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<v Speaker 1>If you want to get the show early and ad free,

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<v Speaker 1>Now listen very carefully. I've had some people ask me

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<v Speaker 1>about this, even though I think on the last ad

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<v Speaker 1>I stated it pretty clearly. If you want an RSS feed,

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<v Speaker 1>access to the audio file. So head on over to

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<v Speaker 1>the pekan Yonashow dot com. You'll see all the ways

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<v Speaker 1>that you can support me there. And I just want

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<v Speaker 1>to thank everyone. It's because of you that I can

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<v Speaker 1>put out the amount of material that I do. I

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<v Speaker 1>can do what I'm doing with doctor Johnson on two

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<v Speaker 1>hundred Years Together and everything else, the things that Thomas

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<v Speaker 1>and I are doing together on condinal philosophy, it's all

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<v Speaker 1>because of you. And yeah, I mean, I'll never be

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<v Speaker 1>able to thank you enough. So thank you. The Pekanyonashow

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<v Speaker 1>dot com. Everything's there. I want to welcome everyone back

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<v Speaker 1>to the Peking yonas show Thomas is back. We're going

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<v Speaker 1>to take a little bit of a detour, as we

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<v Speaker 1>do very often, to talk about a subject that's spent

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<v Speaker 1>at the forefront of Thomas's mind recently, the que unquote

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<v Speaker 1>trial of Adolf Eichman. So Thomas take it away, please.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's an important subject matter. It's not just a

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<v Speaker 2>question a trivia relevant to people who are into the

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<v Speaker 2>third Reichen revisionism. It came up because I was talking

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<v Speaker 2>to Burden and he was talking about how odd it

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<v Speaker 2>is that not just formal representatives of Lekud, but apologists

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<v Speaker 2>for Israel all in Sundry, and even people aren't Jewish,

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<v Speaker 2>they speak of Israel as being synonymous with the Jews

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<v Speaker 2>as a people, and they talk about Israel as being

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<v Speaker 2>the formal instantation of the which people at international law.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's not just a colloquialism or some odd convention

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<v Speaker 2>that developed over time for ideological reasons. That's very much

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<v Speaker 2>coded into the world system, and that was put to

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<v Speaker 2>the A lot of things are put to the test

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<v Speaker 2>with the trial of ad Off Aikman, including this sort

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<v Speaker 2>of special dispensations Israel has at international law, and it

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<v Speaker 2>also it also had the force of solidifying and establishing

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<v Speaker 2>as precedent for all time this anti fascist convention whereby

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<v Speaker 2>people can be held into court for allegedly having been

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<v Speaker 2>involved in what's declared to be what was unilaterally declared

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<v Speaker 2>to be criminal acts and in the service of the

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<v Speaker 2>acts powers. And there was weird intrigues around Eikman and

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<v Speaker 2>his apprehension, and he was something of an odd target,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, to be clear. And Hannah Rent gets into this.

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<v Speaker 2>Her book I Come in Jerusalem is a mixed bag.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm the one that's very critical of Israel and it's

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<v Speaker 2>not and it's bliger refueled to a observed due process.

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<v Speaker 2>But in the other there's some weak spots of it.

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<v Speaker 2>And it was very much written for a mass audience,

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<v Speaker 2>and it was very much written according to the convention of

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<v Speaker 2>political correctness of that time, which was the ear Lane sixties.

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<v Speaker 2>Remember people who think political correctness just appeared one day

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<v Speaker 2>in nineteen ninety or something. They don't understand this country. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>it was around before any of us were born. And

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<v Speaker 2>I judge it particularly contra both the origins of Sotalitarianism,

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<v Speaker 2>which is a really great book, and the titles misleading

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<v Speaker 2>that's actually not what it's about at all, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>and it very much has to do with the deep

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<v Speaker 2>sociology of how and why this has profound enmity developed

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<v Speaker 2>between the Jewish minority in Europe and and you know

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<v Speaker 2>European people, particularly as the nation state deteriorated in favor

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<v Speaker 2>of supernational structures, you know, as a superpower error emerged.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's an important point that's not well understood, particularly

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<v Speaker 2>in America, even by historians or somewhat critical of mainstream narratives.

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<v Speaker 2>The meaning that Third Reich was that it was a

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<v Speaker 2>pan European tendency. The whole point of it was to

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<v Speaker 2>create a new order whereby Europe became a superpower and

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<v Speaker 2>that process that gave rise to, you know, the the

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<v Speaker 2>establishment of the Third Reich and the Soviet Union, and

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<v Speaker 2>that you know, in historical capacities, allowed the United States

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<v Speaker 2>to martialists resources into an incredible degree of power projection

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<v Speaker 2>aside of the scene. That was the approximate cause of

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<v Speaker 2>this horrendous violence that, to be clear, emerged from both sides,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, between Jews and Germans, and Jews and Russians,

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<v Speaker 2>and ultimately, you know, Zionists turned their violent attentions to

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<v Speaker 2>darl Islam and the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, and that

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<v Speaker 2>that's actually very much an earned nolty point that Hana

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<v Speaker 2>Rent made and that's no surprise because you know, she

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<v Speaker 2>was a heightier accolade, just like Ernstnulty was, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>and they absolutely crossed paths. How close or they were,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, it is questionable. I don't believe they're particularly friendly,

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<v Speaker 2>but they definitely shared epistemological assumptions and things. But that's

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<v Speaker 2>that's why this is important. And to understand the present situation,

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<v Speaker 2>you've got to understand the Kman trial as precedent, because

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<v Speaker 2>the international military tribunal that committed at Nuremberg, that that

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<v Speaker 2>established the configuration of the global regime's legal order that

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<v Speaker 2>was only finally fully realized in nineteen eighty nine. But

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<v Speaker 2>the Aikman trial that established the special dispensations and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>exclusive privileges of the Jewish state within that system, and

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<v Speaker 2>that's not well understood. Not a lot is well understood

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<v Speaker 2>about Iikman either. Obviously they needed some sort of figure

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<v Speaker 2>to burn in verbial effigy, and because they're outside of

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<v Speaker 2>you know, men who've served as general officers in the

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<v Speaker 2>Vermachta of Offen SS. There wasn't you know, the Nationals,

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<v Speaker 2>his leadership didn't really exist anymore. They'd been executed or

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<v Speaker 2>they died, so deciding Iikman, they what they hung on him.

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<v Speaker 2>The label was he's the quote architect of the Holocaust.

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<v Speaker 2>That's really really strange for all kinds of reasons, not

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<v Speaker 2>the least of which Iikman was a fairly irrelevant person.

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<v Speaker 2>He he was a young guy, you know, when the

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<v Speaker 2>war ended, he was only about forty or he just

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<v Speaker 2>turned forty one. He was born March nineteenth, nineteen oh six.

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<v Speaker 2>He'd his final rank was over stromb on Field, which

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<v Speaker 2>was the SS equivalent of a lieutenant colonel in the

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<v Speaker 2>NATO rank system. At base, he was a policeman and

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<v Speaker 2>he served the r s h A, which was the

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<v Speaker 2>right Secure TOMP, the Reichmane Security Office. He ended up

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<v Speaker 2>becoming the chief of Department for BE four, which was

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<v Speaker 2>Jewish affairs. He'd come up initially through the SD and

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<v Speaker 2>the Security Police as being assigned to spying on Freemasons

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<v Speaker 2>and fraternal organizations that were considered to be subversive, which

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<v Speaker 2>again was a pretty middling detail. And he was some

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<v Speaker 2>sort of logistics savant he could that was a real

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<v Speaker 2>strong suit. And that's what's remarkable about him. He had

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<v Speaker 2>a genius for logistical planning and crunching the numbers in

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<v Speaker 2>his head. That entailed moving mass amounts of human beings

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<v Speaker 2>and material as needed in under conditions of you know, war,

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<v Speaker 2>peace time, and varying degrees of mobilization, and that owes

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<v Speaker 2>to the Holocaust and narrative places of premium on well,

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<v Speaker 2>these this moving around of populations at massive scale, These

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<v Speaker 2>people are being delivered to their doom, and Eichman the

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<v Speaker 2>savant was delivering them to their death and mass. So

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<v Speaker 2>that part of it makes sense. With this idea that

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<v Speaker 2>he was this important personage in the German Reich is

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<v Speaker 2>totally off base and just odd at to understand what

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<v Speaker 2>is rank would have been, or i mean, his cloud

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<v Speaker 2>or relative power within the executive of the the Reich.

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<v Speaker 2>You know Himler was under Heinrich Mueller, who came eve

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<v Speaker 2>known as Gestappo Muller, who's the head of the Gestapo.

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<v Speaker 2>Gestappo Mueller served directly under Ryinod Heydrich, who was chief

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<v Speaker 2>of the SD and the chief of the RSHA and

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<v Speaker 2>after he was murdered, Ernst Carlton Berner came into the role.

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<v Speaker 2>Heidrich and the later kalten Berner served under Himmler. Himmler

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<v Speaker 2>technically was second only to Hitler because he was the

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<v Speaker 2>reichs Farrss. But Hitler and Himmler were not close. They

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<v Speaker 2>weren't friends. They didn't socialize, They seldom saw each other.

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<v Speaker 2>They're you know, they didn't associate socially. Himler was a

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<v Speaker 2>bit of a loose cannon who Hitler reviewed as being

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<v Speaker 2>radically dedicated to the cause. He was an old fighter,

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<v Speaker 2>he'd been at Munich in ninety twenty three. He'd come

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<v Speaker 2>up through Rohm's Free Corps. So his credentials spoke for

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<v Speaker 2>themselves in terms of his willingness to sacrifice for the party.

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<v Speaker 2>But you know that that was it. There wasn't a

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<v Speaker 2>personal relationship to speak between Hitler and Himler. This idea

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<v Speaker 2>that this idea that Aikman was some approximate to the

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<v Speaker 2>fur had great power. That's that that that doesn't make

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<v Speaker 2>any sense. That'd be that'd be like taking some kind

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<v Speaker 2>of random career homely in security man and declaring that

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<v Speaker 2>he's the actual power behind Donald Trump or something. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm just for context that it doesn't really make any

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<v Speaker 2>sense what I believe happened with Aikman. And this is

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<v Speaker 2>pretty well substantial by this point by people who want

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<v Speaker 2>to dig into the record. Ikeman after the war, like

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of people who'd served the Access Powers, and

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<v Speaker 2>not just Germans, but Italians, Croas, Japanese, Slovaks, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>all manner of people, they found a new home in

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<v Speaker 2>Latin America, particularly Argentina. But Argentina also is a very

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<v Speaker 2>European coded place culturally, and the Prone government was very

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<v Speaker 2>friendly to National Socialists, as was the Strassner government. So

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<v Speaker 2>after the war, Iikman, just by virtue was a membership

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<v Speaker 2>in the SS and you know, particularly the RSHJ meant

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<v Speaker 2>that he would be a wanted man, but it wasn't

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<v Speaker 2>really a private He wasn't really anybody's radar for years.

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<v Speaker 2>Then what happened was there's the publication of what came

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<v Speaker 2>to be known as the Aikman Papers. Now this came

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<v Speaker 2>about because in Argentina there's a man named Wilhelm Sassen

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<v Speaker 2>who came to know Iikman, and he also probably came

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<v Speaker 2>to know Mengola personally, Mengol is a lot more sympathetic

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<v Speaker 2>of a figure than Iikman in my opinion, because he

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<v Speaker 2>Mengela literally got transformed into this into this horror movie

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<v Speaker 2>monster by propaganda. It's totally totally bizarre. And Mengola drowned

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<v Speaker 2>when he was swimming as an elderly man and his

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<v Speaker 2>identity wasn't confirmed for some years. But so, I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>he he escaped the vengeance of the Jewish state and

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<v Speaker 2>of the Justice Department's OSI, but I'm sure he didn't

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<v Speaker 2>have a happy way where he was living out his

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<v Speaker 2>twilight years. But because it may the deal with wil

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<v Speaker 2>Hum Sassen billm. Sassen was that he was a Flemish

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<v Speaker 2>National Socialist and from Holland, and he joined the s

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<v Speaker 2>S as a as a work correspondent and as a

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<v Speaker 2>as a Dutch language propagandist on behalf of the the

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<v Speaker 2>NSD A p and Uh. He was on deck with

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<v Speaker 2>documenting a lot of antipartisan action, so he witnessed some

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<v Speaker 2>pretty severe stuff and he may have he may have

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<v Speaker 2>participated in it in a direct action capacity. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm talking about mass shootings and non combatants and the

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<v Speaker 2>kind of stuff that was common to the ost front

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<v Speaker 2>on both sides. But Sasen he was an incredibly shady

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<v Speaker 2>guy and he was almost certainly some kind of intelligence

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<v Speaker 2>asset for the boond this Republic or British intelligence or

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<v Speaker 2>the CIA. You know, he probably did this for cynical reasons.

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<v Speaker 2>He it's hard to imagine a man like him having

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<v Speaker 2>any principles. But what Sassen did was he Eikman was

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<v Speaker 2>kind of a naive person. He was almost autistic by

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<v Speaker 2>all accounts. Sassen befriended Aikman and he said, I want

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<v Speaker 2>to I want to help you draft your memoirs because

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<v Speaker 2>you were an important man who was witnessed to history,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, we need to set the record straight.

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<v Speaker 2>So what was produced was this six hundred pages of documents,

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<v Speaker 2>which is mostly conversations between Sassen and Eichman about the

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<v Speaker 2>war years, about the structure of the ss ON on

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<v Speaker 2>the SD side and the r SAHA side, which at

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<v Speaker 2>then at that point was little known. There wasn't much

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<v Speaker 2>written about it, and the men who'd served the organization

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<v Speaker 2>were very secretive about it. And within the pages of

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<v Speaker 2>this testimonial, Aikman says some pretty incriminating stuff but not

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<v Speaker 2>of the sort that people might think. And what Sasen

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<v Speaker 2>did was he proceeded to sell these pages to a

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<v Speaker 2>Life magazine, obviously without Aikman's knowledge. And then subsequently, what's

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<v Speaker 2>you know what lands like a bomb in English speaking

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<v Speaker 2>media markets On the front page of Life magazine is

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<v Speaker 2>this picture of Aikman in his SS uniform and in

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<v Speaker 2>bold letters to interview with the devil, the architect of

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<v Speaker 2>the Holocaust. And so suddenly Eichman is on people's radar

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<v Speaker 2>and sausted all but disclose exactly where Aikman lived. And

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<v Speaker 2>to be clear, Aikman, to his credit, he was still

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<v Speaker 2>married to his wife, you know, who he'd brought with him.

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<v Speaker 2>He actually had a young child, you know, who arrived

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<v Speaker 2>late in life, you know, and he was working as

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<v Speaker 2>some sort of office job. I think he was working

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<v Speaker 2>as an accountant for some small machine firm or something,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, and living in the Buenos Aire suburbs, just

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<v Speaker 2>kind minding his own business, you know. I mean, he

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<v Speaker 2>was living under an alias, but it's not like he

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<v Speaker 2>was under deep cover or something. And when when this

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<v Speaker 2>kind of entered the public mind, you know, very suddenly

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<v Speaker 2>the question became, why is this man free. Why isn't

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<v Speaker 2>he facing justice? You know this, this man is the

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<v Speaker 2>most evil personal life. He he was the architect of

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<v Speaker 2>the Holocaust, you know, so very, so very quickly this

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<v Speaker 2>became a priority of them, SAD two capture him and

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<v Speaker 2>avail him to a show trial, but first and foremost

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<v Speaker 2>to interrogate him and and sort of fill in the

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<v Speaker 2>gaps of what they wanted to know. And during the

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<v Speaker 2>Cold War, and you know, all information of this sort

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<v Speaker 2>was valuable, even though it might not seem so to

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<v Speaker 2>a layman, but also if you're somebody engaged with the

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<v Speaker 2>historical process, whether as a secret policeman or an intelligence agent,

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<v Speaker 2>or a military man, or just a nobody kind of

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<v Speaker 2>documentarian like me, this is a valuable score a person

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<v Speaker 2>like Eikman. And what's interesting is Simon Wisenthal, who has

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<v Speaker 2>proven to be a total liar. I'm not talking about

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<v Speaker 2>what he alleged about events in World War Two, although

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<v Speaker 2>that obviously wasn't credible either, but he made a whole

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<v Speaker 2>career out of making up stories about being involved in

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<v Speaker 2>capturing these Third Reich figures. And he claimed that he

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<v Speaker 2>located Iikman. That's complete nonsense. He He'senthal was that nobody

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<v Speaker 2>who built a career on bullshit and presenting himself as

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<v Speaker 2>as some sort of Frederick Forsyke novel character. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>this was completely confabulated. And like I said too, Iikman

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't really hiding number one and number two such that

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<v Speaker 2>he was under light cover. That was all over by

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<v Speaker 2>the time Sasen sold his testimony to Life magazine. So

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<v Speaker 2>on the evening of May eleven, nineteen sixty Iikeman, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>is on his way home from work like any other night,

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<v Speaker 2>and he gets grabbed by Masad operatives, you know, thrown

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<v Speaker 2>into a car, subdued with some kind of drug. You know.

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<v Speaker 2>Nine days later, he's been flown to Israel and thrown

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<v Speaker 2>in a jail cell when a veiled to interrogation for

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<v Speaker 2>the next eleven months, and on April eleven, nineteen sixty one,

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<v Speaker 2>he found himself in district court in Jerusalem, being arraigned

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<v Speaker 2>on fifteen counts, including the allegation that, together with co conspirators,

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<v Speaker 2>he committed crimes against the Jewish people, as well as

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<v Speaker 2>crimes against humanity, war crimes, and the usual litany of charges.

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<v Speaker 2>At first solid of the day at the International Military

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<v Speaker 2>tribunal a decade and a half prior. But what was

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<v Speaker 2>significant and what was novel, was this claim that Aikman

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<v Speaker 2>had offended against the Jewish people as a people, and

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<v Speaker 2>that Israel was the the jury representative at international law

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<v Speaker 2>of the Jewish people as as an ethnos or as

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<v Speaker 2>a confessional and sectarian community and as a matter of law.

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<v Speaker 2>That's problematic, and interestingly, a lot of these Jewish organizations

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<v Speaker 2>in America, in the Bunue Republic, in the UK this

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't the case. But a lot of these American Jewish

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<v Speaker 2>mngos said, wait, wait, wait a minute. You know, the

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<v Speaker 2>government in Tel Aviv is isn't the representative of all

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<v Speaker 2>Jewish people. That's that's not the way we want to proceed,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's probably not even legally cognizable, you know, this

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<v Speaker 2>idea that like that to be clear too, that the

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<v Speaker 2>claim of the Jewish state in this context, it wasn't

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<v Speaker 2>that they govern in Tel Aviv is the representative of

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<v Speaker 2>Jewish people the nation of Israel. The claim was that

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<v Speaker 2>it literally was the representative of the Jewish people as

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<v Speaker 2>the Jewish people on this planet, whatever their nation of

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<v Speaker 2>origin and whatever language they speak. And if you with

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<v Speaker 2>specific intent to harm the Jews as a people, offend

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<v Speaker 2>against them. Their legal representation. The their legal representative as

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<v Speaker 2>a matter of law is the Jewish State, and they

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<v Speaker 2>can stand in for the Jewish diaspora as a matter

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<v Speaker 2>of law. And like bern and I were talking about,

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<v Speaker 2>this is why when these you know, it's not just

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<v Speaker 2>wackos like Mark Levin or extremists biggests like Dershowitz, when

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<v Speaker 2>these people claim that if you're attacking the Jewish State,

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<v Speaker 2>you're engaged in anti Semitism. That's not just a colloquialism

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<v Speaker 2>or a polemical device. They're saying, as a matter of law,

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<v Speaker 2>if you're opposing the Jewish State, you're opposing the Jewish people.

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<v Speaker 2>And if you're opposing the Jewish people, you're doing it

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<v Speaker 2>out of some kind of insidious prejudice. Because the reason

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<v Speaker 2>why this arrangement exists and why they're permitted these defensive

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00:26:55.559 --> 00:27:05.279
<v Speaker 2>structures that lack precedent and incomparable iterations with respect to

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<v Speaker 2>other populations, is because the Jewish people are uniquely susceptible

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<v Speaker 2>to violence from others. So there's a whole set of

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<v Speaker 2>epistemic priors. And I'm not offering legitimacy to this perspective

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00:27:19.920 --> 00:27:25.359
<v Speaker 2>because it's insane. But the reason why these polemicists invoke

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<v Speaker 2>that conceptual vocabulary is for this reason, and that's important understand.

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<v Speaker 2>And world opinion, I mean, obviously excluding the East Bloc,

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<v Speaker 2>but you know, during the Cold War, it was the

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<v Speaker 2>opinion of the free world, that is what was considered

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<v Speaker 2>valid precedent. And then when the wall came down, obviously

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<v Speaker 2>that became global president everybody in the Free world, as

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00:27:58.799 --> 00:28:01.519
<v Speaker 2>it was called. I mean, there were objections here and there,

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<v Speaker 2>particularly among some carely sing with personages, but there wasn't

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00:28:06.160 --> 00:28:10.079
<v Speaker 2>some formal protest from the Bond government or from the

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<v Speaker 2>London government, or from Washington or something. So that's just

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<v Speaker 2>what stood, you know. Iikeman pled not guilty to each count,

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<v Speaker 2>but he qualified it. He said, I'm not guilty in

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<v Speaker 2>the sense of the indictment, and interestingly, the judge didn't

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<v Speaker 2>initially question him what he meant by that. Iikman's lawyer,

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<v Speaker 2>abiding the same convention as Nuremberg and the Doctout trials,

325
00:28:52.640 --> 00:28:56.160
<v Speaker 2>Iikman was allowed to select counsel of his choice, and

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<v Speaker 2>the Israeli government paid him for his time and flew

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<v Speaker 2>him out there but that's really where due process ended,

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<v Speaker 2>just like a Nuremberg. But Iikeram his lawyer was a

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00:29:10.720 --> 00:29:18.240
<v Speaker 2>man named Robert Servadis, who is native the Cologne, and

330
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<v Speaker 2>he was a heavy hitter. But what he explained to

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<v Speaker 2>the court later when the court asked, what did your

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<v Speaker 2>client mean by this, Servadis said, Aikman feels guilty before God,

333
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<v Speaker 2>but not before the law. And whatever Iikman did or

334
00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:40.599
<v Speaker 2>whatever he ordered, first of all, Servadis said, Iikman didn't

335
00:29:40.680 --> 00:29:43.599
<v Speaker 2>murder anybody. Ikman's never murdered a Jewish person or a

336
00:29:43.640 --> 00:29:50.240
<v Speaker 2>non Jewish person or any person. So he objected on

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00:29:50.799 --> 00:29:54.680
<v Speaker 2>substance of grounds to Iikman being accused of murder. If

338
00:29:54.759 --> 00:29:57.559
<v Speaker 2>you wanted to accuse him of conspiracy, fine, will fight

339
00:29:57.599 --> 00:30:03.279
<v Speaker 2>that charge. But produced one instance, produce any inculinary evidence,

340
00:30:03.400 --> 00:30:07.880
<v Speaker 2>documentary or direct testimonial, anything else of Iikman murdering anybody.

341
00:30:08.279 --> 00:30:11.359
<v Speaker 2>And interestingly, the court the prosecution tried to do that

342
00:30:11.480 --> 00:30:17.960
<v Speaker 2>and they couldn't. What they came up with was during

343
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<v Speaker 2>the occupation of what's now Serbia and parts of Boston,

344
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<v Speaker 2>Herzegovina abudding, what was the ndah Iikeman as an sd man.

345
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<v Speaker 2>It was within his purview to be responsible. That leaves

346
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<v Speaker 2>in a you know, at least in the capacity of

347
00:30:59.640 --> 00:31:02.480
<v Speaker 2>at least in the advisory capacity on how to how

348
00:31:02.519 --> 00:31:07.839
<v Speaker 2>to handle anti partisan efforts. So there's a memo that

349
00:31:08.039 --> 00:31:12.680
<v Speaker 2>Aikman signed off on incidents to the minutes of a

350
00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:19.119
<v Speaker 2>meeting where he suggested continuing a policy a decimation where

351
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<v Speaker 2>for every German soldier killed, hostages would be murdered. You know,

352
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<v Speaker 2>the hostages in the instant case being ethnic Serbs and

353
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<v Speaker 2>Jews who were presumed to be sympathetic to the Chetniks

354
00:31:37.319 --> 00:31:44.920
<v Speaker 2>and the Communists. And that was what they came up with, saying, see,

355
00:31:45.160 --> 00:31:49.000
<v Speaker 2>Eichman was capable of murder at least capable of it,

356
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<v Speaker 2>which was trivial in the context, not just because of

357
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<v Speaker 2>the gravity of what they were alleging, but you know

358
00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:05.440
<v Speaker 2>it it suggests a real it. So just that even

359
00:32:05.480 --> 00:32:15.279
<v Speaker 2>within the arbitrary parameters of the court in Jerusalem where

360
00:32:17.680 --> 00:32:20.240
<v Speaker 2>a show trial was being held. In the purest sense,

361
00:32:21.079 --> 00:32:26.079
<v Speaker 2>Servadis was a serious guy. He attacked where he could,

362
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<v Speaker 2>and he made the prosecution what foolish where he could.

363
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<v Speaker 2>But to bring it back, Iikman's position was that anything

364
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<v Speaker 2>he did or didn't do in his role as an

365
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<v Speaker 2>over stump and field of the SS serving the s

366
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<v Speaker 2>D in ther Sha. These were acts of state, So

367
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<v Speaker 2>healing him into court for murder and grants of acts

368
00:33:00.640 --> 00:33:07.759
<v Speaker 2>of state would be like hailing Curtis LeMay into court

369
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<v Speaker 2>and charging him with one hundred thousand counts of murder

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<v Speaker 2>for firebombing Tokyo. And as Servadas said, mister Aikman is

371
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<v Speaker 2>here because he committed acts for which you are decorated

372
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<v Speaker 2>if you win, and you go to the gallows if

373
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<v Speaker 2>you lose, which was true, which is why as well,

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<v Speaker 2>this sort of narrative of the Vansi conference becomes so relevant.

375
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<v Speaker 2>That wasn't particularly emphasized here, but what was is very interesting,

376
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<v Speaker 2>and I can get into that in terms of the

377
00:33:59.039 --> 00:34:12.920
<v Speaker 2>evidence presented, both particularly direct testimony. But the way that

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<v Speaker 2>the International Military Tribunal fifteen years before had gotten around

379
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<v Speaker 2>this challenge was, as I think we've discussed in earlier episodes,

380
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<v Speaker 2>they alleged, well, this wasn't a normal government and these

381
00:34:28.519 --> 00:34:33.400
<v Speaker 2>weren't act committed pursuing to exigencies of war. This was

382
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<v Speaker 2>a criminal conspiracy and from inception, the raison detra of

383
00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:44.000
<v Speaker 2>the German Reich was to murder the Jewish race, and

384
00:34:44.039 --> 00:34:47.440
<v Speaker 2>that's really the only reason it existed. And the Van

385
00:34:47.519 --> 00:34:54.519
<v Speaker 2>Si Conference was the formalization of that intended purpose, manifest

386
00:34:54.639 --> 00:35:03.840
<v Speaker 2>as a conspiracy by key actors in the executive branch

387
00:35:04.079 --> 00:35:10.519
<v Speaker 2>of the National Socialist Party state. That's an incredibly specious argument,

388
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<v Speaker 2>and in the normal court, I don't even think you

389
00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:18.519
<v Speaker 2>would be admissible. Generally, I'm not gonna bore everybody with

390
00:35:19.599 --> 00:35:25.519
<v Speaker 2>evidentiary rules and the nuances generally at criminal law, and

391
00:35:25.559 --> 00:35:29.519
<v Speaker 2>there are I'm saying generally, because there's nuances every state,

392
00:35:29.719 --> 00:35:34.639
<v Speaker 2>and then there's the federal system too, But generally what

393
00:35:34.760 --> 00:35:41.400
<v Speaker 2>is admissible is evidence of plan, motive, design, in choate

394
00:35:41.960 --> 00:35:50.360
<v Speaker 2>aspects that relate to intent. That removes it from being

395
00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:55.159
<v Speaker 2>categorically treated as propensity evidence, which is almost always excluded.

396
00:35:58.000 --> 00:36:04.639
<v Speaker 2>But to extrapolate that convention and say, well, there was

397
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<v Speaker 2>this meeting, and this meeting is demonstrative of the fact

398
00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:21.800
<v Speaker 2>that the cordiological purpose of a state government was to

399
00:36:21.840 --> 00:36:27.199
<v Speaker 2>carry out a criminal act at massive scale, owing to

400
00:36:31.880 --> 00:36:39.519
<v Speaker 2>nothing beyond malice and perverse moral frailty. You know, like

401
00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:43.039
<v Speaker 2>I said, I can't it's hard me to put myself

402
00:36:43.079 --> 00:36:45.119
<v Speaker 2>in the position of a judge, because I really don't

403
00:36:45.159 --> 00:36:53.239
<v Speaker 2>have any respect for judges, and I agree with what

404
00:36:53.360 --> 00:37:01.000
<v Speaker 2>Oliver Wendell Holmes Junior said, judges rendered decisions based on

405
00:37:01.039 --> 00:37:07.239
<v Speaker 2>the political climate and a little else. At the same time,

406
00:37:08.920 --> 00:37:11.000
<v Speaker 2>I'd be curious as to how an argument like that

407
00:37:11.000 --> 00:37:15.079
<v Speaker 2>would be structured. Assuming it was, you know, an issue

408
00:37:15.079 --> 00:37:21.199
<v Speaker 2>of first impression, I'd probably let it pass. But I

409
00:37:21.199 --> 00:37:27.960
<v Speaker 2>I've got sympathy for the devil, you know. But that's uh,

410
00:37:29.239 --> 00:37:32.639
<v Speaker 2>you know, this is highly significant. It's not it's not

411
00:37:32.719 --> 00:37:40.159
<v Speaker 2>just a question of lawyer ball and word games. And

412
00:37:41.320 --> 00:37:47.239
<v Speaker 2>Aikman's trial was a show trial in two sentss was

413
00:37:47.280 --> 00:37:53.119
<v Speaker 2>a show trial in the obvious since and that it

414
00:37:53.159 --> 00:37:58.840
<v Speaker 2>was ideological theater who passed off as jurisprudence. But also

415
00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:09.199
<v Speaker 2>this was the days of international news, you know, so

416
00:38:09.960 --> 00:38:15.719
<v Speaker 2>people weren't seeing live what was happening in Jerusalem because

417
00:38:15.719 --> 00:38:19.400
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen sixty one there weren't these the satellite feeds

418
00:38:19.480 --> 00:38:23.000
<v Speaker 2>that facilitated that wasn't perfected yet. And then a few

419
00:38:23.039 --> 00:38:27.440
<v Speaker 2>years later when it was, it was it was an

420
00:38:27.559 --> 00:38:32.840
<v Speaker 2>arduous process. It was Elvis's Aloha from Hawaii that I

421
00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:38.599
<v Speaker 2>it was one of the first mass broadcast satellite events

422
00:38:39.199 --> 00:38:42.519
<v Speaker 2>all of this planet. But on the evening news people

423
00:38:42.559 --> 00:38:47.039
<v Speaker 2>were seeing footage from I coming on trial, and legal

424
00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:50.079
<v Speaker 2>experts were weighing in on what was happening, you know,

425
00:38:50.840 --> 00:38:55.320
<v Speaker 2>And that's substantially that's that's a whole different animal then

426
00:38:56.639 --> 00:39:00.320
<v Speaker 2>going to the movie theater in ninety forty seven saying

427
00:39:00.400 --> 00:39:03.559
<v Speaker 2>movie tote news clips of of you know, they're five

428
00:39:03.599 --> 00:39:06.480
<v Speaker 2>seconds long of Herman gearing on the stand, when you

429
00:39:06.679 --> 00:39:09.679
<v Speaker 2>can't even hear his testimony. There's just you know, a

430
00:39:11.039 --> 00:39:15.239
<v Speaker 2>voiceover as it were, you know, offering color or proffering

431
00:39:15.280 --> 00:39:23.920
<v Speaker 2>color commentary. So there was the Jerusalem Court had a

432
00:39:23.960 --> 00:39:28.800
<v Speaker 2>tougher road to hoe. And also Iikman was the only

433
00:39:29.559 --> 00:39:36.960
<v Speaker 2>defendant on deck. It couldn't the bait and switch wasn't

434
00:39:37.000 --> 00:39:44.800
<v Speaker 2>possible whereby you know, if if the prosecuting attorney was

435
00:39:44.920 --> 00:39:48.400
<v Speaker 2>best at on you know, by a witness, they could

436
00:39:48.440 --> 00:39:52.519
<v Speaker 2>shift their attention to a weaker link and the proverbial

437
00:39:52.639 --> 00:39:57.280
<v Speaker 2>chain the leg was possible at at Nuremberg and we

438
00:39:57.280 --> 00:40:00.599
<v Speaker 2>had to talk on stuff, you know, so they that too.

439
00:40:00.639 --> 00:40:06.239
<v Speaker 2>And also the social engineering regime hadn't I mean, yeah,

440
00:40:06.280 --> 00:40:10.440
<v Speaker 2>a lot of New Deal propaganda had had an incredibly

441
00:40:10.480 --> 00:40:17.320
<v Speaker 2>toxic effect, and already and American public opinion had been

442
00:40:17.320 --> 00:40:24.039
<v Speaker 2>substantially warped. But this process hadn't really come to fruition yet.

443
00:40:24.239 --> 00:40:26.760
<v Speaker 2>And there's a lot of people who either on to

444
00:40:26.880 --> 00:40:31.519
<v Speaker 2>social prejudice or because they were politically sophisticated, didn't particularly

445
00:40:31.559 --> 00:40:36.800
<v Speaker 2>like Jews, didn't like the state of Israel, didn't think

446
00:40:36.920 --> 00:40:41.119
<v Speaker 2>particularly considering that the Cold War was absolutely raging then

447
00:40:41.199 --> 00:40:47.280
<v Speaker 2>that World War two is some great thing. So there

448
00:40:47.320 --> 00:40:51.400
<v Speaker 2>was something of a delicate minuet here. And back then,

449
00:40:52.039 --> 00:40:59.599
<v Speaker 2>unlike today, Zionis propaganda was pretty sophisticated. It wasn't You

450
00:40:59.679 --> 00:41:02.599
<v Speaker 2>didn't have him noxious idiots like Mark Levin running around

451
00:41:02.639 --> 00:41:06.400
<v Speaker 2>acting like some their Sturmer caricature. You know, it's pretty

452
00:41:06.440 --> 00:41:10.360
<v Speaker 2>slickly presented. And if you get on YouTube, I'll try

453
00:41:10.400 --> 00:41:12.639
<v Speaker 2>and put together what I think are sort of key

454
00:41:12.719 --> 00:41:17.320
<v Speaker 2>clips that are available on the Kland trail. Obviously, these

455
00:41:17.360 --> 00:41:19.920
<v Speaker 2>guys and these women were kind of out front representing

456
00:41:19.960 --> 00:41:21.920
<v Speaker 2>these really government like a lot of them have heavy

457
00:41:22.400 --> 00:41:26.599
<v Speaker 2>European or Middle Eastern accidents, but they're well put together.

458
00:41:27.079 --> 00:41:30.079
<v Speaker 2>They I mean, they look ethnic, but they don't look

459
00:41:30.119 --> 00:41:34.559
<v Speaker 2>particularly alien. You know, it was very it was clear

460
00:41:34.639 --> 00:41:37.519
<v Speaker 2>that like who they selected to be on camera, things

461
00:41:37.559 --> 00:41:43.119
<v Speaker 2>like that. You know, obviously they're trying to telegraph See,

462
00:41:43.159 --> 00:41:47.119
<v Speaker 2>these are people like you. They're they're they're respectable white

463
00:41:47.159 --> 00:41:50.119
<v Speaker 2>people who share the same habits you do. They they

464
00:41:50.159 --> 00:41:52.320
<v Speaker 2>just have a different religion. You know, all of that.

465
00:41:53.039 --> 00:41:57.320
<v Speaker 1>We still we still suffer that today. It's there's a

466
00:41:57.400 --> 00:42:00.199
<v Speaker 1>reason why Yahoo went to school in the United States.

467
00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:04.360
<v Speaker 2>Oh no, of course, but a guy like Mark Levin

468
00:42:04.440 --> 00:42:07.440
<v Speaker 2>doesn't exactly relate to Middle America well or make Jews

469
00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:12.119
<v Speaker 2>look good. Yeah like that. I mean that was my point.

470
00:42:12.519 --> 00:42:17.599
<v Speaker 2>Like back then, some guy working for the AGC or

471
00:42:17.599 --> 00:42:23.079
<v Speaker 2>the A D. L even or some uh or some

472
00:42:23.119 --> 00:42:28.159
<v Speaker 2>guy or some lady, uh, you know, who is deciding

473
00:42:28.199 --> 00:42:31.239
<v Speaker 2>who from the nesset would appear on on on the

474
00:42:31.280 --> 00:42:35.159
<v Speaker 2>five o'clock news. They they'd have been mortified if if

475
00:42:35.159 --> 00:42:39.079
<v Speaker 2>some guy like Mark Levin was was you know, acting

476
00:42:39.159 --> 00:42:43.639
<v Speaker 2>like that. You know that, That's what I meant. Yeah,

477
00:42:43.679 --> 00:42:49.519
<v Speaker 2>the this uh, the sort of cycling of elite from

478
00:42:49.519 --> 00:42:54.639
<v Speaker 2>the Jewish state to America and the deep interdependence there.

479
00:42:55.119 --> 00:42:56.599
<v Speaker 2>You know, we were talking about earther with a fella.

480
00:42:56.679 --> 00:43:00.880
<v Speaker 2>It's like why why why are IDF people training you know,

481
00:43:01.400 --> 00:43:06.239
<v Speaker 2>the Minneapolis Police Department. You know, I mean stuff like that.

482
00:43:05.400 --> 00:43:11.559
<v Speaker 2>It's really very very on the nose. But I and

483
00:43:11.599 --> 00:43:14.039
<v Speaker 2>what's interesting too, this I'll bring it back because this

484
00:43:14.119 --> 00:43:17.480
<v Speaker 2>is truly tangential. But you know, the on the nose.

485
00:43:17.519 --> 00:43:18.800
<v Speaker 1>I see what you did there.

486
00:43:20.039 --> 00:43:23.599
<v Speaker 2>That was actually I didn't actually intend it as a

487
00:43:23.639 --> 00:43:27.920
<v Speaker 2>double entendre, but since but yeah, I'll take credit for it.

488
00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:33.199
<v Speaker 2>That's funny. But Ariel Sharon, I believe he was an

489
00:43:33.239 --> 00:43:37.760
<v Speaker 2>Oriental jew. His family was from Palestine. You know. He

490
00:43:37.880 --> 00:43:45.039
<v Speaker 2>wasn't an ashkenasm or or Staffardine. And he he he

491
00:43:45.360 --> 00:43:49.079
<v Speaker 2>wasn't one of these guys from Brighton Beach, you know,

492
00:43:49.159 --> 00:43:56.719
<v Speaker 2>who moved the Jewish State after Plan D had had

493
00:43:56.800 --> 00:44:00.719
<v Speaker 2>genocided the coveted territory. And that was gonna partially rare,

494
00:44:02.159 --> 00:44:08.360
<v Speaker 2>at least among the core of what became the political

495
00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:11.800
<v Speaker 2>culture of the zion Of State. You there weren't a

496
00:44:11.800 --> 00:44:18.760
<v Speaker 2>lot of those guys, And I find that interesting mostly

497
00:44:18.960 --> 00:44:22.320
<v Speaker 2>down I can't remember. He might have had a similar background,

498
00:44:23.320 --> 00:44:27.239
<v Speaker 2>but it's the exception. You know. I just find that

499
00:44:27.320 --> 00:44:30.840
<v Speaker 2>kind of thing interesting. Most people would probably find that

500
00:44:30.880 --> 00:44:41.199
<v Speaker 2>apurplete nothing. But in any event, uh Ikman had uh

501
00:44:41.599 --> 00:44:46.599
<v Speaker 2>he had more support than people might think. You know,

502
00:44:46.639 --> 00:44:49.480
<v Speaker 2>and again, Ikman the man, he didn't come out as

503
00:44:49.519 --> 00:44:51.599
<v Speaker 2>picking a villainous. He came off as kind of nerdy

504
00:44:53.800 --> 00:45:00.280
<v Speaker 2>and almost a caricature of the meticulous German. But you know,

505
00:45:00.320 --> 00:45:04.000
<v Speaker 2>he at the same time, he didn't come off as

506
00:45:04.039 --> 00:45:16.679
<v Speaker 2>particularly sympathetic or charismatic either. There's a very well renowned

507
00:45:18.119 --> 00:45:27.800
<v Speaker 2>French attorney Ramone and Ramon Jeffree. I'm probably butchering that pronunciation.

508
00:45:28.039 --> 00:45:33.039
<v Speaker 2>But he was a really interesting guy, and he was

509
00:45:33.079 --> 00:45:39.079
<v Speaker 2>a true advocate in the sense that is supposed to

510
00:45:39.199 --> 00:45:41.960
<v Speaker 2>characterize the men who sit at bar as defense council.

511
00:45:43.119 --> 00:45:48.840
<v Speaker 2>He defended a bunch of there's a there's a right

512
00:45:48.880 --> 00:45:55.719
<v Speaker 2>wing fascist militia in France. That was some of these

513
00:45:55.760 --> 00:45:59.159
<v Speaker 2>guys were on the side of the Reich. Some of

514
00:45:59.199 --> 00:46:02.719
<v Speaker 2>them weren't. They were sort of like their ideology was

515
00:46:02.760 --> 00:46:07.440
<v Speaker 2>sort of like the action Francis had been under morass,

516
00:46:07.480 --> 00:46:11.199
<v Speaker 2>but obviously the action of Francie didn't have a direct

517
00:46:11.320 --> 00:46:16.239
<v Speaker 2>action capability. But these guys, uh, these guys are real

518
00:46:16.280 --> 00:46:18.800
<v Speaker 2>bomb throwers. And I mean basically they were odds with

519
00:46:18.800 --> 00:46:21.079
<v Speaker 2>with both most of them odds with the Reich and

520
00:46:21.159 --> 00:46:26.840
<v Speaker 2>the Allies. Obviously, but some of them are, you know,

521
00:46:27.800 --> 00:46:34.760
<v Speaker 2>national socialists. Jeffrey came to the defense of these guys

522
00:46:34.760 --> 00:46:41.599
<v Speaker 2>and defended many of them pro bono, and he made

523
00:46:42.559 --> 00:46:47.559
<v Speaker 2>the case in the court of world opinion, which is

524
00:46:47.599 --> 00:46:51.639
<v Speaker 2>an important point, not just in terms of the due

525
00:46:51.679 --> 00:46:55.239
<v Speaker 2>process of his clients in the era, but as a

526
00:46:55.280 --> 00:46:59.239
<v Speaker 2>matter of historical fact. There was no VC France. There

527
00:46:59.320 --> 00:47:03.239
<v Speaker 2>was France. It's the government in VCI was the government

528
00:47:03.320 --> 00:47:09.679
<v Speaker 2>of France. Batan had massed support. De Gaulle had no support.

529
00:47:11.000 --> 00:47:15.880
<v Speaker 2>And this idea that Batan with some client of Adolf

530
00:47:16.000 --> 00:47:20.400
<v Speaker 2>Hitler Baton. I don't know how many times Batan met

531
00:47:20.440 --> 00:47:28.719
<v Speaker 2>Adolf Hitler once and but for our purposes, I mean,

532
00:47:28.760 --> 00:47:31.000
<v Speaker 2>that's a discussion another day. I've written some about that,

533
00:47:31.199 --> 00:47:35.280
<v Speaker 2>but I don't think we're ever discussed it on your platforms.

534
00:47:35.599 --> 00:47:39.440
<v Speaker 2>But Jeffree, that was the crux of his defense was

535
00:47:39.880 --> 00:47:46.920
<v Speaker 2>not not just of these fascist partisans in the UH

536
00:47:48.519 --> 00:47:52.119
<v Speaker 2>you know, prior to the prior to the ascendency the

537
00:47:52.119 --> 00:47:56.039
<v Speaker 2>Batan government and the capitulation to the Germany, but the

538
00:47:56.079 --> 00:48:00.559
<v Speaker 2>guys who served the Baton's regime. You know how you

539
00:48:01.039 --> 00:48:03.239
<v Speaker 2>can't you can't bring these guys up on charges for

540
00:48:03.400 --> 00:48:06.159
<v Speaker 2>treason when they were serving the government of France at war.

541
00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:11.719
<v Speaker 2>That's perverse as a matter of law. And this idea

542
00:48:11.760 --> 00:48:14.280
<v Speaker 2>that there's a man in exile and de Gaulle, who

543
00:48:14.320 --> 00:48:18.079
<v Speaker 2>nobody'd ever heard of, who is quite literally a client

544
00:48:18.440 --> 00:48:23.199
<v Speaker 2>of a foreign power, declaring himself to be the rightful

545
00:48:24.599 --> 00:48:33.960
<v Speaker 2>president of France. You know, that's that's absurd. And Jeffree

546
00:48:34.000 --> 00:48:37.360
<v Speaker 2>was respected as a one of the pre eminent legal

547
00:48:37.400 --> 00:48:40.559
<v Speaker 2>minds in Europe, and he'd actually sat in an advisory

548
00:48:40.599 --> 00:48:47.760
<v Speaker 2>capacity and the Allied Control Council during uh the Nuremberg

549
00:48:47.880 --> 00:48:55.320
<v Speaker 2>trials and then subsequent. His old point was there wasn't

550
00:48:56.320 --> 00:48:59.719
<v Speaker 2>there was anither personal nor subject matter jurisdiction over Eichmann

551
00:49:01.599 --> 00:49:06.000
<v Speaker 2>if he's a the state of Israel. And he said,

552
00:49:06.039 --> 00:49:09.239
<v Speaker 2>even if there was, Israel had a claim to jurisdiction.

553
00:49:12.960 --> 00:49:21.000
<v Speaker 2>The correct way to proceed, according to convention and international

554
00:49:21.079 --> 00:49:24.360
<v Speaker 2>law can ever be compulsory, because that's a logical fallacy,

555
00:49:24.360 --> 00:49:31.079
<v Speaker 2>among other things. But convention is the source of legitimacy,

556
00:49:31.199 --> 00:49:40.280
<v Speaker 2>particularly we're talking about penal jeopardy, where you know, somebody's

557
00:49:40.280 --> 00:49:45.239
<v Speaker 2>on trial for their life, but also just in terms

558
00:49:45.239 --> 00:49:57.239
<v Speaker 2>of due process with respect to any course authority. You know,

559
00:49:57.320 --> 00:50:00.960
<v Speaker 2>the correct protocol would have been to appeal to Argentina

560
00:50:01.079 --> 00:50:09.280
<v Speaker 2>for extradition, and the Israeli rebuttal was that, well, Argentina

561
00:50:09.320 --> 00:50:13.679
<v Speaker 2>famously refuses to extradite people. Okay, well, why is Israel

562
00:50:13.719 --> 00:50:16.280
<v Speaker 2>have jurisdiction over the man of the subject matter? Anyway,

563
00:50:17.039 --> 00:50:20.039
<v Speaker 2>there was no Jewish state between ninety and thirty three

564
00:50:20.079 --> 00:50:23.360
<v Speaker 2>and ninety forty five, and a state. First of all,

565
00:50:23.360 --> 00:50:28.159
<v Speaker 2>you can't you can't be held liable for committing a

566
00:50:28.320 --> 00:50:31.840
<v Speaker 2>for committing crimes against an ethnic group or a race,

567
00:50:34.400 --> 00:50:41.719
<v Speaker 2>even if that were possible. Israel isn't the representative of

568
00:50:41.840 --> 00:50:53.239
<v Speaker 2>Jewish people the jury for all time. And finally, venue matters.

569
00:50:54.039 --> 00:51:00.079
<v Speaker 2>The alleged offenses were committed in Poland and Belarus, in

570
00:51:00.239 --> 00:51:06.800
<v Speaker 2>Ukraine and Russia. You know why why is an Iikman

571
00:51:06.920 --> 00:51:10.519
<v Speaker 2>being hailed into court in Poland? You know? No, none

572
00:51:10.559 --> 00:51:15.760
<v Speaker 2>of this is precedented. None of this can be rationalized

573
00:51:16.199 --> 00:51:23.800
<v Speaker 2>by appeal to precedent or common sense, you know. And finally,

574
00:51:27.000 --> 00:51:37.440
<v Speaker 2>Jeffree didn't emphasize this as strongly as Aikman's council did.

575
00:51:38.320 --> 00:51:44.639
<v Speaker 2>But Jeffree said, do we really want to start talking

576
00:51:44.679 --> 00:51:48.880
<v Speaker 2>about where the ex of state doctrine ends and where

577
00:51:48.880 --> 00:51:55.840
<v Speaker 2>a liability for homicide begins. When you know, the Israeli

578
00:51:55.920 --> 00:52:01.239
<v Speaker 2>state was founded quite literally in mass ethnic cleansing, and

579
00:52:03.639 --> 00:52:08.679
<v Speaker 2>the US Department of Justice has proffered the equivalent of

580
00:52:08.679 --> 00:52:18.400
<v Speaker 2>an amica'st curate on behalf of the Jerusalem Court for

581
00:52:18.559 --> 00:52:23.280
<v Speaker 2>this back to their prosecution of Iikman. When this is

582
00:52:23.320 --> 00:52:27.239
<v Speaker 2>the same government, that being the isaaia's government that wage

583
00:52:27.360 --> 00:52:33.960
<v Speaker 2>nuclear war against Japanese civilians, you know, that raises some

584
00:52:34.079 --> 00:52:41.239
<v Speaker 2>questions that people probably don't want to address in these terms.

585
00:52:43.239 --> 00:52:53.800
<v Speaker 2>But again, the rebuttal was was an appeal to conceptual

586
00:52:53.840 --> 00:53:01.199
<v Speaker 2>prejudices and epistemic priors about the unique and vulnerable situation

587
00:53:01.400 --> 00:53:07.079
<v Speaker 2>of the Jewish people and the existential threats they face

588
00:53:09.239 --> 00:53:18.559
<v Speaker 2>based on immutable traits that they possess and irrational animosity

589
00:53:18.639 --> 00:53:26.239
<v Speaker 2>that culminates in homicidal programs periodically. There's a whole series

590
00:53:26.280 --> 00:53:33.039
<v Speaker 2>of assumptions one must accept in order to consider the

591
00:53:33.119 --> 00:53:41.239
<v Speaker 2>Israeli case for jurisdictions overre Aikmen to be legitimate. But again,

592
00:53:42.119 --> 00:53:46.199
<v Speaker 2>the Aikman trial was the litmus test of these things,

593
00:53:46.679 --> 00:53:53.599
<v Speaker 2>and that's why it's significant and arguably in discrete terms

594
00:53:53.599 --> 00:53:57.199
<v Speaker 2>of respect to the fortunes of the Jewish state. It's

595
00:53:57.239 --> 00:54:02.280
<v Speaker 2>absolutely more significant than the Nuremberg Trial. Obviously the former

596
00:54:02.440 --> 00:54:09.480
<v Speaker 2>facilitated the latter, but this is basically the appeal. This

597
00:54:09.559 --> 00:54:14.880
<v Speaker 2>is what's being relied upon when you hear about the

598
00:54:14.960 --> 00:54:18.360
<v Speaker 2>special status of the Jewish state or the right to

599
00:54:18.519 --> 00:54:24.119
<v Speaker 2>exist of a Jewish state. This is what it's relying upon.

600
00:54:25.639 --> 00:54:31.920
<v Speaker 2>So I assume people who are into my content don't

601
00:54:31.960 --> 00:54:35.400
<v Speaker 2>do things like ask questions like why does this matter?

602
00:54:35.480 --> 00:54:39.920
<v Speaker 2>Because you wouldn't. You wouldn't be interested in this as

603
00:54:39.960 --> 00:54:43.519
<v Speaker 2>a terror if you had those sorts of objections to it.

604
00:54:44.280 --> 00:54:49.599
<v Speaker 2>But if anybody is on deck harbors those concerns, well,

605
00:54:49.679 --> 00:54:52.599
<v Speaker 2>this is why it matters. Okay, this is why it's

606
00:54:52.800 --> 00:54:58.079
<v Speaker 2>contextually significant and very concrete capacities, not just as some

607
00:54:58.119 --> 00:55:19.480
<v Speaker 2>sort of curiosity. And that's you know, and that that

608
00:55:19.599 --> 00:55:22.000
<v Speaker 2>so that goes to show too. I mean, I can't imagine,

609
00:55:22.039 --> 00:55:26.400
<v Speaker 2>I mean these days you that there wouldn't you wouldn't

610
00:55:26.400 --> 00:55:30.199
<v Speaker 2>find uh a man who had the kind of prestige

611
00:55:30.400 --> 00:55:37.000
<v Speaker 2>of Jeffrey taking such a position contu the Jewish State.

612
00:55:37.639 --> 00:55:43.440
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you'll find Europeans who, to their credit, the

613
00:55:43.599 --> 00:55:51.440
<v Speaker 2>attack the Jewish state for you know, it's uh, it's

614
00:55:51.800 --> 00:55:59.159
<v Speaker 2>it's racialism, and it's uh, it's hostility to other populations

615
00:55:59.199 --> 00:56:03.920
<v Speaker 2>and the category violence that avails them too. But that's

616
00:56:05.159 --> 00:56:08.960
<v Speaker 2>that's mostly framed, uh as a matter of you know,

617
00:56:09.000 --> 00:56:12.519
<v Speaker 2>appeal to Nuremberg logic or the or the purported hypocrisy

618
00:56:12.559 --> 00:56:15.960
<v Speaker 2>of the Jewish state. It's really sort of a token objection.

619
00:56:16.000 --> 00:56:17.679
<v Speaker 2>I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not I'm not

620
00:56:17.719 --> 00:56:23.760
<v Speaker 2>going to be down on people if they're standing up

621
00:56:23.800 --> 00:56:31.480
<v Speaker 2>for our comrades in Palestine or Iran or anywhere else.

622
00:56:32.000 --> 00:56:38.360
<v Speaker 2>But I I think you know what I mean, it's

623
00:56:39.280 --> 00:56:44.039
<v Speaker 2>it's it's a fundamentally different scope and character, and the

624
00:56:44.280 --> 00:56:58.119
<v Speaker 2>motivations are different. The the prosecution also, they had they

625
00:56:58.119 --> 00:57:06.559
<v Speaker 2>had a problem because initially what they were relying upon,

626
00:57:06.639 --> 00:57:10.760
<v Speaker 2>they were relying upon the direct testimony of people who

627
00:57:10.800 --> 00:57:18.760
<v Speaker 2>had been in German concentration camps, and this testimony was

628
00:57:18.840 --> 00:57:24.119
<v Speaker 2>contradictory relative to the factual record. Witnesses were contradicting each other.

629
00:57:27.159 --> 00:57:31.360
<v Speaker 2>There were people testifying about things such as gas chambers

630
00:57:31.400 --> 00:57:37.599
<v Speaker 2>at the ravens Brook or Dachal. And even then, even

631
00:57:37.639 --> 00:57:41.239
<v Speaker 2>within the narratives that were extant and considered to be

632
00:57:42.639 --> 00:57:49.280
<v Speaker 2>historical as well as legal. President. It was stipulated that

633
00:57:49.360 --> 00:57:56.679
<v Speaker 2>you know, there weren't gas chambers at ravens Brook and things. Obviously, Two,

634
00:57:58.039 --> 00:58:03.519
<v Speaker 2>there's the white elephant in the room. If there's a

635
00:58:03.519 --> 00:58:06.079
<v Speaker 2>a witness declaring I was at, I was I was at,

636
00:58:06.159 --> 00:58:08.840
<v Speaker 2>I was at death camp in Meate and this is

637
00:58:08.880 --> 00:58:11.679
<v Speaker 2>what Eikman was directing. If you were at death camp

638
00:58:11.679 --> 00:58:14.679
<v Speaker 2>in meat how are you here? I mean? But was

639
00:58:14.679 --> 00:58:22.639
<v Speaker 2>this the most incommon death camp? Ever? So the prosecution

640
00:58:22.880 --> 00:58:33.239
<v Speaker 2>was charged with calling uh, witnesses who'd served in the

641
00:58:33.400 --> 00:58:38.960
<v Speaker 2>SS and s D, the most prominent of whom are

642
00:58:39.000 --> 00:58:53.000
<v Speaker 2>pretty obviously intelligence assets, are double agents to testify, you know,

643
00:58:53.159 --> 00:59:04.719
<v Speaker 2>contra Iikman and seek to establish liability based on things

644
00:59:04.760 --> 00:59:08.159
<v Speaker 2>like the Einstets group actions they themselves have participated in.

645
00:59:11.599 --> 00:59:18.000
<v Speaker 2>And these guys, uh just you know, there's been a

646
00:59:18.039 --> 00:59:23.880
<v Speaker 2>similar they've been a similar litany of these sorts of

647
00:59:23.920 --> 00:59:31.239
<v Speaker 2>witnesses called to testify against Rudolph Hoiss, who's the common

648
00:59:31.239 --> 00:59:34.599
<v Speaker 2>aunt of Oustwitz Berkanhau. And it was the same kind

649
00:59:34.639 --> 00:59:37.639
<v Speaker 2>of thing. You know, I these are the most evil

650
00:59:37.639 --> 00:59:39.840
<v Speaker 2>men who ever lived in their liars, but you've got

651
00:59:39.840 --> 00:59:45.960
<v Speaker 2>to trust them and relevant to this testimony. And this

652
00:59:46.039 --> 00:59:50.039
<v Speaker 2>is honestly where a lot of these strange claims come from.

653
00:59:51.320 --> 00:59:57.280
<v Speaker 2>The claim specifically, you know, Hitler demanded that we reduced

654
00:59:57.280 --> 01:00:02.039
<v Speaker 2>the population of Slavs to thirty million. Not a single

655
01:00:02.119 --> 01:00:07.000
<v Speaker 2>person has ever said that written that alleged that other

656
01:00:07.079 --> 01:00:13.480
<v Speaker 2>than this bizarre turncoat and probable double agent who testified

657
01:00:13.480 --> 01:00:19.679
<v Speaker 2>against Iikman and somehow, despite admitting to participating in the

658
01:00:19.760 --> 01:00:22.639
<v Speaker 2>murders of tens of thounds of people, was never indicted

659
01:00:22.639 --> 01:00:25.719
<v Speaker 2>for any of these things, you know, and that this

660
01:00:25.840 --> 01:00:27.960
<v Speaker 2>is one example. Can see that parodied all the time

661
01:00:28.000 --> 01:00:32.480
<v Speaker 2>on social media, or there'll be some midwid conservatives saying like, well,

662
01:00:32.519 --> 01:00:35.880
<v Speaker 2>you you're saying it's okay to exterminate Slavs. You you

663
01:00:36.000 --> 01:00:41.599
<v Speaker 2>anti white horrible man who says that. Some some guy

664
01:00:41.599 --> 01:00:47.400
<v Speaker 2>who's a paid witness against against against off Iikman, some

665
01:00:47.440 --> 01:00:53.480
<v Speaker 2>guy who you know, was on the payroll of a

666
01:00:55.360 --> 01:00:58.039
<v Speaker 2>secret intelligence service while he was a serving officer in

667
01:00:58.079 --> 01:01:03.960
<v Speaker 2>the sd I, who is saying these things And you're

668
01:01:04.079 --> 01:01:06.760
<v Speaker 2>just you're just supposed to accept this at face value

669
01:01:06.840 --> 01:01:11.360
<v Speaker 2>or something. It's not just boomers either, I know, people

670
01:01:11.440 --> 01:01:14.000
<v Speaker 2>might just wave up like, oh, it's just just boomer people. Shit, No,

671
01:01:14.039 --> 01:01:17.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm talking about like thirty year old guys who know better.

672
01:01:18.039 --> 01:01:21.280
<v Speaker 2>And when they challenge them on these on these grounds,

673
01:01:21.280 --> 01:01:24.360
<v Speaker 2>they'll say, first I'll say I'm an idiot. Then they'll say, quote,

674
01:01:24.400 --> 01:01:28.199
<v Speaker 2>everybody knows this, and what do then mean? Who's everybody?

675
01:01:28.239 --> 01:01:33.199
<v Speaker 2>And what do they know? You know? So in the

676
01:01:33.320 --> 01:01:40.199
<v Speaker 2>rock is deep and in some ways, as I said,

677
01:01:41.480 --> 01:01:46.760
<v Speaker 2>at least uh in the present conditions, that being you know,

678
01:01:47.280 --> 01:01:51.639
<v Speaker 2>life during wartime, you know, even talking heads son, I'm

679
01:01:51.639 --> 01:01:55.239
<v Speaker 2>not making light of it. It's horrible that our Iranian

680
01:01:55.280 --> 01:01:59.639
<v Speaker 2>comrades under assault, but they will prevail. But it's still

681
01:02:00.400 --> 01:02:02.920
<v Speaker 2>it's in all the situations. Not being flippant about it,

682
01:02:03.440 --> 01:02:05.920
<v Speaker 2>but that that's why I wanted to focus on Eichman,

683
01:02:06.400 --> 01:02:09.960
<v Speaker 2>because I think many people don't know this because why

684
01:02:09.960 --> 01:02:11.880
<v Speaker 2>would they. I mean, I know about it because this

685
01:02:11.960 --> 01:02:14.639
<v Speaker 2>is my this is might doing, my wife, These are

686
01:02:14.639 --> 01:02:19.000
<v Speaker 2>my research concentrations. But I need to go another episode

687
01:02:19.039 --> 01:02:20.440
<v Speaker 2>on this because I want to get into the case

688
01:02:20.480 --> 01:02:22.519
<v Speaker 2>and chief against Eichmann and then we can return to

689
01:02:22.679 --> 01:02:24.880
<v Speaker 2>a regular schedule of programming. If that's okay.

690
01:02:26.159 --> 01:02:32.239
<v Speaker 1>Sure. I think one of the the special dispensation for

691
01:02:32.440 --> 01:02:37.239
<v Speaker 1>the Jewish people is Yep. I'm I'm no fan of

692
01:02:37.320 --> 01:02:40.760
<v Speaker 1>Chris Christie, but I think he's like legitimately a funny guy.

693
01:02:41.559 --> 01:02:43.559
<v Speaker 2>And no, he is. And he's also a man so

694
01:02:43.679 --> 01:02:45.760
<v Speaker 2>fat that his last name eat his first name.

695
01:02:48.239 --> 01:02:54.719
<v Speaker 1>But he he tells the story about how the Kushner family,

696
01:02:55.360 --> 01:02:58.639
<v Speaker 1>how he became the enemy of the Kushner family and

697
01:02:58.719 --> 01:03:02.679
<v Speaker 1>it kept him out of the trumpetdministration. And the thing

698
01:03:02.960 --> 01:03:07.079
<v Speaker 1>in that story that I just I will never forget,

699
01:03:07.119 --> 01:03:13.719
<v Speaker 1>I'll take to the grave is when he's Jared Kushner

700
01:03:14.039 --> 01:03:19.639
<v Speaker 1>telling Chris Christie that these charges you had brought up

701
01:03:19.639 --> 01:03:22.840
<v Speaker 1>on my father, they shouldn't have been handled legally. You

702
01:03:22.840 --> 01:03:24.880
<v Speaker 1>should have brought him to the rabbis.

703
01:03:25.440 --> 01:03:30.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Election fraud, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're not talking about

704
01:03:31.440 --> 01:03:34.039
<v Speaker 2>you know, you're talking about some minor text issue or something.

705
01:03:34.760 --> 01:03:39.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, election fraud. There was a tax issue. Extortion.

706
01:03:40.239 --> 01:03:42.400
<v Speaker 2>I mean no, that's I mean a real criminality. It

707
01:03:42.440 --> 01:03:44.519
<v Speaker 2>wasn't just you know, cooking the books a little bit

708
01:03:44.719 --> 01:03:46.760
<v Speaker 2>like unfortunately is kind of the norm.

709
01:03:46.800 --> 01:03:50.960
<v Speaker 1>You know, yeah, I kind of if people you know,

710
01:03:51.840 --> 01:03:54.639
<v Speaker 1>taxation and stuff like that, have a tendency to be like, eh,

711
01:03:54.840 --> 01:03:57.800
<v Speaker 1>is it really a crime. But you know, these other

712
01:03:57.920 --> 01:04:00.519
<v Speaker 1>things that are just when you hear the whole story

713
01:04:00.559 --> 01:04:03.360
<v Speaker 1>of what Kushner did, it's pretty fucking diabolical.

714
01:04:03.840 --> 01:04:05.320
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, they went.

715
01:04:07.519 --> 01:04:10.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, and you're just supposed to overlook it like

716
01:04:11.280 --> 01:04:13.199
<v Speaker 1>what you know, like you know, like I said in

717
01:04:13.239 --> 01:04:16.000
<v Speaker 1>the Jeffrey Epsteine Files, you know, the let the Goya

718
01:04:16.159 --> 01:04:17.039
<v Speaker 1>live in the real world.

719
01:04:17.760 --> 01:04:23.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly. Well, no, that's why I got film people.

720
01:04:23.199 --> 01:04:27.519
<v Speaker 2>I know with al Pacino. You know, Robert Redford directed it,

721
01:04:27.639 --> 01:04:31.480
<v Speaker 2>and it is actually a really subvert, subversive movie, and

722
01:04:31.679 --> 01:04:33.159
<v Speaker 2>they made a lot of people mad. I got very

723
01:04:33.159 --> 01:04:36.800
<v Speaker 2>limited distribution, but I remember when it came out, like

724
01:04:36.840 --> 01:04:39.880
<v Speaker 2>Pacino would start is The Merchant of Venice around the

725
01:04:39.880 --> 01:04:45.480
<v Speaker 2>same time, and al Pacina was awesome, Unlike unlike Faggott, Ritardo,

726
01:04:45.639 --> 01:04:50.960
<v Speaker 2>Robert de Niro, like Pacino actually is an amazing actor,

727
01:04:51.039 --> 01:04:57.039
<v Speaker 2>but he he played Shylock in The Merchant of Venice.

728
01:04:58.400 --> 01:05:00.559
<v Speaker 2>You know, there's a there's kind of a mini Shakespeare

729
01:05:00.559 --> 01:05:04.280
<v Speaker 2>revival in the very early two thousands, asn't she remember.

730
01:05:04.880 --> 01:05:08.039
<v Speaker 2>So Paccino was like Cardlai heat for, you know, making

731
01:05:08.079 --> 01:05:12.159
<v Speaker 2>all these anti submitted movies. But yeah, I high recommend people.

732
01:05:12.199 --> 01:05:18.079
<v Speaker 2>I know, it's a slow burn but it's it's really compelling.

733
01:05:18.159 --> 01:05:22.760
<v Speaker 2>And you know that was just after there was months

734
01:05:22.760 --> 01:05:30.360
<v Speaker 2>after nine to eleven and people who were asking difficult questions.

735
01:05:30.400 --> 01:05:33.400
<v Speaker 2>To be delicate about it, we're absolutely being drowned out

736
01:05:33.440 --> 01:05:36.239
<v Speaker 2>in this kind of sea of war fever and outrage

737
01:05:36.280 --> 01:05:44.480
<v Speaker 2>and mourning. But there were fractures appearing in the facade

738
01:05:44.480 --> 01:05:45.440
<v Speaker 2>and let me put it badly.

739
01:05:47.000 --> 01:05:50.880
<v Speaker 1>Alrighty, So we'll a lot get a part two ready

740
01:05:50.920 --> 01:05:55.400
<v Speaker 1>for this, and I will remind everybody go go to

741
01:05:55.480 --> 01:05:58.159
<v Speaker 1>Thomas's work, go to a sub stack. Thomas and I

742
01:05:58.199 --> 01:06:03.039
<v Speaker 1>have started streaming every Thursday afternoon at one o'clock, one

743
01:06:03.039 --> 01:06:05.840
<v Speaker 1>o'clock Central the real the real time zone.

744
01:06:06.360 --> 01:06:08.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, in the show notes if you would.

745
01:06:09.000 --> 01:06:13.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I will, and uh go to Thomas's substack real

746
01:06:13.360 --> 01:06:18.079
<v Speaker 1>Thomas seven seven seven dot substack dot com and Thomas

747
01:06:18.159 --> 01:06:21.840
<v Speaker 1>seven seven seven dot com. The t is a seven

748
01:06:22.199 --> 01:06:25.559
<v Speaker 1>and you can connect to him there, and yeah, find

749
01:06:25.599 --> 01:06:27.079
<v Speaker 1>him on substack. It is probably the best way to

750
01:06:27.119 --> 01:06:28.599
<v Speaker 1>get in touch with him.

751
01:06:28.679 --> 01:06:30.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, yeah, thank you, Lenny

752
01:06:31.079 --> 01:06:32.599
<v Speaker 1>All right, thanks Thomas, appreciate it.