Speaker 1: What's up everyone, and welcome back to the program. Over
Speaker 1: the past few days, we've been talking about the new
Speaker 1: items to hit the docket in the Brian Colberger trial. Well,
Speaker 1: today we have an article from Newsweek talking about some
Speaker 1: of those items and six of the shocking rumors that
Speaker 1: possibly tainted the jerry pool. So let's just get right
Speaker 1: to this article and let's see what Newsweek has to say.
Speaker 1: Headlined Brian Colberger defense reveals six shocking rumors tainting possible jurors.
Speaker 1: This article was authored by Jenna Sundel. The legal team
Speaker 1: of accused murderer Brian Colberger alleged the litany of rumors
Speaker 1: and conjecture among Leata County residents in over three hundred
Speaker 1: pages of legal filings made public last week. And hey, look,
Speaker 1: I get it right. You want to make sure that
Speaker 1: your client is getting as good of a shake as possible. Well,
Speaker 1: if you don't want rumors and you don't want innuendo,
Speaker 1: wouldn't it be a good idea to get rid of
Speaker 1: the gag order? And considering Coberger's team as talk like this,
Speaker 1: and they're the ones who initiated the gag order in
Speaker 1: the first place, why don't they just go to the
Speaker 1: judge and say, you know what, we want complete transparency
Speaker 1: and we want the gag order removed. They're not going
Speaker 1: to do that, though, are they, Because it's not about
Speaker 1: full transparency. It's about transparency when it fits their narrative.
Speaker 1: And that's why you won't see them have that gag
Speaker 1: order removed, because they know that the evidence is stacked
Speaker 1: against their client. Now, I'm not going to sit here
Speaker 1: and tell you that we should just throw Brian Colberger
Speaker 1: in jail right now without a trial and I've seen
Speaker 1: enough because that's certainly not the case. But what I
Speaker 1: will say, and what I have said, is that there
Speaker 1: is a ton of evidence here, and we're not just
Speaker 1: talking about shitty evidence. We're talking about tangible evidence that
Speaker 1: is meaningful. And obviously the strongest bit of that evidence
Speaker 1: is the DNA evidence that was collected from the knife sheath.
Speaker 1: And that's why they're so gung ho and so adamant
Speaker 1: to try and get that bit of the evidence tossed
Speaker 1: or find some sort of vector to assault the strong
Speaker 1: evidence that's been compiled against their client. But at least
Speaker 1: up until now, Judge Judge has denied them at every turn.
Speaker 1: But what I will say is reading through the documents,
Speaker 1: there's some compelling stuff in there. Their experts are making
Speaker 1: some good points, and that's why we're going through the
Speaker 1: documents like we are. We just got done going through
Speaker 1: Brian Edelman's declaration and later on today. There's certainly more
Speaker 1: coming your way from those core documents, but it's crucial
Speaker 1: that we understand what's going on behind the scenes because
Speaker 1: with the gag order, it's very hard to make heads
Speaker 1: or tails one way or the other right, and that's
Speaker 1: exactly the whole entire goal of that gag order to
Speaker 1: mitigate the information that's coming out. But on the back
Speaker 1: end of that, you can't sit here and complain about
Speaker 1: rumors and speculation if you're the one who wants the
Speaker 1: gag order draped over the case. Coburger, twenty nine, is
Speaker 1: accused of fatally stabbing for University of Idaho students in
Speaker 1: November of twenty twenty two. The victims, known as the
Speaker 1: Idaho Four, are Madison Mogan, Kaylee Gonsalves, Xana Kernodle, and
Speaker 1: Ethan Chapin. Coburger is facing four accounts of first degree
Speaker 1: murder and one count of felony burglary. The trial is
Speaker 1: scheduled to begin on June second of next year. The
Speaker 1: next upcoming hearing on August twenty ninth, is about the
Speaker 1: defense motion to change the location of the trial, which
Speaker 1: is set to be held in Leithah County. And even
Speaker 1: though I find some of the information that's been provided
Speaker 1: by the experts compelling, I don't think it's going to
Speaker 1: matter one way or the other. And that's because with
Speaker 1: technology the way it is, it's really difficult to convince
Speaker 1: me that people in a different county aren't as locked
Speaker 1: in as they are down in Moscow. We're talking about
Speaker 1: a pretty small state, Idaho, right, People aren't used to
Speaker 1: this kind of thing happening. We're not talking about a
Speaker 1: murder that occurred in San Diego and then people up
Speaker 1: in Sacramento. Now, of course there's going to be people
Speaker 1: following along, but not to the degree as in a
Speaker 1: small state like Idaho. And that's just a numbers thing.
Speaker 1: So when you're talking about moving this to a different county,
Speaker 1: I have a hard time believing that that's going to
Speaker 1: mitigate any sort of prejudice that Coburger's team is saying exists.
Speaker 1: I just don't think the juice is worth the squeeze. However,
Speaker 1: I'm not the one that's fighting for my life, and
Speaker 1: I completely understand why Brian Coberger and his team are
Speaker 1: attempting to do this, why they're attempting to make this move.
Speaker 1: I just don't think it's going to be successful. Brian
Speaker 1: Coberger cannot receive a fair trial in Letah County, as
Speaker 1: protected by his rights under both the United States and
Speaker 1: Idaho constitutions because the pervasive, inflammatory, often inaccurate, and highly
Speaker 1: prejudicial publicity. Public defender and Taylor argued in the document, well, cool,
Speaker 1: get rid of the gag order, like I said earlier,
Speaker 1: so you can correct the record and set us all straight.
Speaker 1: She's not going to do that, though, is she. What
Speaker 1: she'll do is she'll continue to make these filings and
Speaker 1: she'll hint at things. She'll say. Maybe she'll say, oh,
Speaker 1: this is tainted or that's tainted. And while that's a
Speaker 1: pretty song to sing, it doesn't really fit with the
Speaker 1: reality of the situation. The reality is this fertile ground
Speaker 1: for misinformation was caused by that gag order. Point blank period,
Speaker 1: the defense team conducted a phone survey of potential jurors
Speaker 1: to determine if they can act in partially. One question
Speaker 1: asked during the survey was what rumors or theories, if any,
Speaker 1: have you heard about these murders Brian Coberger or the victims.
Speaker 1: The document details some of the rumors respondents had heard,
Speaker 1: included that Coburger was linked to the murders in other states,
Speaker 1: he stalked the victims and he was romantically rejected by
Speaker 1: one of the victims. I've heard that Coburger has been
Speaker 1: linked to other murders in Washington and Pennsylvania, one survey
Speaker 1: respondent said. And there's no doubt there has been a
Speaker 1: ton of information out there that has not been true.
Speaker 1: And that's how it works with the big case like this.
Speaker 1: People are interested in what's going on, and if there's
Speaker 1: a lack of information, people are just gonna make shit up.
Speaker 1: People aren't gonna go and look at the court documents.
Speaker 1: They're gonna make up slacious rumors. They're gonna make up this,
Speaker 1: that or the other thing and attribute it to this
Speaker 1: source or that source. But the reality is all of
Speaker 1: this is caused, and I hate to say it once again,
Speaker 1: by the gag order. If you don't have that gag
Speaker 1: order and it's not as restrictive as it is. You
Speaker 1: could set the record straight, come out and say this
Speaker 1: is bs. This never happened, that didn't happen. My client
Speaker 1: never did this. But Ann Tayler's not stupid. She knows
Speaker 1: the deal and she knows that the evidence is stacked
Speaker 1: against her client, so she'll take her shots when she can.
Speaker 1: Talking about transparency to make it look like Brian Coolberger
Speaker 1: is getting railroaded, but I'm not buying it. In a
Speaker 1: press release from the Moscow Police Department included in the filing,
Speaker 1: officials said that they had received inquiries from media about
Speaker 1: a nineteen ninety nine double stabbing in Pullman, Washington, and
Speaker 1: a twenty twenty one double stabbing in Salem, Oregon. While
Speaker 1: these cases share similarities with the King Street homicides, there
Speaker 1: does not appear to be any evidence to support the
Speaker 1: cases are related. Police Colberger was four years old at
Speaker 1: the time of the stabbing in Washington, and whenever you
Speaker 1: have somebody who gets arrested for something like this, automatically
Speaker 1: people start looking into their past to see if they
Speaker 1: could be connected to any other murders. That's just how
Speaker 1: it goes. The killer has not been identified in the
Speaker 1: Oregon stabbing that left one dead and another injured. Both
Speaker 1: attacks involved an intruder breaking into a residence with a
Speaker 1: knife at around three am. Authorities maintain the incidents are
Speaker 1: not linked to one another, and I've seen no evidence
Speaker 1: to link the Juden murder to what happened with Brian Colberger.
Speaker 1: But it's certainly something we discussed. It's certainly something that
Speaker 1: had to be discussed, and once again that all falls
Speaker 1: on the shoulders of the system itself and Brian Colberger's
Speaker 1: legal team. They're the ones that wanted the gag order.
Speaker 1: So sometimes in life you have to reap what you sew.
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania authorities are investigating if Colburger is linked to any
Speaker 1: unsolved murders in the state. News Nation reported, however, he
Speaker 1: has not been identified as a suspect or charged and
Speaker 1: any incidence in the state. Colberger was initially arrested in
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania at his parents' home on December thirtieth, twenty twenty two.
Speaker 1: He had just traveled across the country from Washington to
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania with his father to spend the holidays with his parents.
Speaker 1: Colberger and his father were stopped by police twice in
Speaker 1: Indiana within the matter of minutes. During their cross country trip,
Speaker 1: a deputy with the Hancock County Sheriff's Department pulled the
Speaker 1: white Hondai over on I seventy at around ten forty
Speaker 1: one am on December fifteenth for following too closely. Colberger
Speaker 1: had not been named a suspect in the case yet
Speaker 1: when he was stopped. Officials had identified a Hondai a
Speaker 1: Lantra as a vehicle of interest, but they had not
Speaker 1: released a license plate number for the car. The deputy
Speaker 1: let Coburger and his father off with a warning. And
Speaker 1: the reason that they got pulled over is this is
Speaker 1: a drug corridor. This is where a lot of the
Speaker 1: traffickers are traveling through to get their product from one
Speaker 1: coast to the other or one state to the next.
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of interdiction and a lot of
Speaker 1: times you were getting pulled over for little traffic violations
Speaker 1: and that just gives them their in to inspect your
Speaker 1: vehicle and to check you out. At around ten fifty am,
Speaker 1: the car was stopped on the interstate for a following
Speaker 1: too closely. Again, the officer let the two off with
Speaker 1: the warning. After the arrest, officials searched Colberger's car and
Speaker 1: seized a large amount of items, including a knife, a
Speaker 1: forty caliber gun, a pocket knife, empty magazines for the gun,
Speaker 1: a black mask, hat, and gloves. Other survey respondents claimed
Speaker 1: Coburger was stalking one or more of the victims. Don't
Speaker 1: know why he did it. There were some rumors that
Speaker 1: he stalked the girls, but can't say that's for sure,
Speaker 1: one respondent claimed. While several reports have emerged that Coburger
Speaker 1: was often in the same location as a victim before
Speaker 1: the murders and had photos of one of the victims
Speaker 1: on his phone, prosecutors have stated he did not stalk
Speaker 1: any of his victims, so that doesn't mean he didn't
Speaker 1: have pictures of the phones, that doesn't mean he wasn't
Speaker 1: following them on social media, and that certainly doesn't mean
Speaker 1: that he didn't meet them or see them at the
Speaker 1: Mad Greek. Additional allegations include that Coburger did not work alone,
Speaker 1: the crime involved a drug deal gone bad, Coburger had
Speaker 1: a history of being disrespectful to women, and murdered the
Speaker 1: victims just to see if he could get away with it.
Speaker 1: Friends of Coburger told the Idaho Statesman that he used
Speaker 1: marijuana and heroin and went to a rehabilitation program after
Speaker 1: developing an addiction, but he has never been arrested on
Speaker 1: drug charges. Officials did seize the green leafy substance from
Speaker 1: Coburger's vehicle, but there has not been any substantiated evidence
Speaker 1: that the killing Coburger is accused of involved a drug deal.
Speaker 1: Nobody got killed over a drug deal? Are you guys
Speaker 1: kidding me? Right now? That was ridiculous then, and it's
Speaker 1: even more ridiculous now as somebody who follows the cartels
Speaker 1: on a daily basis, This is not how they roll.
Speaker 1: They're not showing up here and stabbing you. Okay. If
Speaker 1: this was the cartel hit, every single one of them
Speaker 1: would have been killed a different way. So the whole
Speaker 1: entire drug deal gone wrong. Talk about ridiculous. Jordan Cerrilneck,
Speaker 1: the owner of Seven Sirens Brewing Company in Pennsylvania, told
Speaker 1: NBC News that Coburger had visited the business a few
Speaker 1: times and several women on his staff complained about his behavior.
Speaker 1: He said when women rejected his advances, he would get
Speaker 1: upset with them a little bit, and he allegedly called
Speaker 1: one of the employees a bitch. The defense team found
Speaker 1: that over ninety eight percent of people in the county
Speaker 1: were aware of the case, with sixty eight percent following
Speaker 1: it very or somewhat closely. Out of the potential jurors
Speaker 1: familiar with the case, around sixty seven percent believe Coburger
Speaker 1: is guilty. Well, that's because the evidence is strong and
Speaker 1: if you wanted to mitigate that evidence and Taylor should
Speaker 1: have got rid of the gag order. Prospective jurors who
Speaker 1: had been exposed to prejudicial pre trial publicity enter the
Speaker 1: courtroom with case specific knowledge gleaned from the media, social media,
Speaker 1: and discussions with friends, family members, and co workers. The
Speaker 1: defense argued uncovering the full extent of jurors case specific
Speaker 1: knowledge and pinions in high profile cases can be extremely difficult. Look,
Speaker 1: there's no doubt it's a very crucial part of what's
Speaker 1: going on. My point is, in a case like this
Speaker 1: with so much publicity, it's almost a moot point because
Speaker 1: everybody knows about what's going on here. Everybody knows who
Speaker 1: Brian Kolberger is, and everybody knows what he's accused of.
Speaker 1: The defense also said the small population of Leata County
Speaker 1: will make it more difficult to find an impartial jury. Well,
Speaker 1: if you don't want a small jury pool, don't kill
Speaker 1: people in small towns. Thanks for coming to my ted talk.
Speaker 1: Aida County is the largest county in Idaho, with more
Speaker 1: than ten times as many potential jurors than Leayta County.
Speaker 1: The defense said, given with how familiar the case throughout
Speaker 1: the entire state of Idaho, selecting an impartial jury as
Speaker 1: guaranteed by the Constitution will be a challenge. The best
Speaker 1: chance to find an impartial jury is to have the
Speaker 1: largest potential pool of candidates. Layta County has a population
Speaker 1: of around thirty nine thy five hundred, while Aida County
Speaker 1: has a population of nearly four hundred and ninety five thousand.
Speaker 1: Aida County, which includes the state capital of Boise, will
Speaker 1: also have more space to accommodate the high profile trial.
Speaker 1: The defense claimed. There are large courtrooms with adequate space
Speaker 1: and tables for the attorneys and mister Colberger. The defense
Speaker 1: said the large courtroom provides space for each council to
Speaker 1: keep materials and necessary conversation out of eyesight or earshot
Speaker 1: of the other party, spectators, and the media. Due to
Speaker 1: its size, the courtroom can accommodate a large number of spectators,
Speaker 1: and there is overflow space available for the public to
Speaker 1: watch the trial. And I certainly won't dispute any of that.
Speaker 1: That's all true, but that doesn't mean it should be
Speaker 1: moved to Aida County. The people of Moscow deserve to
Speaker 1: sit in on this trial. They deserve to be the
Speaker 1: jurors of this trial, and they deserve to decide Brian
Speaker 1: Colberger's fate. Then you change impact on the trial. Doctor
Speaker 1: Jill Leebold, a senior jury consulting advisor with IMS Legal Strategies,
Speaker 1: spoke to Newsweek about how extensive media coverage of a
Speaker 1: case can impact jurors. We have unconscious attitudes and feelings
Speaker 1: about certain things, and the more exposure that you have,
Speaker 1: it's additive. It builds up, lee Bold said, and so
Speaker 1: while they may not be able to consciously access their
Speaker 1: feelings on a particular case, that exposure still has an impact.
Speaker 1: Lee Bold explained that as time passes, the crime typically
Speaker 1: fades from the public eye, but that is not as
Speaker 1: true in smaller communities. That collective forgetting doesn't happen the
Speaker 1: same way in a small town because it's still front
Speaker 1: and center. Because it was such a light bulb moment
Speaker 1: for that particular community, and they remember those events more
Speaker 1: than somewhere in a larger venue, lee Bold said. Even
Speaker 1: though the case is being covered on a national level,
Speaker 1: she explained that a jury in a different area would
Speaker 1: be further removed from the case. Nothing is going to
Speaker 1: exist in a vacuum and people will have heard about it,
Speaker 1: but without those personal connections to the community and the
Speaker 1: community knowledge, it will have less of an influence, lee
Speaker 1: Bold said. Lee Bold laid out some key questions to
Speaker 1: ask potential jurors to ensure a fair trial. Have they
Speaker 1: taken action somehow? Have they talked about it? Have they
Speaker 1: written about it? Sought out articles, researched more information. Those
Speaker 1: are the people who are less likely to be able
Speaker 1: to keep an open mind or to be fair, Lee
Speaker 1: Bold said, what's next in the trial? Prosecutors oppose the
Speaker 1: defense efforts to change the venue of the trial. I
Speaker 1: don't think that a change of venue is going to
Speaker 1: solve any of these problems, Thompson told the court at
Speaker 1: a hearing earlier this year. The state's position on venue
Speaker 1: is that the case should be held here. It's Leayta
Speaker 1: County case. We believe that we can select an appropriate
Speaker 1: panel of jurors from Leayta County. Thompson had until Agust
Speaker 1: twelfth to submit a reply to the defense filing. The
Speaker 1: defense can submit a rebuttal a week later. Judge John
Speaker 1: Judge of Idaho's second Judicial District in Leayta County, will
Speaker 1: rule on the motion. If the case is moved, he
Speaker 1: can make the decision to continue presiding over the proceedings,
Speaker 1: or he can withdraw and the Idaho Supreme Court would
Speaker 1: pick a new judge to take his place. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't think that's gonna happen. I think Judge Judge is
Speaker 1: committed here and I think that we're gonna see this
Speaker 1: trial pop off in Leata County. Now, they might bust
Speaker 1: in jurors from outside the county like they did down
Speaker 1: to Delphi or going to do down in Delphi. But
Speaker 1: besides that, I don't see them moving this. But like usual,
Speaker 1: we'll keep an eye on things, and when we have
Speaker 1: some more information to add, we'll certainly get it added
Speaker 1: to the catalog. But as for this episode, well that's
Speaker 1: gonna do it. All of the information that goes with
Speaker 1: this episode can be found in the description box. What's
Speaker 1: up Everyone and welcome back to the program. Brian Koberger
Speaker 1: and his team have petitioned the judge to try and
Speaker 1: get the venue of his trial changed. Now, this is
Speaker 1: something that was not unexpected, but I don't know how
Speaker 1: much success they're going to have. I think that the
Speaker 1: best bet would be to bring jurors in from outside
Speaker 1: the county instead of moving the whole entire thing thing.
Speaker 1: They've already spent so much money when it comes to
Speaker 1: this trial that I can't see them acquiescing to this request, unless,
Speaker 1: of course, it is something that is without a doubt
Speaker 1: going to cause Brian Cohberger to not have a fair trial.
Speaker 1: And in the old days, I would think that there
Speaker 1: is some legitimacy to that, right, But with the way
Speaker 1: everybody is connected now, especially in a little state like Idaho,
Speaker 1: do you really think that people in the next county
Speaker 1: over have no idea what Brian Cohberger's story is or
Speaker 1: what happened in Moscow? Hell, yeah, they do. We're talking
Speaker 1: about a small place in Idaho, right, We're not talking
Speaker 1: about a gigantic state with millions and millions of residents.
Speaker 1: So how much of an impact would it really make
Speaker 1: to move this trial to a different venue. It's kind
Speaker 1: of like the situation that Richard Allen finds himself in
Speaker 1: down in Delphi, right And instead of moving the trial,
Speaker 1: instead of moving the proceedings, what they decided to do
Speaker 1: is bus injurors from out side the district. So I
Speaker 1: think we're going to see something similar up here in Idaho.
Speaker 1: But we'll have to wait for Judge Judge obviously to
Speaker 1: make that ruling before we get there, though, we have
Speaker 1: the actual order itself, and then we're going to dive
Speaker 1: into an article from ABC News. The order case number
Speaker 1: CR twenty nine Dash twenty two Dash twenty eight oh
Speaker 1: five Motion for Change of Venue, State of Idaho, Plaintiff
Speaker 1: versus Brian C. Coburger. The defendant comes now, Brian C.
Speaker 1: Coburger buy and through his attorneys, and hereby move this
Speaker 1: Court for a change of venue. By this motion, Brian
Speaker 1: requests a jerry pool from outside Letah County. This motion
Speaker 1: is made pursue it to the fifth, sixth, eighth, and
Speaker 1: fourteenth amendments to the US Constitution, Article one, sections one, six, seven, thirteen,
Speaker 1: and eighteen of the Idaho Constitution. I see our Rules
Speaker 1: twenty one and ice Rule Section nineteen Dash eighteen oh one.
Speaker 1: A fair and impartial jury cannot be found in Layta
Speaker 1: County owing to the extensive inflammatory pre trial publicity, allegations
Speaker 1: made about mister Coburger to the public by the media
Speaker 1: that will be inadmissible at his trial, the small size
Speaker 1: of the community, the salacious nature of the alleged crimes,
Speaker 1: and the severity of the charges mister Coburger faces. Enlarging
Speaker 1: the jury pool will not do anything to overcome that
Speaker 1: pervasive prejudicial publicity because Leayta County does not have a
Speaker 1: large enough population center to avoid the bias in the community. Further,
Speaker 1: the size of the community and the interconnectedness of its
Speaker 1: citizenry is problematic and will prevent a fair and impartial
Speaker 1: pool of potential jurors. Mister Coburger buy And, through his counsel,
Speaker 1: requests an opportunity to be heard through evidentiary presentation and
Speaker 1: argument no sooner than the end of April twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1: This was signed by Anne Taylor and it was dated
Speaker 1: all right now onto the article from ABC News headline
Speaker 1: Idaho college murders. Brian Colberger's lawyers requests change the venue
Speaker 1: outside the jury pool. This article was authored by Sasha
Speaker 1: Peasanik and Josh Margalin, arguing that affair and impartial jury
Speaker 1: cannot be found in the area wherefore Idaho College students
Speaker 1: were killed. In twenty twenty two. Lawyers for the accused
Speaker 1: killer are asking that his capital murder trial be moved
Speaker 1: to a different location so it would be heard by
Speaker 1: jurors who have not been exposed to more than a
Speaker 1: year of news coverage about the case. I mean, okay,
Speaker 1: I get it, but do we really think that jurors
Speaker 1: from a county over haven't been exposed to what's going
Speaker 1: on here. There's people all over the world that's following
Speaker 1: everything that happens. You really think that you're gonna find
Speaker 1: a jury where nobody's hip to the deal, where nobody
Speaker 1: knows what's happening here. That's a pretty big stretch, and really,
Speaker 1: what it looks like to me is just another delay tactic.
Speaker 1: The extensive inflammatory pre trial publicity allegations made about Brian Colberger,
Speaker 1: who stands accused of the killings, the small size of
Speaker 1: the community, the salacious nature of the alleged crimes, and
Speaker 1: the severity of the charges he faces makes pulling an
Speaker 1: unbiased group of local people impossible, his lawyer and Taylor
Speaker 1: said in a two page filing file Tuesday posted to
Speaker 1: the public docket on Wednesday. Coburger is charged with stabbing
Speaker 1: to death for University of Idaho students in November of
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, a crime that rock the quiet Idaho
Speaker 1: college hamlet of Moscow and garnered international attention because the
Speaker 1: crimes at home for so many who might one day
Speaker 1: be tasked with deciding Coburger's fate. His lawyer argues, simply
Speaker 1: enlarging the jury pool within Leita County will not do
Speaker 1: anything to overcome that pervasive prejudicial publicity, since the local
Speaker 1: population is too small and close knit to avoid the
Speaker 1: bias in the community toward their client, and so they
Speaker 1: need a jury from elsewhere, as well as moving the
Speaker 1: trial outside the area. Prosecutors have signaled that they do
Speaker 1: not agree that the national, if not international, attention the
Speaker 1: case is received makes moving it out of the county futile.
Speaker 1: And I agree one thousand percent with that. If we
Speaker 1: were talking about the old days where there was no
Speaker 1: Internet and people weren't always connected and there weren't all
Speaker 1: these different forms of media out there, that would be
Speaker 1: a different story. But We're talking about a new day
Speaker 1: and age right where everybody's interconnected. Everybody, you know, can
Speaker 1: just reach into their pocket and have the whole entire
Speaker 1: world and the news of the world at their fingertips.
Speaker 1: So you mean to tell me moving this trial a
Speaker 1: few miles away is going to have that big of
Speaker 1: an impact. It's not Moscow, it's not Leyta County, it's everywhere.
Speaker 1: So I don't think that a change a venue is
Speaker 1: going to solve any of these problems. Leta County Prosecutor,
Speaker 1: Bill Thompson, leading the case against Coberger, said at a
Speaker 1: pre trial hearing Friday when the issue was raised. We
Speaker 1: have people friends in this community who have traveled to
Speaker 1: Mexico and they say you're from Moscow, and immediately they
Speaker 1: want to talk about this case. And I've had relatives
Speaker 1: reach out to me from across seas, over in Ireland
Speaker 1: and elsewhere talking about this case too. So this is
Speaker 1: certainly something that's international, and when you look at all
Speaker 1: the publicity surrounding it, I mean, I understand the old
Speaker 1: college tribe by Brian Colberger's team, but I just don't
Speaker 1: think it's going to be successful just because it's a
Speaker 1: horrific crime doesn't mean a local jur who may have
Speaker 1: heard about it can't be fair minded about the facts
Speaker 1: before them, or that they're going to be motivated to
Speaker 1: convict the wrong person, said Matt Murphy, a former prosecutor
Speaker 1: in Orange County, California and an ABC News legal contributor.
Speaker 1: They're arguably all the more motivated to find the right
Speaker 1: person when you're talking about brutal murders. Getting it wrong
Speaker 1: means the real killer may still be a danger to
Speaker 1: their families and their neighborhoods, and I think that's something
Speaker 1: that gets lost a lot in the conversation. We're talking
Speaker 1: about people who are in the case community, right, so
Speaker 1: the stakes are obviously the highest for them, and if
Speaker 1: they get it wrong, that means there's certainly a killer
Speaker 1: out there still and their families are in jeopardy. So
Speaker 1: I don't think that these jurors are going to walk
Speaker 1: into the jurors room and just be biased against Brian Coohberger.
Speaker 1: I think that these jurors are going to look at
Speaker 1: the evidence and then go from there. The way the
Speaker 1: right is written is a jury of your peers. And
Speaker 1: while it's right to consider in high profile cases like this,
Speaker 1: because it's so high profile, moving it to another Idaho
Speaker 1: county won't necessarily help. David Calvio, former New Jersey prosecutor
Speaker 1: who is now a criminal defense attorney, told ABC News.
Speaker 1: While it may be difficult to get a fair and
Speaker 1: impartial pool, that's not a reason itself to kick it.
Speaker 1: There's a very high bar to clear for this change
Speaker 1: to be granted, Murphy said, and extensive attention to the
Speaker 1: case is not enough. If that was the case, then
Speaker 1: every single one of these trials that we see that
Speaker 1: has some notoriety around it would be moving venues. Successful
Speaker 1: motions to change venue are exceedingly rare, Murphy said. Essentially,
Speaker 1: the defense has to establish that they cannot find twelve
Speaker 1: fair jurs in the current jurisdiction, which is a tall order.
Speaker 1: It's not just that people have heard about the case.
Speaker 1: They must be fundamentally unable to follow the law and
Speaker 1: biased towards the defendant. So that's the rub, Right, just
Speaker 1: because jurors have heard about the case, that doesn't mean
Speaker 1: everybody's going to walk in there and just be biased
Speaker 1: against Coburger, especially if the evidence leads them somewhere else.
Speaker 1: In court On Friday, Thompson argued the local community offers
Speaker 1: a reason they should keep the case in Latak County
Speaker 1: rather than grounds for moving it. We at least owe
Speaker 1: Layta County, the people of Leatah County, the attempt to
Speaker 1: see it a jury here first, and not just rely
Speaker 1: on there's been a lot of publicity. There's been a
Speaker 1: lot of publicity everywhere. Thompson said. The prosecutor's team has
Speaker 1: already drafted a fairly comprehensive juror questionnaire for a party's review.
Speaker 1: Thompson said the Court and Council can assess the level
Speaker 1: of knowledge and the feelings of the potential jerry pool.
Speaker 1: We believe that we can select an appropriate panel of
Speaker 1: jurors from Leta County. We have the tools to work
Speaker 1: with that, and that we've discussed with your honor, he
Speaker 1: told the judge. Prosecutors allege that in the early morning
Speaker 1: hours of November thirteenth, twenty twenty two, Coburger, then a
Speaker 1: criminology PhD student at nearby Washington State University, broke into
Speaker 1: an off campus home and stabbed four University of Idaho
Speaker 1: students to death. Ethan Chapin twenty Madison Mogan, twenty one,
Speaker 1: Zana Kernodle twenty and Kaylee Gonsalves twenty one. After a
Speaker 1: six week hunt, police zeroed in on Coburger as a suspect,
Speaker 1: arresting him in December twenty twenty two at his family's
Speaker 1: home in Pennsylvania. He was indicted in May and charged
Speaker 1: with four counts a first degree murder and one count
Speaker 1: of burglary. At his arrayment, he declined to offer a plea,
Speaker 1: so the judge entered a not guilty plea on his behalf.
Speaker 1: Coberger could face the death penalty if he's convicted. His
Speaker 1: lawyers have said that their client wasn't in the home
Speaker 1: where the homicides occurred and was driving around alone that night. Oh,
Speaker 1: I'm sure that's what was going on, and I'm sure
Speaker 1: there's a lot of witnesses that can corroborate that. Right. Right,
Speaker 1: a trial date has not yet been set, and we
Speaker 1: know they're trying to push it back. We know that
Speaker 1: the prosecutors want this summer, but the defense team looks
Speaker 1: like they want to push it all the way back
Speaker 1: to twenty twenty five. Now you want to talk about
Speaker 1: enraging people, Let this shit get pushed to twenty twenty
Speaker 1: five and you'll see rage. Prosecutors have been pushing to
Speaker 1: hold the trial this summer, but in court Friday, Coberger's
Speaker 1: lawyer said they do not believe that timeline was realistic
Speaker 1: in any way, given the complexity of the case and
Speaker 1: the weighty potential sentence, especially if the trial remains local.
Speaker 1: If a trial were to happen in Leayta County, we
Speaker 1: would suggest looking at the summer of twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1: Taylor said in court. There are a lot of things
Speaker 1: that we still have to do. Okay, I guess, but
Speaker 1: justice shouldn't have to wait around for you. Hire a
Speaker 1: few more lawyers, get some more interns. It's all on
Speaker 1: the dime of the state of Idaho anyway, right, So
Speaker 1: let's get the process moving now. If the judge looks
Speaker 1: at everything and says, all right, we can't make it happen,
Speaker 1: then I guess it is what it is, because later
Speaker 1: on down the road, we don't want to give this
Speaker 1: dude any sort of you know, flotation device as he's
Speaker 1: drowning in his sentence right trying to get an appeal
Speaker 1: and shit. So it's a good idea to make sure
Speaker 1: that all the teaser crossed and all the eyes dotted,
Speaker 1: and that certainly seems to be what Judge Judge has
Speaker 1: been doing this whole time, So I don't think he's
Speaker 1: going to get this change of venue. And I think
Speaker 1: that maybe what we'll see is Judge Judge split the
Speaker 1: baby and brings yourors in from a different county. But
Speaker 1: like usual, we'll keep an eye on things and when
Speaker 1: we have some more information, we'll get it added to
Speaker 1: the catalog. All right, folks, that's going to do it
Speaker 1: for this one. All the information that goes with this
Speaker 1: episode can be found in the description box. What's up everyone,
Speaker 1: and welcome back to the program. Brian Cohberger and his
Speaker 1: legal team are still fighting for a change of venue,
Speaker 1: and according to a monstrous three hundred and nineteen page
Speaker 1: filing that was filed by and Taylor, Brian Coberger's lawyer,
Speaker 1: she says that she wants this trial moved to Boise
Speaker 1: and the reasoning being, she says, is that Brian Coberger
Speaker 1: is not going to be able to get a fair
Speaker 1: trial in Moscow. And if it was the year nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy five, I'd agree with her. But in the year
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, where everybody's connected, where everybody in Moscow,
Speaker 1: everybody in Ada County, everybody around the world has access
Speaker 1: to the same information. Does it really make that big
Speaker 1: of a deal. In my opinion, it doesn't, because everybody
Speaker 1: has the same access to the same news and the
Speaker 1: same stories. So what's the difference of having this trial
Speaker 1: in Moscow as opposed to Ada County. There is no difference,
Speaker 1: except you're going to spend more money. You're going to
Speaker 1: be putting more of a financial burden on the taxpayer
Speaker 1: who's already paying both ends of this, considering that Brian
Speaker 1: Colberger is using a public defender, and of course they
Speaker 1: have to pay for the prosecution. So now you're going
Speaker 1: to burden the taxpayer even more by trying to move
Speaker 1: this to Ada County. And look, if there was a
Speaker 1: legitimate reason where you know he's going to get a
Speaker 1: better shot at a fair trial up there, then yeah,
Speaker 1: I'd be on board. But I don't think that's the case.
Speaker 1: And this is just more maneuvering and wrangling from his
Speaker 1: legal team as they continue to try to slow this
Speaker 1: process down because the more time they have, obviously the
Speaker 1: better their defense is going to be, or at least
Speaker 1: they hope. But in my opinion, I think that when
Speaker 1: all is said and done, the evidence is going to
Speaker 1: be overwhelming against Brian Colberger, and barring serious prosecutorial misconduct here,
Speaker 1: I have a hard time believing that Brian Colberger is
Speaker 1: going to find a way to shake these charges. And
Speaker 1: if I was the state of Idaho, I just say, look,
Speaker 1: if Donald Trump can get a fair trial in New
Speaker 1: York City, one can get a fair trial anywhere. Because
Speaker 1: I don't think there's a situation more divisive than that, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, we have some divisive situations in the country,
Speaker 1: but is there a hot button issue like Donald Trump?
Speaker 1: Highly doubt it. So I understand Dan Taylor's strategy here
Speaker 1: and I understand her motivation, but I don't think it's
Speaker 1: going to be successful when all of the chips are
Speaker 1: cashed in. Today's article is from CBS News and the
Speaker 1: headline lawyer for Idaho murder suspect Brian Colberger wants trial
Speaker 1: moved to Boise, citing inflammatory coverage. So it's going to
Speaker 1: be different up in Boise, Like, what's the purpose here?
Speaker 1: What's the motivation? Because in Boise, with it being a
Speaker 1: bigger city, more access for journalists and for people to
Speaker 1: show up, you don't think it's going to turn into
Speaker 1: more of a circus. Then again, that could be exactly
Speaker 1: what Anne Taylor is gunning for after seeing what happened
Speaker 1: with Karen Reid. Maybe that's Ann Taylor's goal here to
Speaker 1: try and get enough people convinced that Brian Colberger is innocent.
Speaker 1: So there's some kind of grindwell push, as far as
Speaker 1: you know, trying to sway the public's view of Brian
Speaker 1: Colberger and his alleged crimes. Now would they be successful
Speaker 1: doing that, I highly doubt it. Two very different situations,
Speaker 1: but there's always people out there, contrarians who think that
Speaker 1: these murderers are innocent. Unfortunately for them in this case,
Speaker 1: I don't think that they're on the right track. I
Speaker 1: think that the government, the state of Idaho got the
Speaker 1: right guy when we're talking about Brian Colberger, and I
Speaker 1: think that when the bulk of the evidence is presented
Speaker 1: in court, we'll all see that. In HD, there's no
Speaker 1: author of this article, so we'll just credit it to
Speaker 1: the staff over at CBS. Lawyers for the man accused
Speaker 1: of fatally stabbing for University of Idaho students are urging
Speaker 1: a judge to move his murder trial away from the county,
Speaker 1: arguing the intense media coverage and public interest in the
Speaker 1: case make it impossible for him to get a fair trial.
Speaker 1: Their requests marked the latest legal turn more than twenty
Speaker 1: months after the quadruple murder case made international headlines, So
Speaker 1: there hasn't really been much going on. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of wrangling behind the scenes in the courtroom, but as
Speaker 1: far as publicly, not much going on at all. And
Speaker 1: with this latest filing that Ann Taylor just dropped on us,
Speaker 1: that's pretty much the first filing of consequence we've had
Speaker 1: in quite some time now. That's not to say that
Speaker 1: there haven't been filings. There most certainly have been, but
Speaker 1: they haven't been that consequential one page, couple of paragraphs,
Speaker 1: stuff like that. But this one, this is a monster
Speaker 1: and we're going to dive into that order later on today.
Speaker 1: It's only about thirteen pages, but there's a bunch of
Speaker 1: exhibits that are attached to it, so we'll definitely start
Speaker 1: making our way through that as well. Considering the lack
Speaker 1: of other news, it's about time that we had some
Speaker 1: movement here. The prolific media coverage in Leaythai County is
Speaker 1: not a mirror passing story and Taylor, a public defender
Speaker 1: for Brian Colberger, said in a change of venue motion
Speaker 1: made public on Tuesday, the content is not benign. Rather,
Speaker 1: it's in flammatory emotion, evoking and often misleading, false and
Speaker 1: poorly sourced. There is no reasonable belief that media coverage
Speaker 1: will slow regardless of how long the case takes to
Speaker 1: prepare for trial. Oh so, all of a sudden and
Speaker 1: Taylor is asking for silence again when it comes to
Speaker 1: this case. I thought she wanted transparency, which we know
Speaker 1: she doesn't, considering they're the ones who wanted the gag order, considering,
Speaker 1: there were the ones who fought against cameras in the
Speaker 1: courtroom initially, and they're going to continue to fight against
Speaker 1: transparency because they know that the optics aren't good for
Speaker 1: their client. And that's exactly what they should be doing.
Speaker 1: And Taylor is doing her a job, and I know
Speaker 1: a lot of people don't like it, but she's doing
Speaker 1: it pretty well. There is no reasonable belief that the
Speaker 1: media coverage will slow regardless of how long the case
Speaker 1: takes to prepare for trial. Well, that's true. It's just
Speaker 1: going to ramp up the closer we get to trial,
Speaker 1: the more people are going to be interested, and the
Speaker 1: more tread this story is going to get. It's inevitable.
Speaker 1: But does that mean all of the coverage is slanted
Speaker 1: against Brian Kolberger. It most certainly does not. In order
Speaker 1: to protect Coburger's constitutional right to a fair trial, it
Speaker 1: should be moved the Boise, she said Leta County prosecutor
Speaker 1: Bill Thompson said he opposes moving the trial. He's argued
Speaker 1: that the case has received national and international attention, so
Speaker 1: taking it away out of the county would not affect
Speaker 1: a potential juror who might be familiar with the case.
Speaker 1: The two sides are scheduled to argue their positions at
Speaker 1: an August twenty ninth hearing, and unless there's some sort
Speaker 1: of severe change in circumstance, I have a very hard
Speaker 1: time seeing John Judge acquiescing to this request and giving
Speaker 1: them the venue change because I don't think it's going
Speaker 1: to affect things one way or the other. And my
Speaker 1: guess is that's the way the court's going to feel
Speaker 1: an Idaho as well. Coburger, a former criminal justice student
Speaker 1: at Washington State University in nearby Pullman, Washington, is charged
Speaker 1: with fatally stabbing for students Kaylee Gonsalves, Madison Mogan, Xana Kernodle,
Speaker 1: and Ethan Chapin at a rental home near campus in Moscow, Idaho,
Speaker 1: sometime in the early morning hours of November thirteenth, twenty
Speaker 1: twenty two. Bayley's father, Steve Gonsalvez, told forty eight Hours
Speaker 1: last year that there is evidence to show that she
Speaker 1: awakened and tried to get out of that situation, saying
Speaker 1: she was trapped based on the way the bed was
Speaker 1: set up, and during the early stages of all of this,
Speaker 1: it appeared as if Kaylee might have been the target,
Speaker 1: But upon further evaluation and getting more of the details,
Speaker 1: it looks like Madison Mogan was the target. And when
Speaker 1: you really start chopping it up and look at all
Speaker 1: the evidence, it really leads you to that conclusion, at
Speaker 1: least as of now. Again, obviously things can change, but
Speaker 1: as of now, with the evidence that has been given
Speaker 1: to us or been presented, I would say that it's
Speaker 1: pretty likely that Madison was the initial target. Remember, Kaylee
Speaker 1: wasn't even living there at the time, she had moved
Speaker 1: away already, and she was just back to show Madison
Speaker 1: her new car, and she happened to get caught up
Speaker 1: in this madman's killing rampage. Police arrested Coburger six weeks
Speaker 1: later at his parents' home in Pennsylvania, where he was
Speaker 1: spending winter break. Investigators said they link Colberger to the
Speaker 1: crime using DNA found on a knife sheath at the scene,
Speaker 1: surveillance videos, and cell phone data. And remember, it's the
Speaker 1: totality of the evidence that's so strong against Brian Colberger.
Speaker 1: It's not just one piece, whereas the DNA on the sheath,
Speaker 1: that's definitely the strongest bit of evidence, but it's all
Speaker 1: this other stuff tied together. It leads us to a
Speaker 1: place where it's very hard to say that Brian Colberger
Speaker 1: is innocent. Colburger has maintained his innocence. His defense lawyers
Speaker 1: have said in core documents that he was out driving
Speaker 1: alone on the night of the killings, something he did often.
Speaker 1: His trial is tentatively set for June of twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1: It will be up to Judge John C. Judge to
Speaker 1: decide whether it remains in Moscow, with a population of
Speaker 1: forty one thousand, or moves two hundred and ninety six
Speaker 1: miles south. The Boise with a population of two hundred
Speaker 1: and thirty six thousand, six hundred and thirty four Leta County, Idaho,
Speaker 1: is a small, tightly knit community. Based on survey results,
Speaker 1: it's a community with a pre judgment for conviction and
Speaker 1: death sentence. Taylor wrote, some of the major employers in
Speaker 1: the community are people connected to law enforcement and the
Speaker 1: University of Idaho. Earlier this year, Taylor argued in court
Speaker 1: that prosecutors were withholding information from the defense team, claiming
Speaker 1: that Leyta County prosecutors have not provided a full video
Speaker 1: that allegedly shows Coburger's vehicle by the residents where the
Speaker 1: four students were killed. Taylor said that the defense has
Speaker 1: only received parts of the video which is described and
Speaker 1: the probable cause that of David that was used to
Speaker 1: arrest Coburger, and said that the video did not have sound.
Speaker 1: And I really can't comment one way or the other
Speaker 1: on discovery because we don't have any access to what's
Speaker 1: going on behind the scenes. Have they sent it over,
Speaker 1: have they not sent it over? Did they only send
Speaker 1: a partial video? Remember, all we have to go on
Speaker 1: is Ann Taylor's filing, and that doesn't mean that her
Speaker 1: filing is correct, that's what she's alleging. That's what she's
Speaker 1: saying she thinks happened. So we don't know for sure
Speaker 1: sure what's been turned over and what hasn't been turned
Speaker 1: over unless it's in the court docket and it's unsealed.
Speaker 1: But we know that a lot of this evidence has
Speaker 1: been turned in and it's under seal, so it's very
Speaker 1: hard to discern one way or the other what's going
Speaker 1: on completely behind the scenes. Gonsalva's family said in the
Speaker 1: spring that they were frustrated by how long it's taken
Speaker 1: the case to progress through the judicial system. This banter
Speaker 1: has been going on for seventeen months. Then once you
Speaker 1: get a hearing, you have a hearing about the decision
Speaker 1: that was made at the hearing before the last hearing,
Speaker 1: and there needs to be another hearing. The family said
Speaker 1: in a statement. This case is turning into a hamster
Speaker 1: wheel of motions, hearings and delayed decisions. And I would
Speaker 1: feel the same way if I was the Gonsalves family,
Speaker 1: but being an outsider and just observing what's going on. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: this is the way it works. It takes time for
Speaker 1: something like this to really get swinging into motion. And
Speaker 1: when we're talking about a death penalty case to boot, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're gonna have a lot of bumps in the road
Speaker 1: and it's going to take a while to get to
Speaker 1: the destination. And when all is said and done, if
Speaker 1: the prosecutors did the right thing, they followed the rules,
Speaker 1: and they made sure that they were within the bounds
Speaker 1: of all of the regulations, then things should work out
Speaker 1: well for the State of Idaho. But if not and
Speaker 1: the prosecutors were screwing around they didn't turn this discovery over,
Speaker 1: it won't be the outcome that everybody's looking for. And
Speaker 1: the State of Idaho has already shown precedent to punish
Speaker 1: the prosecution if they're not completely honest or if they're
Speaker 1: delaying things. Look what happened with Lori Beallo. So it's
Speaker 1: very interesting to see which way this is all going
Speaker 1: to go. And obviously we're going to keep an eye
Speaker 1: on things, and when we have some significant news to add,
Speaker 1: we'll certainly do that. Now there hasn't been much to
Speaker 1: talk about, so as you all know, I'm not just
Speaker 1: going to force the issue. We follow the news here
Speaker 1: and wherever it leads us, that's where we go. So
Speaker 1: with that in mind, when we have something of note
Speaker 1: to add, we'll certainly get it added to the catalog.
Speaker 1: And like I was saying before, or we have the
Speaker 1: thirteen page motion about this venue change, and I'm definitely
Speaker 1: going to have that bad Boy added very soon. That
Speaker 1: way we can see in full what Anne Taylor's saying
Speaker 1: and what she's asking for. So until then, that's going
Speaker 1: to do it for this one. All of the information
Speaker 1: that goes with this episode can be found in the
Speaker 1: description box.