Speaker 1: Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo.
Speaker 2: These guys, are you fav It's so like say subscribe
Speaker 2: and rage.
Speaker 3: It five star sho and me.
Speaker 2: Rights on us today listening. Oh watchie Limb always keep
Speaker 2: it's watching.
Speaker 4: And now your hosts Cliff Barrickman and James Bubo fay.
Speaker 2: Hey, Big Food and Beyond folks, welcome. Bobo and I
Speaker 2: are sitting across the table from one another here in
Speaker 2: lovely Sandy, Oregon, where Bobo is blown through town for
Speaker 2: a moment. He showed up on my doorstep like a
Speaker 2: lost puppy about ten o'clock last night. I welcomed him in.
Speaker 2: I put a blanket on him, got him out of
Speaker 2: the cold wet rain, fed him. Actually, none of this
Speaker 2: is true, except for he showed up at.
Speaker 5: Ten I had I had my own blue blanket.
Speaker 2: By the way, Oh yeah, he was ranting about your
Speaker 2: blue blanky for a while. You mentioned it like legitimately
Speaker 2: two or three times. And I I've known Bobo a
Speaker 2: long time, but I don't know what the blue blanky
Speaker 2: is about.
Speaker 6: Tell me about it.
Speaker 5: It's a comfort thing.
Speaker 2: It's a comfort thing. Well, when did you first get
Speaker 2: the blue blanky? Like twenty thirty years ago, thirty years ago.
Speaker 2: A lot of DNA on that thing. Oh no, who
Speaker 2: gave it to you?
Speaker 7: I just bought a store for like eight bucks back
Speaker 7: then or something like that.
Speaker 5: It's cheap.
Speaker 7: When it's hot out, like you know, like getting down
Speaker 7: in the low sixties or something, it's and I don't
Speaker 7: want to lay out just wearing like a T shirt
Speaker 7: or whatever.
Speaker 5: I just put that on it. It's perfect.
Speaker 2: Nice and now now it's a comfort blanky. Yeah, binkie,
Speaker 2: shall we say similars binky?
Speaker 5: But functional as well?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I think most binkies are rather functional. That
Speaker 2: could be wrong about that.
Speaker 7: I kind of think of it kind of like my
Speaker 7: Hobbit cape when those guys go on the journey.
Speaker 2: Oh right, right, guests from Laurion, Right, Lady Gladryl gave
Speaker 2: those to the Hobbits.
Speaker 5: Of course, I kind of always imagine that is mine.
Speaker 3: That's what that was.
Speaker 2: Well, you're passing through town. It's to have you at
Speaker 2: the house.
Speaker 6: But let me know what I can do for you.
Speaker 2: And of course Matt, Matt's out there in Tennessee. We're
Speaker 2: missing out. You should be here, man.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's beautiful, it's nice.
Speaker 7: And kind of cloudy and not too hot, not too cold,
Speaker 7: just just perfect.
Speaker 5: It's like the Little Bear's porridge, right.
Speaker 4: I wish it's been over four years since all of
Speaker 4: us have been together, so it would be nice. Usually
Speaker 4: it's just Bobo and Cliff, or me and Cliff. I
Speaker 4: haven't seen Bobo in four years.
Speaker 5: We got to rectify that pruite.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I was thinking the next time I come out here,
Speaker 7: I think we should just fly you out one of
Speaker 7: these times if I know it here on a certain date,
Speaker 7: and then just get a cheap ahead of time ticket
Speaker 7: and you come out and do it live.
Speaker 5: We've knock got a few of them. Let's do it.
Speaker 2: Well, we're all here, Well, most of us are here
Speaker 2: in person except for you, prut. What do we want
Speaker 2: to talk about today?
Speaker 4: Well, we've done a couple of deep dives on listeners
Speaker 4: suggested topics. Sometimes people submit questions for the Q and
Speaker 4: a's that are like there's no short answer for and
Speaker 4: they really deserve a full discussion, And so we did
Speaker 4: a couple of those recently that we affect referred to
Speaker 4: as above and beyond Bigfoot and beyond discussions, And so
Speaker 4: we had a few of those to choose from. There
Speaker 4: was one that we had actually teased in a previous
Speaker 4: episode from one of our members, Darene Myers, who had
Speaker 4: asked us what aspects of the sasquatch subject we were
Speaker 4: really interested in but we never get to talk about,
Speaker 4: you know, like when we go on other podcasts or
Speaker 4: we do sasquatch related interviews. As you guys know, everyone
Speaker 4: always asks like where are the bones.
Speaker 3: And how many do you think there are? And what
Speaker 3: do you think they eat? That kind of thing.
Speaker 4: But I thought it would be fun to talk about
Speaker 4: the things that we're hyper interested in but no one
Speaker 4: ever asks about.
Speaker 2: And wasn't the opposite of that some sort of complementary
Speaker 2: sort of question, like what do we hate being asked?
Speaker 5: Was?
Speaker 6: It?
Speaker 2: Wasn't that part of it as well?
Speaker 4: Yeah, originally someone had asked something along those lines, and
Speaker 4: so like our least favorite interview questions, and so it
Speaker 4: was after that discussion, I think that Doreen sent in
Speaker 4: this question of like, well, what do you wish you
Speaker 4: could discuss in these interviews?
Speaker 2: So well, you know, I actually have a new least
Speaker 2: favorite review question, and that question is will you do
Speaker 2: an interview with my podcast? It's been too much lately,
Speaker 2: so anyway, Yeah, it's that's just me being cynical or whatever.
Speaker 6: But I don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean, you want to start with that boba, like
Speaker 2: what is your what is the thing that you would
Speaker 2: want to talk about that you're almost ever asked about?
Speaker 7: I see, Well, it's not like a big thing in
Speaker 7: my mind. But one thing I'm interested in is what
Speaker 7: I don't think anyone knows is like what their mating
Speaker 7: habits are, like Hollyday, decide who goes with who, that
Speaker 7: sort of thing, you know, how do they how do
Speaker 7: they separate the studs from the not so steadily? What
Speaker 7: the women find they get breeding stock, and what the
Speaker 7: males do. Is if there's humanists a lot of people
Speaker 7: think they are. You know, does personality have anything to
Speaker 7: do with it? Or is it just size? Is it
Speaker 7: just who's the biggest brood? Or is it you know,
Speaker 7: this guy's a little casanova and he's got some tricks,
Speaker 7: like he might be able to slip in and get
Speaker 7: like you know, go to like behind some donut shop
Speaker 7: and get some donuts and bringing back and we're with that.
Speaker 5: Or is it just the big stud.
Speaker 7: Guy that can just knock out any of others male
Speaker 7: sasquatch that comes around the female he wants or females.
Speaker 5: You know, I'd be religion to know that kind of stuff.
Speaker 6: You know what.
Speaker 2: I'd have to wonder as far as like a courtship
Speaker 2: or something like that, if if that's the right word
Speaker 2: for it, I don't really know, I would wonder. And
Speaker 2: just because sasquatches, you know, there's some sort of ape species,
Speaker 2: but so are we.
Speaker 6: It's not a big deal.
Speaker 2: We can learn a lot about apes in general by
Speaker 2: looking at ourselves because we exhibit a lot of the
Speaker 2: same behaviors. We have common ancestors, and a lot of
Speaker 2: those behaviors are our behaviors but masked in other ways,
Speaker 2: you know. And one of the things about humans that
Speaker 2: is reflected I believe in sasquatches to some degree in
Speaker 2: some circumstances is gift giving. You kind of have to wonder,
Speaker 2: do you know, if if I give Melissa flowers, you
Speaker 2: know it it makes her smile and that kind of thing,
Speaker 2: and you know it helps our bond, et cetera. So
Speaker 2: you kind of have to wonder if sasquatches are kind
Speaker 2: of up to same thing, you know, because they seem
Speaker 2: to have some sort of gift giving capacity, you know,
Speaker 2: to some degrees, although to be fair, their gifts kind
Speaker 2: of are terrible. You know, there are pieces of trash
Speaker 2: or torn up nerve footballs or something like that, something
Speaker 2: that I could personally never get away with Melissa, But
Speaker 2: you kind of have to wonder if there's anything going
Speaker 2: on in that regard and thinking about it, there might
Speaker 2: even be other parallels and ape species that I'm not
Speaker 2: thinking of right now.
Speaker 4: Well, like Bobo and mentioned in many of the other
Speaker 4: ape species, it is the females are indiscriminate maters, and
Speaker 4: so it's based on the dominant male. The dominant male
Speaker 4: will you know, outcompete or run off the sub adults
Speaker 4: or the males that are lower in the hierarchy, smaller,
Speaker 4: et cetera, et cetera. Now, where that really applies that
Speaker 4: we see the most often would be in large social
Speaker 4: groups like chimpanzees and gorillas are organized into, whereas sasquatches
Speaker 4: don't seem to have large social groups. You know, they
Speaker 4: don't live in big groups with multiple males and multiple
Speaker 4: females all sharing space and moving cooperating together. They seem
Speaker 4: to live more like orangutans, and so I think that
Speaker 4: model would make a lot more sense. Their social model
Speaker 4: is I think it's pronounced nyaw or nu yal, but
Speaker 4: it's spelled nyau.
Speaker 3: That particular sort of social structure, which.
Speaker 4: Is a lot more about maintaining and defending a given
Speaker 4: territory than it is about maintaining or defending a harem. So,
Speaker 4: you know, a male roam's a particular piece of real estate,
Speaker 4: and females that occur within that real estate or wander
Speaker 4: into that real estate.
Speaker 3: You know, as long as the.
Speaker 4: Male wards off other males, gets essentially the mating rights
Speaker 4: for any females within that territory. And I would assume
Speaker 4: that sasquatches are pretty similar just given the distribution of
Speaker 4: sightings and the distribution of footprint finds, etc. I think
Speaker 4: that makes a lot more sense than some of these
Speaker 4: other more complex things that occur in large social groups.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker 7: There one thing that surprised you we've learned about orangutans
Speaker 7: the last couple of years is how the.
Speaker 5: Big males are. Like I didn't realize how.
Speaker 7: Brutal they could be, Like, like what like maaming each
Speaker 7: other and killing smaller ones? Do you know proved once
Speaker 7: do you know to deal with that when they kill
Speaker 7: as smallest, like it's not their ostream they kill it,
Speaker 7: or is it just any other male that comes in
Speaker 7: their territory, Like I was reading reports of them even
Speaker 7: killing females.
Speaker 5: That I don't know.
Speaker 4: I'm not super familiar with that aspect of a ranguetam behavior,
Speaker 4: you know, what occurs in a lot of other analogous mammals.
Speaker 4: So perhaps that's the case. But usually, you know, they'll
Speaker 4: generate those big loud, you know, the long calls, and
Speaker 4: that's to both you know, ward off potential competitors, competitive males,
Speaker 4: and to let females know that like, hey, there's a
Speaker 4: big stud in the area, so to speak, so much
Speaker 4: like a bobo's howl that wards off males and alerts
Speaker 4: potential baits to his presence. But I'm not super familiar
Speaker 4: with like violence that they may or may not exhibit,
Speaker 4: So I'll have to look into that aspect of a
Speaker 4: range hands we know.
Speaker 2: I think all these things that we're bringing up right
Speaker 2: now that have kind of wandered away from the initial subject,
Speaker 2: it can be fit under the umbrella of social behavior.
Speaker 2: And I think that that's something that the Bigfoot community
Speaker 2: doesn't look hard enough at just because they're there. Seems
Speaker 2: like so many people are focused on, you know, are
Speaker 2: they real or they've got to be real because so
Speaker 2: many people talk about them or say they see them
Speaker 2: or encounter them or you know, all those people can't
Speaker 2: be lying. Yes, So what I'll go back. I said
Speaker 2: this in my presentation a few weeks ago in Ohio.
Speaker 2: If you're still if you're still wondering if they're real,
Speaker 2: you're behind the learning curve. And in my opinion, they're
Speaker 2: They're in my opinion, clearly real and and and the
Speaker 2: evidence strongly supports that. You know, So now the question
Speaker 2: is not if they are, but how they are? What
Speaker 2: do they do? Where do they go, why do they
Speaker 2: want to go there? What's their their motivation and doing
Speaker 2: certain things? And I don't I don't see the robust
Speaker 2: discussion that I would hope for in the Bigfoot community
Speaker 2: about that topic, because that's what I that's what I
Speaker 2: find most interesting about the whole thing is what they're doing.
Speaker 2: I Mean, there's hundreds of them in organ right now
Speaker 2: at this very minute, and they're all doing something. What
Speaker 2: are those things they're doing? When people bring up the
Speaker 2: Patterson Gimlin film. Yeah, sure, it's great.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 6: I love it too.
Speaker 2: Don't get me wrong, I don't seem to be quite
Speaker 2: as hung up on it as everybody else seems to be.
Speaker 6: But I think.
Speaker 2: For me the reason is the most interesting thing about
Speaker 2: the Patterson Gimlin film is what that creature was doing
Speaker 2: an hour before she was filmed. By far the most
Speaker 2: interesting thing it would be that. And I just don't
Speaker 2: see the robust discussion that I would hope for in
Speaker 2: the community about that. They're too hung up on are
Speaker 2: they real or are they not? It's like such a binary,
Speaker 2: you know, on off zero one sort of discussion where
Speaker 2: you have all this fertile middle ground of like, well, okay, well,
Speaker 2: if they are real, let's just I mean, if you're
Speaker 2: still on that fence, then okay, sit there. But if
Speaker 2: they if they are real, what would they do? Where
Speaker 2: would they go to stay out of the way of humans?
Speaker 2: What kind of behaviors would they exhibit in order to
Speaker 2: be successful right on the outskirts of society? Like those
Speaker 2: are the interesting questions, and those, to me also are
Speaker 2: the questions that can actually get us somewhere.
Speaker 6: They can help the researcher.
Speaker 2: Remember a few weeks ago, I commented about the question
Speaker 2: I always ask when somebody brings me something, and that
Speaker 2: question is, now, what, well, all of these ideas, you know,
Speaker 2: how do they do this, where do they go? What
Speaker 2: kind of foods are they exploiting? How do they get
Speaker 2: so many calories? To how facetes are metaboligy all that
Speaker 2: kind of stuff is now we have something to work with.
Speaker 2: So what can you do with that? And how will
Speaker 2: that help us encounter them, see them, film them, document them,
Speaker 2: et cetera. I wish more people spoke about that, honestly.
Speaker 3: I feel you there.
Speaker 4: But then we have the dual problem is that you know,
Speaker 4: there's not enough people asking that question and posing it
Speaker 4: as a question because it is an open question. So
Speaker 4: you have a certain set of the audience who's not
Speaker 4: asking that question, and another set of the commentator community
Speaker 4: not asking that question because they already have all the answers.
Speaker 4: You know, all is in you know, air quotes in
Speaker 4: terms of like they know everything they do in every
Speaker 4: single one of their habits, and you know, they've extrapolated
Speaker 4: everything about the Sasquatch lifestyle from birth to death, and
Speaker 4: you know, it gets so outlandish and preposterous, and you know,
Speaker 4: I think that's as equally big a problem. I mean,
Speaker 4: one of the things that I had thought about aspects
Speaker 4: of the subject is the negative effects of over enthusiasm,
Speaker 4: and that, to me would be one of them. It's like,
Speaker 4: which is worse, the skeptical or cynical take that there
Speaker 4: are no sasquatches i e. That they don't exist, i e.
Speaker 4: That they're nowhere, or the over enthusiastic shouting from the
Speaker 4: rooftops that they're everywhere.
Speaker 3: You know, they're seemingly equally bad. But I actually think
Speaker 3: the latter is worse.
Speaker 4: I think the people that the overly enthusiastic, the people
Speaker 4: who make too many claims in terms of absolutes that
Speaker 4: you know that we get confronted with all the time. Oh,
Speaker 4: I've seen them hundreds of times. I know where they are.
Speaker 4: I can take you exactly to where they are, you know,
Speaker 4: if you're worthy. You know, those sort of claims have
Speaker 4: been around for a long time, but obviously they've gotten
Speaker 4: more and more prevalent in the social media age. And
Speaker 4: it's things like that with nothing to show for it,
Speaker 4: no physical evidence, and no understanding of the analyzes of
Speaker 4: existing physical evidence or the history. I think that drives
Speaker 4: the skeptics and cynics further and further into their positions that, yeah,
Speaker 4: they must not really be anywhere, because these people think
Speaker 4: they're everywhere. And so I agree with you that not
Speaker 4: enough people are asking the right questions, but they're also
Speaker 4: being bombarded by people who think they have all the answers.
Speaker 3: And that's part of why. Know, Unfortunately, well.
Speaker 2: The folks that think they have all the answers, there's
Speaker 2: probably some motivations for that, and some which I understand. Actually,
Speaker 2: I can be kind of forgiving for some of that,
Speaker 2: and not the ones that are you know, the look
Speaker 2: at me crowds. You know, I'm not very forgiving about
Speaker 2: those sort of folks because I've had a touch of
Speaker 2: fame and I know what nonsense it is, and I
Speaker 2: think it's ridiculous who would want that, honestly? But how
Speaker 2: should I say this? I guess a good way to
Speaker 2: say it is, I remember when I was young and
Speaker 2: I knew everything too. You know, It's just as simple
Speaker 2: as that. It's a matter of maturity for a lot
Speaker 2: of people. You know, some people they're just hucksters or
Speaker 2: their attention seekers, or they have some sort of narcissism
Speaker 2: to deal with or or any number of things. You know,
Speaker 2: they didn't get enough hugs from mom or dad when
Speaker 2: they're growing up, and they did it. They're looking for
Speaker 2: something else from the community in general, and they want
Speaker 2: the attention. They want money or something, they want fame,
Speaker 2: they want something, you know, and they're going for it,
Speaker 2: and they don't realize that what they want probably isn't
Speaker 2: what they're actually going for. But the other side of
Speaker 2: that is, yeah, I was a young Bigfoot enthusiast, probably
Speaker 2: to enthusiastic, honestly, like some level of addiction was probably involved.
Speaker 2: I would imagine some sort of like I don't know,
Speaker 2: social or mental like mental addiction, I guess to this Bigfoot.
Speaker 6: Thing, you know.
Speaker 2: And again I remember when I was in my twenties
Speaker 2: or something like that, and I knew everything too. But
Speaker 2: that's just a matter of maturity and growing older and
Speaker 2: slowing down and realizing that I, you know, you just
Speaker 2: don't stay tuned for more Bigfoot and beyond with Cliff
Speaker 2: and Bobo will be right back after these messages. Hey, Boba,
Speaker 2: whatever happened to your gone squatch and hat used to wear?
Speaker 2: And finding Bigfoot now?
Speaker 5: I don't have that hat anymore.
Speaker 7: I gave it to Lauren Coleman for his museum, but
Speaker 7: I might be asking for it back because I'm getting
Speaker 7: a little nervous in summertime, getting too much sow in
Speaker 7: the scalp up there now, and I'm getting bip y mosquitoes.
Speaker 7: There's not a big lush crop to fend them off.
Speaker 7: It's as hell bobs.
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Speaker 2: I think I said it in Ohio last week. I
Speaker 2: said very clearly, like I don't really know that much
Speaker 2: about sasquatches. I have some ideas, I have some things
Speaker 2: that I think are probably true, but I don't really
Speaker 2: know that much at all about them.
Speaker 6: I just like to learn.
Speaker 5: Well.
Speaker 4: That to me is the difference between saying like, well,
Speaker 4: they probably do this based on this massive repository of testimonies,
Speaker 4: supported by some of the trace evidence, and from looking
Speaker 4: at the lifestyles of other apes and other animals that
Speaker 4: live similar lifestyles. So here's a reasonable inference that we
Speaker 4: could make, or at least a starting point when we're
Speaker 4: trying to build a model of what Sasquatches do with
Speaker 4: regards to X, Y or c. That's just so different
Speaker 4: than saying Sasquatches always do this, or they definitely do this,
Speaker 4: or this is exactly how they That's a huge difference.
Speaker 7: That's where you kind of can incorporate for a little
Speaker 7: more like a viewpoint is well, literally, we know about
Speaker 7: the archaic, archaic, ancient hominin, you know, our ancestors, like
Speaker 7: what we know about them, and which isn't a lot.
Speaker 7: But when you mix set in with what we know
Speaker 7: about modern day primates and like you know, the uncontacted
Speaker 7: tribes and that sort of stuff, you get it.
Speaker 5: You get kind of a more rounded picture.
Speaker 4: Oh, I totally agree with that, and that to me
Speaker 4: is the big difference between you know, us speculating, and
Speaker 4: it's hopefully informed speculation based not only in the sasquatch data,
Speaker 4: but in relevant related data versus the people that are
Speaker 4: out there that will tell you you know, everything about
Speaker 4: a sasquatch in terms of absolutes and what they always
Speaker 4: do and what they never do, you know, these kind
Speaker 4: of things like that absolute sort of speaking. There's a
Speaker 4: lot of that, and I think there's a certain subset
Speaker 4: of the audience that is drawn to those people and
Speaker 4: believes them. And that's why that said, at least isn't
Speaker 4: asking those questions, is because they've already heard from people
Speaker 4: who have quote unquote all the answers. And then yeah,
Speaker 4: I would differentiate that, I guess from the people who
Speaker 4: are overly enthusiastic, you know, the people who go out
Speaker 4: and have quote unquote activity. Every single time they're out,
Speaker 4: they have encounters. You know, every bump in the night
Speaker 4: is the sasquatch, Every broken twig is because a sasquatch
Speaker 4: passed by. Every divot in the ground is a sasquatch.
Speaker 4: Track airgo. They are everywhere, you know, every sasquatch report
Speaker 4: is true, on and on and on.
Speaker 6: You know, along these same lines.
Speaker 2: As far as social behavior goes, I'm really interested in
Speaker 2: I'm very interested actually in tracking individuals over time. And
Speaker 2: I think that's also a neglected corner of the Bigfoot investigation.
Speaker 2: Doctor Meldrum addressed it of course in his book to
Speaker 2: some degree looking at the Bluff Creek evidence. But I
Speaker 2: am super interested in that in general, because not only
Speaker 2: does that give us insight to their social behavior, and again,
Speaker 2: the only way you can do this is by tracking them. Essentially,
Speaker 2: you can't see a sasquatch hardly ever, but you can
Speaker 2: find their tracks if you know where and how to look,
Speaker 2: and if you are become familiar with their tracks and
Speaker 2: tracks in general, you can start looking at individuals over time,
Speaker 2: and that gives us some sort of insight into the
Speaker 2: social structure, that larger umbrella that we were just speaking
Speaker 2: about a while ago. Like in one of my areas,
Speaker 2: we have two individuals that are around a lot and
Speaker 2: we're learning stuff all the time. There's a fourteen inch individual,
Speaker 2: a twelve inch individual, and an occasionally a fifteen or
Speaker 2: so inch individual. That's as far as the foot length goes,
Speaker 2: and you can infer that's a female in an offspring,
Speaker 2: and probably a male that drops by every once in a while.
Speaker 2: You know, you're guessing. We don't know, but I think
Speaker 2: that's a reasonable guess. We usually find the small one,
Speaker 2: the twelve, We sometimes find the fourteen, and we almost
Speaker 2: never find the fifteen.
Speaker 6: So what can we learn from that?
Speaker 2: Like you gather the data, you take a guess, make
Speaker 2: a hypothesis and push forward that. I think that tells
Speaker 2: us something about their family group.
Speaker 6: I think at.
Speaker 2: Least but yet at another one of our locations, there's
Speaker 2: an eight or ten inch foot, there's a fourteen, and
Speaker 2: there's a seventeen, and we find all of them at
Speaker 2: the same time, generally always in the same general area,
Speaker 2: Like if we find one, we'll look around, we'll find
Speaker 2: the others. Or well, that's not always true, but most
Speaker 2: of the time we have all three of them in
Speaker 2: the same general area if you look hard enough, in
Speaker 2: that same general area might be like a quarter mile
Speaker 2: apart or something like that. But I'm not saying they're
Speaker 2: walking next to each other. But what does that tell us?
Speaker 2: So we have two data sets there from two areas
Speaker 2: with presumably three different sasquatches, what does that tell us
Speaker 2: about sasquatches as a whole? Or are we barking up
Speaker 2: the wrong tree in a way? And maybe I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think you can say things as a whole for
Speaker 2: sasquatches because you can do that for humans as well.
Speaker 2: But when saying it about humans you always run into
Speaker 2: problems because people are so weird and different from one another.
Speaker 2: It's hard to say one thing about say Bobo, and
Speaker 2: have that apply to Cliff or vice versa. Right, is
Speaker 2: that the problem is that going to be a problem
Speaker 2: with studying sasquatches so that the individuals in general, like
Speaker 2: tracking individuals over time based on their footprints, which is
Speaker 2: the only effective way to do so, is a much
Speaker 2: neglected study area of sasquatchry in general. Again, very few
Speaker 2: people pay attention to that at all. And I think
Speaker 2: if you got if one got better at identifying footprints
Speaker 2: and identifying individuals, I think a lot could be learned.
Speaker 2: And I'm going to throw a little shade at the
Speaker 2: early investigators about this, John Green, for example, And I
Speaker 2: don't have much I'm not saying anything bad about John
Speaker 2: Green right now, but this isn't a super positive thing.
Speaker 2: John Green strongly thought that the fourteen inch individual was
Speaker 2: different than the fourteen and a half and was different
Speaker 2: than the fifteen inch individual in Bluff Creek. And that's ridiculous.
Speaker 2: I mean, maybe there are more than one individual at
Speaker 2: that same size foot but almost certainly those are all patty.
Speaker 2: But he was an early investigator. He didn't have we're
Speaker 2: standing on John's shoulders. John Green didn't stand on really
Speaker 2: anybody's shoulders essentially, I mean, very few people came before him.
Speaker 2: He knew a couple folks that helped him out along
Speaker 2: the way. But the assumption that the fourteen, fourteen and
Speaker 2: a half, and fifteen were different individuals, and that looks
Speaker 2: silly to me. Those are almost certainly the same individual especially,
Speaker 2: you know, if you had say eight foot prints and
Speaker 2: they all fell into those three categories, there is a
Speaker 2: very high probability that at least some of them are
Speaker 2: the same individual. Fourteen and a half and fourteen, come on,
Speaker 2: it's a half inch different. I have found up to
Speaker 2: three four five inches in some case difference in footprint
Speaker 2: lengths from known individuals. So again, looking at these individuals
Speaker 2: and tracking them over time, it's going to teach us
Speaker 2: a lot about the species in general. And I think
Speaker 2: that once quote unquote discovery happens, that will be the
Speaker 2: primary way of studying sasquatches in their natural habitat, doing
Speaker 2: natural behavior.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that is one of the most I think neglected
Speaker 4: aspects of the subject. A because sasquatches don't give us
Speaker 4: very much information to work with, but b because this
Speaker 4: community has a high turnover rate and people have a
Speaker 4: very short memory. There's a short institutional memory, let's say
Speaker 4: within sasquatchry, but the long term cases, whether that's you know,
Speaker 4: an individual that owns a property that has repeated experiences
Speaker 4: over a number of years, or the repeated occurrences of
Speaker 4: recognizable individuals like you're describing. I mean, there was a
Speaker 4: great section in Crets's book where he was talking about
Speaker 4: repeated instances of individuals in the Blue Mountains that I
Speaker 4: heard you speak about not too long ago on another
Speaker 4: podcast in Depth, where you can almost piece together the
Speaker 4: story of this small handful of individual Sasquatches in the
Speaker 4: Blue Mountains over a number of years. That kind of
Speaker 4: thing fascinates me to no end, and we have so
Speaker 4: little of it, but it's definitely to me a neglected
Speaker 4: area of focus from both ends, from the evidence analysis
Speaker 4: side or from hearing from you know, reliable, credible, long
Speaker 4: term witnesses or people who've had repeated experiences in a
Speaker 4: given location with you know, a finite number of Sasquatch individuals.
Speaker 3: For sure.
Speaker 7: I think one thing we should look for is because
Speaker 7: I've heard of probably half a dozen reports of.
Speaker 5: People saying that they see them, you know, take a dump.
Speaker 7: Somewhere and then white with a ball of grass or
Speaker 7: like a smoothish pine come. It's not like you know
Speaker 7: fully developed yet or like red cones or you know
Speaker 7: that sort of thing. Especially if you find any suspected scat,
Speaker 7: i'd look around for something they wiped with. I mean,
Speaker 7: so I think that that's one thing. I don't think
Speaker 7: people look for that at all. I think that'd be
Speaker 7: something to keep an eye. I mean it'd be hard
Speaker 7: to spot, but I think the bald grass.
Speaker 5: Would be the the easiest thing to see.
Speaker 3: Guiltiest charged I have never looked for.
Speaker 2: I can't see I've used any of those things either
Speaker 2: in the woods. I might add, you haven't, No, not
Speaker 2: to get too fecal about things, but no, no, I
Speaker 2: have what have like pine cones, yeah, really red because
Speaker 2: those are tiny, like.
Speaker 7: Just like I'm not sure what kind of pines s are,
Speaker 7: but like they're like this bigger than they don't have
Speaker 7: the barber sticking out.
Speaker 2: Like no, you go barblous.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 7: And then I've used grasses. I've used skunk cabbage when
Speaker 7: you're out there for a while. I mean, I don't
Speaker 7: do that anymore because I don't I don't go out
Speaker 7: long enough. I don't when I did something like that.
Speaker 7: But uh, yeah, I used all those things when.
Speaker 2: You got to go you gotta go. I feel you.
Speaker 6: I feel you the.
Speaker 4: Picture that's emerging here for for potentially, if you're a
Speaker 4: podcaster listening to our podcast, then you want to interview
Speaker 4: Bobo what he's been waiting to be asked about his
Speaker 4: sasquatch is humping and how they wipe their butts.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, to get back to the unless you
Speaker 2: want to talk more about that. Don't you have anything
Speaker 2: else to say?
Speaker 5: Ups? No, I was waiting for some infant from the listeners.
Speaker 7: If anyone has anything to say, send us a message.
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 6: I think I'll plead the fifth or whatever it is
Speaker 6: on that one.
Speaker 7: Guy I talked to you gout that had a ball
Speaker 7: of grass, like two balls of grass with Scott wiped
Speaker 7: on it. He collected him and he had them for
Speaker 7: a long time.
Speaker 2: Yeah. See, that's exactly why I don't I don't publicly
Speaker 2: show any interest in Scott, you know, because I want
Speaker 2: to deal with that. And can you imagine the mail
Speaker 2: I'd get at the museum, A lot of human fecal
Speaker 2: matters in the museum, Like I'm going to show these guys. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because I can think about your buddies and I don't
Speaker 2: know I've got some friends too that would like it's like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, looking for scats samples, I've got one
Speaker 2: for them.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm not looking for it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like, oh, you know those poop in the
Speaker 2: box colonoscopy tests that are send off somewhere. It's like
Speaker 2: they're all gonna be sent to the museum or something like. Now,
Speaker 2: I've got no interest in doing that. The only uh,
Speaker 2: scats samples I'm interested in are the ones that I
Speaker 2: see come out of the Sasquatch as I observe it.
Speaker 6: And that's it.
Speaker 2: That is it.
Speaker 3: You should be so lucky.
Speaker 2: I should.
Speaker 6: I agree, I should be that lucky someday.
Speaker 2: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo.
Speaker 2: Will be right back after these messages.
Speaker 7: Glenn Thomas saw a young female deprecated to the stream
Speaker 7: and then wipe her hand, wipe ers up with their
Speaker 7: hands and then well, I guess wash the hand in
Speaker 7: the water and then licked her hands clean after that
Speaker 7: was not the case.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I remember the washing the hands in the water part,
Speaker 6: but the rest.
Speaker 7: To his leg report, it didn't want Maybe we see
Speaker 7: guerrillas do that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, COPPRAI there you go, yeah, but Bend and Augle
Speaker 2: was commented like a something like a very Semian gesture.
Speaker 6: I think it's his term or something.
Speaker 2: He said something to that effect in his book about
Speaker 2: that when he addressed it, most people don't know that's
Speaker 2: Glen Thomas stuff. When Thomas had three sightings, and so
Speaker 2: that drew doubts from the early greats because who could
Speaker 2: possibly be so lucky? He said, well, they're normal animals.
Speaker 2: You could see more than once. Whether the house away,
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know, but he lived around
Speaker 2: here somewhere. I still have yet to meet someone who
Speaker 2: knew him.
Speaker 4: It might be good to talk a bit about the
Speaker 4: Glenn Thomas story, because we've referenced it in a couple episodes,
Speaker 4: and you know, when we're having these conversations, I'm just
Speaker 4: hanging out with my friends. But then when I was
Speaker 4: editing it, I realized, like, oh, I wonder how many
Speaker 4: people don't know who Glenn Thomas is or the significant
Speaker 4: when we talk about the site and how the site
Speaker 4: is still basically intact. So maybe you give him like
Speaker 4: a rundown of that initial encounter.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, sure. It was October of nineteen sixty seven,
Speaker 2: very fruitful month in Bigfoot lore obviously, but a few
Speaker 2: weeks before the Patterson Gimlin film was shot and completely
Speaker 2: separate people and all that other stuff. Glenn Thomas, what
Speaker 2: was a lagger? At least a lager. He might have
Speaker 2: been a road we're guided too, but I know he's
Speaker 2: at least a lagger. And he was on a job
Speaker 2: site in October of nineteen sixty seven up on Burnt
Speaker 2: Granite Ridge in that general area in Mount Hood National Forest,
Speaker 2: and he was walking up ro down the road for
Speaker 2: whatever reason I can't remember why, maybe going back to
Speaker 2: the rig or going to it, I don't really know,
Speaker 2: going away from it, and he looked up on this
Speaker 2: talus slope. A taialus slope is a kind of rocky
Speaker 2: slope where the rocks are big. If the rocks are
Speaker 2: very small, it's called a scree slope. So the word
Speaker 2: is taylus ta l us. It means like big rocks,
Speaker 2: like the size of your head or bigger. Essentially is
Speaker 2: the gist. And it's at the top of this peak.
Speaker 2: It's on the ridge. It's not really at the top
Speaker 2: of the peaks on a ridge line. And he looked
Speaker 2: up in there and Apparently he saw three sasquatches moving
Speaker 2: rocks aside looking for something underneath, and they presumed it
Speaker 2: was some sort of ground squirrel or something like that.
Speaker 2: Although I've been to the site many times and I
Speaker 2: think there are pikas. I think they're called There are
Speaker 2: a lot of those there, and you know, unless you
Speaker 2: know a new population came out and drove out the
Speaker 2: old ones, they're probably pikahs. But anyway, back to the
Speaker 2: original report, they said ground scrolls of some sort, and
Speaker 2: basically the male was on one side, then the female
Speaker 2: was next to her, and then a young one was
Speaker 2: next to that, and the male would move these big
Speaker 2: rocks aside to make these pits, looking for things, and
Speaker 2: then every once in a while they'd find these hibernating
Speaker 2: rodents of some sort and gobble them up. I think
Speaker 2: he used the term like ate them like a hot dog.
Speaker 2: If I remember correctly, I'd have to go back and
Speaker 2: reread John Green's reports, but that's essentially it. And so
Speaker 2: he saw these things digging these holes. These pits are
Speaker 2: still there that the sasquatches presumably excavated, and eventually they
Speaker 2: kind of clued in that he was watching and they
Speaker 2: left the area. Essentially. That's the long and short of it.
Speaker 2: But of course that lit a fire in Glenn Thomas,
Speaker 2: as happens with many bigfoot folks, and he started spending
Speaker 2: a lot of time looking for sasquatches, and his other
Speaker 2: two sidings that he had in that general area are
Speaker 2: less well documented. I don't know the dates or anything
Speaker 2: like that. I'm not even sure where to find the dates.
Speaker 2: I mean, maybe John Green recorded them somewhere. I'd have
Speaker 2: to go back and look. But essentially he saw these
Speaker 2: things two more times over the next maybe few years
Speaker 2: or something. Sasquatch, as Bobo noted, was seen pooping defecating
Speaker 2: in a river essentially, and then it wiped his belt
Speaker 2: with its hands and then licked off its fingers and
Speaker 2: kind of went about his business. What other stuff Glenn
Speaker 2: Thomas did, I don't know. I have no idea, but gosh,
Speaker 2: I mean, he was from Colton or Estacada or somewhere
Speaker 2: around here. I would love to speak to offspring of
Speaker 2: some sort.
Speaker 6: I would.
Speaker 2: I don't even have any information on when he died.
Speaker 2: I'm sure he's dead by now, I would think, But
Speaker 2: I don't have very much information on the man except
Speaker 2: for what John Green wrote.
Speaker 5: Essentially, I wonder if that was the same female he was.
Speaker 2: I mean, how many females are in an area. It's
Speaker 2: a very high likelihood, I would imagine, you know, because
Speaker 2: I think all that stuff happened in that general area.
Speaker 2: And this is also the same area, by the way,
Speaker 2: that a lot of bigfoot step happens. You know, this
Speaker 2: is above a place called Big Bottom. It's not just
Speaker 2: a spinal tap song. It's an area, the swampy sort
Speaker 2: of low lying area along Clacamus River that there are
Speaker 2: been numerous reports out of Tarzan Springs is not far away.
Speaker 2: And Tarzan Springs for our listeners, if you don't know,
Speaker 2: I think we've talked about it a few times on
Speaker 2: the podcast was named according to Joe B. Lart, who
Speaker 2: tracked down some folks in the federal level who gave
Speaker 2: him this story. He can read about it in his book,
Speaker 2: The Bigfoot Highway book Oregon's Bigfoot Highway. I think it's
Speaker 2: called Apparently he was told by some federal worker who
Speaker 2: went back in the records for Joe that it was
Speaker 2: named the nineteen twenties.
Speaker 5: I think, say.
Speaker 2: Yeah, somewhere in there, and the surveyors who were in
Speaker 2: the area, ran across like some sort of hermit or
Speaker 2: you know, a prospector or somebody like that up at
Speaker 2: Tarzan Springs who was quote unquote living with the apes unquote.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 2: And of course at this time, you know, it was
Speaker 2: kind of before television, and so the thing that everybody
Speaker 2: spoke about in the media at that time were books,
Speaker 2: oh the Lost Golden Age, and the big book at
Speaker 2: the time was Tarzan of the Apes. Everybody was reading
Speaker 2: Tarzan of the Apes, you know, one of the most
Speaker 2: popular books ever at that time. And so I guess
Speaker 2: the surveyors who stumbled across this gentleman who was living
Speaker 2: with the apes in Mount Hood National Forest before it
Speaker 2: was a national forest, they named it Tarzan Springs. So
Speaker 2: the area is just full of history, full of citing reports.
Speaker 2: I have found footprints in that general area before more
Speaker 2: than once, actually several times. It's just a great area.
Speaker 2: And that's the Glen Thomas gist right there. But you know,
Speaker 2: if sasquatches were doing this, like digging through these taless
Speaker 2: slopes and making these big pits, I mean you can
Speaker 2: actually I plan to go there this weekend. Ugly enough,
Speaker 2: it's funny you brought that up. I intend to go
Speaker 2: to the Glen Thomas site this weekend. I've got some
Speaker 2: folks coming into town and I'm taking them out for
Speaker 2: a day at bigfooting, And I think that's a great
Speaker 2: spot to go because I can't promise them a Bigfoot,
Speaker 2: but I can promise to show them something that Bigfoot
Speaker 2: supposedly did. So but if they if that was a
Speaker 2: normal behavior for Sasquatches, we should be seeing these kind
Speaker 2: of all over the place, and you really don't. And
Speaker 2: a lot of the ones that you do find are
Speaker 2: are thought to be like vision quest sites from local
Speaker 2: native tribes and that sort of thing. So I kind
Speaker 2: of wonder about that. I mean, did this particular family
Speaker 2: group of Sasquatch develop a new way of foraging that
Speaker 2: wasn't thought of before or is that unique to them,
Speaker 2: because there's other tallest slopes in there and I've never
Speaker 2: seen anything like that. But then again, to be fair,
Speaker 2: I'm not really looking that hard for him, so maybe
Speaker 2: there's more stuff out there to find.
Speaker 5: Found one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he brought me to that one that was
Speaker 2: up kind of up by high rocks in a way
Speaker 2: up in Mountain Hood National Forest.
Speaker 6: I've seen that one.
Speaker 2: So I mean again vision side or Sasquatch sign, I
Speaker 2: don't know.
Speaker 7: You know, Jamie Jay was talking to a guy he
Speaker 7: knows up in Washington and he's telling him he's keeps
Speaker 7: you got to call to Elsbury's all. We got a
Speaker 7: Glenn Thomas that there's like a hundred holes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I see at the Glenn Thomas site, there's more
Speaker 2: than that that big hole.
Speaker 6: You always see.
Speaker 2: Pictures of Bender and Auguler to Hinden or somebody standing
Speaker 2: in the big hole. But there's a lot of other
Speaker 2: holes there, and that's one of these things. And I
Speaker 2: think that if we're going to differentiate, if Sasquatches are
Speaker 2: actually responsible for some of these, I'm perhaps a way
Speaker 2: to differentiate would be counting them. I mean something like
Speaker 2: that would take a lot of work. You know, some
Speaker 2: of these rocks way two three hundred pounds or more,
Speaker 2: you know more in some cases is not an awful
Speaker 2: big one that is in dangerous slipping back into the hole.
Speaker 2: And last time I was there, it's been a few
Speaker 2: years though, But.
Speaker 6: I imagine, I mean, i'd have to ask.
Speaker 2: Some Native folks about this because I really don't know,
Speaker 2: but maybe, like would they dig more than one if
Speaker 2: they were out doing what they do in these places,
Speaker 2: or it seems like a lot of work to day one,
Speaker 2: let alone five or eight. But I think at the
Speaker 2: Glenn Thomas site, I don't remember exactly, but I bet
Speaker 2: you there's at least a dozen of them. And I
Speaker 2: was told that further up the ridge line there's other
Speaker 2: tailess slopes that have these things in them too, but
Speaker 2: just not as dramatic as that really big, deep one.
Speaker 6: So I don't know.
Speaker 2: Maybe that maybe that would be a differentiator, but again
Speaker 2: we're also looking at the data set. I think that's
Speaker 2: the only example of that behavior being observed by that
Speaker 2: sasquatch behavior or purported sasquatch behavior being observed by humans.
Speaker 6: So I don't know.
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe they don't do it at all, and he's
Speaker 2: a liar.
Speaker 6: I have no idea.
Speaker 3: Well, it just could be the case.
Speaker 4: I mean, there's there's twice now that it's kind of
Speaker 4: touched on idiosyncrasy and individuality. You're talking about it a
Speaker 4: bit earlier, and then this brings it back to mind.
Speaker 4: That is one of the things I had written down
Speaker 4: is that when you're looking at animals that have long
Speaker 4: developmental periods and especially animals that have really complex behaviors,
Speaker 4: like a behavioral repertoire that's highly complex. That leads to
Speaker 4: a lot of individualism because most of those behaviors are learned.
Speaker 4: They're not innate, they're not extinctual, they're not like baked
Speaker 4: in or inborn, and so you'll have so much variation
Speaker 4: across individuals within a given species, like humans are a
Speaker 4: great example of that. Tigers are a great example of that.
Speaker 4: There's a number of great examples of that in the
Speaker 4: natural world. And so what you're left with is like
Speaker 4: individuals to the earlier point you had made about like,
Speaker 4: you know, are we painting a picture of the sasquatch
Speaker 4: as a species that's not directly applicable anywhere that I
Speaker 4: made that exact point in my book. I'd said, like
Speaker 4: you could create a highly act you're a general image
Speaker 4: of the sasquatch, and yet never find a single individual
Speaker 4: sasquatch that conforms to that image. Right, And so in
Speaker 4: the case like this, it might be that all sasquatches
Speaker 4: will forage for rodents, but depending on the environment and
Speaker 4: their learned behaviors and you know, things they've become successful at,
Speaker 4: and so they start repeating and it gets instantiated, almost
Speaker 4: like a positive feedback loop. That like the general pictures
Speaker 4: that they'll you know, search for, forage for and eat rodents,
Speaker 4: but the specific picture is like, well, maybe this family
Speaker 4: unit found a strategy to acquire rodents that's highly different
Speaker 4: than an individual or a family unit would in the
Speaker 4: Washutaws or in Appalachia. I mean, one of the interesting
Speaker 4: things about Area X, where all that activity was concentrated
Speaker 4: around the old cabin compound, you know, it was just
Speaker 4: a draw for a lot of creatures. There was a
Speaker 4: couple of like smaller open grassy areas there that were
Speaker 4: like the only little open meadows in that whole valley.
Speaker 4: Everything else is like thickly forested. It was a big
Speaker 4: draw for deer and other browsing animals. I mean, there's
Speaker 4: deer all over the valley, but they're easier to observe
Speaker 4: and like reliably know that they're going to come through
Speaker 4: and browse in these areas. But one thing that cabin
Speaker 4: compound had in abundance was rodents. Because these are old,
Speaker 4: you know, kind of wooden structures and a lot of
Speaker 4: stuff laying around, you know, human stuff, and so there
Speaker 4: was just all kinds of mice and rats and everything
Speaker 4: that would make homes in there and live in there.
Speaker 4: So we always wondered if that was a big part
Speaker 4: of the reason why they hung around, is this abundance
Speaker 4: of rodent food. And I know you've seen that in
Speaker 4: your study areas where they seem to be really going
Speaker 4: after rodents a lot. So I think that's the general image,
Speaker 4: and if Glenn Thomas is telling the truth, and what
Speaker 4: you're seeing there is specific, so it is applicable. But
Speaker 4: you know, you might not say, like, well, all sasquatches will,
Speaker 4: you know, lift rocks and create holes in their search
Speaker 4: for rodents, but all sasquatches will search for rodents.
Speaker 3: Does that make sense?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. And I've certainly found other instances of them
Speaker 2: moving things aside to see what delicious treats are living underneath,
Speaker 2: mostly logs. I've observed logs in several different locations, but
Speaker 2: I also see overturned rocks in a lot of these
Speaker 2: locations as well. I just don't have any evidence sasquatches
Speaker 2: were responsible for it, because that's also a known bare
Speaker 2: behavior and it's just hard to differentiate there when they
Speaker 2: don't leave anything behind. It's just hard to know who
Speaker 2: did what right, But you know, if you're digging, if
Speaker 2: you're pulling over a rock to see what might be
Speaker 2: living in that hole underneath it, or something in a
Speaker 2: tailor's slope, well you move it aside and there's another
Speaker 2: rock there. It's not that big of a stretch that
Speaker 2: they would learn that sort of behavior in those sorts
Speaker 2: of environments, especially as you said, if they were successful
Speaker 2: previously and they were going back to the area to
Speaker 2: see what else might be edible in the area. And again,
Speaker 2: I've been to the site probably a dozen times, and
Speaker 2: I think every time I go, I see not only
Speaker 2: one pika or whatever they are, but multiple. So those
Speaker 2: areas must be just thick with food.
Speaker 4: Wish I could have seen that place the one time
Speaker 4: that were The last time I was up in that
Speaker 4: area with you, there was still snow block in the way.
Speaker 4: I think we were there in like June, so the
Speaker 4: valleys were pretty open, but some of those higher places
Speaker 4: we couldn't get up into, which was a bummer because
Speaker 4: I really want to see that place.
Speaker 3: So maybe the next visit will do that.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, like I said, I'll be going this weekend, so
Speaker 2: I'll probably take some pictures and stuff, And of course
Speaker 2: that stacking is of interest as well, because that's one
Speaker 2: of the notable things about the site that I neglected
Speaker 2: to mention, is that the sasquatches are not only digging
Speaker 2: the holes out of the Taili's slope, but they were
Speaker 2: actually stacking the rocks on top of one another. And
Speaker 2: some of these rocks were very, very large. I think
Speaker 2: Hender and those Hennery Fahrenbach and those folks went to
Speaker 2: the site and weighed some of the rocks and they
Speaker 2: were well over two hundred pounds, as I mentioned, and
Speaker 2: some of them are quite large, so that's probably four
Speaker 2: hundred pounds in some cases. But those those rock stacks
Speaker 2: are still there, and you know, sasquatches have noted, or
Speaker 2: at least there's a trend, I guess, and the sighting
Speaker 2: reports over the years that sas squatches seem to be
Speaker 2: a little, i don't know it's right word, a little
Speaker 2: neurotic in some ways about stacking things. There was a
Speaker 2: report from the Bull Run Watershed that I got secondhand
Speaker 2: about some guy who's grown marijuana illegally in there many
Speaker 2: many years ago, and his crop was eaten and by
Speaker 2: one of these things supposedly, and when he came back
Speaker 2: to this, when the guy came back, he was chased
Speaker 2: out of the area by this thing. The stalks of
Speaker 2: the plants were all piled very fastidiously, you know, very
Speaker 2: very neatly in piles. And I kind of hear that
Speaker 2: sort of general theme a lot about sasquatches kind of
Speaker 2: be in neat freaks in a way. So the stacking
Speaker 2: of rocks lines up well with some other trends in
Speaker 2: the sighting reports, at least to me.
Speaker 4: You know, that's another great example. I think that trend
Speaker 4: of like orderliness. So yeah, you could say, generally speaking,
Speaker 4: there's an orderliness. But then if you're looking at the
Speaker 4: specific like, well do they always stack rocks? Well, no,
Speaker 4: not all of them, not everywhere. And so I said,
Speaker 4: I think that individuality plays a large part of why
Speaker 4: they're still undiscovered. Is when you have something that's really
Speaker 4: individualistic and very idiosyncratic, and you're chasing a specific individual,
Speaker 4: it's like, well, at that point, it's very unpredictable. Even
Speaker 4: if you have a good general image of the sasquatch's
Speaker 4: lifestyle and behavior, that might not apply to any one individual.
Speaker 4: I'd pulled a quote from Carl Jung, because he was
Speaker 4: describing people as the same way that, like, you know,
Speaker 4: we look at averages with humans, but humanity never produces
Speaker 4: anything except for exceptions to the rule. People are so
Speaker 4: individual and so different. And he'd used an analogy like,
Speaker 4: you know, you could go to a rocky beach shore
Speaker 4: and know that the average pebble on that beach weighs whatever,
Speaker 4: you know, seventy five grams, And then you could weigh
Speaker 4: every pebble on that beach for the rest of your
Speaker 4: life and never find a single pebble that weighs seventy
Speaker 4: five grams, you know. And I think a lot of
Speaker 4: that does apply to Sasquatches because they must have long,
Speaker 4: slow development periods, come plex behavioral repertoire, and a lot
Speaker 4: of that must be learned, and so they must be
Speaker 4: very individualistic and idiosyncratic for those reasons.
Speaker 2: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and
Speaker 2: Bogo will be right back after these messages.
Speaker 7: Another interesting thing people have reported from the I know,
Speaker 7: from the Rockies and from Sierra Nevada's researchers say that
Speaker 7: they're convinced that they build up like little piles of
Speaker 7: rocks like they'll build a little like pyramid, like yeah,
Speaker 7: like a car, like a pyramid of rocks, and then
Speaker 7: the ground scrolls or whatever. Rodents will go in there
Speaker 7: and nest in those rocks, and they come back when
Speaker 7: they're hibernating and just pull them apart and pull them
Speaker 7: out sleeping and just they got.
Speaker 5: A frozen snack. Are basically well, it's it's warm. It's
Speaker 5: a warm snack.
Speaker 2: But you know something that's interesting. I think that something
Speaker 2: I wrote down on my list as far as like
Speaker 2: what I wish more people spoke about. We're doing it
Speaker 2: right now, right now, and that is the early reports,
Speaker 2: the early foundational literature. Because again we lament about this
Speaker 2: all the time. We're a bunch of old men kneeling
Speaker 2: at the kids to get off our grass. I totally
Speaker 2: get it. But so many of the Bigfoot officionados nowadays,
Speaker 2: they don't realize the people who laid the foundation for
Speaker 2: what we all love. They don't realize the importance of
Speaker 2: Green and Krantz in their ilk because they came in
Speaker 2: with the Finding Bigfoot days or the Expedition Bigfoot or whatever,
Speaker 2: you know, whatever flash in the pan thing is on
Speaker 2: TV at the time. They don't understand all the work
Speaker 2: that has been done beforehand. And I've seen grave mistakes
Speaker 2: done by people who thought they perhaps discovered something, discovered
Speaker 2: a trend, only to look in John Green's books and realize, oh,
Speaker 2: this was done in the nineteen seventies or I don't know,
Speaker 2: Matt even you said something about this recently, about the
Speaker 2: color of the animals and real and thought, oh, no,
Speaker 2: one's really talked about this, And sure enough Sanderson did,
Speaker 2: like the literally the first book, the first book ever
Speaker 2: written kind of in a way that talked about it.
Speaker 2: So I think that, then again, I'm just an old man.
Speaker 2: You'll let the kids to get off my grass. I
Speaker 2: fully realize that, and I do it all the time.
Speaker 2: But I think that the foundational literature, the early researchers,
Speaker 2: the early reports are hugely important, especially now because if
Speaker 2: you wanted to fake a sasquatch report, it would be
Speaker 2: really easy to do.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 2: You listen to a couple of podcasts, you read a book,
Speaker 2: you go to the BFR site, and you know, average
Speaker 2: those things out and spit it back, and someone's going
Speaker 2: to believe you, because why not. The Sasquatches are real.
Speaker 2: You can actually see them no big deal. But like
Speaker 2: the best example of something I mentioned recently is like
Speaker 2: these tree things that I've been discovering, not not trees structures,
Speaker 2: but tree breaks. Turns out, John Green wrote about the
Speaker 2: tree breaks literally in the very first bigfoot thing that
Speaker 2: pretty much ever happened, and under the word big Ford
Speaker 2: the least the Jerry Crew the Jerry Crew footprints. John
Speaker 2: Green wrote in his book that he followed the tracks
Speaker 2: of the Jerry Crew creature down the creek and up
Speaker 2: the other slope. He lost the tracks and some rocky
Speaker 2: train and then found trees broken. Three different trees broken
Speaker 2: with the tops broken off and twisted around the lower trunk.
Speaker 2: That's exactly what we find nowadays. And he didn't know
Speaker 2: if sasquatch, that sasquatch was responsible for it, but they
Speaker 2: were in the trackway that he was following, so it
Speaker 2: could be inferred, I think. But going back to that,
Speaker 2: the earliest reports you can find and looking for behaviors
Speaker 2: and descriptions and that sort of stuff carries more weight
Speaker 2: than a report that happened two weeks ago, because the
Speaker 2: report that happened two weeks ago happened in the context
Speaker 2: of a lot of people knowing a little bit about
Speaker 2: sasquatch stuff. But you go back to nineteen fifty eight,
Speaker 2: nineteen fifty nine, nobody knew anything, nobody knew squat about
Speaker 2: squatch at that time. So the thing the next you know,
Speaker 2: fifty years of reports supporting those behaviors is very telling
Speaker 2: to me. So I think that the early reports and
Speaker 2: the early literature is even more valuable now than perhaps
Speaker 2: it was thirty forty fifty years ago.
Speaker 3: Oh, I agree with that.
Speaker 4: I do think it's really important not only to read
Speaker 4: that early literature, but to reread it often. And you
Speaker 4: know the example you brought up that I mentioned with
Speaker 4: Wes about Sanderson. You know, there's a handful of books
Speaker 4: that I reread every year and every single time, and
Speaker 4: some of them, you know, I've read for twenty plus
Speaker 4: years now, and every single time I see something new
Speaker 4: in there that didn't like shine forth in the previous
Speaker 4: you know, fifteen readings or ten readings or whatever. And
Speaker 4: that's I always say, like, the information doesn't change, but
Speaker 4: you change, and what you're looking for changes, and what
Speaker 4: stands out to you and what resonates with something new
Speaker 4: you've learned, all those things change, and so it's definitely
Speaker 4: worth getting really familiar with that stuff and then revisiting
Speaker 4: it often because new things will appear that were there
Speaker 4: all along, but they just weren't relevant to you at
Speaker 4: the time, so they didn't really stick out in your
Speaker 4: perception as you were reading it. So all those things
Speaker 4: are very very important.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: It's funny, like you mentioned the validity of older sasquatch reports.
Speaker 4: One of the things that frustrates me so much with
Speaker 4: some of these podcasts I listen to or YouTube channels
Speaker 4: is that you can tell like, at least for me
Speaker 4: in my opinion, which could be very wrong, But when
Speaker 4: someone is feigning ignorance about the subject and they're fabricating
Speaker 4: a story and they're weaving in every element of the
Speaker 4: sasquatch phenomenon, and I've heard people say things like, you know,
Speaker 4: more than once, more than one person say things like,
Speaker 4: and you know, I have to it run off. I
Speaker 4: went and looked at its tracks, and I mean, this
Speaker 4: is going to sound weird, but the tracks almost look
Speaker 4: like the foot bends in the middle. Has anyone ever
Speaker 4: said that before? Yeah, you're going to tell me that, Like,
Speaker 4: it's so obvious that they're trying to make it sound
Speaker 4: like they spontaneously saw a mid tarsal break and didn't
Speaker 4: know what they were looking at. And people send me
Speaker 4: that stuff and I'm like, look, man, I think that
Speaker 4: person's lying. I think they're trying to include all these
Speaker 4: elements that will make it seem more legitimate. And they'll
Speaker 4: be like, oh, but he said he doesn't know anything
Speaker 4: about the Sasquatch, And it's like, well, he found that podcast,
Speaker 4: didn't he. Who's to say he hadn't been listening to
Speaker 4: that podcast for five years before he decided to tell
Speaker 4: his you know, quote unquote story. So those kind of
Speaker 4: things are so frustrated. There's a lot of that out there.
Speaker 5: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2: Well, I remember we were looking at that picture by
Speaker 2: Lyle Labberty, taken at the Patterson Gimlin film site. I mean,
Speaker 2: the whole community was looking since nineteen sixty seven, and
Speaker 2: it was only in the year two thousand or something
Speaker 2: like that that doctor Meldrum kind of let us in on, well,
Speaker 2: what that actually what we're looking at. We didn't have
Speaker 2: eyes to see, but it took somebody with an expertise
Speaker 2: in primate foot anatomy to say, oh, that's that's evidence
Speaker 2: the mid tarsal pressure. That's pressure ridge right there, and
Speaker 2: the flexibility the mid part of the foot, and because
Speaker 2: that's perfectly normal, all apes have that, you know, and
Speaker 2: we're all looking at it forever. So this one random
Speaker 2: witness that you mentioned or whatever, like coming to that
Speaker 2: conclusion on his own, I doubt it. Yeah, And that's
Speaker 2: just more evidence that modern day reports can easily be
Speaker 2: tainted essentially by fabrication or whatever else. But those early reports,
Speaker 2: I think again hold a little bit more value now
Speaker 2: because of the prevalence of sasquatch information now on the
Speaker 2: Internet and television and what it podcasts, everything like this one,
Speaker 2: et cetera. Those early reports they had no they had
Speaker 2: no information to go on.
Speaker 4: If you use the analogy of like you know, large
Speaker 4: language models, they're sort of trying to approximate, you know,
Speaker 4: some degree or some style of human learning, and you
Speaker 4: have to you have to train them, you have to
Speaker 4: give them information to build the model on. And so
Speaker 4: that's I think a good analogy is like the testimony
Speaker 4: today could represent humans that have been trained, you know,
Speaker 4: by listening to many many many other sasquatch podcasts and
Speaker 4: what many other claimants say and many TV shows, and
Speaker 4: so from all of that information, you could train a
Speaker 4: person to then generate a report that would have all
Speaker 4: the hallmarks of something legitimate versus like what were people
Speaker 4: in the eighteen hundreds being quote unquote trained on. You know,
Speaker 4: they didn't even have the known apes to incorporate into
Speaker 4: their models. And so when they observe things that are
Speaker 4: consistent and things that are reflective of what we now
Speaker 4: know to be actual ape behaviors and other trends, and well, yeah,
Speaker 4: that's that's pretty compelling at the very least.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, let me throw this out because I
Speaker 2: ran across some pretty shocking statistics this past week or so.
Speaker 2: And again, always fact check me, always look at the numbers.
Speaker 2: And you know, maybe I'm underestimating, maybe I'm overestimating. I
Speaker 2: don't really know, but something on the turn, something on
Speaker 2: the term of one out of five Americans today is
Speaker 2: functionally illiterate. I mean, that's a sad truth, but it
Speaker 2: seems to be the truth. So something like twenty give
Speaker 2: or take a few percentage. Whether it's seventeen or twenty
Speaker 2: three doesn't matter. Let's just say one out of five,
Speaker 2: twenty percent of Americans today are functionally literate, and what
Speaker 2: that essentially means is that they can't read directions well,
Speaker 2: if at all, they would have trouble filling out forms
Speaker 2: and all that sort of stuff. You know, it's a
Speaker 2: real detriment. And I've known people in my life, very
Speaker 2: intelligent people who were functionally literate. They just didn't have
Speaker 2: the schooling. They didn't they had other issues. I speak
Speaker 2: to Michael Freeman very frequently. His father was largely illiterate.
Speaker 2: You know, I think he was very heavily dsyslexic based
Speaker 2: on his writing styles and things like that. I've seen
Speaker 2: a lot of his original writing and things like Michael
Speaker 2: told me, if you ever saw my dad's signature, that's
Speaker 2: almost certainly my mother's. Because dad didn't write, he didn't read.
Speaker 2: I never knew him to read a book, although to
Speaker 2: his credit, he was trying really hard to read better.
Speaker 2: Towards the end of his life. He was trying to
Speaker 2: read Bigfoot books and things like that, and he had
Speaker 2: some struggle with it. He was getting better by the
Speaker 2: time he died. But essentially he's functionally literate. So when
Speaker 2: I when when when I bring up like people should
Speaker 2: read the foundational texts, I have to at least put
Speaker 2: it out there that, like I fully understand this, probably
Speaker 2: you know, again, one out of five people in America,
Speaker 2: maybe one out of five people listening to this very
Speaker 2: podcast would be unable.
Speaker 6: To read that those posts.
Speaker 2: Well, probably not this podcast, to be fair, but I'm
Speaker 2: still there's there are some listeners, whether they're young or older,
Speaker 2: and just didn't get the schooling they needed or had
Speaker 2: some other stability that perhaps prohibited them. And so coming
Speaker 2: around to my point here, and I'm going to ask
Speaker 2: you Matt this or maybe you might know too, Boba,
Speaker 2: but it feel like this is like in Matt's ball park.
Speaker 2: How many of these foundational texts have an audio book
Speaker 2: that's available?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 4: Man, yeah, unfortunately, like almost none of them. I do
Speaker 4: think that Sanderson's book is available in an audiobook format
Speaker 4: because a good buddy of mine, shout out to my
Speaker 4: buddy Kevin in Colorado, one of my good friends, known
Speaker 4: him for many many years, had texted me and he
Speaker 4: was like, oh, I'm listening to Abominable Snowman Legend come
Speaker 4: to life and the narrator has an epic English accent.
Speaker 4: So at least that one's out there, But you know,
Speaker 4: it really comes down to like, for example, I think
Speaker 4: the author or the publisher has to initiate that process
Speaker 4: for that project. So whoever owns Green's works, let's say
Speaker 4: is Hancock House, would have to either send in a
Speaker 4: manuscript that could be read.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 4: Even I think Audible now has an AI reader where
Speaker 4: you can you can apply and they can have an
Speaker 4: AI voice read your text and that becomes the audiobook.
Speaker 4: But you know, it's it's up to either the author
Speaker 4: or whoever owns owns the work. So unfortunately, I you know,
Speaker 4: whoever owns a lot of those works has just never
Speaker 4: initiated that process to have those converted into audiobooks. And
Speaker 4: that's that's they're missing out on a lot because I
Speaker 4: do think people would would glean something from that, and
Speaker 4: the audiobook process is not easy. I've been wrestling with
Speaker 4: that for a while. But you know, I'm sure there's
Speaker 4: other especially for authors that are deceased, why not use
Speaker 4: the AI function, you know, because it's not like we
Speaker 4: can get Green to read it because he's deceased.
Speaker 3: Or Krants, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 4: So there there are pathways to that now, but it
Speaker 4: would be up to you know, whoever owns those books
Speaker 4: to do it. But that is an unfortunate reality, is
Speaker 4: that there's not a lot of other options, and not
Speaker 4: all of those books are readily available to find and
Speaker 4: get from let's say Amazon with two days shipping, you know,
Speaker 4: because some of them are out of print, or some
Speaker 4: of them are by small publishers who print stock first
Speaker 4: and then list some of that stock online to be ordered,
Speaker 4: and it becomes expensive, and there's expensive shipping. So there
Speaker 4: is a bit of a barrier to entry on some
Speaker 4: of those older books.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 4: Some of them are easy to get and some of
Speaker 4: them are not, which is very unfortunate, you know. To
Speaker 4: your point about literacy, it is I laugh at myself
Speaker 4: often because I often lament that, you know, people don't
Speaker 4: read books anymore. And so the way I addressed it
Speaker 4: was to write about it in a book.
Speaker 2: Right, all right, stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond
Speaker 2: with Cliff and Bobo will be right back after these messages.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, your.
Speaker 2: Book brings up another thorn on that rose. There is
Speaker 2: that along with that statistic that I stumbled across about
Speaker 2: approximately twenty percent of Americans are functionally illiterate, a little
Speaker 2: over fifty I was told, and again, fact check me. Please.
Speaker 2: Whatever the number is, you're going to find it horrifying.
Speaker 2: About fifty percent of Americans read at fifth grade level
Speaker 2: or below, so books like yours were, you know, are
Speaker 2: going to be inaccessible to them in some ways. But also,
Speaker 2: being a teacher, a former teacher at least, I know
Speaker 2: that comprehension levels when you're listening are many years above
Speaker 2: that which you read. You know you can understand a
Speaker 2: story much higher than your reading level by listening to
Speaker 2: it than reading it. So again, so to get the
Speaker 2: foundational information that we all three here deem so important,
Speaker 2: what are the options? I guess, as you mentioned, AI
Speaker 2: can read a book to you, okay, that that's a
Speaker 2: real solid, kind of brand new innovation that will help
Speaker 2: a lot of people. I think with this this kind
Speaker 2: of disability, I don't know if if it's appropriate or
Speaker 2: correct even to say that illiteracy is some sort of disability,
Speaker 2: But when you're trying to read a book, it is right.
Speaker 6: I don't know any way around that one.
Speaker 2: I don't want to handle with kids, gloves or anybody
Speaker 2: getting mad at me about this. But if you want
Speaker 2: to read a book and can't there's the issue, right,
Speaker 2: So what can get you through that bump? Because I
Speaker 2: imagine some of our listeners would think that doctor Meldrum's
Speaker 2: book is too high above their head because these are
Speaker 2: scientists and I don't know about science, and it's actually
Speaker 2: pretty accessible.
Speaker 6: I think to most readers.
Speaker 2: But what other options might there be? So we have
Speaker 2: the AI option. If you can get that text into
Speaker 2: a computer, the AI can read it to you. Are
Speaker 2: there other avenues or other resources available for people our
Speaker 2: listeners who might want to access those foundational texts, or
Speaker 2: at least ideas Todd Prescott's YouTube channel I think would
Speaker 2: be one of them, because he has a lot of
Speaker 2: the foundational people on video talking about things anything else
Speaker 2: that I'm overlooking that might be able to help our
Speaker 2: listeners who might struggle with this.
Speaker 4: I mean, anybody listening to this podcast is technologically literate,
Speaker 4: you know, because they found the podcast. They're using us smartphone,
Speaker 4: a tablet, a desktop, a laptop, something of that nature.
Speaker 4: And so I think, you know, if they had a
Speaker 4: book and they encountered a word that they weren't familiar with,
Speaker 4: they could they could google it, you know, they could
Speaker 4: search the definition of that word. I do think that
Speaker 4: encountering things that you've never encountered before is very good
Speaker 4: for people now in my book, like any term that
Speaker 4: I used that I thought wasn't in common parlance or
Speaker 4: something like that I define next to the word. But
Speaker 4: other words that you know, I might not have defined. Well,
Speaker 4: if you found my book because you heard me on
Speaker 4: a podcast and you ordered it from Amazon, you have
Speaker 4: a smartphone or a laptop or something, and people might
Speaker 4: be encouraged to go, oh, let me look that up,
Speaker 4: let me learn. Because that's one of the things that's
Speaker 4: frustrated me over the years, whether it was like television
Speaker 4: people or people in other literary avenues. When I was
Speaker 4: talking to people about potentially being involved with this book,
Speaker 4: they'd be like, Oh, you shouldn't use that word because
Speaker 4: no one's ever heard it. I'm like, well, how do
Speaker 4: you expect anyone to learn? Like you don't want to
Speaker 4: publish something that only includes things that you already know
Speaker 4: that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. And I don't think
Speaker 4: the audience feels that way. Everything I know is because
Speaker 4: I encountered it at a time when I didn't know it,
Speaker 4: you know what I mean. And so the books that
Speaker 4: were way above my comprehension at first, like Krantz's book,
Speaker 4: which is one of the first books I read, you know,
Speaker 4: I read Krantz's book years before I took an anthropology class,
Speaker 4: and or you know, like physical anatomy class. I mean
Speaker 4: I knew some degree of obviously anatomy and basic sciences,
Speaker 4: you know, coming from a family with all medical backgrounds
Speaker 4: and having completed high school or whatever. But like I
Speaker 4: learned because I encountered things. I'm like, I don't know
Speaker 4: what that is, but I sure need to know if
Speaker 4: I want to make it further in this book, and
Speaker 4: maybe it's useful for me as a sasquatch researcher. So
Speaker 4: I'm not a big fan of the idea that we
Speaker 4: should avoid things because they might be new to people,
Speaker 4: or to assume that well, no one's going to understand
Speaker 4: this because they're just not smart enough.
Speaker 3: Like I just don't. I don't believe that at all.
Speaker 4: But it is I think to your point, it is
Speaker 4: hard for newcomers because if they do step into the
Speaker 4: sea of podcasts and YouTube, they're not all created equally
Speaker 4: in terms of like their presentation of historical material or
Speaker 4: commitment to presenting that material.
Speaker 3: Accurately.
Speaker 2: You know, a lot of it is straight out wrong.
Speaker 2: I mean, some of them are bs, but like a
Speaker 2: lot of the ones that from good people and stuff
Speaker 2: are just inaccurate, you know, And anybody can be wrong,
Speaker 2: of course, you know, but how's the guy supposed to.
Speaker 3: Know wildly inaccurate?
Speaker 4: But I would again, I don't think it's an erroneous
Speaker 4: assumption to think that if you're listening to this on
Speaker 4: your phone or your laptop desktop, you know that you
Speaker 4: do have access to some of that foundational material online
Speaker 4: via Amazon, you know, and I can put links to
Speaker 4: some of that in the show notes. There's a great
Speaker 4: repository of published papers that came from like Northwest Anthropological
Speaker 4: Research Notes or the International Society of Cryptozoologies Journal, or
Speaker 4: the Journal of Scientific Exploration, like a whole host of
Speaker 4: different journals that are all cryptozoological articles that are all
Speaker 4: in one place, alphabetical by author, and I'll link that
Speaker 4: in the show notes. And so you can read a
Speaker 4: lot of great papers by Green, Krantz, Bender, Nageld, Meldrum,
Speaker 4: on and on and on. You know a number of
Speaker 4: different people that made big contributions. So there's plenty of
Speaker 4: free options online too. Or Meldrum's Relict Hominoid Inquiry, which
Speaker 4: is a lot of that's going to be a lot
Speaker 4: more technical than my book too, But at the very least,
Speaker 4: even without spending a dollar, using the same smartphone or
Speaker 4: computer that you're listening to this on, you can read
Speaker 4: a bunch of really good material written by excellent researchers
Speaker 4: who are definitely committed to the truth.
Speaker 2: That's fantastic because you know, Bigfoot is for everybody, and
Speaker 2: information is for everybody, and I'm a huge advocate for
Speaker 2: access for all essentially when it comes to information and
Speaker 2: that kind of stuff. So it's good to know that
Speaker 2: there are resources for people, and you know, because again,
Speaker 2: I think most of our listeners probably have these books
Speaker 2: or have read most of them, or at least some
Speaker 2: them at some point or another. But I'm thinking it
Speaker 2: occurred to me this past week when I ran across
Speaker 2: that startling statistic that maybe one out of five, as
Speaker 2: much as one out of five people could not access
Speaker 2: the information even if it was in their hands, and
Speaker 2: then thinking, well, what do we do for those folks?
Speaker 2: Because bigfoots for them too, and I want to make
Speaker 2: sure that they have some sort of accessible avenue to
Speaker 2: get these sort of information. So I'm glad we had
Speaker 2: a chance to at least speak about that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think for the average person listening to this,
Speaker 4: they still have it pretty easy in terms of getting
Speaker 4: that stuff because I started searching in the early two
Speaker 4: thousands and you guys started much earlier than me, and
Speaker 4: that like Bobo had the advantage of going to Humboldt State,
Speaker 4: and so he's kind of like in a repository of
Speaker 4: books in the epicenter of Bigfoot, you know, the history
Speaker 4: of Bigfoot. But dude, how hard was it, Bobo back
Speaker 4: in the day, pre Internet or pre Amazon to find
Speaker 4: like five big Foot books that you wanted to read,
Speaker 4: like one library or just in general, like, it was
Speaker 4: so hard to find those.
Speaker 7: Book book Yeah, yeah, it was, it was, It was.
Speaker 5: It was tough.
Speaker 7: Yeah, And I still I laughed because a lot of times,
Speaker 7: like well, Humboldt State, the only other person to check
Speaker 7: out some of these books or like, you know, like
Speaker 7: the stuff in the humbold room for local stuff was
Speaker 7: was Danny Perez nineteen eighty one.
Speaker 4: Because I remember it took me years to find a
Speaker 4: copy of Apes among us.
Speaker 3: I think the first book.
Speaker 4: I read was Krantz and then once I remember getting
Speaker 4: Lauren Coleman's Bigfoot The True Story of Apes in America,
Speaker 4: like right when that was released, and I got Melton's
Speaker 4: book right when it was released, and I don't think
Speaker 4: I got a copy of Apes among Us until after
Speaker 4: those two.
Speaker 7: Well, I was pretty lucky because I lived in La
Speaker 7: County and La County Library system was pretty big, and
Speaker 7: like you could put in a request they'd searched the
Speaker 7: whole library system for they said it might take two
Speaker 7: weeks or three weeks to get it. They they could
Speaker 7: get you a lot of those. I looked for any
Speaker 7: book with Bigfoot or Sasquatch in the titles, and they
Speaker 7: were pretty good about getting those teop but it was
Speaker 7: still it was hard to know what the title was
Speaker 7: and you had to know the author. And if you
Speaker 7: never saw the book before, you know, you might hear
Speaker 7: someone talk about it, or I'd say, like if you
Speaker 7: found two or three books in the library that I
Speaker 7: had big Foot stas question, that was like a.
Speaker 5: Gold mine because that was rare.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think nowadays, like with the exceptions of
Speaker 4: the ones that are out of print, if you went
Speaker 4: to our book Recommendations episode just about every one of
Speaker 4: those books you can find on Amazon. You might have
Speaker 4: to get a used copy, but they're all on there
Speaker 4: for the most part, which is like if we had
Speaker 4: had that in the early days, like oh, you can
Speaker 4: just get like one click and get this book, that'd
Speaker 4: have been pretty nice, you know.
Speaker 5: Oh dude, for sure.
Speaker 2: All right, Well that's about it. Should we tie this
Speaker 2: one up and head over to the member section for
Speaker 2: a brand new topic of discussion?
Speaker 4: We should because I know Bobo was just out in
Speaker 4: the woods for a few days and we need to
Speaker 4: hear how that went.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, for sure.
Speaker 6: Absolutely.
Speaker 7: All right, folks, Well, thanks for joining us at Bigfoot
Speaker 7: Beyond with shooting.
Speaker 1: May some of us. Yeah, so thanks for joining us.
Speaker 1: We appreciate it. Hit like hicks, Share and check out
Speaker 1: those books we mentioned. Their links are below those papers
Speaker 1: and articles. You can read good stuff and let us
Speaker 1: tell you think.
Speaker 7: All right, you all keep it squatched until next week.
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