Speaker 1: Dark Cast Network. Indie pods with a dark side.
Speaker 2: Dark Cast Network come to the Dark Side of podcasts.
Speaker 3: We have cookies, wookers, love cookers. Hey, they're Rainbow Warriors.
Speaker 2: I'm CJ host to Beyond the Rainbow True Crimes of
Speaker 2: the lgbt My episodes focus on crimes committed by and
Speaker 2: against the LGBTQ community. I've covered cases you probably have
Speaker 2: heard of, such as Matthew Shepherd, Brandon Tina, and the
Speaker 2: Orlando Pulse nightclub massacre, as well as some lesser known
Speaker 2: cases like the murder of Ray Haynish, the Australian gay
Speaker 2: beat murders, and the suspicious disappearance of Lisa Lynne Stone.
Speaker 2: I cover cases brought to me by listeners like Penny Brummer,
Speaker 2: who I believe was wrongfully convicted, taboo cases such as
Speaker 2: lesbian corrective rape and murder in South Africa, and pray
Speaker 2: the gay away camps. I discuss gay serial killers, women
Speaker 2: who pretend to be men to hook up with other women,
Speaker 2: and trans murders. I'm opinionated and uncensored. I know I'm
Speaker 2: not everyone's cup of tea, but surely I'm someone shot
Speaker 2: at tequila. No matter what your gender or orientation in
Speaker 2: life might be. Please join me as I tackle rainbow
Speaker 2: crimes in search of unicorn justice. Remember, it's not a
Speaker 2: crime to be gay unless you're a murderer.
Speaker 1: On his ways. Devil is on his way.
Speaker 3: Devil is on his way.
Speaker 1: Mother, the devil gonna.
Speaker 3: Make you pay. Fall to your knees.
Speaker 1: Devil is on his way. Fall to your knees. Devil
Speaker 1: gonna make you pay, fall to your knees. Devil.
Speaker 3: Hey, y'all, welcome back to Mountain murderss on Heather.
Speaker 1: And I'm dealing. Hey, Hey, what's up girl?
Speaker 3: How's it going?
Speaker 1: Doing good?
Speaker 3: Happy Mayday?
Speaker 1: Yeah, May Day, May Day.
Speaker 3: This podcast has been going down for a while.
Speaker 1: I've been waiting all year for that May the Fourth
Speaker 1: be with You memes. They're coming soon, right, Yeah, May
Speaker 1: the Fourth be with you?
Speaker 3: And then justin Timberlake, it's kinda be May.
Speaker 1: And then directly after that, of course, is Cinco Demayo, right,
Speaker 1: a reason to have some great drinks and celebrate together.
Speaker 3: We had our first date in the month of May.
Speaker 3: It's true, so it's a very special month. It reminds
Speaker 3: me of all the bad choices I've made in life.
Speaker 1: Oh, that's so sweet.
Speaker 3: You're welcome, You're welcome. Happy may Day. I see you're
Speaker 3: wearing your festive flower crown. Of course you've been dancing
Speaker 3: out in the yard. You built yourself a little like
Speaker 3: may pole. You've been wrapping ribbon around it. It's cute.
Speaker 3: I mean you're by yourself out there doing this, but
Speaker 3: you know it's adorable. I'm glad you're getting into it.
Speaker 1: And for the people unfamiliar, what is a may pole?
Speaker 3: It's a big pole, Dylan, what do you mean? What
Speaker 3: is it? It's a freaking pole. It's a decorated pole
Speaker 3: and people dance around it and then they crown a
Speaker 3: may queen.
Speaker 1: Okay, it's like.
Speaker 3: A fertility ritual that dates back to the Pagans and
Speaker 3: European Pagans.
Speaker 1: The Pagans were very concerned with fertility.
Speaker 3: The Pagans was fucking that, right, nothing wrong.
Speaker 1: With that in front of the old gods.
Speaker 3: Well, sometimes you gotta have a witness, all right.
Speaker 1: So here we are in the Mount Murder studio. We
Speaker 1: are so glad to be back. I've been dragging around
Speaker 1: not feeling well, haven't been able to record with my
Speaker 1: beautiful wife. So here I made us late for you've
Speaker 1: been under the weather. Yeah, dragging around old people problems.
Speaker 3: Maybe you're like Vicky Sue Robinson and you're about to
Speaker 3: turn the bead around.
Speaker 1: As they say, up in the Holler, I've been dragging
Speaker 1: around like a mash cat. Yep, yeah, you sure have.
Speaker 3: Dylan, Well, we have a case that when I first
Speaker 3: heard of this case, it just I found it deeply disturbing. Okay,
Speaker 3: And it's been on my list for a while. Finally
Speaker 3: gotten around to covering it.
Speaker 1: Much like my kids. What do you mean it's on
Speaker 1: your list? Oh, it's a wish because your wish is
Speaker 1: on my left. I said, kiss, it is a kiss? No,
Speaker 1: is it? Just just leave that in. That's real, that's organic. Okay,
Speaker 1: this is why people tune in.
Speaker 3: I mean you are speaking on Holland Oates right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you're Is it because your kiss is on
Speaker 1: my liz?
Speaker 3: Yeah, because your kiss you wish? Where did that come from?
Speaker 1: He never says your wishes all Liz.
Speaker 3: No, never in the whole blasphemy never.
Speaker 1: Okay, just stop, all right.
Speaker 3: Stop okay. Ashley Chance was born on April twenty fifth,
Speaker 3: nineteen eighty six, in Somerville, South Carolina. Her parents Rama
Speaker 3: and Jimmy had five other children, some some were from
Speaker 3: previous marriages and then others from their current marriage. So
Speaker 3: growing up, Ashley was closed with their older sister, Brandy,
Speaker 3: and considered Brandy to be like her best friend. All Right,
Speaker 3: I have to say it as a single, like only child,
Speaker 3: you know, just the one of me should have been
Speaker 3: more of me, right, but just the one of me.
Speaker 3: I mean, I was always really envious of people, other
Speaker 3: people I knew my friends who had siblings really because
Speaker 3: they often work very close, and I guess I was
Speaker 3: always jealous, Like I really wish I'd had that kind
Speaker 3: of like companionship.
Speaker 1: We'll see. I've always wondered I had I had a
Speaker 1: sister growing up, and I've always wondered what it was
Speaker 1: like to be an only child. Some ways, I always
Speaker 1: thought it would be cool, like you get I guess
Speaker 1: from the outside looking in, you always have a kind
Speaker 1: of a rosy view of what it must be like,
Speaker 1: Like you get all the energy, the you know, all
Speaker 1: the presents and the attention.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I basically just got all the shit dumped on me.
Speaker 1: So there was only one target, so it was okay.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and my parents are both horrible people, and they
Speaker 3: hate me. So it was just it was not good
Speaker 3: and they were able to focus on said there had
Speaker 3: been another kid there, like maybe that kid could have
Speaker 3: caught some of the heat or something.
Speaker 1: I don't know, you could have had some human child.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, yeah, anyway, Yeah, so I always wanted a sibling.
Speaker 1: I think you wanted to weigh out, yet I did.
Speaker 3: I wanted to run away and join the cir.
Speaker 1: You wanted that, you know what you wanted. You wanted
Speaker 1: a fucking distraction so you could be out. Yes, all right,
Speaker 1: you summed it up, baby, Okay.
Speaker 3: Know me well. Sadly, Ashley's half sister, Jeanie, passed away
Speaker 3: when she was only eleven months old. Very tragic situation
Speaker 3: for this family.
Speaker 1: I can't even wrap my head around what that must
Speaker 1: be like. No, to lose lose a little one.
Speaker 3: My car goes out to parents who've lost a child of.
Speaker 1: Any age, let alone a little one, A little one. Yes.
Speaker 3: Somerville is northwest of Charleston, South Carolina's Low Country is
Speaker 3: a rapidly growing area. I see people all the time
Speaker 3: talking about Charleston, the traffic. It's kind of one of
Speaker 3: those places that's grown like almost overnight. It's like, in
Speaker 3: a short period of time, you have a lot of
Speaker 3: folks moving into the area.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, the Port of Charleston there is very key
Speaker 1: to the economic growth of the entire state. I often
Speaker 1: entertain Heatherwoods stories of infrastructure and economic plans that are
Speaker 1: laid out over decades, and her eyes never glaze over.
Speaker 1: But the port leads to Inland Port, which is the
Speaker 1: railroad system, and it's very It doesn't surprise me that
Speaker 1: the area would boo be like a boon town, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, because with all that work and industry,
Speaker 1: you're gonna have people flood in for the jobs. And
Speaker 1: you know what's strange about growth is I don't think
Speaker 1: anybody any area handles it perfectly because you don't know
Speaker 1: about all the different variables or things that are going
Speaker 1: to happen. You have to react. It's kind of hard
Speaker 1: to be proactive on growth when you're talking about hundreds
Speaker 1: of millions of dollars being spent on infrastructure, and it's
Speaker 1: just really frustrating for locals of any type in any
Speaker 1: area when it's beneficial, but at the same time is
Speaker 1: very frustrating when all of a sudden the place you
Speaker 1: grew up in all your life changes, it seems like overnight.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've experienced this. It's very disheartening. And you know,
Speaker 3: Dylan and we might be able to afford those millions
Speaker 3: and billions in infrastructure if we would stop sending our
Speaker 3: money to other countries and to other people. But you know, hey,
Speaker 3: you can just vote for me on election day.
Speaker 1: And that's another for another podcast. But you know, so
Speaker 1: if let's say you got an old store, an old
Speaker 1: school or something that's been there all your life and
Speaker 1: it's torn down, it might make you sad in your heart.
Speaker 3: Definitely makes me sad to see that.
Speaker 1: But though yeah, the new person who just moved there
Speaker 1: sees that as a dangerous derelict property that's now it's
Speaker 1: turned into a Starbucks and they think that's a good thing.
Speaker 1: But then, and you know, the local if you will
Speaker 1: not view that in a completely different way.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Yeah. I mean people aren't tied. They don't have
Speaker 3: the nostalgia and they don't have like the roots in
Speaker 3: the community and ties to the area to like appreciate
Speaker 3: the history of it, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Well, and I think that's where ownership comes in. Like
Speaker 1: you say, you're on your family's land, and y'all you've
Speaker 1: been there for generations, you know. Ten that nostalgia in
Speaker 1: that connection is something that we're really losing as a society.
Speaker 3: Absolutely well, we're losing a lot of shit as a society.
Speaker 3: Somerville is known as flower Town in the Pines, and
Speaker 3: I'm not sure what that means, but it sounds enchanting.
Speaker 1: It sounds like somewhere I would want to go if
Speaker 1: I was really high on weed.
Speaker 3: It's a picturesque small town with a walkable downtown area
Speaker 3: and the kind of place where residents sit on their
Speaker 3: porches drinking sweet tea. Hey, this place is going on
Speaker 3: my lot of where I want to end up. Okay, Okay,
Speaker 3: I want to sit on a big porch and drink
Speaker 3: sweet tea. Summers are hot and humid, but that's classic
Speaker 3: low country weather. It's close enough to enjoy everything the
Speaker 3: coast has to offer, but still like that small town bot.
Speaker 3: Oh sounds what I understand.
Speaker 1: Sounds perfect right.
Speaker 3: So Rainma described her daughter as a ray of sunshine
Speaker 3: who was always kind and gentle. She loved nature. Ashley
Speaker 3: was family oriented. According to her sister Brandy, She said
Speaker 3: Ashley was quote the best sister, Ashley married and started
Speaker 3: a family at a young age. She had two daughters,
Speaker 3: Caitlin and Hailey. With her husband. Ashley loved being a mom.
Speaker 3: She was described as a very loving parent and it
Speaker 3: broke her heart to discipline her kids or be strict
Speaker 3: with them.
Speaker 1: I like to hit the kids. I'm just kidding, stupid, No,
Speaker 1: I'm just kidding. No, it's tough when you have to
Speaker 1: always felt like you kind of had to lay the
Speaker 1: law down. You know, I'm not beat your kids or anything,
Speaker 1: but just I.
Speaker 3: Think thanks for clearing that up for us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not I'm not punching them. It's not close fisted,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I'm not a monster.
Speaker 3: You please stop. But you have to let people out
Speaker 3: there who think you're being serious.
Speaker 1: I have to lay down the law and you're really
Speaker 1: just teaching them actions and consequences, you know, in a way.
Speaker 3: It's true. But anytime I have had, like, you know,
Speaker 3: to get on to my kids for something, it does
Speaker 3: make me feel guilty or like kind of feel bad later,
Speaker 3: like well, maybe I shouldn't have said that, or you know,
Speaker 3: I mean, I think that's just normal for a lot
Speaker 3: of parents to feel a little bit guilty when you
Speaker 3: have to punish your kid.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, and you still have to act like the
Speaker 1: print stern parent, you know what I mean, go in
Speaker 1: the next room, yeah and kind of cry and cry
Speaker 1: or laugh about what they actually did, but you can't
Speaker 1: let them see that you're laughing about it.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. I don't have all the details, but Ashley's
Speaker 3: marriaged and last the divorce was just does messy. And
Speaker 3: let's be honest, I think the majority of divorces are messy.
Speaker 1: I really just think it's a messy scale and it's
Speaker 1: where you fall on that messy.
Speaker 3: It's like a spectrum of mess Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you got a little bit of mess over here
Speaker 1: in full blown, full gom a shit show.
Speaker 3: Yea a gomb it's a full on gom over on
Speaker 3: the other side of it. Now, after a period of
Speaker 3: you know, being single, she started dating again and that's
Speaker 3: when she met forty four year old John Mitchell Junior.
Speaker 3: Ashley was head over heels in love with John, and
Speaker 3: her mother would say he was the love of Ashley's life.
Speaker 3: Ashley and John had a son together, Aaron. Ashley lived
Speaker 3: with her mother but did plan to one day move
Speaker 3: in with John, so they're planning for the future. They're
Speaker 3: looking forward to building this life together, having a family.
Speaker 1: So she's already tried at love and struck out, if
Speaker 1: you will, and but now she's found the one. You know.
Speaker 3: Sometimes she takes you two or three times. Sometimes you
Speaker 3: gotta kiss.
Speaker 1: Some frogs, Dylan, you do, yeah to fine.
Speaker 3: Where you get before you get a Dylan.
Speaker 1: Before you get a frog, you can stand.
Speaker 3: You might get a few warts along the way, but
Speaker 3: you'll eventually find you one. Now, a year after their
Speaker 3: son was born, tragedy struck in January of twenty fifteen,
Speaker 3: John was in a terrible accident. His pickup truck collided
Speaker 3: with an eighteen wheeler and he died at the scene.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, this is like one of my top fears.
Speaker 1: You're literally terrified all the time when we're on the road.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I mean that's just because I'm probably like
Speaker 3: you know, I'm a little whack adoodle. But I do
Speaker 3: have this like very healthy fear of tractor trailers and
Speaker 3: probably because I come from a family of truckers and
Speaker 3: I know, you're talking like tons of weight and just
Speaker 3: crashing into a car like that's never gonna be a
Speaker 3: good thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, See, I have a healthy respect for the laws
Speaker 1: of nature and physics, right, and machines and heavy equipment
Speaker 1: because I've been big tires, I've been around things like
Speaker 1: that and various capacities a lot in my life. And
Speaker 1: just when you're around machines that the human body won't
Speaker 1: even slow them down, you know, it just it would
Speaker 1: just mush you up and spit you out the other
Speaker 1: end and never miss a beat. It's scary.
Speaker 3: Well, like when the Griswold car, yeah, goes under the
Speaker 3: truck when they've gone to get the Christmas tree in
Speaker 3: the movie, and so Clark's like trying to like keep
Speaker 3: up speed and then eventually it's like he shoots out
Speaker 3: from under the truck. That the idea of being trapped
Speaker 3: under a truck like that, oh my god, Like it
Speaker 3: scares the shit out of me. It's like one of
Speaker 3: those weird, kind of irrational fears. It's probably never gonna happen,
Speaker 3: but it's always at the back of my mind. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that's why I just try to be really respectful of
Speaker 3: truckers and kind of keep my distance away. I don't
Speaker 3: understand these people who do these like erratic moves, bold
Speaker 3: moves around and cut in front of truckers and don't
Speaker 3: use a signal things like that, because bro, if they
Speaker 3: were to hit you or rearind you, you'll be fucked up.
Speaker 1: Well, and I don't understand as long as they're driving
Speaker 1: normally and safely, which they should obviously, I don't understand
Speaker 1: why people with annoyance around truckers or things like that,
Speaker 1: because it's literally the lifeblood of the country.
Speaker 3: It absolutely is, Dylan, And I'm not saying that John
Speaker 3: was like driving around or anything like that, but I'm
Speaker 3: just like, it's such a sad situation and to lose
Speaker 3: someone because that just seems like it's such a violent
Speaker 3: way to have a truck collide with like a big truck.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Oh no, it's terrible. Yeah, And an accident like that
Speaker 1: comes out of nowhere, and I'm sure it's very devastating.
Speaker 3: Well, actually was just emotionally demolished as she struggled with grief.
Speaker 3: She tried to maintain a brave face for her three children,
Speaker 3: but she was suffering from depression in the months following
Speaker 3: John's death. Her family says Ashley never fully recovered from
Speaker 3: the loss, like it was just one of those things
Speaker 3: that they kind of knew she would never get over this.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean I don't know how you do.
Speaker 3: Right, Well, yeah, losing the love of your life. I
Speaker 3: can't imagine something happened to you. I hate I would
Speaker 3: hate it.
Speaker 1: No, And it's just it's so sudden, right, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's almost you could almost compare it to someone being murdered.
Speaker 3: I would be I would be like on the dark
Speaker 3: Web trying to find like a necromancer to bring you back.
Speaker 3: Is there a pet cemetery where I can bury this man?
Speaker 1: You know what? And then, oh, I'm sorry, I was
Speaker 1: comparing a tragic accident to murder, and I was just
Speaker 1: talking about the suddenness of that is what I meant.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you know, murders a lot worse than ways.
Speaker 3: I wasn't even listening to you say that.
Speaker 1: But no, but if I came back from the pet
Speaker 1: cemetery and uh, but then you couldn't even note you
Speaker 1: didn't even notice, like a real change, because I'm still
Speaker 1: just like sitting there watching TV. Yeah, making noises.
Speaker 3: It's like a almost saw me grin. That sounds pretty normal.
Speaker 3: You make a lot of I've never been around somebody
Speaker 3: who makes so many many like grunting sounds, and you
Speaker 3: make a.
Speaker 1: Lot of noise. Yeah, I don't know why it matters.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Well, hey, I don't make that.
Speaker 3: You make that noise in the bathroom, it's really loud.
Speaker 1: I don't scream, stupid dude. You No, it's usually when
Speaker 1: I'm hafting my body around.
Speaker 3: Scream bloody murder in the bathroom. I'm like, what is
Speaker 3: he doing in there?
Speaker 1: Just let me grind, dude, let me make my noises.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I have to listen to it. And after
Speaker 3: a while I'm just like, well, you shut the fuck
Speaker 3: up with your noises. How many noises can you make? Stop? Okay,
Speaker 3: so you make me never want to be married again.
Speaker 3: I just just know if something happens to you like,
Speaker 3: I'm just done.
Speaker 1: That is the sweetest thing here. You're walcome, I ever
Speaker 1: said to me.
Speaker 3: Because I don't think I can tolerate any more grunting sounds. Oh,
Speaker 3: sound like a little hogrooting around in your mudhole. Now.
Speaker 3: By April, Ashley started dipping her toes into the dating world.
Speaker 3: She wasn't interested in sex or a long term commitment.
Speaker 3: Dating was more of a distraction from her feelings she
Speaker 3: could be in the moment, and let's be fair, I mean,
Speaker 3: dating is kind of exciting. You meet a new person,
Speaker 3: You're kind of nervous anticipation.
Speaker 1: You get to tell your best stories again and get
Speaker 1: the first time reaction.
Speaker 3: You never know like how it's going to go along
Speaker 3: the way. You might meet some duds, but then you
Speaker 3: could end up like making a new friend. And that's
Speaker 3: the thing. I don't think Ashley was looking for that
Speaker 3: long term commitment, but she just kind of wanted to
Speaker 3: find some adults to hang out with.
Speaker 1: You know, It's funny for me because people often talk
Speaker 1: about the excitement of, you know, meeting someone for the
Speaker 1: first time, or say the first as time y'all are
Speaker 1: intimate or on all these things. And you know, honestly,
Speaker 1: for me, I like the energy and everything after. I
Speaker 1: like the long term. I like when you really get
Speaker 1: to know someone. That's the part I savor more so
Speaker 1: than the beginning because in the beginning for me, it
Speaker 1: just feels awkward and weird and embarrassed, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? Yeah, I remember, I know if I'm saying.
Speaker 1: For me, I like the connection after all that, but
Speaker 1: I remember.
Speaker 3: The first time and how awkward it was.
Speaker 1: That's it's okay, But a lot of people enjoy the
Speaker 1: excitement of the very first or whatever, but I like,
Speaker 1: I don't as much.
Speaker 3: You don't enjoy that? Well, no, I think you just
Speaker 3: like you like comfort and predictability.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, right, I think you're right.
Speaker 3: You like the feel of like a good, solid, old
Speaker 3: shoe that's broken in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I know if I take a long walk
Speaker 1: in that old shoe, were going to be okay, see exactly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I know you baby, like a back of
Speaker 3: my fucking hand. Well. You know, I don't want to
Speaker 3: judge Ashley, but it does seem very soon to start
Speaker 3: putting yourself out there. I mean, John passed away in
Speaker 3: January and she starts kind of getting on these apps
Speaker 3: in March talking to people, and by April she's going
Speaker 3: on a few dates. And like I said, I don't
Speaker 3: want to judge her, but that just seems really soon
Speaker 3: for me, like for me personally. And I know everyone
Speaker 3: grieves differently. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people would view that as
Speaker 1: maybe quote unquote soon too.
Speaker 3: Soon, not really giving yourself time to process your feelings.
Speaker 1: But I was going to say, I think that's maybe
Speaker 1: what it is, like she's having trouble and she's literally
Speaker 1: trying to distract herself from the situation.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's what it was. Ashley began exploring dating apps.
Speaker 3: She was pretty with dark hair, kind of a girl
Speaker 3: next door, wholesome look, and it's not surprising she got
Speaker 3: a lot of attention on these apps. She very cute girl.
Speaker 3: Ashley received many messages from men online, and she responded
Speaker 3: to a few of them. Mostly, these conversations were casual,
Speaker 3: with lines like you're cute, I like your profile. Let's
Speaker 3: grab a drink.
Speaker 1: Do you like my picture with my fish?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Okay, it's a big fish.
Speaker 3: Nothing too serious. A few of these dates turned out
Speaker 3: to be pleasant for Ashley. She met some nice guys
Speaker 3: and had a good time, but the more time she
Speaker 3: spent chatting and dating, she realized it was kinda eh.
Speaker 3: It's mid Some guys were good, others were like totally
Speaker 3: shitty and I don't know about to tell you a story, Dylan,
Speaker 3: of one of these shitty dates that she went on. Okay,
Speaker 3: because this is just outrageous.
Speaker 1: Now, this reminds me of a listener story we had
Speaker 1: where she believe this is something that's real. Remember why
Speaker 1: our listener story. She went to the guy's house to
Speaker 1: like watch a movie, and he was like sniff, sniff
Speaker 1: fucking what did she say, sniff fucking her head?
Speaker 3: Yeah, he kept sniffing her.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he was like curled up on her on
Speaker 1: the She was.
Speaker 3: Like two feet taller than him, and he was her point,
Speaker 3: she said, she stood up and like his little tiny
Speaker 3: body just like flilled.
Speaker 1: She sat him, like sat him off of her. It
Speaker 1: was like, I'm gonna go, Okay, we got.
Speaker 3: To dig back in the archives because I do remember
Speaker 3: the story. It was quite entertaining.
Speaker 1: It was the best, all right.
Speaker 3: So Ashley and we're gonna talk a bit about online
Speaker 3: dating here in a minute, kind of dive into that
Speaker 3: a bit. But actually went on a date with this
Speaker 3: guy named Kyle who invited her to a friend's party.
Speaker 3: Now you got to consider she's twenty eight, she has
Speaker 3: three kids, and she hasn't been to a party, like
Speaker 3: a house party in a long time. So she thought
Speaker 3: it sounded fun. And it was a typical house party
Speaker 3: as you would imagine. There were guests around her age.
Speaker 3: Everybody's drinking, socializing, kind of getting to know each other.
Speaker 3: I'm imagining there's probably like music playing, maybe some finger foods.
Speaker 3: You never know.
Speaker 1: Oh, I was like, wow, I didn't know where you're
Speaker 1: going with that. But you know, there's so many layers
Speaker 1: to a party.
Speaker 3: What were you thinking when I said maybe there's some
Speaker 3: finger you were thinking like there's some fingering going around.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sorry. I was just like, wow, this party
Speaker 1: is kind of its kind of out of control. You know,
Speaker 1: everybody's just getting finger banged in the front room.
Speaker 3: Are you accustomed to getting fingered when you go to
Speaker 3: a party?
Speaker 1: Dealing? No? But what's fun about party?
Speaker 3: Kind of parties have you've been attending?
Speaker 1: What's fun about parties is it's like you got the
Speaker 1: regular party, just like the basic part.
Speaker 3: And then you got the finger party.
Speaker 1: You got the fingering room. But then you have all
Speaker 1: these like factions amongst the partiers, Like you'll have the
Speaker 1: the ones who uh, the ones who are doing like
Speaker 1: hard drug. You know, you can always spot them because
Speaker 1: they're kind of creeping off together. You see them coming
Speaker 1: out of the bathroom.
Speaker 3: You know, it's not the kind of party I don't weird?
Speaker 1: Yeah no, but you know what I'm talking about, and
Speaker 1: you can you can kind of see the dramas playing out.
Speaker 3: My friends are all pure a snow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can see the dramas. Maybe maybe somebody's getting.
Speaker 3: Mad or something that sounds like a party when you're
Speaker 3: like twenty Oh okay, okay, that doesn't sound like an
Speaker 3: adult party to me. But then again, you know, I
Speaker 3: haven't been to like an adult party in a hot minute.
Speaker 1: I haven't been to any parties.
Speaker 3: That's not true. I had. We had a birthday party
Speaker 3: for you. It was just like the two of us
Speaker 3: and rufus.
Speaker 1: You know, you just talk, it's special for you. You
Speaker 1: just talking about going her going to a party is
Speaker 1: making me like, I'm just tired, and I'm wondering how
Speaker 1: long we're gonna have to be there, and if you know,
Speaker 1: I'm just when can we leave? God? What happened?
Speaker 3: Happened to me? I'm just kind of so, I'm so
Speaker 3: awkward and I have a really hard time making small
Speaker 3: talk with people. And I've said that before. I mean,
Speaker 3: it's I just don't know how to do it, and
Speaker 3: I'm very awkward. So I end up saying like bizarre
Speaker 3: shit that people just stare at me, like what is she?
Speaker 3: Who is this fucking person? Right? No.
Speaker 1: But what's funny is people don't realize this about you
Speaker 1: because you actually fake being really good at small talk.
Speaker 3: I'm a social fucking butterfly.
Speaker 1: But it's funny.
Speaker 3: It's all a lie.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, I know. I learned early on. I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, she's not really like that. But it's
Speaker 1: funny because it turns that you almost interviewing them in
Speaker 1: like not a formal way, but you really get a
Speaker 1: lot of information out of it, and you really get
Speaker 1: people talking about themselves, which is you know, and people
Speaker 1: like and I'll just watch you do this thing backgrounds
Speaker 1: but I know, and everybody's like, oh, she's so cool,
Speaker 1: you know, and everybody's like, oh, yeah, she's so cool.
Speaker 1: But I know that it's literally just draining you, like
Speaker 1: your social battery is being tact.
Speaker 3: That's why I like to ask people about themselves because
Speaker 3: I know people love to talk about themselves.
Speaker 1: And then you don't have to talk about it, and
Speaker 1: then they spend.
Speaker 3: The majority of the time talking and I just have
Speaker 3: to listen. And that's fine. I'm a good listener. I
Speaker 3: don't mind listening, and you know, everybody's got a story,
Speaker 3: so I do fine. I like to talk to people
Speaker 3: and get like into the meat of their background. But
Speaker 3: it goes from like being really awkward and making small
Speaker 3: talk to finding out like when they lost their virginity
Speaker 3: or something. You know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've always had people like tell me personal shit
Speaker 1: like off the rid.
Speaker 3: Oh man, I don't know why I've got like that face.
Speaker 3: I got to people just walk up to me or
Speaker 3: like I have a horrible hemorrhoid, and I'm like, well, fuck,
Speaker 3: that sucks.
Speaker 1: Well I've always called it. I have a big ear.
Speaker 1: It's like people just want to lay it on, you know,
Speaker 1: for whatever reason.
Speaker 3: I think they just look at me and they're like,
Speaker 3: this dumb bitch needs to hear about my hemorrhoid.
Speaker 1: So she's excited about going to this party, right, right.
Speaker 3: So she's excited about this party. You know, it's a
Speaker 3: chance to meet some people, which is really what she's
Speaker 3: after to meet people and just have a good time
Speaker 3: enjoy herself. Now, at some point, Ashley offended another party
Speaker 3: guest over something minor, like tripping over his foot or
Speaker 3: maybe stepping on it. It was something that really should have
Speaker 3: been waved off, like no big deal, right, Yeah, things
Speaker 3: like this happen, but a confrontation ensued Ashley was not
Speaker 3: going to be disrespected by this guy, because at this
Speaker 3: point there's like name calling, you know, yelling. It sounds
Speaker 3: like this dude was a fucking psycho and you'll know
Speaker 3: why here in just a second. But she's like holding
Speaker 3: her own like, you're not gonna talk to me like that,
Speaker 3: so and so. Right, once things had blown over, Ashley
Speaker 3: made her way to the bathroom and this guy follows her.
Speaker 3: He pulls a gun on Ashley, holds it to her
Speaker 3: head and tells her she needs to get the fuck out.
Speaker 1: Like, where's her date at? What are we doing here?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Well that I have a lot of questions. She
Speaker 3: rushed to find her date, Kyle, so they could leave
Speaker 3: the party. And I'm like, bro, Kyle, who are your friends?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Where have you brought me?
Speaker 3: Who are I mean, who's gonna hang around with somebody
Speaker 3: that goes to this extreme?
Speaker 1: And why is he armed at a part?
Speaker 3: Why is your friend's psychotic? Yeah? I mean it's just insane.
Speaker 3: That's why I gotta stay strapped. Ladies. That's about the
Speaker 3: time that you, you know, you stick your thirty eight
Speaker 3: in his belly and be like you want to get
Speaker 3: grimy motherfucker list get grimy. We'll both die to day.
Speaker 1: You think Kyle got a second date.
Speaker 3: I don't think that he was her huckleberry. I don't.
Speaker 3: Once she was home, Ashley debated about reporting this incident
Speaker 3: to law enforcement, but decided it might just make matters worse.
Speaker 3: I don't know, girl, this, I mean, this is like
Speaker 3: a traumatic situation. I mean, this is something that like
Speaker 3: can cause you really have nightmares and be afraid.
Speaker 1: I don't know, well it is, but I understand from
Speaker 1: her point of view, she doesn't know these people. She
Speaker 1: doesn't know anything about them.
Speaker 3: I get it.
Speaker 1: She doesn't know how they're going to react. And at
Speaker 1: once you calm down and get away from it. You know,
Speaker 1: you're just relieve, You're just glad to be in that situation. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: just let it go.
Speaker 3: Brandy's sister, I mean, it's a Brandy sorry. Ashley's sister.
Speaker 3: Brandy mentioned that she was having a hard time in
Speaker 3: the months following John's death. Ashley was drinking, like maybe
Speaker 3: drinking more than usual, despite her mother's rules against it
Speaker 3: at home around the children. Brandy expressed concern about Ashley's
Speaker 3: drinking and some of the decisions she was making, like
Speaker 3: Brandy didn't feel like her sister was making the best choices, okay,
Speaker 3: and she told her so, like, I think you're drinking
Speaker 3: too much. Maybe you're not hanging around with the best people,
Speaker 3: making some bad choices. Maybe we need to reel it
Speaker 3: in a little bit.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, it sounds like they're trying to give her
Speaker 1: some space, help her with the kids. But at the
Speaker 1: same time, you're always you're going to be worried. You
Speaker 1: know that she's been through this traumatic event and it's
Speaker 1: not been a lot of time, and I'm sure they're
Speaker 1: very concerned about how she's doing her mental health and
Speaker 1: all that.
Speaker 3: All of the things right, So a few weeks later,
Speaker 3: she meets a guy named Shane on a dating app
Speaker 3: and see school. They hit it off and they plan
Speaker 3: a camping trip together. Now, I don't know about a
Speaker 3: camping trip for like a first date. Yeah, you kind
Speaker 3: of learning the woods with a strange person. Well, when
Speaker 3: I was younger, maybe I would have been like, Oh,
Speaker 3: that sounds great, let's do that.
Speaker 1: If someone's really into camping, I could see maybe they're like, Oh,
Speaker 1: this is gonna be so fun, and it'll be fun.
Speaker 1: But I think that's an odd first date just because
Speaker 1: because campings I think you could describe as a fairly
Speaker 1: intimate setting.
Speaker 3: Is there some electricity? Does this place have showers? Ye's
Speaker 3: not gonna be like digging a hole and shitting in
Speaker 3: the woods.
Speaker 1: Well, there's a lot, there's no no.
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna be able to shower. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like a lot. You know, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: start a dating app. You know, I'm gonna call it
Speaker 1: in these jeans, in these jeens. Yeah, and instead of
Speaker 1: swiping right, you got the app and you're looking at matches,
Speaker 1: you unzip it. Dude, Hey, that is a million dollar ideas.
Speaker 3: Elia just told somebody. Ah, okay, So Ashley's mom agreed
Speaker 3: to babysit so she could go on this camping trip.
Speaker 3: And things were going well. They reached the woods, they
Speaker 3: set up their tent and whatnot. Shane goes into the
Speaker 3: tent and comes out a few minutes later, and he's heated.
Speaker 3: At this point, he accuses Ashley of stealing or hiding
Speaker 3: his wallet.
Speaker 1: What the hell?
Speaker 3: Well, you never know, maybe he's been on some bad
Speaker 3: dates as well. Maybe he's had someone steal his wallet.
Speaker 3: I mean, I've heard horror stories where guys are like,
Speaker 3: I met this girl, I go to pick her up.
Speaker 3: Her boyfriend and his buddies beat the shit out of
Speaker 3: me and rob me.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, he just got rolled. But now it's like Ashley,
Speaker 1: she can't win, you know what I mean, And she's.
Speaker 3: Just having a really bad run of luck here. Now,
Speaker 3: Ashley didn't know anything about the wallet and told him so,
Speaker 3: but the man was angry and he's like, I'm ending
Speaker 3: this camping trip. I'm taking you home.
Speaker 1: Maybe we shouldn't have went camping, dude, what are we doing.
Speaker 3: Needless to say, Ashley had some issues with the men
Speaker 3: she was meeting on these dating apps. And dating apps
Speaker 3: can work, but a lot of people experience the same
Speaker 3: recurring problems, and just from like judging based on social
Speaker 3: media in twenty twenty six, it doesn't seem like online
Speaker 3: dating or dating apps is working for a lot of
Speaker 3: folks because most of the stories I hear are these
Speaker 3: kinds of horror stories, or they're just complaints about these
Speaker 3: apps or garbage.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, people, it's almost like the whole scene has devolved.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well that's what they say. They're like, it's totally
Speaker 3: different from like five years ago, and.
Speaker 1: It's like it's not even about dating anymore. It's like
Speaker 1: just it's almost about interacting with each other through this app.
Speaker 3: It's just like an instant boost to your confidence. Yeah,
Speaker 3: this person match with me, Okay, they think I'm hot.
Speaker 1: Well, back in the day, you see someone, you meet
Speaker 1: someone or you know, you're friend's house. You like that
Speaker 1: girl or guy or whatever, and then you kind of,
Speaker 1: you know, work up the nerve to ask them out,
Speaker 1: you know, and it's a whole thing. And it can
Speaker 1: be an exhilarating experience, of course if they say yeah,
Speaker 1: and then you go on a date and it's a
Speaker 1: great date or whatever. But there's something weird about just
Speaker 1: pilfering through all these profiles and just you know, this
Speaker 1: just the way the apps are designed, right.
Speaker 3: Most apps are built around these quick swipes based on photos, height, age,
Speaker 3: and then like a short little bio and that can
Speaker 3: cause people to instantly overlook compatible matches who don't mark
Speaker 3: it well, just due to superficial judgment.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think a lot of the apps used
Speaker 1: to be much more involved.
Speaker 3: You would have questions, yeah, exactly, like.
Speaker 1: One hundred two hundred questions, and you like to.
Speaker 3: E harmony, ask you like all kinds of fucking questions.
Speaker 1: You know, I think it was much better or that
Speaker 1: their intention was to truly find you a match, and
Speaker 1: if not quickly, but in a reasonable manner. But now
Speaker 1: it's like they're not even concerned with finding you a match.
Speaker 1: They're just concerned with engagement. Would you continue to pay
Speaker 1: in your subscription v and all that mess?
Speaker 3: Yeah, because a lot of those apps back in the day,
Speaker 3: or those dating websites were free.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they didn't pay at all. No, and they just did.
Speaker 1: The revenue would be from ad revenue or something from
Speaker 1: you interacting with the site.
Speaker 3: Well, a lot of the complaints are people disappearing without
Speaker 3: explanation after they match or chat or even go on
Speaker 3: a date, and since accountability is low, ghosting is common. Misrepresentation,
Speaker 3: whether it's age, photos or intentions, can create distrust. This
Speaker 3: distrust because you go out on a date with somebody
Speaker 3: they look nothing like their photo photos ten years old.
Speaker 1: Have you ever ghosted someone?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Oh god, you did it a lot, didn't you.
Speaker 3: Well, it's just because I'm well, what, I'm an asshole,
Speaker 3: but also just because I'm like antisocial and it's not
Speaker 3: even really like I don't like this person. It's like
Speaker 3: I'm too like I'm too lazy, or just too like
Speaker 3: I'm too in. I'm too I like solitude, you know.
Speaker 1: What I mean. Okay, but it's like I don't know,
Speaker 1: so I go.
Speaker 3: I have to talk to this person.
Speaker 1: I don't know you don't you don't you just be
Speaker 1: like I'm just gonna ignore you and maybe you'll go away.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to the other end of spectrum. Instead
Speaker 1: of ghosting, I'm gonna go with stalking.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like everywhere every time you turn around there I am.
Speaker 3: You'll be watching.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm like, hey, like a police song. I didn't
Speaker 1: know you came to this move you. I didn't know
Speaker 1: you came to this grocery store.
Speaker 3: I'll be watching you like that, just like that. Oh man. Well,
Speaker 3: users often have different intentions. I mean like one person
Speaker 3: wants marriage, another person wants casual dating, maybe somebody who
Speaker 3: just wants simple validation and acts. Mix all these people together, well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I see a problem with that. I see what
Speaker 1: you're saying. Because some people just want you, you know,
Speaker 1: adult interaction, some wanted very casual. Some are looking for
Speaker 1: the love of you know, a long term relationship.
Speaker 3: Want a person to text them like good morning, beautiful. Yeah,
Speaker 3: someone that's that's the extent of it.
Speaker 1: Some want the you know, hookup culture or whatever. So
Speaker 1: and you're just trying to sift through this thing to
Speaker 1: find something that works for you.
Speaker 3: I'm just looking for an uncurable STV. So who who's
Speaker 3: got it?
Speaker 1: I'm just looking for somebody to go on a road
Speaker 1: trip of about three to five hours with me.
Speaker 3: I'm looking for a case of the crabs. Do people
Speaker 3: still get the crabs? We talked about this once, but
Speaker 3: it just seems like such a seventies thing.
Speaker 1: I think that I'm surely they it still exis right.
Speaker 3: I don't never hear people talking about because I remember
Speaker 3: as a kid, I didn't know what that meant. But
Speaker 3: I would hear that term.
Speaker 1: That someone had yeah, or.
Speaker 3: Like I would hear you know, like teenagers or whatever saying,
Speaker 3: and I would be I didn't know what that meant.
Speaker 1: You think they were just because I.
Speaker 3: Remember one time asking an adult what that meant straight hand,
Speaker 3: I did it to me. But yeah, I don't ever
Speaker 3: hear people talk about that anymore. Have the crabs been eradicated?
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know of any program to that
Speaker 1: actually set out to eradicate the crabs, like the.
Speaker 3: Shriners or the the American Legion. You know, they try
Speaker 3: to eradicate polio. Is there some civic organization like the
Speaker 3: Lions Club that's like, we have completely eradicated pubic lize.
Speaker 1: No more crabs.
Speaker 3: There would be no more pubic lice. Maybe it's because
Speaker 3: back in the day people had so many.
Speaker 1: Pubes, so the crabs don't. The crab's habitat has been
Speaker 1: taken away.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, they now that you remove your stinky jungle,
Speaker 3: there's no there. The crabs have nowhere to live.
Speaker 1: I did not think about that, but that actually my
Speaker 1: now as a child or as a young person, when
Speaker 1: the adult explained this clinical explanation, were you weirded out?
Speaker 1: Did it freak you out? Or were you just like
Speaker 1: did it make sense?
Speaker 3: No? It made sense. I mean I understood, But I
Speaker 3: was a kid that, like I would ask adult questions
Speaker 3: and I would typically get an honest answer. Like I
Speaker 3: remember the first time I ever heard the term abortion right.
Speaker 3: I was watching like the People's Court or something, and
Speaker 3: this case came up and I was like, what's an abortion?
Speaker 3: And you know, I was probably like seven eight years
Speaker 3: old and my mom explained what an abortion was. I mean,
Speaker 3: she didn't go into graphic detail, but you know, she
Speaker 3: kind of gave me the legit, you know, the lowdown
Speaker 3: about this is what it is. And I was just
Speaker 3: like okay, because I was I feel like I was
Speaker 3: like I was a very mature little kid, right, so
Speaker 3: I had to be the adult in my household. So
Speaker 3: I just feel like I was a pretty I was
Speaker 3: a pretty grown up kid, so I knew a lot
Speaker 3: of adult things at a young age.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. That's why you see a lot of
Speaker 1: young people nowadays just think everything that comes out of
Speaker 1: adults or older people's mouths is dumb. And I was
Speaker 1: always interested, you know, and I would like to I
Speaker 1: would hear like a real conversation, and I wanted to
Speaker 1: hear I want.
Speaker 3: To know what the crabs are, please know me watching
Speaker 3: a bullshit is.
Speaker 1: I would ear hustle. I would want to hear about,
Speaker 1: you know, the actual serious conversations, you know what I mean. Right,
Speaker 1: Maybe I was weird like that.
Speaker 3: No, a lot of us were nosy little kids.
Speaker 1: That's where you keep going through, like back and forth
Speaker 1: through the living room to get like some kool aid
Speaker 1: and you're really ear hustling not well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I also remember, like it wasn't so it
Speaker 3: wasn't such a big deal for me to hang around,
Speaker 3: like if my mom was chatting with her girlfriends, if
Speaker 3: I was like sitting there, I don't know. It wasn't
Speaker 3: like she shielded me from adult conversations, which she probably
Speaker 3: should have. But my mom was a you know, a
Speaker 3: teenager when she had me, so I'm sure she didn't
Speaker 3: know a lot or she she didn't maybe have the
Speaker 3: best parenting skills back then, right or ever. But you know,
Speaker 3: I was exposed, I think, to a lot as a child,
Speaker 3: So it wasn't really like I had to sneak around
Speaker 3: and get kool aid to like.
Speaker 1: Listen in oh yeah to you was get in the gossip, yeah.
Speaker 3: Okay, And I also like participated in some things I
Speaker 3: probably shouldn't have as a kid as well.
Speaker 1: Oh god, because.
Speaker 3: Like my mom was really we're going off on a
Speaker 3: tangent here, but this is kind of, I guess interesting
Speaker 3: to look back on. So my mom was really young, right,
Speaker 3: so when I'm like five six four or five six whatever,
Speaker 3: you know, she was very young in her early twenties,
Speaker 3: and she had this girlfriend that was also like in
Speaker 3: her age range, and they worked together and they would
Speaker 3: like get up to mischief together and would like bring
Speaker 3: me along for the ride.
Speaker 1: Oh so, like hunting down somebody's boyfriend or yeah, looking
Speaker 1: late at night, searching the bars, things like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this friend Kim was kind of crazy, man.
Speaker 3: She would do some weird ass shit, like some guy
Speaker 3: cheated on her, and she like shitting a cup and
Speaker 3: rubbed it like under his door handle ooh, on his car.
Speaker 3: Dam So then when he reached he got a big
Speaker 3: handful of like her turd.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: Shit like that.
Speaker 1: That's pretty hard.
Speaker 3: Core, like taking a dump on the hood of his car.
Speaker 3: And I'm like five years old. It's like two in
Speaker 3: the morning, and I'm like watching this take place while
Speaker 3: everybody's laughing, you know, because they're they're immature, and they're
Speaker 3: a bunch of dumbasses. You know.
Speaker 1: Damn, she's shitting in the sun room.
Speaker 3: I've seen that before.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, I've greased some door handles, but I've never
Speaker 1: rubbed my excrement under him.
Speaker 3: That was just an example. I mean, I could probably
Speaker 3: tell you a lot more, but then you will be like, wow, Heather,
Speaker 3: you had a really fucked up childhood. Yeah that wasn't okay, No,
Speaker 3: and yeah, so let's move along. Safety concerns, especially for women,
Speaker 3: risks include you know, harassment, scam stalking, or unsafe meetups.
Speaker 3: I mean, we see those documentaries where women will get
Speaker 3: scammed out of hundreds of thousands of dollars because they
Speaker 3: think they're dating like a diamond an air to a
Speaker 3: diamond fortune or some crazy shit.
Speaker 1: Right, he just needs your social Security number and like.
Speaker 3: A Nigerian prince is gonna give you money.
Speaker 1: A withdrawal from your four to one K. But you know,
Speaker 1: once he's able to access his fortune.
Speaker 3: He's gonna pay you back old. Yeah. Ashley was frustrated
Speaker 3: after these two poor connections. We'll just say she still
Speaker 3: had hope for at least one other. So she'd met
Speaker 3: this guy named Edward Bonilla Junior who went by the
Speaker 3: user name E money Bond. Okay, I would have to
Speaker 3: skip on somebody who called themselves.
Speaker 1: E Money, E Money, E money Bond. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think the user name you can actually learn a
Speaker 1: lot from someone.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think yours was like sad Sack sixty nine
Speaker 3: or something.
Speaker 1: That's not true.
Speaker 3: I was like this guy sounds depressed I'm gonna go
Speaker 3: out with.
Speaker 1: That's not true at all. I would never call myself sad.
Speaker 3: Sack, dysfunctional doing just kidding. I don't know what your
Speaker 3: username was.
Speaker 1: I think it was a big D, big D. That's right,
Speaker 1: That's why I see why you've swiped old me.
Speaker 3: See, I know it was like ironic though. Yeah, like
Speaker 3: if somebody nicknamed you tiny Oh okay, so I was like, yeah,
Speaker 3: big D okay.
Speaker 1: Big D paper maker.
Speaker 3: So they're on the meet me app, which I've never
Speaker 3: heard of this app. Are you familiar with meet me?
Speaker 1: No? But I did. I just met me. It was
Speaker 1: a it was a past tense dating app, and you
Speaker 1: would recount like dates in the past with other people.
Speaker 1: Y'all would talk about dates y'all have.
Speaker 3: Met me, but it just like hooked you up with
Speaker 3: like the ghost of someone who's no longer available.
Speaker 1: We Yeah, y'all wouldn't date each other. You would just
Speaker 1: get together and talk about dates that you had already had.
Speaker 3: That might be one of the dumbesties I've ever heard
Speaker 3: of your mouth. Okay, moving along, baby, actually met him
Speaker 3: in March of twenty fifteen, which is only two months
Speaker 3: after her boyfriend passed away.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think she's just high from the grief, honestly,
Speaker 1: And I'm not going to trash her or talk bad
Speaker 1: about her, but I really think that's what she's doing.
Speaker 1: She's having a tough time, uh that. You know, she's
Speaker 1: had this horrible thing happen and she doesn't know what
Speaker 1: to do, and she's just trying to just trying to
Speaker 1: you know, feel a lot.
Speaker 3: Like rebound back, you know, because those rebound types of
Speaker 3: relationships never I've never really seen those work out, right,
Speaker 3: But it is like she just needs a distraction, something
Speaker 3: to take her mind off of the you know, of
Speaker 3: these feelings she's having.
Speaker 1: Yes, definitely.
Speaker 3: Well, the chat with e Bonnie Bond moves from the
Speaker 3: dating app to kick, which is a messaging app that
Speaker 3: for the kids.
Speaker 1: Well, so this is a this is when you're when
Speaker 1: you move from the app to just texting or some
Speaker 1: other form of communication, you can look at that as
Speaker 1: like your your relationships progressing.
Speaker 3: Right, So when I started sending you smoke signals, you
Speaker 3: knew what that meant.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay.
Speaker 3: After the camping date crashed and burned, Ashley decided to
Speaker 3: reach out to Edward. According to Brandy. Ashley thought that
Speaker 3: hanging out with someone else would make her kind of
Speaker 3: shake off this camping trip, this bad date. And maybe
Speaker 3: I'm thinking, you know, kind of boost her self esteem.
Speaker 3: Like she might be thinking, I can find other dudes
Speaker 3: to hang out with me, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 3: like just to kind of make herself feel better after
Speaker 3: this shitty date.
Speaker 1: But yeah, but maybe she should take a step back
Speaker 1: and be like, hey, maybe this isn't in the cards
Speaker 1: for me right now, because you know, I keep having
Speaker 1: these kind of weird experiences and maybe I should slow
Speaker 1: my role.
Speaker 3: I understand, But again, you know, we don't really know
Speaker 3: Ashley's state of mind right because she's gone through I mean,
Speaker 3: she's gone through some shit at this point, right, She's
Speaker 3: going through some shit. Well, it was Friday, April third,
Speaker 3: twenty fifteen. Ashley tells her mom that she's got a date. Now.
Speaker 3: Usually Ashley's dates would come to the door, you know,
Speaker 3: briefly introduce themselves and then take her out. Raymond noticed
Speaker 3: this guy just pulled up and did not bother getting
Speaker 3: out of the car, And as a mother, that would
Speaker 3: be a red flag for me, Like, I understand why
Speaker 3: Raymond was kind of like hmm about this, dude, because
Speaker 3: it's like almost disrespectful when a man doesn't knock on
Speaker 3: the door or like even get out of the car
Speaker 3: to meet you or like meet your family, even if
Speaker 3: it's just briefly. It just seems like the gentlemanly thing
Speaker 3: to do.
Speaker 1: It's almost like pulling up someone's house in honking, Like
Speaker 1: if you want to take.
Speaker 3: My child out, you can at least present yourself.
Speaker 1: You could take a couple of minutes, let me get
Speaker 1: a read on you the manners.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it just seems polite to me and very impolite
Speaker 3: to just sit in the car and like honk on
Speaker 3: the horn like on a my fucking you know, piece
Speaker 3: of pizza. You're just hawking and the waitress is gonna
Speaker 3: bring me out on my tray. Well anyway, Yeah, Brandy
Speaker 3: typically liked to get a feel for the guys actually
Speaker 3: went out with. She would often like scope out there.
Speaker 3: I have to say, I like Brandy. She would scope
Speaker 3: out their cars. She would jot down their tag numbers,
Speaker 3: and then she would greet them just so she would
Speaker 3: get like a physical description, Like she would go knock
Speaker 3: on the window and be like hey, hey, hey, I'm Brandy,
Speaker 3: you know, Okay, Yeah, And I love that Brandy was
Speaker 3: so concerned about her sister's safety, but she's also like
Speaker 3: supporting her. On this particular evening, Brandy wasn't at home,
Speaker 3: so she did not get the opportunity to lay eyes
Speaker 3: on Edward or his car. I must add this that
Speaker 3: Ashley didn't have a cell phone. She shared a cell
Speaker 3: phone with her mother Rama. Ashley didn't take this phone
Speaker 3: on the date with Edward. Rama is at home with
Speaker 3: Ashley's young children, so it probably made more sense to
Speaker 3: leave the phone in case of an emergency, right. Ashley
Speaker 3: left at nine point fifteen, or maybe shortly after Edward
Speaker 3: offered to take Ashley to a bonfire party hosted by
Speaker 3: his brother's girlfriend, Lindsay Diaz. She has lived nearby in
Speaker 3: an area known as Goose Creek. Even if it was
Speaker 3: late at night or early in the morning, Ashley had
Speaker 3: a habit of letting her mom know that she'd made
Speaker 3: it home safely.
Speaker 1: Or I'm sure if her plans were going to change,
Speaker 1: she would let her mom know what's going on.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, so, when Rayma woke up on Saturday morning to
Speaker 3: find that Ashley had not made it home, she was concerned,
Speaker 3: and like, I don't know the family dynamic, but it
Speaker 3: does seem that Rayma understood. You know, her daughter's twenty eight,
Speaker 3: she's an adult. If she wants to stay out, she's
Speaker 3: welcome to do that. But she always let her mother
Speaker 3: know I'm not coming home tonight, Okay, crashing at a
Speaker 3: friend's place, you know.
Speaker 1: That kind of thing, just so she wouldn't worry.
Speaker 3: Well, right, And so since Rayma had the kids, she
Speaker 3: thought it was unusual for Ashley not to call or
Speaker 3: check in at all. Rayma and Brandy were worried right
Speaker 3: off the bat because this was not like Ashley. They
Speaker 3: scrolled through the cell phone to see if Ashley had
Speaker 3: reached out, but instead they found several messages from the
Speaker 3: date Edward. A message was sent to Ashley at three
Speaker 3: twenty eight am asking if she was awake, and then
Speaker 3: it said, quote, just making sure you made it home safely.
Speaker 3: Sorry I left at the gas station, but you were
Speaker 3: too drunk to handle.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Now that's the last thing that you
Speaker 1: want to see in this phone, right.
Speaker 3: So by now Rama and Brandy are distressed. And if
Speaker 3: Ashley had been left at a gas station drunk and
Speaker 3: without a phone, like what had happened to her? She
Speaker 3: had not reached out to her family, she had not
Speaker 3: gotten a ride home. And can we just discuss edward
Speaker 3: for a moment, Dylan, what kind of guy leaves an
Speaker 3: intoxicated woman alone at a gas station in the dark,
Speaker 3: in the middle of the night or these early morning
Speaker 3: hours without a phone or means to get home.
Speaker 1: No, that's crazy, Like, even if some situation was developing,
Speaker 1: you got to figure out a way to get her
Speaker 1: somewhere save And again you can be like, well, she
Speaker 1: was drunk. That's all the more reason. You can't just
Speaker 1: put someone out. Now if they're attacking, I'm not saying
Speaker 1: she was, but if they're like trying to get physical
Speaker 1: or something, I can understand getting frustrated, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. But I still just don't thank you unless
Speaker 1: they're short of actually trying to hurt and stab you
Speaker 1: in the next yeah, yeah, and then you can push
Speaker 1: a bitch down at that point, Oh my gosh, she
Speaker 1: just push her down, don't shake her or anything, but
Speaker 1: seriously get away from her. But you still, I still
Speaker 1: feel like you would have to be like, I got
Speaker 1: to get somebody here to help this person. You know
Speaker 1: what I mean, that's like, you can't just leave them.
Speaker 1: That's weird.
Speaker 3: I mean Edward's mama. I'm sorry, but she had a
Speaker 3: poor job of reason this mon because he ain't right
Speaker 3: and this is like the second red flag for me.
Speaker 1: Well, you have no manners, no way. He didn't present himself,
Speaker 1: He didn't like even take two minutes to hey, how
Speaker 1: are y'all? You know, hey, you know we'll be back
Speaker 1: in a little while whatever. And now this so this
Speaker 1: seems very He doesn't seem like a caring person.
Speaker 3: Do you know what I think we have here, Dylan?
Speaker 1: Is this ship bird?
Speaker 3: Shipbird?
Speaker 1: Come on?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Brandy tries to call Edward, but the call like
Speaker 3: goes unanswered, so she uses three different phones before finally
Speaker 3: reaching him. So he's screening calls.
Speaker 1: Oh, she's calling his number with multiple phones? Yeah, okay.
Speaker 3: Brandy explains that the family is on pins and needles,
Speaker 3: worried about Ashley. Now, Edward says he left her at
Speaker 3: a Sonico gas station, and then later he tells Brandy, well,
Speaker 3: I dropped her off in front of a trailer park.
Speaker 1: Okay, so why how are you having trouble remembering where
Speaker 1: you left her?
Speaker 3: He says, he dropped her off after midnight. Edward has
Speaker 3: not seen or spoken to Ashley since. He tells Brandy
Speaker 3: that Ashley was very drunk and because of her erratic behavior,
Speaker 3: he kicked her out of the car. According to Edward,
Speaker 3: Ashley refused to give her address, so he dropped her
Speaker 3: at the gas station or the trailer park, depending on
Speaker 3: which story he's telling. But here's the thing, he had
Speaker 3: her address, like he had picked her up earlier, So
Speaker 3: Brandy's not buying this story.
Speaker 1: So he can't remember how to take her back where
Speaker 1: he picked her up.
Speaker 3: She's like, you've got it in your like she texts
Speaker 3: you the ad, like, you have this in your phone.
Speaker 1: You've been here, You've been to the house here.
Speaker 3: You're full of shit now. During the phone call, Brandy
Speaker 3: will say that Edward was nice and helpful. She didn't
Speaker 3: get the answers she wanted, though. Brandy decided to contact
Speaker 3: the Dorchester County Sheriff's Department to file a missing person's report.
Speaker 3: Rayma and Brandy immediately launched their own efforts to find Ashley.
Speaker 3: Brandy contacts all of Ashley's friends, uh anyone Ashley had
Speaker 3: recently been chatting with, like even on some of these apps,
Speaker 3: no one had heard from Ashley.
Speaker 1: Okay, this would freak.
Speaker 3: Me out right. Oh yeah, and especially as a parent,
Speaker 3: like what does this happened to your child? On Sunday,
Speaker 3: the guy she'd gone camping with stopped by the house
Speaker 3: to apologize. Shane he had actually found his wallet and
Speaker 3: felt like a giant asshole, I guess, so, so he
Speaker 3: came by to apologize and immediately wanted to help her
Speaker 3: family find Ashley and even offered to speak with law enforcement.
Speaker 3: He was interviewed and was cleared because he had an
Speaker 3: alibi for Friday, which was the night she had gone missing.
Speaker 3: But I mean even he's like really concerned about Ashley.
Speaker 3: Edward Bonia Junior lived in Hanahan, which is about twenty
Speaker 3: five miles from Summerville. Law enforcement wanted to speak with
Speaker 3: him because he was the last known person to see Ashley.
Speaker 3: Edward told them the same story that he had told
Speaker 3: Brandy about how Ashley was like drunk and unruly and
Speaker 3: he just set her out on the side of the
Speaker 3: road in front of a gas station or a trailer park, yeah,
Speaker 3: or a hot dog stand. Like at this point he's
Speaker 3: probably just making it up, Edward. Edward Edward told law
Speaker 3: enforcement that he picked Ashley up from her house after
Speaker 3: nine they'd gone to a bonfire just before midnight. They
Speaker 3: left and he stopped at a gas station and then
Speaker 3: set Ashley out in front of a trailer park.
Speaker 1: Oh, I see, now it makes sense.
Speaker 3: Edward agreed to do like a ride along with deputies
Speaker 3: to show them the exact route he had taken that night.
Speaker 3: Edward shows them the Summer Village Mobile home park as
Speaker 3: the location where Ashley got out of the of the car,
Speaker 3: and he claimed after they had departed from the gas station,
Speaker 3: Ashley had needed to, you know, make a little peepee,
Speaker 3: so he'd pulled over on the side of the road
Speaker 3: by the trailer park, and I guess you know, she
Speaker 3: peede and then was being unruly.
Speaker 1: Like cousin him while she's squatting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so he just drove off.
Speaker 1: Okay, that kind of.
Speaker 3: Makes sense, Like an angry pee You're.
Speaker 1: Not gonna give me the lip while you're squatted in
Speaker 1: the bushes, bud, while you're pissing in front of a
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty single wide. Okay.
Speaker 3: Deputies found it suspicious that he had dropped Ashley of
Speaker 3: this particular trailer part because it was just two miles
Speaker 3: from where she lived, so like, why wouldn't you just
Speaker 3: put her ass in the car and drive her home?
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, you could. You could stand her for another
Speaker 1: couple of miles.
Speaker 3: Surely, deputies checked nearby security cameras, but the cameras didn't
Speaker 3: capture any images of the blue Hyundai Sonata. He was
Speaker 3: driving a car that happened to belong to his mother. Now,
Speaker 3: after the interview, Edward's mother and his girlfriend came to
Speaker 3: pick him up from the police station. Not a good
Speaker 3: look for this guy, Like he had gone on a
Speaker 3: date with a missing girl and then now he has
Speaker 3: a girlfriend picking him up.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, and he's driving his mom's car.
Speaker 3: That makes law enforcement, you know, be like hm hmmm.
Speaker 1: This cause of losing things.
Speaker 3: That make you go hmmm, right. Lindsey Diaz, who was
Speaker 3: hosting the bonfire, reached out to law enforcement. She had
Speaker 3: known the Bonia family for many years. She'd gone to
Speaker 3: middle school with Edward and high school with him. Lindsay
Speaker 3: dated Anthony, Edward's brother for four years, so she knows
Speaker 3: this family super well, right, and she was really surprised
Speaker 3: to hear that Ashley was missing. So she wanted to help, okay, right.
Speaker 3: Lindsay didn't believe Edward had anything to do with her disappearance.
Speaker 3: She said that Edward had confirmed plans to attend the bonfire,
Speaker 3: saying that he was bringing his girlfriend, and Lindsay had
Speaker 3: met Jasmine, the girlfriend before she was taken aback. When
Speaker 3: Edward shows up with another woman.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of weird.
Speaker 3: Not his girlfriend, yeah, Lindsay said. Ashley was not intoxicated
Speaker 3: at the party, and in fact, she hadn't wanted to
Speaker 3: leave the party yet it was Edward who insisted they leave,
Speaker 3: and this was just before midnight. Ashley said she wanted
Speaker 3: to finish the beer they had picked up for the party,
Speaker 3: but Edward's like no, no, no, like urging her along, we
Speaker 3: gotta go, and takes the beer with them.
Speaker 1: Well, so this is contradicting his story even more because
Speaker 1: according to her other witnesses, it sounds like this girl's
Speaker 1: not drunk out of her mind, she's not being an asshole.
Speaker 3: So that just yeah, she's just chilling, having a good time.
Speaker 3: She doesn't want to leave.
Speaker 1: That blows his story out of the water, really, in
Speaker 1: my opinion.
Speaker 3: Well, we're gonna catch Edward in a lot of lies.
Speaker 3: Dylan security footage shows Edward's stopping at that Snoco gas
Speaker 3: station on Saturday, April fourth, and this is around twelve
Speaker 3: oh four am. Ashley exits the vehicle, goes inside for
Speaker 3: about seven minutes, and then returns to the car, and
Speaker 3: a minute later they drive off in the Sonata. And
Speaker 3: these this video footage, these cameras show her going to
Speaker 3: the bathroom in the gas station, okay, which again doesn't
Speaker 3: make sense. Ashley had gone to the restroom, like I said,
Speaker 3: so law enforcement found her. This story about pulling over
Speaker 3: so she could peel a little strange. I mean, most
Speaker 3: young women, including Ashley she's twenty eight, don't need to
Speaker 3: pee within minutes of already peing. No, some of us
Speaker 3: who maybe are older, like we might need to pee
Speaker 3: three or four times in a twenty minute span, especially
Speaker 3: if we've had beer.
Speaker 1: Well I'm telling you man any and now.
Speaker 3: But most young people don't have that problem.
Speaker 1: No, not at all. But now, if I drink like
Speaker 1: two beers inside of an hour, hour and a half,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I will pee like nine times.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this could have been I'm like a camel.
Speaker 1: This would have been. This would have made sense if
Speaker 1: I went in the gas station and pede you you
Speaker 1: dropped me or you're with me? And then you said
Speaker 1: I had to stop through five miles down the road
Speaker 1: and pee again, like on side of the road. That's
Speaker 1: possible if I've been drinking any beer at all.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, So I relate, okay, because all I do is pee.
Speaker 3: I pee all the time. It's like I hit thirty
Speaker 3: five and just started peeing constantly.
Speaker 1: Good Body's like, now we're gonna piss.
Speaker 3: Yeah, just all the time. Like you're always gonna have
Speaker 3: to pee. You have a sip of water.
Speaker 1: You're gonna need to go pee always being But at
Speaker 1: the same time, I feel like I'm retaining a lot
Speaker 1: of water. Make it make sense.
Speaker 3: I'm just like, what the fuck, man, I'm gonna start
Speaker 3: wearing a diaper because I'm tired of like needing to
Speaker 3: go pee all the time.
Speaker 1: You know how to finish stuff. The convenience of a
Speaker 1: dopper actually seems kind of a pilling.
Speaker 3: Yeah, a little bit, But then I think about it
Speaker 3: gets wet and soggy, rubs against your skin, and then.
Speaker 1: You'll be running around with a little dopper hanging off
Speaker 1: your butt, and.
Speaker 3: It's gonna be squishy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's good. I mean me running around shirtless,
Speaker 1: not wanting you to change my dipper because I don't
Speaker 1: want to stop playing.
Speaker 3: Dylan, I ate a few hours ago. Please stop, Lindsay.
Speaker 3: Diaz also told officers another detail that proved Edward had
Speaker 3: lied to them. So during the interview, they had asked
Speaker 3: Edward about employment and he told them he was unemployed
Speaker 3: due to an ankle injury. But Lindsay tells officers that
Speaker 3: Edward was working at the same place as his brother Anthony.
Speaker 3: They work together at our W. Cobbling company. It's a
Speaker 3: flooring company. Police are able to confirm that Edward had
Speaker 3: been working there for eight months and had never been
Speaker 3: out on any kind of like work related injury. So
Speaker 3: why would you even say that exactly?
Speaker 1: I mean, that's very easy for them to confirm, right.
Speaker 3: It just sounds like this guy he just lies to
Speaker 3: lie or something.
Speaker 1: Yes, so dumb.
Speaker 3: I don't really understand the point of I don't have
Speaker 3: a job.
Speaker 1: Like it wouldn't matter if you did or didn't, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. I mean, that doesn't really affect
Speaker 1: your story at all. But when you lie about something
Speaker 1: like that of something obvious, something dumb. That doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: Of course, investigators is gonna make them wonder what the
Speaker 1: hell's wrong with you?
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, and when you have been caught in multiple lies,
Speaker 3: I mean they're gonna be like, Wow, your credibility is shot.
Speaker 3: I don't believe anything that comes out of your mouth,
Speaker 3: and they're gonna look at you like you're guilty right now.
Speaker 3: His supervisor, Rob Cobble told investigators that Edward had access
Speaker 3: to a large Ecano Line van. It was a work
Speaker 3: vehicle that he often was allowed to take home. Cobble
Speaker 3: recalled that on the Saturday morning after Ashley had gone missing,
Speaker 3: Edward called in sick, saying I'm not coming in today.
Speaker 3: I'm not feeling well. But then he had driven to
Speaker 3: the work site in the van. He said, I need
Speaker 3: to retrieve an item from the van, like after he
Speaker 3: dropped it off, he came back to get something out
Speaker 3: of the van. And this was just a few hours
Speaker 3: after Ashley had gone missing. So this is very early
Speaker 3: in the morning, okay, right. Edward also called in sick
Speaker 3: on Sunday, April fifth, again he's not showing up for work.
Speaker 1: He's got bad ankles, dude.
Speaker 3: He's got something about eleven days, maybe he has the crabs.
Speaker 1: He's hurt his ankle from dance around, all his bullshit.
Speaker 3: There you go about eleven days later and invest instigator
Speaker 3: shows up at the job site to speak with Edward.
Speaker 3: Edward seemed flustered and caught off guard, which is exactly
Speaker 3: what law enforcement had wanted to, just catch him in
Speaker 3: the moment he wouldn't be able to fabricate some story.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they totally use that as a tactic, kind
Speaker 1: of surprised you at work or wherever you're at, to
Speaker 1: kind of throw you off guard and then see, you know,
Speaker 1: get a real good read on you.
Speaker 3: Now. At this point, Edward lies again, saying he'd only
Speaker 3: worked this job for two days, but they knew it
Speaker 3: had been eight months. I mean, his boss had confirmed this.
Speaker 3: So again they're like, Edward's a liar.
Speaker 1: Who's look, you can't even see me. I'm not even here,
Speaker 1: move visible. Who's Edward. My name's Anthony, I'm not Edward.
Speaker 1: I'm Jacob. What okay, I'm the werewolf.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So police confiscate the van that Edward had been
Speaker 3: using around the time of Ashley's disappearance. They also get
Speaker 3: some CTV like security footage showing Edward and his brother
Speaker 3: driving up to the company site on Friday night, April
Speaker 3: the third, and again on Saturday, April the fourth. On Friday,
Speaker 3: Anthony was driving a GMC pickup truck. He like pulls up,
Speaker 3: Edward gets out of the truck, gets in the van,
Speaker 3: drives away.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 3: On Saturday morning, very early, just a few hours after
Speaker 3: Ashley had gone missing, Edward can be seen driving the
Speaker 3: van and backing it into the same parking spot from
Speaker 3: the day before, and a car is seen picking up Edward.
Speaker 1: So you're talking about in the early morning hours, right,
Speaker 1: like three four.
Speaker 3: In the morning, Yeah, like five six am maybe somewhere
Speaker 3: in there, okay, Right. The van revealed an array of
Speaker 3: forensic evidence. There were blood spatters like throughout the van.
Speaker 3: There was also a can of polyurethane which had been dented,
Speaker 3: and the can was also stained with the red substance.
Speaker 3: And they don't come out and say this, but it
Speaker 3: sounds to me like like maybe you've hit somebody with
Speaker 3: this can.
Speaker 1: Of paint and it has a lot on it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because it's a dented.
Speaker 1: End and you leave that in the van.
Speaker 3: The blue Hyundai Sonata that Edward had driven on the
Speaker 3: night of the bonfire. Was located at an enterprise rental
Speaker 3: car location in Charleston, South Carolina. Now, his mother had
Speaker 3: exchanged the Sonata for silver Chevy Cruise, so it sounds
Speaker 3: like she parked her car at this rental company and
Speaker 3: took took the Chevy Cruise.
Speaker 1: So she took it and was she already renting a
Speaker 1: car or.
Speaker 3: She owned the Hundai, but she rented this car and
Speaker 3: was driving it around.
Speaker 1: Okay, I mean, is that just a happenstance or is
Speaker 1: that mom culpable? I don't know. Oh, no, dooling.
Speaker 3: But the Hyundai was seized and they were going to
Speaker 3: do some testing. Turns out DNA belonging to Ashley was
Speaker 3: found in that car.
Speaker 1: Now it would have to depend on what type of
Speaker 1: DNA because he took her, you know, he took her
Speaker 1: to the party in the car. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: There's blood?
Speaker 1: Oh Okay.
Speaker 3: Security images from a nearby school showed Edward's home and
Speaker 3: he arrived on Saturday, April fourth, around one twenty one
Speaker 3: am in the Sonata. He trades out the car for
Speaker 3: the work van and leaves at two thirty five am,
Speaker 3: heading back out yeah, in the work van.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is not weird at all.
Speaker 3: Now. At this point, investigators suspect Edward has murdered Ashley
Speaker 3: and that he used the van to transport the body somewhere.
Speaker 3: On April fifteenth, officer sees like both vehicles. A thirty
Speaker 3: year old Edward is arrested for obstruction of justice. This
Speaker 3: charge would hold him while they finished testing evidence and
Speaker 3: building a murder case. Edward was attempting to flee when
Speaker 3: police arrived at his home to arrest him, Like he
Speaker 3: had a suitcase packed ready to run, and I'm.
Speaker 1: Sure that he had a really well thought out plan.
Speaker 3: I just imagine as one of those like tiny little
Speaker 3: suitcases that kids have. This is like going to grandma's. Yeah,
Speaker 3: he's got his little tiny white's folded up in it
Speaker 3: like a Teddy Bear or something.
Speaker 1: And he's waiting for his mom to come pick him up. Mom,
Speaker 1: can you give me a ride?
Speaker 3: Yeah. Once he's arraigned, the judge sits bail at four
Speaker 3: hundred thousand dollars because they definitely see Edward as a
Speaker 3: flight risk. Since there was no body, only blood remained.
Speaker 3: Ashley's family was like holding out hope and I kind
Speaker 3: of looked a little bit into this, Dylan, because we've
Speaker 3: seen a lot of this and true crime cases. Denial
Speaker 3: is a built in psychological defense that helps the mind
Speaker 3: survive what it can't handle. When something overwhelming happens, like death, violence,
Speaker 3: some kind of betrayal, the brain wants to tell you
Speaker 3: like this is too much right now, and kind of
Speaker 3: blocks the reality of.
Speaker 1: It's not it didn't happen.
Speaker 3: It's not real, right, So fully accepting what happened can
Speaker 3: feel unbearable. So denial is this like trick your brain
Speaker 3: plays on you to act as a buffer. And we've
Speaker 3: seen that, like I said, so many times in true
Speaker 3: crime cases. And you know, I understand they are holding
Speaker 3: out hope that Ashley is still alive, but there seems
Speaker 3: to be some overwhelming evidence that she's no longer with us.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, and I understand what you said just now.
Speaker 1: It sounds very accurate and it sounds reasonable, like something
Speaker 1: that your brain does for a reason. But I hate
Speaker 1: to say that given our true crime knowledge, and I'm
Speaker 1: sure many of our listeners are the same, I just
Speaker 1: don't think I could lie to myself in a situation
Speaker 1: like this, as hard as it would be to admit
Speaker 1: the truth. I think it would. I think it's obvious
Speaker 1: that something bad has happened and she's not just going
Speaker 1: to turn up okay.
Speaker 3: During interrogations, the police pressed Edward, even threatening the death penalty,
Speaker 3: but he does not budge. Edward will not reveal where
Speaker 3: Ashley's body is hidden, but based on the blood evidence,
Speaker 3: the police are certain she's no longer alive like it.
Speaker 1: Was that So it's a significant amount of that much.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 3: Yeah, just the what they found, you know, left behind, and.
Speaker 1: You're just going to take the work van you're you know,
Speaker 1: for the company you work for and do this thing
Speaker 1: and just go put the van back all bloodied, like
Speaker 1: what are we doing here?
Speaker 3: Edward's cell phone was used to track his movements on
Speaker 3: the night and morning of Ashley's disappearance. So between twelve
Speaker 3: thirty and one oh two am, the phone showed that
Speaker 3: he was near Ashley's house. Then he drove to Harleyville,
Speaker 3: which is about twenty minutes outside of Somerville. His phone
Speaker 3: pinged near a remote piece of farm land on Browntown Road,
Speaker 3: and this was just after he called into work to
Speaker 3: say I'm sick, I'm not coming in.
Speaker 1: So just after around twelve thirty when he so this
Speaker 1: is just after not they've left, the bonfire hasn't been
Speaker 1: that long, and it's almost like he's going to take
Speaker 1: her home or he's in.
Speaker 3: The area, like two miles from her house.
Speaker 1: Right, because the bombfire wasn't even that far. It was
Speaker 1: in the same area basically.
Speaker 3: Well, it sounds like it was close by, and.
Speaker 1: Then all of a sudden, in the middle of the night,
Speaker 1: he goes way out in the middle of.
Speaker 3: Nowhere to like a completely different town that's not good
Speaker 3: twenty minutes away. I mean, this doesn't really make sense.
Speaker 3: I mean, it would be one thing if you could
Speaker 3: rationalize it, Like there's a cookout that's open till three am,
Speaker 3: so that's why I drove there.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, you got to get a corn do.
Speaker 3: To just drive to like a random dirt road out
Speaker 3: in the middle of the country. There's not a corn
Speaker 3: dog there.
Speaker 1: Well, no at the cookout. That would be why I'm
Speaker 1: going to the cookout. Well yeah, I mean, oh good,
Speaker 1: that's why you're You're not going to the dirt road
Speaker 1: because there's no corner.
Speaker 3: Honey, honey, please keep up.
Speaker 1: There's no milkshakes.
Speaker 3: I understood what you were saying.
Speaker 1: We used to drive. I mean, I don't think people
Speaker 1: understand or some.
Speaker 3: May well, people who live in rural areas, they understand.
Speaker 1: We would drive like forty minutes to get a milkshake,
Speaker 1: like late at night from cookout. Yeah, because there wasn't
Speaker 1: one in our town.
Speaker 3: Yeah. It was like a thing like me, like me,
Speaker 3: you and my daughter because my daughter was all into
Speaker 3: going for like the late night shake. Yeah, like pile
Speaker 3: on the car in our pajamas and drive out of county, yeah.
Speaker 1: Into another county, hit the late night cookout and just
Speaker 1: like power slam this shake all the way home.
Speaker 3: And then by the time we got home, we were
Speaker 3: all three like we fell through.
Speaker 1: We felt terrible, like why did we do this?
Speaker 3: It was lucky we had three bathrooms in that house, ye,
Speaker 3: because we were all lactose and tolerant when it came
Speaker 3: to milkshakes. So just after calling into work, So why
Speaker 3: would he travel to this air if he is unable
Speaker 3: to go to work? Right, Like, if you're sick and
Speaker 3: you're calling in, why are you out in the middle
Speaker 3: of nowhere again? It just decided to go like deer
Speaker 3: hunt before you called into work. I mean, it doesn't
Speaker 3: make any sense. Police were also able to see that
Speaker 3: Edward was actively texting his girlfriend Jasmine, like the entire
Speaker 3: time he was making plans to go out with Ashley.
Speaker 3: So the same evening they're texting, he's texting his girlfriend baby,
Speaker 3: I love you.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't get it. I don't even get Why
Speaker 1: are you trying to date someone you got a girlfriend.
Speaker 3: Well, it's just not a good look, no, right, I mean,
Speaker 3: people get an impression of you and they're seeing Edward lie, Lie, Lie,
Speaker 3: And then we see that he's lying to his girlfriend.
Speaker 3: He's not telling Ashley he has a girlfriend. So it's
Speaker 3: like this guy just lies to everyone.
Speaker 1: And including himself.
Speaker 3: Like it a week after the well, y'all called himself
Speaker 3: e money when he's like got to borrow his mom's car, Like,
Speaker 3: you don't even have a car, dude. Anyway, after it
Speaker 3: was a week after the arrest, Edward told his lawyer
Speaker 3: where Ashley's body was located. Five weeks to the day
Speaker 3: of her disappearance, law enforcement assembled a search team with
Speaker 3: canines and volunteers to bring Ashley home, and it did
Speaker 3: not take investigators along to find Ashley. They go to
Speaker 3: this area, rural area kind of out in the middle
Speaker 3: of nowhere and they find a bone sticking up from
Speaker 3: the dirt.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3: Digging in that area, they find Ashley and she's wearing
Speaker 3: only a red bra Edward denied sexually assaulting Ashley. He
Speaker 3: claimed her pants had come off when he was dragging
Speaker 3: her body.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's for one, how how making a statement
Speaker 1: like that is so ridiculous period, And for two, we
Speaker 1: don't believe you.
Speaker 3: But she also had black electrical tape around her neck
Speaker 3: and wrists. Ashley had suffered blunt force trauma to the head.
Speaker 3: The medical examiner will later say her manner of death
Speaker 3: was homicide. She died as a result of strangulation and
Speaker 3: blunt force trauma. The coroner was unable to determine if
Speaker 3: she had been sexually assaulted. Ashley's toxicology report showed alcohol
Speaker 3: in her system, which they already knew she had been drinking,
Speaker 3: but it wasn't like an overwhelming amount of alcohol, right right.
Speaker 3: But what they find is a muscle relaxer is also
Speaker 3: in her system.
Speaker 1: Oh.
Speaker 3: Police speculate she had unknowingly been given this muscle relaxer
Speaker 3: and that the person likely tried to have sex with her.
Speaker 3: After they gave her this drug and left the party,
Speaker 3: and that person meaning you know Edward, and.
Speaker 1: That lines up with witness account of him kind of
Speaker 1: rushing her, rushing her to leave the party. So it's
Speaker 1: almost like.
Speaker 3: He's witnesses saying she wasn't drunk when she left the party, She's.
Speaker 1: Having a good time. She kind of was reluctant to leave.
Speaker 1: She wanted to hang out have fun, which is the
Speaker 1: whole point of what she was trying to do. And
Speaker 1: then he's kind of, you know, oh no, let's go.
Speaker 1: He's kind of rushing her along. It sounds like he's
Speaker 1: dosed her. He's snuck this muscle relaxer and maybe her
Speaker 1: beer or whatever, and he's he expects it to take effect,
Speaker 1: so he wants to get her out of the public
Speaker 1: eye before that happens so he can be a piece
Speaker 1: of shit. Yeah God, what a dirtbag.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I kind of want to punch him in his wiener. Now.
Speaker 3: When she resisted, they theorized he became angry, Edward sexually
Speaker 3: assaulted Ashley, restrained her, knocked her out, and then panicked
Speaker 3: thinking he had killed her. It is more probable that
Speaker 3: he pulled the car over that second time, like after
Speaker 3: they left the gas station to sexually assault Ashley rather
Speaker 3: than to let her out to pee again.
Speaker 1: Right, right.
Speaker 3: Ashley had confided in her sister and others that she
Speaker 3: did not want to have sex with anybody. All she
Speaker 3: wanted to do was go out, meet new people, have fun.
Speaker 3: She was not looking for a hookup. She had like
Speaker 3: no interest in sex, so her family nobody believed that
Speaker 3: she willingly, you know, hooked up with this guy.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: I don't understand the mind of this cheater either, because
Speaker 3: why would you bring Ashley around your brother and your
Speaker 3: brother's girlfriend, Like he wasn't worried as his girlfriend would
Speaker 3: find out.
Speaker 1: Or doesn't care what they think.
Speaker 3: All these people around to like know you and know
Speaker 3: your girlfriend and know you have a girl, and then
Speaker 3: Edward has the audacity to like harm Ashley. Like, this
Speaker 3: guy's an idiot.
Speaker 1: He's a total piece of shit.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well he's a lot of things.
Speaker 1: And he's dumb. I mean, let's be honest, this guy's stupid.
Speaker 3: He's dumb. But you know, most criminals are dumb. They're
Speaker 3: not exactly splitting that at him, right. Sadly, detectives have
Speaker 3: the difficult task of informing Ashley's family of what they'd found.
Speaker 3: Ashley had passed away two weeks before her birthday. She
Speaker 3: would have been twenty nine years old. She left three
Speaker 3: young children behind. And let's just say Edward is a monster.
Speaker 3: I mean, first of all, drugging a person is about
Speaker 3: as sleazy as it gets.
Speaker 1: It's very cowardly.
Speaker 3: Secondly, attempting to sexually assault a drugged person is a
Speaker 3: makes you a top tiered demon in my opinion. And
Speaker 3: then murdering the victim that you've already hurt, you know,
Speaker 3: just fuck you, Edward man. You're on my shit list.
Speaker 3: And if I could get my hands on you, I
Speaker 3: would punch you. And your probably a little stupid wiener,
Speaker 3: your little lying wiener.
Speaker 1: What a cowardly punk he is, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: He's something else. So May fifth was the day Edward
Speaker 3: was officially charged with first degree murder. The trial will
Speaker 3: began over a year later. In August of twenty sixteen,
Speaker 3: Edward's attorneys made the bold decision to put their client
Speaker 3: on the stand.
Speaker 1: Wow, look, that's a bold decision any defense.
Speaker 3: It's a bold move, Cotton if it works out.
Speaker 1: But in this case, your only hope is if you
Speaker 1: don't have a strong case, or you think they can
Speaker 1: really bring something to the table, maybe connect with the jury,
Speaker 1: or really make a case for their innocence. But this
Speaker 1: is their client, Edward, This guy's their client, and they
Speaker 1: have to.
Speaker 3: See that he's a bumbling idiot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a bumbling idiot who can't keep anything straight.
Speaker 1: So it leads me to believe that either they had
Speaker 1: absolutely no other nothing as far as anything to build
Speaker 1: a defense with, or they're wholly incapable of doing their
Speaker 1: job very well. Either which I don't care because I
Speaker 1: want this guy to not have a good defense.
Speaker 3: Well, it is a calculated risk, which most of the
Speaker 3: time I think should be a avoided at a trial.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, it opens you up across examination from the prosecution.
Speaker 3: You know, in a murder trial, the defense must decide
Speaker 3: like is this going to hurt or help my client?
Speaker 3: So did they want him to explain the damaging evidence?
Speaker 3: Like even in his own words, I'm not sure Edward
Speaker 3: can explain away the massive amounts of blood in two vehicles,
Speaker 3: all the lies he told police, and then dumping a body. No,
Speaker 3: So if they thought Edward would come across as like
Speaker 3: a credible and sympathetic, you know, defendant. I think they
Speaker 3: should try again. You know what, say these lawyers didn't
Speaker 3: go to school. I don't think they know nothing.
Speaker 1: Maybe secretly they're doing the lord's work.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean they are really and that.
Speaker 1: They're just you know, they're just tanking this fucking piece
Speaker 1: of shit.
Speaker 3: But they're certainly not doing Edward any favors.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they want him to go to jail and
Speaker 1: get the longest sentence possible.
Speaker 3: Well, they probably no deep down that he's a piece
Speaker 3: of shit.
Speaker 1: I wonder, I bet you. I you defense attorneys do
Speaker 1: that sometimes.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't be surprised. Edward said that Ashley's death was accidental.
Speaker 3: Now this is what This is a story. He's on
Speaker 3: the stand. This is a story. The death was accidental,
Speaker 3: and he's basically blaming it on the alcohol.
Speaker 1: I knew it right.
Speaker 3: His story is that she had been drunk and combative.
Speaker 3: He led her out to pee on the side of
Speaker 3: the road, then accidentally hit Ashley with his car, trying
Speaker 3: to prevent her violent outburst. Because she was upset that
Speaker 3: he hit her with the car, so he placed tape
Speaker 3: around her wrists, and that a bear hug led to
Speaker 3: strangulation and it was all just a big misunderstanding.
Speaker 1: And it was for her safety. He restrained her with
Speaker 1: the tape, Yeah, and he didn't mean to. How do
Speaker 1: you hit her with the car? This is exactly what
Speaker 1: I expected from Edward.
Speaker 3: Seriously, So we have a killer trying to blame the victim,
Speaker 3: and unfortunately this is common. Killers like Edward often try
Speaker 3: to reshape the story so their actions feel justified, Like
Speaker 3: I had no choice. She was drunken, out of control.
Speaker 1: Right if I'm guilty of anything, it's trying too hard
Speaker 1: to keep her from hurting herself.
Speaker 3: Edward is also trying to reduce moral blame in the
Speaker 3: eyes of others, like he's trying to make Ashley a
Speaker 3: pair of violent, aggressive, threatening in order to shift how
Speaker 3: others feel about the crime. Edward seems to be saying
Speaker 3: it was somehow self defense. And Edward, in my opinion,
Speaker 3: sees himself as a victim because he's a piece of crap.
Speaker 3: Now it's her fault that he had to cheat on
Speaker 3: his girlfriend, drug an attempt to rape a woman he
Speaker 3: met online, and then murder her because she doesn't want
Speaker 3: to have sex with his crusty ass. But this is
Speaker 3: all Ashley's fault, right, all of that, Like she made
Speaker 3: him make all these bad choices.
Speaker 1: So to be this bad and to this dom. This
Speaker 1: guy has been doing this all his life. It's always
Speaker 1: someone else's problem. Or even when he can explain his
Speaker 1: actions or his poor choices away, it's not his fault,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Yeah, he's one of those people.
Speaker 3: Afterward, he hurried home, leaving Ashley on the roadside. At home,
Speaker 3: Edward picked up the van so he could transferred her
Speaker 3: body because he was quote scared and panicked. Edward taped
Speaker 3: a bag over Ashley's head to prevent bleeding and loaded
Speaker 3: her in the van. So he's admitting that he hit
Speaker 3: her body, but I guess that's her fault too, like
Speaker 3: she made him dump her in the woods.
Speaker 1: What the hell?
Speaker 3: He's just such a piece of shit, dude. Ashley's family
Speaker 3: has to sit through this bullshit testimony.
Speaker 1: That's the worst part of these trials, having to watch
Speaker 1: this moron, this idiot monster. Now we keep calling him
Speaker 1: an idiot, but he is truly a monster. And just
Speaker 1: sit there and do.
Speaker 3: Fame listening to this killer blame.
Speaker 1: Her, yes, slander your loved one like this.
Speaker 3: They had to be infuriated, but also devastated to hear
Speaker 3: those details, thinking about her poor body being moved from
Speaker 3: car to car, left on the side of the road
Speaker 3: like a piece of trash, just taking into the woods
Speaker 3: and buried in the shallow grave like she's nothing, and
Speaker 3: then lying through your fucking teeth. Man, I understand why
Speaker 3: families attack defendants in courtrooms.
Speaker 1: I seriously think that that should be a sentence because
Speaker 1: I saw this.
Speaker 3: Video of a man in Charlotte, North Carolina, confront his
Speaker 3: son's accused killer, like outside of the courtroom, and this
Speaker 3: man attacks the defendant and fucks him up. He beats
Speaker 3: the living shit out of this guy. And the whole
Speaker 3: time I'm watching it, I was like, I can't say
Speaker 3: I wouldn't do the same thing.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean I think that you should be
Speaker 1: allowed to do that.
Speaker 3: Well, I just I would have a really hard time
Speaker 3: sitting through this guy's testimony if that were my daughter. Like,
Speaker 3: fuck this guy. He deserves the worst. So this lame
Speaker 3: massed defense does not work. Big surprise, a South Carolina
Speaker 3: jury found Edward guilty and sentenced him to life in prison.
Speaker 3: Here's the kicker, Dylan. On the same day his father
Speaker 3: Edward Benia Senior was arrested for operating a prostitution ring
Speaker 3: out of the strip club where he worked.
Speaker 1: What the hell?
Speaker 3: Ed Senior is also a registered sex defender for attempting
Speaker 3: to rape a woman in nineteen eighty three. So this
Speaker 3: seems like learned behavior, Like men who are pigfuckers raise
Speaker 3: little pigfuckers.
Speaker 1: Well, yes, nature versus nurture.
Speaker 3: I mean, and I'm just going out on a limb,
Speaker 3: hear Dylan, but maybe being raised by a man who
Speaker 3: openly hates women and thinks their value is only sex
Speaker 3: is definitely going to shape a son with similar attitudes.
Speaker 3: I mean, kids don't just listen to what their parents say.
Speaker 3: They absorb how they behave, what they believe, what they do.
Speaker 3: And I'm not blaming Edward's father, but it certainly doesn't
Speaker 3: help Edward to not be a shitty person to see
Speaker 3: your dad do this shit.
Speaker 1: Well, no, and you can go one of two ways.
Speaker 1: You can either be like him or you can be
Speaker 1: totally against the way he is. And you know, respect women,
Speaker 1: love women, protect women. Because your dad was a piece
Speaker 1: of shit who was a womanizer and sounds like a
Speaker 1: violent asshole as well.
Speaker 3: Well, there's this thing Dylan called intergenerational transmission of violence,
Speaker 3: and it's the idea that like harmful behaviors can sometimes
Speaker 3: be passed down through the environment, like modeling and trauma.
Speaker 3: So you got Edward raised by a sex offender who
Speaker 3: clearly has maybe some negative feelings about women. It isn't
Speaker 3: a pipeline for Edward to become a killer, but it
Speaker 3: poses an elevated risk. Right, It's less about copying the
Speaker 3: crime and more about growing up in conditions that can
Speaker 3: distort boundaries, empathy, impulse control. And so I am kind
Speaker 3: of leaning to where, you know, I feel like maybe
Speaker 3: this is what was going on. I'm not a professional,
Speaker 3: but it seems like the dad's a piece of shit
Speaker 3: who thinks it's okay to sexually assault women and pimp
Speaker 3: women out and women are just for sex.
Speaker 1: Now you hear about things like what you're describing or
Speaker 1: generational trauma, and I've even heard people's say it can
Speaker 1: actually be imprinted almost on your DNA. Yeah, your DNA.
Speaker 1: And do you really think that it all could boils
Speaker 1: down to what some people believe is just our whole personality,
Speaker 1: Everything about us really boils down to the chemicals, the
Speaker 1: hormones and our body in the way all that stuff interacts.
Speaker 1: Do you think that that could explain why someone can
Speaker 1: be a shitty person and then have a kid whose
Speaker 1: piece of shit too is or is it nature and
Speaker 1: nurture or you think it's just all this shit combined.
Speaker 3: I think it's combined, right. But I have noticed that
Speaker 3: a lot of shipbirds tend to have children that are shipbirds,
Speaker 3: and then you end up with like these families and
Speaker 3: it's just generations of shipbirds.
Speaker 1: Right, And it's like they have a where.
Speaker 3: It's like four or five generations of this family have
Speaker 3: this reputation of just their absolute pieces of shit, right,
Speaker 3: and every town has one of these families.
Speaker 1: It could just be their brain chemistry, right, They have
Speaker 1: no impulse control, they you know, short tempers or whatever
Speaker 1: whatever you want to call it. That could be a
Speaker 1: big part of it.
Speaker 3: Right. Why do I believe in coincidences? And so seeing
Speaker 3: Edward's dad is a sex offender, it doesn't surprise me
Speaker 3: so much that his son is trying to drug and
Speaker 3: rape a woman.
Speaker 1: And it makes me curious what Edward's father's parent or
Speaker 1: you know, dad or grandpa was like or were they
Speaker 1: the same or were they mean, and you know all
Speaker 1: this and that too.
Speaker 3: You just never know.
Speaker 1: And this is where you got to break the chain,
Speaker 1: you know, you got to do. You have to recognize, Hey,
Speaker 1: my dad's a piece of shit. I don't want to
Speaker 1: be like him, you know what I mean. Yeah, But
Speaker 1: as hard as you might not want to be like
Speaker 1: your parents and stuff, it's almost like sometimes in ways,
Speaker 1: you still you are like them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know what I'm saying. You try hard not
Speaker 3: to be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like even if it's little things or something, but
Speaker 1: you know it might be affect your relationship with other people,
Speaker 1: and you know, just your emotional maturity, so it can
Speaker 1: be tough. You can't you might not be able to
Speaker 1: change everything. But I don't think me being wired who
Speaker 1: I am now, I could never do anything like this
Speaker 1: and I could never be around anyone who do.
Speaker 3: Just why I mean, it's like you don't want to
Speaker 3: put this broad generalization that if your parent was like
Speaker 3: a sex offender, you're going to go out and be
Speaker 3: a sex offender. I mean, you know, we can't. We
Speaker 3: can't just paint that with like a broad you know,
Speaker 3: stroke whatever, But you know you do have people that
Speaker 3: go that route. But then you also have people that
Speaker 3: grow up in dysfunction or shit. You know, they just
Speaker 3: have a shitty life and they are raised by shitty people,
Speaker 3: but they're like, bro, I'm never going to be like that.
Speaker 3: I don't want to be that person. And then they
Speaker 3: grow up and kind of live their life in the
Speaker 3: exact opposite direction.
Speaker 1: You know, right, And that's true. I think I might
Speaker 1: said that earlier. You can do one of two. It's
Speaker 1: just like, you know, people who are molested. Some people
Speaker 1: become a molester some people. A lot of people don't
Speaker 1: fight for victims all their lives because they know what
Speaker 1: it's like to be victimized. So it's very strange.
Speaker 3: It's a really interesting study for sure. I mean, like,
Speaker 3: I'm you know, y'all know, I'm no psychiatrist. I have
Speaker 3: no psychology major. What you've been, right, a sociologist, But you've.
Speaker 1: Been prescribing me medicine every month? What are you talking about?
Speaker 1: You're you're not a psychologist.
Speaker 3: And then I make you lie down on the couch
Speaker 3: until your problems to rufus.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, but then I just go to sleep.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, so well no, but I do find it
Speaker 3: really interesting, and that's why, you know, I do kind
Speaker 3: of like enjoy delving into some of these topics, especially
Speaker 3: when we're discussing, you know, certain cases, because I do
Speaker 3: feel like finding out that Edward's father was a sex
Speaker 3: offender and running a prostitution ring, I was like, huh, well, yeah,
Speaker 3: that would explain his son being like a rapist creep.
Speaker 1: It does. And even if you take nature out of
Speaker 1: it being raised around someone, because when you're a kid
Speaker 1: and you're in your household, you you think that's what
Speaker 1: the world is is, even if you're in a truly
Speaker 1: horrible dysfunctional household, you think that's just how things are, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: And many people don't realize that's not true until they
Speaker 1: start going to school, and maybe some people don't even
Speaker 1: realize it until like they go to a way to
Speaker 1: college or something like that, or finally move out on
Speaker 1: their own, that hey, that's not how you relationships are
Speaker 1: supposed to work. That you shouldn't treat women like that
Speaker 1: or whatever. You know, and you having a very strong,
Speaker 1: violent outburst is not a good reaction to, you know,
Speaker 1: things around you or other people, and so you you
Speaker 1: just think that's how things are. You think it's normal.
Speaker 1: And so as a growing a kid growing up in
Speaker 1: an environment like that, you just absorb that and it
Speaker 1: really can make make you. You become that person and
Speaker 1: that's who you are. You know, you're you're not critical
Speaker 1: of your actions or you don't. You're not self reflective,
Speaker 1: you don't. You just think that that that's the way
Speaker 1: you're supposed to be. You think women are you know
Speaker 1: this or that, and that you're a man and you
Speaker 1: know that. They call it toxic masculinity nowadays. I call
Speaker 1: it being a toxic person. I don't think you have
Speaker 1: to be I think a woman can beat this way.
Speaker 1: I think a man can be this way. It's just
Speaker 1: being a toxic on both sides, right, It's just a
Speaker 1: toxic person. You know. Of course they're broad stroking it
Speaker 1: with a toxic masculinity thing.
Speaker 3: But well, yeah, because there's been a push to demonize
Speaker 3: men and men are terrible.
Speaker 1: Yeah right, But and you see in these same sex
Speaker 1: female couples, you have a toxic person that acts like
Speaker 1: that toxic man.
Speaker 3: I mean, domestic violence rates are very high, yeah, among
Speaker 3: lesbian relationships.
Speaker 1: And it's crazy because I just don't understand why why
Speaker 1: you think it's okay to treat people like that. I
Speaker 1: don't know. It's never made sense to me, like a
Speaker 1: man who beats a woman or people that beat their children,
Speaker 1: I mean beat them, you know, just physical abuse. I've
Speaker 1: never understood how in the world you would ever do
Speaker 1: that or what you get out of it, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. No, Like, as a man, if I
Speaker 1: right now was to be you, you know, start attacking you,
Speaker 1: Like what am I proving? You know what I'm saying
Speaker 1: that I'm strong.
Speaker 3: You're going to get your ass kicked by your wife,
Speaker 3: is what you would prove?
Speaker 1: Well, No, I would probably take some kind of sharp
Speaker 1: object to the head very quickly. I'm sure whether ever's
Speaker 1: within it, But I've just never I just don't know how.
Speaker 3: You can live with you because you're not a piece
Speaker 3: of ship.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, maybe maybe you've.
Speaker 3: Broken the chains of being a piece of ship.
Speaker 1: You be less a piece of ship, so you less,
Speaker 1: you just shipped the don't smell you.
Speaker 3: And then you know your daddy was like a big
Speaker 3: old honk of ship. You're just like a little You're
Speaker 3: like a little Specpec ship farted.
Speaker 1: And you keep on until your kids are like basically
Speaker 1: normal people at some point, or maybe they're kids kids kids.
Speaker 1: But it's starts.
Speaker 3: We can hope, right, it's.
Speaker 1: They just going to be like a fleck as shit.
Speaker 3: We can all hope and those of us who grew
Speaker 3: up in dysfunction that perhaps we've made a better generation
Speaker 3: that will go on to be better parents, and then
Speaker 3: somewhere down the line there might be a normal functioning
Speaker 3: part of your bloodline.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's called the shrink the shit method.
Speaker 3: Okay, Okay, all right, Dylan, Well, thank you for sitting
Speaker 3: down with me to discuss Ashley's case. Like I said,
Speaker 3: this is a case that has just weighed on me
Speaker 3: because this poor girl or young woman, I should say,
Speaker 3: I have a bad habit of calling women girls, just
Speaker 3: habit not to be disrespectful.
Speaker 1: So toxically masculine.
Speaker 3: I'm very toxic masculine. Okay. It's just really sad to
Speaker 3: see that this young woman went through losing the love
Speaker 3: of her life and she's just trying to put herself
Speaker 3: out there. She has these terrible dates with these men,
Speaker 3: and it's almost like foreshadowing what's to come, because then
Speaker 3: she meets this absolute fucking piece of shit and her
Speaker 3: life is over, and you have these three children left
Speaker 3: without a mother. The little boy lost his mom and
Speaker 3: his dad.
Speaker 1: Damn family.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean just her mom, her sister is heartbreaking.
Speaker 1: It's so terrible and so pointless and dumb, and it's
Speaker 1: just it's these kinds of stories that break my heart
Speaker 1: and really pissed me off at the same time.
Speaker 3: It's just it's just it's kind of like a cautionary tale,
Speaker 3: Like it reminds me that we've gotten so comfortable with
Speaker 3: I guess, the the phones, the apps, like getting into
Speaker 3: an uber with a stranger, like you don't know this person,
Speaker 3: having random people deliver shit to your house, like they're
Speaker 3: not casting your house to break again later, or they
Speaker 3: don't see something nice in your own I mean, it's
Speaker 3: like we just take for granted all these things, meeting
Speaker 3: a stranger online.
Speaker 1: Or on an app, Facebook, marketplace them up with a
Speaker 1: pocketful of.
Speaker 3: Money, Greggslist or whatever, Like we just take it for granted.
Speaker 3: But that you know, these types of things happen, and
Speaker 3: so we just have to be very vigilant when it
Speaker 3: comes to, you know, making a deal on Facebook or
Speaker 3: going on a date with someone a stranger you don't know.
Speaker 3: You know, you can take precautions, like driving your own
Speaker 3: vehicle meeting them somewhere in public.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that's see that. You go there in public,
Speaker 1: you you come separately, you leave separately. You're really kind
Speaker 1: of you're creating a bubble around.
Speaker 3: Yourself, making sure you have like a hatchet in your
Speaker 3: bag or whatever. All right, it's just what I do.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Heather, and thank you for that. Thank you
Speaker 1: to our listeners. And we cannot wait until we're back again.
Speaker 3: We have a great midweek coming up.
Speaker 1: We do. We are back on it now twelve more like.
Speaker 3: The weekend up date for you.
Speaker 1: And I gotta say, I got a couple of little
Speaker 1: silly things I'm trying to get Heather to do. She's
Speaker 1: been really cracking me up lately. So maybe I'll throw
Speaker 1: a couple of little bonus episodes out there, a little shorts.
Speaker 1: Bye Doyling, Bye,