Speaker 1: Welcome into another Clippers Talk. I'm Adam Oslin another one
Speaker 1: move over, DJ CALLI or whoever says that, yes, they continue,
Speaker 1: stack them deep and sell them cheap. That's what I
Speaker 1: always say. That's what we're doing here on Clippers Talk.
Speaker 1: I don't care that it's Labor Day weekend. This is
Speaker 1: a labor of love and we have more content to
Speaker 1: bring you here on the new YouTube channel side. It's
Speaker 1: always been a podcast, at least for the last seven
Speaker 1: years or so. Now, if you want to see me,
Speaker 1: if you want to see some of the graphics I
Speaker 1: put up for a Friday show where I talked about
Speaker 1: it beats zoo Box and that new contract extension with
Speaker 1: graphics and videos, you can go to at clippers Talk
Speaker 1: on YouTube for that. I'm at follow out of May.
Speaker 1: Welcome in everyone. I do have some interesting news coming
Speaker 1: up later on the show and some of future episodes
Speaker 1: later this week. But first I want to bring in
Speaker 1: our guests. You can already see them. It's a little
Speaker 1: bit awkward because I haven't figured that that part out yet,
Speaker 1: but we have loup ucas hand don't call him Han
Speaker 1: from the two to one three Hoops Empire, which he
Speaker 1: is the proprietor and owner of We've had many of
Speaker 1: his contemporaries on, many of his co workers on this show,
Speaker 1: and it was well past due time to bring on
Speaker 1: Lucas hand. Don't call him Han here on Clippers Talk.
Speaker 1: I think from Seattle, Lucas.
Speaker 2: How we doing Portland Portland?
Speaker 1: Fuck? Oh sorry I say that either way. Uh, Portland's
Speaker 1: also start for basketball. In some ways, you could say.
Speaker 2: Right start for good basketball for shure.
Speaker 1: Right right right, Okay, let's get into this. Thanks for
Speaker 1: doing this, my friend, and I'm sorry for taking too long.
Speaker 1: The show has only been the youtubes have only been
Speaker 1: going off for like three weeks. Okay, don't get Jack, No, I.
Speaker 2: Get it you. You've been pumping out these episodes. It's
Speaker 2: been a great series. I think it's really cool for
Speaker 2: Clippers fans to be able to kind of see all
Speaker 2: the different folks creating content, covering theme from different angles
Speaker 2: one after the other on the channel. And I guess
Speaker 2: you just kind of are reaching point now where you
Speaker 2: got to scrape the bottom of the barrel and it's
Speaker 2: good to be here.
Speaker 1: How dare you? How dare you? That's where like the
Speaker 1: best buttery popcorn is the bottom of it, like, come on, man,
Speaker 1: stay with the best for last. As I told you
Speaker 1: off the air, All right, let's start with the Viza Zubots.
Speaker 1: So I did a show on this on Friday. We
Speaker 1: had a Clips and Dip with Chuck and Will. We
Speaker 1: had a live at five also, as we are part
Speaker 1: of the two point three Hoops Empire Love the jam
Speaker 1: of the podcast is where you can find Lucas hand
Speaker 1: on consistently. But a Viza Zubots gets the contract extension.
Speaker 1: I'm guessing you think it's fair value and maybe still
Speaker 1: a steal in some ways, considering he's just entering his
Speaker 1: prime and has a chance to outperform the contract.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not necessarily sure that I would that I
Speaker 2: would go steal. I think it's solid value. I think
Speaker 2: it's I think it's a good price. I think that
Speaker 2: with Paul George's departure, with what we saw from Zoo
Speaker 2: linking up with Harden and the playoffs, I think a
Speaker 2: lot of us have been saying for years now, you
Speaker 2: know Zoo's ready for a little more responsibility, a little
Speaker 2: more consistent touches. The conversion rate when he gets the
Speaker 2: ball in the post is very good. He just doesn't
Speaker 2: get a lot of those reps. So yeah, I think
Speaker 2: he's primed to keep growing into this contract and it
Speaker 2: is a pretty significant race for him. But the big
Speaker 2: thing that I think folks have to remember is the
Speaker 2: way that the NBA salary cap is going to keep
Speaker 2: increasing with the new media rights deal that the league has.
Speaker 2: It's projected that in the last year of this extension
Speaker 2: Zoo just signed, the salary cap will be one hundred
Speaker 2: and eighty seven million dollars. So we'll wait and see
Speaker 2: how the math shakes out with where they put the
Speaker 2: money and where the raises are across the years of
Speaker 2: this extension. But if he's making twenty two million in
Speaker 2: a season where the salary cap is one hundred and
Speaker 2: eighty seven million and he's as good as he is
Speaker 2: now as your starting center, that gives you a lot
Speaker 2: of flexibility to work with to build out the rest
Speaker 2: of the roster and spend money where you need to
Speaker 2: spend it.
Speaker 1: What do you think his strengths have been so far
Speaker 1: as a player in this league. He's still relatively young,
Speaker 1: he just turned he'll be twenty seven, I think throughout
Speaker 1: almost this entire season, And where do you think he
Speaker 1: needs to improve in what are the strengths and where
Speaker 1: are the weaknesses of it beats Zubats' game and what
Speaker 1: is that value They're already getting a great return on
Speaker 1: immediately just because this is who he is as a
Speaker 1: player already.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, I mean just strengths wise, He's effective
Speaker 2: as a complimentary player on the court. So when the
Speaker 2: team is playing well, Zoo tends to really thrive within
Speaker 2: his role in that defensively protecting the rim. I know
Speaker 2: he's he's a little slow footed, so it leads to
Speaker 2: some you know, just from a if you're casually watching
Speaker 2: a game, you might go, oh, man, he's kind of
Speaker 2: kind of moving a little slowly out there, right, But
Speaker 2: his positioning is good. He's a deternent at the rim
Speaker 2: and ultimately has been the key player on the clip
Speaker 2: for the Clippers defensively for a few years now. And offensively,
Speaker 2: he's efficient when he gets the basketball. He doesn't he
Speaker 2: doesn't produce a high volume, but he's official when he
Speaker 2: gets basketball. I think the real area for growth that
Speaker 2: you would look for in Zoo, especially with Paul George leaving,
Speaker 2: with James Harden and Kawhi Leonard both aging a little bit.
Speaker 2: Zoo is the number three guy on this team, and
Speaker 2: that means a little bit more leadership. And there are
Speaker 2: a couple areas where I think that leadership comes in.
Speaker 2: One is, I mean, infamously, the body language with Zoo.
Speaker 2: When things aren't going well, he tends to really you know,
Speaker 2: he gets down on himself, He looks frustrated, he flails
Speaker 2: his arms, he has a lazy play the next play,
Speaker 2: and the bad Zoo games can turn really bad because
Speaker 2: of that. And I think this is really closely connected
Speaker 2: to the other piece of this, which is, like I said,
Speaker 2: complimentary player. So he's had to play so many games
Speaker 2: as the Clippers iron man without stars in recent years,
Speaker 2: and he's talked in media availabilities about the frustration that
Speaker 2: comes with being out there every night and not knowing
Speaker 2: if Kawhi is going to be out there with him.
Speaker 2: And I think that now is the time that we
Speaker 2: saw this a little bit in this past playoffs where
Speaker 2: he can say, Okay, actually the team just gave me
Speaker 2: to twenty million dollars a year contract extension. When the
Speaker 2: other guys are out, I am the guy and it's
Speaker 2: not for me to go. Who's going to do this Actually,
Speaker 2: Zoo is going to need to take a little bit
Speaker 2: more of that on. So I think that responsibility, leadership,
Speaker 2: body language, even stamina, staying on the court, telling himself,
Speaker 2: you know, you're not a part time starter for a
Speaker 2: team that wants to go small anymore. You're the guy.
Speaker 2: So you're going to have to play thirty two plus
Speaker 2: minutes every single game. You have to be in good
Speaker 2: enough shape to do that. Those are the challenges I
Speaker 2: think in the next couple of years for Zoo.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so much as given, much as expected. I think
Speaker 1: that's a great point. I didn't bring that up on Friday.
Speaker 1: But when he does suffer with his play, it's usually
Speaker 1: connected to frustration with the referees or there's the infamous
Speaker 1: play last season of Kawhi telling him he was out
Speaker 1: of position, and he does get into his head a
Speaker 1: little bit. He's had a bettitude at times. Younger players
Speaker 1: tend to have that, but maybe overcoming that is just
Speaker 1: about being more involved consistently and being featured more. Now
Speaker 1: we seem to all believe, you know, people in this
Speaker 1: podcast network with the Clippers, how important to beats the
Speaker 1: zubots is and how coming into this season he is
Speaker 1: their third most important player. I think that should be
Speaker 1: common knowledge at this point. Is he going to be
Speaker 1: treated as such from his teammates and from the coaching
Speaker 1: staff because we're saying that, and yet he only got
Speaker 1: twenty six minutes per game last season, which was actually
Speaker 1: less than the amount of minust he had the year before.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's going to be interesting to see.
Speaker 2: I do think that the Clippers relatively this season have
Speaker 2: really weak interior depth compared to what we've seen in
Speaker 2: recent years. You know, Mobamba coming off the bench was
Speaker 2: a guy who you know, struggled to play regularly on
Speaker 2: a team that Joel Embiid spent half the season injured
Speaker 2: on right, So and then you know Kaui at fat
Speaker 2: power forward we know is going to miss time. Nico
Speaker 2: is the other power forward. We know they're going to
Speaker 2: try to manage his minutes. So I don't know how
Speaker 2: much small ball we'll see with Nico at center. Beyond that,
Speaker 2: you go, you know Kobe Brown, Kai Jones, which are
Speaker 2: real kind of speculative. You would hope for at least
Speaker 2: one of those guys to have a breakout year as
Speaker 2: a depth piece, but but you can't count on it.
Speaker 2: I think they're going to need Zoo for a heavy
Speaker 2: minutes load this year. I think that it's going I'm
Speaker 2: not sure that it's going to look very good when
Speaker 2: Zoo isn't on the court, and that probably means, you know,
Speaker 2: he can't play forty minutes a night. No one does
Speaker 2: in the NBA at this point. But yeah, he's probably
Speaker 2: going to need to play thirty two to thirty six
Speaker 2: for them to be competitive a lot of nights.
Speaker 1: So you're thinking average minutes above thirty this season somewhere
Speaker 1: in that ballpark.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thirty two. I would say thirty to thirty two.
Speaker 2: I think it has to be.
Speaker 1: I like it. I like it, and that mitigates some
Speaker 1: of the issues with the backup big position. And he
Speaker 1: did play thirty two minutes per game in that series
Speaker 1: against the Dallas Mavericks and really proved himself after what
Speaker 1: I thought was a down series the year before against
Speaker 1: the Phoenix Suns where he could have really showed out
Speaker 1: and thrived a little bit more and didn't. In fact,
Speaker 1: I think in that Game five it was Mason Plumley
Speaker 1: who made the big impact actually in the second half
Speaker 1: when they mattered that comeback. But Avita Subats has been
Speaker 1: one of my favorite players because I feel like he
Speaker 1: has been a little bit overlooked and people haven't understood
Speaker 1: the importance of him, And you bring up how it's
Speaker 1: not gonna look pretty when he's not on the court.
Speaker 1: It hasn't. For the most part. They were about three
Speaker 1: points better per one hundred possessions defensively last season the
Speaker 1: Clippers when he was on the court versus the off numbers.
Speaker 1: He has done an admirable job of being that last
Speaker 1: line of defense, and I feel like he's one of
Speaker 1: the more overlooked players in the league. Do you think
Speaker 1: he's gonna get his just dues now? They're gonna there's
Speaker 1: gonna be little bit more attention around him because I
Speaker 1: think this is that year where he could easily be
Speaker 1: on an All defensive team.
Speaker 2: Finally, I'm not sure. I don't know, just because center
Speaker 2: is such an important position defensively across the league. There's
Speaker 2: so many good defensive centers, and I think Zoo for
Speaker 2: being in the role player tier is you know, very
Speaker 2: very good. He's at kind of at the top of
Speaker 2: the role player tier of centers, but there's that all
Speaker 2: star tier of centers that you're competing with when you
Speaker 2: talk about those end of season awards, you know, Rudy Gobert,
Speaker 2: bam Adebayo, Joel Embiid, Anthony Davis, Right, I'm just not
Speaker 2: sure that you see. I don't think we'll reach a
Speaker 2: point where you start seeing some of those guys get
Speaker 2: left off of lists in Zoo's favor.
Speaker 1: Can we go over a little bit, because I have
Speaker 1: said that Abatsa Zoo Bots is already a top ten
Speaker 1: He might be ninth or ten, but I think if
Speaker 1: you go through the list, he is a top ten
Speaker 1: center currently because there just aren't that many guys that
Speaker 1: are looked at his focal points of an offense that
Speaker 1: are centers in the league anymore. There are a handful
Speaker 1: of them. And I have a list here and this
Speaker 1: is just going off of Hollinger's player efficiency rating, just
Speaker 1: to see where he lands there. Last season, he wasn't
Speaker 1: top ten there. He was eighteenth. Now it's depending upon
Speaker 1: a lot of things, but I'm just looking at your
Speaker 1: opinion and where we both might.
Speaker 2: Land on this.
Speaker 1: If I throw out a name, you tell me if
Speaker 1: this guy's better than Big Zoo, and we can see
Speaker 1: if we can find ten guys that are ahead of
Speaker 1: him at the center position, consistently at the center position.
Speaker 1: As we know nowadays, guys will move up a lot.
Speaker 1: Joe el Embiid obviously ahead of him. Yo gets you
Speaker 1: ahead of him? Chris STAPs PORZINGI, Yeah, Victor wembin Yama,
Speaker 1: you know, yes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think probably first half of the season. No,
Speaker 2: second half of the season. Yes, but you think about
Speaker 2: the going forward, it's a no brainer, right yeah.
Speaker 1: Uh Andre Drummond carl Tarts guy is three points footer marksman.
Speaker 1: Uh Andre Drummond. No, So we got four guys ahead
Speaker 1: of Big Zoo so far. Uh Mark Williams from Charlotte.
Speaker 1: No at the sixth best pr.
Speaker 2: Yeah well formula stats man, Yeah, a spreadsheet.
Speaker 1: More that coming up a little bit. Uh Shon plays subcenter,
Speaker 1: he's on the list.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a better player than Zoo.
Speaker 1: So we're going with five there. Here's an interesting one
Speaker 1: because this guy just got paid, and he got paid more.
Speaker 1: He got a bigger extension than a Visa Zoo boss.
Speaker 1: Jared Allen fear the Fro from the Cleveland Cavaliers.
Speaker 2: I think I think these guys, these two are probably
Speaker 2: a lot closer than folks think but if if you
Speaker 2: took money out of the equation and you just told
Speaker 2: me one of them is going to play for my
Speaker 2: team tonight, I would take Jared Allen.
Speaker 1: Okay, so that's six guys ahead of Zoo. The only
Speaker 1: case I would make for Zoo in this situation is
Speaker 1: how bad Jared Allen was against the New York Knicks
Speaker 1: and a physical series in the first round a couple
Speaker 1: of years ago, where he said the lights were too bright,
Speaker 1: and that quote has haunted him since. But he was
Speaker 1: better this past year. I do like Jared Allen. I
Speaker 1: think it's close.
Speaker 2: I think it's I think it's probably a lot closer
Speaker 2: than maybe your average fan of other teams would would think. Right,
Speaker 2: And I think that also, you know, think about when
Speaker 2: Zoo first got into the playoffs, right, the lights were
Speaker 2: too bright for Zoo too. He might not have just
Speaker 2: said it, but but they were. And so I think
Speaker 2: allow younger than Yeah, I think if you the Clippers
Speaker 2: have done a pretty good job of Look, you need
Speaker 2: to space the floor around a guy like Zoo, and
Speaker 2: the Evan Mobley is such a talented young player that
Speaker 2: the Cavaliers are just kind of trying to make it
Speaker 2: work but him not quite developing into a shooter and
Speaker 2: Alan being strictly around the rim guy has led to
Speaker 2: some congestion for them, which is created. I think that
Speaker 2: Zoo would have issues. This is why I've I've said,
Speaker 2: you know, at times when it's been talked about the
Speaker 2: Clippers acquiring certain guys to help out at power forward,
Speaker 2: can they play with Zoo? Is it going to be
Speaker 2: effective offensively? You know, just off the top of my head,
Speaker 2: a guy like a role player that's been talking about,
Speaker 2: guy like Jared Vanderbilt. I don't think Vando could really
Speaker 2: play the foe next to Zoo because I think it
Speaker 2: would be too easy to defend. So yeah, I mean
Speaker 2: I would, I would still I would lean Alan. I
Speaker 2: feel pretty comfortable with that.
Speaker 1: So six guys then ahead of Zoo. Currently putting Nevin
Speaker 1: Mobley in that mix. He can play some center obviously.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he primarily plays four. So we're calling I'd.
Speaker 1: Leave him out, yeah, okay, uh Daniel Gafford Zoo. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so still just six guys Capella.
Speaker 2: Zoo crushed him in the playoffs.
Speaker 1: That that should be abundantly clear to everybody. Zoo's ahead
Speaker 1: of him after what we just saw click Capella.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna take Zoo over Capella. Capella's Capella's twenty twenty
Speaker 2: four of its name value more than production.
Speaker 1: Uh Mo Wagner, he plays sub center. I don't come on. Yeah,
Speaker 1: uh they are on sharp.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna take Zoo.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Bam bauta byo bamn. There's seven okay, seven guys
Speaker 1: ahead of Zoo right now. A Clipper killer. His career
Speaker 1: high happened against the Clippers. His team typically always beats
Speaker 1: the Clippers. He is no longer with that team. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna take Zoo over foal Yonas Valancnis.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. His defense isn't there now. He's just stretch big
Speaker 1: and people are gonna point to that. Some people would say, though,
Speaker 1: that he's a better center. A lot of people would
Speaker 1: say that. I don't think they realize. Defensively, it's a
Speaker 1: no contest in favor of beats the Zoo bots well.
Speaker 2: And I think if you only watched his games against
Speaker 2: the Clippers in recent seasons, you would go, man, this
Speaker 2: this guy is like you know, Larry Bird ors like
Speaker 2: he's he's like the shooting big but like last season
Speaker 2: he shot one and a half. Three is a game
Speaker 2: at thirty one, which is not I mean he was
Speaker 2: less of a stretch big last year than Daniel Tice.
Speaker 1: Mm, that's saying something. Uh, oh, you got here Miles Turner.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a really interesting one.
Speaker 1: We're at second so far.
Speaker 2: I think Miles and Zoo are great foils three each
Speaker 2: other because they their approach to the position is so different.
Speaker 2: I'm inclined to say that before Miles Turner got Tyrese Haliburton,
Speaker 2: Zoo was the more productive player. Miles Turner playing with
Speaker 2: Tyrese Halliburton was more productive last season than Zoo was.
Speaker 2: What does that mean if you're trying to put these
Speaker 2: guys in different contexts. If the Pacers called today and
Speaker 2: said we want to trade you Turner for Zoo, I
Speaker 2: would say no. But if the Clippers called, the patients
Speaker 2: would say no. Also, this is probably this is maybe
Speaker 2: the toughest one on the list.
Speaker 1: It's a fit thing. Yeah, that's interesting. How about we
Speaker 1: say even.
Speaker 2: Doesn't I would say yeah, I would still.
Speaker 1: Just seven guys ahead of him. They may fall in
Speaker 1: the exact same spot, and that is a tough one.
Speaker 1: This one may not be so tough.
Speaker 2: Rudy Gobert, it's Rudy for all his flaws. Again going
Speaker 2: back to what we're saying about with Alan, right, if
Speaker 2: you're talking about production for the contract, but if you're
Speaker 2: just saying we're picking a team we're playing tonight, you know,
Speaker 2: it's hard to argue with Rudy.
Speaker 1: DeAndre.
Speaker 2: What's the weather like.
Speaker 1: If you talk about it beats the Zoo bots being
Speaker 1: moody and having bad body language earlier. Now we come
Speaker 1: to DeAndre.
Speaker 2: If it's an icy day, I'm taking Zoo.
Speaker 1: But I'll take I just know what I'm getting more.
Speaker 2: I think you know what you're getting more. You know. Again,
Speaker 2: I'm here in this kind of context situation where it's like,
Speaker 2: if I have a good team and I need to
Speaker 2: win a game tonight, I'm taking Zoo. But if I
Speaker 2: was had an expansion team starting today, I would probably
Speaker 2: take Ayton, you know better.
Speaker 1: For a situation like Portland.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think it was you know, it was
Speaker 2: just a year ago when the Suns traded Aighton to
Speaker 2: Portland that Rob and I were both kind of in
Speaker 2: agreement that, you know, if you could put together that
Speaker 2: Eric Gordon contract that the Clippers ended up releasing, and
Speaker 2: and Zoo and some package to get the talent upgrade
Speaker 2: and get younger with Ayton that even for the pitfalls,
Speaker 2: you kind of have to do it. The year in
Speaker 2: Portland really didn't go well for DeAndre. I mean I
Speaker 2: saw it up close. You know, a handful of times
Speaker 2: the motor's not there, you know, But how much of
Speaker 2: that is I would say at this point, I think
Speaker 2: I would lean Zoo, but I'm I'm still not all
Speaker 2: the way out on eight even though I know I
Speaker 2: know a lot of people are.
Speaker 1: I agree with that, So we stick with eight guys
Speaker 1: currently ahead of Big Zoo on the list. Here's a
Speaker 1: good one. He just got paid as and Asaiah Hartenstein,
Speaker 1: former Clipper, I predicted, you go, okay, see it is
Speaker 1: gonna be a problem. They're gonna win sixty games.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think they're gonna be the number one seed again.
Speaker 2: I think based on last season heading into next season,
Speaker 2: Hartenstein is the more productive of the two players. Zoo
Speaker 2: has a has a more consistent track record of health
Speaker 2: and lower downside in terms of things with Hartenstein that
Speaker 2: you worry about, like the foul rate that can keep
Speaker 2: him out of games. Right, So again, if we were
Speaker 2: projecting forward, like for three years, I think Hartenstein is
Speaker 2: a much bigger question marks who is a much more
Speaker 2: stable guy. But if we're saying, you know, the top
Speaker 2: ten centers in the NBA last season, Hartenstein would would
Speaker 2: edge Zoo out on the list, I.
Speaker 1: Think, And basically we're saying, who would you rather have today?
Speaker 2: Hmm.
Speaker 1: That's there's a case to be made for Hartenstein, clearly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but.
Speaker 1: It's not in the landslide. It's really close. We could
Speaker 1: we could call it even again, or you could say
Speaker 1: hard and Stein above him and that would make nine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I'm gonna say, uh, I'm gonna I'm
Speaker 2: gonna say, still a slight edge to Zoo.
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, it remains eight guys in fron can I
Speaker 1: defense has a larger body of work.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'll say for for the for how good
Speaker 2: he was in New York last year, right starting a lot,
Speaker 2: playing twenty five minutes a game. Obviously, he has some
Speaker 2: versatility as a passer that that eludes Zoo still. But
Speaker 2: you know, the average last year for Hartenstegin was eight
Speaker 2: and eight. He had big moments, He played well in
Speaker 2: the playoffs. He stepped into a role with with Mitchell Robinson,
Speaker 2: injured and produced well late in the season, but we
Speaker 2: still are you know, we just haven't seen the like,
Speaker 2: is this guy going to average a double double over
Speaker 2: a full season as the team's go to guy? Is
Speaker 2: he going to stay healthy, He's going to play Minutes's
Speaker 2: he going to avoid fouls? I think there's enough question
Speaker 2: marks there that that I still would lean Zoo, but
Speaker 2: it wouldn't surprise me. I wouldn't be surprised to see
Speaker 2: both guys play, you know, seventy five games this year
Speaker 2: in their respective roles, and Hartenstein being more productive.
Speaker 1: And I think if Eats Zubos is the type of
Speaker 1: player with the bag that he has on the block,
Speaker 1: that would have an easier time getting to fifteen point
Speaker 1: a game average than Isaiah Hartenstein, who has a really
Speaker 1: good floater. But then a lot of it's dependent on
Speaker 1: him getting the basketball in the right spots and being
Speaker 1: more of a rim runner, where Eats Zubots could I
Speaker 1: soo a little bit more and give you more down
Speaker 1: in the painted area their offensive games. Zoo's just a
Speaker 1: little more refined, but it's closed.
Speaker 2: Zoo's definitely more refined as a as a throw it
Speaker 2: into him in the post option I think Hartenstein is
Speaker 2: more refined as a as a role man because of
Speaker 2: that floater. But also his passing ability is clear of Zoo's.
Speaker 2: So it's you know, kind of system dependent. But yeah,
Speaker 2: that's a it's a tight one. But I would I
Speaker 2: would actually lean Zoo still. I think Hertenstein, for all
Speaker 2: the hype, you know, was an eight and eight guy
Speaker 2: last year, not a not a fifteen to twelve guy.
Speaker 1: So we're at eight guys right, eight guys in front
Speaker 1: of Zoo, clearly in front of Zoo. Uh yaka peerl
Speaker 1: Zoo Now, Carl Anthony Towns?
Speaker 2: Are we calling him? Are we calling him a five?
Speaker 1: I know I don't want to because do you Gobert
Speaker 1: is there?
Speaker 2: He does? He hasn't been playing center for two years.
Speaker 1: Nick Claxton, and I'm going to Zoo right now for sure.
Speaker 2: Claxton, I think is really interesting.
Speaker 1: But Zoo, Jalen darn.
Speaker 2: Again. You know, if we were building a team for
Speaker 2: you know, an expansion team and we're trying to set
Speaker 2: up for a longer window, you know, you Duran is
Speaker 2: a really promising young guy. Zoo right now is the
Speaker 2: guy who has been starting on playoff teams. I think
Speaker 2: you feel just a little more comfortable with, you know,
Speaker 2: especially that high floor defensively in terms of what he
Speaker 2: can provide. But this is a this is a tough one.
Speaker 2: I mean again, I'll say it. I think what I've
Speaker 2: said a few times, which is, if you if I
Speaker 2: need to win a game tonight, or if I'm saying,
Speaker 2: you know, who's going to be the better center in
Speaker 2: this upcoming season, I'll take Zoo. But if I was
Speaker 2: if I was drafting an expansion team, I would take
Speaker 2: Duraan hands down.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not clear cut. It needs to be clearly
Speaker 1: this guy is better or else Ty goes to big,
Speaker 1: big Zoo. I guess in this situation, here's some good ones.
Speaker 1: Derek Lively, Zoo.
Speaker 2: I like Lively a lot, but Zoo.
Speaker 1: Big upside, Walker Kessler, M.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Kessler, Kesler. I feel like the hype kind of
Speaker 2: cooled a little bit after kind of bursting onto the scene.
Speaker 2: Replacement Rudy Gobert putting up you know, kind of similar
Speaker 2: block numbers and on off defense numbers. I would go
Speaker 2: Zoo over Kessler, although I think Kessler's another guy I
Speaker 2: think is intriguing going forward.
Speaker 1: Nikolabusovich. No, that guy sinks use of Nurkic. No, Nick Richards, No,
Speaker 1: it's it's a Mitchell Robinson. There was a time.
Speaker 2: Are we taking health? Are what are we saying about health?
Speaker 1: Let's let's say they're healthy, because I don't think he's
Speaker 1: had I know he hasn't been the iron Man Zoo Whiz,
Speaker 1: but outside this past season, he's been healthy for the
Speaker 1: most part.
Speaker 2: Mitchell Robinson, I think that these are these are guys
Speaker 2: who are probably in uh the same, you know, a
Speaker 2: really similar tier. But I would I would lean Zoo
Speaker 2: for durability and uh, you know, I think just a
Speaker 2: little more a little higher floor defensively in terms of
Speaker 2: what he does for a team.
Speaker 1: And I spoke too soon. Mitchell Robinson only played fifty
Speaker 1: nine games last season. A couple of years before that
Speaker 1: it was just thirty one. So the durability point is, uh,
Speaker 1: it's a good one here.
Speaker 2: And if the Knicks, if the Knicks called the Clippers
Speaker 2: and offered that, I would say no. Yeah, And I
Speaker 2: think I think if the Clippers called, I think the
Speaker 2: Knicks would take it.
Speaker 1: What if the Milwaukee Bucks called an Offord brook Lopez.
Speaker 2: You know I would say no because age, you know,
Speaker 2: you just can't quite get past that with especially with
Speaker 2: the extension that they just got Zo on on the
Speaker 2: price that they just got him on. You know, you
Speaker 2: have you know, and whatever if he's top ten or not, right,
Speaker 2: but you know, you have a good, above average starting
Speaker 2: center locked in at a reasonable price for the next
Speaker 2: four seasons. Brook Lopez isn't going to be in the
Speaker 2: NBA for four more seasons.
Speaker 1: Yeah he's thirty six. Al Horford, no, no, you love
Speaker 1: Al Horford, but but yeah, Mobaba on the Mason Plumby
Speaker 1: is in Phoenix and we saw that. What no, Carter Junior, Yeah, that's.
Speaker 2: An interesting one.
Speaker 1: I would thought about him in a while.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, uh huh, we think about I think Wendell
Speaker 2: is one of those guys that at a certain point
Speaker 2: looked like he could be on a trajectory towards being,
Speaker 2: you know, pretty clearly higher on this list, and I
Speaker 2: think has settled in more so into that role player tier.
Speaker 2: What he does bring you is just a little more versatility.
Speaker 2: The shooting is real there, you know, three attempts a game,
Speaker 2: thirty seven percent from deep, but the rebounding and interior
Speaker 2: defense are not quite at the level that Zoo is
Speaker 2: there's not quite the same track record there of first
Speaker 2: of all, durability, which we just talked about. I mean,
Speaker 2: he's never played more than sixty two games in a
Speaker 2: season in six years and Zoo's track records. Is being
Speaker 2: a durable starter on a playoff team, I think I
Speaker 2: would I would still go Zoo, But Wendell is a
Speaker 2: nice player. I think they're in the same tier. Zoo
Speaker 2: is just ranked higher in that tier for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's one of those guys in the mix next
Speaker 1: to Zoo, but he's not obviously clearing him. Eleven and
Speaker 1: seven last season, he played about twenty six minutes per game,
Speaker 1: just like Zoo. But as you mentioned, it looked like
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago when he was getting fifteen
Speaker 1: and eleven, he was on the fast track to passing
Speaker 1: zoue Bye, that did not happen. Wiseman No, No Dwight Powell,
Speaker 1: no daniel tys Now, Jackson Hayes, no Tristan Thompson, no
Speaker 1: Isaiah Stewart.
Speaker 2: Hardcore, But is Anthony Davis the center for you?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll put him in there because.
Speaker 2: Because he might you know, I know, he might show
Speaker 2: up on as a power forward on some lists. But
Speaker 2: I kind of think of him as a center now.
Speaker 1: They honestly didn't put him on this list, but I
Speaker 1: when they're at their best, he's playing center.
Speaker 2: So yeah, he's best at center. Their best with him
Speaker 2: at center, and I think that, you know, in the
Speaker 2: last couple of years, they've leaned into that a lot more.
Speaker 2: I mean, just looking at at Basketball Reference, you know,
Speaker 2: one hundred percent of his minutes two seasons ago, ninety
Speaker 2: seven percent of its minutes last season at center. So
Speaker 2: I would put him there, and he obviously would be
Speaker 2: clear of Sue as well.
Speaker 1: So Zoo is tenth, with a few guys next to
Speaker 1: him that you could lean towards different strokes for different folks,
Speaker 1: different situations. You might want them over beat to Zoo bots,
Speaker 1: but he clearly is right there for having an argument
Speaker 1: for being a top ten center in the NBA.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you don't want.
Speaker 1: To hear it.
Speaker 2: Guys, if you base based on that list that we
Speaker 2: just did, if you were to say, you know, I
Speaker 2: think you could reasonably put Zoo ten, eleven, twelve, maybe thirteen.
Speaker 2: There are a few guys there that I think, you know,
Speaker 2: like a guy like Miles Turner, I know a lot
Speaker 2: of folks, you know, see shooting and just can't look
Speaker 2: at anything else that doesn't happen on the court. But
Speaker 2: uh yeah, I mean I think I think if you
Speaker 2: told me, and if you told me before we start with,
Speaker 2: you're like, yeah, Zoo's probably like between tenth and fifteenth.
Speaker 2: That feels like a comfortable range to me. He's solid.
Speaker 2: He's an above average starter, but he's not in that
Speaker 2: elite tier. He's not going to compete for All Star appearances.
Speaker 2: And you know, at under twenty million dollars a year
Speaker 2: average annual value, with the way that the salary cap
Speaker 2: is going, that's a I wouldn't call it a steal,
Speaker 2: but I would say it's a solid value.
Speaker 1: You may want Miles Turner over him. You may want
Speaker 1: Isaiah Hartenstein, you may want Walker Castler, Wendell Carter, these guys,
Speaker 1: Jalen Duran, you know, but Zoo's right there. He's right there,
Speaker 1: and for this Clippers team, I think he made some
Speaker 1: good points for this team where they're at. And I
Speaker 1: am intrigued when we talk about it beats the Zubats
Speaker 1: getting the ball and going to work. I think what
Speaker 1: he's showed in that series against the Dallas Mavericks was
Speaker 1: illuminating for some people. I've been saying for years, you
Speaker 1: can tell me if I'm crazy, Lucas, but he has
Speaker 1: far more skill level than anybody realizes. He is a
Speaker 1: long lost Gas Saul brother at times, like what he
Speaker 1: was doing with the left hand in game one of
Speaker 1: that series against Dallas where he was their best player
Speaker 1: in game one. I don't think people understand Zoo really
Speaker 1: is a bucket if you give him the opportunity.
Speaker 2: And if he can handle that workload with more consistency,
Speaker 2: I think, right, like, we have to acknowledge that a
Speaker 2: lot of times, guys, every NBA player, I mean we've
Speaker 2: how many guys have we seen have thirty point games
Speaker 2: and not be in the league the next year? Right,
Speaker 2: every NBA player has a skill level to get to
Speaker 2: that point. But can you get to that skill level
Speaker 2: consistently when opposition knows that you're the guy they need
Speaker 2: to prepare for. Right, So for you to have a
Speaker 2: big twenty twenty game is great. I'm not saying that
Speaker 2: he that we should expect him to be consistently at
Speaker 2: twenty twenty, but if he's going to have those types
Speaker 2: of games, like, however, many games last year. I would
Speaker 2: have to look through and be like, how many games
Speaker 2: were like Zoo games? Right? Maybe five? Well, if we
Speaker 2: want him to have twenty games that are Zoo games,
Speaker 2: that's going to mean more minutes, more workload, and he's
Speaker 2: going to show up more on scouting reports, which means
Speaker 2: teams are gonna there's less likely that he's going to
Speaker 2: catch a team sleeping with Oh you know, yeah funnel
Speaker 2: let them throw the ball in the post, right. I
Speaker 2: think a lot of teams right now say yeah, if
Speaker 2: they're gonna throw it into zoo, let him throw it
Speaker 2: into zoo. That means we don't have to worry about James,
Speaker 2: we don't have to worry about Kauai. And even though
Speaker 2: he's efficient in those moments everyone gets to stand and
Speaker 2: breathe for fifteen seconds, they're only going to do it
Speaker 2: three times a game anyway, right, So we're not gonna
Speaker 2: lose on it to be more like no this, We're
Speaker 2: actually gonna keep feeding him. He's gonna mayhap manage that workload,
Speaker 2: maintain his efficiency, force defenses to adjust to him. That
Speaker 2: is a really big next step.
Speaker 1: So we went through the list. We said, there's definitively
Speaker 1: nine guys ahead of Zoo and a handful of guys
Speaker 1: in the mix with him. To close out the Zoo
Speaker 1: talk here, Lucas, how many points is going to average
Speaker 1: this season? How many boards is he going to get?
Speaker 1: Or where does he need to be you think? And
Speaker 1: what's realistic for this Clippers team to be successful and
Speaker 1: to have a chance to stay out of the play in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think that well, to stay out
Speaker 2: of the play and it's going to be tough, you know,
Speaker 2: And I'm not sure right staying out of the play
Speaker 2: in has a lot more to do with how many
Speaker 2: games Kawhi Leonard plays than whether Zoo is at fourteen
Speaker 2: points a game or sixteen points a game.
Speaker 1: You know, But say, if I give you sixty Kawhi
Speaker 1: games sixty five plus from James Harden, then what does
Speaker 1: Zoo need to contribute enough to keep him out?
Speaker 2: Yeah? You know, well, the biggest the first thing is
Speaker 2: the minutes, right, which we already talked about, because it's
Speaker 2: one thing to say, you know, what's he going to
Speaker 2: average per game? But they need his presence on the
Speaker 2: court for thirty two plus minutes a game and that
Speaker 2: will lead to higher per game averages. Right, Because he's
Speaker 2: playing more minutes, he has more opportunities to do things.
Speaker 2: Last season, he averaged sixteen points and twelve and a
Speaker 2: half rebounds per thirty six minutes. So if he can
Speaker 2: play thirty two minutes a game and average sixteen points
Speaker 2: and twelve rebounds, that would be a phenomenal season for
Speaker 2: Vitza Zubots. If he can average sixteen points and twelve
Speaker 2: rebounds in thirty two minutes, I think you would that's
Speaker 2: a high end outcome. I think you would look back
Speaker 2: on that at the end of the year and say
Speaker 2: we could not possibly have asked him for anything more.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I think that's a good way to put it.
Speaker 1: And I'm I'm predicting about sixteen and eleven, seventeen and
Speaker 1: ten somewhere in there. I think it's within the realm
Speaker 1: of possibility.
Speaker 2: Fifteen and twelve would be kind of my my benchmark,
Speaker 2: you know. It's just it's a it's the minutes, right,
Speaker 2: because if he only plays twenty eight minutes a game,
Speaker 2: he's not going to average fifteen and twelve, And then
Speaker 2: you're starting looking cool. Can he average fourteen and ten?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: But if he plays thirty two minutes a game, you know,
Speaker 2: fifteen and eleven, right, That's that's right around where I
Speaker 2: would be be looking.
Speaker 1: And I have faith if you give him the minutes,
Speaker 1: he'll give you the production. It's yet to be proven
Speaker 1: because he's never gotten the consistent minutes. And therefore, when
Speaker 1: we talk about Big Zoo being inconsistent at times, and
Speaker 1: we talk about the up and down play, some of
Speaker 1: it's built in just because he doesn't know his role
Speaker 1: that night. I'm interested to see what conversations they're going
Speaker 1: to have behind the scenes coming into this season of
Speaker 1: what the expectations are from the coaching staff for Eats
Speaker 1: the Zoo Bots. But we can move on from that,
Speaker 1: and this kind of ties in a little bit. We
Speaker 1: talked about it a little bit off the air, but
Speaker 1: I was having a conversation with somebody last night. You
Speaker 1: mentioned it Eats the Zoo Bots and just his production
Speaker 1: going up because he gets the minutes. Because a few
Speaker 1: people said, yikes, almost twenty million a year with this
Speaker 1: extension for a guy that is averaged nine to seven.
Speaker 1: When you look at his career numbers and it's like, dude,
Speaker 1: that's off of twenty one minutes per game. That's that's
Speaker 1: not indicative of who he is today or who he
Speaker 1: can be if you give him more minutes. It's pretty meaningless, actually,
Speaker 1: But that is a basic traditional stat that people are
Speaker 1: looking at and evaluating a player off of. And then
Speaker 1: last night I have a conversation with the guy something
Speaker 1: totally non Clippers related, and this made me think of you,
Speaker 1: because I think you're very articulate about these things and
Speaker 1: you have a great basketball mind. But we were talking
Speaker 1: about goat conversations. Of course, it was on X and
Speaker 1: somebody brought up Kobe Bryant, and it was a conversation
Speaker 1: with Gilbert Arenez, who says a lot of wild stuff
Speaker 1: for attention, but I think in this particular subject matter,
Speaker 1: he actually made a good point that I agree with
Speaker 1: and I've been saying for a while. Kobe mimicked second
Speaker 1: three PT MJ. Those moves, his post moves. That's the
Speaker 1: MJ that Kobe was studying, and that's the guy who
Speaker 1: he looked like throughout most of his career, as opposed
Speaker 1: to eighties Jordan through the first three Peat, which was
Speaker 1: a much more athletic player, springy. He had explosiveness at
Speaker 1: times that Russell Westbrook has had in this league. Okay,
Speaker 1: put that aside, But then the guy said, you know, well,
Speaker 1: Kobe Bryant shot five percent less with his overall career
Speaker 1: fueld goal percentage than Michael Jordan. So he was saying,
Speaker 1: this is a Jordan decide. He's not even close to him.
Speaker 1: And I brought up the point that well, field goal
Speaker 1: percentage is almost an antiquated way to look at the
Speaker 1: overall numbers and productivity because it has three point percentage
Speaker 1: built in. And Kobe took far more threes than mj
Speaker 1: did and actually shot about four or five percent better
Speaker 1: from beyond the arc, even though he wasn't great at it,
Speaker 1: just thirty two percent. The volume was there, and the
Speaker 1: volume is very meaningful. And if you look at points
Speaker 1: per shot attempt or points per possession, they're closer true
Speaker 1: shooting percentage effective field goal percentage. They're much closer than
Speaker 1: you might realize when it comes to how good they
Speaker 1: were A scorers efficiency was how do you help people
Speaker 1: understand arguments like this, because I could really never get
Speaker 1: through to the guy. He could never understand why teams
Speaker 1: take more threes and he's talking about the only team
Speaker 1: that has been successful and won championships with a bunch
Speaker 1: of threes. Would be Steph Curry with the Golden State Warriors. Like, Hello,
Speaker 1: the Boston Celtics just won taking the most threes in
Speaker 1: the league. And every team that does win now is
Speaker 1: taking far more threes than they ever did ten years ago,
Speaker 1: fifteen years ago, thirty years ago. It's incredible because of
Speaker 1: the math.
Speaker 2: It's not even just every team that wins, it's every team, right, yeah,
Speaker 2: like everyone is taking more threes than they took ten
Speaker 2: years ago. And you know, I mean, I how you
Speaker 2: explain it to someone who you know doesn't doesn't understand
Speaker 2: the math is challenging, But it's just I really think
Speaker 2: that for me, when I really started souring on the
Speaker 2: mid range game. And I'm not sour on the mid
Speaker 2: range game, I mean I was, you know, I was
Speaker 2: a pick and roll point guard and the mid range
Speaker 2: pull up is part of what you have to do
Speaker 2: to make those reads over the course of the game.
Speaker 2: But you take it, take it out of the context
Speaker 2: of is this a good shot? Right, It's not about
Speaker 2: this shot, this shooter on this possession in a rhythm
Speaker 2: opened the way that it's not about this shot. It's
Speaker 2: about one hundred shots, and how many of those one
Speaker 2: hundred shots do you need to make for it to
Speaker 2: be good for the game, right, for your offense to
Speaker 2: produce enough over the course of the game. And it
Speaker 2: breaks down to, you know, point per possession. And if
Speaker 2: you are shooting, a great mid range shooter might make
Speaker 2: forty five percent of their eighteen foot pull ups. That's
Speaker 2: a great mid.
Speaker 1: Range shot, like Coli is at forty seven percent for
Speaker 1: his career from ten to sixteen feet out. For example,
Speaker 1: Jordan was great in the mid range.
Speaker 2: A lot of guys who are considered like good mid
Speaker 2: range shooters, like you know, a guy like Jamal Crawford
Speaker 2: in his prime was shooting you know, thirty eight forty
Speaker 2: forty two depending.
Speaker 1: On the year was at slow was that forty one
Speaker 1: percent for his career And everybody thinks he's some mid
Speaker 1: range god because it looks pretty when they go in.
Speaker 2: Well and volume, right, because ultimately mid range shots are
Speaker 2: going to be they're the ones that you get stuck
Speaker 2: in latent possession, high difficulty looks, and so you know,
Speaker 2: being able to kind of pull a rabbit out of
Speaker 2: a hat is or to do it in isolation against
Speaker 2: the post when the defense is locked in, right that
Speaker 2: there's there's a lot of value to guys who can
Speaker 2: do it. We see the best players in the NBA
Speaker 2: still are really proficient at it. But if a guy
Speaker 2: shooting forty five percent, which is elite, over one hundred shots,
Speaker 2: that means you're generating zero point nine points per possession
Speaker 2: on those hundred shots. If a guy is shooting thirty
Speaker 2: five percent from three, which is you know, for a
Speaker 2: long time was kind of considered the marker of average,
Speaker 2: and now because of the way the three point game has
Speaker 2: moved on, is actually kind of below average for a
Speaker 2: premier player in the NBA. Right, thirty five percent to go,
Speaker 2: he's not really a shooter. That guy is producing one
Speaker 2: point zero five points per possession. So if we play
Speaker 2: one hundred possession game back and forth, which most NBA
Speaker 2: games are a little less than that, Right, but I'm
Speaker 2: gonna beat you one hundred and five to ninety, and
Speaker 2: it's gonna take a lot of variance. Bad shooting night
Speaker 2: for me, good shooting night for you, you could win. But
Speaker 2: fifteen points is a big gap to close. So it's
Speaker 2: just about adjusting that diet. Like I said, you still
Speaker 2: need to take those mid range shots to keep the
Speaker 2: defense honest. You're still gonna be forced into some laden possessions,
Speaker 2: right or when the defense it takes away your primary
Speaker 2: choice or whatever, you're still gonna need them. That skill
Speaker 2: set is still important, but you want to look for
Speaker 2: other things. And what happens when you when you prioritize
Speaker 2: trying to create those more efficient shots and the league
Speaker 2: learns and adjusts to that, you're actually going to get
Speaker 2: higher quality midrange looks than you were before because the
Speaker 2: three point shot is being overplayed, and that's where you
Speaker 2: start to have a chance to then get even more
Speaker 2: efficient and shoot in those high forties or even into
Speaker 2: the fifties sometimes from mid range. Whereas when you're a
Speaker 2: guy's who's going to go, you know, dribble, dribble, crossover,
Speaker 2: pick and roll, pull up, contested eighteen footer, that's going
Speaker 2: to just be thirty eight percent the whole time.
Speaker 1: That's a really smart, easily digestible way to put it.
Speaker 1: I've always said, for instance, going back to the argument
Speaker 1: with Kobe taking more threes than MJ and how that
Speaker 1: factors into field goal percentage, why you shot five percent less?
Speaker 1: You know, I told the guy. Look at it this way.
Speaker 1: If you're shooting thirty three percent from three, that would
Speaker 1: be considered bad, and that's where about Kobe was at
Speaker 1: throughout his career. But that's also the equivalent thirty three
Speaker 1: point three percent from three of shooting fifty percent from two.
Speaker 1: So even when you're shooting almost three percent less the
Speaker 1: league average from three, it still isn't that bad of
Speaker 1: a shot over you know, so many taken with the volume.
Speaker 1: Because the Boston Celtics, that's exactly what they shot in
Speaker 1: the NBA Finals, thirty three percent from three. They weren't
Speaker 1: even shooting a great percentage, and they still ended that
Speaker 1: series in five because they took sixty more threes than
Speaker 1: the Dallas Mavericks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I would say, you know, you can just
Speaker 2: look at two point percentage too, right, Like Jordan was
Speaker 2: fifty one percent on twos in his career. And again,
Speaker 2: when I say you know, forty five PERCENTAGEGA, I'm talking
Speaker 2: about mid range specifically, not all twos, because obviously layups
Speaker 2: and dunks are going to be higher. Kobe was forty
Speaker 2: eight percent on twos in his career, So that's still
Speaker 2: that three percent gap on that diet of shots over
Speaker 2: over twenty thousand shots over a decade career for both guys.
Speaker 2: That's that three percent gap is significant.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I was trying to say Kobe was as
Speaker 1: good as MJ. Like, I'm just saying it's closer than
Speaker 1: you realize when it comes to efficiency.
Speaker 2: But the yeah, the that's one of the things. You look.
Speaker 2: You see a lot of guards in the NBA. Now,
Speaker 2: sometimes you go and you look at a guard who
Speaker 2: is shooting, you know, forty one percent from the field,
Speaker 2: and you're initially actually like, oh god, forty one percent
Speaker 2: from this guy is so inefficient, and then you realize, well,
Speaker 2: actually he's shooting thirty eight percent from three and forty
Speaker 2: eight percent from two, which is totally good. He just
Speaker 2: takes five times as many threes as he does too, Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: Seven of his ten shots per game or threes.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, you know, the best guy to talk
Speaker 2: to about this would be uh Shane Young, who is
Speaker 2: just obsessed with not using field goal percentage in anything anymore.
Speaker 2: He's like leading the crusade.
Speaker 1: I've agree with him. I don't know if I agree
Speaker 1: with him about all the CP three stuff he says,
Speaker 1: or I do agree with the sphex I was turning
Speaker 1: into the San Antonio Spurs. That didn't happen. But we've
Speaker 1: had taken our lamps with the Clippers. Yeah, I just
Speaker 1: it is. It's antiquated now. In the playoffs, things slowed down,
Speaker 1: and Kawhi has talked about this, but they use examples
Speaker 1: of the best guys ever in the mid range. It's like, well,
Speaker 1: that's not who ninety nine point nine percent of the
Speaker 1: league is. So that's not a real good reason for
Speaker 1: taking more of those shots. If you're really elite at it,
Speaker 1: yes you should take them, because in the playoffs often
Speaker 1: they're giving up those shots. And Kawhi has mentioned that
Speaker 1: before that they're giving him the mid range and he
Speaker 1: studied MJ, and MJ was a mid range god and Kobe,
Speaker 1: I think part of the reason this two point percentage
Speaker 1: is three percent less than than MJ's is by other point,
Speaker 1: was Kobe actually had more moves than MJ. Because he
Speaker 1: took all of MJ's and then built his own two.
Speaker 1: They weren't necessarily a sufficient and he took way more
Speaker 1: bad shots out there. And he's probably the best bad
Speaker 1: shot takers, either him or Kyrie, because once in a
Speaker 1: while they would go in and it would look amazing,
Speaker 1: but he also took so many unnecessary shots. So that's
Speaker 1: that's how you get the feel goal percentage also going down.
Speaker 1: But I just yeah, it's it's an interesting conversation just
Speaker 1: trying to convert people and make them understand the modern
Speaker 1: game a little bit more, and how do you do
Speaker 1: so without sounding like a d bag and a stat
Speaker 1: nerd And then they'll just go back to well, winsord
Speaker 1: losses and that's all that matters, or six rings and
Speaker 1: things like this. It's it's it's a tough environment on
Speaker 1: Twitter sometimes lucas all the time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, my advice would be spend less time
Speaker 2: on Twitter.
Speaker 1: Oh that's that's a salient point too, that that simplifies
Speaker 1: it distills it down to something really simple. Uh, should
Speaker 1: Paul George stay off of Twitter? I heard that he's
Speaker 1: off of social media on Instagram. I wasn't sure if
Speaker 1: that was true or not. I know podcast p as
Speaker 1: a heavy presence on Twitter with his guys there too.
Speaker 1: The social media guru.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the guru with anytime you have a guru,
Speaker 2: you know, I want.
Speaker 1: To ask you about Paul George because you've been on record.
Speaker 1: I think the last time he came on Clips and
Speaker 1: Dip you called him, what.
Speaker 2: Was the word loser?
Speaker 1: A loser, Yeah, loser. I wanted you to expand and
Speaker 1: expound on that and why you would say such a
Speaker 1: flammatory language about Paul George and what you mean by that,
Speaker 1: and give you the opportunity to explain, because it's not
Speaker 1: like you're the only guy who has said that over
Speaker 1: the years.
Speaker 2: Sure. Yeah, but but I'll just uh, I'll start by saying,
Speaker 2: you know, the people are on my side, Adam, I
Speaker 2: don't need to I don't need to defend my.
Speaker 1: I'm learning, I've learning.
Speaker 2: I would here's here's what I would say. It's there's
Speaker 2: loser in the literal sense of like, hasn't won a championship, right,
Speaker 2: And I think that that is tends to be a
Speaker 2: really cheap way to talk about basketball and about the NBA,
Speaker 2: because you know, like, is Jamal Murray a winner? Yeah? Right,
Speaker 2: I mean it's hard to say he is. It sure
Speaker 2: got lucky with that situation with Jokic in Denver, though, right,
Speaker 2: I think there's lots of other guys who aren't anymore
Speaker 2: or less. They're not they're not necessarily, Jamal is not
Speaker 2: necessarily a better player than them. He's I'm not saying
Speaker 2: Jamal is a bad player, that he's not a high
Speaker 2: character guy. I'm saying there's lots of other really good
Speaker 2: players with really high character who didn't end up drafted
Speaker 2: to Denver.
Speaker 1: With Yokic, that's often circumstantial.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so you know, just to say, oh, he
Speaker 2: hasn't won a title, I mean, Paul George has done
Speaker 2: a lot of winning in his career, just not in
Speaker 2: the NBA finals. What I think more, what I mean
Speaker 2: by that is he does not take responsibility, either in
Speaker 2: the moment or after the fact. He's not honest about
Speaker 2: him He's not honest with himself. He's not honest about himself.
Speaker 2: He blames others. And then when he's in the moment
Speaker 2: and you need someone to be the guy, he doesn't
Speaker 2: want it. And that, to me is the is the indictment.
Speaker 2: The going into this series, this past series withou Kawhi
Speaker 2: Leonard and saying, yeah, James, you go guard Kyrie. I'm
Speaker 2: gonna guard Derek Jones Junior. That is what I'm talking about, right,
Speaker 2: or going into these games where he takes seven field
Speaker 2: goal attempts or where he just he puts up these
Speaker 2: mid range shots and then never gets to the rim. Never.
Speaker 2: It seems like he's always waiting for someone else right
Speaker 2: to do it. And you look around these other stars
Speaker 2: in the NBA. They take matters into their own hands,
Speaker 2: and maybe it's not pretty. Maybe, you know, maybe they
Speaker 2: have a bad game, maybe they turn the ball over,
Speaker 2: maybe they lose because the other team was better, but
Speaker 2: they really go out there and play for it. And
Speaker 2: it feels like Paul is content to say, yeah, Terrence,
Speaker 2: let's see what you got. It's like, no, man, you
Speaker 2: have to be the guy. And there were moments in
Speaker 2: Paul George's Clipper tenure where he was the guy, where
Speaker 2: he really stepped into that twenty twenty one Western Conference
Speaker 2: Finals run. Right, he was not, you know, the first
Speaker 2: I don't love saying Paul George carried the Clippers of
Speaker 2: the Western Conference Finals because we all, we all watched
Speaker 2: that first round series. You know, Kawhi Leonard was superhuman
Speaker 2: in the late games against Dallas to make them to
Speaker 2: get them out of that hole and into the second
Speaker 2: round against Utah. But honestly, even though the Clippers lost
Speaker 2: that Western Conference Final, series to the Suns, And I
Speaker 2: don't know what his field goal percentage was or whatever,
Speaker 2: but Paul George was a leader in those games. He
Speaker 2: took responsibility, he shouldered the workload, he made things happen.
Speaker 2: He really he knew that if it wasn't him, it
Speaker 2: wasn't going to happen, and he went out there and
Speaker 2: did everything he could to make sure it was him.
Speaker 2: And in the three years since then, he just hasn't
Speaker 2: had that approach. And every year it's a complaint about, well,
Speaker 2: we didn't have this point guard, or we didn't have
Speaker 2: that coach, or we were running too many of these plays,
Speaker 2: and it's meant I just like, stop talking, go get
Speaker 2: the basketball and show everyone how good you are. I
Speaker 2: don't I think Paul George is a tremendous basketball player,
Speaker 2: but I don't think the mentality has been there since
Speaker 2: that Western Conference Finals run that is necessary for him
Speaker 2: to be a star player on a winning team. Maybe
Speaker 2: a change of scenery, new coach, new co stars, new city,
Speaker 2: maybe that will will reawaken that a little bit in him.
Speaker 2: But it wasn't happening here. And I was just left
Speaker 2: by the end of this season just so disappointed. And
Speaker 2: by the way that he approached his responsibility as a star,
Speaker 2: as a professional, as a leader. I found all of
Speaker 2: it to be lacking.
Speaker 1: I use the twenty twenty and one run as a
Speaker 1: shield for a while from criticism on Paul George, but
Speaker 1: there was nothing I could defend after this last playoff
Speaker 1: series against Dallas. It was willfully inadequate for the requirements
Speaker 1: of being a star. His performance or lack thereof. It
Speaker 1: was tough, and the clothes were tough too, and the
Speaker 1: B team stuff. It's just unnecessary. I don't get it.
Speaker 1: Uh mentioned Big Zoo getting his contract quickly? Here Terrence
Speaker 1: Man next, and what do you think that number could be?
Speaker 2: Yeah, really interesting one with Terrence. You know. I think
Speaker 2: if you were to say, who's like the third most
Speaker 2: important player for the Clippers next year, obviously got Kawhi
Speaker 2: and James, right. I think that some folks might say,
Speaker 2: try to say Terrence before Zoo, and I think Zoo's
Speaker 2: consistency's a floor razer Defensively, I think Terrence because he's
Speaker 2: a wing, he's more versatile, he can do more with
Speaker 2: the ball in his hands. There's always felt like a
Speaker 2: little bit more breakout potential there right, But Zoo has
Speaker 2: clearly been the you know, become the better player of
Speaker 2: the two of them, although Terrence is still a good
Speaker 2: player and an important piece of this team. At the
Speaker 2: same time, you know, the market tends to be difficult
Speaker 2: for centers and versatile wings tend to get a little
Speaker 2: more love financially. I would think that you would probably
Speaker 2: you know, you always want to get a little bit
Speaker 2: of a better deal, right, So I think this neo
Speaker 2: extension came out at nineteen point five million average. I
Speaker 2: had said, you know, you'd love to have them at eighteen.
Speaker 2: Nineteen point five is solid. You'd always love if they
Speaker 2: sign him at eighteen, I would say, yeah, that's great, man,
Speaker 2: But you would have loved to get it for sixteen, right,
Speaker 2: So I don't know, Maybe maybe I think a little
Speaker 2: less for Terrence. It might be the same number, but
Speaker 2: could it also could easily be a situation where, you know,
Speaker 2: these guys are in positions with Paul George leaving that
Speaker 2: they could look they could really be eyeing breakout years
Speaker 2: and Terrence might think, you know, he's limited in terms
Speaker 2: of what he can get on an extension because of
Speaker 2: what his current salary is. There's there's math equations in there, right,
Speaker 2: if he hits free agency, there's no limit, and maybe
Speaker 2: he thinks that if he has a great year, I mean,
Speaker 2: if Terrence Man has a breakout year this season as
Speaker 2: a starting two guard for the Clippers, you look at
Speaker 2: the money that guys are getting to be solid starters
Speaker 2: in the NBA right now, right, Like, what was that
Speaker 2: If you can remember, what was that KCP contract this summer,
Speaker 2: it's over.
Speaker 1: Twenty it's over Orlando. Yea, yeah, it was a big
Speaker 1: time a shorter deal but high annual return.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's a guy who's you know, who's older
Speaker 2: than Terrence Man as well, but also six years championship
Speaker 2: deigreg Yeah, so you know, I could easily see Terrence being,
Speaker 2: you know, being younger than KCP going into next summer
Speaker 2: thinking if he has a really good season, he could
Speaker 2: be a twenty million plus guy. And now up to
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to say Terrence is as good as Casey.
Speaker 2: He's not. He hasn't been in recent years. But he's
Speaker 2: younger and he could be kind of betting on himself
Speaker 2: and looking for that breakout season. So yeah, I mean,
Speaker 2: I think if a deal gets done, it will be
Speaker 2: in a very similar range to what we saw with Zoo,
Speaker 2: maybe around that eighteen low end, sixteen, high end twenty.
Speaker 2: But he also could look as a kind of bet
Speaker 2: on himself guy, and considering the inconsistency with his role
Speaker 2: for the Clippers over the last few years, and considering
Speaker 2: that they are very clearly angling to look to add
Speaker 2: a star free agent in the coming years, and that
Speaker 2: could result in Terrence, you know, going back to the
Speaker 2: bench on a reasonable contract. Twenty million dollars is not
Speaker 2: necessarily guaranteed starter money anymore in the NBA. The Clippers
Speaker 2: have a twenty million guy coming off the bench right
Speaker 2: now at Norman Powell, and that's before the cap increases
Speaker 2: another thirty million dollars. So yeah, I mean, he could
Speaker 2: really look at a bet on himself look for somewhere
Speaker 2: where the money's a little better, where the role is
Speaker 2: a little more guaranteed. I'm not totally I'm not totally sure,
Speaker 2: but they do have there's no deadline for these talks,
Speaker 2: so all the way until late June, right before free
Speaker 2: agency opens, they can keep talking. Patients, you know, can
Speaker 2: be prudent, and I I wouldn't necessarily say, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm expecting to see a Terence number come in in
Speaker 2: the next week or so. That's not you know, Intel sources,
Speaker 2: none of that. Just you know, I'm not holding my.
Speaker 1: Breath, okay, And you know that rod In Derreck Jones Junior.
Speaker 1: So it's interesting to see the playing time factor to
Speaker 1: be able to put up a breakout season could be
Speaker 1: a little bit out of his control, of course, and
Speaker 1: his minutes have been walking in all over the places
Speaker 1: and his role has been all over the place.
Speaker 2: So well, I think it's in I think it's in
Speaker 2: his control. But he's there's competition for wing minutes. He
Speaker 2: has to win that competition, right.
Speaker 1: Put up those threes. He's got to start.
Speaker 2: He's got to get out there. And you know, if
Speaker 2: the they're going to start James Terrence, Derek Kawhi Zoo,
Speaker 2: they got to right. And if the offense in that
Speaker 2: unit isn't good enough, it's very likely that that norm
Speaker 2: for Terrence is the switch and Derek Jones Junior is
Speaker 2: not going to do anything with the ball in his
Speaker 2: hands on offense. He's gonna cut. He's going to be
Speaker 2: a you know, you hope for average three point shooters
Speaker 2: standing in the corner. Terrence is going to have to
Speaker 2: be the number three, like the secondary pick and roll playmaker.
Speaker 2: He's going to have to take above the break threes.
Speaker 2: He's going to have to create with the ball in
Speaker 2: his hands, you know, as that complimentary scoring wing. He
Speaker 2: can't just be the I stand in the corner and
Speaker 2: guard the other team's best player. Guy that's Derek. Now,
Speaker 2: Terrence has to be a little more of a utility
Speaker 2: all around creative win and if he does that well enough,
Speaker 2: he'll keep that starting job. And if he doesn't, ty
Speaker 2: is going to be forced to adjust. And if Tye
Speaker 2: is forced to adjust, Now you enter a bench climate
Speaker 2: with a mere Coffee who we know is no slouch,
Speaker 2: with Chris Dunn, who's coming in in a very similar
Speaker 2: point of attack, defense ball handler mold who knows what
Speaker 2: the situation is going to be with Kevin Porter Junior
Speaker 2: as a wing depth option and what he can do
Speaker 2: as a scorer. But his efficiency struggles, the potential suspension,
Speaker 2: the likelihood that he does know something else stupid or
Speaker 2: illegal that costs him the opportunity to play in the NBA.
Speaker 2: So there's a lot of variables there, but you know,
Speaker 2: nothing's guaranteed for Terrence, but the opportunity to earn it
Speaker 2: will be there.
Speaker 1: A couple more for you here, Lucas. I appreciate your time,
Speaker 1: of course, hopefully your Labor Day weekend.
Speaker 2: Listen to.
Speaker 1: Schedule out.
Speaker 2: Oh we got the love of the gym the pod
Speaker 2: right after this man.
Speaker 1: All right, So as you mentioned it, and I think
Speaker 1: people's ears perked up when you said it, the Clippers
Speaker 1: long term plan. You alluded to it of angling for
Speaker 1: another star because you know, the salary cap, the restrictions
Speaker 1: them being under the first apron in this case. You
Speaker 1: were the first to point that out as soon as
Speaker 1: they gave that non taxpayer mid level exception to Derek
Speaker 1: Jones Junior. Just how favorable a position are they in
Speaker 1: considering they lost Paul George, how they retooled in where
Speaker 1: the salary structure is headed the next couple of years
Speaker 1: for them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean this is where the Zoo and Terrence
Speaker 2: extensions become interesting too, because they were in a situation
Speaker 2: where they you know, they gave James Harden a short
Speaker 2: term contract, and so they were in a situation where
Speaker 2: in that twenty twenty six offseason, it was Kawhi and
Speaker 2: a lot of flexibility, and now they are starting in
Speaker 2: a way that I think, you know, like I said,
Speaker 2: the cap is going to be in the last year
Speaker 2: of this extension, the cap is going to be like
Speaker 2: one hundred and eighty seven million dollars. Having a starting
Speaker 2: center for twenty million is totally that's not going to
Speaker 2: impede you from doing other things you need to do.
Speaker 1: What was it now in the one forties?
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, I don't. I don't have it pulled up
Speaker 2: in front of you. But it's it's going to raise
Speaker 2: ten percent every year, basically is the the way that
Speaker 2: it is going to go up. With the new media
Speaker 2: right steal, they've to avoid another Kevin Durant war years
Speaker 2: big cap spike. Every team has max space situation. They
Speaker 2: they're making it so that it can only increase, it
Speaker 2: can only increase ten percent each year. But with the
Speaker 2: new media rights deal, it will increase that ten percent.
Speaker 2: So it's a I just check, it's one hundred and
Speaker 2: four threwo point.
Speaker 1: Five this year and the cap and my rent going
Speaker 1: up ten percent every year, shaking hands.
Speaker 2: Ten percent of year, yeah, yeah, uh so, so yeah,
Speaker 2: it's uh, there'll be in a situation where that that
Speaker 2: future of Hey, it's twenty twenty six. We've got Kawhi
Speaker 2: Leonard and Mac space. Let's see what we can do.
Speaker 2: We're still quite a bit of ways from that. Two
Speaker 2: full years, two full seasons of basketball. How does Kawhi
Speaker 2: Leonard age decline happen in those two years? How does
Speaker 2: James Harden's age decline happen in those two years?
Speaker 1: What it could be one year for James?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it could be right, What does Kawhi's health look like?
Speaker 2: Is coming to play with a team that is paying
Speaker 2: Kawhi Leonard fifty million dollars going to be attractive to
Speaker 2: other star players in twenty twenty six or is it
Speaker 2: going to be you know, a twilight for a guy
Speaker 2: who can't run anymore? Right? And are they going to
Speaker 2: make Keeping that room open for two years requires making
Speaker 2: a lot of really tough decisions and not maximizing your
Speaker 2: current talent. So like extending Zoo works against the twenty
Speaker 2: twenty six plan, but you know you can, you can
Speaker 2: try to balance it. You can try to juggle those
Speaker 2: two competing priorities. But like Norman Powell, you know, Norman
Speaker 2: Powell is a talented player who helps this Clippers team,
Speaker 2: especially in a post Paul George world, He's going to
Speaker 2: be at a point where do you extend him, do
Speaker 2: you let him walk? Do you trade him and try
Speaker 2: to recoup some value? And you know, keeping him means
Speaker 2: sacrificing some of that twenty twenty six flexibility. And if
Speaker 2: you go down the line and you make the well,
Speaker 2: we're going to try to keep this guy, call on everyone.
Speaker 2: You don't have max space in twenty twenty six anymore.
Speaker 2: But are you willing to let James Harden and Norman
Speaker 2: Powell and Terrence man all walk and try to roll
Speaker 2: out a Kawhi Leonard team that doesn't have those guys
Speaker 2: around him? If it means that the next year you
Speaker 2: have a chance at getting someone, and then will someone
Speaker 2: even wants to come? So it's very still very speculative.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of decisions that need to be made
Speaker 2: in the next twenty four months that will determine if
Speaker 2: that possibility stays open or not. But I do think
Speaker 2: it is sort of the short term reaction to losing
Speaker 2: a player like Paul George is Okay, well, where's our
Speaker 2: next opportunity for a pivot? And that next opportunity for
Speaker 2: a pivot in terms of adding an all star type
Speaker 2: player is two years down.
Speaker 1: The road, and the two guys that could be available
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty six would be Luka Dacic and Shay Gilgess.
Speaker 1: Alexander am I going light Year's brain if I feel
Speaker 1: like it's actually better for Okac to win a championship
Speaker 1: because that would give SG eight the out to be
Speaker 1: able to leave them. Yes, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I mean sure, you know, maybe right, or he's.
Speaker 1: A legacy player and they're still set up and they
Speaker 1: have all these picks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, maybe.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah. Last one for you your role
Speaker 1: with the two one three Empire, the love of the
Speaker 1: jam of the podcast and how this all came about,
Speaker 1: and just because I've been talking a lot about the
Speaker 1: multimedia landscape and how things are changing and blogs versus
Speaker 1: blogs and vodcasts and now I'm doing a YouTube and
Speaker 1: where everything's going in my business with radio. I'd just
Speaker 1: be interested to get your thoughts on you know, where
Speaker 1: two one three is headed, why it started, how you
Speaker 1: have to evolve or die, and how you have to
Speaker 1: adapt and just this new media world.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's a great question. I mean, we could
Speaker 2: do we could do a whole hour on this, and
Speaker 2: you know, I've been I've been doing this. I've been
Speaker 2: in this sphere for a little while now and have
Speaker 2: some thoughts on trends and trajectories and histories. But really,
Speaker 2: you know, we were in a situation, right, folks. I'm
Speaker 2: sure a lot of folks know the history, but Robert
Speaker 2: Flahm and I were with esp Nation doing the Clippers
Speaker 2: blog over there for a long time, and there was
Speaker 2: some legal stuff with how independent contractor arrangements could work
Speaker 2: in the stand at California and blah blah blah, and
Speaker 2: eSPI Nation made the choice to just kind of cut
Speaker 2: loose a large portion of their blogs to avoid you know,
Speaker 2: paying folks for their work, and Rob and I, you know,
Speaker 2: we decided we just wanted to keep doing it. So
Speaker 2: we made two and three hoops, and really our mission
Speaker 2: statement or our sort of guiding principle has just been,
Speaker 2: you know, we want to have content for Clippers fans,
Speaker 2: and I think both growing up in La as Clippers fans,
Speaker 2: even though neither of us live in La anymore. We
Speaker 2: we went through those ups and downs that that folks
Speaker 2: listening to this, you know will relate to, or maybe
Speaker 2: older fans will relate to. It's been sort of a
Speaker 2: golden decade if you if you joined the fan base
Speaker 2: since then. But you know, are we going to have
Speaker 2: a beat writer at the La Times, right, which we're
Speaker 2: right back in that boat now where the La Times
Speaker 2: has really not, you know, has decided not to cover
Speaker 2: the Clippers despite having a phenomenal, phenomenal writer there, and
Speaker 2: Andrew Andrew. Yeah, yeah, we we love Andrew. We've had him,
Speaker 2: had him on too, So, you know, wanting that space
Speaker 2: where there's going to be coverage, but it's you know,
Speaker 2: and there's there's a place for everyone in this landscape, right.
Speaker 2: So I'm not saying I'm not trying to say that
Speaker 2: anyone who does things differently than how we do things
Speaker 2: is wrong or bad. But what the space that we
Speaker 2: want is. It's Clipper driven, it's Clippers fans, but it
Speaker 2: is still more analytical. You don't hear us cheering a lot, right,
Speaker 2: we're homers.
Speaker 1: In a sense, but I hear Rob booing a lot.
Speaker 2: Actually yeah, sometimes you hear me booing Rob while he's speaking, right,
Speaker 2: But but that's us, that's that's the way that we
Speaker 2: you know, are our We've been friends for over a decade.
Speaker 2: That's the way that our our friendship is. That's our
Speaker 2: the blend of our personalities and the way that we
Speaker 2: see the game and the way that the way that
Speaker 2: we relate to this fandom of this team. And we
Speaker 2: wanted to just create a space because we felt like,
Speaker 2: you know, the previous the previous site that we had
Speaker 2: was really the place where that existed for Clippers fans.
Speaker 2: And you know, if folks are like, we don't want
Speaker 2: to hear dats, We don't want to hear talk about
Speaker 2: rotation and who should be playing over who, and we
Speaker 2: just we want to be fans. And you know, there's
Speaker 2: that's okay, right, It's okay for folks to connect the
Speaker 2: game differently, but we wanted to make.
Speaker 1: Sure get them.
Speaker 2: We wanted to make sure that there was a space
Speaker 2: for you know, for us to do our thing and
Speaker 2: for folks who who have that same connection and kind
Speaker 2: of orientation towards appreciating the team and the game uh
Speaker 2: to do that as well. And I think that, you know,
Speaker 2: in that sense, that was really what motivated me to
Speaker 2: you know, connect you with Chuck and Will and try
Speaker 2: to make sure that that was something that could happen,
Speaker 2: you know, just from a like an incubator perspective, right, like,
Speaker 2: if there's a way that that we can help foster
Speaker 2: and facilitate the expanse expansion of quality spaces for Clippers
Speaker 2: fans to connect online, to get more content about their team,
Speaker 2: to fuel that fandom, because that's what has been such
Speaker 2: a passion for Robin I. Right. So yeah, I mean
Speaker 2: I don't know if that fully addresses your question, but
Speaker 2: that's just sort of like where we came from and
Speaker 2: what we do and why we do it. And I
Speaker 2: think that other folks out there are doing things differently
Speaker 2: than we do it, and that's great. I really think
Speaker 2: that a broader and more diverse Clipper sphere of digital
Speaker 2: content is best for fans. And you know, I'm both
Speaker 2: a Clippers fan, which means it's great for me to
Speaker 2: have all this great content and diverse voices out there,
Speaker 2: and I am someone who's spent a lot of time
Speaker 2: in labor trying to serve Clippers fans, and so seeing
Speaker 2: seeing the quality and quantity that is available now, you know,
Speaker 2: really compared to ten years ago or fifteen years ago,
Speaker 2: you know, I think it's a cool moment to be
Speaker 2: a Clippers fan. Sometimes someone comes in and says, hey,
Speaker 2: I'm looking for a Clippers podcast, you know, and it's
Speaker 2: like heir to fifteen years ago. Where can you look
Speaker 2: for to get your like Clippers fix? Right, There's so
Speaker 2: many options now to find someone who you connect to
Speaker 2: and enjoy them. So, yeah, well you do great work.
Speaker 1: I'm proud to be a part of it. Now with
Speaker 1: two on three hoops, does the name have to change
Speaker 1: with Paul, George and Phil.
Speaker 2: Well, you know the idea with two and three hoops,
Speaker 2: And it was actually a longtime friend and reader Adam
Speaker 2: Horowitz who was the first to pitch two and three
Speaker 2: Hoops to us. When we were thinking about names, the
Speaker 2: thinking was, yes, right now you've got the two one
Speaker 2: three era with Paul and Kwhi, but the intuitdome is
Speaker 2: in the two one three you know, zip code area code.
Speaker 2: And so that was the thinking at the time, was
Speaker 2: that the name would age well beyond that current pairing
Speaker 2: of stars. But the way that then U two one
Speaker 2: three really like entered the I feel like at that
Speaker 2: moment in time, I'm trying to think back to, you know,
Speaker 2: like December twenty nineteen when we were really working on
Speaker 2: getting ready to launch this. I feel like people weren't
Speaker 2: really saying two one three yet to talk about like
Speaker 2: Paul and Kui, the two one three era people, you know,
Speaker 2: it was so early into it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they had the one funnel up or doctor. I
Speaker 1: could just make sure to put the jerseys next to
Speaker 1: each other. But outside of.
Speaker 2: That, yeah, I mean, I could be I could be
Speaker 2: totally wrong. I could be totally misremembering. Maybe people were
Speaker 2: saying that from day one, but I'm just thinking at
Speaker 2: the time, we weren't necessarily immediately drawn to it. The
Speaker 2: idea was that staying power with the location of the
Speaker 2: new arena would would But now it's become such a
Speaker 2: sinat like two one three has really become synonymous with
Speaker 2: Paul and Kui. So I don't know. I'm I'm open
Speaker 2: minded about it, I would say, but we haven't we were,
Speaker 2: We're not actively in the process of rebranding. There's a
Speaker 2: lot of you know, we have like all everything is official, right,
Speaker 2: and so there's a lot of paperwork that we would
Speaker 2: have to do if we were to decide to go
Speaker 2: in a different direction.
Speaker 1: You like the dude in Big Lebowski. You know various paperwork,
Speaker 1: business papers.
Speaker 2: I got stacks here of all the two. And I
Speaker 2: did not imagine when I when I started putting up
Speaker 2: little blog posts about the Clippers in twenty eleven, I
Speaker 2: did not imagine that it would end with me doing
Speaker 2: learning how to do my own small business taxes. But
Speaker 2: here we are.
Speaker 1: Well, you're in luck because I think turbo tax has
Speaker 1: something to do with into it, Dome, I think, yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean it's a great opportunity for a little spot.
Speaker 2: I mean, call me, guys, call me.
Speaker 1: He is Lucas hand, don't call him han. I always
Speaker 1: have to remind myself of that all the time, owner
Speaker 1: proprietor of two to one three hoops for now. Hey,
Speaker 1: the Clippers never changed their name. Why does two and
Speaker 1: three hoops have to? It just tells you they've been
Speaker 1: doing it from that point. There's a history there. They
Speaker 1: have a long established run of great Clippers coverage. Lucas,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for doing this. It was overdue,
Speaker 1: as I mentioned earlier, but I think we made up
Speaker 1: for some lost time here on Clippers stuff. It was
Speaker 1: great to have you on. I love all your opinions
Speaker 1: and analysis. You know, I'm a huge fan, so Adam
Speaker 1: always a pleasure man.
Speaker 2: Great. It's been great working with you, great talking with
Speaker 2: you today, and like I said, this has been a
Speaker 2: really great series. I hope that that Clippers fans and
Speaker 2: your listeners know, you know, the other other fan bases
Speaker 2: are not getting this type of all the voices brought
Speaker 2: together on on one channel over the summer type of work.
Speaker 2: And it is. Having been do this for every decade,
Speaker 2: I know that these summer series are grind and it's
Speaker 2: putting in the Adam is putting in the grind for you, guys.
Speaker 2: I have not been putting in the grind this August,
Speaker 2: so appreciate Adam for what he's doing for you.
Speaker 1: I'm just hanging out and having great guests on. Speaking
Speaker 1: of tomorrow, we have Jack Cogan coming on at Jack
Speaker 1: clips la is where you might know him from X
Speaker 1: He's coming on. He's an ESPN reporter and he's been
Speaker 1: a longtime Clippers fan, so we'll have him on and
Speaker 1: maybe a little air tomorrow night. Maybe it'll air on
Speaker 1: Tuesday Wednesday. I teased out last week and then didn't
Speaker 1: deliver under sell over deliver, I keep forgetting I didn't
Speaker 1: have that guest on Friday, that super secret special guest.
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna jens it even further now and give
Speaker 1: out the guy's name because he's supposed to come on
Speaker 1: on Wednesday. If he doesn't, it's all good, because he's
Speaker 1: a very busy man. It'll happen at some point. But
Speaker 1: the reason I'm telling you now is if you have
Speaker 1: questions for Paul Sheer, comedian and super fan of the Clippers.
Speaker 1: Paul Sheer will be joining me on Wednesday. I have
Speaker 1: a ton of questions for him. But if you guys
Speaker 1: want to get some in, put it in the comments
Speaker 1: section below, subscribe and save. I'm really excited for that.
Speaker 1: And then I have some further news. I'm going on
Speaker 1: assignment for an interview coming up in a couple of
Speaker 1: weeks here, but I'm going to tease that out a
Speaker 1: little bit further. Anyways, a lot happening here on Clippers Talk.
Speaker 1: For Lucas Hand, don't call on I'm out of miles line.
Speaker 1: This has been another edition of Clippers Talk. We'll talk
Speaker 1: to you tomorrow.