WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Imagine you're eating breakfast. You know, you're sitting at your

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<v Speaker 1>kitchen table, just pouring a cup of coffee, maybe watching

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<v Speaker 1>the morning news.

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<v Speaker 2>Right. Just a totally normal mundane Tuesday.

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<v Speaker 1>Exactly. You leave for work. You come home. You sleep.

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<v Speaker 1>You're just living your entire normal daily life in this

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<v Speaker 1>rental house.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>But now imagine that for 16 years, every single tenant

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<v Speaker 1>who moved in and out of that house, like every

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<v Speaker 1>person who walked across that kitchen floor, was living directly

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<v Speaker 1>above a human skeleton.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, man.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, just hidden right there in the crawlspace beneath their feet.

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<v Speaker 1>And today, we're taking a deep dive into a mystery

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<v Speaker 1>that literally sat beneath people's floorboards for over a decade

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<v Speaker 1>and a half.

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<v Speaker 2>Unnoticed, just completely unnoticed while the world kept turning right

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<v Speaker 2>above it.

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<v Speaker 1>Exactly. That's wild. Welcome to the deep dive, everyone. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>let's unpack this because today we are taking a microscope

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<v Speaker 1>to a single incredibly dense story from local news in Alabama.

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<v Speaker 2>Specifically, this is from ABC 3340. published by Hannah Bazanov

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<v Speaker 2>back in February of 2026. Right.

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<v Speaker 1>And our mission today isn't just to read a news article.

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<v Speaker 1>We are going to deconstruct a massive 38-year timeline.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we want to map the whole journey of a

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<v Speaker 2>single cold case to understand the, well, the almost unimaginable

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<v Speaker 2>evolution of forensic science over that time.

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<v Speaker 1>Because we're going to see how investigators moved from a

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<v Speaker 1>system that was, you know, essentially blind, relying on paper

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<v Speaker 1>flyers and just absolute guesswork, To.

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<v Speaker 2>This incredibly modern era of cellular mapping and forensic genetic

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<v Speaker 2>genealogy that can literally reach backward through time.

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<v Speaker 1>It's basically time travel.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>But to truly appreciate that technological triumph of 2026, we

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<v Speaker 1>have to start by anchoring ourselves in the analog world

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<v Speaker 1>where this all began, right?

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<v Speaker 2>100%. Because every single DNA database, every genetic sequence we're

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<v Speaker 2>going to talk about today, it's all ultimately rooted in

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<v Speaker 2>one very human, very tragic day in 1988. Yeah. We

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<v Speaker 2>have to understand the void that's created when a person

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<v Speaker 2>just vanishes.

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<v Speaker 1>So let's set that scene. It is Tuesday, November 15th, 1988.

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<v Speaker 1>And we are in a neighborhood called Northeast Lake.

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<v Speaker 2>In Birmingham, Alabama. Right.

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<v Speaker 1>And we're looking at the life of a 21-year-old young

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<v Speaker 1>man named Bryant Keith Bates.

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<v Speaker 2>Bryant is at his family home. He gets dressed. He

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<v Speaker 2>heads out the door. And, well, the information we have

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<v Speaker 2>tells us he was on his way to attend a

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<v Speaker 2>friend's funeral.

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<v Speaker 1>A friend's funeral.

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<v Speaker 2>Mm-hmm.

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<v Speaker 1>And that is it. That is literally the last verified

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<v Speaker 1>moment his family ever saw him.

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<v Speaker 2>He never came home from that funeral.

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<v Speaker 1>Which, I mean, the psychological toll of an ambiguous loss

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<v Speaker 1>like that is just, it's incredibly difficult to quantify.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, it's paralyzing because when someone dies, there's a body.

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<v Speaker 1>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a ritual.

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<v Speaker 1>We have a funeral, which he was literally going to.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly. There's a definitive end that allows the grieving process

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<v Speaker 2>to actually begin. But when someone simply evaporates into the ether...

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<v Speaker 2>The family is plunged into this state of suspended animation.

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<v Speaker 1>Because the human brain is just desperate for closure, right?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>We need a narrative that makes sense.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes. And without it, you are trapped in a loop

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<v Speaker 2>of endless speculation. Did he run away? Was he hurt?

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<v Speaker 2>Is he coming back tomorrow?

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<v Speaker 1>I can't even fathom the torture of that. It's like

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<v Speaker 1>someone pressing pause on a VHS tape, you know? Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>But the rest of the world just keeps playing.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a really good way to put it.

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<v Speaker 1>So the hours turn into a night. The night turns

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<v Speaker 1>into the next day. And suddenly... The family is calling

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<v Speaker 1>the Birmingham Police Department to file a missing person report.

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<v Speaker 2>Right. But there is a detail here that makes this

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<v Speaker 2>particular disappearance even more chilling, I think.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the family and the police were entirely aligned very

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<v Speaker 1>early on. Like, right out of the gate, they both

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<v Speaker 1>suspected murder.

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<v Speaker 2>Which is unusual. What would make them jump straight to

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<v Speaker 2>foul play instead of assuming, you know, a 21-year-old just

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<v Speaker 2>ran off to start a new life?

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<v Speaker 1>That's the big question. And it usually comes down to

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<v Speaker 1>behavioral changes.

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<v Speaker 2>Right.

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<v Speaker 1>And context.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly. Investigators in 1988, they're going to look at Bryant's life. Like,

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<v Speaker 2>did he take his bank book? Did he pack a bag?

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<v Speaker 1>Did you take a car?

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<v Speaker 2>Right. If a person leaves everything they need to survive behind,

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<v Speaker 2>that is your first massive red flag.

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<v Speaker 1>Plus, you have to look at where he was going.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>A funeral?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes. An event heavily steeped in social obligation and, frankly,

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<v Speaker 2>emotional gravity.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. A person who intends to voluntarily walk away from

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<v Speaker 1>their life. doesn't usually choose to do it on the

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<v Speaker 1>way to honor a deceased friend.

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<v Speaker 2>The context heavily suggests he fully intended to be at

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<v Speaker 2>that service and to return home afterward.

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<v Speaker 1>Which just adds this incredibly heavy, almost suffocating layer of

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<v Speaker 1>tragic irony to his final hours.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he was already in a state of mourning.

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<v Speaker 1>Right. He was dressed for a solemn occasion, grappling with

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<v Speaker 1>the loss of a friend, and on that very same day,

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<v Speaker 1>he basically shares their fate.

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<v Speaker 2>But here's the thing. When the police agree with the

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<v Speaker 2>family that he was likely murdered, what could they actually

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<v Speaker 2>do about it in 1988?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, very little, unfortunately. And that is the paralyzing

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<v Speaker 1>reality of policing in that era.

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<v Speaker 2>Suspicion is basically just a hypothesis.

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<v Speaker 1>Right. Without a crime scene, without a drop of blood,

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<v Speaker 1>without a witness.

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<v Speaker 2>And without a body. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>You have absolutely nothing to process. Like in 1988, there

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<v Speaker 1>were no cell phones pinging off local towers.

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<v Speaker 2>You couldn't just pull up a radius of his last

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<v Speaker 2>known location.

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<v Speaker 1>There were no CCTV cameras on every street corner or

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<v Speaker 1>ATM vestibule to track his movements.

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<v Speaker 2>Digital footprints just didn't exist.

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<v Speaker 1>So they were entirely reliant on the physical description of

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<v Speaker 1>what he was wearing.

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<v Speaker 2>Precisely. That physical description becomes the entire foundation of the investigation.

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<v Speaker 1>It's literally the only net they can cast.

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<v Speaker 2>Right. And the missing persons report notes that he was

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<v Speaker 2>wearing a white shirt trimmed with blue and a pair

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<v Speaker 2>of plaid pants.

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<v Speaker 1>Plaid pants. It's so specific.

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<v Speaker 2>It is. And in the absence of the actual person,

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<v Speaker 2>that hyper-specific outfit essentially becomes a proxy for Bryant Keith Bates.

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<v Speaker 1>The police distribute that description via teletype. They print it

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<v Speaker 1>on physical flyers.

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<v Speaker 2>And they just ask troll officers to keep their eyes

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<v Speaker 2>peeled for plaid pants and a blue trimmed shirt.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like the clothing becomes a uniform for the missing.

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<v Speaker 1>You just pray someone remembers seeing that specific pattern of plaid.

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<v Speaker 2>But nobody did. No.

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<v Speaker 1>For 16 long, agonizing years, the Bates family had nothing

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<v Speaker 1>but that mental image of his final outfit.

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<v Speaker 2>Their world was effectively paused on that one frozen frame

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<v Speaker 2>of him walking out the door.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, the rest of the world just moved on. The

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<v Speaker 1>80s turned into the 90s, the millennium turned over, and

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<v Speaker 1>they were still trapped in November 1988.

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<v Speaker 2>Until a Tuesday morning in 2004.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, when the story finally unpauses in, well, The most

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<v Speaker 1>gruesome way imaginable.

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<v Speaker 2>This brings us to the discovery phase. It's November 22nd, 2004.

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<v Speaker 1>We are still in Birmingham, Alabama, but we have shifted neighborhoods.

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<v Speaker 2>Right. We are now in Southeast Lake.

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<v Speaker 1>Which is close to where he disappeared, right? Because he

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<v Speaker 1>lived in Northeast Lake.

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<v Speaker 2>Very close. What's fascinating here is the geography. It's critical

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<v Speaker 2>because it tells a story of proximity.

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<v Speaker 1>He didn't vanish across state lines.

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<v Speaker 2>No, he wasn't taken on a long cross-country journey. He

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<v Speaker 2>was kept incredibly close to his own neighborhood this entire time.

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<v Speaker 1>And he was hidden so well that it took an exterminator.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, just performing a completely mundane, routine morning service call

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<v Speaker 2>at a rental home.

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<v Speaker 1>Just doing his everyday job, and he breaks the case open.

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<v Speaker 2>The exterminator is navigating the crawlspace beneath this house, and

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<v Speaker 2>he just stumbles upon a human skeleton.

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<v Speaker 1>Just right there.

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<v Speaker 2>The remains were concealed inside an old coal bin located

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<v Speaker 2>within that crawlspace.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, I have to stop here. Because I am stuck

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<v Speaker 1>on the logistics of this.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a lot to process.

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<v Speaker 1>My brain refuses to accept how this happens. Can you

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<v Speaker 1>explain the architecture here?

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<v Speaker 2>Sure.

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<v Speaker 1>Because I'm picturing a modern basement. And I don't understand

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<v Speaker 1>how a body sits under a residential home where people

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<v Speaker 1>are actively living for 16 years.

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<v Speaker 2>Right. Without anyone noticing. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Without a single person noticing a smell or without another

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<v Speaker 1>maintenance worker finding it sooner.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, to understand the logistics, you have to look at

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<v Speaker 2>the historical architecture of older homes, particularly in the American South.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>A crawl space is not a basement. It's a shallow,

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<v Speaker 2>unfinished area between the dirt ground and the first floor

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<v Speaker 2>of the house.

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<v Speaker 1>Like you can't stand up in it.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly. It's often just a few feet high, mainly there

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<v Speaker 2>to allow access to plumbing and wiring.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, I see.

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<v Speaker 2>But specifically... A coal bin within that crawlspace is a

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<v Speaker 2>relic of an entirely abandoned era of home heating.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, from when people actually used coal furnaces.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes. Before natural gas and electric heating became standard, coal

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<v Speaker 2>would be delivered via a chute into these reinforced enclosed

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<v Speaker 2>bins under the house.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so they're built to hold dirty stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>By the 1980s and certainly by 2004, these bins were

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<v Speaker 2>totally obsolete.

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<v Speaker 1>Nobody was using them. Nobody.

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<v Speaker 2>They were dark, forgotten, enclosed structures designed to hold dirt

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<v Speaker 2>and fuel. They were completely disconnected from the daily living

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<v Speaker 2>areas of the house.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's essentially a pre-made hidden tomb that nobody has

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<v Speaker 1>reason to ever look inside.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly. It's like something out of an Edgar Allan Poe

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<v Speaker 2>story just buried under the floorboards.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>And the environment of a coal bin is also somewhat

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<v Speaker 2>isolated from the elements, which can impact how remains decompose,

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<v Speaker 2>potentially minimizing the disruption to the tenants above.

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<v Speaker 1>So there wouldn't necessarily be a massive odor in the

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<v Speaker 1>living room.

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<v Speaker 2>Right. Furthermore, a crawl space is a place of avoidance.

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<v Speaker 2>Tenants do not go down there.

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<v Speaker 1>I definitely wouldn't go down into a dark crawl space.

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<v Speaker 2>Landlords only go down there if a pipe bursts. It

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<v Speaker 2>is a space designed to be ignored.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so if we reverse engineer the crime... based on

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<v Speaker 1>that specific location. What does this tell us about the

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<v Speaker 1>person who put him there?

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<v Speaker 2>It implies a terrifying degree of local knowledge and access.

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<v Speaker 1>Because you don't just randomly pick a crawl space.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly. You do not drag a body into the crawl

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<v Speaker 2>space of a random residential house in the middle of

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<v Speaker 2>the day.

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<v Speaker 1>No way.

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<v Speaker 2>It requires time, privacy, and opportunity. This suggests the killer

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<v Speaker 2>likely had a direct connection to that specific property in 1980. Oh, wow.

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<v Speaker 1>Like they lived there.

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<v Speaker 2>Perhaps they lived there. Perhaps they were the landlord. Perhaps

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<v Speaker 2>they were a contractor working on it while it was

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<v Speaker 2>vacant between tenants.

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<v Speaker 1>They knew the coal bin was there.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes. They knew it was an obsolete space that no

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<v Speaker 2>one would check, and they knew it would buy them

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<v Speaker 2>time to escape detection.

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<v Speaker 1>They simply couldn't have known it would buy them a

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<v Speaker 1>full 16 years.

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<v Speaker 2>Right. But finding a skeleton is only the first hurdle.

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<v Speaker 2>An exterminator can find the bones, but they can't tell

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<v Speaker 2>you whose bones they are.

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<v Speaker 1>Exactly. That shifts the entire burden onto the medical and

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<v Speaker 1>forensic professionals.

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<v Speaker 2>And this brings us to the fascinating and often misunderstood

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<v Speaker 2>process of reconstructing a human identity from what is left

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<v Speaker 2>behind in the dirt.

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<v Speaker 1>So the remains are carefully extracted and transported to the

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<v Speaker 1>Jefferson County Coroner and Medical Examiner's office.

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<v Speaker 2>And this is where we see a crucial division of

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<v Speaker 2>scientific labor. The remains are inspected by two distinct types

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<v Speaker 2>of specialists.

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<v Speaker 1>Right. A forensic pathologist and a forensic anthropologist. Let's break

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<v Speaker 1>those two roles down because I think a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>people just assume the medical examiner does everything.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a common misconception.

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<v Speaker 1>What is the difference between what the pathologist is looking

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<v Speaker 1>for versus the anthropologist?

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<v Speaker 2>It is the difference between asking how someone died versus

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<v Speaker 2>who they were in life.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>The forensic pathologist is a medical doctor. Their primary objective

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<v Speaker 2>is to determine the cause and manner of death.

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<v Speaker 1>Even with just a skeleton?

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<v Speaker 2>Even with a skeletonized body, they are looking for trauma.

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<v Speaker 2>They are examining the bones for signs of sharp force trauma,

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<v Speaker 2>like knife nicks on the ribs.

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<v Speaker 1>Or blunt force trauma.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly, like depressed fractures on the skull. In this specific case,

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<v Speaker 2>the pathologist's findings were grim but unequivocal.

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<v Speaker 1>They found a gunshot wound to the head.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes.

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<v Speaker 1>But how exactly do you determine a gunshot wound on

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<v Speaker 1>a dry skull after 16 years? Like, how do you

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<v Speaker 1>know it wasn't just crushed by a rock?

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<v Speaker 2>Bone is a dynamic material, and it reacts to high-velocity

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<v Speaker 2>impact in very specific, predictable ways.

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<v Speaker 1>How so?

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<v Speaker 2>When a bullet strikes a skull, it doesn't just punch

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<v Speaker 2>a clean hole. It creates radiating fracture lines, much like

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<v Speaker 2>a stone hitting a pane of glass.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, I see.

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<v Speaker 2>Furthermore, the pathologist looks for something called beveling.

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<v Speaker 1>Beveling.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. When a bullet enters the skull, the hole on

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<v Speaker 2>the outer table of the bone is smaller and cleaner,

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<v Speaker 2>but as it pushes through the bone, it blasts out

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<v Speaker 2>a cone-shaped crater on the inside of the skull.

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<v Speaker 1>Like it blows out the back.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly. That is called internal beveling, and it proves the

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<v Speaker 2>trajectory was inward.

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<v Speaker 1>And if there's an exit wound?

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<v Speaker 2>The opposite happens. External beveling. By reading these fractures and craters,

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<v Speaker 2>the pathologist can definitively state that this person was shot.

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<v Speaker 1>Declaring the manner of death a homicide.

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00:12:41.909 --> 00:12:44.490
<v Speaker 2>Yes. But they still have a John Doe on the table.

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<v Speaker 1>And this is where the anthropologist steps in to answer

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<v Speaker 1>the who. Yes.

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<v Speaker 2>A forensic anthropologist does not typically determine the cause of death.

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<v Speaker 2>Their expertise is in osteology, the study of bones. Their

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<v Speaker 2>job is to extract a biological profile from the skeleton.

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<v Speaker 2>They want to determine the deceased's age at the time

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<v Speaker 2>of death, their biological sex, their living stature or height,

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<v Speaker 2>and their ancestral background.

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<v Speaker 1>I have always wondered about the actual mechanics of this.

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<v Speaker 1>How do you measure a pile of bones on a

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<v Speaker 1>table and confidently say, this person was 5 foot 10

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<v Speaker 1>inches tall?

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00:13:17.710 --> 00:13:22.190
<v Speaker 2>It relies on decades of anatomical data and mathematical regression formulas.

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00:13:22.210 --> 00:13:22.830
<v Speaker 1>Okay, math.

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00:13:22.950 --> 00:13:26.009
<v Speaker 2>The most reliable way to determine stature is by measuring

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<v Speaker 2>the long bones of the legs, specifically the femur or

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<v Speaker 2>thigh bone, And the tibia, the shin bone.

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00:13:32.070 --> 00:13:33.350
<v Speaker 1>Because they make up most of your height.

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00:13:33.590 --> 00:13:37.830
<v Speaker 2>Exactly. These bones correlate very closely with a person's overall height.

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00:13:38.370 --> 00:13:42.110
<v Speaker 2>The anthropologist uses a specialized tool called an osteometric board

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00:13:42.509 --> 00:13:45.190
<v Speaker 2>to get a precise measurement of the femur down to

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00:13:45.210 --> 00:13:45.769
<v Speaker 2>the millimeter.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, down to the millimeter.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes. They then plug that measurement into a formula that

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00:13:51.340 --> 00:13:54.759
<v Speaker 2>accounts for sex and ancestry, and it yields an estimated

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<v Speaker 2>height range. Wow. And in this case, they pinpointed the

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<v Speaker 2>height at approximately 5'10.

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<v Speaker 1>That is incredible. And what about age and ancestry? How

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00:14:02.600 --> 00:14:05.000
<v Speaker 1>do you read that from a 16-year-old skeleton?

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00:14:05.639 --> 00:14:09.440
<v Speaker 2>Age is determined by looking at growth and degeneration. For

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00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:13.179
<v Speaker 2>a young adult, the anthropologist looks at epiphyseal fusion.

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00:14:13.620 --> 00:14:14.519
<v Speaker 1>Which is what exactly?

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00:14:14.600 --> 00:14:17.419
<v Speaker 2>Essentially, whether the ends of the bones have fully fused

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00:14:17.460 --> 00:14:20.279
<v Speaker 2>to the shafts. This happens at very predictable ages as

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00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:20.769
<v Speaker 2>we grow up.

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00:14:20.980 --> 00:14:22.179
<v Speaker 1>Oh, like growth plates closing.

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00:14:22.460 --> 00:14:26.110
<v Speaker 2>Precisely. They also look at the cubic symphysis, the joint

341
00:14:26.129 --> 00:14:27.750
<v Speaker 2>where the two halves of the pelvis meet.

342
00:14:28.110 --> 00:14:28.970
<v Speaker 1>And what does that tell them?

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00:14:29.370 --> 00:14:32.750
<v Speaker 2>The surface of that joint changes from billowy and ridged

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00:14:32.789 --> 00:14:35.820
<v Speaker 2>in youth to flat and pitted in older adulthood.

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00:14:36.080 --> 00:14:37.629
<v Speaker 1>Oh, wow. So it literally wears down.

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00:14:37.769 --> 00:14:40.740
<v Speaker 2>Exactly. Based on these markers, they estimated the victim was

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00:14:40.779 --> 00:14:42.480
<v Speaker 2>between 17 and 30 years old.

348
00:14:43.000 --> 00:14:43.700
<v Speaker 1>And ancestry?

349
00:14:44.360 --> 00:14:47.919
<v Speaker 2>As for ancestry, that is determined by examining the microscopic

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00:14:47.960 --> 00:14:50.820
<v Speaker 2>structure of the bone and, more commonly, the morphology of

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00:14:50.860 --> 00:14:51.340
<v Speaker 2>the skull.

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00:14:51.580 --> 00:14:52.399
<v Speaker 1>Like the shape of the face.

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00:14:52.759 --> 00:14:57.460
<v Speaker 2>Yes, particularly the mid-facial region, the nasal aperture, and the

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00:14:57.639 --> 00:15:01.700
<v Speaker 2>eye orbits, which vary statistically among different ancestral populations.

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00:15:01.779 --> 00:15:05.259
<v Speaker 1>So let's look at the profile the anthropologists build. They

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00:15:05.299 --> 00:15:08.700
<v Speaker 1>conclude they have an adult male of African descent, standing

357
00:15:08.740 --> 00:15:13.090
<v Speaker 1>around 5'10, aged somewhere between 17 and 30.

358
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<v Speaker 2>Which is an incredibly specific demographic box.

359
00:15:16.250 --> 00:15:18.990
<v Speaker 1>It is. But the biology was only part of the story.

360
00:15:19.429 --> 00:15:22.649
<v Speaker 1>The earth in that coal bin preserved more than just bone.

361
00:15:23.190 --> 00:15:27.080
<v Speaker 2>They also recovered physical artifacts that survived the 16 years

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00:15:27.139 --> 00:15:27.799
<v Speaker 2>of decay.

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00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:30.240
<v Speaker 1>Here's where it gets really interesting, because this is the

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00:15:30.279 --> 00:15:31.659
<v Speaker 1>part of the story that makes you want to pull

365
00:15:31.679 --> 00:15:32.139
<v Speaker 1>your hair out.

366
00:15:32.700 --> 00:15:34.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the clothing. Right.

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00:15:34.340 --> 00:15:36.480
<v Speaker 1>They find remnants of the clothing. They recover pieces of

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00:15:36.519 --> 00:15:40.450
<v Speaker 1>plaid pants. They find argyle socks. They recover a white

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00:15:40.490 --> 00:15:41.389
<v Speaker 1>shirt with blue trim.

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<v Speaker 2>All highly specific.

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00:15:42.750 --> 00:15:45.409
<v Speaker 1>And they also find a yellow metal chain necklace and

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<v Speaker 1>a Coca-Cola brand watch.

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<v Speaker 2>Those artifacts are essentially a time capsule. They're deeply poignant

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<v Speaker 2>cultural markers of the late 1980s.

375
00:15:53.389 --> 00:15:57.330
<v Speaker 1>Exactly. A Coca-Cola watch is a massive pop culture identifier.

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00:15:57.649 --> 00:16:01.639
<v Speaker 1>Like Coca-Cola clothing and accessories were a huge trend, specifically

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00:16:01.759 --> 00:16:02.940
<v Speaker 1>in the mid to late 80s.

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00:16:03.139 --> 00:16:05.500
<v Speaker 2>It places the time of death almost perfectly.

379
00:16:05.980 --> 00:16:09.159
<v Speaker 1>But look at the staggering, tragic irony of this moment

380
00:16:09.220 --> 00:16:13.539
<v Speaker 1>in 2004. The medical examiner's office has a demographic profile

381
00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:16.779
<v Speaker 1>that perfectly aligns with a 21-year-old missing person.

382
00:16:16.980 --> 00:16:17.500
<v Speaker 2>Right.

383
00:16:17.919 --> 00:16:20.159
<v Speaker 1>And sitting on the evidence table right next to those

384
00:16:20.220 --> 00:16:23.370
<v Speaker 1>bones are plaid pants... It really is. This has to

385
00:16:23.389 --> 00:16:26.889
<v Speaker 1>be the moment they solve it. Right. Like, did this

386
00:16:26.909 --> 00:16:29.600
<v Speaker 1>immediately set off alarm bells for the missing persons unit?

387
00:16:29.899 --> 00:16:32.799
<v Speaker 1>You would desperately hope so. It seems so obvious to

388
00:16:32.860 --> 00:16:35.039
<v Speaker 1>us looking at the complete timeline. Yeah.

389
00:16:42.860 --> 00:16:44.610
<v Speaker 2>But it didn't set off alarm bells. They did not

390
00:16:44.639 --> 00:16:45.230
<v Speaker 2>make the connection.

391
00:16:45.269 --> 00:16:45.870
<v Speaker 1>Wait, really?

392
00:16:46.110 --> 00:16:49.370
<v Speaker 2>Really. Bryant Keith Bates remained an unidentified John Doe.

393
00:16:49.389 --> 00:16:51.809
<v Speaker 1>Who would have said even possible? Is this a failure

394
00:16:51.830 --> 00:16:54.169
<v Speaker 1>of police communication? Does one hand just not know what

395
00:16:54.190 --> 00:16:55.090
<v Speaker 1>the other hand is doing?

396
00:16:55.429 --> 00:16:58.330
<v Speaker 2>It is easy to blame incompetence, but it is much

397
00:16:58.370 --> 00:17:02.019
<v Speaker 2>more accurate to blame the structural limitations of the analog era.

398
00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:02.740
<v Speaker 1>The paper files.

399
00:17:03.460 --> 00:17:05.700
<v Speaker 2>It is a tragedy of paper files. You have to

400
00:17:05.740 --> 00:17:09.319
<v Speaker 2>put yourself in the reality of municipal record keeping before

401
00:17:09.359 --> 00:17:12.200
<v Speaker 2>the Internet was universally integrated into law enforcement.

402
00:17:12.750 --> 00:17:14.809
<v Speaker 1>Walk me through what that actually looks like. Why didn't

403
00:17:14.829 --> 00:17:17.970
<v Speaker 1>the file in 1988 talk to the file in 2004?

404
00:17:17.970 --> 00:17:21.490
<v Speaker 2>Because in 1988, that missing person report for Bryant Keith

405
00:17:21.549 --> 00:17:24.480
<v Speaker 2>Bates was quite literally a piece of paper.

406
00:17:24.579 --> 00:17:25.359
<v Speaker 1>Just a type sheet.

407
00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:28.819
<v Speaker 2>An officer typed it up, put it into a manila folder,

408
00:17:29.339 --> 00:17:32.180
<v Speaker 2>and dropped it into a physical metal filing cabinet in

409
00:17:32.200 --> 00:17:34.799
<v Speaker 2>a specific records room at the Birmingham Police Department.

410
00:17:35.059 --> 00:17:36.819
<v Speaker 1>Okay, and then 16 years pass.

411
00:17:37.380 --> 00:17:41.349
<v Speaker 2>Fast forward 16 years to 2004. The detectives who originally

412
00:17:41.390 --> 00:17:44.970
<v Speaker 2>took that report in 1988 have likely retired, been promoted

413
00:17:45.009 --> 00:17:47.390
<v Speaker 2>to different divisions, or just moved to different cities.

414
00:17:47.769 --> 00:17:50.930
<v Speaker 1>So the institutional memory, like the actual human brains that

415
00:17:50.970 --> 00:17:53.849
<v Speaker 1>remembered looking for plaid pants, are gone from the building.

416
00:17:54.250 --> 00:17:59.700
<v Speaker 2>Precisely. Now, look at 2004. The exterminator finds the bones.

417
00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:05.369
<v Speaker 2>The Jefferson County Coroner's Office generates a brand new... Physical

418
00:18:05.490 --> 00:18:06.509
<v Speaker 2>John Doe file.

419
00:18:06.690 --> 00:18:07.450
<v Speaker 1>In a different building.

420
00:18:07.630 --> 00:18:10.140
<v Speaker 2>That file sits in a completely different building in a

421
00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:13.160
<v Speaker 2>different filing cabinet under a different jurisdictional umbrella.

422
00:18:13.339 --> 00:18:18.960
<v Speaker 1>Oh, man. So without a centralized, easily searchable, digitized database

423
00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:22.170
<v Speaker 1>that allows a coroner in one building to just type,

424
00:18:22.750 --> 00:18:23.450
<v Speaker 1>plaid pants.

425
00:18:23.730 --> 00:18:27.529
<v Speaker 2>Right. And instantly search the historical missing persons reports of

426
00:18:27.569 --> 00:18:29.089
<v Speaker 2>the police department across town.

427
00:18:29.289 --> 00:18:32.809
<v Speaker 1>Those two paper files basically exist in parallel universes.

428
00:18:33.009 --> 00:18:37.630
<v Speaker 2>Unless a veteran detective miraculously remembers a 16-year-old flyer and

429
00:18:37.670 --> 00:18:39.970
<v Speaker 2>happens to be drinking coffee with the medical examiner on

430
00:18:40.009 --> 00:18:42.490
<v Speaker 2>the exact day the John Doe file is open, the

431
00:18:42.529 --> 00:18:43.369
<v Speaker 2>connection is lost.

432
00:18:43.490 --> 00:18:45.279
<v Speaker 1>The puzzle pieces are right there on the table, but

433
00:18:45.319 --> 00:18:46.380
<v Speaker 1>they are locked in different rooms.

434
00:18:46.410 --> 00:18:47.720
<v Speaker 2>It's absolutely maddening.

435
00:18:47.740 --> 00:18:51.920
<v Speaker 1>The analog system failed them completely. And because of that failure...

436
00:18:51.890 --> 00:18:53.829
<v Speaker 1>The family is forced to wait even longer.

437
00:18:54.230 --> 00:18:57.289
<v Speaker 2>Which brings us into the era where law enforcement finally

438
00:18:57.349 --> 00:18:59.230
<v Speaker 2>begins to digitize these records.

439
00:18:59.670 --> 00:19:02.299
<v Speaker 1>But as we're about to see, just having computers doesn't

440
00:19:02.420 --> 00:19:05.259
<v Speaker 1>magically solve the problem if the technology hasn't matured.

441
00:19:05.400 --> 00:19:07.759
<v Speaker 2>The case stalls again. The bones go into an evidence

442
00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:10.740
<v Speaker 2>locker and we enter another massive period of silence.

443
00:19:11.259 --> 00:19:11.720
<v Speaker 1>Another one.

444
00:19:11.880 --> 00:19:14.059
<v Speaker 2>It takes over a decade after the body was found

445
00:19:14.079 --> 00:19:15.880
<v Speaker 2>for the next procedural step to happen.

446
00:19:16.319 --> 00:19:16.660
<v Speaker 1>Decade.

447
00:19:17.099 --> 00:19:20.720
<v Speaker 2>It's not until November of 2015 that the unidentified remains

448
00:19:20.769 --> 00:19:23.829
<v Speaker 2>of Arjondo are finally entered into the National Missing and

449
00:19:23.910 --> 00:19:27.410
<v Speaker 2>Unidentified Persons System, which is commonly known in the forensic

450
00:19:27.430 --> 00:19:28.769
<v Speaker 2>community as NAMIS.

451
00:19:29.230 --> 00:19:34.819
<v Speaker 1>Wait, 2015? The exterminator found the body in 2004. Why

452
00:19:34.900 --> 00:19:37.079
<v Speaker 1>on earth did it take 11 years just to type

453
00:19:37.119 --> 00:19:40.240
<v Speaker 1>the details of his skeleton and his Coca-Cola watch into

454
00:19:40.279 --> 00:19:41.099
<v Speaker 1>a computer system?

455
00:19:41.299 --> 00:19:44.150
<v Speaker 2>Because the system itself had to be built and then populated,

456
00:19:44.230 --> 00:19:46.470
<v Speaker 2>which is a monumental administrative task.

457
00:19:46.529 --> 00:19:47.730
<v Speaker 1>And NAMIUS wasn't around yet.

458
00:19:48.059 --> 00:19:52.380
<v Speaker 2>NAMIUS is a remarkable national information clearinghouse and resource center

459
00:19:52.460 --> 00:19:56.559
<v Speaker 2>for missing, unidentified, and unclaimed person cases across the U.S.

460
00:19:57.180 --> 00:20:00.140
<v Speaker 2>But it didn't even launch its missing persons database until 2008.

461
00:20:00.140 --> 00:20:04.980
<v Speaker 2>And the unidentified remains database followed shortly after. But here

462
00:20:05.069 --> 00:20:09.529
<v Speaker 2>is the critical flaw in the system's early days. It

463
00:20:09.589 --> 00:20:11.109
<v Speaker 2>wasn't automatically populated.

464
00:20:11.190 --> 00:20:13.000
<v Speaker 1>Meaning someone had to manually do it.

465
00:20:13.089 --> 00:20:18.279
<v Speaker 2>Yes. It required local jurisdictions, county coroners, understaffed police departments,

466
00:20:18.619 --> 00:20:20.099
<v Speaker 2>overwhelmed medical examiners.

467
00:20:20.190 --> 00:20:22.500
<v Speaker 1>Manually dig through their physical archives?

468
00:20:22.559 --> 00:20:26.839
<v Speaker 2>Yes. Pull out decades of cold case manila folders and

469
00:20:27.019 --> 00:20:29.640
<v Speaker 2>individually type the data into the new web portals.

470
00:20:29.859 --> 00:20:31.420
<v Speaker 1>So it was essentially an unfunded mandate.

471
00:20:31.779 --> 00:20:32.160
<v Speaker 2>Exactly.

472
00:20:32.380 --> 00:20:34.920
<v Speaker 1>You have people whose full-time job is dealing with the

473
00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:37.769
<v Speaker 1>fresh tragedies of today, and you are asking them to

474
00:20:37.849 --> 00:20:41.230
<v Speaker 1>find hours in their week to digitize the tragedies of 1988.

475
00:20:41.230 --> 00:20:45.630
<v Speaker 2>The backlog was, and honestly still is, astronomical. So it

476
00:20:45.690 --> 00:20:48.809
<v Speaker 2>takes until 2015 for someone in Jefferson County to finally

477
00:20:48.930 --> 00:20:51.960
<v Speaker 2>upload this specific John Doe profile into NAMOS.

478
00:20:52.180 --> 00:20:55.539
<v Speaker 1>They enter the 5'10 height, the African descent, the 17

479
00:20:55.539 --> 00:20:58.640
<v Speaker 1>to 30 age range, the plaid pants, the Coca-Cola watch.

480
00:20:58.930 --> 00:21:01.230
<v Speaker 2>They cross their fingers, they hit the search button to

481
00:21:01.250 --> 00:21:03.509
<v Speaker 2>see if it pings against any missing persons entered into

482
00:21:03.529 --> 00:21:04.630
<v Speaker 2>the system, and it's nothing.

483
00:21:04.819 --> 00:21:09.119
<v Speaker 1>They get zero matches. Because Brian Keith Bates' 1988 missing

484
00:21:09.160 --> 00:21:13.140
<v Speaker 1>person file likely hadn't been digitized and uploaded into the

485
00:21:13.180 --> 00:21:14.759
<v Speaker 1>missing person site of NAMUS yet.

486
00:21:14.900 --> 00:21:17.720
<v Speaker 2>Right. The systems only work if both halves of the

487
00:21:17.769 --> 00:21:19.170
<v Speaker 2>puzzle have been manually entered.

488
00:21:19.509 --> 00:21:20.650
<v Speaker 1>This is so frustrating.

489
00:21:20.990 --> 00:21:23.990
<v Speaker 2>So, frustrated by the database dead end, they wait a

490
00:21:24.009 --> 00:21:26.170
<v Speaker 2>few more years and try a biological approach.

491
00:21:26.309 --> 00:21:26.569
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

492
00:21:26.990 --> 00:21:30.650
<v Speaker 2>In January of 2018... Investigators send a physical sample of

493
00:21:30.690 --> 00:21:33.950
<v Speaker 2>the bone to the University of Texas Center for Human Identification.

494
00:21:33.970 --> 00:21:35.710
<v Speaker 1>You refer to it as UNTCHI.

495
00:21:36.559 --> 00:21:38.650
<v Speaker 2>They request traditional DNA analysis.

496
00:21:39.079 --> 00:21:41.539
<v Speaker 1>Okay, before we talk about the results, explain the biology

497
00:21:41.559 --> 00:21:43.880
<v Speaker 1>to me. Because the bone has been sitting in a

498
00:21:43.960 --> 00:21:47.700
<v Speaker 1>dirt coal bin from 1988 to 2004. Right. And then

499
00:21:47.799 --> 00:21:51.400
<v Speaker 1>sitting in an evidence box from 2004 to 2018. That

500
00:21:51.460 --> 00:21:53.000
<v Speaker 1>is 30 years of degradation.

501
00:21:53.019 --> 00:21:53.900
<v Speaker 2>That's a long time.

502
00:21:54.059 --> 00:21:58.240
<v Speaker 1>How do scientists extract usable DNA from a dry 30-year-old bone?

503
00:21:58.710 --> 00:22:02.269
<v Speaker 2>It is an incredibly delicate and rigorous scientific process because,

504
00:22:02.369 --> 00:22:05.569
<v Speaker 2>as you needed, DNA degrades. In a living body, DNA

505
00:22:05.630 --> 00:22:08.630
<v Speaker 2>is protected within our cells. Sure. But after death, the

506
00:22:08.670 --> 00:22:12.190
<v Speaker 2>cells break down. Bacteria in the soil, moisture in the crawlspace,

507
00:22:12.329 --> 00:22:13.430
<v Speaker 2>temperature fluctuations.

508
00:22:13.970 --> 00:22:15.210
<v Speaker 1>All of that attacks the DNA.

509
00:22:15.579 --> 00:22:18.559
<v Speaker 2>All of these factors attack and shred the long strands

510
00:22:18.599 --> 00:22:20.839
<v Speaker 2>of DNA into tiny fragmented pieces.

511
00:22:20.859 --> 00:22:21.680
<v Speaker 1>It's a wide bone.

512
00:22:22.150 --> 00:22:25.140
<v Speaker 2>Bone is actually one of the best preservers of DNA

513
00:22:25.220 --> 00:22:29.019
<v Speaker 2>because the hard calcium matrix acts like a microscopic vault,

514
00:22:29.460 --> 00:22:31.259
<v Speaker 2>shielding the cells trapped inside.

515
00:22:31.579 --> 00:22:32.779
<v Speaker 1>So how do they crack the vault?

516
00:22:33.059 --> 00:22:36.640
<v Speaker 2>The forensic scientists at UNTCHI take a small section of

517
00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:39.269
<v Speaker 2>the bone, usually from a dense area like the femur

518
00:22:39.369 --> 00:22:42.470
<v Speaker 2>or a tooth, and they physically clean the exterior to

519
00:22:42.529 --> 00:22:47.170
<v Speaker 2>remove any modern contamination. Then they freeze it using liquid

520
00:22:47.210 --> 00:22:49.910
<v Speaker 2>nitrogen to make it incredibly brittle, and they pulverize it

521
00:22:49.950 --> 00:22:50.950
<v Speaker 2>into a fine powder.

522
00:22:50.970 --> 00:22:51.549
<v Speaker 1>Bone dust.

523
00:22:51.849 --> 00:22:54.980
<v Speaker 2>Right. That bone powder is then treated with a series

524
00:22:55.019 --> 00:22:58.440
<v Speaker 2>of harsh chemicals and enzymes. The goal is to decalcify

525
00:22:58.480 --> 00:23:01.380
<v Speaker 2>the bone powder, breaking down the hard mineral structure, and

526
00:23:01.420 --> 00:23:05.250
<v Speaker 2>then burst open the cellular membranes to release whatever fragmented

527
00:23:05.289 --> 00:23:06.529
<v Speaker 2>DNA is left inside.

528
00:23:06.549 --> 00:23:06.990
<v Speaker 1>Wow.

529
00:23:07.450 --> 00:23:10.289
<v Speaker 2>They then use a chemical process to bind the DNA

530
00:23:10.329 --> 00:23:13.569
<v Speaker 2>to a silica membrane, wash away all the burnt and calcium,

531
00:23:13.789 --> 00:23:17.170
<v Speaker 2>and elute the purified DNA into a tiny vial of liquid.

532
00:23:17.410 --> 00:23:19.430
<v Speaker 1>And from that tiny vial of liquid, they try to

533
00:23:19.450 --> 00:23:20.170
<v Speaker 1>build a profile.

534
00:23:20.549 --> 00:23:25.109
<v Speaker 2>Yes. They use a technique called polymerase chain reaction, or PCR.

535
00:23:25.130 --> 00:23:26.539
<v Speaker 1>PCR, like the COVID test.

536
00:23:26.630 --> 00:23:30.480
<v Speaker 2>Exactly the same principle. It acts like a biological photocopier.

537
00:23:30.880 --> 00:23:31.319
<v Speaker 1>Okay, I see.

538
00:23:31.660 --> 00:23:35.240
<v Speaker 2>It takes the tiny degraded fragments of DNA and copies

539
00:23:35.279 --> 00:23:37.700
<v Speaker 2>them millions of times until there is a large enough

540
00:23:37.799 --> 00:23:39.559
<v Speaker 2>sample for the machines to actually read.

541
00:23:39.759 --> 00:23:40.960
<v Speaker 1>That is brilliant.

542
00:23:41.009 --> 00:23:45.549
<v Speaker 2>In 2018, UNTCHI successfully performed this process. They developed a

543
00:23:45.589 --> 00:23:49.150
<v Speaker 2>traditional male DNA profile from the bone powder, and they

544
00:23:49.329 --> 00:23:51.289
<v Speaker 2>uploaded that profile into CODIS.

545
00:23:51.779 --> 00:23:55.220
<v Speaker 1>ENCODIS is the Combined DNA Index System. It's the FBI's

546
00:23:55.400 --> 00:23:59.319
<v Speaker 1>massive national DNA database that we hear about on literally

547
00:23:59.460 --> 00:24:00.799
<v Speaker 1>every single true crime show.

548
00:24:01.019 --> 00:24:03.660
<v Speaker 2>It is the gold standard for criminal justice DNA tracking

549
00:24:03.720 --> 00:24:04.549
<v Speaker 2>in the United States.

550
00:24:04.809 --> 00:24:06.650
<v Speaker 1>So they upload the John Doe's profile.

551
00:24:06.690 --> 00:24:09.609
<v Speaker 2>The system runs its algorithms against millions of other DNA

552
00:24:09.650 --> 00:24:11.549
<v Speaker 2>profiles and the result comes back. No match.

553
00:24:11.910 --> 00:24:14.450
<v Speaker 1>Which just feels like a devastating blow. I mean, I

554
00:24:14.470 --> 00:24:16.890
<v Speaker 1>want to push back on the cultural mythology of these

555
00:24:16.970 --> 00:24:20.640
<v Speaker 1>databases here. Because I think pop culture has completely warped

556
00:24:20.680 --> 00:24:23.359
<v Speaker 1>our understanding of how they actually work. Oh, absolutely. We

557
00:24:23.380 --> 00:24:27.059
<v Speaker 1>watch police procedurals. We watch NCIS. And we're conditioned to

558
00:24:27.099 --> 00:24:31.740
<v Speaker 1>believe that CODIS is this magical crystal ball. Like the

559
00:24:31.779 --> 00:24:34.859
<v Speaker 1>lab technician in the white coat hits a dramatic red button.

560
00:24:35.299 --> 00:24:37.559
<v Speaker 1>Green numbers cascade down a computer screen.

561
00:24:37.779 --> 00:24:40.680
<v Speaker 2>And boom, a photograph of the killer or the victim

562
00:24:40.740 --> 00:24:43.859
<v Speaker 2>pops up alongside their home address and a list of

563
00:24:43.900 --> 00:24:44.799
<v Speaker 2>known associates.

564
00:24:44.900 --> 00:24:46.859
<v Speaker 1>Exactly. We think it's instant magic.

565
00:24:47.230 --> 00:24:49.890
<v Speaker 2>The television version of forensic science, what we often call

566
00:24:49.930 --> 00:24:54.809
<v Speaker 2>the CSI effect, has created wildly unrealistic expectations for both

567
00:24:54.829 --> 00:24:56.869
<v Speaker 2>the public and sometimes even for juries.

568
00:24:57.269 --> 00:24:59.650
<v Speaker 1>So if CODIS isn't a crystal ball, what is a

569
00:24:59.710 --> 00:25:03.470
<v Speaker 1>better analogy for how it actually functions? Because clearly putting

570
00:25:03.490 --> 00:25:06.279
<v Speaker 1>the DNA in didn't solve the case in 2018.

571
00:25:06.279 --> 00:25:08.559
<v Speaker 2>Think of CODIS not as a search engine, but as

572
00:25:08.619 --> 00:25:11.819
<v Speaker 2>a massive, highly secured electronic filing cabinet.

573
00:25:11.839 --> 00:25:12.799
<v Speaker 1>Okay, a filing cabinet.

574
00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:16.700
<v Speaker 2>Traditional DNA testing looks at very specific targeted locations on

575
00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:20.140
<v Speaker 2>the human genome called short tandem repeats or STRs.

576
00:25:20.289 --> 00:25:21.009
<v Speaker 1>STRs, got it.

577
00:25:21.250 --> 00:25:24.289
<v Speaker 2>CODIS typically looks at about 20 of these core loci.

578
00:25:24.730 --> 00:25:27.230
<v Speaker 2>The machine generates a string of numbers representing the genetic

579
00:25:27.289 --> 00:25:29.309
<v Speaker 2>markers at those 20 locations.

580
00:25:29.369 --> 00:25:30.990
<v Speaker 1>So it's a very specific string of numbers.

581
00:25:31.430 --> 00:25:35.190
<v Speaker 2>It is highly effective for proving identity. It can say,

582
00:25:35.390 --> 00:25:38.819
<v Speaker 2>with statistical certainty, the blood at this crime scene belongs

583
00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:39.599
<v Speaker 2>to John Smith.

584
00:25:40.349 --> 00:25:42.910
<v Speaker 1>But only if John Smith's file is already in the cabinet.

585
00:25:43.049 --> 00:25:47.150
<v Speaker 2>Exactly. That is the fundamental limitation. Traditional DNA testing and

586
00:25:47.190 --> 00:25:50.960
<v Speaker 2>CODIS operate entirely on the premise of a direct one-to-one match.

587
00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:52.299
<v Speaker 1>You have to already be in the system.

588
00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:54.839
<v Speaker 2>For CODIS to give you a name, the person whose

589
00:25:54.880 --> 00:25:58.559
<v Speaker 2>DNA you submitted must already have their genetic profile stored

590
00:25:58.759 --> 00:26:00.250
<v Speaker 2>in that specific system.

591
00:26:00.529 --> 00:26:02.369
<v Speaker 1>And how do you even get into CODIS in the

592
00:26:02.410 --> 00:26:02.950
<v Speaker 1>first place?

593
00:26:03.670 --> 00:26:07.349
<v Speaker 2>Usually it requires a prior felony criminal conviction where a

594
00:26:07.390 --> 00:26:11.859
<v Speaker 2>swab was taken upon arrest. Alternatively, an immediate family member

595
00:26:11.900 --> 00:26:15.269
<v Speaker 2>of a missing person might have voluntarily submitted a swab

596
00:26:15.529 --> 00:26:18.630
<v Speaker 2>to a specific missing person's index within CODIS.

597
00:26:18.950 --> 00:26:21.589
<v Speaker 1>So if Brian Keith Bates had never committed a felony

598
00:26:21.609 --> 00:26:24.589
<v Speaker 1>before 1988, his DNA wouldn't be in the system.

599
00:26:24.650 --> 00:26:25.049
<v Speaker 2>Correct.

600
00:26:25.450 --> 00:26:28.309
<v Speaker 1>And if his family hadn't known to provide a DNA

601
00:26:28.349 --> 00:26:31.750
<v Speaker 1>swab to the specific missing person's index by 2018, their

602
00:26:31.769 --> 00:26:32.970
<v Speaker 1>DNA wouldn't be in there either.

603
00:26:33.210 --> 00:26:33.619
<v Speaker 2>Also correct.

604
00:26:33.839 --> 00:26:37.460
<v Speaker 1>So when investigators upload the bone profile in 2018... They're

605
00:26:37.480 --> 00:26:40.200
<v Speaker 1>essentially just aggressively rummaging through an empty drawer in that

606
00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:40.880
<v Speaker 1>filing cabinet.

607
00:26:41.309 --> 00:26:44.130
<v Speaker 2>That is the perfect way to visualize it. CODIS is

608
00:26:44.250 --> 00:26:47.369
<v Speaker 2>blind to anyone who hasn't already interacted with the criminal

609
00:26:47.410 --> 00:26:50.069
<v Speaker 2>justice system or the missing persons database.

610
00:26:50.589 --> 00:26:52.650
<v Speaker 1>It can't tell you who someone is from scratch.

611
00:26:52.869 --> 00:26:55.180
<v Speaker 2>Right. It cannot tell you who a person is. It

612
00:26:55.220 --> 00:26:57.420
<v Speaker 2>can only definitively tell you who they are not.

613
00:26:57.859 --> 00:27:00.279
<v Speaker 1>Put yourself in the shoes of the Birmingham cold case

614
00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:03.960
<v Speaker 1>detectives in 2018. You are using what is billed as

615
00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:08.549
<v Speaker 1>the most cutting-edge 21st century technology available to law enforcement. Yeah.

616
00:27:09.049 --> 00:27:12.130
<v Speaker 1>You have successfully extracted a DNA profile from a murder

617
00:27:12.170 --> 00:27:16.230
<v Speaker 1>victim whose bones sat in a coal bin for 16 years.

618
00:27:16.470 --> 00:27:18.369
<v Speaker 2>A huge scientific feat on its own.

619
00:27:18.410 --> 00:27:21.289
<v Speaker 1>You have the full weight of the FBI's national database

620
00:27:21.329 --> 00:27:25.170
<v Speaker 1>behind you, and you still hit an absolutely impenetrable brick wall.

621
00:27:25.640 --> 00:27:28.319
<v Speaker 1>You are no closer to his identity than the exterminator

622
00:27:28.359 --> 00:27:29.740
<v Speaker 1>was in 2004.

623
00:27:29.740 --> 00:27:31.740
<v Speaker 2>It had to be profoundly demoralizing.

624
00:27:31.819 --> 00:27:35.539
<v Speaker 1>The limits of CODIS in 2018... perfectly illustrate how traditional

625
00:27:35.579 --> 00:27:38.200
<v Speaker 1>forensic science had hit a technological ceiling.

626
00:27:38.390 --> 00:27:41.750
<v Speaker 2>They had pushed the direct match STR DNA technology as

627
00:27:41.809 --> 00:27:44.470
<v Speaker 2>far as it could possibly go, and it wasn't enough.

628
00:27:44.569 --> 00:27:45.369
<v Speaker 1>They needed something else.

629
00:27:45.470 --> 00:27:48.029
<v Speaker 2>They needed a completely new paradigm. They needed a different

630
00:27:48.049 --> 00:27:51.299
<v Speaker 2>way of interrogating the DNA. They needed the DNA to

631
00:27:51.339 --> 00:27:54.420
<v Speaker 2>tell a broader story than just a direct identity.

632
00:27:54.660 --> 00:27:57.240
<v Speaker 1>Which sets the stage beautifully for the true hero of

633
00:27:57.279 --> 00:28:00.640
<v Speaker 1>this entire narrative. And honestly, what is becoming the defining

634
00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:02.779
<v Speaker 1>forensic breakthrough of our generation?

635
00:28:02.920 --> 00:28:05.480
<v Speaker 2>We are moving forward to the years 2025 and 2026.

636
00:28:05.460 --> 00:28:09.880
<v Speaker 1>And the entrance of a process called forensic genetic genealogy

637
00:28:10.500 --> 00:28:11.400
<v Speaker 1>or FGG.

638
00:28:11.880 --> 00:28:15.369
<v Speaker 2>This is where the entire landscape of criminal investigations shifts

639
00:28:15.509 --> 00:28:19.910
<v Speaker 2>on its axis. In March of 2025, investigators decide to

640
00:28:20.029 --> 00:28:21.190
<v Speaker 2>try this new paradigm.

641
00:28:21.509 --> 00:28:22.170
<v Speaker 1>OK, so what do they do?

642
00:28:22.630 --> 00:28:25.140
<v Speaker 2>They take another bone sample from the John Doe. and

643
00:28:25.200 --> 00:28:28.920
<v Speaker 2>submit it to a private laboratory based in Texas called Othram, Inc.

644
00:28:29.160 --> 00:28:29.720
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Othram.

645
00:28:29.940 --> 00:28:33.279
<v Speaker 2>Now, Othram does not do traditional CODIS testing. They specialize

646
00:28:33.339 --> 00:28:36.750
<v Speaker 2>exclusively in forensic genetic genealogy for law enforcement.

647
00:28:36.910 --> 00:28:38.549
<v Speaker 1>So what happens at Othram? How is it different?

648
00:28:38.829 --> 00:28:42.089
<v Speaker 2>The scientists at Othram manage to extract DNA once again,

649
00:28:42.490 --> 00:28:46.210
<v Speaker 2>but they use a completely different sequencing technology. They develop

650
00:28:46.250 --> 00:28:48.859
<v Speaker 2>a comprehensive genealogical DNA profile.

651
00:28:49.220 --> 00:28:49.480
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

652
00:28:49.700 --> 00:28:53.660
<v Speaker 2>This new profile confirms the previous anthropological finding of African descent,

653
00:28:53.940 --> 00:28:58.660
<v Speaker 2>but more importantly... Authron's in-house genetic genealogists use this complex

654
00:28:58.720 --> 00:29:01.900
<v Speaker 2>new profile to develop fresh investigative leads.

655
00:29:02.259 --> 00:29:03.880
<v Speaker 1>They aren't looking for a direct match anymore.

656
00:29:04.160 --> 00:29:06.859
<v Speaker 2>No, they're looking for the victim's distant family tree.

657
00:29:07.259 --> 00:29:09.400
<v Speaker 1>Okay, if CODIS is a filing cabinet looking for an

658
00:29:09.460 --> 00:29:14.109
<v Speaker 1>exact matching file, what is the mechanism behind FGG? How

659
00:29:14.140 --> 00:29:16.930
<v Speaker 1>does Authron's test do what the FBI's test couldn't do

660
00:29:17.009 --> 00:29:20.130
<v Speaker 1>just seven years earlier? Explain the biological difference to me.

661
00:29:20.460 --> 00:29:23.960
<v Speaker 2>The difference lies in the volume of genetic data being analyzed.

662
00:29:24.119 --> 00:29:24.519
<v Speaker 1>Volume.

663
00:29:24.720 --> 00:29:28.460
<v Speaker 2>Remember, traditional CODIS testing looks at about 20 locations or

664
00:29:28.519 --> 00:29:31.660
<v Speaker 2>loci on the DNA strand. It is a very narrow

665
00:29:31.769 --> 00:29:32.569
<v Speaker 2>targeted look.

666
00:29:32.619 --> 00:29:33.450
<v Speaker 1>Just 20 spots.

667
00:29:33.509 --> 00:29:36.970
<v Speaker 2>Right. Forensic genetic genealogy, on the other hand, utilizes something

668
00:29:37.009 --> 00:29:41.309
<v Speaker 2>called single nucleotide polymorphisms or SNPs. pronounced SNPs.

669
00:29:41.509 --> 00:29:42.220
<v Speaker 1>Yes, got it.

670
00:29:42.390 --> 00:29:46.130
<v Speaker 2>Instead of looking at 20 locations, SNP testing looks at

671
00:29:46.329 --> 00:29:50.390
<v Speaker 2>hundreds of thousands of microscopic locations across the entire genome.

672
00:29:50.579 --> 00:29:53.650
<v Speaker 1>Wow. That is a massive jump in data. Can you

673
00:29:53.670 --> 00:29:57.359
<v Speaker 1>give me an ELI-5 and explain it like I'm 5 analogy?

674
00:29:58.000 --> 00:30:00.759
<v Speaker 1>for the difference between loci and SMPs?

675
00:30:01.400 --> 00:30:05.859
<v Speaker 2>Sure. Imagine you were trying to determine if two massive 1,000-page

676
00:30:05.900 --> 00:30:07.339
<v Speaker 2>books are exactly the same.

677
00:30:07.619 --> 00:30:07.839
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

678
00:30:08.200 --> 00:30:11.099
<v Speaker 2>Traditional CODIS testing is like looking only at the table

679
00:30:11.119 --> 00:30:13.960
<v Speaker 2>of contents and comparing the 20-chapter titles. I see. If

680
00:30:14.009 --> 00:30:16.650
<v Speaker 2>the 20-chapter titles match perfectly, you know it's the exact

681
00:30:16.690 --> 00:30:19.410
<v Speaker 2>same book. But if they don't match, you learn nothing else.

682
00:30:19.750 --> 00:30:21.690
<v Speaker 2>You can't tell if the authors are related or if

683
00:30:21.750 --> 00:30:23.210
<v Speaker 2>they wrote about similar topics. Right.

684
00:30:23.230 --> 00:30:25.509
<v Speaker 1>It's totally binary, match or no match. Exactly. Exactly.

685
00:30:25.920 --> 00:30:28.480
<v Speaker 2>S & T testing, however, is like scanning every single

686
00:30:28.500 --> 00:30:31.089
<v Speaker 2>one of those 1,000 pages and looking at hundreds of

687
00:30:31.119 --> 00:30:35.630
<v Speaker 2>thousands of individual words, punctuation marks, and specific typographical errors.

688
00:30:35.730 --> 00:30:36.869
<v Speaker 1>Wow, that's incredibly detailed.

689
00:30:37.289 --> 00:30:40.210
<v Speaker 2>By mapping all of those tiny, widespread details, you don't

690
00:30:40.250 --> 00:30:42.130
<v Speaker 2>just see if the book is an exact copy. You

691
00:30:42.150 --> 00:30:44.099
<v Speaker 2>can see if parts of the book were plagiarized from

692
00:30:44.140 --> 00:30:44.740
<v Speaker 2>another source.

693
00:30:44.759 --> 00:30:45.420
<v Speaker 1>Oh, does that make sense?

694
00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:48.019
<v Speaker 2>You can see if the two books share a common editor.

695
00:30:48.420 --> 00:30:51.559
<v Speaker 2>You can trace the lineage of the text. SNP testing

696
00:30:51.619 --> 00:30:55.059
<v Speaker 2>paints a vastly more detailed, high-resolution genetic picture of a

697
00:30:55.099 --> 00:30:57.079
<v Speaker 2>person's entire ancestral makeup.

698
00:30:57.480 --> 00:31:00.940
<v Speaker 1>So traditional DNA is asking the database, are you in here?

699
00:31:01.940 --> 00:31:04.980
<v Speaker 1>But FGG is asking a much wider, more expansive question,

700
00:31:05.640 --> 00:31:06.579
<v Speaker 1>who are your cousins?

701
00:31:06.839 --> 00:31:10.160
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and they ask that question in completely different databases.

702
00:31:10.180 --> 00:31:11.579
<v Speaker 1>Right, because they can't use CODIS.

703
00:31:11.960 --> 00:31:15.680
<v Speaker 2>OTHERM is not uploading this massive SNP profile into CODIS

704
00:31:15.720 --> 00:31:17.829
<v Speaker 2>because CODIS isn't built to read SNPs.

705
00:31:17.849 --> 00:31:18.529
<v Speaker 1>Where does it go then?

706
00:31:19.109 --> 00:31:24.319
<v Speaker 2>They upload this data file into commercial direct-to-consumer genealogical databases,

707
00:31:25.059 --> 00:31:30.660
<v Speaker 2>specifically ones that allow law enforcement searches like GEDmatch or FamilyTreatNA.

708
00:31:30.720 --> 00:31:32.079
<v Speaker 1>The ones everyday people use.

709
00:31:32.339 --> 00:31:35.960
<v Speaker 2>Exactly. These are databases where millions of everyday citizens have

710
00:31:36.039 --> 00:31:39.519
<v Speaker 2>voluntarily spit into a tube and uploaded their DNA to

711
00:31:39.559 --> 00:31:42.140
<v Speaker 2>learn about their family heritage or find lost relatives.

712
00:31:42.400 --> 00:31:44.460
<v Speaker 1>It's like the Google Maps analogy we've talked about before.

713
00:31:44.579 --> 00:31:45.849
<v Speaker 2>Right. I love that analogy.

714
00:31:46.109 --> 00:31:48.859
<v Speaker 1>Traditional DNA is like typing an exact address into Google Maps.

715
00:31:49.500 --> 00:31:51.160
<v Speaker 1>If the house isn't built yet, the map shows you

716
00:31:51.200 --> 00:31:51.680
<v Speaker 1>empty space.

717
00:31:52.119 --> 00:31:53.000
<v Speaker 2>And FGG.

718
00:31:53.279 --> 00:31:56.640
<v Speaker 1>FGG is like dropping a pin anywhere in the general neighborhood,

719
00:31:57.059 --> 00:31:59.839
<v Speaker 1>looking at the surrounding streets, finding the names of the neighbors,

720
00:32:00.180 --> 00:32:03.339
<v Speaker 1>and using them to triangulate where the missing house should be.

721
00:32:03.880 --> 00:32:08.309
<v Speaker 2>That triangulation is the core of genetic genealogy. The genealogist

722
00:32:08.509 --> 00:32:11.630
<v Speaker 2>uploads the John Doe's profile, and the system measures shared

723
00:32:11.650 --> 00:32:16.900
<v Speaker 2>DNA using a unit called centimorgans. The higher the shared centimorgans,

724
00:32:16.940 --> 00:32:19.740
<v Speaker 2>the closer the relationship. They aren't going to find the

725
00:32:19.799 --> 00:32:22.460
<v Speaker 2>victim in there, but they might find a user who

726
00:32:22.500 --> 00:32:24.740
<v Speaker 2>shares enough centimorgans to be a second cousin.

727
00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:26.369
<v Speaker 1>Or a third cousin once removed.

728
00:32:26.460 --> 00:32:31.950
<v Speaker 2>Exactly. Once they identify those distant relatives, the molecular biology

729
00:32:32.089 --> 00:32:36.549
<v Speaker 2>essentially stops and the historical archival sleuthing begins.

730
00:32:36.630 --> 00:32:38.940
<v Speaker 1>This is the part that fascinates me the most. Picture

731
00:32:38.960 --> 00:32:41.359
<v Speaker 1>the genealogists sitting at their desk at Othram.

732
00:32:41.539 --> 00:32:41.900
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

733
00:32:42.019 --> 00:32:44.119
<v Speaker 1>They have stepped away from the test tubes and the

734
00:32:44.160 --> 00:32:47.279
<v Speaker 1>genetic sequencers. What are they actually doing on their computer

735
00:32:47.299 --> 00:32:47.599
<v Speaker 1>all day?

736
00:32:47.900 --> 00:32:49.940
<v Speaker 2>They are acting as digital historians.

737
00:32:50.059 --> 00:32:50.859
<v Speaker 1>That's so cool.

738
00:32:50.880 --> 00:32:53.259
<v Speaker 2>They take the names of those distant cousins identified in

739
00:32:53.279 --> 00:32:56.859
<v Speaker 2>the database, and they begin aggressively scouring public records.

740
00:32:57.380 --> 00:32:58.140
<v Speaker 1>Like what kind of records?

741
00:32:58.359 --> 00:33:02.019
<v Speaker 2>They are reading through digitized census data from the 1930s

742
00:33:02.039 --> 00:33:07.259
<v Speaker 2>and 1940s. They are pulling marriage certificates, birth records, property deeds.

743
00:33:07.730 --> 00:33:09.730
<v Speaker 2>and local newspaper obituaries.

744
00:33:09.990 --> 00:33:11.369
<v Speaker 1>Just putting together the puzzle.

745
00:33:11.650 --> 00:33:15.069
<v Speaker 2>They use all of this public data to build massive,

746
00:33:15.210 --> 00:33:20.019
<v Speaker 2>sprawling family trees backward in time. They trace the lineages

747
00:33:20.079 --> 00:33:23.000
<v Speaker 2>of those distant cousins up through history until they find

748
00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:24.160
<v Speaker 2>the common ancestors.

749
00:33:24.339 --> 00:33:27.099
<v Speaker 1>Perhaps a set of great-grandparents who lived in Alabama in

750
00:33:27.119 --> 00:33:28.130
<v Speaker 1>the early 1900s.

751
00:33:28.400 --> 00:33:29.039
<v Speaker 2>Precisely.

752
00:33:29.359 --> 00:33:31.640
<v Speaker 1>And once they find that apex of the tree, those

753
00:33:31.700 --> 00:33:34.400
<v Speaker 1>common great-grandparents... They reverse direction.

754
00:33:34.420 --> 00:33:37.539
<v Speaker 2>Correct. They start building the family tree back down toward

755
00:33:37.559 --> 00:33:40.440
<v Speaker 2>the present day. They map out every child, every grandchild,

756
00:33:40.480 --> 00:33:42.859
<v Speaker 2>and every great-grandchild of those common ancestors.

757
00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:46.220
<v Speaker 1>They are essentially reconstructing the entire modern family network.

758
00:33:46.440 --> 00:33:49.160
<v Speaker 2>And as they build this massive web down into the

759
00:33:49.220 --> 00:33:52.769
<v Speaker 2>1970s and 1980s, they are looking for a very specific anomaly.

760
00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:53.640
<v Speaker 1>A missing leaf.

761
00:33:54.049 --> 00:33:55.990
<v Speaker 2>They are looking for a branch on the tree that

762
00:33:56.049 --> 00:33:58.930
<v Speaker 2>is missing a leaf. They are looking for a young

763
00:33:59.009 --> 00:34:03.160
<v Speaker 2>male of African descent, born in the late 1960s, who

764
00:34:03.240 --> 00:34:05.460
<v Speaker 2>seemingly vanished from public records around 1988.

765
00:34:05.460 --> 00:34:11.710
<v Speaker 1>It is an absolute masterclass in marrying modern biology with

766
00:34:11.769 --> 00:34:15.949
<v Speaker 1>archival history. And the incredible thing is, this painstaking process

767
00:34:16.210 --> 00:34:16.989
<v Speaker 1>actually worked.

768
00:34:17.210 --> 00:34:20.409
<v Speaker 2>It did. Othram's genealogists generated the lead.

769
00:34:20.489 --> 00:34:22.929
<v Speaker 1>They handed that family tree back to the Jefferson County

770
00:34:22.969 --> 00:34:23.730
<v Speaker 1>coroner's office.

771
00:34:24.090 --> 00:34:27.039
<v Speaker 2>And the local investigators follow the branches right to the

772
00:34:27.099 --> 00:34:29.219
<v Speaker 2>surviving family of Bryant Keith Bates.

773
00:34:29.590 --> 00:34:32.510
<v Speaker 1>Which culminates in one of the most profoundly emotional moments

774
00:34:32.630 --> 00:34:35.570
<v Speaker 1>in any cold case investigation. The notification.

775
00:34:35.670 --> 00:34:36.170
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

776
00:34:36.510 --> 00:34:39.329
<v Speaker 1>I want you, the listener, to just stop and put

777
00:34:39.369 --> 00:34:41.269
<v Speaker 1>yourself in the shoes of the Bates family for a second.

778
00:34:41.650 --> 00:34:44.210
<v Speaker 1>It is late 2025, maybe early 2026.

779
00:34:44.210 --> 00:34:46.690
<v Speaker 2>You are just going about your daily life. Right.

780
00:34:46.750 --> 00:34:49.349
<v Speaker 1>You're going to work. You're buying groceries. It had been

781
00:34:49.349 --> 00:34:52.519
<v Speaker 1>38 years since your son or your brother walked out

782
00:34:52.539 --> 00:34:54.599
<v Speaker 1>the front door wearing a white shirt and plaid pants

783
00:34:54.619 --> 00:34:55.579
<v Speaker 1>to go to a friend's funeral.

784
00:34:55.579 --> 00:35:00.340
<v Speaker 2>38 years. That is 38 missed birthdays. 38 Christmases, 38

785
00:35:00.340 --> 00:35:02.599
<v Speaker 2>years of waking up and wondering if today is the

786
00:35:02.639 --> 00:35:05.320
<v Speaker 2>day he walks back in. The grief is probably calloused over,

787
00:35:05.380 --> 00:35:06.840
<v Speaker 2>but the question is always there.

788
00:35:07.059 --> 00:35:07.340
<v Speaker 1>Always.

789
00:35:07.480 --> 00:35:07.820
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

790
00:35:08.039 --> 00:35:10.780
<v Speaker 1>And then there's a knock on your door. A detective

791
00:35:10.820 --> 00:35:13.280
<v Speaker 1>is standing on your porch holding a file and they say,

792
00:35:13.800 --> 00:35:14.460
<v Speaker 1>we found him.

793
00:35:14.659 --> 00:35:17.880
<v Speaker 2>The sheer emotional weight of that moment is staggering.

794
00:35:18.179 --> 00:35:21.539
<v Speaker 1>The fact that a microscopic biological sample pulled from a

795
00:35:21.579 --> 00:35:23.260
<v Speaker 1>bone sitting in a dusty coal bin.

796
00:35:23.480 --> 00:35:27.090
<v Speaker 2>It was effectively crowdsourced through the digitized family trees of

797
00:35:27.190 --> 00:35:30.179
<v Speaker 2>modern strangers. To finally give this family an answer.

798
00:35:30.380 --> 00:35:31.800
<v Speaker 1>It is nothing short of miraculous.

799
00:35:32.199 --> 00:35:35.460
<v Speaker 2>It is the ultimate vindication of science serving humanity.

800
00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:36.239
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely.

801
00:35:36.300 --> 00:35:40.570
<v Speaker 2>To finalize the process, in February of 2026, the investigators

802
00:35:40.610 --> 00:35:44.610
<v Speaker 2>took a new direct DNA swab from the immediate family members.

803
00:35:44.909 --> 00:35:46.210
<v Speaker 1>Just to be absolutely sure.

804
00:35:46.289 --> 00:35:49.510
<v Speaker 2>They sent it back to UNTCHI to perform a traditional

805
00:35:49.630 --> 00:35:52.489
<v Speaker 2>STR DNA test against the bone sample. And this time,

806
00:35:52.550 --> 00:35:55.030
<v Speaker 2>because the direct relatives were in the system, it was

807
00:35:55.070 --> 00:35:57.030
<v Speaker 2>a definitive, undeniable match.

808
00:35:57.650 --> 00:36:00.190
<v Speaker 1>The 38-year mystery of the John Doe in the crawlspace

809
00:36:00.230 --> 00:36:00.730
<v Speaker 1>was closed.

810
00:36:00.909 --> 00:36:02.929
<v Speaker 2>Bryant Keith Bates finally got his name back.

811
00:36:03.389 --> 00:36:07.250
<v Speaker 1>It is a monumental, hard-fought victory. But one of the

812
00:36:07.289 --> 00:36:10.510
<v Speaker 1>things that makes this specific deep dive so compelling is

813
00:36:10.570 --> 00:36:13.559
<v Speaker 1>how the original local news source presented this story.

814
00:36:13.960 --> 00:36:15.739
<v Speaker 2>This is a really important point. Right.

815
00:36:15.900 --> 00:36:21.340
<v Speaker 1>Because when ABC 3340 published Hannah Bazinow's article in February 2026,

816
00:36:21.340 --> 00:36:24.000
<v Speaker 1>they didn't present this case in a vacuum.

817
00:36:24.159 --> 00:36:27.699
<v Speaker 2>No, they didn't. They placed this incredible scientific triumph right

818
00:36:27.780 --> 00:36:31.940
<v Speaker 2>in the middle of a very chaotic, very busy local reality.

819
00:36:32.360 --> 00:36:34.239
<v Speaker 1>And that brings us to the ripple effect of this

820
00:36:34.280 --> 00:36:38.070
<v Speaker 1>technology and the broader capistry of the justice system surrounding it.

821
00:36:38.340 --> 00:36:41.719
<v Speaker 2>The broader context is crucial because it highlights why efficiency

822
00:36:41.739 --> 00:36:45.539
<v Speaker 2>in forensic science is so desperately needed. The article notes

823
00:36:45.579 --> 00:36:46.679
<v Speaker 2>a vital statistic.

824
00:36:46.760 --> 00:36:47.139
<v Speaker 1>What was it?

825
00:36:47.400 --> 00:36:50.219
<v Speaker 2>The identification of Bryant Keith Bates is only the second

826
00:36:50.320 --> 00:36:55.039
<v Speaker 2>positive DNA match utilizing forensic genetic genealogy in this specific jurisdiction.

827
00:36:55.239 --> 00:36:56.000
<v Speaker 1>Only the second?

828
00:36:56.239 --> 00:36:58.920
<v Speaker 2>Yes, but the very next sentence is the kicker. There

829
00:36:58.960 --> 00:37:02.300
<v Speaker 2>are 26 more cold cases currently in the pipeline, actively

830
00:37:02.340 --> 00:37:05.550
<v Speaker 2>being analyzed through this exact same FGG process.

831
00:37:05.869 --> 00:37:09.849
<v Speaker 1>Think about the math on that. 26 pending cases. If

832
00:37:09.909 --> 00:37:13.289
<v Speaker 1>it took 38 years of suffering to resolve just one case...

833
00:37:13.519 --> 00:37:17.150
<v Speaker 1>Clearing 26 cases isn't just an administrative victory of closing

834
00:37:17.230 --> 00:37:17.769
<v Speaker 1>old files.

835
00:37:18.170 --> 00:37:22.889
<v Speaker 2>No, you are talking about addressing literal centuries of collective,

836
00:37:23.110 --> 00:37:24.469
<v Speaker 2>unresolved trauma.

837
00:37:24.829 --> 00:37:28.559
<v Speaker 1>You are talking about lifting a dark, suffocating cloud off

838
00:37:28.619 --> 00:37:31.900
<v Speaker 1>of dozens of local families who would resign themselves to

839
00:37:31.940 --> 00:37:34.400
<v Speaker 1>the belief that society had forgotten their loved ones.

840
00:37:34.719 --> 00:37:38.710
<v Speaker 2>FGG is systematically emptying the crawlspaces of history.

841
00:37:38.869 --> 00:37:41.150
<v Speaker 1>Oh, that's a powerful way to say it. emptying the

842
00:37:41.190 --> 00:37:41.869
<v Speaker 1>crawl spaces.

843
00:37:41.989 --> 00:37:46.130
<v Speaker 2>It represents a tectonic structural shift in how justice can operate.

844
00:37:46.690 --> 00:37:49.449
<v Speaker 2>But as you mentioned, the publisher surrounded this profound story

845
00:37:49.469 --> 00:37:52.269
<v Speaker 2>with a sidebar of other trending local news from that

846
00:37:52.329 --> 00:37:55.670
<v Speaker 2>specific week in August of 2026. Let's talk about that sidebar.

847
00:37:55.769 --> 00:37:58.610
<v Speaker 2>Analyzing it provides a fascinating, almost jarring look at the

848
00:37:58.750 --> 00:38:00.969
<v Speaker 2>ecosystem in which these detectives are operating.

849
00:38:01.349 --> 00:38:03.989
<v Speaker 1>It's wild to look at the contrast. So what does

850
00:38:04.030 --> 00:38:06.449
<v Speaker 1>this all mean? What else was happening in Alabama while

851
00:38:06.469 --> 00:38:08.179
<v Speaker 1>they were solving a four decade old murder?

852
00:38:08.489 --> 00:38:10.610
<v Speaker 2>Well, you look at the headlines the source provided.

853
00:38:10.690 --> 00:38:13.829
<v Speaker 1>You have a massive story about the Tuscaloosa police and

854
00:38:13.849 --> 00:38:18.050
<v Speaker 1>the FBI executing a coordinated operation that resulted in 90

855
00:38:18.050 --> 00:38:20.849
<v Speaker 1>arrests and the recovery of 10 illegal firearms.

856
00:38:21.170 --> 00:38:24.590
<v Speaker 2>That is a massive expenditure of manpower and resources.

857
00:38:24.920 --> 00:38:27.619
<v Speaker 1>Right. Then you scroll down and see a story about

858
00:38:28.059 --> 00:38:30.760
<v Speaker 1>the courts upholding a death sentence for a man convicted

859
00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:33.880
<v Speaker 1>of a double murder in Talladega County that happened all

860
00:38:33.900 --> 00:38:35.940
<v Speaker 1>the way back in 2001. Still litigating it 25 years later.

861
00:38:35.980 --> 00:38:36.340
<v Speaker 2>And then....

862
00:38:38.090 --> 00:38:41.809
<v Speaker 1>You see a horrific, tragic headline about two people being

863
00:38:41.869 --> 00:38:45.110
<v Speaker 1>criminally charged in the fentanyl overdose death of a 10-month-old baby.

864
00:38:45.329 --> 00:38:46.050
<v Speaker 2>Heartbreaking.

865
00:38:46.150 --> 00:38:48.340
<v Speaker 1>When you put all of those pieces together, what is

866
00:38:48.409 --> 00:38:50.800
<v Speaker 1>the picture it paints of the modern justice system?

867
00:38:51.099 --> 00:38:53.239
<v Speaker 2>It paints a picture of a system that is drowning.

868
00:38:53.539 --> 00:38:54.440
<v Speaker 1>Drowning in work.

869
00:38:54.699 --> 00:38:59.079
<v Speaker 2>It is heavily burdened, chaotic, and operating at absolute maximum capacity.

870
00:38:59.440 --> 00:39:03.289
<v Speaker 2>Police forces and district attorneys are managing massive multi-agency sweeps,

871
00:39:03.510 --> 00:39:04.389
<v Speaker 2>netting 90 arrests.

872
00:39:05.199 --> 00:39:09.380
<v Speaker 1>They are navigating the horrific modern epidemic of opioid overdoses

873
00:39:09.619 --> 00:39:10.420
<v Speaker 1>involving infants.

874
00:39:10.579 --> 00:39:14.050
<v Speaker 2>And simultaneously, the appellate courts are still bogged down litigating

875
00:39:14.090 --> 00:39:16.429
<v Speaker 2>death penalty cases from a quarter of a century ago.

876
00:39:16.750 --> 00:39:19.710
<v Speaker 1>The machinery of justice is desperately trying to keep its

877
00:39:19.730 --> 00:39:21.769
<v Speaker 1>head above the water of present day crime.

878
00:39:21.989 --> 00:39:25.010
<v Speaker 2>Which makes the resolution of a 1988 cold case seem

879
00:39:25.190 --> 00:39:26.070
<v Speaker 2>almost impossible.

880
00:39:26.489 --> 00:39:29.849
<v Speaker 1>In a system that overwhelmed, old cases get buried under

881
00:39:29.889 --> 00:39:32.739
<v Speaker 1>the avalanche of the new. The detectives simply do not

882
00:39:32.780 --> 00:39:35.820
<v Speaker 1>have the thousands of hours of shoe leather required to

883
00:39:35.920 --> 00:39:38.579
<v Speaker 1>manually reinvestigate a 38-year-old file.

884
00:39:38.840 --> 00:39:42.940
<v Speaker 2>But FGG emerges here as a beacon of incredible efficiency.

885
00:39:43.599 --> 00:39:46.440
<v Speaker 2>It is a technological tool that cuts straight through the backlog.

886
00:39:46.719 --> 00:39:48.800
<v Speaker 1>It does the heavy lifting in a lab in Texas.

887
00:39:48.960 --> 00:39:51.639
<v Speaker 2>Exactly. Allowing local police to focus on the crisis of

888
00:39:51.679 --> 00:39:54.409
<v Speaker 2>the day without abandoning the victims of the past.

889
00:39:54.949 --> 00:39:57.570
<v Speaker 1>That is the administrative value of the science. But then

890
00:39:57.869 --> 00:39:59.630
<v Speaker 1>you look at the other side of that new sidebar,

891
00:39:59.730 --> 00:40:04.010
<v Speaker 1>the completely mundane civic updates, and it adds a profound

892
00:40:04.050 --> 00:40:05.469
<v Speaker 1>philosophical layer to the story.

893
00:40:05.659 --> 00:40:07.480
<v Speaker 2>The juxtaposition is staggering.

894
00:40:07.619 --> 00:40:12.079
<v Speaker 1>Yes. You have this sweeping multi-generational epic of a 38-year-old

895
00:40:12.179 --> 00:40:16.409
<v Speaker 1>murder finally being solved through cutting-edge genetics. And right next

896
00:40:16.449 --> 00:40:19.530
<v Speaker 1>to it, on the exact same digital page, there is

897
00:40:19.610 --> 00:40:23.389
<v Speaker 1>breaking news about an SUV accidentally crashing through the glass

898
00:40:23.429 --> 00:40:27.170
<v Speaker 1>doors of a pool supply store called Swimrite in Rocky

899
00:40:27.210 --> 00:40:27.789
<v Speaker 1>Ridge Plaza.

900
00:40:27.889 --> 00:40:30.409
<v Speaker 2>No injuries, just broken glass and chlorine.

901
00:40:30.570 --> 00:40:33.840
<v Speaker 1>Right. And below that, there's an article patiently explaining the

902
00:40:33.920 --> 00:40:37.380
<v Speaker 1>engineering reasons why bridge repairs in the town of Calera

903
00:40:37.440 --> 00:40:39.500
<v Speaker 1>require more than just patching the concrete.

904
00:40:39.679 --> 00:40:41.179
<v Speaker 2>Just everyday civic maintenance.

905
00:40:41.480 --> 00:40:44.059
<v Speaker 1>Then there's a civic update urging residents of Cullman to

906
00:40:44.099 --> 00:40:48.019
<v Speaker 1>prepare for Bowes Law. A new regulation concerning dog ownership.

907
00:40:48.400 --> 00:40:51.530
<v Speaker 2>And finally, a business piece announcing the opening of a

908
00:40:51.639 --> 00:40:54.489
<v Speaker 2>second medical cannabis dispensary in Talladega.

909
00:40:54.730 --> 00:40:59.090
<v Speaker 1>It creates a perfectly preserved cross-section of human existence in 2026.

910
00:40:59.090 --> 00:41:05.710
<v Speaker 2>You have profound, earth-shattering tragedy alongside the most completely ordinary, mundane,

911
00:41:05.849 --> 00:41:09.329
<v Speaker 2>civic life all happening simultaneously on the same Tuesday.

912
00:41:09.570 --> 00:41:12.070
<v Speaker 1>It really hits you. Think back to our opening thought.

913
00:41:12.590 --> 00:41:15.510
<v Speaker 1>While the Bates family's entire emotional world was paralyzed by

914
00:41:15.550 --> 00:41:18.349
<v Speaker 1>that unanswered question in 1988, the rest of the world

915
00:41:18.389 --> 00:41:19.670
<v Speaker 1>just stubbornly kept turning.

916
00:41:19.710 --> 00:41:20.070
<v Speaker 2>Kept turning.

917
00:41:20.269 --> 00:41:24.429
<v Speaker 1>For 38 years, people kept buying pool supplies. Civic engineers

918
00:41:24.510 --> 00:41:28.730
<v Speaker 1>kept repairing bridges. City councils argued about dog leash laws

919
00:41:29.110 --> 00:41:31.829
<v Speaker 1>and zoned commercial real estate for cannabis dispensaries.

920
00:41:32.090 --> 00:41:37.320
<v Speaker 2>The relentless mundane machinery of human society never stops moving forward.

921
00:41:37.539 --> 00:41:40.880
<v Speaker 1>Even when an individual's life is tragically paused and buried

922
00:41:40.920 --> 00:41:41.539
<v Speaker 1>in a coal bin.

923
00:41:41.920 --> 00:41:44.539
<v Speaker 2>The world is indifferent to our personal tragedies, and I

924
00:41:44.579 --> 00:41:47.960
<v Speaker 2>think that inherent indifference is exactly why the resolution of

925
00:41:47.980 --> 00:41:51.440
<v Speaker 2>these cold cases resonates so deeply with the public consciousness.

926
00:41:51.699 --> 00:41:53.099
<v Speaker 1>Because it defies that indifference.

927
00:41:53.280 --> 00:41:57.070
<v Speaker 2>Yes. The application of forensic genetic genealogy is a deliberate

928
00:41:57.119 --> 00:42:01.159
<v Speaker 2>interruption of that mundane machinery. It is a moment where society,

929
00:42:01.449 --> 00:42:05.070
<v Speaker 2>through the proxy of these dedicated scientists and investigators, collectively

930
00:42:05.110 --> 00:42:07.449
<v Speaker 2>stops and says, no, we haven't forgotten you.

931
00:42:07.530 --> 00:42:11.769
<v Speaker 1>The exterminator doing his grimy morning job. the anthropologists meticulously

932
00:42:11.829 --> 00:42:15.369
<v Speaker 1>measuring a femur bone with calipers, the genealogists drinking coffee

933
00:42:15.389 --> 00:42:17.789
<v Speaker 1>while clicking through 1940 census records.

934
00:42:17.929 --> 00:42:21.230
<v Speaker 2>They all represent a society that absolutely refuses to let

935
00:42:21.250 --> 00:42:22.650
<v Speaker 2>the past simply vanish.

936
00:42:23.150 --> 00:42:26.230
<v Speaker 1>It is a powerful thought, and it beautifully synthesizes the

937
00:42:26.289 --> 00:42:27.789
<v Speaker 1>incredible journey we've taken today.

938
00:42:27.909 --> 00:42:28.409
<v Speaker 2>It really does.

939
00:42:28.590 --> 00:42:31.429
<v Speaker 1>Let's look back at the ground we've covered. We started

940
00:42:31.670 --> 00:42:35.739
<v Speaker 1>in 1988 with a 21-year-old young man wearing plaid pants

941
00:42:36.179 --> 00:42:39.360
<v Speaker 1>and a Coca-Cola watch disappearing into the ether on his

942
00:42:39.400 --> 00:42:40.059
<v Speaker 1>way to a funeral.

943
00:42:40.469 --> 00:42:43.989
<v Speaker 2>We moved through an agonizingly silent 16 years.

944
00:42:44.349 --> 00:42:47.449
<v Speaker 1>Ending with a grim, shocking discovery beneath the floorboards of

945
00:42:47.510 --> 00:42:49.289
<v Speaker 1>a rental home in 2004.

946
00:42:49.289 --> 00:42:52.989
<v Speaker 2>We watched as the analog system of paper manila folders

947
00:42:53.070 --> 00:42:56.750
<v Speaker 2>failed him. And we saw how early digital databases like

948
00:42:56.829 --> 00:43:00.760
<v Speaker 2>Namu's and Codeus were fundamentally unequipped to make the connection.

949
00:43:01.360 --> 00:43:05.260
<v Speaker 1>And finally, we witnessed the astonishing technological breakthrough of forensic

950
00:43:05.280 --> 00:43:09.969
<v Speaker 1>genetic genealogy in 2025 and 2026. a science that mapped

951
00:43:10.070 --> 00:43:13.150
<v Speaker 1>hundreds of thousands of genetic markers, reached backward through a

952
00:43:13.230 --> 00:43:16.320
<v Speaker 1>century of public records, and finally gave Brian Keith Bates

953
00:43:16.360 --> 00:43:16.909
<v Speaker 1>his name back.

954
00:43:17.380 --> 00:43:19.929
<v Speaker 2>It is a testament to the sheer persistence of memory

955
00:43:20.239 --> 00:43:22.599
<v Speaker 2>and the refusal of science to accept a dead end.

956
00:43:22.940 --> 00:43:25.360
<v Speaker 1>But as we wrap up this analysis, the mechanics of

957
00:43:25.380 --> 00:43:28.619
<v Speaker 1>this breakthrough raise a massive, lingering philosophical question.

958
00:43:28.900 --> 00:43:32.340
<v Speaker 2>I want you, the listener, to deeply consider the implications

959
00:43:32.380 --> 00:43:35.960
<v Speaker 2>of where this technology is heading. We are watching forensic

960
00:43:36.039 --> 00:43:42.349
<v Speaker 2>genetic genealogy transition from a novel experimental last resort into

961
00:43:42.570 --> 00:43:44.889
<v Speaker 2>standard law enforcement operating procedure.

962
00:43:44.949 --> 00:43:48.260
<v Speaker 1>We just saw that one county in Alabama has 26

963
00:43:48.260 --> 00:43:49.980
<v Speaker 1>more cases in the pipeline right now.

964
00:43:50.320 --> 00:43:53.820
<v Speaker 2>If our DNA connects us all in this inescapable, highly

965
00:43:53.880 --> 00:43:58.239
<v Speaker 2>digitized web of family trees, are we entering an era

966
00:43:58.300 --> 00:44:02.659
<v Speaker 2>where anonymity and death might actually become scientifically impossible? Wow.

967
00:44:03.010 --> 00:44:03.610
<v Speaker 1>That is heavy.

968
00:44:03.789 --> 00:44:07.239
<v Speaker 2>Are we witnessing the literal permanent end of the cold

969
00:44:07.280 --> 00:44:08.360
<v Speaker 2>case forever?

970
00:44:08.500 --> 00:44:11.900
<v Speaker 1>If the science dictates that every single unknown person, no

971
00:44:11.940 --> 00:44:14.920
<v Speaker 1>matter how degraded their bones are, can eventually be linked

972
00:44:14.980 --> 00:44:16.199
<v Speaker 1>back to a distant cousin.

973
00:44:16.360 --> 00:44:18.000
<v Speaker 2>Triangulated through a census record.

974
00:44:18.079 --> 00:44:20.719
<v Speaker 1>And reattached to their family name, then the ghosts of

975
00:44:20.739 --> 00:44:23.980
<v Speaker 1>the past are finally irrevocably running out of places to hide.

976
00:44:24.300 --> 00:44:26.340
<v Speaker 2>That is exactly the reality we are moving toward.

977
00:44:26.519 --> 00:44:28.059
<v Speaker 1>That is a thought that will stick with me for

978
00:44:28.079 --> 00:44:31.079
<v Speaker 1>a very long time. The idea that anonymity itself, the

979
00:44:31.119 --> 00:44:34.199
<v Speaker 1>concept of dying unknown, might become extinct.

980
00:44:34.300 --> 00:44:35.199
<v Speaker 2>It's a brand new world.

981
00:44:35.639 --> 00:44:37.119
<v Speaker 1>It brings us right back to the beginning of our

982
00:44:37.139 --> 00:44:41.230
<v Speaker 1>deep dive. For 38 years, the diagnostic tools of the

983
00:44:41.269 --> 00:44:46.250
<v Speaker 1>justice system were completely broken. The waters were hopelessly suffocatingly murky.

984
00:44:46.409 --> 00:44:49.679
<v Speaker 2>But finally, after decades of waiting in the dark, the

985
00:44:49.739 --> 00:44:51.300
<v Speaker 2>science caught up to the tragedy.

986
00:44:51.659 --> 00:44:55.079
<v Speaker 1>The genetic map cleared the waters, and the truth was

987
00:44:55.139 --> 00:44:58.280
<v Speaker 1>right there, visible for everyone to see. Thanks for joining

988
00:44:58.320 --> 00:44:59.940
<v Speaker 1>us on the deep dive. We'll catch you next time.
