Speaker 1: Live. This is pet Life Radio. Let's talk pets.
Speaker 2: Hello, cat friends, Welcome to cat tud I'm your show
host Michelle Fern. So us cat lovers. You know, we
love our cats, but then they get old. We wonder
do they have arthritis? So they just slowing down? Is
my cat getting lazy? Why isn't she running around anymore?
Or if maybe they were never that energetic and you
want them to be energetic. Well, my guest today has
a lot of answers for us, so I cannot wait
to introduce you to her. So stay tuned. We'll be
right back.
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Speaker 4: Let's talk pets on Petlifradio dot com.
Speaker 2: Welcome back everyone. I'd like to welcome doctor Kelly Fishman.
She is the founder of Strutanimal Mobility Specialists. Welcome doctor Kelly.
Speaker 5: Thank you, Michelle. I'm so happy to be here.
Speaker 2: I'm so happy to have you. So one of the
things that we always worry about with our cats is
that they're stoic creatures, right, so it's hard to tell
when something's going on, and as they age, they hide
their pain, so you don't know what's going on. So
how did you come to specialize in this? And then
we'll get into, you know how maybe some ideas of
how we can tell what's going on with our cat.
But how did you come to find animal mobility specialists?
Speaker 6: So it all started off in vet school when I
actually thought it'd be a cat specialist veterinarian and I
was vice president of the cat club and I organized
this event where the vetinary acupuncturist came down and we
all had to bring our cats in. And of course
we're all in the cat club and I have two
kiddies at a time, and we bring them all in
and she's going to show us how she acupunctures cats.
And it's this sterile room with high top metal tables
and all these little nervous kitties in their carriers and
she just kind of pulls them out one by one,
puts acupressure needles in them, and the entire room of
cats just like goes to sleep.
Speaker 5: I was like, Wow, that's really cool.
Speaker 6: What is this magic that she's doing acupuncture and it
works in cats?
Speaker 5: Wow?
Speaker 6: You know, I didn't even know, I mean know it
worked in people and maybe dogs, but you know, kitties.
So I then wanted to go above cats and just
understand how we could use things aside from pain medication
to help make animals feel better. And those things are
you know, acupuncture, cold laser therapy, massage, gentle chiropractic, or
physical therapy exercises to build strength and body awareness. Because
of that, I went into what's called animal physical rehabilitation,
and that's the science of you know, making animals were
in pain physically feel better. Okay, yeah, you're so, You're
right about kiddies with hiding stuff, you know, gosh, like
they hide pain. There are little predator and praise species.
As we are taught in vet school, you know, so
being a predator to a small mice and things like that,
they're certainly top dog, but they're also prey animals, so
they love to hide pain.
Speaker 5: You're right.
Speaker 2: I had my own situation with how while they hid pain.
I didn't even realize it because Dennis was my first
cat and he found me and he ended up with
having crystals in his urine. So, and it was so bad.
I had no idea. It was so bad that one
place I brought him said oh, he's gone, forget it,
just put him down and I said, I will not.
I took him out of there and went to another
vet and they had to do a surgery. It was
a whole big thing. Dennis's part main coon. Everybody loved him,
and you know, he was two, he's about I think
he's fifteen now, So I mean that was a surgery situation.
But that just goes to show I had no idea
he was in pain. At one point he made some
little like owl sounds, you know how they have chirpy
sounds sometimes. Yeah, but I had no idea. Yeah, it's serious.
So it's just even if you're in tune with your cat.
So I was a new cat pet parent. But even
if you're in tune with your cat, it's hard to
tell what they're hiding, really hard.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's so hard.
Speaker 6: And I think, you know, when I think about pain
and cats, it's really about changes and behavior, and those
are really hard to tell because those are seen over time.
So for example, one of the ones that I kind
of watch out for and then my own cat was
actually showing me this weekend is perching on the edge
of the litter box to use the litter box or
any kind of litter box change in behavior, and most
cat parents know that that's a big red flag. But
even just wanting to use the litter box in a
slightly different way, like cats are such creatures that habit.
They want to like have their litter box always, like
you know, in a certain place and use it in
a certain way. And when anything changes, that's a really
good way to start being you know, attention to things,
and and that thing could be again, in general, signs
of pain. You're in a bladderstone's, it could be arthritis,
it could be constipation, you know, inability to like want
to pee or kind of be blocked, so so many
different ways. But yes, it's really these subtle changes in behavior,
and those are hard to notice because we're busy. Our
kiddies are mostly sleeping during the day and maybe doing
some play, so it's hard to really track.
Speaker 2: So how do you notice these slight changes?
Speaker 6: So I think it's tough because I don't have an
easy answer for that. It's a little bit easier when
I'm thinking about arthritis, which is that's the one that
I have experienced with. Every one of my cats has
had arthritis. And actually we're learning now that sixty one
percent of six year old kiddies have arthritis, and we
have no idea. And then when they get to ten
or eleven, which is considered a senior, it's ninety percent.
That is a huge number that it shocks me. But
then I look at my cats and at that age,
they're all showing signs of arthritis pain, and what are
those signs?
Speaker 2: Look how far we've come. We're recognizing arthritis and our
cats all turn into ways of treating pain. This would
be on the horizon as something to think about even
five years ago.
Speaker 5: No it wasn't.
Speaker 6: And the other thing that's getting exciting is, you know,
some of the pain, like we didn't have really good
ways to treat pain medically. So you know, cats like
they don't love to be medicated, you know, so we
have some good options.
Speaker 2: Really hard. Okay, yeah, let's go back to what you
were saying. So with arthritis and cats, the only thing
I could think of. So my cats were never jumpers,
you know, they were not climbers. But I noticed that
Molly hesitates when she does a little jump, even it's
small jump. I'm thinking that might be arthritis.
Speaker 5: Does that sound right?
Speaker 6: Or that's absolutely arthritis, that's absolutely arthritis. So that that's
actually what my little Sophia did. And she would do
the same thing where she would just do micro jumps.
So she wanted to get to the table, so she
would jump from the chair to the higher chair to
the table, or she would when she wanted to use
a cat tree, she would go instead of jumping to
the third rung, she'd go up little steps or jump
to the couch to get up there.
Speaker 5: And it was arthritis.
Speaker 6: She had it in her little actually in her little pause,
which actually made nail trims really difficult.
Speaker 5: She was always good with them and then.
Speaker 6: Got bad with them later in life because she got arthritis.
In her little feet, So absolutely right, that's one of
the big signs. The other one is not grooming as much.
So a lot of times they'll just be rooms. You'll
look down in your kitty and be like, why is
their coat not as good? Or why are they leaving
litter on their paws? Like cats like to be clean,
you know, and that could be a sign that they're
not wanting to bend down and be as fastidious as
a groomer and grooming. And then also the other thing
is just coming up and down stairs in different ways.
That's a really big tell as well. So for example,
one of my kiddies used to always walk upstairs and
then he started a bunny hop up and that was
a big sign that he had arthritis in his hips
that I was also not aware of.
Speaker 2: I guess as long as we're somewhat aware, they do
give us some hints. We just have to know what
to look.
Speaker 6: For, yes, exactly, And we had to kind of we
had to pay attention, you know. And that's it's like
I said, I wish I had an easy way to
do it, you know, certainly when we're thinking about cat pain,
if your cat is not grooming as well, if they
are hesitating to jump up or down, or even going
up and down the stairs. If they're one of those
three and they're over the age of six, there is
a great possibility that they have arthritic pain, just given
the numbers of cats that we know have this, and
then edny one of those pain signs, Like I would say,
Molly should be screened to see if she has arthritis.
Speaker 2: Yep, she should. So what can we do to ease
our cat's discomfort? And are there supplements that we should
be giving them or do they work?
Speaker 6: Yeah, So with kitties, if I'm thinking about arthritis, I
really want to do something that supplements the joints, and
I like to do things that supplement the muscle and
things that you know a joint supplement. Some really great
examples would be fish oils or green lipped muscle. Those
things are anti inflammatory. They're really really good for joint health.
So that would be a great thing to supplement with.
Now I have a very hard time getting my cats,
all but my orange one to take a fish oil.
You think they would do it, but for some reason
they do not like fish oil, so I'm not being
able to get it. But that would be a great
supplement to do.
Speaker 2: I just ordered fish oil for Mollie.
Speaker 5: Good luck.
Speaker 2: Well, right, I'll try. Yeah, you would think, I mean, okay,
I don't like it, So then what do we do?
Can you give it to them in their I was
going to put it in our food.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you could absolutely give it into their food.
Speaker 6: Or there's certain prescription diets, so if you want to
feed your cat a prescription diet that has a fish
oil already incorporated. The other thing I actually find that
cats do tolerate a little bit better and like better
is green lipped muscle and green lipped muscle. Instead of
being a fish oil, which is where they kind of
render down the fish and kind of concentrate it, green
blip muscles actually derived from muscles, and so it's a
little brinier. Like my kitties love actually have a supplement
that has the green lip muscle in it, and they
still seem to really like that.
Speaker 5: The other thing you could do is sardines.
Speaker 2: What was it called green lipped muscle, lipped muscle?
Speaker 6: Yep, okay, so that's a great one. So those are
things that are great for the joints.
Speaker 2: And then sardines, like, yes, sardines yeah, okay.
Speaker 6: So you could try to give your kitty a little sardine.
So thinking about the joints, which is these things that
are anti flammatory and support the joints that are getting older,
they're breaking down. I also love to do things that
support the muscle. So we know that cats are chest
they're because we have our most door kitties are indoors,
and they're older.
Speaker 5: They're a little bit doe. I should say that, like,
you know, uh, not well muscled.
Speaker 6: If I had a dog, I could do squats with
it or push ups, but my kitty, like the cat
exercises are you know, asking them to stretch with a
laser pointer or use a toy to get them in
and out of a box, but exercises to build muscle.
Like my cats, maybe they're interested for about a minute
of play and then they're done. So I like to
do things that try to support the muscle and build
back muscle. So I like to feed an ingredient called
bordotropin and fordotropin, which is spelled fo r E. Tro pian.
It's scientiffilicate backed and proven in cats in kitties, not
just dogs, but also in kitties to build lean muscle
and to be really well tolerated, so it doesn't make them,
you know, have stomach upset, and it's really easy on
the kidneys. And so I also give those to my
kiddies if they're suffering from arthritis because it's building the muscle.
And they also have an ingredient or a product with
the green lip muscle in it. So if you kind
of wanted, that's what I do with my cat. So
I feed hototropein, which is found in this myos pet.
They have a feline version and it has the green
lift muscle, so I feel like it's an all in
one when my cats love it. So that's what I
do personally for my own kitties with arthritis.
Speaker 2: This is such fascinating information. All Right, we're gonna take
a quick break and we'll be right back. Mollie, here's
your dinner. Since that's not your food.
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Speaker 8: Radio Catlin Radio dot com.
Speaker 2: Welcome back everyone. We're speaking to doctor Kelly Fishman about
things we can do to slow down your cats aging,
to build up their muscle, to help them with their arthritis.
And doctor Kelly, there's such fascinating interesting information. I mean,
I had no idea that cats had arthritis so many
of them in their senior years. I think it's because
it's hard to tell. With dogs. You walk them. You
can see that when they start to drag, you know,
as they get older. Because I had dogs before I
had cats, so you can see that in dogs. With cats,
you don't see it as much. You have to be
a detective.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's true, and vets don't even know. It's one
of those things where even your veterinarian, if you go
to your vet, you have an older cat that's kind
of slowing down. And now there's more awareness because Soilentia,
there's a which is a pain medication made for cats
with arthritis, because the company that makes that has done
a really good job of like providing awareness to veterinarians.
Most veterinarians are now learning. But a few years ago,
most veterinarians would have no idea why your cat was
suffering or even that they were. So it's not even
like us, it's our pet parents. It's also like us
as and vetinarians too.
Speaker 2: We have to get more knowledgeable about what our cats need.
What about exercise? Is there anything you could do for
exercising to help your cats? I mean, I know it's
hard when they're their birthrights to get them to move.
And like you said before, your cats are interested, you
know and moving around for about a minute. Mind, it
wouldn't matter what the toy is. They just don't only engage. Yeah,
they like boxes and bags, you know, I know, for
five minutes then they're just you know, tired of it.
So I've done a lot of shows. Some of them
there's been some tricks and tips, but they never seem
to be engaged for more than a short time.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 6: I kind of do wonder if it's just because of
like how the cat play is stimulating, you know, their
predator behavior. They have to chase them mouse or get
the birds. So it's almost like it's done this for
a few minutes and I've should have caught this thing,
and I'm going to give up.
Speaker 5: But you know, it's funny.
Speaker 6: The kitties I can get into things like swimming or
the underwater treadmill are orange male cats Maine coons like
Dennis and Bengals actually will go in the underwater treadmill
or do swimming, believe it or not. And then some
of the other ones. I again, I don't have a
lot of great answers either. Sometimes I'll do things like
incorporating boxes for them to jump in and out of,
and then I like to do a wall stretch. That's
my favorite, where I just take a laser pointer and
put it on the wall. And then my kitty. Who
has my kitty right now, Nelson. He's a ten year
old white domestic short hair. I put a little laser
pointer on the wall and he has to kind of
grab it and he stretches out his when he stands
up on the wall, he stretches out his spine and
his hips. And that's a great one to do. So
just I think, listen, we can't get them to build muscle,
but we have supplements that can do that. We can't
get them to keep moving, but we can do little
things and we can do those stretches. And maybe it's
not kitty squads, but it's something.
Speaker 2: It's something. What about for younger kiddies that maybe have
a little bit more energy. I know that people have
been walking their cats for a while now, at least
probably at least ten or probably more years than ten
twenty years, But how hard is it to get your
cat into harness to be walked.
Speaker 6: Well, I've done this with three of my kiddies, so
you definitely you could harness train them when they are kittens.
So that basically involves putting the harness on indoors where
they're nice safe space that they know, they feel comfortable,
and you just like provide treats and let them wear
the harness indoors when they're comfortable, and then what you
do is you then attach a leash. You get them
used to walking around with a leash and having pressure,
and then you bring them outside. And then most of
the time you bring them outside and sixty percent of
the cats kind of go into the crouch mode and
get freaked out until they realize that they're in a
safe place. But certainly harness training is really helpful. The
other thing I did with my most recent cat is
I trained him to sit, and I trained him to
like jump on and up like through hoops. So I
think if I had a kit and again, I would
certainly do that, and then do that as like a
way to like maintain fitness, you know, like so he's
always sitting when he gets a treat where he has
to jump through a hoop to get a treat. And honestly,
teaching my cat to sit was way easier than teaching
a dog. You just hold a little treat over their
nose and he sits right away.
Speaker 5: They learn.
Speaker 6: They're so much faster like learners and dogs are. It's
just if they want to repeat the behavior or not,
that's up to the kiddie. But they're certainly good learners.
Speaker 5: There.
Speaker 2: You go and ages ago. I had him through my
other show on pet Life Radio, Best Bets for Pat's.
I had a kiddie harness, so I thought, I'm gonna
put it on Dennis and take him out because he's
part of me and couldn't say he's very easy, like
he's real easy, which I'm grateful for. And so I
put the harness on, took him outside. I'm thinking, I'm
gonna walk him like a dog. You're right, and and
I'm probably like most people, I don't have a ton
of patients for certain things. So I just thought, we'll
do this. Come on, Dennis, we'll do this. I think
I maybe had treats. He took a couple of treats,
and then you're right, he just sat there. It's like
put the heck on a cat. I don't do this.
So that did not last too long. I probably could
have if I was more patient, trained him a bit.
But you know, it's funny. He's the oldest of my
cat crew and he's the one that jumps around the
most interesting.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was still screening him just because you said
he's fourteen fifteen. Yeah, yeah, he probably has it.
Speaker 6: I mean, coons are big kiddies, so you know they
I was like worry about. So the cat's actually the
place they get ARTHRT. It's it's important they get in
their elbows and their hips like the most common spots.
So yeah, I think Mankon's maybe kind of like Bengals,
like they just like have like a dry like they
just like kind of want to like they have a
drive that like makes them want to keep going, you know.
So I think that's also part of it, like maybe
they kind of work through stuff pain and don't show it.
Speaker 5: As much as other cats. Breeze.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't know, that's my own personal thought, like
I don't have any evidence for that, or I think
just being a cat owner.
Speaker 2: And he's not that big of a main coon. He's big,
but he's not that big.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: On Instagram there's a few people that have pictures of
Maine coons that are i mean, what like thirty inches
forty inches long, like crazy huge.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, they could be quite big.
Speaker 2: They have a great personality.
Speaker 6: So yeah, Maincon and my and orange kitties and tuxedos
are yes, you know.
Speaker 2: Well I have Tuxedo, but she's a cat with attitude,
so she's typical cat. That's what I say about her.
You could have to do it by her way. So right,
we've talked about a lot of things that cat parents
can do to detect, you know, arthritis and if their
cat's not feeling well and what to look for. What
are some overall things that cat parents can do to
make their cats happier and healthier, because it could be
overwhelming and there's so many things out there now, you know,
acupuncture and arthritis, and there's we didn't even touch on
probiotics because that's I don't think that's in your real
but that's out there too. That's you know, not probiotics.
But there's all kinds of different things coming up, and
it could be so overwhelming. So what would you say
to the cat parent, you know what, of all the
things to focus on, these are the top maybe three
or five items that you should really, you know, keep
in mind.
Speaker 6: So first of all, I wrote the probiotics. Actually, I
have recently started to become a big fan of probiotics
and not forgetting that, like the gut is such an
important organ. So I actually also feed my kiddy probiotics
and that's been very helpful because it's helped with some
of his chronic occasional vomiting that he had, and just
making sure he had a nice flora has been really important.
So I definitely think probiotics are a great addition. And
also there are some great calming probiotics in cats and
four cats that are great for separation, anxiety and other
kind of behavioral issues. So yes, probiotics, you already broughth
it up. That's something I like and recommend. So I
think that the thing that I would say is, you know,
I think as vetinarians we've done a bad job of
really understanding how to feed cats and what to feed cats,
and I don't, unfortunately have the answer.
Speaker 5: Because we don't know.
Speaker 6: It seems to be that as much as possible, I
would tell people to not feed kibble. And the reason
is cats, when they eat in their natural state is
they like to eat several times a day, like as it,
five to six times a day, many meals of high protein,
high water content. So maybe that would look like one
mouse and several insects or things like that, So that's
how they naturally eat. They're kind of a solitary predator,
solitary hunter. Many meals eat snack eat snack right and sleep,
so that's kind of what they naturally do.
Speaker 5: And when we have kibble, kibble.
Speaker 6: Is very dry and it doesn't provide a lot of
moisture to it. So cats, who again are desert creatures,
probably also got a lot of their water from their food.
So I would try as much as possible to stick
away from kibble because it seems to be it's the
least natural way to feed the kiddies just because it's
again it's not very hydrating. And then what happens is
because it's so it's almost like eating a bag of chips.
Like the cat, thein who wants to go to it
and have many micromeals constantly is grazing at the kibba
bowl and then they become overweight and Obesit is a
huge problem in cats. Not only does it make things
like arthritis work, it predisposes them to diabetes and all
kinds of problems. So if we could just prevent obeseeding
cats by you know, trying to feed them in ways
that prevents obesity, which is trying to move away from kibble,
try to do that. So I switched my kiddies to
they both eat all my cats eat canned food as
much as possible.
Speaker 2: Okay, so even if your cats drink water, you'd say
minimize or eliminate kibble entirely.
Speaker 6: Yes, yes, And actually cats who eat kibble will drink
more water than cats who don't because they're or get
dehydrated and they then seek out water.
Speaker 5: So when you have a cat, if you're always.
Speaker 6: Fed kibble and then you switch to a wet food,
then you'll notice that your cat's water intake will go
down because you're getting more water from the food.
Speaker 2: What if you do a mix, You could do a mix.
Speaker 6: You could definitely do a mix. It's just as much
as possible. Minimize the kibble. So you know, if I
have to do a kibble, I like to feed it
as a treat. It's like a little treat.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: So that's my thing is you know, and hopefully one
day we learn even more about cat nutrition how to
feed them better. But it certainly seems that doing things
like you know, the kibble unfortunately isn't as well. It's
easy and convenient, and then I had to feed it
for you know, my kiddies. At certain points in my
life where I was busy, fat student, and you know,
I went on vacation and I couldn't get.
Speaker 5: Someone to come watch them, and I had to feed kibble.
Speaker 6: Or with my first cat, who I got when I
was quite young, I fed kibble. They could never get
her off it even if I tried. She could not
eat canned food. You know, there's certain circumstances, but as
much as possible, try to stay away from it.
Speaker 2: That is good advice.
Speaker 5: Any other tips, No, I don't really have any.
Speaker 6: I mean things, just you know, our kidies are such special,
loving creatures and I think, I don't know, I just
think that like paying attention to them and just you know,
loving them as much as possible.
Speaker 5: It is such a great thing. They just are such
such great little animals.
Speaker 2: Yes they are, and they could teach you a lot.
We just have to open our minds and our eyes
and just listen, you know, because in our world where
we're rushing around and doing multitasking and all this kind
of stuff, sometimes, you know, we expect our fur babes
to behave that way, and cats, for one, do not,
at least mine don't. And from what I learned from
them is you really have to pay attention to them
and what they want. They have their own personalities and
needs and you just have to focus in on what
they want.
Speaker 5: Yes, that's really well said. That's exactly right.
Speaker 2: So tell us where people can find out more about
you and learn more about struct Animal Mobility Specialists, and
just find out more about you in general.
Speaker 6: So you could certainly find me on my website strutanimal
dot com. And I'm on Instagram and Facebook also at
strut animal and ever. You know, it's always free to
reach out to me, send me a message. I'm always
happy to answer questions about cats or dogs or anything.
Speaker 2: Doctor Kelly, I want to thank you so much for
coming on Catitude.
Speaker 6: Yeah, thank you, Michelle. It was lovely talking to you
about kitties.
Speaker 2: I hope you all enjoyed the show. What fascinating information
that doctor Kelly Fishman had I would like to mention again.
She is the founder of strut Animal Mobility Specialists. Strutanimal
dot com is our website. Please check it out. This
is great info about our kitties. Thanks to my cat
crew Mollie, Charlotte and Dennis for teaching me about cats
and I could just learn and learn and learn. There's
so much we don't know about cats, even though We're
getting better all the time. So thanks catcrew, and of
course thank you so much to my listening audience. Thank
you for listening to Catitude for all these years. I've
been hosting it for eight and I just appreciate you
so much, so thank you for your loyal listenership. And
of course the show would not be the same without
the magic of my producer, Mark Winter, So thank you Mark,
and remember, lose the attitude, have Catitude.
Speaker 4: Let's Talk pets every week on demand only on petlifradio
dot com.