Speaker 1: What is up, fellows, It goes I'm Dan Felly, Come
we at you with another twenty twenty four to twenty
twenty five NBA look Ahead.
Speaker 2: We're on at the Brooklyn Nets.
Speaker 1: We have brought on Lucas Kaplan from Nets Daily and
Switch Theory.
Speaker 2: Follow him at Lucas Kaplan Underscore.
Speaker 1: That's at luc As kap l a n Underscore. Fantastic
content does a great job covering the Nets a lot
of thorough breakdowns. We get into all things Brooklyn this
coming season as they entered this new phase of their
start their rebuild. We shouldn't call it very quickly. This
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let's get to talking some Brooklyn Nets with the one
the only mister Lucas. Kathlin Lucas, welcome back.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining me.
Speaker 1: For now, it's we can call it annual because it's
your second time coming on for our Brooklyn Nets. Look ahead,
excited to get into this team, which has changed a
bunch when you look at their direction.
Speaker 2: But first and foremost, how the heck are you doing? Man?
Speaker 3: I'm doing well. It's whiplash to go from covering the Nets,
specifically after their second half last year, to covering the
New York Liberty, which as we speak, are coming off
a win in which they led by forty points in
the third quarter. And they are, by any metric, one
of the best professional basketball teams in a long while.
So I'm I'm oscillating here.
Speaker 1: I have a special place for the Liberty because I
was just a huge when I was younger, Theresa Witherspoon fan,
and so I could sit there and watch highlights of
her all day.
Speaker 2: So and look deserve to.
Speaker 1: Cover the Liberty right now because of the team that
you're gonna have to cover during the regular NBA season.
Speaker 2: That's all I say.
Speaker 3: Yes, I I sometimes I'm like, am I like being
too positive in my coverage of them. You know, I am,
I like too much of a cheerleader, and then I
remind myself what I am normally covering in the winter months,
and so I think, I'm I think I'm doing them justice.
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I think honestly, kudos and all the people
that are gonna cover the nets on a they look
they might be fun. I don't mean to like we
could dismiss this team in terms of wins of losses.
But the last time this organization was rebuilding, Uh, they
tried a bunch of cool shit and I covered them
extensively at the time, and I kind of enjoyed it.
So maybe you'll be in for for that. I mean
we have to start there, though, Which is what do
you make of like them just cannonballing full on.
Speaker 2: Into this rebuild.
Speaker 1: I think it's agreed that universally almost that this is
the route they should have gone. Do you want, I
guess agree with that. But two, were you surprised at
all that they ended up travel down this path?
Speaker 3: I Well, my first reaction is I was upset because
they made those McHale and Houston trades during the fourth
quarter of the Commissioner's Cup that the Liberty were playing in,
which really kind of ruined my night. But no, I
think there is truth to the noise that we heard
that they really were exploring the market for ways to
upgrade the team. I think if Donovan Mitchell to Brooklyn
was a real possibility, they would have tried to make
that happen. I just don't think Donovan ever really hit
the trade market, and I think over the course of
the last year year and a half it became clear
that there were no short term paths to a trade
to bring in a star. And when that reality set in,
I think that they accepted it and moved on to
this path. But I think the reason it took long,
and I think the reason people were upset is they
did believe in trying to upgrade the roster to bring
in another star around McHale. So I don't think we
should be surprised in retrospect. I think it was surprising
at the time, but I do kind of take them
at their word, At Sean Mark's word when he said, yeah,
we were looking for ways to upgrade the roster, it
became clear we weren't going to be able to do
that in a meaningful way. So at this point in time,
I don't think we should be surprised, and I definitely
think it was the right thing to do.
Speaker 1: I agree it was the right thing to do, and
I don't I wasn't surprised that they did it. I
actually do think I was surprised it even knowing they
didn't get any actual players back from mchal Bridges. I'm
still kind of surprised at how much they got for
mchal Bridges. But with that said, I also kind of
wonder how much of it was just like we know
it was tied to what they did with Houston, but
I wonder just because Houston had been a team that
was linked to the trade deadlines to mchal Bridges, I
am going to be forever curious of, well, how quickly
did that deal but come about like that opportunity, Like
maybe they had discussed the parameters of it, but this
mckel bridges trade, probably they might still be looking to
upgrade the roster right now if they don't get their
next two draft the control their next two draft picks back.
Speaker 3: Right That's a great point because it makes you, I think,
I guess they really there was a world in which
they were content to keep writing this out, you know,
It's not that Houston didn't know that the nets we're
talking to the Knicks about McHale, It's that the Nets
must have really been solid, and hey, if we don't
do this pickswap, then we'll just keep McHale and keep
going as is. So I think they just did a
good job of being flexible. Is what all of this
sounds like to me?
Speaker 2: What do you think though?
Speaker 1: So the Nets are excuse me, the Rockets are still
going to control their twenty twenty seven first round pick. Yes,
how do you think that impacts what they're doing here?
Will They'll be a level of I don't want to
use the word urgency, but okay, we have to make
like kind of a huge jump after two years or
where they look at it as like, well, we have
control over our next.
Speaker 2: Two draft picks.
Speaker 1: We'll have two high prospects, and if we have to
kind of suffer through this gap year in terms of
assets at the end of a season, we'll deal with it.
I honestly don't know where I land, because like it's
still kind of a big deal that like you have
the next two that's great, Like okay, like you still
owe your twenty twenty seven pack, and these things normally
don't turn around that quickly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, the Nets had to take back two
of their assets from Houston, but they had to give
up four of the Phoenix Sun's assets, So it's not
like that trade made them asset rich. It's really all
from the Knicks. What I would say is that I
can't even think about twenty seven at this point. I
would say the first inflection point, honestly, is next offseason.
Brian Lewis knows everything about the Nets, as you well know,
wrote an article a few.
Speaker 2: Weeks nice too for anyone who cares.
Speaker 3: He's an incredible guy. Everyone should follow him any basketball fan.
But he wrote about the Nets like, aren't ruling out
trying to use twenty twenty five cap space, of which
right now they're slated to have a lot of. Is
that posturing? You know? Is that real? Do they really
not want to be that bad for that long? I
don't know, but I think the first inflection point before
twenty twenty seven is, honestly, let's see what happens next year,
Like if everything goes right, if they get the number
one pick, if they get Cooper flag, if someone's in
in coming to Brooklyn like, this is a very unlikely
outcome that the rebuilt only takes one season. But given
some of the stuff I think we've heard about their
willingness to use cap space next season, I would say
the first inflection point is next off season, and then
we'll see about twenty six and twenty seven.
Speaker 1: They also, aside from kind of burning the whole thing down,
they hire Jordy Fernandez. Do you have any insight into
just based off what we know about him and the
stuff that's been said, it feels like maybe a guiding
principle for them to install from day one is we
want to be ultra aggressive and physical on the defensive end.
Speaker 2: Is that what the identity.
Speaker 1: You're expecting them to try to assume or is there
anything else that you've gleaned from his high or so far?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think more than that, I'm interested in seeing
how kind of they implement an offense. I know we're
going to get to Nick Claxton, but Jordi seems to
be a big proponent of side to side ball movement, handoffs,
you know, like side pick and roll into action around
the perimeter, lots of like short passes that lead into
other actions I'm interested to see how he is as
an offensive coach because the Sacramento offense that we've covered
and written about and like really enjoyed watching these past
few years, he's purported to have been a big, big
part of that, and it seemed like for a while
Jordy was next up to get a coaching gig. So
it seems to me before he's even coached a game,
I'm excited about the higher and I think we'll learn
more about his offensive kind of philosophy than defense, at
least early on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they have like when you're looking at the
person on this roster with which they have to implement,
like the actual system, that's it makes it more fascinating
to see what they're gonna do because there's not just
a high level of creation on this team, Like there's
Cam Thomas and then there's like, all right, are we
getting into the Dennis Shrewder? Like are we including Nick
Claxton and Cam Johnson. So it's like you start to
trickle down from there and it gets I'm just very
curious to see and they don't have a like even
Ben Simmons, if he's healthy and at his peak, is
not a conventional floor general, and so there's just a
lot of sort of oddities up and down this roster
right now.
Speaker 3: I think, like you mentioned covering the Nets in the
in the Bear Kenny Atkinson years before they made the
playoffs in twenty nineteen, Atkinson seemed to like emerge as
a really good offensive coach because even though those teams
were bad, you saw their shot profile and like they're
expected points per possession on cleaning the glass and stuff
like that. So even when those teams did not have
a lot of offensive talent, they were able to generate
like these ideal shots, you know, corner threes, ram attempts,
stuff like that. So I think, like Nets fans already
have like a baseline for Jordi and expectations within the
last ten years.
Speaker 1: So, because I monopolize so much of what we talk
about on this podcast, I want to throw it to
you first, what is the single biggest storyline for this
team that you're gonna be monitoring in to and kind
of throughout this next year.
Speaker 3: I'll give you one general one, which is just can
we like maintain some good vibes and like positivity over
a twelve month stretch? We do we think that's impossible,
or do we think whatever ancient burial ground slash affordable
housing neighborhood Barkley Center was built on top of has
made that an impossibility for this franchise. So that's number one.
Speaker 1: The first year of the rebuild is kind of like
a honeymoon period normally.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they don't have.
Speaker 1: I think what also would help is they don't I'm
thinking on the roster right now, like they don't have
anyone that's gonna become a malecontent because they're so bad
like Cam Johnson DFS aren't.
Speaker 2: Those types of dudes.
Speaker 1: Ben Simmons doesn't have the cache anymore for you to
care if that's like where he ends up. So I
would think that like this might be I feel like
this is gonna be the year of the vibes in Brooklyn.
Speaker 2: Like I feel like the vibes will be good, even
though the winds will be sparse.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's gonna be like a challenge for guys
like Camp Thomas and Nick Klaxton to like be like okay,
like year four, year five, Like you guys are like
leaders now, you know, like the vets, you've been here
for a while. We need you to kind of implement
this culture under a new coach. So I think it's
gonna be cool to see those guys try to buy
into that role. I mean, Cam Johnson and Dorian will
talk about it, but they're not here for the long
haul in all likelihood. And then I said that was
kind of general. Specifically, the Thomas contract extension talks are well,
I guess not extension, but what they're gonna do with
him as his contract expires is going to become a
big story for this team. Like for a third year player.
Last year, we heard absolutely nothing about a potential extension,
Like they didn't talk at the end of last year,
they didn't talk in the summer. You know, they still
have a couple more months to get it done, but
it seems like both sides like, no, they're going to
wait until the end of next season to negotiate. So
I would say specifically, that is what is going to
emerge as a storyline for this team, barring a miraculous
play in run.
Speaker 2: He is interesting.
Speaker 1: He is like a super polarizing player among people who
follow the NBA too, And so when you look at
last season with how high usage he was, let's start here,
what stood out in a good way or surprised you
or just most impressed you about how he was able
to grow his game or what.
Speaker 2: He did well.
Speaker 3: I think, for one, the off the catch three point
shooting like you really saw him kind of embrace that
a little bit more and make forty three percent of
his catch and shoot threes and at the same time
start to map the floor as like a ball handler.
He wasn't doing anything crazy with the playmaking the passing,
but you can just see, like in the NBA, you
have this high pick and roll offense that so many
teams run at least a little and the reads are
pretty diagramed. It's like, Okay, you can only help from
so many places, and if the low man helps, this
corner is going to be open. And if he's in
between the roller and whatever and the pass to the
other wing, Cam kind of showed that when he's running
high pick and roll against these different coverages, he knows
where the weak points in the defense are, which, if
nothing else, is at least the baseline, like the first
level of playmaking and passing reads you need to get
to if you're going to handle the ball as much
as he did. Post a near thirty percent usage rate,
so that those two things were really you know, positive
for me. And also like it's hard to take that
many shots a game in the NBA and create space
on a lot of them and score semi efficiently like
the load. We we kind of you know, would love
to see him be more efficient and the trade off
with the volume, But the guys still getting twenty looks
at the rim of game, you know, twenty looks at
the basket of game. That's not something that every player
in the NBA can do, even if they would like
to try.
Speaker 1: No, And I mean, I think a shot selection could
still better, but you mentioned there was the catch and
shoot three up tick. I think it was like over
thirty nine percent on those last year, Like the percentage
was high, and if his overall percentage, like i'd like
to see the pull ups fall at a higher rate.
But if he's gonna be a thirty six percent from
three on six attempts per game, like for someone who's
handling the ball so much, I think that's fine. And
I do agree with you with the passing where I
think specifically in some of the later games I saw
from him, defenses felt like they were overreacting to him
more because he was a little bit less predictable in
the lane, and like you said, it was nothing too complex,
but like he was able to like keep the ball
moving and find guys who were actually open as a
result not risotto result of those like defensive rotations or collapses.
And I still think I don't know where you land on,
like where are you gonna be monitoring most closely if
he's gonna continue to develop. But I think that's still
part of his game that I would like to see
him expand more. I just don't know for me if
he's capable of it or am I just more morbidly
drawn to it because I know he's gonna have the
ball a ton again this year, given how the team
is built, I.
Speaker 3: Think that it's tough to like check in with him
at the start of the season and check in with
him at the end, because there were so many times
last year the nets got down by twelve or fifteen
and yet another depressing game and you could see Cam
just be like, all right, fuck this, like time to pull,
time to time to cook, step back eighteen footer here,
you know, one legged twelve footer here, And it's a
switch that you can see, and so part of his
development is going to be maintaining I'm still gonna get
good looks for myself and my teammates at no matter
what this like, no matter what's going on, I agree
with you, Like he's not a Kevin Durant mid range shooter.
Nobody is. A lot of these mid range shots need
to be I need to get to the rim. I
need to take step back threes. And the thing about
him is like you know, you've you've watched him that
first step combined with like kind of just how naturally
big he is and the chest and shoulders when he
gets to the rim, it looks impressive, and you just
you want him to I guess build on that mindset.
I think that is going to be the key for me,
Like get to the rim first, get to the rim first,
and use the mid range as more of a counter
as a bailout option. You know, if that, if we
start seeing more of that from camp Thomas, then I'll
be I'll be fully in. I've been, I've been, I was,
I was a Camp Thomas skeptic. You can ask any
NETS fan on Twitter. I like, for a while, they
don't really love my Camp Thomas opinions. But I got
my foot in the door. You know, if he does that,
I'll I'll fully open it. I'll join everybody on Camp
Thomas Island.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I've progressed to the point and my
co host and I Grant have had not super impassionate
debates about this. But I think he still views Cam
Thomas as that's going to be someone who is this
microwave off the bench score long term, and I think
what he showed last year, his ceiling is certainly higher
than that to me. And just like even the thing,
even if you don't even if you're not high on
him as a passer, if you and as a decision maker,
if you're gonna have as high of a usage rate
as he did last year and.
Speaker 2: He finished at thirty point five, I'm looking at it
right now now.
Speaker 1: But like your turnover rate is still eight and a half,
Like there's value in Okay, you're not taking the best shots,
but you're also just not junking away all these possessions,
and so like, I really do believe there's something there.
I honestly don't know what his ceiling is, but if
we would have had the same conversation last year with
what I would have said, I think you can say
if you don't know what a ceiling is, that's probably
a compliment relative to what our thoughts were on him,
you know, a year year and a half ago.
Speaker 3: The one thing I would say about Cam Thomas, which
goes against I think the feelings of a lot of
Nets fans, is that I don't think this environment where
he just has the ball in his hands a ton
and has free range when he's on the court to
kind of do whatever because the Nets our sap for
offensive creation. I don't really know if that's what I'd
love for him as a player, for his development. It
feels like it almost kind of allows him to maybe
lean into some habits he needs to eradicate from his game,
like almost the freedom can be a little bit too much,
and hopefully Jordian can implement some structure for him, some actions,
like some habits that he wants Cam to nail down.
I would love to see whatever that might be this
year Jordie's you know, as you might imagine.
Speaker 1: Maybe like a tome isn't as simple as just like
get everybody or mostly everybody the license to grab and
go off of rebound, so that it forces Cam Thomas
like off the ball a little bit more going to
be in transition or semi transition, like you have Trendon
Watford on this team, Like just give that guy the
license to go.
Speaker 3: You should the Philly game last year when Cam Thomas
had forty but he hit like six catch and shoot
threes and then like a couple like catch, pump, fake,
go to the rim. It's like, whoa, you know this
guy is like an off the ball threat. If he's
shooting like this off the catch and shoot and his
first step is that quick and like he can kind
of cover a lot of ground. I mean, we see
him cover a lot of ground when he steps back
and creates all that space from his defender. It's like,
this guy could be a legit off the ball option.
If some of that zero point five decision making is
there a little bit To your point, I think part
of that and I think we will see it is like, yes,
I expect them to play fast this season.
Speaker 1: This I guess it kind of dovetails with this discussion.
But the last time the Nets are rebuilding, it was
different because they didn't really they didn't. It wasn't they
didn't really, they didn't have control of their imminent first
round picks, and so they tried a bunch of shit,
And it feels like they're headed down that direction in general.
Now when you look at the roster they took, they
take the key on Johnson flyer, they pick up Zayia
Williams from for Memphis. Of course, that's an asset play.
I know that with the seconds they get for it,
do you expect something similar to the extent of We're
going to see a bunch of mid season turnover here.
And I think it dovetails nicely with the Cam Thomas
discussion because that the front office is m O at
that time is if they discovered someone like Okay, they
still weren't married to them, but it was different, but
they were married to nothing and no one who really
came to not even Brook Lopez at the time. It's like,
so Dorian Phiney Smith, Dennis Shuder, cam Johnson get mentioned
in trade rumors, but because it's also a situation where
they'd be willing to move off off of cam Thomas
if the offers right, because they don't necessarily want a
bankroll his next cut, Like what level of try shit
or turnover. Would you expect mid season from this organization
given the direction in which it's headed.
Speaker 3: Number one, I'm disappointed you didn't even mention Killian Hayes,
who training camp contract not guaranteed to make the roster.
But in terms of trying stuff, Killian Hayes might be
the ultimate he got.
Speaker 1: Look, Lucas, he got cut by the French national team,
like we need to. I want to know what the
net saw on him. I still have like, defensively sure
just with that, except do you remember that stretching Detroit?
It was like two seasons ago. He was like lights
out for a month and a half from mid range
or whatever it was. So maybe he gets that. But yes,
I did forget that Killian Hayes was currently a member.
Speaker 2: Of this team.
Speaker 3: Silver medalist French national team, he was on it.
Speaker 2: I thought he got the Well, no, I think it's cut.
Speaker 3: Yeah, don't slander the French. Well that's not the hill
to die on. I guess anyway, Yes, there's gonna be there.
I think there is a similar mindset going into this.
I think it helps that you have this same man
in charge and Sean Marks. He's willing to try stuff.
He's willing to take flyers. He's mentioned that as something
he's excited to do and will do in his press
conferences he's given since the Mikhale Bridges trade. And I
think with Cam Thomas there is a level of respect
for him in the organization that may not be apparent
when you hear, oh, why isn't he playing his first
couple of years? Like they must not like him? Sean
Marks and the front office has said repeatedly like they
like Cam Thomas, they like what he brings. I think
they respect him the way they respect Nick Claxton for
willing to be around for this rebuild, to take on
a larger role for the franchise. I would be shocked
if they trade him this year. I would not be
shocked if he is not signed to a long term
deal next offseason. So view that as turnover then, Yes,
the other guys, specifically Cam Johnson, Dorrian Finney Smith, I
would be very surprised if they're on the roster after
the trade deadline. I'd be pretty surprised if they're on
the roster during real games. To be honest, Wow, I might.
I mean, you know, we could get one of those
early season trades like I think that, like, like, I mean,
this is a funny comparison, but the James Harden trade
that happened like a week or two into the season,
I think we could see maybe that for those guys.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a really interesting notion because because they're like
supporting players. Is there just going to be a team
that came into the season with such high expectations and it's, oh,
like we're out of the gate, we're coming slow, Like
we just need Dorian Finney Smith the idea of a
three and D guy or Cam Johnson, the you know,
three point shooter off movement who.
Speaker 2: Has some ball skills to him. I guess I could
see that.
Speaker 1: We're just so I mean, last season was different because
we had the James Harden trade. Siakam and Annanobi were
traded like pretty far away from the deadline too.
Speaker 2: I'm not used to seeing that much action pre dead line.
Speaker 3: I think we will get some of that. All it
takes is an injury here, an injury there. I mean,
teams know that the Nets don't like want to get
pick value for those guys. I think the Warriors are
a team to watch, to be honest, just because they
you know, the lowry market and sweepstakes they're out of.
They need a couple of wings. I think these talks
will heat up again the rumors that we heard kind
of before the NBA world went on hiatus and everybody
went to their beach resorts in August, as they do.
I think once we get back to the training camp
kind of getting the swing of things, we'll hear it. Overall, Yes,
I expect roster turnover. I don't expect the Nets to
be married to guys like I think Nick Claxton's going
to be here. I don't anticipate them trading him. I
think he's the perfect type of player who you can
develop and keep getting better, but won't accidentally win you
too many games. That being said, it's not because there's
a strict no we're not trading XYZ policy.
Speaker 1: I don't know at this rate, and this is a
good time to talk about Nick Claxton, because I love
Nick Claxton. But at this rate, you know, if the
Pelicans center rotation stays the way it is right now,
like they might end up throwing Brooklyn in offer once
the restriction lists that they're not able to turn down
for Nick Klaxon. There's there's Pelicans fans will not I'll
just say Pelicans fans probably know their team better than
I do, but there's a tendency for them to just
list off like Daniel Tye and leave me seeing Carlo
right like Rokovich, Makovich excuse me, and it's like, right,
you're telling me their names. That doesn't mean that the
center rotation is fine. So but yeah, I would argue
that Nick Claxton is probably the closest this organization comes
to just like, oh, a guy that we have, I
won't call him a cornerstone, but someone we value for
the future is just sort of in place.
Speaker 2: Or do you think that cam Thomas has left him
at all in that?
Speaker 3: I would say, I would say Nick Claxton fits that Bill.
I would also say, I know for a fact Klas
has a lot of fans in that Pelicans organization, and
that's been a half you know, idealize destination for him,
half semi like okay, we've actually thought about it. But
I think klax is here to stay. I think he
is the closest thing they have to like a reliable
cornerstone piece moving forward. He's really good, like he's just
he's really good, and he is not the type to
elevate a bad team into too many wins. It's like
he in a drop defense in your base coverages is
a pretty good defender. It's a very good shop blocker.
Then you add in the switching, and you add all
the kind of different things you can do with him
on defense. It's the sort of thing that gets you like,
is the cherry on top makes a good team great?
And I think that's why maybe he hasn't shined the
way he has since they traded Kevin Durant and Kyrie
Hearing at the deadline two years ago. But like you know,
you look at the Mavericks game from last year they
played in Brooklyn, Luka Doncrish cooking them in the first half.
They come out on the second half, they just put
ing a Claxton on him straight up, and he's far
the best Luca defender on the team. Like freaky, I.
Speaker 1: Still and look, you know, you say, he's maybe not
the type of player to shine on the team that's
not great. Like this was the second consecutive year he
was mentioned in the same breadth as like all.
Speaker 2: Defense guys where it's usually considered it. That's a big deal.
Speaker 1: I think his claim, his claim to like national the
national conscience was still that possession against Damian loading in
crunch time where he's just shutting them down. I think
it was from the left side of the floor at
the time, and he did it like twice or something,
and like the floor mapping that he had on that
entire possion was absurd, and I feel like everyone kind
of understood. Anyone who like Nets fans obviously knew how
good he was, but like that was his I don't
know if I would even call him mainstream right now,
but that was where everyone's like, oh, like Nick Claxton
is like cap slock good. What type of role though?
Because this team I feel like is built to get weird.
Are they going to try out more with him on
the offensive? Nue kind of already loo, But like I
want to see Nick Claxton, like I want them to
get super weird. I don't even want to see Nick
Claxton drives anymore, Like you have that man run pick
and rolls and let's just see what happens.
Speaker 3: I just want to see it. I can they ran
a couple of inverted like kind of like like pitchback,
like Dennis Smith Junior would like give it to him
like thirty five feet out and set like a little
fake brush screen and Claxon would drive. I think we're there.
Like the let's say, the mainstream quote unquote thing about
Nick Claxon is that like, oh, this guy is driving
ability on offense. Played point guard for an awful Georgia
team when he was there, is in college, so maybe
you know he's not gonna drag you to a league
a league average offense as that guy.
Speaker 1: Imagine though they just like they run him out as
a primary playmaker. Then that's are like sixteenth in points
per possession or something like that.
Speaker 3: You have to maxim. I mean, hey, is their max
and Bam no?
Speaker 2: Oh wow, No, No.
Speaker 3: I like Bam. Listen. My thing was always when I
was like, you can pay Nick Claxon twenty two million,
twenty five million a year and it's fine last year,
My argument was like, Okay, how much worse is he
really than Bam? That was always my argument, if you
could I'm not saying you don't max Bam, but I'm
saying in a world where Bam out of Buyo is
a MAX player, go watch those matchups and tell me
you should only be paying Nick Claxton half that.
Speaker 1: I still think BAM's a lot more dynamic on the
offensive end, and like you haven't had the chance to
see I think BAM might be the best well because
we haven't seen Wemby in there yet, like the single
best or most valuable playoff defender. Potentially, it's like Nick
Claxton's like we need to see Nick Claxton in an
extensive run in that setting. But if more of the
stories Nick Claxton is really good, I'm on board with you.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, No, that sound sounds like Bam slander and
it's not the thing with Nick last year is he'd
have these like runs where he would the in Okay,
see like bullied Chet Holmgren in Memphis, bully Jaron Jackson Junior.
I wouldn't say bullied Bam in Miami, but like probably
outplayed him slightly, and then they came back to Brooklyn
and like he got worked by Trey Jamison and like
had a bunch of bad fouls And it is just
a matter of consistency last year. But the point is
he's very good and you will see him as more
of like the dribble handoff hub guy. This is actually
like the nerdiest thing about the Nuts this year. This
is the most interesting thing because when you have these
dho like hub bigs, it's like, Okay, they're really They
can make the bounce pass and they can hit the
back door cuts. But like Demonte Sabonis going one on
one to get a clutch time bucket in the playoffs, eh,
right for it all for an all NBA guy, Jordy
is now doing this with Nick. He's building from the reverse.
It's like you have this guy that can get to
the that can fake a dribble handoff and get to
the rim from the three point line in one dribble
and dunk on somebody. And so now you're building out
the other part of that, which is you actually need
to be able to make quick decisions. I'm not saying
it's gonna work. I'm not saying like Nick's gonna be
a great playmaker passer overnight, but it's definitely an intriguing
thing to watch. Like, no matter how bad the Nets
are this.
Speaker 1: Year, you had a terrific video essay on Noah Clowney,
who has like an increased role towards the end of
last season. I see it defensively, like even when he's
making mistakes, like you could just see it with him.
But what are you sort of well, I guess one,
I'm assuming his role will be pretty big this year,
and too, like what do you mind? What areas of
development are you gonna be monitoring most closely for him?
Speaker 3: I want to see if the his bot Like I
just want to see him finish more two pointers at
the rim, like he's was not a good finisher in
the lane in the in the G League and the
NBA last year and at Summer League even this year,
where he looks a little bigger, it's like you saw
more of the okay hang in the air through contact finish.
That's going to be really important for him as an
offensive guy, because no matter what your role is on defense,
you can't be six ten, six eleven and shooting like fifty,
like forty something fifty, low fifties on twos Like that
just can't happen. And then secondly, like is he gonna
actually shoot around league average from three on decent attempts?
Like is he gonna be a legit big wing type
of guy? Like the guy he kind of reminds me
of ideally on offense is actually Santi al Dama just
like a like.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you know this, I will cape
until the end of time for Santi Aldama.
Speaker 2: I know, I know you do the right audience.
Speaker 3: I was happy to say that comparison. I think Santy's
like a little more flexible on offense and his drives
and stuff, and probably a better shooter at this point.
But when I watch Noah at like six ' ten
with these long arms, spot up in the corner and
can kind of slither to the rim on some of
these drives, it's like I see it, like I'm not
sure he's a big big I think he's like a
big wing that can play some of the five, but
like his defense really shines when he's on the perimeter,
like like blocking guys in isolation, like a version of
Nick Claxton in a It's an easy comparison.
Speaker 1: So when you mentioned him like getting to the basket more,
doing a better job finishing on twos, a lot of
that feels like it'll be predicated on them getting him
the ball on the right spots rather than him doing
what we know Nick Klaxton can do.
Speaker 2: If like he's gonna go into drives.
Speaker 1: Is that kind of then not the theory, but the
importance of Dennis Shruter on this team is like someone
who's more established and can then at least maybe get
him the ball in the spots that would translate to
those higher efficiency twos because after him, it's like you
can't count on Ben Simmons and he's not necessarily a
half court type of the ideal half court playmaker anyway,
Is that one like why Dennis Shruter might be sneaky
important to this team? And then two, is that like
a level of concern that could Stymy Clowney's offensive development.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think Shrewder To answer the first part of that,
Shrewder is definitely an important part of this team. I
think he's a less likely candidate to get traded earlier,
like as early as the Cam Johnson Dorian Finney Smith guys.
He's also a guy that's spoken about the importance of
being with his family playing on all these different teams
in different years looking for stability, said he's liked Brooklyn
so far. I think they're okay with the idea of
like having Dennis around for at least this year and
his contract and then seeing what's up. But Dennis, he's
by far the best I think, pick and roll decision maker,
passer driver on this team, and he will get guys
in their roles like he will get Jalen Wilson catch
and shoot, close out attack opportunities. He will get Noah
Clowney the opportunity to like finish through someone in the lane,
which he needs to do. So I think you're completely
right on Dennis Shrewder's role on this team.
Speaker 1: Do you think I saw it at least a couple
of times that Clowney and Claxton were playing together. Do
you think that becomes more of a staple setup this year?
Speaker 3: I think Dayron Sharp makes that equation a little more
interesting because you have to play Dayron Sharp this year.
Not only was he pretty good last year, but like
he's going into a contract year, he's worked his ass
off like strong, Yeah, strong. We could see Clowney and
Sharp as well, but I think was Sharp there. I
think you're gonna see Clowney as the four, and I
think you will see Clowney in Claxton minutes. It is
an absurd amount of length and ground coverage on the
perimeter and in a sense almost reminds you of me
of like the New York Liberty who have John Qwell
Jones and Brianna Stewart, two ridiculous shot blockers, and so
you can play an aggressive coverage on the perimeter right
and you have the other one back at the rim.
And I mean we saw there was a game I
think against the Raptors late in the season where they
combined for eleven blocks. I think Clowney had seven, Nick
had four, And that is that's the appeal. And no
matter what role Clowney's playing on offense, whether another big
is next to him on the floor or not, he's
still gonna have to work on the same stuff, you
know what I mean. So I think I don't think
the offensive side is like an impediment to doing that.
Speaker 2: Uh, you one had me.
Speaker 1: I didn't even if I didn't even hear anything after
you said you had me at John Quell Jones on that.
But also if he's gonna I they're gonna use Clowny
like that, it does feel like the three point volume
efficiency is gonna be pretty important then for him, if
they're just gonna kind of treat him as that they
Facto four a lot of the time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we'll see both. It's like in Long
Island he was the full time five, but they would
also play five out where he was in the corner.
And yes, I was watching Long Island. That's basketball last year.
Speaker 2: You are sick though.
Speaker 1: Anyone who can has read your coverage or listen to
your coverage, you are a sicko. And I mean that.
Speaker 3: It's a compliment, Thank you very much. It's all I
strive to be. And if I shouldn't have mentioned john
Quell Jones because we could do, I could talk about
her for like two and a half hours. Might be
the coolest basketball player alive anyway, no clowney. Yes, the
three point shot making is obviously important for his long
term you know growth, even going back to Alibama. Though
we don't have like a huge sample size of him
as a shooter, all we know is that he seems
pretty confident in taking them no matter what level he's
played at. So I think more it's just like the
decision making, you know, getting him comfortable. Are you taking
the shot when it's open? Are you still attacking these closeouts?
Because that's what's really intriguing, Like the way he can move,
you know, like, just as a thought exercise, if Nick
Claxton never got that shoulder that torn laboram surgery and
was still able to like get up fairly decent looking
three pointers, and you had Nick Claxton in the corner
with his athleticism, you'd want to see him like shot
fake and get to the rim. And that's kind of
like where I'm at with Noah Clowney.
Speaker 1: I've become more intrigued by John Wilson based off what
we saw from him towards the end of last season.
I do like sometimes if he's trying to do things
on the ball, it's happening in slow motion, and if
you don't have a ton of space, I don't know
how valuable that is.
Speaker 2: But the rest of his game.
Speaker 1: Just feels like super plug and play. What is the
it's another two Well they're basic, but like, what is
the area of development that you're just going to be
most focused on that we should all watch for with him?
And then how big of a role does he get?
Where is it going to be someone who is playing
a good amount right away or is this like, well,
let's revisit it. His minutes will be kind of all
over the place. Then maybe later in the season they
ratchet them up.
Speaker 3: I think Jordi will go through the same thing that
Jacques Vaughn and Kevin Ali did last year, where of
all the young guys and Jalen Wilson is not that young,
but of all the inexperienced guys, oh, let me play
Wilson because I at least know he's going to be
in the right spots all the time, and he's going
to like fly in for an offensive rebound and a putback,
or he's gonna come up with like a hustle play
that you know you don't expect him to. I think
that's like the role the floor for him getting on
the floor, like that's what's going to get him there.
And then the pathway to being like a good real
NBA role player is what you mentioned in our outline. Clearly,
you know ball, you know the nets, you know this
awful team. Can he hang with the big power wings
on defense? He's not like a great vertical or lateral athlete.
He's very strong, but he's not like, you know, covering
ground like a Dorian Finney Smith. Is he still returning
value guarding guys that are his size but probably have
an athletic advantage on him, you know that. That's what
I really want to see from him this year. Like
we talk about three and D role player or whatever. Yeah,
that's probably his future. But like is he just playing
defense just to play defense or is he like an
actually good defender. That's what I want to find out
this year.
Speaker 2: What is your concern level on Dreek Whitehead at the moment?
Speaker 3: Hi unfortunately, Ah, Okay, I'm gonna take it like he's,
first of all, he's like the nicest guy in the NBA,
which I just it's it's I want to root for
him so bad, and I do, and I believe him
when he says this is the healthiest I felt since
like I was in high school, and I'm just getting there.
You know, it's going to take a while. He tweeted
after Summer League, like I haven't even worked on lateral
explosiveness and like that type of bursty athleticism yet. And
I'm like nice, like he'll get it back whatever, But like.
Speaker 1: It's also kind of concerning that he still hasn't worked,
Like hasn't it been Like, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: When was his last procedure. I don't know that off.
Speaker 3: Cuff early February, they got shin splints. I'm like, I
don't know what that means. Maybe you ask his trainer,
and his trainer disagree, you know who knows. But for
his sake, I hope it's true because it's not like
he's like an infallible prospect. Outside of that, it's not
like he's, respectfully Michael Jordan with bad lower legs. He
still has a lot of stuff to work on, Like
the handle's not very tight. The decision making like needs
to get better. Even if his legs were you know,
even if he was like a Michael Jordan.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just the stuff I I saw from him
in Summer League where it was you know, I mentioned
slow motion before with Jalen Wilson on the balls, Like
am I watching Kyle Anderson right now, like he's in
the open floor and I felt bad.
Speaker 2: I don't mean to make a joke about it.
Speaker 1: He was considered as just like this sort of you know,
not even boom or bust, Like they took a swing
on him, and it's like to not even like see.
Speaker 2: That play out.
Speaker 1: Like I guess if he's healthy enough, would you expect
him to give him a shot this year is it
looked like just based off what we've seen and where
he's even saying his body might be at, they're gonna
have to continue the slow.
Speaker 2: And steady and slow and super gradual approach.
Speaker 3: I'm not I'm not a doctor. I don't like you
all that stuff. I don't know. I can't predict, but
like right now, it's not good the athleticism level. And
this was a guy that was like part of his cell.
Like he wasn't the craziest vertical athlete. It was more
of like stop and start space creation, but like he
was dunking on people in high school, like taking off
from the dotted line. I can't even fathom him doing
attempting that right now. So I think we'll see a
lot of him in Long Island where he'll have free reign,
you know, He'll he'll be the focus of the rotation,
and then depending on how things go there, we could
see him in Brooklyn, I think in the second half
of the year. But for him right now, it's all
about just how does he look, how is he moving?
You know, it was pretty unfortunate during Summer League that
it also coincided with like a ridiculously cold stretch shooting
the ball. So he just looked like not even like
a Summer League quality player. But I think my concern
level is I just don't know if concern is the
right word, because I don't know what it's supposed to
look like. I just I just don't I'm not considering
to Reek Whitehead as this is gonna sound harsh as
an NBA player until he looks different athletically.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and look, if anyone just wants to hold that
hope for what you know he could have been. I
went on Duke podcast called this was like when they
that's first Draft and then the Devil's Den podcast.
Speaker 2: Those are good peeps. People should go check him out.
Speaker 1: And they had me go check out like some Drek
white had, like vintage Drek Whitehead stuff, and like that
guy looked like he was gonna be I hesitate to
use the word dominant, but he looks special.
Speaker 3: I mean, he was the best player in high school
in the whole country. You know, It's like, I don't
think that's a hot take from you, Like I hear
what you're saying.
Speaker 1: You know, another player on this team who I am
kind of fascinated by is Trenton Watford, Uh, what type
of role is he gonna have? And then what are
we like what should we be watching for like Kenny
foul Less, Like what's up with the three point volume?
Speaker 2: For him? How much is he handling the ball or
getting up the floor with it?
Speaker 1: Like what should we if we're just tagling that s observers, Like,
what should we be watching assuming Trenton Watford is going
to play a bunch? If he's not gonna play a bunch,
I will be starting a petition immediately after we wrap.
Speaker 3: Up here threes and turnovers, because I asked Jacquevon last year,
I'm like, this guy can clearly play, you know, like
this talent in this body frame of his, but they
kind of view him as like this primary ball handler
type of guy, and it's hard to have one of
those that turns it over a lot and doesn't really
take threes. And I tweeted that last year and then
he quote tweeted me with a bunch of laughing emojis, which,
you know, I thought I was being pretty reasonable, but
I guess you all you gotta it's got to happen
to you sooner or later. So I hope that doesn't
happen again. I hope he doesn't quote tweet something I
say and I.
Speaker 2: Always just say something nice. Maybe he'll give he comes
up emoji next time? Who does?
Speaker 3: Maybe I will. You know, Christian Watford, his older brother
likes every single tweet I make about Trenton Watford. So
the I'm one for two.
Speaker 1: I almost respect that he quote tweeted you, even if
what you said seemed perfectly fair, because I can't take
I get inundated with criticism, criticism. I'm like, sometimes I'll
stop and think, like, how do these NBA players or
people with actual influence handle what is probably a different
level like everyone's. You're maybe you were being fair and
what you said was pretty innocuous, but like it has
to be exhausting. I get exhausted by it. On a
much smaller scale, it has to be exhausting. And I'm sure,
I mean, Trendon Waffer is not getting it on like
the Luka Dacic scale. Like it has to be exhausting,
like if you were to search your name or something
like to have all this shit come up. And I
almost respect the hustle of It's Kevin Durant esque. And
you know, what I'm gonna respond in some way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I did respect it, and I saw him
at summer League and like obviously didn't mention it, but
like it was all good. And it sounds like the
coach staff's telling him the same thing. So you know,
I think that's I've been vindicated there. The other thing, yes,
threes three. In terms of importance, I would say turnovers, like,
gotta limit those if you're gonna be this big ball
handler type of guy. Uh, fouls to keep him on
the court. The threes, it's like he's shooting forty percent
over the last two years on like one point two.
It's like one and a half two attempts per thirty
six minutes. I'm like, dude, get them up. You know,
if you weren't making him, it'd be a little different,
but like, get them up. And then also, the passing
ability is very flashy or it's in flashes right now.
It's like, oh that's a highlight look Oh like wow, dime,
But on a consistent basis, like he miss like you
don't see him create a ton of high value reads
for other people. Like he really leans on that eight
to ten foot push shot floater when he gets in
the lane, and I really like to see him get
two feet in the lane instead of taking those shots,
kick it out for three or like hit a dump
down pass. So I think I see what all the
trend and Watford believers see. This dude is big, fluid
and talented for real, Like there's something here. But those
like I do need we do need him to execute
in a few more key areas to really be deserving of. Like, hey,
this guy's good.
Speaker 1: Now do you have any theory of what like he's
best suited to do on defense? Is it just like
find the guy with the most size. He's going to
spend time off the ball, do most of his work
off the ball, Like that's what he should be guarding.
Because I don't have like a great feel for what
Trendon Watford is or could be defensively.
Speaker 3: Neither do I. I think you want him around them.
You want him in a position to get defensive rebounds
and go like so you want him, I guess on
on in the corners guardian guys that are gonna hang
around the rim a little more. He doesn't have the
greatest foot speed, but he has like active hands. I
don't know, it's tough. You probably just want him guarding
someone like sized and seeing if he can use his
strength to get stops without you know, fouling as he
as he does. That's probably I would if I were
to guess, like a role, a skill he's gonna be
working on this season.
Speaker 2: You kind of already alluded to this a little bit.
Speaker 1: But so if they're gonna play clowney a bunch in
tandem with other bigs, it feels like Dayron Sharp will
have an actual role. It's like, what should we be
watching for with him this season in terms of what
they need him to do most.
Speaker 3: So last year was about like WHOA, this guy's an
NBA athlete. Now, like he he's vertical, he gets off
the ground quick. He's finishing way more of his two
pointers because of that, and he's like getting real block
shots on defense. I think now it's just continuing to
be like solid and drop coverage, you know, good positioning,
not committing silly fouls. I would like to see a
little bit more testing him on the perimeter, Like he
has these flashes where he's covering a lot of ground
and he might be a guy that benefits from this.
Jordi Fernandez system, because if you remember, as a prospect
out of UNC, a thing with him was like WHOA,
Like he makes a lot of nice passes, he reads
the floor really quick, and in the first couple of
years in the league it was like he had this
cool random assortment of skills, but they didn't really like stack,
so it was like, Okay, it's cool that he can
like make a short role read, but he also can't
score at the rim efficiently so it doesn't really matter.
And like, oh, it's cool that he's like a beast
offensive rebounder, but again like the scoring, and it's nice
that he gets like these random deflections and quick thinking
on defense, but his like technique and drop coverage is bad.
So as he's worked to fix all of his weaknesses,
you have maybe now like a really strong player with
fun skills. So I would say the defense is the baseline,
Like can he keep working on what he's shown and
on offense you might get a sneaky like this guy
can really pass sort of situation here in year.
Speaker 1: Four and like sort of in what way, Like we're
talking like short roll stuff with him, just a.
Speaker 3: Quick processor, like like the Nets didn't have a lot
of guys that brought to the ball, so we didn't
see him in the short role a ton last year,
but like he'd get an offensive rebound and like throw
like a Larry Bird esque like tip pass to a
guy underneath. If you're listening, if you can't see me,
I used heavy air quotes on the Larry.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, so we got Nick Claxton's better
than Bam.
Speaker 2: Dayron sharp is basically Larry Bird. That's aggregators. Throw it
in there.
Speaker 3: Tag that Dale exactly, then you can tag me. But
like he took like the ball out on baseline out
of bounds last year and like threw a dive like
you see it in like kind of weird spots. So
I'm wondering if we see that like streamlined into a
role Like I saw that tweet the other day from
somebody like h like looking for the next bigs who
can actually pass the ball. I think Dayron could be
one of those guys, Like for real, Uh, that's wow.
Speaker 1: That's something I probably wouldn't have been thinking of watching
it now, Like do they have do you think the
personnel to like kind of use him in that way
where the thing is gonna be open enough to get
that stuff for him.
Speaker 3: That's the thing. It's like we didn't really see him
in the short role last year because you rarely saw
anybody ever bring two to the ball, like against Cam
Thomas until really late in the season, or like you're
not really trapping Dennis shrewder a Ton so that's yeah,
or Mchalebridge last year or ever.
Speaker 1: Two players I'm not allowed to offer opinions on anymore
because I was just woefully, egregiously high on them. Keon
Johnson and Zaier Williams. Who intrigues you more for this team?
Who do you think is do you think will make
a bigger impact? Do you think the nets are more
intrigued by it? Anywhere you want to take that, I'm
not allowed to offer any pushback on it, So do
whatever you want.
Speaker 3: Well, you're gonna hate this sentence. Then you're gonna be like,
it's gonna feel like you have tape over your mouth.
The thing about Keon this summer is that he was
good at all the stuff he was bad at. So
like when he got into the lane, he slowed down,
he like saw the court, He made nice passes. He
wasn't going one hundred percent all the time. Which as
a Kean Johnson believer, it's like, yeah, this guy's super athletic,
but like he needs to slow down and make the
correct decisions. So to watch him be good at that
in Summer League, I'm not surprised that they offered him
a real contract. You want to you want to say
anything here, No, Nope.
Speaker 1: My egregious take was, if you're interested, I was. I
thought the nick where the pick they gave up that
became Keon Johnson. I thought they were gonna come to
like massively regret at the time, was my take.
Speaker 3: If that comes true, then we really have a story here. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I was just and Keith Parrish of the Grit
and Grind podcast and also Fast Break Breakfast Talk to
Me was telling me for two years that I was
just way too high on Zaire Williams.
Speaker 2: And then it's like, after.
Speaker 1: Another year of watching him take like the most securitiest
route possible with the ball in his hands, I'm latching
onto things like, well, he's like kind of moving more
decisively when he's popping out to the perimeter, So I
want to hold out hopeooks. I feel like he looks
like someone who should be really good but I I
just can't offer like real opinions on those or he
can't trust them at least.
Speaker 3: Didn't he have a national TV game last year where
he went crazy like on TNT. Didn't it wasn't Didn't
he have a career high? I think he did. I'll
look it up.
Speaker 1: There was also that stretch where he like padded his
three point totals in two games versus the Dicks. It's
like he had this absurd volume in those two games
and it brought his three point percentage up. I think,
if if you you're asking me personally, maybe I don't.
I haven't seen enough of Keon Johnson, like from Summer League.
I probably would hold out hope more for Zaier Williams,
but that's probably because I remained bullish on him for
like even in the face of just all this evidence
of people tell me like no, I'm like, well, hey,
look he finally started grabbing some extra rebounds. I'm just
I'm latching onto straws.
Speaker 3: At this point. Yeah, I think I definitely need to
get a little more acquainted with Zaire Williams and like
see him in a new context and whatever. I I
They're both I know Keon Johnson is twenty two. I
think Zayer Williams if he's not. If he's not twenty two,
he's Yeah, he's twenty two, about to turn twenty three.
So I think this is probably a year for him,
as it is for Keon, like a make or break
year in terms of like what his NBA future is
going to be, just like a big inflection point for him.
I would say, actually, answering the question this time, who
I'm more intrigued by probably.
Speaker 2: Probably I think the physical tools.
Speaker 1: I think it probably makes that's probably the rational answer.
Speaker 3: You Yeah, you bet on the like the guy who's
clearly an NBA level athlete just probably has more pathways
to like winning on the margins, creating minutes for himself,
and then like expanding on that, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Uh So I.
Speaker 3: Would say him, I don't think it's super cut and dry,
and I if my answer changed in like two months
three months of play, they would not be surprising at all.
Speaker 1: If Ben Simmons is healthy, oh what is how are
you deploying him with this team? I think a lot
of people and probably including myself, view him as his
most valuable thing that he brings to the nets. Is
if they're willing to take on bad money, his expiring
contract might be attractive to certain teams. That's that's where
I'm at on the Ben Simmons experience, until he proves
otherwise inside a crowded gym, none of the empty gym stuff.
Speaker 3: Hmm damn, Okay, that changes things. Yeah, there's just they
it's not worth it for the Nets to get off
his contract. This is kind of what we've been saying
for like two years now, like yeah, you dump him,
attach a pick whatever, but like he's not that his
contract is not the difference last year between the Nets
being like a bad, mediocre team and like a really
good team. So you maybe he's like, you know, you
get off some salary whatever. I think, But I think
at this point it's written in stone that maybe not stone,
but written in I guess clay. If that's more malleable
that he's gonna ride out the season. He's not gonna
make the difference barring something miraculous between twenty and thirty
five wins and then his money, then he's off the books.
Then he expires. Yeah, like you could trade him and
probably forfeit. If not a first then a few seconds but.
Speaker 1: I was even thinking, what about the opposite route, like
you had mentioned, let's just take the Warriors a team
to watch, like if you can take back I know
you mentioned they might have cap space plans next summer,
So if that's your plan, then no, but there might
be teams that are looking to get off some money
and you're the team that's getting back.
Speaker 2: Picks just because it is expiring.
Speaker 1: I if then that should absolutely not be including anything
to get off of Ben Simmons.
Speaker 2: Yeah, data, that should not happen.
Speaker 3: I think I think that some of the cap space,
I don't think they're in a soup. I don't think
they really want to take back a lot of long
term money. Maybe if it's maybe, if it's clear the
way things are going in a few months, okay, we'll
take somebody that expires next the season after this, so
they expire in the summer of twenty six. I could
see that. But really, I'm just not like, we're gonna
have to wait to see as the market like gets,
you know, crystallizes a little before the deadline. I think
right now, the if not overwhelming, then very high odds
are that they just ride out the season with him
his contract expires and it's a dissatisfying but fitting end
to the Ben Simmons experience in Brooklyn.
Speaker 2: Is he like, do they anticipate him being healthy this year?
Speaker 1: And if you mentioned they were like close to bottom
five and average offensive possession time last year, if their
plan is to play fast, and I hope it is,
like a healthy Ben Simmons still has just utility even
if you don't trust him to get all the way
to the basket. It's just like in transition, as that
ball mover has size, So like I would be all
for like healthy Ben Simmons just spritting up and down
the flour for fifteen minutes a game or something.
Speaker 2: If that's like, is that a possibility or is it just?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think it is. I mean they tried
to do it last year and Ben wasn't in a
contract year then, so maybe he is a little bit
more inside. I don't know, you know, maybe I'm not
saying his injuries are fake obviously, but maybe magically he
plays forty games this year instead of fifteen, or thirty
instead of fifteen. You know, who knows?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, do they need to take them?
Speaker 1: I'm sure look back stuff is finicky I'm not a doctor,
Like yeah, but like it's finicky. Maybe they take them
to Jonathan Isaac route, which is like looking at how
the Magic completely players, but like the Magic are like, well,
you're never really gonna play more than twenty minutes a game,
and we recognize that you're probably gonna miss between like
twenty and thirty five games every single year.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think the funny thing about Ben last
year is that he'd play and they'd be like, okay,
like we're gonna pass, They're gonna play super fast, and
like if you catch the ball from a Ben Simmons pass,
you're shooting this three. Like you're like, we're driving up
his It was like a Ponzi scheme to rack up
potential assists for Ben Simmons. It was crazy because I
was just like, guys, why don't you just do this
when he's not on the floor too. Nick Claxon and
Trendon Watford can dribble to half court and then make
a pass to a shooter and then that guy can shoot,
Like you don't have to not do this when he's
not on the court. But hey, you know, I'm not
the NBA coach, so I think we will see them
play like that when Ben's on the floor, And as
to whether they anticipate him being healthy, they should. If
they can see the future on that, they should tell
me what lottery ticket to buy tomorrow.
Speaker 1: I didn't include a question about this player because I
just view this sort of a transient property. I don't
mean to call him property in Brooklyn, but Cam Johnson
that he does seem divisive if you going like other
NBA circles because of his contract, and so it's like,
can you make I'm not even I don't want a
sales pitch on Cam Johnson. I think people understand the value,
but like, what are people maybe missing about what Cam
Johnson actually does?
Speaker 2: That Oh, his contract is actually not bad.
Speaker 1: This is someone that I think fans more so, I
think a lot of teams probably understand, but like fans
have a lot of them from the team's been like, well,
we don't want to give up anything for Cam Johnson
because the contract is awful. And that feels like that
everyone's entitled to their opinion. But that's a take that
feels like it veers like way too far from reality
for me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I hate that take. I think that's the Cam
Johnson might be the ultimate example of NBA fans and
us in general still not really used to like just
how much money these guys are making now right like
twenty he's making million, twenty two million, one and a
half for the next three years. That's what twenty one
million a year gets you in the NBA. Now, Like
a good solid role player who is going to shoot
near forty percent from three every year and be probably
a sixtyeth fifty fifth percentile defender at six nine six
' eight. That's like a good player. He's fine. I
think maybe NETS fans expected some of the Mikhale bridges
like creation uptick when he got here, but like he's
still just like a good solid player and a good
locker room guy you really want on a good team
that is miscast a bunch of not among a bunch
of guys that don't create advantages in Brooklyn And I
saw this tweet the other day that I'm gonna read
and here. Over the last two years, Cam Johnson per
one hundred possessions is twenty five eight and four on
thirty nine percent from three on eleven attempts. Tray Murphy
twenty three seven and three on thirty nine percent from
three on a attempts, and you ask an NBA fan
about Trey Murphy and he's the second coming.
Speaker 1: So I think the two distinct differences. One is I
do think that Trey Murphy has a higher ceiling as
a defender, even though we maybe haven't always seen it
in orans. The other thing is we have a tendency.
I'll throw myself in here because I'm sure it's happened.
Before players sign their second contract, they get romanticized and
then one like I'm in sure to see what's the
perception of Tyree's MAX, and now that he's.
Speaker 2: On the MAX, think I'm the player I use the most.
Speaker 1: Remember how Gaga people were over Tyler Hero. Then he
gets his next contract, It's like, oh, like, why would
any team ever want to take on Tyler Hero? So
I'm wondering if that, you know, Cam Johnson's deal was
less than that. But I feel like that becomes increasingly
too much at play with the way that we evaluate,
or some people evaluate players.
Speaker 3: I also think people just expected this last year's Nets
team to be better, maybe and maybe they shouldn't have.
Maybe I was one of those people, and you can't
look at a team that underperformed and be like, Okay,
well that guy did what he was supposed to do.
And that guy did what he was supposed to, you
have to find someone who didn't do what they were
supposed to. And Cam Johnson who missed every clutch three
he took last year, Like he's like, like every big
three in the fourth quarter they needed last year he missed.
It was the anti Tyler Johnson experience when Tyler Johnson
with the Nets shot like thirty six percent from three
but made every single one, and Nets fans like, I
like check Basketball Reference. I'm like, what do you mean,
He's not shooting forty five percent from three? So that
sucked for Cam Johnson last year. And the team was
also not good, and he missed like a lot of
time with all of these like kind of not like
minor leg injuries, and so he got the reputation is like, oh,
he like is kind of soft and like not clutch
and not built for it, and so the aesthetic bias
went against him and the team sucked and he was
like an easy target. I think that's what happened last
year with Cam Johnson. But you know what, you're getting
good team's gonna trade for him. He's gonna have a
game in the playoffs where he hits six seven threes,
has like two steals, maybe a dunk, ends up with
like twenty five points in like twenty seven minutes.
Speaker 1: That, by the way, that's something else he's guilty of.
Was he was twenty three in his rookie year and
people just like but I also think and I also
I think this is fair because he's not marketed and
even the way he's written about by people who are
super smart a lot of the time, I'm not saying
you everything this focuses on his offense, and there are
teams that need defense that have been linked him, and
it's like you, I think you've raarded it the perfect way.
Speaker 2: It's like he's gonna be.
Speaker 1: Between like the fifty first and sixty fourth percentile in
defense as a guy with six y nine, and like
that has value into itself. And so I think that
might be throwing some fans for a whirl. It's like,
we don't want to add him into this equation when
we clearly need defense from this spot. And it's no,
he's not gonna anchor your defense. But like he's not
gonna hurt it.
Speaker 3: Tall and can shoot, tall and can shoot. I'm gonna
like say that like I'm till I go blue in
the face, Like that's when, like that's really valuable and
not everybody does that. It's a secretly uncommon combination of
skills in the NBA guys that are tall and can shoot,
not all of them.
Speaker 2: What can we do to get them to rebound? What
has happened there?
Speaker 1: Uh?
Speaker 2: They are watching on YouTube? Needs to go back to
that market. Look at Lucas's face when I ask that goes.
Speaker 3: Well, I'm trying. I'm trying to juice his value here.
You don't need to You don't need to ask about that.
Speaker 2: So are you ready for the cookie cutter portion of
the podcast?
Speaker 3: Yes, I'm ready.
Speaker 2: What is looking at this roster? The biggest is going
to be the biggest strength this season.
Speaker 3: I would say, honestly, their ability to play fast if
they lean into it, like if they play Clax and
Watford and Shrewder who can zip up the court in
a minute, and Cam Thomas and like at the start
of the season, Cam John Like they're gonna run out
lineups with four or five guys that can get a
rebound and go, and I think you're gonna see like
a lot of cool stuff in transition and them playing
fast as like there's a lot of ball handling on
the floor, maybe not a lot of decision making and passing.
And I think it's important that we separate those two
because like we talked like, oh, they don't have a
lot of creators, like they don't have a lot of whatever,
but they have a lot of guys that can literally
dribble the basketball, so that'll be fun.
Speaker 1: And that's clearly their biggest weakness too, right, is you're
like dribbling in decision making and that's because they're not
trying where they're not as invested in winning games. That's
mostly fine, but when you're looking at like, well, if
we're trying to try different things and optimize the development
of player X or get camp Thomas off the ball,
that's something that matters quite a bit.
Speaker 3: They were a sneaky, terrible passing team last year, and
I know, like it's hard to think about that. I
think in terms of like from a team wide construction
and not like just individual but like last year, they
would often play lineups where there was not one passer
better than league average for their position. I would say
maybe Mikale Bridges came the closest to it. But like
when you play Cam Thomas, Mikhale, Cam Johnson, Dorian Finney Smith,
Nick Claxton, it's like, where's the passing? That's probably the
worst part of them this season as well.
Speaker 1: So when you're looking at this team, and I won't
hold you to this because I feel like it's going
to shift a bunch throughout the year, but what does
the top ten rotation at full strength look like?
Speaker 3: Uh? Even I'm not beyond this, let me just pull
up Basketball Reference real quick, just so I in front
of me. Uh. I think Ben, if he's healthy, they're
going to start him Like.
Speaker 2: I don't, wow, throw me for a curveball right off
the bat. I love it.
Speaker 3: It's just I just is it really worth it to
make like a stink like he kind of like said, yeah,
I want to start when I'm healthy last year, even
though he didn't really have leverage other than the forty
million dollars on his contract, which I guess is pretty
nice leverage to have. You can just put Dorien Phinney
Smith on the bench and Dorian will be like the
nicest guy and be happy and know he's probably gonna
get traded to a good team anyway. So if I
had to guess, wow, this is I work for. I
write about the perfect team to make me really stupid.
Speaker 2: I do think.
Speaker 1: So there's at least like when you're looking at their rotation,
there's like seven overall locks. I would think with Dennis Shrewder,
Cam Thomas, DFS, Cam Johnson, Nick Claxton, Ben Simmons if
he's healthy, and then Noah Clowney.
Speaker 2: So would you agree with those seven names? Are like
they are?
Speaker 3: Is number eight? But yes, okay, because like you can't. Yeah,
you gotta play.
Speaker 1: Him given what this team needs if you want to
create space, like we have not mentioned Boyan Bogdanovic's name once.
Speaker 3: We have not I nine nine, all right, nine you
gotta have somebody.
Speaker 1: That means we have to choose between Janen Wilson or
Trendon Watford for number ten, which kind of breaks my
heart a little bit.
Speaker 3: Yeah, wow, you're really out on the killing his experien.
Speaker 1: I would see guarantee his contract first and then we
could talk Brooklyn.
Speaker 3: I would say, yeah. I would say, we also haven't
mentioned shake Milton just as by the.
Speaker 1: Way they did it, they clearly that trade was the
Shake Milton sign in trade and Michal Bridges was the
throw in for the Knicks to help get that deal.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, shake, hey, shake Milton.
Speaker 1: They need dribble and decision making, Like that's someone as
a baseline is yeah, let's throw them.
Speaker 2: We could throw them out there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's like these guys I would like to play
in Brooklyn if I was Shake Milton like you might,
you might just end up playing thirty minutes in a
game if you make a couple of nice passes in
the first quarter and hit a couple of threes. I
would say that Jalen's probably gonna play more than Boyon
at first, just because like they clearly have like a
reason to play Jalen Wilson. This is why the more
I go down this roster, because you can't bench Trenton
Watford either. The more I go down this roster, the
more I'm like they have to like can't you can't
talk to a.
Speaker 1: Team that I think when we say a ten man
rotation is like, no, they're emptying the bench every single night.
Speaker 2: It might be the reality.
Speaker 3: So if they go into the first game of the
year with this rotation, with this roster that they have,
on paper, they might be the first team in NBA
history to regularly play fourteen guys a night. Oh, you
can only dress twelve.
Speaker 2: So yeah, let's say that they're playing fourteen guys a night.
Some rule has been broken.
Speaker 3: Well, come on, you know at the NBA offense offices,
maybe they won't be watching Brooklyn games that closely.
Speaker 1: So you can approach this question however you want. Is
it if you want to view it as well they're
trying to lose this game that goes into crunch time,
or if they're trying to win it. Like, if you're
coaching the team, what is your crunch time lineup?
Speaker 3: Nick Claxton and Noah Clowney. I think because you you
want they no Clowney might lose you the game, and
that's fine too, because you want to lose, and you
also want him out there to get experience. But for like,
you know, the semblance of putting together a real competitive team,
and it's a game you want to win. From Rale, Clowney,
you can play too again if you need defense, So Clowney, Claxton,
Cam Johnson, Cam Thomas and probably Dennis Shrewder. Honestly, if
you're looking for a guy like that can really play
pick and roll and organize the offense, and then in
there like you can probably take Noah Clowney out for
Dorian some games and whatnot Cam Johnson for Dorian. So
I'd say that I would say that as small as
maybe Dennis Shrewder and a camp Thomas backcourt sounds and
if Cam Johnson isn't bringing you a bunch a bunch
of defensive value, that's why you have Clowney and Claxton,
you know on the back line.
Speaker 1: Is there a offbeat, weirdo funking lineup you would like
to see them try at some point this season.
Speaker 3: I'll limit my self to not like the five end
of bench guys like Killian Hayes, Keon Johnson, Zaire Williams
right in Watford five. I would like to see them
go uh with Shrewder and Cam Thomas like as a
start to this lineup, because I do really believe in
camp Thomas, like the Norm Powell esque three point chucking
off ball guy, as like the potent as a potential
like seriously interesting NBA type of score. And then obviously
we have to go Claxton and Clowney for rim protection
and then throwing Keon Johnson, like I want to see
him play. I want to see how real the uh
the summer League stuff is. You just have a bunch
of ball handling, You need camp Thomas to take a
bunch of threes, and you have these long, psychotically shot
blocking bigs uh that can move all over the place
on the back line.
Speaker 1: This will surprise anyone who listens to this podcast, but
my lineup is not going to be ultra small. I
would pay ungodly amounts of money to see Clowney, Claxton,
Cam Johnson, Jalen Wilson, and Trenton Watford. I don't know
what the offense ends up looking like, but like, let's
just have all the six seven six eight dudes and
up out there and kind of see and flesh out
and we'll figure out that. Look, Cam Johnson can shoot,
Jail Wilson can shoot. Nick Claxton will be the point guard.
What's the i'd be You could talk me into putting
Ben Simmons into this lineup for someone else. If it's
we need someone who can dribble in decision make then
it's like Okay, fine.
Speaker 3: But how many years in a row do you have
of Ben Simmons on whatever team he's on, making your
all weird, all funky lineup, Probably every year he's been
in the league, correct.
Speaker 1: And I've probably had him as the center in every
single itteration.
Speaker 3: So you know, all things must pass, I guess.
Speaker 1: Okay, So as we record this, they're over under is
said at nineteen and a half would you take the
over or under? And how many wins would you ultimately
see them wind up with.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna take the over. It was wrong last year
when I took the over, but I think I'm gonna
do it again, just because the East is like really bad,
Like the bottom half is really bad, and nobody really
starts tanking until like around the All Star break anyway,
Like they could be I don't know how they could
be four and seven, four and eight, Like all they
need is it? Is it? Two is like a an
eight win month. Maybe that's a stretch, a six win
month early in the year, and they're a third of
the way there. I just think they end up with
twenty one to twenty two wins, and that's probably enough
to be one of the three worst records that you
need for the Cooper Flags sweepstakes.
Speaker 2: Oh it's four. Now you have one of the four
worst records in your golden.
Speaker 3: Oh right, that's true. Then I'm even more comfortable taking
the over.
Speaker 1: And look, if you get twenty one, that was the
fourth worst record in the league last year, well it's
actually toticably the third worst tide, but two teams had
twenty one. The thing I the total is so low,
I want to go over, But I think that I
look at this front office and then a couple others
like Washington, maybe Portland, and Portland's a big one because
they might have too much good talent on the roster.
But if things go too well at the beginning of
the season, I really think that the Nets will pull
the ripcord a lot sooner than other teams might. Where
it's like we've seen Utah kind of hold on to
it for too long, and I can see like Toronto
or Atlanta or Chicago, like those are gonna be teams
that even Detroit this year will kind of like if
they're playing well, they might try and ride it. The
Nets have this two year window of controlling their next
two draft picks. I'm just convinced that Shoran Marks isn't
leaving anything to chance, and so if they get to
a point where they're on pace from more than like eighteen,
they like, it's just he's gonna rip the floor out
from under everybody, whether it's trades, whether we start seeing
like made up body parts on the injury report for
Cam Johnson and Dorian Phinney Smith. That is, that is
my belief as of now. Maybe it will shift when
me and Grant actually do our over unders.
Speaker 3: The total is so low, Like, it's so low.
Speaker 1: The two things I struggle with, and I wonder if
you're the same way is to predict that teams will
win fewer than twenty games or win more than sixty,
Like those are just the numbers that scare me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, those are because it's it's you get a lot
of luck and unforeseeable circumstances and things that are tough
to predict because like if you're you know, if you're
predicting around the forty range, it's like, Okay, I'm set
on this team being a little better or worse in
these areas specifically, and that's why I'm but then that's
it's gonna be a crap shoot. It's it's gonna be
a crap shoot. And the one thing, the one thing
that really lends credence to your argument is that their
best players, they have the perfect tank commander in Cam
Thomas potentially as like the guy who's taking up a
lot of offensive possessions, and their best player, Nick Claxton,
is not a guy that is gonna like lead you
to wins. Same thing with Cam Johnson.
Speaker 1: As best say you kind of like just describe the
Wizard's dynamic between Jordan Poole and Kyle Kuzma. Jordan Poole
perfect tank commander, eat up a lot of possessions and
Kyle Kuzma very good, He's not gonna win you a
ton of basketball games.
Speaker 3: There you go that they those games I will be
locked in for.
Speaker 2: I will think I'm not saying it'll be the Nets,
it could be.
Speaker 1: I think there's gonna be a team I don't want
to say historically bad, but that's just gonna be such
a tough watch because they're really not fucking around and
they're like, this is a season where there's only a
couple teams that aren't invested in winning out of the
gate and we're gonna make sure that we don't accidentally
and look the East specifically, I wouldn't throw the nets
in here, but I've now said this like three or
four times. Someone is accidentally going to make the play
in in the East. Because I'm not convinced that there
are ten teams that want to get into the postseason
next year.
Speaker 3: The ten seed in the plan is hopefully they accidentally
make the playoffs two from there and they knock out
a seven seed that really does want.
Speaker 2: To see because we haven't had it.
Speaker 1: I predict it every year because I'm trying to manifest it.
I want a tend seed to get into the playoffs
by way of the playing tournament, So I'll predict it
every year even if I don't believe it. But yeah,
so like the East is like there's like that intro.
We're in the West, like you could still be kind
of good and your record will just be so bad
because everyone else is so good. But in the East,
it's like if you stumble into victories out of the gate,
like it.
Speaker 2: Might be put up or shut up. Time to pick
a direction.
Speaker 3: The one thing that I think could negate that is
like this draft is considered have a really strong top
five to six, so like as good as amazing as
Cooper Flag is, maybe a franchise will say, okay, like
how miserable do we really want to make everybody for
slightly better lottery odd Like.
Speaker 2: That's all I can see. That is a fantastic viewpoint.
Speaker 1: And I was actually talking Matt Maderno of believing wizards
brought it up to me. Not something I've considered enough
to wear, because the lottery odds are flattened to begin with, Like,
if you're really going to invest in this gradual direction,
it's it should be because you are comfortable with I
want to lock in a top five pick, let's say,
and it's it can't be viewed through the lens of
like well like it's Cooper Flag or bust. Like you
just don't want to end up being the Detroit Pistons,
where it's years of futility in the standings only to
constantly just not get one of these like top four
or five picks.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, especially this yeah yeah. And that's the one
thing that like this year you're probably like more okay
picking four or five than last year with Detroit, who
really got killed? I mean, hey, maybe I think Ron
Hollin's gonna be good, but like.
Speaker 1: So I trust some certain draft people and bleacher reports.
Jonathan Wasserman talked he had Ron Holland number one on
his big board. Yes, and I went back and watched,
and I can see the theory of it. It comes
down to, I know this is very binary, but the
jumper for me, like, if he's gonna hit jumpers at
some point, then it's I see it, And if he's not,
then I don't.
Speaker 3: The thing I do like about Ron and Detroit is
that they got Kate, another like psycho, like they got
another like dog like competitor like.
Speaker 1: Him in a sar if they can five minutes to
play them together. And I was talking to Last Jackson
who covers the Pistons. He thinks they're gonna play together
quite a bit, and like they have Fred Vincent there,
it's like maybe like one of those guys, Pops is
a shooter.
Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, it's it's true, It's true. I think
probably the funniest subplot of last season was Kaid being
on the twenty seven losses in a row Pistons. I
could not think one of the funniest players to end
up there, and who played his best ball the season
during it, sitting.
Speaker 2: Step back threes.
Speaker 3: Yeah's just like I doesn't hate to lose anything.
Speaker 1: Poor guy, Lucas. This was great as always. But is
there anything or any one is this that you want
to Killian Hayes space. It's a safe space. You can
get on some Killian Hayes takes here. Is there anything
we haven't discussed that you think we need to touch
upon Before I let yuskidaddle.
Speaker 3: I just just make sure that, like people know, I
don't dislike Bam out of Baio. I know he got
real shooters on.
Speaker 2: The YouTube thumb Nail and the title is gonna say differently.
Speaker 3: Okay, I really don't want him to quote tweet me.
That would be I think worse than Trenton Wafford Heat players.
Speaker 1: I will say feel more likely to do it because
it's happened to me with a few Heat players Dion
Waiters and James Johnson, so same era Heat. So maybe
I'm like stuck in the past. But they did it,
and they didn't quote tweet me. They quote tweeted someone
tweeting about something I wrote about them. Yeah, yeah, so
I won't I won't promote it that way. But look,
if if the real sick goes make it to the
point of the podcast where you're who do we comparing
Cam Johnson and Larry Bird, that'll be the That's how
we known Sharp day Ron Sharp to Larry Bird.
Speaker 3: Excuse me, I mean who else? You know? That's what
I thought? Off the rim making the past. Yes, well
someone should have done it, someone worse should have done
that past.
Speaker 2: Uh, Lucas, thank you so much for your time. This
is grady.
Speaker 1: You're able just to tell our listeners where they can
find you in all the great work that you're doing.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely so, Nets Daily, an sp nation, I guess
sub sites and uh, I covered the Nets there. I
covered the liberty there as well. Again maybe possibly the
worst and the best professional basketball teams of the very
pot we have an outside chance. I don't even know
how outside it is. But so that there and then
my Twitter is just my name, Lucas Kaplan with an
underscore at the end.
Speaker 2: I do some pre do we need to go after that?
Had the Lucas Kaplan without the underscore? Who's that?
Speaker 3: I don't know. I used to have it and then
I changed like way back in the day, and then
I changed it and I tried to get it back
and someone had snapped it up. Damn it, I was
I was a Twitter novice that was on me. And yeah,
I also do work for Swish Theory, great basketball content website.
Speaker 2: You guys got nice stable writers over there.
Speaker 3: They Yeah, we got a real we got a real
uh fat stack of talent. So yeah, Twitter, I would say,
you'll find everything or nets daily and thank you Dan
for having me on. It's uh maybe next year we'll
it'll be an hour about Cooper Flag. I know. I
trust Adam to do the right thing.
Speaker 1: I will say, I don't remember the last time I
saw active NBA players showering praise upon someone who wasn't
in the league yet, because it's always sort of felt,
if not taboo, like they're gonna be protective of their territory. Like, no,
we're not hyping up this kid in high schooler who's
going into college. But coming out of the Team USA
Mini camp or whatever the things they were saying about him,
I'm like, holy fuck, Like Cooper Flag must be really good.
Speaker 3: Adam Silver, I trust you to do the right thing.
That's all I'm gonna say.
Speaker 1: The Freezer as we speak, even though it's not really
how it's like done at the moment.
Speaker 3: But he knows, he knows what's right.
Speaker 2: Nobody does it better. Covering the nets.
Speaker 1: The links to Lucas's Twitter profile and handle will be
in the podcast in two descriptions.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much again for all your time and exit,
and as you know by now, I.
Speaker 1: Will be pestering you again in the future, so I
will talk to you soon.
Speaker 3: Forward to this