Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Paul Junior Podcast. And today I
got Nate Stewart with me. Nate's our background guy taking
care of everything behind the scenes for us, and I
thought it would be fun if we just opened it
up for Q and A and I just let him
load up the questions and kind of fire down.
Speaker 2: So what's going on, Nate, Yeah, what's going on? Thanks
for having me. I appreciate it definitely, And I apologize
to your audience. I know I'm not Mikey. They're disappointed already.
It's fine. I know they're like, where's Mikey, where's the
star of the show. And that's actually where I want
to kick things off, Paul, because obviously you guys have
had a lot of podcasts together and they're fantastic. The
audience loves it. The banter. Mikey, I'm enjoying it.
Speaker 1: I really enjoying it myself, and I didn't know that
I would so much. I guess it was more of
an experiment. And then every time me and him get
together a it gives us a reason to get together,
which we don't see each other that often, especially me
being in New Jersey and him being in New York.
So you know, it gives us a chance to get
together and we brow out the whole time. It's fun,
you know, and we banter and we get into these
conversations that really only we understand and we don't really care,
you know, yeh. And it's fun because it reminds me
of the old days and even now, like the other day,
we watch that episode and it was like flashback. I
feel like me and Michael interact like that. No one
else in my life really was from that time period
or did I grow up with. So I feel like
there's a certain I think what your brothers or siblings,
there's a certain way you are horsing around. Mike called
it right, because that's all we used to do is
hit each other, push stuff, blow stuff up. And so
when I'm with him, we can do that kind of stuff.
We could joke, you know, we give each other a
hard time constantly, but we have a lot of fun
doing it.
Speaker 2: You know. It's like nothing has changed from the show.
Speaker 1: It's like nothing has changed, not for us, you know.
So so it's good.
Speaker 2: It's nice.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like we're reconnecting and we're doing it
on the podcast predominant. I mean, he came in yesterday
just for It's like a two and a half hour drive.
He came up to do pretty much. We did two
podcasts and then he headed back. So he seems to
be enjoying it as well. There's been some hesitation on
his part as always, and I also think that this
is all new stuff. You know, we're not show watchers,
any of us. I mean America Chopper, we didn't really
watch it. I would watch it for the client, but
I don't go watch episodes ever. I mean, people are
rewatching the entire series, but I never go watch it.
Neither does Michael. And there's a weirdness to it, almost
almost like you get a little bit I don't know,
not really self conscious, but especially the early stuff when
we looked like are we were talked like squirrels, I
mean are We had like these high pitched voices and
all this baby fat, you know. And so anyway, I
never watched the show, and so there's always a hesitation there,
even more so for Michael. I think he worries about
I don't know what, but he gets worked up.
Speaker 2: And we had great time.
Speaker 1: We threw the episode on the Mikey bike and it
was perfect and we just talked over it and it
was great to see us so young again, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And Mikey, speaking of which watching the episodes, he
mentioned on the podcast it's been twenty years since he
had watched an episode, right, Yeah, that's right. And you
know it's funny.
Speaker 1: I think the longer you don't do it, you think
maybe there's a reason, and there really isn't. You just
haven't watched it, and now you put it on and
it's I think, Well, you know, A big thing was
we saw my mother a couple times in that episode,
which I did not anticipate because you got to remember,
we have so many episodes that I don't know what's
in what. And it was my nephew, Danny Boy being born.
Now he just graduated college, crazy, so that puts a
time stamp on things. And then we saw my mother
a bunch of times. We lost her a couple of
years ago, and she was such a rock and everyone
was so tight with her, and it was just nice
to see her surprise on camera. You know, she wasn't
on the show lot, but it was the Mikey bike
and he was pulling the bike out. My mother wanted
to be there, and it started with a phone call.
I heard her voice on the phone, you know, and
it was like, oh man, and we were all so
tight with her. So it was it was a great surprise.
And it's Mother's Day weekend. I know that doesn't maybe
play and when this airs, but it is Mother's Day weekend,
and it was a nice surprise to see my mother,
you know.
Speaker 2: And that wasn't playned at all. It was I had
no idea.
Speaker 1: I had no idea of really, you know, I had
like clips in my head of the Mikey bike maybe
but not. It's two hours, so swell with' probably forty
minutes each. It's two parts, so it's a long it's
a long episode. It's not like a thirty minute or
one hour, so just because we did him in two
parts back then. But oh, it was so it was
great to see it all, it really was, and it
was funny, and it was a lot of time me
and we It might have been the me and Mikey episode.
We almost didn't see Vin until the end a few times,
and it was just really me and Mikey and my
father was like in and out and so it was
fun to watch.
Speaker 2: That's cool, and you had mentioned family moments, and that's
a question I have for you. This show really went
more into your personal lives. There was a lot of
things personally that was recorded. The birth of your nephew, there,
your mom. How was that for you guys, or how
did other family members feel about that with cameras, you know,
like in the hospital there, or was that just part
of it you wanted to document things like that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, in the very beginning of the show,
it was interesting because it was such a phenomenon. It
was a phenomenon on its face, like it was just
took everybody by storm, us especially, But then the people
around us were like we were all of a sudden
very famous, and that was a thing to manage. And
it was based on some things that at the time
people were.
Speaker 2: Not sure about.
Speaker 1: Is it good to be screaming and throwing and blowing
stuff up?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: And yes, I think people had an appetite for it.
But it was also like, I don't know that everyone
like thought it was great in the family because then
there's very few tuttle and they're attached to us, you know,
and if people think it's a little weird, then there
it's implied that they're a part of this insanity really, right,
So this is just this is like first season because
then it then we just became pop culture and it
smoothed out and then it was exciting for everyone. But
I definitely think for family members it was a little
weird cousins and everything.
Speaker 2: Just at first, it was just an unusual situation, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, and my mother didn't like it because,
you know, as a kid, me and my father fought.
You know, my father was just the way he always was,
that was way those arguments and those kind of frustrating
scenarios would happen from when I was a kid, and
so as I got into my teens, you know, you
you respond more to your parents, especially if it's an argument,
and so me and my father would fight all the time,
and my mother hated it because it was ugly, just
like most of what you saw on the TV. So
then when that came out and that was the winning
factor to her, that was like a deterioration of something,
you know, like how do people like to watch you
guys fight? It was like nails on a chalkboard to
her whole life because I'm her son, so it's different
you know, and so, but over time she came to
work for me my mother, just like answering phones and
doing charity stuff for us, and she came to love
the show for what it was to people. What she
realized was even though she had some reservations about it
always because of the dynamic, she thought that was unhealthy.
She saw a very unhealthy dynamic with me and my father,
and everyone thought it was great. But when she came
to work for me and she took over and she
started talking to the charities and the people requesting things
and all that, she realized that the show had a
much more positive impact on the world than it did
negative to her.
Speaker 2: Does that make sense?
Speaker 1: And I got a little older, Me and my father
by that time, we're not working together, so there was
some breathing room, and so I think she eventually came
around to thinking the show had was a very positive
thing overall.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was more of a positive platform. Yes, you
and your dad had differences, and that was out for
the public. But look how many people you reached into
the share is and who you were able to do
some of these builds for, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's always surprising to me the amount of diversity
in people that will come up and say what a
significant impact our show had on their lives globally if
they could be from anywhere, quite often even giving them
a direction for what they ended up doing as a career.
And they credit American Chopper for creative inspiration, drive honesty,
like people didn't never fought on television like that, not
in a real way, like it's just happening. The relatability
was through the roof, and we're building amazing things. And
I feel like that inspired like a whole generation of people.
Speaker 2: It really did.
Speaker 1: And I really feel like there's a lot of room
out there right now for a show like that that
is inspiring creator and shows more family dynamic, and that's
something we're getting ready to work on right now.
Speaker 2: I mean it's there because.
Speaker 1: The show I would make next is just me and
my wife and my son and the people around me
and the people I work with and incorporating all that
once again only two point zero, like what's happening now.
I think people are interested in that. You know, you
got to remember when the show was popular back in
the day. I was a kid, and now we're all
adults with kids. You know, some have grandkids, So that
aspect of things is timeless.
Speaker 2: I think that was the exact word I was gonna say.
The show is timeless because I can tell you when
people ask me about working with you, and or I'll
mention it to people, they're like, well, tell me some
of your clients, And I'm like, you're the first guy
I bring beau. Why not? Right, throw some big numbers
at him? Why not? I'm like, well, did you ever
watch American Chopper? Everyone? Yes, you know Paul Senior, Paul Junior.
Paul Junior's the guy we work with. Oh my god,
that show. I've watched it. Yeah, everyone, it doesn't matter.
So so do I get any discounts for that? I
don't know how to try to figure that out. What
do I get a deal or something? Right? Yeah, we
got to work out something. Yeah, you're helping me out,
so we'll see what we can do. H You mentioned
your mom. I think that's great. And here's another part
I've been wanting to ask you, and you've mentioned it
a few times, but you have another brother and a
sister and they were not, you know, stars on the show. Obviously,
Mikey was.
Speaker 1: We saw my brother the other day for shortly right,
we saw him in the shop, and back then he
was like running the steel business. I'm pretty sure it
was like a transitional period where he started taking that over.
Now he's become very successful with it. But yeah, it
was so good to see my brother Danny in there.
It's funny, he looked like a young Dana White. That's
why I look at it, because you know, my brother's
completely bald now, but he had hair, and I remember, like,
I just got this image of Dana White when he
was younger and having some hair, you know, and so
but yeah, you know, it's so long ago. I mean,
you're talking about half a lifetime for us, Like half
a lifetime ago is when this stuff was going down,
you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, how did they feel about the show, because were
they like, hey, we do not want to be featured,
or how did they feel that my sister was on
a little bit you know. I guess it's hard to say.
Speaker 1: You'd have to ask them, but I don't think I
think that there was some stress there in the beginning
for them. I think my sister was still like in
college and stuff like that, so she was at a
different place in her life and the show was roaring
and we were the crazy, you know. And I also
think maybe my sister and father's relationship played into the
stress of the situation. Maybe not always the best I
don't want to get into it, but there's that kind
of thing going on. So my sister wasn't very happy
with him. Quite often I would say, maybe I'm overstepping,
but I think that was a big point of contention. Geez,
I don't know how much I could get into all
kinds of stuff, but I probably shouldn't. But you know, so, Yeah,
she wasn't a big fan my brother Danny, he was, uh,
you know, there was some talks at one time because
it was such a family thing. Hey, you know, it's
like bring in the manning, you know, whereas this you
know that, you know, we bring in the last manning,
we know, right and so, but he was he was
focused on the steel business, and rightfully so, and that's
become in my opinion, probably much more successful in the
long run.
Speaker 2: Obviously, the show has.
Speaker 1: A an expiration date, and it did. But you know,
he's he stuck it out in the steel business and
has done tremendously well for himself.
Speaker 2: He's a juggernaut, I know, You guys have talked about
him a lot and his success. Did he mention anything
during the time of the show even or was he
did they come to him with an offer to come
on and he I don't.
Speaker 1: Think it was anything heavy like that. He just you know,
he was doing his own Yeah, he was focused on
building that thing to what it is today, to be
honest with you, So yeah, he was going for it.
Speaker 2: That's great. Yeah, back to Mikey. I think I speak
for the audience, right. We've rolled out these episodes and
the comments majority of people are saying, why isn't Mikey
just the co host? Bring him on? Yes? Is that
a possibility? Have you thought of that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's my co star. We just we established this
yesterday pretty much.
Speaker 2: Co star. Co star reminds me of like like TV Guide,
you know, like the cover of TV Guide would say
co star, you know, right.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think it's good. Certainly, we're good together.
We have good synergy, we have good rhetoric. I think
we talk about some important things, some nonsensical things, which
is kind of fun too. It just it's like wide
open with him and you never know when he's gonna
take a quick left turn.
Speaker 2: On.
Speaker 1: You just got to follow him around the corner, you know.
And I think it's good. I like, I like us together.
Speaker 2: Certainly.
Speaker 1: I could see why the people love it. You know,
He's funny and we the banter seems to work, and
you know, we're we're we're talking about some more series things,
but mostly we're just having fun.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, we're just having fun. Now, let's say
you bring Vinnie on and Cody, which is coming, right,
it is coming.
Speaker 1: Yeah, It's just hard to get it all lined up,
especially now with the summer coming. This place is insane.
But I am going to work on it, even if
I have to go to them. You know, I've been
trying to hold off on doing any remotes. I feel
like a remote is like I don't know if I
could not do it. I mean, we did it with
Craig Jackson from Barrett Jackson, and that was it was fine,
sounded good, right, It looked pretty good. I mean he
had a cool background. I had a cool background, so
it had like something. But I feel like you lose
something when you're not in person, don't you. Yeah, I
mean that's I would love to have vincitting where you
are and start to really talk about oh man, everything.
I would really have to think about it, because I
think we can do a dozen podcasts a three hour podcast.
Oh yeah, and then me and him and Mikey would
be really good because him and Vinnie and Mikey are
fun together.
Speaker 2: Yea.
Speaker 1: You know, they got a great banter and a different
type relationship than me and Vin, and it like works
pretty well together.
Speaker 2: And you know, the.
Speaker 1: Great thing about like guys like Vin and there's a
handful of them in my life and a small handful
at that they're always the same people. You could twenty
years could go by as soon as you see them.
It's the same conversation. You talk the same, you act
the same, you think, you make jokes the same.
Speaker 2: And that's nice.
Speaker 1: It's nice to be around people like that because they're
far and few in between, you know, like your friend
gro I'm fifty.
Speaker 2: I don't need any friends.
Speaker 1: I don't, you know, really, I mean they're there and
I have acquaintances, but to make new friends and stuff,
to me, I'm just not that interested. If it happens, great,
So you really look at these guys that have been
around for a long time and appreciate them.
Speaker 2: M One hundred percent because I was gonna say, if
we bring one of those guys on, I think a
one on one podcast you vin one on one would
be great, But I think if you throw Mikey in there,
oh it could be really good. Yeah. I think that's
what a lot of people would want to say. And
we got a pretty good setup for three people here now.
It's a great setup and background and everything visually. So
like you said, I think if we're gonna do it,
we gotta do it right and have him sitting here. Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1: And he's only two and a half hours from here,
and it's a beautiful it's a beautiful place to visit.
So he could come in for the weekend and hang out,
you know, at the beach with the family. That's a
nice thing about this location. People could come out and
enjoy the weekend or even at day at the beach.
Speaker 2: You know, it's not like the surrounding area there's nothing
to do, right.
Speaker 1: There's tons to do, right. Yeah, it's a great family day.
You know, even if he just wanted to come out
here with his son, but I know they'll do like
father son stuff and just come up here for a
couple hours. Go to the beach and go back home.
You could do it in the day. I've done the
day trip from Montgomery to Hear several times. All right, Vinny,
did you hear that?
Speaker 2: So, yeah, he would be there.
Speaker 1: I think Michael just saw him, and Michael said, you
should come on the podcast. He goes, I know, it's
just just make just making time is.
Speaker 2: The tricky part. We'll get there. Yeah. You know, I
got this spectacular trailer out here, and I would maybe
set that up.
Speaker 1: It just sits there. I'm not really moving the bikes
around too much. I have a couple trips coming up.
But if I had this mobile, I think that would
be pretty sick in that. It's a twenty six foot trailer,
all aluminum, spectacular, you know.
Speaker 2: And if we put just a couple.
Speaker 1: Signs and light it right, dude, could this thing could
just travel? Then we could just go to Vins shop
and be there at five when he gets off of work.
Speaker 2: Yeah, then he had no choice. Then he has no choice.
Pull kidnap him. Yeah, and everything is mobile, we could
do that, so maybe that's a possibility too. Yeah, all right,
So I want to get back to the show a
little bit. I've been meaning to ask you this. I
don't know how comfortable you're gonna feel with this, but
I'm already uncomfortable, you know me, I answer these kind
of questions. Yeah, this is tough, right. But the show,
with all of its success and everything that you guys
brought to the table and the deals you had, I'm
so curious how much money did each episode bring in?
Speaker 1: You know, the money changed through the years. Obviously we
were on for ten right, so in the beginning it
was I would say nominal, but something right, But it
wasn't really that from the beginning. Once the show took off,
all of our real money came from a the bike
builds because these huge corporations were like just backing up
the truck every episode, and one was bigger than the next.
You know, Fortune five hundred companies all you know, we
were turning them away, so big money came there. The
biggest money came from licensing. Now these are anomalies. When
you get a TV show, you generally get nothing but
your episode fee. The licensing and all this that birth
out of the show was was a monster. So all
the ancillary stuff was big money. T shirts, we were
everywhere in the world. I mean, it was a phenomenon
of licensing. It was one of the great phenomenons in
licensing in the past, say fifty years, one hundred years so,
and that's gone. That type of business, that type of
thing where you know, it was so focused. You had
to like watch US nine o'clock on Monday night. You
couldn't really record it unless you dvr'd it or whatever
back in two thousand, you know, two thousand and three.
So I feel like it was one of those things
where there was so much focus and we wore what
we wore, and man, people just bought it like it
was going out. I mean, it was unbelievable. We would
go to Sturgis or any of the big bike shows
and sign autographs for like ten days straight and literally
need truckloads just to get the cash home.
Speaker 2: It was crazy.
Speaker 1: It was insane like that we were we felt like
we were printing money at one time, very much so.
And it was shocking too, because people would come and
spend one hundred hundred and fifty bucks in line, and
the line would be around the building and they would
buy two T shirts, a hat, a poster that you know,
like they did leave like this. Every person coming through
was spending one hundred bucks or more, you know, because
they're buying for their family.
Speaker 2: Right, you get an autograph on there too.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's it, man. And the signature was the
big thing. It was wild, dude, it was.
Speaker 2: It was insane.
Speaker 1: I remember one time signing for ten hours straight. But
I didn't know any better, Like this was in the beginning.
I didn't know what's.
Speaker 2: Happening to get cars funnel listen. I grew up in
the steel business.
Speaker 1: I was I what it was like to kill yourself,
work seven days a week and have very little to
show for it. So when you're seeing this truck coming
through dumping money on the table every five minutes, I'm serious,
you just keep signing until your hand in face falls off,
you know. That's what I thought, Like, of course I'm
going to. I mean, if I ever had this chance,
who wouldn't do that? And that's what I did. And
then eventually, you.
Speaker 2: Know, it becomes a little much, and then we over time.
Speaker 1: It was good. We would do shifts, so we'd be
be signing all day. But it'd be like me and Vin,
Mikey and my father Rick and Vin and we'd have
all the time, so we'd there'd be like a ten
hour day, eight hour day, and we would maybe do
two you know, four each.
Speaker 2: And we would break it up. Wow, gotcha.
Speaker 1: And then eventually it got so big we would just
send everyone out and mostly do the appearances unless it
was the top tier money for the appearance, you know.
So there was a lot of that too, just showing up.
People were paying us a lot of money just to
show up and wave and speaking appearances stuff like that.
Speaker 2: You know, well, yeah, the licensing tell me more about that, Like, yeah.
Speaker 1: The licensing is crazy, man. And we did deals no
one ever did before because it was fish in a barrel.
And they would come with the standard deal and say
it was like ten percent with maybe like an upfront
of say one hundred thousand dollars advance against royalties, so
it would be like ten percent and one hundred thousand
dollars against royalties. That means they give you one hundred grand,
and those royalties once they hit one hundred grand, then
you start getting paid above and beyond. We would say, no,
we want two hundred and fifty thousand, non refundable, which
means it's not against the royalty. You just pay us
that much money to be partnering with us, and we
want fifteen percent, so we would just go ask and
you know what, they'd be fighting over us. We'd be
dealing with different big T shirt companies. They'd be fighting
over us because they knew they were going to print money.
They saw what was happening and they did. I mean
hundreds of millions, hundreds of millions of dollars in sales.
Speaker 2: Jeez, it's crazy, It's just crazy. And then the theme bikes.
Obviously those corporations saw the ratings and were like, if
we can get our brand on, they probably had unlimited budgets.
Speaker 1: And you know this is where like where I look
at people's contributions to the show and like, we all
know what my father's is right driving for started the
company and he's Paul Senior. I think when I look
at the show from a marketing and advertising standpoint, my
skill set, my style, the way I approached design, and
how well it applied to brands was a huge factor
because we were able to storytell right. We were able
to tell the story of each and every brand through
the creative process, and that was part of what people
loved about the show. And I think that was my
biggest contribution other than obviously the family dynamic, and continued
all the way through when I started my own shop,
started building my own bikes, and you know, right up until.
Speaker 2: Today, this is what this is what I do.
Speaker 1: I build in theme, and I always think about marketing
and advertising. It's always that to me, it's and that's
what I love. I love that combination because it creates,
It sets up the scenario in which challenges me. And
then once I get the challenge, then I can apply
my creative thought process and build these works of art.
Speaker 2: You know. And each bike we've talked about this before,
has its own story and so with that, when it's
got its own episode, then these brands are looking at
it like, not only are we being featured for the
world to see, but we have our own bike that
has its own personal touch that you cannot get Anywhere's.
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, people like I think they, well,
what do we need a motorcycle for?
Speaker 2: I think that was a thought.
Speaker 1: That's the very narrow minded, right when you understand that
that motorcycle is going to be showcased on a one
hour episode of American Chopper with your brand being the
whole episode. Storyline right in two hundred countries and territories
and translated into ninety languages for at least a decade
because the show was that popular in every country. Think
about this, You can't buy that kind of marketing.
Speaker 2: You would go broke.
Speaker 1: Because how do you get in all of those homes
and you're in an episode. You're not even buying commercials. Now,
the bigger companies that were national buyers, this is how
it worked. If you were like a national ad sales buyer,
then if we were to do a build with you,
then Discovery would require you to spend advertising money as well.
Speaker 2: So that was like the give and take. And they
never cared like I did.
Speaker 1: The Geico bikes, right, two of them, the Gecko and
then the US Armed Forces bike.
Speaker 2: They were already.
Speaker 1: Gico spends that kind of money in their sleep. That's
all they do is spend money on marketing and advertising.
So for the to throw another million at the ads
across the all of Discovery at the time, all their
different channels, was nothing. You know, they just did that anyways. Now,
if you were like a big company, but you did
not advertise nationally like with the bigger commercials, then it
was usually just a green light and we built a
bike for you. So some of those guys got a
lot of exposure and they got away with really not
paying anything as far as the commercial time because they
weren't spending that way, you see what I'm saying. And
that's kind of how it went. And we always had
a build. Sometimes we didn't know if we had to
build until a week before we were starting it, and
there was sometimes a lot of pressure there to a
what's the next build? But American Chopper was so fluid
in its honesty as to the reality of the situation
that it made great television because there was always pressure
for the next bike, the next build, this unveil and
then unveil, stack up, and then your powder coat and paint,
you know, the whole process when you cover it. There
was there was every kind of angle for any kind
of drama at all times. It just was built into
every aspect of our shop. It was just the way it.
Speaker 2: Was, you know. And I want to talk more about that,
but imagine being a brand on an episode where there
is a lot of drama. Then you have an episode
that has everyone talking, but not only that, it's like
we go back to what we were saying, it's timeless
that they that, you know, they associate that brand with
that episode where all those memorable moments happened.
Speaker 1: So luckily exactly, And you know, I think, man, even
through the years, I think so maybe maybe a more
conservative companies maybe when they saw the episode, but man,
the the turnaround on their their brand recognition was astronomical,
like every time, right, because what we were doing was
we were putting brands names in people's mouths and minds,
and they did not feel like that was happening. They
didn't feel sold to Now we weren't. It wasn't like
we were trying to undermine the audience. It was just
this is this was our business, and they watched it
and that's how it went down. And I knew, I'm
always telling the story, what the story of the brand,
and then you're watching the story of our lives in
that combination one every single episode for you know, well
over a decade, twelve.
Speaker 2: Very long seasons.
Speaker 1: So you know, it's kind of interesting when you look
back at it and you see the dynamic and what
it was and how there's never even been anything close
to it.
Speaker 2: Since it's very entertaining. I want the audience to know
I'm going back. I'm rewatching season one. Yeah, it's is
it holding up? It's just fantastic.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's holding up for good. And you watched it
when you were young as well.
Speaker 2: I did. My dad was a big fan, so he'd
always have it one and it came out when I
was twelve years old. Time time. Yeah, you know, I'm
going into what middle school? High school? If that's right,
and I'm rewatching it and it's so cool, like think
of you know, the audience has to think for me,
I'm watching you guys, I'm already a fan. Then I
get to work with you one on one and show
damn lucky. How cool is that? Right, luckiest guy in
the world. But it is very cool to see, you know,
all that stuff and how it's held up over time.
So I want to get more into the show because
I am watching it right and and there are things
that I'm seeing that I get where the fans may
have some questions for you as well. So one is, look,
we all know you, you and your dad would get
into fights, and then what would usually happen is you'd
leave the shop and go somewhere. Yeah, I'd usually well,
back there. I'd be like slipping slipping out the back door.
There was like, you know, two doors. I'd just go
chill because I knew it was heated.
Speaker 1: I'd just give it breathing time, him to calm down,
me to calm down.
Speaker 2: How long would it be because the show is just
so mad.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I just went home and then there was a
big blowout phone call, or I would just wait it
out and then come back.
Speaker 2: That happened more often than not. Right, Well, I guess
maybe that's not true. That happened every so often, But
of course the show is gonna you know, it's gonna
be If that happened twice in a month, then you
see that in one episode, you see, and that's that's
part of the magic of television. It really happened. It
just didn't maybe happen all in one day, you know.
But yeah, that was just a part of you know,
my father would take off. I would take off, you know,
it was I needed a little break. My father was
very fun to work with. We had a lot going on,
but he would be very sometimes try and frustrate me.
Speaker 1: That was it. That was his only goal. There was
no point to it. There was no sensibility. There was
no I mean I.
Speaker 2: Would be working on something and he would tell me
that I wasn't doing the very thing I was doing
that kind of thing, and he knew what he was doing.
Just poke poke, poke, poke, and then eventually I'd freak out.
You know, I don't know why he did that.
Speaker 1: That's just how he was, you know, And I feel
like in those early days, that's kind of what you're
seeing now. I'm also a young guy, right, I got
a life. He doesn't know that, but I have a
life outside of work, you know. And so when you worked,
it's kind of hours we were working for the show.
I mean you're talking like extreme seven days a week
sometimes and working like around the clock to get stuff done.
So you know, he wanted me nailed right to the
shop at all times. And I was in my mid twenties, man,
I was still trying to have a little bit of fun, right,
and that that didn't fly, you know, for him, he
didn't really I don't know why he didn't get it,
because he was a fun guy, and you know, I
know he had a lot of fun when he was
in his twenties, you know, But for me, I don't know,
there was an expectation.
Speaker 2: I guess, all right, so I get where you're coming from,
paul But let me play Devil's advocate here, okay, because
I like you. But again, I'm watching the show, so
I see points and Vinnie would say this in the show.
He's like, I see where Paulie is coming from, and
I get where seniors coming from. And a lot of cases,
I do see where your dad was coming from in
some cases. One of them, and we talked about this yesterday,
is you'd show up late in a lot of cases. Yeah?
Was that always something? Yeah?
Speaker 1: You know, the late thing was very interesting because what
the big part of the late thing? And that played
for the show Where's Paullie? The whole nine And we
had t shirts that said where's Paulie? So just to
understand this became a thing, right, But you know, yes,
I would come in late, but I worked till nine
o'clock the night before. Quite often. There was a lot
of if you tracked my hours, I was working like
sixty hours a week. You see what I'm saying. So
when I'm supposed to be there at eight and I
worked till nine the night before, and I was a
little shot and I was thirty minutes late in the morning.
It was like the end of the world. Even though
I was putting in more hours than I was getting
paid for. You see what I mean, That's kind of
how it was. So, you know, again, I was in
my twenties, man, give me a I was trying to
have fun.
Speaker 2: You know. Sometimes that was like a real late night.
It was mid twenties.
Speaker 1: I wasn't even like a teen's I was like, you know,
going out with the boys having fun. I was probably
single or had a girlfriend or whatever, and you know,
hanging with my peeps.
Speaker 2: That's it.
Speaker 1: So and those were fun years for me. So they
didn't always align themselves with Paul Senior's perfect idea of
the way things should be.
Speaker 2: You know. Now, again, I'm going to go off that
because in a lot of cases, what would happen, at
least from what I'm seeing on the show, is there's
deadlines you had to meet. Your dad was really particular
about making these deadlines. Sure, so if there's deadlines and
you're showing up late and how he wants to get
things done, do you see where maybe he could have
been coming from. Or No, I don't really care. You
were young, don't care, because no, you not understand. Because
the reason I say that is because it kind of
doesn't matter. At the time.
Speaker 1: This is what it was, and it created all of
what we're talking about right now, right, So it's to me,
it's not like who's right and wrong. It's what played
out at the time. It's what resonated with the audience.
And it was a natural occurrence. It wasn't manufactured. We
didn't create something. And I think the honesty of the show,
to your point, is what, Look, you're paying attention right
now twenty something years later, right, and you're trying to
dissect it. But I don't really I'm not thinking in
terms of that now. When I was younger, oh, I
would have pushed back. Oh, but I would have had
more of a.
Speaker 2: Thing about it because it was more personal and it
was more timely.
Speaker 1: Now it's so the past. To me, it doesn't matter.
I look at my father, even all the blowouts, and
there was a lot of me and my father had
a lot of attention, right obviously, so that always carried through.
Speaker 2: I don't carry that around.
Speaker 1: I think people remember those days and think, oh, how's everything.
Speaker 2: I don't walk around with that. I see it for
what it was.
Speaker 1: I see how much people appreciated. I grew from the
good and bad of it, and so what else can
you be and do? I don't sit around thinking, oh,
how bad it was or who was right and wrong,
because I know I was right all the time. So
it's just clear the air on that one. But no,
you know two stubborn guys, me and my and you know,
when you think about it, you end up being a
lot like your parents, right, So if you had to
say personality wise, yeah, it was I more chill than
my father, Yes, that's my disposition, probably more like my mother.
Speaker 2: But was I less stubborn? No?
Speaker 1: I was not any less stubborn than my father. And
that's what created the head budding. And everyone relates to that.
You're not really willing to give up too much ground,
and being right is the most important thing you can
be in that dynamic. You see what I'm saying, even
though it's obviously not and you learn from that. That's
how it felt at the time. You had to be right.
You see how much my father wanted to be right
about everything. It was just built in was what you're
dealing with on both sides.
Speaker 2: So yeah, and that's another, I guess follow up question
because in the show, Paul, you do have such a
calm demeanor. I mean really the entire time. I mean
when you're working through it, even through the stress, there's
always a problem. It seemed like that would come up
either last minute or during it, and you just always
kept your cool. It seemed like, yeah, you.
Speaker 1: Know, first of all, we had a great team of people,
so you always have to give credit where it's due.
I mean, the whole group, even the guys that were
weigh in the background that never even spoke on the show,
was a big team effort. But yeah, my disposition is
one of pretty pretty chill. That's just how I am.
I also like problems. I like problem solving. It's one
of my favorite things in life. I know that sounds bad.
Nobody wants I don't mean bad problems, nobody wants those,
but like, I mean, like if we came into a
situation and we were halfway through a build and it was,
oh crap this, I like that moment because it gives
me an opportunity to like go okay, get into like
get into your creative thought process as to how you're
going to fix this problem. So problem solving for me
is as important as the creative process itself, I'll say that.
So I never really found problems to be that overwhelming.
I just knew we just have to reset and go where.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: That's mostly my attitude now. They once in a while
I'd freak out like everybody else, But mostly that's how well,
Especially in the later years, once me and my father
parted ways and I started my own motorcycle company, I
had like a determination to do things differently, that's all.
Speaker 2: It was. Maybe not better, I would say better, but argument.
You know.
Speaker 1: Wise, we never argued at my shop. We had disagreements
and I would win every time. And it wasn't because
I had to be right. It was because I had
a responsibility to the client because we didn't use drawings,
so I was carrying a pretty heavy mantle and I
was making some big promises to some big companies, so
I had to toe the line. But my team at
the time, when when I started building building bikes and
the show split to Senior versus Junior, was one of
the best teams you can ever ask for. I mean,
we had it all and and it was calm, and
it was smooth and We worked a million hours, and
sometimes people got stressed because they had family lives and
things going on here and there. But overall, the feeling
was fantastic. It was nothing that I had ever felt
anywhere else because there was no there was no real
toxicity in this in our space among any of the workers.
Speaker 2: You see what I mean.
Speaker 1: We had a couple of young kids that came in
and ended up being bad eggs, but I but I
waited him out because I give him, like, you know,
way too much. People are like, why are you putting
up with this kid, But because I feel like I'm
trying to give him a chance. Maybe he's got some
issues and he's got to work through it. And sometimes
they get they go out, and sometimes they stay. But
I guess my only point is at the end of
the day, your team is everything, and we had such
a crack team at that time.
Speaker 2: It was smooth.
Speaker 1: I think Vin's gonna want to talk about that, because
I talked to him and I said, dude, I want
to get in and talk about the show.
Speaker 2: He goes. I want to talk about when I came
to work for you.
Speaker 1: That's my favorite part of American Chopper, which is surprising
because the early years was so fun, right, But I
think he could tell that story. But just the same
I think there's I don't know, man, there's a lot
of conversations to be had about.
Speaker 2: This type of stuff, you know. Yeah, and even you know,
back to the question, even if things dig go wrong,
what's the point of getting so angry and yelling. It's like,
you solve the problem and you probably got better from it,
you know, to make the same mistake on the next
bike or something.
Speaker 1: So I would say that even for uh, yeah, exactly,
for like fab and stuff. Yeah, there was a little
curve when we first started building bikes. You learn, oh
that bracket broke. It was only eighth inch. It should
be quarter right. I know that sounds obvious, but the
only way to get there is to break things a
little bit.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But you know, Fortunately for me, I worked through that
portion of it pretty quick because I came from a
steel background, so I understood structural integrity. I understood what
that was, and I knew the vibration of these rigid
motorcycles was problematic for some of the custom stuff we
were doing. So you make the adjustments, you make it better,
make it stronger. But the creative process started pretty early
on with me on bikes when I just started to realize,
man this, I got this idea.
Speaker 2: I got this idea. I didn't have anything to do.
Speaker 1: With theme, like like a Geico bike at first. It
just had to do with a style like that that
was kind of coming from me, and that became our
style ultimately from every bike we built right up until
the end. That became my style, whatever that was, you know.
So I like to work in that capacity. It gives
me inspiration. I need theme. I say it all the time.
I don't know if people always know what I mean,
but I know what I mean, and I need a theme.
Speaker 2: Whatever it is. Your shoes.
Speaker 1: I could build a motorcycle around that pair of sneakers
right there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's wild on the show watching you when
you go on you know, your research and development, like
with the companies. Yes, And even when they cut to
the interviews, they're like, man, I see Paul looking in
his mind's working and turning, and you can tell right
then that you know you're going to use this part
of the bike or this is this is going to
really be a big feature And then it comes to
life and it's it always seemed to work out no
matter what it always did.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you, man, we made a lot of CEOs
super nervous. They they because they want transparency, transparency, they're
all controlled. For example, I want to know everything I know.
We've talked about this before, but a lot of sleepless
nights leading up to these unveils because they built that
bike in their head a thousand times and now they're thinking, well,
what if I don't like it, you know, and then boom,
it's better than they could have done, and it looks
branded like they couldn't believe, and everything they said we incorporated.
So a sigh of relief from everyone very much, and
then their interviews.
Speaker 2: Would be look like a sigh of relief.
Speaker 1: And then we'd get a call the next day from
a company saying, hey, I really liked what you see that.
Speaker 2: See when when when?
Speaker 1: When the show split to Senior versus Junior. The one
thing we really shined with other than our team was
the way we marketed for our brands. Because remember the
show was split. OCC had their client for an episode,
we had our client, whoever that was. We both built bikes.
It did get a little thinned out at that time.
Because that's normally when we were together, there was one
client and sometimes went two hours to two different episodes
to make up one, and so this split. But so
I was always very hyper focused on really being talking
about the brand, referring to the brand properly before their products.
I would make sure they were said right. If there
was a tagline, I'd use it a lot, and I'd
use it appropriately. I wasn't holding the can and saying
buy this tomato soup. I was saying all the things
that this brand wanted me to say, and consistently, because
again you have to understand, we didn't have any control
over editing. So what I knew out of percentages of time,
if I kept reinforcing the message as we're building this
infused creative that eventually it would make television, you see.
Speaker 2: And that was a lot. We would do that a lot,
and you'd get very little out of that big pile
of information you kept putting out there. You know, Yeah,
you're representing the company, so you don't want to you
don't want to be the one that's uh million, million percent.
Speaker 1: And it's so funny because I think maybe a viewer
would see that we were building a bike which was true,
but I felt like I was working for that company.
It was my I was the marketing guy for that
company for that time period, and I made some big
promises and I had no I have no pictures that
they signed off on. So that's a lot of pressure.
That also helped me be even more creative. It pushed
me even harder to put more into each and every project.
And the same thing with the team. We were always
pushing ourselves into our abilities. We always pushed past our
last thing we did at least most of the time.
And I would push all my guys, Vinnie Brendan, very
qualified people. I mean, we would all be pushed, Oh
can you do it? I don't know, Well, see if
you can get it, See if you can do it. Okay,
you know, and then they start working, Okay, I think
we got it. Like I would have not done this
had it not been for this project. And even when
I had Rick on one thing, I said, what's the
one thing you missed from the show?
Speaker 2: The creative process?
Speaker 1: That's the one thing he misses that really came from
a team effort at the time where we were making
Magic and I was the head of that process.
Speaker 2: Do you see what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So me and Rick working together, working through things.
Speaker 2: He misses that that's a fun thing.
Speaker 1: And I remember having conversations with him, and I'm very
respectful with people like Rick because he has so much
to contribute. And then you have to just tow the
lines and like your idea, but we're gonna stick with this,
you know, we're gonna make it, keep that arch going
on the bottom of the tank whatever, Just things like
that fine tune.
Speaker 2: Because you're in charge and you representing the content. That's it.
Speaker 1: And it's so weird because I think people who are
in charge creatively, they can get like I always found
that if I use these guys, first of all, if
they're working for you or you're paying them to be there,
you're paying them for their expertise, right, So if that
can improve what you're gonna give to the client, then
how do you not take that into consideration. Been tremendously
great suggestions made, even little ones that made a big
difference in a step on a motorcycle that was just
you know, I was orchestrating with these guys and their talents,
and I was it was all coming together, and I
had the vision in my head, but we would work
through it as a team and it was really remarkable.
What a weird business model, you know, Like nobody in
the world does theme motorcycles and sells them to all
exclusively large corporations. I don't build bikes other than that,
and they might come far and few in between. But
my body of work is is pretty stout.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 1: There's no there's no production bikes out there from me,
you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: It's and it's something to see them in person too.
I think anybody who's seen your bikes in person they
look bad ass on TV. When you start seeing the
details of everything that went into it from the show
and you're like, wow, these are truly works of art.
Speaker 1: You're right, even the one behind you there, Dude, that
that build off two bike, this is you know, I
never get tired of complimenting that bike right there.
Speaker 2: It's not like I'm like.
Speaker 1: It's just sitting around for you know, twenty years. Look
at that thing, dude, I know, and in that it
belongs in a museum. It is gorgeous. You don't have
to like motorcycles to like these bikes. You see, this
thing could be right in a museum and a little
kid would come up and love that bike just because
it's attractive to the eye. The form and function of
what you're dealing with. I'm telling you that American Chopper
is made up of ninety percent not motorcycle fans. Our
audience is ninety percent nothing to do with motorcycles. What's
that about, right? They enjoy the family dynamic and the design,
the artwork.
Speaker 2: And going back to what you were saying, the creative process.
As a fan, it's so cool to see because here
you are with the steel frame, nothing right, and by
the end of the episode, it becomes your imagination brought
to life, the team's imagination brought to life, and we
miss that.
Speaker 1: You know, me too, Man, me too, honestly I do,
even like you know, meeting with Rick and Mikey and
like the more I meet with the past, the more
I'm like, man, I think we could do something like
that again, you know. And you know your point with
the frame right, So that's what it is. It's like,
this is like a pile of pipe on the on
the on the lift right, and the frame is such
is probably the most critical.
Speaker 2: Point.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of how to say this. The
frame is extremely critical to the overall design of the motorcycle.
If it's tall and it needs to be stretched out,
then it's not the right frame, you see. So quite
often I would order the frames and I would figure
out all the proportions, so those frames are very purpose built.
Sometimes I need a real long backbone, sometimes shorter, wider tire, narrower,
whatever fits the theme. So that frame is literally the
bones of the bike, and then everything works around that,
and so your proportions and everything like that, your rake
and stretch, the way your front end looks, the height
of your tire, all that stuff has to be figured
out so that it could be engineered properly so that
it has the right rake and trail so that when
you drive the motorcycle it's safe, you know. So, yeah,
it's pretty interesting. It is a fun aspect of form
and function. It is moving art. Think about it how much.
It's the funnest thing about it that you can look
at that bike and go wow, and then get on
it and rip down the street on It's a real
it's a really interesting combination. And I'm so glad God
didn't just make me a painter. You know, No, don't
get me wrong. Painters are fantastic, but this is like
way funner and I mean painter, like somebody who just
does paintings in a frame and put on a wall.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I love this form of art and it translates into
everything and anything for me, interior, cars, you name it.
This gift that God has given me is the creative
gift and it applies to absolutely everything and anything. And
when I put my mind to it, and especially in
combination with my wife, who is hyper creative as well,
we make some crazy stuff together. Man. We come up
with some really good ideas and once applied, it's as
impressive as that motorcycle behind you.
Speaker 2: And that's that's where we're at. That's what we do.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't think people fully understand that, but
I think they're getting ready to cause we're I think
we're gonna have some pretty good content coming out.
Speaker 2: Guys. Got to stay tuned for that. Yeah, stay tuned.
And another thing, And again, I'm not trying to call
you out on all your flaws. So yeah, you are
getting tired of Yeah, I got one more. I got
one more. I told you be prepared today. Okay, So
you did tell me that, So the pressure's on, so
hopefully you won't beat me up after this. But another
thing here too, right, was the cleanliness of the shop. Yeah,
your dad was really big on that. Yeah. Again, I'm
rewatching season one. So when you guys make the transition
to the new shop, a big thing he says was
we're gonna keep this place clean and organ Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So you obviously that played big time with the coffee
cups and everything else, right, And that was always the case. Uh,
I don't like the word cleanliness. Sounds like we were dirty.
It was messy. Quite often was messy, yeah, because you're
really dealing more with tools, not looking there's food everywhere,
you know, maybe coffee cups, which was always a problem
because they would just be everywhere. You know what, dude,
that's every shop I've ever been to at any given time,
no matter where you are. Very few shops are perfect.
Where the people aren't leaving tools out, there isn't stuff.
Especially you got a problem. You got three guys on it.
You're putting the motor in, it's not bitting it. Grab
this tool, that tool. You know, the air hose is
out and it looks like you know what's going on here. Certainly,
at the end of the day, the cleanups probably could
have been better. But I don't mind a little mess.
Speaker 2: I kind of like to.
Speaker 1: Operate in a little bit of chaos. I just like
that for me, you know. I like a little even
here right now it's a little messy. Yeah, like I
have like I'm working on a sign, you know, I'm
doing a little restoration over here, and like I'm kind
of sprawled out, and I like it not neat and
like all this looks great, but I've got a little workshop.
Speaker 2: I walk into it like there's something going on. I
like that. I like that vibe, you know. But certainly
it would get out of hand. You know. We would
be have some days where we were real busy and.
Speaker 1: My father would come in and would just look like
a bomb went off, you know, and then we'd have
to shut it down, clean up, reset, And it's good.
It's also nice to have a nice environment where you're like, wow,
there's not stuff everywhere where every You're spending five minutes
looking for a tool every other tool, you know, So
there's something to it as far as being organized.
Speaker 2: And then later I like my shop knee neater the better. So,
but that's just.
Speaker 1: Being young, I think mostly, you know, you had a
bunch of young guys, and dude, we were all in
our twenties, all of us and some younger.
Speaker 2: Right, and he was around your age when the show
he was you know, I'm trying to think. Yeah, he
was probably I think it was like fifty four.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he was probably like four years older than
me now right, Yeah when the show, when the show first.
Speaker 2: Started, So he was just he was just really particular
about that. Yeah, you know, yeah, and I think in.
Speaker 1: Your fifties, I mean you saw he was so prime.
My father, he was just fired up the diesel, lots
of energy. Yeah, it was you know, I think fifties
is a good is a good age for.
Speaker 2: That kind of thing, you know, right, yeah, for sure.
But I get to your point too, right, like at
the end of the day, maybe clean the whole shop
up so you come in the next morning.
Speaker 1: He's got a different You always try that. It never
never works. Never we tried that every you know, I
grew up in the steel business. It was the same
thing there, you know, right, you got all your clamps
for your making pipe brown there's clamps all over instead
of hanging them up, you know, just just stuff like.
Speaker 2: It's just how it is. Yeah, well, like you said,
you're working, so it's gonna get messy. It's just I
think so.
Speaker 1: But you know it played heavy into the show, and
you know it gave my father one more thing to
bug out about.
Speaker 2: And that made great television, you know. Yeah. Uh, speaking
of your dad, I want to keep it going. Just
just another question with him. So and again I'm speaking
for the fans. Okay, you got this podcast. It's great podcast,
and everyone's saying Senior gonna come on the podcast. I
would have them on. I don't know that he would
come on, but I would ask him why not? Why
Why do you think he wouldn't. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm just being presumptuous. But have you reached out
to him at all to be on the podcast?
Speaker 2: No, not yet, gotcha. I just I don't know if
he would want to do that. Yeah, maybe, but I
don't I could ask him. He might be ready to
come on. Who knows. I would hope.
Speaker 1: So he's never been to the island to my knowledge,
really he hasn't been down here.
Speaker 2: Nope, yeah, nope, But maybe I should change that. You know,
because he's wonder what I should do and shouldn't do
concerning things of this nature. It's the right move. But
I would love to have him on, yeah, because that
I'm telling you just from what I see from the fans. Yeah,
Paul Senior would obviously probably be my biggest guest I
gave you know him and you know, maybe like a
president or two, you know, But yeah, I definitely think
that that would go over big with the audience and
we could talk about some fun stuff. You know. I
also worry about how people but look at the past, you.
Speaker 1: Know, Like I just gave you my opinion of the
way I see things now compared to what it used
to be. Not everybody has my bright, shiny viewpoint of
the past, you know, it's just not the way it is.
Speaker 2: So I don't know.
Speaker 1: I guess we could see. We could only see, you know.
I do feel like through the years it's a shame
that me and my father don't have a better relationship
because we accomplish so much, and we really don't. We
never celebrated it as a like as a team, you
know what I'm saying, And so I think that's kind
of terrible, especially when I think about my son, and
if I had the kind of success me and my
father had with my son, it would be all the time,
high fives, you know what I mean, Like it would
be nothing but good times.
Speaker 2: You know. So that's the aspect of it that I
wish was not the way it is. But for whatever reason,
it's that way.
Speaker 1: And it's not because I'm holding out or because I'm
harboring resentment. It's just because it's just it just hasn't
worked out for us in that way, you know, right. Yeah,
I don't want to go too deep into it. I
think people just wanted to know, like, what was the
latest I would love to have on my podcast? So
it would be so great, it would be good. It'd
be good, I think. So maybe even I would have Mikey.
Maybe that would off in the blow. Yeah, you'd have to.
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 1: I think he thinks like maybe I would like ambush
him or something like that.
Speaker 2: I don't think it would go that way at all.
I think it wouldn't because I would never do that, right,
you know, I don't know. I think I think people
get I think as they get older, they chill, but
they also get more stubborn. And I can just say
this from a fan. What I would want to hear
is exactly what you do with Mike is just the memories. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
for sure, for sure. You know, we'll see what happens,
We'll see what It's not too late.
Speaker 1: I'm not against. I would love to do it. Yeah,
you know, I would even go to him, right, yeah,
just nice way to do it. Go down there, go
to his farm down there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that'd be cool to check out. So I got
to follow up with Senior just because of that. And
this is a good question. This is actually a fan question.
I can't remember who asked us, but very good and
I wanted to throw it out there. Your favorite memory
with your dad besides the show or maybe personal with
the show. Favorite memory with Senior? Wow, believe it or not.
Speaker 1: Man, At an early age, he would take me for
rides on his motorcycle and I would help him work
on his motorcycles very like, you know, hand him a
ranch type thing once in a while. But we would
go for a ride. And I feel like when I
was young and I had this this awesome stars and stripes,
you know, like heavy metal flake helmet, you know, like
the full helmet, and I would wear that, and he
would take me for rides, you know, and I'd go
for a motorcycle ride at like I don't know, young
and that was to me, like the best thing ever,
you know. So that's like a memory that I remember
really thinking a lot of that, and it was something
we did together, and you know, we didn't growing up
wasn't the best, but it was those moments that like
I really remember and they made me feel special.
Speaker 2: I think, you know, because there's several moments in the
show too. Of course you guys are business partners. But
at the end of the day, oh, there were so
many times in the show that we had fun. We
had so much fun. Man, we laughed, we had the
same sense of humor, we did all the same dumb
stuff and and so we had just endless amounts of fun,
you know, for years and years, we really did. And
it was always like.
Speaker 1: You know, blowing something up, smash you had to smash something,
you know, it was like the that was like the
there was like the pressure valve just opened up, you know,
like you just burned off steam right there. And we
had a lot of fun doing that kind of stuff.
And we did that, whether there were cameras or not.
And it happened way before the show. You know, we
did so much crazy stuff in the steel business for years.
So that's just the way we are. And I'm not
like that so much anymore. I look back, I'm like, dude,
I was like a neanderthal back then.
Speaker 2: I really was. We all were. It was just the
way we were. Man.
Speaker 1: It was rough around the edges and everyone was like it,
and all my cousins and we all talked the same
and acted the same, said the same stuff. You know,
gotten fights, all that. M You know, it's good and
at times, man, you know.
Speaker 2: And again just as much as you know your dad
is known for getting angry and yelling and all that.
There's a lot of cases on the show where he's
very impressed with what you're doing and he says, he's like,
I'm very proud and I'm very proud of Michael and
that sort of thing. Like I think he deserves a
lot of credit for that. You know, Well, I don't
know if he does. I don't think he does. And
the only reason I say it is because like that's
just what you say and do when you're you're proud
of your It's just how it is like you do something,
you give it, there's a credit thing.
Speaker 1: It's like, well it was appreciated, but you follow what
I'm saying, right right, and I guess, and I guess
I don't think it was. He wasn't, thankless, never representing
that we had disagreements. We had a lot of fun.
We had a lot of disagreements and we had a
lot of fun. So you know, in that dynamic, yes,
there were times where he was very complimentary.
Speaker 2: You know, even I remember.
Speaker 1: I remember I was like fourteen and I was competing
in the nationals for bench press and I benched like
I don't know, like three thirty five or something like that,
and I broke like the state and national records in
that in my father was very I moved emotionally because
I had won, like it was an accomplishment and it was.
So you know, there's moments in my life with my
father that and my father never missed a football game.
I mean, you know, when I talk about like the
things that aren't so good, the flip side of it
is there was a lot of good things as well.
You know, my father drank until I was ten, but
after that he really tried hard and he showed up.
He loved to watch me play football, track and feel
everything every sport I played. He was always there. So
he was very committed from that perspective, you know. But
our dynamic was just one of a lot of tension
all the time. You know, it's always very tense. My
father's a complicated dude. If you haven't noticed, you know.
But but like I said before, I'm not like I
just want to be like whatever, whatever it is now
is what I want. I really like to close the
door on the pass with him, with any of the
things that maybe holding back any kind of relationship. I
just don't know how to do that exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that's what everyone would want to see,
and I hope for so, you know, we hope that
all works out. It's when you guys, let's get back
to some of the builds and that sort of thing.
Were there any bikes that you really did not enjoy
working on where you were like, god, that was a
real pain in the ass, or I mean you weren't
a fan of like one in particular if you had
to nail it down.
Speaker 1: No, No, you know there were projects that I was
a part of that maybe it wasn't my creative direction,
and things were getting done that I might not have done.
But there was so much going on I couldn't like,
you know, you pick your battles at that stage, so
you don't have something to say about everything, and you
just you're like, Okay, this is my project, but not
entirely that I.
Speaker 2: Can think of. There was nothing.
Speaker 1: Everything was like, you know, every project was unique and different,
and they came with their own challenges and yes, some
almost killed us, they really did, you know, because we
did a lot of crazy custom stuff and that you know,
for whatever reason, when you start putting it back together,
nothing fits every like everything needs a little you know,
something you know, and mostly that's not. It's like the
half the time that is true, though, and it depends
on your clearances.
Speaker 2: Your coatings adds up. You got your chrome layers, you
got your powder coat the powder coats too thick.
Speaker 1: You go to put it in and it's off by
a half inch. You're like, how's it off by a
half inch?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: So there's always that. But that's kind of like what
I was talking about before. That's the troubleshooting. How do
you fix this problem?
Speaker 2: Well, to follow up with that is there a bike
that you did that you're happy with, or maybe one
that could use a little work that you would love
to redesign. Now, you know, I don't really think so.
I don't ever.
Speaker 1: See a bike that I've built where I don't think
that it could be better.
Speaker 2: You gave it, you're all then, and that's the way
it is. No. I gave it my all then, and
I still think it could be better. Oh so you'd
think that there's always some improvement really always with all
of them, with all of them, really, you know the
Black Widow? Uh yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: I only say that because, like, I'm not looking at
it and picking it apart, right, I just always feel
like it could be better.
Speaker 2: That's my thought process. Are you a perfectionist? I think
a little bit. And that's helped me not to the point.
I don't look at these and.
Speaker 1: Go, oh, this always bothers me when I look at it, No,
because there's not a lot to there's not a lot
wrong with these bikes, And I guess and I don't think, like,
if you looked it over, you probably find zero wrong
with the lines from see here's the thing. For me,
it's about the three dimensional proportions. I've noticed that people
will build a theme bike and from the side it
looks great and you get behind it and it just
it's like lost. You lose it because you're like, this
looks terrible from this angle. With me and motorcycles, every
aspect of every view of the bike at any angle
has to look perfect. It can't have an awkward spot.
And so that's what I'm always working through. How do
we get rid of all the awkwardness and make this
thing beautiful? Because if you looked at a pile of
clay on a frame, a lot of people could do
a lot of different things, but this is what.
Speaker 2: I do, you see what I mean? And the endgame
is this, right, So and plus you know had deadlines
to meet, so there were probably things that maybe you
wanted to do but just didn't have time.
Speaker 1: That could be a factor at times. Yeah, I mean, look,
I've seen people build bikes and take four years and
the bike is maybe not my flavor. But I'm looking
at this thing and like they made all the bolts,
you know what I mean, Like they made custom application
bolts for it. So this is, you know, a four
year project. I couldn't deal with it. I wouldn't. I
wouldn't even want to do a four year project. Okay, honestly,
I need a like couple three four weeks. I get
the creative out of my system and I'm onto the
next project.
Speaker 2: That's what I need. I can't do this four year
long Now.
Speaker 1: If there was the right situation, like a car build,
and I was like being like a lead creative on it,
and there was a team, then that's that's not a
problem because I don't have to be chained to it
all the time. I just design it, I oversee it,
and we follow you know, we could do a follow
through and create.
Speaker 2: This beautiful work of art, which.
Speaker 1: I intend on doing more of. By the way, I
did that Zephyr. It was spectacular. Now it's sold and
I'm ready for the next project, and I got some
ideas about it. But I think my flavor is along
the lines of that Zephyr. I probably won't do another
Zephyr unless someone wanted me to, because I feel like
I did everything I could to that car and still
respected the original design. But I like that Art Deco's thirties.
The Art Deco thirties look is it for me? I
can't look at sixties cars and muscle cars.
Speaker 2: I could do stuff with them. There's no limitations.
Speaker 1: But right now, if you're talking just personal like I'm
a fix I'm fixated on these cars that you know,
they are looking special for the time period, and there's
a handful of them out there that are good examples
of something I could take and do, kind of like
I did with the Zephyr, where you would look at
it and it's just elevated, and so that's kind of
what I'm looking to do next. But you know, that's
only if if it's the right opportunity. You know, something
about that time period, like the thirties, even the architecture
back then in the early nineteen hundreds, they just you
got to Philly, you know, I love Philly.
Speaker 2: Look, Phillies fantastic. You look at City Hall, you know
it's eighteen hundreds, but then you look at the current
ones and they're just there's nothing on them. No that
architect it's just too expensive to build like that, and
they just wanted this quicker, faster. Philly has some of
the best architecture. It's spectacular, amazing, it really is. I'm
always blown away when I go there. I love the buildings.
You know, I could look at City Hall because I
live down there in South that's a York of art
right there, and I would fly my drone there. It's
legal to fly your drone. And they got the William
Penn statue out there, and it's like, these guys put
that statue five hundred feet up in the air twelve tons.
I think its something crazy with no real machinery like
we have. Yeah, right, and you look at the design
on buildings, it's incredible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you all those all those all the all
those skilled workers were from Europe predominantly doing all that
fine stone work, and all you those people don't even
exist anymore. I mean there's small groups of them here
and there, and that stuff is so expensive. That was
like common for people to have stuff like that. Think
about it. Even when you go look at New York City.
Look at all those buildings, gargoyles carved down the line.
Speaker 2: And then the pictures of them with no harnesses. These
guys they were losing a few every project. You know,
it's real deal. Especially bridge workers. Man, crazy Gary got
it the worst. And the wind picks up a lot.
You know, you're done. So this is a good follow
up to that. So, if you had to work with
a designer living or dead, not in the biking world,
right to do any sort of custom bike based on
who you know the past, who you're inspired by, Who
would you love to team up with on a bike,
like maybe Raff Lauren or something like that. You know,
that just jumps out at me. He's also a car
guy and he's got some of the sickest cars on
the planet, so you know, I know he knows what's
good and eats Raff Lauren. You know. So I think
like clothing designers, I like crossover. I'm not.
Speaker 1: You know, people look at me and go, he's a
motorcycle guy. I'm really not. I mean, I love the opportunity,
I love the platform. It's a great expression. But I'm
a designer. I see these guys doing this stuff, and
that's what speaks to me. It's not I don't care
what medium you're operating in. If you're an artist and
a designer and you're doing something that I think is killer,
that's all that matters.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, what kind of design would you do
with him? Oh? Geez, I would do so.
Speaker 1: I would build a bike to match his Bugatti he's
got like a forty million dollar Bugatti.
Speaker 2: It's just spectacular. I would build a bike. Color isn't
maybe like a dark I'm trying to think of the
color right now. The guy's got a lot of he's
probably a couple of really well, he's got a really
well known coop that's sick.
Speaker 1: Got have to look at it. You could throw it
up here maybe if you look online. But when you
see what I'm saying, and then I.
Speaker 2: Would just do it up like that. It would be
a lot of sheet metal, right, That's cool. Yeah, I
want to come back here to the podcast a little
bit because obviously people want to see more guests and
that sort of thing, and I thought, this is an
interesting question. This is from an I don't think they
want to see more guys. They just want Mikey. Just
want Mike. I'm serious. They don't want me, they want Mike.
They don't. I think they just they want me and Mikey.
I think I think you know that's it seems, wouldn't
because I mean, I'm telling you, I'm sitting here behind
the scenes watching everything just cracking up and then putting
it together is a lot of fun too. Yeah, I
think so it's a good man, it's a good thing.
But living or dead? Who would you want on the podcast?
Maybe we do both living and dead. Who would you
want to have on the podcast to interview, to talk to,
pick their mind anything.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's interesting. I thought that was a great question.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Living, I mean that's a broad question. Same dead.
It's like, there's so many people I like to have
on here man and talk to. There's so many people
like personally, yeah, like had an impact on your life
for the role model growing up? Anyone? Oh, my grandfather. Yeah,
I'd like to have my grandfather on here. So your
my mom's dad, barm my dad's dad too. Any any
of my grandparents would be great. They're all gone, you know.
Were they around during the start of the show or
they passed before? Yeah, no, none of them, So they
never got to know. They never got to see oh
well yeah, yeah no, So you'd like to bring them
back and just in general, you know, just to hear
your stories proudly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, my mother's parents were. They were around a lot
when I was growing up.
Speaker 2: So cool.
Speaker 1: They were divorced, but they would come at separate times
and they were holidays and they were like.
Speaker 2: A big part of our lives. My father's parents less so,
but we were.
Speaker 1: We were my mother's parents only grandkids. So my father
had sisters and they all had kids, so on that
side there was a big workload of kids for grandparents.
Speaker 2: To be a part of, you see what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: And so maybe we saw my my father's side less,
but certainly my grandpa Leonardo, he was were you know,
he did everything and I always feel like maybe some
of my skills are really come from him in some
capacity because he could masonry, he could do any kind
of carpentry. I mean, he just did. He was pretty
much could do anything. He put an extension on our
house once, and I think I talked about this in
the past, but he did pretty much the whole thing
by himself, virtually pouring the foundation by hand. Just tough
old Italian guy and worked really hard, and you know,
he had a skill set. Now he wasn't a bike builder,
but he was a builder just the same. You know,
my mother's maid name is Leonardo, and that was Paul Leonardo,
her husband, I mean, her father. And then my father's
side is more German, but my father's half Italian, So
my father's mother was all Italian, OK, gotcha, and then
my father's father's all German, so on that side he's
like half and half.
Speaker 2: Now my mother's side is all Italian. Gotcha.
Speaker 1: So I'm like seventy five percent Italian, twenty five percent German.
Speaker 2: Figure out it works, you know. That's why I talk
with my hands a lot. You're animated. I'm a little animated, no,
you know, but the features, you know, I think a
lot of people would say that I look like my father,
so more maybe German features, but I think a good mix.
You've seen some throwback pictures and you look identical to
or your dad looks like you now, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
I know. Yeah, well you mean now I look like
him when he was in his fifties or when we
were young, when you were young, like around the same age,
the same Yeah. He has a Merchant Marines picture from
when he was like, I don't know, nineteen twenty, and
when I was at that age, we look very similar. Yeah,
that's cool. What are you liking about the podcast, Paul,
because you could be doing anything, and you know, we've
been doing these episodes and I can tell that you
you mentioned this earlier too, but it's just a chance
to really be yourself and open up. I mean, you
clearly enjoy doing these, right, I think so, yeah, I
enjoy it. It's the you know I do.
Speaker 1: I enjoy it. I enjoy the conversations where they can go.
It is creating content for me, which I like to
create content that becomes a thing in your life, you know,
not just a bike builder, but someone who creates content
on an overall basis that becomes kind of part of
your lifestyle.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: Making television and making content really became very quickly a
thing for me, right, first season of American Chopper, and
I'm thinking, okay, well this is this is a new path.
This is exciting, and you learn to make television and
make content and you think creatively, and you know, the
show was really created by us in its entirety. We
had a production company and they did their job, especially
on the back end. But like when it came to
the best part of the show, it's almost like what
people like about me and Mikey, it's just that's American Chopper.
Me and Mikey will always be American Chopper in some capacity.
Speaker 2: So when we talk in our rhetoric, it's like we're
kind of going back in time a little bit, or
at least for the audience, we're just talking to each
other how we talk to each other, you know. Yeah,
it's cool. Have you ever thought of the possibility, and
I've thrown this at you before, of doing a live
podcast opening up have some studio audience. Yeah, I think so, man.
Speaker 1: I like live audience participation. Well that takes you know,
I can't even get vin here. You've got to pile
people in here for you know. I'm for it. I
would do stuff like that. I would even do live
just to do a live podcast. I think straight, like
straight to the audience. You get Mikey in here and
tell everyone before him.
Speaker 2: Oh man, that'd be great. Yeah, heve got to line
that up. Yeah, yeah, we should do something like that.
I think it'd be great. I like the live thing though,
we can this would be perfect. Set it up in
like a half circle here, mm hmmm, yeah, I think
be sweet. We talked about the you know, people you
would want to work with, designers and that sort of thing.
If there's a brand right now, right like if you
could build a bike or they come to you, uh
to build something, who would you want to collaborate with. Mmm,
that's really good that you think you could just give
them a killer project. Well, I could give anyone a
killer project, but one in partic that you're a fan of,
Like they don't you know, are aren't reaching out you're
a fan of where you're like, hey, I want to
do this for you because I think I could crush
it for you. Yeah. Yeah, And I know that's anyone,
But I don't know, you know, I think.
Speaker 1: Of music obviously, you know, I don't know why music
is like the bigger, biggest.
Speaker 2: Mover of soul, you know, like a band.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like like you two or one of these guys
like that. I would love an opportunity to build a
bike that represented their body of work, you know, because
that's a big opportunity right there.
Speaker 2: And that's like a.
Speaker 1: Big I like stuff like that, like say, well, how
could you ever do that? These guys are legends, they've
been around forever. Well, this is what I do, right
this is they make music and they move the world,
and I build things that represent, especially in the form
of two wheels, that could represent their body of work.
And you know it could do that through a conversation
and being a fan, you know, just understanding it. What
is this going to look like? What's the purpose of it?
Why are we doing it? You know, what's the direction?
I listened to the I listened to the client or individual,
and then I just infuse what they told me as
if I was them and they were the bike builder.
Speaker 2: Gotcha. Now you had mentioned earlier about the cars. Is
that something that you would want to do for your
next project?
Speaker 1: Cars are so they take so much time, dude, And
you're right this it bugs me a little bit. I'm
not I need I need pressure.
Speaker 2: You need it. Yeah, I'm still I'm fifty and I
still need to Like I do my you know, I
cram for the test the midnight the night before.
Speaker 1: So not really, but kind of. I like the pressure.
I like to get it done. I like to have
a deadline that's almost impossible. That pushes it over the
finish line and gets me going.
Speaker 2: And you feel better under that pressure. Oh way, don't
give me time, dude. All right, you're gonna have a
hard time to getting it done. I'm gonna have hard
time getting it done if I have all the time
in the world. Well, plus you probably go back and
like maybe even like want to change things or reconsider,
whereas a deadline, it's.
Speaker 1: Gonna no, no, no, I never do that. You just go, yeah,
I just go. Man, that's one thing I will say.
You know, people are like, oh, you know this has
been like all the all these years process.
Speaker 2: No, very early on. I got it. I knew what
I wanted when I put it there. It was what
I wanted.
Speaker 1: I never look back and go, I shouldn't have done that.
Is that how you are with like life decisions?
Speaker 2: Do you are? You pretty quick with certain things? With
other things, I'm the worst. You just yeah, can't. I
just can't decide. I guess it depends on the situation.
It does it really, it really does.
Speaker 1: With certain things I'm on it like doom Doom, doom boom,
But other stuff, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm the same way, cause you know, similar similar
to what you do. And you know, I have to
be creative. I have to put together a lot of
creative videos the editing process, and I'm the same way.
If you give me too much time, I'm gonna have
other stuff pile up and it's like I can't give
it my focus. Whereas someone's like I need this at
the end of the month. Well, I'm going to dedicate,
like laid out every all the time. I have to
get it to that point, and I work better that way,
so I get where you're coming from.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I could procrastinate at times on things, for sure.
I think it's part of my whatever I have, whatever
letters that I have.
Speaker 2: Right I don't know if I have anything else for
you today, though, I thought this is a great deep
dive into the past and the show. It's good. It's
good conversations. I like it.
Speaker 1: I do like this type of conversation. You know, me
and Mikey wouldn't have this kind of conversation together. It's
just the dynamics different. You know, we have our chill
talk and fun. But this is good because well yeah,
but you're also you're What I like about this is
you're coming at it from.
Speaker 2: A fan stamp exactly, so you're kind.
Speaker 1: Of standing in the gap for every person who loves
American Chopper, And I think that's what that's why this works,
because I'm talking to the audience and the people who
have been loyal and have followed us for so many
years in the way of Nate Stewart, you know, so, uh,
I think that's I think it's perfect and we should
do more of this because it's comfed and frankly, it's
very easy on me. You know, when I'm doing a
podcast and I'm the one who's has to keep things
moving a little bit, it's more work. This to me
is just fielding questions and coming up with you know,
getting it to go from here to you know, out,
And that's pretty much it.
Speaker 2: And I think that's what a podcast is, and I
like it.
Speaker 1: Look, were giving a mixed up look here, right, we
did me, you and Michael, Me and Michael quite a
few times. I've had some other guests, and then this
is a whole new thing, just me and you, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I even thought we can do stuff where maybe
I could watch an episode myself. I'll figure out which
one and I'll talk through it. I'll just commentate a
little bit about what I'm thinking, how I'm feeling, what
was going on at the time. I think maybe I'd
be interested in that, and maybe people would be too, you.
Speaker 2: Know, yeah, I think definitely, because just you and Mikey
watching that one from I'm watching you guys watch yourself.
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And to me that was
so cool because it's like a step back in time.
And I think we're going to do more of those
where you guys rewatch some episodes because the fans would
love that. The fans love it. I would love that, man.
Uh you know, I got to tell you. Even that
guy Bert who's following me, Now, what's the comedian? Yeah, dude,
I want to. I want to. I want to have
him on my podcast.
Speaker 1: I look at that guy. I've seen clips. I don't
really watch other podcasts. I really don't, but I see
clips because I'm you know, scrolling, and they pop up,
and uh.
Speaker 2: Man, I like that guy. I see who he is.
Speaker 1: I see it, and I think me and him would
get along really well. You know, he's got he's like
wearing his emotions honestly, but he's like, he's a real dude,
And I like that about it.
Speaker 2: Down to earth for sure. I like people who are real.
He doesn't hold back any punches. And you start following
you you mentioned.
Speaker 1: That, yeah, which I was flattered by that because you know,
pretty cool. But you know, that's another thing I've found
through the gears that a lot of people of great
notoriety have been huge fans of American Chopper through the
years and we've had an impact on everyone, every aspect
of culture, you name it, it's it's it's had an
impact overall, you know. So I can have some fun
with some great guests I'd like to get. I'd like
to get more guests.
Speaker 2: Going to you know, THEOV we've talked about. Yeah, THEO
is great.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's these guys are monsters now though you can't
even go near them.
Speaker 2: You got to, like you know, yeah, they won't even
let you on the same block. Yeah, it's crazy how
podcasting has just taken off too, as with Joe Rogan
and all the comedians, all the comedians, they just they
just started doing podcasts and they doubled up some of
them and that's the rest is history. Andrew Schultz have
you heard of him. He's a great young comedian with
a big podcast. Okay, you know. And and there's a
lot of guys to Paul where where I feel like
you have a lot of similarities with you, where you'd
get on a podcast and I feel like it'd be
just fun and fun. Yeah. I like it too. I
like the idea that.
Speaker 1: Just mixing it up with these guys, you know. So
we'll see I would go on other podcasts.
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, there you go, but there you go.
Everyone an invitation, but also please have me on your PC.
Also self invite. But I think Paul has been uh,
you know, it's fun doing these, It's great, this is
what the audience likes. I'm really glad you've trusted me
to come on here and do this for you and
hopefully I'm representing the audience. Well, we'll talk about it afterwards.
We'll see how far this goes. Like I'm grading you
as we go through. How do how do I do it? Today?
I thought it was great. Like I said, man, I
feel like you you're you're.
Speaker 1: Standing in the gap of the fan base and the
people who are interested in hearing these kind of conversations.
Speaker 2: And I went through and picked some comments because there's
some good ones. And that's the whole goal is I'm
trying to get the fans perspective and I am a fan,
so that we're it's some things I've never asked you before.
You are. I like it. It's a funny show, like
but not only that, it's got the humor, it's got
everything we talked about. But I do like seeing the
seriousness of it. Too, like meeting the deadlines and all that. Yeah,
very well balanced, it is, Yeah, it really is. So
it's interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the holds up, which is good, good
for us because you know, it's kind of timeless.
Speaker 2: It's not dated. No, it's old.
Speaker 1: It's old, but it's not dated. I don't think it'll
ever be there. It's still fun, it's still great. You
don't get that kind of humor anymore, No, you don't,
you know, very slapsticky, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, good, all right, Well listen, guys, this has been great.
Me and Nate over here just talking about the show.
He's coming up with a lot of questions from the audience,
which I think this is a good kind of back
and forth and.
Speaker 2: I've enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: So I appreciate you watching the podcast, and stay tuned
for the next one.