WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.480 --> 00:00:03.080 You hear us talk about ways to unlock VIP membership 2 00:00:03.080 --> 00:00:05.320 through your Apple account in the Apple Podcast app and 3 00:00:05.360 --> 00:00:08.759 also through Patreon or Spotify. To unlock a full VIP 4 00:00:08.919 --> 00:00:12.240 membership with full access to archives and ad free website 5 00:00:12.480 --> 00:00:16.039 and customizable podcast feeds that are compatible with the Apple 6 00:00:16.079 --> 00:00:19.800 Podcast app and many iOS and Android apps, along with 7 00:00:19.839 --> 00:00:23.199 streaming ability right from our ad free mobile site, go 8 00:00:23.239 --> 00:00:28.239 to pwtorch dot com slash go VIP. 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Pro Wrestling 17 00:00:53.159 --> 00:00:56.679 Torch weekly newsletters over two decades, a podcast on demand 18 00:00:56.719 --> 00:00:58.640 dating back to the mid two thousand, starting with pay 19 00:00:58.640 --> 00:01:02.719 per view roundtables of fascinating retro radio shows, including many 20 00:01:02.759 --> 00:01:05.439 that I hosted in the nineteen nineties and an AD 21 00:01:05.439 --> 00:01:09.040 free website. Exclusive content on that website only for VIP 22 00:01:09.159 --> 00:01:12.879 members written and audio, and a lightning fast, smooth, AD 23 00:01:12.920 --> 00:01:16.000 free VIP mobile site for all of our content. Don't 24 00:01:16.000 --> 00:01:18.480 miss out on all the benefits. Treat yourself to a 25 00:01:18.560 --> 00:01:22.920 VIP membership, PW torch dot Com, slash Go VIP, go 26 00:01:23.040 --> 00:01:26.239 all the Way, Go VIP, PW torch dot Com, slash 27 00:01:26.280 --> 00:01:44.000 Go VIP. 28 00:01:38.560 --> 00:01:42.599 Now, PW Torch and Speaker bring you the Wade Keller 29 00:01:42.719 --> 00:01:44.159 Pro Wrestling Podcast. 30 00:01:49.040 --> 00:01:51.719 On today's Way Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast, we jump back 31 00:01:51.799 --> 00:01:55.640 fifteen years to the twenty eleven episode of our live 32 00:01:55.719 --> 00:01:58.359 call in show. James Caldon and Pat McNeil talked with 33 00:01:58.439 --> 00:02:01.719 callers about a thousand and one different possible directions ww 34 00:02:01.840 --> 00:02:03.359 WE could go with through aout the following week, How 35 00:02:03.439 --> 00:02:05.159 Doughabie could answer the big question of what they do 36 00:02:05.200 --> 00:02:07.879 at SummerSlam to top money of the banks. John Cena 37 00:02:07.920 --> 00:02:10.639 cm punk match, possible pay per view matches or triple 38 00:02:10.719 --> 00:02:14.479 higainst Punk Edge's possible reinvolvement in Christian storyline Goldber coming 39 00:02:14.479 --> 00:02:17.120 to WWE, and why it didn't work out. More about 40 00:02:17.120 --> 00:02:20.960 Cmpunk's future and in the VIP exclusive. After show, they 41 00:02:21.199 --> 00:02:23.639 dove into the McNeil mailbag for a look at the 42 00:02:23.719 --> 00:02:26.960 history of tournaments in pro wrestling. So let's get to it. 43 00:02:27.039 --> 00:02:29.520 This originally livestream down July twenty, twenty eleven. It's Today's 44 00:02:29.520 --> 00:02:32.719 way Keller Prosing Podcast fifteen years ago. Flashback for Friday, 45 00:02:33.039 --> 00:02:34.879 August seventh, twenty twenty six. 46 00:03:04.039 --> 00:03:06.759 You're listening, dude, p by tors live gast does this 47 00:03:06.879 --> 00:03:09.840 pea by Torch has just been Editor James Budwell hosting 48 00:03:09.919 --> 00:03:15.120 today on Wednesday, July twentieth, twenty eleventh, day by of course, 49 00:03:15.120 --> 00:03:19.240 on Wednesday's Torch Calmas, Patty Neil, Pat How are you today? 50 00:03:19.400 --> 00:03:22.120 I'm doing fine, James, Hello you people. 51 00:03:22.879 --> 00:03:25.120 Hello, indeed and Pat Do you know the significance of 52 00:03:25.159 --> 00:03:25.759 today's show? 53 00:03:28.599 --> 00:03:29.560 I'm guessing I don't. 54 00:03:30.159 --> 00:03:33.439 Okay. It is the first Pat me Neil live cast 55 00:03:33.680 --> 00:03:37.280 of the post McMahon era. Now that is significant. 56 00:03:37.360 --> 00:03:44.680 Oh that's right, yes, yeah, that's technically Privilelake is part 57 00:03:44.719 --> 00:03:45.719 of the McMahon family. 58 00:03:45.840 --> 00:03:51.199 So so the the first helms the first Helmsley era 59 00:03:52.240 --> 00:03:53.280 live cast of Patty. 60 00:03:53.800 --> 00:03:56.879 That might that might be well, we've already well that's true, 61 00:03:56.879 --> 00:03:58.919 but there already was a Helmsley era. They did the 62 00:03:58.919 --> 00:04:01.599 same storyline would have back in nineteen ninety nine. 63 00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:06.159 Yes, that's true as well. So I guess my whole 64 00:04:06.159 --> 00:04:08.240 intro is just messed up. Thanks, Pat, appreciate it now. 65 00:04:08.960 --> 00:04:10.280 I'm an I can help. 66 00:04:12.199 --> 00:04:12.240 That. 67 00:04:12.439 --> 00:04:15.759 We've got a lot of people on hold and not 68 00:04:15.919 --> 00:04:18.920 too much not too busy of a news day today, 69 00:04:19.040 --> 00:04:22.759 a lot of still just fought out from raw money 70 00:04:22.759 --> 00:04:25.160 the bank to talk about. Uh. Pat, you did the 71 00:04:25.519 --> 00:04:28.519 roundtable for towards VAP members with Dade Keller and Bruce 72 00:04:28.600 --> 00:04:32.079 Mitchell on Sunday talking about pay per view. We haven't 73 00:04:32.120 --> 00:04:35.079 heard you talk about raw though, and the big storyline 74 00:04:35.079 --> 00:04:37.600 twist you alluded to, you know, which would be the 75 00:04:37.720 --> 00:04:41.199 command is out and Trump h is in. What's your 76 00:04:41.199 --> 00:04:45.639 take on that storyline development? Is that maybe where you 77 00:04:45.720 --> 00:04:48.439 expected them to go? Is that a suitable direction? Do 78 00:04:48.439 --> 00:04:50.920 you need to see more? What's your evaluation right now? 79 00:04:52.759 --> 00:04:55.319 That's not really what I expected them to go. That's 80 00:04:55.319 --> 00:05:00.600 definitely after Sunday night. I mean, it's it seems like 81 00:05:00.680 --> 00:05:03.360 every year around this sum you know, every year summertime, 82 00:05:03.480 --> 00:05:06.000 vincac Man gets bored and writes himself out of you know, 83 00:05:06.600 --> 00:05:09.000 and he either gets you know, he has scaffolding fall 84 00:05:09.040 --> 00:05:11.120 on him, or he gets his lima blown up, or 85 00:05:11.199 --> 00:05:14.399 you know, something ridiculous like that. So you'll excuse me 86 00:05:14.439 --> 00:05:16.480 if I you know, you'll excuse me if I don't 87 00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:18.839 think this is a permanent arrangement. I know that Vinci 88 00:05:18.920 --> 00:05:21.560 Man is sixty five, and you know there's something to 89 00:05:21.680 --> 00:05:24.360 the the you know, he's trying to teach Cripolates the 90 00:05:24.399 --> 00:05:26.879 business so that he can one day take over. And yeah, 91 00:05:26.959 --> 00:05:29.920 and Vincy Man, from from what we've heard, is not 92 00:05:30.120 --> 00:05:33.759 as uh, he's not as single minded as he used 93 00:05:33.800 --> 00:05:35.399 to be. He doesn't have the energy he used to 94 00:05:35.439 --> 00:05:37.319 and and you know it's because he's sixty five, and 95 00:05:37.759 --> 00:05:40.759 you know, people just aren't built to go forever. And 96 00:05:41.600 --> 00:05:43.839 lord knows vincc Man was trying to do. 97 00:05:43.839 --> 00:05:47.600 That, right right different. 98 00:05:47.480 --> 00:05:51.319 Yeah, then, yeah, Vince's vack. This will be back on 99 00:05:51.319 --> 00:05:54.560 television eventually. But you know, I mean, I mean, I 100 00:05:54.680 --> 00:05:57.600 understand this, this might be more significant because of Vince's 101 00:05:57.680 --> 00:06:00.079 age that I don't think this is really a the 102 00:06:00.199 --> 00:06:03.360 see change in w W A, And I was disappointed 103 00:06:03.360 --> 00:06:06.199 that you know that they the focus of the film 104 00:06:06.199 --> 00:06:08.360 was on this instead of, Hey, what's going on with 105 00:06:08.399 --> 00:06:09.800 that WW Championship. 106 00:06:10.519 --> 00:06:13.040 Yeah, I mean I've had a couple I guess one 107 00:06:13.079 --> 00:06:15.680 and a half days. The thing about that, and I 108 00:06:15.839 --> 00:06:18.720 just I didn't like the idea of going right to 109 00:06:18.759 --> 00:06:22.600 a tournament and them not a now acknowledging the elf 110 00:06:22.720 --> 00:06:24.120 in the room, which is that this is not the 111 00:06:24.199 --> 00:06:26.920 legitimate title. I mean, they spent the entire TV time, 112 00:06:27.480 --> 00:06:29.399 they spent about three two or two or three weeks, 113 00:06:29.399 --> 00:06:31.279 you know, probably the last week they're really hitting home 114 00:06:31.319 --> 00:06:34.800 on this. The importance of the title, the important and 115 00:06:34.839 --> 00:06:37.519 the entire match on Sunday between Punk and Sina was 116 00:06:37.560 --> 00:06:40.839 about the title. That was of utmost importance. The entire 117 00:06:40.879 --> 00:06:43.120 match and build up was the title. And then they 118 00:06:43.160 --> 00:06:45.680 move on and just out well, I guess, well the tournament, 119 00:06:46.240 --> 00:06:48.600 you know, it just and then it seemed like the 120 00:06:48.639 --> 00:06:51.439 matches were sort of I mean not that they weren't 121 00:06:51.480 --> 00:06:54.000 thrown together, but the vibe I got was this isn't 122 00:06:54.040 --> 00:06:56.040 for the real title. This is sort of a we 123 00:06:56.040 --> 00:06:57.560 don't we don't know what to do with two hours 124 00:06:57.560 --> 00:06:59.639 of TV right after the pay per views, so we're 125 00:06:59.680 --> 00:07:01.360 just kind of come up with something that still the show. 126 00:07:01.639 --> 00:07:05.519 It was, it was missing the the acknowledgment of what 127 00:07:05.639 --> 00:07:09.279 the situation was. Uh, but Pat, what was your take 128 00:07:09.319 --> 00:07:11.480 on the on the title? And I mean right now, 129 00:07:11.600 --> 00:07:14.199 right now? The advertising for for the tournament, I'm sorry, 130 00:07:14.279 --> 00:07:17.040 the advertising for next week's raw is miss ray the 131 00:07:17.079 --> 00:07:20.480 finals of this make believe tournament? Does that happen? Do 132 00:07:20.519 --> 00:07:23.439 they know? Avoided? Because mcmon is that? What's what do 133 00:07:23.439 --> 00:07:24.800 you think? How do you think it will play out 134 00:07:24.800 --> 00:07:25.199 next week? 135 00:07:27.399 --> 00:07:30.199 I would think that after you know, after following through 136 00:07:30.240 --> 00:07:33.120 with this for for an entire two hour episode of 137 00:07:33.199 --> 00:07:35.279 rob people would would get a little annoyed if they 138 00:07:35.360 --> 00:07:36.600 if they just scraped the match. 139 00:07:37.639 --> 00:07:37.800 You know. 140 00:07:38.000 --> 00:07:41.120 My actual expectation of what's gonna happen is we get 141 00:07:41.199 --> 00:07:44.600 Raised Mysterio versus the Miz, you know, get a nice 142 00:07:44.720 --> 00:07:47.600 lengthy match Rarey Maisterio wins and then Alberto dol Rio 143 00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:50.319 comes out cash is an end, cashes the money in 144 00:07:50.319 --> 00:07:53.360 the bank and and and beat up ray Masterio and 145 00:07:53.399 --> 00:07:55.279 win the title. That that's my guess is to what 146 00:07:55.360 --> 00:07:56.000 happens from here? 147 00:07:58.040 --> 00:08:01.600 Yeah, And I said happening. You know, I think that's 148 00:08:01.600 --> 00:08:05.079 a reasonable scenario. I think that I can see that happening. 149 00:08:06.920 --> 00:08:11.480 I mean, and an asport of this, Pat is does 150 00:08:11.560 --> 00:08:13.920 see them Pulk? Do you think Pat does CM punk 151 00:08:14.759 --> 00:08:18.439 kind of stay out of TV off TV for the 152 00:08:18.600 --> 00:08:21.160 entire rest of the year for a couple of months. 153 00:08:21.199 --> 00:08:24.000 For I mean, where do they go to SummerSlam and 154 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:27.879 have a match that is equal or in their case, 155 00:08:27.920 --> 00:08:32.840 hopefully better than punk scene in terms of build up anticipation. Well, 156 00:08:32.919 --> 00:08:35.360 what can they do for Summer Slam if they have 157 00:08:35.399 --> 00:08:36.720 punk and if they don't have Punk? 158 00:08:39.840 --> 00:08:43.480 See you know, if if they had Punk, what you 159 00:08:43.519 --> 00:08:46.399 know what what I would have wanted to do would 160 00:08:46.399 --> 00:08:48.759 be to do CM Punk versus John seen around two, 161 00:08:48.799 --> 00:08:51.919 which you know, even though Los Angeles is a decent 162 00:08:51.960 --> 00:08:54.200 wrestling town, it's not going to have the same flavor 163 00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:56.600 that it did in Chicago. It would probably be more 164 00:08:56.639 --> 00:08:59.679 fifty to fifty with Sena fans than Punk fans, and 165 00:08:59.679 --> 00:09:01.559 and and that would be okay if they you know, 166 00:09:01.720 --> 00:09:03.960 they if they had set this up, I don't know, 167 00:09:03.960 --> 00:09:08.039 we're having another another ww title comes into picture, or 168 00:09:08.120 --> 00:09:11.720 maybe or maybe you do Sina versus Punk versus Alberta 169 00:09:11.759 --> 00:09:14.759 del Rio, although you know, three lane match is not 170 00:09:14.879 --> 00:09:18.399 the best way of sorting this out. But uh, I mean, 171 00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:21.159 the you know, the title is the title because it's 172 00:09:21.159 --> 00:09:23.639 sanctioned by w w A. So what Punk has know 173 00:09:24.120 --> 00:09:26.399 in WV storyline is not the title. He just has 174 00:09:26.440 --> 00:09:29.080 the velpity one, right. I know that doesn't make a 175 00:09:29.080 --> 00:09:30.480 lot of I don't. I know that doesn't make sense 176 00:09:30.480 --> 00:09:32.080 to a lot of people. I mean you also have to, 177 00:09:32.799 --> 00:09:34.720 you know, if if Punk is not going to be 178 00:09:34.759 --> 00:09:37.320 there then and if Funk is really going to be 179 00:09:37.320 --> 00:09:39.919 off TV for months, and then what they did Sunday 180 00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:43.960 was stupid and they shouldn't have done it. Yeah, but 181 00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:46.159 if that's the case, you do you do del Rio 182 00:09:46.279 --> 00:09:48.720 versus Sino, or you do del Rio versus scena versus 183 00:09:48.759 --> 00:09:51.799 the stereo or or something along those lines. 184 00:09:52.679 --> 00:09:56.080 Right, because you rematch, you know, I mean, like you said, 185 00:09:56.240 --> 00:10:00.039 it is sort of concluded, because rematch for the the 186 00:10:00.720 --> 00:10:03.360 general title of ving champion or of the actual belt 187 00:10:03.360 --> 00:10:05.559 that Plunk has. And you get into that mess and 188 00:10:05.600 --> 00:10:08.440 you said to get in a the rio, and I mean, 189 00:10:08.440 --> 00:10:10.039 did they bring Plunk in and do you have Punk, 190 00:10:10.080 --> 00:10:12.000 Durio and Cina for the right you know, who's a 191 00:10:12.039 --> 00:10:13.919 real champion and have a three way ladder match or 192 00:10:13.960 --> 00:10:14.480 something like that. 193 00:10:14.600 --> 00:10:18.919 I mean, did you know that you can enjoy commercial 194 00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:21.799 free versions of all of your favorite Weadkeler podcasts and 195 00:10:21.799 --> 00:10:25.279 pw Torch daily casts on Spotify. Just go to patreon 196 00:10:25.360 --> 00:10:29.279 dot com search pw Torch and subscribe to a VIP 197 00:10:29.399 --> 00:10:31.480 membership tier. 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But with third tier membership you can also 205 00:10:49.399 --> 00:10:52.799 unlock all the VIP podcasts, including Everything with Rich and Wade, 206 00:10:52.840 --> 00:10:54.480 to Fix with Todd Martin that I host with Todd 207 00:10:54.480 --> 00:10:57.480 every week, the wad Keller News bulletins, post pay per 208 00:10:57.519 --> 00:11:01.000 view roundtables, and an array of other v IP exclusive 209 00:11:01.000 --> 00:11:04.559 podcasts with different hosts and different themes. Check out the lineup. 210 00:11:04.799 --> 00:11:08.960 Go to Patreon and search pw torch and subscribe and 211 00:11:09.039 --> 00:11:12.159 sync it up with Spotify or stay within the Patreon ecosystem. 212 00:11:12.440 --> 00:11:15.639 Either way works. Go to Patreon and start your seven 213 00:11:15.720 --> 00:11:16.799 day free trial. 214 00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:22.080 Or the other thing you could do is is and 215 00:11:22.159 --> 00:11:23.919 I know, you know, people won't be crazy about this 216 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:26.320 if you do CNN del Rio and then you have 217 00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:27.799 a CM Punk go after criple. 218 00:11:27.840 --> 00:11:31.360 Eh, That's what I was thinking. Yeah, that was the 219 00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:33.639 one where I'd say that would make the most sense. 220 00:11:33.960 --> 00:11:37.480 If they're trying to equal or top Sinu Punk and 221 00:11:37.519 --> 00:11:40.639 Money the bank would be triple h sets of the 222 00:11:40.679 --> 00:11:42.720 match with with Punk to get the title back. And 223 00:11:43.399 --> 00:11:45.399 I don't know necessarily it should be a title match 224 00:11:45.519 --> 00:11:48.759 per se, but to reclaim possession of the ballot in 225 00:11:48.840 --> 00:11:51.759 which you would give it to the Sina del Rio winner, 226 00:11:51.840 --> 00:11:53.600 you know, that would that might be a way to 227 00:11:53.679 --> 00:11:55.120 do it. And then if Punk, you know, we're to 228 00:11:55.159 --> 00:11:57.639 win an access storyline then and then I don't know 229 00:11:57.679 --> 00:11:59.720 what you did from there, but I mean it seems 230 00:11:59.759 --> 00:12:02.279 like just a three way or del Rio involved in 231 00:12:02.279 --> 00:12:04.519 a title match at this point. It's just not strong 232 00:12:04.639 --> 00:12:07.519 enough to to go for money to make the Summer 233 00:12:07.559 --> 00:12:09.919 Slam and have Suffer Slams feel better or you know, 234 00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:12.360 seem like a bigger event than money to make. And 235 00:12:13.159 --> 00:12:15.440 I mean would imagine, like you said that, it wouldn't 236 00:12:15.440 --> 00:12:18.000 make sense to have Punk win that match on Sunday 237 00:12:18.080 --> 00:12:21.080 unless he is going to be part of Summer Slam 238 00:12:21.159 --> 00:12:24.519 in some capacity. And yeah, I like to I like 239 00:12:24.559 --> 00:12:27.440 the I like the combination of Hunter, Punk and Seina 240 00:12:27.519 --> 00:12:30.200 dol Rio. That's probably the best way to go. But 241 00:12:30.480 --> 00:12:32.000 I don't know if that's where they're going. What do 242 00:12:32.039 --> 00:12:32.360 you think? 243 00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:35.840 Uh, I don't know either. Or they could have just 244 00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:38.480 or they could have Punk just you know, just walk 245 00:12:38.559 --> 00:12:40.720 in through the crowd while well, you know, right as 246 00:12:40.879 --> 00:12:43.120 right as they're about to start Mysterio and and Mive 247 00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:46.360 and just sit down then see hey everybody, you know, 248 00:12:46.519 --> 00:12:49.279 just I mean skirted that way. There are there are 249 00:12:49.320 --> 00:12:50.480 a few ways they could go with this. 250 00:12:51.559 --> 00:12:52.879 Yeah, and I think that's wrong. 251 00:12:53.639 --> 00:12:55.960 I think, but I. 252 00:12:56.679 --> 00:12:59.399 Think that, you know, I mean, what would Vincentpan do 253 00:12:59.440 --> 00:13:03.159 in real life if he would did something that stupid, Well, 254 00:13:03.200 --> 00:13:05.399 he's probably have an immediate tournament and try to you know, 255 00:13:05.759 --> 00:13:07.919 and try to do what they did, which is, you know, 256 00:13:08.240 --> 00:13:11.399 to get them Punk's name off of television. So there's 257 00:13:11.440 --> 00:13:13.639 there's you know, there's something to that. But if you 258 00:13:13.720 --> 00:13:16.039 wanted to, if you wanted to do a tournament and 259 00:13:16.039 --> 00:13:17.720 you wanted to make money off of it, you would 260 00:13:17.759 --> 00:13:19.559 just schedule the tournament for summer flame and do the 261 00:13:19.559 --> 00:13:20.000 whole thing. 262 00:13:19.919 --> 00:13:23.039 There, right, Yeah, and crowd I think. 263 00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:25.759 They I think I think they realized that that wasn't 264 00:13:25.759 --> 00:13:27.440 a good idea when they saw who they'd have to 265 00:13:27.440 --> 00:13:28.519 put in the tournament though. 266 00:13:29.960 --> 00:13:32.840 And that's that's a bigger pictures thing that you touched on. 267 00:13:32.960 --> 00:13:35.519 You just touched on. There is the depth. I mean, 268 00:13:35.519 --> 00:13:37.480 you look at who they had on that match, and 269 00:13:37.559 --> 00:13:41.159 you have Jack Swagger, who's done nothing. You've got, you know, 270 00:13:41.200 --> 00:13:43.559 I was trying to mis about the same level. You know, 271 00:13:43.639 --> 00:13:47.000 Raymond Sterio, who's sort of up and down, Archereuth, who 272 00:13:47.000 --> 00:13:51.639 feels like last month's news. It means off Ziggler, you're 273 00:13:51.759 --> 00:13:55.080 US champion, who isn't like a big deal. I thought, 274 00:13:55.120 --> 00:13:57.759 think there's an opportunity on Moneys roll a Ziggler to 275 00:13:57.919 --> 00:14:00.440 make him. You know, Roy stressed that he right now 276 00:14:00.519 --> 00:14:03.399 is the only top male champion in the raw brand. 277 00:14:04.039 --> 00:14:05.879 I think they really dropped the ball with Diggler with 278 00:14:05.879 --> 00:14:09.559 with an opportunity there, and it just it shows a 279 00:14:09.639 --> 00:14:11.279 lack of depth in the roster. When you when you 280 00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:15.519 remove John Cena from an eight man w title tournament, 281 00:14:16.120 --> 00:14:18.799 you know, it shows how little depth there is in 282 00:14:18.879 --> 00:14:22.360 this roster. So I don't know. Next next week's all 283 00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:24.679 is going to be interesting. I mean, and Wade and 284 00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:27.960 Jason talking about this last night's live cast, is do 285 00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:30.759 they go with wholesale changes the next week's Raw? Do they, 286 00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:33.360 you know, to make it seem like there's something major 287 00:14:33.440 --> 00:14:36.399 different with Mann out in Triple ah in Do they 288 00:14:36.440 --> 00:14:38.480 just go with the same show and have Triple HS 289 00:14:38.519 --> 00:14:42.600 be the authority figure and everything else feels the same, Pat, 290 00:14:42.840 --> 00:14:46.320 what do you expect for changes or uh, perhaps a 291 00:14:46.320 --> 00:14:48.960 different direction for the show or is that just sort of, 292 00:14:49.320 --> 00:14:50.840 you know, not going to happen. It's gonna be the 293 00:14:50.879 --> 00:14:52.799 same show, just a different authority figure next week? 294 00:14:54.679 --> 00:14:56.960 Well, I don't know what to expect, because you know, 295 00:14:57.000 --> 00:14:59.279 they're making this up as they go along. I mean, 296 00:14:59.440 --> 00:15:01.720 I'm you know, originally they had a different finish for 297 00:15:01.799 --> 00:15:04.440 Sunday for Sundays Pay for You than what they ended 298 00:15:04.519 --> 00:15:07.039 up with, which means that they what they did on 299 00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:10.240 Raw was was obviously different than what they originally envisioned. 300 00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:12.120 And you just keep going so on and so on 301 00:15:12.120 --> 00:15:14.440 and so on. I mean, if they're if they're committing 302 00:15:14.440 --> 00:15:16.440 to the Triple H direction, I would think they'd want 303 00:15:16.440 --> 00:15:18.679 to make they'd want to make changes. I don't think 304 00:15:18.679 --> 00:15:20.840 that they'll have wholesale changes ready for next week, but 305 00:15:20.840 --> 00:15:22.120 if they want to phase them in over the next 306 00:15:22.120 --> 00:15:25.080 few weeks, that would be great. I'd have no problem 307 00:15:25.080 --> 00:15:29.559 with it. You know, what this company, what what WWE 308 00:15:29.720 --> 00:15:33.159 sort of needs is is an aggressive I mean not 309 00:15:33.159 --> 00:15:35.279 not a not a reboot, but something like they did 310 00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:37.720 when they started the Attitude era. They you know, you 311 00:15:37.799 --> 00:15:39.919 got to remember after Brett Hart left, and even a 312 00:15:39.960 --> 00:15:42.720 little bit before Brett Hart left, they picked a few 313 00:15:42.759 --> 00:15:44.960 guys that they you know, that they wanted to push. 314 00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:48.159 They they picked the Rock, They they picked Kine, they 315 00:15:48.200 --> 00:15:51.200 picked they picked the New Age Outlaws and you know, 316 00:15:51.440 --> 00:15:54.360 and Triple H and Ken Shamrock. And they had those 317 00:15:54.360 --> 00:15:58.639 guys win and win and win every week that they had. 318 00:15:58.679 --> 00:16:00.720 They had the New Age Outlaws get the crap out 319 00:16:00.759 --> 00:16:03.480 of the Road Warriors several times until people got the 320 00:16:03.480 --> 00:16:05.240 point that they were the best tag team. They had 321 00:16:05.240 --> 00:16:07.720 the Rock go through everybody. They had Caine beat up 322 00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:09.559 Nick Foley and then beat up Nick Foley in a 323 00:16:09.559 --> 00:16:12.759 different costume, and and beat up the Undertaker and set 324 00:16:12.799 --> 00:16:15.360 his casking on fire until people figured out that Kan 325 00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:17.200 was supposed to being made of enter. They need to 326 00:16:17.200 --> 00:16:19.440 pick their three or four or five guys that they 327 00:16:19.480 --> 00:16:21.720 want to do this with, and they need to push 328 00:16:21.759 --> 00:16:24.600 them every week, and they have them win every week 329 00:16:24.879 --> 00:16:28.240 and have them look strong every week until everybody gets 330 00:16:28.240 --> 00:16:35.799 the point that these are the guys. Yeah, that's exactly 331 00:16:35.799 --> 00:16:39.159 what I'm saying. It's not well, it's not working. You 332 00:16:39.200 --> 00:16:41.039 look at the raw ratings, the raw ratings for this week, 333 00:16:41.080 --> 00:16:44.039 we're three point two, which would which was up, but 334 00:16:44.120 --> 00:16:46.360 that's still you know that that's still lower than as 335 00:16:46.399 --> 00:16:48.559 you pointed out, that's lower than they were a year ago, 336 00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:53.039 you know, for the same episode, and it's lower than 337 00:16:53.159 --> 00:16:54.799 and it's lower than it was two years ago, and 338 00:16:54.799 --> 00:16:56.360 it's lower than was three and you go, you go 339 00:16:56.399 --> 00:16:59.600 all the way back to the past decade and it 340 00:16:59.720 --> 00:17:00.559 just keep is trapping. 341 00:17:01.399 --> 00:17:05.000 Yeah, so what doing is not working? Yep, totally agree 342 00:17:05.000 --> 00:17:08.079 with Pat. Totally agree. And it's it would be interesting, 343 00:17:08.079 --> 00:17:10.960 like you mentioned, will these changes be rolled out? You 344 00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:14.880 know over time we will be wholestal changes. I mean, 345 00:17:14.920 --> 00:17:17.000 I don't know, and but I think when you hit 346 00:17:17.000 --> 00:17:19.599 on Pat is the exact thing, which is that they 347 00:17:19.599 --> 00:17:22.839 need to make some stars and go all the way 348 00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:26.200 you know, it's the TNA thing where they go halfway 349 00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:30.039 for a month and then oh okay, on the next guy, 350 00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:32.480 and then that person drops off, and then you do 351 00:17:32.519 --> 00:17:35.319 the exact same pattern, and nobody ever gets established says 352 00:17:35.640 --> 00:17:38.039 this is our top star or this is a top star. 353 00:17:38.480 --> 00:17:42.839 It's always it's the same repetitive cycle. And W has 354 00:17:42.839 --> 00:17:46.039 a benefit of having John Cena and you know acts, 355 00:17:46.119 --> 00:17:48.279 you know, Raymond Ceio a little bit below that and 356 00:17:48.519 --> 00:17:51.480 Randy ort On SmackDown, he's not doing great, but he's okay. 357 00:17:51.839 --> 00:17:53.680 But they had they had the benefit of John Cena, 358 00:17:53.680 --> 00:17:56.839 who is the premier star associate the brand, and that's 359 00:17:56.839 --> 00:17:59.559 something TEENA does not have. But yeah, I mean, Patty, 360 00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:02.440 that's the that's the issue for both companies, especially in W. 361 00:18:04.680 --> 00:18:07.240 Let's go ahead and let's shop to phone calls and 362 00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:10.039 get some viewpoints on the topics were covered, and also 363 00:18:10.079 --> 00:18:12.279 of course, uh, some other stuff going on in the 364 00:18:12.319 --> 00:18:17.319 news with TNA. I have another impact on Thursday just 365 00:18:17.319 --> 00:18:19.279 seems like it's another show. I couldn't even tell you 366 00:18:19.359 --> 00:18:21.559 the lineup even the name. Now it's about five matches 367 00:18:21.559 --> 00:18:23.599 of the next week's show. But it just seems like 368 00:18:23.680 --> 00:18:27.960 TNA is just I don't know, uh, not buzzworthy right now, 369 00:18:28.480 --> 00:18:31.880 but we'll take calls in TNA W as well, especially 370 00:18:31.960 --> 00:18:33.759 with all off from Money in the Bank and raw 371 00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:36.359 and I want to hear some perspectives from callers on that. 372 00:18:36.960 --> 00:18:38.640 And let's go ahead and jump to our first phone 373 00:18:38.680 --> 00:18:41.359 call and go to the three to one three area code. 374 00:18:41.440 --> 00:18:42.920 Welcome to the show. Please say to your name and 375 00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:43.519 where you're from. 376 00:18:44.559 --> 00:18:46.279 Hey guys, this is one from the truer. 377 00:18:46.559 --> 00:18:47.799 Hey, Wayne, what's unding mind tonight? 378 00:18:49.079 --> 00:18:52.920 Well, I just wanted to talk about about we're on 379 00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:58.640 the Convinced Movement angle. It to me, it's just reaped 380 00:18:58.680 --> 00:19:04.160 of lazy booking. And I say that because I mean, 381 00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:07.680 look at it, like you said, already, in the tournament, 382 00:19:08.319 --> 00:19:12.680 you had no sena. Not only in the tournament you 383 00:19:12.799 --> 00:19:17.359 had no sena, but you had Alberto del Rio who 384 00:19:17.400 --> 00:19:21.759 had just won on him the bank and now he's, 385 00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:25.319 you know, competing for the world title. Yeah, you know, 386 00:19:25.920 --> 00:19:28.920 it just seemed to me like this was something they 387 00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:34.240 came with the night before or maye night of that day, 388 00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:38.640 because look, Vince McMahon, for the most part of the year, 389 00:19:39.279 --> 00:19:42.839 actually not until the Punk Angle, he wasn't even a 390 00:19:42.920 --> 00:19:49.119 presence on Raw or SmackDown. We were led to believe 391 00:19:49.160 --> 00:19:52.759 that the Raw GM was calling the shots for Raw 392 00:19:53.599 --> 00:19:59.079 and Teddy Long was calling the shots for SmackDown. So me, 393 00:19:59.119 --> 00:20:02.960 as a fan, why should I care if Vince McMahon 394 00:20:03.319 --> 00:20:06.880 isn't going to be on television anymore or not a 395 00:20:06.960 --> 00:20:11.279 character anymore, because you know, he wasn't even putting his 396 00:20:11.400 --> 00:20:16.079 presence on the show anyway. So to me, it just 397 00:20:16.119 --> 00:20:19.839 seems like they he did that to get out of 398 00:20:20.079 --> 00:20:23.400 having the fire scene. And it was really clare to 399 00:20:23.480 --> 00:20:26.839 me that, you know, they would rather fire Vince McMahon 400 00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:30.039 than John Sema, and that left a bad taste in 401 00:20:30.079 --> 00:20:30.480