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Speaker 1: You know, there's this specific trope in horror movies that

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I've I've always found to be just the most unsettling thing.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, which one.

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Speaker 1: It isn't the jump scare. Yeah, And it isn't the

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guy in the mass chasing you with the chainsaw or whatever.

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It's that scene at.

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Speaker 2: The very end, right, the false ending, exactly.

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Speaker 1: The false ending. The sun is coming up and the

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police have finally arrived. The music swells, and the survivors

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are all wrapped in those shock blankets, thinking they're safe. Right.

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You think it's over, You think the monster is dead,

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and then the camera just pans down to the dirt

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and the ground starts to shift, just a.

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Speaker 2: Little bit, sand reaching up from the ground.

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Speaker 1: And reaching up because the monster isn't dead. It was

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just waiting. And I feel like, I really think that

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is exactly where we're living right now in the public consciousness.

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Speaker 2: With these zombie scams.

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Speaker 1: Yes, bomby scanals, these events that we're told are totally finished.

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The verdicts are read, the cell doors slam shut, and

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the media tells us, Okay, show's over, nothing to see here,

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go back to your lives.

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Speaker 2: But the stench, it never leaves.

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Speaker 1: The stench never really leaves the room.

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Speaker 2: It's the stench of unfinished business, I think. And usually

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when a scandal just refuses to die, it's because the

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root system is much much deeper than the public was

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ever allowed to see. We trapped off the reads, we

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chalk off the weeds, but the roots are still wrapping

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around the entire foundation of the house.

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Speaker 1: That is a terrifying but honestly perfect image for what

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we're doing today. Welcome to Thrilling Threads. I'm your host,

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and I'm going to tell you today's thread is one

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of those that if you pull it too hard, you

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might just unravel the whole sweater.

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Speaker 2: And I'm here to make sure we don't just pull

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the thread, but we actually look at what's being exposed underneath,

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because usually when we talk about the specific topic, the

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conversation gets completely hijacked by gossip. Oh absolutely, it comes

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about who was at the party, who flew on the plane.

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But today we are really looking at the machinery.

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Speaker 1: Machinery. I like that because we are of course talking

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about the Epstein files, but not the old one, well,

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not the ones you heard about years ago. We were

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talking about the massive twenty twenty six Department of Justice release.

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Speaker 2: The big dump, the big one.

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Speaker 1: Just when the world thought they knew the shape of

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this thing, the DOJ dumps millions, literally millions of documents.

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It's staggering, and suddenly the map of the world just

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looks different. We're seeing resignations in countries I didn't even

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know where involved. We're seeing new.

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Speaker 2: Footage, a total domino effect.

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Speaker 1: A domino effect that is toppling people who probably thought

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they were completely safe, people who were sleeping soundly in

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their beds for the last decade.

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Speaker 2: It is a fascinating case study in information transparency, or rather,

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I guess the failure of containment.

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Speaker 1: Failure of containment is a great way to put it.

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Speaker 2: For years, there was this concerted effort to contain this network,

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to isolate it to one bad actor and one bad accomplice.

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But these new files they proved that this wasn't just

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a criminal enterprise, it as a system. It was a

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systemic failure of global proportions. We're talking about a web

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that entangled the British monarchy, the Norwegian government, trade secrets,

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and yes, somehow dinosaur hunting and the Dakotas, which.

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Speaker 1: Is look, we're going to get to the dinosaurs. I

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promise you, if you're listening, we will get to the dinosaurs,

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because I still cannot wrap my head around it.

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Speaker 2: It's bizarre.

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Speaker 1: It is so bizarre. But before we dive into the

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deep end here, we do have to do the responsible thing.

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We are friends having a chat and we like to

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keep it light where we can. But the source material

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we are covering today is heavy, very heavy. It deals

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with trafficking, It deals with the abuse and exploitation of miners.

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Speaker 2: It's distressing stuff. And while we are analyzing the political

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and social fallout, we can never lose sight of the

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fact that at the center of this spider web are

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real human beings who are hurt real people. Because this

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girl deserves the truth. That is the rallying cry we

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are hearing from the survivors this year.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely so if you're listening out there, just know that's

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the water we're swimming in today. Now, let's start with

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the silence.

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Speaker 2: The loud sound islends.

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Speaker 1: Exactly because for a scandal that is making this much noise,

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the person at the center of it is being remarkably quiet.

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Speaker 2: The silence of Gislaine Maxwell.

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Speaker 1: The date was February ninth, I feel like everyone in

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Washington had this circled in red ink on their calendars.

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Speaker 2: The House Oversight and Government Reform Committee.

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Speaker 1: Yes, they finally dragged her, well virtually at least, out

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of her cell to testify, and.

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Speaker 2: The expectation was just sky high. You really have to

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understand the context here. She's already convicted.

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Speaker 1: Right, She's been away for a while, She's been.

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Speaker 2: In prison since that twenty twenty one condition. She is

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serving twenty years.

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Speaker 1: Just a long time, A very long time.

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Speaker 2: In the world of criminal justice. Usually, when you are

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that far down the road and the DOJ releases a

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mountain of evidence against you and your associates, you start

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to think about self preservation.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you want a deal.

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Speaker 2: You start to think maybe if I talk, I can

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get better conditions, Maybe I can get a reduced sentence.

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Speaker 1: That's what I would think. I mean, the ship has

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already sun. Why are you still bailing water? The committee

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wanted to know about the enablers.

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Speaker 2: The people in the shadows.

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Speaker 1: The DOJ files have millions of pages, but there are

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these massive black holes where contexts should be. They wanted

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her to connect the dots. Who knew what, when did

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they know it?

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Speaker 2: And what happened, and she gave them nothing nothing. She

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sat there via video link from federal prison, and she

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pleaded the Fifth over and over and over again.

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Speaker 1: I want to stop on this because it drives me

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completely insane. You are in prison, you are literally wearing

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the jumpsuit. Yes, you've been convicted by a jury of

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your peers. What self are you incriminating? You're already incriminated.

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Speaker 2: Well, see this is where the legal strategy gets super interesting,

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and it tells us a lot about what she's actually

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afraid of.

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Speaker 1: Okay, break that down.

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Speaker 2: Yes, she is serving a federal sentence, but the Fifth

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Amendment protects you from any testimony that could expose you

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to further criminal prosecution.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so like what parking tickets tax FRAU.

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Speaker 2: But the bigger thinks state charges. The federal government has

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had its turn. But if she admits to a specific

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act in that deposition, say facilitating a meeting in Manhattan

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on a specific day in two thousand and five, that

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opens her up to prosecution by the Manhattan District attorney.

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Or if she admits to something that happened in Florida

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or New Mexico, double jeopardy only applies. To being tried

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for the same crime by the same sovereign. Oh, I see,

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a state and the federal government are different sovereigns.

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Speaker 1: So she's basically navigating a minefield right now. If she

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steps one inch to the left, boom, New York indiczer,

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one inch to the right, boom, New Mexico, indiczer.

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Speaker 2: Exactly. But there is a second layer to the silence.

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It's not just about legal jeopardy.

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Speaker 1: It's about leverage, leverage from inside prison.

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Speaker 2: Yes, in the prison system and in the criminal underworld. Honestly,

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knowledge is currency. As long as she stays silent, she

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is the vault.

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Speaker 1: She holds the keys, and if she opens the wall, she.

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Speaker 2: Loses her value. And she potentially makes very powerful enemies

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who are currently sleeping quite well because she hasn't named them. Wow,

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by taking the fifth she is signaling to the enablers,

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the people whose names haven't come out yet, I'm still

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holding the line. I'm still protecting you.

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Speaker 1: That is chilling. It's like a mafia movie. Yeah, it's

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oh Marta.

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Speaker 2: It is exactly Olmerta, and it is incredibly frustrating for

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the Oversight Committee. You had Republicans and Democrats there.

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Speaker 1: Which let's be honest, Getting them to agree on lunch

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is hard enough these days.

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Speaker 2: Very true, but they were completely united in this fury.

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They want a clean house. They know this scandal is

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a rot that is damaging the reputation of the entire

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political and business class. They want to cut out the cancer.

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Speaker 1: But Maxwell is refusing to hand over the scalpel. She

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won't do it, so she's holding the line. But the

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thing about damming up a river is that eventually the

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water finds a crack somewhere else. And while she's sitting

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there silent in Florida, looking across the Atlantic, the dam

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is definitely breaking in London.

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Speaker 2: Oh, London is a mess. Right now, we have to

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talk about Prince Andrew or, as the police files are

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calling him now, Andrew mount Baton Windsor.

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Speaker 1: Can we just pause on that, Andrew mount Batton Windsor no, hrh, No, Prince.

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Speaker 2: Just Andrew, just a regular citizen on paper, it.

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Speaker 1: Sounds like a guy who works in accounting.

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Speaker 2: It's a deliberate stripping of status. He was stripped of

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his titles by King Charles back in twenty twenty four,

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evicted from the Royal Lodge.

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Speaker 1: Which was a huge deal at the time a massive deal.

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Speaker 2: But what's happening now with these twenty twenty six files

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is moving this from family disgrace to national security threat.

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Speaker 1: We have breaking news from the Thames Valley Police. They

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confirmed they are quote assessing claims end quote. But the

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thing that blew my mind in these new documents it

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isn't the parties, It isn't the social stuff. It's the emails,

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the emails, the trade secrets leak. This is wild, This

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is so wild. So back in twenty ten, Andrew is

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the UK's Special Representative for International Trade and Investment, which

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honestly to me always sounded like a completely made up job.

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Speaker 2: A ceremonial title basically yeah.

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Speaker 1: Like go shake hands and eat distinctively small sandwiches.

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Speaker 2: Is a role that involves a lot of ceremony, yes,

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but it also comes with clearance. You are receiving confidential

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briefings from the government. You are the face of UK

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economic strategy abroad.

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Speaker 1: Right, You're representing the Crown's business interest exactly.

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Speaker 2: And the files show that Andrew was receiving official reports

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about his visits to Hong Kong, Singapore, Vietnam and highly

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specific investment briefs on Afghanistan.

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Speaker 1: Afghanistan in twenty ten.

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Speaker 2: Hellman Province, to be exact, Hellman.

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Speaker 1: That was the center of the conflict, that was an

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active war zone. Why is the Royal Trade Envoy getting

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investment briefs on a war.

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Speaker 2: Zone reconstruction contracts, mining rights, lithium infrastructure. That information is

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worth billions to the right people. Oh wow, knowing where

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the UK government is planning to pour money or where

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they are pulling out that is market moving information.

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Speaker 1: And here is the detail that made my jaw just

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hit the floor.

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Speaker 2: The timestamp, the five minute gap.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, Andrew receives a confidential report from a special advisor.

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It lands in his inbox and literally five minutes later,

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five minutes he forwards it to Jeffrey Epstein.

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Speaker 2: Think about that action for a second. You get a

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document marked confidential, you don't read it, digest it, and

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then days later mention it in casual conversation. You immediately

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reflexively forward it to a financier in New York.

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Speaker 1: I don't even text my wife back that fast.

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Speaker 2: It implies a reporting structure.

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Speaker 1: Whoa say that again?

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Speaker 2: It implies that he was reporting in in the intelligence world.

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This looks like asset recruitment.

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Speaker 1: You break that down for us.

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Speaker 2: You have someone in a position of power Andrew, who

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has access to non public government information, and you have

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a handler Epstein, who has cultivated a relationship where that

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asset feels compelled or obligated to share that information immediately.

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Speaker 1: So Ft wasn't just a bad friend. He was essentially

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running a royal asset.

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Speaker 2: That is the implication that Thames Valley Police and the

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intelligence communities have to be looking at right now. Why

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did Epstein need to know about Afghan reconstrucuction? Was he

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trading on it following the money exactly? Was he shorting

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companies involved in the region, or was he using that

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information to trade favors with other.

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Speaker 1: Governments like, hey, I know what the British are planning

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in Helmant.

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Speaker 2: That is a very powerful card to play at a

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diplomatic poker table.

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Speaker 1: It takes the whole Oh I stated his house because

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it was a convenient excuse and just incinerates it. This

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wasn't convenience, this was business. And their own family definitely

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knows it.

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Speaker 2: They absolutely know it. Look at the reaction Prince William

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and Kate, Princess Catherine.

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Speaker 1: They broke silence, which never happens. The royal motto is

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never complain, never explain. They usually just ride it out

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until the next Corgi is.

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Speaker 2: Born, exactly. But they released a statement they said they

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are quote deeply concerned and their thoughts remain focused on

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the victims.

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Speaker 1: And Royal speak deeply concerned is basically them running around

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with their hair on fires screaming.

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Speaker 2: It is a total severance. They are cutting the cord

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completely by focusing on the victims. They are morally distancing

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themselves from Andrew. They are signaling to the British public

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we are not him. He is not us right, we

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are on the side of justice. He is on the

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side of whatever this is. It's a survival mechanism for

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the monarchy. They realize that if they try to protect

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him now with these trade secret leaks, the institution itself

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might not survive the fallout.

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Speaker 1: It's brutal, but it makes sense. If your uncle is

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forwarding state secrets to a predator, you don't invite him

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to Christmas.

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Speaker 2: You certainly don't let him keep the keys to the palace.

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Speaker 1: But see, this is what's so fascinating. By the twenty

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twenty six release, we used to think of this as

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a US scandal with a sort of British subplot. But

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these files, they are dragging in the whole world. I

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was looking through the source Allen and I saw Norway

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and I thought, wait, what the Norwegians?

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Speaker 2: All right, the neutral good guys.

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Speaker 1: They're the good guys. They have great healthcare and fjords.

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What are they doing in here?

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Speaker 2: The scandal respects no borders at all. We need to

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talk about mona jewle monoicule.

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Speaker 1: And this isn't some random socialite.

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Speaker 2: This is a heavy hitter, absolute titan of diplomacy. She

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was central to the Oslo piece process. She has been

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the ambassador to the UN, to the UK. She's currently

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or was until this week, the Norwegian ambassador to Jordan

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and Iraq.

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Speaker 1: And she just quit, resigned.

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Speaker 2: Gone, citing a quote serious lapse.

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Speaker 1: In judgment because of the files.

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Speaker 2: Because the scrutiny on her past contacts with Epstein became

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completely unsustainable. Now, usually when a diplomat meets a financier,

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they can spin it. Oh, we were discussing global aid,

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we were discussing philanthropy.

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Speaker 1: H the standard cover story it is, but.

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Speaker 2: There was a detail in the Norwegian press that you

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really can't spin the will, but bil reports are coming

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out that Jeffrey Epstein left money to Monajul's family in

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his will.

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Speaker 1: Now you have to ask yourself why. I mean, I

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have friends I've known since kindergarten. If I die tomorrow,

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they're getting nothing. My cat gets the apartment, my wife

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gets the insurance. Why is an American financier leaving cash

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to the family of a top Norwegian diplomat.

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Speaker 2: That is the exact question that the Norwegian authorities are

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probing right now. They are investigating whether she received quote

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improper benefits because in the world of diplomacy money moving

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from a private influence peddler to a government official that

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smells like a bribe or a retainer or retainer for

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what though access legitimacy. Think about it. If you are

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Jeffrey Epstein and you are trying to rehabilitate your image

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after your two thousand and eight conviction, who do you

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need to be seen with?

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Speaker 1: Respectable people?

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Speaker 2: You need to be seen with the peacemakers, the nobel

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caliber people. If you are standing next to mona Jewel,

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you look like a statesman, you look like a humanitarian.

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Speaker 1: So he was basically buying reputation shield.

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Speaker 2: He was laundering his reputation through their credibility. And the

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fact that money changed hands or was slated to change hands,

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suggests that this wasn't just a casual friendship. It was

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a transaction.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: And for Norway, a country that prides itself on transparency

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and ethical governance, this is a massive blow. The Foreign

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minister calling it a breach of trust. That is diplomatic

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speak for this is an absolute catastrophe.

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Speaker 1: It really reinforces the idea that Epstein wasn't just a

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creep in a mansion. He was an intelligence broker. He

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collected people, He collected princes, he collected ambassadors. He embedded

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himself into the machinery of the state, whether that was

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the UK, or Norway or the US.

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Speaker 2: He was a virus in the operating system of the

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global elite.

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Speaker 1: That is terrifying, just terrifying. Okay, I need to take

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a breath, because not everything in these files is international

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espionage and high treason. Some of it is just weird,

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very weird, like I think I eat some bad cheese

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and I'm hallucinating weird.

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Speaker 2: We are definitely entering the surreal portion of the deep dive.

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Speaker 1: Yes, we have to talk about the dinosaurs.

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Speaker 2: I still can't believe this is real.

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Speaker 1: I swear to you, the listener, I am not making

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this up. The files include emails from twenty twelve between

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Epstein and Gislaine Maxwell. They are planning a trip, not

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to Paris, not to a private island, to the Pine

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Ridge Reservation in South Dakota for bad lands. And who

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was on the guest list for this little excursion? RFK Junior,

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Robert F.

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Speaker 2: Kennedy Junior and his family.

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Speaker 1: And what are they doing. Are they holding some secret

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political summit. No, they are digging for dinosaur bones.

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Speaker 2: A fossil hunting trip.

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Speaker 1: Can you picture this tableau? You have the air to

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the Kennedy dynasty, You have a British socialite, yes, you

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have a convicted sex offender, and they were all wearing

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khakis wandering around the desert looking for a t rex.

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Speaker 2: It sounds like a really bad indie movie script, but

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it actually tells us something very important about how Epstein

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operated in that twenty ten to twenty fifteen window.

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Speaker 1: Oh so, like, what's the strategy there?

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Speaker 2: Normalization? RFK Junior has come out and defended this. He says, Look,

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these were innocent family outings. I call them fossil excursions.

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My wife and kids were there. I didn't know the

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extent of his crimes.

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Speaker 1: He went on the plane twice for these trips, Yes.

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Speaker 2: Twice, and in a way that defense highlights exactly how

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Epstein hid in plane sight. He used geek chic, he

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used science. He presented himself not as a predator but

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as an eccentric billionaire philanthropy who just loved science.

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Speaker 1: Hey, come flaw my jet. We're gonna support paleontology.

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Speaker 2: Exactly Who says no to that? If a billionaire offers

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to fly you to a dig site to find a

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triceratops and you can bring your kids, it disarms you.

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It makes them seem wholesome. He can't be a monster.

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He loves dinosaurs. It's a very sophisticated form of camouflage.

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Speaker 1: It's the eccentric uncle camouflage. Oh, it's just Jeffrey. He's

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wear he likes bones. Meanwhile he's running a trafficking ring.

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Speaker 2: Precisely, it shows how willing high society was to accept

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the eccentric label as a cover for the criminal label.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of labels and weird mixups. We have to take

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a quick detour to clear the name of a legend.

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Because the Internet is a dangerous place and sometimes it

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gets things very, very wrong.

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Speaker 2: We do need to issue a correction on behalf of

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the skateboard community.

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Speaker 1: Tony Hawk, the Birdman, the man who could do a

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nine hundred. He got swept up in this twenty twenty

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six release, but not in the way you'd think.

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Speaker 2: The Internet saluts just went crazy.

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Speaker 1: People started finding the name Epstein connected to Tony Hawk's

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wedding photos, and suddenly Twitter or x or whatever we're

390
00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,400
calling it this week explodes. Tony Hawk got married on

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Epstein's island. Tony Hawk is an enabler.

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Speaker 2: Which would be a massive scandal if it were true.

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine do a kickflip on Little Saint James.

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Speaker 2: It's terrible.

395
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Speaker 1: I know, I'm sorry, but Tony Hawk had to go

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on Instagram to debunk this, and the explanation is honestly

397
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the funniest part of this whole dark saga.

398
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Speaker 2: It's a classic case of failing to do your homework.

399
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:31,519
Tony Hawk got married in Fiji in two thousand and six.

400
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Not the Caribbean Fiji, but the photographer at the wedding.

401
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Speaker 1: His name was Mark Epstein. Mark, no relation to Jeffrey whatsoever,

402
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Just a guy named Mark who takes nice photos of weddings.

403
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Speaker 2: But the Internet saw Epstein and wedding and Tony Hawk

404
00:18:44,599 --> 00:18:46,920
and just connected the dots with a permanent marker.

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Speaker 1: It's cautionary tale, right. We have millions of files here.

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There are gonna be names that match other names. There

407
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are gonna be wild coincidences.

408
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Speaker 2: It is when you have a data dump of this magnitude,

409
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literally millions of pages, the signal to noise can be tricky.

410
00:19:01,839 --> 00:19:05,200
You have legitimate smoking guns like Prince Andrew's emils, and

411
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then you have false positives like the wedem photographer. We

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have to be disciplined, We have to verify. We can't

413
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just ruin a skateboard legend's reputation because he hired a

414
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guy with an unfortunate last name.

415
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Speaker 1: Do a kickflip out of my board. Yeah, that's what

416
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I posted.

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Speaker 2: It was the perfect response, a little bit of levity,

418
00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:21,680
but it also shows the panic level.

419
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Speaker 1: Right now.

420
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Speaker 2: Everyone is scrambling, Everyone is checking their old calendars. Did

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I meet a guy named jeff in twenty eleven? Did

422
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I hire a photographer named Epstein. The paranoia is very real.

423
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Speaker 1: Okay, we've had our moment of levity with the skater

424
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,400
and the dinosaurs, but now we really need to pivot

425
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,799
back because buried in these files is something that isn't

426
00:19:40,839 --> 00:19:43,200
funny at all, and it isn't a mix up. It's

427
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a look directly into the eyes of the monster.

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Speaker 2: The twenty ten deposition video.

429
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Speaker 1: This footage surfaced in the new release. It's from a

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civil suit two years after his two thousand and eight conviction.

431
00:19:54,279 --> 00:19:57,319
So set the scene for us. He's done his sweetheart

432
00:19:57,400 --> 00:19:59,480
jail time in Florida, he's out, he's back in New

433
00:19:59,559 --> 00:20:05,359
York and he is being questioned by lawyers for the victims.

434
00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:07,359
You've seen the video. Describe the vibe in the room.

435
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:11,200
Speaker 2: It is chillingly mundane. He's sitting there, He's not powering,

436
00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:13,599
He's not ashamed. If anything, he looks bored. He looks

437
00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:17,200
like a CEO dealing with the minor compliance issue. Arrogant,

438
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:20,319
Beyond arrogant. It's a complete dismissal of the reality of

439
00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,720
the situation. The lawyers are asking him about as guilty plea.

440
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:26,680
They ask, essentially, do you have any remorse for what

441
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:28,720
you admitted to doing regarding a miner?

442
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Speaker 1: What does he say?

443
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Speaker 2: He starts playing games. He gets argumentative. But the most

444
00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,880
shocking part, the part that really reveals his psychology, is

445
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:36,920
when he claims he didn't know who his accuser was.

446
00:20:37,039 --> 00:20:40,880
Speaker 1: Wait, he pleaded guilty to a crime involving a specific victim.

447
00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:43,240
It's in the court record, and two years later he's

448
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saying I don't know her.

449
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Speaker 2: He says, I don't know who that is. The attorney

450
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,880
is visibly confused. You can see him pause on the tape.

451
00:20:50,039 --> 00:20:52,440
He asks, why did you plead guilty if you didn't

452
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know the identity of the victim? And Epstein just shrugs.

453
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,039
He basically implies that he pleaded guilty just to make

454
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the case go away. To him, the legal system wasn't

455
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:05,039
a judgment on his morality. It was just a business transaction.

456
00:21:05,519 --> 00:21:07,799
I paid a fine, I sat in a room for

457
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a few months, Now leave me alone.

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Speaker 1: That is pure gaslighting, but it's gas lighting on a

459
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legal record.

460
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:18,400
Speaker 2: It's sociopathic compartmentalization. In his mind, he hadn't done anything wrong.

461
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:20,359
He was just the victim of a system that didn't

462
00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:23,680
understand his lifestyle. And then when the lawyer presses him.

463
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,119
When the questions get too close to the truth, the

464
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,079
mask slips a little and he retreats into legal gibberish.

465
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Speaker 1: The Amendment salad.

466
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Speaker 2: It really is a salad. He starts rattling them off.

467
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,920
My attorneys advised me, I must assert my sixth Amendment right,

468
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my Fifth Amendment right, and my fourteenth Amendment right.

469
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:40,119
Speaker 1: He's just throwing numbers at the wall.

470
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Speaker 2: He is. He's trying to wrap himself in the Constitution.

471
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,440
But what you are seeing is a man who is

472
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terrified of losing control, yet refuses to give an inch.

473
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,480
He won't say I'm sorry, he won't say I did it.

474
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,720
He just says I have rights. It destroys the idea

475
00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:58,640
that he was ever rehabilitated. The two thousand and eight

476
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,039
jail time did nothing. He came out the other side

477
00:22:01,279 --> 00:22:04,480
just as defiant, just as predatory, and just as convinced

478
00:22:04,519 --> 00:22:06,079
of his own invincibility.

479
00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:10,119
Speaker 1: It's hard to watch, but I think it's necessary to

480
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:13,079
watch because it reminds us why this fight is still

481
00:22:13,079 --> 00:22:16,200
happening in twenty twenty six. He never cared, so the

482
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:17,319
world has to care for him.

483
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,000
Speaker 2: That's the transition from the silence of the perpetrator to

484
00:22:20,039 --> 00:22:21,319
the voice of the survivors, and.

485
00:22:21,279 --> 00:22:23,200
Speaker 1: That voice was louder than ever at the Super Bowl.

486
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:24,640
Speaker 2: Super Bowl twenty twenty six.

487
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,359
Speaker 1: I mean, talk about a platform. You've got one hundred

488
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:28,759
million people watching. You're sitting there, eating your nachos, waiting

489
00:22:28,799 --> 00:22:31,480
for the halftime show, expecting a beer commercial or a

490
00:22:31,519 --> 00:22:34,000
truck commercial, and then the screen just goes black.

491
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,680
Speaker 2: It was a PSA produced by World Without Exploitation, and

492
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:39,680
it sucked the air out of the room.

493
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:41,440
Speaker 1: Describe it for the listeners who might have missed it.

494
00:22:41,599 --> 00:22:42,880
I don't know how you could have missed it.

495
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:47,119
Speaker 2: It was visually very stark, no music, just visuals. It

496
00:22:47,279 --> 00:22:53,039
featured multiple women survivors standing together in a line. They

497
00:22:53,079 --> 00:22:55,279
were holding photos of their younger selves, the ages they

498
00:22:55,319 --> 00:22:58,039
were when they were trafficked, but on the photos there

499
00:22:58,079 --> 00:22:59,279
was black tape.

500
00:22:59,039 --> 00:23:01,359
Speaker 1: Over their mouths, the redaction bars.

501
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:04,480
Speaker 2: Exactly, the black bars of censorship. It was a powerful

502
00:23:04,599 --> 00:23:08,359
visual metaphor. The message was the abuse silenced us, then

503
00:23:09,039 --> 00:23:10,960
the government is silencing us now.

504
00:23:10,839 --> 00:23:13,640
Speaker 1: Because that's the core issue with this twenty twenty six release,

505
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,880
right right, we're calling at the release, but the survivors

506
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:17,920
are saying it's incomplete.

507
00:23:18,079 --> 00:23:21,279
Speaker 2: That's the controversy. We had the Epstein Files Transparency Act

508
00:23:21,319 --> 00:23:23,400
signed into law. It was supposed to open the books,

509
00:23:23,759 --> 00:23:26,720
but the survivors in this PSA made a specific claim.

510
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,079
They said, the government is holding six million files and

511
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:32,039
we have only seen about three million.

512
00:23:31,799 --> 00:23:34,119
Speaker 1: So we're literally only seeing half the movie.

513
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:36,759
Speaker 2: That is their contention. They claimed the other three million

514
00:23:36,799 --> 00:23:39,920
are still sealed or so heavily redacted that they are useless.

515
00:23:40,039 --> 00:23:44,640
Speaker 1: Three million files. That's not a folder, that's a library.

516
00:23:44,799 --> 00:23:46,279
What could possibly be in there?

517
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:50,119
Speaker 2: That's the question. The PSA ended with a direct call

518
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:54,160
to action. They called out Attorney General Pam Bondi by name.

519
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,960
They urged her to release the rest and the tagline

520
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,079
it just broke my heart. This girl deserves the truth.

521
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:04,039
Speaker 1: This girl deserves the truth. It really cuts through all

522
00:24:04,079 --> 00:24:06,799
the complexity. We can talk about trade secrets and diplomatic

523
00:24:06,799 --> 00:24:09,359
protocols and legal strategies all day, but at the end

524
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,079
of the day, there's a girl in a photo with

525
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,720
tape over her mouth who was failed by the system.

526
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:16,440
Speaker 2: And continues to be failed by the system as long

527
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,240
as those files are hidden. Their argument is that privacy

528
00:24:19,279 --> 00:24:22,960
protections shouldn't apply to a criminal conspiracy. They're saying, stop

529
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,240
protecting the powerful. Let us see the whole picture.

530
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:27,920
Speaker 1: So let's zoom out. Let's look at that picture. We

531
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,119
have spent the last hour pulling these threads. We've got

532
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,920
Gislaine Maxwell silent in a cell holding the keys to

533
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,200
the vault. We've got a print strip of his titles

534
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,039
because he was leaking secrets to a predator. We've got

535
00:24:39,039 --> 00:24:43,400
a Norwegian ambassador resigning in disgrace. We've got RFK Junior

536
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,680
digging for dinosaurs to normalize a criminal. We've got Tony

537
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:51,000
Hawk dodging internet mobs. We've got Epstein on tape denying reality.

538
00:24:51,319 --> 00:24:54,680
And we've got a group of survivors on national television

539
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,759
screaming that we still only know half the story.

540
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,200
Speaker 2: When you lay it out like that, it's just overwhelm

541
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,440
it really is. It paints a picture of a deep

542
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:04,359
state of corruption. And I don't mean that in the

543
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:06,440
conspiracy theory way. I mean it in the literal way.

544
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,920
A state within a state, a network of influence that

545
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:14,240
bypass laws, bypassed borders, and bypassed morality. The twenty twenty

546
00:25:14,279 --> 00:25:17,200
six release proves that this wet is still untangling the

547
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,920
shockwaves are still knocking people over. Years later.

548
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,160
Speaker 1: It feels like we're in the middle of the movie,

549
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:24,359
not the end. The zombie scandal is still walking.

550
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 2: We are definitely not at the end, and that brings

551
00:25:27,559 --> 00:25:30,319
us back to the survivor's point. If what we have

552
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,160
seen so far in just the released half of the

553
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:37,400
files was enough to disgrace a royal, topple an ambassador,

554
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,759
and panic half of Washington, you have to ask yourself

555
00:25:40,799 --> 00:25:41,240
the big.

556
00:25:41,079 --> 00:25:43,440
Speaker 1: Scary question, what is in the other half.

557
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:45,759
Speaker 2: What is in the three million files that the government

558
00:25:45,839 --> 00:25:48,640
is still afraid to show us? Who else is in there?

559
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,839
What other trade secrets, what other deals, what other compromises.

560
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:54,599
Speaker 1: That is the thought that is going to keep me

561
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,200
up at night. If this is the stuff they let

562
00:25:57,279 --> 00:25:59,079
us see, what is the stuff they are hiding?

563
00:25:59,200 --> 00:25:59,880
Speaker 2: It should keep us.

564
00:26:00,519 --> 00:26:03,279
Speaker 1: We want to hear from you. This is thrilling threads,

565
00:26:03,279 --> 00:26:04,680
and we want to know what you think about this

566
00:26:04,799 --> 00:26:08,039
thread we've pulled. What is your stand on the Transparency Act?

567
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,400
Do you think privacy should protect the powerful or do

568
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,400
the victims deserve every single name named, no matter the

569
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:15,319
collateral damage.

570
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 2: It's the ultimate ethical question of our time, privacy versus justice?

571
00:26:19,599 --> 00:26:22,319
Speaker 1: Who wins, leave a comment, let us know, and keep

572
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,759
molling at those threads. You never know what will unravel.

573
00:26:24,839 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 2: Stay curious, stay critical.

574
00:26:26,839 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to thrilling threads. We'll catch you on

575
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:30,079
the next one.

576
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:30,920
Speaker 2: Goodbye,