Speaker 1: It's nice size with Dan Ray. I'm going crazy Boston's
Speaker 1: news radio.
Speaker 2: CALLI thanks very much, Kyle. This is Night's Eye with
Speaker 2: Dan Ray. As we head from now until just before midnight,
Speaker 2: Rob Brooks is back in the control room at the
Speaker 2: Broadcast Center and in Medford, beautiful Medford, Massachusetts, and we
Speaker 2: will begin taking your phone calls in the nine o'clock hour.
Speaker 2: In the nine o'clock hour, we will be speaking with
Speaker 2: the dean as the dean of the University of Michigan
Speaker 2: Medical School. How about that doctor Marshall Rungey. He's written
Speaker 2: a book called The Great Healthcare Disruption, and we will
Speaker 2: talk with him during the nine o'clock hour, in part
Speaker 2: talking about how difficult it is in this day and
Speaker 2: age here in Massachusetts and probably elsewhere around the country
Speaker 2: to actually secure the services of a doctor. There are
Speaker 2: a lot of people who used to have you know,
Speaker 2: what's called primary care physicians or family doctors, can't get
Speaker 2: him at this point. They ad just in really scarce supply.
Speaker 2: We'll also be following the Florida State University shooting today,
Speaker 2: another on campus shooting tragedy, and then we're going to
Speaker 2: talk at ten o'clock about President Trump's plan to try
Speaker 2: to revoke the taxi exempt status of a bunch of universities,
Speaker 2: including Harvard. And we'll be joined by Professor Steve Pinker,
Speaker 2: who is a right of center psychology professor at Harvard.
Speaker 2: He's also member of the Council and Academic Freedom at Harvard,
Speaker 2: and though he's been very critical of what Harvard has
Speaker 2: done and has not has not done, he does not
Speaker 2: in any way, shape or form support what President Trump
Speaker 2: is threatening. But before we get to all of that,
Speaker 2: we're going to talk about Autism Awareness Month and three
Speaker 2: other topics. My guest the first segment is Clain Oodie,
Speaker 2: the founder of Autism Elevated and an author of Rebranding Autism,
Speaker 2: A Guide to Seeing Strength on the Spectrum. Clain, Welcome
Speaker 2: to Night's side.
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me. Great to be here.
Speaker 2: Okay, Autism Awareness Month. I think everyone has become very
Speaker 2: aware of autism. Right now, as I understand it, the
Speaker 2: number of children who are being diagnosed with autism is
Speaker 2: like one in thirty one. This is down. This is
Speaker 2: more kids today than ever before in America. So the
Speaker 2: first question, what do you think is going on? Well?
Speaker 3: I think I'm not an expert in this field, but
Speaker 3: I do have. I thought about it a lot for
Speaker 3: twenty eight years. I have an adult autistic son who
Speaker 3: is diagnosed back when the numbers were one in sixty
Speaker 3: four and in the year two thousand. So I've been,
Speaker 3: you know, spend my entire life thinking about this. And
Speaker 3: we actually even went did some early interventions. We we
Speaker 3: he went through kelation therapy, which is based on the
Speaker 3: idea that autistic people it's the vaccine theory that that
Speaker 3: rfk is is talking about. Now we went down that
Speaker 3: rabbit hole and found the results to be inconclusive at best.
Speaker 3: So we have direct experience doing that. But I think
Speaker 3: what's what's true and the science that I've read and
Speaker 3: trust is that is largely genetic. Autism has always been
Speaker 3: around with us in you know, throughout human history, and
Speaker 3: so it's not something that that's going to be cured.
Speaker 3: Is there a possibility or a likelihood even that there
Speaker 3: could be some environmental factor that is amplifying that that's
Speaker 3: a possibility hasn't been proven yet. And you know, another
Speaker 3: theory is that you know, you have coupling, uh genetic coupling,
Speaker 3: so you have you know, two people with you know,
Speaker 3: similar genetic makeup that predisposes them to autism, and they
Speaker 3: have children, and so that would explain the high concentration
Speaker 3: of of autistic people in places like Silicon Valley and
Speaker 3: up up there, you know, around mt the places. So
Speaker 3: Simon Baron Cohen, it's a renowned autism scientists at Cambridge
Speaker 3: over their autism program there, and he's done studies in
Speaker 3: that regard to say that's he thinks it's it's largely
Speaker 3: due to genetic coupling. And then I think also just
Speaker 3: the awareness has has come about the definition of diagnosis
Speaker 3: of autism, you know, it's been refined over the years,
Speaker 3: especially since we went through that in the year two thousand.
Speaker 3: So I think and I think also Dan, that a
Speaker 3: lot of people are kind of self identifying, you know,
Speaker 3: they recognize that there are kind of signatures within themselves
Speaker 3: that kind of fit the description of autism. And it's
Speaker 3: no surprise because again, autism is part of the human condition.
Speaker 3: It's part of a brain profile, a cognitive profile that
Speaker 3: has always been around and by the way, is responsible
Speaker 3: for most of innovation throughout human history. So an inherent
Speaker 3: part of who we are.
Speaker 2: Yeah, people who are autistic can be very very broad.
Speaker 2: I also know enough about autism. I've dealt with for
Speaker 2: many years with the New England Center for Children here
Speaker 2: in Selfborough, Massachusetts, which is a center for families who
Speaker 2: have children with autism. It's also people probably realize this
Speaker 2: that autism there's a spectrum, and there are some people
Speaker 2: who have Aspergers, which is I guess a form of autism,
Speaker 2: not nearly as pronounced. I was interested when you talked
Speaker 2: about the genetic couplings. Is there any effort being made
Speaker 2: for individuals to find out if they have a latent
Speaker 2: gene that that would make their offspring more or less
Speaker 2: likely to be to inherit this condition.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know if there's a genetic test. That's
Speaker 3: that's kind of outside of my swim lane. So I'm
Speaker 3: not sure the answer to that question. But it is
Speaker 3: autism is a spectrum, and you know, the way, the
Speaker 3: way I see it is if you have a pie,
Speaker 3: you have certain you know, pieces of the pie, and
Speaker 3: you have certain factors that that you look at that
Speaker 3: are kind of signatures of autism. So for example, you
Speaker 3: know sensory processing, language and speech, uh, you know flexibility
Speaker 3: of routine so that you can you can sort of
Speaker 3: look at it. Some people have bigger pieces of the
Speaker 3: pie in the in some of those areas, and some
Speaker 3: somehow smaller pieces, so they're affected less in those areas.
Speaker 3: It's important to know that all of us have some
Speaker 3: of this, you know, all of us like a routine,
Speaker 3: all of us, like you know, I struggle.
Speaker 4: With communications, social communication more than others. So you know,
Speaker 4: it is an inherent part of who we are as
Speaker 4: human beings. And what I would say is, you know,
Speaker 4: what I'm focused on is the strengths because you know,
Speaker 4: and we received our diagnosis and largely our experience has
Speaker 4: been around this narrative, this languguage of deficit and disorder
Speaker 4: and dysfunction, and that's basically what we were focused on
Speaker 4: as parents early on.
Speaker 2: Those that are a little overplayed.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're they're totally focused on that's you know, the
Speaker 3: dominant narrative is around the challenges.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 3: And so I started to with our son. I made
Speaker 3: a very deliberate effort, my wife and I I read,
Speaker 3: you know, for the second time, I read first Break
Speaker 3: All the Rules and now Discovery of Strength by Marcus Buckingham.
Speaker 3: It was for a leadership course, and from that moment
Speaker 3: on I changed my mind entirely, and I, you know,
Speaker 3: dedicated myself to finding, nurturing and developing my son's strengths
Speaker 3: and it changed everything for for him and for us.
Speaker 3: And then from there I started I put together program
Speaker 3: to help young adults recognize their strengths. See you there,
Speaker 3: you know, develop a strength profile and the strength identity,
Speaker 3: and then align to create.
Speaker 2: This I assume is this is very much your book,
Speaker 2: and I want to mention the book so in case
Speaker 2: people out there, and I'm sure some people want to
Speaker 2: get the book. The book is Rebranding Autism A Guide
Speaker 2: to Seeing Strength on the Spectrum. Claim Udie, thank you
Speaker 2: for being with us tonight. Thank you for explaining it
Speaker 2: as clearly as you have. I understood everything that you said.
Speaker 2: The book Rebranding Autism, a Guide to Seeing Strength on
Speaker 2: the Spectrum. Appreciate your time. I hope your family and
Speaker 2: your son are doing well, and I hope that as
Speaker 2: time goes on, all of us will better appreciate and
Speaker 2: understand these children who come along and who happen to
Speaker 2: be dealing with autism and families that are dealing with autism,
Speaker 2: and we all should be able to help them along
Speaker 2: the path. Of life. Thank you so much for your
Speaker 2: time tonight.
Speaker 3: Thank you for shire it.
Speaker 2: You're very welcome. When we get back, when we talk
Speaker 2: about the marathon and a female runner who is an unexpected,
Speaker 2: unlikely star, I will explain this is someone you want
Speaker 2: to keep your eye on, maybe even as the winner
Speaker 2: of the women's race on Monday. We'll explain right after
Speaker 2: the break.
Speaker 1: You're on night Side with Dan Ray on w Boston's
Speaker 1: News radio.
Speaker 2: Marathon is Monday. I think everybody knows that we have
Speaker 2: all sorts of levels and classifications. Certainly there's the wheelchair division,
Speaker 2: and there's the para para division, as all sorts of divisions,
Speaker 2: and people run based upon their age levels. But the big,
Speaker 2: the big obviously races that are watched, the men's and
Speaker 2: the women's race, and of course that cast of characters
Speaker 2: changes every year. Sometimes there's a winner coming back, but
Speaker 2: this year there's an American runner who you might want
Speaker 2: to keep your eye out for with us as a
Speaker 2: mean Tory Boston Globe Sports Web producer and editor. Welcome,
Speaker 2: I mean nice to have you with us. How are
Speaker 2: you this evening.
Speaker 5: I'm doing fine. Thank you, thanks for having me. I
Speaker 5: appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Oh, thanks very much for coming, for being available tonight.
Speaker 2: I do the shows remotely, so it's not like you're
Speaker 2: in the studio, but thank you for dropping by. I'll
Speaker 2: put I'll use that euphemism. So you did a profile
Speaker 2: on a runner named Kira Dematto who was described as
Speaker 2: an unlikely star and she may, she may, she could
Speaker 2: win the women's division. She was a runner in college
Speaker 2: and then it kind of she forgot about it. I
Speaker 2: guess tell us her story, because this is kind of
Speaker 2: like somebody joining the Patriots at the age of thirty eight,
Speaker 2: and it's like, what if where were they from the
Speaker 2: last fifteen years? You know, well, they were working, you know.
Speaker 2: Every once in a while you see a sports story
Speaker 2: like this. The Red Sox had a pitcher last year,
Speaker 2: Cam Boozer, who had retired and was a carpenter, and
Speaker 2: then he was pitching in an independent league and he's
Speaker 2: throwing ninety five ninety six and somebody took a look
Speaker 2: at him and the Red Sox picked him up and
Speaker 2: he's he's now pitching for the White Sox. But he
Speaker 2: did pretty well with the Red Sox. That's kind of
Speaker 2: the same story here, I think. Tell us about Kira Demato.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, Kira's god really one of the most
Speaker 5: unique stories in marathoning. She was, you know, she was
Speaker 5: an All American at American University. You know, she's got
Speaker 5: a real running pedigree. Of course, she had a lot
Speaker 5: of talent, but you know, she graduated in two thousand
Speaker 5: and six, and she had a lot of injuries right
Speaker 5: out of college, and she just decided to kind of
Speaker 5: call it quits, you know, go kind of back to
Speaker 5: a normal life. She got a real estate license, she
Speaker 5: had three kids, and she kind of put running away
Speaker 5: for six seven years. In twenty thirteen, she decided to
Speaker 5: run her first marathon, and she ran it in three
Speaker 5: hours and forty nine minutes, which for a lot of
Speaker 5: folks is a pretty decent time, but is almost an
Speaker 5: hour and a half slower than what the top elite
Speaker 5: women in the world say are running these days. And
Speaker 5: so she stopped running again for a few years. In
Speaker 5: twenty seventeen, at the age of thirty two, she signed
Speaker 5: her husband up for a marathon as a joke, decided
Speaker 5: to run it herself. Ran three fourteen to qualify for Boston,
Speaker 5: ran two forty seven a few months later to get
Speaker 5: into the pro field, and a couple of years later,
Speaker 5: thirty seven years old, she ran two hours and nineteen
Speaker 5: minutes to become the American record holder in the in
Speaker 5: the marathon. So it's an incredible rise to go from
Speaker 5: in the space of four years from having run one
Speaker 5: marathon fairly slowly to being like the best of the
Speaker 5: fastest American women's marathon or in history. So she's had,
Speaker 5: she's had some story.
Speaker 2: When I read your story, how did you identify her?
Speaker 2: I mean, is this your I mean, you're a sports guy.
Speaker 2: I'm sure you cover a little football, a little baseball,
Speaker 2: little this, little that. How did you find this story?
Speaker 2: This is a great story.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, Well, so I'm a runner myself. I'm you know,
Speaker 5: I did my first marathon in the fall. I've always
Speaker 5: been very interested into it. And Kira is at this point,
Speaker 5: you know, she's one of the biggest stars in marathoning,
Speaker 5: and so she's you know, she's sort of pretty pretty
Speaker 5: famous in that world, and her story is pretty pretty
Speaker 5: well known in that world. And so I saw, you know,
Speaker 5: once she was she was coming to Boston, not for
Speaker 5: the first time. A lot of us thought it was
Speaker 5: the first time because the first time she raised Boston
Speaker 5: was in twenty eighteen when she was, you know, a
Speaker 5: two forty seven marathoner that was barely being allowed into
Speaker 5: the pro field. And she's coming back seven years later,
Speaker 5: as you know, the second now the second fastest American
Speaker 5: woman in history. So so you know, it's I think
Speaker 5: in the world of running, en world of marathoning, her
Speaker 5: story is pretty special, bean, pretty famous.
Speaker 2: Okay, here's the question. I noticed in your article that
Speaker 2: she's been working with some coaches in Utah, but it
Speaker 2: didn't sound as if she was from Utah. So obviously,
Speaker 2: this is a young woman who graduates from American University
Speaker 2: in Washington, d C. When she started out in life
Speaker 2: as that real estate agent, whereabouts was she working? But
Speaker 2: she working in an area where you wouldn't be doing
Speaker 2: a lot of running. I guess you train in Utah
Speaker 2: because of the mountains and the heights, and you get
Speaker 2: you get better because you're training in tougher conditions. So
Speaker 2: where where was she before she finally decided to take
Speaker 2: it for real, real, really seriously and go to your Utah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so, as far as I know Kira's she's from Virginia.
Speaker 5: I know she's from the from the DC area. I
Speaker 5: think she yeah, so she went. She went to American
Speaker 5: University in DC. She was based in Richmond for a
Speaker 5: long time. I think that's where she settled down after
Speaker 5: she got married and got her license. And then I
Speaker 5: think in this last year she had sort of a
Speaker 5: difficult twenty twenty four. She was a big favorite to
Speaker 5: make the American Olympic team in the marathon, but I
Speaker 5: think she got hurt on the day she didn't make
Speaker 5: the team. And I think at this point, you know,
Speaker 5: I think she's I think she just turned forty last year.
Speaker 5: I think she's kind of trying to make one more
Speaker 5: big push with her career. So she moved to Utah
Speaker 5: to work with at Eyestone, who's long the cross country
Speaker 5: and track coach at BYU. He's the coach of Connor
Speaker 5: Manson Clayton Young, who are the top two American men
Speaker 5: in the field on Monday, both BYU grads, and so
Speaker 5: I think she just wanted to shift to what is
Speaker 5: a very competitive training environment with some of the best
Speaker 5: marathoners in the world, the world renowned coach at altitude
Speaker 5: to kind of give it, you know, give it one
Speaker 5: last shot to run fast in these next couple of years,
Speaker 5: maybe even in the next Olympic cycle, maybe try to
Speaker 5: reclaim her American record. So I think this is you know,
Speaker 5: this is kind of a change she made to make
Speaker 5: sort of one last push with her career.
Speaker 2: Great story. This is just a great story, and people
Speaker 2: should be looking for her. Kira Demato is her name,
Speaker 2: and I mean, this is this is a great story.
Speaker 2: It's one of those stories. It's almost too good to
Speaker 2: be true. I mean, you know, the marathon is that
Speaker 2: they're peaked. They're not in their twenties. There's a lot
Speaker 2: of them that hit their late twenties and thirties and
Speaker 2: they peak out at thirty two or thirty three. So
Speaker 2: she wasn't even involved heavily in the sport. Great story.
Speaker 2: Thanks for sharing it with us, and hopefully this will
Speaker 2: make Monday's marathon much more interesting, particularly because it's an
Speaker 2: American runner and because we haven't done that well in
Speaker 2: marathons in recent years, including Boston. Thanks so much for
Speaker 2: your time. Where'd you grow up? You a Boston guy? Originally?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I grew up in Watertown, so so I am
Speaker 5: so I am from here. I grew up in Watertown.
Speaker 5: I live in Brooklyn.
Speaker 2: Excellent excellent. It's good. It's good that the Globe has
Speaker 2: some people from the area, that's for sure. You know, yeah,
Speaker 2: Mi Peal, Dan Shaughnessy grew up in Groton, and you know,
Speaker 2: Kevin Paul DuPont. It's great to have some local guys
Speaker 2: really understand the sports heritage of this city is what anyway, Congratulations,
Speaker 2: congratulates a great job, Boston Globe Sports web producer and editor.
Speaker 2: We'll be back right after the news at the bottom
Speaker 2: of the hour, and we're going to talk about something
Speaker 2: that should be of concern to everyone going to It's
Speaker 2: labeled beyond fake photos. A new report reveals how everyday
Speaker 2: AI tools can be taught to steal your passwords. Just
Speaker 2: another thing to worry about. Right after the break. Here
Speaker 2: on Nightside, my name's Dan Ray is WBZ, Boston's News radio,
Speaker 2: ten thirty am dial. We're an iHeartRadio station. Pull down
Speaker 2: our iHeart app, put it on all your devices, and
Speaker 2: make us your number one preset. That way, we'll always
Speaker 2: be just a finger tip away. Back on nights Side,
Speaker 2: right after the news.
Speaker 1: It's Night Side, Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2: All right, we are all talking about, or at least
Speaker 2: at different levels, we're talking about artificial intelligence, and now
Speaker 2: we have to think about what are the implications of
Speaker 2: artificial intelligence with us? Now is Eti Mayor. He's the
Speaker 2: chief security strategist of CATO Networks. Apparently there's a new report,
Speaker 2: Eti that reveals how everyday AI tools and many of
Speaker 2: us don't even know what our regular AI tools can
Speaker 2: be taught to steal our passwords. Just something else for
Speaker 2: us to worry about. How are you this evening, Eti?
Speaker 6: I'm doing good. Thank you for having me on.
Speaker 2: You're very welcome, Thanks for coming on. So what's this
Speaker 2: all about again? It's a little bit about my pay grade,
Speaker 2: but I want to listen.
Speaker 6: And learn, Okay, so let me explain. So, we recently
Speaker 6: released the twenty twenty five CATO Threat Report, and in
Speaker 6: the report, we detailed how we, using our technique called
Speaker 6: narrative engineering, convinced all the leading AI tools you know deepseeak, Open, ais, Chagipt,
Speaker 6: Copilot to actually create software for us to steal passwords
Speaker 6: from browsers. Now, for those who are unfamiliar with what
Speaker 6: is narrative engineering, we basically convince these AI tools that
Speaker 6: they now live in a world where creating fishing and
Speaker 6: malware and viruses is actually a good thing. So we
Speaker 6: actually jail broke them, remove the guardrails that prevent you
Speaker 6: from doing bad things using these tools, and convince them
Speaker 6: to create a software for us that can steal passwords
Speaker 6: from a browser.
Speaker 2: Who imposes the guardrails on these items? So these items exist.
Speaker 2: I think people have some familiarity with these products that
Speaker 2: you're talking about. But who imposes the guardrails and did
Speaker 2: they give you permission or did you just do this
Speaker 2: as an academic exercise to remove the guardrails?
Speaker 6: So great question. The guardrails are said by the companies
Speaker 6: that manufacture these chatbots and AI tools. So Open Ai
Speaker 6: creatept and they put the guardrails. Microsoft create copils and
Speaker 6: they put the guardrails Deep Sick just the same. And
Speaker 6: what we did is we did this exercise to see
Speaker 6: if the guardrails can be removed. Of course, once we
Speaker 6: saw what that meant and the implications, we reported this
Speaker 6: back to the companies so they can improve their products
Speaker 6: so criminals don't use this capability to create this type
Speaker 6: of malware.
Speaker 2: I see. So you what the service that you provide
Speaker 2: almost is Let's say I have a factory and I
Speaker 2: think that my factory when we walk up at night
Speaker 2: at six o'clock at night until we reopen in the
Speaker 2: morning at eight o'clock in the morning, is impregnable. But sometimes,
Speaker 2: if I'm smart, I'll hire a company and I'll say, look,
Speaker 2: see if you can break into my factory or break
Speaker 2: into my jewelry store and get around work around the
Speaker 2: electronic alarm system. It's kind of the same principle. And
Speaker 2: if you do it, then maybe you can show me
Speaker 2: where the flaws are in my alarm system and actually
Speaker 2: make my store on my factory impregnable to thieves. This
Speaker 2: is kind of the same principle. Yes, no, so yeah.
Speaker 6: What you describe right now is exactly what's called red
Speaker 6: teaming in the cybersecurity world, where you hire a group
Speaker 6: of security professionals to try and break and hack your
Speaker 6: company or your network or your product so you can
Speaker 6: better secure it. That's not really what CATO provides. We
Speaker 6: actually provide a solution later to secure everything. But we
Speaker 6: did this exercise of doing this kind of red teaming
Speaker 6: and finding the vulnerabilities in the AI to better understand
Speaker 6: these tools that everybody is using. We want to understand
Speaker 6: do they also bring in any risk with them, and
Speaker 6: how could potentially bad people use this?
Speaker 2: Well, I say this, thank God that you folks are
Speaker 2: around doing this, because if you're not, these tools will
Speaker 2: be out there and available. And you know, with every
Speaker 2: breakthrough there comes i think a potential risk and a
Speaker 2: potential cost. And you know, God bless you for what
Speaker 2: you're doing there. What was the reaction of these companies
Speaker 2: you mentioned. Was it Meta was one of them? Or
Speaker 2: is Meta not involved in this?
Speaker 6: No, Meta was not involved in this one, but it
Speaker 6: was Deep sick, Microsoft and open Ai, and we reported
Speaker 6: this back to them. I can tell you that we
Speaker 6: didn't really get a response from Deep Sick Microsoft. Microsoft
Speaker 6: actually acknowledged it and said that they're going to fix it.
Speaker 6: But I think what you mentioned is one of the
Speaker 6: most important things here, and that is with every new
Speaker 6: technology and every new tool that we bring into our
Speaker 6: personal life or into our work, we're bringing in some
Speaker 6: sort of risk with it as well. And it's very
Speaker 6: important that we understand these risks and be able to
Speaker 6: find them before you know, things get a little bit
Speaker 6: of had Who.
Speaker 2: Is the company that didn't respond to your overture?
Speaker 6: Oh there was a deep stick. That's the Chinese manufacturer
Speaker 6: of the new AI tool.
Speaker 2: I'm flabbergaster they didn't respond. I mean, you know, I
Speaker 2: think that that they have from what I read, that
Speaker 2: they have mal intentions. They're the ones also who have
Speaker 2: caused the problem with TikTok, if I'm not mistaken, the
Speaker 2: Chinese government companies that are owned and allowed by the
Speaker 2: Chinese Communist Party, and they obviously are using TikTok to
Speaker 2: potential mind all sorts of information on Americans. This is
Speaker 2: really complicated, and it reminds me they used to be
Speaker 2: a magazine when I was a young kid called Spy
Speaker 2: Versus Spy. It was a comic book, but I think
Speaker 2: Spy versus Spy is now today real spy versus real spy.
Speaker 2: They probably appreciate that you told them that you were
Speaker 2: able to, you know, take the guard rails off, but
Speaker 2: they probably were not happy to return any appreciative congratulations
Speaker 2: to you on that one. Did you expect they would
Speaker 2: play nice and cooperate or are you not surprised that
Speaker 2: when the phone didn't ring, you know it was them?
Speaker 6: So to be honest, changing and retraining these AI models
Speaker 6: is not an easy task, and if you're not really
Speaker 6: big on security and it's maybe not your number one
Speaker 6: priority or it becomes a very hard to have to perform.
Speaker 6: Then some companies would just would revert back to saying,
Speaker 6: you know what, that's kind of out of our scope.
Speaker 6: That's not what we do with our red teaming. We
Speaker 6: really don't want to deal with this at this point.
Speaker 6: So you know, when we submit this kind of disclosure
Speaker 6: to companies, we do it with the good faith of hey,
Speaker 6: here's what we found. We suggest you secure it so
Speaker 6: it doesn't happen, and then it's really really up to
Speaker 6: them to take it from that point on. But also
Speaker 6: it's up to us as consumers and as businesses to
Speaker 6: know that these vulnerabilities and these capabilities exist on these
Speaker 6: different tools, because not only are we using them on
Speaker 6: a daily basis, we're going to get very close to
Speaker 6: the point now that we're almost dependent on them, no.
Speaker 2: Question, no question about that. So EATI I don't want
Speaker 2: to ask you what you use for security, but all
Speaker 2: of us have bank accounts, all of us now have
Speaker 2: you know, personal passwords and all of that is there
Speaker 2: any way? I mean, obviously you're back in the bad
Speaker 2: old days. But when we didn't have alarms in your
Speaker 2: house or all of that. No one can ever assure
Speaker 2: you that someone won't break into your house. Is there
Speaker 2: any company out there that can assure my listeners, or
Speaker 2: can assure you, or can assure me that they can
Speaker 2: provide complete, absolute guaranteed security so that you know that
Speaker 2: your passwords won't be stolen, your bank accounts won't be attacked.
Speaker 2: Or is that just impossible to even contemplate?
Speaker 6: So if there was such a product or capability, I
Speaker 6: tried to invent it, and I'd probably do this interview
Speaker 6: from an island that I bought in the Caribbean and
Speaker 6: not from the cold weather here in Boston. But there
Speaker 6: are things joking aside, there are things everybody and anybody
Speaker 6: can do to at least raise the bar and not
Speaker 6: be the lowest hanging fruits for thread actors. So if
Speaker 6: we're talking about passwords, for example, because in this example
Speaker 6: in our report we showed how you can create a
Speaker 6: software that stills password from browser, I think everybody needs
Speaker 6: to be aware that this is out there and kind
Speaker 6: of remind everybody. Here are three quick tips for secure
Speaker 6: in your password.
Speaker 7: Right.
Speaker 6: Number one is never use your password on multiple websites
Speaker 6: password because if it gets stolen from one, then the
Speaker 6: attackers can use it on any other website. Okay, number
Speaker 6: tip number two always use two factor authentication. I know
Speaker 6: that it's sometimes annoying to set up those one time
Speaker 6: password and get the semesters an email, but that definitely
Speaker 6: will make sure that you are not the lowest hanging
Speaker 6: fruit for the thread actors who are trying to do
Speaker 6: passwords and identity. And number three is to remember to
Speaker 6: periodically change your password. Even if you have a very
Speaker 6: strong password, don't give the attackers the opportunity to obtain
Speaker 6: it and log in on your behalf. Make sure that
Speaker 6: you change it periodically.
Speaker 2: Oh great, great suggestions, Thank you very much, love to
Speaker 2: have you back. You've been a great guest. ETI mayor
Speaker 2: give us the address of your company. I don't know
Speaker 2: that this is going to generate any business for you,
Speaker 2: but how can they get in touch with Kto Networks
Speaker 2: if they if they'd like to, you know, talk to
Speaker 2: you and maybe do a little business.
Speaker 6: So you can go on our website katonetwork dot com.
Speaker 6: In fact, you can go on Kato networks dot com
Speaker 6: slash report to free download the report that we discussed.
Speaker 6: We also have a bunch of blogs and reports, also
Speaker 6: some videos and masterclasses that we created that really train
Speaker 6: everyone on the different threats and threat actors and the
Speaker 6: threat landscape that is out there. So it's all available
Speaker 6: free on on our website kid on Networks dot.
Speaker 2: Com eat, I may or thank you very much for
Speaker 2: your time tonight. Maybe we'll have you back in the
Speaker 2: not too distant future and talk about the newest development,
Speaker 2: which I'm sure someone's working on tonight.
Speaker 6: Thanks thanks for having me, You're welcome.
Speaker 2: We get back. There's a bit of a squabble. I
Speaker 2: don't know if I could call it a fight, but
Speaker 2: there's a squabble going between or going on between Bob
Speaker 2: Kraft and Bill Belichick. Who would have thunk We'll be
Speaker 2: back and we'll explain with the patent Professor John Risby.
Speaker 2: He's been a guest before. He's a great guest, coming
Speaker 2: right back.
Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2: All right, well, we have had this guest whom about
Speaker 2: to introduce to you before. He's a great guest. His
Speaker 2: name is John Risby, called him the patent professor. Professor Risby, Risby,
Speaker 2: welcome back to NIGHTSID. How are you?
Speaker 7: Yeah? Good? It's always a pleasure to be here.
Speaker 2: Thank you well, thanks for thank you very much. We
Speaker 2: picked up on this story this morning which was I
Speaker 2: thought quite interesting, and that is that, uh, Bill Belichick
Speaker 2: and Bob Kraft, who I don't think are the best
Speaker 2: of friends, look like they might be heading to some
Speaker 2: sort of a trademark battle, I believe it or not
Speaker 2: over some of the slogans that I think Belichick feels
Speaker 2: he coined and that maybe his new lady friend feels
Speaker 2: Bill Kraft or Bob Kraft, uh proloined. What's going on?
Speaker 8: Yeah, so, uh, And the strategy is somewhat unusual and
Speaker 8: I don't have there's really not much precedent for it
Speaker 8: in trademark law.
Speaker 7: Although and I'll tell you what the strategy is that.
Speaker 8: In these filings they're using the exact same trademark that
Speaker 8: the England Patriots have under you know, Bob Kraft as
Speaker 8: except putting Bill's version at the end of them. And
Speaker 8: this is I think misdirected and misguided. It's the closest
Speaker 8: analogy that I can think of is that recently Taylor
Speaker 8: Swift had filed copyrights for all of her original songs
Speaker 8: in her version, but that's completely different. That's we're talking
Speaker 8: about copyright law, which is different than trademark law, and
Speaker 8: the difference there.
Speaker 2: Copy you know, just to simplify if my audience, copyright
Speaker 2: basically talks about really creative stuff like someone who writes
Speaker 2: a novel, music, Taylor Swift, a movie, photographs. You go
Speaker 2: somewhere and you shoot somewhere in the wild and you
Speaker 2: get these great photographs of mountains and uh and and
Speaker 2: grizzly bears and and and you you copyright them, or
Speaker 2: or paintings. Trademarks, it's it's intellectual property, but it's it's
Speaker 2: a word or it's a phrase, it's a symbol or
Speaker 2: a design. And I guess Belichick is saying, Hey, I
Speaker 2: was the one that I use the word coined these phrases.
Speaker 2: And I think that's what he's arguing, that that he
Speaker 2: coined these phrases such as you know, no day off
Speaker 2: or you know some some of the things that that
Speaker 2: we associate with with Belichick correct.
Speaker 8: Yeah, by do your job or ignore the noise, these
Speaker 8: are all uh, he may have coined them. But trademark law,
Speaker 8: I mean, the law does not protect the person that
Speaker 8: coins a phrase. There's no copyright protection for short phrases.
Speaker 7: Now, if you're the first.
Speaker 8: To file, then you've got a decent claim.
Speaker 7: But that he's not the first to.
Speaker 2: File, so Bobcraft beat him to beat him to the
Speaker 2: to the filing.
Speaker 8: He exactly, so you have to file first under copyright law,
Speaker 8: and he beat him to the filing, and then you
Speaker 8: have to It's not enough just to reserve a slogan
Speaker 8: or a name. It's not like domain names where you
Speaker 8: register a domain name and you own it. Trademark law
Speaker 8: requires use so that there they have to be used
Speaker 8: in commerce, and you can't just apply for it.
Speaker 7: And hold it. I don't know if there's been any use.
Speaker 7: They do have.
Speaker 8: There's a period of time where you can apply for
Speaker 8: an intent to use trademark.
Speaker 7: But if you're not first, the trademark.
Speaker 8: Office is going to do a search and find conflicting marks.
Speaker 8: And if somebody has superior rights and has filed earlier,
Speaker 8: and they believe consumers are going to be confused, then
Speaker 8: absolutely the person that is second to file that trademark
Speaker 8: likely will and should be rejected, is under a likelihood
Speaker 8: of confusion rejection, which is basically that consumers are going
Speaker 8: to be confused. And I think simply putting Bill's version
Speaker 8: at the end of a trademark phrase is not enough
Speaker 8: to prevent confusion any any different than if meet John
Speaker 8: Rizzby or the patent professor would start selling Coca Cola
Speaker 8: products and in parentheses put John Risby's version or the
Speaker 8: patent professor version. That's not enough to prevent confusion.
Speaker 2: So let me get the professor to explain this. So
Speaker 2: Belichick is going to say, hey, I used to tell
Speaker 2: the team for years and years and years there are
Speaker 2: no days off, no days off. We work hard every day,
Speaker 2: no days off, football training camp to the Super Bowl,
Speaker 2: no days off. That's going to be his argument. In
Speaker 2: the meantime, if I'm understanding you, Bob Craft thought, oh,
Speaker 2: that's a pretty good phrase. Bob Craft went and trademarked
Speaker 2: that phrase and associated with his ownership of the Patriots.
Speaker 7: Correct exactly, and the selling of goods services.
Speaker 2: So okay, So now, what what about? What about if
Speaker 2: Craft makes the argument, Look, when when Belichick claims to
Speaker 2: have come up with this phrase, he was an employee
Speaker 2: of my company, and therefore that phrase that he created,
Speaker 2: he created it in the context and in the course
Speaker 2: of his employment and I, as his employer, have a
Speaker 2: right to ownership of that phrase. Does that argument on
Speaker 2: behalf of craft have have some some some impact.
Speaker 8: Yeah, so gosh, that is an interesting argument. It Typically
Speaker 8: it requires support from an employment agreement, and it applies.
Speaker 8: I've never seen it apply to trademarks. Typically it's for
Speaker 8: patents and copyrights, so those that are produced in the
Speaker 8: course of employment. But that's that's by an employment agreements.
Speaker 2: But this wasn't. What I'm saying is there aren't too
Speaker 2: many people who have a higher profile than an NFL
Speaker 2: head coach who's sitting in front of the media, you know,
Speaker 2: three or four times a week or maybe more often,
Speaker 2: certainly after every game. And Belichick did have these phrases,
Speaker 2: every New England Patriot fan would know that they they
Speaker 2: began with him. I don't think Bob Kraft would have
Speaker 2: said to Belichick, Hey, after the game tomorrow, just when
Speaker 2: we win, you know, tell tell everybody that you've been
Speaker 2: telling the players. Now you know my phrase, no days off.
Speaker 2: It's so sort of thing they're prone to. Belichick created
Speaker 2: it spontaneously. I don't think he had any intention to
Speaker 2: come up with his phrase and then slap it on
Speaker 2: sweatshirts and sell no days off sweatshirts. I just think
Speaker 2: it might be a case that's a first impression or
Speaker 2: my way off the page.
Speaker 8: Well, there's certainly there's no precedent. So you're right in
Speaker 8: the sense that it's an argument that can be made
Speaker 8: to the extent that they will try to show that
Speaker 8: there's some similarity between what Taylor Swift did.
Speaker 7: That's copyright law, but.
Speaker 8: There's also a huge difference in that, like she never
Speaker 8: gave up rights to the original songwriting rights, the lyrics,
Speaker 8: the melody, those are always owned by her and owned
Speaker 8: in terms of actual copyrights. But in this case, you
Speaker 8: don't have Build does not have any intellectual property rights
Speaker 8: to the slogans and the saying, despite the fact that yes,
Speaker 8: he said them first, he made them famous, and he
Speaker 8: is known for those. But the law does not provide
Speaker 8: any protection for short.
Speaker 7: Slogans or sayings. There's just no protection for that.
Speaker 8: If you power trademarkers start selling goods or service, is
Speaker 8: that's how you get trademark rights.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, okay, so so Bill might be left out
Speaker 2: in the cold here. It seems a little unfair, but
Speaker 2: the law sometimes is unfair. Professor Rusby is always you've
Speaker 2: clarified things very nicely for us. Thanks so much for
Speaker 2: your time on this Thursday night. And I assume you're
Speaker 2: not a Patriots fan. You're probably I know you're in Florida,
Speaker 2: so you're probably a Dolphins fan. But if there is,
Speaker 2: if there's some player down there or some coach that
Speaker 2: comes up with a real catchy phrase, they should get
Speaker 2: in touch with you and make sure that they cover
Speaker 2: themselves legally before before the phrase that they create gets
Speaker 2: out into the into the ether and someone else steals it.
Speaker 8: Yere, they need to they need to file as soon
Speaker 8: as possible because trademark rights are either first to use
Speaker 8: or first to file. And youth means commercial youth selling
Speaker 8: goods their services.
Speaker 7: And had Bill actually done that other than.
Speaker 9: You know, not just say that the saying yeah, but
Speaker 9: I sard me, I sympathize, and I agree with what
Speaker 9: you're saying about it doesn't seem fair.
Speaker 8: Unfortunately, as you pointed out a lot of times, that
Speaker 8: law is not seen as fair, uh, and that trademark
Speaker 8: law is not on his side.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you could tell that to every guy who's every
Speaker 2: guy or a woman who's locked up in prison. None
Speaker 2: of them did the crime trademark, copyright, patent or domain names.
Speaker 2: You got to be really know this stuff, and John
Speaker 2: Risby does. Professor Risby, thank you so much. We'll talk again.
Speaker 7: Okay, thank you always a pleasure.
Speaker 2: You're welcome. All right, we get back from the nine
Speaker 2: o'clock News. We're going to talk about a very serious
Speaker 2: problem and I think many of you can identify with,
Speaker 2: and that is have you tried to change doctors? So
Speaker 2: you have a doctor who retired and have you been
Speaker 2: able to get a doctor here in New England are
Speaker 2: anywhere in the country. We'll talk with the Dean of
Speaker 2: the University of Michigan Medical School about that very problem
Speaker 2: and why we do not have enough doctors in this country,
Speaker 2: the most advanced country in the world. It's a problem.
Speaker 2: We'll talk about that in changing medical terrain and environment
Speaker 2: and how it's going to affect all of us. This
Speaker 2: will be a great guest. We had him with us
Speaker 2: briefly a couple of weeks ago, and I'm so delighted
Speaker 2: he'll join us and take your calls tonight back on
Speaker 2: Night Side. Right after this