06:26,519 --> 00:06:28,240 engine burn to break exactly. 126 00:06:28,439 --> 00:06:32,959 Speaker 2: And here's where the narrative takes an even more intriguing turn. Conveniently, 127 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,759 when three I Atlas hits perihelion on October twenty ninth, 128 00:06:37,079 --> 00:06:39,279 it'll be hidden behind the Sun from Earth's view. 129 00:06:39,399 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 1: Mmmmm, convenient. 130 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 2: Indeed, Lowe proposes that this could be the perfect stealthy 131 00:06:44,519 --> 00:06:47,800 moment for an alien probe to slow down, perhaps even 132 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:51,279 adjust its course, and potentially approach Earth by late November. 133 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:55,319 Speaker 1: A stealthy maneuver hidden behind the Sun. That certainly adds 134 00:06:55,319 --> 00:06:58,199 a layer of dramatic flare to the hypothesis. And you 135 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:00,519 mentioned its size earlier, how a normal so are we talking? 136 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:01,480 Give us some perspective. 137 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:03,879 Speaker 2: The estimates put it around twenty kilometers in diameter. 138 00:07:03,959 --> 00:07:05,480 Speaker 1: Twenty kilometers that's huge. 139 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:09,759 Speaker 2: It's absolutely enormous by interstellar standards. At least two orders 140 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,360 of magnitude larger than umamua, which we'll get to in 141 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:15,360 a moment. If it's a natural object, it's an unusually 142 00:07:15,439 --> 00:07:17,879 large one to have just drifted here randomly. But if 143 00:07:17,879 --> 00:07:22,319 it's artificial, then Lobsy's term for it, a dreadnought, feels 144 00:07:22,319 --> 00:07:26,040 remarkably fitting. It implies a vessel built for serious business, 145 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,839 a truly massive piece of engineering. The sheer scale makes 146 00:07:29,879 --> 00:07:30,560 it stand out. 147 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: Okay, with such compelling arguments for a deliberate trajectory, the 148 00:07:35,199 --> 00:07:39,360 sheer size and the potential for these stealk maneuvers, it 149 00:07:39,399 --> 00:07:41,879 makes you wonder why we're not seeing headlines about governments 150 00:07:41,879 --> 00:07:44,360 bracing for an alien arrival, doesn't it? Why aren't we 151 00:07:44,399 --> 00:07:47,480 seeing more widespread panic in the streets if these claims 152 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:49,319 are so scientifically compelling. 153 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:53,199 Speaker 2: Indeed, and that's why the scientific community sort of shifts gears, 154 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:57,040 because while Lob's ideas are certainly provocative and they absolutely 155 00:07:57,079 --> 00:08:00,199 capture the imagination, more recent observations have pained at a 156 00:08:00,279 --> 00:08:04,439 very different and frankly firmly natural picture. The primary counter 157 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:06,720 evidence that points to a natural origin for three i 158 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:08,920 Atlis is quite straightforward. 159 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 1: Okay, let's hear the counter argument. 160 00:08:10,959 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 2: More recent higher resolution observations show that it has both 161 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:17,959 a coma that fuzzy atmosphere around a comet's nucleus. 162 00:08:18,079 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 1: Right, The hazy bit and. 163 00:08:19,399 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 2: A distinct dust tail both are telltale signs of outgassing 164 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:25,480 is it warms up near the Sun. It's exactly what 165 00:08:25,519 --> 00:08:27,560 you'd expect from a comet made of ice and dust 166 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,920 heating up. Furthermore, it's spectrum, which is like a chemical 167 00:08:30,959 --> 00:08:34,320 fingerprint of its composition, what it's made of. Precisely, It 168 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:37,480 spectrum matches that of carbon riche ICs, not some exotic 169 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:42,480 alien alloys or sophisticated spacecraft surfaces we might imagine for 170 00:08:42,799 --> 00:08:43,679 alien probe. 171 00:08:43,759 --> 00:08:46,799 Speaker 1: So it's literally behaving like a comet and looking like 172 00:08:46,879 --> 00:08:49,080 a comet, even if it is from another star system. 173 00:08:49,279 --> 00:08:51,639 That makes a lot of sense. It's an interstellar comet, 174 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:53,799 so it's not going to be identical to one formed 175 00:08:53,799 --> 00:08:56,440 in our own solar system. Right, we're looking at material 176 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:58,279 from different cosmic nurseries after. 177 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:02,679 Speaker 2: All, exactly right, And that unusual trajectory that seems so deliberate, 178 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:06,000 it might not be a cosmic plot after all. Some 179 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:08,600 researchers have pointed out a significant factor we have to 180 00:09:08,639 --> 00:09:10,759 consider observational bias. 181 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 1: Observational bias, How does that work here? 182 00:09:13,519 --> 00:09:16,559 Speaker 2: Well, our telescopes are far more likely to detect interstellar 183 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,320 objects if they happen to pass through the ecliptic plane 184 00:09:19,759 --> 00:09:22,600 near the inner planets and maybe coming from certain directions 185 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:26,799 like near the galactic center. In Layman's terms, our detection 186 00:09:26,919 --> 00:09:29,480 capabilities are just very good at finding stuff in the 187 00:09:29,519 --> 00:09:33,320 specific area where we found three iatlis. It's potentially a 188 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:36,679 matter of selection effects in our observation methods rather than 189 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:39,600 any deliberate intent on the part of the object itself. 190 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:42,600 It's simply easier for us to spot things when they 191 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,440 are illuminated just so and in the right part of 192 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:47,080 the sky for our instruments. 193 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:49,759 Speaker 1: Uh okay, So we're basically looking under the street light, 194 00:09:49,799 --> 00:09:52,039 and that's where we found it, not necessarily because it 195 00:09:52,039 --> 00:09:53,080 aimed for the street light. 196 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:56,039 Speaker 2: That's a good analogy. Yeah, it doesn't rule out Lob's 197 00:09:56,080 --> 00:10:00,120 idea entirely, but it provides a plausible natural explanation or 198 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:03,240 why we saw it where we did. So the evidence 199 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:05,919 seems to be piling up for a natural explanation, even 200 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:08,799 if it's an incredibly rare and fascinating. 201 00:10:08,279 --> 00:10:11,679 Speaker 1: One right, still amazing, just maybe not alien amazing. 202 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:15,399 Speaker 2: That's the prevailing view, and the ultimate confirmation will come 203 00:10:15,519 --> 00:10:18,639 very soon when late October arrives. If three i at 204 00:10:18,639 --> 00:10:21,639 lists doesn't fire its engines, but instead continues to gain 205 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:25,600 an even bigger, more definitive cometary tail as it rounds 206 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:28,799 the Sun, well well, no, for sure, it's not aliens. 207 00:10:29,039 --> 00:10:31,919 It'll just be a natural interstellar comet, albeit one that 208 00:10:32,279 --> 00:10:34,919 arrived from the deep freeze between the stars with quite 209 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:38,399 a dramatic and peculiar entrance. Okay, and there's another point 210 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:43,919 that strengthens this natural explanation, the design argument. Think about it. 211 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:48,320 Engineers of an actual alien interstellar probe probably wouldn't cover 212 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:51,080 its surface with volatiles just to mimic a comet and 213 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:52,639 make it out gas. Why would they? 214 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems counterintuitive. If you want to observe or 215 00:10:55,159 --> 00:10:56,759 maneuver precisely. 216 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:58,679 Speaker 2: Exactly, they would most likely make their probe as stealthy 217 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:01,759 as possible, maybe designed to be peculiar and unnatural in 218 00:11:01,879 --> 00:11:06,080 form According to their engineering principles, it could potentially change 219 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:10,480 speed for course correction without any visible exhaust, using technology 220 00:11:10,519 --> 00:11:13,279 we don't understand yet, which raises an important question, really, 221 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:15,960 what would a real probe look like if it were 222 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:16,960 designed with such intent? 223 00:11:17,159 --> 00:11:23,039 Speaker 1: Which brings us neatly to our original gangster interstellar guest, Umuamoa. 224 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:26,879 Compared to the potential drama around the three ls, Umuahmoa 225 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:30,919 almost looks well, maybe not ordinary, but certainly different. 226 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 2: Our first confirmed interstellar visitor. 227 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 1: Right discovered back in October twenty seventeen by the Pan 228 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:40,720 Star's telescope in Hawaii, and right away they knew it 229 00:11:40,759 --> 00:11:43,480 wasn't from anywhere around here. It came diving in from 230 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:47,279 high above the ecliptic plane. They named it Umuamua, which 231 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:51,080 is Hawaiian for scout or messenger from afar arriving first. 232 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:54,279 Speaker 2: A fitting name, really, it really was, and Umama immediately 233 00:11:54,279 --> 00:11:58,000 presented its own set of weird factors that fueled speculation. 234 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: Okay, what was so weird about Umama? I? Remember, the 235 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:01,480 shape was a big deal. 236 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:03,879 Speaker 2: The shape was definitely number one. We couldn't see it directly, 237 00:12:03,879 --> 00:12:06,159 of course, just a point of light, but its brightness 238 00:12:06,159 --> 00:12:09,960 fluctuated rapidly and dramatically as it moved. This suggested an 239 00:12:10,039 --> 00:12:14,120 elongated object tumbling end over end through space. The models 240 00:12:14,159 --> 00:12:17,080 trying to explain these brightness variations led to some wildly 241 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:21,200 strange and wildly different possibilities like one. Some suggested a long, 242 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:25,039 thin cigar shape, maybe two hundred meters long but only 243 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:29,600 twenty meters wide, extremely elongated. Others proposed it might be 244 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,519 more like a big, flat pancake spinning like a frisbee 245 00:12:32,519 --> 00:12:36,440 through space. Neither geometry fits anything we've ever seen naturally 246 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,720 formed in space before. We just don't see asteroids or 247 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:42,320 comets with those kinds of extreme aspect ratios. 248 00:12:42,519 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: Cigar or pancake both sound unnatural for a space rock. 249 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:49,799 Speaker 2: They really do. But the weirdness didn't stop there, Unlike 250 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:53,080 three iye atlists. Umuamua definitely didn't gain a visible tail 251 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:55,960 as it passed the sun nocoma, no dust, none observed. 252 00:12:56,159 --> 00:12:58,799 It wasn't shedding ice or dust in any detectable way. 253 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:01,360 But this is a big but it showed a slight 254 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,519 the detectable acceleration after it passed the sun, a little 255 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:07,240 nudge pushing it away faster than gravity alone could explain. 256 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:10,639 Speaker 1: Okay, wait, no tail, but it accelerated. How Usually that 257 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,720 acceleration in comets comes from the jets of gas and dust, right, 258 00:13:13,799 --> 00:13:16,360 the outgassing acts like tiny rocket exactly. 259 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:18,919 Speaker 2: So the acceleration wasn't due to gravity, and it wasn't 260 00:13:18,919 --> 00:13:21,519 from ice jets, because again, no tail, no coma. It 261 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:24,679 was just this faint push of unknown origin that altered 262 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:27,159 its trajectory slightly as it left our solar system. 263 00:13:27,399 --> 00:13:32,279 Speaker 1: Huh, strange shape, no tail, mysterious acceleration. That's a recipe 264 00:13:32,279 --> 00:13:33,639 for speculation, you. 265 00:13:33,639 --> 00:13:37,320 Speaker 2: Bet it is. And that's when Avilobe really entered the chat, 266 00:13:37,399 --> 00:13:41,080 as they say, With a now famous paper, he proposed 267 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:45,159 that Umua might actually be an artificial object preaps a 268 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:48,519 light sail, a very thin flat sheet designed to be 269 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:52,679 propelled by sunlight or maybe starlight in interstellar space. That 270 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:55,720 could explain the pancake shape and the slight acceleration from 271 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:57,080 solar radiation pressure. 272 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,919 Speaker 1: Maybe a light sale from another star system wow. 273 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:04,039 Speaker 2: Or alternatively, he suggested, maybe it was a proper spaceship 274 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,879 whose systems perhaps awoke near our Sun for some kind 275 00:14:06,879 --> 00:14:09,840 of maintenance or a slight course correction, causing that little push. 276 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:12,600 In Lobe's view, as he stated quite strongly, it wasn't 277 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:15,159 natural at all, and our academia just failed to see it. 278 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:18,039 Speaker 1: Okay, let's unpack this. That's a pretty bold claim, almost 279 00:14:18,039 --> 00:14:21,320 a sick alien burn on the scientific community, as the 280 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:23,559 Outline put it. After that kind of statement, what did 281 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:25,440 other scientists say? How did they push back? 282 00:14:25,519 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 2: Well, the scientific community definitely pushed back, proposing several plausible, 283 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:35,080 if still somewhat exotic, natural explanations. One prominent idea was 284 00:14:35,159 --> 00:14:36,200 hydrogen outgassing. 285 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 1: Hydrogen like the most common element exactly. 286 00:14:39,559 --> 00:14:42,639 Speaker 2: The theory goes that perhaps Umuamua was rich in molecular 287 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:46,759 hydrogen ice H two. Hydrogen is nearly invisible in space, 288 00:14:47,279 --> 00:14:49,519 especially in the small amounts that would be needed here, 289 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,399 so it's outgassing as it warmed near the sun. Wouldn't 290 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:56,720 leave a visible tail of dust or other common commentary molecules, 291 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,639 but crucially, it could still produce that small non gravitational 292 00:15:00,679 --> 00:15:04,080 acceleration observed. This led to the term dark commet. 293 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: A dark comet interesting so behaving like a comet chemically 294 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:10,080 but invisibly potentially yes. 295 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:14,919 Speaker 2: Another idea involved fractured ices. Some researchers suggested its strange 296 00:15:14,919 --> 00:15:17,639 shape and tumbling motion could have come from fractured nitrogen 297 00:15:17,679 --> 00:15:21,200 ice or maybe other carbon rich ices. Imagine a chunk 298 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:23,799 broken off from a Pluto like planet in another solar 299 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:27,159 system during some ancient collision. These shards could potentially form 300 00:15:27,159 --> 00:15:30,679 elongated or flattened shapes, and might have odd reflective properties 301 00:15:30,679 --> 00:15:32,360 depending on their composition and structure. 302 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:36,559 Speaker 1: Okay, so pieces of an alien Pluto. Essentially, that's also 303 00:15:36,679 --> 00:15:38,360 pretty exotic, but still natural. 304 00:15:38,519 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 2: Exactly exotic, yes, but plausible within the known laws of 305 00:15:42,159 --> 00:15:47,559 physics and planetary science. So where does the consensus lie 306 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:49,120 now on Umahmua. 307 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:52,639 Speaker 1: It's still weird, right, it absolutely is. Umama is definitely 308 00:15:52,919 --> 00:15:55,639 still weird and still the subject of debate. There's no 309 00:15:55,840 --> 00:16:00,399 single universally accepted explanation yet. However, the scientific concept has 310 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:04,879 leaned firmly towards a natural origin strange, yes, but not engineered. 311 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 2: The exotic spacecraft explanation, while exciting, now seems less likely 312 00:16:09,639 --> 00:16:12,799 to most researchers than the messy, chaotic chemistry and physics 313 00:16:12,799 --> 00:16:15,000 of the universe producing something truly unusual. 314 00:16:15,159 --> 00:16:17,399 Speaker 1: But there's a bit of a bitter note here, isn't there? 315 00:16:17,519 --> 00:16:19,919 Speaker 2: There is will likely never know for sure. Um Wamu 316 00:16:20,039 --> 00:16:22,240 is long gone, hurtling out of our solar system at 317 00:16:22,279 --> 00:16:24,399 incredible speed. We didn't get a close up look. We 318 00:16:24,399 --> 00:16:27,000 couldn't send a mission to photograph it or sample it. 319 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:30,039 It was just too fast discover too late. It remains 320 00:16:30,039 --> 00:16:30,960 an enigma. 321 00:16:30,799 --> 00:16:33,279 Speaker 1: That does leave a bitter taste, doesn't it? The one 322 00:16:33,279 --> 00:16:36,840 that got away? But this leads us to a fascinating question. 323 00:16:37,519 --> 00:16:41,960 If one day we really encounter an alien interstellar probe, 324 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:45,759 what would it look like in actual telescope data, not 325 00:16:45,879 --> 00:16:48,360 in sci fi with the flashing lights and laser beams 326 00:16:48,399 --> 00:16:51,039 we imagine, but based on what we'd actually be able 327 00:16:51,039 --> 00:16:53,679 to gather with our current and near future technology. What 328 00:16:53,799 --> 00:16:56,240 kind of anomalies would be enough to finally say, yes, 329 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,679 this isn't a rock, this was engineered. Let's imagine, or 330 00:16:59,759 --> 00:17:03,399 rather scientifically project, together a couple of scenarios based on 331 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:04,000 the sources. 332 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:07,039 Speaker 2: This is where we delve into the realm of hypothetical visitors, 333 00:17:07,279 --> 00:17:10,480 based on current scientific understanding and the kind of anomalies 334 00:17:10,519 --> 00:17:14,319 that would truly define natural explanation. These are scenarios designed 335 00:17:14,319 --> 00:17:17,039 to push us beyond the weird but natural category we 336 00:17:17,079 --> 00:17:20,720 saw with Umoa and probably three iyelis. Let's start with 337 00:17:20,759 --> 00:17:23,720 scenario one. We'll call it seven Eye Helena the Silent. 338 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:25,799 Speaker 1: Passerby Helena Okay, set the scene. 339 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 2: Imagine it all began as just another automated alert flag 340 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,359 sometime in say, twenty twenty seven, by the vers Reuben 341 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:37,200 Observatory in Chile, a powerful new survey telescope. A fast 342 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:40,519 moving object had entered the Solar System from an interstellar trajectory, 343 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:43,920 moving and a whopping eighty one kilometers per second, really 344 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:44,559 booking it. 345 00:17:44,599 --> 00:17:46,519 Speaker 1: Faster than three iyelists. 346 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,799 Speaker 2: Even insiderably faster. At first, though maybe no one gave 347 00:17:49,839 --> 00:17:52,559 it much attention. Its estimated diameter was only about one 348 00:17:52,599 --> 00:17:56,119 hundred meters, even smaller than Uma moa quite unremarkable in size. 349 00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:59,160 Its orbit was hyperbolic, inbound from deep space at a 350 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:02,759 steep angle aim towards the inner Solar System. The International 351 00:18:02,799 --> 00:18:06,559 Astronomical Union names the object seven IE Helena, And initially 352 00:18:06,599 --> 00:18:09,680 maybe we're thinking, okay, intercellar business as usual, Probably a 353 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:13,079 small asteroid, maybe a bit elongated, but nothing too fancy. 354 00:18:13,279 --> 00:18:16,079 But then as more observations came in, the anomalies began 355 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:16,680 to stack up. 356 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 1: Always the anomalies, that's when things shift from interesting to 357 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:23,119 profoundly puzzling. What exactly were these anomalies for Helena? 358 00:18:23,319 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 2: Well, first, its reflectivity was completely off the charts, Helena 359 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,559 was much much brighter than any natural object of its 360 00:18:30,559 --> 00:18:33,960 size should have been. It's albedo, how reflective its surface 361 00:18:34,079 --> 00:18:35,200 is exceeded point. 362 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:39,559 Speaker 1: Nine point nine. That's incredibly reflective, like polished metal or 363 00:18:39,599 --> 00:18:40,559 fresh snow. 364 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:43,279 Speaker 2: Even more reflective than fresh snow, which is around point eight. 365 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:46,200 So yeah, smoother and more reflective than any comet or 366 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:49,359 asteroid we'd ever cataloged, almost like a perfect mirror, and 367 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:53,160 yet it emitted no measurable heat. Infrared telescopes, even ones 368 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:56,160 as sensitive as the James web Space telescope designed to 369 00:18:56,160 --> 00:19:00,720 pick up faint thermal signatures, they detected virtually nothing. Helena 370 00:19:00,799 --> 00:19:02,960 wasn't heating up as it fell towards the sun. Instead, 371 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,480 it stayed far too cold, like a mirror, just reflecting 372 00:19:05,519 --> 00:19:08,119 all incoming light without absorbing any energy. 373 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:12,400 Speaker 1: So incredibly reflective but no detectable heat signature. That's a 374 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:16,039 truly strange combination for a natural rock tumbling through space. 375 00:19:16,079 --> 00:19:18,920 It really defies our understanding of how objects typically interact 376 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:20,240 with solar radiation. 377 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:24,039 Speaker 2: Precisely, and while scientists scrambled yet again to come up 378 00:19:24,039 --> 00:19:27,920 with plausible natural explanations, maybe a piece of highly polished 379 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:31,519 metal rich exoplanet sharred or an extremely rare type of 380 00:19:31,519 --> 00:19:35,000 crystalline ice. Things like that, Helena's motion changed in a 381 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:38,960 way that truly cemented its anomalous nature. You see natural 382 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:42,279 objects tumble chaotically after millions or billions of years in space, 383 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,440 just like Umumua did. But this one Helena began to 384 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:51,240 stabilize its spin slowly, deliberately. It decelerated its rotation. Then 385 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:54,119 it locked into a fixed orientation with respect to the Sun. 386 00:19:54,279 --> 00:19:55,880 Speaker 1: It stopped tumbling and pointed. 387 00:19:55,599 --> 00:19:59,079 Speaker 2: Itself exactly, and shortly after that its trajectory began to 388 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:03,160 curve softly but undeniably. The deviation wasn't chaotic like what 389 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,119 we'd expect from sublumand gases on a comet. No, it 390 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:08,319 was precise. It was the kind of shift caused by 391 00:20:08,319 --> 00:20:11,599 solar radiation pressure acting on a structure designed to catch light, 392 00:20:11,799 --> 00:20:15,400 like wind in a sail, in other words, a. 393 00:20:14,599 --> 00:20:17,759 Speaker 1: A solar sale, just like Loeb speculated for Umwua, but 394 00:20:17,839 --> 00:20:20,920 this time with even clearer evidence of deliberate orientation and 395 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:22,079 maneuvering precisely. 396 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:24,119 Speaker 2: And I can only imagine Professor AUVII Loo would publish 397 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:25,559 another paper on this one too, Right. 398 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,519 Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely, you can bet he did, claiming it was 399 00:20:28,519 --> 00:20:33,240 definitely an alien probe, though maybe skeptics still weren't entirely 400 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:36,359 convinced at this stage, desperately trying to find any remaining 401 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:38,880 natural explanation, however outlandish. 402 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,759 Speaker 2: So Helena reaches its perihelium, passing quite close to the Sun, 403 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:45,799 it slips behind the solar disk and vanishes from Earth 404 00:20:45,839 --> 00:20:49,279 based view, just like the hypothetical maneuver for three iye atless. 405 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:51,640 Speaker 1: But maybe not from all instruments exactly. 406 00:20:52,519 --> 00:20:55,640 Speaker 2: Maybe the Parker solar probe, which flies incredibly close to 407 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:58,519 the Sun, and the s HO satellite positioned out at 408 00:20:58,519 --> 00:21:01,440 the l one lagrange point. Maybe they continue tracking it 409 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,799 and what they see doesn't resemble any natural object. Its 410 00:21:04,839 --> 00:21:09,319 silhouette is thin, symmetrical and perfectly stable. No outbursts, no 411 00:21:09,519 --> 00:21:13,240 thermal anomalies, just the sleek engineered disc passing cleanly through 412 00:21:13,279 --> 00:21:15,599 one of the most hostile environments in the Solar System. 413 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,880 Speaker 1: A stable, symmetrical disc with no thermal signature, and a 414 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:22,359 deliberate trajectory change consistent with the solar sail. That's a 415 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:25,559 pretty strong combination of clues, even for the most skeptical mind. 416 00:21:25,839 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 2: It really starts to scraen natural explanations to the breaking point, 417 00:21:29,599 --> 00:21:32,799 and then the final perhaps undeniable piece of the puzzle 418 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:36,319 on its outbound leg as it leads the inner Solar system, 419 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,799 it accelerates again. Clocked it over one hundred kilometers per second, 420 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,799 just incredibly fast. Its new trajectory isn't random either. It's 421 00:21:43,839 --> 00:21:46,680 shifting across the ecliptic plane, veering away from the Sun 422 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:51,279 and accelerating out towards the Veila constellation, a very specific destination. 423 00:21:51,599 --> 00:21:55,279 And that's when it happened. What happened, A single infinitesimally 424 00:21:55,319 --> 00:21:59,279 short nanosecond laser pulse strikes the Allen telescope array or 425 00:21:59,319 --> 00:22:02,960 a similar setting facility. It's narrowband, meaning it occupies a 426 00:22:03,079 --> 00:22:07,119 very specific frequency, not like natural radio noise, and it's 427 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:10,559 precisely aligned with Helena's location at that exact moment. It 428 00:22:10,599 --> 00:22:13,160 doesn't contain any obvious structure, no repeating pattern. But it 429 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,119 also wasn't natural. It was a deliberate, one time emission, 430 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:17,079 a distinct signal. 431 00:22:17,319 --> 00:22:20,880 Speaker 1: Wow. This is where it gets profoundly chilling. A deliberate 432 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,799 single pulse. It almost sounds like a cosmic hello, but 433 00:22:23,839 --> 00:22:26,000 one without any discernible content like a ping. 434 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:30,759 Speaker 2: It definitely gets chilling. Whatever it was that signal, combined 435 00:22:30,759 --> 00:22:33,920 with all the other anomalies, the reflectivity, the lack of heat, 436 00:22:34,279 --> 00:22:38,119 the maneuvering, the shape, it was enough you could imagine 437 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:42,079 a press release going viral within minutes. A senior analyst 438 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:46,039 at SETI, the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence project maybe now 439 00:22:46,079 --> 00:22:50,160 refocused on communication with extraterrestrial intelligence, summing it up something 440 00:22:50,319 --> 00:22:53,759 like it is now considered highly likely that Helena was 441 00:22:53,799 --> 00:22:57,400 an engineered probe of extraterrestrial origin. It also knew we 442 00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:58,440 were watching and. 443 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:00,799 Speaker 1: Sent us a message, and the message is content. 444 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 2: Indecipherable, basically just noise, a single non repeating burst of 445 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:08,079 energy at a specific frequency. And by the time top 446 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:11,640 cryptographers had maybe confirmed its artificiality one hundred times over 447 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,720 with all sorts of AI analysis, Helena was long gone. 448 00:23:14,839 --> 00:23:17,759 It never slowed or changed course to approach Earth. It 449 00:23:17,839 --> 00:23:21,039 simply wasn't Helena's mission to engage us directly. The mission 450 00:23:21,079 --> 00:23:24,000 was apparently to use our sun for a gravitational slingshot 451 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,799 maneuver and leave for whatever system it was truly aimed 452 00:23:26,839 --> 00:23:28,720 at in the Villa constellation. 453 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:32,759 Speaker 1: So a drive by communication. Then it saw us, acknowledged 454 00:23:32,839 --> 00:23:35,839 us in some fundamental, minimal way, and just kept going. 455 00:23:36,079 --> 00:23:40,240 That's profoundly unsettling. It almost feels like the cold, impersonal nod. 456 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 2: The most unsettling part was precisely that Helena's so called 457 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,880 greeting to us was basically just noise a ping. It 458 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,559 implies too equally disquieting possibilities, doesn't it Either it knew 459 00:23:51,599 --> 00:23:54,359 we were here, but didn't bother to truly speak, maybe 460 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,000 deeming us not worth the effort, or too primitive, or 461 00:23:57,319 --> 00:23:59,559 perhaps even worse, it didn't even care about us as 462 00:23:59,559 --> 00:24:02,799 intelligent beings at all. Maybe it was just an automated probing, 463 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,119 like an alien entity poking our planet with a stick 464 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,200 to see if something moves, registering our detection systems, and 465 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:08,799 then moving on. 466 00:24:09,079 --> 00:24:13,039 Speaker 1: That second one feels worse somehow, just automated indifference. 467 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 2: It does, and this raises an incredibly important question for us, 468 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,160 one that many scholars and scientists have demated for decades. 469 00:24:21,279 --> 00:24:23,839 If this scenario were real, what do we do then? 470 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,759 Do we try sending radio signals towards Villa, towards Helena's 471 00:24:27,759 --> 00:24:31,960 possible point of origin, inviting potential contact, knowing they possess 472 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,319 technology far beyond ours, or do we sit in complete 473 00:24:35,319 --> 00:24:38,279 silence hoping that its advanced creators never detected our own 474 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,720 Nissan satellites or radar pings or radiomissions In the first place. 475 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,440 This is where the dark forest hypothesis enters the conversation, Right. 476 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,759 Speaker 1: Ah, the dark forest. That's a concept I find particularly 477 00:24:48,839 --> 00:24:51,279 chilling for our listeners who might not be familiar. Can 478 00:24:51,279 --> 00:24:54,319 you quickly explain what that hypothesis entails and why it's 479 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:56,440 so relevant to Helena's fleeting visit? 480 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,519 Speaker 2: Sure? The dark forest hypothesis, popularized by this science fiction 481 00:25:00,559 --> 00:25:04,839 author Lewis Sixon, paints a really stark picture of interstellar relations. 482 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,559 It posits that the universe is like a dark forest, 483 00:25:07,599 --> 00:25:11,119 filled with many hidden civilizations hunters hiding in the shadows. 484 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:15,400 Each civilization views all others as a potential existential threat, 485 00:25:15,599 --> 00:25:19,240 because any growing, expanding civilization could eventually pose a danger 486 00:25:19,279 --> 00:25:23,160 competing for resources or simply through its very existence. Therefore, 487 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,519 the safest strategy is to remain silent, to hide, don't 488 00:25:26,519 --> 00:25:29,519 make a sound, and if you do detect another civilization, 489 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:33,319 the most rational act from a purely survivalist standpoint might 490 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:35,640 be to eliminate it quickly and silently before it can 491 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:36,200 eliminate you. 492 00:25:36,519 --> 00:25:38,799 Speaker 1: A cosmic game of hide and seek where the stakes 493 00:25:38,799 --> 00:25:40,039 are annihilation. 494 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:44,759 Speaker 2: Grim, extremely grim. So if Helena's creators are indeed operating 495 00:25:44,799 --> 00:25:48,200 under such a principle, then signaling our presence or even 496 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:52,559 acknowledging theirs could inadvertently trigger something we are utterly unprepared 497 00:25:52,559 --> 00:25:55,680 to face. The true terror might not be a hostile 498 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,000 invasion fleet showing up, but rather the chilling realization that 499 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,400 we're either beneath the notice or that acknowledging our presence 500 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,720 could inadvertently paint a target on our back. The universe, 501 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,680 it seems, might be far less interested in us than 502 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,680 we are in it. It's a profound dilemma. Do we 503 00:26:11,759 --> 00:26:14,119 shout into the forest or do we hold our breath 504 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:14,880 and stay hidden. 505 00:26:15,079 --> 00:26:17,559 Speaker 1: That's a heavy thought, and one that really shifts our 506 00:26:17,599 --> 00:26:21,599 cosmic perspective from hopeful discovery to potential peril. But wait, 507 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:23,839 you mentioned a second scenario earlier. Does it get even 508 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,079 creepier than a silent, unreadable greeting and that chilling implications 509 00:26:27,079 --> 00:26:27,960 of a dark forest? 510 00:26:28,079 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 2: Oh, it certainly does. If you think this scenario of 511 00:26:30,519 --> 00:26:32,599 a real alien fly by is creepy. Wait till I 512 00:26:32,599 --> 00:26:34,200 give you the other one, the one where our alien 513 00:26:34,319 --> 00:26:37,920 visitor not only stays, but starts to make itself at home, 514 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,599 or rather start making more of itself. Let's call this 515 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,880 scenario two thirty I eribs the settler. 516 00:26:43,559 --> 00:26:46,440 Speaker 1: Probes arabis subtler probes. 517 00:26:46,839 --> 00:26:48,279 Speaker 2: Okay, this already sounds ominous. 518 00:26:48,559 --> 00:26:51,119 Speaker 1: Imagine it arrived just after the new year of say 519 00:26:51,319 --> 00:26:54,599 twenty thirty three, first notice by maybe a small dedicated 520 00:26:54,599 --> 00:26:58,680 telescope array in southern Argentina. The object is inbound fast 521 00:26:58,759 --> 00:27:02,160 on a hyperbolic path, just like the others. Estimated size 522 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,599 maybe ten kilometers in diameter, speed and the tens of 523 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,240 kilometers per second, much like three I at lists initially looked, 524 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,160 it comes in from the direction of the galactic plane, 525 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,559 just a few degrees above the ecliptic, and for the 526 00:27:12,599 --> 00:27:15,400 first few days it looks like yet another interstellar comment. 527 00:27:15,759 --> 00:27:18,599 We even see its surface starting to evaporate and outgas 528 00:27:18,599 --> 00:27:20,799 a bit, but maybe not that much, which raises a 529 00:27:20,799 --> 00:27:23,160 couple of eyebrows. For a body of its apparent size, 530 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,160 it seems a little undirective. 531 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 2: So initially just another weird rock from outer space showing 532 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,119 some mild commentary activity, but maybe something feels a little off. 533 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,799 What changed this time to elevate it from weird to terrifying? 534 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:40,519 And then the object suddenly did exactly what ave Low 535 00:27:40,599 --> 00:27:42,839 predicted three a at lists might do back in October 536 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,319 twenty twenty five, but didn't. As it neared the Sun, 537 00:27:46,599 --> 00:27:50,799 it began to decelerate significantly, not from gravity, not from 538 00:27:50,839 --> 00:27:54,759 any significant outgassing that could explain it. This was controlled, 539 00:27:55,039 --> 00:27:59,279 deliberate breaking, executed precisely at perihelium, that closest point to 540 00:27:59,319 --> 00:28:02,000 the Sun where an object can most efficiently alter its 541 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:06,519 trajectory using minimal energy. It performed a reverse solar ort maneuver, 542 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,559 dropping the object out of its hyperbolic escape path and 543 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,960 into a stable orbit around our Sun. It effectively became 544 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,359 a permanent resident of our solar system. Wow, okay, so 545 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,200 it stayed. That's a game changer right there, huge game changer. 546 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,480 And then it turned yet again. Our telescopes caught it 547 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:25,240 heading for sixteen Psyche. Psyche, the big metal asteroid, exactly 548 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:27,559 one of the largest metallic asteroids in our main belt, 549 00:28:27,559 --> 00:28:30,599 a massive chunk of exposed nickel, iron, and other rare elements. 550 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,440 Nasay had already planned a mission there Psyche to explore 551 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,359 its unique composition. But this object, whatever it was, got 552 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,640 there first arrived in a matter of days. 553 00:28:38,559 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 1: So it didn't just stay. It specifically parked itself around 554 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,759 a giant metal asteroid. That's incredibly specific. It sounds like 555 00:28:44,759 --> 00:28:47,240 it knew exactly what it was looking for, what it needed, 556 00:28:47,519 --> 00:28:48,000 very much so. 557 00:28:48,759 --> 00:28:50,599 Speaker 2: And there were no signals to Earth this time, no 558 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:55,720 discernible communications, nothing like Collinas ping. It entered orbit around Psyche, 559 00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:03,400 locked into a fixed position relative to the asteroid, seemingly disappeared, 560 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:07,720 became effectively silent and maybe hard to resolve against Psyche's. 561 00:29:07,319 --> 00:29:09,759 Speaker 1: Surface, disappeared, how maybe just. 562 00:29:09,759 --> 00:29:13,079 Speaker 2: When dark stopped reflecting much light blended in. Most scientists 563 00:29:13,119 --> 00:29:15,759 were virtually paralyzed by this phenomenon. To put it lightly, 564 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,319 almost no one wanted to speak out loud on how 565 00:29:18,359 --> 00:29:21,960 incredibly alien it looked, how engineered its actions appeared. But 566 00:29:22,039 --> 00:29:26,599 it did. Abulobe's team, naturally undeterred by passed skepticism and 567 00:29:26,599 --> 00:29:29,119 maybe emboldened by these new observations, put out a new 568 00:29:29,119 --> 00:29:31,799 paper stating was most likely the real core of an 569 00:29:31,839 --> 00:29:35,039 old comet or icy asteroid with some machinery built into. 570 00:29:34,839 --> 00:29:36,599 Speaker 1: It machinery built into an asteroid. 571 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,559 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's worth noting we actually already have rudimentary 572 00:29:39,599 --> 00:29:42,799 space engineering concepts like this ourselves at this point, Ideas 573 00:29:42,799 --> 00:29:46,079 about probes using existing celestial bodies as a starting point 574 00:29:46,319 --> 00:29:50,000 for construction or resource extraction. It's not totally out there 575 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:54,119 as an engineering concept at this point. The International Astronomical Union, 576 00:29:54,279 --> 00:29:58,559 grappling with how to name such an unprecedented phenomenon, designated 577 00:29:58,599 --> 00:30:02,920 the original craft thirty Irabis, a name pulled from Greek myth, 578 00:30:03,039 --> 00:30:05,279 not a god of war or light, but the ancient 579 00:30:05,359 --> 00:30:08,960 chaos that filled the darkness between worlds, often personified as 580 00:30:09,039 --> 00:30:10,519 primordial darkness itself. 581 00:30:10,759 --> 00:30:15,039 Speaker 1: Erebus, ancient chaos that filled the darkness between worlds. That's 582 00:30:15,039 --> 00:30:17,960 a truly unsettling name for an object that just disappeared 583 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,880 and went silent after demonstrating such deliberate actions. What happened next? 584 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:23,799 After this ominous quiet, and. 585 00:30:23,839 --> 00:30:27,119 Speaker 2: While scientists were maybe struggling to admit the obvious implications 586 00:30:27,119 --> 00:30:29,839 of an alien probe disappearing into the asteroid belt, the 587 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:35,599 heat literally began. Infrared telescopes, initially searching for any thermal 588 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:39,480 leakage from the silent probe, picked up faint rhythmic fluctuations 589 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:44,599 on psyche surface, distinct repetitive pulses, radiative signatures that could 590 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,200 really only be machinery operating in sequence extracting processing materials, 591 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:48,920 building something. 592 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 1: Oh wow, so it wasn't dormant, it was working building. 593 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 2: What next came the launches. Dozens of small objects began 594 00:30:56,319 --> 00:31:00,240 leaving Psyche surface. Some stayed nearby, entering stable orbits around 595 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,960 the asteroid itself. Some moved inward towards Series, the dwarf 596 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,400 planet in the asteroid belt. A few headed out towards Phobos, 597 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,519 the innermost moon of Mars. Their movements were coordinated, precise, 598 00:31:12,119 --> 00:31:14,440 and when we ran the trajectories it became starkly clear 599 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:16,759 they weren't exploring. They were seeding. 600 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 1: Seeding. What exactly does that imply in this context? It 601 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,000 sounds almost biological, but we're talking about machines. 602 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,599 Speaker 2: What we're witnessing, unmistakably was the arrival and replication of 603 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:26,599 von Neumann. 604 00:31:26,279 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 1: Probes, Vonouman probes. I've heard of those self replicating machines. 605 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:33,799 Speaker 2: Right exactly. The concept isn't mere science fiction. Prominent scientists 606 00:31:33,839 --> 00:31:37,519 like John von Neuman himself and later Freeman Dyson theorized 607 00:31:37,519 --> 00:31:40,240 them as potentially the most efficient way for a civilization 608 00:31:40,319 --> 00:31:44,839 to explore or even colonize a galaxy. These are machines 609 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:48,920 designed to survive interstellar travel, land on resource rich objects 610 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:52,279 like metal asteroids, and then begin building more of themselves, 611 00:31:52,319 --> 00:31:55,480 replicating using whatever raw materials they could find in their 612 00:31:55,519 --> 00:31:59,640 new environment. They spread out, create copies, and those copies 613 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:01,400 then go on to do it over and over and 614 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:05,319 over again. It's a self replicating robotic system for exploration 615 00:32:05,359 --> 00:32:09,200 and resource gathering on a potentially galactic scale. It's just 616 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,559 that with thirteen irabis, we ended up on the receiving 617 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,839 end of this process launched by someone else, somewhere else, 618 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:15,880 maybe long long ago. 619 00:32:16,119 --> 00:32:18,839 Speaker 1: So we're not the explorers. We're the explored territory, or 620 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,920 perhaps just the territory being processed. And these probes just 621 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,400 want our asteroids, not necessarily our planet. That's kind of 622 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,359 good news, right, a cosmic sigh of relief that Earth 623 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:29,319 isn't on their menu. 624 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,599 Speaker 2: Well, the good news quote unquote, is indeed that Earth, 625 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:37,119 with its high gravity, well and relatively poor surface composition 626 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,640 of easily accessible metals, most of our valuable stuff is 627 00:32:40,759 --> 00:32:44,200 deep underground. Earth would likely be of no immediate interest 628 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,599 to these particular alien von Neumann probes. These machines need light, 629 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:51,279 easily accessible, resource rich asteroids. That's what they're optimized for. 630 00:32:51,519 --> 00:32:54,960 They're designed for efficiency in replication, not necessarily for finding 631 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,119 biological life or haverble planets. But on the other hand, 632 00:32:58,559 --> 00:33:01,599 thirteen iobis' mission made us feel, as you can imagine, 633 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:05,440 like ants near a human construction site, utterly insignificant. Completely, 634 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:07,640 we are too puny and irrelevant to them to even 635 00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:11,480 bother to contact, at least Tolanea's creators in that scenario 636 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,359 somewhat acknowledge we could be listening, maybe even offered that 637 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:19,880 single and decipherable greeting. These probes, however, they're just cold, 638 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,680 logical machines, too busy with their primary directive replica gather resources, 639 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:27,000 expand to even take a look at some insignificant ants 640 00:33:27,079 --> 00:33:30,200 scurrying on a nearby high gravity resource payer planet. They're 641 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:34,799 not hostile. They are simply indifferent, utterly cosmically indifferent. And 642 00:33:34,839 --> 00:33:37,000 then as these copies spread and began their work on 643 00:33:37,039 --> 00:33:39,880 Psyche series maybe Phobos, all of a sudden we lost 644 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:44,680 contact with our Mars orbiter. It's signaled, just ceased, just gone, 645 00:33:44,839 --> 00:33:46,759 No excident gone it. Maybe it flew too close to 646 00:33:46,759 --> 00:33:49,240 one of the new construction zones, Maybe its signals interfered. 647 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,599 Maybe it's just dismantled for spare parts. 648 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:55,079 Speaker 1: We wouldn't know, and that's where the indifference truly becomes chilling. 649 00:33:55,759 --> 00:33:57,440 So what does this all mean for us? Then? In 650 00:33:57,519 --> 00:34:00,359 this Arabis scenario? Do we try to communicate with these 651 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:04,400 self replicating entities even if they're seemingly ignoring us? Do 652 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:08,000 we try to intervene, perhaps protect our own nascent space endeavors, 653 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,639 like missions to Mars or the asteroid belt? Do we 654 00:34:10,639 --> 00:34:12,840 even have a choice? Or are we simply observers to 655 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,360 a process far beyond our control or comprehension. 656 00:34:15,559 --> 00:34:18,199 Speaker 2: This is the ultimate dilemma opposed by such a scenario, 657 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,119 isn't it one that forces us to confront our place 658 00:34:21,159 --> 00:34:24,679 in a potentially vast and indifferent cosmos. If we send 659 00:34:24,679 --> 00:34:27,039 a signal, will it be read as curiosity or will 660 00:34:27,039 --> 00:34:29,440 it be interpreted as an active interference by their cold 661 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:34,320 logical programming? If we try to interfere, even inadvertently, maybe 662 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,480 try to nudge one of the probes off course with 663 00:34:36,559 --> 00:34:39,360 that Marcus's hostile, and if they have the ability to 664 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:44,239 cross interstellar distances, replicate themselves across star systems, and effectively 665 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,719 make themselves at home in our asteroid belt, what would retaliation, 666 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,119 or even just a simple course correction on their part 667 00:34:50,159 --> 00:34:52,760 to remove an obstacle even look like. For us, it's 668 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,760 a terrifying question of power, perspective, and what it truly 669 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,480 means to be a civilization in the cosmic sense. When 670 00:34:58,519 --> 00:35:00,480 face is something so advanced and so and different. 671 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:05,199 Speaker 1: Wow, we've journeyed through this really fine line between natural wonders, 672 00:35:05,199 --> 00:35:10,280 strange comets, weird asteroids, and the tantalizing, often unsettling possibility 673 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,639 of alien engineering. We've seen that the signs might not 674 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:18,000 be the Hollywood explosions or the grand arrivals we often imagine. Instead, 675 00:35:18,039 --> 00:35:22,440 they might be subtle, puzzling anomalies in reflectivity, temperature, motion, 676 00:35:23,159 --> 00:35:26,119 things that force us to look beyond our current understanding, 677 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,719 to push the boundaries of what we consider normal cosmic behavior. 678 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,639 Speaker 2: And the scariest part here for me across all these 679 00:35:32,639 --> 00:35:37,519 scenarios isn't necessarily the alien presence itself. It's the profound 680 00:35:37,559 --> 00:35:41,119 realization of our potential irrelevance that we might not matter 681 00:35:41,159 --> 00:35:43,800 at all to them, not as a threat worth engaging, 682 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,679 not as a partner worth contacting, not even so blip 683 00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,320 on their radar, worth acknowledging properly. We could just be 684 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,440 one more environment to process, one more collection of resources 685 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,719 to utilize or ignore. This challenge is a deeply human 686 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,440 held belief in our own cosmic significance, doesn't it. 687 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:00,679 Speaker 1: It absolutely does that in different This is almost harder 688 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:02,519 to grasp than outright hostility. 689 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,239 Speaker 2: But then, what if these probes like Arabis aren't just 690 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:09,320 passing through or leaving for other star systems after replicating. 691 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,400 Maybe they're here to build some kind of dice and swarm, 692 00:36:12,639 --> 00:36:16,519 eventually encircling our Sun to extract its energy far more 693 00:36:16,519 --> 00:36:19,320 efficiently than we can. You know, the sun we also 694 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:20,719 kind of need for life here on Earth. 695 00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,599 Speaker 1: Okay, that adds a whole new layer of existential threat. 696 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:25,960 They don't care about us, but they might need our star. 697 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:30,519 Speaker 2: Or perhaps another possibility, maybe they're here to terraform, or 698 00:36:30,599 --> 00:36:34,000 rather alien form, some planet or moon in the Solar System, 699 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,440 preparing it so that their biological creators can arrive later 700 00:36:37,559 --> 00:36:41,559 to inhabit it, shaping it to their own needs, not ours. Ultimately, 701 00:36:41,559 --> 00:36:45,159 the point is, one day an interstellar object could genuinely 702 00:36:45,159 --> 00:36:47,880 turn out to be alien, and whatever it does, whether 703 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,800 it's a silent flyby like Helena or settling self replicating 704 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,280 presence like Arabs, it could be even worse in a 705 00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,559 way for our psyche than some Hollywood style invasion, because 706 00:36:56,599 --> 00:36:58,760 most likely we wouldn't be considered the main characters in 707 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:03,639 their story, more like set decorations. Set decorations, the ones 708 00:37:03,639 --> 00:37:06,360 that could be easily removed or just ignored if they 709 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:08,599 happened to have struck the real actors in the scene. 710 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,079 Speaker 1: Hew. Okay, that is a lot to mull over, isn't it. 711 00:37:12,159 --> 00:37:15,960 The sheer scale of possibility, from weird rocks doing different 712 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,079 machines to cosmic irrelevance. What stands out to you from 713 00:37:19,159 --> 00:37:21,719 this deep dive? How does exploring these ideas make you 714 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:24,360 feel about our place in the universe? That's our deep 715 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:27,559 dive for today. Keep observing, keep questioning, and maybe just 716 00:37:27,639 --> 00:37:31,920 maybe keep an eye on the sky.